open
#Team Fortress 2 Megathread - winter is the most chill time of year
kind falcon
potent wolf
rare creek
it will be reverse engineered for real this time we swear
potent wolf
it will be reverse engineered for real this time we swear
yeah like tc2 
potent wolf
yeah like tc2 <:trollfig:938154442484777111>
jk it's all from the alien swarm sdk
glass musk
wintry marlin
Just watched this video and it's snazzy. King looks really good with it.
rugged ridge
Is it possible or viable for an actual TF2 Source 2 port?
terse lintel
You can shoot hitboxes that go through gates due to animations BUT you can also shoot hitboxes that are still inside the collision hull and behind a wall under specific circumstances
eternal haven
Is it possible or viable for an actual TF2 Source 2 port?
What would you want to actually see out of this?
All it would really do is make the game run worse and invalidate everything the tf2 community has built thus far, requiring most of it to be built again if even possible
Like do people legitimately want tf2 to get the cs2 treatment?
potent wolf
lmao why is this asking me to edit the generated makefile directly 😭
eternal haven
You're telling me it's not recommended practice to make manual edits to autogenerated files ???
rare creek
years of hud editing wasted
velvet raft
jk it's all from the alien swarm sdk <:trollfig:938154442484777111>
i remember that game being good
summer steeple
All it would really do is make the game run worse and invalidate everything the ...
I mean we have quite a bit of evidence that they were working on some sort of layer to load source 1 content in source 2 while CS2 was still unreleased (or was in its "beta"), so in theory this wouldn't have happened
but also i'm not sure if they've even worked on it in a while, I feel like I've stopped hearing about datamined strings from s2 games
summer steeple
my sense of humor sucks this shouldn't have gotten any reaction out of me
potent wolf
my sense of humor sucks this shouldn't have gotten any reaction out of me
bottom
summer steeple
sh-shut up
unborn pecan
my sense of humor sucks this shouldn't have gotten any reaction out of me
for you
You would not like what I would say
frigid needle
#1072696252162117752 message
These results were on AMD
I remember at the time getting a couple friends on Nvidia cards to test it because I assumed it was an AMD issue
summer steeple
honestly I'm surprised they even thought about the soldier statues showing up in (valve) competitive
i guess community comp doesn't get the same privilege though
eternal haven
But that is nvidia on windows
Though yeah I guess it sounds like it affects everyone regardless of gpu, from what kindred says
There are several places in the code that do stuff only if picmip is positive, I suppose one of them must be overly slow for some reason
You could probably profile it to find out exactly which
frigid needle
I actually just double checked to be 100% sure but yeah my email receipt for this Nvidia card was after I made that post
Didn't know anyone else had even noticed it, just randomly came here and searched it to see if it had been seen for tc2
lyric phoenix
Though yeah I guess it sounds like it affects everyone regardless of gpu, from w...
repeatable 5% difference for me with an RDNA2 GPU on windows. mat_picmip 0 and -10 have identical performance, 2 is always 5% less in sbmark24 (DX9)
summer steeple
looks like at some point in time valve was either considering unranked (6s or highlander) or just casual matches with smaller team sizes
Ladder is valve comp btw
potent wolf
summer steeple
in the end it looks like they stripped out (or never implemented) anything other than 6s comp and 12v12 casual
although something that I left out of that screenshot but shouldn't have
is this
which as I'm just finding out still does have a surprising amount of code
judging by this list of strings I assume it probably was a baseline for tournaments, if they ever did them
for a couple reasons
2nd image specifically because that "true" is for a variable named bRequireRatingData
although looking at it now, i'm not entirely unsure that the "rating" data is actually the steam account rating that they've supposedly been working on
oh wait nvm
speculation of course, but this seems like potentially something that would've gotten built out into like an open tournament, where players of a specific rank or above could compete to potentially compete in a real tournament
like a qualifying event, but for the whole playerbase
i'm not too familiar with how valve handles competitive in their other games, its possible they already do this for CS and Dota
although it doesn't look like they actually check to see if you're above a specific rating, just that you have one, and in the state its in now its set to 12v12, so this didn't seem to get very far in development
potent wolf
gah why are CNetChan's members all public
and they're used by other parts of engine too 😭
summer steeple
oh hey the hud file they were planning to use (matchmakingdashboardeventmatch.res) still exists, but frankly I can't tell how finished it is without seeing it in game
it seems set up to just queue you for casual, show the mann up image, and show your casual badge, but it seems like that was all controlled in code actually, showing whichever rankpanel matches the match group (so casual badge for a casual event and comp rank for comp event?)
ok actually it seems like this could've been used for just any event they wanted to host
comp event, casual event, etc.
pretty open ended
jsut for reference, I"m about 95% sure this is not the same as the "events" like holidays
since those are part of the casual menu
this appears to be a completely separate thing
basically like events in like... every other live service pvp game ever
radiant merlin
yeah there was a 9v9 option in the comp beta
i remember
but it wasn't implemented
summer steeple
yeah I knew that, but this is the first I've heard of comp 12v12, or casual 6s and 9v9
summer steeple
well I thought this would end here but it turns out the event match enum and its hud files weren't added with MYM, they weren't even added in JI, they were added in blue moon
which honestly I think makes this really interesting
left sand
didnt we know all of this?
left sand
match groups for all of this were definitely in the leak
and besides that, they openly communicated all of this afaik
summer steeple
for casual and comp of different sizes yes but not for events
its possible that they did mention them at some point but I don't see it mentioned in the Blue Moon patch notes or news post
limpid panther
https://tenor.com/view/phoenix-wright-maya-fey-ace-attorney-ladder-step-ladders-...
Why would Moon Channel's moony say something like this
potent wolf
?
summer steeple
hm it looks like they had references to events in the EMatchmakingGroupType enum (in the leaked code), but the only place it was ever referenced was the "IsMapInValidCategory" function. s_pszGameModes in tf_item_schema had references to "event_mix" and "event_24_7" but there was no actual matchgroup or code for events
heavy solarBOT
@limpid panther has leveled up! (60 ➜ 61)
summer steeple
its possible that some of it was copy pasted from CS, but there's still quite a bit done to make it work for TF2
potent wolf
that character is the mascot of the "Moon Channel" YouTube channel
no it's maya fey
limpid panther
no it's maya fey
i know nothing about her otherwise
summer steeple
there's honestly enough code here that I feel like the game coordinator could just send out an event and it would just work without even needing an update
although it still would probably get one to add an image for it
small sirenBOT
radiant merlin
h265 moment
summer steeple
I wonder what sort of events valve would've run
radiant merlin
coms you should make a pr with your backstab detection improvements c:
limpid panther
But that is nvidia on windows
i was just ilustrating what you said with a nice graph showing the extent of the performance improvement
potent wolf
yes i know moon channel
but it's maya fey 😭
and this is phoenix wright crossed with a pokemon
i forget which one
limpid panther
YOOOOO THIS VIDEO JUST TOOK A TURN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl2vf04UCAM&t=1306
WHAT THE FUCK
potent wolf
i know nothing about her otherwise
blocked
left sand
Where are people getting their hitsounds nowadays?
and if it's not comfig hits, then why not
rare creek
gamebanana because it's what they're used to and they dont know about comfig hits
unborn pecan
gamebanana
slender nexus
gamebanana the goat
left sand
if you use gamebanana, can you say why
slender nexus
cuz it's what i used to use back when gun skins and remodels were more widespread
also cuz most huds were originally hosted there iirc
small sirenBOT
left sand
so its just a habit?
