let me add back the 20 second b4nny bind
#Team Comtress 2 Megathread - It's finally here
shell temple
mortal gate
It probably is? But it probably would require more work than Valve was willing to invest I'd wager.
ruby cape
You can literally bind those from the keybind settings
shell temple
oh shit the soldier chasing me and missed 19 rockets
mortal gate
especially since IIRC the original balance of TF2 was with higher player counts and such
shell temple
good thing the GC decided i can respawn
eternal jungle
Yeah it's annoying that there's random delay
shell temple
It probably is? But it probably would require more work than Valve was willing t...
their approach was to take 6s and pretend they could make it what they wanted
mortal gate
I guess on the plus side they did eventually kinda correct some of the stuff, as haphazard and slow it all is.
wheat herald
add a respawn button
shell temple
it basically ruined casual balance and ruined competitive balance
mortal gate
their approach was to take 6s and pretend they could make it what they wanted
I'm pretty sure it was doable but it definitely needed way more work than they seemed to put into it.
shell temple
b4nny is cool
ruby arrow
or /srs??????
wheat herald
/srs
shell temple
I'm pretty sure it was doable but it definitely needed way more work than they s...
yes it wasnt gonna be automatic like they were hoping
they were used to being able to push their weight as valve around
next tiger
Please dont ban one of the biggest tf2 streamers from the mod you want to have a following
shell temple
but the tf2 community was entrenched
ruby arrow
biggest tf2 streamer is actually me, John TF2
clever creekBOT
shell temple
i DO want to do what valve didnt do
but itll take years
years of balancing
and its not gonna be perfect but people are going to have to get used to more dynamic balance for a period
wheat herald
Please dont ban one of the biggest tf2 streamers from the mod you want to have a...
ok but what about banning zesty jesus
mortal gate
they were used to being able to push their weight as valve around
Yeah, I think that's probably part of why Valve just gave up. It's been interesting though to witness since what, Uber Update (that's when I started TF2).
mortal gate
i DO want to do what valve didnt do
that'd be the dream, but I'd imagine first trying to get QoL without the game exploding on impact is the big one
since even seasonal updates break the game half the time these days
next tiger
Somewhat chaotic balancing seems fine if we have the beta branch
clever creekBOT
wheat herald
years of balancing
oke that's fine
mortal gate
wonder how difficult it would be to add War Paint QoL now that the SDK is a thing
jaunty fractal
hardcode a zesty ban
yeaaa......
i see no way that could backfire
ruby cape
Tc2 overcharged
jaunty fractal
landcore thorium ore debacle minecraft
ruby arrow
and it's all new users
mortal gate
would be amusing if someone built War Paint compiler like how cosmetics has a compiler for TF2
jaunty fractal
greg vs mdiyo
next tiger
yeaaa......
i see no way that could backfire
it would sure be one way to get publicity
jaunty fractal
it absolutely would
high wigeonBOT
@jaunty fractal has leveled up! (4 ➜ 5)
spark birch
seems like we got some zesty fans in here <:glorpie:1256367654088998914>
You don't need to be a Zesty fan to understand why this would be completely stupid and would result in the exact opposite of what you want.
next tiger
Was the visible laser for sniper ever considered? I cant seem to find anything relevant on it in this server
high wigeonBOT
@next tiger has leveled up! (1 ➜ 2)
jaunty fractal
Was the visible laser for sniper ever considered? I cant seem to find anything r...
rich moat
Was the visible laser for sniper ever considered? I cant seem to find anything r...
just a simple search in this server I see that coms has mentioned it as something she'd like sniper to have but that was years ago and unrelated to tc2
as for if its been considered as of this iteration of tc2, not sure
next tiger
I like the counter play it seems to introduce
rich moat
I think there's already been some sniper balancing though
ruby arrow
choosing sniper should make your computer explode
shell temple
ive changed my mind about the tracers shit
rich moat
iirc coms was talking about headshot doing bleed
shell temple
its just too cluttered
spark birch
ive changed my mind about the tracers shit
Removal of spawn wallhacks?
shell temple
sniper tracers
spark birch
Aww..
jaunty fractal
Finally something worthy of using is_computer_on_fire()
wheat herald
lock sniper's vertical aiming like doom
rich moat
vertical autoaim 
wheat herald
hell yeah
next tiger
Sniper has had a terrible neck injury
zinc root
I'm interested and also capable of hosting one
next tiger
Give sniper a neck brace
ruby arrow
I'm interested and also capable of hosting one
You cannot host a server rn
it's really jank
zinc root
yeah other than that
ruby arrow
there r some patches somewhere i t hink
eternal jungle
What are the problems with it?
just weird tf2 GC stuff?
Because you can host servers for other sourcemods fine
jaunty fractal
yeah other than that
Best and safest option for now is hosting through client and using steam networking
ruby cape
Best and safest option for now is hosting through client and using steam network...
Use "-textmode" and "+maxplayers 25"
high wigeonBOT
@ruby cape has leveled up! (5 ➜ 6)
jaunty fractal
just weird tf2 GC stuff?
Problems stem from webapi being webapi and requiring steamapi whichi is somewhat broken on dedicated servers when running init
ruby cape
And you have to compile the server yourself, then edit gameinfo.txt then copy some library files from tf2 to tc2, then copy over the maps folder
I've also had to copy over the scripts folder too
jaunty fractal
And somewhat different build methodology. If you're intrested in building yourself theres pull request with compile script for dedicated server binary with correct linkages
ruby cape
@jaunty fractal I've been thinking of just running a textmode client and just not allowing it to join the server it starts
rich moat
I'm looking into fixing this vaccinator audio bug that i reported years ago (without the shitty bandaid I put in this issue) and I was fairly certain its a prediction error but now i'm not so sure, so I figured I'd ask in here since some people would hopefully know more about the networking than I would, what part of the networking would end up reverting a value to what the server thinks it is, is it lag compensation?
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/4479
also side note, I'm about 90% sure I know why mediguns constantly cause prediction errors, but I'm not sure its really an issue
jaunty fractal
But that requires client instance... Kinda troublesome. When i'll have some time likely would create docker image for tc2
rich moat
i've never seen any adverse affects of pred errors for the medigun
jaunty fractal
And remove SteamHTTP dependency
This has been broken on dedicated servers for years...
wheat herald
https://github.com/mastercomfig/tc2/pull/13
how do i compile this for windows
wheat herald
☹️
jaunty fractal
You would have to get your hands dirty with solution compile commands
I guess having docker image would be better
chilly nova
#dev-log📻 message whats this?
shell temple
https://discord.com/channels/389089828249010188/409469758962925568/1343376416711...
help comp anti-cheat teams
can detect if someone stops recording in the middle of a game
chilly nova
if someone is cheating couldnt they just patch it out
ruby cape
Prob for when tc2 is used as a base for a comp client that isnt open source like tc2
shell temple
if someone is cheating couldnt they just patch it out
thats another problem to be solved
jaunty fractal
Do i want to remove server side inventory checks or do curl conversion...
ruby cape
Do i want to remove server side inventory checks or do curl conversion...
