Team Fortress 2 Megathread - winter is the most chill time of year

[summer steeple]

like for this one my eye is just drawn towards his chest

[paper sluice]

Yeah that’s fair they are pretty bold changes

[summer steeple]

the normals on the models look great though

vanilla tf2 models have such godawful normals lol

[paper sluice]

Godawful normals and material settings

Isn’t soldiers normal only 1k or something normally

[summer steeple]

no not normal map but like vertex normals

[paper sluice]

Oh yeah that too

[summer steeple]

like ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

just weirdly ends when it gets to the fingers and then restarts

or on pouches like this, having a sharp edge looks so much better

[paper sluice]

Yeah way more defined

Doesn’t look like a blobby box

[summer steeple]

good vertex normals go a looooong way

if you want to get really indepth you can manually modify them but even if you just mark edges as sharp that can get great results

[unborn pecan]

I killed myself with a reflect rocket

[potent wolf]

this happens to me more often than id like to admit

[paper sluice]

How lmao

[summer steeple]

auto reflect

[oblique tangle]

that's not that bad

[potent wolf]

well pyro is supposed to be a close quarters class...

[paper sluice]

True..,,,

[oblique tangle]

there's even a weapon whose idea revolves entirely around damaging yourself in order to get kills

[paper sluice]

We should go be the equalizer to pyro

[oblique tangle]

it's called the ulapool caber

[paper sluice]

Is that the right one

Idk they’re both pickaxes

[oblique tangle]

the escape plan

[paper sluice]

Shit

It’s been awhile :(

[oblique tangle]

they used to be the same weapon but got separated

[paper sluice]

Yeah

[oblique tangle]

[paper sluice]

[left sand]

problem is, it doesnt just have to look good

but also play good

obviously there were constraints in 2007

but thing is, too much high frequency detail could ruin the game

[small siren]

*but thing is, too much

high frequency detail

could ruin the game*

- mcoms

[paper sluice]

Yeah

If the game didn’t have cosmetics I’d definitely agree but since it does eh I’m more lenient bout that

I think the most impressive part is heavy’s bullets like how did it take so long to make them not look like crayons

Even TIP didn’t do it..,.

[rare creek]

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/commit/3de9978bb918175c8d8327dec1159bc1ce7ca8e9

Is Valve allowed to do this? I heard they weren't allowed to update passtime due to licensing constraints with the company they collaborated with to make it

[orchid sorrel]

I assume they just cant add like new pass time content from the workshop but bug fixes/changes are fair game

[left sand]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q65lQNpXm8

holy shit lmao

[floral sandal]

source?

[potent wolf]

engine

[summer steeple]

source is that people emailed eric about it and he said they couldn't since bad robot owns the gamemode

[rare creek]

https://web.archive.org/web/20220511033814/https://i.imgur.com/1QaYBTw.png

[eternal haven]

Nice virus...... not clicking that dude

[potent wolf]

Nice virus...... not clicking that dude

[floral sandal]

it’s just a web archive link lol

it’s not an IP tracker

[eternal haven]

Sure bro

[rare creek]

it is

[floral sandal]

legit domain, https

[potent wolf]

It drops a chrome 0day

[floral sandal]

bet you got burnt badly before in the past by a virus

[potent wolf]

Installs a persistent backdoor in your bios

no, hard drive firmware

and sets fire to your computer

[paper sluice]

Just bribe Dario Casali 1 dollar a a dustbowl bunker and we’ll see some MANNPOWER updates very soon..,

[floral sandal]

kernel access granted

[summer steeple]

wait wtf michael booth works for bad robot games now

[floral sandal]

this sucks for community creators who might’ve been holding out a glimmer of hope for offical inclusion

[summer steeple]

he made l4d

and did a lot of the AI stuff for MVM

anyway bad robot games gas a great track record

(silent hill ascension was the livestreamed choose your own adventure game where they had 0 filtering or moderation on the chat)

[floral sandal]

some of their staff profile pics are p funny

[summer steeple]

its a surprisingly big studio it looks like

with like 50 directors lmao

[floral sandal]

these both look uncanny

[summer steeple]

a lot of them do

[floral sandal]

boone looks like he’s wearing a molded face mask

[summer steeple]

apparently the CEO is also ex-valve?

Anna Sweet

i don't recognize the name

I see thank you
"Anna Sweet was part of the original business team at Valve that built the Steam platform and led gaming’s transition to digital distribution. Through her work on the Steam platform, she led several cutting-edge innovations that are core to the metaverse including the concept of live service game development, user generated content and cross game trading. She spent 6 years at Valve leading platform growth, before joining Oculus to run content strategy for the launch of the Rift. Currently, she is CEO of Bad Robot Games, focusing on the exciting intersection of gaming and linear entertainment."

although actually, I don't think Bad Robot Games owns the rights to pass time

they didn't exist until like 2020

so its probably just bad robot as a whole that owns it

[floral sandal]

they seem to have good benefits like paid-maternity leave, work at home model, and also a Summer Offsite experience

where are they getting the funds lol

[summer steeple]

Bad Robot is J.J. Abrams company lol

he has like unlimited money

oh god i forgot

bad robot didn't program passtime, they just concepted it

it was developed by escalation studios

which is a part of Bethesda

so its like a super rights nightmare

Billionaire company (valve), Billionaire's company (bad robot) and Billionaire company (microsoft)

[floral sandal]

so bad robot was literally just an ideas guy?

why did they get ownership then

[summer steeple]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[rare creek]

maybe they did the level design

[floral sandal]

I know there’s an interview with the passtime devs somewhere on YT, that might give some insight

also JJ Abrams apparently co-wrote the script for Gone Fishin’

lol

[summer steeple]

the fact that the pass time code is in the sdk might mean valve was able to get a deal with bethesda/microsoft for code ownership, if they didn't already have it

it might just be that the gamemode itself is owned by bad robot so they can't do anything with it

I think this is the closest valve has come to touching pass time content

[rare creek]

why didnt valve just fucking make it

[summer steeple]

they saw that it was stupid and wanted as little to do with it as possible

[floral sandal]

there was also the super8 promo, which is an Abrams film

[small siren]

*there was also the

super8 promo, which is

an Abrams film*

- protomojojojo

[floral sandal]

they had a working relationship

[summer steeple]

yeah valve just liked doing collabs a lot with tf2

afaik they never really did too many collabs bringing things into other valve games

letting other companies do things with valve properties they've always liked doing tho

see: Bill for L4D in literally every zombie/horror thing ever

portal in lego dimensions

[floral sandal]

I don’t think they had any involvement in those outside of greenlighting promos

[summer steeple]

yeah thats kind of what I mean

but tf2 was always different

[floral sandal]

passtime definitely took more heavy lifting on Valves part to include

[summer steeple]

like a solid 10 weapons are crossovers

machina, diamondback, short circuit, and widowmaker are deus ex,
koth_king and that whole update (neon annihilator, huo-long heater, red tape, flying guillotine) is from a sleeping dogs promotion

fan o war, conch, half-zatoichi, and kunai are total war shogun 2

cow mangler and bison were a collab with Weta Workshop, so not a game crossover but still a collab

thats 14 weapons

[livid urchin]

How is the testing going for net_queued_packet_thread=581304 ? I have heard that source network threading may not work as well on Linux clients, and I'm honestly a bit surprised that a debugging setting is the higher performance option. Is it all about allowing tons of split packets?

