Team Fortress 2 Megathread - winter is the most chill time of year

[cursive peak]

Even the fingers in the Gunslinger would be bad. I can see the joints pinching while in there.

Entire Gunslinger + the taunt.

[paper sluice]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/907131683583696906.webp?size=48&name=dayruined&quality=lossless

i didnt think of that

[paper sluice]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1144129228493832242.webp?size=48&name=scandalous&quality=lossless

[cursive peak]

Third consecutive hit with the Gunslinger is also a guaranteed crit.

[jagged pawn]

I LOVE SQUIMJIM

SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM V

[unborn pecan]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/508272488610922497.webp?size=48&name=funkeuhh&quality=lossless

the fuck is a squimjim

[craggy ridge]

@livid oracle check this out

[jagged pawn]

the goat

[jagged pawn]

THIS IS FROM SQUIMJIM SERVER

SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM SQUIMJIM

[craggy ridge]

he will make a follow up video with the things that he missed

I'm excited for current flamethrower mojo to become more publicly known

[craggy ridge]

pondering if this is anthracite or an accidental gem

[jagged pawn]

I have no idea what that means

[craggy ridge]

anthracite is the highest level of coal

accidental gem in this context is something so coalish that it turns the other way around and becomes a gem

[unborn pecan]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/508272488610922497.webp?size=48&name=funkeuhh&quality=lossless

you guys are crazy

[craggy ridge]

read theory.

[unborn pecan]

You guys are

coal

no presents from santa for y'all

https://tenor.com/bBTh5.gif

[kind falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/big-floppa-for-bk-gif-25780630

[unborn pecan]

this is

HD floppa

[craggy ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/plinkna-big-floppa-cougar-utah-cougar-attack-gif-19054325

[kind falcon]

this is not floppa

[craggy ridge]

you are the reason why i have this ideo saved

[grim parcel]

ana from overwatch

[kind falcon]

image

[grim parcel]

heavy should get a rein shield

[kind falcon]

every merc should get a passive heal in s9

[spare obsidian]

https://youtu.be/znFmPQGTUIw ah yes increasin the max limit of something works*

• at cost of breaking something

[radiant merlin]

idk why bloodwater has a lot of entities

iirc it doesn't have a very big hell

[broken haven]

big hell

[radiant merlin]

mhh it looks smaller than slasher's

i gotta check that

[formal dew]

big bill hell's

[jagged pawn]

I know at launch it used to spawn literally every boss lol

[small siren]

*I know at launch it

used to spawn literally

every boss lol*

- grapevine

[jagged pawn]

is it possible that the stuff required for that is still sitting there just inactive? not a mapper so idk how any of this works but that would be my immediate guess

[summer steeple]

it is

also i think there's a bunch of stuff like all of the pumpkins in the cart are their own entity because making models is hard i guess

[jagged pawn]

what the fuck lmao

still insane to me that it ever got added. like it's better now (still not great) but launch bloodwater was easily the biggest mistake they've ever made, even moreso than wutville imo

[summer steeple]

halloween stuff takes a lot of entities

[jagged pawn]

sure but it was so badly made regardless

[summer steeple]

ok this cart is FUCKED

and yeah, every object in the cart is a different prop because i hate my life

halloween maps also have pumpkin spawnpoint ents, gargoyle spawnpoint ents (maybe serverside only?), spellbook spawnpoint ents

this map in specific has multiple boss spawn ents, skeleton spawn ents, etc.

its bad

granted, not all of these point ents take up an edict

for example, static props are point entities but don't take up an edict because there's nothing to network, they don't move

[high current]

To wutvilles credit, it’s so bad that it’s kinda funny.
A lot of the boss-spam Halloween maps are just bad. The maps themselves are usually like a 4/10, but then the map devs over the past 3 years just decided that more bosses = better?

I’m excited for next year though. Krampus showed off what’s possible with vscript’s ability to make NEW bosses, in a relatively short time frame. So next Halloween we’ll see what people have been cooking for a full year.

