Team Fortress 2 Megathread - winter is the most chill time of year

[left sand]

should scout be able to gain overheal from kits

[high current]

If the game plays similarly to TF2 then the last thing scout needs is a buff

[left sand]

trade offer: scout can overheal from kits, but medic no longer gets speed boost

[high current]

TBH medic without speed boost just sounds boring IMO.
My opinion could change in play testing, I briefly played 6s pre-speed boost, but I think the general consensus is that the game is faster and more competitive with it.

Just my opionion

[left sand]

i feel like theres also a simulataneous consensus that it made pocket scout a thing

and that its a bad thing for scout to have 185

[high current]

It definitely did make pocket scout a thing, but it also made gunboats pocket a thing.
Honestly I think if you were to revert the speed boost, pocket scout would still be a thing. I think people have realized that scattergun stopping soldiers before they land is better than pocket soldier killing bombs after they land.

[left sand]

hmm interesting

[high current]

Maybe there's some way for a team to pick between shotgun soldier with no speed boost medic OR speed boost medic but not shotgun soldier.
IDK how that'd be implemented intuitively, but its a possibility

[left sand]

should medic be able to grapple to allies?

should scout have reduced overheal?

should soldier have permanent gunboats damage resistance? (to all self blast damage, regardless of if it damages an enemy or not)

should medic be able to revive like in mvm?

[high current]

Medic grapple could be interesting if the speedboost is removed. I guess that'd be like mercy from overwatch? Seems like it might have some serious departers from 6s gameplay, but I'm not certain.

IMO 185 on scout is fine. I haven't played at the highest level, but the buff ends up fading to ~150 by the time you do anything after leaving beam. And if someone is blitzing your combo then 185 isn't really a substantial break point versus 150 (for example).

I think ETF2L runs a plugin that gives gunboats this behavior. IMO I think the current (non-ETF2L) implementation of gunboats is fine. It introduces the strategy of knowing you're going to die as scout, and blitzing the soldier to ensure they also die. It also makes bombs a bit less thoughtful, as you just land point blank on the medic where you deal 112 damage, with no regard for your own health, since you take the same damage regardless.

Revive bad IMO. Spawn waves and spawn timings are an important part of the meta, if you can just negate that by reviving your teammate it makes killing meaningless, you're forced to kill the medic in all situations essentially.

I do think soldier's innate rocket jump damage resistance should be made more intuitive though. IIRC the way it works is that the innate soldier rocket jump resistance (30%?) is applied only if you you aren't in contact with the ground. So it amplifies the gunboat issue because if you damage a teammate and you're on the ground, you go from taking ~30 damage to ~90 damage. Where as if you jump before firing in that same situation (or if rocket jump resistance applied universally) you'd go from ~30 damage to ~60 damage.

[left sand]

the problem with that is that the innate resistance affects jump impulses

[high current]

I'd just say apply the innate rocket jump damage resistance to soldier all the time, regardless if theyre on the ground, damaging an enemy, etc. Basically just self damage resistance. I think that would make it more intuitive and would make the gunboat problem less noticeable.

[high current]

Like it affects the knock back from rocket jumps?

[left sand]

yeah

so like

spawn rollouts

are affected

[high current]

If it was just a constant self-damage resistance, could you just offset it with a self-knockback boost? I'm not fluent enough in math to know if that would work properly.

[left sand]

yeah you can but itd have to be conditional

based on ground vs air

which isnt hard to do

[high current]

Like the pocket-soldier in-spawn floor jumps to rollout with escape plan?

[left sand]

yeah

[eternal haven]

Unreal

[left sand]

if you apply the resistance on the ground also

he goes less distance

but its pretty easy to get around that

and just basically apply an additional non-impulse affecting resistance while on ground

[high current]

I'd be less concerned with the distance, but thinking about it, you wouldn't get as low of health. 4 floor-rockets usually gets me to ~85-95hp depending on my execution. With the added resistance you'd only get to something like 120.
Assuming you got below 120 I don't think this would be an issue, as escape plan has speed breakpoints at every 40hp iirc.

Keeping the knockback the same for grounded rockets would be interesting. That might also affect speed shots, IDK the exact engine quirk that enables those.

[left sand]

should scout be able to shove

at all times

[high current]

IMO it wouldn't ever be used. I'd never want to shove someone out of 105 damage range. Not to shoot down all your ideas, that's just my honest opinion

Honestly pocket soldier or both soldiers having a shove (or kick) would probably be more useful. That way if someone gets in your face to make you take more self damage, you can kick them away from you. Or maybe its an ability of the gunboats

[left sand]

i dont intend to implement any of these

im just saying random stuff

to figure some stuff out

and get ideas going

realms of possibilities

a soldier shove could be interesting

i was wondering, if shove push force should scale to self velocity

[small siren]

*i was wondering,

if shove push force should scale to

self velocity*

- mcoms

[high current]

Being able to shove someone into a juggle with rockets would be a crazy combo actually. That might be super fun

[eternal haven]

Me when I rocket jump into someone and shove them at 1000 mph

[high current]

I think generally if youre going fast you probably don't want to shove them, that usually means you're closing the distance on them. But maybe that introduces some behavior where you take a bomb route from behind the enemy medic to YEET them into your team?

[left sand]

thatd be funny

[left sand]

that would be funny

[high current]

IMO it'd be worth a try

[left sand]

should soldier be able to goomba stomp?

should scout be able to hold space bar to gain a little extra boost directionally after a double jump (like a thruster jetpack)

[high current]

Goomba stomp, like insta kill? No
Transfering your fall damage into who you land on, negating your own fall damage? Could be cool. I always find landing on my enemy slightly disorienting, so maybe that's a reasonable tradeoff for an extra 30 damage.

Scout speed boost? Nah

[left sand]

not a speed boost, but you know how you go in the direction of your movement keys

after a double jump

what if holding space bar made you go horizontally in that direction a little bit more

like a 0.2 second extra distance

if you held it

[high current]

Like you don't start falling for that time?

[left sand]

like a minor amount

maybe, maybe not

just thinking about additional movement tech

[high current]

If it's just a directional thing then I don't understand how it'd be different from current scout. You can just airstrafe to change directions if you arent happy with the instant direction change from your pressed movement key when you double jump.

If it's like a little bit of a float, I don't see much reason for it, it'd be the same as just making the 2nd jump slightly more powerful. But that would probably be less intuative than both jumps being the same imo

[left sand]

like that orange bit is if you hold space bar down on the double jump

if you release instantly, its like normal

if you release halfway on the orange, you only go halfway

its basically just a tiny ledge jump / gap close tech

but i can see how it could be pointless

[high current]

Eh, I don't see much of a use for it personally. IMO coyote time would achieve the same thing, but front loaded rather than back loaded, and it would make scout movement just a hair more intuitive.
When I was first learning scout I'd feel like I got robbed of a double jump a lot when jumping gaps, when in reality it was just a skill issue of tapping space just after I had left a ledge. Can't remember how long it has been since that last happened, but I also have like 1k hours on scout now so I've gotten used to the movement speed and collision box.

There's not a ton of spots on maps where a tiny boost would make the difference between making a jump and not making a jump though. Usually if something is out of range it is done intentionally, and then you can usually equip winger (not sure if / how you'd want winger in your game)

[left sand]

yeah its basically to get around the fact that theres no winger

[high current]

IMO winger is more about the height than the distance. Being able to jump from the little raised floor under gully's heaven, up to heaven, is the primo example of winger mobility IMO.

[left sand]

you could also boost up if you did a straight up jump

[high current]

I think that specific example you actually have to do a slight forward momentum jump ironically.