[summer steeple]

if you count reskins there's more, but the fact that 14 weapons in this game with different stats, sometimes completely different mechanics, are from collabs is interesting

oh yeah volcano fragmenr and sun on a stick are also promo weapons

so 16

the lugermorph, three rune blade, original, nostromo napalmer, maul, iron curtain, fish cake, apocofists, fortified compound, the big kill, the sharp dresser, black rose, enthusiast's timepiece, quackenbirdt, freedom staff, the ham, and the prinny machete are all the collab reskins i believe

[rare creek]

arent you forgetting something?

[summer steeple]

no...?

maybe?

[potent wolf]

wasnt the bison a collab with weta

and the cow mangler

[summer steeple]

^

[potent wolf]

im blind

[summer steeple]

i did like send 20 messages lol

as i remembered (looked on tf2 wiki) more

[radiant merlin]

The witcher 2

Game fucking sucks but it gaves us the three rune blade

Valve should have made scout say wind's howling

[left sand]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs-giFAtz0A

the tf2 black pill

lmao

[floral sandal]

without watching the vid, I can say that now that tf2 is practically open source, and the entire content repo has been out in the wild for years, whatever happens with live tf2 is mostly irrelevant as long as the economy ecosystem is kept in tact and there are no major security vulnerabilities

[eternal haven]

Guy in the video sonuds like BG Kumbi lol

[floral sandal]

I bet within 1-2 years most veterans and newcomers will have transitioned to teamcomtress or tf2c anyway

[potent wolf]

tf2 wont live forever

and thats okay :)

[floral sandal]

Valve would not have released the SDK if they felt they had major plans

[kind falcon]

hello jesty zesus

[floral sandal]

have not watched, groomer pedo + trash opinions

[kind falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

go on king

[floral sandal]

best case scenario: Valve oldheads and mismatched contractors like Mistyl, Eric, and possibly Jane(?) continue to properly curate and merge the best QOL updates into the SDK and base game. the community outreach required for that, especially down to specific commits for resolving source tech spaghetti, is not unremarkable

tf2 at this stage is a passion project

[rare creek]

they will continue to make their own fixes to the game occasionally

not that there's really a whole lot left to do

[floral sandal]

maybe they’ll be a large content update for the 20th anniversary similar to the Last Stand update for L4D2

but that’s likely it

[rare creek]

tf2 has mostly always been a passion project, the sdk wont change how the developers approach the game

[floral sandal]

idk, I hope I’m wrong

[kind falcon]

source 2 tomorrow

[potent wolf]

actually you know what tf2 needs to die immediately

[small siren]

*actually you know

what tf2 needs to die

immediately*

- replay

[rare creek]

TF2 will probably not get any more updates akin to ui scaling and 64 bit and sdk release just because there's simply like nothing more major things that can be done, but all of that has assured me that the developers of team fortress 2 actually care deeply about the game and support is guaranteed

[floral sandal]

I feel like tf2 went through a major identity crisis with growing pains (especially Meet Your Match and trying to shoein competitive ala Overwatch, Dota) but now the devs have mellowed out about the future

[velvet raft]

what do you want from tf2 dude, go play fornite

[rare creek]

?

[jagged pawn]

least confrontational mastercomfig server interaction

[rare creek]

im not really asking anything from tf2 anymore im just saying it's really good as is

[rare creek]

genuinely what do you mean by this

[velvet raft]

https://tenor.com/view/doesheknow-jojo-jojomeme-jojopart4-jojodiu-gif-9263250408288290101

[kind falcon]

do you at least know

[velvet raft]

what if we add the special infected from l4d2 onto tf2

[rare creek]

vscript

[velvet raft]

im going to script your v

[rare creek]

im just saying that valve has made so many good updates to team fortress 2 that they cant really make any more with the current people working on the game, what are they going to do port the game to 128 bit?

it's peak...

[velvet raft]

yeah i agree, i just thought you wanted Valve to add completely new and flashy stuff, based in your taste in games

[rare creek]

nah

[wild grove]

I want em to add sex wholesome 100 big chungus

[floral sandal]

holy fuck this video is bad on so many levels. and his logic does not make sense

unironically uses the terms “compf*gs” and “chud”, injecting slurs for no reason

claims tf2 is getting progressively more toxic (true in regards to steam forums but not a tf2 specific issue) and that game’s cultural degradation lies with continued abandonment. This is despite tf2 already being abandoned for years

the only point I’ll grant is that quickplay should be substituted back in, but I really don’t think it’s a catastrophic change. community server cliches exist

tangentially related: does the tf2 matchmaking system try to match you with people who are the same level? I always thought the leveling/xp system was pointless outside of indicating playtime

anyway

it’s so funny he complains about people being confrontational with him. “I rarely insult people directly for things outside their control like appearance”

he’s so sensitive

also I notice he has subtle southern drawl

[uncut spear]

valve players not say slurs they can't claim challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

[summer steeple]

"tf2 is getting more toxic" quote of man who uses slurs and sees no issue

[summer steeple]

99% sure its just SBMM, levels are for show

[small siren]

*99%

sure its just SBMM,

levels are for show*

- treacherousfiend

[floral sandal]

he seems proactive in talking so I’m curious if/how he responds

[small siren]

*he seems proactive in

talking so I’m curious

if/how he responds*

- protomojojojo

[grim parcel]

it's always been toxic. have you not heard the character's voice lines?

[uncut spear]

THATS WHAT I WAS THINKING

LIKE MY GUY YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM

[floral sandal]

left a long-ass comment. this dude is a fucking moron and I can’t stand to see people genuinely think or act this clownish

I can’t imagine how he acts irl with coworkers

[floral sandal]

(my comment)

I think he blocked me commenting LMAO

it disappeared(?)

ok it was length limit I think

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Rs-giFAtz0A&lc=Ugwuj-LzhF8n5eGjh7l4AaABAg&si=klXEl_gp5AVeuzem

[glass musk]

wha

yeah I don't see that happening, sorry

[uncut spear]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aYDBmnnrtA

anyways smthn cool

:3

[velvet raft]

he's just getting questioned and or treated the same way so he feels uncomfortable

[zenith hazel]

it's there but it's very loose i think

[left sand]

it has hidden mmr + they added some xp sbmm because people were complaining about seeing high levelled players in their lobbies

so even they had similar mmr, they had a high xp badge (they have tons of hours but still suck)

but still perceptually feels like unbalanced skill

and it may very well be

low mmr and high hours may mean you're skilled through experience but too inconsistent to rank up

[tacit flare]

How does one balance a game when people have free will and the ability to stack sniper and spy whilst ignoring the objective and doing nothing to help?