[slender nexus]

Those Halloween maps make me feel like I'm in a Minecraft Trade server

[small siren]

*Those Halloween maps

make me feel like I'm in a

Minecraft Trade server*

- hikikostar 🏳⚧

[high current]

honestly minecraft trade servers are less chaotic

[spare obsidian]

tf2 could reduse the number of ents if they combine some entities into one like to make the payload card in its most basic form you need like 3 entities

[summer steeple]

yeah like valve could so stuff to reduce ents and edicts

i mean they have

last year (i think?) they made a lot of ents that didn't need to be networked not do that

[spare obsidian]

having the train be basically a prop_ entity ala black mesa source would be nice too

[radiant merlin]

this is so funny

hahahha

[spare obsidian]

brah

[livid oracle]

what is the script even supposed to be

[radiant merlin]

a hold to zoom script for sniper

[spare obsidian]

that is literally mouse 2

[craggy ridge]

thinking abt suicide rn

[radiant merlin]

nope you constantly zoom in and out

[craggy ridge]

@limpid panther do you have a copypasta explaining why using "cl_interp 0" in the console is bad

i've just had the most frustating convo about this trying to painfully explain to someone why they were wrong about interp 0 being the best value for all classes

[limpid panther]

no, sorry. I don't

[craggy ridge]

unlucky!

[limpid panther]

I do have this, though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5bEfKqm1o8

the description explains it

[craggy ridge]

thanks ^^

[livid oracle]

it's not really bad

it basically forces cl_interp_ratio to be used instead

[paper sluice]

they're all multiples of 11,.,

[left sand]

theyre also all multiples of 1

[hidden gyro]

https://youtu.be/GxE1FLslMb8?t=166

Invisible fire that uses no ammo

🤔

I should make this a bind

[high current]

iirc it uses ammo, it just uses a small amount that doesn’t show on the UI. If you do it repeatedly it still drains.
And since jungle inferno added the ramp up for prolonged flaming people, you’re basically just throwing a warm towel at you enemy doing this.

[radiant merlin]

i think the original bug refers to when the flanethrower appears to fire flames but just client side

i think it happens when you have connection issues

[fickle dragon]

blind gaming

[hidden gyro]

Excuse me what

[high current]

What about it?

[spare obsidian]

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/5413 don't you love when you can get out of bounds? clearly they should remove engineer

[high current]

Remove engineer. Give scout the widow maker

[zealous pond]

Hopefully that never gets fixed.

I mean it probably won't but still.

[radiant merlin]

is there a reason why my game dies when i join a 100 player server? it doesn't happen all the time

[stuck locust]

does this occur on many 100 player servers? or just one

it could be that the server's dropping some people due to the high pressure

[radiant merlin]

there's only one 100 player server

nah i see all the other players playing normally

[stuck locust]

yeah not sure

there've been cases of players randomly dropping out of various servers with seemingly nothing attributed to their game

could record it with net_graph 4 if you want

[radiant merlin]

what if i increase the bandwith?

[stuck locust]

you can try

not a bad idea

assuming your connection can handle it

[stuck locust]

also, are you using wi-fi?

[stuck locust]

was this with the rate increased? or just net_graph 4 footage of the issue

[radiant merlin]

nope

just net_graph

[stuck locust]

then yeah i'd increase the bandwidth value if possible and see what happens

[radiant merlin]

i did and it still doesn't work

[stuck locust]

was that after disconnecting/reconnecting?

[radiant merlin]

yes

[stuck locust]

if you connect to a different server, does the issue still occur?

[small siren]

*if you connect to

a different server, does the

issue still occur?*

- Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz

[radiant merlin]

nope

my guess is that is just my fucking stupid internet provider

[stuck locust]

yeah could be something bad that spontaneously goes across your routing to that specific server

or maybe the high pressure causes something along your connection to throttle it

since half of the packets are missing

[left sand]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPaxWGcwJw8

[crisp cedar]

this will be tf2 in 2027

[craggy ridge]

I think this is the funniest clip i've taken in a while

[jagged pawn]

the finals

[radiant merlin]

unlucky af

[craggy ridge]

unlucky!

[livid oracle]

i think this is just gonna be saying that those stairs are unclipped

if you try to rampslide off of that specific staircase it doesnt work

[potent wolf]

truly evil...