[left sand]

cant air strafe?

[high current]

Though it could be an interesting implementation. But another use for winger is like jumping through choke to sunshine mid to avoid the sticky on the floor some demos lob.
Or if you're flank scout capping for your team, you can jump straight from sunshine's small pack on 2nd to the control point by holding w, without having to run up the ramp. Saves like 1/8th 2nd.

[high current]

Let me try rn honestly

[left sand]

should medic be able to see health at all times (and ubercharge available / not (no percentage))

[high current]

It is possible to do it without momentum on the first jump. But its substantially clunkier and I can't imagine I'd ever be consistent with it in combat. Not that this is done in combat often, mostly just when your team is waiting on you for a push.

First 2 jumps were with momentum, last 2 were no movement input for the first jump, input for the second jump.

[high current]

I'd say yes, but honestly at my level it's rarely used or results in your team feeding a player to chase a kill.
Maybe a higher level player would think it's OP 🤷‍♂️

[next nymph]

i was thinking if you wanted slides for extra speed / movement tech, I'd give it to med in exchange for no healing while doing it. Make it a situational choice instead of something you need to do constantly

[left sand]

sure

[next nymph]

i worry grapple seems like itd trivialize positioning, if you want to get somewhere you should always grapple to the nearest player and there's no thought process to it

[jagged pawn]

self needle boosting

[orchid sorrel]

funny in theory but I think in practice would just result in scouts constantly grabbing health kits and nobody else being able to reliably use them

basically the "scout takes the health kit at 124hp from the burning soldier at 5hp meme" but x10

[crisp cedar]

how impactful would it be if kits only deducted how much you need and displayed the percentage it would heal you for

and it would refresh the amount it has later if not used up

[next nymph]

do you mean "i took 20% from it, now this other guy can heal up to 80%" or do you mean "i took 20% from it, it'll only be 5 seconds before it's back to 100% and other people can use it" like is it still available while it's charging up

[crisp cedar]

yes

if you had 124 hp and touched a kit it would consume a % of that kit but it will still be available for others to pick up

if its still not fully consumed it recharges to full as if it respawned after some time

[next nymph]

i feel like it might be better for pubs but i think managing healthkit (and ammokit) availability is a pretty important team skill and general gamesense thing in a competitive scenario

[crisp cedar]

true

[high current]

Me wanting to strangle my scouts anytime they even think about grabbing a health pack…

[next nymph]

thoughts: healthpacks dont heal the scouts

[oblique tangle]

rad

but they have 150hp to compensate maybe

[high current]

150 would only be substantial for overheal tbh. Or maybe for scout v scouts. Versus soldier or demo 150hp is a super situational break point.

Even then you’re talking 185 versus 225? Not substantial but does get you past being 2 piped and barely above 2 point-blank rockets.

[rare creek]

https://bskyx.app/profile/tf2official.bsky.social/post/3lhlu6j3g3c2i

[uncut spear]

https://youtu.be/mYhIc_y93IQ?si=Pvbenm-eXspMYoLF

[eternal haven]

Why is the latest manifest in the tf2 mac depot in the public branch rather than the x64_test branch

[radiant merlin]

tf2 mac confirmed

[potent wolf]

i'm guessing it got automatically rebuilt by accident or something

iirc it has the exact same contents as the x64_linux_test branch

[eternal haven]

I guess you can use it to easily see which functions they changed

for 64 bit

or at least the first parts of it

[jagged pawn]

I love collegiate tf2 https://www.twitch.tv/firesidecasts

[potent wolf]

my memory is fuzzy but i'm pretty sure I actually did do some diffing on those binaries when they were originally pushed

#1072696252162117752 message

[high current]

Collegiate TF2 was a cool thing. Wish I had stayed active in it

[jagged pawn]

this was my last semester running it, passing the torch is tough but I'm hoping they can keep it growing

[high current]

Do yall only run it while youre in college? Or is it just time to step away?

[jagged pawn]

I graduated and yeah it's collegiate-ran

[rare creek]

valve stopped banning bots, all a temporary marketing ploy as always

[kind falcon]

proof?

[rare creek]

i reported a bot during december and it didn't get banned

[small siren]

*i reported a

bot during december and

it didn't get banned*

- totallynotniteruxiswear

[rare creek]

actually nvm it got banned i just never got a notification </3

i hate when im wrong

[kind falcon]

i love polish queer tf2 players

[cursive peak]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hZUedWXgcGk

[high current]

Huh. I didn’t know admins had to be in college. I guess FOAD and I kinda set that precedent by retiring while we were still in college, Oopsies

[jagged pawn]

lol yeah we kept it going that way

not a requirement ig, more of a tradition

[high current]

That’s fair. I’m glad to see the league still going

[potent wolf]

protobuf net messages when

[left sand]

source 2

[potent wolf]

Table Bonk

worldwide slurs

[next nymph]

just implement them like this:

syntax = "proto3";

message ArbitraryData {
    string jsondata = 1;
}

[potent wolf]

i like this

but it should be KeyValues, not json

[next nymph]

but its json

[oblique tangle]

idk if this guy is cheating or nah

[rare creek]

me on my alt? yueah

[burnt dragon]

can I play on official servers if I decompile maps then recompile with better lighting quality?

[rare creek]

no

[burnt dragon]

I think one of the biggest reasons tf2 looks old is baked lights look blurry and old

also the reflections are low quality and stationary

[rare creek]

you can't play on any server if your version of the map doesn't match the server's version

[burnt dragon]

rats

[burnt dragon]

can I trick server into believing I have same version of the map?

[rare creek]

no

[burnt dragon]

awh

https://media.discordapp.net/stickers/1286673313707458631.png?size=160

[kind falcon]

by cheating

[potent wolf]

by educational game modding

[burnt dragon]

I kinda want to do that now

I would enjoy playing on maps with better lighting

would give old gameplay a fresh coat of paint

[potent wolf]

afaik the map is checked with an md5 hash

and md5 is broken

[burnt dragon]

https://github.com/ewwink/MD5-Hash-Changer

[potent wolf]

actually, i'm not sure if the attacks work on differently-sized data, so...

[burnt dragon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1081016285258846228.webp?size=48

[potent wolf]

🤷

[burnt dragon]

I would also need to figure out source 1 hammer

Im good with source 2 hammer but dont know 2 at all

[potent wolf]

that just changes the hash

which is exactly the opposite of what you would need

[burnt dragon]

oh I cant set it to something specific

[potent wolf]

they should've stuck with crc32 smh my head

[burnt dragon]

cascading shadows would be great to have tbh

[potent wolf]

just use cheats like talon said

[burnt dragon]

can tf2 handle cascaded shadows?

[eternal haven]

Just write a netchannel proxy and modify the md5sum the server sends you

[burnt dragon]

weh...

[potent wolf]

i gave up on writing a proxy after seeing how stringtable packets are implemented

[high current]

Hot take: sharp shadows look fake as hell

[oblique tangle]

not hot at all

well sun shadows look bad when sharp

but indoor lights are supposed to cause such shadows

[burnt dragon]

I just checked, wrong.

[burnt dragon]

also checked, also wrong.

the blurryness of shadow comes from the distance difference between objects distance from light source and ground

and the power of light source

[high current]

Light is complicated. I find medium shadow settings in most games to look the most realistic. You almost always have some bluring on shadows, even on a clear day. There’s usually some equivalent of a focal distance for shadows, so in some situations they can be sharp, such as light passing through tree branches, but buildings tend to have blurred shadows on the edge.