[left sand]

theres definitely a difference between the two, especially considering an imperfect mmr system

[left sand]

because it only takes one person to cap

as long as the team is fighting, they are helping you in some way

[broken haven]

i didnt even know tf2 had sbmm

well i dont think it rly matters in 12v12

[eternal haven]

Idk if it does

Either that or there just aren't enough good players playing casual

[small siren]

*Either that or there

just aren't enough good players

playing casual*

- mysterious_eagle_46873

[broken haven]

one player goofing off in 12v12 doesnt have as much weight as 6v6

[eternal haven]

I mean if you take any player from the top half of the scoreboard in uncletopia and put them in a casual game they will have no trouble being the best player in the server

and no matter how many times they are the best player on the team, they never start getting placed in casual matches with higher skilled players

I'm speaking generally of course, of course there are exceptions, but there's no general trend of increasing skill in the casual matches you get put in

[sonic cliff]

Kinda silly to say you aren't a bigot whilst brazenly saying the F slur over and over again lol

I sorta get what he's saying though, just worded in the most annoying way humanly possible

[eternal haven]

I can tell his iq is sub 100 just by the way he speaks

[livid urchin]

yep, it feels totally random with who gets placed on each team

[wispy meteor]

Does someone benchmark tf with r_lightmap_bicubic 0
r_radialfog_force 0 on and off

[left sand]

i dont think it has much of a perf impact

[eternal haven]

I tested it a little bit on the day the update came out and couldn't really notice a difference

in performance

also the radial fog only works on dxlevel 90+ so if you happen to be using dx8 that one shouldn't be relevant

[elfin isle]

Now that the dust has settled what are the thoughts on the SDK thing?

[small siren]

*Now that the dust has

settled what are the thoughts on

the SDK thing?*

- 1211gott1

[hidden gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-gif-25117042

[potent wolf]

it's pretty cool

[elfin isle]

Mods when?

[hidden gyro]

Now

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3545060/Team_Fortress_2_Classic/

Steam

Team Fortress 2 Classic

Team Fortress 2 Classic is a mod for Team Fortress 2 that re-imagines the early post-launch era — circa 2008 to 2009 — of the original game. Starting from there, we've added quality-of-life features, remade and reworked scrapped content, and built onto it with full-size updates in homage to TF2's timeless style and tone.NEW-OLD FEATURESMeet the ...

Release Date

2025

▶ Play video

[potent wolf]

now

https://discord.com/channels/389089828249010188/1341667410280972299

[elfin isle]

can i has promod

[uncut spear]

need someone to make a complete overhaul of the game where everything is back to caveman times

and you can play on official servers

[elfin isle]

i'd like inventory to be client side so the resupply script is instant instead of having to press it ahead of time, that'd be so cool

[potent wolf]

free vac ban

[uncut spear]

you keep your vac ban to yourself, I'll stick with my club

[summer steeple]

iirc both are dxlevel 95 or above only, probably mostly arbitrarily but fuck dx8

you want dx8 you get like 2 cycles off of your lightmap filtering

.000000002ms

[uncut spear]

https://gamebanana.com/mods/576594

what da fuck

[radiant merlin]

the witcher 2 aaa graphics

[eternal haven]

What the sigma

[paper sluice]

Oiled up and awesome

[uncut spear]

bro i somehow got my transparent viewmodels to not work now GRAAAHHHH

[eternal haven]

Sounds like an improvement 👍

[potent wolf]

average cringe dx8 user

[uncut spear]

also i'm joining a 2fort 24/7 server to test out solutions and man

the voice chat is making it so hard 😭

ok still doesn't work what the H dude

also with mods like this

can i put a . on the dir only so it doesn't load

[uncut spear]

nvm I fixed it

turns out this actually does smthn

oh wait no im DOUBLE stupid i think

cause i had post processing on medium when it's turned off for transparent viewmodels

this actually makes sense why trying to add transparency to another hud didn't work

also i might learn how to edit huds maybe possible idk

cause maxihud seems like a good hud to go to since I'm only stuck on budhud

but oh my GOD everything is so big 😭

[eternal haven]

you use linux bro

[uncut spear]

putting in a pr to the sdk to remove dx8

[rare creek]

team comtress 2 already removed it

[uncut spear]

but generally

[rare creek]

pr team comtress 2

to the sdk

[uncut spear]

REAL

[eternal haven]

Niterux fortress dxlevel 120

[potent wolf]

which means im not using dx8

therefore

[eternal haven]

maybe all linux users are just mad they cant use dx8

have you considered

[potent wolf]

maybe all windows users are just mad they cant use togl

have use considered

[eternal haven]

I used togl on mac just a few weeks ago

and it was ass

[rare creek]

you were playing on a mac

[eternal haven]

it was still ass

[rare creek]

yeah because you were playing on a mac

[eternal haven]

actually it wasnt a mac I booted mac os on a normal computer

[potent wolf]

no its perfect

[rare creek]

no shit it was ass then it was probably apple's anti virtualization

[potent wolf]

what do these words mean

[eternal haven]

idk

[rare creek]

idk

[uncut spear]

am i weird for using these when im on medium high

[eternal haven]

no that looks pretty normal

[mighty mesa]

No

[eternal haven]

you're weird for using outlines though outlines are weird

[mighty mesa]

I need to update my modules I think

[potent wolf]

good for trolling spies

[mighty mesa]

I did not know some of these are options

[uncut spear]

legit helps with spies

[mighty mesa]

does texture_quality exist???

That feels wrong idk

[eternal haven]

It was renamed to textures

pretty recently

[mighty mesa]

I feel like it was always textures

[eternal haven]

I don't think so

[uncut spear]

btw im using dev build

so there are ones there that aren't normally

[eternal haven]

wait maybe it was renamed from textures to texture quality

now Im confused

[mighty mesa]

I have always had textures in my config

[eternal haven]

https://github.com/mastercomfig/mastercomfig/commit/9049cfeefc29268bda698c64e092dbdfec4fec55

[mighty mesa]

Hmm

Guess so

Why is texture quality high in all of them and they only change the filtering

[eternal haven]

because there's an issue on dx9 where low and medium textures perform worse

like way worse

and high performs normal

[mighty mesa]

Really?

[eternal haven]

at least on windows on nvidia gpus, idk about others

[mighty mesa]

I've been running medium

[eternal haven]

I mean I assume that's why it was done

[uncut spear]

HUH

[eternal haven]

Idk if mastercoms ever commented on it

[mighty mesa]

You're just making a guess?

wut

[eternal haven]

the issue is very real

[mighty mesa]

Ok

[eternal haven]

whether that's why mcoms changed it to high, idk

[mighty mesa]

It probably is

Guess I'll have to change my config when I get up

[eternal haven]

or just use dx8 where low and medium textures perform as expected

[mighty mesa]

True

I don't remember what I use tbh

I don't think I bothered changing to dx8

I like the look of it even if it performs worse I will literally use worse graphics even if they give worse performance just because I like the crappy look

It's nostalgic in a way

[wild grove]

Youtubers try not to make people angry over the stupidest shit challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

[potent wolf]

not watching tf2 youtube is a proven way to improve ones mental health

[mighty mesa]

I never played when quickplay existed

[uncut spear]

making an hour vid of how tf2 failed by not adding fem versions of all the characters

[eternal haven]

You can downloadthem on gamebanana

Maybe tc2 should add fem pyro

[uncut spear]

not ALL OF THEM

[potent wolf]

shit you got to it first

[uncut spear]

there's like 2 mods 😭

[uncut spear]

ok NOW im making a github account

got a good pr

[rare creek]

puppygirl fempyro with mental hospital grippy socks

with huge tits

[eternal haven]

OK Niterux

Enough internet for today

[rare creek]

shut up im prompt engineering

[kind falcon]

jerkgineering

[wild grove]

I mean I enjoy soundsmith's content since it has the comfy vibe of friends goofing off.

