ok, I'm gonna postpone the bug report until I find out why, but I'm probably gonna leave that until after I benchmark the beta some more
#Team Fortress 2 Megathread - winter is the most chill time of year
limpid panther
also, there is another bug where the steam ovelay crashes while tf2 launches and steam as a whole cashes
potent wolf
ok, I'm gonna postpone the bug report until I find out why, but I'm probably gon...
make the bug report with the instuctions you gave me and attach the demo
that way devs can repro it
ah it's probably reloading matsys (we all love matsys reloads)
limpid panther
also, there is another bug where the steam ovelay crashes while tf2 launches and...
journalctl
limpid panther
make the bug report with the instuctions you gave me and attach the demo
are you sure? Shouldn't I try to isolate the root cause first and not involve a whole custom .vpk in the bugreport?
potent wolf
are you sure? Shouldn't I try to isolate the root cause first and not involve a ...
you don't need to include the vpk? it's reproducible with only the demo
reset config and playdemo like you said
and it crashes the game
limpid panther
you don't need to include the vpk? it's reproducible with only the demo
uhm. ok then
potent wolf
why would they need the vpk?
potent wolf
oh
i think you misunderstood
if i reset the game by removing comfig vpks and cfg, and verify game files, then play the demo, it crashes
if i play it with comfig, it doesn't
limpid panther
if i play it with comfig, it doesn't
yes, precisely. I though it would be useful information to mention that
potent wolf
that's all they need to know
just play the demo on a fresh install, and the game crashes
limpid panther
but I then thought it would be best to narrow it down to "if I do these commands specifically, the game doesn't crash"
potent wolf
🤷♀️
limpid panther
just play the demo on a fresh install, and the game crashes
ok, it you say so
potent wolf
on an unrelated note
i'm porting my convar dumper thingy to x64 for gametracking
and i got it working
but oh my god what was i thinking when i wrote the original thing
the code is so bad
limpid panther
but oh my god what was i thinking when i wrote the original thing
me every few days
potent wolf
HAHAHA i am now implementing dynamic_cast_at_home
runic pagoda
Never forget asking yourself why you named a variable something and why it won't work later because you're very epic and used a similar naming scheme for another important task
next nymph
i never name my variables something
runic pagoda
I name all my variables after ancient Chinese rulers based on how often I think it'll break down
kind falcon
you mean bust it down
kind falcon
@next nymph peep the vgui
next nymph
looking swagge
dreamy marlin
Do we know if there will be any changes to the mastercomfig presets because of 64bit/vulkan? Like for example, I heard there were performance improvements to HUD_player_model=on, so it could make sense to enable it on presets lower than high. Anything like that planned?
livid oracle
youre fucked up and twisted
languid haven
i shall make my gt1030 cry and fry by tf2 being the executor
languid haven
Also i'm sure the game can handle the performance hit also due to the increase in stability.
summer steeple
to be completely honest, your gt1030 will probably be fine anyway since tf2 is so cpu bottlenecked
proper tangle
The best config for tf2 is a freaking x3d cpu
languid haven
to be completely honest, your gt1030 will probably be fine anyway since tf2 is s...
nah, stutters too much and lack of ram use as of now but with vulkan i get more fps on higher settings than on the 32bit one with lower settiings
the newer one definitely feels more playable and watchable. never played a game that had such stable and consistent framerate. or maybe this is the first time the lowest fps was about 50-75.
green tulip
after 64-bit comes out I can finally play Watergate without it crashing my game 4 times in a row
formal dew
Does the old ass speex codec work in the beta branch
limpid panther
I still can't get a proper demo for benchmarking grhhh
because valve servers are taking a shit
also every match is full of bots until we are finally able to fill a lobby
uncletopia São Paulo is not full so it isn't even an option
limpid panther
it's full now, nvm
now I just need a map with some water
oh, logwash has water
and it's what's being played
craggy ridge
@limpid panther
limpid panther
porra, eu fiquei lendo seu nome lá um monte de vezes enquanto jogava e nem me liguei q era tu
craggy ridge
adawdiajawi pior foi eu
eu fiquei lendo seu nome
"porra quem que é kenaj o nome é familiar"
e fiquei pensando e pensando e so fui me ligar em borneo
limpid panther
hsauhsuahsuhausha
limpid panther
I am finally able to just let it run without having to babysit
the only real problem is switching branches. There is seemingly no way to do that without using the steam UI
potent wolf
maybe download them manually using depotdownloader or something, and run them from there?
like having the builds side by side
limpid panther
like having the builds side by side
Yea, I mean, I can just chose the branch, copy the whole Team Fortress 2 folder and launch that one manually though sniper. But I would really rather have a way to tell steam to use the beta and launch it through there. To keep everything as much in a black box as possible. I
I can already launch games through terminal directly and have everything work fine. I just wanted to also have the option to do it through steam
left sand
the only real problem is switching branches. There is seemingly no way to do tha...
steam console doesnt support it?
thats basically steamcmd
potent wolf
can you access that console remotely?
left sand
yeah i think steam can take source style console launch args
only download_depot is available
limpid panther
steam console doesnt support it?
I looked into it but couldn't find one that did what I wanted
limpid panther
only download_depot is available
yea... :(
limpid panther
can you access that console remotely?
you can send commands through a terminal
kind falcon
@potent wolf pls investigate why the charging sound (stickybomb launcher) continues after death if m1 is hedl
limpid panther
<@394179512788844544> pls investigate why the charging sound (stickybomb launche...
@potent wolf you gonna let this guy boss you around?
kind falcon
why dont you say anything of that sort to wget
limpid panther
why dont you say anything of that sort to wget
because he already stands up to her:
#tech🤖 message
potent wolf
<@394179512788844544> pls investigate why the charging sound (stickybomb launche...
probably because it stops the sound after you fire the weapon
or something like that
formal dew
why are soldier weapons the only ones whose sounds cut off when you switch weps
languid haven
Make a bug report
potent wolf
but wheres the fun in that
formal dew
it's been a known bug for like 15 years
zealous pond
why are soldier weapons the only ones whose sounds cut off when you switch weps
Because he deserves it.
kind falcon
because he already stands up to her:
https://discord.com/channels/38908982824901...
reread my message agane
limpid panther
reread my message agane
still don't get it
in other news, I was planning on leaving both my laptop and desktop benchmarking overnight
completely forgot that you can't play 2 games at the same time in the same account
tacit flare
Is there any new TF2 copium available? I kinda ran out yesterday.
next nymph
at least we're not titanfall 2
crisp cedar
Is there any new TF2 copium available? I kinda ran out yesterday.
what are you hoping for
tacit flare
what are you hoping for
There's usually fascinating tipbits of information here, mainly involving TF2 actually recieving developments other than more unusuals to the point that the particle system is begging to be taken out back and shot.
I still find it funny that my unusual taunt makes peoples game lag. Funny in a depressing way, but still funny.
limpid panther
Is there any new TF2 copium available? I kinda ran out yesterday.
yes.
