or..??
Meh epic shield Meh epic shield Oh no, I was wasteful of my shield, it is my fault I lost it!
😌🛡️ - - - - - - - - 😌🛡️ - - - - - - - - - - 😨 🛡️ ⚔️
#Team Comtress 2 Megathread - It's finally here
round coyote
Making the user not have to constantly worry about a timer but rather have it lost themself is a much, much funner interaction to have.
.
Have you ever played one of those old Flash cooking games.?
Wait nevermind.
.
Regardless testing should be done.
charred shadow
ok but this is already how medic works
overheal is on a timer
vacc bubbles are on a timer
round coyote
😮💨
This is a uniquely different medigun.
charred shadow
yes and its still trying to keep the identity of both medic and the vacc
round coyote
The Vaccinator's identity is to block damage.
My idea suits it more, espcally with the "max cap of 4".
round coyote
Both fit on identity, this isn't an "identity" issue.
But rather a
"the same issue of the dalokas bar" issue and
a
"Shield doesn't feel anywhere near as cool as it would've if it didn't drain"
For both the medic and the patient.
charred shadow
dalokohs bar's issue isnt that its temporary tho
round coyote
dalokohs bar's issue isnt that its temporary tho
You don't use it much do you..?
If at all.
charred shadow
its my most used lunchbox brother
round coyote
Do you play much Heavy?
charred shadow
2nd most played after demo
charred shadow
I have 14k hours in this game
round coyote
o-o
charred shadow
well, 13.8k
round coyote
Still o-o
round coyote
well, 13.8k
Regardless...
If the +50 health was passive..
It would feel a lot better.
Like how the Battalon's backup's health is passive.
charred shadow
true if direct hit had no splash penalty it would feel much better to
round coyote
Bruh
charred shadow
dalokohs problem is that it still has base sandwich speed, depsite the much lower healing and need to redeploy it for the hp boost
round coyote
I'm talking about interatcions...
The "direct hit" feels good because it has lower splash radius.
charred shadow
no it feels good because it chunks every class in the game lol
round coyote
dalokohs problem is that it still has base sandwich speed, depsite the much lowe...
Or just make it passive and then that solves the issue anyways?
Constantly eating a chocolate bar to recive 50 hp is annoying and slow.
charred shadow
Or just make it passive and then that solves the issue anyways?
no because heavies just permanantly having +50hp is dumb and annoying, the deploy and eating animation at least means he sometimes has to give some down time in combat
round coyote
no because heavies just permanantly having +50hp is dumb and annoying, the deplo...
"dumb and annoying"
Then how is the Battalon's back up okay?
charred shadow
ur not gonna believe this
round coyote
The trade is 50 max health for a horrible healing lunchbox item.
charred shadow
but I think the banner passives are dumb to 
round coyote
but I think the banner passives are dumb to <:steamhappey:1101334446386446349>
😮💨 Oh you're one of those people..
"All passive resistances should be removed".
"All resistances should be +5% maximum"
(Hyperbole)
charred shadow
no, actually I think its because the backup and conch are already some of soldiers best secondaries and they didnt need the buff
round coyote
no, actually I think its because the backup and conch are already some of soldie...
Gunboats..?
charred shadow
especially the conch which already had the benefit of requiring less rage to build
"some of"
round coyote
Without the passive upsides, no one would use them...
charred shadow
round coyote
Especally the Backup.
Regardless this is off topic.
We are talking about the Vaccinator.
charred shadow
yeah man people use the backup solely for the +20hp and not the complete immunity to crit damage and resistance to all damage types
round coyote
yeah man people use the backup solely for the +20hp and not the complete immunit...
You are twisting my words.
I'm here for a serious discussion.
Not for "tactical antics".
charred shadow
bro you literally just said if the backup didnt have the 20hp nobody would use it
shell temple
can we stop it here, its clearly not an equal discussion that will end
round coyote
This is the appeal of this new medigun over other mediguns...
Everyone with other medigun attaches themselves to the medic.
With this new vaccinator (if the shields didn't go away by themselves), goes to the medic, gets a charge and then goes and does their own thing, where as the medic has a pocket as well.
This is a brand new play style.
It's awesome and epic.
shell temple
yes but 50 dmg goes away in one shot on most shit
60 seconds is a long time
it wont affect anything
except for stacking
round coyote
But if you do have the shield drain...
People will... Still play much much closer to the medic...
round coyote
except for stacking
It changes everything...
shell temple
it wont decay
its just 50 shield
and then it gets removed entirely after 60 seconds
if it hasnt already been consumed
round coyote
I'm.. Talking about it going away after 60 seconds...
The "decay" word was wrong sorry.
shell temple
60 seconds is more than enough to go anywhere on any map
charred shadow
60 seconds is around how long it takes to build an entire stock uber
thats a long time in terms of TF2
round coyote
60 seconds is more than enough to go anywhere on any map
😮💨
At the end of the day, it is you're change. But I'm telling you.
This will half ruin the item's appeal and upside.
Stacking can easily be fixed.
Well I suggest another change.
How about the first shield never disappears.
But stacked shields go away after 60 seconds.
raw orchid
40 seconds if you build perfectly.
round coyote
60 seconds is more than enough to go anywhere on any map
Therefore, keeping the appeal I mentioned, but for "stacking" where it would be an issue, then you're solution takes play.
Without removing the appeal of getting a shield and going away from the medic.