Cloud coverage also plays a massive role. Overcast will produce softer shadows and a flatter look. Partially cloudy will produce some blurring as you’re effectively getting a couple additional light sources from the reflecting of the sun. iirc most skyboxes are partially sunny because it looks the prettiest

Though sometimes you get something like this during an eclipse and it’s uber goofy.

[oblique tangle]

right so the sun which is a light source faraway, will produce a softer shadow projection

compared to an indoor light, which will closer than the SUN and thus create a sharper projection

[high current]

It depends. A more direct light source will create a sharper shadow. If you put your hand in front of a projector you’ll get a pretty crisp shadow. If you put your hand in front of a 1 meter square of LEDs (I got to do that and it was fuckin cool), you probably won’t see much of a shadow because of how soft it is. Just because of the amount of light spilling over the side.
It’s the same as how a wide angle lens makes distances between the subject and background look bigger than telephoto lenses.

[next nymph]

if you accurately portrayed an eclipse then people who haven't experienced it themselves would say it's fake

[potent wolf]

real life is pretty darn unrealistic 🤔

[next nymph]

just look at #competitive-digging-archived

[left sand]

it has to fit within perf budget

[high current]

It honestly looks fake. Then if you're in a total eclipse you get some funky light wiggles going around shadows, like the reflection off an indoor pool

[tough locust]

that method doesn't work anymore afaik

[radiant merlin]

it's amazing how the pipe airblast bug hasn't been fixed in 17 years

amazing is the right word?

[eternal haven]

?

It's the same 'method', editing the vpks

it's just you can edit the path in particles_manifest rather than padding out the whole pcf file so it's the same size and replacing the whole pcf file in the vpk

I've been doing that for custom particles in casual for like 5 years

[tough locust]

:O

[rare creek]

please remove sv pure it clearly does not fucking work lmao

[eternal haven]

the pure checks are only for the exact paths 'sound' 'models' 'materials' 'particles' 'scripts' etc

[wild grove]

If anything gamebanana should've been more responsible and trashed the mod that caused valve to enable pure before valve had to take action.

[eternal haven]

Gamebanana isn't relevant at all

pure was already in the game

[wild grove]

no shit?

[eternal haven]

I don't see what gamebanana has to do with anything

you're saying if someone hadn't posted some mod on gamebanana it would have made any difference

in valve eventually enabling pure on its casual servers?

that's ridiculous

[summer steeple]

in theory it could, but it doesn't support it

[potent wolf]

please remove the custom folder

:)

[eternal haven]

anyways valve doesn't care about tf2 enough for it to matter

• pure has been wholly client side since steam pipe

• there are like 5 bugs in it that have never been fixed

though now two of them are popularized so maybe valve would act

[summer steeple]

solution: every frame re-validate the hashes of every file currently in use

[wild grove]

One of them caused a quickswitch misc bugfix like backlash when someone reported it.

[high current]

Valve should just take over the US government and outlaw cheating in videogames

[radiant merlin]

I want a mod that disables all taunt unusuals because they are shit and are the worst decision valve could ever make

[tough locust]

https://gamebanana.com/mods/205768 somewhere in here pretty sure, it'd work with that particle preloader thing

[burnt dragon]

outdoors have a larger atmosphere depending on how much moisture on air you might not even have a shadow

[wild grove]

Thats what I was thinking while looking at the shadow of a light pole outside one time.

[glass musk]

tbh I just want 2fort with sharper shadows 😭

[burnt dragon]

SAME, I just want to play dustbowl/badwater with sharp shadows

[sterile ferry]

could the dev build be causing issues with explosion smoke sometimes not rendering

[burnt dragon]

https://gamebanana.com/wips/79216

[eternal haven]

Thats fucked up

[burnt dragon]

nuh uh, its cool

[limpid panther]

Choppying animations is actually really distressing to the Animations

[eternal haven]

^

[eternal haven]

Chat is this true

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/DEM_(file_format) would never lie to me

[potent wolf]

how did you find out 🙀

anyways I have a choice to make here

do I use my existing rust code for this

or do I rewrite all of it in C++

[eternal haven]

C++

:D

[left sand]

dont use c++ cyberpunk 2077 was made in it

[potent wolf]

hm

I think i'll use D then

[eternal haven]

If you write in C++ you can copy paste from tf2 and if you write in rust you can copy paste from github.com slash demostf slash parser

tough choice

[potent wolf]

I refuse to copy from either on the principle of "I like writing sane code"

[left sand]

takedown from valve

[potent wolf]

takedown fortress 2

i've seen the leaks I can't write cleanroom code anymore guess i'll have to hit my head with a brick until i forget

that's a good legal defense, right?

[drowsy marlin]

can tf2 be written in rust?

[potent wolf]

there's nothing stopping you, other than the amount of work

[potent wolf]

one C++ bytestream abstraction later

[eternal haven]

easy part done

now you will suffer

[potent wolf]

bf_read

[velvet raft]

@potent wolf how are you the original poster of this thread in a TF2 themed server?

[potent wolf]

because this thread is relatively new

[velvet raft]

https://tenor.com/view/emoji12-emoji-12-cat-cat-stare-stare-gif-3046852822879001726

[velvet raft]

from when

[potent wolf]

some time in 2023

see: #tf2-discussion

[eternal haven]

[potent wolf]

oh right uhhhh

@left sand what are the requirements for the archive

iirc you need to link your steam acc

[burnt dragon]

half life 2: demoman?

did they change the plan about episode 3?

[potent wolf]

yes

[velvet raft]

can you explain this to me?

[potent wolf]

see the screenshot

[burnt dragon]

demo protocol version 3?

does that imply 3 demoman or episode 3

[potent wolf]

episode 3 will have 3 demomen

[burnt dragon]

KA-BEEEEEEEM!

[oblique tangle]

vencord

[rare creek]

https://steamdb.info/app/440/history/?changeid=U:58261319

number change

[summer steeple]

huge

[radiant merlin]

weird random change

perhaps a bug fix update is coming

[eternal haven]

Maybe they'll fix the cukie bugs

I bet they'll at least fix the one, it'l be interesting to see what they do about the vpks

[high current]

Watch them just force full compliance with default files

All customization gone

[glass musk]

I'm quitting TF2 forever once they patch out casual compatible mods

not really any point in playing

unmodded TF2 so shit

[left sand]

what if they fix the game

[cursive peak]

Only mods I really use are custom HUD/hitsound/killsound.

[eternal haven]

Not possible

[potent wolf]

What if they port it to ue5

[left sand]

okay but what if

[left sand]

Source 1 DLSS and FG

NVIDIA DLSS, NVIDIA RR, NVIDIA REFLEX, NVIDIA FG

[glass musk]

this will be TF2 in 2014

[rare creek]

why dont they just render the game in blender so that it looks good instead of bad

[potent wolf]

ok im gonna go and block you

[rare creek]

damn that's really mean replaycoding wtf

what did mastercoms ever do to you

[rare creek]

this is what tf2 would look likr if it was realistic

[rare creek]

tf2 if they just finally just fixed the fucking uglty assgraphics

[potent wolf]

that ground needs one of those "this floor is wet" signs near it

[glass musk]

TF2 with le raytracing??

