#Team Fortress 2 Megathread - winter is the most chill time of year

1 messages · Page 64 of 1

stuck locust
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people saying that there's thousands of casual bots is a pretty ridiculous estimate

livid oracle
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lmao

stuck locust
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if there's really that many bots, then they're primarily idle bots who don't really do anything to the game

livid oracle
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that is an idiotic estimate

stuck locust
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other than inflate the player count

stuck locust
livid oracle
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like just a mathematically stupid estimate

stuck locust
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yeah idk what they're really thinking

craggy ridge
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i agree

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oh nooooooo there's 80k bots that do absolutely nothing and have no impact in gameplay

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that does not really matter

stuck locust
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if it's true, then we should keep those bots since it keeps us on the steam charts

small sirenBOT
#

*if it's true, then we

should keep those bots since it keeps

us on the steam charts*

- Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz
livid oracle
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the funny thing is that tf2 would still be at the top even if the count was accurate

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who cares anyway

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do ppl actually obsessively check the steam charts

potent wolf
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i check it every day before i go to bed

crisp cedar
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they cant post this

stuck locust
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i think we'd still be higher

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or about equal

next nymph
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correct

craggy ridge
crisp cedar
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dont quote me on it

craggy ridge
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what if i do

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then what

crisp cedar
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youd look like a fool

craggy ridge
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what ur gonna do

crisp cedar
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im not a reputable source my hunch just tells me tf2 fans are insecure

craggy ridge
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i hope Tyler McVicker cites you as a source one day so everyone trusts you

crisp cedar
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idk

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what if he starts dming me with "If you're a woman, hello!"

craggy ridge
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wait what he does that?

crisp cedar
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allegedly he was writing with an alleged valve employee

kind falcon
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it’s on the level of counter strike

craggy ridge
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would you answer hello back to Tyler

kind falcon
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allegedly

crisp cedar
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our interests dont align

livid oracle
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would you kiss tyler on the lips

crisp cedar
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i am not into men + he is in a committed relationship already

eternal haven
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My bad, Xitter was hiding parts of it since I wasn't logged into an account

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I read it now

potent wolf
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could you please screenshot so the rest of us can read it

heavy solarBOT
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@potent wolf has leveled up! (49 ➜ 50)

levelup.png
eternal haven
potent wolf
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oh lol

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ty

uncut spear
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WTF THATS A WEBITE???

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fuck yeah

slender nexus
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no he says it's actually impressive that TF2 is still achieving 30k+ real people but the player numbers are still super inflated

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and he also notes that basically every player peak since jungle inferno has been attributed to botting

livid oracle
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why did people freak out about this and why is it an hr long vid

slender nexus
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mainly because tf2s real player numbers have plateaued at about 30k for the past few years and

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this video probably spurred the creation of the newest bots that play normally for a bit and then begin disrupting games by running mass votekicks

eternal haven
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The video could have been 5-10 minutes long and communicated about the same stuff

orchid sorrel
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2 aussies in the same lobby

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crazy

slender nexus
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holy hell and they're valuable ones

craggy ridge
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Like a business handshake

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Lock in rayne

high current
radiant merlin
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dx8 moment

image.png
summer steeple
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i wish dx8 would just fucking die please god

unborn pecan
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don't use dx8

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it sucks

rare creek
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yeah what the HELL are you doing using fucking dx8 wtf is wrog with you

radiant merlin
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from github trollfig

unborn pecan
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FARDHUB

mystic turtle
# unborn pecan FARDHUB

ah, yes. the GREATEST git fork that everyone totally uses: fard
It still is somehow hosted on GitHub

left sand
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it's not necessarily dx8

unborn pecan
mystic turtle
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fard push into_trash git

summer steeple
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is extendfreeze still broken

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well fixed but not fixed

unborn pecan
radiant merlin
summer steeple
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holy shit real

summer steeple
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murder

---_is_looking_good.png
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old one from my friend

20231006230816_1.jpg
radiant merlin
uncut spear
grim parcel
left sand
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lmao

crisp cedar
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by supporting it for 10 years with major updates which is way more than most live service games live for

nZgyVdr.png
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and were talking about only tf2 here

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why are they so smug about it

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so sad

next nymph
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artifact and underlords

crisp cedar
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doesnt count

left sand
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dota ip has had a worse track record for support than tf2

next nymph
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no i mean "this is how valve is gonna support it" and their example is tf2 instead of artifact and underlords?

crisp cedar
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oh

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lol

livid oracle
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artifact?

grim parcel
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its come full circle

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valve is now copying overwatch

crisp cedar
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i really do hope they do this

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itd be actually so funny because i can only see this backfiring

broken haven
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(only their brain is hit)

tacit flare
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As in, if Valve can't care enough to maintain casual, at least restore quickplay and let the community moderate itself. Breath new life back into community servers would be nice.

wild grove
uncut spear
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no, people wanna play casual and comp for some reason!!!

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RANKING UP WHEN IT GAINS NOTHING IS IMPORTANT TO ME 😭

wild grove
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There's also the system that they also used in csgo to create "balanced matches" which is far from the case lol.

summer steeple
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its funny how bad skillbased matchmaking is for team based games

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because there's just too much to take into account for actual accuracy

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so a lot of games just don't

left sand
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i think it works pretty well

summer steeple
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it depends

left sand
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the only thing i think could improve it is a bucketing matrix

small sirenBOT
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*the only thing i

think could improve it is a

bucketing matrix*

- mcoms
summer steeple
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bucketing matrix?

left sand
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idk i made it up

summer steeple
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oh lmao

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idk why but I think about matchmaking a lot

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its very interesting

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because ideally you'd have a system that takes into account like every single variable

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but there's just too much

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and a lot of times you have player behavior that is good that is unintended by the devs so maybe its considered bad

paper sluice
summer steeple
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I don't even want to know what overwatch's matchmaking looks like because it probably is just barely functional

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like how do you take into account the fact that every single support plays completely different, and healing isn't necessarily a priority

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especially with balance changes

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you acn't just use raw numbers

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same with KDA

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by itself its kind of useless unless you're a massive outlier

small sirenBOT
#

*by itself its kind

of useless unless you're a

massive outlier*

- treacherousfiend
left sand
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any variable is redundant

summer steeple
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wdym

left sand
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anything that contributes to a win, will make you win more

summer steeple
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true but you also have to deal with the potential of just not being good enough to carry your team, even if you're at a lower rank than you potentially belong

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its worse in games with strict team comps like overwatch imo

kind falcon
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ure not supposed to carry anyon

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no?

summer steeple
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ideally yes

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but say you're like a diamond support in OW, and your teammates just can't actually kill anyone

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what can you do to help your team win in that situation aside from keep throwing them at a team that they can't win against?

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so you lose, and you lose rank

kind falcon
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ideally you should be a machine calculating enemy’s path rebuilding player movement in your head and owning every single person in the enemy team

livid oracle
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new matchmaking concept: you press the Play button and instead of having to wait, you get a list of servers that you can pick from and join instantly

heavy solarBOT
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@livid oracle has leveled up! (50 ➜ 51)

levelup.png
kind falcon
summer steeple
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we should use machine learning to have a bot replay matches and then calculate MMR by comparion player actions on what the AI would've done to get an ideal result trollfig

kind falcon
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chess

summer steeple
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chess is 1v1 you can use W/L there

left sand
slender nexus
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tf2 should have a matchmaking mechanism that tracks how many people on the other team has been doin' yer mom

trollfig

summer steeple
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idk I think there's some situations where you just can't imo

left sand
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yeah but over 20 matches

summer steeple
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i guess maybe

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idk I've had weird experiences in some games where for like one season I drop down to bronze and can't get out

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and i don't want to just claim "omg elo hell this game sucks"

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cause a lot of the time elo hell doesn't exist

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like 99% of the time

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and y'know, i'm not a game dev, and this is all anecdotal, and i'm not like a diehard competitive gamer

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I think a lot of issues with skillbased matchmaking are kind of overblown because of gamers