Thus keeping it interesting for stacking, and keeping it fun for people who just want one shield and going away.
🤔
charred shadow
you are basing so much of this new vacc on stuff in your head rather than actually trying it out
round coyote
you are basing so much of this new vacc on stuff in your head rather than actual...
We are all literally doing that same thing.
round coyote
in any combat
Not.. Really..?
People would instead try keeping that shield active.
The main person the drain would harm is Spy.
charred shadow
We are all literally doing that same thing.
charred shadow
you wanted to keep arguing over imaginary scenarios
round coyote
If Spy got a shield from a Vaccinator shield, he'd try holding on to it.
Often lasting more than 60 seconds..
round coyote
you wanted to keep arguing over imaginary scenarios
Honestly that is fair.
round coyote
It should be tested with and without a drain I think...
shell temple
sure im fine with that
round coyote
then perhaps ill do medic
I can atleast ask if you test it without the drain.. Right?
^-^
Thanks
charred shadow
coms I might send some potato missions to you tomorrow night or wed if you wanna do some mvm play tests
shell temple
yeah we can do mvm
but i need a day or two if you need anything custom
or changes
round coyote
sure im fine with that
Who gets to test these changes.?
Is it possible if I could as well.?
clever creekBOT
shell temple
anyone who joins
round coyote
🤔 How do I join..?
charred shadow
dont need changes atm, just figured it would be fun to see how mvm plays on comtress without having to play broken parts for the 500th time
chilly nova
🤔 How do I join..?
open tc2 and join from the server browser
shell temple
we can do mvm tonight then
round coyote
Tc2..?
shell temple
would be a nice break from me needing to patch the game every day
clever creekBOT
shell temple
typical colours 2
delicate schooner
would be a nice break from me needing to patch the game every day
Are you hoping most of your changes get into standard TF2?
clever creekBOT
charred shadow
one of our halloween potato maps, memorial had some annoying problems with the terrain eating explosions on half the map
shell temple
Are you hoping most of your changes get into standard TF2?
no
delicate schooner
🤔
delicate schooner
what about the spring cleaning update making it into TF2
charred shadow
so most teams just went heavy and phlog stacks
clever creekBOT
shell temple
the bug fixes sure
chilly nova
after i sneak in some extra steamids
shell temple
what about the spring cleaning update making it into TF2
yeah
but not letranger shooting while cloaked
do NOT add that to tf2
okay maybe do
round coyote
Of course not silly April Fools style changes.
shell temple
but only if i get control to push daily balance updates
shell temple
Of course not silly April Fools style changes.
its actually not that bad
charred shadow
okay maybe do
only works with cloak n dagger 
shell temple
its just really funny
round coyote
its actually not that bad
Wait really..?
Well maybe add that to the enforcer instead because that gun needs a buff and the Letranger is already meta for Spy.
shell temple
gun spy is the only way we make spy viable
round coyote
No no, I have a funnier idea.
shell temple
and make backstabs a kill of opportunity
charred shadow
when I was making overclocks for potato, I gave enforcer minicrits from behind
shell temple
rather than necessary
round coyote
Amba- 😅
chilly nova
let spy teamkill so he can better blend in
shell temple
Well maybe add that to the enforcer instead because that gun needs a buff and th...
enforcer can do a 150 headshot, it doesnt need buffs
shell temple
yeah all revolvers can headshot
round coyote
That's awesome!
shell temple
except the letranger
harsh hemlock
let spy teamkill so he can better blend in
enable friendly fire by default, it will fix spy checking 
shell temple
keep in mind
round coyote
yeah all revolvers can headshot
With crits or minicrits?
chilly nova
true
shell temple
those changes arent in rn
only were done last night
as part of the playtest
because we be testing inhere
wheat herald
can you make the letranger do 200 bodyshot and 0 headshot
round coyote
In my balance document, I did minicrits.
But you're sound like crits.
round coyote
and make backstabs a kill of opportunity
Huh, that is an interesting take.
It's a cool one.
round coyote
amby is always perfectly accurate
What buffs do the Ambassador get.?
round coyote
That is a needed buff lol.
charred shadow
fear
harsh hemlock
gun spy is the only way we make spy viable
so the dead ringer will be the supreme watch?
round coyote
so the dead ringer will be the supreme watch?
No..?
round coyote
It infact would buff the other watches more.
shell temple
i think dead ringer needs to lose its resistances on death
round coyote
Due to the backstab thing he mentioned.
Not to also mention that the deadringer is the worst
watch in vanilla.
Huh??
Bro...
harsh hemlock
i think dead ringer needs to lose its resistances on death
that will make it useless
i guess
but you can test it
shell temple
just give it 1 second invuln + cleanse + huge speed boost
shell temple
the other invis watches should have the resist
harsh hemlock
they have, but it is way lower
round coyote
just give it 1 second invuln + cleanse + huge speed boost
When you say "huge speed boost"
Do you mean it lasts longer or that it is a "hyper speed boost"
As in it's even faster?
shell temple
nope no resist, youre already getting a death escape and resist a damage instance, shouldnt have resist
just enough to get out
yeah even faster
i think dead ringer is best when used as a revenge kill
delicate schooner
Do you believe the reason that spring cleaning update changes didn't get in is because it was from leaked source code?
shell temple
the speed helps with that more than the resist
resist just makes it a tank damage item
shell temple
Do you believe the reason that spring cleaning update changes didn't get in is b...
no because changes did get in
round coyote
i think dead ringer is best when used as a revenge kill
I agree here.
