Team Fortress 2 Megathread - winter is the most chill time of year

[grim parcel]

i think it's that

and just

llvm

lol

[unborn pecan]

How do I improve rust link times grtchipoo

[grim parcel]

use thin lto

with lld

[potent wolf]

or don't use lto at all

[grim parcel]

true!

[unborn pecan]

Lto is hot

And swag

[grim parcel]

i said gentoo because most of the time you won't be compiling at all on normal distros

just random small projects where they all compile quick anyways

[potent wolf]

C++ headers are the worst thing ever and they should be destroyed (usable modules are still 4 billion years away)

[wild grove]

Since I wasn't here during the 64 bit update launch, how big is the performance improvement? I use geforce now so I can't tell.

[grim parcel]

blazingly fast

(this is totally a real world example)

[wild grove]

I have noticed mvm is less stuttery tho.

[next nymph]

the trick is to just put every file inside an all.h file so you can include that

[unborn pecan]

hi getchoo

[kind falcon]

uhhh like 6

[unborn pecan]

hey getchoo

does rust use the system default linker?

😭

https://benw.is/posts/how-i-improved-my-rust-compile-times-by-seventy-five-percent

Bro

This article uses an AI image

😭

Jot Completeotion

[potent wolf]

they switched to using lld on linux on rust nightly recently

https://blog.rust-lang.org/2024/05/17/enabling-rust-lld-on-linux.html

[unborn pecan]

keep the embed reply

Embeds r fun bro

https://blog.rust-lang.org/2024/05/17/enabling-rust-lld-on-linux.html

[potent wolf]

repost

[unborn pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/doug-sheepadoodle-dog-stare-gif-7656382028244357083

[potent wolf]

I love having to do shit like this

#include "util/loaded_module.hpp"
// (Must be AFTER loaded_module)
#include <link.h>

[unborn pecan]

is gnu gold still updated?

or what

[next nymph]

really? I'm not a huge fan of having to do that kind of stuff, personally

[grim parcel]

FIANLKY HUGEEEE

[potent wolf]

FIANKLY

?

[grim parcel]

finally

we love rust-lld

[unborn pecan]

is gnu ld even still worked on

[grim parcel]

probably

[unborn pecan]

gnu-getchoo

[kind falcon]

so erm... why would anyone use stable

[potent wolf]

i'd still be using stable if a really useful feature wasn't stuck in nightly

[grim parcel]

i always use stable

it's just easier

and other people can compile my projects without getting annoyed

[potent wolf]

error: generic parameters may not be used in const operations :D

[grim parcel]

can't static variables use generics?

or am i misremembering

[potent wolf]

code in question is let mut bytes = [0u8; std::mem::size_of::<S>()];

[grim parcel]

LOL

[potent wolf]

yeah yeah i know could work around this by making it a Vec

but that's dumb

[kind falcon]

exactly this keeps annoying me when im trying to work with rust software

noone cares

[grim parcel]

i love how every nightly user i've met always has their own oddly specific thing they're using it for

it's never the same

[potent wolf]

it's literally the only feature i use it for too

[grim parcel]

[potent wolf]

oh yeah and it's still really stupid on nightly

you have to do this in the function def:

fn blah<S>() where
    [u8; std::mem::size_of::<S>()]:, // wtf
{ ... }

[kind falcon]

imlove posting in random channels 🙂

[potent wolf]

👍

[misty plover]

This syntax sucks

Actually

[potent wolf]

it's soooo dumb

[misty plover]

I should kill whoever's idea that was

[next nymph]

we've strayed so far from perfection (lisp)

[misty plover]

They will not find your body

[kind falcon]

@misty plover do you own a fursuit

[misty plover]

No

[kind falcon]

why not

[slender nexus]

expensive 😭

I should rob a bank so I can buy a fursuit

[kind falcon]

ure out of the scope of this question

please refrain from joining any conversation in this discord server

also internally known as guild

[cursive peak]

You don't rob a bank. You forge the signature of your enemy in order to mortgage their house. Then it's not your problem when you don't pay it out and they get evicted.

[wild grove]

looking at the fix tf2 website, I like that there is clear goal this time compared to the 1st time they did this campaign but again, the goal is super vague, and the % of bots is based off some youtuber's video.

[kind falcon]

what fixtf2 website

[wild grove]

https://fixtf2.tf/

[misty plover]

I don't want one?

[potent wolf]

there are 2 of these things?

save.tf and this

[wild grove]

yes

[potent wolf]

this will go so well

[kind falcon]

you become a better developer if u visit furrycons on the side

[misty plover]

I'm already one of the best developers in the world cry about it

[kind falcon]

proof?

[wild grove]

it's so fucking stupid, yes let's reiterate what the company already KNOWS!

[misty plover]

#eattf2

[kind falcon]

kill

[floral sandal]

If this ends in Valve shutting down official servers as a solution that would be very funny

[misty plover]

#marrytf2

#killtf2

[wild grove]

good ending

[misty plover]

Deer Eric Smith please delete the docker containers for casual thank you

Sincerely
The Zombies

[kind falcon]

deer

[misty plover]

Yes

[kind falcon]

oh my got

zonbie

[misty plover]

Eric Smith has a deersona

[potent wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/white-tail-deer-therian-white-tail-deer-therian-gif-24614263

[kind falcon]

and what sona do you have

akita

[misty plover]

None

[kind falcon]

nvalid_type_param_default

[wild grove]

come back when you guys have a proposal to fix the issue, and that proposal not involve making the player experience more ass.

[kind falcon]

fixtf2 leads to save.tf to sign the petition

the website is a hobby project

case closed. behead the people behind it

[potent wolf]

why have a page that just leads to save.tf

oh hey the github leads to a 404 page

[kind falcon]

because i love nullptr so much and their work on aerochat

the segmented display at the top of the page broke my brain

someone tell them thats not how they work

[crisp cedar]

#feedtf2

[kind falcon]

This is a smart reference to a term known as "feeding" in MOBA's.

[wild grove]

but then i'd be called a fucking ""doomer"" for being realistic.

[misty plover]

#seedtf2

[kind falcon]

a a ron 🤣

[summer steeple]

clear goal this time, but goal is super vague 🤔

[potent wolf]

i am dumb as bricks

[kind falcon]

"teamworkPlayers":11186,"steamPlayers":88562,"estimatedBots":72947

this individual might be intellectually blessed...

[misty plover]

This site is pretty poorly optimized lol

[kind falcon]

svelte

point and laugh

[slender nexus]

😭

[jagged pawn]

is this a joke? there's nothing remotely close to a clear goal

it's laughably bad

[livid oracle]

fact checked this and it appears to be correct

[wild grove]

I reread it and realized I said it was clear than later said it was not.

[jagged pawn]

every attempt to piggyback off of the original savetf2 has ranged from insulting to comical

none of them have had any chance of working, because none of them even pretend to have a plan

"a lot of people will sign this petition and then we'll sell their names and email addresses to a data broker" is not going to convince valve of anything

[wild grove]

No shit, most of the community is children both physically and mentally.

[kind falcon]

skibidi heavy

[broken haven]

harass devs to update tf2

can this get pinned

[slender nexus]

im waiting for someone to inevitably send a terroristic threat at valve and inadvertently destroys the fixtf2 movement with it

[broken haven]

tf2 WHAT

[unborn pecan]

erm @ moderators

[kind falcon]

problem?

[slender nexus]

consider tgis cat considered

[unborn pecan]

https://media.discordapp.net/stickers/1182790189249208471.png?size=160&name=catbucket

this is a bucket of hikikostar

[half rose]

#sextf2

[languid haven]

Looks like 4chan users are coping or are bot hosters.