#1072696252162117752 message
(lower is better, since its frametime, not fps)
limpid panther
btw this is not just for linux, I just havent gotten to benchmarking windows yet
crisp cedar
this is hosted by jane btw
craggy ridge
/j or /srs
unborn pecan
hypnosis tf2 goes insane
craggy ridge
hypnosis tf2 goes insane
To latency in there is very good im adding it to favorites
tough locust
There's usually fascinating tipbits of information here, mainly involving TF2 ac...
i thought part of the 64 bit update was to help out the particle system from running out of space since the slots are getting filled with each coming year
heavy solarBOT
@tough locust has leveled up! (6 ➜ 7)
tough locust
waiting for the day that TF2 will run as smoothly as typical colors 2
summer steeple
probably will be posted on the tf2 blog when eric gets to it but
https://tf2maps.net/threads/major-contest-18-stack-the-deck.51757/
sonic folio
is there a reason why tf2 ragdolls now just stay in place sometimes
kind falcon
is there a reason why tf2 ragdolls now just stay in place sometimes
more likely thats something on your end than anything
sonic folio
no i meant like
you can see it on everyones sides
when you kill bind your ragdoll stays in place
like loses its momentum]
radiant merlin
when you killbind midair?
limpid panther
I've gotten such surprising results that I'm gonna have to double check it before I show the graphs
sonic folio
when you killbind midair?
yea
radiant merlin
yes that happens sometimes
livid oracle
reminder that you can CHEAT during setup time as demoman by launching your ragdoll through the gates to see into what the red team is setting up
left sand
ah yes this totally makes sense for networked entities
spare obsidian
please send the link to where this is, so i can laugth hard
formal dew
the github page on increasing the edict limit
livid oracle
real as fuck
radiant merlin
tf2 is so cooked 😭
spare obsidian
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3122211113&searchtext= i think this is the best thing someone could to to hydro
floral sandal
how is this bad advice? Not knowledgeable enough to understand why
left sand
dynamic lists exist in source
the whole point of the system is to have a fixed list
so that IDs and data structures have a limit which allows for lower memory usage, faster lookups, etc
potent wolf
...the higher the memory usage and file size.
huh?
livid oracle
> ...the higher the memory usage and **file size**.
huh?
maybe referring to demo files? idk
summer steeple
idk cause the list is in the dll itself or smth? thats how i'm interpreting the post
but also
its 13.5MB
potent wolf
idk cause the list is in the dll itself or smth? thats how i'm interpreting the ...
it's highly likely that it isn't going to waste file space since it's zero-initialized data
at least i assume it is zero-inited
/uninitialized
summer steeple
i'm not saying they're right, i'm just guessing wtf they mean
potent wolf
🤷♀️
jagged pawn
the fact that it's down on every metric is perhaps the best part. saw some worrying tests early on that suggested that average would be down but there were spikes, which I was hoping was just an effect of it being early in development. happy to see that that was correct
limpid panther
Here it is! Very impressive stuff!
- The demo used is of a 12v12 casual match on pier, with players wearing cosmetics (no unusuals, unfortunately). This demo was chosen because it has a little bit of everything: water, ragdolls, explosions, gibs, fire, things at different lods, cosmetics, etc.
- "high" and "low" correspond to the max and minimum graphical settings that you can set through in-game menus (except for anti-aliasing and blur, which were turned off for every test, but including advanced options like the hud playermodel)
- You saw that right:the x64 beta on high performs almost better than mastercomfig_low and better than low
- The SVG fametime data is averaged over 5ms
- You should open up the SVG file in you browser to easily scroll through the data. If you open it up in Illustrator similar programs you are gonna have a bad time.
- Looking at the frametime data you can see that the improvement is basically the same over the entire demo, this is probably because the demo itself is kind of homogeneous. Maybe I should make a more synthetic demo file to check out where most of the improvement actually lies
- Timedemo distorts the relative improvements between tests, so I'm not using that. Please read the notes under the graphs to understand the setup and options used
- I've included a video of the demo file. Don't mind the audio, OBS was messed up.
limpid panther
the fact that it's down on every metric is perhaps the best part. saw some worry...
what?
jagged pawn
?
limpid panther
I tried to send it but it said that it failed. Can you see a message from me befoer this last one?
jagged pawn
yes lol
I see both
discord is dumb sometimes
the first one is just this
second one has more written
ope now it's deleted LOL
limpid panther
yea, so there is no confusion
limpid panther
some other graphs I made to check the validity of the data:
I consider the big variance at the same pass for hl2_high and hl2_low to be a coincidence, because there is no reason I can think of for it to repeat at the same pass like that
languid haven
the fact running tf2_x64 on high is faster than the 32bit on low is pretty shocking
limpid panther
the fact running tf2_x64 on high is faster than the 32bit on low is pretty shock...
right?? this is what I meant when I said that I had gotten surprising results but wanted to double check.
spent the day double checking and could not find a problem that would invalidate the results
dreamy marlin
Here it is! Very impressive stuff!
- The demo used is of a 12v12 casual match on...
Am I reading this wrong or are you still on kernel 5.15? Isn't that like 2yrs+ out of date now?
potent wolf
Am I reading this wrong or are you still on kernel 5.15? Isn't that like 2yrs+ o...
LTS kernel
tough locust
the fact running tf2_x64 on high is faster than the 32bit on low is pretty shock...
its pretty sick it just goes to show how much the game is CPU limited on most GPUs, the performance bump gave headroom to run higher shadows and stuff since that's all done on the CPU IIRC, i just don't know if both are running on ToGL in this demo or if the 64 bit version runs vulkan by default on linux
potent wolf
it runs on vulkan by default
slender nexus
can't wait for tf2 steam deck to not perform like shit
tough locust
it runs on vulkan by default
:o the performance bumps could be cpu and gpu then kinda makes it hard to isolate one variable
dreamy marlin
LTS kernel
Gotcha, that certainly doesn't invalidate the results but I'm curious how much of a difference a more recent kernel would make. I think on PopOS I'm on 6.6.10
tough locust
Also isn't the fps_max capped at 300 on 32 bit and capped at 400 on 64 bit?
potent wolf
:o the performance bumps could be cpu and gpu then kinda makes it hard to isolat...
you can still run with opengl with the -gl launch option, but idk if kenaj tested that
dreamy marlin
Also isn't the fps_max capped at 300 on 32 bit and capped at 400 on 64 bit?
the tests were run with +fps_max 0
tough locust
okay i just thought it still hit the 300 and 400 fps limits even if u set fps_max to 0
potent wolf
iirc joshie has posted some screenshots with like 2000fps
tough locust
are there any 0.1% lows for frametimes to see peak framerates
tough locust
iirc joshie has posted some screenshots with like 2000fps
ohh i guess the 64 bitbranch removed the cap then
summer steeple
iirc there never was a real cap
its just that over 1000fps the game started breaking
limpid panther
ohh i guess the 64 bitbranch removed the cap then
there was never a real cap, the game would start to fast-forward at about 800fps and be more ponounced at 1000+ (in listen servers)
tough locust
ohh
limpid panther
in other servers you would notice it as prediction errors iirc
summer steeple
its why comfigs default fps limiter is 1000
potent wolf
in other servers you would notice it as prediction errors iirc
prediction is cheating! use your brain dude
slender nexus
has anyone tested the new x64 build on steam deck
if not is anyone interested in me doing it
potent wolf
has anyone tested the new x64 build on steam deck
if not is anyone interested i...
aren't there issues with it not launching at the moment?
slender nexus
i thought someone found a workaround for that but idk
potent wolf
if you can get it working it would be really cool to see how well it runs
slender nexus
imma test this later to see if it launches
frick
limpid panther
LTS kernel
yea, I thought it was fine since it's lts. Is it bad? Should I go to 6.6.10?
languid haven
prediction is cheating! use your brain dude
tf2's rockets use prediction to change rocket trajectory up close.
dreamy marlin
yea, I thought it was fine since it's lts. Is it bad? Should I go to 6.6.10?