That is it's biggest use.
Especally if you make him able to attack after decloacking faster.
delicate schooner
no because changes did get in
Wait, it was included in vanilla TF2?
round coyote
It would help make it an aggressive watch.
delicate schooner
🤔
shell temple
Wait, it was included in vanilla TF2?
some
sour sedge
we can do mvm tonight then
MVM 
shell temple
done over the years
shell temple
Wait that was you?
idk
tight nexus
could anyone tell me how to prevent this?
It was supposed to be just 2 commits, idk why did it updated
chilly nova
rebasing your commits on top of the new tree and removing the old commits should do the trick: git rebase -i origin/tc2-mod and remove the commits manually after calling git fetch
tight nexus
ehhhhh
chilly nova
just use cvs 🙄
tranquil mirage
me when me when
chilly nova
?
chilly nova
ehhh it still works
eternal jungle
random but people say mercurial is easier and better than git
Mercurial is so fucking slow
I tried downloading the firefox repo via mercurial and it took like 24 hours
tranquil mirage
what
eternal jungle
Idk it took forever to sync it
tranquil mirage
this seems like a server problem or something, not the tool
eternal jungle
Firefox uses mercurial though so you have no choice
chilly nova
aren't they moving to git now
eternal jungle
Maybe idk this was a few years ago
sour sedge
I use JJ (written in rust)
chilly nova
return to project - backup v4 copy final (2)
eternal jungle
McomsVCS when
chilly nova
McomsVCS when
Version Comtrol(l) System
why does tf2 have to parse the item schema twice at load 😢
(yes yes i know it's cause it's loaded in server and client separately)
but still i hate
eternal jungle
ETA 5 years
round coyote
but then ficool told me not to because it was gonna be fixed in live
Is there a way to get a "ping" when testing goes up?
sour sedge
Theres a whole list of fixes/changes I'm waiting for to make it to live
round coyote
Like a discord role.
chilly nova
add yourself to the comtress role in #roles👥
sour sedge
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/pull/679
I first complained about this in August of 2024
chilly nova
hey when are you going to relea-
chilly nova
i need to have it
shell temple
im releasing c# vm for source
with full native filesystem access
(except for .cfg files)
(this fixes a critical security exploit)
chilly nova
mastercoms when a chromium developer gets hit by a car
clever creekBOT
sour sedge
My memory edit api is better
sour sedge
(Can't be a security vuln if its intentional!!)
chilly nova
lmao
tranquil mirage
chilly nova
repro:
`./a.out`
/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 ./a.out easy
thank you gnu developers 🙏
shell temple
does the sdk release mean tf2c has to revert the phong change
chilly nova
why would it
shell temple
oh right the shaders are in
chilly nova
does the sdk release mean that open fortress will be open source
shell temple
no why would it
chilly nova
chilly nova
so i can beat this joke into the ground
tight nexus
shell temple
@dusky sapphire @wheat herald open
shell temple
never forget
wheat herald
https://tenor.com/view/competitive-tf2-team-fortress-2-medic-open-gif-1263392983...
that me
shell temple
the open 1st tc2 upward playtest
wheat herald
is this true??
dusky sapphire
i did the very first open moment in tc2 yes
vernal hull
why is it even called open fortress
No idea
wheat herald
honestly a really bad name
dusky sapphire
why is it even called open fortress
just because its supposed to be open source
thats it
harsh hemlock
why is it even called open fortress
because it used to be open source
harsh hemlock
just because its supposed to be open source
not anymore :((
charred shadow
vivid crow
wheat herald
I feel like the issue template should have a checkbox that says "why is this a good idea?"
ruby cape
because i want to force people to not see the match hud 😡
and i know nothing about vscript
rip
eternal jungle
Is there any actual reason to build in steam sniper docker on linux
apart from convenience or whatever
chilly nova
because that's the runtime that the game is targeting
wheat herald
buy a new thinkpad for every environment you want
jaunty fractal
well.... fuck this shit....
now, gotta make fastapi app which game server would curl to
eternal jungle
Idk how all this steam runtime stuff works (not a linux user)
clever creekBOT
chilly nova
all steam games run under one of the steam runtimes on linux
because distro fragmentation
eternal jungle
And a runtime is like a minimal statically linked linux 'system' containing everything needed for the game?
or what is it
wheat herald
all steam games run under one of the steam runtimes on linux
i bet that's the only thing that makes game development bearable for linux
jaunty fractal
intresting fact, API is protected, when user is not logged in to the game, TF API will block the request
golden gust
Idk how all this steam runtime stuff works (not a linux user)
linux isn’t a real platform
the steam runtime (distro) is
chilly nova
And a runtime is like a minimal statically linked linux 'system' containing ever...
yeah, it's a "base" linux system that all games can target
eternal jungle
intresting fact, API is protected, when user is not logged in to the game, TF AP...