[grim parcel]

damn right

#fixtf2

[languid haven]

Jokes on you, i used a burner email and not even my real name either.

[grim parcel]

do you really support #fixtf2 then

[languid haven]

Do you just randomly give out your main email so every company can spam it? I did that when i was younger, 1.4 million emails and i still can't use it without sending everything to the trashbin.

[grim parcel]

yes

it's to show my support

you should put yours on there

along with your full legal name

date of birth

[broken haven]

ishowspeed says dietf2

[grim parcel]

and credit card information

[languid haven]

Who is going to check every single name?

[grim parcel]

they can be sent to [email protected]

[grim parcel]

valve

[jagged pawn]

if you don't give me your social security number you want tf2 to die

[grim parcel]

exactly

[languid haven]

Look as much as i like the idea of a cult, i ain't into that.

[small siren]

*Look as much as i

like the idea of a cult,

i ain't into that.*

- jimbimbum

[grim parcel]

if you aren’t with us

you’re against us

https://tenor.com/view/meme-horrors-beyond-our-comprehension-low-tier-god-mods-banned-gif-8530537273735940092

[jagged pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/pikmin-low-tier-god-ltg-mods-crush-his-skull-carry-that-guy-back-to-the-onion-gif-9544187413703686913

[orchid sorrel]

https://tenor.com/view/pikmin-low-tier-god-ltg-mods-crush-his-skull-carry-that-guy-back-to-the-onion-gif-9544187413703686913

[hoary geyser]

fixtf2 is actually a valve sting operation to ban anyone who's complaining

[left sand]

The goals of Save TF2 should be:

• Steam Trust and implement it in TF2
• Overwatch demo reviews
• Catch up VAC to CS2's version

[kind falcon]

are you kitten me right meow

[left sand]

but right now, it's very nebulous what it means

[uncut spear]

overwatch in tf2 🥹

genuinely would love that

[kind falcon]

• Catch up VAC to CS2's version add sanity checks to the videogame

[left sand]

well yeah

but also vacnet for overwatch

[kind falcon]

that would require hardware

[left sand]

they have the money

[kind falcon]

they ban people by registry keys and other files in dota

[small siren]

*they ban people by

registry keys and other

files in dota*

- robert of shenzhen, china

[kind falcon]

do they lack the brain activity

[left sand]

also afaik they have the hardware

[kind falcon]

thats kewl

[broken haven]

what about the goals of kill tf2

[kind falcon]

ishowspeed will play tf2

🙏

[next nymph]

• Steam Distrust
• Valorant demo reviews
• Catch up VAC to CSGO's version

[broken haven]

steam distrust

[broken haven]

https://vxtwitter.com/StationOfbarny/status/1794823865941860806

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[rare creek]

average tf2

[languid haven]

this is true

[sour oxide]

based take

[burnt dragon]

cs2 vac sucks :(

make vac actually work would be nice

[uncut spear]

doesn't it suck because cs2 doesn't have the other things they listed/don't work as good as they should?

like overwatch not being in cs2 feels like a huge step down

[summer steeple]

they added overwatch a couple weeks back

[burnt dragon]

still is awful

can I share a replay

of the most blatant cheaters?

every comp game theres teams just full of wallhacks

cheaters just headshot 3 people while jumping down from short and be like, L git gut

[radiant merlin]

it isn't active yet

[kind falcon]

they really haven’t

[grim parcel]

fix tf2, duh

[potent wolf]

#breaktf2

[jagged pawn]

because the people running it are just lashing out wish no plans or goals it's embarrassing

guys if we send valve a bunch of signatures then their grinch heart will grow 3 sizes and they'll flip the magical ban all bots switch

[rare creek]

how about valve just moderates their own servers

like they own casual servers and they are just fucking 2b2t

because they are too lazy and cheap to moderate them

[crisp cedar]

bold to assume they moderate anything

its all automated...

[eternal haven]

Valve could probably get rid of most of the casual bots by just making a simple serverside anticheat like StAC or SMAC that bans clients doing bad things

[languid haven]

a guy made a video interviewing people o the USmilitary who played tf2

[eternal haven]

That would be probably the laziest approach that could be effective

[next nymph]

it would be effective for some time until they make a bot that doesnt do any of the super obvious stuff

and I mean, that'd be better, but the root of it is that a systemic problem isn't going to be solved via whack-a-mole

you'd need to do something like steam trust or overwatch that addresses it systemically

[fathom eagle]

I'm surprised review bombing tf2 isn't a part of this

especially after the helldivers 2 thing

[slender nexus]

the TF2 community is super insular so ig that thing probably flew over their heads

[jagged pawn]

^

they don't even remember what worked the first time they did savetf2, let alone what works for other communities

[grim parcel]

valve should just retweet the post they made last time

i would buy so many crates

[slender nexus]

Inb4 they make another 'update-sized update' post

it's so easy to placate tf2 fans

it's like jingling baby keys in front of their face

[grim parcel]

it’s because they overhype it

[next nymph]

fix tf2? sure, here's a hotfix-sized update

[grim parcel]

valve could probably get rid of most of the casual bots by just making a simple client side anticheat like vac that bans clients doing bad things

[slender nexus]

we fixed the missing teleporter particles, the world is saved!

[tacit flare]

Why bother? Why not just scrap casual entirely.

If they don't want to maintain it, they should at least admit as such.

[slender nexus]

Scrap? STARTS CRAFTING HATS FEROCIOUSLY

[grim parcel]

they should so bots invade community servers and people shut the fuck up

[tacit flare]

Community servers can deal with bots. At least there they actually have active admins.

Woe, IP ban be upon you!

[grim parcel]

when the bot hoster restarts their router

[tacit flare]

Valve should give the community the ability to hardware ban.

[slender nexus]

we do a little trolling

[next nymph]

maybe this is controversial but I also don't think the onus should be on volunteers to spend time moderating and community hosters to pay for servers. Like I think that's a great option, I like when games allow you to, but I don't think the basic infrastructure of the game should rely on randos hosting community servers

[tacit flare]

"My little brother was cheating not me."

[tacit flare]

That is exactly right. Unfortunately, Valve disagrees.

In the choice between Valve doing a single big update to restore quickplay vs the constant treadmill of being responsbile for maintaining their servers.. Yeah.. they're going to take the option that only needs to happen once.

[grim parcel]

faceit kernel level anti cheat for all

[tacit flare]

Oh boy I can't wait to install ring zero anticheat.

[slender nexus]

yay

can't wait for my government issued fbi agent to also double as my TF2 anti cheat

[eternal haven]

The bot hosters are low iq

They're not actual cheaters

If you break cathook from being effective they're not really going to work around it

Obviously not a permanent solution but likely would last for quite some time

[left sand]

not really, from their experience in CS, they know that adding stuff like that isnt worthwhile

it helps, but it cant be the only solution

and they already do a lot of that in TF2 already

[summer steeple]

not having a working cheat in a game is a challenge to cheat developers

especially those who can make money off of it

i'm mapping :)

oh no i pressed a button and it froze hammer

curse of ra nintendo

:(

[hoary geyser]

nintendo's ceo sensed that you put mario in your map and corrupted your hard drive with his mind

[orchid sorrel]

because it wasnt the review bomb that forced sony's hands, it was like every country on earth banning the game from purchase

[summer steeple]

sony did that themselves though lmao

[mystic turtle]

I'd def agree on this, as someone playing in Southeast Asia

If Casual were to be gutted I'd be stuck with servers that are inferior to Valve servers ping-wise

The only decentish vanilla server over here is Uncletopia, then you have all these random barely occupied servers and Skial 2fort, arguably one of the few filled servers in the region (in my experience)

and I should add, Uncletopia is also quite full a lot of the time

[cursive peak]

In theory, we'd see more community servers pop up if casual went away.