It might improve the FPS a bit across all runs, but since we really only care about 32b ToGL vs. 64b Vulkan, don't think it matters that much for this specific test
livid oracle
tf2's rockets use prediction to change rocket trajectory up close.
thats not prediction
kind falcon
thats not prediction
they rebuild player movement in their brain and predict according to their projectile speed and possible player velocity and direction
potent wolf
yea, I thought it was fine since it's lts. Is it bad? Should I go to 6.6.10?
dunno, its probably fine though
radiant merlin
why is that door closed?
tough locust
https://tenor.com/view/jalen-hurts-jalen-hurts-meek-mill-i-used-to-pray-for-time...
real as fuck
if me circa 2018 saw that the optimization update was real hed be ecstatic
languid haven
Most people have just become cynical about tf2, they could've done this update at any time.
grim parcel
dead game paladins better
kind falcon
paladins 2
tough locust
Most people have just become cynical about tf2, they could've done this update a...
i mean not before they got joshie as a contractor there's no way eric smith wouldve wanted to do all of this
languid haven
That is true
summer steeple
https://fixvx.com/leds_yt/status/1758683690853404979?s=46&t=uQyRy4OmWQuvnxRYovTH...
shitty explanation, it doesn't somehow magically fix shadows appearing on the backside of walls (wtf is that even supposed to mean just say the other side of the wall), it just disables dynamic shadows on that wall completely, its a shitty hack
(also LED is a transphobe and is cringe)
next nymph
you mean they didn't have a perfect fix for shadow bleeding through walls, and then only used it on exactly two spots?
radiant merlin
not every wall has that problem
next nymph
yeah these two don't
paper sluice
(also LED is a transphobe and is cringe)
Wtf really?
I’ve seen some of their videos randomly but damn never knew that
small sirenBOT
summer steeple
I’ve seen some of their videos randomly but damn never knew that
#1072696252162117752 message
limpid panther
yeah these two don't
Jarate, I can't holy shit
how are you so clever, I am so fucking envious
zealous pond
I don't know why you'd even want the shadows through walls thing fixed.
radiant merlin
to be sure that the scout that preaimed me is actually wallhacking
formal dew
Team fortress 2 is perfect and feature complete
tacit flare
As in, Shadows aren't a problem when spawn wallhacks exist.
"Just don't camp outside spawn it's simple"
[Proceeds to take a level 3 teleporter to the middle of the map and have spawn wallhacks on for a good 10 seconds.]
paper sluice
I always feel bad and a little guilty when I use spawn outlines to kill a spy
Cuz like I’ll just track the dude through walls until it runs out lol
small sirenBOT
paper sluice
Looks so suspicious
cursive peak
I've called out so many Spies when the spawn wallhacks allowed me to see myself in another part of the map.
craggy ridge
if i apply a non tradeable paint to a misc
that misc will become non tradeable
but if i restore it so it has no paint
will it remain untradeable?
tough locust
i think the non tradable will still last until the paint was supposed to become tradable
languid haven
I always feel bad and a little guilty when I use spawn outlines to kill a spy
i don't, bastard shouldn't be stalking spawn doors.
paper sluice
tf2 has to have like
trolldier detection
and i was like hmm ill play something i dont play much
and played some trolldier got it
then every other server now is just trolldiers
like i never got them before
im trying to send my emoji image links
😢
next nymph
just say :compressed image of hideo kojima looking into the camera:
grim parcel
let us use markdown
potent wolf
never
tough locust
I always feel bad and a little guilty when I use spawn outlines to kill a spy
the outlines obviously have gameplay dvantages but i side with the oldheads too hard on this one I don't like all the stuff popping up when you spawn
grim parcel
mystic turtle
what ever will you do without markdown links
Like anyone needed them in the first place
Markdown is a construct for lazy web devs and GitHub users
Ok, JK, I use that for writing and as a base to be exported to PDF when working on some school assignments
potent wolf
Like anyone needed them in the first place
Markdown is a construct for lazy web ...
true, you should be writing pdfs manually
mystic turtle
yup
offtopic, but I'll be frank
I am too lazy to work with Word/Google Docs formatting
oh well
back to TF2 I guess
next nymph
true, you should be writing pdfs manually
i fiddled around with writing pdf's by hand. It actually went okay. I just had to hope my pdf reader was fine with me completely skipping half the "required" sections that weren't plaintext
potent wolf
you could probably get away with that
next nymph
it worked on firefox and chrome's builtin pdf reader
i didnt want to try it on more in case it stopped working
tough locust
there's a launch option for tf2 that's like -condump but properly logs everything but i can't rmemeber what it's called
tough locust
i think so thank u also is there a way to prevent Warning : Particle system (medicgun_beam_red_muzzle) using unassigned ControlPoint 1! from getting spammed every frame in the console
it was -condebug
broken haven
left sand
there's a launch option for tf2 that's like -condump but properly logs everythin...
-condebug
potent wolf
`-condebug`
too late 
languid haven
can someone verify if this works? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr_e0q3sDr4
seems like a potential oversite with versions
summer steeple
i'm gonna say not real because they're somehow playing from a magical game that has all of its content (including a custom hud) even though there are only 5 files in the tf folder, 2 of which are vpk directories and 2 of which are sound caches
languid haven
makes sense
summer steeple
altho looking at the code itself, I don't really see anything (i could be missing it) that actually prevents you from joining servers if the version is different aside from the version number in that file. I assume that in most cases the game might just crash if the difference between versions is too much and you try to force a connection, but in this case its possible that the 2 versions are similar enough that it won't
so it might be possible, but this video is sketchy as fuck
they also pause the recording several times, you can see them press the pause button on their crappy recording program lol
grim parcel
i'll try it
mystic turtle
so it might be *possible*, but this video is sketchy as fuck
Wait a minute
How is this thing, like, not triggering VAC or smth
bc steam notes the beta "cannot connect to public servers or matchmaking"
I kinda suspect VAC could be triggered by differing versions, I mean, it does flag Proton
Also, with what you said earlier, this only makes even more sense
How tf is everything working when this person's folder doesn't even have any important directories (most notably /custom and /cfg)?