Are they just to check if you actually own the items?
jaunty fractal
I feel like without basic checking of inventory everyone would be cheating in valve launcher
ruby cape
Just check they aren't the mvm mini-gun and trust the client 300% nothing will go wrong
chilly nova
remove checks who cares
jaunty fractal
Are they just to check if you actually own the items?
Yes
Everytime you modify loadout it calls api to check items
chilly nova
does it actually say that specifically or does it imply it through the no proxies/whatever clause
jaunty fractal
But it suuuuucks since its making custom weapons somewhat harder
But at the same time leaving checks in keeps valve at bay
chilly nova
yeah how would that work with custom items
shell temple
"continue to respect that connection"
so if you are using anything from TF2 items then you must use the inventory system
eternal jungle
Idk if that's what that means
shell temple
what else could it mean
chilly nova
i dont think thats really what it means
clever creekBOT
chilly nova
cosmetics yeah sure
spark birch
"Respect our bottom line. Or else."
jaunty fractal
At this point. Cosmetics are to be avoided. Custom weapons, maybe in flight those could be added in as separate call?
shell temple
if its an entirely custom weapon sure
eternal jungle
That entire paragraph is just saying don't make mods that profit off of the tf2 workshop or econ
shell temple
or just uses the stock asset
eternal jungle
At least that's how I read it
chilly nova
then does rebalancing violate tos because it could affect the value of an item
shell temple
That entire paragraph is just saying don't make mods that profit off of the tf2 ...
it says "and"
jaunty fractal
In theory. Yes.
wheat herald
they dont want free item mods
why do they let skial have free item mods
shell temple
idk
but they punished people in csgo for doing that
i think they just dont know about it idk
ancient mesa
what if a mod created entirely new items that were rare but free to obtain somehow. they could become valuable. would valve have an issue with that?
jaunty fractal
Mmm skial and saigns my beloved....
eternal jungle
Arent there like tons of server communities that provide custom weapons
or custom items
like creators tf used to but that's dead but there were others too
harsh hemlock
why do they let skial have free item mods
Valve used to care more, from what I remember, they punished a server for letting you use unusuals, but nowadays they probably stopped checking
high wigeonBOT
@harsh hemlock has leveled up! (0 ➜ 1)
eternal jungle
spark birch
what if a mod created entirely new items that were rare but free to obtain someh...
Most people don't care for custom cosmetics. If it's not "Official" it's not worth your time.
The fact that Valve has allowed us access to the economy in these mods is incredible, and any mod that uses it correctly will have a hell of a lot more traffic.
jaunty fractal
Hoooold up..... Isn't it potential vulnerability
ancient mesa
i remember some server had silver australiums that are like what im talking about
ruby cape
🔥 🔥 🔥
eternal jungle
Brb im gonna go check some private backpacks
ancient mesa
new backpack.tf owned mod secretly scans inventories and sells the data
chilly nova
👀
ruby cape
Backpack.tf has a premium sub right? I can see traders paying a lot to see private inventories
spark birch
How to piss of Valve legal in one simple trick
jaunty fractal
I would have to do some testing if i remember that
ancient mesa
has valve specified that mods cannot have trading?
wheat herald
I think mods with trading would be dumb
what do they have to gain
mods aren't allowed to make money
ruby cape
Tf2 NFT mod just dropped
ruby cape
Is this a new update? I'm not home to recompile my server literally 1987
wheat herald
Is this a new update? I'm not home to recompile my server literally 1987
just ssh in linux nert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wheat herald
what
chilly nova
new-ish
shell temple
0.12.0
Playtest Experiments
- Reworked single shot weapons to allow for perfect accuracy after a firing cooldown more in line with their firing rate. This gives players the choice between slower firing with accuracy, or full fire rate with spread (for pistols, revolvers)
- Spy can now attack while decloaking. Delay after starting decloak is decreased 2.0s -> 1.4s. Full decloak time is still 2s.
- The L'Etranger can always attack while cloaked.
- All Spy Revolvers can headshot.
- The Ambassador is now fully accurate.
- Spy now cloaks faster (1s -> 0.7s)
Changes
- Added leniency to explosions, to allow for splash to not be blocked by small variations in level geometry. Deals reduced damage the more obstructed a target is.
- Added a hidden cvar to remove randomness from Demoman's projectiles (enabled by default for this playtest)
- Added tf_revolver_dynamic_crosshair to control revolver crosshair showing inaccuracy
- Fixed overheal size on the HUD from yesterday's patch
- Fixed Dead Ringer being able to reset reload time
- Possibly fixed an issue with crouching
- Added functionality for server owners to detect demo stops
- Added DX8 quality pumpkin bomb head to mat_reducefillrate
- Fixed attachments on viewmodels like Botkillers being inverted when using left-hand mode (thanks Marxvee!)
- Fixed a few bugs which were preventing some MvM custom content
- Fixed strength powerup not working against MvM tank
- Fixed destroy entity task not being hooked up
chilly nova
it's been a thing for a while
jaunty fractal
Its a w*ndows server 😢
Gotta make docker container tomorrow/ when i wake up
ancient mesa
why are we massively buffing gun spy
ruby cape
No more 0 DMG rockets 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥
shell temple
why are we massively buffing gun spy
because im on crack and its fun
ancient mesa
can i set launch params in itch
jaunty fractal
Aren' the revolvers buffed by getting no spread?
silver ridge
Launch patch tf2 much?
torpid grove
when random face stab
shell temple
Spy can n ow finish people off if they have a skill issue
ancient mesa
spy can sit in a corner and headshot people while invis
round anchor
tc2 dedicated server when
wheat herald
wraith cloud
chilly nova
tc2 dedicated server when
THE HACKS
torpid grove
Spy can n ow finish people off if they have a skill issue
give spy a revolver replacement that is called cl interp_5
sharp gust
my dopamine playing spy is no more...
jaunty fractal
Well i could sparesome resources on server in EU
ancient mesa
its been so long since i listened to the menu songs
zinc root
https://github.com/mastercomfig/tc2/pull/13
item server work with this build?
harsh hemlock
idk
ancient mesa
buff sniper and demo
ruby cape
item server work with this build?
You have to compile the things inside the zip file and inject them into the server
delicate schooner
do it valve
fast terrace
@shell temple is there any interest in a subtick port to tf2
delicate schooner
buff sniper and demo
NO
high wigeonBOT
@fast terrace has leveled up! (24 ➜ 25)
shell temple
<@115180582845153282> is there any interest in a subtick port to tf2
yes
fast terrace
alr im on it rn
ancient mesa
demo is underpowered i think he needs a few more stickies in the clip
ruby cape
128 tick when?
fast terrace
its a different kind of subtick
mortal gate
then you can call it the "tickless update" or something
wheat herald
alr im on it rn
it's not possible with the sdk
fast terrace
it's not possible with the sdk
it is
wheat herald
okay‼️
vague knoll
then you can call it the "tickless update" or something
This tickles me
ancient mesa
if you wanna buff spy let him ping things
enemy locations, buildings, uber percentage
shell temple
this cloak attack shit is so annoying to fix
ruby cape
if you wanna buff spy let him ping things
You should let spy face stab 100% of the time
spark birch
Ping to outline the enemy. Love it.
ruby cape
My gifs won't load imagine the buffed stamp here
spark birch
Spawn wallhacks are ours to control!
shell temple
sorry for the delay on the playtest everyone
me when i assume changing something in tf2 is simple
shell temple
okay
one last thing i need to change
shooting force decloaks you
and i need to remove that from the lernranger
and then we will be good to test
sorry for wasting everyones time :(
dusky sapphire
its no prawnblem
vague knoll
Spy has a gun!?
candid arrow
**0.12.0**
**Playtest Experiments**
* Reworked single shot weapons to allow for...
