#Team Fortress 2 Megathread - winter is the most chill time of year

1 messages ¡ Page 76 of 1

jagged pawn
#

ye that

summer steeple
#

I just don't know why you'd put a spawn door there

jagged pawn
#

it is really weird that there's a spawn door right there lmao yeah

#

odd choice

small sirenBOT
#

*it is really weird

that there's a spawn door right there

lmao yeah*

- Grapevime
summer steeple
#

its already hard I feel like to push that point from there

#

the only saving grace for blue it seems is red's insanely high respawn time

#

im glad we're getting more steel type maps

#

i've started to enjoy steel more over the years

#

(especially since the updates)

#

but steel type is an interesting map design and I think some maps (like sulfur) can pull it off

#

how old is hadal? its artpass feels very modern but its design feels weird and kinda... old style

#

very experimental feeling

jagged pawn
#

steel is still the best steel-type imo but yeah it has some good competition now

summer steeple
#

like how blue has a noentry in an open area past their spawn door

jagged pawn
summer steeple
#

interesting

jagged pawn
#

added to workshop in 2016 but tf2maps upload is 2015

#

it's recent enough that it should've known better on some of its ideas for sure lol

wispy shale
#

canaveral is extremely fucking stalematey

#

i had two rounds in the same match end in stalemate because nobody could push into last, and the other team couldn't push out of last

wild grove
jagged pawn
#

true true saw that

#

basically new maps from what the update post makes it look like

rare creek
#

d is havent played yet

wild grove
#

btw the wutville rework is still being worked on by the creator, he streams it every so often.

summer steeple
#

i can't wait for the wutville redemption arc tbh

jagged pawn
#

it's been years

#

he needs to go faster bro lmao

#

but yeah so many old maps are getting big updates it's great

#

like steel was already very good and they made it better

#

wutville being actually good is gonna go crazy

#

I hope the layout is still recognizable and he just makes my eyes not bleed

high current
# rare creek

Megaton is pretty fun. It plays kinda like a worse-balanced koth_harvest. You got the snipers on the roofs dominating everyone, some spies and soldiers jumping on the snipers heads and going for epic trick stabs.
The point has even less cover though so it’s a lot more chaotic there. And the sides of the map are a shockingly larger area of basically just water, so people are always getting behind and there are people going for haha-funny-shark strats.

All in all a fun map, but not a balanced map by any stretch.

fleet kite
#

So, just koth_harvest

#

-# I really hate harvest

high current
#

Canaveral is okay. It’s kinda one of those horse-shoe shaped 5cp maps that people never understand the routing for.
Feels a little cramped and jagged at times. There’s a lot of right angles both horizontally and vertically. There’s some open areas to kinda-almost redeem it

jagged pawn
#

megaton gives me orange vibes lol

#

in a good way, it's fun to have a map that's so obviously not meant to be taken seriously

wild grove
#

especially the end of the round, taken a page straight out of gmod

small sirenBOT
#

*especially the

end of the round, taken a

page straight out of gmod*

- woshee
wild grove
#

let's end our gmod play session with a nuke.

#

Honestly the biggest deal with this update was some of the smissmas maps being put in year round (btw there is a bug rn where finishing the final round in one of em causes the next maps to be smissmas only.)

#

so you can technically play wutville in casual during the summer rn.

glass musk
#

its fun

rare creek
#

it's just a boring version of that really cool frankenstein halloween map

glass musk
#

its still fun though if you actually have a good game

high current
#

To me the custom decal option and the removal of aliasing over most convars are big things. The latter is kinda niche but it was nice for certain things.

#

Also RIP being able to alias dimmer_clicked to remove the console error for “dimmer_clicked is an invalid command”.
Unless it turns out that you can alias over a command that thinks it’s not a command.

rare creek
#

why is the custom decal option a big thing when they could already be disabled with mods?

rare creek
high current
#

The mods required preloading and some other set up that just wasn’t worth it to bother using unless you wanted to pretend to be a tftuber.

#

The best thing was the method of disabling them through the hosts file in windows. But that’s meh

#

An easy option is nice for togglability

#

Can add it to streamer modes in huds

#

That way if you wanna bleach your eyes in private you can, then hide it in public.

rare creek
#

u dont disable sprays with streamer mode so tbh it doesnt matterr

high current
#

I forgot because sprays are disabled by default

#

Because of the old cp exploit

rare creek
#

should also disable profile pictures and chat and the server name and just every single external player input reallr

potent wolf
#

yes, actually

rare creek
#

having an actually full proof streamer mode would be nice

formal dew
#

hadal made it in, nice

rare creek
#

i wonder if they used the same contractors they use to moderate cs2 with overwatch to moderate tf2

hidden gyro
#

Changed clipping on cart, now jumpable

rare creek
#

oh wow they made the cart hitbox rounded

#

it's rounded at the front now

kind falcon
hidden gyro
#

😦

high current
fleet kite
#

atom doesnt have a hole

#

0/10

limpid panther
#

thats soooo awesome!

#

I wish I could play right now

left sand
fleet kite
#

yknow what would have been great

#

if they fixed melee hitreg in this update

rare creek
#

it's not broken

kind falcon
#

they shouldve added subtick

rare creek
#

sometimes there will be a desync where your client thinks you hit but the server didnt but that is innevitable without rewriting all the netcode

fleet kite
#

I meant like

#

with teammates

#

for medieval

tough locust
# left sand

i wonder if they already did this on the 27th but were waiting for the update to drop so that more ppl saw it. I already saw someone trying to kick a sniper thinking they were a bot when the update dropped bc they hadn't played in a while

tough locust
#

completely random thought but why do the shahanshah and the equalizer have slightly different stats when they're basically the exact same weapon concept

hidden gyro
#

TF2 community in shambles

tough locust
#

me when I can't say slurs in TF2 for absolutely no reason other than to be edgy:

hidden gyro
fleet kite
#

im seeing (removed from match by system) constantly

high current
# hidden gyro https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1e70ywu/valve_seems_to_be_cracking_down_on...

This post is hilarious for several reasons.

  1. The offender got banned for posting links to cp, but denies cheating accusations. They may be a pedo, but at least they’re not a cheater amirite?
  2. It’s a post about Valve cracking down on racism, on the basis of someone being banned for posting links to cp. Racism is not cp; both are bad, both don’t have a place in any community, but they are not the same. Also cp is a crime, while being a bigot is not (unfortunately). Police or FBI getting involved is much more likely to result in swift action from Valve.
  3. Poster acknowledges “behavior” as a very broad term, then proceeds to extrapolate something specific and unrelated to the entire content of their evidence.
tough locust
fleet kite
#

Huh

#

Ib4 "TF2 player discovers hidden mechanic after 20 years!!"

left sand
#

tf2 boycott going well

#

like come on, be realistic and let people enjoy things

uncut spear
#

I bought the mf doom mask, I am going to die

left sand
#

people are able to play the game without any disruptions for the first time in years

#

and have fun

uncut spear
#

(would've bought the Gordon stuff but it's only for medic so no)

left sand
#

let them celebrate that and support valve which invested so much into keeping this game alive

uncut spear
#

oh yeah is it valid that a person I know said they wouldn't spend a dime on the game until valve actually makes content for it and it's not just community stuff?

#

like that's an optimist mindset but it's valve dawg

hidden gyro
#

Wait

eternal haven
#

Hasn't valve already done what they want?

#

Why are people still boycotting

hidden gyro
#

Neon Annihilator Crits Gas Passer covered players now

#

Got dman

rare creek
#

are people still boycotting???

left sand
#

a lot of people just want new valve content

#

thats the feeling theyre missing

tacit flare
#

The cycle continues..

left sand
#

thats the "good ol days"

#

the constant updates with major content and features and balance changes

tacit flare
rare creek
#

this is why mastercomfig 10 wont be tf2 exclusive

#

gotta jump ship

hidden gyro
rare creek
#

yes

kind falcon
#

comfig for youtube

left sand
# tacit flare

idk i feel like this is a bad interpretation of whats going on

#

always has been

#

its not like valve instantly does things

tough locust
tough locust
high current
# left sand tf2 boycott going well

I thought the idea was a monetary boycott.