potent wolf
I think you might also need a binary patch to get this working but idk for sure
@kind falcon ping
potent wolf
I hope you get banned on your main for this
potent wolf
skill issue
summer steeple
huh, I wonder if this is an x64 exclusive bug or if its just like
most of the time its not an actual like... issue
potent wolf
?
summer steeple
cause like there's no reason to run a different version of the game
potent wolf
probably the latter
grim parcel
what if joshie has been playing with dxvk for months
summer steeple
like most of the time the client either wouldn't be compatible with the server or you're just playing without a bugfix or something and will desync or just have a worse experience
grim parcel
playing this in a pub is pretty cool though, i actually have a decent idea of performance now
WAIT
@limpid panther I CAN GET A DEMO WITH COSMETICS
i think he wanted that right?
summer steeple
huge
potent wolf
you can get that with the public branch too
grim parcel
yeah but i thought old demos didn't work with this one?
grim parcel
vusaline on top
languid haven
i can't tell if this is a high effort shitpost or real.
potent wolf
fucking wifi...
languid haven
oh btw there was a change with airblasts in the 64bit version
left sand
i mean, it makes sense but i would strongly advise not to do this
free VAC and you know!
potent wolf
i mean, it makes sense but i would strongly advise not to do this
remember to do this on your main for best results
extra 20fps
left sand
oh btw there was a change with airblasts in the 64bit version
really?
potent wolf
oh yeah
potent wolf
bug i think
languid haven
seems intentional, smaller hitbox i think but idk how to do hitbox sv_cheats to check
potent wolf
grim parcel
i mean, it makes sense but i would strongly advise not to do this
im not
libfardso is
this is the same account i ended up playing cracked cs2 on by accident
potent wolf
by accident?
left sand
that airblast thing looks right to me
potent wolf
😿
left sand
in terms of like
how they designed it
you arent meant to ever be able to airblast someone up from a ground level by looking up
its intended for you to look down first then look up
grim parcel
why doesn't the resupply command work anymore :(
potent wolf
why doesn't the resupply command work anymore :(
your punishment for cheating
languid haven
its intended for you to look down first then look up
like flipping a burger
languid haven
more fps = cheating XD
potent wolf
hvh
spare obsidian
free VAC and you know!
has if VAC does something lol
it only triggers if you use poors man cheats
potent wolf
i wonder what using entirely different binaries from usual would do...
hmmmmmmmmmmm
really makes you think
languid haven
probably a desync and server would attempt to fix that so you'd probably be jittering back and forth.
potent wolf
no thats not what meant
as long as they're compatible there won't be any issues there
well, who knows what vac checks against
potent wolf
is it really a bug?
grim parcel
well
at the very least it's an unintended feature
since i don't think you're supposed to be able to use matchmaking when the beta says you can't use matchmaking
spare obsidian
i guess is the same method has to get into the MM servers without being added in?
spare obsidian
literally to get into a casual server without using the MM system
potent wolf
how is that related?
potent wolf
what??
spare obsidian
bro tf do you want more
potent wolf
64bit builds can't use matchmaking because the build id is different
small sirenBOT
potent wolf
if you change the build id it works
because you can now use the mm system
this isn't bypassing anything except for a version check
formal dew
what if 64 bit tf2 somehow revived the cone that ji airblast originally had in conjunction with the box
but then became just the box
radiant merlin
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/5522 this one?
it looks like if the airblast bbox was a cone again
languid haven
i loved the cone more
radiant merlin
according to the ji patch notes it should be a cone
formal dew
nerf to compensate for gas passer buff
spare obsidian
wtf pyro rewrok?
languid haven
nerf to compensate for gas passer buff <:trollfig:938154442484777111>
nah a revert
before jungle infero it was a cone and box i think
proper tangle
Just watched the 2h TF2 vs OW video and just got depression again
spare obsidian
why?
potent wolf
imo bug
radiant merlin
yeah
languid haven
is it not possible to check hitboxes in the 64bit version?
radiant merlin
i think you need to modify your client?
proper tangle
Cause it just hammered that the reason I'm not playing TF2 rn is because valve doesn't give a shit
radiant merlin
idk how sigsegv did it
spare obsidian
idk how sigsegv did it
server plugins iirc
potent wolf
client plugins!
proper tangle
While it continues to milk talent to get money from players
radiant merlin
ok
radiant merlin
While it continues to milk talent to get money from players
welcome to your doomer stage!
proper tangle
welcome to your doomer stage!
Oh no when I saw that everyone basically said "aight that's enough" when valve made the #savetf2 tweet as if that changed anything I already gave up
Occasionally jumping in on uncletopia but that was it
potent wolf
tf2 has got some pretty good updates recently
proper tangle
Some bug fixes, and vscript
potent wolf
vscript, 100 players, and now 64-bit
potent wolf
get over it
formal dew
there's tf_airblast_cray_debug
potent wolf
valve is not your friend
spare obsidian
"company wants to profit a game" what an unheard concept
formal dew
capitalism bad
spare obsidian
🤯
proper tangle
Apparently I'm not allowed to dislike the fact that one of my favorite games got ruined by negligence and make a comment about it. I'm not even making a tweet of campaigning, just made a coment
But aight I'll see myself out
summer steeple
it looks like if the airblast bbox was a cone again
wait did joshie change the fact that the sphere check and shit just does a box check anyway
potent wolf
Apparently I'm not allowed to dislike the fact that one of my favorite games got...
yeah it's against the rules you're going to be banned
summer steeple
Just watched the 2h TF2 vs OW video and just got depression again
tbh i'd rather an abandoned game that is good than a game that gets random changes for the hell of it and has no direction
spare obsidian
tbh i'd rather an abandoned game that is good than a game that gets random chang...
and owned by a company that has a dark history of sexual harrastment that dates way back and a ""journalist"" that knew all of this shi
just to sell a book
proper tangle
All I want is to be able to play without bots on casual
small sirenBOT
proper tangle
That's it
I was happier before 2018 when the game was way buggier than it is now
Now if I want to play I have to choose between high ping uncletopia or low ping uncletopia on select hours of the week when there's actual people playing on the 2 Brazilian servers
summer steeple
yeah thats fair
proper tangle
So, yeah, 100 player servers are a cool possible feature, vscript enabled cool possibilities but I can't enjoy them on casual because casual is unplayable due to a handful of teenagers with a credit card
spare obsidian
lets be realistic, is impossible to kill bots
they're like a hydra
cut one head two appears
radiant merlin
i know you are upset, i believe everyone is here, but these type of comments do nothing but disheart the people that are new to the game and still have things to discover
proper tangle
And yet, no other games faces this on this scale
summer steeple
they do
potent wolf
yes they do lol
proper tangle
You know what I'll stop, I'll just go play cyberpunk or whatever
summer steeple
CS has this issue, apex has this issue, titanfall 2 has this issue, i'm sure several cod games have this issue
spare obsidian
literally even fricking titanfall 2
and apex legends suffers this
heck even valorant
with a kernel anti cheat
left sand
valve needs to release steam trust
radiant merlin
that was announced for 2019 lol
summer steeple
its a good thing we're not in china then
spare obsidian
idk both human and computer anti cheats has proven to be flawleed
potent wolf
almost like cheating is a problem you can't solve perfectly
almost like it's something that has existed for a veeeeeeeery long time
summer steeple
this is why all games should be cloud streamed
honestly tho the issue really is just that no matter how good heuristics get its going to be impossible to get 100% accuracy of detecting cheaters and 0% detecting real players
every step of the way of making an anticheat is compromises
because you don't want false positives (valve especially)
spare obsidian
honestly tho the issue really is just that no matter how good heuristics get its...
