Team Fortress 2 Megathread - winter is the most chill time of year

[eternal haven]

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Master_Server_Query_Protocol#Orangebox

This no longer works I tried it

[hidden gyro]

Where

[summer steeple]

soon™️

[hidden gyro]

2 years, got it

[summer steeple]

yeah

[unborn pecan]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/978106097548283945.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=SaluteStand

Texswag

https://gamebanana.com/mods/518209

Fiend what do u think about this

[left sand]

"ams=2+0,lhr=6+0,fra=8+0,par=9+0,vie=23+2/18+0,sto=21+2/22+0,waw=21+2/22+0,sto2=21+2/22+0,mad=28+2/29+0,iad=77+7,sgp=305+30/182+15,gru=214+21"

[unborn pecan]

Are these related to the srcds id?

[tough locust]

it wasnt a total failure it just wasnt very good and tf2 wanted to modernize by jumping aboard the big matchmaking boom of 2013-2015

[summer steeple]

pretty good

[unborn pecan]

swag

[misty plover]

What

[spare obsidian]

that math is used to calculate srcds id

[high current]

I appreciate the offer. I want to talk with some of the people I know who run servers for competitive leagues and see what I should look for in a server machine and if they’d have an provider recommendations

[summer steeple]

0

[high current]

Also unfortunately the existence of peachhud has made some bad actors target me. Not to the extent that bot hosters have targeted people. But it’d be a bad idea for me to host a server on anyones personal machine.

Namely because the hud apparently looks “gay”. Which I take no issue with and I’ve supported people that take pride in that interpretation of the hud. But it’s wild seeing how a literal picture of a cherry blossom on a main menu can put a target on your back.

[summer steeple]

i hate the internet

[summer steeple]

just to elaborate on this, the most "coding" you'll probably end up doing in mapping is going to be map logic, and even stuff like gamemode logic has had prefabs to make it easier for years

even for things like doors, its usually as simple as taking the door, giving it a name, selecting the thing you want to trigger it, and then targetting the door and selecting "open" as its input

tbh I just downloaded most of the content packs off of tf2maps lol

everything to my knowledge in the community is free, its just up to the creator whether or not they allow you to edit the model yourself or use it as is, plus credit is often necessary (it is required if you want to get it into the game officially as valve needs to pay the model creators too)

also worth noting that some of the older community maps that got bought out by valve have their assets as part of the game, so you can use those without credit

stuff like props_swamp iirc

also if you scroll down on the main page in tf2maps you'll see this section that has all of the real big boy content packs

iirc construction and frontline are always a bit iffy in terms of crediting, not enough care was put into the credits of the assets

should be able to

like I said, just about everyone is fine with use (thats why there's downloads!) as long as its credited

tf2maps also has a license section on the downloads

like this

usually projects like these have credits for who made what model

idk how exactly to credit big projects like that tbh

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_bdddKYbvCAgjP6mGBKr0YOKukhak_Z7SviGWYqt5xg/edit

[summer steeple]

I don't think you would

most people are understanding

as long as you're not going like "nuh-uh i made this" while trying to get officially added to the game

for most purposes I think just crediting the pack its from is fine

[small siren]

*for most purposes

I think just crediting the

pack its from is fine*

- treacherousfiend

[summer steeple]

also worth noting that valve's tool to pack assets into maps comes with an option to output a text document saying all of the assets it packed in

so its relatively easy to use that to figure out what assets you used

wdym

[wild grove]

I honestly thought it was about the bot crisis but it was about server spoofs?

[left sand]

https://youtu.be/pXwgQahz2hI

[tough locust]

i legit just think he does the stretched thumbnail because he doesn't know how to fix the aspect ratio in sony vegas. I haven't watched critikal in like 5+ years but i appreciate the deciation to keeping the same video style with 0 editors

[livid oracle]

main difference is that most bot hosters want their bots to be recognised

[small siren]

*main difference is that

most bot hosters want their bots

to be recognised*

- crawl space

[livid oracle]

the most disruptive bots are the ones that arent trying to hide

ive mainly really only played tf2 back then on small community servers (which would still get full players)

so ive never really met any fake players

[high current]

Maybe it was more common in certain regions? Because i never met any fake players or had an issue with spoofed servers back then either.

[mystic turtle]

it's the opposite for me :(
US and EU servers always pretend they have 80 ping

[burnt dragon]

yippeee manchildren!! they are afraid of gay people in case someone has a different opinion or interest than them! fuck thaaat/s

[high current]

It’s funny because I know at least a couple of them are bronies. Which idgaf if you’re into MLP, but if you are you can’t be judging other people for who they are attracted to.

[next nymph]

https://bobs-burgers.fandom.com/wiki/The_Equestranauts

there's enough asshole bronies acting contrary to their favorite show that even bob's burgers made a whole episode about them

[cursive peak]

Yeah, yeah, I get it. I'm filth.

[next nymph]

no

spoilers for bob's burgers ||the group of good bronies kick out the asshole brony by the end of the episode and all is well in the equestranauts community||

you're certainly not an aggressively homophobic brony like peaches was talking about

[hidden gyro]

https://youtu.be/5t3dNpDI3rE

[radiant merlin]

xd

[spare obsidian]

https://youtu.be/zIdqb6dhcG4 please shut down tf2 fans

[burnt dragon]

I already do boycott tf2

not because I support fixtf2

I just dont have any money

[mystic turtle]

as if anyone in their right mind uses the Mann Co. Store for anything other than keys
Just avoid that place and the Steam Market; altho do beware that Valve might be more willing to shut TF2 down if the community cuts off their profits; they already can make enough from the entirety of Steam anyway

[high current]

They're not going to shut down TF2

also marketplace.tf is often cheaper than steam market, and valve doesnt get a cut

[kind falcon]

can we just shut down any tf2 discussion ☹️

[burnt dragon]

titanfall 2 was very fun

I really enjoyed the wall run/jump mechanics

truly opens up the map and gameplay

makes it really fastpaced

[spare obsidian]

please do

[orchid sorrel]

rename this channel to Team Fortress 2 Community Complaining Megathread

[potent wolf]

i think the title is already pretty accurate to the content

[hidden gyro]

Good News, we're not dying, we're going to live forever

- The TF2 Community

[crisp cedar]

nothing ever happens

[spare obsidian]

Nothing burger sounds funny

[wild grove]

this is just gonna show how insignificant the game is financially to VALVe.

The game is not gonna shut because of it, but I have a feeling people will still unbox, buy stuff from the community market.

[high current]

It’s kind of a weird time of year to boycott. If it were update season maybe. But we’re maybe going to get the summer update in 2 weeks, probably more like a month or more. That’s a long time to stay in people’s minds before they can really boycott case/key sales when the summer update drops.

[wild grove]

Not only that but the summer sale comes out before the tf2 update if I remember correct. Even if they boycotted tf2, you are still supporting valve thru steam. And I don't think tf2 players want to touch other game launchers.

[unborn pecan]

hey gys

check out this spray

hd dougie in tf2....

[wild grove]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-blinking-dog-dougthesheepadoodle-doug-the-dog-doug-dog-gif-23398072

[unborn pecan]

hi dougie

[wild grove]

the doug

[unborn pecan]

the douster

[uncut spear]

gif tho?

[unborn pecan]

no

I wanted an HD image

[uncut spear]

sad but understandable

man it would be funny if tf2 supported loopable mp4s. . .

[unborn pecan]

the exploits would be insane

and the porn as well

[uncut spear]

insert ted gif

[mystic turtle]

thanks for the clarification, and thanks for mentioning marketplace, that thing slipped my mind earlier

[orchid sorrel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480079567458140171/1249896171950837904/image.png?ex=6668f805&is=6667a685&hm=5b0de2975285baae4d193e840f307f232c3cff1d8e986fbdadfcac4a3e134e01&

just unboxed this

[mystic turtle]

the super-rare America paint
congratulations

[broken haven]

i have a min wear freedom wrapped RL with kill counter

i think it worth like 100 bux lmfao

[livid oracle]

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/6063

they really turned this into steam discussions

[wild grove]

Saying to report things to the source 1 issue tracker was a mistake.

[wild grove]

But but, peeple said boyapricot VALVe :(

[orchid sorrel]

if its worth anything I bought the keys off marketplace.tf 👼

[wild grove]

you have to boyapple Volvo

[orchid sorrel]

boyapple 😳

[wild grove]

I aint serious about it, you support VALVe from buying games on steam anyways, boycotting tf2 does jack in the grand scheme of things.

