Team Fortress 2 Megathread - winter is the most chill time of year

[kind falcon]

i have a bind on my mouse that opens notepad when i press mouse4 so i can fake rce

more money earning methods in bio 👉

[left sand]

i think they removed most of the staging only?

[summer steeple]

its possible, I saw that there were still some references but i didn't look very far into it

uhhh, did valve completely break any protections SDR had for not leaking your IP?

I noticed on my profile that no matter what options i changed, launch options i changed, etc. it just showed my actual IP as the connect link

gonna need to start going invisible i guess...

like even in game the status command showed my local ip but my profile join link just showed the actual one

hidden lan server with no steam networking btw :/

unless somehow the steam website just shows that IP if it detects you're on the same IP address, which would be stupid

[eternal haven]

Are you launching game with enablefakeip?

[summer steeple]

I was and then i removed it but I think actually i mistyped it

added underscores between the words

i'll need to try it again

[eternal haven]

I wouldnt be surprised if you still need that

or at least need to start a server with sv_use_steam_networking 1 prior to ever net_start

[naive prawn]

are you not able to play tf2 demos in tc2?

[potent wolf]

does it not work?

[naive prawn]

no

something about tf2 and tc2 being different file paths

im rebuilding, ill try to send the output

COM_CheckGameDirectory: game directories don't match (tc2 / tf)

the demo is in my tf2 directory

same error if i try it in tc2

[potent wolf]

open a hex editor and replace tg with tc2

probably still wont work cause of this though

but try it

[naive prawn]

doesnt work

[naive prawn]

??

[eternal haven]

I got this when I tried to play a tf2 demo in mod_tf with source sdk 2013

I just skipped it and it worked after that

but idk maybe comtress changes would break stuff

[potent wolf]

oh its in in engine?

nice

wait no it is in engine

hacker

[eternal haven]

https://tenor.com/view/soobfad-druski-gif-25646977

[summer willow]

oh wait

LOL

#1341667410280972299 message

[naive prawn]

wait why are there 2 mega threads

[potent wolf]

Team Fortress 2

Team Comtress 2

Titanfall 2

[naive prawn]

ahh

[half rose]

interesting

[potent wolf]

?

[summer steeple]

not really, its kind of just for compat purposes

i think the tools like the particle editor still require 32 bit, this just makes it easier than setting up your own bat file for the 32bit exe

[livid urchin]

is there documentation for the new sdr client commands that were added recently? I only see server-related documentation.

[eternal haven]

The sdr stuff has been around for like multiple years at this point

I think you can just type sdr and press tab to list all the options

Most of them are named in a self descriptive way

[left sand]

theyre documented in the open source repo by valve software

[eternal haven]

The gamenetworkingsockets one?

Or I guess you meant this

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master/src/public/steam/steamnetworkingtypes.h#L1139

?

[velvet raft]

is this Apollo?

lol

[potent wolf]

yep

https://gyakutensaibanlibrary.blogspot.com/2016/07/gyakuten-saiban-4-blog-entry-3-about.html

it's from this

[velvet raft]

https://tenor.com/view/dgs-dai-gyakuten-saiban-apollo-justice-tgaa-the-great-ace-attorney-gif-22040060

[potent wolf]

lmao

[velvet raft]

a lot of apollos it seems

[velvet raft]

i love him because he's one of the only 2004 characters i know

[potent wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/apollo-justice-ace-attorney-dead-died-dual-destinies-gif-25248913

[velvet raft]

thanks, do you have some for chronicles?

[velvet raft]

i wasn't the one in a plane

https://tenor.com/view/athena-dizzy-knocked-out-dizzy-girl-gif-15209774951999544198

[potent wolf]

i don't have anything for that, but the ace attorney discord has this

[velvet raft]

he disappeared

where is he??

[potent wolf]

dead

why does steamdb have this lol

[naive prawn]

Has anyone else encountered a bug where your kill sound plays but your target doesn't actually die? I want to see if its just me or not before I open an issue or something.

I've noticed this most frequently trying to destroy buildings

[livid urchin]

I've had it happen with engineer stuff

[potent wolf]

omg i just realized the funny tf2 logo spinner thingy is now in the sources

they did the math

[rare creek]

yeah :)

[potent wolf]

i remember reversing that lol

[rare creek]

so is cdimmerbutton

and now we can see they hardcoded absolutely everything in cdimmerbutton

they could have just added it to the mainmenuoverride .res file and let hud mods edit it

but no 🙃

[eternal haven]

Erm what the sigma

https://github.com/mastercomfig/tc2/commit/be23581a43ffba339f5c0f250f0dda5bf650722a

[potent wolf]

mastercoms exposed

[kind falcon]

aga

[potent wolf]

VPC_ENABLE_CCACHE 🤔

[eternal haven]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-noted-glorp-noted-glorp-noting-this-down-alien-cat-gif-11958671377507601335

[potent wolf]

can't figure out how to get it to do anything though

nvm i figured it out

VPC_ENABLE_CCACHE="1"

or anything greater than 0

why isn't this enabled by default 😭

wait its broken hm

ccache thinks everything is uncacheable

for some reason

oh i guess ccache doesn't support pch what the fuck

[left sand]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/4625855867810542022/

[potent wolf]

I agree, if windows users want to play it they can use tools such as WSL

[eternal haven]

🐧💻 Why Valve should drop TF2's support from Windows in favor of Linux
Hey TF2 Gamers,

Today I'd like to explore a fascinating idea with you all; whether or not Valve should drop Windows support for TF2 in favor of Linux; here's why I think it would make sense...

1. Performance boost; Linux tends to run better, with even greater selections of hardware, than the same hardware would ever run on Windows. This could solve the evercoming issue of TF2's struggles to perform on newer hardware.

2. Privacy and security; Linux has a priority for privacy and security over Windows, and by changing their stance to exclusively support Linux, TF2's playerbase will know that their data is safe and respected by Valve.

3. Sustainability; Linux has already been proven to be a lifesaver for many systems running older hardware. As the looming threat of newer hardware becoming less and less compatible with TF2 approaches, exclusively focusing on Linux would be a great idea -- as Valve's own official gaming computer runs on their own Linux distribution!

4. Promote technical skills; A great portion of TF2's community runs off of what the community produces with their know in tech, such as custom maps and cosmetics. With Linux, technical know-how is encouraged and promoted, and a new golden era of TF2 community content could awaken.

While there'd be some challenges to overcome, the benefits of Valve switching to Linux would be greatly lucrative for the TF2 community.

What do you think?

[kind falcon]

please no linux

[potent wolf]

what about freebsd

[kind falcon]

please dos

[left sand]

theyre remaining adamant that their tos is valid

[grim parcel]

no hardware acceleration in browsers == more mappers

[heavy solar]

@grim parcel has leveled up! (54 ➜ 55)

[grim parcel]

we did it reddit

[mental scaffold]

niterux moment

[next nymph]

is this chatgpt

[balmy root]

show your support 👍 https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/7091

[balmy root]

normally those kind of posts are the inverse (why valve should drop tf2's support from linux in favor of windows) xD

[rare creek]

I think the steam networking should still default to on because the main option to run a level literally says "create server" and many people over the years have been confused why that doesn't allow them to play with friends

[misty plover]

That's not what they're talking about though

If you do IE: map itemtest it makes a public server anyone can join, that shouldn't be the default

It should be if you use the create server button though

[rare creek]

why not

[wild grove]

The issue and idk if anyone has thought of it yet but the game doesn't have a full maplist to go off from if you're in a listen server by default, meaning everytime you want to change maps that aren't on the small list, you'd have to type "map X", and if thing change gets added, you'd also have to enable steam networking over and over although I suppose if the maplist was also updated to be bigger, I would agree with the change.