[potent wolf]

HOLY SHIT

64bit

test branch

its real

[formal dew]

64 but linux only 🙏

2024 will be the year of the linux desktop

[cursive peak]

Neat that they're testing it on Linux first apparently.

[formal dew]

windoze l

[potent wolf]

It might only be for linux

[radiant merlin]

no way, macos players (1 player) will be finally able to play tf2 again!

also finally another joshie work i guess

[cursive peak]

I wonder if they dropped that this late on a Friday on purpose.

[potent wolf]

It's a private branch

[formal dew]

private forever

there's nothing there, it's a fake out to taunt us

[radiant merlin]

liar the javier update is coming

[cursive peak]

It's private, but we know it exists, and now we have all weekend before Valve is back in the office to speculate.

[tacit flare]

Is it true? TF2 coming to 64bit?

[cursive peak]

https://steamdb.info/app/440/history/?changeid=21975149

[crisp cedar]

maybe im crazy but what if its a steam deck thing

cause i think thats probably what that really is

[potent wolf]

in what way?

[crisp cedar]

updating it for better steam deck compatability

but

if i was to imply theyd do it for steam deck compatability

they might as well update the game in general

and

okay

nevermind

now it sounds like its not a steam deck thing anymore

[potent wolf]

most of the linux stuff they do is for steam deck

[formal dew]

eventually the optimal way to play TF2 will be emulating the Linux build in windows

[crisp cedar]

thats pretty much the only reason i guessed its for steam deck stuff

[slender nexus]

It probably is because tf2 kinda runs like ass without comfig on deck

[crisp cedar]

oh wtf i still have tf2 installed

[left sand]

vulkan and 64 bit helps steam deck

[potent wolf]

we'll see if dxvk comes along with it

[crisp cedar]

tf2s steam deck compatability is marked as playable

[small siren]

*tf2s steam deck

compatability is

marked as playable*

- rayningforests

[crisp cedar]

so maybe theyd want to look into changing that

[potent wolf]

and maybe finally a tcmalloc issue fix

[crisp cedar]

unlikely though

[left sand]

its that way because of the main menu

[slender nexus]

They can't because there's too many keyboard commands to map

[left sand]

i doubt they would

everything else is mapped

[slender nexus]

getting voice comms (Z,X,C) mapped on deck would be hell

[formal dew]

consistent arrow key control of all menus when

[left sand]

afaik the steam input support introduced in JI added action layers

[slender nexus]

Also does this mean Joshie is finally getting around to fixing that VAC error thing that mainly affects Deck users?

[potent wolf]

It means absolutely nothing until something is announced, or the branch is made public

[left sand]

i hope that it doesnt just stay 64 bit for posix

i really need to get in those fixes

for demo support

because prec is gonna die

if they do windows

[radiant merlin]

wait do people still use prec?

[stuck locust]

primarily comp players

[radiant merlin]

wasn't it mym?

or idk some time around it

when they introduced the steam controller

[left sand]

JI fixed some issues afaik

[radiant merlin]

valve also update csgo to 64 bits in linux right?

or was it macos?

[potent wolf]

linux

and iirc, linux only

[spare obsidian]

question how compat for demos is going to be keeped for x64 branch?

[potent wolf]

would it even be a problem?

[spare obsidian]

not sure that's why i'm asking lol

[potent wolf]

I'm going to go with probably not, but don't take my word on it

[small siren]

I'm going to go

with probably not, but don't

take my word on it

- replay

[cursive peak]

Or they'll have a demo compatibility branch.

[potent wolf]

one more for the pile

[pale basalt]

i doubt its actually 64bit unless they are cheating it

[potent wolf]

?

explain

[pale basalt]

emulation trickery

[potent wolf]

????

[spare obsidian]

what?

[potent wolf]

what do you mean by emulation trickery?

[cursive peak]

Other than the depths of cynicism, why would you think it's not legitimate 64 bit support?

[jagged pawn]

never, we love the game being literally not functional, it's quirky and endearing!!!!!