If these Spy buffs are to remain, Pyro having no heat system sounds like a moderate buff tbh
harsh hemlock
remove pyro weapons, that will fix their balance
candid arrow
Remove all classes, that will fix their balance
spark birch
Remove all classes, that will fix their balance
Congrats, we have made CS:GO
candid arrow
We made Spectator Fortress
hushed sinew
cl_showfps 1
shrewd junco
uhh found a bug with the new patch, when you uncloak it lets you shoot all your shots at once lol
delicate schooner
uhh found a bug with the new patch, when you uncloak it lets you shoot all your ...
ngl this would make spy viable in the game
and really high skill
ruby cape
Yeah spy needs this buff to be even slightly usable
delicate schooner
I would suggest thinking of new stats for amby
amby right now is the defacto best weapon
torpid grove
ngl this would make spy viable in the game
no it woudldnt, i think it would just make him a much scarier sniper
clever creekBOT
torpid grove
youd be braindead to use it
delicate schooner
no it woudldnt, i think it would just make him a much scarier sniper
make it skillful
torpid grove
since u only need to hit 1 shot even full body
delicate schooner
why do you think spies use amby?
torpid grove
why do you think spies use amby?
amby you need to actually aim to the head
this, full body
anyone can land it
delicate schooner
Well yes
shell temple
okay well
hushed sinew
fuck it, we deagle
shell temple
i give up on letranger being able to fire while cloaked
torpid grove
make it so you need to hs
yea
torpid grove
just make it do that kinda damage for only hs
but mabye nerf it to not kill light class
shrewd junco
i think the bug works with all revolvers, it worked with the enforcer too when i was messing around
candid arrow
Fuck it let Spy dual wield
shrewd junco
didn't try stock or amby
ruby cape
Give spy a shotgun
candid arrow
Give spy a shotgun
Headshotting* shotgun
And only then he'll be somewhat playable
ruby cape
Headshotting* shotgun
And only then he'll be somewhat playable
So true I forgot about that
hushed sinew
fuck it we ballin
chilly nova
projectiles shouldn't be lag compensated because they're relatively slow
it would make them feel unfair imo (well, more unfair than getting killed from around a corner with hitscan)
fast terrace
either a.) projectiles arent lag compensated (status quo)
b.) self damage is predicted but projectiles arent lag compensated (rocket jumps feel the same as local server no matter what but theyre delayed by ping)
c.) projectiles are lag compensated (you dont have to lead your projectiles for ping anymore but high ping players have rockets coming out 10 feet in front of their face)
chilly nova
lag compensated or predicted
fast terrace
predicted and lagcompensated
chilly nova
i'm fine with clientside prediction for projectiles
fast terrace
they cant really be predicted without lag compensation
unless you only predict the self damage (i.e. rocket jumping)
b.) is a compromise
shell temple
new update pushed, fixes some unintended bugs with spy decloak and wrong time
and letranger can FULLY SHOOT WHILE CLOAKED
wooohooooo
yippeee
candid arrow
Now shields having compression blast resistance doesn't sound so arbitrary anymore
storm cargo
Are these spy changes testing the waters to see if they play better?
clever creekBOT
eternal jungle
mastercoms is such a troll
candid arrow
Are these spy changes testing the waters to see if they play better?
Probably not
It sounds like they committed to these changes
high wigeonBOT
@candid arrow has leveled up! (1 ➜ 2)
wheat herald
transgineer
tranquil mirage
why it doesnt work why git someone help me
tranquil mirage
it kills my modifications on the scripts but whatever
chilly nova
git rebase is your friend but it's more of a pain
fast terrace
waxen bane
https://github.com/mastercomfig/tc2/pull/13
So my understanding is this is someone implementing it and mastercomms just needs to merge it?
wheat herald
yeah
@dusky sapphire @shell temple my cat stepped on my computersower button ill be back
eternal jungle
I think we should give Niterux commit access to Team Comtress 2
clever creekBOT
eternal jungle
HaikuBot agrees
ruby arrow
why it doesnt work why git someone help me
git moment
chilly nova
I think we should give Niterux commit access to Team Comtress 2
I think we should give replaycoping commit access to Team Comtress 2
(i am an unbiased third-party)
eternal jungle
HaikuBot doesn't agree with you :/
chilly nova
fuck haikubot
shell temple
I think we should give replaycoping commit access to Team Comtress 2
your first change was giving yourself powerplay
banned
chilly nova
lol
shell temple
yeah true
with linux you have to be careful with file writes
too many and it might corrupt something!
chilly nova
how should I handle detecting windows or linux
eternal jungle
What do you even use to run bash on windows
chilly nova
mingw probably idk
anyways just use linux if you want decent scripting 
ok so how the fuck did I manage to keep the powerplay code but delete the actually important part of the commit
epic git fail
eternal jungle
anyways just use linux if you want decent scripting <:steamhapp:1133083341726421...
I want both
Why cant I have a computer where everything works without being broken garbage (windows) and also have nice unix like shell and scripting and core utilities and system APIs
chilly nova
it's called macos
eternal jungle
I have to resort to using virtual machines
chilly nova
shell temple
@hallow glen @fiery marlin
eternal jungle
it's called macos
True except games dont work and apple is cringe
chilly nova
video games are for losers anyways
chilly nova
🙏
coms can you disable hl2mp in the build scripts please and thanks
i refuse to do it myself because that would either mean i have to make another pr, only change it for linux, or make a windows change in a linux pr
and that would just awful
i might die
fast terrace
anyone wanna join a gc for netcode overhaul stuff
chilly nova
gc?
fast terrace
group chat
chilly nova
i like being part of group chats (i will not be remotely helpful)
clever creekBOT
fast terrace
mostly looking for people who know about prediction/frame order stuff
chilly nova
currently it's hardcoded to linux in shared.sh but obviously that won't work
@shell temple would appreciate some guidance on this
ruby cape
Just make a seperate .bat file for Windows
I dont see a reason to make it into one file for both oses
chilly nova
99% of the behaviour is shared at least partially so i don't think that's really worthwhile
maybe i'll just make it a script argument :/
inland solstice
put fsr and dlss into TF2 trust
rich moat
since it got buried earlier i'll ask again, where exactly do prediction errors matter? like the medigun is constantly creating prediction errors but I don't think it actually matters, and arguably its just allowing the client to do less work each tick
its tangentially related to a different bug i'm trying to fix
chilly nova
the medigun prediction errors cause constant view jitter
it's really noticeable
at least it does on listen servers
rich moat
oh ok its easy to fix i can make a PR lol
eternal jungle
I only notice it in listen servers
chilly nova
just get rid of it
eternal jungle
it was perfectly smooth in dedicated
rich moat
its just that all of the code that determines how much uber you get is serverside only
the client asumes its always just the base rate
not taking into account the target's health, uberheals, etc.