[rare creek]

grok ai puppygirl fempyro with mental hospital grippy socks with huge tits

[uncut spear]

REAL

[wild grove]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[potent wolf]

honestly i like his non tf2 videos more

[wild grove]

yeah that extends to that too

the hitman one, I think there was that g-force one too

[left sand]

we need to stop with the sexual explicit and mentally deranged content

[left sand]

and combining the two is even worse

[rare creek]

im mentally deranged

[kind falcon]

dont give in

[rare creek]

im mentally deranged

[kind falcon]

resist vro

[rare creek]

resist what im mentally deranged

[kind falcon]

the grippy socks

[rare creek]

dont worry im never going to the mental hospital

im getting the grippy socks on amazon

[uncut spear]

if i was a part of that im sorry genuinely the girl designs that were made are cool and I'm a little sad it wasn't considered past the art

😭

actually pretty sure there was 3d models but again unfinished

wait is random crits in normal comp

[rare creek]

yeah most competitive leagues allow random crits

[uncut spear]

damn

[mental scaffold]

your dumb

[rare creek]

no im mentally deranged there's a difference

[rare creek]

why doesnt valve put servers in the pacific or atlantic servers so the ping is fair with my friends overseas

[kind falcon]

u have friends on christmas island?

[rare creek]

various people on my steam friends list are on christmas island

[merry vault]

Is there a post anywhere with numbers/how tf2's ground acceleration and deceleration ramp. Like its inertia.

Which Im assuming is at least part of the reason a/d spam isnt so bad in tf2, idk how much of that is animation choices.

[next nymph]

pretty sure the technical airstrafe documents tend to cover that

[merry vault]

The only thing that comes to mind along those lines is Kered13's airstrafing guide but I dont get the math tbh. Nbd since I just estimated it.
Using hand timing and host_timescale it seems like it takes ~0.13 seconds to go from 0 hu to top forward ground speed regardless of class and and 0.6 to 0.4 seconds to decelerate from max speed to zero.
Things got a little weird going below base heavy walk speed, for example revved Brass Beast taking ~0.95 seconds to go from 0hu to its max of 44hu.

[summer steeple]

keep pushing that baaaghhmb

[mental scaffold]

It's weird how engie lacks payload voicelines despite being the most popular class for this gamemode

[radiant merlin]

Couldn't come up with "moving back". Not enough "back" sounds

I only managed to get "Nice work. Bomb's moving..."

[radiant merlin]

ehhhh

[uncut spear]

windwaker tree

[velvet raft]

talking about wind waker

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2776856285

[uncut spear]

THAT GOES HARD

[radiant merlin]

i'd say that i'm willing to pay a voice actor to do some impressions but i'm broke af

[sonic folio]

i thought i was the only one experiencing this

[left sand]

no in fact, older versions of mastercomfig set texture quality to high because of this, but at some point it was set to lower quality because people were expecting that and i didnt think it'd be that bad

[oblique tangle]

source?

[drowsy marlin]

Source engine yes. TF2 runs on source

[tacit flare]

So.. when does Team Fortess 2 become Titan Fall 2?

Both achieved in Sorse

[oblique tangle]

you turned my joke into another

[unborn pecan]

Is this behavior still true? Should I set my textures on high on my laptop then?

[eternal haven]

Try it

Literally nobody who uses linux or AMD gpus has bothered to test it yet I don't think

Or if they have they've forgone posting here about it

Or they posted and I missed it idk

So far out of the dozens of people who have brought up the positive picmip performing bad, 100% of them have been using nvidia on windows, at least that I've seen

I guess I could install tf2 on linux and test nvidia there, don't have an AMD gpu to test that though

[drowsy marlin]

Could it be tested on steam deck?

[eternal haven]

If you're able to that would be neat

The difference (if affected) should be fairly noticeable

It can be tested just by running timedemos, there's a massive difference in the average fps with mat_picmip 0 vs 2

with 0 running much faster

[hidden gyro]

Who would win

Fish or Hot Hand

I'm guessing hot hand as long as the pyro can hit their shots

[oblique tangle]

bro i wanna slap some booty obviously

[high current]

I wanna fish some booty

[orchid sorrel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1285923139188035677/1345464876776030331/image.png?ex=67c4a550&is=67c353d0&hm=ffd8828fa47e639c213086d6990aac74e29a61c6bdb30a0d5d32fa26757d4fbe&

[rare creek]

who the fuck had the bright idea to call it this

i dont think i could have made a more suspicious sounding convar name if i tried

mostly because my vocabulary is very small

[mental scaffold]

are you saying you don't know what the fuck you're talking about

[rare creek]

i am going to cl_localnetworkbackdoor your computer

[eternal haven]

Btw you shouldnt enable it unless playing listen servers

It probably lowers your frame rate slightly

by like 0.00001%

[mental scaffold]

Your computer slowly loses framerate as it decays in your greasy ass basement

[next nymph]

cl_hackable 1

[broken haven]

cl_gamermode 1

[mental scaffold]

r_stickbug 1

https://tenor.com/view/stickbugged-gif-9606761188440012421

[potent wolf]

condump_on

not actually a convar but whatever

[rare creek]

wait that's hilarious the condump_on code is in the leaked source but not in the sdk release

[potent wolf]

???

yes it is

[rare creek]

leaked source

sdk

[potent wolf]

oh i see what you mean

yeah

[rare creek]

lmao

[potent wolf]

i wonder if they actually removed it from the game or just the sdk

[left sand]

probably the sdk

[potent wolf]

yep

thats so funny

[left sand]

i mean it has steam IDs

so

[potent wolf]

they could have just removed the array or something

[rare creek]

let anyone use it

easter egg

[potent wolf]

and also you can just get the steamids from the game anyways

[potent wolf]

like how coms reimplemented it?

[rare creek]

not anyone can use it

[fickle dragon]

So is it connected or nah

[rare creek]

is it possible to run a casual server from the sdk

[small siren]

*is it possible

to run a casual server

from the sdk*

- totallynotniteruxiswear

[potent wolf]

?

[rare creek]

is the code for casual servers in the sdk

[potent wolf]

idk

you'll still be missing the steam backend stuff though

which is the important part anyways

[rare creek]

why

[potent wolf]

because that's where the matchmaking system runs

[rare creek]

i dont care about matchmaking i just want a casual server that i can adhoc connect to

[potent wolf]

???