it also doesn't help that cheaters are now getting their cheats to hardware level
:/
summer steeple
sometimes people get lucky, sometimes people act like bots as a joke, the bots themselves can try to throw random things in to make them seem "more human"
spare obsidian
yeah that's why i get tired of "muh valve should just kill bots" like, has the game industry find a good way to kill bots yet?
this is not a valve issue this is literally a issue that the game industry has been facing ever since the quake 1/Unreal tournament days
drowsy marlin
I am trying to run the 64 bit version of TF2 but it can't launch. Missing executable hl2.sh
drowsy marlin
I did launch from the steam ui
I'll try restarting steam
but first I am verifying files
potent wolf
your files are fine the game is no longer named hl2
potent wolf
it works?
drowsy marlin
Yea
radiant merlin
that 2h video
complains about not being able to stack 6 winstons anymore, huh blizzard hates fun
"stacking 6 engies at last is not fun"
drowsy marlin
and now for some reason, TF2 now sets my monitors refresh rate to 50hz
I swear to God
always one thing after another
potent wolf
tough locust
does anyone who knows how to edit animation .qcs know if there's a way to go to the next sequence once the first one finishes?
potent wolf
and now for some reason, TF2 now sets my monitors refresh rate to 50hz
maybe it's related to https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/3688#issuecomment-948412675 ?
summer steeple
does anyone who knows how to edit animation .qcs know if there's a way to go to ...
maybe with this stuff? i've never done animatiosn before
livid oracle
wait did joshie change the fact that the sphere check and shit just does a box c...
i sent an email about that a million billion yrs ago and explained in detail why i think it's probably a bug but i'm 100% sure that emails on tf2 official website doesn't do anything
i sent the iron bomber fix there also a million billion yrs ago and it only got fixed when i asked steph to send it to joshie
next nymph
tell steph to tell joshie to join here
potent wolf
jarateking tells wget to tell steph to tell joshie to join the mastercomfig discord server
next nymph
feels like 90% of the time joshie gets brought up it's "hey joshie's currently looking into this thing we already have a working fix for from last year"
summer steeple
its funny cause I once asked eric if I should email him directly about issues or the tf email and he said "either works"
clearly not the case
livid oracle
i watched the vid in the issue and it doesn't seem related
i don't think i've mentioned the sphere thing elsewhere outside of this discord, the IMMEDIATELY SHREDDED EMAIL, and some youtube comment somewhere
summer steeple
although tbh one email is a communal one that I'm sure someone (probably eric) tries to wade through like once a month and stuff will get buried in and one is eric's actual email which he probably reads more often
livid oracle
this is why communism is bad
cursive peak
I wonder how much outright abuse gets sent to the TF Team email.
spare obsidian
i sent an email about that a million billion yrs ago and explained in detail why...
is more likely you would get an answer on the HLDS Mail
but unless you're be able to handle THAT dude
next nymph
I wonder how much outright abuse gets sent to the TF Team email.
i remember seeing a guy who would periodically send extremely angry emails to the tf team that a specific hat with a specific unusual effect's position adjustment was positioned wrong, and he did this several times until eventually it got fixed
potent wolf
kind falcon
<@235307846676381696> ping
idk this was shared by true gamers a day after release
legits get to have fun a month after the fact
potent wolf
oh well that explains it
kind falcon
free vac bypass and you know
drowsy marlin
Should I use proton for the linux version of tf2?
I can't stand the tiny and ugly font on native linux
grim parcel
no
you can try installing mscorefonts iirc?
but it's still pretty bad
wait
it's fixed in the beta branch
mystic turtle
Should I use proton for the linux version of tf2?
Hate to break it to ya, but proton ain't gonna work
IIRC VAC doesn't recognize it and you can't play on secure servers
As getchoo said you can grab mscorefonts
half rose
can someone verify if this works? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr_e0q3sDr4
it works
drowsy marlin
Hate to break it to ya, but proton ain't gonna work
IIRC VAC doesn't recognize i...
The x64 branch fixes the font so I may as well wait for that
small sirenBOT
drowsy marlin
Good bot
high current
Does anyone know what actually happens to cause the HUD bug where your health stays in the low-health-warning state? Like from a code perspective.
My guess from monkey-with-a-typewriter reverse engineering is that dying seems to either block or halt animations running, at least during the freeze cam, but maybe during the whole respawn process. Because things like the ReplayReminder animation don't seem to trigger, and manually triggering animations during the freezecam don't seem to do anything.
IDK if its that the death code blocks animations, if it just causes a lag spike that sometimes blocks animations, or if it hides hudlayout so your health isn't actually there to animate (this shouldn't be the case), or what the cause is. Honestly I'm just more curious than I am looking for a solution.
high current
Slight revision:
It seems like spawning is what actually halts animations... So I guess sometimes your HealthDyingPulseStop animation tries to trigger when you spawn and that blocks it? Is it because spawning refreshes your HudLayout? Have I reverse engineered this correctly or am I just a monkey with a typewriter?
tough locust
you're risking a vac ban by doing this
grim parcel
is that a vulnerability?
yes you’re getting an unintentional game advantage by a slight fps increase
on linux it’s even worse because you finally get an almost normal experience compared over retail
i can’t wait to remove shit from the docs after this
no more native library sections 
potent wolf
no more native library sections <:prayge:1006301532960063619> <:prayge:100630153...
wait a few years and someone's going to break everything again
grim parcel
i wouldn’t be surprised
maybe valve should just use proton instead as the main way to play
win32 is the most stable abi on linux after all
potent wolf
win32 is the most stable abi on linux after all
tacit flare
// Yes. This will cause a memory leak. Too bad.
crisp cedar
i really had to make sure that wasnt actually blog.hitler.eu
potent wolf
lmao
languid haven
maybe valve should just use proton instead as the main way to play
there's reason i don't touch TF2C anymore.
potent wolf
?
languid haven
worse performance on proton with dxvk than native with togl
small sirenBOT
languid haven
what the fuck is a haiku?
cursive peak
languid haven
brain hurts
tough locust
what the fuck is a haiku?
are u fr
languid haven
yep
potent wolf
FATAL ERROR: RecvTable_MergeDeltas: overflowed in RecvTable 'DT_TFTeam'.
huh
summer steeple
datatables changed again?