I mean it’d be futile for sure. Of the 300k signatures from the petition, if half actually played the game, maybe half of that would buy anything worth $20 anyway, and maybe half of that have the self control to not buy the funny Gordon freeman loadout.
All that would equate to $750k, and that’s with EXTREMELY generous estimates. That’s something like 0.006% of Valve’s annual profits.

kind falcon
#

time for artifact and dota underlords boycotts then

#

those are obviously profitable

high current
#

I saw a news article headline that apparently Artifact is gaining some traction out of nowhere. I didn’t read it because I couldn’t care less. But funny meme nonetheless

cursive peak
crisp cedar
jagged pawn
#

lmao

#

the year of artifact

orchid sorrel
#

Year of luigi when the year of artifact rolls in

eternal haven
#

How will anyone play tf2 with 5 computers

cursive peak
#

No idea. Could be the casting area.

summer steeple
#

for team fortress 2, valve reduced the team size from 6 to 5

fathom eagle
#

I'm assuming the latest version still works fine with the new updates yeah?

jagged pawn
#

of what, mastercomfig? yes it works fine

glad marsh
#

last lan they just put a temp setup at the corner

kind falcon
#

thats where they should put roam soldier

floral sandal
#

hlmv dosen't work in latest version for my end

summer steeple
#

so i just found out something

#

the reason I didn't get any notifications for the bans until well after the update

#

was seemingly because they only added the GC messages for it in the second update on that day

image.png
#

in todays update the only notable things I found were that they updated some of the item definitions for the maps that got their category swapped so it now says the correct one

#

(this is used for items that reference the map, like stamps and strange prefixes)

#

also they removed particles/empty.pcf

image.png
#

rip in peace

#

I can only assume that it was, in fact, empty

left sand
#

those notifications existed for a while, i wonder what's new about these

summer steeple
#

yeah I kinda figured i was missing something, they didn't update the localization files or anything so clearly it already was there

potent wolf
#

SendAccountBannedNotification

#

what does it say for this?

summer steeple
#

presumably its this
#1072696252162117752 message

#

but as far as i can tell its not a new localization string

#

like its been there

#

so idk if it just like

#

wasn't working before or?

radiant merlin
#

always unlucky af, didn't receive a crate yet :c

potent wolf
#

banned_accountid
report_period_begin
report_period_end

#

what are these

summer steeple
#

i don't know!

#

you're the reverse engineering expert trollfig

potent wolf
#

how could you!

kind falcon
potent wolf
kind falcon
#

words... what do they mean

#

i wonder how many notifs ive got

summer steeple
#

bruh

#

so i fucking wanted to buy stuff from the mann co store

#

and i copied the link to the checkout to my browser since the in game overlay wasn't working

#

and it added the wrong amount of funds

#

and won't let me add only the remaining couple sents

#

because for some reason on my browser the tax is different???

kind falcon
#

❓

summer steeple
#

FUCK YOU

image.png
#

IT MISSED 13 CENTS

image.png image.png
kind falcon
orchid sorrel
#

yea but its not a lot more

#

like 12c extra per key

summer steeple
#

I can't even fathom why it wouldn't calculate it correctly

#

it still has my billing address

kind falcon
#

every penny counts but im a cheapskate

languid haven
#

anyone hear about the Vscript changes?

orchid sorrel
languid haven
#

but hey if i wanna sell my hypno eyes now it just means i'll have to do it the sketchy way instead of through steam.

#

community purchases count too so as long as you buy something for 3 cents every 11 months you're fine unless you get liked out with a single penny on your account

orchid sorrel
#

i responded because the funds will probably just get put on hold for 3 days

languid haven
#

that's fucked up

kind falcon
#

buy a 10 cent game

kind falcon
#

caustic texture clipping

image.png image.png
eternal haven
#

Disturbing

kind falcon
#

Undocumented change: !freeachivments chat command added to casual.

image.png
small sirenBOT
#

*Undocumented

change: !freeachivments chat command

added to casual.*

- lowrule
kind falcon
#

Texture

image.png
kind falcon
#

objective opinion

image.png
jagged pawn
#

applejack too high

kind falcon
#

slop maps

#

everything is too high

jade scroll
#

my current thoughts on embargo so far summed up

flagship.png
#

it feels like its trying way too hard and doing much in trying to be the big centrepiece map of tropic crisis

kind falcon
jagged pawn
#

haven't played it yet so no idea if I agree

kind falcon
#

overgrowns got a train that you can ride just like on nana island .. so its obviously sss tier

floral sandal
#

Odyssey best map hands down imo. detailing is great and I like the verticality offered to defenders

#

also on a constant gradual decline along the track

#

not confusing to navigate unlike some other maps in the bunch

radiant merlin
#

downward

#

too much height difference

#

allows base jumpers to be too aggresive, and some roofs are not clipped

small sirenBOT
#

*allows base jumpers

to be too aggresive, and

some roofs are not clipped*

- ashewiki_tf
wispy shale
#

my only gripe with some of them are that they use too saturated colors

#

some of the smissmas maps from last year were similar, they tend to have these super saturated non-team colors on the map and it makes them really hard to look at sometimes

#

if you look at most valve maps you'll notice that the colors tend to be very soft, with the only exceptions being red and blue in the teams' bases

#

it's mainly just overgrown and embargo that suffer from this though, with the very saturated oranges and browns

floral sandal
wispy shale
#

Turbine winter and galleria also suffer from this, though they're from previous updates

#

The artstyle deterioration is spreading to the maps themselves which is arguably even worse than on the cosmetics

high current
# kind falcon objective opinion

Embargo is kinda cheeks tbh. It's a really cool map, but it plays like pl_venice in the way it just lacks health packs, ammo packs, intuative routing, and just generally feel like it was made by a mapping community outside of TF2.

wispy shale
#

CSGO map makers

#

No joke, venice was made by a CSGO mapper

#

That's why it looks and feels so strange in TF2

floral sandal
#

veince felt so ehhhhh. Like it obviously needed another artpass and also got reworked hard immediatly after release

high current
#

I liked the concept cachoeira, but it felt like it wasn't quite finished. parts of it just feel kinda empty and the pack placement was really clunky imo. Felt like it didn't get playtested enough in development imo. But I like the general layout.

jagged pawn
#

is this the most peak streak in tf2 mapper history?

image.png
wispy shale
#

Might be

high current
velvet raft
# wispy shale CSGO map makers

well, it's true that a TF2 map maker can make a good CS map, and not the other way around but it's kinda dumb idk, both are from the same company

#

TF2 is a well crafted game, not everyone knows how to make classes work, but a CS map maker is talented enough to make a good map with enough dedication and investigation

high current
#

That's kinda what I mean. You can get a pretty good layout and a beautiful design and world building. But pack placement is a thing that I feel like is a unique intuition among tf2 mappers.
Even Overwatch which has a dev team that has been working with health packs for nearly a decade now feels like they don't know how to place them.

There's other quirks unique to tf2 mapping, but that's one that stands out a shocking amount to me.

wispy shale
#

Good pack placement can be surprisingly difficult, yeah

floral sandal
#

Contrary to what I've heard thus far I think megaton is very well designed for an environment that's intended to be open and accessible from far away via sticky/rocket jumping. The point is angled so the top floor and bottom passage don't create large sitelines, and going onto the canopy sufficently exposes snipers to crossfire

#

there are also small air pockets under the docks for cover

wispy shale
#

I think valve really could use more quality control with what they add, the cosmetics have definitely improved but maps are harder to judge

#

Though they did let wutville into the game so ehh

floral sandal
#

petition valve to remove select maps trollfig

wispy shale
#

Honestly the map pool could be culled a bit since some of the maps are just never played or even liked

#

Like who the fuck plays junction

high current
#

I don't think any of the maps recently were glaringly bad. And iirc embargo had some decent backing to it, probably because of its flashy custom features.