[orchid sorrel]

i mean even if every TF2 player uninstalled the game it wouldnt make a dent into a fraction of valves income

[spare obsidian]

just mention kisak to lock down the issue

[mystic turtle]

In any case, I feel like bot hosters would legitimately attempt to forestall attempts to cut back on Valve's income.
is the community refusing to buy crates? Well, they have the money to give all of their bots premium status, they must also have the money to temporarily become TF2's greatest whales

As someone who's been around former trolls: one thing you learn in the business is if they're out to completely screw things over for you they will do everything possible to annoy you. No exceptions.

[hidden gyro]

boydonut

😏

[wild grove]

cannoli

😏

[radiant merlin]

Most of the premiums accounts are likely just stolen accounts

[mystic turtle]

hm, I see

[orchid sorrel]

yea

[misty plover]

Closed

[high current]

My question is why are they reporting it as a github issue, they could legitimately go to the police if it is what they say it is. Police give more shits about that stuff than Valve does.

[wild grove]

guys, I know how we can savetf2, we need more shirt removal cosmetics, we need more half naked men!

we need to forcably take off engineer's, scout's, and pyro's shirt!

exactly

[radiant merlin]

why does it look so bad?

[misty plover]

Wtf

Did they accidentally make it use the low texture quality?

[radiant merlin]

oh i just remembered

i think there's a bug where if you redeem a war paint while using low settings the war paints remains at low quality even for other users

[unborn pecan]

Wtf?

That's fucked up

[summer steeple]

i thought it was just that when the game generates the texture (at runtime) it uses the current mipmap, so lower texture quality settings (or just lower mip because you're at a distance to them, which you almost always will be when it first generates) causes it to generate lower quality

which still is hilariously funny that the game cares about texture quality when generating the skin, because the result of a war paint generated at mip 4 and then viewed at mip 1 is different than a war pain generated at mip 1 and then viewed at mip 4

[radiant merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/guh-gif-25116077

[summer steeple]

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/4803

this shit is so funny to me

low quality build, low quality after build

[left sand]

but dont war paints use texture streaming

[summer steeple]

low quality build, and then they changed to very high afterwards

[summer steeple]

oh true good point

hmmm

oh they don't seem to ever check those flags lol

granted, old code

hm the low quality thing almost seems... semi-intentional?

[misty plover]

Hmmm

I might look into it later

Cause I'm curious too now

[summer steeple]

like if i'm reading this right when they go to generate the texture they check a few things

• is the item attached to the local player
  AND
• is the high quality texture forced (inspects do this)
  OR
• is the low quality texture forced (if i'm reading this right, it always is???)

if high quality isn't forced, and not local player (or low quality forced) it drops down by 2 mips for generation

although, it checks the textures "Actual" height and width

so it almost seems like it should go from mip 0 to mip 2

always

this is so weird that I feel like i have to be reading it wrong

good assert

honestly tho i kinda wonder about this

like intentional or no, even though the quality is worse, I wouldn't be surprised if its because of memory concerns

in fact I saw a comment about memory concerns on mac (not that its supported anymore)

there are still people who play the game on extremely low ram systems, or have iGPUs which use ram as vram

forcing 1 or more 1k textures into memory to generate a slightly better looking skin on people who have to use low texture quality for memory reasons is probably not the best idea

sure a lot of people use low texture quality because they prefer the style (or think it will run better on their system even when it won't), but thats not the reason it exists

the only issue is that supposedly on high texture quality there are some instances where it will use a lower mip to generate it and it looks horrible

I know some people complain about this when spectating

since its first person and is a lower quality

[summer steeple]

this kinda confirms that last issue

[tough locust]

thank you for explaining why they look so fugly relative to your texture quality I finally have closure now can valve please let me see skins at high res

even in your own loadout they look so pixelated, detailed skins like the dragon slayer suffer the most

it's interesting that it essentially decreases the resolution twice, the first time when it's generated and then during runtime when it goes to load the low-quality texture that it generated

[radiant merlin]

Clueless

[eternal haven]

That's still true

[heavy solar]

@eternal haven has leveled up! (12 ➜ 13)

[eternal haven]

assuming he was talking about bots as in player bots run by the server

which I'm sure he was

[burnt dragon]

actually someone should do this, it would be funny as fuck if government banned valve services until they actually control what goes in there

[wild grove]

I doubt it's cheese pizza but at the same time, it would not surprise me if a script kid bot host got too cocky.

[burnt dragon]

so they shared their own stuff?

hmmmm

thats not only disturbing

also sad and unethical

[wild grove]

sadly without someone taking one for the team, there's no way to know for sure.

[wild grove]

this could be huge, someone from a month ago commented this for this mod
https://gamebanana.com/mods/26698

"o do for everyone:

• drag and drop the content of this file (except the .exe) in your "custom" folder (located at "\SteamApps\common\Team Fortress 2\tf\custom")

• Launch the game

• Go to FIND A GAME > COMMUNITY SERVERS

• Set up you settings (change "Official server" to "Community server" or "Any server" cause there aren't any official servers right now)

• Enjoy

To do if you have an HUD:

• Remove the "community servers quickplay fix - Default HUD add-on" folder you just unziped

• Extract and open the QuickplayFixAddonsMaker.exe application

• Start the process

• Select your HUD folder ("STEAMFOLDER/Team Fortress 2/tf/custom/yourHUD" if you already installed it). If you got a .vpk file and not a folder, use GCFScape tu extract it

• Save the add-on in your custom folder ("STEAMFOLDER/Team Fortress 2/tf/custom")

• Enjoy

What it does:

Change the unused training UI opened with FIND A GAME > TRAINING by the server finder UI removed in MEET YOUR MATCH update

Created by Sot_56, member of the VallenWorld Group. Do not share without quoting (game banana page for more details)

Special thanks to : Showin; Growin; and nega_mario"

[kind falcon]

turn off texture filtering looks better wiun win

[mystic turtle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4sM2XD0mc4

yo
is this ragebait, actually legit takes, or fard?

[burnt dragon]

it's obviously ragebait lmao

[crisp cedar]

im not watching this but the thumbnail and title is literally real

the reason im not upset regarding tf2 is because i stopped playing the game when it started to bore me/i got burnt out

this is normal

marrying yourself to a game is crazyyyy

and not divorcing after years of neglect

[burnt dragon]

not really

did you ever meet an mmorpg gamer?

they LITERALLY cannot play any other mmorpg

[mystic turtle]

wait, y'know what, this is def a ragebait
this dude is literally targeting youtubers for... making content about the game...

[burnt dragon]

it is

[mystic turtle]

oh well, at least the point can hopefully somewhat gets past

[wild grove]

never mind, found out this guy just reiterated the readme. I got trolled.

[burnt dragon]

tf2 is a weirdly wacky game that not many other fps games achieved

[limpid panther]

why does the first guy have a dumptruck?

[mystic turtle]

he even got ratio'd

[burnt dragon]

its a snafu

[crisp cedar]

i never watched the video so ill assume the message is that tf2 players dont have to play only tf2 for the rest of their life

[limpid panther]

is this significant to the meme? what does the guys dumptruck mean for tf2?

[left sand]

yeah but mmos have content

[burnt dragon]

it means its not pounded enough yet which is odd since tf2 playerbase gay

[mystic turtle]

it's basically like, the community keeps brainrotting, we have been looping around the same content for ages, and fixtf2 asks too much and will most certainly fail

honestly, decent points, but good lord, keep your negativity to yourself at least

[left sand]

also afaik there isnt any cp being shared by bots

its just some person linking to another bot hosters discord or site

[burnt dragon]

we got content! 8 mentally deranged man and one mentally deranged nonbinary character

[left sand]

and mentioning like

theres cp here

in the hopes idk

bad rep or something

but yeah dont click the cp links to make sure

just report them

[burnt dragon]

awwwww, cant even get government to ban valve for hosting share platform for illegal content

[left sand]

they do remove content

all tf2 chat is removed from the server

and client

in a few mins

[burnt dragon]

they dont leave any evidence behind, smort

[burnt dragon]

tf2 isnt in a good state but at least it isnt cod3 multiplayer

where malicious people can just take over your pc and devs dont bother patching it

[crisp cedar]

tf2 is a complete game

a bit broken but overall its just

complete

[mystic turtle]

hm, I see

[burnt dragon]

yes, thats why I dont get people asking for valve to update the game

[small siren]

*yes, thats why I dont

get people asking for valve

to update the game*

- polarite

[burnt dragon]

mmm yes, last several actual updates were surely nice! I love how valve listened comp players then fucked off not fixing the stuff they debuffed down to hell

[mystic turtle]

at the most, you could have like, small balance changes or minor community fixes
But I wouldn't mind TF2 not having new weapons

in any case, that guy's video... it doesn't feel like a critique of the TF2 community as much as it is a request for the community to go scatter and fuck off, I guess

[burnt dragon]

jungle inferno was nice tho don't get me wrong, pyro flames geniunely used to suck

[mystic turtle]

at least they had decent appearance, the only good thing about pyro's flames pre-JI

[burnt dragon]

I hate current pyro flames

[wild grove]

minor community fixes are already done lol, just not the ones people want, because VALVe never publically told the guidelines of a community fix.