You mean the tickets get cancelled or something else?
chilly nova
and that way they know that certain libraries will get shipped
eternal jungle
I noticed it was cancelling tickets basically as soon as possible
either when user logs off or requests a new ticket
golden gust
and that way they know that certain libraries will get shipped
unless you use arch btw
eternal jungle
or disconnects from the server even
chilly nova
unless you use arch btw
?
golden gust
steam-native
chilly nova
what
chilly nova
oh my god
but also i don't think that'll disable the sniper runtime
unless they do some really fucked up stuff
eternal jungle
yeah, it's a "base" linux system that all games can target
And it's just kind of compatible with your kernel because every linux distro uses roughly the same kernel?
jaunty fractal
You mean the tickets get cancelled or something else?
it just returns user is not in game as the message
eternal jungle
Ah
golden gust
and replaces it with system libraries
it’s funny because i dont think they even document why would you do it
golden gust
but also i don't think that'll disable the sniper runtime
why not?
chilly nova
because it's a separate thing from the scout runtime that steam runs itself off of
it runs under it
idk how the package works though
golden gust
chilly nova
oh that's a feature of steam
eternal jungle
@jaunty fractal Were you able to decode any of the inventory request messages (just for fun)?
I think they look like protobuf but I couldn't figure out where the definitions are
chilly nova
I think they look like protobuf but I couldn't figure out where the definitions ...
where are they decoded? in steamapi?
jaunty fractal
<@180990688916275200> Were you able to decode any of the inventory request messa...
not really my goal at the moment
chilly nova
you can dump protobufs from the binaries, or check out the steamdb gametracking repos for them
jaunty fractal
but prolly it's just binary that easily attaches to inventory
chilly nova
they won't have them if they're specific to the sdk gcsdk though probably
chilly nova
protoc --decode_raw also lets you decode it even without the schema
tight nexus
4 minutes compile, is it good or trash?
eternal jungle
3 minutes on my laptop with 2015 cpu
chilly nova
it's not like you need to recompile the entire thing every 5 minutes
sour sedge
I think they look like protobuf but I couldn't figure out where the definitions ...
Which ones are you looking for
tranquil mirage
steam should use flatpak (they kinda already use)
eternal jungle
Whichever are used for the inventory request messages
sour sedge
Define inventory requests, just loading the inventory?
eternal jungle
I don't think it would be mentioned in the source
eternal jungle
Define inventory requests, just loading the inventory?
I mean it's all the same format I think
both client loading its own inventory and also client sending desired loadout to server
and web api sending loadout back to server (I think)?
it all looks to use the same thing
whatever goes in the msg parameter
in web api requests
chilly nova
can you point me to the source files for it i'm too lazy to find it myself
eternal jungle
tf_gc_client and tf_gc_server
bottom of files
maybe other places but most of it was there
jaunty fractal
where are they decoded? in steamapi?
tf_gc_server
if you want message i can provide you one
chilly nova
oh well everything in that is protobuf
tight nexus
damn
eternal jungle
Are the 'shared objects' protobuf?
tight nexus
i compiled the branch with the forced firstperson
sour sedge
oh well everything in that is protobuf
Inventory requests use the teamfortress.com web api iirc
chilly nova
OH NVM I MAY BE STUPID
sour sedge
Pretty much everything else is protobuf though
tight nexus
how do i disable it?
chilly nova
i was looking in the old sources
eternal jungle
Okay well the webapi inventory stuff looks similar to the old anyways
if I remember right
it's just wrapped by web api
but like the msg I think is similar to existing stuff
jaunty fractal
kinda
chilly nova
OnWebapiEquipmentReceive?
chilly nova
CGCClientSharedObjectCache *pSOCache = GetGCClient()->AddLocalSOCache( steamID, bufMsgSubscription.Base(), bufMsgSubscription.TellPut() );
if ( !pSOCache )
{
Warning( "Inventory response failed to create SO cache (probably protobuf didn't parse)\n" );
return;
}
uhhh well
it does mention protobuf
tight nexus
how do i disable it?
coms is there a command?
chilly nova
if you want i can go looking in gcsdk for the actual function itself
eternal jungle
Idk if AddLocalSOCache would be what does the actual decoding
or if it would happen later
idk
chilly nova
CMsgSOCacheSubscribed
it parses
ugh i can only find references to it in random cheats lol
clever creekBOT
chilly nova
guess i'll just have to dump it myself 😔
chilly nova
yeah looks like it
sour sedge
I believe so
eternal jungle
I kinda want to check if the web api allows you to do anything you shouldn't be able to do
but probably not worth bothering
sour sedge
Web api is read only
shell temple
not really
shell temple
afaik its untracked on their end
chilly nova
so how does it actually work?
tight nexus
coms is there a command?
alright it's tf_taunt_first_person_always
chilly nova
does it just ask the server if it's valid
eternal jungle
No the client asks the server to ask the web api if you can have a certain loadout
and gives it the loadout
at least I think it does that
sour sedge
afaik its untracked on their end
Your loadout is entirely local yeah
Stored in a single file
It still validates that your steam user actually owns the items when the server gives you your items
chilly nova
message CMsgSOCacheSubscribed {
message SubscribedType {
optional int32 type_id = 1;
repeated bytes object_data = 2;
}
optional fixed64 owner = 1;
repeated .CMsgSOCacheSubscribed.SubscribedType objects = 2;
optional fixed64 version = 3;
optional .CMsgSOIDOwner owner_soid = 4;
optional uint32 service_id = 5;
repeated uint32 service_list = 6;
optional fixed64 sync_version = 7;
}
Will default to stock if you don't have an item with the matching id in your backpack
chilly nova
i'm not sure what object_data is
eternal jungle
Maybe just the internal format for inventories that econ_item_inventory can parse?
idk
chilly nova
oh wait why didn't i think to check the leaked code 🤦♀️
let's see if it has anything
wheat herald
I LOVE PROTOBUFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
eternal jungle
I misread also thought you meant objects
sour sedge
object_data just seems to be arbitrary base64 encoded data potentially?