😱

[eternal haven]

https://tenor.com/view/imsofate-19-dollar-fortnite-card-gif-20248081

[glass musk]

RTGI can actually be good

if tweaked properly

[rare creek]

for screenshots*

will forever look like shit in motion

[glass musk]

husk

[potent wolf]

i cant wait for them to remove the custom folder

[summer steeple]

please tell me this is just reshade with poorly configured shaders

[glass musk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTr983DJgeE

it looks so fucking bad

as expected

[rare creek]

wdym this is peak

[glass musk]

could possibly would could get

[summer steeple]

i'm not watching this video

[glass musk]

lmao

[eternal haven]

Why are all the floors so shiny

It's like a mirror on every floor

even the grass

[summer steeple]

real, just look at tf2c and how it looks exactly like this video

[rare creek]

every minecraft shader whenever it rains:

[glass musk]

tf2c actually looks good though

[summer steeple]

poorly configured SSR shader that also lacks any material data

[summer steeple]

yeah but my point is that it doesn't look like vastly different from vanilla tf2, and it sure as hell doesn't look like THIS

[summer steeple]

shrimply download a PBR resource pack to fix this (it still doesn't look very good if you want a vanilla like experience, I've been trying all week please god)

[rare creek]

minecraft shaders suck

[glass musk]

Minecraft RTX is peak

[rare creek]

99% performance decrease for 1% graphical increase

[summer steeple]

real

[rare creek]

it's not even funny how bad it hurts fps

wihtout shaders i get like 500 fps but with shaders I get literally like 10

[summer steeple]

gpu bottleneck

[glass musk]

https://youtu.be/-byskLo2cNg

[summer steeple]

lol, lmao

[rare creek]

minecraft versions before 1.7 use like opengl 1.1

[summer steeple]

if you want to keep compat with regular minecraft (why) you're writing GLSL for opengl from 19 years ago

I hope some more modern shaders written from scratch use newer versions

[rare creek]

making a shader mod literally meant upgrading all of the graphics code in the entire game because opengl 1.1 doesn't support shaders

[summer steeple]

anyway the problem i've been having the most is actually that a resource pack i'm trying to use adds variants to a ton of blocks so it breaks any PBR packs I have installed so they look out of place

also, this is tf2 chat

[glass musk]

yop

[potent wolf]

i can rename it if you want

tf2 is dead anyways

[summer steeple]

I mean i can too, but don't

[potent wolf]

wellll

its my thread after all

[crisp cedar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MezglHkjYg theyre gonna make the game look like this

[radiant merlin]

the witcher 2

[left sand]

https://youtu.be/JNxg5stxlhk

[potent wolf]

4 hours

[crisp cedar]

would rather down a hot cup of my own piss than watch this shit

[summer steeple]

oh i get it the title is like that one anime movie with the 14 year old that their pfp is of

[jagged pawn]

jesus christ

get ready for every minor in the tf2 community to regurgitate this video blindly for the next 6 months

[crisp cedar]

dota cs bad, tf2 only good

[eternal haven]

The rent wasnt gonna pay itself

Started watching it to see how far in I could make it before bullshit was said

Got to about 40 seconds

The bots and server crashing issues did not start in 2016

[next nymph]

the other day at lunch I overheard another table going "are you a hashtag save tf2 guy?"

[jagged pawn]

is this actually what it's about or is it just the thumbnail

[small siren]

*is this actually

what it's about or is it

just the thumbnail*

- Grapevime

[jagged pawn]

(I don't give ad revenue to predators)

[crisp cedar]

i already told you, id rather drink a hot mug of my own piss than watch this

[jagged pawn]

fair

[left sand]

i watched like maybe 1 minute total, just skipped through each section for a sentence each and he made some good points
the comp mode tried to appeal to both casual players and 6s players and ended up appealing to no one
doomed to fail
because they couldnt make it like 6s, or else it would be too different from casual
then like the meet your match update had a lot of incorrect expectations about how matches should be formed and continued
and the bot problem took way too long to solve
i think those are the main points of the video
just flipping through the sections

[jagged pawn]

oh is this about meet your match

the horse is a puddle

[left sand]

oh and i think he says that community servers are like killed due to bad navigation or something

[crisp cedar]

the horse is ashes

[left sand]

yeah i dont think he has said anything that hasnt been said

except i think he worded the complaints about the comp mode in an accessible way

[jagged pawn]

4 hours of regurgitating existing videos is wild lol

[left sand]

which didnt blame either community

like

he did it in a way where he was like

more pragmatic about it

and more blaming valve

for not coming up with a magical third way

[jagged pawn]

yeah comp players didn't want this either. if idiots are gonna stop blaming comp for mym then that's good ig

[left sand]

he was like, if you do 6s, then you cant copy "6s" because theres like lots of different leagues with slightly different rules

and hes like

oh the graphics settings are enforced

oh theres no balance no class limits nothing

so no one wants to play it

its too limited with 6v6 already and the leave penalties and match cancelling and graphics settings for any casual player to wanna play it

and then the 6s players dont wanna play it either

i dont think ive heard it expressed like that

where its like both sides

ive only heard it be complained that like

[crisp cedar]

i always hated that because how is it possible to balance a game where players straight up are not allowed to use certain ingame mechanics

[left sand]

one side ruined the other

[crisp cedar]

literally how

[left sand]

fortnite kinda changed my mind about that

because like

fortnite ranked

isnt like

removing mechanics

its more

fortnite unranked adds silly shit

[jagged pawn]

very easily imo

[left sand]

and they just dont add it to comp

like

fortnite unranked has baby stuff

like a sword where you can jump all over and kill everyone in a swing

[crisp cedar]

well i mean i think theres a distinction between silly shit and balancing unlocks

[left sand]

and then ranked is like

[eternal haven]

tf2 with everything in it just isn't really balanced for 6 players

it's meant for 12

[left sand]

okay only serious items

[crisp cedar]

fortnite has obviously silly overpowered weapons

[left sand]

yeah thats the other thing

[eternal haven]

6 works better if you limit stuff to the core items

[left sand]

killing someone with an OP item when theres 11 other players doesnt matter

[jagged pawn]

like genuinely the only major difference between valve comp and community comp is class limits. all the weapon bans are for weapons that are too strong in casual anyway

[left sand]

killing someone when theres only 5 other players and each player has a crucial role is a huge deal

[jagged pawn]

so there's only one problem to solve imo

[left sand]

dota is different because like

they are the same game

even cs2 has casual and comp rulesets

though its even more similar of a game between them

so idk why they went the dota route for tf2

it seemed like very strange

[crisp cedar]

isnt casual vs comp in cs just like

casual has no tks

[jagged pawn]

and it's 10v10

[crisp cedar]

everyone gets more money and gets armor, etc

and that yeah

[left sand]

and you can leave any time

and you autobuy the important equipment

but yeah

its like

[jagged pawn]

yeah again the only thing cs doesn't have to deal with is class limits

[left sand]

theres different mechanics

but they didnt do that for tf2

tf2 they just did dota

basically

[jagged pawn]

mhm

[crisp cedar]

my point is that something as drastic as literally banning weapons never allows a meta to develop thus the devs cant figure out how to balance the game around a council of people that arbitrarily decides which weapons are ok and which arent

so theyj ust didnt

it was literally impossible to gather any data

[left sand]

or rather

it allows them to not make weapons unfun for casual

and not worry about them

and just have goofy weapons

like there were so many bonkers weapons which would be insane in a comp environment

but in casual theyre just annoying or a crutch

stuff like the sandman

or whatever

like you can have an item meta

but just have joke items

its like same thing as aram WTF vs. normal dota

aram WTF has all the cut content broken neutral items

and its just fun

and no one cares

and then theres still a meta game in the actual dota

like what is your argument

like valve would decide

okay we want these weapons just for casual play

and so we arent concerned about balancing them

still think though

[crisp cedar]

but why isnt there any weapon bans in their own comp mode

[left sand]

because they went a different route on it

thinking they could go cold turkey

it would have made sense to be an incrementalist

sorta like

captains mode in dota

with new heroes

right

like tf2 wasnt made for comp so basically

[crisp cedar]

sure that couldve been good yeah

oh for sure

[left sand]

everything could be excluded from tf2 comp at launch

and then over time

they introduce items

and then its like

okay yeah we're happy

same for class limits

they could have gone with strict class limits

then over time like

balance pyro for comp

[crisp cedar]

i guess its valid but im still just overall bitter that the community complains about something that they did themselves