[burnt dragon]

I sure do love not seeing a single pixel of pyro when he shoots his flamethrower for 0.1 second

[mystic turtle]

disgusting yellow slop that's impossible to see though and barely fits the artstyle (and isn't even consistent with the appearance of burning players)

[burnt dragon]

I enjoy how both teams flames are nearly all similar

so only way to tell them apart is if a pyro is running to me or not

[mystic turtle]

wait, there are more private guidelines?

[wild grove]

no

I mean it is more likely for a community fix to get in with emailing valve than putting it on github or steam workshop.

[mystic turtle]

hm, I see

[burnt dragon]

eric plz put my fix in it, this fixes my dogshit ability to play this game by giving me a valve rocket launcher!

[wild grove]

that's what I did with the festivizer + 2014 festives wire material fix, emailed em on top of github issue.

[mystic turtle]

and as for balance changes, I'm only really thinking about minor reworks, like "bfb boost drains over time when hit" or "added new property to liberty launcher", not complete reworks like "completely change vitasaw's function"

[burnt dragon]

make beggars bazooka actually refill ammo when in hand would be nice

amazing QOL for MVM, never understood why did they decide thats a good thing

[mystic turtle]

yea, stuff like that

[next nymph]

they wanted the depiction of tf2 players to be realistic

[high current]

We’re caked up from all those rocket jumps. Them glutes gotta withstand explosively propelling yourself through the air🎂

[uncut spear]

buff the caber

[kind falcon]

buff the caber by refilling it every 30 seconds

[burnt dragon]

make valve rocket launcher a dropable item

[mystic turtle]

actually good

[burnt dragon]

from my experience demoknight is op as is

[next nymph]

buff the caber by making it instantly kill you, thus refilling on spawn

[spare obsidian]

only good video

[zealous pond]

Maybe they don't enjoy other games.

[crisp cedar]

thats impossible

its really really sad if tf2 is like the only game you can ever enjoy playing like thats really sad

theres so many unique experiences out there

some good some bad

[zealous pond]

It's a possibility.

I know I don't enjoy any currently-played PvP shooters outside of TF2.

[crisp cedar]

i think maybe the problem is that youve been playing a pvp shooter and nothing else

so many things to try in this world and you bind yourself to a single flavor

[broken haven]

25 minute video essay\

[crisp cedar]

25+ minute video essay about a videogame: pog
its not about some random game ive never played its about tf2 melee weapons: oh

never ever have there been things that have been more talked about than this game

[zealous pond]

Sure, I play other games. Mostly SP, most MP games are absolute tripe now. You can't just expect people to be open to variety though, especially now where the current gaming landscape actively cultivates adherence to live services like they're a second job.

[broken haven]

fortnite fun af

[next nymph]

whats the argument so i can judge it without watching it

[misty plover]

"perfect weapons" lol, lmao even

[high current]

Eh. Honestly I’ve tried a lot of different shooters and TF2 is still by far the most fun in my opinion. Especially with new shooter releases, they are generally just pretty bad. We’re at a point where major game studios don’t really bother making sure a game is done before releasing it because that costs money, and people are going to buy a major game studio game regardless of quality, so why bother making it high quality?

The main source of good games are smaller studios, but those tend to be single player games or maybe a co-op game every now and then. If you don’t enjoy either of those then you’re kind SOL because indie online shooters very rarely take off, because PvP inherently relies on having other players to play against, so if a game doesn’t immediately have a player base or loses said player base at any point, it’s kinda just dead.

[rare creek]

xonotic and its 1 players my beloved

[high current]

I enjoy co-op games and I’ll play some limited single player games. But I definitely have some empathy for the take that TF2 is the only game people enjoy. TBH without TF2 I probably wouldn’t bother owning a gaming PC

[zealous pond]

You don't like 5v5 hero shooters, tactical shooters, extraction shooters, BRs, or CoD? What's wrong with you? That's so much to choose from!

[high current]

I’d still own a PC, but probably something strictly practical and maybe able to give like 60 fps in the occasional co-op game I play with friends.

[rare creek]

1v1 team based hero shooter

[high current]

Bro hero shooters don’t even like hero shooters. You can’t tell me overwatch 2 isn’t actively trying to die currently.

[zealous pond]

We'll get there in a few years, don't worry.

[high current]

That game is a STINKER

[rare creek]

same with paladins

[misty plover]

The dopamine from sniping is the only thing that fuels my interest in the game, the melee weapons are all awful and feel awful to use

[zealous pond]

At least I can kill things in Paladins without grinding it out for 10 minutes.

[high current]

Release paladins was actually a solid game. Then they made a bunch of lame updates like not being able to re-mount, ttk changes, adding skins that completely disregard character recognition, etc.

[misty plover]

I literally only play the game because I get some dopamine when no one's active to talk to

[high current]

On the topic of hi-rez, anyone here ever try divine knockout? It was awesome but hi-rez did a classic hi-rez and assassinated it. They literally just stopped updating it, sold their employees (they straight up announced it in that way), and now the IP is lost in limbo.

[high current]

TF2 just has some of the meatiest shooting and most fun movement. Every other shooter game with potential for movement feels the need to add absurd air resistance to kill your momentum.
Overwatch for example has characters with air mobility, but the air drag turns everything into a pencil jump.

When Minecraft has better airstrafing than your fps game, you made a mistake.

[burnt dragon]

thats true, even valve cant achieve that with its other titles

even if I cant kill someone I still get to enjoy seeing that meaty -90 on enemy

weird enough tf2 is about microgoals about killing someone or just healing your teammates and it doesnt matter if you win or lose on long term, which means you get to enjoy as long as you play or do something

games like cs2 cant achieve this because theres a grindy style of the certain goal in the game, you will plant that bomb, you will get the most score, if you cant do that

[high current]

More games should have hit sounds with damage-based pitch. It adds such a good feed back loop for aiming well and playing to a weapon’s strength

[burnt dragon]

then it starts to get boring

[crisp cedar]

i just said that you should try playing something thats not a pvp shooter

[small siren]

*i just said that you

should try playing thats not a

pvp shooter*

- rayne

[crisp cedar]

if youre tired of eating pizza you probably shouldnt change the toppings

you should probably try eating a different food

if that makes sense

theres a lot of things to try

[broken haven]

food analogy

[crisp cedar]

if it works it works

[burnt dragon]

tf2 players are skilled in tf2 and I feel like tf2 skill doesnt really transform to other fps games, maybe why they got used to playing tf2 because of this dopamine rush beginning from low skill ceiling and cant adapt to other games now

[crisp cedar]

okay but

videogames are about having fun

[high current]

Yeh I was saying that some people just don’t like single player or co-op games. Some are fun but I couldn’t replace PvP with co-op/single player personally, I’d just like actually go outside if I stopped playing PvP games.

[burnt dragon]

this is an awful analogy, I can and will eat other foods for weeks

[crisp cedar]

like

[burnt dragon]

but I will at the end will crave pizza

[crisp cedar]

whats the point of playing videogames if youre not doing it for fun

[burnt dragon]

exactly

people enjoy pizza, but the pizza started to rot

[crisp cedar]

like you shouldnt be worrying about your skill transforming

you should be thinking about whats fun and makes you happy

[high current]

If that’s what people find fun though

[burnt dragon]

if I cant achieve my goal in an other game, thats not fun

[crisp cedar]

if your skill doesnt transfer then its a new avenue to explore

a new skill to develop

[high current]

People play aim trainers for fun. It’s probably an indication of mental illness, but they enjoy it nonetheless the less.

[crisp cedar]

everyone wishes they would relearn their favorite game

okay people who use aim trainers

arent normal

[tough locust]

whoa I'm actually super surprised that the code is still in the game, I thought it got nuked late into meet your match since the quickplay menu could no longer be brought up using commands in like August 2016

[crisp cedar]

though

[burnt dragon]

if I play lets say cs2 and some fucker keeps sniping me from the long sightline, I will say fuck it and swap to an other game, long before notice that I dont want to spend time learning a new game

[crisp cedar]

like not. at all. theyre not normal.