[rare creek]

#fixtf2 valve should SEND HITMEN to BOT HOSTERS to fix the cheating problem #fixtf2 #savetf2

valve is SO LAZY for not doing this!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trillion dollar company smh

[hoary geyser]

add a kill code into tf2 that murders you if you cheat

[rare creek]

I wonder if valve can put a crypto miner into tf2 to make bots impossible because it would require too powerful of a computer to run more than 3 instances of tf2 at once

20000 iq

could this be the 99999 iq solution to fixing the bot problem?

[paper sluice]

Solution: script to wipe every users entire pc on launch

[misty plover]

Save TF2 should also give me money like lots of money

[misty plover]

What "worked" was some weirdo literally standing outside of Valve's office harassing employees coming in and out until they made a statement lol

Does no one even remember that

[paper sluice]

Never even heard of that what

[rare creek]

do you know that valorant has no demos

or replays

[uncut spear]

ofc that happened 😭

[paper sluice]

Steam distrust

[misty plover]

Yeah forget who it was but someone sat outside their office bothering people until one of Valve's PR representatives walked by and they talked for a bit and said they'd look into it

Then a couple weeks later the tweet appeared

[uncut spear]

shit just casually takes control of your whole computer

[paper sluice]

Incredible

[misty plover]

Iirc it was some dude who was dressed up at spy and I think they met Kaci?

[potent wolf]

i have some vague memory of this

https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/uydmm5/outside_valves_office_building_got_kicked_out/ huh

[cursive peak]

Didn't the Spy guy attempt to get inside and security had to toss him out?

[misty plover]

Tbh I have nothing against the movement but I doubt they'd really do more than hire more contractors, and there's a very limited supply of source masochists on the market

[paper sluice]

In a couple years all the source modders might apply

New era source masochists

[unborn pecan]

there are always linux users

[drowsy marlin]

The year of the linux desktop is always next year

[misty plover]

There's a very limited supply of people who fit all the criteria currently

1. Capable of dealing with source
2. Willing to work on it
3. Wouldn't rewrite the entire codebase to their own styling (I'm filtered by this lol)
4. Can be trusted with Valve's secrets

I would immediately kill Hungarian Notation in the codebase

Instantly.

[rare creek]

what's wrong with rewriting tf2

not like anyone else works on it anyways

[potent wolf]

simply only work on ToGL

[unborn pecan]

mastercoms

[potent wolf]

something something massive waste of time

[misty plover]

I am going to eat you

[unborn pecan]

at least ask him out to dinner first bro

[cursive peak]

Vore?

[rare creek]

mastercoms already have a dope job

[misty plover]

Obvious one is a large waste of time and resources due to its age (but if I was given permission the entire economy subsection would be gutted and rewritten from the ground up in a sane way)

But also it'd be on Valve's dime not mine and they probably wouldn't be too keen on that

[rare creek]

what's wrong with the economy

[misty plover]

Economy is the management of all weapons and their stats, poorly worded area, but the way it works is a bit of a mess

[unborn pecan]

It all started with the Russian Revolution of 1918

[misty plover]

It all started with dn

[paper sluice]

Erm what’s dn

[unborn pecan]

dnsense.pub????

https://dnsense.pub

Free VAC! and you KNOW!

$wag$oft Industries Productions are the best!!!!!

[next nymph]

it was last year, linux is over now

[slender nexus]

Deez nuts

[misty plover]

Year of the freebsd desktop????!?!?!!!!!!!

[slender nexus]

fardBSD

[high current]

Year of the Linux handheld came before year of the Linux desktop

[small siren]

*Year of the Linux

handheld came before year of

the Linux desktop*

- peachestv

[high current]

I’m such a talented poet

[paper sluice]

Year of Linux will be august 12th 2036

[wild grove]

No fucking way someone asked the us military on what to do with fixtf2 🤣

U.S military be like "It's cheating bots in a nearly 15 year old game! Grow up and maybe join the military 🥺 ?"

[next nymph]

if tf2 joined the armed forces what branch would they be

[rare creek]

?

[rare creek]

air force because soldier tf2

[wild grove]

https://youtu.be/u8uaFpRGypg?si=ajs7KLvbBrGvTGRy

This is so fucking pathetic!

God it just makes me ashamed I even like this game!

[unborn pecan]

Army due to the canon lead poisining

[next nymph]

that is also a strong argument for the marines

[unborn pecan]

yeah but the army are the dumbs dumbs

[rare creek]

go to war with valve

[cursive peak]

Marines are famously crayon eaters.

[slender nexus]

give them a crayon as a treat

[unborn pecan]

https://tenor.com/d8eYMK7ngUE.gif

https://tenor.com/iUk0GH8bNow.gif

delicis

[unborn pecan]

holy shit I love this

[spare obsidian]

why the fricking army has anything to do with TF2?

[mystic turtle]

add back quickplay, enable contracts on certain servers
no more bots bc there's actual moderation

there, problem solved
now you have to get the server operators to get off their asses to provide better servers in places like mine

[eternal haven]

It's so funny how everyone on reddit and youtube and whatever is making this claim that valve neglects tf2

I don't think there's any game from around 2007 that receives anywhere near as much active support as valve provides for tf2

And all they get in return for it is people angry at them

[wild grove]

Wouldn't it be less work to just add whatever quickplay has that casual is missing?

MvM bootcamp already queues you into community servers, couldn't that be done with Casual, and hell let's put Competitive in there for funsies, with a checkbox option to enable Community Server queuing?

[mystic turtle]

I think you meant the reverse
the way I play TF2 is I try to grind contracts and improve at vanilla gameplay

but go on

[wild grove]

Quickplay had the option to spectate, auto, vote team scramble, and the big one ad-hoc.

[wild grove]

Maybe make it a drop down instead, with 3 options, Force VALVe, Mixed, and Force Community?

[mystic turtle]

exactly
Team scramble would actually be a godsend, at least where I am; I've been queued into pubstomps way too often at this point

[kind falcon]

pmc

[wild grove]

After seeing the quickplay UI before it got patched out, it should be a setting button that leads to other settings, but what those settings would include, not sure

[burnt dragon]

then do it, change your review to negative right now

and I mean, everyone else here should do it as well

you will forget to do it

and reviews will stay positive

[kind falcon]

noone simply cares

[burnt dragon]

well then if you don't care why whine about it not doing anything

[small siren]

*well then if you don't

care why whine about it not

doing anything*

- polarite

[burnt dragon]

exactly haiku bot, thanks

[kind falcon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1092001926050230302/1149096931570753568/caption-1-1.gif

[burnt dragon]

YOOO, FREE SPINNNN

[rare creek]

r unescape is even older than 2007 and sill gets updates

[grim parcel]

tf2 is younger than 2007 but doesn’t get updates
checkmate

[rare creek]

yeaj cause valve is lazy

[grim parcel]

nu uh runescape devs are just weird

no one actually plays that shit anymore lmao

if runescape was so good where’s runescape season 2??

[next nymph]

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Trailblazer_League_(2020)

||mainline runescape is still going but as far as MMOs go it's pretty niche, focused primarily on microtransactions for whales as a cashcow for Jagex. Osrs is where the playerbase is and that only dates back to 2013||

[high current]

The ability to call vote for a team scramble would be nice. But tbh I’ve found that a party of two competent players is enough to secure a roll 75% of the time. And on the off chance it isn’t enough, it’s because there’s a more stacked party on the opposition. So scrambling just ends up mixing the two parties and the roll either stays the same or is worse.
The goes for both casual “surprise team switch” and uncletopia scramble.