[eternal haven]

Because people don't expect it

Before, you had to launch with -enablefakeip to have a publicly visible/joinable server created by typing map itemtest

Now that's the default, just by typing map_itemtest and having sv_cheats enabled, anyone from the public can execute arbitrary console commands in your game and probably other stuff too

Which is not something people expect

[potent wolf]

if map == itemtest then disable sdr

easy

[eternal haven]

Tbh people didn't really expect the old behavior either

I remember joining a few sdr itemtest listen servers a while back and people were surprised about it

even though they had gone out of their way to add -enablefakeip to launch options

I think sv_lan should be default 1

[unborn pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-bus-grumpy-car-driving-gif-9267379998701770684

[wild grove]

I thought it was.

You telling me it isn't?

[eternal haven]

Pretty sure it's default 0

They still havent fixed sv_lan lol

[potent wolf]

not using binja smh my head

[eternal haven]

Me when I join sv_lan 1 servers on my public address within 192.169.0.0 - 192.255.255.255

[balmy root]

I'm also talking about that

both create server option and via console

I believe you should check a box (set a convar) if you want to make your server public

[sterile ferry]

what could possibly cause black lines on my screen bruh

was slenderman close by

[eternal haven]

The new shaders

[sterile ferry]

true

[balmy root]

flashlight module enabled?

[rare creek]

are you on linux

[sterile ferry]

windows 🙏

[sterile ferry]

no

[potent wolf]

So how does the whole SDK inventory thing work

is it possible to restore the live tf2 code and use that

[paper sluice]

Idk

I read somewhere that it’s a read only version so I assume it just checks the items game and then checks your steam inventory then says yeah looks about right

[left sand]

It uses the Web API

Then it uses like a special GC function seemingly to get a ticket from the server and then the GC

so like the client can't lie about their items

[eternal haven]

What the cringe

[left sand]

restoring the live TF2 code would be illegal

[potent wolf]

but is it possible

[left sand]

Yes obviously

[potent wolf]

without using leaked code?

[left sand]

you could paste the whole tc2 code into the sdk and build it

and then itd work

without using leaked code it would be hard and also i think just their license makes it illegal to mess with econ like that

[potent wolf]

hm i guess it's a matter of if you would need to reimplement parts of gcsdk

[eternal haven]

Well you could implement it but it would still be against steam ToS

[potent wolf]

You are entitled to use the Content and Services for your own personal use, but you are not entitled to: (i) sell, grant a security interest in or transfer reproductions of the Content and Services to other parties in any way, nor to rent, lease or license the Content and Services to others without the prior written consent of Valve, except to the extent expressly permitted elsewhere in this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use); (ii) host or provide matchmaking services for the Content and Services or emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Valve in any network feature of the Content and Services, through protocol emulation, tunneling, modifying or adding components to the Content and Services, use of a utility program or any other techniques now known or hereafter developed, for any purpose including, but not limited to network play over the Internet, network play utilizing commercial or non-commercial gaming networks or as part of content aggregation networks, websites or services, without the prior written consent of Valve; or (iii) exploit the Content and Services or any of its parts for any commercial purpose, except as expressly permitted elsewhere in this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use).
I guess it would fall under this part

so strict 😭

oh on an unrelated note it seems like the version of VPC used in the sdk is from csgo

so i guess they backported that

[left sand]

i thought it was source 2

well i suppose csgo had that

[potent wolf]

what are source 2 bundles

[eternal haven]

Team comtress should use its own GC

Who needs valve

[potent wolf]

against tos smh my head

[left sand]

we need the GC to grant items

we can't grant items outside their GC

[eternal haven]

You can grant items

[left sand]

no you can't

it's against their terms

[eternal haven]

They will be mastercoms items

Who needs valve items

[left sand]

then we're just making hazard crew

on a worse engine

[potent wolf]

hazard crew on source 2 when

oh hey that rhymes

[left sand]

what ears does that rhyme on

[potent wolf]

ears?

[left sand]

thats how i hear rhymes

ohhh i see

sorry I thought you meant crew and when

but you mean crew and two

[eternal haven]

Hazard Crew 2

[left sand]

its like helldivers 2

[potent wolf]

im eminem i can rhyme crew with when

[left sand]

whhhennana

[eternal haven]

https://tenor.com/view/wildfireuv-gif-26419248

[left sand]

why did it take so long

https://tenor.com/view/saminzo-turning-his-ears-gif-25939684

[balmy root]

you can the tell it's windows due to the font size of the health bar

[balmy root]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-car-stupid-car-stupid-cat-silly-gif-6759433648041742530

[eternal haven]

The windows fonts were so perfect before the vgui ui scaling update and then they ruined them

[heavy solar]

@eternal haven has leveled up! (26 ➜ 27)

[rare creek]

????????????

[eternal haven]

They used to be nice and sharp

Now they're blurry always

even with antialias 0

[rare creek]

they look better to me

[eternal haven]

I mean it's nice that you can scale them bigger

But too bad it made them blurry no matter what even at normal 100% scale

[drowsy marlin]

So with TF2 SDK being released, what does this mean for future TF2 updates?

[potent wolf]

nothing really

[drowsy marlin]

Idk how the versioning would work. If TF2 updates, can mods made with the SDK require updating as well?

[eternal haven]

Valve probably just released it to make things easier for tf2 classic and open fortress and stuff

[potent wolf]

no, they're not tied to tf2

[eternal haven]

Nobody really knows if valve will push tf2 updates to the tf2 sdk as ewll

hopefully they do

[potent wolf]

the sdk is a completely separate thing, valve may update the sdk, but they don't need to

[drowsy marlin]

Ohh

[potent wolf]

we'll just have to wait and see, we don't even know if they're accepting PRs

[drowsy marlin]

Well knowing Valve they'll support it for a bit and then leave it alone

[small siren]

*Well knowing Valve they'll

support it for a bit and

then leave it alone*

- fraklin

[drowsy marlin]

Honestly that applies for most things

People make cool things and eventually abandon it

Better enjoy it while it lasts

[eternal haven]

Does anyone know what "isproportional" "only" in a tf2 font definition does

Or what the other options are in place of only

[potent wolf]

seems like there's a reference to it in the csgo src, so maybe take a look at that

[rare creek]

It stops the game from generating entries to non-proportional versions of the font

[eternal haven]

OK that seems right

Do you know what else can go where only goes?

[rare creek]

"no" which seems to be the default

[eternal haven]

:D

Thx Niterux

I guess it seems like the "antialias" option is just ignored on proportional fonts

since the vgui scale update

[rare creek]

based

[eternal haven]

I think it still works on non proportional

[rare creek]

that's aweosme

[eternal haven]

prior to the update it worked on both

[rare creek]

i hate aliasing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[eternal haven]

No it's absolutely awful

before you could choose

to have the antialiasing applied or not

now the choice was removed

[rare creek]

Ive been removing anti aliasing for years......

[eternal haven]

yes

but you now can't

on proportional fonts

[eternal haven]

Niterux is there any way to make a different font get used for proportional than not proportional?