[tough locust]

someone quick reupload it to gamebanana pre-fixed and get 1 gorillion likes

[broken haven]

hop on kovaaks rayne

[crisp cedar]

whats that

[burnt dragon]

I get more points, Im more skilled than others, I enjoy superiority, not much to think about

[crisp cedar]

what the heeeellll

[broken haven]

aim trainer

[high current]

Kovaaks is the aim trainer people who actually aim train swear by. It’s not the best but it is the sweatiest

[crisp cedar]

thjat looks like a bad game

its like

fps osu

[high current]

But worse!

[burnt dragon]

I feel like you cant tell how others enjoy and what they enjoy

if someone enjoys tf2 but not other fps games you cant tell them to try other genres

they enjoy that game

[crisp cedar]

okay but

i have never at any point said that you cant enjoy tf2

[small siren]

*i have never at

any point said that you cant

enjoy tf2*

- rayne

[burnt dragon]

your whole point was trying other genres

[crisp cedar]

yeah

if youre tired of playing the same game

that hasnt received any meaningful changes over the years

then just try something else

tf2 isnt gonna go anywhere

youre not gonna miss out by trying anything different if youre tired of tf2

[burnt dragon]

mmmmmaybe you are right

[crisp cedar]

you open tf2, queue into the same game where you spam attacks on the same hallway while preventing the enemies from reaching your metal disc

its more complex than that sure

but why deprive yourself of joy

[broken haven]

tf2 players when you tell them you enjoy fortnite

[crisp cedar]

play something else this time and play tf2 later

itll get more fun

burnout is real

[kind falcon]

❓

[kind falcon]

❓

[crisp cedar]

and i just

cant pull myself

no way

[high current]

What’s the cause of confusion

[crisp cedar]

under your spell i cant break

i just cant stop

i just cant stoop

i just cant stoooop

[kind falcon]

tie my pb bro

https://tenor.com/view/slay-queen-gif-7746322763284042335

[crisp cedar]

every time i tihnk of aim trainers i just think about this video lol

[high current]

Pretty much. I think aim trainers have a pretty noticeable dunning Kruger effect. Where when people first start they’re like “omg my aim has gotten so much better wow”, meanwhile they have like 2 hours played on tile frenzy.

If you already have reasonably good aim, then you need pretty targeted and consistent practice in trainers to really see any improvement.

Though on the other hand, I think aim trainers are valid for working on correcting bad habits. I used to have a bad habit of death gripping my mouse when tracking, and I just worked on that for like 15 minutes in an aim trainer before I played for a bit and killed that habit, which made my hand not get tired after like 2 hours of gaming

[misty plover]

I wouldn't really say a Dunning Kruger effect (not just because that study was entirely wrong and biased.)
But just an hour with an aimtrainer is enough to correct a lot of basic issues for people since you don't have the constant stress of actual in game shooting. A lot of people have slight fundamental issues with their aim, over/undershooting flicks, bad timing, inefficient paths, which are all very correctable with very little work. They've improved a lot because they managed to correct a lot of their inconsistencies due to being able to actually focus on solving those baseline issues. Two hours of aim-training is a lot more practice than you get in two hours of matches in online games.

[tough locust]

this is how the 100 player server goes

[kind falcon]

gridshot is useless

[mystic turtle]

perhaps TF2 players just lowkey love suffering in a sea of familiarity
I've already had several moments where I want to quit the game after getting repeatedly wiped by sweats with enough experience to earn the right to be called "geezer"
and yet here I am, with 10 dollars spent on it and 1600 hours wasted in Zombie Escape or something idfk
And I still play other games

Imagine people whose only recourse has been TF2, especially when it's free and when, as Peaches mentioned earlier, it's hard to get used to other games

So I understand them... quite a lot

[wild grove]

It is broken, the comment from 1 month ago is just someone reiterating what the readme said.

[high current]

Yeh. I think there’s some validity to aim trainers. But I think in general a majority of the people that just buy kovaaks don’t really make good use of it. I think if you’re not joining an aim training community like Voltaic and benchmarking and working on your weak areas then Kovaaks isn’t worth it. You can definitely correct bad habits on your own with Kovaaks, but at least anecdotally with myself and many of my friends, several of who play T2 Valorant or got scholarships for esports teams, people are kinda bad at narrowing down their weaknesses and how it interacts with other aiming mechanics.

Not to just fanboy for Voltaic, their stuff is far from perfect, namely their weakness-specific playlists are out of date and many dont have corresponding categories in their benchmark. But it’s better than most people would do on their own. There’s also different philosophies even among coaches on aim mechanics. For example, there’s the typical sentiment that you should aim to slightly undershoot rather than overshoot (obviously aiming perfectly is the best), but that leads a lot of coaches to recommend aiming for the trailing edge of targets. Which is kinda relevant to some games, if you did it as scout in TF2 you’d hit like 60 damage meat shots instead of 104 though.

[misty plover]

I've had better experience with Revosect than Voltaic personally

Also Aimlabs is my preferred over Kovaaks, Kovaaks kinda sucks imho

I've had a lot of perf issues with Kovaaks

[high current]

Yeh Kovaaks is far from the best aim trainer in a vacuum, but the community and community scenerios tend to be the highest quality in my experience. I also got Kovaaks when it was like the only aim trainer, so yeh.

But the aim trainer I liked most if you exclude the influence of aim training community was Aim Beast. It just feels the best and I like the progress tracking implementation the best. It really feels like what the community wants Kovaaks to be, just the community hasn’t switched :(

Also I didn’t know Revosect was still around. I followed them when they were neck and neck with voltaic, but I haven’t heard about them in ages.

[livid oracle]

i think if u use an aim trainer for any reason you become a little bit less of a human being

[livid oracle]

i would post the Project 8 mp4 but i would get instantly banned by coms

[crisp cedar]

fail

go pick soldier and spam rockets down a hallway or something

[livid oracle]

youre taking advantage of the fact that i cant post it here

[crisp cedar]

like you wouldnt

[high current]

I agree. Honestly it’s just something to do while my friends try to decide what game to play. Dudes will be indecisive for like 20 minutes just to decide to download a game we’ll play for 2 hours and uninstall

Can just have a Steam download running while you click on squares

[livid oracle]

i skimmed The Rayne Conversation above and i will conclude that she just said all that because she's mad at me for epicly destroying Someone's interest in le proj8

[crisp cedar]

egomaniac assumes it's about them

[livid oracle]

im completely right

never been less wrong about something ever

[crisp cedar]

you were not even in the conversation

[livid oracle]

you were thinking about me throughout the whole ordeal despite my absence, you were imagining me as a little creature on your desk that you torture with various tools to soothe yourself

[crisp cedar]

do you get off on this idea

[livid oracle]

i simply speak the truth on this matter

[crisp cedar]

you are actually edging

[next nymph]

what does this mean

[crisp cedar]

would ask you not to seek this matter any further

[next nymph]

Project 8 may refer to:

• Tony Hawk's Project 8, a skateboarding video game released in 2006
• Northern Super League, a Canadian women's soccer league first announced as Project 8
• Project 8, a neutrino mass measurement experiment conducted by Yale University at the University of Washington in Seattle
• Project 8, a district in Quezon City, the Phillippines, composed of thr barangays Bahay Toro, Baesa, and Sangandaan
• etc.

[crisp cedar]

it can refer to a lot of things

cant say for sure

[livid oracle]

i have utterly destroted el proj8's reputation within a small community of gamers in such a simple manner through the use of the principle of "show don't tell", it is clear that rayne here is attempting a similar pwning of tf2's gameplay however through misrepresentation and deceit, the attempt is laughable due to the very obvious and very desperate oversimplification of the game's mechanics, so it can be said that i triumph over the lowly being known as rayne yet again

[crisp cedar]

why are you being such a crowbcat

[spare obsidian]

tf2 brain root

[high current]

https://tenor.com/view/relax-groot-dance-moves-gif-13450156

[misty plover]

I actually don't even understand wtf you're talking about

Did you forget your meds today

[livid oracle]

it is a dezcription of events

[orchid sorrel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/320012773587419146/1247342349256753162/ezgif.com-video-to-gif-converter.gif

[misty plover]

Goober

[kind falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/slay-queen-gif-7746322763284042335

You look so killable today.