[rare creek]

is it possible

to make a casual adhoc server

from the sdk

no matchmaking

just the casual features and ui

[potent wolf]

iirc you can do that without the sdk

[potent wolf]

casual features... like matchmaking

[rare creek]

only if you reimplement it all in plugins

which wont behave the same as a valve server

[potent wolf]

no i think you can get the client to believe it's connected to a valve server

but idk for sure

[rare creek]

no the server wont behave the same as valve server

[potent wolf]

why don't you check the sdk and report back

[rare creek]

ok

[summer steeple]

I think by casual features they mean like the doors closing and stuff

plus there's some mechanics in the code which look exclusively for a casual server

[rare creek]

yes

[wild grove]

If I remember correct, someone was developing a plugin that was the whole ui stuff like the door opening and stuff.

[potent wolf]

well yes those are in the sdk code

[rare creek]

IDONTWANTA PLUGINioHJGUIOFRHJNGUIODFNGODF

[wild grove]

Showed it off here I think.

[summer steeple]

Was it the person who was like hacking their server.dll together to fake being a valve server?

[wild grove]

Think so?

I dont remember all that much.

[potent wolf]

did they get banned or am i misremembering

[wild grove]

If they were I wouldn't be surprised, but if they weren't... I also wouldn't be surprised.

[summer steeple]

i think so

so i'm looking at the code rn, and it seems like the client basically asks the server if its a casual server, but that code appears to have been stripped out

[potent wolf]

return true

[summer steeple]

you'd need to have a custom build of the SDK for both the client & server I think to get a server that is considered casual

[rare creek]

matchserver could also be referring to the xbox matchmaking

[potent wolf]

no this is the gc

[summer steeple]

yeah this function is used for theIsMatchTypeCasual and IsMatchTypeCompetitive functions

but in this case since it looks like the client's code has been stripped, at that point it'd probably be easier to just like comment out all of the if ( TFGameRules()->IsMatchTypeCasual() ) checks

although actually i don't see where the gate animations plays

[rare creek]

so it's fucking JOEVER

[potent wolf]

CTFHudMatchStatus::ShowMatchStartDoors

[summer steeple]

oh its also based on the match group

and guess what function GetCurrentMatchGroup uses!

[rare creek]

fixing bugs with casual will never be real 💔

[potent wolf]

so the answer is yes you can

the stuff that's missing is stuff to connect to the GC

so if you just replace that then it'll work

[rare creek]

i dont know how

[summer steeple]

gee i wonder if MyM was rushed

[tacit flare]

// I don't know why, I don't want to know why,
// I shouldn't have to wonder why, but for whatever
// reason this stupid panel isn't laying out correctly
// unless we do this terribleness

[uncut spear]

https://gamebanana.com/mods/485626

@cobalt spruce (sorry if you don't like ping) this might actually be my next hud :3

legit been on budhud for so long and I love it but I wanted to switch either back to vanilla or vanilla-like and this hud looks great

even supports transparent viewmodels which is a major plus in my book

berry nice job

https://comfig.app/huds/page/overwatch-hud/

also holy shit I thought this was goofy at first but this is really well made

damn

[oblique tangle]

community hud fixes

[uncut spear]

ended up doing centerhud

realized i'm not of fan of having everything all the way to the sides

[cobalt spruce]

that is uhhh

kiwami or something

https://tenor.com/view/kiwami-extreme-yakuza-like-a-dragon-sopranos-gif-7720700067238892381

[crisp cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/kiwami-no-kiwami-peaky-blinders-yakuza-like-a-dragon-gif-11422403649927029265

[jagged pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/yakuza-minecraft-green-gif-11477188721758196130

[crisp cedar]

i cant believe people hate the green filter so much that this is a thing

i think its good

[cobalt spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-hand-back-away-dog-leave-disgusted-gif-15798798190133447846

it looks horrible wdym

[jagged pawn]

I didn't even realize this was a thing

it's fine

especially compared to judgment lol

[cobalt spruce]

kinda fair

judgment is brown and blue and the remaster is just blue lol

[heavy solar]

@cobalt spruce has leveled up! (1 ➜ 2)

[small siren]

*judgment is brown and

blue and the remaster is

just blue lol*

- roseylemonz

[crisp cedar]

well judgment has the noir filter which i think fits fine

like judgment was actually carefully selected while kiwami 2 has just a green filter

which isnt bad but its not as thought out

[cobalt spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/throne-king-kiwami-yakuza-like-a-dragon-gif-9708981372568444578

[broken thistle]

oh damn they've actually started accepting pull requests on the sdk github

nice

[potent wolf]

am i going crazy or do demo files contain the stringtables twice

once in a netmessage, then again as a proper demo command

[potent wolf]

numbers!

[next nymph]

yup, those are numbers

on further investigation i realized i was mistaken. Those are strings

[potent wolf]

which are actually collections of numbers, terminated by the number 0

[eternal haven]

Is this for speed

or why tf they do it

[potent wolf]

it's for networked arrays

[eternal haven]

Well I mean why would they write out all the strings

Instead of forming them on the fly

I guess it must either be for performance or just not wanting to deal with the weird zero padded to 3 places but the ones over 999 are longer

[potent wolf]

idk

there are also two instances of the array for some reason

in dt_send and dt_recv

[potent wolf]

istg every time i use the demostf library i deal with weirdness

[small siren]

*istg every time i

use the demostf library

i deal with weirdness*

- (un)repro(ducible)

[potent wolf]

affirming my decision to write my own parser in c++

[rare creek]

no c++

[potent wolf]

yes c++

[rare creek]

write it in python

[potent wolf]

no that would have garbage performance

[rare creek]

exactlyyy

[potent wolf]

sorry but i actually like fast software

[rare creek]

cringe !!!!!

[potent wolf]

which is why my code looks like this

[next nymph]

yeah but those numbers are notated textually

numers arent real, they cant hurt you

[potent wolf]

if you remove the stringtables demo command the demo still works

[small siren]

*if you remove the

stringtables demo command

the demo still works*

- (un)repro(ducible)

[potent wolf]

removing datatables crashes the game though 😢

[wispy meteor]

Maybe stupid question but is the valve developer community an official valve site or one created by fans?

[potent wolf]

hosted by Valve but editable by anyone

[eternal haven]

Niterux created it (be sure to thank him)

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Developer_Community:About

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Developer_Community:Terms_of_Use

Click the 'history' button on any page to see which edits were made by which users

[radiant merlin]

https://youtu.be/k38mFjHFu-U?t=1361

[hoary geyser]

they have the entirety of regular show on youtube?

[radiant merlin]

yeah they decided to upload the episodes

[rare creek]

is that why all of the information on there is false?

[crisp cedar]

wtf thats fucking awesome

[cursive peak]

Did they upload the unaltered episodes?

[rare creek]

they look higher quality

[crisp cedar]

whatd they alter

[cursive peak]

"What in the H is this S?" got dropped from the first episode, several other lines were altered/removed. Don't recall all the changes.

[crisp cedar]

i think thats okay

i feel like cussing would kinda take away from regular show

[cursive peak]

No, it was literally H and S in place of obscenities.

[crisp cedar]

ah

[cursive peak]

https://regularshow.fandom.com/wiki/Regular_Show_Censorship

[crisp cedar]

they probably use the latest renditions of theire pisodes

[cursive peak]

"Don't look at our crotches while we synchronize our watches" is too good to drop.