Similar to how you can do different fonts based on screen height

[rare creek]

no

[balmy root]

https://tenor.com/view/seal-seal-emoji-seal-google-emoji-noto-color-emoj-animated-gif-15031667953171697071

I <3 Noto fonts

[potent wolf]

is there a way to disable pch project-wide in vpc

[potent wolf]

nvm getting ccache to work with it seems like a better idea

[small siren]

*nvm getting

ccache to work with it seems like

a better idea*

- replay

[merry vault]

Can someone eli5 to a layman the impact of open sourcing the TF2 SDK?
I know that the TF2 SDK code "sits on top" of the closed-source Source Engine code. But then Source Engine being closed-source doesnt matter (for TF2) because all of TF2's code runs on top of the open-source Source SDK Base 2013 Multiplayer?

[kind falcon]

they both sit on top of the same thing thats closed source

[potent wolf]

i think i got it

just had to

[old radish]

https://docs.comfig.app/

[potent wolf]

LOL

[rare creek]

[old radish]

https://docs.comfig.app/

[rare creek]

yippie

[languid haven]

anyone notice that using legacy opengl mode that performance is just so much worse than it used to be?

i'm getting like between 15 and 25 fps. idk what happened it used to be at least 60 to 90. sure vulkan is 60 to 140 but isn't weird that it used to be over 300 fps during the 64 bit beta?

[rare creek]

it's called legacy for a reason! it's not supported anymore

[north void]

okay now I know it's obs that's causing issues with my game capping at 60 fps being displayed

idk why tho

[eternal haven]

Are you windows or linux bro

[potent wolf]

macos of course

[eternal haven]

Maybe he actually is

OBS has massive overhead on macos

Any screen recording does but OBS is especially bad

Actually I guess it's better on the ARM macs now but on some Intel ones you couldn't even get a 60 fps recording of the screen

[glass musk]

everything is at least 5x better on arm macs

[oblique tangle]

why does it look better

oh my god

my ass just finding out about mapbase

[glass musk]

so like

is ficool cool

or nah

one would assume that he's cool based on his username

[radiant merlin]

he's fi cool

[tawny gate]

he's fecal

[misty plover]

Yeah but he's pretty busy and keeps to himself most of the time

[orchid sorrel]

https://streamable.com/xqw519

[balmy root]

is this team comtress 2?

[kind falcon]

Wtf stop Cheating!!!!!!!

[lean cove]

where's this from

[kind falcon]

my jouse

[radiant merlin]

what's the condition ghosts apply when they scare you?

(no jokes pls c:)

[cursive peak]

https://www.twitch.tv/rglgg

It's Steel week, the best week.

[radiant merlin]

scary cond

rce the user pc if used

[potent wolf]

DEFINE_SCRIPTFUNC( FiringTalk, "Makes eg. a heavy go AAAAAAAAAAaAaa like they are firing their minigun." )

[summer steeple]

does not make heavy go AAAAAAAAAAaAaa :(

[balmy root]

was made for heavy
does not work for heavy

https://tenor.com/view/sad-steam-steam-sad-gif-9524752141311518885

[balmy root]

(moved to #1343802340179705856)

[eternal haven]

What makes you think it changed?

[velvet raft]

omg

[mighty mesa]

whats with these funny macros in the code ive always wondered

#ifdef CLIENT_DLL
#define CTFBat C_TFBat
#define CTFBat_Wood C_TFBat_Wood
#define CTFBat_Fish C_TFBat_Fish
#define CTFStunBall C_TFStunBall
#define CTFBat_Giftwrap C_TFBat_Giftwrap
#define CTFBall_Ornament C_TFBall_Ornament
#endif

[potent wolf]

actually no i lied

[left sand]

client classes

[potent wolf]

yeah but in this case it's just a weird naming change that doesn't affect anything afaict

is it just a consistency thing or something

[potent wolf]

Potential scam sent by @kind falcon was deleted.

[kind falcon]

github blocked

nice

[mighty mesa]

whoa/

[kind falcon]

    {
        fireInfo.m_iTracerFreq = 2;
    }```

    tc2/src/game/shared/tf/tf_fx_shared.cpp

[potent wolf]

@left sand when do i get the valve private key :(

[mighty mesa]

2032

[kind falcon]

2025

jan 3

[eternal haven]

Does anyone know if tf2 server downloads the item schema

If it does, maybe we could use that same method to make web api requests in mod_tf dedicated server

dedicated server works completely fine apart from web api

even sdr works on it

[potent wolf]

well

it's a gc message

OH

looks like it uses isteamhttp

econ_item_system.cpp:581

it's using the same api except for the function call to get it 🤔

the heck is SetGameserverFlag, though

[eternal haven]

Idk but I think with a little bit of changes it should be possible to use that on a game server right?

Oh also mod_tf compiles completely fine without the steam sniper docker image

I just compiled it normally

[potent wolf]

yeah

[eternal haven]

had to install ninja and libsdl2 and it just worked

[potent wolf]

it'll compile, but it's just more painful for distribution

[eternal haven]

true

anyways this items thing on dedicated server should be really not too bad to solve

I'll try tomorrow

Oh also vac works on dedicated server

Idk if it works on client I didn't really wantto test

[small siren]

*Idk if it

works on client I didn't

really wantto test*

- mysterious_eagle_46873

[potent wolf]

coward

[eternal haven]

I can make an alt and test it

[grim parcel]

stored in the balls

[kind falcon]

encrypted with the balls

stored in the piss

[oblique tangle]

tf2c

TF2 classic HAS A STEMA PAGE‼️

[burnt dragon]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3545060/Team_Fortress_2_Classic/

Steam

Team Fortress 2 Classic

Team Fortress 2 Classic is a mod for Team Fortress 2 that re-imagines the early post-launch era — circa 2008 to 2009 — of the original game. Starting from there, we've added quality-of-life features, remade and reworked scrapped content, and built onto it with full-size updates in homage to TF2's timeless style and tone.NEW-OLD FEATURESMeet the ...

Release Date

2025

▶ Play video

link for those who want to wl it

[oblique tangle]

awesome saucers

[crisp cedar]

cringe now has a steam page

[oblique tangle]

?

[jagged pawn]

well that was fast

[rare creek]

valve is probably going to ask them to change their name I think

[paper sluice]

They already have the steam page 😭 probably not

[glass musk]

this will be TF2 physics in 2018

[rare creek]

counter strike classic offensive had a steam page before valve asked them to change their name to classic offensive to prevent confusion with counter strike

[fiery kindle]

Changing the name requires valve to care about tf2, so I don't think a name change is likely

[rare creek]

i mean the sdk release and update proves that they care about tf2!

[fiery kindle]

if anything its valve saying please stop bothering us

[potent wolf]

and 100players and vscript and 64bit and the bot fixes

idk

[fiery kindle]

all done by a contractor who picked up the game and wanted to marginally improve it in his spare time at valve?

its been almost a decade since valve even gave the pretance of caring, why would that change now

like the comic + sdk is really valve saying we are done, heres the source code so you can make you're own stuff if you really want, now please stop emailing us about the heavy update thanks

[eternal haven]

Valve cares about tf2 more than literally any other company cares about any 17 year old game

or 18 year old game

[rare creek]

not really imo

makes patches way easier to contribute I imagine that valve is going to be way more active with the community now

the sdk took a lot of effort to release

[fiery kindle]

when has valve ever been active with the community??

[eternal haven]

All the time

[rare creek]

yeah they regularly include community maps

[fiery kindle]

like aside from scraping the workshop?