Also my biggest gripe is uncletopia will reset the map when it scrambles. I’ve seen it where you’re on the last point about to win and it scrambles, like bro just let the map change.

[high current]

There’s not really many examples of live service games with active economies from 2007 though. Hell even new live service games position themselves in a way to be easier to shut down, Valorant and Overwatch have skins and stuff but lack trading, so they can just shut down and the cost of skins is just eaten by the users. Where as shutting down a game with a community economy is complicated, what happens to hats worth $30k? Valve could just ignore it, but we’ve seen with CS2 they won’t do that.
I think MOBAs are a better example of old games supported by their developer, and economy wise they’re a lot more in line with TF2 and CS.

[broken haven]

do not give the whiteboy a youtube channel

[tough locust]

all these would be possible in casual it's just that the convars are all disabled. you used to be able to vote for a map and for all talk when casual first came out (completely unusable btw)

[broken haven]

im playing tf2 first time in 3 months and bots keep joining

this shit is so fuckin fuinny

[broken haven]

https://fixupx.com/terriblemel/status/1794918802548981989?t=kWjetl2MBEmj_jNekHkbNw&s=19

are they okay

[summer steeple]

what having a large dev team that is paid to work exclusively on a specific game does to content updates

(also don't forget all the cancelled OW2 content!)

[rare creek]

arent all the new heros in overwatch like super unbalanced and make the game really unfun or something

[summer steeple]

not usually iirc

from what I've seen its like slightly overtuned at launch (partially because people don't know how to play them), and then they get nerfed and then people stop playing them

[orchid sorrel]

https://x.com/WorkshopPainter/status/1795431657740419074

Painter's Workshop (@WorkshopPainter) on X

New War Paint, Pitstop Punisher! Vote for it on the Steam Workshop: https://t.co/yP7A5minKh #TeamFortress2

Twitter · May 28, 2024, 12:27 PM

cool war paint

[wild grove]

now I wanna seem em do it without the same ass team color, black color scheme, they would melt into mush trying to do that

[orchid sorrel]

ok

[high current]

I think it looks cool. I’m not a big warpaint guy, but metallic and clean is tempting

I will say the logo I could not tell what it said, I read it as “pitstop fun step”
Has nothing to do with the warpaint itself, but branding can be important

[orchid sorrel]

yea i can see that being misread

[high current]

Could also be a color blind thing since the “sher” in “punisher” is orange on orange/green background.

[mystic turtle]

true
in any case the most I can do is just get better at the game, but yeah it would be a nice-to-have thing

[eternal haven]

Does anyone have ideas for how I could cause an area of the screen in tf2 to change from black to white in response to a mouse/keyboard input while also having the game do something realistic similar to actually playing?

I'm looking to test input latency in tf2

My current setup is an empty black and white checkered map, but it's not very representative of actual gameplay since it runs at 4000 fps

And my gpu is not loaded much while running it, so I wonder if it prevents certain input lag from showing up

[summer steeple]

doesn't nvidia have a built in tool in their drivers for that stuff?

[small siren]

*doesn't nvidia

have a built in tool in their

drivers for that stuff?*

- treacherousfiend

[summer steeple]

iirc they have that and then also have an external tool (like, physical device) that can help with that, and then some games can implement it themselves for more indepth info

well it definitely is this

hmmmm

i don't know if it needs the physical device

[left sand]

a bind for changing the crosshair?

[eternal haven]

Good idea I'll try that

I also just thought of a black and white spray, and I can move the mouse

[summer steeple]

apparently if you have a new-ish g-sync monitor you can plug your mouse into the monitor itself or smth
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/reflex-latency-analyzer-360hz-g-sync-monitors/

[eternal haven]

I've basically built a bootleg version of this device with a microcontroller and a photodiode

[summer steeple]

honestly, thats pretty cool

[eternal haven]

I don't think this is helpful for tf2 as it needs a supported game that uses the reflex sdk

pretty much only newer games

also I don't have the monitor

[rare creek]

literally 1984

[craggy ridge]

Did 64 bits fix the sniper's laser dot being stuttery?

[small siren]

*Did 64 bits

fix the sniper's laser dot

being stuttery?*

- puddin555

[radiant merlin]

No

Looks very easy to fix, so surely there's some sort of regression that holds back the fix

[summer steeple]

or its just very low on valve's priority list

[rare creek]

it probably breaks demos

[summer steeple]

unlikely tbh

although it doesn't help that most people who know of the issue are like "wow shounic gave a fix" and its the shittiest fix ever that just sends more network data

even though the client already has the data

[eternal haven]

Seems likely enough to me that it would break demos

[stuck locust]

if it's just rendered inaccurately then i don't think it would affect demos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDkp-HjGvlE

or at least i wouldn't assume so

i don't know very much about how demos work but still

[eternal haven]

Oh okay didn't realize the dot itself was a networked entity

I thought the fix involved changing the network protocol to send more precise eye angles by using wider numbers

[stuck locust]

yeah i think that was the shounic fix fiend was referring to

[jagged pawn]

nightmare blunt rotation

[unborn pecan]

😭

ufr

ultra fart rotation

[jagged pawn]

oh my god I looked through their past uploads and it's all fucking slop

I hate the state of tf2 youtube they're all complete idiots where did my goats go

[unborn pecan]

funke was the best one

then he left

made original content

and hasn't been heard from since

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/978106097548283945.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=SaluteStand

rest in swag, funke

[jagged pawn]

we do love funke it's true

easiest way to figure out if a content creator is a good person is to just directly interact with them, and every interaction I've had with funke has been so positive. just a very cool guy

[unborn pecan]

yes he is very cool

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1011352133288865915.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=funkeLETSGO

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/666008714393944064.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=funkeHmm

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/508272488610922497.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=funkeuhh

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/948738175998758912.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=funkeDespair

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/666008760820695081.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=funkePog~1

[jagged pawn]

just checked all his accounts and realized he hasn't done anything anywhere (except reply to some tweets) in like 7 months, that's so tragic

[unborn pecan]

yeah idk what's been up with him

i can ask some peopel close to him

like the most active mod on his discord server

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/666008714393944064.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=funkeHmm

(I am friends with him)

[jagged pawn]

befriends mods as if they're people
very weird

[uncut spear]

https://gamebanana.com/mods/516332

bro

fuck yeah

[kind falcon]

if only there was a shader applied to all the map textures

[uncut spear]

DUDE I WISH

this might be a dumb question but why couldn't that be done? (maybe in some client side way)

always wondered that

[kind falcon]

cheats

[uncut spear]

🥹

[languid haven]

This would be nice

TF2 could add someway to change a shaderset but the issues is either preventing cheating if not handled manually but handling manually would be a bigger pain in the ass for a game with 2 Devs. Or 1 dev and a Dev contracted.

[tough locust]

could be done with reshade or something pretty sure you don't get vac banned for it. I used it for a while to get ambient occlusion in TF2

[uncut spear]

turning tf2 into sh2

[green tulip]

if you have a Nvidia card then you can get AO without ReShade

[wild grove]

You don't even need reshade if you have nvidia cards, you can use nvidia freestyle.

[eternal haven]

Have they updated it to the new exe name yet?