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but it kind of is a shame that for matchmaking we have to just get stuff thats "good enough"

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and I think that its also unfortunate that in team based games there is a potential window for games where you aren't good enough to carry, and your team isn't good enough to be relied on

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but thats just how it is

broken haven
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we should complain abt sbmm on twitter

slender nexus
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super bros melee maker

mystic turtle
jagged pawn
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can't post what just happened because it will be deleted but I cannot stop laughing

uncut spear
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send it in a twitter thread so half of us can't read it

grim parcel
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fr

jagged pawn
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lmfaoooo

image.png
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(this screenshot is a bit btw but he did immediately change his profile info)

uncut spear
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what

jagged pawn
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he leaked something he should not have leaked about valve content

summer steeple
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tbh i'm so sick of valve leaks

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I don't think the stuff leaked at this point is SDK stuff so clearly its just someone there whose lips aren't sealed quite enough

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unless valve is putting unreleased S2 stuff in some dev SDKs that they're giving out but i doubt it!

jagged pawn
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yeah not at all valve's fault they trusted him to give them feedback on something lol

uncut spear
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i wonder if this is the start of the tf2 revolution

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(we just got a contractor update, why are people crying)

zealous pond
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Uncle Dane drama?!

uncut spear
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he cheated on aunt may

zealous pond
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The cad.

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Time to cancel him.

uncut spear
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noticed a quite peculiar and well known name within the Team Fortress 2 community. . .

mystic turtle
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oh shit, I was right in saying it was a Texan, but not just any 'ol one
the frickin miami nights unusual man himself?

eternal haven
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Anyone know how they get the breakdown per gamemode?

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considering the servers are now SDR and all that

broken haven
next nymph
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where are the tf2bers that be like "[TF2] i have a realistic but optimistic perspective"

broken haven
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downvote

left sand
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doomer meta

hoary geyser
spare obsidian
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remenber that tf2tubers can also leak gameplay too

mental warren
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nuke linux support from orbit

rare creek
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kill tf2

languid haven
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how odd is it for legacy gl to set mat_dxlevel to 92 but dxvk sets it to 100?

summer steeple
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not odd at all

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dxlevel 92 is setup to have specific ToGL settings

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dxvk doesn't need those

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so it just uses the highest

languid haven
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ah ok, just checking. thanks

summer steeple
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ye its intended behavior

eternal haven
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To be honest the difference isn't really even that meaningful

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92 basically overrides these caps from the driver to the below values, whereas 100 doesn't override any of them:

case 92:
    pCaps->m_nVertexTextureCount = 0;
    pCaps->m_nMaxVertexTextureDimension = 0;
    pCaps->m_bSupportsVertexTextures = false;
    pCaps->m_bSupportsBorderColor = false;
    // 2b gets four lights, 2.0 gets two...
    pCaps->m_SupportsShaderModel_3_0 = false;
    if ( IsOpenGL() )
    {
        if ( IsOSX() )
        {
            pCaps->m_bSupportsStaticControlFlow = CommandLine()->CheckParm( "-glslcontrolflow" ) != NULL;
        }
        else
        {
            pCaps->m_bSupportsStaticControlFlow = !CommandLine()->CheckParm( "-noglslcontrolflow" );
        }
        pCaps->m_MaxUserClipPlanes = 2;
        pCaps->m_UseFastClipping = false;
        pCaps->m_MaxNumLights = pCaps->m_bSupportsStaticControlFlow ? MAX_NUM_LIGHTS : ( MAX_NUM_LIGHTS - 2 );
    }
    else
    {
        pCaps->m_MaxNumLights = MAX_NUM_LIGHTS;
    }
    pCaps->m_nMaxViewports = 1;
    pCaps->m_NumPixelShaderConstants = 32;
    pCaps->m_nMaxVertexTextureDimension = 0;
    pCaps->m_bDX10Card = false;
    pCaps->m_bDX10Blending = false;
    pCaps->m_MaxVertexShader30InstructionSlots = 0;
    pCaps->m_MaxPixelShader30InstructionSlots  = 0;
    pCaps->m_bCanStretchRectFromTextures = false;
    break;```
#

I have a hard time finding any visual differences caused by any of these, if you know any do let me know

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Also has anyone even checked that the way dxsupportlevel is forced to 100 when using dxvk actually gets properly or fully applied?

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It seems like it may not be

left sand
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theres lots of stuff that get affected by that and also theres some explicit dxlevel checks throughout the code

eternal haven
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True it's definitely not just that

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But looking at screenshots of the same place with setpos/setang between even dxlevel 90 and 100 I couldn't notice any visual differences

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Performance differences are another question of course

left sand
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youre not gonna see much different on just the world rendering

heavy solarBOT
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@left sand has leveled up! (77 ➜ 78)

levelup.png
eternal haven
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I looked at world and some models

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particles are harder to compare but I couldn't immediately notice anything

left sand
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i believe its mostly characters which get changes, especially cloak

eternal haven
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What do you think about the dxlevel 100 when using dxvk?

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To me it seems like it's not properly set and it still uses some settings from your old dxlevel

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I guess one perhaps decent way to compare visual differences would be to record a demo with as many different kinds of things visible as possible, and then render it to lossless images on each dxlevel or whatever

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At that point you could subtract the images or whatever other comparison you want and see exactly what looks different

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Maybe I'll try that sometime

summer steeple
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i don't know if they took that into account for dxvk, or if i'm right

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but there are a few places in the code that check specifically for the -dxlevel launch option

eternal haven
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Well certainly setting it in the windows registry or the linux videoconfig is sufficient

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eg. you do not need the launch option

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but the dxvk forcing to 100 seems like it's perhaps done too late into the game, when it has already set some settings according to your registry/videoconfig dxlevel

summer steeple
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no thats what i'm saying

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there are some parts of the code that specifically check the launch option

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its possible that even changing via the registry is missing some things

eternal haven
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Well, using the launch option once and then removing it for following launches should be identical to changing in registry

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And it seems like the dxvk forced dxlevel 100 is not the same as setting dxlevel 100 in registry

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Whether or not there are differences between registry vs launch option I'm not sure if many people care, since everyone removes the launch option after setting it

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Looking through the game there are really only a few direct checks for the launch option apart from the main one

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Most of them meaningless like using it to show you a number in the options dialog

livid oracle
#

Would this change to the Cow Mangler's charged shot be balanced?

Charged shot deals 150 base dmg (203 dmg from minicrits)

Charged shot explosion radius doubled

Charged shot disables buildings for 12 sec

Building disable duration increased to 24 sec if 3 or more sentries in the explosion radius

Charged shot completely disables wrangled sentries until destroyed

Can not reload until charged shot explodes

Marked for death while firing charged shot
soft lynx
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hmm, I don't know it can still random crit

next nymph
mystic turtle
jagged pawn
uncut spear
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mfs won't even say the color of what tf2 is dyeing to

zealous pond
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Just give it five shots and increase rampup again.

rare creek
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tf2 is so over

zealous pond
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Been over since 2010.

crisp cedar
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just remembered how tf2 fans tried getting the game to win a labor of love award because they thought itd make valve release an update

rare creek
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just remembered how tf2 fans thought that not spending money on the game would make valve pay any more attention to it instead of abandoning it more

broken haven
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white boy video essay

rare creek
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tf2 content on youtube has been dead for at least a year

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i think the creation of the wamo youtube channel marked the beginning of the end

broken haven
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tf2 players should play other games atp

rare creek
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tf2 players don't play other games

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if they did they wouldn't keep complaining about tf2

broken haven
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they should play game like fortnite

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season 3 this friday use code mastercoms when buying the battling pass

crisp cedar
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itd be a healthy divorce

rare creek
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i know of at least uncle dane and soundsmith primarily playing not-tf2 according to their steam profile

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tf2 purely for the occasional youtube video

crisp cedar
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yeah uncle danes been playing something

broken haven
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playing some fortnite 🌹

crisp cedar
#

every day i thank god for not making me a fortnite pass completionist

rare creek
uncut spear
glass musk
uncut spear
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they're complaining about TF2 being dead? wait until they see team fortress classic. . .