[rare creek]

yeah they included a bunch of patches from mastercoms in the 64 bit update

[potent wolf]

remember that they didn't have to release the sdk at all

they could just stop updating the game completely

shut down the game coordinator

goodbye tf2

if they wanted the community to stop bothering them then they would have killed the game or stopped updating it

[eternal haven]

They post about community events and stuff on their website, include community maps and items, accept patches and fixes from the community, provide services to the community for free

What more do you want from them

[rare creek]

yeah they do like as much as they can to interact with the community now outside of like a ama or somethin g

[burnt dragon]

holy heck this is like bad water but instead of bad water graphics its like toilet water

[fiery kindle]

aside from bugfixes they did stop updating the game; but they will never kill tf2 not while its economy is so tied up with conter-strike's and dota's

[eternal haven]

Thats why they call it bad water

[eternal haven]

They haven't stopped updaing the game though

[rare creek]

they never stopped updating the game??

[eternal haven]

It's more than just bug fixes

in fact all the new features have probably introduced more bugs than have been fixed

[rare creek]

they made the game actually bearable on 4k monitors

[fiery kindle]

the last notable and not just fixing or tweaking things was blue moon back in 2018??

[potent wolf]

how is vscript not notable

[rare creek]

you are a bot sent from twitter to the mastercomfig server to troll us and waste our time and cause infighting

[fiery kindle]

im really not

like ill drop it to avoid annoying people

[rare creek]

id even argue that the fixes and shit they've done take way more effort than any balancing changes ever have

they fixed the bots they updated to 64 bit they banned macos players they released an sdk fixed ui scaling added vscript what more could you ask for

oh and they released the last comic!!

fuckign

webm support they added webms to the game!!!!!!!

[left sand]

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/commit/abf6b4542e819edf3c9854a7a24c141a429739e3

[potent wolf]

oh?

well, i guess that means they're accepting prs to sdk2013

but will they merge changes to tf2

[rare creek]

yeah :)

as the world is so joever... tf2... a beacon of light... has never been so barack

🖊️ 🔥

[left sand]

im not sure how fast things will be accepted though

into tf2

so i might continue with the tc2 hard fork

[fiery kindle]

okay that's pretty neat :3

[left sand]

i mean, i think the only thing that would be valuable to players at that point would be balance changes and more risky changes that valve wouldnt accept

[rare creek]

I think pull requests will have a higher chance of being accepted if they are actually good and not buggy and breaking things

[potent wolf]

???

[left sand]

hm?

[eternal haven]

Still no Niterux fortress

Where is it

[rare creek]

i gave up on programming

ill never be a real programmer

[summer willow]

lets goo

[rare creek]

💔

i see how it is jakez..

[potent wolf]

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/commit/c496173cf3efd6b41c1071b538968c5468b47aad

now i guess we wait and see if it gets into live

[radiant merlin]

wait so this means valve won't pay me 1000$ for my hard effort?

shame

[left sand]

only ficool PRs will be accepted

[rare creek]

slop codebase incoming

[summer willow]

oh no

i was saying to valve merging pull requests

[oblique tangle]

yall need to pull some maidens

[summer willow]

you can be a good programmer if you want

i was looking on what you been doing and its a lot more than i do in general being "not quite programmer"

which doesnt mean much but well

[glass musk]

huusk

can ficool stop being so cool... https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/pull/824

[left sand]

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/pull/625#issuecomment-2683373497

holy shit its real

[potent wolf]

soon

i hope

[glass musk]

billions must create good pull requests

[wild grove]

So I assume PRs for the sdk is gonna be also used for the main game right?

[left sand]

it says it can be used for the SDK repo and "other Valve projects"

so yeah its not out of the question

also afaik, misyl really wants to have this be the way to do things

[rare creek]

stolen from XONOTIC smh

[glass musk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xooMXyleXM

[glass musk]

would this also show for enemy players? https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/pull/824

[rare creek]

yeah why not

[potent wolf]

i think it does

but that boolean is evil

[glass musk]

that's shit if it does

should make it team only

[potent wolf]

why

[glass musk]

VC icon is team only, and idk, you could kill people when they're typing

or be killed when you're typing

[tacit flare]

Valve would add this, see it reveals enemy spies and do absolutely nothing about it for 10 years.

[potent wolf]

it doesn't

you can be killed when you're typing anyways

because you're standing still

[glass musk]

yes but this will tell others you're typing

[uncut spear]

I'm skeptical about it appearing when you just open chat rather than when you're typing

[green tulip]

what about team only for team chat and team only for normal chat if all talk is off?

aaa I've been awake too long idk if my message takes into account the whole PR or whatever else

[glass musk]

yop, this would be good

I think I will buy myself a Döner tomorrow

self care day

[paper sluice]

Team fortress 2 classic will be changed to classic

[paper sluice]

Yeah and then they’ll spare you to see what you say and if it’s funny enough they might spare you

At least I would 😝

[potent wolf]

true

i would kill you though

[glass musk]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-microwave-burnt-bye-cat-gif-25613088

[paper sluice]

Newer super team fortress 2

If you get that dm me immediately

[north void]

lol I finally figured out the issue and its an obs issue actually

the refresh rate is locked to whatever monitor obs is on

so when I keep the window on my 60hz monitor it locks tf2 to 60hz

[eternal haven]

Are you using like a really old ass windows 10 build

That used to be an issue

like 5+ years ago

I think they fixed it

there's also some nvidia setting you can change to fix it

or you can use real fullscreen instead of fake

[north void]

uhh i cant remember when i last updated but windows was last installed like 2 years ago

also i use AMD

[eternal haven]

Oh idk then

[north void]

dunno if my vulkan issues are related at all though

[balmy root]

@left sand https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/pull/625 maybe add new values to skip only specific hints individually too?

from the top of my head, in addition to power-up canteen, I also remember Grappling Hook and Spellbook

[left sand]

that's in the PR?

[balmy root]

no

currently, you can only skip only the power-up canteen or all of them

you can't like only skip Spellbook or only skip Spellbook+Hook without Power-Up Canteen and so on

that's what I mean

also, probably a good idea to add FCVAR_ARCHIVE so it gets saved to config.cfg

[left sand]

those combinations aren't relevant to any gameplay case

the checks are individually skipped but yes theres only 2 for all

1 for the mvm case

2 for anything

[balmy root]

fair argument, I agree

[potent wolf]

woah

[radiant merlin]

https://fxtwitter.com/DidTF2GetUpdate/status/1894565966765535481

You were right

[mental scaffold]

Surely VALVe will look at this and think it's worth listening to the community

[kind falcon]

Posted by Zesty Jesus.

wow thats a real person

[glass musk]

@kind falcon you are real

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/pull/845

[mental scaffold]

i think i am

[unborn pecan]

He is such a chud

[mental scaffold]

You tell me

I've seen him being so insufferable over and over

[oblique tangle]

20 minutes

[hoary geyser]

what

[oblique tangle]

i edited the photo posted up above

[burnt dragon]

valve released SDK out of FEAR of him!!!!

john gaben himself just got up his chair and clicked the button to release the sdk and ban bots

because thats how it works

rahhhh

[mental scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/this-fucking-sucks-crying-girl-tears-of-joy-clapping-danny-devito-gif-12766761978490409957

[high current]

I’ll stand by the sentiment that anyone in the US with minute plus wait times is doing something wrong.
Maybe lesser populated regions of the world, but in the US: just select something other than mannpower mode and you’ll get less than 1 minute queue time, often less than 10 second queue time.

There’s a lot to complain about but wait times in TF2 and casual ranks aren’t them.