I think that was an issue when the 64-bit update first came out

Never tried it personally since then though, just read that

[green tulip]

for AO not even freestyle is needed

also fun fact nvidia freestyle is literally reshade under the hood

[eternal haven]

Except you can't cheat with it

Or use depth based effects and whatever

[unborn pecan]

https://github.com/craftablescience/VPKEdit/releases

I am a contributor to vpkedit again

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1105627858455506964.gif?size=48&quality=lossless&name=SteamHappyDance

[drowsy marlin]

Nice!

[burnt dragon]

sh*t hole 2 sounds like a title I can get behind

[uncut spear]

https://tenor.com/view/the-boiled-one-doctor-nowhere-the-boiled-one-phenomenon-luigi-mario-bros-gif-700150689986955036

[orchid sorrel]

https://x.com/telemac0_/status/1795116789984120986

They announced it and now it is coming (@telemac0_) on X

Jake Junior: My son, what restaurant would you like to order from
Jake Senior: I would like to eat cheese bites from Fat Goomba's Pizzeria
Jake Junior: No that is not good for your heart
Jake Senior: Can I have vegan turkey and jetsons DVDS?
Jake Junior: No.
Jake Senior: 😢

Twitter · May 27, 2024, 3:36 PM

[broken haven]

playing tf2 sniper like csgo

[craggy ridge]

https://medal.tv/clips/2bjziUjqiuW9cy/vpldRYFzM?invite=cr-MSwxc1QsMjEzMDI4OTE1LA

actually insane

i keep thinking abt these kind of people

and i can not help but imagine that there's smth going really bad in their life for that to happen

[tough locust]

just took that lmao

[wild grove]

man something real bad must've happen that day to that person to react that strongly to something that small.

[tough locust]

literally shrunk and went "okay..." to the person raging i was expecting something funny

[wild grove]

How do people even do clips? how do people just play the game and think "ah yeah this is something I should record!" instantly?

without it being shown again?

[tough locust]

if u have a graphics card there's software that will automatically let you clip the last minute or 2 of gameplay, amd has instant replay and nvidia has shadowplay

its technically constantly recording in the background into ram and any footage past that threshold is automatically removed from memory

[wild grove]

sadly I run the game on geforce now so that's prolly not possible.

It does record but I don't think it records the previous two minutes.

[cursive peak]

You could record demos of everything and go back to games with good stuff to record the good stuff.

[kind falcon]

wife material

[limpid panther]

what's medic radar?

[summer steeple]

iirc its just what people call the little thing above people's heads when they call for medic

although I thought that medic radar was a toggle some medic players did where they set the threshhold for "critical" to like 500% hp so they can see all teammates

[rare creek]

it is

though I think a lot of medic players use a bind to toggle that

[small siren]

*though I think a lot

of medic players use a

bind to toggle that*

- totallynotniteruxiswear

[summer steeple]

so this 21 year old gay guy is perhaps not caught up with the tf2 lingo

smh

and also is kind of inconsiderate to the medics in that game

[craggy ridge]

This but unironically

[slender nexus]

my humor gels with this girl ngl

[rare creek]

they are so fucking real for that

[slender nexus]

this video is unironically funny as hell to me

[rare creek]

this is so true

[craggy ridge]

I joined the transfemme hypnosis TF2 server

why are there so many gay nazis there

they were talking about gay fetishes and femboys and whatever and in an spam of 1 minute they started screaming slurs and antisemitic conspiracy

[wild grove]

Oh is it the one server brand that has topia next to the name?

not uncletopia btw

[rare creek]

i have that server blacklisted

[slender nexus]

wtf are you talking about

[left sand]

hikikostar is curious

[craggy ridge]

this thingth

i thought you knew about it

i remember talking about this server in this discord before

[rare creek]

WHAT

[craggy ridge]

didn't you say you blacklisted it

Completely unrelated but there's something I'm curious about, I installed a mod that replaces both the medpack and the ammopack pickup sound, I expect it to just use the default pickup sounds in casual servers since they're sv_pure protected, but instead there's this awful screeching, why is that?

[jagged pawn]

I don't have the reason why but that happens any time it tries to look for a modded sound that it can't use

I used to use a cs footsteps mod and had the same issue any time I walked lmao

[rare creek]

no i mean i blacklisted the server ending in -topia that isnt uncletopia

[craggy ridge]

ohh i see

[wild grove]

Yeah it's sv_pure protected, you could try redirecting it to a whitelisted sound directory.

[rare creek]

idk i just usually use the sv_pure sound bypass for sounds that allow it

[orchid sorrel]

the huh what now

[oak canyon]

nvidia lets you record the last 30 seconds of a game

[rare creek]

much longer than that

you can do up to 20 minutes

[craggy ridge]

i use medal to record things

shadowplay

[radiant merlin]

Use my mod, you can use it in casual

[jagged pawn]

do I need to do the weird preload thing or does it just work

[radiant merlin]

no

it just works

[jagged pawn]

ok you're cooking

[kind falcon]

no messages from me are ironic

[kind falcon]

dog shadowplay records on your drive go use obs

[mystic turtle]

I know how to make those, actually
I even made a hitsound/killsound pack with a ton of HL1 scientist screams

you can basically bypass ANY sound that the game doesn't force, some examples of blocked sounds being building sounds and other players' weapon sounds

[tough locust]

yeah you can do endless randomized hit sounds and kill sounds with the weapon sound script and people don't really talk about it

[mystic turtle]

another goofy one I had back in the day was making Soldier say painis whenever he fired the original

[drowsy marlin]

Wait you can randomize hit sounds?

How

[eternal haven]

If this is a concern you could always make a ram disk for it

[crisp cedar]

modifying game sound scripts

i think

[rare creek]

like i somehow have 20gb of ram to spare for instant replay...?

does it matter?

[crisp cedar]

u can try having the instant replay on a lower scale

[left sand]

there's some hitsounds which are multihit

[crisp cedar]

like

[left sand]

you can replace those

[crisp cedar]

720p

that too

[rare creek]

why would i if i can just record to my drive?

[crisp cedar]

just saying

[rare creek]

works as intended

[crisp cedar]

nice

[eternal haven]

Some people get freaked out about writing to ssds

Even with like the thousands of TB TBW ratings we have these days

[rare creek]

my nvidia recording temp folder is on a drive that is a hunk of shit i dont care about anyways

[eternal haven]

Problem solved

[rare creek]

if it dies i can use that as an excuse to get a new one

[eternal haven]

Also lets say you recorded at 50 mbps and played games for 50 hours a week, that's still only 16 TB written per year

And 50 hours a week is a lot

So it's literally a non issue for modern ssds

[rare creek]

i wouldnt be able to store 16tb a year lol

[eternal haven]

It's just writes

but it overwrites the same file

with your last however many minutes of gameplay

[cursive peak]

People freaked out about writing to SSDs and I'm over here using the same 240GB SSD for an OS/boot drive for 10 years.

[high current]

iirc SSDs technically get “worn” slightly with each write, but are generally much more stable than HDDs. So it just ends up working out to SSDs lasting longer anyway.
That being said, my HDD from 2012 was going strong up until last year when I sold it to my friend in a computer (after resetting it). It was my nvidia shadowplay HDD so it definitely wasn’t babied.

[tacit flare]

Simply use 50TB Tape storage.

[high current]

I store all my files on clay tablets.