jagged pawn
#

I think I've realized over time that I just don't agree with the average tf2 player tbh. like this most recent cosmetic case is the worst one I've seen in years, and it's very easily the best map pool an update has had for the last 5+, yet I'm seeing the opposite opinion pretty much everywhere

floral sandal
#

CSGO removed maps from rotation every season, and Valve has moved arena maps out of selection in past. It could be done

jagged pawn
#

but no one wants it

#

"grrr remove the maps I don't like" when you can literally just uncheck a box is extremely immature lol

high current
#

I probably wouldn't have personally given it the greenlight, but I think the average tf2 play who doesnt have an inherent intuition for pack placement anyway wouldn't dislike the map

wispy shale
#

Ideally I'd like all the crappier maps to get updated to fix their crappiness, since I've always thought that there's no such thing as too many maps, only not enough good ones, but that'd require the mapmapkers (or even valve themselves in some cases) to go through reworking them all

high current
#

I think valve could tone down the addition of new cosmetics though. None were glaringly bad imo, but 80% of them, and most recent seasonal updates, I felt were cosmetics I thought were already in the game because of how similar they are to others.

jagged pawn
#

cashworks and enclosure got reworked in this update, and a wutville remake is in production

#

steel update wasn't exactly a rework but it got a lot of changes recently

#

these will probably start happening more

high current
#

At this point I feel like we have so many options for hats, individual hats lose their recognizability and you just generally go "oh, its a guy with a golf hat" or whatever.

wispy shale
#

The pool we already have is so broad that it's getting harder and harder to implement entirely distinct ones

floral sandal
#

I think the 2024 cosmetic case is one of the best in recent memory alongside 2023 and blue moon, people seem to really love or hate it. (addendum: Blue moon isn't "recent" but it lives in my memory lol)

wispy shale
#

I think it's a better problem to have than all of the hats being gaudy artstyle-breaking slop though

high current
jagged pawn
#

these are all in the summer 2024 case

#

these are all significantly worse to me than any "artstyle-breaking slop" that people like to dunk on because it's silly

wispy shale
#

Yeah these are a little goofy

floral sandal
#

soldiers hands look like a ps2 blockout but the rest are passable imo

wispy shale
#

The problem happens because they don't really have a way to disable existing parts of the model, so exposed skin has to be modelled over the base model, so they end up looking way fatter than they should

floral sandal
#

medics arms seem out of proportion to his body though

floral sandal
jagged pawn
#

yeah I know why it happens but they simply shouldn't make them then

#

rather than force the idea

wispy shale
#

If valve (or a community fix, even) introduced new bodygroups to make parts of the base model invisible, like pyro's head or demo's feet, these kinds of cosmetics could be executed way better

jagged pawn
#

there was one last year and I guess people saw that valve was ok with this crap so they all started doing it

Bushman.png
#

like sniper is not buff! this doesn't make sense!

jagged pawn
wispy shale
#

Like adding a new bodygroup to all the classes to make their arms or torsos invisible so these kinds of cosmetics could fill in the blank space

#

They already do it for pyro's head for all of his head cosmetics, and demo for the booties, so there's existing precedent for this

#

Though, if they were to do this they'd have to fix that spy disguise bug where the cosmetics don't show up, otherwise you'd get spies running around with missing arms and torsos and stuff

#

For the record I don't hate the fact that these cosmetics exist, I just wish there were a way to execute them better

wispy shale
floral sandal
#

tf2s artstyle passed the point of no return with the banana hat

jagged pawn
#

fully disagree

#

tf2's artstyle passed the point of no return with the camera beard

wispy shale
#

The camera beard is at least funny in context, like it falls within the realm of goofy cartoon spy stuff just like the spy's existing paper masks

floral sandal
wispy shale
#

The potassium bonnet doesn't really fit any of the classes that wear it, it's just a goofy banana for no reason other than to have a goofy banana

jagged pawn
#

the bit is that the game was always silly. the bonnet was added in a time when poopy joe was very relevant to the lore

wispy shale
#

yeah it was always silly, but it was a controlled silliness, if that makes sense

#

in fact i'd argue that the camera beard is an example of that

summer steeple
#

maps are also extremely hard to make

floral sandal
summer steeple
#

oh i was scrolled up too far

#

anyway maps are hard to make and test because the biggest place for testing maps is primarily played by other mappers, so you mostly just get povs of other mappers, rather than actual general player population

#

plus the scope is just way bigger

jagged pawn
#

like

2012: Doomsday
2014: Asteroid
2015: Potassium Bonnet
2017: Banana Bay

I feel like this is fine? they were going somewhere with it, it probably would've continued if the game didn't end with JI

summer steeple
#

banana bay is community tho

wispy shale
#

yeah and so was the potassium bonnet

summer steeple
#

was it?

#

i mean i guess that makes sense

jagged pawn
#

so there was some level of involvement

wispy shale
#

though if we're talking about artstyle derailment i'd like to give a mention to pink and lime paints

Painted_Potassium_Bonnet_32CD32.png
jagged pawn
#

that's a paint issue not a cosmetic issue imo

#

but yes pink and lime paint are ass

floral sandal
wispy shale
#

this is probably a big reason why the potassium is as bad as it is, people just paint it in gaudy ass colors and it looks even worse

jagged pawn
#

probably the single worst thing added to the game in terms of "artstyle"

#

they're horrible

#

not the bonnet's fault tho

#

I suppose the region shouldn't be that big

floral sandal
jagged pawn
#

if I were to make one "artstyle-fixing" change it would be to change the hex code of the pink/lime/black/white paints

#

nothing else in the game is as vivid as those four

jagged pawn
#

this is of course speculation but I don't think it's particularly out there

wispy shale
mystic turtle
#

can't wait to see the scunts rage about it /j
but in all seriousness, it would definintely tone down some of the zanier colors in line with game artstyle

floral sandal
#

not sure why Valve ever felt paints were a good idea in a game where deliberate color choices were crucial for recognizing enemy highlights

wispy shale
#

probably because, initially, painted stuff only took up a small part of the player model

#

the red and blue remained the prominent colors

#

but as the game's cosmetic selection grew, we slowly got more and more cosmetics with larger paint regions

#

and now you have shit like that one pyro set

floral sandal
#

it was short sided to think community cosmetics wouldn't incooperate larger paintable sections

wispy shale
#

you know the one

#

also "a color similar to slate" is awful it looks too much like blue

#

especially if you pair it with one of the war paints that is just inexplicably blue with no red version

floral sandal
#

I think the best solution would to be to make all paints have opposite clashing colors similar to teampaints, following a complete palette. very rough example of what I mean

image.png
inland scroll
#

just the worst offenders

#

no need to turn every paint team-colour

wispy shale
#

Every paint being team-colored might actually be really nice

#

Since some colors only really look good on one team but not the other

floral sandal
#

there's no way you could possibly confuse teammates if implemented

small sirenBOT
#

*there's no way you could

possibly confuse teammates

if implemented*

- protomojojojo
inland scroll
#

the problem with that is the counter-colours don't always work well with the other team's colours if you have a fully monopainted loadout

#

and then there's purple

floral sandal
#

purple shouldn't be included trollfig

#

used only as an example

#

all colors would be heavily desaturated and light

wispy shale
#

The reason australium gold is my favourite paint is that it looks good on both sides, regardless of whether you're red or blue since yellow just looks nice on either of them

inland scroll
#

purple is likely the worst offender of the "ambiguous" paints and its opposite is just as bad

wispy shale
#

Green looks fine on blu but on red it just looks like christmas

inland scroll
#

and yellow is my least favourite

wispy shale
#

Some paints I just struggle to find good uses for

#

Like dark salmon injustice, it feels like that one is only good for making foreskin-themed loadouts

inland scroll
#

that is precisely what the skin paint is for yes

#

making fully painted objects look like horrible deformities

jagged pawn
#

yeah cosmetic makers definitely pushed the boundaries of it

#

it started tasteful

wispy shale
#

if valve kept 4 teams from tfc do you think they'd have just not added paints at all

#

because by that point the restrictions on what colors can be used would be so strict that you might as well not bother

wild grove
#

You aren't gonna see improvements or innovations to paid content like ever because the game is in a similar state to a dead mmo, sure it's gonna be maintained, hell maybe a welcome surprise every once in a while, but everything is gonna stay stagnant.

#

actually not even a dead mmo, more like a fan revival of a dead mmo.

wild grove
# wispy shale

This only works in the front lol, the side, back has 99% team colors, plus it's ugly af, realistically, when I did this once, it only worked once, it stopped working, and I ended up selling everything off for something better. This shit is overblown.

#

I also encountered it, again, only worked one time.

wild grove
wild grove
#

Actually the one with the water on atom smash is intentional.