Wait nvm it base64 encodes it when sent to the server
clever creekBOT
eternal jungle
Yeah the whole msg is base64 encoded
sour sedge
Looks like object_data is potentially unused?
Just takes the item id (which is the type)
chilly nova
are you sure that's the item id
idk enough about gcsdk
but this seems much more generic
chilly nova
@jaunty fractal can you send me one of the messages?
chilly nova
???
sour sedge
Hard converts it into CEconItem? How?
chilly nova
oh god this is a reflection system isn't it
sour sedge
Yep
chilly nova
gg
sour sedge
Its literally just CEconItem* pItem = ( CEconItem* )pItemCache->GetObject( i );
Then it sends the item id it rips out of that to the server
pMsg->add_item_id( pItem->GetID() );
If its equipped*
Oh they overwrite the = operator
sour sedge
Yep
But since its still a hard cast ig its already in that format???????
// We do destructive operations on our local object
YOU DON'T FUCKING SAY
chilly nova
But since its still a hard cast ig its already in that format???????
they check at the top
sour sedge
This system fucking sucks
eternal jungle
This system fucking sucks
The item part of it maybe
The overall design seems good
sour sedge
Its... really not
chilly nova
CSOEconItem
it's in the sdk source too
eternal jungle
With the client asking steam for its own inventory and sending only the loadout to the server
chilly nova
so you should just be able to parse it out
eternal jungle
and the server asking web api if it's allowed
sour sedge
Yeah but the way its reading that is a mess
eternal jungle
I cam think of many worse ways to design it
sour sedge
I can think of infinitely many better ways I am very grumpy after seeing this
chilly nova
please give example message i'm too lazy to grab one myself
clever creekBOT
eternal jungle
Wait isn't the part you're complaining about literally used in all valve games
for the inventories
like real tf2, dota, etc
sour sedge
Like, I can't call it over engineered, because its not done properly, but I can't call it underengineered because its impressive what they pulled out of their butt with this message passing system
Its literally the class as it would appear in memory serialized to bytes from what I can tell...
eternal jungle
He means inside the protobuf
sour sedge
^
chilly nova
yes
inside the protobuf
is another protobuf
CSOEconItem
that gets decoded into a CEconItem
sour sedge
(which is just CSharedObject)
chilly nova
yes
sour sedge
Wait where is it read into CSOEconItem
I don't think I saw that anywhere I though it was just left as repeated bytes
chilly nova
CEconItem::BParseFromMessage
chilly nova
it's just a weird reflection system
sour sedge
Its nasty
sour sedge
Thats what I'm complaining about
sour sedge
A lot? CSharedObject is used for a lot more than just econ stuff this is literally just disgusting they're dumping everything into a single type and then repulling it out of their ass
jaunty fractal
<@180990688916275200> can you send me one of the messages?
sorry i was tabbed out
yea
chilly nova
A lot? CSharedObject is used for a lot more than just econ stuff this is literal...
???
that's generally how it works
you have a base class that everything inherits from, allowing you to cast once you've verified it
well, it doesn't need to be inheritance
but you need some base info for every object
sour sedge
The entire point of protobufs is to have a well defined schema if you are just using one schema for everything you don't want protobufs you can literally serialize to anything at that point
chilly nova
ehhh yeah in this case it's a bit silly
sour sedge
You could literally just fucking base64 encode it at this point if this is how you're gonna use it 
eternal jungle
But they have CSOEconItem
chilly nova
i think what UB is saying is that they should have just made it a CSOEconItem in the protobuf definition
although since gcsdk is common across games maybe they can't do that 🤷
sour sedge
Well I was meaning more this entire system seems like it was retroactively made to support the econ system using an already existing format but yeah
Seems like a 1am hack job rather than properly... using and defining protobuf schemas
eternal jungle
I mean I don't really understand it too well but it seems like they did do that
sour sedge
I mean idk I'm a psycho who thinks your protocol schema should always be excessively extremely well defined without ambiguities like this
eternal jungle
and they just have an outer wrapper
that doesn't benefit from using protobuf but they just did it that way to integrate with existing gc stuff question mark
chilly nova
ehhh yeah in this case it's a bit silly
actually no it makes a lot more sense if they share the same outer protobuf across games
since item definitions are going to be different
or they could be
sour sedge
They are yeah I believe
chilly nova
what i mean is that they're not in a game specific dir
eternal jungle
they have a properly defined protobuf schema for CSOEconItem
message CSOEconItem
{
optional uint64 id = 1;
optional uint32 account_id = 2;
optional uint32 inventory = 3;
optional uint32 def_index = 4;
optional uint32 quantity = 5;
optional uint32 level = 6;
optional uint32 quality = 7;
optional uint32 flags = 8 [ default = 0 ];
optional uint32 origin = 9;
optional string custom_name = 10;
optional string custom_desc = 11;
repeated CSOEconItemAttribute attribute = 12;
optional CSOEconItem interior_item = 13;
optional bool in_use = 14 [ default = false ];
optional uint32 style = 15 [default = 0 ];
optional uint64 original_id = 16 [ default = 0 ];
optional bool contains_equipped_state = 17; // DEPRECATED
repeated CSOEconItemEquipped equipped_state = 18;
optional bool contains_equipped_state_v2 = 19; // will be set to true even if equipped_state is an empty array, meaning "unequipped from everything"
}```My issue lies with CSharedObject being used from everything from economy to lobbies to parties to competitive data to etc.. etc..
rich moat
```
message CSOEconItem
{
optional uint64 id = 1;
opt...