uncut spear
I remember checking the hitsounds on comfig and a good chunk of them felt like outdated memes
like I think a kill sound was just the air horn like we're back in mlg days
this was a while ago tho
I've seen a good variety of sounds on gamebanana for the most part
even stuff that gave me inspiration to make my own
(well more taking an idea already done and making it better)
small sirenBOT
uncut spear
considering how much I use gamebanana and check on it surprisingly often where hit and kill sounds are posted anyways, it's def convenient
left sand
that's fair
though tbh, the airhorn and stuff you're talking about was on the front page because i didnt have good sorting for sounds
now theres more variety
but its true because the uploads havent changed in years
uncut spear
I'd find it worth checking now esp cause sometimes on gamebanana, the quality of hit and kill sounds can be dog shit
or it's a diy situation which feels unnecessary
like here's an mp3 that you need to cut yourself in audacity have fun :P
like is it hard to just make the right files and put them in a little folder if need be?
left sand
yeah on comfig hits its always in the right format
also in ADPCM which is a special compressed format to save space 😊
uncut spear
omg like Nintendo music. . .
(pretty sure that's the same compression the game files can have even their more recent stuff)
left sand
bspsrc supports visclusters? also this obviously would effect compile times, i dont think its a fair comparison
summer steeple
relatively recent change (1.4.6, released sep 30 2024), I didn't think there were too many on upward but there actually are, I can test it tomorrow
I was so happy when I got that email, I made an issue post about how they could be reconstructed in july of 2023
summer steeple
looks like they never updated the readme
summer steeple
maybe?
I'm not actually sure how they do the reconstruction, since it is true that VBSP consumes the entity
uhhhh, looks like its essentially just that they create a bbox around the clustered visleafs
soft sundial
Ive had no problems with bspsrc reconstructing func visclusters with any decompile
summer steeple
I don't think it would work correctly with visclusters that use multiple brushes on one entity
but I think those are kind of rare
depends on the mapper i guess
and the map
just looking at the portal file from the last compile i did of upward with these visclusters their placement definitely looks very targeted towards "bad" areas
hmmm i'll need to check this in game tomorrow, this looks wrong
i doubt they'd actually do this
soft sundial
you could compare with the leaked upward vmf
summer steeple
good idea, i forgot about that
oh yeah thats way off lol
I wonder why
granted its possible that my portal file is simply just different from the valve one due to decompile issues
like I could in theory see how a different portal file could cause the extents of the viscluster to seem much larger than they actually are
and also just that visclusters don't have to cover an entire visleaf
but when you're reconstructing them you only have those visleafs
still, better than nothing, you can always pare it down to be more reasonable
high current
Where are people getting their hitsounds nowadays?
I think people tend to change their hitsound less than huds for some reason. Last time I changed mine was 2018 and I think before that I changed it around 2014. I’ve just transferred hitsounds from pc to pc since then. I forget what the main source was before it went down, I think it was like hits.tf, jingles.tf, or dingalings.tf or something.
I know a lot of people tend to change huds pretty much annually, and then there’s a handful of people that do it like daily.
The biggest reason I never just redownload my hitsound is that hitsound sits end up being sooooo cluttered that even if you’re looking for something common like a quake hitsound, you have to sift through like 30 different shit posted versions to find the one that you were looking for.
rare creek
Do they know
radiant merlin
he knows
glass musk
already rejected lol
rejected from what
he never said he wanted to have it merged into the main game
this can just be a mod 
eternal haven
that's just his opinion
Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man
wild grove
All this work when there already is a VR mode, its just abandoned LOL
tacit flare
Is there any benefit to this version over the offical? Other than Valve ain't ever going to touch it again?
slender nexus
Old version was designed for the rift iirc and no real work has been made to support or accommodate for new headsets plus the old version only supported keyboard/mouse for input
iirc
velvet raft
honestly I'm surprised they even thought about the soldier statues showing up in...
what does the function "void" do?
this is c++ right?
summer steeple
void means it returns nothing
you know how when you define a function you can put like "bool" or "int" to determine what value gets returned? you can also just make it not return any value with "void"
rare creek
i hope they figure out what to returg
summer steeple
the void
velvet raft
you know how when you define a function you can put like "bool" or "int" to dete...
just like isaac then
rare creek
is this what binding means in programming
velvet raft
you know how when you define a function you can put like "bool" or "int" to dete...
talking seriously, this actually great advice, thank you fiend
but in what cases would you need that?
summer steeple
when you don't need anything back from the function
maybe it just edits other pre-existing data
velvet raft
like when you need the cache of that function but maybe another function references it? so you make it return the value to void after a certain point
summer steeple
I mean honestly, if you're making a function it has a specific purpose, right? its sort of just like "do I need to get anything back from this function"
if no, set it to void
velvet raft
yeah that what i was thinking about, why would you need to use void if you wrote that function for something
potent wolf
some functions do something but dont produce a value as output, such as a function to print to the console
print would output to the screen, but there isnt a value to give back to the program
left sand
define void while being inclusive of void*
potent wolf
define void while being inclusive of void*
you cannot read or write a value of type void
summer steeple
in the case of the function in that image, CreateSoldierStatue, all it does is create a statue of the soldier during the soldier holiday (around rick may's birthday), there's no reason for the code that calls it to need to know if it succeeded or failed, and the game isn't doing anything else with the statue entity so it doesn't need to get back a reference to the entity or anything, so it just doesn't return anything.
left sand
you cannot read or write a value of type void
...while still being useful to a beginner
summer steeple
define void while being inclusive of void*
as soon as an * or & shows up i'm out, I barely understand them lol
like wdym there's a void*
I never learned about that
left sand
void means theres no type to what its referring to, in a function return type it means theres no return type, and thus returns nothing, in a void pointer, it means theres no type classification to the memory its pointing to
velvet raft
print would output to the screen, but there isnt a value to give back to the pro...
so you are telling me that the compiler doesn't void these type of functions automatically?
i thought they did
velvet raft
in the case of the function in that image, `CreateSoldierStatue`, all it does is...
ohhhhhhh
summer steeple
no the function still works as normal, it just doesn't return a value
velvet raft
value as "was the function executed successfully?" and not value like the user input of something like "put your age here"
i think i messed variables with values
summer steeple
i mean as far as I know those are both variables
variables are just stored data of any type
I could be wrong
velvet raft
well yeah, ig my head just organized them that way for some reason
summer steeple
ah
velvet raft
void means theres no type to what its referring to, in a function return type it...
what would it look like in another case that isn't "return"?
velvet raft
variables are just stored data of any type
i think i meant something like, the computer doing it's own checks of something functioning correctly and then separating it from any type of user input that wasn't the programmer itself
don't listen to me i can't make sense of what im saying because im learning the basics
eternal haven
as soon as an * or & shows up i'm out, I barely understand them lol
& (unary) gets the memory address of a variable
small sirenBOT
eternal haven
* dereferences a reference (uses its value as a memory address and gives you what is at that address)
summer steeple
well I know that but somehow it always manages to completely break in practice
eternal haven
:(
velvet raft
well I know that but somehow it always manages to completely break in practice
that happens to me with ";"
every single time
tacit flare
potent wolf
\* dereferences a reference (uses its value as a memory address and gives you wh...