[misty plover]

Nuh uh

[rare creek]

aimlabs is legitimately better than kovaaks

somehow kovaaks manages to look like shit AND run like shit and all of the exercises are shit and now they have a fucking subscription and dlc or whatever

[kind falcon]

aimlabs is better in these particular ways:
you can access trainers api and have the results displayed in a fancy way without running 3rd party apps

[rare creek]

while aimlabs you get basically all you could ever want for free and it's not shit

and doesnt scam you

[kind falcon]

its fruitless

even then id rather see this discussion here than anything else

[rare creek]

aimlabs would still be better even if they were both the same price

but kovaak's is just a fucking scam

[kind falcon]

quit yapping

[kind falcon]

ud buy the anime pack

[rare creek]

"core"

[rare creek]

i would genuinely never buy the anime pack

[kind falcon]

look at your pfp men

[rare creek]

or the tracking trainer because I could just fucking use aimlabs

[rare creek]

ive never even watched the anime this character is from

[next nymph]

genuinely what even is the difference with aim trainers

dont you just click circles fast or whatever

[high current]

I think the dlc is only for the weird non-“sandbox” mode. Which if you play that you’re a silly billy anyway

[rare creek]

there's better exercises in aimlabs and it runs better and iirc kovaaks forces you to pay their subscription to actually track your progress

[high current]

Community is the only thing basically. There’s also customizability and like score tracking. But the community makes spread sheets that can auto update for that anyway.

I don’t know of any subscription in kovaaks

[rare creek]

kovaak's plus

[high current]

Kovaaks has basically infinite scenarios because it has the workshop browser. Which is also my biggest gripe because you have to update workshop maps every day or every week if you set it to that. And while it’s updating the game lags like a bitch

[summer steeple]

doesnt aimlabs also have the workshop tho

[high current]

It might. It adds features at a much greater rate.

[rare creek]

aimlabs you dont even download stuff through the workshop, all of the community challenges are just in-game you dont even need to close it to use thsm

[high current]

Oh weird. But voltaic literally does that better and for free

[summer steeple]

tbh i don't like aimlabs but i've never tried kovaaks so i don't really have a place in this convo

[rare creek]

what the hell is voltaic

[high current]

I think both are overrated. But I trend toward kovaaks because of voltaic

[rare creek]

kovaaks has battleye too iirc...

[summer steeple]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/807809192537882647/1210053870563102830/IMG_3696.gif

[high current]

Basically the only reason to own an aim trainer. Aim training community that makes playlists and benchmarks for you to play, and makes playlists to train specific weaknesses that you identify through the benchmark

[summer steeple]

does aimlabs still play that dumb stinger effect when you complete an exercise

[high current]

Tbh if you don’t have to restart your pc idc about anticheat

[high current]

It has that weird pentagon that tries to tell you if you aimed fast or accurate or whatever.

Aimlabs ui just feels like everything I hate about modern games. On the other hand, Kovaaks ui feels like everything I hate about 2005 internet

I have an abusive relationship with aim trainers. I hate them but they’re really nice when I don’t hate them.

[summer steeple]

apparently I last tried aimlabs 2 years ago

which is when i left a negative review because that was after i came back from not using it for another 2 years and it felt like it somehow was worse

[high current]

Sounds like aimlabs. Last time I tried it, it was trying to cram paid gun models down your throat.

[summer steeple]

i guess it finally came out of early access last year

oh, $10 monthly subscription on aimlabs

good

did they ever re-add the rank guide ingame

it was there in 2020 and then when i tried in 2022 it was gone lmao

so you couldn't tell what rank was what

[rare creek]

aimlabs also has playlists, some official

[summer steeple]

overall my experience with aimlabs was that it was solid but the UIs were so clunky that it was hard to use

and when a big part of it is the data, not being able to easily access the data is annoying

[rare creek]

aim trainers are basically horoscopes for nerds anyways so there's no reason to trust any particular community's playlists over a different community's playlists it's all the same

[summer steeple]

true

its an aim trainer

so it stores data such as accuracy, speed, etc.

apparently this was an issue I had 2 years ago lol

[high current]

They also have voltaic playlists. But the ones in kovaaks had more effort put into them. I’ve found official playlists in any aimtrainer to be pretty mid

Idk. The best aim trainer is whatever launches fastest on your pc

[jagged pawn]

lol they're malding

[spare obsidian]

LOL

[kind falcon]

brother

quit fucking lying ur just saying shit at this point

[kind falcon]

also sorry but Unity Game Engine cannot possibly run better than unreal

[kind falcon]

https://aimlabs.com/aimlabs-plus

[summer steeple]

what compilation

the content packs?

yeah you don't necessarily need a ton of custom assets tbh

unless you're really trying to be unique, which a lot of the more modern maps are

[sour oxide]

In my experience kovaaks > aimlabs, much less bloat, way more straight to aim training.

[summer steeple]

hell

[limpid panther]

what's project 8?

[summer steeple]

this

[jagged pawn]

nooooo shut up we love our flat earther goat who made a half hour long video about the mountain lab reskins that weren't as good as the ones we got

[summer steeple]

cringe ass transphobic
#1072696252162117752 message

[jagged pawn]

this video is mostly correct but he's phrasing it all in an intentionally aggravating way so I think it's both ragebait and legit

he has a few different points all of which I agree with

• the type of person to make tf2 youtube videos in 2024 probably doesn't exactly enjoy all the game has to offer, they cover the exact same things they've been covering for the last 8 years and they're now painfully bored because they refuse to experiment at all even within the game itself. you always see them playing the same classes, the same modes, and doing the same style of content (the exceptions he cites are lazypurple and shounic which are weird examples imo)
• fixtf2 as a concept doesn't really make sense, it assumes that valve has a "fix the game" button that they're refusing to press for some unexplained reason
• he's not saying to stop playing tf2, he's saying to play other games in addition to tf2 so you can actually enjoy life instead of self torture

[wild grove]

yeah you should play other games like worms :D

[jagged pawn]

TRUE

we do love worms

[high current]

Technically the "fixtf2" button is the "post job listing" button on whatever site they would choose to post a job listing on.
They're not going to do it, but when you have a monopoly on online game sales, you could do anything you wanted...they just don't want to.

Now that I think about it, Valve almost single handedly killed gamestop and general physical game sales. Kinda crazy to think about

[zealous pond]

GameStop sells Funkos now, they're good.

[high current]

Oh right, reddit saved them with a defibrillator

[spare obsidian]

when is this nothing burger movement going to end

[tough locust]

just came back to confirm that this sadly doesn't work, OpenQuickplayDialog got nuked back in 2016. Seems like he just randomly copy-pasted the install instructions into the comments, he has like 2 other comments on gamebanana that don't make much sense

[left sand]

https://youtu.be/FjbI0UXTGrg

[soft lynx]

not sure what to focus on. the morbius themed HUD, the bitchslap airblast or the fact that the comments are filled with some really questionable comments

[high current]

did someone say "hud" 👀

eh, that's pretty tame. I helped a friend with a kanye west themed hud recently. That was more unhinged.
Then there are spy main huds...

[rare creek]

sorry but as an ai language model

[wild grove]

No shit! It's a dinosaur they don't want to deal with!

[paper sluice]

please show

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1150663885637038101.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=hiyagangy

[paper sluice]

ultrakill airblas 🤤

[uncut spear]

one of the best mods unironically

smthn about it makes you better at air blasting I swear

[paper sluice]

cuz you dont have that shitty airblast particle fuckin up your vision
and better visual feedback me thinks

[uncut spear]

also it just looks cooler

[paper sluice]

https://tenor.com/view/true-morgan-freeman-there's-so-much-true-gif-14798434848478159977

[mystic turtle]

I'm a bored guy, to be frank
It's only one view, most he'll get is an insignificant amount of money

[slender nexus]

oh god the sniper rifle bit

💀

[mystic turtle]

and thanks for the analysis, that really helped

[summer steeple]

never heard of them

interesting

[rare creek]

this cosplay is amazing

[summer steeple]

honestly that 4chan post and the video are neat, but it basically just confirms what we already know (or at least assumed)

the biggest issue is simply that valve doesn't have the manpower for this, and tf2 is far down the priority list

[rare creek]

we need more and more people outside their building....

[summer steeple]

that won't help

valve understands the severity, at least for the most part, of the bot issue

[rare creek]

we nee

d

[summer steeple]

and its not like valve is against hiring people, its just that they clearly want to keep tf2 inhouse and they just don't have the manpower

they're always hiring you know

they just... have ridiculously high standards

[rare creek]

hire me ill join and ban every bot singlehandeld

[spare obsidian]

after like, 5 or 7 leaks lol

[wild grove]

It saddens me the community spent time on this and not on supporting community servers. Filling them up. Making a decent community matchmaker thru the web. But nope, please hit the ban bots button valve you have in secret!