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or the heart attack that is day of defeat. . .

next nymph
unborn pecan
#

The only thing more annoying than complaining tf2 fans are people who complain about tf2 fans non stop

broken haven
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i think ppl who complain abt tf2 fans are badass

rare creek
#

i complain about tf2 fans at every possible opportunity

crisp cedar
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idk i think tf2 fans should be oppressed more

rare creek
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i agree

crisp cedar
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i think theyve gotten away with too much

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cheater bots and the alleged new valve project is like the rapture for tf2 players

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god's divine punishment

next nymph
zealous pond
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Fortnite sux

next nymph
zealous pond
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I have. Already sent them elephant poo.

languid haven
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ok the stutters from input disappeared when steam overlay is turned on. idfk why, it feels like it happens at 1/10th the intensity and goes away after but for some reason overlay being off makes the game unplayable.

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i've never seen a game make steam overlay a hard requirement to play before.

rare creek
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tf2 is so dead omg

tacit flare
potent wolf
unborn pecan
tacit flare
# unborn pecan :\

I'm at peace with it. Maybe one day Valve will do something, but i'm not counting on it.

grim parcel
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will be awesome to see what they've been working on the last few years

kind falcon
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isnt it almost coming to a decade

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nvm

grim parcel
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it took them like 8 to make tf2

unborn pecan
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same getchoo

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I wanna see the game as well

tough locust
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its almost the 10th anniversary of love and war :D

formal dew
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team fortress 2

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is and is not dead

orchid sorrel
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Zombie game

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Not to be confused with left 4 dead the game about zombies

high current
# grim parcel it took them like 8 to make tf2

Didn’t they do like 85% of the actual work for the game in the last 9 months though?
I mean the whole “9 years in development” includes tf2:brotherhood of arms and tf2: alien invasion at the very least. Brain storming isn’t a waste of time by to say they spent 9 years laboring away at the product we got is just kinda not the valve way, it’s more like they spent 9 years making 10 different versions of the game that never saw the light of day.

heavy solarBOT
#

@high current has earned the Level 2 role!

high current
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One of those versions of TF2 probably sat in the freezer until it turned into whatever that new thing Tyler McVicker said is coming out

crisp cedar
#

tsk tsk

grim parcel
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my point was just that 4 or 5 years from us hearing about a game valve is developing isn’t super long

languid haven
tacit flare
#

And always remember, Valve has the special ability to shelve any game they're creating all the way up to 99.9% complete.

tough locust
#

9 years of shooting into the dark and then releazing that what worked was in front of them the whole time

kind falcon
grim parcel
#

campo santo has to make more than a single fucking game

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firewatch was so good

kind falcon
#

wow valve is working steamhapp

orchid sorrel
#

skin rental is crazy

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unironically

wild grove
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there's 0 fomo

uncut spear
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well a little bit of fomo for old warioware servers

tough locust
#

you can still boot them up with some work i'm sure but there's nobody around still playing them

uncut spear
#

OMG PARKOUR FORTRESS

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dude I forgot about that wtf

tough locust
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i wish they made a parkour fortress vscript mode ngl

tawny gate
#

I guess redsun is the only option if you want to play most of those now

uncut spear
#

ik this is more recent but

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the one photoshop flowey map they had 🥹

misty plover
languid haven
#

Looks more like overwatch.

tough locust
wispy meteor
#

Is the new benchmark available or not yet

stuck locust
#

the newest ones are from shounic

languid haven
#

steam seems to be down right now

cursive peak
languid haven
#

its back

paper sluice
kind falcon
#

thank god i can use this to my advantage on my favorite map 2fort

radiant merlin
slender nexus
#

mother fucker the bots evolved again

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still kickbots but when they run a vote they run an audio clip of some guy shouting 'f1 kick him f1'

wild grove
#

Skinwalkers

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except at least skinwalkers try to be less obvious they are skinwalkers

mystic turtle
#

lmfao

rare creek
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@livid oracle do you run tf2 borts

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bots host

languid haven
#

couldn't valve do a new TOS that'd get cheaters to agree to owe money to valve for everytime they bypass an anticheat? they could use that as a way of driving them into bankruptcy if it's legal.

eternal haven
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No

languid haven
#

if NDAs can be used to punish so could a TOS if they need a steam account to play and arre only making multiple accounts for malicious means. yes i'd say hosting bots are malicious, cheating is scum sure but hosting bots is far worse.

rare creek
#

that doesn't do anything

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fortnite sued tons of cheaters but people still cheat

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same with league of legends I think

livid oracle
rare creek
#

hoster

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bort hoster

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this thing

livid oracle
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no because i have better things to spend time on (college, reading, spending time with friends/family, etc)

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(videogames, etc)

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(the videogames is tf2 and gmod)

grim parcel
high current
next nymph
high current
#

I think sniper should be balanced by introducing wind to the game and having sniper bullets be affected by wind and wind direction. 🤯

next nymph
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make sniper bullets airblastable

soft lynx
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only if they hurt everyone

kind falcon
broken haven
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give tf2 sniper the reaper sniper rifle

high current
#

How about this: if everyone can headshot, functionally no one can headshot. Ez fix

kind falcon
hoary geyser
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let pyro headshot

wild grove
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(Which is bad or good depending on how much of a nerd you are.)

orchid sorrel
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i think we should remove one of snipers legs so he has to walk around like Munch from oddworld

wild grove
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They should add the rocket beam heavies from one of the community mvm tours into the regular game so people don't play TF2 anymore.

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Those things were horrible, one shotted everytime, only way you couldn't be damaged is if you used uber canteens.

burnt dragon
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would making the sniper rifle reload after each shot and setting the ammo amount to 10 solve sniper being OP?

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their DPS would be lower and they would have to position on either front lines or near ammo packs/engineers which is an easier target and in the open

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and that way it solves problem of high experience snipers camping on corners whole game and just killing people until they run out of ammo

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while inexperienced ones dont have a change in gameplay since they dont survive that long

livid oracle
burnt dragon
#

it has an extremely high skill ceiling compared to other classes

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changing those rates would still make improving said skilling useful but less increase in dps using quickscopes

livid oracle
next nymph
#

i feel like the skill ceiling people assume in these balance discussions is literally unachievable by humans. Like if you watch a top sniper pov they miss, people can outmaneuver them, etc.

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this hypothetical sniper that hits every shot and completely holds down an entire sightline is called an aimbot. I don't think we should balance the game around aimbots

livid oracle
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whats like the hit percent for top snipers

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isn't it like 50% or something

next nymph
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yeah thats the number i remember

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including bodyshots

livid oracle
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and that's like the tippity top ones

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and it's how they catch cheaters trollfig

next nymph
#

of course, you can make it easier for the sniper if you don't try to outmaneuver them. But that doesn't have much place in this balance discussion either imo, we don't say stickytraps are overpowered because people blindly walk into them or pyros are overpowered because people let themselves be W+M1'd

livid oracle
#

if you get the timings down for scoping in and their attack interval you can do a very good job of avoiding being shot while in their sightline

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the ones that can still hit you are such a tiny minority of snipers that idk why that matters

misty plover
#

Sniper nerf suggestion

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Mae plushie on his head

livid oracle
#

taking long breaks from tf2 and coming back and Refreshing Opinions on stuff i just always end up confirming what i used to believe

misty plover
#

People don't understand balance and want the game to revolve around their experience rather than others?

livid oracle
#

like i hop on after months of not playing still never get superpwned by snipers even in the supposedly Sweaty uncletopia servers where the snipers supposedly headshot you instantly the microsecond they see you

#

it always ends up that the most annoying things i encounter are just

#

wrangler, vacc, airblast

misty plover
languid haven
# livid oracle

unfair nerf to bad snipers you spend more time looking for ammo than looking for someone to shoot.

misty plover
#

The way to nerf sniper is to make better maps

#

Like unironically that is all I can say

livid oracle
#

the wya to nerf sniper is to add a tutorial on how to use your strafe keys

languid haven
#

yes just make a map that makes sniper useless

misty plover
#

You need to make the sniper have a choice between sticking with their team for resources or playing in a visually advantageous but easily flankable spot.

languid haven
misty plover
#

Visually advantageous, as in, a good sightline. Make it harder for sniper to be in the frontlines, add more scenery or props to hide behind to interrupt the immediate view from the ground level, but are less bothersome if you're in a specific positions

#

That's kind of what it comes down to

#

It's hard to describe without a solid example

languid haven
#

yeah also cause for soldier and scout even 2fort battlements are easily flankable.

next nymph
#

the way people talk about sniper and maps is just totally different from every other class in the game. Like imagine someone saying "engie is overpowered. I was playing attack on dustbowl and ..."

misty plover
#

People don't like losing

languid haven
misty plover
#

Especially when they know they shouldn't have made the mistake and should have known better and got punished for their hubris

languid haven
#

you mean the demographic that wants to whine about a game but won't do something to demonstrate what they think would be better? and of course i mean they should test it and not make a rant video on yt. no one would listen anyways.