[rare creek]

I had to reread this like 6 times to actually understand what this meant 😭

[potent wolf]

god case-insensitivity sucks

[left sand]

is this actually true

the kv cache is disabled no?

[rare creek]

I think they mean specific key names across all files

which wouldn't need to be disabled due to sv_pure

[rare creek]

no, case sensitivity sucks. if material proxies were just case insensitive then everything would be fine

[left sand]

no case insensitivity sucks, bad bait

[rare creek]

why does case insensitivity sucks

[left sand]

though tbh, case insensitive key lookups are good in some cases

well, case insensitivity causes stuff like this

though tbh, that bug paragraph seems wrong in some way

[rare creek]

but if everything was case insensitive then there would be no issues?

[left sand]

same argument for the opposite

[rare creek]

so is there anything at all that makes case sensitive better

[left sand]

yes precisely because of conflicts like this, case sensitive is way more intuitive

[eternal haven]

This is just for the UK version right

Apparently NTFS is case sensitive and windows just pretends it's case insensitive

[rare creek]

It seems to be correct

[potent wolf]

this is very sane

[rare creek]

Why does it even cache that like how does caching that increase performance

I don't understand why this cache exists at all

[next nymph]

you cache so you dont have to reparse it

[rare creek]

no

it always reparses because of sv pure

this is specifically a cache for key value keys that is like

looked up I guess???

after already parsing the key names??

that doesn't make any sense

[next nymph]

this would all be solved if we just removed casing from language in general

[left sand]

no i mean like

the description of the caching problem

the workaround can work without the explanation being correct

[rare creek]

maybe code that interacts with the keyvalue system looks into the cache and refers to everything by like an index or something instead of the whole string for performance

still weird behavior

[potent wolf]

no the keyvalues cache should be completely disabled

it doesn't make any sense for it affect anything

[rare creek]

maybe they did it so keyvalue files have a lower memory footprint

only needing to store an index for each key after deserializing

though maybe disabling it could cause more issues due to other parts of the code being case sensitive actually being fed a case sensitive input that was expected to be case insensitive due to the cache

:/

that is so stupid

[potent wolf]

???

[rare creek]

For example if a developer was working on assets for Team Fortress 2 and thought that the material proxy system they were using was case insensitive because older files + the cache were correcting the case, those materials the developer added with the wrong casing would break if the cache was removed

so if in their keyvalues file they had a key named "animatedoffsettexture" when other files loaded earlier refer to it as "AnimatedOffsetTexture", the cache would "correct" it to "AnimatedOffsetTexture", making the material work when it shouldn't

i hate that so much

i hate

furthermore adding "Health" to the gameinfo might break any code depending on "health" in existing keyvalue files being lowercase

so maybe the best solution is to just rename the proxy to something like "EntityHealth" or something so it doesn't conflict

[potent wolf]

what did he mean by this

[rare creek]

"EntityHealth" doesn't exist in any keyvalues in the game so adding a proxy called that wouldn't cause any issues and stick with the material conventions of everything being PascalCase

Will this be fixed in Team Comtress 2?

[oblique tangle]

it's hammerin time

[potent wolf]

I wonder if the next update will have the SDK PRs merged

[tacit flare]

As someone who isn't too familiar with GitHub, what kind of PRs have been merged recently?

[potent wolf]

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Amerged+

[summer willow]

someone said tf2 update?

[potent wolf]

yes titanfall 2 update soon

[tacit flare]

Thanks.

[cobalt spruce]

i hope they bring back emoji support on linux lol

since it is on the sdk, but not live for some reason

[potent wolf]

i wonder what broke

[summer steeple]

no update technically, just a changelist which is... not very helpful

but the last one (9 days ago) which iirc used to say the same thing with this whole unknown app business now says this

so i guess this is probably going to happen for like every tf sourcemod? who knows

its probably nothing

interesting that tf2c got lumped up in with tf2 on a changelist though, i wonder why

[potent wolf]

tf2 is gonna be turned into an sdk2013 app itself confirmed

actually that would be pretty cool

[radiant merlin]

like fortnite?

[potent wolf]

not really

it would just be sharing all the base libraries with other games

which source is built for anyways

@eternal haven why the frown 😢

[left sand]

its probably a frog branch

[potent wolf]

🐸

unrelated but what's the deal with newbitbuf

[left sand]

is that the one used in hunk

[potent wolf]

afaik it's unused in the tf2 branch

since it's missing a header

[radiant merlin]

they are testing the prs

i guess

[potent wolf]

next build will have 20 new rces

[eternal haven]

Wasnt there one of these changes like a week before the feb 18th update too

[potent wolf]

iirc yes

i assume the unknown app is a beta app or smthing

but idk for sure

[eternal haven]

I dont get it

[potent wolf]

one bit is already by definition a boolean, so it's effectively doing if bit == true return true else return false

[eternal haven]

oh

but you wouldnt be such a cool programmer if you just put m_bUserDataFixedSize = buffer.ReadOneBit()

the ternary makes you cool

[potent wolf]

😢

[potent wolf]

i really want to ask the person who wrote this line what they were thinking

also why does ReadOneBit return an int anyways

[eternal haven]

The implementation was written by a c programmer

[potent wolf]

boyfriend_read my behated

[rare creek]

im so good at this game

[potent wolf]

how hard would it be to replace netchannels with a different protocol 🤔

[eternal haven]

What does source 2 use

(idk anything about source 2)

[potent wolf]

netchannels 2

they still call them netchannels but idk how much has changed

anyways it seems like all the methods are virtual so it might just be a case of replacing the constructor

[rare creek]

replace netchannels with minecraft netty

[potent wolf]

doesn't minecraft use tcp

[rare creek]

no they use the netty library

before that they used some built in java thing

[potent wolf]

that's a layer up

https://minecraft.wiki/w/Java_Edition_protocol seems like tcp

at least for java

bedrock uses udp

https://minecraft.wiki/w/Bedrock_Edition_protocol

[rare creek]

i know they use netty or at least used it at some point ive looked at the code

[potent wolf]

netty is a layer above

[rare creek]

bedrock uses raknet

[potent wolf]

that

is a layer

above

[rare creek]

so that's literalyl wrong

wait it says it uses raknet on the page

port everything from netchannels to raknet

[rare creek]

yes

[potent wolf]

so bedrock uses udp

[rare creek]

does netchannels not also use udp

[potent wolf]

yes

[rare creek]

so they are both just using a layer above

i dont understand your point

[potent wolf]

i asked if minecraft was using tcp

[rare creek]

it doesn't use raw tcp it uses netty which uses tcp

[potent wolf]

so it uses tcp

[eternal haven]

Whats his face did a video about minecraft networking I think

live overflow

[small siren]

*Whats his face did a

video about minecraft

networking I think*

- mysterious_eagle_46873

[eternal haven]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhixgUqwRTjwvBI-hmbZ2rpkAl4lutnJG

[potent wolf]

omg hacks ban him

[eternal haven]

Yeah he talks about the network protocol a bit at the end of the first video

it looks way simpler than source engine

[left sand]

the protocol is pretty well formed in minecraft but unfortunately they dont have an entity system

every packet must be defined in the protocol

there's some unstructured data for entity data but it's not very well designed

[potent wolf]

you worked on a custom minecraft server right?