chilly nova
then that should cause issues on both listen and dedicated
so there's something else
or maybe it does cause errors on both
idk
rich moat
its not a very large difference
when i was testing it last night with vac it was like .000150 difference
or something like that
chilly nova
yeah cause it immediately jumps back to the real value
and then recomputes
so it'll only ever be a small difference
shell temple
@fiery marlin
fiery marlin
rich moat
I'm fairly certain its sort of related to the bug where getting the vac uber sometimes plays the sound a ton in one tick, but when I put all the server code onto the client as well it didn't fix the issue so i assume there's some other issue going on that I'm not understanding
idk when the client updates its values to what the server has, I assumed it would only do so if prediction failed
eternal jungle
If I use dxlevel 81 in comtress will it be fine or does it install a rat on my computer
eternal jungle
I like dxlevel 81 it looks better and runs better
chilly nova
you just have bad taste 😃
shell temple
it exits
eternal jungle
Well that is easily changable
I was hoping you didnt notice you messed it up the first time
shell temple
what
eternal jungle
with the tf tf_beta
rich moat
the one part of the uber code that can't be added to the client (unless i'm missing something) is this part which i put as server only, a modifier based on an unused attribute which requires a call to respawn room code
everything else seems to work fine
rich moat
honestly like does it need to be predicted
i don't know much about networking
although I guess I should also just test if disabling the lag comp code just fixes the vacc issue, just to see
chilly nova
oh also while you're taking a look at prediction/lagcomp related issues take a look at the machina tracers
rich moat
i mean i'm not really looking into prediction issues
like i said its tangentially related
chilly nova
high wigeonBOT
@chilly nova has leveled up! (54 ➜ 55)
rich moat
i am not the right person to look into netcode stuff lol
but i guess i know more than the average spy main
ow
disabling lag compensation definitely does not fix it
rich moat
gonna do that now
chilly nova
linux pr has been made since otherwise it would probably sit there for another week
it's not complete though
spark birch
disabling lag compensation definitely does not fix it
You're not thinking like Valve enough, introduce a second memory leak. 
chilly nova
whar
rich moat
idk if i just can't disable prediction or if it doesn't fix it
cl_predict just snaps back to 1, although i did try setting cl_predictweapons 0 and that stuck
rich moat
well after i try to disable it i get only partial latch resets instead of full ones
yeah
chilly nova
then idk i'm not familiar enough with the prediction code
clever creekBOT
rich moat
worst part about this bug is that i can't even try to set up breakpoints
that literally fixes the bug
so idk if somehow this is a multithreading issue???
all i want is to right my wrongs and figure out a real fix for this issue and not a crappy bandaid fix
:(
chilly nova
does it happen under windbg ttd
rich moat
i don't know what that is
fast terrace
cl_predict just snaps back to 1, although i did try setting cl_predictweapons 0 ...
sv_client_predict 0
rich moat
thank you
well thats interesting, without prediction the sound just doesn't play, like at all
i guess that makes sense? without prediction it just only relies on what the server says the value is?
tight nexus
halve the max volume pls
eternal jungle
does it happen under windbg ttd
Wait that isnt linux
rich moat
how do i make windbg not make tf2 run at 1 frame every 4 seconds
rich moat
😭
wheat herald
will all todos and fixmes be fixed in the code or never...
chilly nova
when you fix them
high wigeonBOT
@chilly nova has earned the pro role!
chilly nova
wow awesome
wheat herald
when you fix them
never id rather rewrite tf2 in a different language
clever creekBOT
chilly nova
3
barren glacier
Were the choppy animations in the Class Select screen ever fixed?
Or am I crazy and is it some issue on my end
shell temple
all experimental balance changes from today have been reverted now
shell temple
Were the choppy animations in the Class Select screen ever fixed?
still an issue
eternal jungle
Can custom huds fix it
shell temple
no
barren glacier
still an issue
Ah alright, some reason I thought it got fixed in the previous TC2 from the leaked code
shell temple
its like an animation code bug
eternal jungle
I got it on the default hud but pretty sure on m0rehud all animations were good
but idk
rich moat
:/
chilly nova
?
rich moat
its so large
chilly nova
well it's not like it has to trace the entire application
did you hit the issue when you were running it
rich moat
don't think so but its kind of hard to get a good test when it runs so slowly
chilly nova
then it won't have it
rich moat
its been trying to load the run file for like 5 minutes
silver sorrel
<@115180582845153282> is there any interest in a subtick port to tf2
ok.... how tf
rich moat
they should simply make better and faster debugging tools
this sucks
@dusky sapphire erm, check the channel name
dusky sapphire
OH SHIT
chilly nova
epic fail
dusky sapphire
sorry xd
rich moat
leaked
chilly nova
banned
rich moat
doxxed
rich moat
its been trying to load the run file for like 5 minutes
still waiting
its doing something i presume, its using my CPU and the rame usage is slowly going up
rich moat
i'm not waiting any longer this is stupid lmao
doing this the old fashioned way (this has literally been the most helpful piece of information so far)
eternal jungle
To check private backpacks
I looked into it and I don't think it works like this
It looks like the client requests the ticket from steam and inventory from web api and forwards the desired loadout and ticket to the server who forwards it to api to ask if it's legit
I'm kinda stupid though so maybe I misunderstood how it works
But I think at most you'd be limited to getting the backpacks of clients who connected to your server and sent you their ticket, not just any random account, and probably you can just get their desired loadout rather than full backpack (didn't look into that yet though)
Also the loadouts are per app and tickets get invalidated after a new one is generated so you couldn't mess with someone's loadout in real tf2 or change it by replaying messages or anything
And can't simply spoof app id to real tf2, it's enforced in another place also, probably either in gcsdk or steam binaries
rich moat
gonna take a wild shot in the dark here and say that the issue with the vacc is partially that PrimaryAttack() gets called several times in a single tick with the same charge value, although oddly even though it was called 3 times in 1 tick it only hit the sound twice
umbral siren
you're not stupid
rich moat
calling PrimaryAttack several times seems normal, but in this case it doesn't interact well
hm actually i might have messed up this check a bit i didn't make the print client only
eternal jungle
yes
rich moat
you can compile it yourself
or download it from the itch app and then play it from the exe
rich moat
or that
chilly nova
although then you won't get auto updates
eternal jungle
sounds like a feature
rich moat
hm actually i might have messed up this check a bit i didn't make the print clie...