#

Also all maps suck until I win, then they are the best maps ever!

small sirenBOT
#

*Also all maps suck

until I win, then they are

the best maps ever!*

- woshee
fleet kite
#

That's art

wild grove
#

Ok that first image, I can't reproduce on my end at all.

kind falcon
rare creek
#

why is tf2 using 3gb of ram 😭😭😭

image.png
kind falcon
rare creek
#

tf2 should do a 16 bit update to fix this

fleet kite
#

I did in fact run out of memory earlier today according to tf2. Despite having 32 GB total

glass musk
#

I think I got some memory leak when running dx95 and it slowed down my PC

languid haven
#

Have ya tried using DXVK instead?

languid haven
languid haven
rare creek
jade scroll
#

I mean I respect the effort regardless but I feel its better spent on something new

rare creek
#

anyone else notice that there's been a fuckton of people with this loadout lately? wtf valve why did you let this be in the game?

cp_burghausen0002.webp
jade scroll
#

Tbh 13 is in an unenviable position. If I had a finished and genuine map on the workshop that I knew for a fact was just straight fucking awful and valve asked to add it, I dunno what I'd do

#

Do you risk the inevitable harassment and negative attention for the money?

languid haven
#

wait you mean the weapon or the cum ninja head?

rare creek
#

kkk loadout 😔

#

ive been seeing tons of people with it lately like is this some kind of 4chan psyop or is it a new cosmetic???

high current
#

It’s not new. I guess it’s the usual bigots that’d normally drop slurs out of genuine hate or out of idiotic edginess. But now they’re scared they’d be banned for saying those words so they use hats that if you squint kinda look klan like. That or they got chat banned (not sure if that’s a thing in tf2 or not) and want to still do the aforementioned hate or edginess.

Tbh I’d rather them be resigned to a shitty cosmetic loadout than spamming slurs in chat.

#

I haven’t seen that many people running it. But I could just also not notice, I kinda ignore cosmetics 95% of the time.

rare creek
#

wdym scared they'd be banned for saying those words it's a casual server

crisp cedar
#

you do not get banned for text chat in tf2 i can likely guarantee

#

at the very least you wont be banned for saying slurs

#

or just for saying edgy or hateful shit

rare creek
#

yeah valve employees love that kind of shit

crisp cedar
#

that doesnt happen in any valve game at all lol

rare creek
crisp cedar
#

it can only happen in dota and dota only bans you if youre like actually unpleasant to be around for literally everyone

#

like u have to be worse than hitler to be banned in dota through just communication

rare creek
#

and id rather it be text chat spamming slurs because you can at least block those

#

both through the steam text filter and through actually muting people

#

with a hat you can do literally nothing

crisp cedar
#

they probably banned text spammers because they were bots/hackers

#

not because they were posting slurs or cp or whatever people imply

rare creek
crisp cedar
#

there are people saying that accounts that spammed things in valve servers like slurs or links to cp (allegedly) were banned for that exactly

#

i think

#

unless im wrong

#

but this is more than likely to be false

#

and just a coincidence

#

valve has always been very lenient with communications moderation

#

but imo

#

id love to see valve implement dota's behavior score to be steam-wide entirely

#

steam trust

#

whatever

#

but i dont think thats still a thing yet

#

iirc they expressed that they wanted to put this on every valve game and allow other devs to use it

high current
#

I more so meant there’s been the people copy+pastaing about valve cracking down on racism on Reddit. I don’t think they actually are but I think maybe the 13 year olds that find these things funny might believe it

crisp cedar
#

oh huh

high current
crisp cedar
#

its the budget version of the white banana and shades

eternal haven
uncut spear
#

😭

high current
proper tangle
rare creek
tough locust
#

average particle mod:

eternal haven
#

It's so ugly lol

#

doesn't fit tf2 at all

velvet raft
#

idk if i like Team Fortress 2 or Counter Strike more, both are incredible but TF2 it's just so well designed 😔

#

i played Overwatch 2 early today and it was so boring, the design, the movement, the sinergy with the "heroes"

#

idk why people thought that it was better than TF2

rare creek
soft lynx
#

I mean Overwatch was a pretty solid game at release and its targeted audience is simply bigger than tf2. Sure some have jumped the ship once OW2 came around, but it's just a much more modern game

#

And it appeals to a lot more people than tf2 could ever

velvet raft
eternal haven
velvet raft
soft lynx
# velvet raft if you can tell me how it was i would appreciate it a lot

I would take what I experienced 8 years ago with a biiiig grain of salt :p I'd recommend checking out some gameplay from back then. It was pretty chill back then, much more akin to a baby between TF2 and League. Nowadays most of that TF2 flavour in the heroes is gone and is practically just present in the asysmetrical nature of the gamemodes. Other than that it's basically just FPS League. With a fair bit of hard counters (which were present back then as well, but it doesn't feel as opressive as it does now).

soft lynx
velvet raft
velvet raft
soft lynx
soft lynx
#

forgot the link whoops

wild grove
#

and the whats left of ye mod too

languid haven
# eternal haven It's so ugly lol

Not as much as the default ones though i saw unusuals that were like fullbody particles. Seems like those would be perfect for banner effects.

tough locust
wild grove
#

sex appeal sells LOL

#

this is why valve should add more exposed chest cosmetics clearly :D

#

sex update

fleet kite
wispy shale
#

it feels like a lot of class-based games these days like to have an overkill amount of characters to pick from, so they all end up being really shallow compared to how tf2 developed its classes

#

something that people really should've learned from tf2 is that it's often better to make the existing classes more interesting through customisation rather than just adding new classes entirely

#

a class like soldier or demo has way more playstyle variety than most overwatch heroes simply because they can be played in different ways via unlocks, and that's before considering physics-based movement

#

of course it's not impossible to make large character rosters work, fighting games do it all the time, it's just that in the shooter format you don't get nearly as much room for unique moves since you just have less to work with

#

and then you get into issues like moba-style abilities that just aren't fun to play against (think slows/stuns, or late overwatch 1's heavy reliance on shields) or balancing the classes in such a way that they hard-counter each other so you're forced to pick a different class you might not like just because one guy on the other team picked the class that counters you

fleet kite
#

Meanwhile tf2 classes on a basic level all just

#

Shoot guns

#

Aside from spy, engineer and medic ig

wispy shale
#

Fight enemy fast with scattergun. Fight enemy with rockets. Fight enemy with flamethrower, etc.

#

Even engi, medic and spy can be boiled down to "Build things to fight enemy" "Heal teammates to help them fight enemy" "Sneak behind enemy and instakill them"

#

There's a lot less decision paralysis when you keep the classes to broader roles like this, especially if you drip-feed the unlocks to slowly ease the player into customising the classes

#

It also helps because you don't need to learn how to fight 50 different classes, you only need to learn how to fight 9, with slight variations in strategy depending on which particular weapons they're using

#

TF2 isn't a perfect game by any stretch of the imagination but there are a lot of things it still did better than a lot of newer titles that I wish some of them would pick up on

fleet kite
#

Not really relevant but Overwatch also has like 2 total memorable voice lines

wispy shale
#

I think that's partly a consequence of just the sheer number of heroes

#

The talent/budget is spread much thinner across 21 different heroes compared to 9 classes so each individual one gets less attention

fleet kite
#

You just can't beat "entire team is babies"

#

No I think Overwatch heroes fall into the hero trope a bit too much

#

They're all cool and edgy and stuff

#

But most importantly overwatch does not have conga. If they add conga I will play it more

radiant merlin
drowsy marlin
#

Dude the main point caps way too fast on that map

#

Other than that its a great map

#

cp_steel type maps will never not be fun

summer steeple
#

yeah i only played it once, so i definitely am missing something but it definitely felt like the map got harder for blue when they capped

#

the place where you're supposed to push from as blue after you cap C is right next to a spawn door

summer steeple
summer steeple
jagged pawn
#

lmao

#

attempted frontflip

proper tangle
#

he failed

#

skill issue

tough locust
radiant merlin
burnt dragon
#

back to spawn he goes

fleet kite
half rose
kind falcon
# half rose

tf2 is so weird why you got korean nazis over there

small sirenBOT
#

*tf2 is so

weird why you got korean

nazis over there*

- lowrule
half rose
#

😏

kind falcon
soft lynx
wispy shale
#

I've seen "hero shooter" rise in popularity as a term, even retroactively being applied to TF2, maybe "hero shooter" can be the overwatch style of having tons of heroes and "class-based shooter" can be everything else

heavy solarBOT
#

@wispy shale has leveled up! (5 ➜ 6)

levelup.png
left sand
#

i dont think theres a meaningful distinction

wispy shale
#

But really I think the fault is just in the fact that they fail to give the characters enough depth