[eternal haven]

If you have like 5 people the queue times are pretty long

but yeah for solo it's usually 10 seconds when everything is working good

[orchid sorrel]

Even ignoring queue times theres a ton of fat that could be trimmed

Servers end too early, pre game lasts too long, map vote is too slow

[wild grove]

Only time I feel matches end early is capture the flag and even then, players artificially extend it by not capping.

[eternal haven]

Bro I've seen capture the flag go on forever

[orchid sorrel]

Ctf is like the only one that doesnt end early lol

Well i guess the good ctf maps end early

[eternal haven]

There are no good ctf maps

[orchid sorrel]

Wrong

Applejack and double cross

Owned

[eternal haven]

Idk what applejack is

[orchid sorrel]

🚬

[eternal haven]

doublecross is mid

[orchid sorrel]

Noob

[orchid sorrel]

Giga noob

[eternal haven]

Oh I know this map but didn't know what it was called

It's alright I guess

they added it pretty recently right

[orchid sorrel]

Ye summer 24

[orchid sorrel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480079567458140171/1344378941498068992/Team_Fortress_2_02-26-2025_19-49-29-0-00.00.25.007-00.00.29.103.mp4?ex=67c0b1f5&is=67bf6075&hm=e1778bb09d8c66c18439fffe0e959fef138a9d3762be959827911fe853101388&

[heavy solar]

@orchid sorrel has leveled up! (61 ➜ 62)

[orchid sorrel]

https://imgur.com/hi57MqN

[rare creek]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1281424851382308937/1289750166173253706/type_with_paws.gif

[high current]

I don’t really think it’s super necessary. Literally every multiplayer game I’ve played has at least a minute of character selection (even games where you can swap characters), like 2 minutes of waiting for the guy playing on a floppy disk to load in so everyone loads together, a minute or two of setup time, and usually longer queue times from the get go.

Being able to jump around the map and play the game without the objective for a minute or two (almost never goes to double or triple waiting for player time) is a better use of time than any game I’ve played and people who complain honestly just need to stop.

It could be sped up sure. But I don’t mind playing the game for one minute with no objective. It’s just not a concern that crosses my mind

I’m going to start holding my breath during waiting for players times when I play casual on stream just so people who complain can see how petty they’re being.

[orchid sorrel]

The minutes add up, especially when youve come from a version of the game that didnt have all of these time wasters

Its just extra bloat with not much benefit

[fiery kindle]

honestly i do wonder how many of people here defending casual over quickplay, actually played the game during the quickplay era?

because coming from quickplay to what we have now is just a straight up downgrade imo

even when the matchmaker is at its best

[high current]

I have played since the MvM update in 2012.
I’ve seen the opposite honestly, most people who want quickplay back started playing post MYM

ADHOC is what people want back. Literally everything else about quickplay was just aspirations of what the casual system is now.

[fiery kindle]

not really, the whole way quickplay worked is what people really want back imo

[heavy solar]

@fiery kindle has leveled up! (1 ➜ 2)

[high current]

Can you elaborate

[eternal haven]

Do you really want to be randomly dumped into a community server?

There are so many community servers that are absolute dogshit

[fiery kindle]

the fact that it just placed you into a game, without any faff from sbmm

[eternal haven]

It's way preferable to carefully select the server(s) you want to play on

[fiery kindle]

this was not an issue from 2014 onwards

[eternal haven]

IMO anyways

[high current]

Sbmm is pretty negligible in casual

[eternal haven]

And ad hoc connections encourage people to leave and join in the middle of matches, the matchmaking makes it where most people join at the start and many stay until the end

And you still have the option to play on ad hoc servers

You can choose

Now we have more choice than existed before

[orchid sorrel]

What ad hoc servers lol

[eternal haven]

Every single community server

Every single non valve server

[orchid sorrel]

The community badwater with 4/32 players?

[eternal haven]

There are many active community servers that provide a vanilla or roughly vanilla experience

[fiery kindle]

yes but pre-mym, they could be found the exact same way as valve servers

[small siren]

*yes but pre-mym, they

could be found the exact same

way as valve servers*

- .rocketdwarf

[high current]

That’s not casual’s fault. That’s literally community servers ruining their reputation with valve

[eternal haven]

Valve removed community servers from quickplay before switching to casual matchmaking didn't they?

Or I mean made it valve servers only by default

[fiery kindle]

now they are fully segrated off in the server browser

[high current]

Community servers were removed from quickplay before MYM

[tacit flare]

Invasion Moment

[eternal haven]

Which provides a better experience than being randomly dumped into a server that has a high likelihood of being trash

[fiery kindle]

they were still eligible, but it only looked for valve servers by default

[orchid sorrel]

No they added a check box to let you choose

[fiery kindle]

you had complete freedom of choice

[eternal haven]

You have complete freedom of choice right now

[high current]

Just like how people still actively queue for the misc map category now…

[eternal haven]

Literally the only thing that was removed was valve providing servers that allowed ad-hoc connections

[fiery kindle]

really? try dueling your friends by choice

[eternal haven]

Nothing else was lost

[orchid sorrel]

The dumb round limits were also added

[high current]

Uncletopia

[fiery kindle]

they litterally changed the entire flow of the game

[eternal haven]

And in return you gained the option to play matchmaking if you like

[orchid sorrel]

They made more sense when you couldn’t leave

[fiery kindle]

on a valve server

why should a core feature of game be segragated to community servers?

[high current]

Cuz people rarely actually did that and if they say otherwise they’re lying. Just look at how many people requeue when their party gets broken

[orchid sorrel]

Why is team switching disabled nowadays anyway

[high current]

And cuz I can stack the hell out of a server and ruin everyone’s fun if you give me the option to

[fiery kindle]

cuz it breaks the matchmaker

[orchid sorrel]

Why would the matchmaker care about anything besides player count

[eternal haven]

source?

[high current]

“I hate getting rolled but I wish valve would readd the feature that allows for team stacking”

[velvet raft]

engine

[orchid sorrel]

True its better to have a 4v8 you are very smart peaches

[small siren]

*True its better to

have a 4v8 you are

very smart peaches*

- drcactus

[orchid sorrel]

Thanks bot

[velvet raft]

why so passive aggressive dude

[high current]

Recent update massively improved filling empty player slots

And team balancing was pretty quick to act before tbh

[velvet raft]

https://tenor.com/view/oppenheimer-cillian-murphy-barbenheimer-barbie-oppenheimer-movie-gif-14455380668331281856

[eternal haven]

I guess the ideal thing would be if valve changed half of their servers to be ad hoc with team picking enabled

Then everyone would be happy

They don't need 10000+ casual servers do they

surely 5000 is enough

[velvet raft]

how many people play tf2 weekly?

[orchid sorrel]

I just think casual can be improved lol

I dont even want qp back

[high current]

I mean it could be streamlined. I just don’t think it’s nearly as much of an issue as everyone says it is. People just like complaining

[eternal haven]

Tf2 community is full of professional complainers

[tacit flare]

Casual destroying the community server hubs was the biggest loss in my opinion. So many communities faded away.