"quantity" defined... and yet each crate, key, and scrap is a separate item...
chilly nova
CSharedObject == base reflection class
sour sedge
Its all one fat fucking single protobuf all the way down that contains literally anything
chilly nova
it's not a protobuf
chilly nova
it's not a protobuf
the entire point is that its not a protobuf, it can be any object
eternal jungle
Idk I think it's literally fine
it allows for easy extensibility
and they can always use protobuf inside of it
as they do here
chilly nova
the entire point is that its not a protobuf, it can be any object
actually if i understand correctly they could put json in the object data and it would work as long as the type used that
awesome
sour sedge
Yeah its literally anything ever it is a hatecrime against people who like well defined hard schemas for their messaging
sour sedge
Its so evil
chilly nova
ur evil
sour sedge
And I literally work for a company that forced me to add arbitrary interior encryption to our protobuf schemas on the consumer end because they don't trust TLS for some reason
Actually probably should remove that last part but yeah
chilly nova
Actually probably should remove that last part but yeah
past tense
sour sedge
Already deleted the message
eternal jungle
I saw what you deleted
sour sedge
I have a lot of very choice thoughts on our entire setup at my irl job and I really want to talk about it but I make good money and don't want to get fired
The one respect I have about this shared object system is that you could literally just up and use any underlying protocol because it relies entirely on reflection shenanigans
shell temple
the shared object system's whole point is to treat all steam data as data
as in
everything is a shared object
sour sedge
Mmhm
shell temple
this helps caching, notifications, etc
its terrible but it does what it is designed to do
which is like
basically make a replicatable cacheable client-server sql row sharer
sour sedge
Its the complete inverse of how I like to design things basically is the tl;dr of why I don't like it
I like specialization
eternal jungle
but they can specialize inside of this shared object wrapper
sour sedge
basically make a replicatable cacheable client-server sql row sharer
I think the big benefit is more that its trivial to scale horizontally on a system like this
chilly nova
but they can specialize inside of this shared object wrapper
tbf the specialization is pushed out of the schema and into the code
which isnt as nice
sour sedge
I want specialization at the schema level yeah
chilly nova
just make a time machine
sour sedge
I do not want to return to the dark ages I will enjoy the safety of the modern era where I can write my nice fancy well documented specialized schemas with a type for everything I send over the wire
I can be grumpy about it though
chilly nova
idk man i just decode everything with c pointer magic and it seems to work
sour sedge
No need to parse when you can just reinterpret the data
chilly nova
thats what casts are for
sour sedge
Exactly, why would you want safety? You're wasting my cycles...
sour sedge
We should just be sending binary over the wire and just cast it in memory
It's only gonna error like 1% of the time anyways
clever creekBOT
sour sedge
Acceptable casualties
eternal jungle
I guess the web api loadout is always updated when you change your loadout in tf2
like real tf2
chilly nova
someone should violate tos
eternal jungle
but yeah you guys were right there's no writing to it from mod tf
sour sedge
Yeah that's just a proxy to the real item servers
Your mod loadout is all local in a .txt file using valves object format I forget the name of
eternal jungle
It's keyvalues
chilly nova
keyvalues binary my beloved
sour sedge
Just use messagepack smh my head are they stupid
eternal jungle
I wonder what the item ids are
I guess they match the item ids you see on backpack.tf for example
rich moat
dogshit ass sound code
sour sedge
Has to exist in your backpack though, it does check that bare minimum
clever creekBOT
eternal jungle
They get changed when the item changes hands :/
chilly nova
when will someone rewrite all of the proprietary engine dlls
rich moat
i think it might literally be like race condition RNG to determine whether it plays vacc charge 1 or the stock medigun charge sound
race condition + prediction (this is on a branch without fixing the prediction issue)
sour sedge
when will someone rewrite all of the proprietary engine dlls
Rewriting vphysics in rust rn
rich moat
cause like on frog fortress I only get vacc charge but on live tf2 i only get stock medigun noise in my tests
eternal jungle
Does tf2 still use the original vphysics or did joshie replace it with their jolt physics?
chilly nova
original
rich moat
I don't think vphysics jolt is considered stable enough yet
eternal jungle
So it works on 64 bit?
chilly nova
yes
rich moat
i haven't looked at in in a while
eternal jungle
huh
rich moat
updates relatively recently at least
chilly nova
since thats 64bit
sour sedge
Rewriting vphysics in rust rn
Will be using the rapier physics engine not because it's popular but because it specifically sucks for this task in particular
rich moat
I think you mean the cube collision code
rich moat
oh wait it got fixed right
chilly nova
youre thinking of the sphere check
sour sedge
I believe some physics on live are broken as of latest update, push triggers in particular behave wrongly iirc?
rich moat
right
chilly nova
I believe some physics on live are broken as of latest update, push triggers in ...