[left sand]

source engine is just ucmd and strcmds on client side and then like the server sends slop

[left sand]

yes

still technically work on it but mojang breaks everything every update

[potent wolf]

yes yes i love netmessages

[eternal haven]

wrapped with all the confusing compressed and split packet and net channels stuff

[potent wolf]

i love bf_read

[potent wolf]

that's the simplest part

[eternal haven]

It's confusing for me

[potent wolf]

netchannels are actually really simple, the code is just annoying to read

[left sand]

the only confusing thing is how bad it is

split channels have no handling for errors

surely UDP will send these packets in order, on time, and without any drops

[potent wolf]

out of order packets are stupid just drop them

[left sand]

rn we're just waiting for things to cool down

[potent wolf]

i never actually implemented split packets

[left sand]

also i believe source 2 is steam sockets native

[eternal haven]

does the compressed packets setting actually do anything

[heavy solar]

@eternal haven has leveled up! (28 ➜ 29)

[eternal haven]

in tf2

[left sand]

yeah

why wouldn't it?

[potent wolf]

yes

[left sand]

it uses snappy

it used to use something much worse

[potent wolf]

lzma?

[left sand]

but i think jill updated it to snappy

[potent wolf]

LZSS

i guess

[left sand]

but they never updated the compression max size back to 128

[eternal haven]

Idk I couldn't figure out how to make the game completely disable the compression

but I might be stupid

also don't remember very well

[left sand]

just compress your brain to remember more better

[eternal haven]

so true

[potent wolf]

i think my memory has got significantly worse in the past few years

[left sand]

need to defrag

the brain wasnt made to process the amount of information the shiny rectangle gives us

[potent wolf]

what you can't disable are splitpackets

grrr

i had to patch it out

[eternal haven]

Someone should do a complete write up of how the source engine networking works so I can read that instead of having to read the code

[potent wolf]

i considered doing that

but like

it would take actual effort

[left sand]

just read the Source Mutliplayer Networking article its entirely accurate and covers everythingggf

[potent wolf]

also it's like 3 layers of stuff half-glued together

[left sand]

its written by Valce sfotesre

[potent wolf]

and you can't really ignore any of it

[eternal haven]

dont think I could type software like that if i tried

[potent wolf]

sfotesre

idk man it's pretty easy

[left sand]

i mean youve got the net interface, netchannel, netchan, net sockets, net messages

what's there to not understand

[potent wolf]

make sure to ignore the networksystem folder

how painful are the csgo protobuf netmessages

cause at least with that you don't have the awful serialization formats, right?

[left sand]

no you do

and its actually worse

[potent wolf]

right?

SHIT

[left sand]

prepare for scratch messages

its like kernel binary blobs but for protobuf

[potent wolf]

i love it

[eternal haven]

Erm why does mastercomfig recommend against this and also use it

[potent wolf]

does it? it looks like it's been commented out

[potent wolf]

netmessages are soooooooo much fun

[eternal haven]

https://github.com/mastercomfig/mastercomfig/commit/2d2c90fffe305574fd45bc6daf9c9a583d965549

trollfig

[potent wolf]

also reliable transfers are STUPID

[left sand]

its being experimented with to see if the lag tradeoff is worthwhile

[potent wolf]

mastercoms exposed for intentionally making tf2 laggier 🙀

[eternal haven]

replay can you recommend me an ida plugin for dealing with virtual functions

[potent wolf]

i don't actually use ida for much

but what I usually do is just create a struct with the virtual methods, and make the class struct have a pointer to that

[eternal haven]

ok but I want somethign that does it automatically

tbh I don't understand why it's not built in functionality

[potent wolf]

i thought it did

if you create a virtual function in the structure

or was that just inheritance

[potent wolf]

looks like im wrong 😢

[eternal haven]

yeah idk

[potent wolf]

what do you actually need

[eternal haven]

I mean I just want something that automatically fills in virtual method calls

where possible I mean

like if some offset into the vtable is called, I want to be able to find that when looking at cross references to that function

[potent wolf]

yeah i just use a vtable structure for that, it's a bit annoying since there's a level of indirection but it helps that binja's xrefs are always visible so i can just click on the type and see it

so... simply use binja

there has to be a plugin for this though

https://github.com/KasperskyLab/hrtng

seems like this has some utilities related to vtables, idk how useful they'd be though

also i like the name

[velvet raft]

lawyer up?

[summer steeple]

trying to decide if this is better with context

[eternal haven]

https://tenor.com/view/homelander-the-boys-yummers-gif-730693117818784194

[rare creek]

engineer is the worst designed class in team fortress 2

[potent wolf]

- scout mains

[rare creek]

my friend who is new to team fortress 2 tried playing engineer and they hated it immediately it's just not well designed

[potent wolf]

your friend is a scout main

[rare creek]

ok explain to me what about his design makes him fun and engaging not frustuating

[limpid panther]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNgNBsCI4EA

[eternal haven]

@rare creek Meet the engineer

[potent wolf]

eat the engineer

[summer steeple]

holy shit this joke is so much funnier to me with the starboard post completely failing to embed a youtube video

[eternal haven]

I think that's just how it works

[summer steeple]

I wasn't expecting it to just put like half the video description down

[eternal haven]

I don't think you can embed a video within an embed

[summer steeple]

probably not

also i just realized that in that description they call it a turret and not a sentry gun

[eternal haven]

Me when I pick the engineer class so I can build my turret contraption and smack it with my wrench

[rare creek]

?

[haughty musk]

Oh shit I went to bee cave TX once, thinking about it. They aren’t wrong

I think it was called bee cave, there’s like 3 “cave” towns

Yes yes I have

[wild grove]

Not a bad beginner class to play tbh, medic would prolly be better though to see how people play the game while still contributing.

[zealous pond]

Engineer is fun whenever you want to turn your brain off and farm kills on bad players.

Especially if it's a map where you can just put a sentry outside spawn and sit inside with Rancho Relaxo.

[tacit flare]

Unfortunately I exist to encourage so called engineer mains to try out pyro.

[zealous pond]

I have to move playing Pyro.

And Pyro sucks.

[potent wolf]

its only one key

[tacit flare]

When is pyro getting a melee that removes sappers on half clicks?

[mental scaffold]

never.

the idea that there's another class other than engie that can actually remove sappers is hilariously bad

[next nymph]

nah i like pyro having some team utility conceptually

its not great when sappers are one of the only reliable ways for sentry nests to get dealt with in pubs, but a sentry nest + babysitting pyro is already spy resistant and also takes a player essentially out of the fight

[tacit flare]

Pyro having team utility? Yes.
Pyro doing a function of engineer better than him? No.

The fact I can die, see on the spectator cam that our teleporter entrance is being sapped, switch class to pyro, then respawn only to run over to it and remove it in a single swing is dumb.

Taking less than 3 seconds to unsap an entire nest is dumb.