[next nymph]

we're talking about screen footage, we should be storing it on film reels

[high current]

Film reels degrade into cellulose over time. They literally turn into a log

[next nymph]

well we're just storing the past x amount of footage in case we get a cool play or something, so thats a feature

[high current]

Logs.tf V2

[tough locust]

obs is a waste of space if im not a streamer but that makes sense, I dont see the point though doesn't obs also just record onto your drive?? I know AMD's version of shadowplay uses ram instead of drive writes

[tough locust]

dang how much did that cost back in 2014?? also yeah it's not like your SSD dies and explodes once it runs out of writes

[eternal haven]

OBS replay buffer can record into ram I think

[kind falcon]

onto ram

[drowsy marlin]

How do I set that up

[mystic turtle]

look up this
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Soundscripts
what you do is you get whichever soundscript file has the hitsounds and edit the hitsound of your choice to what sound file you want
you can use rndwave to specify multiple randomly selected sounds as well, hence you can thus have completely random hitsounds even though you only have one selected without having to rely on alias randomization

[kind falcon]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=528571728

🧌

[uncut spear]

can vouch for that guide

(spent like 30-45 minutes just to have 2 randomized hit sounds 😭)

[broken haven]

https://x.com/BigChapAlien21/status/1796590661795545163

BigChapAlien21 (@BigChapAlien21) on X

#SaveTF2 #FixTF2

Human cheaters in Team Fortress now have the ability to force you to disconnect. I ran into a cheater and called them out. After they tried to blame me for 'spoofing ping' they force disconnected me.

I haven't been able to properly boot up the game again.

Twitter · May 31, 2024, 5:12 PM

[sterile ferry]

if this isnt a new one this might be the one related to party requests

cuz ik those can be used to crash/dc people

[broken haven]

what is this thumbnail

[radiant merlin]

Team 2

[slender nexus]

fortress 2

[misty plover]

You're an illusion

[slender nexus]

my little pony is an illusion

[high current]

Thumbnails are an after thought and he made that in 15 seconds in paint, as all YouTubers do

[wild grove]

If it isn't this. They are likely blaming network issues on cheaters.

[rare creek]

https://youtu.be/zNxjTciIwig

[sterile ferry]

according to other discords its what i said

just them spamming hundreds of party related requests to crash u

apparently no workaround

[wild grove]

thankfully you can only do it to 1 person at a time but also if you got bots that do it, you could really do some damage.

(they should do it so VALVe takes immediate notice since this bug is pretty bad.)

[broken haven]

are they going to fix tf2 or is that cap

[rare creek]

idk what cap means but they are not going to fix tf2

[small siren]

*idk what cap

means but they are not going

to fix tf2*

- totallynotniteruxiswear

[summer steeple]

valve is going to take very valuable dev time away from their unfinished game and their unreleased games just to spend a couple days stopping bots for about 2 weeks definitely

[broken haven]

i just be voting no on kicking the bots at\p

[mystic turtle]

As I've said before in casual servers, it's an ancient game. They can do what they want with their IPs.

Just lend support but keep your distance.

Negativity is gonna encourage crazy stunts from the less mentally stable members of the community (like that one dingus that doxxed that FNaF-loving 10-year-old script kiddie bot hoster)
Excessive positivity and you're only setting up for disappointment

[rare creek]

we should just abandon tf2 at this point bro

[mystic turtle]

At the very least Valve could go get some contractors for it, and save the people that actually work for them for their more profitable games

[rare creek]

i aint playin overwatch tho

forcing people to add their phone number to play 💀

[mystic turtle]

therein lies the problem
the reason why people stick with TF2 is because it's more difficult to branch out
hence why I hope I can encourage the folks I run into to not give up hope on the community while lowering their expectations from Valve

[rare creek]

@left sand can you make mastercomfig 2 work on an actually good game like half life 2 or garry's mod instead of the shittest game ever

[rare creek]

this community is unsaveable

sorry

[jagged pawn]

why are you in it then lol

I don't get why people force themselves to stay in environments they hate

[rare creek]

waiting for step skyrim 2.3 guide to release

[jagged pawn]

ah I see

[mystic turtle]

Irony is itself a form of copium

but in any case, yea. Go ahead and give those bot hosters shit for once instead of letting them off on their merry way, but don't expect Valve to come down and banish the bots like it's the Second Coming

[rare creek]

sending millions of unpaid pizzas to their houses

[mystic turtle]

now, back to the usual time loop of kicking bots, playing casual, and coping with the death of TF2

(if anyone gets what I'm referencing: you have my acknowledgement)

[tough locust]

can vouch for that but god is that a ridicously over-complicated tutorial, it only takes like 10 mins tops but their explanation makes it seem like it would take an hour

why is the server icon gray

[mystic turtle]

I noticed it as well, maybe it's an elaborate pride month joke

it is june

[potent wolf]

why is the server icon gray

[rare creek]

#announcements📰 message

[tough locust]

gray pride 🩶

[mystic turtle]

lmfao

[grim parcel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhwvbPH0eh0&t=1290s
uncletopia players in tears (timestamp)

[rare creek]

https://tenor.com/view/hop-on-hop-on-val-hop-on-valorant-gif-6648815533632003703

[broken haven]

mastercomfig for fortnite

[rare creek]

mastercomfig for valorant

[grim parcel]

the saddest part of tf2's eventual death will be the loss of mastercomfig

[mystic turtle]

lmfao

[summer steeple]

iirc, the next major version of mastercomfig will be a massive overhaul of everything, which should allow for a more generic framework for optimization configs for other games, including some non-source games

[jagged pawn]

it was a joke question

but that's really funny

I didn't realize that was even on the table

[summer steeple]

well you can go to the docs right now and find an optimization for the Epic games store ;)

[potent wolf]

Good news! We're not dying! We are going to live forever!

[rare creek]

hop on valorant

[potent wolf]

die

[uncut spear]

if mastercomfig happens for l4d2, I will do naughty things

[broken haven]

naughty things

[uncut spear]

(putting non-recyclable things in the recycle bin)

[rare creek]

hop on valo

[kind falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/astolfo-death-gif-5991776206792191937

[rare creek]

is that me

[potent wolf]

sorry to hear that

[rare creek]

literally me

[kind falcon]

being fucking killed

[rare creek]

uwu

i would love that

[kind falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/seal-bark-sealbark-seal-barking-sealbarking-gif-12571202784193236844

ur turning into a troll account at this point

[rare creek]

dude

ive always been a troll account

you're just realizing this?

[uncut spear]

troll a job

sorry

[kind falcon]

sorry man we were trying to consider you genuinely

[rare creek]

has a heart attack

[rare creek]

i mean i am stupid but i am also a troll

[kind falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/ga-ga-smash-smash-ga-game-ga-smash-bros-caption-ga-gif-26154990

[rare creek]

i do genuinely enjoy valorant though

[kind falcon]

that you deserve beheading for

[rare creek]

there's not really anything bad about valorant it's just everyone has this irrational boogieman fear of a small component of it being kernel level

[lime radish]

Make a megathread about it

[kind falcon]

i hate valorant because of: riot games

[rare creek]

explain

[rare creek]

maybe

[lime radish]

.. in a megathread about it

[rare creek]

valorant is blocked by the server sorry

[crisp cedar]

youre sending a message with link markdown

dont use link markdown and itll post

[rare creek]

why are those still blocked they added a gigantic fullscreen popup whenever you click a link with markdown

[summer steeple]

because no one reads things its the internet

[crisp cedar]

first megathread to ever have 1 member

[jagged pawn]

is this because you main deadlock

[jagged pawn]

cooking

[rare creek]

i main omen

[kind falcon]

omg ure racist

🥰

[rare creek]

as if there's anything more racist than playing valorant in the first place

[rare creek]

honest to god this is the average lobby

[rare creek]

i dont understand why valve has a phobia of "treadmill work" most jobs in the world are "treadmill work",, are they just greedy asf and dont want to hire workers to do that work?