i blame ub
eternal jungle
When you crouch while standing on somebody's head it bugs out
since latest update
sour sedge
A push trigger sending you towards the ceiling will clientside visually clip you into the ceiling for some reason, but doesn't actually clip you into the ceiling from the servers perspective, zero clue why that happens now
eternal jungle
it's like network stuff not physics though
chilly nova
youre thinking of the sphere check
wget 😢
rich moat
it's like network stuff not physics though
probably to do with the prediction changes
chilly nova
perhaps
rich moat
eternal jungle
I read all the notes for the 64 bit update and I don't know what was changed in it
rich moat
supposedly walking on props and other entities is improved
but uh, i guess players don't count towards that
sour sedge
supposedly walking on props and other entities is improved
Moving platforms disagree
chilly nova
if the funny mac symbols were still with us...
rich moat
me when I test only on listen servers (i don't know if thats true I have not tested the physics on listen or dedicated servers)
shell temple
how do you check an entity's life time
eternal jungle
happened even on listen
eternal jungle
is it possible to run the sdk without a server binary
it crashes
on windows anyways
chilly nova
smh my head
eternal jungle
maybe you could skip over it
shell temple
does anyone know how the model gets hidden when youre hauling a building
mortal gate
are you referring to r_drawviewmodel toggle scripts or just how they changed the animation position
chilly nova
not sure exactly but maybe trace through CTFPlayer::TryToPickupBuilding
looks like it calls the MakeCarriedObject method of the building entity, which then does a bunch of sstuff
shell temple
yeah i cant find anything to do with it
sour sedge
does anyone know how the model gets hidden when youre hauling a building
Trying to think
shell temple
it seems like at some point it clears out the model in some way
but literally cannot find it
sour sedge
I believe the building itself doesn't exist on the server?
chilly nova
it's an entity
chilly nova
maybe in CBaseEntity::FollowEntity?
sour sedge
There's two separate classes for the builder, one for server, one for client, which hauled buildings should use as well, so check both ig?
chilly nova
oh right
chilly nova
start commenting out parts of it and see what happens?
wheat herald
have yoiu just searched for "hide" in the enginer builtign code
wheat herald
the code for engineer that gets built
eternal jungle
Wild guess but maybe related to bool IsDisabled( void ) { return m_bDisabled || m_bCarried; }?
sour sedge
Are you sure its not the entity changing its bodygroup?
chilly nova
but where
chilly nova
related to earlier but i found something rather funny about protobuf
the wire format doesn't differentiate between bytes and submessages
afaict
so protoc decodes the SO objects as a submessage
what if it's related to bonemerging?
actually that sounds really stupid now that i say it
chilly nova
uhhhh i think hlmv lets you view that but i'm not sure
eternal jungle
looked but didn't see it
clever creekBOT
rich moat
is it f7 now
eternal jungle
Erm what the cringe
chilly nova
no it's \
rich moat
bruh
chilly nova
what if it's related to bonemerging?
i might have actually been right??
hm no maybe not
but i did manage to make the sentry completely disappear when i place it again
tight nexus
no it's `\`
is the key next to the 1 key the ` ?
eternal jungle
where bodygroups
sour sedge
@rich moat don't we bonemerge to the player's viewmodel when we want to do the persisent variables trick with teleporters?
chilly nova
is the key next to the 1 key the ` ?
yeah, to the left
tight nexus
i knew it
rich moat
<@204761988482465794> don't we bonemerge to the player's viewmodel when we want ...
idk i've never done any of that stuff in vscript
(i presume you're talking about vscript)
sour sedge
Yeah
tight nexus
i told coms that it depends on the input method
` only works if you are using an english keyboard
in ES ISO keyboard that key is the \
sour sedge
OnGoActive / OnGoInactive?
Doesn't seem to be this
tight nexus
i proposed the F3
sour sedge
Its related to m_bPlacing
Something about that being true causes it to only be rendered and networked to its m_hBuilder
chilly nova
how do you know?
m_bPlacing seems... odd
that sounds like it's being placed, but not placed
idk
eternal jungle
placing just means the same thing as carrying
I think
// Add this object to the team's list
// But only if we're not placing it
if ( pTeam && (!m_bPlacing) )
{
pTeam->AddObject( this );
}```?valve ™
sour sedge
m_bPlacing seems... odd
Because its what we do in vscript 
rich moat
isn't carrying used for picked up weapons?
sour sedge
rich moat
thats my guess since i think when you look at a player with a picked up weapon it says "Carrying X" iirc
sour sedge
Preventing it from being set to placing causes this funnyness
chilly nova
oh wait does it change it's model to the blueprint?
rich moat
isn't there a bug where if you pick up a building with an infinite sapper the spy can also see the blueprint?
that might help figure this out
sour sedge
Well, I know the sentry is only networked to the local player, or is supposed to be, when in placement mode
chilly nova
oh so maybe it only networks to the object's owner
wheat herald
too bad I cant test jack SHIT because VISUAL STUDIO FUCKING SUCKS and is REFUSING TO COMPILE MY CODE
eternal jungle
too bad I cant test jack SHIT because VISUAL STUDIO FUCKING SUCKS and is REFUSIN...