#

Seeing as fighting games get away with having huge character rosters pretty often, I don't think it's necessarily impossible for a shooter to pull it off, but I'm yet to see one

limpid panther
#

of course, its a spectrum but this is the gist of it

wispy shale
#

Especially since in shooters, the distinctions between classes mostly come down to what guns you can use (provided classes aren't just entirely passive stat changes or buffs) so the easiest way to make the class more deep is letting them swap out their default guns for different ones, ie: the TF2 way of doing things

#

TF2 in particular gains so much out of this approach that I have to wonder if the alternative is even really worth doing in the first place

left sand
#

i think its an arbitrary distinction to isolate older games

wispy shale
#

It's probably a better idea to just use an extra descriptor rather than splitting genres

#

So games like overwatch would be described as rigid, since each hero's kit comes as-is, while a game like TF2 would be non-rigid because the classes are customisable

velvet raft
#

have you guys heard of tf2?

soft lynx
#

it's a great shooter with mechs

heavy solarBOT
#

@soft lynx has leveled up! (2 ➜ 3)

levelup.png
proper tangle
velvet raft
high current
# wispy shale I've seen "hero shooter" rise in popularity as a term, even retroactively being ...

I think class-based is like there’s a vague archetype with access to different unlocks to specify the behavior. Hero based I associate with the character has a fixed loadout and what you get is what you get.

Though tbh “hero shooter” is just a catch all for any PvP game with selectable characters at this point.
“Class / class-based shooter” was never really coined, either because TF1/2 was pretty much the only real example for around 2 decades, or because it sounds like a hate crime.

soft lynx
#

nobody wants to google "top 10 class shooters", especially in america

high current
wispy shale
#

Actually yeah that probably is a good enough reason

#

Great job america, can't keep a handle on your own gun laws so everyone has to suffer from it

#

In the interest of not getting political, let's go back on-topic

half rose
#

🧐

wispy shale
#

Yeah the desk engineer has these pride flag easter eggs on it

#

Pretty neat

#

Naturally certain people are whining about it, because that's all they're good at apparently

paper sluice
wispy shale
#

if TF2 was made today (woke) they would:

  • make scout a twink
  • make soldier, the american patriot, an idiot
  • make pyro agender
  • make demoman black
  • make heavy and medic gay
  • make engineer an amputee
  • give sniper a pissplay kink
  • make spy french
high current
#

Don’t forget loot boxes and microtransactions.
Gotta make sure the youth develop gambling addictions and consumerism!

wispy shale
#

I LOVE GAMBLING!!!!!!!

#

I LOVE GAMBLING FOR EXTREMELY FUCKING TACKY PARTICLE EFFECTS AND WEAPON SKINS THAT DON'T EVEN LOOK GOOD HALF THE TIME!!!!!!!

#

TF2 being the only multiplayer shooter I like anymore, and the shooter that popularised all of the current monetization shitfuckery is the cruellest irony ever

languid haven
wispy shale
#

Especially when said monetization shitfuckery erodes part of what makes the game so good in the first place, looking at you, all of the awful artstyle-breaking cosmetic items

rare creek
wispy shale
#

Though TF2 seems to have gotten off pretty well compared to some other games

#

cough cough nicki minaj in call of duty cough cough

#

Or GTA online with all the orbital cannons and flying bikes and shit

languid haven
#

GTA online being a Peer to Peer multiplayer with no real anticheat.

soft lynx
left sand
#

i dont know how i feel about the pride flags being snuck in

high current
#

Why’s that? I’m not criticizing your opinion I’m just curious

slender nexus
left sand
#

i literally dont know

#

on one hand, this is sort of a community driven pride effort

small sirenBOT
#

*on one hand, this is

sort of a community

driven pride effort*

- mcoms
left sand
#

on the other, i dont know that the integrity of the game is preserved by directly addressing contemporary movements

high current
#

I kinda get that.
Also by sorta sneaking it in it feels a little confidence lacking? Or like almost shameful in a way? Like if it was a small visible thing such as adding stripes to the pencil eraser or something it’d still be an Easter egg but not hidden. Then it’d be like “yeh I’m adding this and supporting pride and if Valve adds it they add it”, but this way was sorta like passing in a way imo.

left sand
#

i dont think its about "bringing politics into games" for example ms pauling coming out as gay is fine

#

but i cant really formulate why im on the fence for this

#

i thought the door was a bit gray/muddy too

#

like i get that people make games, their identity isn't politics, and they want to celebrate something personal to them

#

all of that makes sense

high current
#

For me it’s the sneaking it in that makes me go “holup”

left sand
#

but its something about it being 1, a hidden easter egg, and 2, completely unclever, and 3, reflecting current events which may affect the timelessness of the game

high current
#

What’s the deal with the door? Was there a pride flag on a door?

left sand
#

Tran S Wright

high current
#

Oh gotcha

soft lynx
#

I mean, aren't there plenty of other items added to the game, that reflect/directly address some past events that have happened either before or at the implementation of them?

left sand
#

like what

#

for example, i wouldnt want a never forget 9/11 pin in the game

high current
#

I don’t necessarily take issue with it being not timeless. I think things having relics of their time are okay. It gets lost by some over time, but there’s always those that remember them or can look up what it was about.

left sand
#

i wouldnt want a black lives matter pin

rare creek
#

KKK hat steamhapp

left sand
#

i wouldn't want a stop armenian genocide denial pin

#

i hate the kkk hat

#

that should legitimately be removed imo

#

like the color combo should be refunded and unapplyable

#

i wouldnt want a remember the holocaust pin even though the holocaust happened presumably in the tf2 lore

#

its just too on the nose, too real

crisp cedar
#

to me things like pride flags or things like that in games as features feel kind of forced or something, i dont know how exactly to explain it

languid haven
small sirenBOT
#

*and yet medic broke

his heart and replaced it with

one of a baboon*

- jimbimbum
crisp cedar
#

i understand some of these things are like for awareness but i wouldnt want to be like

high current
left sand
#

flag obsession is imo kinda excessive

left sand
crisp cedar
#

idk i just want to be treated as an equal

left sand
#

not every concept/identity needs a set of stripes flag to identify it

languid haven
high current
#

I wouldn’t be against it. But they’d just start painting the crimes dome white and renaming it to “grand wizard”

crisp cedar
#

when i see things like pride flags as free avatars in games it feels forced or like "hey guys we support you actually" or something

left sand
#

then they need to moderate stuff like that

crisp cedar
#

idk

kind falcon
#

say, joker
why doesnt valve set their profile pics to colored logos in june

crisp cedar
#

i cant put my finger on why i dislike it even if it would represent me

high current
#

And outside of a hateful context, a white crones dome is actually really common for just looking pretty good

crisp cedar
#

it just feels wrong somehow

kind falcon
#

ermmm

crisp cedar
#

would not say so

languid haven
high current
#

White crones domes?

crisp cedar
#

i prefer to remain abstract

high current
#

Or grand wizard?

crisp cedar
#

i dont know

#

i cant explain it concretely

#

because i dont really know how to

#

huh

kind falcon
#

lol

crisp cedar
#

idk i dont know enough to weigh in

#

i never said i enjoy being perceived that way

#

but fair point

left sand
#

but that's something entirely different

crisp cedar
#

i havent considered that, my bad

left sand
#

like i said

crisp cedar
#

sorry i just worded things poorly a lot

#

that is not true

left sand
#

im not talking about you

crisp cedar
#

anyways ill try to reformulate my thoughts hold on

languid haven
#

why not hate everyone equally? wait no that just makes them anti-social my bad.

left sand
#

or anyone in specific

#

im talking about a theoretical thing about desire vs identity

kind falcon
languid haven
#

depends

rare creek
#

i tabbed out for like 3 minutes and now mastercoms is talking about being a "puppy girl"?

kind falcon
crisp cedar
#

bleh

left sand
#

when i say i enjoy

#

i mean "enjoy the privleges of"