[mystic turtle]

This fr

https://youtu.be/-tNu6El3bW0
hm, the power of sv_alltalk

someone tricked a spy into thinking they ate their sandwich

and he still managed to get the jump on the spy with the natascha of all miniguns

[grim parcel]

this is bigger brain than most comp clips i’ve seen

[orchid sorrel]

theyve been selling funkos

when i worked there back in 2017 they were telling us to push funko pop preorders

[jagged pawn]

yeah this is absolutely the problem for me. there's so many creators involved in this, and none of them are even attempting to direct this energy towards anything positive and tangible. they just want to be mad

the only tf2ber that even attempts to help is uncle dane (I understand that not everyone loves uncletopia but it is a serious attempt at improving the state of the game and I respect the effort involved)

[zealous pond]

I never got the appeal of those things.

[livid oracle]

back then a lot of tf2 youtubers actually did thatd

[jagged pawn]

oh every tf2ber has exactly one, I don't really think that counts

[livid oracle]

i mean it's out of spite but still

[jagged pawn]

they just do that because they want a place to play under their preferred rules

[livid oracle]

thats fine imo

i mean thats what dane made uncletopia for

[jagged pawn]

I don't think it's a bad thing I just don't think it's the same thing

because one server doesn't have a very tangible impact imo

it makes a difference for max 24 people

I guess 100 in shounic's case lol

[livid oracle]

well if like 10 youtubers do it

[jagged pawn]

fair

[livid oracle]

then thats like 240 people

[rare creek]

erm... please read evesry single message in the channel before reposting

whty are you downvoting me what are you expecting people to not read 68457 messages before posting????

literally1984

[high current]

Interesting. I wonder if this person plans on being persistent with their protest.

[rare creek]

why do i see a different thumbnail for this video on my rog ally than on my pc

[high current]

Also it's a pretty good cosplay

[high current]

I think it just changed at some point and which ever device saw it first just kept the thumbnail loaded and the other one loaded it after the thumbnail changed.

[rare creek]

youtubers who change thumbnails are annoying

[high current]

Eh, sometimes you forget to make one or something like that. Though I think at that point just upload it as unlisted, make your thumbnail while HD processes, then upload the thumbnail and make the video public

[grim parcel]

waiting on the tf2 community to january 6th valve hq
https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1ddkax7/peaceful_protest_outside_valve_hq/

[high current]

You know a protest I could get behind? If a bunch of people went there and made sandviches and just left them outside their HQ

I think it’d be so goofy it’d be hard to get genuinely mad at. Someone high up would, but the employees would just be chuckling

[rare creek]

january 6th?

[radiant merlin]

not an american huh?

[rare creek]

i am an american im just exceptionally dumb, forgetful, and ignorant

so the average american\

[radiant merlin]

capitol riot

[rare creek]

ohhhh

[slender nexus]

☠️

[wild grove]

Is there a active community server where you can play on release candidate custom maps (maps that have legit chance to be added to the game?)

[rare creek]

tf2maps

[rare creek]

?

[grim parcel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack

[rare creek]

yes i know now.... Should have read the past 68000 messagex

[mystic turtle]

you mean "consign yourself to the hellscape that is #competitive-digging-archived "?

[wild grove]

DIGITAL SPORTS

[jagged pawn]

I mean they don't always run release candidates but I do like them

[misty plover]

I've seen like 5 different thumbnails for this video now wtf

[sour oxide]

YouTubers can now upload a lot of thumbs and the algo shows the most trending one...

[high current]

Must be for partners only. I haven’t had that option😢

[rare creek]

why

maybe it's about time i buy dearrow

[burnt dragon]

https://addons.mozilla.org/tr/firefox/addon/dearrow/

is this even paid?

I didnt know

[misty plover]

I don't know if it is but I don't like dearrow just because some of the changes people submit are so fucking pedantic or just outright spoil the videos ending

[kind falcon]

thats kinda the point no

dont install dearrow if u want clickbaiuts

[misty plover]

I mean my issue is they "de-clickbait" stuff that isn't even offensive clickbait

Imagine being so miserable in life you need to correct this in the most pedantic way

Like get a life, genuinely

[next nymph]

whats the difference

[misty plover]

The bottom one is "corrected" by de-arrow contributors

There was no reason to do this

[next nymph]

what did they even do they look the same to me

[misty plover]

The title

You run into the same "NO FUN ALLOWED" where some dipshit marks any joke as filler

[rare creek]

it is

[misty plover]

On Sponsorblock

[next nymph]

oh i thought the thumbnail was supposed to change

[rare creek]

dearrow can contribute thumbnails

[misty plover]

I consider this the same as people who use AI to make "more accurate translations" for games and such

[burnt dragon]

also on other dogshit news

a cheat client is back

that I cant name here

and its free

[next nymph]

yeah the title was already implied to be a list of some opinions and not an exhaustive list of objective facts, really didnt need to change it

[misty plover]

That could be literally anything.

[next nymph]

and make it absolutely dogshit unreadable in the process

[rare creek]

sometimes something like dearrow could be useful

[burnt dragon]

no its the actual creator

[potent wolf]

fiendhook is back!

[burnt dragon]

with a discord server and people

I had to be sure

[potent wolf]

(not)

[burnt dragon]

not that one

[rare creek]

because i have absolutely 0 fucking idea what the title and thumbnail of this video means

and i havent watched the video

the title and thumbnail doesnt really make a whole lot of sense

[misty plover]

It's an interview with the same kid with cancer with the special golden pan that like 40 people have made videos on

[rare creek]

oh

so

it's nothing to do

[burnt dragon]

australium can technically cure cancer

[rare creek]

with tf2's current state

[misty plover]

Literally nothing

[burnt dragon]

wish it was real

sad

[soft lynx]

nope, but that didn't stop people from shitting on it for whatever reason lol

[rare creek]

so it's mega clickbait

[soft lynx]

no, it's just a nice little chat/interview

but due to unfortunate timing, people somehow had the impression it had anything to do with the current fixtf2 movement

[rare creek]

still clickbait because from the title and thumbnail it sounds likt it has something to do with valve actually caring about tf2

or... doesn't??

i dont know the title makes no sense

[misty plover]

The only relation to TF2 is the child was a fan of tf2

[soft lynx]

the "if it's not tf2" part of the tiel has been retroactively added, since people thought it was somehow connected to talking down the fixtf2 movement

[misty plover]

Also in their reddit post they forced a valve lan party to play wutville

[rare creek]

valve forgot tf2 exists

[summer steeple]

gabe newell has dementia

[misty plover]

They also mentioned that the employees had a Valve Sniper Rifle and Valve Eyelander

But none of them did anything special

Just special name with broken unusual particle effects

[rare creek]

valve employees think thaet tf2 is actually just some random game that showed up one day and that they didnt make

ok but honestly how does CS2 have bots now???

is valve really this fucking lazy

graaaah the only thing valve is good at is steam

[misty plover]

Oh they also got an unusual gibus apparently

[summer steeple]

because 90% of online games have bots

probably more

[rare creek]

no other online games ive played other than valve games and runescape have bots.....

[summer steeple]

huh I didn't know there was a "customer support granted you" item drop message

[rare creek]

i believe that's how the cheaters lement is given to you

[misty plover]

I've seen it a few times, they usually only do it if your items are stolen

[misty plover]

Most games I've played have them

[rare creek]

have you only played valve games

[summer steeple]

yeah I knew that customer support could do items (i don't think they really do it anymore) i just didn't know there was a dedicated message to them

[misty plover]

Basically every game has them, they're just less obvious because the barrier of entry for cheating is lower in some games compared to others

[summer steeple]

when i played dirty bomb a bit before they shut it down it had bots

[small siren]

*when i played dirty

bomb a bit before they shut

it down it had bots*

- treacherousfiend

[misty plover]

As the obvious example, Valorant has an insanely high barrier to entry, but the cheats that do get through are insane

The average player never encounters them from the sheer difference in how many there are, but it doesn't mean there's none

[rare creek]

ive only ever seen aimbot

do they have speed hacks or something

[misty plover]

Speedhacks are pretty well impossible to get away with even in games with the worst anticheats

[next nymph]

speedhacks are one of those things that the server can relatively easily prevent from being possible at all, just by having player movement be server authoritative. Stuff like aimbots can't easily be because aimbots are still doing everything technically valid, just at a level far above any human player

[burnt dragon]

the rates of bot+cheater/player ratio is geniunely awful in valve games

valve should drop making multiplayer games and develop portal 3 already

[burnt dragon]

stopping bots in runescape is literally not possible lmao

they can try to catch RWTers at best

or bots that like roll flax 23 hours a day the second they create accounts with 900 other copies at lumby castle

[crisp cedar]

i like dearrow

[kind falcon]

thats what bots are for no?