how does void* dereference a void
eternal haven
Erm it's not an operator if you use it in a definition is it
potent wolf
erm i dont know c this doesnt make sense
eternal haven
But yeah if you use * in a declaration it's different than using the dereference operator *
left sand
anyone know the clockwise rule
potent wolf
anyone know the clockwise rule
i simply use programming languages with sane syntax
velvet raft
like JavaScript
kind falcon
https://youtu.be/esj2KvHqhgI?si=ieGUSrS9JIm1sMls
awesomesauce videogame
eternal haven
Does anyone know how the in game server browser queries the players on SDR servers
like what steam API function it calls
or does it directly query the server itself, through SDR?
summer steeple
it might be one of these? I'm not sure there's a lot of different networking related docs on the steamworks documentation
eternal haven
In the 2017 leak it's steamapicontext->SteamMatchmakingServers()->PlayerDetails() but I wasn't sure if that got changed with SDR or not
I guess it isn't too hard to check
potent wolf
I guess it isn't too hard to check
im deleting your copy of ida pro
eternal haven
Im stealing your binja license file
eternal haven
im deleting your copy of ida pro
Wow it's so readable
eternal haven
yeah
So I guess it's the same probably
it looks pretty much the same now as the leak
barren gulch
has anyone else noticed that you lose connection to the game coordinator and item server after a while on a listen server?
summer steeple
radiant merlin
sad thing of 50v50 is that i can't show off my wiki cap 😭
burnt dragon
sad thing of 50v50 is that i can't show off my wiki cap 😭
no cap frfr
radiant merlin
the first one is barely noticeable
rare creek
honestly the 2nd one is less noticable to me the first one is kinda obvious
maybe that's because the previews are smaller tho
radiant merlin
just in the big wall
wild grove
2nd image, the wires are just slightly darker
shadows are softer too but idk if that's just from the existing bicubic shadow thing.
summer steeple
this probably is me just not understanding how VRAD works but i'm not sure how much -extrapasses would help
there already is -bounces and honestly I think in most scenarios it doesn't even hit the default cap of 100 bounces before it runs out of light energy
i guess there is -extrasky which seems like its sort of the same principle as -extrapasses
as for bicubic lightmap filtering on lightmapped props, I mean the bicubic filtering in general is a godsend so having it on props is nice too
although lightmapped props are kinda dookie anyway
they use the same UV map as the texture of the prop so if you have any overlapping uvs it gets inaccurate lighting
and they don't support normalmaps or phong
radiant merlin
valve should implement this https://web.archive.org/web/20230319035111/https://www.counter-strike.net/workshop/workshopmaps#normal_mapped
left sand
valve should port tf2 to source 2
but i dont think theyll do that until its enjoyable for counter strike players
potent wolf
valve should port tf2 to godot
it's like 99% done anyways there's already godot code in the game
high current
Mcoms, what versions of mastercomfig didn’t use cfg/overrides as the user’s custom configs?
I’m putting the finishing touches on a PeachREC installer and want to document the compatibility with mastercomfig
rare creek
valve should port tf2 to source 2
What benefit would it have other than subtick or w/e
high current
Not like exact versions. But something like “after 9.8.x” or something would be the extent of my documentation
small sirenBOT
rare creek
you can just say to use the latest version of mastercomfig, it's okay
high current
Competitive players are weird like that though. I’d rather just say “after x.x.x version” or even “after 2022” or something. That way the lazy pro that hasn’t updated their comfig in years won’t complain when their stuff doesn’t work
left sand
you can just say use the latest or else not my fault it doesnt work
potent wolf
add a feature that detects if someone plays comp and if they are it inverts their movement keys
small sirenBOT
left sand
What benefit would it have other than subtick or w/e
it was a response to what ashe posted
people are like why port to source 2, valve can just fix a bunch of bugs and add engine improvements incrementally to source 1
but then thats literally what source 2 is
source 2 is basically the same technically as source 1 -> orange box, but with a lot more impact
rare creek
no bugs need to be fixed everything is purefct
left sand
every source 1 project ends up trying to make its own source 2
small sirenBOT
rare creek
if source 2 is just improvements to source 1 then why does cs2 run so badly?
left sand
respawn source is just slop and shit afaik
summer steeple
tbh source 2's biggest improvements are on the backend, not really userfacing changes
left sand
what
summer steeple
well actually graphics is a big part of it nevermind i'm just stupid
my brain is too poisoned by wishing for source 2 mapping tools lol
rare creek
upgrade to respawn source to make getting hacked easier
left sand
respawn source is just slop and shit afaik
rework and gutting systems for literally no reason to do some weird ai cloud bullshit they give up on in a year but they dont revert anything
rare creek
is that why apex legends runs so bad
summer steeple
I think particles are still a big reason for that
don't drop at the waterfall on olympus, worst mistake of my PC's life
rare creek
i remember trying it out on my old laptop and on the lowest settings it would fill my entire vram instantly
unlike every single other source game
summer steeple
I mean in terms of how they handle visuals comparing source to respawn source I feel like they're just completely different
rare creek
so you mean that respawn source is complete slop
rare creek
slop engine
summer steeple
I mean they got to adding PBR and mesh based maps before valve did... because valve decided their engine wasn't ready for a game yet
potent wolf
titanfall 2 looks way better than any source 1 game and still runs really well
summer steeple
idk enough about material rendering to know how expensive it is
yeah i seemed to remember TF|2 running well i think it might just be that a big ass open battle royale map was never meant to run well on source without massive rewrites of visibility and how it renders things
valve had to basically design DZ maps with the limitation that the engine literally could not handle it at reasonable framerates in mind
does respawn source still use visleafs for apex
if so I can't imagine how much their poor level designers have to struggle with wrangling it
left sand
tbh i wouldnt treat respawn's engine as source
its just as much as quake to goldsrc
or goldsrc to source
if not more
summer steeple
or quake 3 to CoD's engine
I just checked the quake engine wikipedia page and its kind of funny how often the family tree gets updated lol
potent wolf
i just realized something funny
we got the source 2 video services api headers in the sdk
cause of the backport
summer steeple
there's not very much there, although i guess there probably doesn't need to be
potent wolf
it's just the header for the interface
summer steeple
yeah
potent wolf
which i don't think is even needed
summer steeple
but i just kinda mean that its not like idk if it'd be any help
i guess its kinda cool though
potent wolf
consider the following: i want to make my own video player
left sand
we will get one source 2 file at a time
potent wolf
now i can use the source 2 video library
potent wolf
now i can use the source 2 video library
i should do this it would be funny
radiant merlin
Does that make an oom crash?
potent wolf
it writes a value at address 1
which is invalid (on any same system)
and will crash
oh hey it's that bug
left sand
it writes a value at address 1
thats a common crash technique tbh
potent wolf
yeah i just think it's funny that they choose to crash instead of exiting or something
radiant merlin
funny
slender nexus
valve should port tf2 to source 2
valve should port source 2 to TF2
potent wolf
valve should port source 2 to TF2
they're already doing that
rare creek
they're already doing that
source?
potent wolf
2
summer steeple
engine
potent wolf
we got the source 2 video services api headers in the sdk
also this if you want an actual answer
eternal haven
it writes a value at address 1
no it doens't
eternal haven
it cant write anything
anyways why would they pick 1 instead of 0
or anything in the first page
potent wolf
it cant write anything
i run tf2 in kernel mode with page 0 mapped
eternal haven
So true
Wasnt there like some security bug because someone didn't realize that address 0 is valid in kernel modules
I cant remember what it was in
potent wolf
there's probably a few bugs
radiant merlin
heavy update mentioned
void slate
Does TF2 -vulkan parameter support Directx 8?