[limpid panther]

because they have too few employees for that

[rare creek]

hire more????

[limpid panther]

and hiring more people faster would mean either lowering their standards or changing the way they mananage the company I think

[rare creek]

valve is the only major game company with this few employees they are greedy assholes who want to hire as few people as possible istg

[limpid panther]

if anything they have less of an incentive to be greedy because they are a private company

no shareholders to demand maximum profit

[rare creek]

gaben needs money to fuel his knife addiction

[summer steeple]

ok here's a thought though

does anyone know if the people who patrol steam forums are actually valve "employees"

proper at least

because if not clearly valve is not averse to hiring people for support and moderation

[rare creek]

I think it's probably the game devs that moderate those or hire people to mod those

[limpid panther]

I don't know for a fact, but there is no way. They certainly outsource that work

but I think there is a big difference between outsourcing moderation and outsourcing the threadmill work that we were talking about

[summer steeple]

there are specific forum moderators for games and there's actual valve moderation

well my thought process is like

they have moderators who ban from steam discussions

why not outsource some for just like... bot banning

[rare creek]

EXACTLY

or even better

moderate everything in valve casual

[unborn pecan]

?

[rare creek]

so it isnt a toxic cesspool anymore

[summer steeple]

moderate reporting in general in tf2

[unborn pecan]

we should report fiend....

for being too fiendish

also hello kenaji

[limpid panther]

hai

[limpid panther]

forum moderation is much easier

[summer steeple]

true

I guess you can't really ban bots based on reports alone

[limpid panther]

there are a thousand heuristics and companies with a lot of experience doing that

[summer steeple]

you'd have to either watch a demo or play the game yourself

whereas forums are just... text

[limpid panther]

but not many with experience manually detecting cheaters

[unborn pecan]

we need more data collection clearly

[small siren]

*but not many with

experience manually

detecting cheaters*

- kenajcrap

[unborn pecan]

and more nvidia gpus to process that data

[rare creek]

i heard once that bots report everyone in the servers that they join

[limpid panther]

exactly

[small siren]

*i heard once that bots

report everyone in the

servers that they join*

- totallynotniteruxiswear

[unborn pecan]

and more datacenters to hold that data

and big data is going to change everything

we need more data before we can do anything

and now we can use AI to unlock our data in a new way

our data is useful, we just haven't unlocked its secrets yet

come one guys buy more nvidia gpus

[limpid panther]

they outsource forum moderation because it's low impact, low complexity work that there isn't a cleaner solution for

[summer steeple]

steam trust release when

(please valve)

[unborn pecan]

fiend trust

[limpid panther]

while moderating a game is high effort and high impact because games are their main business

[rare creek]

if you can put like, 1 moderator in spectator mode, in like, even just like 5% of valve casual servers. the cheating problem would be solved already.

[unborn pecan]

why would they do that though

People will still play and spend money on tf2 bots or no bots

[limpid panther]

if an outsourced mod team bans people from the forum unfairly it's bad but not that bad

if outsourced team does a manual VAC ban, that's kinda ouchie

[rare creek]

just make it a game ban or a casual ban

[limpid panther]

I don't think that solves anything

[kind falcon]

we had the matchmaking bans

people used to be banned by reports, too

[rare creek]

i think it does

it's pretty easy to tell the difference between a human player and a bot so false bans would be rare

and if it's not a vac ban that means it could be appealable

[unborn pecan]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/666008714393944064.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=funkeHmm

[limpid panther]

Do you remember when players started getting banned for spinning or using high sensitivity in CS2?

wouldn't you agree that's something that would happen with outsourced workers too?

[kind falcon]

they still do even tho most of them got unbanned

[rare creek]

no because outsourced workers are still real people and not a stupid ass ai that can actually see the screen and tell that someone who is spinning fast with their mouse isnt actually killing anyone or playing music through vc and spamming slurs in the chat

[unborn pecan]

you wanna train outsourced workers on the fine details of a vidie game

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/666008714393944064.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=funkeHmm

idk

I just think valve should remove tf2 from every computer ever

[kind falcon]

outsourced workers are underpaid indians

[rare creek]

i know

[kind falcon]

great

[rare creek]

I understand that indians are real people im not racist like u

[kind falcon]

❓

[left sand]

the reason for their high standards for hiring is that valve employees get a huge level of access and control over the whole company

[unborn pecan]

me when I get hired by valve and I push a commit that deletes all steam servers

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/971544964972544061.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=Cookie

oopsies

[left sand]

they can and do hire contractors to do select jobs, but their philosophy when it comes to problem solving is always having a smart person create an automated solution for it

because nothing else scales

if you have a manual solution, you need to keep hiring more and more

this is why steam support took so long to do, because of their reluctance for the support problem

but they had to just in the end hire people and have some good support tools to manage the huge queue, as well as automated tools

[rare creek]

Here's exactly what will happen if tf2 got an ai anti cheat

1. Cheaters get banned (and real people too!)
2. Cheaters make 1 small tweak to their cheat to make it look more legit
3. Cheaters use the funny cathook automated account creator to create thousands of accounts in a day and they're already back and valve has to update their ai

[unborn pecan]

wdym by AI

[kind falcon]

im playing cookie clicker

[unborn pecan]

vac is already "AI"

If you are talking about generative AI

[kind falcon]

vacnet*

[unborn pecan]

I don't see how that's going to help here

yeah vacnet

mb

"AI" has existed for so long, it's just a hype term now

[limpid panther]

this is straight up not true

[rare creek]

is this why there's a valve leak every 2 years

[unborn pecan]

actually yes

valve gives access to people who can't be trusted

[rare creek]

valve needs to realize that

[kind falcon]

in this economy?

[unborn pecan]

through community programs

and then boom

[rare creek]

their vacnet solution theyve been trying for like the past decade or whatever doesnt do anything

[unborn pecan]

if I was valve, I would have my own inteligience agency

Call it

Vaceye

[wild grove]

So you want VALVe to add human moderation to their servers or something. Or or! Remove casual so a good chunk of the playerbase leaves because aint no one gonna make a community server for their region.

[rare creek]

valve cia

[unborn pecan]

We should sell Team Fortress 2 to a venture capitalist group so it can be killed

[uncut spear]

kill competitive, leave casual

[rare creek]

there are community servers in like, every region tho, and if there arent enough then people would just create more... but yes I want valve to add human moderation

[jagged pawn]

kill casual, leave competitive

[uncut spear]

NOOOO

[jagged pawn]

kill

[uncut spear]

https://tenor.com/view/the-boiled-one-doctor-nowhere-the-boiled-one-phenomenon-luigi-mario-bros-gif-700150689986955036

[rare creek]

i guarentee there's a more diverse set of locations you can play tf2 on with community servers than whatever valve provides

[wild grove]

Honestly valve's best bet is doing what they were already doing. Walk around the situation and ignore most of the community

I already talked of how they should add better community server visibility, either by adding an option to queue for community servers like quickplay.

Hell, removing the valve servers, and just making it a queue for community servers would prolly end the whole cheater bot situation.

[rare creek]

it would but the majority of players would leave i think

[wild grove]

I mean, maybe? It would still be the same way to get into a match, just that valve servers are replaced with community servers people created. It would also bring ad-hoc back too indirectly as well.

[rare creek]

id prefer moderation

[uncut spear]

had an argument with a friend about how we really shouldn't be so reliant on the community to either be or figure out a solution for tf2

that valve should actually step up and do smthn

outsourcing moderation sounds kinda stupid tho

and mcoms already mentioned what they could implement

[uncut spear]

.

community servers should be a little more visible tho as to give people more incentive to join them in the meantime tho

for the servers open rn

[rare creek]

I dont believe in those though

[wild grove]

they got barely any options other than getting people that may not want to touch TF2's branch of source 1 to touch it or outsourcing source-1 VAC to source wizards.