[orchid sorrel]

yeah its all just complaining for the sake of complaining

ok

[high current]

Casual did absolutely nothing to community server hubs other than provide a better alternative

[left sand]

a full quickplay revert is dumb, the old quickplay algorithm was bad too, i think casual can just be made more like quickplay. dump the match concept because that's not what tf2 casual is about, and then rework it from there

[eternal haven]

I legitimately think they should have both

casual and a 'quickplay' like thing

[left sand]

add a system where community servers can participate in casual

[eternal haven]

we could see how many people play each

[left sand]

theres really no reason for both, you just make a good system for jumping into tf2

[eternal haven]

there is a reason for both

[rare creek]

we need an html vgui panel to add mastercomfig quickplay into tf2

[eternal haven]

some people want to play matchmaking with matchmaking rules, some people don't

some people want to play one sometimes and the other other times

[tacit flare]

Why yes, completely diverting all players to dedicated Valve servers and cutting off access to being put into community servers had absolutely no impact at all.

[eternal haven]

why not just put 2 big buttons in the menu

a matchmaking button and a quickplay button

[high current]

Honestly just remove the mainmenu and just drop people directly into a game. Remove the disconnect button and requeue buton.

[left sand]

doesnt make sense to me because theyre not mutually exclusive

[eternal haven]

they pretty mcuh are

[potent wolf]

using an outdated version of CEF with like 20 vulnerabilities

[eternal haven]

all the quickplay complainers also dislike the other parts of casual

apart from the matchmaking

they dislike the autobalance and the disable team picking and the no ad hoc and everything about casual

[left sand]

wait how does vgui work can i make a panel that just renders with another ui library

[heavy solar]

@left sand has leveled up! (84 ➜ 85)

[rare creek]

yassss queeeeeen 💅 👑

[left sand]

or can i only do primitive draw commands

(not texture copies)

because unfortunately gameui is engine only

so you cant override the main menu

[rare creek]

source already has a html vgui but it's a bit hard to work with from what ive looked into

[left sand]

no that one is fake

[rare creek]

huh?

how?

it borrows steam's cef

[left sand]

its fake

[rare creek]

oh okay

[left sand]

okay but whats mutually exclusive there?

also quickplay had autobalance

[rare creek]

idk maybe it's not possible 💔

[eternal haven]

I mean what are you suggesting?

Keep the casual matchmaking but enable stuff like team switching and ad-hoc connections?

[left sand]

a system thats actually good

coming soon ™️

[potent wolf]

imgui integration with vgui when

[left sand]

no sorry itll be chrome again

[potent wolf]

all the cheats just submit render commands directly 😔

[eternal haven]

hot take maybe but the imgui ui is really not that good

like it doesn't communicate things as clearly as other UIs

[potent wolf]

oh yeah it's terrible

[high current]

Casual did not cut off access to community servers. We have said like 8 times in the last 20 minutes that it was removed from quickplay before MYM.
“But there was a checkbox-“
No one clicked it, it may as well not have existed, if you were going to queue for a community server during QP you used the server browser which is how community servers currently are.

And valve just made queuing for their official experience a better user experience. I would bet both my testicles that at no point did anyone at Valve say “when we implement casual, make sure we divert people away from community servers”

If community servers were as thriving of communities as people suggest, they wouldn’t be dead. Look at the ones that are currently surviving, they’re mostly Casual+, the major servers that died were ones that were monetized out the ass and were fun for 30 minutes until RTD and lag from everyone having custom particles got old.

[potent wolf]

only good thing about it is that it's easy to integrate and develop for

[eternal haven]

I guess it gives the impression that everyone likes it

just because it's so easy to use get started with so everyone uses it

[fiery kindle]

people did use it tho, not tons sure but enough that servers post MyM reported player count drops as high as 70%

[high current]

Who reported that

Skial? Monetized out the ass and spammed custom particles

[eternal haven]

Casual probably saved tf2

I bet there would have been under 10k players by now if not for casual

[high current]

Why would you use the community server checkbox in quickplay if you were going to connect to a server whose community you were a part of? You’d just connect to them via the server browser because they’d be on your favorites.
It just doesn’t make sense

[fiery kindle]

that is a scolding hot take and a half

and wrong at that

[eternal haven]

And it's probably true

[high current]

I stand by that

I’d go so far as to say if valve reimplemented quickplay as it was, TF2 would die within 2 years.

[eternal haven]

You guys are just hating casual without reason at this point

[fiery kindle]

so many people left post MyM

[high current]

For reasons not related to casual in its current implementation

[eternal haven]

You dislike some parts of casual so you delude yourself to the point of absolutely hating it and everything to do with it

and aren't able to see that it had benefits too

[left sand]

TF2 had and always had EXTREMELY HIGH churn

[high current]

A lot of people’s favorite playstyles changed in MYM

[potent wolf]

I hate casual because whenever I play TF2 i'm at the bottom of the scoreboard

[left sand]

you gotta realize, you're a minority of the playerbase that continues to play the game past 10 to 20 hours

casual improved that, reduced churn

because it was a much better experience for new players

however, TF2 just doesn't have the appeal of modern titles

[high current]

People don’t want quickplay back, they want playing videogames in 2012 back.

[left sand]

especially for the asia market

TF2 is a very western focused experience and doesn't have the appeal like many other games like league, val, overwatch, dota, fortnite, etc have for a broader playerbase

some of the classes were specifically designed for a 2006 kind of gamer

[high current]

Even if you did hypothetically revert back to quickplay. People would still be the sweaty tryhards that are complained about. People would still be toxic over poor performance. People would still quit after every capture point lost. Etc.
Gaming culture is different than it was 15 years ago.

[left sand]

and a western kind of that

i still do think something was lost

with community servers

we need a way to revisit designated hubs

and build friendships over time

[eternal haven]

nonsense https://www.moddb.com/mods/chicken-fortress

[high current]

I think so as well. But I don’t think MYM is what killed them

Honestly I think a lot of community server players either had children and real careers and moved on, or started playing competitive TF2.
Mutually exclusive of course.

[tacit flare]

So many modern games have stripped almost all community features away. You play your game then banished back to the queue.

[high current]

It’s more profitable to control everything in your game.
Don’t hate the game, hate capitalism.

https://tenor.com/view/soviet-cat-sovicat-soviet-ussr-cat-gif-3531724627123465264

[left sand]

not really

[eternal haven]

riot games would profit more by allowing community valorant servers ✅

[left sand]

erp server

[rare creek]

valorant hvh

[tacit flare]

Though it is ironic. All these new games, and yet TF2 persists, often times outliving them.

[potent wolf]

that would be cool

[left sand]

its not though

thats like saying cod4 outlives games because people play it

[eternal haven]

nobody plays cod4

tf2 has like 1000 times as many players as cod4

[small siren]

*tf2 has like

1000 times as many

players as cod4*

- mysterious_eagle_46873

[left sand]

yeah but thats just an exaggerated example, cod4 isnt a live service

i could name p much every live service and theyre all more popular than tf2

[eternal haven]

tf2 would be many times more popular than cod4 right now even if valve had shut down all servers years ago

[left sand]

idk about that

[eternal haven]

people would just play on community servers

[left sand]

with no hats

[tacit flare]

Overwatch "The TF2 killer" somehow having to die then relaunching with lootboxes returning was funny.

[eternal haven]

it would probably only be 5k players but still way more than cod

[left sand]

i think people would give u p

[high current]

TBH, I think Valve fumbling Valve Comp probably saved the game. As far as I can think, TF2 is pretty much the only casual-first multiplayer fps in a market smothered by competitive shooters.

[left sand]

thats an exaggeration

like a crude exaggeration only used by tf2 players to help them cope

[tacit flare]

Was more quoting Star_ there but yeah.