[next nymph]

i mean i wouldnt really care if the homewrecker took the same number of swings as wrenches, the homewrecker is still a relatively niche weapon and destroying sappers is relatively binary as it is even with multiple hits needed

[mental scaffold]

It's just dumb to see Spy have so many things to weaken him more than he already is. Even more so if you think that Pyro is already his best counter and that this item removes sappers in the tap of a button

[rare creek]

spy should have the sapper removed he is overpowered

[mental scaffold]

you should be removed

[next nymph]

i gotta say it, the problem with spy is that hes fundamentally based around:

• being annoying to play against
• having such distinct mechanics that his balance revolves around hard counters
  unironically the only way to successfully navigate this balance quagmire would be to remove the spy (but that's not a realistic option so we're kinda stuck with him being underwhelming and not too obnoxious as the best compromise)

[mental scaffold]

If Spy gets removed should we remove Sniper and every other classes that TF2 players gets annoyed by (all of them)?

[next nymph]

i dont mean "remove spy because hes annoying" i mean "there is no way to fix spy without making the game worse"

[mental scaffold]

I already believe that there's an alternate universe pub Heavy mains got a rage boner so hard they stormed the valve office to remove everything that inconvenience them ever so slightly and balance the game around them just because they hate everything

[rare creek]

engineer has the same issue except engineer also has the issue of being really annoying to play as

it's hard to have fun as engineer especially if you are new

[mental scaffold]

Spy is one hell of a balancing mess. I think it's okay that he is weak but I don't think giving classes ways to counter each other is good game design, at least not as far as how I see most current counters is just damage resistances and fucking over Spy's cloak

[rare creek]

and dont know which spacing to put your buildings in so they both dont get destroyed too fast but also get some use out of them

[next nymph]

yeah i agree but i dont think its as bad as spy's is

[mental scaffold]

It's hard to find engineer fun if the players you fight against aren't braindead lmao

[next nymph]

but like, you cant really balance against spy without hard counters. Invis is a weird thing that any counter needs to specifically be coded to negate, same as sappers, same as backstabs, etc. It's not like other classes where you can balance them by fiddling with damage numbers

spy's whole design identity leads to this issue inherently

[rare creek]

i hate valve so much why do they make so many items not MARKETABLE but TRADABLE so you HAVE to use 3rd party shady ass stupid ass sites wtf is that BULLSHIT

and then they just handwave it all away be like "ooh not our fault!"

if you reach out to valve they'll be like "nah bro 3rd party site" which is fair but please stop designing your systems to encourage them

[radiant merlin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep8R3EWc3Nc

[summer steeple]

yo wtf this is really cool

[left sand]

i mean, does vvis actually take any time for anyone?

[summer steeple]

depends on the map

[left sand]

isnt a long vvis time a sign that the map is poorly optimized?

[small siren]

*isnt a long vvis

time a sign that the map is

poorly optimized?*

- mcoms

[summer steeple]

I'd say most of the time yeah

but also some people are making maps on like decade old laptops

[eternal haven]

What's the step of compiling maps that takes ages

[summer steeple]

VRAD should take longest if your map is well optimized and also not like massive

also depending on what quality settings you have on in vrad

[small siren]

*also depending

on what quality settings

you have on in vrad*

- treacherousfiend

[eternal haven]

Yeah idk, not a mapper personally but I remember people talking about some phase that you want to turn to highest settings when creating release versions of maps

that takes a long time

[summer steeple]

vvis doesn't really have many settings

so its probably vrad

[summer steeple]

I was curious, so I decided to compile upward to see how long a valve map would take to compile. 32 minutes 19 secionds VVIS time, 1 minute 5 second VRAD time, HOWEVER the decompile I had on hand was before bspsrc supported visclusters, and my CPU is around 7 years old at this point now

so faster VVIS would be appreciated imo

I also posted this vid in the tf2maps discord and the consensus there is that its probably fake because:

• VVIS probably wouldn't parallelize on the GPU very well
• They don't actually show it working, instead showing the compile time and the portal file as proof that its identical, but the portal file is created by VBSP (can't believe I missed this one tbh)
• This person seemed to just showed up out of nowhere with 0 credibility or prior work

but we shall see i suppose

there is also a closed PR from 4 days ago on the SDK repo for GPU vvis, but it might just be something completely different, since that person has a different username, and seems to use CUDA, while this video's description and the author's comments say that they couldn't get CUDA to build

(also that PR seems like it was never intended or at least wasn't ready for the SDK repo when it was posted, since it was closed by the author and renamed to "oops ignore this")

(also also they removed the valve copyright info from all the files they changed for some reason which is weird)

[next nymph]

if it is fake, what an oddly specific thing to lie about

[summer steeple]

true

I think more likely if its not real its probably not malicious and rather than they're not doing it correctly

[potent wolf]

is the new vrad 64bit?

[summer steeple]

i think all the map compilers are

they're all in bin/x64

[potent wolf]

neat

[uncut spear]

https://gamebanana.com/tuts/17740

they added a spanish translation

this is epic

[potent wolf]

?

oh that's odd

where is Sys_Error even defined

ewwww it's in engine no wonder

[summer steeple]

i was more posting for the ifdef

[terse lintel]

With the SDK out would anyone know where to start figuring out why you can sometimes shoot through walls? (If someone is slightly behind a wall and you shoot from far away) https://youtu.be/_SJsI5ATrxM

[radiant merlin]

That's an issue with the soldier animations. If they didn't stick out too much there wouldn't be an issue

[rare creek]

turn him into a pencil

[tacit flare]

So.. I was just in a casual lobby and a russian just crashed Steam for eveyone in the server.

[radiant merlin]

clearly it was you

[tacit flare]

Everybody's russian my friend.

Still, had to manually restart Steam and TF2 to get back in

[radiant merlin]

the sdk effect

[floral sandal]

new SDK merges by Mistyl

[potent wolf]

"Sync the public SDK with latest from TF2"

interesting wording there

[floral sandal]

seems like there's about to be an update

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/commit/a62efecf624923d3bacc67b8ee4b7f8a9855abfd

cannot find the original scattergun pred fix or minitusk user

but cool

[unborn pecan]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1055994572385304586.gif?size=48&animated=true&name=STEAMHAPPYSPIN

[wild grove]

Okay so this confirms that tf2 sdk is gonna be updated with tf2 whenever tf2 updates (I mean obviously right?)

[unborn pecan]

hopefuly

as long as they care

[potent wolf]

what the fuck

[summer steeple]

don't uh, don't worry about it

here maybe this will give more context
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1039243316920844428/1347769987062038558/2025-03-07_20-15-49.mp4?ex=67ce599d&is=67cd081d&hm=670b551fae1c20bbbce00dcd589faff954d6005d2da99e23fd76892acf473944&

[potent wolf]

what the fuck

[eternal haven]

That is not normally....

[summer steeple]

don't worry about it

[left sand]

look out for that sentry buster!

[livid urchin]

no ramp bug fix or 1 tick reload lag fix feelsbadman

[potent wolf]

is open fortress gonna be open source

[rare creek]

yeah

[potent wolf]