I guess in theory this is probably like 1 call for the server, and then 2+ for the client (which would explain why the sound only plays twice)
frozen hound
sounds like a feature
so i would just have to download the .zip again and replace files to update?
edit: replied to wrong message whoops
chilly nova
sounds like a feature
feature (nobody will join your servers)
chilly nova
what if mastercoms adds more backdoors
what about the ones i'm gonna slip in
frozen hound
okay ill try launcher thanks for the help
eternal jungle
But yeah the web api items stuff is actually implemented quite well for such a random thing they released seemingly on a whim
It's clear it wasn't just lazily thrown together
Whoever made it put quite some thought into it
chilly nova
also it's pretty likely they've been working on this for quite a while
rich moat
hypothesis proven, on the right track :)
clever creekBOT
eternal jungle
I mean there are probably bugs in it but at least they made an effort to do things in a correct way
wheat herald
doing this the old fashioned way (this has literally been the most helpful piece...
what am i looking at
chilly nova
team fortress 2 developer console
eternal jungle
what am i looking at
rich moat
debug prints for when the PrimaryAttack() function is called on the medigun
eternal jungle
Hope this helps
chilly nova
medigun is FUCKED UP
rich moat
to figure out why the vaccinator sometimes blows your eardrums out
clever creekBOT
chilly nova
(it's a feature)
rich moat
occasionally (more than occasionally) when you get a new charge with the vaccinator it will play the specified noise 2 or more times
at once
i've seen up to like 7 at once while testing alone
chilly nova
oh wait is the client playing the sound from PrimaryAttack
wheat herald
have you tried disabling the sound?
chilly nova
is it just getting repredicted multiple times or something
rich moat
probably
chilly nova
cause it would make sense that primaryattack gets called for that
rich moat
have you tried disabling the sound?
i'm sorry but the only way I could do that is if I also lowered the max FOV to 75
chilly nova
and then it plays the sound cause of that, ignoring the fact that it shouldn't be played
idk i'm talking out of my ass
rich moat
that sounds about right from what I can tell
wheat herald
i'm sorry but the only way I could do that is if I also lowered the max FOV to 7...
okay dont fix it, vaccinator users should suffer anyways
clever creekBOT
rich moat
lmao
but yeah I figured it was a netcode thing when i first fixed this issue in 2022, but for the wrong reasons
chilly nova
can you tell if you're in a prediction environment, and skip the sound if you are
rich moat
I assumed at first it was getting like backtracked due to a prediction error but it seems like its just that the function is called more than once
rich moat
can you tell if you're in a prediction environment, and skip the sound if you ar...
uhhh maybe
chilly nova
can you get a backtrace from it
rich moat
can you get a backtrace from it
wdym, like a stracktrace?
chilly nova
yes
rich moat
uhhh yeah I should, the bug didn't seem to happen when i had a breakpoint enabled but for this it might be fine
wheat herald
is it reproducable with demos?
rich moat
do demos use prediction?
wheat herald
nno
rich moat
then probably not
rich moat
I'd assume not since they'd know what the next tick is but idk much abou tit
chilly nova
idk i haven't checked
rich moat
????
breakpoints i guess just completely break prediction or something
I was mostly only getting 1 call per tick with the break point and then randomly i got 6 with different charge values in the same tick?
also all of the calls to this function i could get it seems like are from CPrediction::RunPostThink
chilly nova
if you log prediction->IsFirstTimePredicted() what does it say
frozen hound
I just installed tc2 via the itch.io app, and oh my gosh, the fact that you don't have to have a buttload of disk space for a mod... you just need vanilla tf2 installed is so... good!!!
chilly nova
if you log `prediction->IsFirstTimePredicted()` what does it say
actually just wrap the emitsound calls in a check for this and see what happens
rich moat
oh this could work
aaaaa it works
thank you for your help
oh hey and while I was testing this I found a different (easier) bug with the vacc
if you have 1 or more charges and swap to the medigun it starts playing the default medigun charge noise
I'm not sure if valve wants the vacc to have that noise, but they seem to go out of their way to use similar, but different code for the vacc sounds
although its interesting, since for the first charge they go out of their way to use m_pChargedSound and a sound controller, same as they do for stock medigun, but for the other 3 they just use emit sound
emitsound is global i think
oh I think I see what they tried (and mostly succeeded) to do
for other medics when they get 25% it plays the whole ubercharge sound and voiceline stuff, and then the next 3 charges don't play a sound for other people
ok and now it works fine for me
odd
hm i'm actually not sure if they intended for the vaccinator to have the like audible noise that the mediguns have when they have uber or not
like they have it and it works fine for other medics but for yourself its really inconsistent and weird
the decision to use m_pChargedSound for both (and their respective checks to see if the value is null) seems intentional, implying that they didn't want it for vaccinator
rich moat
I see 2 options here
- They wanted the vaccinator to only use its own sounds, but improperly set up preventing the client not playing the sound (and forgot about all the server code).
This is supported by the fact that they use the same variable for what sound to play (only for the first charge) and set up a sound controller with a player filter even though its client only code - They wanted to keep some of the regular uber sounds but improperly set that up on the client's end so it still can under specific conditions
This is supported by the fact that the code that plays the regular noise when the player has an ubercharge available has no references to the vaccinator at all, aside from arguably the check to see if the sound is null or not
I'm leaning towards the first one even though I kind of doubt they'd just forget about server code
I suppose there's also the question of just audio clarity
regular uber noises would be more recognizable, so from a gameplay perspective just knowing if a medic has an uber, even if you don't know what type (plus the extremely noticeable vaccinator icons over someone's head so you know its a vaccinator), is still helpful to know
but on the other hand with the 25% uber charge minimum and increased ubercharge rate it kind of just means that the medic will almost always be playing the uber noises
I think a poll is in order
tl;dr explanation of answers
- should be self explanatory, the vaccinator will only make its specific noises for everyone
- What is currently in the game, arguably a bug. While the medic hears the vaccinator specific noises, as soon as they hit 25% charge they begin to make the regular medigun charged noise to everyone around them.
- Same as above, but with the addition of adding the regular medigun charged noise for the medic as well, to let them know that they have a charge (and also that they're making that noise). Technically also current behavior, but only under specific circumstances (after swapping to the medigun with 1 or more charges it begins to play the noise for the medic as well)
mortal gate
tl;dr explanation of answers
1. should be self explanatory, the vaccinator will ...
This sounds like the kind of thing that old Valve would have play tested to determine what was the best way to craft a sound.
rich moat
I agree but the code and behavior is very inconsistent
mortal gate
Actually come to think of it, what was the behavior of the Medigun sounds for the other mediguns.
rich moat
its the same
mortal gate
I know Quick-Fix has unique sounds but I forgot if the Kritzkrieg does.
clever creekBOT
mortal gate
Okay looking it up, Kritzkrieg doesn't seem to have unique audio effects, aside from the different sound of the uber when it's activated.
rich moat
quick-fix has unique sounds but it still plays the same passive "medic has 100%" noise as the rest of them
mortal gate
I see 2 options here
1. They wanted the vaccinator to only use its own sounds, b...
I think the real answer is the "Valve-ified answer", which is to say that they probably tried to play test heavily to determine what had the best way of notifying all players without confusing players, if that makes any sense.
mortal gate
quick-fix has unique sounds but it still plays the same passive "medic has 100%"...
I think what stands out is that the vaccinator has an unique mechanic uber-charge that stands out from the rest of the medi guns.