limpid panther
kind falcon
you're risking a vac ban by doing this
just use vac bypass 2025
livid oracle
limpid panther
effected
next nymph
its actually wrong. Doubles are twice as big (because 64 bits is twice of 32 bits) so the bounding box is halved
livid oracle
true
spare obsidian
Twitter
broken haven
open fortress mentioned
left sand
radiant merlin
hopefully they won't add 10 normal maps
next nymph
what you got against textured representations of surface normals, huh?
radiant merlin
they clearly should add height maps instead
left sand
different people were responsible for selecting the maps over the years
radiant merlin
different people were responsible for selecting the maps over the years
snowtower
emerge: not fun, not interesting lol
spare obsidian
what's blud yapping about
broken haven
wutsville
grim parcel
they should add 100 more maps like wutville to the game
i want to see all of the youtube videos complaining about them because there's nothing better going on in the community
paper sluice
Why are higher level casual players increasingly more bigoted
Chat is always sayin some shit
spare obsidian
what do expected from base dwellers that are starving for content for over 8+ that they want to figth with people to just cope
potent wolf
being a tf2 fan is very serious business
tough locust
emerge: not fun, not interesting lol
stop the cap
tough locust
This statement cannot be true for Wutville.
then again tf2 did have more devs in 2020 during covid including the guy that absolutely ruined mannpower
i wouldnt be surprised if someone picked them that wasnt eric that shit definitely did not get tested tho
spawn in and turn around and there's just some rainbow effect like a trade map
formal dew
the guy who ruined mannpower also created it
tough locust
he also burned my crops and salted my land and poisoned my water supply
potent wolf
🫡
grim parcel
he killed my wife and kids
crisp cedar
we love dario casali here ok
zealous pond
The future is bright.
craggy ridge
then again tf2 did have more devs in 2020 during covid including the guy that ab...
nah fr tho what did they do with mannpower 😭
tough locust
what changes to people even think ruined it, I'm curious
heavy can no longer jump out of a grappling hook which makes reaching certain parts of maps nearly impossible becasue not every part of a map has a roof to grapple to
you can't cap the enemy's intel while your intel is away and it takes ~15 seconds to go back to your spawn meaning that you have to aimlessly wait out a timer to be able to cap the intel 90 percent of the time, and if both intels are being held NOBODY CAN CAP THE FUCKING INTEL
while holding the intel your grapple speed is reduced to about 1/3rd of its regular speed
the "dominant" status which means you just get nerfed to shit for being good at the game and it doesn't go away for like 10 minutes
literally a million things got overhauled over the course of a week in 2020 with no playtesting and it went from meing mid to being impossible, it was designed to be like threewave CTF where the points are captured super fast (WHICH IS WHY THE CAP LIMIT IS SET TO 10 DARIO) and the changes make a game of mannpower literally impossible to complete, you can stay in a lobby for 3 hours and not even have 5 caps yet
its a tragedy how bad they massacred that mode
craggy ridge
while holding the intel your grapple speed is reduced to about 1/3rd of its regu...
only change i like tbh
radiant merlin
yesterday i met another wiki cap owner
he told me that he obtained it in 2011
it's this guy
tough locust
the oldhead's helm
paper sluice
radiant merlin
valve employee jumpscare
radiant merlin
valve employee jumpscare
this comment crashed my pc
tough locust
dario nextbot
formal dew
anyone tested the dragon fury performance on x64
radiant merlin
anyone tested the dragon fury performance on x64
idk i have a good pc but
scorch shot in comparison
not sure if they updated the df particle so 🤷♂️
tough locust
is the lag because of the giant particle stretched over the whole screen or is it because of the light that it spawns whenever u click
formal dew
The dynamic light is cheap
The issue is how for both the shooter and other clients the weapon spawns multiple instances of the fireball particle
radiant merlin
idk i have a good pc but
retail tf2
summer steeple
doesn't it spawn like 100 different particle systems or some shit
thats probably wrong
radiant merlin
it mean its when it spawns
idk about that but i've noticed that the first projectile always causes a green spike
probably because it's the first non-player non-map entity created?
formal dew
Iirc someone found it was between 1,000 and 8,000 instances
misty plover
I think the airblast is using the cone again on x64, I did some quick vscript to make a display of how the cone and box should look from memory (I think the cone was 37 degrees from the center of the player's chest?), and it seems to be the case
I did mess up the box, I forgot to add the vertical component to it but its close enough
livid oracle
@misty plover doesnt look like theyre in the cone when they get airblasted
the old behaviour checks if the middle of the player is in the cone
misty plover
Did it?
languid haven
I *think* the airblast is using the cone again on x64, I did some quick vscript ...
it's awesome you can do that
misty plover
Hm
misty plover
Here it seems to be as long as the BB is intersecting my simulated cone, so maybe its something different then
Hmmm
languid haven
no it's only airblasting those in the cone
livid oracle
@misty plover https://youtu.be/sZ0axNXvNik?si=inH2j3DT_8KR5nog&t=48
languid haven
based on the video you can check the frames it starts the knockback
livid oracle
see timestamp
languid haven
cone is definitely smaller
livid oracle
can you render a sphere instead
livid oracle
same size and position as the box
left sand
I *think* the airblast is using the cone again on x64, I did some quick vscript ...
can you try the other practice map where everyone is just jumping
misty plover
Don't have it installed, got a WS link?
left sand
tr_rocket_shooting2 i dont see it on the workshop :(
it might be easier to compare and aim at angles on this one
since theyre not walking forward
misty plover
Yeah probably
left sand
😱
misty plover
Hm
Sorry for massive videos, too lazy to re-encode
Also not sure why the lines are disappearing like that, they didn't do that before, how weird
My angle on the cone may be wrong? Anyways, here's the sphere you wanted as well
Or maybe the airblast comes from higher up on the player?
languid haven
I'm so confused
misty plover
That sphere draw is expensive
misty plover
I'm so confused
What about
languid haven
On if it's just the cone or the airblast is broken. I noticed it didn't airblast the moving spy in the cone in your previous video and if any of this effects projectiles.
misty plover
On if it's just the cone or the airblast is broken. I noticed it didn't airblast...
The spy was outside the cone in all of those misses
Its kind of hard to tell though
Its weird for this behavior to have been reverted though
Cause I don't think it'd be something under a conditional compilation flag
Or maybe? Is the x64 build a STAGING build and they just left it under that when they removed it? That'd be really weird though?