#

if TF2 was meant to be balanced it'd lower your respawn time to accomodate for the time it takes to walk to the frontlines

#

if anything i don't even think it's the headshots but the respawn times people are more bothered by so here's a better suggestion. halved respawn times for being killed with the sniper rifle. 15 goes to 6 or 7 and 30 goes to 15 and yes respawn times can get that bad, i've seen them get as bad as 55 seconds. i blame the maps.

rare creek
#

the only thing that should be fixed about tf2 is removing tf_weapon_criticals... in fact, don't even give people the option to enable it. completely REMOVE tf_weapon_criticals

slender nexus
#

rip out the teeth of everyone who likes random crits

rare creek
#

uncletopia players learn maps other than pl_upward exist colorized 2024

image.png
languid haven
rare creek
#

rip the legs off everyone who likes random crits

zealous pond
#

No.

#

Let's add killstreak bonuses instead.

tough locust
# livid oracle

every idea i've seen to solve problems with bots and snipers shows why we're the people that play the games and the smart guys are the ones that actually make the games

zealous pond
#

They listened to players in the past so they weren't that smart.

tough locust
#

true cough cough comepetitive

heavy solarBOT
#

@tough locust has leveled up! (8 ➜ 9)

levelup.png
languid haven
next nymph
#

players arent real

slender nexus
#

I don't have the orange tf logo so just imagine this one is orange

#

it's so sad valve bended to the will of comp players like b4nny and made weapons unfun to use like the bison

livid oracle
#

really the only weapons i could think of that got fucked for comp play is like

#

the eviction notice i guess

#

the gru is literally better than it used to be

#

the razorback is still used

#

the base jumper is still good

#

i dont understand where this "comp players ruined tf2 balance" thing comes from

soft lynx
#

brainrot

livid oracle
#

there's like 4 comp-focused weapon changes in total

#

like are you gonna tell me the yer change is meant for 6s

#

i have gun mettle to blue moon weapon balance changes basically memorised, which is what makes me think wtf are ppl talking about when they say comp players ruined the weapon balance

#

the changes that ppl dislike the most are on shit that comp players never even used or never banned

zealous pond
#

Didn't they change the Phlog to uber on taunt for comp so he couldn't tank while capping? That was a dumb change.

livid oracle
zealous pond
#

All these changes were ages ago lol

livid oracle
#

it used to be that phlog fully heals

zealous pond
#

Yeah that was better.

livid oracle
#

it was in the tough break update

#

idk how this is a change youre pressed about in regards to comp

small sirenBOT
#

*idk how this

is a change youre pressed about

in regards to comp*

- crawl space
high current
#

I was told this by sigafoo himself

livid oracle
#

like are you seriously telling me that a secret cabal of comp players told valve to change the phlog taunt from an overheal into an uber way back in 2015

#

like for what purpose

soft lynx
#

because they hate all things fun, duh

livid oracle
#

that shit isnt useful in 6s at all

#

in hl idk it still sounds likr a minor thing

#

i can really only see it being a cheese strat in pubs

zealous pond
#

I do remember some conversation about it back then.

livid oracle
#

whats so bad about it anyway

zealous pond
#

Mostly HL.

high current
#

It was probably banned in 6s in 2015 tbh, and then valve consulted b4nny on why things were banned. The whitelist opened up a lot when ESEA died.

livid oracle
#

the phlog was never banned in 6s

#

why would it be?

#

what

soft lynx
#

literally why would you run phloh in sixes

livid oracle
#

the pyro is used pretty much exclusively for its airblast

high current
#

B4nny has a video of him going through the suggested changes and explaining how much he suggested vs how much they listened to

#

Phlog plays exist. They’re pretty rare but I think gullywash last pushes you occasionally see a Phlog attempted

livid oracle
#

i didnt say its never used

#

but that its so rare and minor why would it ever be banned

high current
#

Back in 2015 though it was probably just banned because “off class being able to kill = bad, on demand crits = bad, meme play = bad”

livid oracle
#

you keep saying probably

#

but like

#

you can just look it up?

high current
#

That was the competitive mentality back then

livid oracle
#

i do not remember phlog being banned at all

orchid sorrel
#

If it was banned, i assume it would be for popping mmph on a contested point

livid oracle
#

regardless even if the uber thing was a comp-focused change i cannot see st all how it fucked the weapon

orchid sorrel
#

Since prior to that you could jump on a point and pop mmph and be close to unkillable

high current
#

Phlog was banned in s21 ESEA, which iirc was the most recent one played. So it had probably been banned for a while. Hard to look at historical whitelists on mobile whitelist.tf

livid oracle
#

like the capping thing is more of a dumb exploit than anything

orchid sorrel
#

Then they made it uber so you cant cap

livid oracle
#

like whats the big loss here

zealous pond
#

Not being able to cheese caps.

high current
#

Honestly I think it’s a fine change. I wish they’d make it so the Uber was tied to the taunt, so taunt canceling would end the Uber at the same time. You’d still get extra crits but not free 1-2 sec of Uber. But something tells me that’d be too complicated

zealous pond
#

It would be fine if they kept the regen.

livid oracle
#

there's so much better reasons to hate 6s players than blaming them for like an exploit fix in 2015

soft lynx
high current
#

I think Phlog is fine as is. Flare gun afterburn dealing a full 60 regardless of splash radius makes it brain dead easy to charge. Having to think about where you use it gives the weapon some skill requirement if you squint

next nymph
#

i never got the impression this was a competitive-minded change. Being able to cheese caps is 100% the kind of thing valve would address for pubs

zealous pond
livid oracle
#

like with shotgun damage

#

capping a point while unkillable is barely pvp

#

i genuinely dont get why thats something you care so deeply about

high current
#

Wouldn’t be a bad change, but honestly if it’s a discussion of viability then why use anything other than scorch shot

livid oracle
#

and why you blame that on 6s lol

livid oracle
zealous pond
#

I said comp not 6s.

high current
#

Tbh if you were getting health regen on the control point, a demo would just 3 stick your feet

soft lynx
#

lol hl

heavy solarBOT
#

@soft lynx has leveled up! (1 ➜ 2)

levelup.png
next nymph
#

where are the bball-oriented balance changes

high current
soft lynx
high current
livid oracle
#

my main complaint with scorch is really just that getting hit by the edge of the blast still gives you full afterburn duration

#

same for detonator

zealous pond
#

Scorch is fun if people whine about it.

high current
#

Yeh I feel like detonator and scorch shot should have afterburn duration proportional to splash damage. And maybe buff detonator splash range a bit to give it a reason to exist over scorch shot

soft lynx
#

my biggest gripe with the scorch shot is the same as any movement inhibiting weapon: it's just terrible to be on the other end of it

livid oracle
#

det is already pretty much strictly better than scorch

high current
#

Honestly the juggle is a minor gripe imo

livid oracle
#

det is better if youre playing with at least 2 brain cells

high current
#

Detonator is only better at clearing doorway stickies and shooting high ground. Everything else the scorch shot is just easier to use so you can use your 2 brain cells elsewhere