[left sand]

macos

[potent wolf]

huh, didn't know that

[left sand]

its actually 64 bit just like every other Source engine 64 bit port

[livid oracle]

why would this be fake

the only surprising thing is that it's tf2

[potent wolf]

erm where is your proof?

anyways hopefully it's going to be a public test branch like vscript.

[spare obsidian]

unlike vscript this one really needs a long testing lol

64 breaks a lot of things

but i trust josh

[jagged pawn]

so would there be a benefit to this besides optimization/modernization

not that that's a bad thing ofc that's sick, just wondering if there are broader implications than that

[livid oracle]

mac support

i don't think i've ever seen tf2 use more than 2 gb of ram

[spare obsidian]

a bit late for mac support now that valve killed support for steam on it

[potent wolf]

what

They killed support for 32bit macs

not macos

[left sand]

tf2 often gets very close to reaching the memory limit due to system copies of textures

especially on linux and mac

[livid oracle]

i easily hit the limit on 32-bit gmod on servers with a billion 4k textures

i guess that's why

[radiant merlin]

who designed this oyg

[cursive peak]

The old casting HUD?

[lusty ice]

While the x64 upgrade would be great for macOS, I'm not sure that's in their cards anyway.

[kind falcon]

a "x64" upgrade to "macos" is meaningless anyway

[lusty ice]

Unless you're playing on semantics, it is since TF2 can't run on macOS 10.15+. I know modern Macs use AArch64 chips though.

[radiant merlin]

yes

[summer willow]

i can't believe valve is updating the game for bots

[paper sluice]

hey guys look now people can call me a loser and be right

[radiant merlin]

so all mannco store bots got community banned

lol

[left sand]

https://steamrep.com/search?q=https%3A%2F%2Fsteamcommunity.com%2Fprofiles%2F76561199580871630

they got hacked

[radiant merlin]

oof

how could a hacker get all of those bots community banned?

[left sand]

because they were stealing items

i guess valve put a stop to it

[radiant merlin]

the admins did it somehow

the hacker(s): https://fxtwitter.com/CHERRYSARCHIVE/status/1739724711464927546

[kind falcon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1098966386962866188/1161793695469813871/IMG_4105.gif

[potent wolf]

what are they up to

[potent wolf]

no macos update?

[cursive peak]

https://steamdb.info/app/440/depots/?branch=x64_linux_test

[left sand]

mac is dead

[potent wolf]

noooo client symbols 😭

actually they're probably going to be gone if it's ported to x64 anyways...

rip

[left sand]

catbot is dead

[potent wolf]

hoping they screw up really badly and leave the DWARF sections in the binaries

like in hl1

[radiant merlin]

the most intelligent move for valve is to make macos players install proton? to play tf2

like how some games make you install a directx thing or even worse, their launchers

[potent wolf]

proton doesnt exist for mac though?

[radiant merlin]

oh right

[kind falcon]

nuh uh

[left sand]

game pooping toolkit

[kind falcon]

omw to nametag the kitties “catbots”

[next nymph]

why we talking about chatbots

[left sand]

yhoull get game banned

[kind falcon]

@raven grove be like: meow

[left sand]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/817379791027699722/1196900642686500975/mods.gif?ex=65b94f96&is=65a6da96&hm=6b6d2633a4f2de9b52fbe7fac396865009a220c8ff82ed4d7c040f47a5e53efe&

[kind falcon]

☹️

[radiant merlin]

mcoms the model quality image would be better if you add a heavy near the orange rocks

to see that the lod doesn't change

[slender nexus]

me at the local animal shelter

[drowsy marlin]

Wait lowkey though I should do that

Maybe one day

[crisp cedar]

what is this.

[left sand]

i have no idea i saw it on another discord server

[crisp cedar]

i sanction this

[kind falcon]

ok

[jagged pawn]

vulkan time

I don't know if we already knew it was vulkan but they just updated it again and now it's named so

[zealous pond]

Now my frames can go from 300 to 301!

[kind falcon]

they wont...

[tacit flare]

Am I allowed to get my hopes up? Or will it once again be violently crushed?