That probably indicates that you probably want to have some sort of sound indication but also you don't want it to be too intrusive. At least that's my guess.
Since Kritzkrieg has the same sound effects but the "Uber Ready" sound remains the same until it's activated, then it has a different sound for Uber.
rich moat
probably, in which case the question at this point is if I should fix it so that the vaccinator always plays the passive noise once it has a charge (current behavior if you swap to the vaccinator while you already have a charge), just making it so that it always does so without requiring a swap, or disabling it entirely to match the behavior before swapping
mortal gate
Quick-Fix has different sound effects while healing but I presume they wanted players to know that it had a faster healing rate.
So my guess is that you want to indicate something's different with the ubercharge of a Vaccinator, but not so much that it gets intrusive.
rich moat
its worth noting as well that the passive sound is actually the same sound as the much more distinct louder sound that happens right when you get 100%, just looped after that point
this sound is the one i'm talking about
it just loops the static, rather than the initial noise
the initial noise probably would also cover up the vaccinator's first unique charge noise (it has different ones for getting each charge)
mortal gate
The thing is that the vaccinator gets charge so quickly that it might get too grating on other players if a new charge keeps happening each time.
rich moat
thats what i'm thinking
mortal gate
If I had to guess, that may have came up in playtesting.
The code was commented out, wasn't it?
rich moat
ok hm weird this time when i got the 1st charge it played the normal one
none of the code was commented out
mortal gate
I'd say that if you really want to change it, it'd need to have playtesting to determine player feelings on it.
rich moat
The thing is that the vaccinator gets charge so quickly that it might get too gr...
also for what its worth, i'm not talking about playing the sound everytime, just for the first charge
which matches how it sounds for other people currently
charges 2-4 make no sound for other players, this is very clearly intentional
mortal gate
Ah. That probably may be a good idea, but I dunno. Like I said, this probably should be playtested and not just added as a "fix".
rich moat
yeah, thats partially why I was hoping for a poll before i submitted a PR for playtesting
mortal gate
My thought is that unique mechanics should have their own SFX as consistent with the rest of TF2.
rich moat
I was going to wait until after playtesting before potentially submitting this as a PR to the SDK, which i probably should've mentioned
mortal gate
That's why years later, the Frontier Justice recieved unique SFX.
clever creekBOT
mortal gate
I'm trying to remember what other weapons got retroactive unique SFX years after their update.
rich moat
the original got one but that was because the sounds already existed and were unused
mortal gate
Family Business and Winger got new sounds in that update too.
rich moat
hm actually now that i'm doing more testing in vanilla tf2, i'm not sure this isn't partially an SDK bug?
I can't get it to play the first vaccinator charge noise, at all, it only plays the stock one
mortal gate
hm actually now that i'm doing more testing in vanilla tf2, i'm not sure this is...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ar3VndoBhE should be playing it according to the weapon demostration
high wigeonBOT
@mortal gate has leveled up! (39 ➜ 40)
mortal gate
I've been rewatching the waepon demostrations made by the tf2 wiki as a reference.
rich moat
heh the loud vacc charge noise happens in this video
that was the start of this whole thing
there is a unique sound for the 1st vacc charge, as with the rest of them
clever creekBOT
rich moat
following their logic with smth like the original it would make sense to use that, but this is a much different and more important game mechanic
mortal gate
That means a TF2 update broke something in between the demo and now. Fun times.
mortal gate
following their logic with smth like the original it would make sense to use tha...
I mean, all the rocket launchers have unique SFX to my knowledge.
rich moat
no i don't think an update broke this, since in the video it plays the regular uber noise for the first charge
mortal gate
And even the jumpers eventually got unique sound effects to them, so yeah. I'd say by Valve game principals that there should be an unique sound for unique mechanics. Just make sure it isn't too annoying and/or obnoxious.
I'm reminded of how everything in Dota 2 has unique sounds even if the effects get recycled, the soundwork has always been top-tier.
rich moat
I'm leaning towards vacc only noises for medic, standard for others, simply for the passive noise
I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about constantly hearing the passive noise from vacc medics
granted vacc is not a particularly common medigun
in the end i'll probably split this into 2 PRs, one for the one that is definitely bug fix (preventing the vacc charge noise from playing more than once per frame), and this one, more just to explain what the potential issue is, the potential fixes are, and what valve can decide on
eternal jungle
Just patch it with fiendhook
rich moat
real
fossil vault
The real solution is removing the vaccinator
shell temple
The real solution is removing the vaccinator
vaccinator rework though
shell temple
half the damage now, half the damage later (non-lethal)
@chilly nova use $OSTYPE
== "linux" for linux, "msys" for windows
fast terrace
half the damage now, half the damage later (non-lethal)
finally karma effect in tf2
flat perch
fellas i have a error whenver i try to launch tc2
sour sedge
half the damage now, half the damage later (non-lethal)
Convert all damage to damage over time
shell temple
activating vaccinator gives a 50 damage barrier to the damage type
young osprey
Hey there, I have a question? Does Team Comtress 2 will ever touch localization files in any capacity? and if so, to what lengths? Would it just limit to fixes or full on improvements like community item descriptions or new tips for the class selection screen? I've been working on the French side of the tf2 wiki for quite a few years now and have been wanting to touch up the game's localisation files for French and English for some time now. Especially the French side since it's not very good in it's current state. There's a lot of errors and a lot of items never even received proper translation at all.
tight nexus
Coms not wanting to bother you but is it the only way or the easiest way?
I believe that a proper high max value should be ok for like 70% of people
shell temple
I believe that a proper high max value should be ok for like 70% of people
we dont have sound engine code
shell temple
Hey there, I have a question? Does Team Comtress 2 will ever touch localization ...
its planned i think but only for english atm
young osprey
Cool, prehaps I could provide I file here with several ideas for improuvements if it's not too much once I am done with it?
shell temple
sure!
terse plaza
would u be able to infer by these images how much im looking forward to the dedicated server patches
ruby cape
Nativevotes won't work literally 1987
umbral siren
Nativevotes won't work literally 1987
chilly nova
#dev-log📻 message i cant believe mastercoms is stealing my changes smh my head
tight nexus
we dont have sound engine code
Maybe not that way but perhaps a hacky way? Limiting the max value of the slider in the options menu
shell temple
like kisak said, no reason to limit it
young osprey
My first major localization contribution.^^ Includes further refined class selection screen tip, dozens of descriptions for a lot of items and weapons who had support for it (more of that incoming), and proper strings for Medieval, VSH and zombie infection to be used in case it's ever planned to moved theses mods out of the Misc section they are currently rotting in.