I noticed that tf2 only has D9 dxvk .dll
Also how do you check which version of DXVK TF2 uses?
eternal haven
Does TF2 -vulkan parameter support Directx 8?
I guess it depends on what you mean by support
Technically it does work but you are prevented from doing it
eternal haven
I noticed that tf2 only has D9 dxvk .dll
This doesn't matter, dxlevel 8 in tf2 still creates a dx9 device and every feature it uses is supported by the d3d9 dxvk even prior to when dxvk "added dx8 support", I did test it at one point
eternal haven
Also how do you check which version of DXVK TF2 uses?
One way is to put dxvk.hud = version in your dxvk.conf file, it will show a little overlay with the version number
high current
For anyone familiar with PREC, my HUD-based PREC successor, PeachREC is officially live: https://github.com/PapaPeach/PeachREC
https://youtu.be/GuldUj6zqXs
radiant merlin
go
high current
2025 is the year of Go for me. Maybe 2026 will be the year of Rust. Though tbh Zig seems a little more interesting to me than Rust atm.
summer willow
my pc had died but now it come back so im playing tf2 a little
i noticed that playing with native wayland its much better than before
before had some issues with alt tab and other things but now is flawless
floral sandal
heavy update mentioned
where is this comment from?
livid urchin
where is this comment from?
high current
So apparently there is a really specific series of events that can occur that can break class configs (inconsequentially).
If a player joins a server with mp_tournament 1 enabled within the first 30 seconds of the server launching, during the WaitingForPlayers period, and the WaitingForPlayers period ends naturally then when both teams ready and the round starts, the player that joined early won’t have their class config executed when the round starts, it might affect the whole server.
This is inconsequential because of course you’d join the server and either select a class before the match started, running the class config, or select a class after the match has started and the bug’s affect has ended.
You might be able to pick a class in the same tick as the server starts and genuinely be affected, but that seems incredibly unlikely to do unintentionally.
I discovered this because PeachREC IS affected by this. Basically when a match starts you’re both respawned and you are reassigned to your selected class, triggering two Reset method calls (iirc), which triggers two instances of hud animation events included in the Reset method. That double call is what is detected by PeachREC to begin recording as it (along with a couple other conditions) is unique to the start of a match.
It seems like as long as you aren’t the one that joined the match within those 30 seconds you’ll be unaffected, or if the server runs mp_waitingforplayers_cancel 1 it’ll behave as intended.
TLDR: TF2 is a well designed game with absolutely no bugs at all.
mental scaffold
eternal haven
Imagine if you could use shotgun and you were still allowed to rocket jump
summer willow
i mean you still can
left sand
hazard crew...
oblique tangle
tom clancy harzard crew
uncut spear
have been seeing a few modders on gamebanana saying they're gonna be removing the casual compatible files from their mods because of the newest casual preloader by cukei and
heavy solarBOT
@uncut spear has earned the Level 2 role!
uncut spear
idk how to feel about that
feels like a bad idea tbh
esp with a considerable amount of people experiencing crashes from it
void slate
Is there any way to enable CSAA anti aliasing through the use of Nvidia Profile Inspector?
uncut spear
plus afaik the casual preloader doesn't like really work well with mods that aren't already casual compatible
it can load em but chances they either break or just don't work is considerable from how many comments mention it
also sucks a little that the new vpk compression thing exists where you can actually pack shit higher than 200mb in a single vpk but it struggles with shit above that original limit anyways lel
like I tried to make a 2gb mod into one vpk and it just didn't work
anyways here's two cool mods
uncut spear
Is there any way to enable CSAA anti aliasing through the use of Nvidia Profile ...
and I'll re-up this question (cause I feel a little bad)
void slate
like I tried to make a 2gb mod into one vpk and it just didn't work
You can use VPKEdit to make VPK as big as 4gb
small sirenBOT
wild grove
You can also just do a vpk multi pack
Yknow the 000, 001, 002, etc. til it makes a _dir.vpk
uncut spear
yeah that's what the mod already is
but man all the multi pack vpks are annoying to look at lel
it's just a me thing tho
uncut spear
You can use VPKEdit to make VPK as big as 4gb
question is, does it not take like a whole day?
void slate
question is, does it not take like a whole day?
No, like a minute or two max
uncut spear
I'll try it then
summer steeple
man it's weird to see a vpk file that size
source 2 would like a word
granted they only do this for maps, content vpks are still chunked out
stone linden
i’m an arm mac gamer, and i wonder if there’s specific performance guidance for wine tf2 players? i get really mediocre performance (medium preset i think) despite very low cpu and ram usage. is there anything i should tweak outside of mastercomfig to improve things?
uncut spear
have been seeing a few modders on gamebanana saying they're gonna be removing th...
realized this is a bad idea if it gets patched too 😭
now that's judging if valve would even give a shit
cobalt spruce
my problem with the preloader is that i have too many mods lol
vpk cant go over 4gb so i need to keep the bigger vpks in my custom folder
crisp cedar
https://gamebanana.com/mods/581458
https://gamebanana.com/mods/581588
wut the hell is this
rare creek
@sacred totem send me your entire tf2 config including your cfg directory and custom folder
rare creek
your tf2 config
sacred totem
4 y
rare creek
i NEED your archived cvars and cfg and hud
sacred totem
I use mostly stock everything with interp and low video settings, only custom stuff i really have is comfig null cancel flat mouse and no pyroland
I don't use a custom hud
rare creek
I WANT YOUR FOLDERD!!!!!!!!!!
sacred totem
Why do u want my folderd
rare creek
*kills you
@sacred totem BECAUSE YOU SHOW this SCRENESHOT WITH YOUR WEAPON AND I CANT GET THE WEAPON TO WORK https://github.com/ficool2/sdk_screenspace_shaders/issues/1#issuecomment-2550244298
rare creek
Like you can't get the shader to work
this stupid fucking shader project keeps EATING MY VIEWMODELS even with the EXACT SAME FUCKIING SHADER
rare creek
ficool is the worst ever
sacred totem
Like you just set overlay to this and your viewmodel disappears
uncut spear
rare creek
lol
wintry marlin
another one?
sacred totem
afaik it's the old one where you can use that full color vtf tool to make corrupted sprays/decals that crash anyone who looks at them
rare creek
so basically they're lying because the decal crash bug was fixed and the decal crash bug never even applied to sprays
wintry marlin
weird
I know that the decal exploit caused crashes because the size of the texture was something like 34024123x63411231
of solid color
I don't remember any spray specific crash exploits tbf
small sirenBOT
eternal haven
Is there any way to enable CSAA anti aliasing through the use of Nvidia Profile ...
You should be able to enable it by setting mat_antialias 16 in tf2 on nvidia cards
But it looks like ass compared to msaa
void slate
You should be able to enable it by setting mat_antialias 16 in tf2 on nvidia car...
Really? I thought CSAA was an improved optimized version of MSAA that was killed because of deferred render engines?
void slate
You should be able to enable it by setting mat_antialias 16 in tf2 on nvidia car...
And isn't mat_antialalias 16 non-functional ?
eternal haven
Really? I thought CSAA was an improved optimized version of MSAA that was killed...