[crisp cedar]

but i dont like the thumbnail stuff

i just have it be about titles and thats it

[burnt dragon]

yes but sometimes transactions are small enough to miss sadly

also even legit players bot

not everyone wants to mine MLM for 9 hours daily until they 99 mining

[rare creek]

rainbow six siege has speedhacks you can enabled with cheat engine

[burnt dragon]

banned in 30 seconds

[crisp cedar]

fun fact league of legends CRASHES if you try using cheat engine

[next nymph]

thats the point of big bot farms but its hard to deal with RWT until they actually RWT, until then they're potentially dedicated legit players

[burnt dragon]

theres actual players that just create accounts to speedrun so you cant even decide instantly

[next nymph]

skill issue ||i hate mining so i dont train it||

[rare creek]

https://youtu.be/WnfmzgjpCXo?t=408

[misty plover]

*unless you run a slightly modified cheat engine with a different signature

[burnt dragon]

they join and mine iron ores tick manip for weeks under Adderall effect

or just killing lumby goblins until 99 defence for chunk completion

osrs players are deranged

they scare me.

[rare creek]

tf2 also had speed hacks at some point

[misty plover]

Fwiw that was in singleplayer mode

[kind falcon]

n u know

forced crits every shot

[rare creek]

actually tf2 still has speed hacks they're just nerfed

and very rare

[kind falcon]

❓

[summer steeple]

rocket jumping

[kind falcon]

crouching "speedhack" doesnt count

[rare creek]

it does tho

[kind falcon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqlL4XuP3S8

the only speedhack that counts

[rare creek]

crouching speed hacks count

because they should be even easier to detect than regular speedhacks

[kind falcon]

and they are

[rare creek]

because they are accomplished by hacking your camera's roll value the server could literally just check the camera roll value and ban u for it

but valve doesnt because

lazy

[kind falcon]

men

it has nothing to do with roll

same could be said for taunt control

thats not roll

u dont even gain additional speed from crouching they fixed that years ago

[rare creek]

i have no idea how any of these nerdy ass words mean but you can read it if you want

[kind falcon]

its just math fuckery thats the problem

[rare creek]

it is camera roll

valve could ban it but they dont because they're just a bunch of incompetent idiots when it comes to anticheat

[kind falcon]

mb

angView.z = 90.0f;

🧌

[rare creek]

im going to delete this so mods dont kill me

[kind falcon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/807809192537882647/1153060882390208552/image0-17-1-1.gif

this is you

[rare creek]

am i being boiled alive by server stafd

[kind falcon]

im not server staff am i supposed to know

[rare creek]

just wondering if that is what your image is supposed to convey

[small siren]

*just wondering if

that is what your image is

supposed to convey*

- totallynotniteruxiswear

[summer steeple]

mac officially dead
#dev-log📻 message

[burnt dragon]

oh wow they started removing features

[summer steeple]

mac had been technically dead for years

[burnt dragon]

shhhhh

fixtf2 in the worksssss

[summer steeple]

but now that they've moved on to x64 its completely dead

partially because joshie doesn't want to touch mac building

[burnt dragon]

isnt mac extremely finnicky

and irritating

[summer steeple]

idk probably

[burnt dragon]

last time I heard about it people were talking about its own rendering network

that replaces opengl

[rare creek]

Metal

[cursive peak]

https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/s/7E3dpYmjZl

[formal dew]

so they can add better mac support in the future right

right

[summer steeple]

also why does anyone think this has anything to do with fixtf2 lol

like "OMG GUYS VALVE RESPONDED THEY DID A THING"

valve does shit all the time lol

[formal dew]

because people interpret every decision valve makes from the perspective of them abandoning tf2

[summer steeple]

GUYS VALVE LISTENED TO US THEY REMOVED MAC SUPPORT FROM THE LIST

pranked it was actually HL2 ep 1

they literally pushed this for all of their older games it looks like

probably because they don't consider "doesn't run on current macs" as mac support

[burnt dragon]

I was joking lmao

tf2 players look at sky! it says gullible!
WHERE!!!

[left sand]

no more soy mac bots

[cursive peak]

It would be amusing if this did kill the bots.

[eternal haven]

Wasn't there already no mac version since the 64 bit update

This just changes the icon on the steam store page

I don't think it actually does anything

[spare obsidian]

it removes the mac depot

[eternal haven]

That's not true

[left sand]

someone should make a wojak of an applecel crying at the icon change

and theres like wholesome chungus or harambe or something staring back at all the old wholesome peak kino nostalgia bait valve games

[eternal haven]

What does an applecel look like?

Soyjak?

[wild grove]

omg guys tf2 fixed?!

[orchid sorrel]

hmm i know these words

[left sand]

im being ironic i swear

[next nymph]

im being iconic i swear

[rare creek]

https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1dec7gc/i_created_a_casualquickplay_replacement_program/

it's joever for mastercomputer

[broken haven]

mastercomputer

[unborn pecan]

You got brainrot...

[summer willow]

i was literally asking me today why still depend on casual servers (i know its cool and all and better for new players) but like just create something that is more easy to navigate instead of waiting valve to do something

even cs players did this

[unborn pecan]

https://fixupx.com/danekevincook/status/1801027100951945697

Uncle Dane is such a soy boy

[spare obsidian]

someone ratio dane

[orchid sorrel]

buzz lightyear gif I created a casual alternative

[misty plover]

This sentence is unreadable can you please describe it to me as if I was a victorian child with lung cancer from working in the mines

[potent wolf]

funny debug symbols

so yes, actually

[wild grove]

I should ask them if it would be possible to develop a web version.

[grim parcel]

we got this chat

[potent wolf]

whars even funnier is that valve is aware of it, they fixed this in csgo years ago

[eternal haven]

I think it must have been intentional

[grim parcel]

applecels in tears

[eternal haven]

They intentionally include symbols in srcds don't they?

[jagged pawn]

was this still relevant today or was it just a thing that happened once in the past

[potent wolf]

yes

but its not intentional on macos

the scripts are just broken

[left sand]

the build scripts cant be helped

[grim parcel]

she tweeted it 30 minutes ago so yeah probably still relevant

[eternal haven]

Honestly it's kind of impressive they maintained their old ass macos build setup for as long as they did

[grim parcel]

idk though

[jagged pawn]

well yeah I know the tweet is new lol I just mean I can't parse her phrasing. posted is past tense but idk if that's like, 3 hours ago or 10 years ago

in other words I'm trying to figure out if this was a regular thing that helped bot makers

[left sand]

i gotta cover all my basees next time

[jagged pawn]

you're fine

[potent wolf]

it was, symbols for tf2 were shipped until 64bit

[grim parcel]

yes replay uses it for fiendhook

[jagged pawn]

ah ok

[left sand]

this but unironically, and unjokedly, and actually very seriously, macOS posted, posts, and will post debug symbols to users, so cheat devs had, and are having, and will have an easier time reversed engineered, engineering and will engineer the game (Team Fortress 2)

[potent wolf]

need a screenshot of a UC user named macOS

[jagged pawn]

but is it reversing / will reverse

[potent wolf]

backwardsing

[jagged pawn]

lmao

[unborn pecan]

I will like this so hard

[left sand]

we need bots

[misty plover]

Simply become the bot

[unborn pecan]

bro

😭

I don't eeven know what this means

in this context

Speaking of apple

https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2024/10089/

They have an in-depth v ideo

well "in-depth"

About their new Game Porting Toolkit 2

It's interesting

[eternal haven]

Isn't that just wine

[jagged pawn]

is there a community on the internet that has a lower average intelligence than tf2 https://x.com/jimmylongnoseYT/status/1801039495199887649

Jimmylongnose (@jimmylongnoseYT) on X

@richterovertime let me cook 🔥

Twitter · Jun 12, 2024, 11:50 PM

[wild grove]

"their only response" bro...

omg they fixing tf2?! VALVe just removing mac support for every one of their games because they aren't maintaining those versions anymore.

[eternal haven]

Unrelated but I hope they never replace tf2 with a source 2 version

Or at least that they keep the current version available if they do

I like tf2 as it is

[unborn pecan]

I think it's that and the fact the mac binaries weren't stripped, so they retained a lot of information of how the game works giving cheat makers a guide basically

[unborn pecan]

Never gonna happen

[spare obsidian]

god i hate this people

what' little buddy thinks its CSI 😭

[mystic turtle]

Ah, yes.

Mega Scatterbomb: Ace Attorney. Where we have to somehow put Valve on the spot.