#

I guess also det jumping, but that’s pretty niche

unborn pecan
#

I think the ultimate tf2 balance patch would be to redirect tf2 installs to a good game like paladins

livid oracle
#

ppl complain a lot about the scorch 2 hits but like i dont think ive ever been hit by it other than literally from behind

summer steeple
high current
#

The 2 hits happen a lot to snipers, because if you’re stationary it’s basically guaranteed. Otherwise I guess you’d have to be holding W at the pyro shooting the scorch.

zealous pond
#

Paladins is kind of fun.

high current
#

It can happen in other situations but it has to be a specific angle

zealous pond
#

Better than Overwatch.

left sand
#

the new fix tf2 is funny

unborn pecan
left sand
#

why they are doing it on memorial day weekend is beyond me

unborn pecan
#

Every valve employee is too busy revving up their grills

left sand
#

its so funny no one is gonna see it

livid oracle
#

#killtf2

high current
#

This weekend is just stage 1. It’s 3 stages apparently

#

I guess June 2nd is the actual date? Idk

summer steeple
#

stage 1. complain
stage 2. complain
stage 3. cry

left sand
#

making the event more exhausting?

#

i just think its really like

#

if only they had a pointed direct message

#

but its just fix tf2, fix the bots

high current
#

They tried to make it more clear but the only video I saw was like “this is stage 1, I’ll release a video on stage 2 when we get there”

livid oracle
#

lets do a #killtf2 event on may 30

left sand
#

like just ask like

#

"please finish steam trust"

#

you promised it in 2019

#

finish steam trust, and then implement it in tf2

unborn pecan
#

The ultimate way to fix bots is to remove tf2 on linux duh

summer steeple
#

we need to ask something attainable for valve, something like "please make tf2 a perfect utopia with 0 issues or bugs whatsoever"

unborn pecan
#

Like, please add dougie into tf2

high current
#

Eh. I understand the somewhat vague slogan of “fix tf2”. It’s just the hook that can go trending on Twitter. I think it’s a well intentioned movement that is currently being executed pretty badly, and I don’t see it gaining as much traction as the original savetf2. But I’m still going to support it on the off chance it does

unborn pecan
#

Or, you could be pessimistic about it

livid oracle
#

i have no real opinion on it any way or the other

high current
#

True, I could be pessimistic about it then complain when banned YouTuber name (cringe) is pessimistic about it because I’m the only one who gets to be pessimistic about it🤠

left sand
#

testimony

livid oracle
#

LOL

potent wolf
#

lmao

high current
next nymph
# livid oracle \#killtf2

unironically I think that'd be more likely to work. Like literally just "i dont even care anymore. Pull the plug already" shows disappointment way better than another "pretty please fix this game, again"

Not that "the community showing disappointment" is going to lead to anything or tell valve anything they dont already know

left sand
summer steeple
#

LMAO

livid oracle
#

lMfao

left sand
#

a whole page dedicated to explaining the mechanics

summer steeple
#

valve has never played their game before

livid oracle
#

is there a paragraph explaining how scoping works (links the sniper Arch video)

potent wolf
#

@left sand link the doc

unborn pecan
#

I think badly written papers often feel the need to explain everything

left sand
unborn pecan
#

Probably cause they are highschool level writers

left sand
#

Valve employees, take note, people say megascatterbomb is a pedophile

next nymph
left sand
#

we need to fix tf2

unborn pecan
#

Like have some faith in your reader

left sand
#

this just like

#

idk this is written like a 4 year old

livid oracle
#

i still think bots would've been gone in like 2 months years ago if the community didnt react to them like they did

left sand
#

like this is just shoddy writing

#

its like a discord chat put into a doc

livid oracle
#

bot hosters have always just been a tiny handful of attention seekers

next nymph
#

your audience is longtime tf2 players and (to a lesser extent) developers. Do these people need to hear the basic description of the sniper

summer steeple
left sand
summer steeple
#

like the cathook repo was taken down because they got bored

left sand
#

idk what this is about

summer steeple
#

they didn't care anymore

high current
#

It’s weird because I’m pretty sure a number of these YouTubers are in college or college educated. And I know even in the US college system you learn not to over explain in a paper lol

left sand
#

there is literally nothing in this document taht explains anything

livid oracle
#

literally

left sand
#

and the website is down

livid oracle
#

just make them bored

hoary geyser
#

do people think that valve thinks people are making up the bot problem?

potent wolf
small sirenBOT
#

*do people think that

valve thinks people are making

up the bot problem?*

- mederp
high current
#

There are also YouTubers directly saying not to boycott financially, so yeh the execution of this is not good.

summer steeple
#

no people think that valve has been deliberately ignoring them

unborn pecan
summer steeple
#

even though valve has actively worked to improve the bot issue

high current
#

Have they?

left sand
unborn pecan
#

Yup

livid oracle
unborn pecan
#

Another pootis W

summer steeple
# high current Have they?

yes? they can't name copy anymore, they can't crash servers anymore, there now can be 1 concurrent vote per team rather than per server

livid oracle
#

like i keep seeing ppl say cheater bots outnumber players like 8 to 1

hoary geyser
summer steeple
#

there have been missteps (limiting f2p voice commands even though none of the bots are f2p)

#

but there have been improvements

high current
next nymph
# summer steeple no people think that valve has been deliberately ignoring them

theres a huge portion of gamers (in general) that seems to view developers as incompetent and unaware of anything about games, especially their own games. Like the people who see "I think this is an issue" and "this perceived issue has not been fixed yet" and the only possible conclusions they can think of are "the developers must be unaware of their own game" or that they're less competent than random non-developers or etc

summer steeple
#

i'm not saying that valve is doing a good job, but i hate when people act like valve has done absolutely nothing

#

like the game used to be actually nigh unplayable

#

now its just... sort of unplayable

high current
#

I think the criticism is less “valve has done literally nothing” and more “valve is just throwing bread and circuses”

languid haven
livid oracle
#

why would you care about that

formal dew
#

eric needs to hire a private eye to get dirt on some security specialists to cajole them into working on tf2

livid oracle
#

it's for attention

#

we already went over this

next nymph
#

i didnt know megascatterbomb voiced the soldier

livid oracle
#

if u care about it then you lost already

languid haven
# livid oracle it's for attention

that's pretty obvious, i was just mentioning it cause the person doesn't really seem to matter without evidence or a very high amount of suspicion.

next nymph
formal dew
#

the specialists are already hired by valve but are blocked from working on tf2 by the steam team

livid oracle
#

its because its attention seekers

#

do you still not get it

#

like theyre putting them out in his own discord

languid haven
#

that wasn't my point, my point was on saying something like that for it to even be close to believable regardless true or false.

livid oracle
#

it's to piss him off

#

it doesnt have to be believable it's just to piss him off

next nymph
#

does it even need to piss anyone off? Just a "look at me, I'm saying shit"

languid haven
livid oracle
#

and they keep doing it because he's responsive to them

potent wolf
languid haven
formal dew
#

here's the solution, integrate the inane mym xp system to all online games of tf2 instead of just matchmaking games, and lock accounts out of both casual and comp matchmaking until they get a certain level of ranks from playing on community servers, this would require a bit of a revival of classic quickplay but with more stringent valve approval tokens so that only servers with default gameplay cvars and no monetization can get em

livid oracle
#

how about put players that have 500000% as much reports and 500000% as much votekicks as the average player in the same servers together

next nymph
livid oracle
#

it would also be cool if they also put them with players who have the same ip address as 31 other identically-named players with accounts created minutes from each other

crisp cedar
next nymph
crisp cedar
orchid sorrel
spice jewel
#

so

#

another year another savetf2??