[high current]

Eh overwatch pros also so the game is dead, but that’s because as a pro it basically is

[eternal haven]

Idk if it's cope to say tf2 outlived overwatch

[left sand]

overwatch is still really popular

[rare creek]

nuhuh

[left sand]

and its not a bad game

[high current]

Overwatch still has more players than tf2 concurrently iirc

[tacit flare]

Imagine what TF2 could be if Valve didn't leave it in decay for a decade though..

[high current]

Honestly it’d probably be a mess

[left sand]

valve tried for years to grow tf2 and it didnt work

[eternal haven]

^

[high current]

Look at CS2

[left sand]

why do you think it would work now in the last decade

it is just an extremely flawed title at its core

[eternal haven]

tf2 is kind of just a finished product more or less, valve would probably have to just make a new game if they wanted to seriously grow it

[left sand]

which is deadlock

[rare creek]

tf2 is a shower not a grower

[high current]

I think it Valve leaned into the casual play style of TF2 it could probably be successful. But I’d be happy calling casual tf2 complete tbh

[left sand]

the characters aren't diverse enough (not diversity meme, but like literally it doesnt have broad appeal, its like a joke that's only good for maybe 10 years but the internet has moved past that, same will happen with skibidi toilet)

[high current]

Deadlock is not going to overshadow TF2 imo

[left sand]

the items system is really convoluted and weird to any new player, since you have to unlock fundamental aspects of the class or pay for items which is not a good look to a lot of people

[high current]

I think it’s going to be way less successful than people think and TF2 is going to remain at the same player base it always has

[left sand]

the very fact that you can change loadouts for a singular class is really unfamiliar to a lot of people, people prefer distinct characters per kit

[eternal haven]

Idk bro

a lot of games let you change weapons

[high current]

Weapon unlocks aren’t really a unique idea to most gamers tbh. Nor is putting things behind play walls / pay walls.

[eternal haven]

^

[left sand]

thats not my point lol

[high current]

And most the core features of classes your referring to are things that new players wouldn’t even be aware of existing.

[left sand]

nor am i talking about like cs

[eternal haven]

okay I see your point but it takes someone like a couple sessions of playing to learn how tf2 items work

and it adds extra depth to the game

[left sand]

but its bad depth imo

[eternal haven]

I think it's good

[left sand]

yes the depth is like oh i dont know what abilities this guy has bc i dont know his items

wow

[eternal haven]

you learn that easily

[left sand]

literally 0 decision making besides playing conservatively for every possible case

[eternal haven]

when I started playing tf2 I was not confused or feeling like I didn't know what abilities a class had

[left sand]

in overwatch and val, the abilities are per character which makes them much more flashy and makes people more comfortable

thats really not what im talking about

im not really talking about conscious choices people are making

[tacit flare]

As in, all of that is irrelevent anyway. Doesn't really matter how popular TF2 is, people will come and go, it won't ever reach the insane levels of the latest and greatest games, but the spirit is something that will persists after many of them have burnt out.

[left sand]

im talking about something much more innate to data flow in the game

[high current]

Weapons unlock videos is what got me into TF2 tbh. I watched mincraft YouTube play borderlands with Jerma, which led me to watching weapon unlock videos, which let me to Star discussing weapons in MvM and that got me to try TF2.

Without weapon unlocks I’d still probably just be playing battlefield hero’s or Roblox

[eternal haven]

so you're saying tf2 is held back by certain abilities being per weapon rather than per class?

[left sand]

yes

[eternal haven]

I guess I just don't agree

[left sand]

i mean, it might have been cool for 2007

but just look at p much any game

theres a reason all of them do heroes instead of unlocks

[eternal haven]

it doesn't take very long to unlock all the weapons you want

[left sand]

theres not only benefits to readability at a subconscious level, but its also good for marketing, economy

[eternal haven]

or buy them for 2 cents

[left sand]

unique animations, particles, tells, you can know the realm of each hero instantly

[glass musk]

off topic but who's excited for Valve Deckard? will you guys be buying?

[left sand]

each hero can be balanced outside of just stats alone

they can be balanced holistically

[glass musk]

mcoms, are you also interested in how they managed to make VR run well on Linux,

[eternal haven]

the weapon unlocks also give new players an incentive to keep playing

[left sand]

its just a weird system

[high current]

I think flashy abilities like you’re saying are very split on opinions.
A lot of people complained about every ability in Valorant, OW, Pladins, etc for being too prevalent, even if not OP.

Sure weapon unlocks are nuanced but they’re also less influential than character abilities usually, so you have a harder time learning them but you’re punished less by not knowing them.

I don’t think either is necessarily an inferior system, I think they’re two different styles.

[eternal haven]

and if anyone's annoyed about not having a weapon, 2 cents, big deal

I like the system

[left sand]

i have literally surveyed like

thousands of threads on the general internet about tf2

[small siren]

*thousands of threads on

the general internet

about tf2*

- mcoms

[left sand]

the common sentiment is 2 things

[eternal haven]

okay but most of those people would play tf2 for an hour and then put it down and never play again

even if it didnt have weapon unlocks

[left sand]

uhuh

oh that game with the pay to win items
oh that game with the random crits lmao and they wanna make it an ESPORT?

well, theres also a third thing

haha funny youtube poop

but thats not about the game

[left sand]

i mean idk

i would say people are much more comfortable with the hero approach

[small siren]

*i would say people

are much more comfortable with

the hero approach*

- mcoms

[left sand]

its obviously way more successful

[eternal haven]

the weapon unlocks are just not that big of a deal for anyone who intends to play for longer than dozen hours

plus the base weapons are already perfectly good

[left sand]

you are ignoring most of my points about unlocks

[eternal haven]

can you restate one or two of them

[left sand]

spy with feign death vs spy without feign death

sure, it adds "depth"

but all you have to do is assume the worst

[tacit flare]

I thought Overwatch had an issue with new heros either overlapping previous heros, or being a balancing nightmare?

[left sand]

and its just annoying

[high current]

When were these forums from? Because I feel like anyone in the modern gaming sphere basically wouldn’t notice the differences in weapon unlocks. When compared to abilities in other games where some shouts something and you have to know to break line of sight, rush them, get out of an area, shout back at them, etc.
Some guy with a rocket launcher that does rocket launcher things but maybe if you squint it looks a little different is going to feel not even noticeable, let alone pay to win.

[left sand]

not really?

i would say overwatch has probably some of the best archetypes in an FPS with the large roster they have

the game i would say feels samey is val

[high current]

I can see how in the 2010s when you had CS and COD, people would look at TF2 weapons and think they’re must haves. But I think now they’d just be like “oh he was using a different rocket launcher”

[left sand]

yeah thats true

maybe things have changed

but again, i still feel like unlocks werent a fully thought out concept

base tf2 on launch was pretty well designed

the live service was slop

which ultimately made tf2 get abandoned

because it was just slop on slop

and it got too hard to do anything with it

[tacit flare]

Unlocking weapons through achievements was.. interesting but probably not helpful

[high current]

Having played Valorant. The lines between archetypes are basically nonexistent.
And in Overwatch I felt like the lines were basically tank, healer, and guy that feeds constantly but presses a button every 2 minutes and insta kills everyone.

[left sand]

i mean idk

i think overwatch, healers especially, is really innovative

[high current]

Like I genuinely couldn’t tell you what the goal of damage roles are in OW. If you replaced them with DVA the game would play the exact same if not better.