In all seriousness, though, just let them do it. If anything, it's to Valve's discredit, altho we already know that the bot hosters are just gonna drag their asses off to russia and continue their idiocy there.

without any fear of retaliation

[left sand]

i hope they retroactively patch all old versions of tf2 to blow up your computer if launched

[mystic turtle]

Perhaps the "update" for any old version is literally just a zipbomb containing a single image of Heavy

I remember spotting this image on Tumblr a while back, where someone cracked a cheap joke about "heavyposting" by literally just. making a 49 TB image of the Russian pootis man

so perhaps that could be their update
hard to run a VM when all of them are filling up with Heavy

[unborn pecan]

VNN stocks in shambles

[summer steeple]

it took me like 30 seconds to see the removal of the mac support tag to decide to check other valve games and see if there were other like storefront updates

no one else put in that effort to see that this is a shared update among like all of their source 1 games lol

and also i guess everyone forgot (or never realized) that mac support in tf2 has been basically dead for years

because mac doesn't support 32bit programs anymore

its literally false advertising to say that these games support mac at this point

[misty plover]

You know, you'd think an australian would be pretty good at critical thinking considering their entire country is out to kill them, but here we are

[summer steeple]

but its also false advertising to say that tf2 runs on x32 windows XP with 15GB of storage space on a system with 512MB ram and a 1GHz processor so

[wild grove]

I can't wait for the lawyers to laugh at their face.

"Hey would you accept a case about a 15 year old game being neglected in one aspect?"

https://tenor.com/view/shrek-donkey-awkward-true-love-lol-gif-13706344

[unborn pecan]

[wild grove]

I mean you could play the game at those specs, it just wouldn't look good

[misty plover]

Fwiw I know people who essentially play at the settings you'd use for those specs minus storage space because even baseline tf2 is well over 15GB now iirc

[mystic turtle]

I personally think this is moreso about the harassment and such
but if it's about the bots themselves, er... that's beyond stupid tbh

[misty plover]

Though idk if tf2 can even work under 512mb now

The game would launch and be in menu but you're definitely not getting in game

[wild grove]

then at that case wouldn't it be better to try to warrant arrest of the script kid bot hosts that are doing criminal behavior and not suing?

[misty plover]

Its not criminal in most of the world

It doesn't constitute identity theft

You can probably get away with slander if your country is backwater enough to allow suing for slander, but that doesn't really work in most the world either since most bot hosters are in america

[wild grove]

Then it's a waste of time then like the rest of the movement? :)

[misty plover]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Not my place to say

I lost interest in even supporting the movement since MSB is their big pusher and he immediately had people harass kisak on the valve repo

[wild grove]

It's harsh but from what I am seeing, this is doing nothing but attention seek, like the first time.

[misty plover]

I would support if they had a clear vision of what they want corrected and how they want Valve to go about it but

"Omg game dead!!!! Bots everywhere!!!" isn't really a vision that's operable on

I mean I have some suggestions of my own for tweaks Valve can make to make bots suffer more and make the barrier of entry and subtlety required higher, but a lot of those changes can put legitimate players at risk too

[potent wolf]

Valve should just

[misty plover]

IE: Putting players that are frequently kicked shortly after joining could make it so you could shove them into an "untrusted lobby" but that also causes issues because tf2bd users having a ton of people who do instakicks on join, while even on the trusted list there's a fair few legitimate players that were added because the trusted members were salty at getting outskilled (removed name so he doesn't get harassed actually)

[wild grove]

this and seeing it was the same goal again.

[misty plover]

There's a lot of suggestions you can make like this but basically all will have some form of downside

[eternal haven]

Does vac detect cathook?

Because I would start with that if it doesn't

I don't think any of the bot hosters are actually cheaters, if there's not a ready made solution they can download I think it will drastically impact them

[wild grove]

Idk if tf2's VAC detects recent stuff, I assume not.

[unborn pecan]

fardhook

[misty plover]

It used to, there's been several ban waves for it

Though idk how recent it goes

[drowsy marlin]

Don't change your name to catbot. You'll get banned

[misty plover]

Actually?

[drowsy marlin]

Yeah

[wild grove]

If I remember, in 2016 there was a vac ban wave for em, they were used to be called catbots back then before the names and everything.

[misty plover]

I thought they removed that already

[misty plover]

Another idea I've seen is making it so limited accounts are unable to play, requiring the $5 min purchase for new accounts like how you need to trade or use scm. Not sure how it'd work out though, I don't actually know how many TF2 players are using limited accounts.

I don't think it'd be good though

[burnt dragon]

scm?

sternocleidomastoid muscle?

[burnt dragon]

rerelease game as hd and make it pay2 play

[fleet kite]

Damn, Valve snipers got him quick

[misty plover]

They got sniped by fixtf2 because they were about to type #killtf2

[left sand]

yes but bot hosters keep writing circumventions

[left sand]

that's untrue, that claim was made by bot hosters to reduce trust in VAC. there's several trust factors which contribute to a VAC ban in that case

i dont know how much of this i should share on public forums because all it will do is give bot hosters attention and help them know what is working and not working

but the general tf2 community has a very limited understanding of the threat landscape of bots in TF2

[burnt dragon]

I always think that since spin bots are so obvious tf2 players struggle detecting any other bot or cheat

[left sand]

all i will say is that one main goal of cheaters is to troll people and get attention, and bots have proven to be quite the viable product to market to that audience

[mystic turtle]

if anything, they're the ones who are really winning this, in all honesty
they've managed to put Valve and the community in a very clear checkmate
It's all free real estate for them

[burnt dragon]

I see so many cheaters in tf2 thats playing heavy, spy or even slow paced classes like engineer its painful no one understands how they work

[left sand]

so you are severely underestimating the threat model if you think this is even going to make a dent

(not to really be combative here, just making an example of this sentiment, because everyone just knows one name and just spreads it around and thinks oh its so easy to go after)

[misty plover]

Kisak said it's true on the source 1 games repo actually

[left sand]

kissk doesn't comment on anti cheat

[misty plover]

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/2475#issuecomment-354618175

[left sand]

nope

that's not what you think it means

[mystic turtle]

hopefully more people can spread awareness of cheats and their internal workings like what Vorobey did
Poor example, I know, but despite his assholeyness he does show his audience how the cheaters are spotted

[left sand]

that entire issue is crawling with cheaters

[misty plover]

True

[left sand]

it is intended that they are crying about getting banned

[misty plover]

Ahh

[summer steeple]

for refrence, the reddit post kisak posted lol

[left sand]

did you read the reddit post

[misty plover]

Hadn't, no, just have a memory of reading Kisak's comments a few years ago

[left sand]

it was obvious from the very start that the issue was a threat

[small siren]

*it was obvious

from the very start that the

issue was a threat*

- mcoms

[left sand]

cheaters have no capability to create a legitimate issue report

they cannot produce enough credibility on their account for this to be the case

[misty plover]

I didn't ready the other comments fwiw lol

I should have thought, Bencat commenting on it means it's more bs from cathook users

[left sand]

its only one click away to see their account, and id recommend doing this often whenever an issue report talks about anything to do with security or cheating or anything else

no cheater will ever able to build up a trustable reputation on their account

unless youre jiatan

but

you know

[misty plover]

Oh my god they didn't even mention launching TF2, how did I miss that

[livid oracle]

idk why people cant understand this

any information you get from cheaters can be discarded immediately

if you do like

cheater interviews or whatever, you're part of the problem

if you make like

[left sand]

i love how the main videos from fixtf2 are like

[livid oracle]

an "anti-cheating group" or some shit, you're part of the problem

[left sand]

testimony of MSB's interviews with cheaters

where its filled with completely wrong info

[left sand]

also though i meant something else when i said this specific message

[small siren]

*also though i meant

something else when i said this

specific message*

- mcoms

[left sand]

im talking about the supply side

like, cheaters getting stuff from cheat devs

they love getting bot products

[misty plover]

Yeah cheat devs love to come up with excuses to avoid people chargebacking them because their cheat got them banned

[kind falcon]

azurewoof regularly reports stuff

🙂

[left sand]

i mean in terms of

reporting security information

[kind falcon]

rite rite..

[misty plover]

"This isn't a real ban wave you just got manually banned"
"We bypassed the anticheat, you must have used other things"
"Actually the game bans you if you look too fast, that's not our fault"

[left sand]

just bypass vac tf

[kind falcon]

shorely daniels vac bypass gets detected anytime soon...

[left sand]

im thinking

though i think they gave up on steamservice.exe and now its cs2.exe...

for the most part

but eh, i dont doubt theyll still update it

[kind falcon]

evenshually

[left sand]

vac is coming