[uncut spear]

welp boohoo

[rare creek]

counter strike has all of those things but STILL has a cheater problem

valve's current solutions to cheaters are dogshit

[uncut spear]

it doesn't have overwatch lol

or at least it's not been really out there

[rare creek]

counter strike still did have overwatch but it still had cheaters and many people complaining about cheaters

[wild grove]

It's a game of cat and mouse my g, there's always gonna be a # of cheaters.

[uncut spear]

yeah that's just the issue honestly

it's either valve step up or the community do smthn and both have issues

[wild grove]

If you really want a cheaterless game, go back to LAN parties.

and watch on all those peeps like a hawk

[rare creek]

i mean valorant doesnt have a whole lot of cheaters

[uncut spear]

but they have to breach privacy lol

again cat and mouse

[rare creek]

not really

[wild grove]

don't want cheaters? Community servers or don't play comp multiplayer games, play more PvE, and Single Player.

[uncut spear]

well whatever their security measures are too much basically

[small siren]

*well whatever their

security measures are

too much basically*

- aless109

[uncut spear]

telling people to enjoy singleplayer games? IMPOSSIBLE

singleplayer was ONLY GOOD when halo 1-3 came out

it's been GARBAGE ever since

[rare creek]

ive heard that vac scans your browser history

and i know it like

like dota closed your browser tabs if they had anything about cheats in them

[wild grove]

That sounds like bull

[rare creek]

vanguard isnt as invasive as vac imo, it doesnt do things like scan your browser

[uncut spear]

honestly will need a source on that

cause doesn't vanguard actively scan your programs?

not just your browser

actually I don't have much info on both vac or vanguard tbh

[rare creek]

I know discord scans your programs and it isnt some mega super kernel ring -1 level access software

[uncut spear]

that's just for streaming tho no?

outside that it doesn't really "scan" per say then

[rare creek]

nah, for game activity actually

[uncut spear]

yeah that's not much of a worry either

at least not to me

[wild grove]

You serious or joking?

[uncut spear]

yeah joke

[wild grove]

figures

[uncut spear]

doomers saying gaming died since the xbox 360 or wii

instead of just going to therapy

[rare creek]

https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1y0kc1/vac_now_reads_all_the_domains_you_have_visited/

i couldnt find anything on dota 2 closing your browser tabs istg i saw a video on it once but maybe it wasnt dota or smth idk i cant find anything on it now

[wild grove]

"Private cheats these days use a subscription service. In order to verify the cheat has to connect to a server. Valve is more then likely checking dns cache against a KNOWN list of domains in order to help catch cheaters using these services. I seriously doubt they would even have the capacity to keep dns records of millions of users.

ACS like ESEA client go way beyond this level of intrusiveness.

Everyone on here complains about cheaters non stop then get mad and spread misinformation when valve actually does something about it."

this is the first reply.

[rare creek]

doesnt mean they dont do it lol

[wild grove]

You're really giving off a mixed vibe.

[rare creek]

what does this mena

[wild grove]

I leave.

[rare creek]

??

[rare creek]

even if they have a reason for collecting your dns cache doesnt mean they dont collect the dns cache

is there anything i said that is hard to understand

[wild grove]

but why would they even collect it?

[wild grove]

Like you're being a big shill for kernel level anti cheats which are known for being more intrusive than a helicopter parent when you go out with friends.

Also human moderation for a 15 year old game? Oh please, I don't think people would want to even be paid doing that.

There's good reason why moderation is being automated.

[rare creek]

money (shocker)

that's the only reason why

people are greedy

they want to cut corners and save costs wherever possible

which is why they havent been doing anything

because even automated moderation is more expensive than none at all

in my opinion it would be best if there was never any anti cheat at all and everything was just human moderated but sadly companies just dont operate like that

[limpid panther]

do you guys realize this is a 10 year old reddit post?

[wild grove]

yes 1 human mod for every 1 match, in a game that could have 1 million players online max.

[limpid panther]

and that it prompted a direct response from gabe

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1y70ej/valve_vac_and_trust/

Cheat versus trust is an ongoing cat-and-mouse game. New cheats are created all the time, detected, banned, and tweaked. This specific VAC test for this specific round of cheats was effective for 13 days, which is fairly typical. It is now no longer active as the cheat providers have worked around it by manipulating the DNS cache of their customers' client machines.

Kernel-level cheats are expensive to create, and they are expensive to detect. Our goal is to make them more expensive for cheaters and cheat creators than the economic benefits they can reasonably expect to gain.

There is also a social engineering side to cheating, which is to attack people's trust in the system. If "Valve is evil - look they are tracking all of the websites you visit" is an idea that gets traction, then that is to the benefit of cheaters and cheat creators. VAC is inherently a scary looking piece of software, because it is trying to be obscure, it is going after code that is trying to attack it, and it is sneaky. For most cheat developers, social engineering might be a cheaper way to attack the system than continuing the code arms race, which means that there will be more Reddit posts trying to cast VAC in a sinister light.

the social engineering aspect only became more important as time went on

this is precisely why client based anti-cheat is not effective, and must be completemented by a serverside solution

the treadmill is ^10 steeper in the client than it is in the server

VACNet was effective for months before people started to spend a fuck ton of time farming trust factor to dumb bad veredicts on overwatch

[rare creek]

there's only like 20k real people playing tf2 and even then only half those people are on valve casual and even thenyou honestly only need a real person for like every 4 matches in servers that can have up to 24 people in them

[limpid panther]

they are currently working on that

[wild grove]

There isn't 20k, that's a underestimate of how many players there is. Don't believe the rock man.

[rare creek]

you mean the japanese localization of Mega Man?

wtf you mean "rock man"

[wild grove]

yeah, sure let's go with that 👍🏽

[wild grove]

Youtuber is a geology major.

[rare creek]

sorry there's actually way less

[wild grove]

Something related to studying rocks

lmao teamwork.tf, really?

[rare creek]

uh

[wild grove]

That isn't accurate, and steam isn't either.

[rare creek]

yeah?

and?

it cant be more than like 100 off anyways it's not going to be over 4 times smaller than the real number

you massively, massively overestimate how many people play tf2

[wild grove]

Lmao no. I really don't care. That's something for the devs to worry

[rare creek]

lol, k

[wild grove]

Like why worry about playernumbers? What you gonna do? Update the game with major content? Good luck, you'll prolly be more intrigued by the new cool thing they are working on anyways.

[rare creek]

because it lets me illustrate my point that it would be really really easy to hire enough people to moderate tf2 casual

[wild grove]

no one would want to do that.

[rare creek]

why

much less soul sucking of a job than working at mcdonalds

[unborn pecan]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/666008714393944064.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=funkeHmm

we had a whole

conversation about whyh teamwork.tf is not accurate

[left sand]

astolfo why are you even talking

whats the point

[uncut spear]

to defend valorant

[kind falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/ratio-valorant-wingman-gekko-bozo-gif-5528041578743926980

[unborn pecan]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/275004607690702848/1212826647741341757/dougie_funny.gif

@rare creek

say hi to dougie

dougie is a valve employee

dougie is deleting your steam account rn

goodbye

[wild grove]

Awww, look at the goofy goober!

[unborn pecan]

yes

dougie is the most goofiest

mostr swaggest

most chill

of dogs

[uncut spear]

my man zooted

[rare creek]

ive considered stopping talking