crisp cedar
#

what do you have to save

spice jewel
#

my sanity

crisp cedar
#

let it not occupy your mind

spare obsidian
#

tf2 fans saving their mental health again? lest goo

formal dew
#

the most fun you can have online

spice jewel
#

so whats gonna happen june 3rd

crisp cedar
#

nothing

#

ever happens

hoary geyser
#

I hope Valve doesn't respond, because then maybe they'll stop trying to do this

#

probably won't happen, but I can wish

spice jewel
#

the summer update will release and everybody will get blued balled from valve and say "THEY LISTNED THEY FIXED Tf2!!!!"

livid oracle
#

@crisp cedar tweet this:
we should hunt down and kidnap valve employees and torture them to death with power tools #savetf2 #fixtf2

stuck locust
#

then once you get an email from valve's lawyers, make another tweet about how valve hates the tf2 community

livid oracle
spice jewel
left sand
#

Here's all that Valve has done for the game since #SaveTF2 (doesn't include everything, just notable things the community knew about)

Engine updates

  • 64-bit update
  • Fixed network edicts being used for server-side-only entities
  • Updated mat_picmip to allow values below -1
  • Fixed an occasional lag spike when showing the kill cam for some players
  • Fixed precached particles not being deleted across map changes

Bot Fixes

  • Added Steam Datagram Relay to prevent DDoS attacks
  • Updated vote system
    • Both teams can have a kick vote running at the same time
    • Can have a global vote running at the same time as a kick vote
    • Fixed sometimes not being able to vote on maps at the end of the round
  • Fixed an exploit related to clearing the in-game text chat
  • Fixed being able to change names during a matchmaking game
  • Fixed how servers send disconnect reasons to clients
  • Fixed how bots use various functionality in the game to communicate with each other (bot immunity)
  • Fixed many crash/overflow exploits
  • Added a game server setting, "net_chan_limit_msec", which allows server operators to limit amount of processing time the game server can spend on processing packets for each client per tick. Clients that send packets causing server CPU processing time to exceed configured number of milliseconds will be kicked from
  • Fixed not being able to kick MvM Spectators

Exploit Fixes

  • Fixed an exploit where players could use sv_cheats on secure servers
  • Fixed an exploit where a Spy could disguise and create an invisible bullet blocking shield at their feet
  • Updated func_nobuild entity with a new setting to support destroying buildings within its perimeter when activated

Gameplay Fixes

  • Fixed projectiles sometimes colliding with teammates too early/late
  • Fixed the Spy's feigned deaths with the Dead Ringer not showing up in the matchmaking quick team status bar
  • Fixed some HUD images being blurry when using low texture settings
  • Fixed an exploit where dispensers could heal through glass on some maps
  • Fixed an exploit with the Huntsman in which a player could change loadout to negate the speed debuff when charged
  • Fixed an exploit where players could teleport back to their own spawn by changing loadout/class while touching the other team's No Entry gate
  • Added a game server setting, "tf_fall_damage_disablespread", to disable random fall damage (default: 0)
  • Fixed lag compensation when melee-ing teammates
  • Fixed not being able to hit a player's hitbox if it extends outside the player's bounding box during an animation
  • Fixed the Iron Bomber's projectile collision size not matching other projectile collision sizes
  • Fixed The Shortstop shove showing as self-inflicted damage
  • Fixed Mini-Sentry guns not triggering damage alerts in the HUD
  • Fixed Medi Gun charges expiring too early if a server forces add_uber_time
  • Fixed Übercharge charge rate and duration upgrade not working for the Vaccinator
  • Fixed the Spy being able to disguise after picking-up the intelligence

Bug Fixes

  • Fixed %killername% and other placeholder names sometimes showing up on the kill cam and stats screen
  • Fixed some players seeing [unknown] for their player name
  • Fixed jiggle bones rendering in the loadout and item previews
  • Fixed broken transparency on cosmetics
  • Fixed some view model draw animations not using the snap command
  • Updated item schema and localization files with community fixes
  • Fixed headshot animations sometimes playing at map origin
  • Fixed missing polygon on Pyro's finger
  • Fixed clipped text in the Mann vs. Machine loot list screen
  • Fixed some attribute descriptions being cut off in the Item Pickup dialog
  • Fixed players not igniting after being shot when the map has applied the TF_COND_GAS condition
  • Fixed not preserving the player's current angles when the map has applied the TF_COND_HALLOWEEN_KART condition
  • Fixed duplicate reload sound entries in the tf_weapon_flaregun_revenge weapon script
#

Engine updates

  • Implemented VScript
  • Added the -vulkan command line option to render the game with Vulkan
  • Added -unrestricted_maxplayers to raise the maxplayer count to 100 (feature is unsupported and not recommended)
  • Added support for custom sounds, soundscripts, soundscapes, navmeshes and particles in workshop maps
  • Raised the particle system limit to 8192
  • Added the ability to change the skybox dynamically using the skybox_swapper entity or SetSkyboxTexture
  • Implemented support for func_monitor and cameras
  • Added point_worldtext, an entity that can show text dynamically, with support for multiple SDF (signed distance field) fonts, multiple colors and a rainbow mode
  • Deleted some unused Steam API queries to improve client perf
  • Fixed a bug where some particles were not the using correct particle types on clients
  • Fixed a bug where custom replacement materials in a map could persist to other maps
  • Fixed embedded workshop map soundscripts not being loaded on clients
  • Fixed custom particle overrides not being reloaded on servers without sv_pure
  • Fixed packed replacement materials/textures/models in a custom map could leak into other maps or rendering as wireframe
  • Changes to help improve load times
  • Fixed broken lighting for viewmodels in tight spaces
  • Fixed missing normal map and variables for Festivized weapons

Bot Fixes

  • Fixed a server crash related to multiple Heavies spam firing their weapons
  • Fixed the Mann vs. Machine upgrade panel closing after receiving a matchmaking party invite
  • Fixed an exploit related to uploading invalid custom decals that would crash other clients

Exploit Fixes

  • Fixed exploit on pl_upward that allowed buildings to be built in an area that is later shut off from both teams
  • Fixed a server crash related to the Spy sapping buildings
  • Added check to URLLabel to prevent invalid URLs
  • Fixed exploit related to using the td_buyback command during Mann vs. Machine matches
  • Fixed an exploit related to using The Snack Attack to block the movement of other entities
  • Fixed an exploit related to the ConTracker and being able to move/shoot while it's deployed
  • Added check to make Mann vs. Machine invaders immune to pushback while leaving their spawn
  • Fixed using the extendfreeze client command to continue spectating enemy players after being killed

Gameplay Fixes

  • Exposed several movement related ConVars
  • Added the ability to pass parameters and delay to MvM populator actions
  • Added support for custom MvM upgrade files packed into the map
  • Fixed lag compensation when friendly fire is enabled
  • Fixed some instances of syringes being invisible around corners and in transitions between water and air (both directions)
  • Fixed syringes triggering false hits on the client when minimal view models are enabled or a custom view model FOV is set
  • Fixed The Original using the default reload sound instead of the intended sound
  • Fixed entities being considered static props after long server times
  • Added check to ensure bullet effects are not duplicated
  • Add ConVars to control Mann vs. Machine team limits on community servers
  • Added SetStepHeight and SetMaxJumpHeight inputs to the base_boss entity
#

Bug Fixes

  • Updated the tf_logic_cp_timer entity so it can also be used for team RED
  • Fixed Hat unusual effects not showing up on Unusual Caps in the loadout and item previews
  • Fixed trigger_add_or_remove_tf_player_attributes not interacting well with the status of other attributes
  • Fixed trigger_add_or_remove_tf_player_attributes not updating player speed correctly
  • Added a spawnflag to point_hurt to bypass Übercharge
  • Fixed the match status HUD not being hidden during freezecam screenshots
  • Improved compile time with VRAD
  • Updated 'maps *' console command to show workshop maps
  • Updated the Create Server menu to show workshop maps
  • Fixed some point_camera visibility issues
  • Updated winter cosmetic cases to use a winterized sound when opening
  • Fixed a memory leak when firing syringes as Medic
  • Fixed Stat Clock cancelling out ÜberCharge and self-illuminating materials on weapons using War Paints
  • Fixed the Engineer not being able to move for a short period of time after doing The High Five taunt
  • Fixed teleporter particle effects
  • Fixed not always hiding floating health bars when the player has the hide_enemy_health attribute
  • Fixed the Pyro's right hand c_model not drawing correctly
  • Fixed The Razorback not being displayed in the 3D HUD player model and the loadout preview
  • Fixed the Engineer's Destruction PDA using the wrong animation in the 3D HUD player model
  • Fixed a server crash related to PASS Time and the round timer at the end of a round
  • Maximum frames per second (FPS) are now capped at 400 instead of 300 by default.
#