[left sand]

give them an identity

yeah well

[crisp cedar]

the dumb protest

[left sand]

idk this video kinda convinced me

just scrolling through it for 1 min

[crisp cedar]

they just refused to work with valve and now are blaming them

[left sand]

like literally lol

no other video managed to convince me about this

but like

yeah literally

valve made a gamemode no one wanted to play

there was no plan

they tried to compromise both sides down to like nonsense basically

they made an experience that didnt make sense to anyone

[crisp cedar]

okay well

[left sand]

also they didnt launch with highlander

[crisp cedar]

heartbreaking: worst person ever

[left sand]

they wanted to do highlander

but then they just didnt launch it

it would have been cool

[crisp cedar]

wait really

[left sand]

because i bet people would have done highlander

like thats just the easy casual mode

[crisp cedar]

yeah i imagine at launch highlander would be popular

its just casual but with roles and 2 less players

a gamemode if you will

would it be wrong for me to assume that valves reluctance on doing anything with weapons mainly comes because they would have to add a new econ item

or atleast partly

[left sand]

idk

they rebalanced a bunch

its just

they took the approach of wanting every item in comp

[summer steeple]

yeah iirc during the comp beta there was an empty leaderboard that said 9v9

anyway valve bad, zesty bad, comp bad, casual bad, everything bad

valve fucked up, people complained and then valve said "damn alright" and then gave up

we're now almost a decade after MyM (wtf) who cares

[potent wolf]

it would be really funny if valve just decided to completely stop supporting tf2 tomorrow

[drowsy marlin]

Hindsight is a thing

[potent wolf]

shutdown the servers, have fun

[summer steeple]

but they just changed the one achievement image to say 3 instead of 5!

[potent wolf]

true

heavy update soon

[summer steeple]

4 hours of hindsight of what people have been saying since it happened?

[drowsy marlin]

If I travelled back in time and step on a butterfly, we would be living in the heavy update timeline.

[potent wolf]

or we might get the no-tf2 timeline

[drowsy marlin]

That's stepping on a frog

[summer steeple]

travel back in time and trip gabe newell as he's about to come up with the idea of valve software so he hits his head and gets amnesia

[potent wolf]

🤔

[left sand]

[drowsy marlin]

With no valve how am I supposed to lay in bed and play on my steam deck?

I think that's bad

[potent wolf]

mac builds could've lived forever

smh my head

[crisp cedar]

they wouldnt, artifact servers are still up for the 6 players that still play it

[potent wolf]

they should

[crisp cedar]

why

if i had infinite money i wouldnt mind keeping some servers up

[potent wolf]

it would be funny

[crisp cedar]

they should shut down tf2 servers but keep artifact servers up

[potent wolf]

yes

[burnt dragon]

I mean yeah, fan projects kinda suck so I get it

he has a point

[burnt dragon]

honestly he makes good points, the problem is the shitty ramblings/harassment and how he talks about certain topics while he has 0 idea about them

there was a semi-open beta of deadlock

like few months ago dude kept rambling about how screenshots are unintelligible

and how game won't be playable

[summer steeple]

shocking, game company wants to keep their in development game from having a ton of press because its unfinished and may change a ton

[burnt dragon]

no he hasn't even tried the game

he was just complaining for the sake of it

googling dedloke and clicking on images tab then being like, hmmm, unintelligible

[summer steeple]

yeah my point is that complaining that oh there's not much public info on this game which does not want public info is stupid

[burnt dragon]

I cant understand why people still watch him after he keeps going on and on about topics he has 0 idea about

this is more apparent on streams too

saying shit so confidently like god gave him the wisdom of allseeing eye

[summer steeple]

because he says the things that people are too afraid to say!

because they're stupid and incomprehensible!

[burnt dragon]

thats not even correct

[summer steeple]

no its not but its the argument I've heard some people say

for some reason

[burnt dragon]

he says stuff that people don't care enough to bother with? maybe

why would anyone be afraid of saying a pyro costume that changes its body to heavy is a bad idea

[summer steeple]

he says the things that either
A. have already been talked to death
B. no one says because they're completely incorrect and baseless
C. is a slur

[burnt dragon]

and since he started rambling more and more people in comments of workshop being little shitheads

[burnt dragon]

I swear to god they are impossible to satisfy

"too wacky"
"doesnt fit character"
"we already have 4 copies of this hat"

yeah its a game from late 2000s what do they expect???

[summer steeple]

workshop creators should simply not make bad content (valve is the arbiter of what gets added anyway so it doesn't matter)

(and bad is subjective as fuck)

(and these idiots are extremely biased)

(and also have 0 experience making anything for the workshop)

[burnt dragon]

honestly I rather if valve stopped adding maps and skins

because holy shit a 2004 source game shouldnt be 22+ gbs

also the quality of maps going down can be seen imo

every year the maps have worse sniper sightlines

[summer steeple]

i haven't experienced this at all

[burnt dragon]

they have sharp jagged ends with props that just pop into existence

[burnt dragon]

maybe thats just me

and old maps also had this but I feel like the map pool is big enough

fucking harvest

[summer steeple]

maybe if valve improved how assets are packed tf2 wouldn't be so big

[cursive peak]

Ashville/Coalplant still hasn't been added.

[burnt dragon]

havent tried those I believe

[eternal haven]

Wdym bro

You're dreaming

[potent wolf]

i'm living a nightmare

😔

[burnt dragon]

I think mac builds should die

[cursive peak]

I've always liked Ashville.

[summer steeple]

wish granted

[eternal haven]

Tf2 still has mac version

[burnt dragon]

ooooh Asheville

its a neat map

choke points are a headache tho

[potent wolf]

where are my funny debug symbols

GONE

https://tenor.com/view/agony-gif-23084585

[cursive peak]

It's fine. I've played it in HL and pubs.

[potent wolf]

more koth maps would be nice

i like koth

[radiant merlin]

with 3 translation layers i think

[potent wolf]

nah

it's the native version

i think

[eternal haven]

Yeah

[radiant merlin]

how?

[eternal haven]

It still works

[radiant merlin]

the 32bits binaries?

[potent wolf]

the magic of "they haven't changed the network protocol"

[summer steeple]

they haven't changed any of the netprops

[wild grove]

I want the freeze tag maps, that gamemode looks like so much fun, and its a shame it wasn't added in smissmas 2024.

Man I wish I was in the same timezone during the playtests.

[eternal haven]

^

[potent wolf]

100players grrrr

afaik the only thing that changed was that array sizes were updated

but of course that breaks everything

[radiant merlin]

that doesn't affect the effectiveness of 64bits right?