#

not enjoyment in the sense of pleasure

crisp cedar
#

oh

#

idk

left sand
#

there is, of course, intersectionality

languid haven
#

fuck i wish i had white privilege, but i'm poor.

left sand
#

but i feel like

crisp cedar
#

urh i guess its right

left sand
#

you need to be more clear and your privilege needs to be in check

crisp cedar
#

im not really going to compete about that either

rare creek
#

what the hell is going on here

languid haven
#

isn't it racist to say people need to be kept in check for their skin color?

crisp cedar
#

im of the opinion that you cant be racist towards white people because theyve never suffered from racism

#

atleast in a way that any other race has

left sand
#

white race doesn't exist

languid haven
left sand
#

thats why you cant be racist against it

#

white race is inherently based upon racism

#

purity and superiority and exclusion

#

no one is actually "white"

rare creek
#

god fucking dammit

image.png
left sand
#

theres 2 components to race

#

melanin levels and inherited genes/culture

#

melanin is completely irrelevant to anything socially so its racist to think theres a distinction

languid haven
soft lynx
#

my god

#

what

#

I hope you can see that in the mod alerts channel lol

potent wolf
#

markdown links are blocked

rare creek
soft lynx
crisp cedar
#

i dont know im not going to turn this into a privilege competition

left sand
#

many white "races" have already died out

#

they always keep dying out because its based on purity

kind falcon
left sand
#

the ink drop test

soft lynx
left sand
#

1 drop of impure blood ruins the white cloth

#

thats what people say

languid haven
left sand
#

by that definition, the white race is already impure many times over

kind falcon
soft lynx
#

It's about the inclusion and referencing of past individuals and ultimately their ideals and how this has been accepted by not just Valve, but the community as a whole. I don't have anything against the items nor what the ultimately represent

#

But there have been and always will be contributions reflecting various ideals of the past and present

left sand
#

idk i think those are tasteful

#

those arent on the nose

#

they arent making explicit statements

#

and they also make sense within the already established official lore

high current
#

In terms of forensic anthropology, race is basically nonexistent as well.
There’s some indicators of general regional backgrounds, such as facial structure of hip shape. But even then it’s only somewhat measurable in places with historical precedents of segregation (US), and you basically need a forensic anthropologist that specializes in discerning those specific regional distinctions.

left sand
#

besides the hitler mustache, idk if mustache = endorsement

languid haven
# left sand 1 drop of impure blood ruins the white cloth

never heard of that from anyone except from people who claim absurd shit like "the opposing party are racists" and people who validate that one senator woman that claimed to be native american. which is really weird why dems acted like it mattered. her last name was warren i think

left sand
#

come on dude

high current
#

That could get you thrown out of white only places, or even enslaved depending on the time period.

soft lynx
#

TF2 itself has always been political as have been many other games it's referencing (Bioshock and Deus Ex to name a few). I don't think hiding some pride flags where you're not really supposed to see them in actual gameplay is that surprising

left sand
#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule

One-drop rule

The one-drop rule was a legal principle of racial classification that was prominent in the 20th-century United States. It asserted that any person with even one ancestor of black ancestry ("one drop" of "black blood") is considered black (Negro or colored in historical terms). It is an example of hypodescent, the automatic assignment of children...

languid haven
kind falcon
#

ur racism timelines arent matching

languid haven
kind falcon
#

dna tests werent as good back then yk ..

high current
#

DNA doesn’t really have a strong correlation to skin color. What causes the production of melatonin has a lot of environmental factors

left sand
languid haven
high current
#

Also they’d just keep extensive family trees. Basically if you were European you were proud of it, if you weren’t then you weren’t European

left sand
languid haven
#

no i mean like 5 years ago or something

left sand
#

then we are talking about completely different things

high current
#

Segregation, legally, ended before the real development in DNA stuff began. There may have been a short period of crossover in DNA forensics and segregation, but they were both in the 70s, so maybe only a decade tops.

#

Then civilian usage of DNA came wayyyy later

slender nexus
#

i have a bad feeling blank3t is gonna smash thru the wall and start lecturing all of us about white queer cracker privilege because we're talking about race

languid haven
#

oh god please no

rare creek
slender nexus
languid haven
#

oh actually has anyone else had steam reduce the amount of hours it said you played a game?

potent wolf
high current
#

Race is also conceptually very different depending on where you’re located. A good example is whether Americans would consider Italians white or not. It’s basically 50/50 because it literally changed based on what was convenient given the Italian immigration rates to the US at a given period.

Brazil on the other hand basically has a full spectrum of white to black “races”. Such as coffee, cinnamon, chocolate (in the Portuguese translation). Social status is partially determined by your skin color at the moment, so even getting a tan can make you lower social status wise in Brazil.

kind falcon
high current
#

In other words, race is arbitrary and has little to no basis in anything scientifically measurable.

languid haven
kind falcon
high current
#

You can stimulate the organ that causes the production of melatonin. Idk if it results in generally darker skin or more freckles though. I forget what exactly did it but it’s a common-ish medication.

high current
languid haven
#

doesn't canada have like 1/10 the population of the usa aswell?

high current
#

Also social sterotypes play into who trends towards doing certain things. If parents raise their sons playing computer games and raise their daughters doing whatever young girls do, then sons and daughters will do those things and often carry it into the age where they’re (theoretically) capable of dictating their own freetime.

Also if you’re a woman of color and you walk into an esports club and it’s a bunch of white guys, you’re gonna feel like the odd one out. Which humans don’t love the feeling of so generally you don’t see people voluntarily going into those situations often.

languid haven
#

if skin color and gender is that bothersome then idk how they survive going to the store for food. it'd be like going to japan and not liking that there's so many asians.

#

or joining a russian server and mad cause people won't speak english XD

high current
#

Communities also often tend to have social-economic pockets for that reason.

#

There’s 2 black families in my neighborhood of 200 homes. Both of them are biracial families too. And the town I live in is actually fairly diverse and reasonably even in terms of income, and fairly progressive.

#

Town of like 30,000. So not like small town where everyone knows everyone.

languid haven
#

honestly sounds nice'

high current
#

It’s on the top 10 best places to raise a family in the US lol

#

It’s because it’s a suburban town in the middle of some major universities in the region.

#

Boring as hell though. There’s one skate park that is paid entry. And the only strip club got turned into a train station.
Never been to the strip club but my old highschool teacher’s son owned it and the company I work for bought the building.

languid haven
#

honestly i prefer it being turned into a train station

high current
#

I mean same. It was just an example, but now there’s literally only restaurants, houses, and parks in the town. And two train stations about 100 yards apart

#

Same rail too

languid haven
#

does it have any places for public events?

high current
#

They built an $80 million park in downtown. But before that town events were just held on the steps of a bank in downtown

#

It’s a nice town. It’s just still got the activities of a small town. Despite being a borderline city.
If you wanna go to a bar with friends or go to an arcade or anything targeting people between the ages of 10-40, you need to go to a neighboring city.

languid haven
#

borderline city like state lines?

#

actually never mind i don't want an answer to that

high current
#

No like it was a small town 30 years ago. Now it’s basically a city, but it’s in denial about it.

languid haven
#

some cities in california are the same way about that. i think it's that no one really wants to be in a city while the stereotypical idea of a city is like new york city.

high current
#

But it’s in the process of zoning for skyscrapers, so in 10-20 years it’ll probably be a full on city. Then it and the neighboring cities are basically going to be like LA where it’s just a conglomeration of cities.

languid haven
#

oh no, as soon as there's skyscrapers everything goes down hill.

high current
#

It’s interesting to see happen. But damn our town has to chill with contracting things to the lowest bidder. I work at the park they built recently, and it basically needs to be entirely rebuilt. Literally the whole irrigation system, waterlines, pump systems, and electrical systems break almost every day. And if they needed to replace that they’d have to go under the concrete walk ways, the plant beds, and grass areas. So like no exaggeration rebuild the entire thing.