Anyways, I'm tired, @ me if you have any more things to test on this and I'll do it tomorrow
languid haven
I prefer it this way cause it seems less buggy compared to a giant box.
livid oracle
My angle on the cone may be wrong? Anyways, here's the sphere you wanted as well
whats the offset youre using for the sphere
heavy solarBOT
@livid oracle has earned the wicked role!
livid oracle
this doesnt look right at all
maybe it's just the angle of the vid
i preferred testing with a pyro bot instead of being the pyro
makes it much easier to actually see
misty plover
I'll do that tomorrow then
kind falcon
yeah just reverse engienmre the 64x buiol;d ... and whatever
misty plover
i preferred testing with a pyro bot instead of being the pyro
I don't know how to control bots to make them fire on command though lol
small sirenBOT
misty plover
Can I execute this bot
misty plover
this doesnt look right at all
I decided to be silly and make it rotate as you look around, should be centered on the player though
It takes like... a really long time to draw because I decided to be silly and make it use DrawLine (and a bunch of them at that) instead of making it out of circles like a normal person
radiant merlin
idk why couldn't valve make the airblast box detection rotate
kind falcon
idk why couldn't valve make the airblast box detection rotate
ur kinda smelly..
radiant merlin
kind falcon
https://tenor.com/view/cat-punch-stuffed-toy-gif-16184358
sowwy..
kind falcon
frowning emoji
slender nexus
im a 23 year old woman :3c
kind falcon
tacit flare
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/783080457952428042/1210738563331919892/Re...
This update keeps getting better and better. Readding airblast cone? Fuck yes! This has happened to me multiple times throughout the years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoXVlKBQm0Q
"Lets remove the airblast cone and make the hitbox so fucking huge it goes behind the pyro's model lmao."
potent wolf
This update keeps getting better and better. Readding airblast cone? Fuck yes! T...
this is a bug
formal dew
airblast being a box is actually good because your field of view is a rectangular trapezoidal shape
more consistent
tacit flare
this is a bug <:trollfig:938154442484777111>
next nymph
airblast being a box is actually good because your field of view is a rectangula...
make an airblast frustum dependent on your aspect ratio
limpid panther
make an airblast frustum dependent on your aspect ratio
make it dependent on FPS
glass pollen
make it dependent on FPS
Dragons Fury users can now hinder the airblast capabilities of all pyros in sight
floral sandal
languid haven
such a fucking waste of food
drowsy marlin
They should release Blue Moon II
summer steeple
2 moon
paper sluice
such a fucking waste of food
Nah it’s the only thing fish is good for
Other than sashimi
And sushi
summer steeple
this is why the scout uses the fish as a weapon
so he can slap you for hating fish
mystic turtle
friendly reminder that the Holy Mackerel stinks due to being an unrefrigerated fish being used primarily in hot areas (the Badlands)
"One shudders to imagine what smells lie wrapped in that newspaper, what stenches could be awaiting when one is hit by his rotting fish" -not the Spy
tough locust
and just bc fish smell in general
potent wolf
limpid panther
shit
fuck
fuck
shit
just spent the whole day benchmarking this shit on windows and forgot to turn on the GPU time option in presentmon
I still have the normal data but I could have the cool gputime data too!
limpid panther
Here is the data anyways:
- The demo used is of a 12v12 casual match on pier, with players wearing cosmetics (no unusuals, unfortunately). This demo was chosen because it has a little bit of everything: water, ragdolls, explosions, gibs, fire, things at different lods, cosmetics, etc.
- "high" and "low" correspond to the max and minimum graphical settings that you can set through in-game menus (except for anti-aliasing and blur, which were turned off for every test, but including advanced options like the hud playermodel)
- As you can see in the footnotes of the graphs, this is a laptop with a Vega integrated graphics card that can barely run the game.
- The SVG fametime data is averaged over 5ms
- You should open up the SVG file in you browser to easily scroll through the data. If you open it up in Illustrator similar programs you are gonna have a bad time.
- Timedemo distorts the relative improvements between tests, so I'm not using that. Please read the notes under the graphs to understand the setup and options used
- I've included a video of the demo file. Don't mind the audio, OBS was messed up.
there is barely any improvement, so if you play on windows on a slow laptop and think this update is gonna allow you to finally play TF2, you are gonna be disappointed, which is a shame
radiant merlin
have you already tested dxvk?
limpid panther
have you already tested dxvk?
no. this is the game stock besides graphical options inside the game (or mastercomfig, when noted)
limpid panther
have you already tested dxvk?
I mean, I did test it on linux on my main rig:
#1072696252162117752 message
radiant merlin
i think it's worse than normal but it's more stable
limpid panther
i think it's worse than normal but it's more stable
on windows?
radiant merlin
yes
limpid panther
right, I will test that when I can
languid haven
i think it's worse than normal but it's more stable
i doubt also doesn't make sense
limpid panther
im also skeptical about it
unborn pecan
eh
I think I remember whenever I tested portal 2 with dxvk
I saw more stable frame times
while a lower max fps
but i mean it's like
you know
a source engine game
cursive peak
Yeah, I saw similar with Portal 2 and DXVK, and I don't think it was huge cut in terms of lower FPS.
Like 630 with DirectX and 600 with DXVK.
Or something similar.
unborn pecan
I think having stable frames is more important than max fps
unborn pecan
Like 630 with DirectX and 600 with DXVK.
sounds about right
cursive peak
Stable frames are nice, especially when it's not costing all that much in terms of overall frame rate.
unborn pecan
yeah
tough locust
Here is the data anyways:
- The demo used is of a 12v12 casual match on pier, wi...
surprised that the 0.1 percent highs spike so high for 64 bit even if they are outliers
coarse spruce
@limpid panther Good work btw! Quite refreshing to see someone who can actually produce proper benchmarks.
limpid panther
<@132103076269129728> Good work btw! Quite refreshing to see someone who can _ac...
thank you!
coarse spruce
Btw, tf2 srcds works on arm64 if you try hard enough (currently with qemu-user-static, seemingly also with FEX which should offer better performance, haven't tested fully yet)
craggy ridge
I *think* the airblast is using the cone again on x64, I did some quick vscript ...
NOOOOOOO WAYYYYY
NO ONE REPORT IT
PLEASE
NO ONE REPORT IT
potent wolf
NO ONE REPORT IT
too late
next nymph
NO ONE REPORT IT
livid urchin
Since gl_mtglflush_at_tof won't be available anymore with the switch to vulkan, should Linux users start enabling mat_forcehardwaresync?
mystic turtle
I'm no expert
but you can still use toGL via -gl
so if that runs better than DXVK (in the unlikely case it does) then keep that off
IDK how it would work with DXVK
left sand
Since `gl_mtglflush_at_tof` won't be available anymore with the switch to vulkan...
i will investigate, but it's likely yes
limpid panther
surprised that the 0.1 percent highs spike so high for 64 bit even if they are o...
although they spike high, the variance graph shows that frametimes inside each individual run vary way less in tf_w64 than in hl2
so, on average, if you account for all deviations from the mean (all "spikes", not just a certain percentage) from all runs, tf_win64 is way more consistant
paper sluice
spare obsidian
how
summer steeple
classic
limpid panther
radiant merlin
after 16 years, prediction on payloads carts is still shit
spare obsidian
that's why they need to remove it
limpid panther
are you guys able to connect to the item servers rn?