I'm especially pround of the item descriptions for the Voodoo cursed souls, I tried to remain as close to tf2's writing style and humor as I could. Next up on my list is total revamp of the tips appearing on the loading screen when joining a game, adding some actually helpfull advice, some bits of lore here and there, as well as few nods to community contributions such as the wiki or comics. (yet very subtle)
chilly nova
i hope you're having a good morning rebasing commits
barren beacon
If we are suggesting balance changes, here's my only one
Give pyro the jetpack as a passive
jumping in the air launches him with the jetpack boost
Only 1 charge though
same cooldown
umbral siren
good morning team comtress crew
crew? are we in a pirate ship?
sour sedge
activating vaccinator gives a 50 damage barrier to the damage type
Mmm actually not a bad idea but 50 is kinda low
ruby arrow
crew? are we in a pirate ship?
yes
chilly nova
piracy? 🙀
sour sedge
Mmm actually not a bad idea but 50 is kinda low
100hp shield, with no stacking/no multiple types?
tight nexus
Give spy a 20% jump boost
umbral siren
give spy a british accent
ruby arrow
give spy a bomb
umbral siren
he already has one
tight nexus
It just doesn't do damage
charred shadow
@shell temple
An idea ive been thinking about
What if in mvm, explosive headshot would scale with zoom charge rather than just a static value
Potentially either a damage or aoe radius scale (or both idk)
Might make charge speed more useful, while also bringing other sniper rifles to a more even playing field with heatmaker (and would make bazaar and sydney more impactful)
chilly nova
hm
eternal jungle
replay fortress
chilly nova
round coyote
vaccinator rework though
Please don't nerf the Vaccinator..
round coyote
It's over hated.
chilly nova
but still overpowered
round coyote
It really isn't...
eternal jungle
Delete the vaccinator
ruby arrow
Vaccinator is a great tool against cheaters
round coyote
What I'd more recommend is just to bring back items that have been nerfed and are horrible like the bison l, Sandman, buffalo steak, Heavys stock fists, rocket jumper.
Loke buffing horrible weapons.
We don't need more removal of good items.
chilly nova
the vacc is really unfun to fight
ruby arrow
the vacc is really unfun to fight
Yes this is true
jaunty fractal
So.... if you disable SteamHTTP, the Ticket is incorrect and not authorized....
just great
ruby arrow
Maybe it's healing should be nerfed?
jaunty fractal
dedicated servers are FUCKED
chilly nova
the vacc is really unfun to fight
it's super easy to completely shut down an enemy for little cost because the uber is so cheap
round coyote
No overheal with vac
That would make it a useless item...
chilly nova
and you can stack multiple resistances
ruby arrow
No it would give it a cost to use
chilly nova
plus the crit resistance
round coyote
Regardless, I'm not here to argue.
eternal jungle
So.... if you disable SteamHTTP, the Ticket is incorrect and not authorized....
Well the server uses steam http to contact the tf2 web api
round coyote
I'm just saying instead of focusing on ruining items, like Vavlve did in the last updates. Instead we should buff the terrible ones. It gas been over a decade 😒 and we shouldn't nerf really anything.
eternal jungle
but the server has nothing to do with the ticket
client is the one who gets the ticket for their loadout request and sends it to server
server just forwards it to web api to ask if it's okay
round coyote
Besides, the vaccinator is not even meta.
clever creekBOT
round coyote
You just don't like it.
jaunty fractal
Well the server uses steam http to contact the tf2 web api
yeah... but problem is SteamAPI isn't properly initialized
eternal jungle
I mean you could avoid using steam entirely if you wanted
and just change it to use some other library for http requests
jaunty fractal
requiring injecting
eternal jungle
the code is open though
jaunty fractal
2° if you're going to host server without steam client running in background, well.... nope
chilly nova
do you need to inject or can you just init steamapi when the server dll is loaded
eternal jungle
If you wanted you could just completely change steam http to something else
in tf_gc_server.cpp
or fix steam init
either way works
jaunty fractal
maybe there's different way, but sadly i haven't succedeed in starting the steamapi
init just hangs
eternal jungle
either way works
(for web api I mean, I'm sure steam is needed for other things)
shell temple
Please don't nerf the Vaccinator..
not nerfing it, reworking
shell temple
Mmm actually not a bad idea but 50 is kinda low
remember theres charges, so 200 max
rich moat
Besides, the vaccinator is not even meta.
meta is unrelated to fun
chilly nova
@shell temple do you want me to make the action automatically push to itch?
shell temple
ill do that I think
chilly nova
k
also i only realized just now that the ccache action stuff is broken and doesn't actually get saved
or at least i think it is
because the cache stats are shockingly low
it'll still build everything correctly, but i'll take longer
wheat herald
Vaccinator is a great tool against cheaters
this is the only thing it's actually good for holy shit
round coyote
not nerfing it, reworking
What rework will you do..?
I personally really like the Vaccinator
and really don't want to see it's gimmick and identity destroyed
like a lot of people have been very loud about recently...
chilly nova
it's just not a fun weapon to fight at all
i say this as someone who uses it far more than i have to fight it
wheat herald
it's really really not a fun weapon to use
chilly nova
it's a very fun weapon to use actually
wheat herald
constantly fingering the keys with your keyboard constantly sucks
just super clunky and cumbersome imo
chilly nova
yeah the controls aren't great
but the concept is really fun, and if you can get past the controls it's also pretty fun to use imo
round coyote
No, it is very fun to use.
And honestly to fight?
It isn't that "unfun".
If you nerf things according to how "unfun" they are.
I guess we are saying goodbye to afterburn killing people.
Airblast, Soldier's splash damage, sticky spam, and other things.
shell temple
What rework will you do..?
did you read the above where i said what?
round coyote
That is not how balance should work.
round coyote
did you read the above where i said what?
I did not sorry.
shell temple
unfun is fine
unfun with no counterplay is not
and rock paper scissors balance shouldn't be part of tf2
round coyote
unfun with no counterplay is not
It... does have counterplay...
Several actually...
shell temple
sure, there's natural counters but you shouldn't really be forced to
round coyote
. Melee
. Pyro
. Waiting 2.5 seconds..?
. Shotgun (for Soldier and Pyro)
. Neon + Gas passer
. Bushwacker
. several other things
Sorry but I cannot find the rework.
Only talks about "sound cues".
round coyote
and waiting 2.5 seconds isnt an interesting decision
In my opinion, instead of nerfing the resistance of the vaccinator..
I would suggest a different approach. As even I can admit, it's hard to counter.
A change a little more unique.
shell temple
read what i said then 😊
round coyote
I have no idea where it is.
spark birch
round coyote
read what i said then 😊
Can you.. show me..?
I cannot find it.
shell temple
half the damage now, half the damage later (non-lethal)
here
shell temple
activating vaccinator gives a 50 damage barrier to the damage type
and here
spark birch
So long as everything is up for change and improvement over multiple iterations, there shouldn't be any issues in the long run.
round coyote
🤔
So to get it clear...
Activating the Vaccinator will give a 50 damage shield (shield meaning you take zero damage from that damage type until it passes 50 damage) to that damage type and..? Any further damage from that damage type is giving to you and the healing target slowly over time? (For those 2.5 seconds)
charred shadow
. Melee
. Pyro
. Waiting 2.5 seconds..?
. Shotgun (for Soldier and Pyro)
. Neon ...
I would not consider melee to be vacc counterplay
All medis are vulnerable to melee outside of stock uber
Also neon and gas as a legitimate counter bro be serious 💀
chilly nova
counter you can use once in a million years
and have to sacrifice your secondary and melee for
charred shadow
All of these “counters” are just coping in disadvantage state
shell temple
🤔
So to get it clear...