[potent wolf]

because the array size of part of the prop id

[potent wolf]

no

[radiant merlin]

interesting

upload a video or smth

on yt

[eternal haven]

what for

[radiant merlin]

free views

tf

[potent wolf]

think of the ad revenue

[radiant merlin]

who is ha? hahaha

[potent wolf]

you'll be rich

what if...

they updated the game...

and it used...

protobufs

[eternal haven]

They did that for csgo I think

[potent wolf]

yeah

[eternal haven]

It's like protobuf and encrypted

[potent wolf]

iirc the encryption is kinda shitty though

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Counter-Strike:_Global_Offensive_Network_Channel_Encryption

3rd party client software will forward the encryption key to the CS:GO game client using machine-local communication.
🤔

[crisp cedar]

https://vxtwitter.com/DidTF2GetUpdate/status/1890489407544693137

tf2=saved

[oblique tangle]

careful whatchu wish for

[oblique tangle]

um so the zesty jesus video makes a good point about tf2's genius design but i'm scared to watch the rest

[burnt dragon]

piss can taste amazingly if you process it right

[kind falcon]

torture

[limpid panther]

is the title an Evangelion reference?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelion:_1.0_You_Are_(Not)_Alone

[summer steeple]

yes because zesty is a big fan of a specific 14 year old girl from it which is why his pfp everywhere is her with large breasts

[limpid panther]

omg i had totally forgotten

[crisp cedar]

iirc he also endorses porn being drawn of this character

[oblique tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/flight-stare-reaction-joebiden5-gif-2153917691947132561

https://youtu.be/vZgf1zl_nsE?feature=shared

[potent wolf]

help

i'm so confused 😭

oh i see the demos.tf parser specifically reads 24 bits instead of 32

but where does it do that in the tf2 code?

and why does it only write 3 bytes

[left sand]

probably something to do with endian?

[potent wolf]

as in?

[left sand]

like maybe the order gets stripped for a 0 in a certain endian encoding

i have no context on this though

so this is just random

i completely forgot the dem format

[potent wolf]

it's 1 byte for the command type, followed by a 4 byte little-endian tick number

literally every other command in the file follows this format

i'm starting to suspect that the engine is somehow failing to write the last byte of the file

and when tf2 goes and reads it, instead of throwing an error, it silently returns 0

[burnt dragon]

oooh that looks smooth

wouldnt it be better if enemies had a slightly bigger capsules for explosive damage

might tip off the balance but just an idea

[left sand]

changes made:

• basic enemy player support
• ragdolls
• viewmodel shadows and lighting enhancements
• kills announcer
• kill sound
• some adjustments to explosion playback
• sticky bomb physics, bouncing off players, better support for sticking to the world
• direct hit grenades, including when bouncing off world (still applies reduced damage)

i think ill be launching playtests pretty soon now

[crisp cedar]

with mp?

[left sand]

no

[left nest]

whats this?

[left sand]

my game

[left nest]

nice

[mystic turtle]

imagine TF2 but purpose-built for competitive 6v6, with some extra gimmicks salted in here and there

all the personality and action, whilst now taking on a more comp-ish feel

I believe that's what Mastercoms is goin' for here, at least from what I've seen ghosting discussions of Hazard Pay (if I recall its title right)

[left nest]

neat

[rare creek]

https://youtu.be/8nUso46e0gY

https://youtu.be/tPfVW5m28Kc

why are all of the worst tf2 videos happening now

will this finally kill the game

[oblique tangle]

i never understood how mega's AC works

you can't put that on official servers so what is it for

community servers?

[potent wolf]

it works client-side iiuc

[oblique tangle]

how is that any better than !kick

you can just kick cheaters or bots on community servers

[oblique tangle]

and if you join official games what happens?

[potent wolf]

it works, presumably

i think it uses rcon

[kind falcon]

erm.. are you reading game memory?? ARE you cheating ... To catch Cheaters?!?!?

[oblique tangle]

so i can download this and the games i join through casual queueing won't have cheaters

[potent wolf]

get good, get fiendhook

[potent wolf]

yes the cheaters will be vaporized

[oblique tangle]

i can't tell if you're being fr

[potent wolf]

nah

[oblique tangle]

so what is it even for

like what's the use case

[potent wolf]

auto votekicking

[oblique tangle]

how do you feel now

knowing you could've just said that in the beginning

[kind falcon]

its just fancy tf2botdetector that sends your live demos to the server that analyzes the demos

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1261519278528794737/1307664336562552862/ezgif-7-5875e47d1e.gif

[potent wolf]

sleepy

🥱

[limpid panther]

wait a second

is he using demo files collected from users ?!?!

ughhhhh

[rare creek]

yes

[limpid panther]

nvm, he acknowledges that demo manipulation is a thing

very curious on how he plans to prevent people from simply modifying the nickname and steamid of players in the demo file to frame someone else

[kind falcon]

cant wait to do that

[limpid panther]

also how he plans on preventing the lack of viewangle precision on other players that clients have compared to server from influencing aimbot detections

[rare creek]

he wont

he's too stupid to do anything about these real problems 😊

initially intended on using fucking ai to detect players

like how vacnet bans you for moving your mouse too quickly

[kind falcon]

i didnt see any algo related to fast mouse movement

but sure vro

[high current]

I think it also starts from a fairly safe list of known cheaters and weights its decisions on whether a user is associated with known cheaters. Like if it’s 50/50 if someone is cheating and their friendslist is 80% spinbotters, it’s just gonna call them a cheater.

Tbh I’m not going to knock it till I try it. If there’s a handful of edge cases where it doesn’t work super well, it’ll still be better than nothing. I don’t see why people are complaining about him trying to do something about the cheating problem

[rare creek]

or you can stop being stupid and kick cheaters manually

[high current]

That takes more effort than requeueing

[rare creek]

then just requeue

[high current]

iirc this might be able to just be run in a browser, I could be wrong

[potent wolf]

no

[high current]

He’s not downloading this to your computer for you. What’s the problem

[small siren]

*He’s not downloading

this to your computer for

you. What’s the problem*

- peachestv

[potent wolf]

you can't do rcon from a browser

[rare creek]

why not

[potent wolf]

because browsers don't let you create raw tcp sockets

[rare creek]

they do

just use web assembly

[potent wolf]

???

why do I even bother

[rare creek]

https://github.com/WebAssembly/wasi-sockets

[high current]

I think he said it could do cheater detection (if they’re on the known list) from the browser without user input. Then obviously you’d need to manually kick them.

[rare creek]

This proposal adds TCP & UDP sockets and domain name lookup to WASI

[potent wolf]

wasi is not available in browsers

please do more than 2 seconds of googling before making stupid claims

[small siren]

*please do more than 2

seconds of googling before

making stupid claims*

- replay

[high current]

Either way. Projects like these fall into the same category as the shit maps that get added every year, but even less intrusive. If you don’t like them you can just live your whole life never interacting with these projects

I think msb’s project is cool. Even if it’s just an updated bot detector, or an auto player lookup that I can use to kick people manually.

And balance projects are usually misguided imo, my problem with most is that they’re heavy handed and try to do something to everything. But I still think they’re fun to see, and I can just not play them if I don’t like how they sound.

[rare creek]

you know what fine whatever im never using this this project fucking sucks

fuck megascatterbomb

[eternal haven]

Thats not very nice bro

[potent wolf]

☝️ 👆

why are they different sizes

i think i'm gonna start using🖕instead

[high current]

They’re different points. Also why’s one have a wrist

[potent wolf]

what's your point

(don't answer that I just wanted to say it)

[wild grove]

Valve loves trolling with y'all with wutville-likes, like its an obligation.

[high current]

Honestly probably the best balance mod I’ve heard. The pyro weapon changes he’s proposing are overcooked though, too many stats, too many repurposes. But the scout and soldier changes seemed okay, he didn’t touch the direct hit which is questionable to me, but more fine than not.
Though he added a bunch of anti-pocket-medic stats to some weapons, which just seems like a YouTuber problem imo, pocket medics aren’t that strong or that prevalent unless you’re stacking pocket medics, which is then a YouTuber problem.