I mean you can try it out yourself
The CSAA available in tf2 (through setting mat_antialias 16) looks markedly worse than 8x msaa
eternal haven
And isn't mat_antialalias 16 non-functional ?
no
you can read through the 2017 leak to learn more, but it's a bit confusing
void slate
you can read through the 2017 leak to learn more, but it's a bit confusing
Wait, so mat_antialias 8,4,2 enables MSAA, and 16 enables CSAA?
void slate
On nvidia gpus, on windows, yes
That is weird
So this guide is wrong?
mat_antialias "~" ; mat_aaquality "~"
mat_antialias 0 ; mat_aaquality 0 [None]
mat_antialias 2 ; mat_aaquality 0 [2x MSAA]
mat_antialias 4 ; mat_aaquality 0 [4x MSAA]
mat_antialias 8 ; mat_aaquality 0 [8x MSAA]
mat_antialias 4 ; mat_aaquality 2 [8x CSAA]
mat_antialias 4 ; mat_aaquality 4 [16x CSAA]
mat_antialias 8 ; mat_aaquality 2 [16xQ CSAA]
eternal haven
I don't know for sure, it would require further testing
But mat_antialias 16 enabling csaa is not mutually exclusive with what you posted
My hunch from looking at the code is that mat_aaquality does not do much but I would have to investigate it further
void slate
Also the wiki states "Source natively support CSAA since Source 2007. Support for CSAA was removed since Maxwell and later NVIDIA cards"
So like the only way would to force it through nvidia profile inspector
eternal haven
If it was removed fully from the driver or the hardware, you could not enable it through nvidia profile inspector either
void slate
void slate
If it was removed fully from the driver or the hardware, you could not enable it...
You said CSAA is supported natively still, which meansnyou don't need drivers, right?
eternal haven
?
Absolutely you need driver support for it
setting mat_antialias 16 in tf2 produces a result distinct from mat_antialias 0 or mat_antialias 8, in the code they reference csaa
void slate
setting mat\_antialias 16 in tf2 produces a result distinct from mat\_antialias ...
So if I'm using a 1050 TI with the latest drivers, the command does nothing for me?
void slate
setting mat\_antialias 16 in tf2 produces a result distinct from mat\_antialias ...
What was the hardware you used to test that?
eternal haven
So if I'm using a 1050 TI with the latest drivers, the command does nothing for ...
Presumably it does something
eternal haven
What was the hardware you used to test that?
Ampere
void slate
Maybe mastercoms know more about this, I mean they don't even offer an option to use CSAA in the modules
eternal haven
I think she may have at one point
had a mat_antialias 16 module
you might be able to find a message explaining why she removed it, I'd assume just because it appears to offer no visual or performance improvement over msaa 4x
void slate
you might be able to find a message explaining why she removed it, I'd assume ju...
Okay apparently she removed because it was "Too confusing for new players"
eternal haven
Makes sense, new players could assume "csaa 16x" looks better than "msaa 8x" when in tf2 it clearly doesn't
I will try to figure out if mat_aaquality is ever used, it's kind of hard to tell
void slate
I will try to figure out if mat_aaquality is ever used, it's kind of hard to tel...
I'm thinking maybe CSAA still works, at least the settings, but because of the dropped driver support, the effect instead of being better is now worse
This is just a theory though
eternal haven
Yeah it's possible
All I know is that the result of setting mat_antialias 16 is distinct from both 0 and 8
Whether it's "actual csaa" I have no idea
eternal haven
I will try to figure out if mat_aaquality is ever used, it's kind of hard to tel...
I don't see it used anywhere but there are so many places to check that I could have missed something
left sand
mat_aaquality is not used anymore
it was initially but then it was moved to mat_antialias 16
void slate
it was initially but then it was moved to mat_antialias 16
So now there is only mat_antialias 2,4,6,8,16?
2 to 8 being MSAA 2x 4x 6x 8x, and 16 is CSAA 16xQ?
left sand
yes
void slate
Is there anyway to use CSAA 4x or 8x?
left sand
i dont think so
void slate
What about forcing it through nvidia profile inspector?
heavy solarBOT
@void slate has leveled up! (6 ➜ 7)
small sirenBOT
eternal haven
I wonder why mat_antialias 16 looks visually much closer to mat_antialias 4 than to mat_antialias 8
left sand
it might be 4x4
eternal haven
The old nvidia docs seem to imply it would be 8x something
small sirenBOT
eternal haven
but maybe it's changed idk
void slate
I'm really intersted in CSAA because anti aliasing tech like it was killed because of the move to deferred rendergin engines and Temporal Anti Aliasing solution
Nvidia says MFAA reaplaced CSAA but they both work completly differently
Okay I've forced CSAA 32x in Nvidia Inpsector
Ill se if I get a performance drop to see it works
Any maps that are good to test anti aliasing?
eternal haven
The best way to test is just setpos screenshots
on any map
that way you can switch back and forth between your screenshots and compare
or subtract one from the other
glass musk
can't you just use DLDSR + 8x MSAA for the best visual quality
I doubt you will notice a difference with CSAA 32x or CSAA 16x
oh you're using a 1050 Ti
left sand
I'm really intersted in CSAA because anti aliasing tech like it was killed becau...
it wasn't just because of deferred rendering, temporal anti aliasing is really needed because spatial solutions do not cover all forms of anti-aliasing
eternal haven
I think what he means is more like why did they remove csaa from nvidia control panel when mfaa or other temporal things don't actually replace the functionality it provided
like you can't even use mfaa in dx9 games
but they still removed csaa from the control panel
left sand
i mean, isn't it because there is no hardware support for it any more and CSAA didn't actually provide much visual difference?
eternal haven
Don't know honestly
left sand
like it's essentially slightly enhanced visibility test
no color test
and besides, none of the modes except for 8x2 really provide any benefit because it's strictly worse than MSAA
all the other modes are a slight performance optimization
eternal haven
The only explanation for the way mat_antialias 16 looks is that it's using some 4x mode, despite the nvidia documentation implying it would be 8x
IMO anyways
left sand
8x2 theoretically provides a slight benefit for geometric visibility but doesn't enhance color data if it is visible
but yeah, the main reason for moving away from CSAA is that MSAA/CSAA are not only spatial AA tech, but they are also geometric anti-aliasing
PBR introduces new forms of aliasing, also if you view AA as a form of supersampling, then spatial supersampling does nothing to temporally super sample motion
so fast moving items / high frequency data needs extremely high frame rates to generate accurate motion, but GPUs cannot reach those high sample counts
drowsy marlin
We need to eliminate all forms if aliasing
rare creek
no more alias command?
drowsy marlin
Correct
potent wolf
would it be possible to add other AA methods using the SDK?
left sand
im not sure, we dont have motion buffer
rare creek
why
rare creek
would it be possible to add other AA methods using the SDK?
fxaa might work
eternal haven
With fiendhook you can hook InvokeCreateDevice and change it there
sacred totem
green tulip
what ever happened to TXAA? wasn't it technically FXAA 4.0 or something?
like the last release of FXAA was 3.11 or something and there where posts way back teasing at FXAA 4.0 which then ended up becoming TXAA?
oblique tangle
what ever happened to TXAA? wasn't it technically FXAA 4.0 or something?
ultimately it failed because it required game engine integration separate from TAA and wasn't vendor agnostic
kind falcon
@eternal haven ur like ash. such a cia agent. but i lowkey fw 🍞
potent wolf
talon
oblique tangle
do not believe everything you see on the internet
that is camera fov angle manipulation
potent wolf
do not believe everything you see on the internet
yes
potent wolf
shit
kind falcon
shit
rare creek
this is why I NEED your config
@sacred totem
tough locust
I'm really intersted in CSAA because anti aliasing tech like it was killed becau...