[left sand]

like youd think theyd run out of ways to make unique healers

yeah, the DPS role in OW doesn't make much sense

especially OW2

i think deadlock does actual ROLES a lot better

but im not talking about roles

im talking about archetypes

as in, kits

like OW has so many unique styles of character kits

that are all unique

many people couldnt think of anything other than medic when it came to tf2 weapon ideas

and thats another thing ig

[high current]

Overwatch healers make me want to light myself on fire. They feel so garbage to play with and fight against because they’re TOO impactful. If someone has a healer it’s GG, if someone doesn’t have a healer it’s GG. It’s just not fun IMO.
I think medic tends to strike a good balance of being influential, but not overly so, and being vaulnerable in order to have that impact.

[left sand]

making new heroes lets you make an entirely new archetype

unlocks can be derivative

[left sand]

well yeah, but thats a ROLE thing again

[high current]

Yeh that’s fair. But I like that TF2 has pretty clear lanes it stays in with weapons

[left sand]

the problem with overwatch is that people are too specialized

[high current]

I’m on mobile so I couldn’t see your messages while typing.

[left sand]

so therefore the balance of the game relies on the strength of their specialization

a healer is so concentrated on being a healer

that even a slight balance mistake can make them too strong

thats why i like deadlock more in that regard

they have much more generalist kits

which means their one thing CAN be good

like ivy, shes kinda support but shes also damage, so she doesnt have like 50 healing abilities which all need to be shit or else its too annoying

[high current]

It also just feels more rock paper scissors like imo then. Which just kinda feels bad to me. Maybe that’s just my 6s player showing, but having extreme niches and ults in the same game just feels awkward. Like you played a character for a bit, the enemy switched to one that shuts you down, but you are at 70% ult so you just have to suck it up because you can’t waste that ult charge.
It’s a mechanic interaction that I don’t like.

[left sand]

but im just talking from an archetype standpoint, not necessarily a balance standpoint

like the way they can just think of new kits like that

it always impresses me

i think the healers especially

like gosh, what a great game for any support player

[high current]

Honestly Overwatch seems the most fun as a healer

[left sand]

so many engaging, fun to play heroes with such diversity

idk if OW2 is back at 6v6

but when they had the tank DPS thing

it was really weird

it felt great as a tank

but the dps is like ???

its like more supporting spam class

its like a damage gate

rather than actual DPS

DPS is just there to reverse their heals

and tank was there to actually kill their HP

[high current]

DPS in OW is basically just pick classes in TF2. You have ones that aren’t pick classes, but they’re honestly just filling a slot at that point.

[left sand]

yeah

roles in OW really suck

but its tradeoffs i think

[high current]

Like why pick soldier 76 or phara when you could pick DVA.

[left sand]

i mean, its the legacy of an MMO

so i get why it sucks

in terms of roles

they did their best in that regard

[high current]

Right, but I think it holds itself back in the desire to stay mmo-esque

[left sand]

yup

but idk, its like

does every game wanna be the perfect game

and thats really my point

i didnt wanna like

say tf2 needs to be reworked

im just saying, theres tradeoffs for every unique experience

if you wanna homogenize everything to be perfect

then thats like a game without real decisions about its design

no convictions

tf2's design has flaws

[high current]

Eh. I think have the best execution for your purpose is a good goal.
Like yeh Overwatch isn’t going to be a perfect RTS game. But they should try to nail down what they’re doing and do it well

[left sand]

and maybe some of those are not a result of amazing design, but rather just valve learning about live services

but still at the end of the day

they did choose those, and that makes the audience

so it doesnt make sense to rework it

[high current]

I mean in OW’s case they said they were going to rework it in the sequel. Then just kinda didn’t

But yeh I don’t think TF2 is a perfect game. Nor will it probably ever be. But I think it strikes a damn near perfect balance of arena shooter fundamentals with mechanics that make it digestible to a wider audience.

Battle Royals did a similar thing but just in a different execution. Take the arena shooter format, put a spin on it that makes it digestible for mass market.

[eternal haven]

The weirdest thing about tf2 to me was the engineer

Before I started playing it

I just didn't really understand the how engineer worked

[high current]

Basically took arena shooters, made team play important, diversified objectives, added classes that people can lean into their strengths to get invested in their role in TF2.

Battle Royals took arena shooters and made the arena bigger. That made it so mobility could be flashier but less impactful than the smaller arenas of true arena shooters. They also added means of making your large arenas subdivided into smaller arenas (smoke grenades, building, etc).

[orchid sorrel]

Coms i am interested in seeing your take on killing floor 3 at some point if i can get a beta key

Theres a lot of controversy in the game right now from moving from the previously established loadout system 1 and 2 had to a more standardized class/hero system

I think it would be interesting to see a fresh pair of eyes on the game rather than someone who is just unhappy with the game for changing

[high current]

I’d say TF2 and OW are similar in like a convergent evolution way. Overwatch took MMOs/MOBAs and made them more shootery, TF2 took arena shooters and made them more MMO/MOBA-y

Ended up resulting in something that looks similar but feels totally different

[radiant merlin]

i would like ow more if it didn't have that air drag thing

[left sand]

well theres no self damage so

[radiant merlin]

it would be fun to surf damage

but instead you get halted midair like if it were pyro's airblast

[high current]

OW has more air drag than Minecraft and it feels SO bad

Especially when you have characters like phara that have utility that could be really cool mobility.

[summer steeple]

and yet, average player numbers are higher now than they were before MYM launched

and also the fact that the biggest reasons people left when MYM launched were fixed

like the extremely long wait times, being forced to requeue (people still do it anyway though), sbmm (still there but so heavily toned down that its not really that noticeable)

[high current]

I’d be more worried if they didn’t spawn my spleen

[radiant merlin]

valve tested the new competitive matchmaking but didn't even test casual lol

who wants to beta test comp matchmaking?

[high current]

Can those still be transferred? I have an inventory full of them on a different account from my current one lol

[radiant merlin]

nope, untradable

[slender nexus]

all mah gatos knows a lowrider

cue George Lopez theme

[eternal haven]

https://tenor.com/view/oye-oye-cat-oye-pet-oye-pat-cat-gif-16951997632286196402

[paper sluice]

https://gamebanana.com/mods/577957

Look at this

Ooaiuamagoad

It’s beautiful..,,

[unborn pecan]

Gato rider

[summer steeple]

this is what tf2 will look like in 2013

[radiant merlin]

about demo's beanie, what material is it supposed to be made from in vanilla tf2?

[paper sluice]

Idk lmao

[radiant merlin]

leather?

[paper sluice]

I just assumed it was some random fabric

Nah leather would be weird

[radiant merlin]

in the comics they fixed it

[summer steeple]

AH SCARY

[paper sluice]

Uncanny heavy..,,

[summer steeple]

i'm not the biggest fan of some of these changes

good work, just not my thing

demo probably is my least favorite

partially because of the beanie

[paper sluice]

With how shiny it is in retail I think I always kinda interpreted it as a weird rubber/latex thing

[paper sluice]

If I had to keep one change for demo that’d definitely but the one I’d keep tho..,. 😢

[cursive peak]

I don't see where any of those changes make any real difference.

[summer steeple]

they don't which i think is kind of the point

[paper sluice]

Yeah the zippers are a little eh to me but the rest

[paper sluice]

The normals have visible brush strokes on em it’s so cool

[unborn pecan]

they are right

oh

I thought they meant demo as in the class

[summer steeple]

i did

[paper sluice]

Oh and pyros eye goggle reflections are just 10000% better

[summer steeple]

I think the thing that bugs me for a lot of these is that some of the new details are a bit too much contrast

like if they were subtler they'd be great

[paper sluice]

You can see it better here the effect the goggles have are on the model itself not painted just for the mask