This also doesn't include all the new content they faciliatated to be in the game, including:

  • TWO new gamemodes: Versus Saxton Hale and Zombie Infection
  • 47 new maps in all sorts of gamemodes and environments, some of which were staples or have become so
  • Halloween contracts for all the Scream Fortress events
  • Countless new cosmetics, unusual effects, taunts and war paints
#

For a 17 year old game, this is more than enough support! It's fucking unheard of!
And there's community servers! Which many games do NOT get at all

This has all been done in 2 years while Valve still delivers huge updates to their main games like CS2, Dota 2, maintains the Steam Deck, launched a new Steam client, and is working on several unannounced games.

livid oracle
#

coms doesnt want me in the screenshot its over

formal dew
#

eric should be a real one and silently remove comic 7 from the website to see the reaction

livid oracle
#

the kind of revival of community servers is neat

#

mym like killed so many of them

#

like almost entirely because of the ui

spice jewel
#

im with the idea of kidnapping valve employees and torturing them with the power of #savetf2

livid oracle
#

making the community tab more prominent + better ways to sort servers would be an update i'd want the most

spice jewel
#

community servers need a queue

formal dew
#

there already is one

crisp cedar
#

called quickplay

formal dew
#

the other server ui that no one uses

spice jewel
#

wait what

left sand
#

simplified list

#

its actually insane how much support valve gives TF2

spice jewel
#

thats new to me

left sand
#

the only thing they need to do is Steam Trust and theyre probably not very comfortable at the moment because of whats going on with cheating in CS2

spice jewel
#

how do i join the queue

formal dew
left sand
#

so they have to know they can fix it in CS2 which is the only game with steam trust already

livid oracle
#

i'd like a dedicated vanillaish list but there isnt really a way to punish servers for marking their server as vanilla when it isnt

left sand
#

they were working on that

#

and would also allow contracts

livid oracle
#

i guess thats always been kind of an issue when tf2 was mostly running off of community servers

left sand
#

but it didnt get done

livid oracle
left sand
#

but still, i dont like using this word but the amount of entitlement

#

its insane

#

the game is not unplayable

#

and its 17 years old

#

so like

#

idk what do you want

spare obsidian
#

i think you should make a post about this, you're like the only one who can properly think

livid oracle
#

the game is currently more playable than it was 6 years ago imo

left sand
#

literally theres been pretty much every competitive gameplay issue addressed

#

in terms of bugs/exploits

#

not game balance

#

performance issues are pretty much entirely addressed

#

bot issue has been supressed quite a lot

#

like what else is it that people were asking for before they loved the game again

#

the real reason they do any of this is because they want 2011 to happen again

#

like multiple major valve driven updates every year

#

they think whining will get valves attention in a way which will make them work on an old game again

#

which uses a decade old engine

livid oracle
#

im assuming this was kinda triggered by the relatively recent zestvid?

left sand
#

and has outdated game design

#

probably

crisp cedar
#

most definitely

left sand
#

im still gonna work on like

#

my player counter

#

because the video is blatantly wrong

unborn pecan
#

z3sty is so stinky

spice jewel
#

him making a 10 minute video just about a pyro cosmetic with ears is so fucking funny to me

potent wolf
#

more specifically the casual data

livid oracle
spice jewel
#

god maybe we should kill tf2 and burn it

high current
spice jewel
#

add madcap

high current
#

Add fully nude cosmetics. Let me show off my original in its full glory

next nymph
livid oracle
#

why is there like such a large number of players that know how to join community servers but exclusively play casual anyway because they've heard its impossible to enjoy the game without random shotgun spread or whatever

#

a large chunk of players are on like

#

casual 2fort

#

there's fucktons of 24/7 2fort servers

#

go there?

cursive peak
#

I've seen plenty who think community servers are either Uncletopia or allcrit rtd lowgrav dm_minecraft.

wild grove
languid haven
wild grove
high current
languid haven
#

that custom mvm server seemed to disappear too, it was so damn fun i miss it!

wild grove
#

Fair, I enjoy the vanilla styled missions with new bots and stuff.

high current
#

I only play vanilla MvM because I have a gambling addiction and I like gold

small sirenBOT
#

*Fair, I enjoy the

vanilla styled missions

with new bots and stuff.*

- woshee
languid haven
#

it was like uber upgrades if it were good

spice jewel
#

reddit gold

languid haven
#

they don't even really use good lighting anyways.

wild grove
#

That cosmetic tho is just plain nasty, not even halloween restricts would save it.

crisp cedar
#

please more sfm furry porn

languid haven
crisp cedar
#

waiter

wild grove
spice jewel
#

stop making stuff in sfm it gives you brain damage

cursive peak
#

I've heard the guy who made the Holy Mackerel re-used the jigglebones from the horse dick stock Bat mod.

languid haven
unborn pecan
#

insane sentence

languid haven
wild grove
cursive peak
#

I mean, the dildo it was based on was called Thor.

spice jewel
#

its a "whatever works i guess" thing

languid haven
#

hat about the hamshank?

wild grove
unborn pecan
#

I found it on game banana

#

it's not horse

#

?

#

idk

#

still weird

cursive peak
#

I don't think it's on Gamebanana anymore.

unborn pecan
#

618 Downloads

#

It is steamworks

wild grove
#

why would it leave gamebanana? It's a historic relic

languid haven
potent wolf
unborn pecan
wild grove
#

Someone should remake it so it reskins the holy mackerel, has war paint, festivizer support, and is casual compatible trollfig

spice jewel
wild grove
languid haven
cursive peak
#

The version on Gamebanana is a reupload, not the original.

spice jewel
#

whats the best class in the game

cursive peak
#

You first have to define what "best class" even means.

livid oracle
cursive peak
#

Let another studio handle TF2.

potent wolf
#

shut tf2 down

livid oracle
potent wolf
#

@livid oracle glub

crisp cedar
#

let us have it

#

then well do it

livid oracle
#

heart the replied msg first

potent wolf
#

no

crisp cedar
#

these are our terms

#

this one first

#

the other one after

livid oracle
#

no

high current
languid haven
eternal haven
#

I thought valve was worth more than that for some reason

#

I mean I know its privately traded and whatnot

#

but still

cursive peak
#

EA tried to buy Valve once. Gabe told them they'd rather die as a studio than sell.

left sand
#

valve already has contractors

#

on like p much all their other games

#

the problem is with like tf2

#

its an outdated valve specific engine for the most part

#

so like

#

its very limited who could work on it

#

mostly source engine modders trollfig

drowsy marlin
#

I think the biggest problem with TF2 gamers is that they want their game to be relevant and mainstream. Since it's not there will be many people that will cry in their bubble.