TAA is such SLOPPPP also yeah mat_aaquality hasn't done anything in a long time which is why its good for HUD editing stuff
eternal haven
Yeah it basically just reloads the material system config but then never gets used when setting the mode in shaderapi
rare creek
taa looks good
eternal haven
Antialiasing is a personal preference type of setting
potent wolf
Team Fortress 2 Megathread - dead (again)
rare creek
https://vxtwitter.com/TFSysMessages/status/1902075912444690889?t=LYdnKo8krxGvjeP...
heavy update in 5 minutes
tacit flare
heavy update in 5 minutes
10 Heavy items from the workshop and updated localisation files.
eternal haven
Antialiasing is a personal preference type of setting
You can say a certain antialiasing setting objectively provides a better representation of where within a pixel a point actually is, or a certain antialiasing setting objectively looks blurrier or sharper than some other, or objectively has greater or lesser artifacting than some other, but which 'looks better' is not completely objective, there are personal preference elements to that.
green tulip
within the space of post process AA methods why are the only ones ever talked about FXAA, TAA, and SMAA? What about stuff like DLAA (2011) and or CMAA2?
rare creek
there's too many fuckin anti aliasing techniques to fucking worry about thesdse day back i nmy day there was only msaa and fxaa
glass musk
I wonder if Valve plans to add DLSS to CS2
@eternal haven Deadlock got it 
do not rolling eyes me
eternal haven
Talon rolling eyed you I just had to hop on the bandwagon
void slate
Okay can anyone corraborate this
I was testing the mat_antialias settings
And somehow mat_antialias 4 and 16 have much worse performance then 8
I tested this in Pl_enclosure and the main menu with the console closed
Yet 8 looks just as good...
eternal haven
Okay can anyone corraborate this
Can't
8 performs the worst and looks the best
for me
void slate
my mat_alphacoverage was at 0
as well
Okay I triple checked
Mat_antialias 4 ~720 fps
mat_antialias 8 ~780 fps
mat_antialias 16 ~720 fps
mastercoms ultra preset
eternal haven
Can you post a screenshot of where on the map you were looking
void slate
antialias set to off and an autoexec.cfg with mat_antialias 0
eternal haven
I can test it later when I get around to it
to see if I observe the same or different
void slate
Can you post a screenshot of where on the map you were looking
These where in the menu
eternal haven
I see
eternal haven
It doesn't seem normal
8 should both look better and run worse than 4 but what you posted shows the opposite
summer steeple
i'm having a bit of trouble telling the difference between the two images, but that might be due to jpeg compression
eternal haven
Yeah lossless pngs or tgas would be better for this than jpgs
void slate
i'm having a bit of trouble telling the difference between the two images, but t...
Hard to tell anyway, its on my 1440p monitor, can't tell teh difference
Just used mastecoms shounic benchmark
Now I get consistent fps among all
wtf is it with this TF2 anti aliasing
small sirenBOT
potent wolf
mastercoms shounic benchmark?
void slate
convars are evil
Why?
potent wolf
the demo changes a few archived convars whenever you play it
i wish there was a way to remove them ingame
void slate
the demo changes a few archived convars whenever you play it
what....
eternal haven
It changes like your crosshair and viewmodel and stuff
because shounic decided to change his while recording it
velvet raft
i wish there was a way to remove them ingame
delete system 32 while you're playing
stone linden
how do I avoid getting trickstabbed? I tried straight backpedaling and trying to get distance, and then I just got facestabbed maybe 30 degrees off of my crosshair. I'm at my wits end. It feels so embarrassing to die to so many trickstabs
eternal haven
Here's mat_antialias
0:
4:
8:
16:
using settings I might actually play on (high models and textures, everything else between mastercoms low and medium low, and dxlevel 81)
Here's the same on dxlevel 95 and mastercomfig ultra (everything pretty much default except I disabled the bloom overbright stuff because it was fucking up the screenshots):
0:
4:
8:
and 16:
As you can see 8 looks the best and runs the slowest, while 4 and 16 appear to be pretty much identical, looking worse than 8 and running faster than 8
RTX 3060 (mobile version) and latest 572 driver from today
wild grove
interesting, and nvidia sets it to 4x when playing on a geforce now rig too.
everything is set to ultra except the anti-aliasing
small sirenBOT
wild grove
ok, this is actually a decent haiku I think.
burnt dragon
why the lsd effect, whats pyro up to rn
cursive peak
tacit flare
The TF2 wiki has always been a bit unstable. I wonder why that is.
radiant merlin
Bots
high current
Little baby men couldn’t spin bot anymore so they turned to the wiki I guess.
radiant merlin
Pretty sure they are not from the bot hosters
I believe these ones are data scraping bots
rare creek
when are you fixing the tf2 wiki no other website has this problem
radiant merlin
I'm not an admin
radiant merlin
So?
rare creek
I though you owned it
high current
when are you fixing the tf2 wiki no other website has this problem
Other websites definitely have the same problem. You probably just don’t interact with them because if they have that problem they’re usually pretty niche.
My university’s website will have issues like that at least twice a week and I guarantee they pay more for hosting make a lot more for than the wiki does.
rare creek
mastercomfig doesnt have this issue
radiant merlin
So?
Google doesn't have it either
if the servers are down i suggest you use archive org
if the article is available of course
rare creek
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/OTFWiki/discussions/0/624416944951472575/
bruh!!!
no other game wiki get this issue valve need to like move the official wiki over to like fandom or smth
radiant merlin
alright stop
rare creek
when have you seen the terraria wiki go down
or minecraft wiki
honestly archive.org isn't much better that's like the other site that goes down regularly
radiant merlin
why are you telling me anyways
rare creek
i dont knwo you should know this alredy
radiant merlin
whatever
eternal haven
What if valve just pays a contractor to spend a day to bring up the custom stuff for current mediawiki
radiant merlin
what if valve instead of doing that pays a contractor to make an update?
eternal haven
The stuff they're using isn't even that old it's like 4 years old maybe
Can't be that hard to upgrade
I thought it was gonna be some like 10 year old software
potent wolf
why did that get deleted
🤔
potent wolf
here ya go:
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/0759e2e8e179d5352d81d0d4aaded72c1704b7a9/src/game/shared/econ/econ_holidays.cpp#L331 Why did they make it April 12th to April 14th when Rick May died April 8th?
- @rare creek
rare creek
ohok thank
eternal haven
replay coding is above the law
rare creek
replay coding is above the law
the donadl trump that everyone needs
rare creek
something interesting is that all of these holidays function as conditionals in mainmenuoverride and their names directly control what main menu music gets played
this means you can add your own april fools or valentines music with a mod or change the look of the main menu on those holidays too
tacit flare
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/OTFWiki/discussions/0/624416944951472575/
Thanks for this.
void slate
Does anyone know how to enable SGSSAA for TF2?
tough locust
here ya go:
> https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/0759e2e8e179...
what does the april fool's holiday even do??
potent wolf
iirc theres a random chance of playing a taunt but i don't remember very well
?????
i'm kinda sad they didn't keep this
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Schadenfreude anyways here
it has a chance of randomly playing
potent wolf
yeahhhh
high current
mastercomfig doesnt have this issue
I don’t recall what server provider comfig.app uses, but major service providers will pay millions and often billions for reliable service.