limpid panther
it's a tuesday, expect everything to be broken
thanks, I forgor
radiant merlin
probably because the output to convert the payload into a prop is fired before the point is actually capped
that doesn't explain the payload behaves like that in the middle of a game tho
potent wolf
reverse engineer vac and fix it
limpid panther
this is me trying to join a community server
radiant merlin
tf2 og update: no internet boogaloo
limpid panther
no but like: its a brazillian server and it's full of people
small sirenBOT
broken haven
broken haven
tf2 og update: no internet boogaloo
what if every game had a og update
spare obsidian
crisp cedar
https://vxtwitter.com/JoeyCheerio/status/1762723454468366618?t=M_xE3Idxji5dR7Nky...
the spire cut....
limpid panther
https://vxtwitter.com/ikatoro99/status/1762780010438422768?s=20
that was quick
this is the good part of the community showing
limpid panther
these investment videos do be looking like tf2 videos tho
languid haven
i hope that tf2c door mechanic gets added to tf2 maps
slender nexus
what if every game had a og update
what if every game had a built in emote where
craggy ridge
eric smith looks like dean norris
wow that is not how i imagined him
he look so happy i thought he was going to be like a 30 year old miserable ginger
radiant merlin
https://youtu.be/2bJj5dUjGpE
woah the dynamic light thing looks neat
also baptiste in tf2c
summer steeple
cut out things he wasn't supposed to talk about
idk i haven't watched it but i would not be surprised :)
craggy ridge
cut out things he wasn't supposed to talk about <:trollfig:938154442484777111>
it's more likely that he accidentally spread misinfo tbh
broken haven
mystic turtle
gaben scunt
buying green accessories with Steam profits instead of updating (insert game or series here)
misty plover
it's more likely that he accidentally spread misinfo tbh
"accidentally"
dreamy marlin
these investment videos do be looking like tf2 videos tho
fellow newpipe enjoyer 
languid haven
it's more likely that he accidentally spread misinfo tbh
he was jus reading off an email
radiant merlin
languid haven
his servers suck
unborn pecan
i love crits
floral sandal
paper sluice
vscript
summer steeple
I mean... idk about what other people think but this sort of thing seemed agiven
is that a word? agiven?
it seemed obvious
potent wolf
yes valve would be perfectly fine with you using leaked code
summer steeple
like if valve was ok with the way tf2c and of were they would never have C&D'd them
vscript was the first step to mod support within tf2
and to be completely honest, I think for the most part TF2C and OF can be done via vscript
paper sluice
pf2 stays safe 🙏
summer steeple
is PF2 leaked stuff or is it on 2013 sdk exclusively?
paper sluice
leaked lol
its based of tf base i think i cant remember and has some other leaked stuff
they (valve) just dont know
left sand
vscript is obviously the future
idk why people havent already seen that its valve's solution
summer steeple
because its not perfect idk
next nymph
is that a word? agiven?
just a given, like a lot vs alot
summer steeple
ah
radiant merlin
if they want to improve vgui... they would have to scrap vgui and implement panorama
and that ain't gonna happen xd
potent wolf
just a given, like a lot vs alot
just a pple, not apple
paper sluice
because its not perfect idk
yeah in its current state its not the same as just making a standalone thing with free reign over everything
radiant merlin
so yeah, we'll have to wait for that vscript vgui update
summer steeple
like off the top of my head the biggest thing that vscript can't touch is UI, and with a lack of UI that limits things a lot
next nymph
just a pple, not apple
Tim A. Pple
summer steeple
valve very obviously is trying to tread very carefully with vscript, specifically in regards to UI
we've straight up been told that security issues have been a major limiting factor
and valve has had issues in the past with things like this
potent wolf
anything with extra client access is an extremely big risk
summer steeple
yeah...
spare obsidian
simple just kill the dude that's trying to exploit shit
summer steeple
like one of the biggest boons of vscript security wise is that it is completely on the server
potent wolf
anything with extra client access is an extremely big risk
effectively, vscript currently has the same amount of power as a server plugin does
summer steeple
eh... a bit less
potent wolf
i wouldn't trust the "sandboxing" with anything
summer steeple
server plugins can just hook into game functions
oh power as in security wise
not having client stuff is quite annoying, but it is for the best
small sirenBOT
summer steeple
vscript only being on the server makes basically anything related to the player annoying
prediction, ui, etc.
and to be honest, a lot of the most important things we can do with vscript right now are kind of exploits in a way
mostly just abusing how the game works
like you look at the vscript examples and you see shit like this
radiant merlin
summer steeple
getting something to only show up for one player iirc is like... teleport them to a room so that they're in the same PVS with the object you want them to see and then teleport them out i think
or like, editing the wireframe engi buildings when you're about to place it
spare obsidian
imma be honest, better wait and see, since eric is the only who's working atm, jhosh is on vacations and ficool too
summer steeple
yeah of course
radiant merlin
imma be honest, better wait and see, since eric is the only who's working atm, j...
joshie has just returned
i think
well he's still in his vacations i guess xd
summer steeple
honestly even unrelated to vgui support there's still a lot that vscript is missing
can't access pop files, animation events, most of the nextbot interfaces
what we do have is often very indepth
spare obsidian
immo the way in how pop files is just too hacky
summer steeple
wdym
spare obsidian
see the code for it you would understand it lol
spare obsidian
kv shouldn't be use for big ass files
summer steeple
i'm uh, currently, as we're talking, working on my specs file for a vscript pop parser
spare obsidian
do you think json could be a better choice?
summer steeple
idk i'm not super familiar with file parsing
summer steeple
for this i need to also write a program to convert .pop to .nut because you can only load non vscript files that are like, less than 16kb
also this (for loading non-vscript files)
left sand
file packing is so stupid imo
spare obsidian
file packing is so stupid imo
would be better if its bloob binary
left sand
please just make maps a vpk
paper sluice
real shit
summer steeple
as a side note, you can get some client cvars, specifically ones that are sent to the server
but just reading them of course, not writing to them
potent wolf
not fail
potent wolf
explain
spare obsidian
they should nuke pcs
summer steeple
paper sluice
explain
exploit../? https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/843651252012974090.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=thinking~1
summer steeple
we are all in hell
spare obsidian
aren't we?
potent wolf
exploit../? https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/843651252012974090.webp?size=48&qu...
lol
tf2 is very secure
summer steeple
tf2 should be ported to a memory safe language like rust because the white house hates c++
potent wolf
tf2 should be ported to a memory safe language like rust because the white house...
they don't want people using the sdk because it's in C++
livid oracle
and to be completely honest, I think for the most part TF2C and OF can be done v...
i really doubt that
paper sluice
in terms of like gamemodes prolly
livid oracle
vscript afaik can't run clientside
paper sluice
just not everything else they have
potent wolf
vscript afaik can't run clientside
step 1. gain code execution on client
crisp cedar
potent wolf
to what?
summer steeple
Jane's reading ability
potent wolf
Jane's reading ability
what ability
summer steeple
my favorite thing in the world is inconsistency for how the teams are referred to
sometimes its strings like "Red" and "Blue", sometimes things support "Blu", sometimes they support numbers (and sometimes those numbers are the internal numbers where red and blue are 2 and 3 and sometimes they're not those), sometimes they support both
anyway rafmod does this and i hate it