#

TF2 is a great game. I still play it because it's fun :)

left sand
#

this is the slogan

#

wow

#

they just got a whole 64-bit port

#

how is it slang

#

its LITERALLY called casual

potent wolf
#

give it a week

#

literally everyone will have forgotten about this

left sand
#

okay i will admit

#

this website is very well written

#

much better than the document

slim terrace
# left sand how is it slang

Someone a bit unfamiliar with the term casual server might just say "let's join a game" or "queue for a game" and isn't aware there's strict "casual" and "competitive" servers. Just games.

left sand
#

idk, thats almost literally every game

slim terrace
#

Like someone who plays rainbow six siege doesn't join a casual server, they play unranked. (or quick play i don't know)

left sand
#

and it shouldnt be called "slang"

slim terrace
#

etc for other games

left sand
#

its just the name

#

should be "noun"

slim terrace
#

You right

#

What website are you seeing that from btw? Just woke up

potent wolf
slim terrace
#

Thanks

tacit flare
#

It's simple, Valve pays Mcoms several billions and they assume direct control.

orchid sorrel
#

Put me in charge i will add the pikmin cosmetic and do nothing else

next nymph
eternal haven
#

Do you guys think there will be any more tf2 for mac?

potent wolf
#

no

eternal haven
#

I liked the mac version because the binaries had symbols

potent wolf
#

tf2 on mac won't be getting any more updates

high current
#

In fairness the document is apparently a press pack, so it’s designed to explain the situation to gaming journalists that have never touched a keyboard in their life

high current
# left sand they just got a whole 64-bit port

Most of the tf2ubers also use default interp settings. So I don’t think many realize how big 64-bit was. Which in fairness, its patch notes didn’t do much to hype up. They could have called it a major update and people would have been frothing at the mouth, but it was like a single bullet point in patch notes

#

I definitely appreciated it, and I’m not trying to say it wasn’t a big deal. Just valve really could have made 64 bit whatever they wanted it to be perceived as, and it was just a bullet point so a lot of these guys were probably like “whoa they added discord detection”

unborn pecan
#

Your only option is to use crossover

crisp cedar
left sand
left sand
#

people were waiting for a performance patch since like 2015

summer steeple
left sand
#

none of valve's games really support mac

tough locust
#

just 9 years later

high current
# left sand people were waiting for a performance patch since like 2015

Yeh and it was 1.5 bullet points. I’m saying they could have made a banner for it and released a shitty cosmetic case and called it a major update. But nothing about that patch not screams “big sexy performance update” unless you have the technical knowledge to know how big of a deal that was

summer steeple
#

ye valve mac support has been barely there since forever

left sand
#

well they had to rush it out because of like

#

the decal crash exploit

tough locust
#

the objector bug

summer steeple
#

easier to just push staging then try and figure out how to only push one crash fix

tough locust
#

im not complaining im glad we're on 64 bit now instead of having to wait for the summer, shoutouts to the people who exploited the game

left sand
#

cs2 doesnt support mac, half life alyx doesnt support mac

small sirenBOT
#

*cs2 doesnt

support mac, half life alyx

doesnt support mac*

- mcoms
left sand
#

dota 2 barely supports mac

high current
#

I mean yeh I like that we got it when we did. But if they had wanted to they could have made it almost as big of a deal as CS2 (almost being the key word). I mean technically speaking we lost less than CSGO did. But the reality is that we all it was was 1.5 bullet points, of course people are going to overlook it

left sand
#

well it was no where near cs2

#

also they did the same for vscript and stuff

livid oracle
#

coms what are your thoughts on mac

left sand
#

theyd rather everything speak for itself

summer steeple
#

to the average user it doesn't change very much

left sand
#

like, 64-bit is gonna expand edicts and stuff eventually

unborn pecan
#

I think Macs have cool hardware, are overprived, and the software support for games it isn't there

high current
left sand
#

vscript spoke for itself very effectively

#

it helped launch VSH

#

which was the biggest thing for the game

livid oracle
#

erm gmod is not tf2 stop the slop

left sand
#

even more than JI

livid oracle
#

wait i already did this bit earlier

potent wolf
#

people will always find something new to complain about

languid haven
left sand
orchid sorrel
#

Allo everyone its me monkeh we must shtop the shlop also upbote my 500 brown and gold war paints thanks

livid oracle
#

what would be the ideal OS

left sand
#

also mac has managed to have good laptops forever

livid oracle
#

like imagine you had near infinite resources

left sand
#

nothing comes close to a macbook

livid oracle
#

and influence i guess

left sand
#

well idk

potent wolf
left sand
#

thatd be a very very different question and have a very meaningless answer

#

no linux sucks to its core

#

if i had infinite resources id make a new kernel

livid oracle
#

trolled into answering the question due to the mention of linux

unborn pecan
#

"i could definitfly do that thing better"

left sand
#

well

#

i didnt really answer the question

#

im just excluding the possibility of reusing anything

small sirenBOT
#

*im just excluding

the possibility of

reusing anything*

- mcoms
left sand
#

because if you had the ideal OS with infinite resources you wouldnt reuse anything really

livid oracle
#

casual servers i mean

languid haven
# livid oracle what would be the ideal OS

a linux distro that is setup for you and isn't unstable. good fucking luck finding one that does both. just updating could freeze, crash things and if it freezes when updating your kernel you're gonna have to jump through a hoop or 5 to fix it.

unborn pecan
languid haven
unborn pecan
#

😭

potent wolf
#

lol

unborn pecan
#

Bro I am an arch user

#

but Fedora is way better for normal people

#

even then

#

it's still linux

potent wolf
#

linux sucks steamhapp

unborn pecan
potent wolf
#

nope

next nymph
livid oracle
#

i hope the christmas ph map makes it in on the summer update trollfig

small sirenBOT
#

*i hope the christmas

ph map makes it in on

the summer update*

- crawl space
tough locust
#

daily linux discussion in the thread

potent wolf
#

it's also a linux megathread

left sand
#

but edicts would enable maps to do cool stuff

crisp cedar
#

linux users fading out of existence when they get ignored

tough locust
small sirenBOT
#

*i dont care either

way but id love to see the

outcry and rage lol*

- pilso
languid haven
# next nymph puppy linux

no that's pop os. genuinely the worst distro, ubuntu has incompatibilities varying older and newer version but worse some you can't compile with so i said fuck it and switched.

next nymph
#

sounds like someone should try out puppy linux

slender nexus
unborn pecan
#

B4nny to save the day

tough locust
#

save tf after getting 10 gorillion dollars by giving our names and emails to a data broker

grim parcel
#

also the answer is mac

#

if you want something close enough to linux but good

#

that's your answer

grim parcel
grim parcel
eternal haven
#

I've never really understood that

small sirenBOT
#

*Why would the decal

patch be related to the

rest of the update?*

- mysterious_eagle_46873
left sand
#

because it was too hard for them to rebranch a non 64 bit

small sirenBOT
#

*because it was too

hard for them to rebranch a

non 64 bit*

- mcoms
left sand
#

because it was already staged into main

eternal haven
#

I see

broken haven
jagged pawn
#

so true

summer steeple
#

well this is a new one, demo is frozen even though its not paused

image.png
#

all ents are frozen, sounds still play

grim parcel
#

#fixtf2

summer steeple
#

also god I hate demo playback in tf2 so much

#

like oh yes it is such a good experience to press the "goto" button, wait for like 10 seconds, and then have every single voice chat message from map start to that point play at once

languid haven
# grim parcel also the answer is mac

the problem with mac is not whether 3rd party supports it, it's whether it supports 3rd parties. clearly it's worse than having to deal with rust.

languid haven
# broken haven

isn't that the guy who flashed his cock on stream to kids and had to fight his own instincts to not do it for a second time twice?

potent wolf
languid haven
#

"OP" ew is discord just becoming reddit now?

unborn pecan
grim parcel
grim parcel
# unborn pecan Wsl2

wsl is actually a lot of fun. probably the most often way i use linux now since it pretty much solved by dual boot reboot problem

#

(though i still have my nixos install to usually test stuff and play around)

languid haven
#

ok the problem with rust is it takes a long time to compile but if apple forces you to validate everytime to compile something, how the fuck do you test it for bugs? who is ever that confident it will just work?

grim parcel
#

what

potent wolf
potent wolf
languid haven
potent wolf
#

rust compile times are honestly not that bad now

grim parcel
#

i think they've improved like 40% in the last few months

#
  • cranelift
languid haven
grim parcel
#

what are you compiling that takes more than like 5 mins max

#

are you on gentoo or something?

unborn pecan
#

For me, rust linking always takes the longest

languid haven
#

wait why would the distro matter in compile time?