I know people that worked in hosting and cloud computing at IBM when it was pretty much invented, and yeh they were doing tens-of-billions of dollar deals with people like Delta (who never actually signed and if you’ve ever used their site you could have guessed), the Olympics, missile defense systems, banking, etc.
Infrastructure is WILD business.
stone linden
mediawiki is kind of complicated sometimes
fandom is also super terrible, theres a reason almost all major games have moved away from fandom in the last 2 years
soft lynx
Valve paying the bills for keeping the thing running is already pretty geneours. Sure some other companies actively run the wikis themself (Guild Wars 2, Minecraft to name a few I personally know of) or use an actually good wiki community like wiki.gg (because fuck fandom), but I imagine that those not only comes with a higher cost. but require a lot more active people to keep up to date and maintain. And for a game that only gets a couple of cosmetics and sometimes maps added to it (bug fixes aside) I don't see them willing to go beyond what they already do.
And if you wanna do more than just screech at random people, then volunteering for a big project like the wiki is a better place to spend your energy on
rare creek
And if you wanna do more than just screech at random people, then volunteering f...
You must be new here
potent wolf
they're right though...
rare creek
They're right but they're new for thinking that all I ever want to do isn't screeching at random people
rare creek
how and why
left sand
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/OTFWiki/discussions/0/624416944951472575/
what if i volunteered 🤔
radiant merlin
mmm
you'll have to talk with tark
we have someone who is also willing to volunteer regardless
hopefully they can contact wind and rj
tough locust
real talk why can't Wikipedia host the full wikis for stuff beyond just a 1 page definition of a person or place or thing. I thought it was supposed to be the culmination of the worlds knowledge or something like that. make them use their e-begging donations to host the Tf2 pages and the Minecraft pages and every fandom wiki made by a 12 year old
radiant merlin
eternal haven
real talk why can't Wikipedia host the full wikis for stuff beyond just a 1 page...
Why would you want random game items and stuff mixed in with the things you'd find in a general encyclopedia
It makes sense to have separate wikis for things like that
fleet kite
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/OTFWiki/discussions/0/624416944951472575/
Valve is kind enough to pay for the billing and give us a spot on the teamfortress.com domain valve continues to be based
eternal haven
Niterux is kind enough to pay for the billing and give me a spot on the Niterux.net domain
summer willow
wha
eternal haven
Usually caused by packet loss I think
small sirenBOT
high current
I’ve seen it occasionally. I might have only seen it on heavies tbh
floral sandal
season images for competitive
what did they mean by season
summer steeple
presumably seasons like nearly every other modern competitive game, where every few months the season changes, usually alongside a rank reset or at least a requirement to do placements again, and in most games a balance patch, although uhhh, tf2 balance patches
although I think cs2 is still on season 1 lol
rare creek
although I think cs2 is still on season 1 lol
season 2
summer steeple
counter-season 2
drowsy marlin
Will there be a season 3, proving valve can count to 3?
cobalt spruce
season alyx
rare creek
season 2 episode 1
high current
Didn’t they already announce the date for season 3 before season 2 started?
rare creek
someone should pr a fix for the youtube achievements
high current
The world isn’t ready for such things
tacit flare
someone should pr a fix for the youtube achievements
Team Comtress adding the new Youtube API to allow for unlocking the achievements, thus factually proven to be better than base TF2?
floral sandal
Team Comtress adding the new Youtube API to allow for unlocking the achievements...
you can unlock achievements in frog fortress or SDK mods? how does that work
tacit flare
you can unlock achievements in frog fortress or SDK mods? how does that work
I don't know, that's what I was asking.
high current
Idle Fortress Mod inbound
potent wolf
👀
potent wolf
Team Comtress adding the new Youtube API to allow for unlocking the achievements...
did you or someone else actually write code to use the new youtube api?
im confused if this is a thing that exists or just a "this would be nice"
tacit flare
did you or someone else actually write code to use the new youtube api?
It was a question. As far as my understanding has been told, Youtube updated their API ages back which broke it, and Valve haven't done anything with it since.
potent wolf
ah okay
potent wolf
ah okay
it should be possible since all the code is on the client, but i haven't looked too close
tacit flare
Would it be possible to add an extra item slot for classes exclusively for medals?
They're such a small thing, though I don't know if the entity limit could handle it.
tacit flare
It'll be fiiiiiiine
wild grove
Would it be possible to add an extra item slot for classes exclusively for medal...
what about em being able to be placed in the action slot? will the performance hit and extra 24-100 entities happen then?
that would mean you would have to take it off whenever you play MvM or Halloween, so basically for anyone who doesn't play MvM, the medals can be used 11 months out of the year.
eternal haven
What if valve added a hack to remove all hats
potent wolf
what if valve added fiendhook
summer steeple
I think a more likely fix if valve didn't just increase the entity limit would be trying to merge the cosmetics into like 1 entity for each player, then maybe adding a badge slot
idk how feasible that would be, I think coms has talked about it before? I could be horribly misremembering since I can't find the message
void slate
What happened to the dev 9.12.0 buils mastercomfig?
Were there any bugs that delayed its release?
void slate
Also how much how awesome would it be if TF2/source games were rewritten to support vulkan natively, none of that dxvk mumbo jumbo?
I mean if Minecraft modders can do it why not source modders?
potent wolf
would it actually be worth it though
void slate
would it actually be worth it though
Theoretically yes
rare creek
There was actually a Minecraft modder who did this but they never released it
They made a Vulkan render engine and ported it to TF2
small sirenBOT
void slate
They made a Vulkan render engine and ported it to TF2
Hold up really??! When was this and who?
I know portal 2 did that
potent wolf
Theoretically yes
what benefits would it actually provide though, and would they be worth the amount of work
rare creek
Hold up really??! When was this and who?
I honestly don't think I should name them because they turned out to be an dickhead
void slate
what benefits would it actually provide though, and would they be worth the amou...
Holy shit!!
potent wolf
?
void slate
I honestly don't think I should name them because they turned out to be an dickh...
Oh come onnnn!
rare creek
?
void slate
Why do the crazies never stay on the right side of crazy
rare creek
You know about luigi mangione?
void slate
You know about luigi mangione?
Yes, too well
rare creek
They had nothing to do with this but luigi was a good crazy person
void slate
They had nothing to do with this but luigi was a good crazy person
Not crazy by definition but I get your point
And there's more to it then being nuts
Back to the topic though, what did this dickhead do?
rare creek
they really really did not like trans people
void slate
they really really did not like trans people
Wow really? Man I feel sorry for them
Well it seems a lot was done based on what replay's link says
Vulkan would be a huge optimizer and allow for new features like raytracing
And other mesh optimizations
potent wolf
would it actually provide a large performance benefit though
tf2 isn't very gpu-heavy
sure stuff could be changed to use the gpu more, but at that point you'd be overhauling major parts of the engine
void slate
TF2 leaves a lot of performance in floor, not just in code but model rendering etc, just look at how much mastercoms is able to improve
DirectX 9 is getting old
potent wolf
and also you have to make sure that the graphics stay the same, which is why togl was made in the first place
it'd be a lot of work
eternal haven
For most computers it would only really help much if you play on ultra settings
potent wolf
and i'm just not sure it's worth it
void slate
and also you have to make sure that the graphics stay the same, which is why tog...