#

Eh. Honestly I wouldn’t mind it embracing more city-ness. Right now it’s in a weird state of just kinda gentrifying basically everywhere. If they committed to being a city they’d have to zone for affordable housing, presumably at least.

languid haven
#

that sounds absolutely awful, do they not do oversight incase someone is cutting corners?

high current
#

The issue is the park was planned to open this summer, but our mayor casually announced it’d open in November. So we basically just had to fast forward everything to open 6 months early with no warning. And of course they’re going to go as cheap as possible (budget was 1/2 of what it cost in the end)

#

Like literally our buildings on the park have gutters with no drains. They just catch the water and hold it until it leaks into the structure. Idk where you even buy gutters with no drain.

languid haven
#

them mfs are getting scammed!

high current
#

Honestly when is the government not getting scammed by contractors? In this case it’s just city gov.

tough locust
# left sand i wouldn't want a stop armenian genocide denial pin

i think just especially because these are giant issues with specific nations and stuff while gender things are on a by person basis and u have the power to support it. I don't mind contemporary easter eggs because TF2 is already slipping around between eras. Did you know the high five wasn't invented until 1978????

soft lynx
#

gender, sexuality and all the other things related to it can and are very much country specific issues as well

kind falcon
#

they should remove the flags for saudi arabian players

next nymph
# languid haven fuck i wish i had white privilege, but i'm poor.

i didnt see this mentioned in my quick skim so i think its worth mentioning: you can be privileged and disprivileged at the same time based on different things. Being poor is a huge disprivilege, but being poor and black adds up in a way that being just poor doesn't

languid haven
rare creek
#

remove cosmetics from tf2

#

turn them into nfts so they can be used in other games steamhapp

kind falcon
#

cant wait to use my dlore on tf2

next nymph
# languid haven i was mentioning it as a satrical joke based on things the president has said.

yeah i know it was said in a sarcastic joking manner. But I'm pretty sure it reflects an actual belief you have.

Like when communists joke "eat the rich" it's not just "hey, it's a joke, don't look into it at all." It very much is a reflection of their belief that rich people as a concept is a bad thing and shouldn't exist, even if they're not gonna literally cannibalize them

rare creek
#

what would elon musk taste like medium rare

kind falcon
languid haven
#

if you're confused as to what he meant, that's normal cause neither do i.

small sirenBOT
#

*if you're confused as

to what he meant, that's normal

cause neither do i.*

- jimbimbum
rare creek
kind falcon
languid haven
rare creek
#

i think he'd taste like crack and krokodil

languid haven
#

it's common knowledge that humans taste like pork. don't eat people though.

next nymph
#

see, there we go! Your actual beliefs

I think it's pretty obvious that racial privilege exists though. I've seen a few studies where applying to a job with an identical resume but with a white-sounding name got several times the callbacks as a black-sounding name. That's a barrier that black people face that white people don't. That's what being privileged or disprivileged is

languid haven
rare creek
#

pr

languid haven
#

that's like someone who works in a hotdog factory saying "every now and then someone falls in the meat grinder"

rare creek
#

it's true they just do that sometimes

#

been there

soft lynx
#

just because something is illegal, doesn't mean it doesn't happen lol

next nymph
#

I think the thing you're referring to is "I won't hire a white person for a role obviously suited for a black person due to the nature of their work requiring an intimate understanding of the black experience." Which, yeah, that's absolutely fine imo.

I'm not a lawyer but my understanding is it's not illegal to have such requirements if there's a valid need for them, ie. actors fitting the description of a character in terms of race, gender, etc. that would be illegal if it was for something like an office receptionist job where that shouldn't matter

languid haven
rare creek
#

thank god i only say illegal things on discord

soft lynx
languid haven
soft lynx
#

fines are just a price tag for crimes

languid haven
next nymph
#

I think it's just genuinely a little silly to look at an industry that's primarily white people and always has been, and see someone say "if the best fit for the role is a black person, yeah, we'll look for a black person" and think the industry actually systemically discriminates against white people

high current
#

Universities aren’t technically allowed to have race quotas according to the Supreme Court. But they 100% do. And every couple years a school gets sued over it.

But reality is that there’s still wayyyyy more privilege being white then there is disprivilege.

rare creek
#

we should just start killing white people tbh starting with me you should kill me

high current
#

I will say there are specific companies that push diversity so hard that it’s clearly disingenuous. I don’t necessarily know if Disney is one of them, but they do exist.

languid haven
kind falcon
rare creek
next nymph
# high current I will say there are specific companies that push diversity so hard that it’s cl...

It's two different issues in my mind. A lot of DEI stuff is genuinely corporate virtue signaling that doesn't materially impact the people it's meant to help, though I'm burying the lede a bit because I think the willingness to appear open is worth something (as long as it's backed up by not being exclusionary in practice). But then you see conservatives go on about DEI as a concept where the complaint is really about trying to do anything to help disprivileged groups at all, not really comparable

high current
# kind falcon thoughts on sweet baby inc?

Idk. I don’t really go out searching for the examples cuz I think it’s a bit toxic to do so. But I’ve definitely seen things or heard comments from executives that were clearly swinging way past inclusion and into counter-exclusion basically.

languid haven
#

counter-exclusion?

#

ok there's either forced inclusion or forced exclusion. both seemingly like check box methods.

high current
next nymph
#

The root of the "equality vs equity" debate is that everyone wants equality. But when your future opportunities are based on your past opportunities, you kinda need some amount of (temporary?) equity to get it.

languid haven
high current
high current
languid haven
#

equal outcome is a weird idea. like no matter what you do it's the same outcome. it's like saying theey have so little faith you can do anything they'll just say you crossed the finish line while equality means you have the same chance and start as everyone else and it's your own actions that determine your future.

next nymph
#

@languid haven I think you should stick to what people are actually advocating for and not absolutist stances nobody actually holds

high current
#

Well if you’re poor and discriminated against historically, you’re going to get a worse education, worse home life, worse nutrition, etc. as you grow up you’re not going to get the same opportunities and be able to achieve the same outcome generally. Even if the current environment is theoretically equal (even though it’s very much not)

#

Wealth tends to be able to hold on to wealth through generations where as poverty struggles to break out of poverty. You just can’t afford the tools needed to get out of poverty if you don’t have money.

It can be done. But it’s wayyyyy more difficult than just staying wealthy.

#

And with the same effort a millionaire could just become a billionaire or something.

next nymph
#

to bring it back to privilege, that's what disprivilege is all about. They aren't "it's impossible to ...", they're "you face additional barriers when trying to ..."

languid haven
cursive peak
#

What district you live in matters a lot.

next nymph
#

"other than what district you live in" is hugely correlated to your family wealth, considering wealth usually shows in your housing and property taxes directly fund schools

high current
#

Poor people live in poor communities. Poor communities have poor schools and underfunded teachers.

soft lynx
#

money has such a big impact on your education

high current
#

Poor people can’t drop $40k-200k on a college education.

soft lynx
#

Since it's also usually related to where you can go to school, how much time your parents can offer to help you with school activities, which opportunities you can pursue and many more factors

high current
#

You could get scholarships, but it’s a lot harder to do that from an underfunded school.

next nymph
languid haven
soft lynx
#

There's various studies showing and proving that your social status as well as financial situation has a big effect on it

high current
#

Don’t want to and can’t are very different things.

#

Also middle class is rapidly evaporating in the US at least.

soft lynx
#

and not just there

next nymph
#

like I'm not really sure what the core of your argument is here. Does being poor not actually affect your life in any significant way?

kind falcon
next nymph
#

trolls got bank from all those bridge fees

#

they can afford the best boarding schools for their kids

cursive peak
#

Even in my own life, I can see where money was the barrier for so many things.

languid haven
soft lynx
#

financial distress can manifest itself in more issues than homelessness

#

and they can all have their effects on performance in school, work or social life

cursive peak
#

Not all high schools are equal.

kind falcon
next nymph
#

and even within highschool, getting a job during the schoolyear can have a huge impact on your academic performance. Guess who tends to be the ones working through school?

high current
#

You could also need to get a full time job to support your family. Or your education situation is just so bad anyway that dropping out to work is just a more worth while decision than getting the highschool diploma

languid haven
#

yes but lack of clothes and other things there's salvation army and goodwill. you need money to make money but when you have none to spare or save is when once something bad happens you'll only sink further down.

next nymph
#

nobody's saying "it's literally impossible to make it work" as a poor person. We're saying it's harder

soft lynx
#

being poor isn't just about not having access to specific things

#

it's about what you have to do in order go get access to those things

#

and how that in turn affects your life

kind falcon
cursive peak
#

Like, if you're poor, you can't just up and move to a place with better jobs. Moving is expensive.