[oblique tangle]

so bad

https://store.steampowered.com/app/824270/KovaaKs/

Steam

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Recommendations

31217

▶ Play video

[left sand]

is the quick fix blast jump link good or bad?

[eternal haven]

It's good because you can troll the medic

[rare creek]

it's good when everyone is paying attention

[left sand]

my problem with it, is that it enhances medic mobility to such a large degree theoretically

however, in practice is the soldier really gonna help the medic at all times to escort

[next nymph]

bad, it lessens the positioning and gamesense requirements to medic

[orchid sorrel]

I dont like it because it makes it more annoying to heal a soldier if they are blast jump happy

Go to top off the soldier and he instantly jumps and now im just in the skybox for no reason

Same with how it mirrors demo charges

[burnt dragon]

its bad cause it isnt actually blast jumping and you cant trimp off of ramps

[eternal haven]

trolled

[potent wolf]

its funny as long as you arent the medic

good thing i dont play medic

[eternal haven]

Hazard crew should check if the medic's steam id is Niterux's and only enable it if so

Doesnt tf2 check stuff for robin walker's steam id

[potent wolf]

for the condump thingy

iirc it checks for multiple valve employees

[eternal haven]

Wait will hazard crew be steam

or epic games store

or neither?

[rare creek]

good old games only

itch.io download link sent through discord dms only

[left sand]

steam

[burnt dragon]

will everyone here get a free key for it or will we pay 2x the price?

[left sand]

2x0?

[burnt dragon]

we are paying double then

truly this is a sad day

well at least now I can get the early birb badge, opposed to tf2 badge from 2013 :(

[left sand]

its gonna be the early worm badge

the early giant sand worm gets the bird

[high current]

I’ve always considered it a bad thing just because it’s kinda wonky. I’ve never seen a quick fix medic successfully attached for more than the first jump and pencil jumping is bad, especially as medic.

I dont know how you could fix that though, maybe if the beam was just a rigid pole in effect, but then what happens when a soldier zig-zags through a hall?
Or maybe it could just apply the same knockback as the soldier receives (is this what tf2 does?), but then I feel like rocket jump input is to precise for you to actually stay with your soldier. Like you could follow them with strafes, but speed shots would be damn near impossible to coordinate, ramp slides and other precise landings would be absurdly difficult.

In theory I think it’d be really cool. But I don’t know that there’s a way to achieve anything better than a pencil jump or at best a wall pogo.

[wild grove]

For comp, yeah, the quick fix medic jump is dumb, in casual gameplay, its a meme, look at me psuedo market garden a enemy with my ubersaw.

[high current]

Meet the demo pipe physics 👀

Even in casual it’s never felt intuitive to me. It’s more like riding a roller coaster where you’re just like “guess I’m going here now” rather than rocket jumping

I’ve tried to rocket jump some friends with it before (me on soldier). And it’s very difficult as well, because in a live game even if you’re setting up for a wall pogo, there’s not many totally flat walls without corners for your medics to get stuck on.

Maybe skill issue though, idk

[rare creek]

is mastercoms legally allowed to make this game considering they have looked at the tf2 source code before

[wild grove]

are numbers copyrighted lol

[eternal haven]

yes

[oblique tangle]

i have copyrighted the number 9

[wild grove]

number 6 with extra dip

[eternal haven]

Does anyone understand how item drops in tf2 work

I've been playing on the mac tf2 (old version of the game) for like 6 hours and received one singular weapon drop

I don't understand why it wasn't either 0 or like 10

[wild grove]

You get drops randomly when you play on a server, there's a cap but it can be extended if you don't play a lot if I remember correctly.

[high current]

I assume so as long as mcoms doesn’t steal any of the code that isn’t open sourced.
There’s also some weird copyright rules that people don’t realize exist that basically say that components that are strictly functional aren’t protected under copyright. Idk how that applies to code, but with legal advice or just better understanding than I have, you could probably directly copy chunks of Valve’s code (not that Mcoms plans to do so).

But I don’t think having seen the source code has any bearing on whether Mcoms can or cannot make the game. Only that if they were accused of IP infringement that it could be used as evidence against them.

Unless they had to sign something like a non-compete agreement in order to gain access to it. But if they did then I assume they wouldn’t have gone this far.

[wild grove]

There was only 3 times in the U.S where game companies went to court over another game feeling and looking similar to theirs, but it was during the infancy of gaming. So tetris, pacman, and another game I don't remember.

although from that pac man one, the infringing game had twists that made it different from pac-man.

[grim parcel]

can you sticky jump

[left sand]

yeah

[next nymph]

grappling hook medigun

[left sand]

instead of giving medic a speed link, what if medic gave his patient a 6% speed boost (if the patient was slower) + he got a temporary speed boost to run to an ally that was far away but not too far away?

[next nymph]

(for real though I just don't think medic should have more mobility than just a faster runspeed, unless there are significant limitations like no healing while doing it)

[left sand]

basically like a link with no heal

and basically you get a speed boost when moving in the direction of the linked player

[next nymph]

what if medic gave his patient a 6% speed boost

I think any sort of mobility changes / mechanics should be based on the users input, not something someone else does for them. Too easy to throw you off otherwise

[left sand]

starts out slow at max range, speeds up at mid range, slows down again at min range

min range being heal range

[wild grove]

Ooh maybe make it like a slipstream mechanic in racing games?

where the more you stay in the same direction as the one being healed, it shows visible signs of a speedboost immenent, then speedboost, you could even make the length shorter or longer dependant on class.

[high current]

Eh. I think if you make things more complicated it loses elegance and skill expression.
Like you start seeing every medic just hold an identical distance from their target instead of making dynamic use of spacing to prevent enemies getting between, baiting to avoid bombs, getting close to better block incoming damage, etc.
I think nuance in simpler mechanics is more interesting than explicitly rewarding more complex mechanics.

At least from a player perspective. I guess big flashy mechanics are more interesting to inexperienced spectators, but to experienced spectators and players a perfectly executed simple mechanic can be way more mindblowing than something big and flashy.
Like no Mercy movement will ever be as impressive as Shade’s bhopping or airstrafing on medic to keep pace with heal targets pre-scout-speed. And bhopping in TF2 is a super marginal mechanic.

[wild grove]

give me a moment I am thinking rn.

because I disagree but I can't put into words why.

[next nymph]

we're of a similar mind, these are my thoughts as well

[wild grove]

Actually I think this idea is better.

[wild grove]

There's something in the text 2 texts above that I disagree with but I don't know WHAT it is.

Cause from someone who doesn't see comp from either game, why does overwatch get more viewers than tf2 if you think that.

other than visibility of tf2 comp.

[radiant merlin]

can we have troll demoknight meta?

[next nymph]

i gotta be real i think overwatch is more of a successful spectator esport mostly because blizzard invested millions into tournaments. Any individual game mechanic pales in comparison

[wild grove]

Its more complicated than money and visibility when I researched.

so complicated, I decided I didn't want to persue it further, my brain hurts.

[wild grove]

make demoknight a class and make em comp viable 😈

"In competitive Team Fortress 2, a Demoknight (Demoman with a shield and melee weapon) is generally considered a niche strategy, viable in specific situations but not a primary choice due to its reliance on flanking and picking off isolated enemies, sacrificing the class's main damage-dealing capabilities from the sticky bomb launcher, making them vulnerable to coordinated teams and requiring strong support from a pocket Soldier to be effective; essentially, it's a high-risk, high-reward playstyle." A.I might be on to something here.

This was so worth the smoke from google's A.I factory.