Wheres niterux fortress
sour sedge
Anyone feel free to hop on
chilly nova
maybe it has something to do with activities
wheat herald
I did
it just made the building destroy when picked up
which is funny
but pointless
rich moat
m_bcarried
me when I win a comp game at 2/20 K/D
wheat herald
i dont know how to test what any this shit looks like from another players perspective
chilly nova
friends
sour sedge
@shell temple
Potential lead
int CBaseObject::ShouldTransmit( const CCheckTransmitInfo *pInfo )
{
// Always transmit to owner
if ( GetBuilder() && pInfo->m_pClientEnt == GetBuilder()->edict() )
return FL_EDICT_ALWAYS;
// Placement models only transmit to owners
if ( IsPlacing() )
return FL_EDICT_DONTSEND;
if ( pInfo->m_pClientEnt )
{
CBaseEntity *pRecipientEntity = CBaseEntity::Instance( pInfo->m_pClientEnt );
if ( pRecipientEntity && pRecipientEntity->ShouldForceTransmitsForTeam( GetTeamNumber() ) )
return FL_EDICT_ALWAYS;
}
return BaseClass::ShouldTransmit( pInfo );
}
oh you know what that would make perfect sense
it hides the model by not sending the entity
eternal jungle
but it hides from owner too
sour sedge
No
chilly nova
no, it turns into the blueprint
sour sedge
It always shows to the owner
eternal jungle
isn't that a separate model?
eternal jungle
where does it do that
sour sedge
@chilly nova join again should be able to see now
wheat herald
this code is a mess tbh...
why is there so much...
did they really need that much code
sour sedge
Well yeah its in like 8 different files
chilly nova
old complex game
wheat herald
rewriting in 10 lines
chilly nova
on old complex game engine
eternal jungle
Niterux fortress will be 100,000 loc
shell temple
no, it turns into the blueprint
i cant see the blueprint
where is the blueprint
how do i force it not to be blueprint
chilly nova
?
umbral siren
on old complex game engine
21 years is not old 😓
shell temple
thats irrelevant
wheat herald
if you comment out the first 2 lines on should transmit it hides the blueprint
eternal jungle
thats how you force it to not be blueprint
wheat herald
?
eternal jungle
well we just look and find where it swaps normal model to blueprint
chilly nova
::Spawn
shell temple
what in spawn?
chilly nova
that's where it sets the model to it's placement model
chilly nova
<@115180582845153282>
Potential lead
```
int CBaseObject::ShouldTransmit( const...
but if you're just trying to hide the model from the client just do it here
shell temple
that's where it sets the model to it's placement model
i dont see where
am i looking at the right ::Spawn
what line what file
rich moat
i just found out they call this function in another part of the medigun code in regards to the vaccinator :(
shell temple
i think its buildpoints though
rich moat
so close
chilly nova
chilly nova
thats how you force it to be nothing
what do you mean by nothing
the entity is never "nothing"
it's just not networked
shell temple
i want to draw the actual sentry model
for everyone
or well in my case the dispenser model
chilly nova
even when it's being carried?
chilly nova
CObjectSentrygun::Spawn sets the placement model for the sentry
so change it to be the placed model
and always network it
like, remove the IsPlacing check in CBaseObject::ShouldTransmit
shell temple
where does it do that for dispenser though
eternal jungle
I think it is OnGoActive
chilly nova
CObjectDispenser::Spawn
shell temple
also its used in other places
chilly nova
?
shell temple
GetPlacementModel
wheat herald
const char* CObjectDispenser::GetPlacementModel()
{
return /IsMiniBuilding() ? MINI_DISPENSER_MODEL_PLACEMENT :/ DISPENSER_MODEL_PLACEMENT;
}
eternal jungle
You'll have to make the the model networked to everyone even when placing
shell temple
i dont really understand whats going on because when does it spawn
yes ik
i already did that when it was said
but in my case it wasnt networking to me either
so it wasnt that
wheat herald
throw all the code in chatgpt and ask it to rewrite it to stop being so stupid
shell temple
let me show you the problem
chilly nova
set a breakpoint on spawn and look at the backtrace?
i may be misunderstanding completely
shell temple
yes its a very weird question
why is the model not rendering
im carrying it rn
the shadow is rendering
wheat herald
i dont know ive never seen that
shell temple
but the model is not
wheat herald
your build is broken
chilly nova
what did you change
eternal jungle
Can you just comment line 475 in c_baseobject
shell temple
if i go to placement mode
it works
no
nothing broke
im trying to implement new functionality
im trying to get it to render
when it wasnt rendering before
and i have been asking this whole time
why isnt it rendering
and no one is giving me an answer
wheat herald
can this new functionality kill engineer whenever he builds something please
i dont know ive never had that happen to me before
shell temple
yes obviously
i am adding functionality
the only thing i cannot figure out is how to make the model not invisible
while carrying
eternal jungle
How are you putting it on his back
chilly nova
i don't understand what's going on in this screenshot
wheat herald
I DONT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING AND I GIVE UO
shell temple
when he picks it up
shell temple
i don't understand what's going on in this screenshot
i made it so the building remains active while carrying
eternal jungle
Do you want it active
sour sedge
Can you share your screen coms its kinda hard to figure out when we're talking past eachother
radiant cape
based, replay
shell temple
maybe its a problem with IsPlacing as other people noted
because technically i have split up semantics of placing and carrying
sour sedge
Who's the owner of the dispenser, still the engineer? Or are you creating a new dispenser entity?
Idk what all code you've touched so all I can do is grasp at straws here lol
eternal jungle
If it's active does that means it heals people still
eternal jungle
while he's carrying it?
radiant cape
you guys talking about dispenser made me remember that engi bug that if you stand on the top of the dispenser it gives you double metal
due to two checks occurring at the same time
sour sedge
radiant cape
shounic has a video about it
shell temple
the thing is, im not using builder
since engineer can use his weapons
so i think the builder creates some weird proxy entity
for the placer
sour sedge
No, its the same entity as before
eternal jungle
What makes the toolbox