#Zarus is too weak

73 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

brazen pine
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Zarus can’t keep up with the other offlaners like Grux, Greystone, etc. he doesn’t have the health to survive early game witch means the enemy can just go for damage while your stuck trying to stay alive and they just keep investing in more damage. I’ve tried the many of builds and “counter builds” from other comments but against an equal skill player Zarus just simply can hold his own ground. He needs some small buffs to even the playing field.

ruby lily
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you need to use your rmb (spear) to poke the enemy down before trying to engage. he is the best offlaner at poking enemies, so you play around that and the character feels a lot better. all characters have very similar base stats, so that shouldnt affect it too much and its just how you play the match up

stable pewter
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yea his poke is great, cause he doesnt have the sustain grux or greystone have

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also great for securing kill econemy

fallen widget
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Zarus is not too weak. he didnt have his early game hit for no reason.

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trying watch replays of some GM players using him

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watch how they play the lane.

brazen pine
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Update, yes I know how to “poke” the enemy before engaging but they can either out heal it early game or you need to get to close to poke and they can use there pull/stun abilities it out dps you in a heart beat. And I’m not saying this in light of his recent change, I think the change is ok he’s just weaker in other standards

fallen widget
# brazen pine Update, yes I know how to “poke” the enemy before engaging but they can either o...

His early game is extremely strong, hence the shift from early game damage to late (albeit, miniscule)
Controlling the wave very intentionally and using his kit the bully and zone people out is what he excells at
but ultimately he does require snowballing and he can't be the primary tank on a team usually.

He is very strong when initiating for pick offs, objective control, etc, but you don't want to use him to start a teamfight (unless you're getting a muriel ult on top of you to combo with your ult)

He is very squishy, but his damage output is intense, and his teamfight is intense.

He's very synergistic with so many good team fighters.

You'll often see me on this discord complaining about lack of kit depth. While Zarus kit is simple, its decent enough, and lends itself well to a lot of depth via strategy, decision making, and window of oppertunity. So its fine to be simple, mechanically speaking, IMO.

Anyways TL;DR if you understand what hes good at you just need to understand where he fits in team identity

brazen pine
# fallen widget His early game is extremely strong, hence the shift from early game damage to la...

Only against people who don’t know what there doing he’s good but so is everyone else. There’s a reason he’s one of the lowest picked hero’s and and 48% win chance. His kit is good in theory until you realize that almost everyone has a skill to close the distance then your toast cause he’s not a damage dealer so he can out dps and he’s not a tank so he can’t take punishment. They need to buff him in someway or somehow to make him a more viable pick than always someone else

fallen widget
# brazen pine Only against people who don’t know what there doing he’s good but so is everyone...

I dont think theres anything wrong with leaving certain characters more so viable at high levels of play.
Hes very similar to kwang. Their existence alone (regardless of how strong) really alters the meta. With a zarus you can play for a gadget. You would never usually play for your gadget to be a carry for the team, yet zarus existing, even if he was relatively weak, makes gadget insanely powerful

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Kwang can make it so you can't flash out of fey ult

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Just dont forget team synergy is a huge factor when balancing mobas at the top end of play

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I wouldnt argue you have the easiest time carrying solo que with him. Never would try to argue that

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I'm just saying he is a valuable asset to a team comp, and if made any stronger... I shiver at the thought

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Its the same situation as odin in smite

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They had to make odin underpowered af until they figured out how to create a counter for his ult.

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And even then

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People just abused vulcan odin cage or AOE damage Mage + Odin for like a year after repeated odin nerfs

brazen pine
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That’s only “one play” your not gonna stick with your midlaner or carry when your offlane. Also I disagree with you on the “some characters should be picked for higher play”

fallen widget
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I mean, look at every moba (including ours) that exists

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noobs think some characters are terrible

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but then at highest level of play they are OP

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and vice versa

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its very normal..

brazen pine
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And like I said everything sounds good in theory and sure you can have some good plays “I had my fair share” but it’s what your doing most of the time and not just those one or to power plays with your team

fallen widget
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I really just think you want your favorite character to be top of the meta

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when hes already a very good solo laner as is.