True, buts wouldn't be hsrd
eternal haven
otherwise the graphics performance is just not the issue
potent wolf
uh
void slate
For most computers it would only really help much if you play on ultra settings
TF2 ultra settings are today's medium (minus the UE5 games)
And boy does TF2 not utilize the hardware it can use
Christ my 1050ti never goes over 59% yet VRAM usage is through the roof
rare creek
well then turn down texture quality
eternal haven
Turn texture resolution down from ultra or buy a gpu with more memory
computer programs can be limited by different sorts of factors
void slate
Turn texture resolution down from ultra or buy a gpu with more memory
I'll wait next generation, I have an RTX. 3060 12gb
eternal haven
there are many situations where some factor is a limitation and it doesn't matter how much of some other resource you have
void slate
there are many situations where some factor is a limitation and it doesn't matte...
I know, but we've come a long way in almost two decades, and TF2 isn't going anywhere
It's about time we start taking advantage
Before deprecation come knocking
eternal haven
TF2 received a massive performance update not even a year ago
You should try being thankful for it
void slate
TF2 received a massive performance update not even a year ago
I'm thankful for a lot things including that
Doesn't mean there isn't more that can be done and should be done
eternal haven
I guess but a vulkan shaderapi seems like it would be misplaced effort
potent wolf
vulkan isn't some magic bullet
there are many things that can be addressed before considering rewriting the entire rendering backend
void slate
vulkan isn't some magic bullet
I understand that, what do you take me for
void slate
there are many things that can be addressed before considering rewriting the ent...
Or course but will those improvements be equivalent to fixing and improving a pipe made of lead that will need to be replaced anyway at some point?
If not, improve it
And if those optimization are minor undertakings go for it
eternal haven
I guess I don't really see the problem
void slate
But if there major overhaul in system that soon will deprecated, it demands some thinking
potent wolf
since when will dxvk be deprecated
dxvk is the replacement for the deprecated system
summer steeple
i mean dxvk does run worse on windows than native directx in tf2
potent wolf
because it's meant to replace togl
eternal haven
It kinda depends
void slate
dxvk is the *replacement* for the deprecated system
No DXVK is a stop gap, a half measure
eternal haven
in a few cases it can perform better for some things
on windows
but yeah across the board it's a bit worse
void slate
but yeah across the board it's a bit worse
It does offer some improvements like better cubemapa, alt tabbing and VRR support
potent wolf
i just don't see the point of it, considering the amount of work it would require to actually take advantage of vulkan
you'd have to rewrite so many parts of the engine
void slate
But directx is still best in performance because it's native
potent wolf
you'd have to rewrite so many parts of the engine
it's not just some drop in thing where you replace the rendering backend and now your fps is doubled
void slate
it's not just some drop in thing where you replace the rendering backend and now...
Of course not
potent wolf
and i just don't see how it's worth the effort
void slate
and i just don't see how it's worth the effort
I do, because I still see TF2 being here 20 years from now
potent wolf
???
void slate
what is wrong with tf2?
On the surface, nothing, you could think it's better than ever
eternal haven
Apart from the playercount it pretty much is
void slate
Apart from the playercount it pretty much is
Some ways yes, others not so much
The great optimization purge of 2011 for example
So many models were "optimized"
To save on performance, improved performance by 5-10%
eternal haven
Sounds good to me
the models look fine and performance improvement is welcome
but they could have kept the higher res models
and made it a setting
to appease everyone
void slate
but they could have kept the higher res models
Exactly, they literally replaced models with their Lods as the root model
The ambassador had bullets
potent wolf
literally unplayable
void slate
The revolver functioned like actual revolver with bullet casing and moving hammer and firing pin and actual barrel
HWM option was removed
They removed mat_picnip -10 because of macos
summer steeple
picmip -10 is back
void slate
picmip -10 is back
Only because macos was killed
summer steeple
but even then the only reason that had any improvement was because of texture oversights
void slate
but even then the only reason that had any improvement was because of texture ov...
Yes indeed
A whole mod on gamebana fixed that
And it performs better than mat_picmip -10 for the same quality
Because then mipmap actually work
eternal haven
They removed mat_picnip -10 because of macos
Didn't they limit it to 1 on macos and -1 on other platforms
and then eventually raised it to 0 on macos
but like they had a special case for macos
so they didn't have to remove -10 for other platforms in any way related to macos, they actively chose to for some separate reason it seems
void slate
but like they had a special case for macos
Yes was related to a memory leak
void slate
so they didn't have to remove -10 for other platforms in any way related to maco...
Which was related to the mad mipmap settings
eternal haven
There's just some minor fringe textures that go higher than -1
void slate
There's just some minor fringe textures that go higher than -1
Yes but only beyond of bad mipmaps again
eternal haven
Also if you really cared about -10 before, you could just use nvidia lod bias, couldn't you?
like while they had it limited to -1
void slate
-10 setting in of itself is a bug/debug
Which was used to test textures
-1 means in source to turn some off or have it max setting in the case of picmip
-1 should mean all textures at max quality
eternal haven
Only because macos was killed
This isn't true btw
They changed it back from -1 to -10 in 2022
And the code they changed never even gets compiled on mac os
void slate
And the code they changed never even gets compiled on mac os
Exactly they stopped supporting macos unofficially years ago, after macos no longer supported 32bit .exe
So why keep the restriction
eternal haven
No I mean it doesn't get compiled on macos even when they were compiling for macos
// OSX users are currently running OOM. We limit them to texture quality high here, which avoids the problem while we come up with a real solution.
static ConVar mat_picmip( "mat_picmip", "1", FCVAR_ARCHIVE, "", true, 0, true, 4 );
#else
static ConVar mat_picmip( "mat_picmip", "0", FCVAR_ARCHIVE, "", true, -10, true, 4 );
#endif```Oh, that was because the animation was extremely distracting, it was changed in gun mettle I think.
void slate
Oh, that was because the animation was extremely distracting, it was changed in ...
No the animation was simplified in the conversion to c_models
Which were based on w_models instead of the v_models
So the details were removed
wild grove
at first, before they became their own thing over time.
it was extremely hacked together, like frankensteining a "w_" and a "v_" model.
void slate
it was extremely hacked together, like frankensteining a "w_" and a "v_" model.
I'll have to double check the TF2 version just before gun mettle than, again
But yes the cmodel conversion was terrible
wild grove
it started in 2014 although community weapons were already using C_ I think.
void slate
Broke animations for randomizer
Which the had unique set of animation for each weapon
wild grove
But yes the cmodel conversion was terrible
Ehhhhh, besides revolver cylinders not working, and valve not spending more time messing with materials, I think it was a net positive.
void slate
Ehhhhh, besides revolver cylinders not working, and valve not spending more time...
Oh yes, no need for two versions, but it removed weapon replacers with unique animations
Did make things somewhat more modular
void slate
It broke a mod oh no!
Watch, mods were the life blood of this game for over a decade
The whole community made hundreds of mods fixing valves fuck ups
potent wolf
valve is allowed to change how their game works
wild grove
clearly, cause valve made sv_pure
potent wolf
void slate
valve is allowed to change how their game works
When it's made based on information provided by incorrect idiots
Hardly
As though animations could speed up reloads
potent wolf
uh, what?
eternal haven
It was like some baseless rumor
potent wolf
no i know about the rumor
eternal haven
super inconsequential