[next nymph]

not to say game design doesnt have an impact, it has a very big one. But I dont think its as simple as "more successful game should be emulated instead of less successful game"

[cursive peak]

I do believe some of the TF2 pros who made the switch to Overwatch said they'd be back in an instant if there was actual money to be made in TF2.

Imagine if i46 had been a tournament with like $250k in the prize pool.

[left sand]

i really like all this discussion!

[velvet raft]

you won't believe this

but this is actually a jojo reference

[wild grove]

Wait this is 4 fucking hours, whyyyy

other content creators explained the whole mym shit way shorter and without the unnecessary harassment.

Lmao

[glass musk]

TF2 players are insane

[wild grove]

some are fr fr, I aint generalizing, cause I met my best friend in tf2.

[glass musk]

I guess I should've said hardcore TF2 fans

does Zesty even play other games

[high current]

It’s so drawn out. I watched the first hour and it was so inflated. Like ignoring who made it or what it was about, there was just SO MUCH blabbering for every single point. Easily could have been 1/4 the length with the same content

[glass musk]

I like casual

[high current]

The first 30 minutes was just glazing tf2. The second 30 minutes was just establishing what tf2 was like pre-MYM. I got to 1:10:00 before I had to leave to work and I just got into the actual release of MYM.

[left sand]

i literally skimmed through like each section for 10 seconds

and i think i understood the video

[glass musk]

I wonder if most tf2 players would prefer quickplay or casual

if you could somehow poll it

[high current]

Casual is fine. Frankly anyone who says we should revert back to quickplay probably didn’t ever play during Quickplay.
Which is also a point the Zesty makes. But I’m pretty sure the next 3 hours will be him complaining about competitive players ruining TF2.

[left sand]

i think quickplay is a good way to finding a new healthy community, and then there should be a second step to coming back to them

[cursive peak]

I still prefer the server browser.

[left sand]

like favorites

[high current]

Are we including people who haven’t ever played during Quickplay?

[small siren]

*Are we including

people who haven’t ever

played during Quickplay?*

- peachestv

[glass musk]

only include active players or people who log on from time to time (not too long ago)

but include all of them in those groups

[high current]

The main issue with quickplay WAS community servers, they spoofed players ran obnoxious ads, circumvented Valve’s trust. That’s why Valve stopped including community servers in Quickplay by default.
Which basically quickplay to Casual with a worse UI.

[high current]

I think people who didn’t play during Quickplay shouldn’t have a say on Quickplay versus casual. It’d be like me going “man the 60s sure were a great time for the US” as someone born in the late 90s.

Meanwhile the US is trying to return to the 1860s, but that’s a different conversation.

[glass musk]

well, I'd wager that most people who played Quickplay stopped playing a long time ago you can say the same thing about them not playing casual. times change personally, I like the casual medals, and I feel like the game would be somewhat boring without them if there's no progression

[high current]

Eh. I know a lot of people who played in quickplay and still play. I don’t think it’s super rare, tf2 is a pretty dedicated community.

[glass musk]

fair

[radiant merlin]

hopefully valve will add quickplay this year

[cursive peak]

If you're in a community server with regulars, you'll see progression as you improve and those better than you stop being that much better than you.

I ended up in the top 5 or 10 Pyro mains in an old community. Started out as a nobody.

[high current]

Problem is new players don’t care about that. They want shiny badge and funny ding sounds. If they removed casual the game would die 100%

[radiant merlin]

it probably can be integrated to quickplay

[wild grove]

just remove valve comp and put mastercom's quickplay there instead

[radiant merlin]

6s quickplay

[wild grove]

yes 😈

[radiant merlin]

no ranks, just playing with restrictions

[wild grove]

mwahahahhahah

quickplay is back!
rose tinted glass wearers: :D
its 6v6!
:Ⴇ

[high current]

I’d rather staple my butt cheeks together than see Valve Quickplay added back.

[wild grove]

The only change I wanted in casual was the pure setting but that basically happened without em doing anything

Like I am personally okay with the grab and go nature of casual

like you get into a match, you can leave and requeue for another one once its done but you still have the option to stay.

[left sand]

thoughts?

also i tried making the baked lighting similar to Source

[eternal haven]

Bro do the leaves on the suijin trees move

[radiant merlin]

don't think so

[eternal haven]

I swear I just played a valve casual game on suijin and the pink leaves on all the trees were spinning around

back and forth

never seen that before in idk how many hours

[kind falcon]

did you know tf2 has caustics

[left sand]

tried replacing some unlocks, mostly melees with abilities

idk if its workable

maybe for a season 2

[summer steeple]

yeah, there's a pretty good chance that when I play the game someone says a slur

[kind falcon]

i meant water caustics

i dont know any other definitions of that word

[left sand]

joke

[kind falcon]

if someone said a slur in your game it was me

[left sand]

?

joker?

[kind falcon]

no yoker

[paper sluice]

The joker from binding of Isaac

[left sand]

https://tenor.com/view/caustic-blackheart-caustic-apex-legends-apex-caustic-noting-this-down-gif-9898135034112020486

[eternal haven]

Swear I've never seen this before

[summer steeple]

its kind of a synonym of toxic

[summer steeple]

wtf

[left sand]

dx8 issue

[kind falcon]

yes yes

[summer steeple]

looks like fucked up treesway

[eternal haven]

It's mac

dx9

togl

[left sand]

mac issue

[kind falcon]

why you got a wind entity

[eternal haven]

Maybe

[kind falcon]

ur cheating

[summer steeple]

but i don't think suijin's trees have treesway

[left sand]

unreal engine grass sway in tf2

[kind falcon]

ur cheating u added that to tyour game YGOURE CHEWATING

[summer steeple]

yeah suijin hasn't been updated since 2015, and treesway was added to tf2 with JI

unless you like, played a previous map that had the japan trees that modified them to have treesway and it failed to reload the asset I don't think there's any way it could have it

[eternal haven]

I'll restart the game and load into another suijin and see if it still does it

Nope stopped now

After rebooting game

[kind falcon]

That reminds me of the videogame Counter Strike Global Offensive on the map de_lake Which Featurd a Rock that was affected by Wind

Subscribe for more neurogenesis

[summer steeple]

yeah it looks like cp_sulfur has modified japan pack assets to add treesway

classic data redundancy issue

i think the only way to fix this would be to add an env_wind entity to suijin

not sure

[kind falcon]

or fix source engine

[summer steeple]

or fix source engine yeah

[kind falcon]

by makeing it Rust

[left sand]

make tf2 in unreal engine

[summer steeple]

making it the game rust or rewriting it in rust?

[kind falcon]

nononoo onnoo no dont do that i want my frames

[kind falcon]

neither

remake it in garry newmans videogame rust

[summer steeple]

oohhhh oxidization

[summer steeple]

wait thats literally the first thing i said

the game rust

[kind falcon]

what da heul

[summer steeple]

no wait sulfur doesn't have a wind entity the tree sway uses $treeSwayStatic

idk why this happens

it might still be data redundancy idk

[eternal haven]

I played several maps before

Can't remember which ones

One was a new map because I had never played it before

probably summer 2024 map

[summer steeple]

was it a steeltype map with japan assets

[left sand]

FRAME GEN ON (MULTI)
RTX ON
FREESTYLE ON
DYNAMIC VIBRANCE ON
AI HDR ON
RAY RECONSTRUCTION ON
DLSS ON (10%)
G-SYNC ON
REFLEX ON + BOOST
G-ASSIST ON

[kind falcon]

amd antilag 2.0 ✅

[eternal haven]

Can't really remember honestly

I'll look at the maps added recently

[summer steeple]

i'm doing forbidden things to look at the treesway code cause now i'm curious

i have no clue why it would do this