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His role is just different and he belongs on a team comp to fulfil a certain role.

brazen pine
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It’s not about that

fallen widget
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You think zarus is too weak. But he isn't. Its just a fact that he is not too weak.

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So I'm trying my best to explain to you different approaches of thought, to no avail. So we can just agree to disagree on this one.

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I both am and am not trying to tell you you're wrong. I think there's just very different ways of looking at the game in different settings, and there are settings that the game is played where the character is absolutely viable and does well.
If you tip the scales too far in the positive, the environment that im referring to will see him be overly dominant

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Zarus_Cute Hopefully we can at least agree.. this emoji is very cute Zarus_Cute

brazen pine
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Hang on I’ll argue with you in a second in a game right now

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It’s not so much if he’s weak, it’s that he’s weaker than others all you did was explain very rare situations and is true for every character like that gadget one. When will that happen? Never! Because there are way better picks than that because he’s so much weaker than kwang grux greystone fwng mao shinbi khaimera

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And don’t try to take some “moral high ground” when all you did was accuse me of being a “noob” and “you just want your favorite character” and all that when in reality, it’s you that’s not listening to me

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And like I keep saying if he’s so strong then why is his pick rate so low and win rate low as well?

fallen widget
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Countess is an inverse example. Countess is not that great. Shes solid, but she is not nearly as strong in organized play because shes so exploitable
Yet you can run a pub lobby with her really hard up until about masters

Then if your lobbies start tightening up, its a lot harder to pubstomp.

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Yet her win rate is very high?

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People think shes piss broken?

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But in all reality shes extremely exploitable

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People just aren't doing it.

ruby lily
fallen widget
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Btw, @brazen pine his pick rate isn't low. its very middle of the road and his winrate is less than 2% from 50% ... so I really think even your supporting evidence is incorrect.

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Sev has a ~46% win rate an a ~14% pick rate, but if you wanna argue sev is bad, you're just asinine

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It doesn't tell the full story

whole siren
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Bro just wants his main buffed💀

hollow olive
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I think zarus would be in a good spot if they would fix his stun consistency.

Too often do you get the flash and gong noise of making contact with an enemy hero, for it to just not stun at all

remote inlet
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In the right hands he is incredibly strong. You just gotta learn how to trade with him early game. He is my 2nd main and I gotta say it's all in your hands

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If you get ahead... You're basically unstoppable

south echo
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The scaling build seems like the best maybe? Ortus stacks with ult stacks can kinda go crazy

fallen widget
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Crest is almost always, Iceskorn Talons
If you're vs a matchup who has low kill potential vs you (typically tanks)
Mutilator First, you just out sustain their already minimal damage trades
Augmentation Second

Vs matchups who match your kill potential (typically bruisers / assassins)
Augmentation first, so your burst matches theirs, and because of your low cooldowns you can go into a slightly extended trade and get 2-3 procs of Aug passive, which will typically result in your winning the trade, especially if you make good use of your passive
Berserkers Axe second

Then from these points follow this counter build prio order

Item that counters your laner
Item that counters the opposing damage type to your laner
Item that counters the highest damage threat on the enemy team

red lintel
fallen widget
red lintel
fallen widget
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theres a exact science to its "certainty"

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but I don't remember the exact amount of games

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there is some weird stuff going on right now as the player base booms

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where people are getting very inflated by stomping people who have far less concept of the game than they

red lintel
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I see. I'm new to Predecessor. Less than a month in. I see this has been going for awhile but I was playing another Paragon spin off on ps5 til it got canceled and then I seen an ad that this was up. I played Paragon since the alpha launch though. So far I'm liking Predecessor. Closest Paragon clone I've seen yet.

fallen widget
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I also think it'll very likely be a success

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even compared to paragon

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theres a few things they need to make it undeniably better than paragon

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and perhaps with a successful next year or two, they could have the funding to take these steps into consideration

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I mostly mean deep physics polish

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Visual reworks and upgrades

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Until then, the gameplay upgrades are achievable. It mostly depends on Hero kit designs (decent skill floor, high skill ceiling needed for long term depth) the map reworks many are anticipating (refining macro gameplay)

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everything else is just candy

red lintel