soft lynx
#

and sometimes you can't really do anything to get access to those things either. going through a school day without any food/water has an incredibly big impact on your performance in school

#

whether that's your ability to actually retain and memorise information or just simply working during the day

cursive peak
#

I had a friend in high school who's only guaranteed meal was the free lunch she got there.

high current
#

Also food stamps aren’t really super high quality food. It’s like bread and milk and some other things iirc.

soft lynx
#

I mean fuck, I don't know what I'd have done if I hadn't have had incredible friends to help me out or even the lunch ladies allowing me to "add things to a tab" so to say

high current
#

I had friends I’d pass clothes on to through middle school and highschool. Shits tough

small sirenBOT
#

*I had friends I’d pass

clothes on to through middle school

and highschool. Shits tough*

- peachestv
soft lynx
#

and thank god for the people not caring about their plastic returnable bottles or spare change in the vending machines lol

cursive peak
#

If I ever somehow get rich, one of my plans is to personally fund free breakfasts and lunches for every student in the county for as long as I can afford it.

orchid sorrel
#

what are some good "weird" community maps

#

a certain pizza pasta sauce man wants to play some 👼

radiant merlin
#

nice map design

imagen.png
#

30 fps btw

wild grove
#

yeah there's optimisation issues for config users

#

they said in notes that they are investigating.

#

but even then, on good hardware, with 23 bots wearing nothing, the map chugs to 45-50 fps.

radiant merlin
#

"investigating" they made a map with long sightlines and almost no visleafs but they will investigate

wild grove
#

tell em that then?

#

shoutout to wall talking, gotta be one of my favorite genders

tough locust
#

honestly it's just a straight up design issue. maybe they can add occluders to the doors? but otherwise it's a SUPER open map with only sliding door props and displacements blocking vis through the entire thing. It's a fun map but it shouldn't run like shit on a 1080 and a 3600

#

limit of source engine's culling

#

sim,ilar issue with pl_phoenix

summer steeple
#

yeah tbh i think at this point its just like

#

mappers are trying to do new and unique things to push tf2s gameplay and visuals

#

but the engine is just kicking and screaming

tough locust
#

100 percent. by all means any modern game would be able to handle the map design of most new tf2 maps but source is just not designed for big open areas. you can see the same issue in Rotunda which is a shame because it's really pretty visually

#

even upward pushes it sometimes

summer steeple
#

like as far as i know every map added this time around is from an extremely talented and experienced mapper

#

not like some beginner who doesn't know what they're doing

glass musk
#

that map is such garbage haha

#

I can't believe it got added

#

no disrespect to the creator's efforts but it's really bad

summer steeple
#

def needs work

image.png
#

this is with lockpvs right outside blu spawn

tough locust
#

this is wat i mean when the doors need some kind of vis occlusion, source just renders right through them

rare creek
#

isnt this megalo?

tough locust
#

they honestly might have to redesign the map to have the doors open in a way that prevent direct line of sight. maybe make the doors from the spawn points facing in weird directionS? who knows

summer steeple
#

there really isn't much you can do about that though

rare creek
#

it runs fine for me

summer steeple
#

oh, it has no occluders

tough locust
summer steeple
#

that has to be a mistake

#

like someone forgot to enable a visgroup

tough locust
#

maybe we'll get a perf update soon then :P

summer steeple
#

like i feel like it has to be a mistake because the main mapper, void, has been doing this shit for over a decade

#

he has several maps in the game

#

atom smash is also his

rare creek
#

it runs fine for me i think your pcs are just bad

summer steeple
#

lazarus, slasher, slaughter/laughter, sandcastle

tough locust
#

then again sandcastle also runs super bad

eternal haven
summer steeple
#

i don't remember performance issues on it but i wasn't paying attention the one time i played it

eternal haven
#

Oh you can go on top of the roofs btw

#

So maybe that's why the vis sets or whatever are the way they are

small sirenBOT
#

*So maybe that's why

the vis sets or whatever

are the way they are*

- mysterious_eagle_46873
rare creek
summer steeple
#

empty maps aren't very helpful for performance numbers

rare creek
#

🤓

summer steeple
#

due to the way that areaportals work, they're not blocking any visibility from stuff past that building

#

just inside of it

#

so vvis sees that there's a door there and says "yep, we can see through that", and so it renders the whole map

eternal haven
#

At least the sides of it

rare creek
eternal haven
#

Idk if that matters I'm not a mapper

summer steeple
#

it can be an issue but its not in this case

#

they have it set up to cut visleafs at the tip of the roof

#

so if the doors didn't exist

#

they wouldn't render past them

rare creek
#

there runs just as well with people on it are you HAPPY?

koth_megaton0001.webp
eternal haven
#

You can wallbug on the clipping

#

for the center of the building

#

lol

rare creek
summer steeple
#

i mean i can't speak for how well it runs tbh

#

its why i didn't post any numbers

#

i'm just explaining stuff

#

regardless I am gonna make a post passing some of this on to the creator

eternal haven
#

wall bug

summer steeple
#

yeah I found that too

#

but i think thats partially just tf2 collision being shit

#

and sometimes just getting you stuck in the middle of a clip brush

proper tangle
#

this map kinda looks like a worse brazil

summer steeple
#

how

eternal haven
#

Not seeing it bro

left sand
#

because its hard to navigate and no one wants to fight at the central point?

#

i havent played the map but thats brazil for me

summer steeple
kind falcon
eternal haven
orchid sorrel
kind falcon
#

no.

kind falcon
#

awesome map

radiant merlin
rare creek
#

joever

image.png
#

summer tf2 dead

wild grove
#

damn I wonder what valve is using the guest servers on trollfig

rare creek
#

what is a guest server

wild grove
#

(joke about tf2 treatment)

rare creek
#

i dont get it

wild grove
#

guest server as in the servers they only use when needed, i don't think the right wording is guest servers tho.

left pivot
#

does packing huds as vpks provide the same perofrmance benefit as other mods?

summer steeple
#

iirc, yes, but packing things like fonts does not work

#

so you still will need things to be loose

left pivot
#

👍 gracias

wild grove
#

Sounds like a decent compromise

summer steeple
#

i mean idk how the whole packing performance improvement works

rare creek
summer steeple
#

i kinda assumed that if you had a loose folder at all that folder would decrease performance

wild grove
#

mannnnnn I don't wanna answer.

summer steeple
#

unrelated to the contents of it

left pivot
summer steeple
#

😔 yeah

wild grove
#

the performance improvement is the performance of load times.

#

from what I remember

summer steeple
#

right also that

#

its just load times

wild grove
#

having just folders increases the load time.

#

but since huds are usually lighter, people don't really vpk pack them.

summer steeple
#

its coming back to me a little bit now, something about how vpks have a manifest of all their files but regular folders don't

summer steeple
wild grove
#

mhm

rare creek
#

i think having a folder of loose fonts and a vpk would increase loading times as opposed to just having loose files

left pivot
#

is it possible for fonts to be anywhere other than hud/resource?

rare creek
#

because then u have 2 search paths instead of 1

left pivot
left pivot
unborn pecan
#

i like

#

flawhud

unborn pecan
#

i forgot why, but huds don't work as a vpk

summer steeple
#

hurricane reading comprehension challenge

unborn pecan
#

😭

mystic turtle
#

sometimes packing huds into vpks also crashes the game on startup

unborn pecan
#

it's because of fonts, right?

summer steeple
#

yes

unborn pecan
#

ok

mystic turtle
left pivot
summer steeple
#

the thing is since those are default fonts idk if it works differently

#

also fellow everything user

#

literally did the exact same thing lol

image.png
left pivot
#

its so over i got syntax flexed on

#

ok another stupid question if i have a copy of my hud folder just chilling in like tf is that fine

summer steeple
#

it probably won't do anything

left pivot
#

sick

summer steeple
#

like at all lol

left pivot
#

ty again

summer steeple
#

won't break anything or change anything

unborn pecan
#

HOLY SHIT WAHAT

#

A NEW MELEE ONLY MAP

#

WTF

#

BURGHAUSEn

#

WTF

#

THIS IS SO AWESOMSAUCE

hoary geyser
#

yeah

kind falcon
tough locust
#

and it's not even close

unborn pecan