Activating the Vaccinator will give a 50 damage shield ...
yes 50 damage shield for that damage type which doesnt expire, and then as a passive effect it delays half the damage of that damage type to non lethal damage over time
charred shadow
Like yeah man im gonna jarate bushwacka the beggars vacc pocket
shell temple
so it'll be like
100 damage pipe, you're healing with explosive resist
you take 50 damage immediately
then after 1 second, you take 10 damage per second over 5 seconds (50 more damage)
but let's say youre 100hp
they would have to pipe you twice to kill you
because the damage over time will never kill you
can leave you at 1hp
this is more interesting imo because it doesn't just blanket raise effective HP to a damage type
but still raises kill thresholds in moment to moment gameplay
a reasonable amount of focus fire will kill you, instead of just massively scaling the damage you can take
harsh hemlock
mcoms, could you fix this bug in specific? it annoys me so much :(((((
clever creekBOT
shell temple
and like, this is 50% resist immediately
round coyote
yes 50 damage shield for that damage type which doesnt expire, and then as a pas...
🤔
shell temple
so it's a theoretical buff but also allows focus fire to actually counter instead of it feeling like a damage sponge
then the uber is much simpler now, it applies a shield which blocks damage
round coyote
so it's a theoretical buff but also allows focus fire to actually counter instea...
So lets say you place a "50 damage shield" on someone.
And then disconnect, does that shield stay on that person until it is used.?
Indefinitely?
shell temple
yes it pads their hp by 50 basically
round coyote
and like, this is 50% resist immediately
50% or 50 hp..?
shell temple
im talking about 2 different things
shell temple
the active charge of the vacc
round coyote
Like of different damage types.
round coyote
o-o
shell temple
you can stack the same damage type or different
round coyote
Wow that actually does sounds pretty awesome.
round coyote
Not gonna lie, that is by far the greatest rework idea I've ever heard.
shell temple
well yeah
round coyote
Everyone else I've heard who wants to "rework it" wants to shove it in the ground.
shell temple
im epic 😎
round coyote
Or just make it a stock reskin.
shell temple
trust the process, mcoms will fix it
round coyote
🤨 👍
Not gonna lie, I'm kind of impressed.
This actually has some upsides over the vanilla one.
round coyote
trust the process, mcoms will fix it
So I assume the max stacking of shields is 4 right?
shell temple
depends on how many charges you get
round coyote
Of which you can mix and match any damage type to block per each 50.
shell temple
i guess there is an exploit where you could charge shields up like in spawn
over and over
so id say maybe shield lasts for 60 seconds
round coyote
It's like saying Uber in spawn is an exploit..?
shell temple
well
you could stack 10000 shields technically
lol
a reasonable expiration time of like, maybe 60 seconds, around there, should be good
round coyote
Oh.
I think a better idea instead of shields go away is just to put that shields are stacked very slowly during set up time.
round coyote
a reasonable expiration time of like, maybe 60 seconds, around there, should be ...
I feel the "the shield doesn't go away on it's own" is it's biggest appeal.
So taking tha away kind of.. ruins it I think.
I'd honestly prefer you just put that you simply cannot put shields in set up time over that...
shell temple
yeah but like
think about it like this
instead of capping the amount of shields
theres an effective cap per medic
because you can get charge only so fast
round coyote
So like "this much can be active at a time"?
shell temple
and you can keep restocking the shields
yeah its basically that but like
it takes how many seconds for a vacc charge? 20?
i think full charges takes 70 or 80 or something
idk
so like
if the shields expire in 60 seconds
then its basically, you can't make a 500 damage shield
by sitting in spawn and reapplying shield over and over
round coyote
then its basically, you can't make a 500 damage shield
I think simply removing putting shields in set up is a better idea..
The shields not expiring is to me this things biggest appeal...
A play cap? That's fine.
A medic max cap? That's okay as well.
Removing shielding in set up? Sure
But expiring shields..?
It means that you still have to stick around the medic.
To constantly refresh it.
vivid crow
so all Spring Cleaning update changes will be PR'd to the Source SDK repo? @shell temple
shell temple
so all Spring Cleaning update changes will be PR'd to the Source SDK repo? <@115...
yes though PRs are on hold until i get a better guarantee of the time investment actually meaning something
though unlike the old tc2 patches
my work actually has value outside of depending on valve
vivid crow
👍🏼
shell temple
I think simply removing putting shields in set up is a better idea..
The shields...
i mean 60 seconds is pretty generous though
round coyote
i mean 60 seconds is pretty generous though
🤔 That is true, but I feel it's still an issue...
Just placing either a "cap" of like 4, or six or just disabling it in set up is much better..
Because the biggest appeal of this medi gun is lets say someone goes to the medic, gets a shield and then does their own thing.
shell temple
yeah though if theyre in combat theyre gonna lose before the 60s anyway
clever creekBOT
round coyote
I mean sure. But it matters anyways.
People will instead of "Wow, I got this epic shield" will now be "oh no, now I have to make use of this shield before it goes away".
shell temple
so its really just a prevention for adding more than ~6 charges of shield per medic
round coyote
I'd know, I use the dalokas bar as my main secondary.
And sure, but Dalokas bar 50 health is 30 seconds instead of 60. But that's health, not "a shield to one specific damage type".
round coyote
so its really just a prevention for adding more than ~6 charges of shield per me...
Then just put a cap..?
shell temple
its less interesting to put a hard cap imo
round coyote
That way you solve the problem without harming it's biggest appeal.
round coyote
its less interesting to put a hard cap imo
🤔 Just disable shields in spawn..?
charred shadow
I mean sure. But it matters anyways.
People will instead of "Wow, I got this epi...
isnt this how the vacc already works
round coyote
That solves both issues without harming each side.
shell temple
no like its not just spawn
like a medic could just hide somewhere with a buddy
spend half the match charging up a 2000 damage shield
then be invincible basically
round coyote
no like its not just spawn
If a medic hides in a corner with a buddy, that's two people not fighting for half a match.. That is never worth it...
shell temple
eh idk
round coyote
And if "shield drain" effectively does the exact same thing as "hard cap". Than why mention that it is less interesting?
charred shadow
I think for a rework this sweeping, it might be better to try it for yourself, as something in practice can be very different than on paper
shell temple
because it doesnt add an arbitrary limit, it can be worked around with faster uber rate in mvm, stacking more medics
yeah that too
we can talk for ages about it
but its much more important to play
i havent gotten to medic yet
i think engie is next for playing around
round coyote
It is infact less interesting with a drain..?
I don't know about you, but as the medic and as the receiver. I'd much prefer giving out shields which people can then walk away from me and just have their nice shield rather than constantly coming back to me for their shield back.
shell temple
have done spy and sniper funny stuff
round coyote
It would be more annoying to the medic than fun if they went away by themself.
charred shadow
It is infact less interesting with a drain..?
I don't know about you, but as the...
are we living in a bizarro world where vacc bubbles already dont last like 2 seconds
round coyote
NOOOOO!O!!!
charred shadow
lol