[jagged pawn]

what would you even be getting your hopes up for

do you think vulkan is a codename for the heavy update

like

[kind falcon]

vulkan is the code name for the jungle inferno update

[proper tangle]

Did l4d or half life run better when they got it?

[left sand]

not on windows but yes on linux

[heavy solar]

@floral lava has leveled up! (1 ➜ 2)

[limpid panther]

I need to fix my tool to prepare for this

might have some time in the next few days

[dreamy marlin]

https://www.phoronix.com/review/l4d2-vulkan-radeon/2

[proper tangle]

Well that looks promising

it's probably more of a deck effort then

[potent wolf]

cool

[dreamy marlin]

tl;dr: 4.8% improvement at 1080p, 5.8% at 1440p, and 8.8% at 4k, on a version of DXVK that is 2.5yrs old now

[proper tangle]

Yeah but, 1% and .1% lows are just as important, hopefully the improvements there are more significant. But even a 8.8% at best is already welcome

[hidden gyro]

64bit TF2?

[potent wolf]

uhhhh

yes?

we've been discussing this for a while now :P

[hidden gyro]

I mean I know we're switching to 128bit CPUs eventually that won't support 32bit apps

[next nymph]

"eventually" is an important word there

[left sand]

512 bit

or 288

[dreamy marlin]

Yeah, IIRC we'll only need 128bit CPUs when we need more than 16 exabytes (EB) of RAM... which is 1 million terabytes.... that is quite a bit of RAM

[proper tangle]

it will take a while indeed

[hidden gyro]

We're 1/1000th the way there though. Modern supercomputers have 10-16 Petabytes

Give it like another 10 years tops

[dreamy marlin]

and how many of those supercomputers run steam? 😂

[proper tangle]

more than 1

probably

[hidden gyro]

All of them (once I break in)

[next nymph]

the better question to ask: how long until supercomputers can run The Sims 3 without visible lag?

[hidden gyro]

What about Cities Skylines 2?

[proper tangle]

I would bet a real life whole dollar that someone tried to run crysis on it

[hidden gyro]

Or doom

[proper tangle]

It will be a while, even the most recent threadripper can't run a big city on it since the game tops out at using 64 cores

It's playable... With a 4090 and drops under 20 fps at 1440p

[proper tangle]

One more step to get rid of 32bit libraries on linux

not that closer really since steam itself still uses them

but still

[potent wolf]

backwards compatibility D:

[hidden gyro]

linux is removing compatibility with pre-haswell CPUs anyway

or well by default

(https://ubuntu.com/blog/optimising-ubuntu-performance-on-amd64-architecture)

[next nymph]

I do always wonder about games like that, like how does it get to that point without a developer saying "something needs to be done, we can't even develop the damn thing, let alone expect people to run it." I'm sure the low level devs raise it as an issue, but does production just not see it as a blocker?

[potent wolf]

modern x86-64 cpus still support running 32bit apps though

also that's ubuntu, not "linux"

[kind falcon]

what do you mean

[proper tangle]

Pretty sure it's just another case of "we'll fix it later"

[kind falcon]

ubuntu is linux

[proper tangle]

some games are released on specific deadlines just to appease investor/shareholders

as long as "it works" well enough

[kind falcon]

was crysis an attempt to appeal to investors or shareholders

[proper tangle]

at the end of the day, whoever pays for the dev time decides the launch date

Crysis was a wrong bet on the future of cpu dev

[kind falcon]

what do you mean wrong

[proper tangle]

they assumed that by 2010 we would have 6Ghz+ cpus that would run the game fine

[kind falcon]

we did have one

[proper tangle]

Instead both amd and intel were like... "what if more cores instead?"

[kind falcon]

fx8350 best cpu to date

[proper tangle]

Also crysis was kinda of a product demo of the engine for other devs

so it had to look good so other companies would pay for cryengine

[small siren]

*so it had to look

good so other companies

would pay for cryengine*

- diegodamohill

*Modern l4d

the most buggy source engine

game i stg*

- windowsxpgangsteredition

[limpid panther]

👀

[kind falcon]

native vulkan and valve

[limpid panther]

any news?

[potent wolf]

ducks vk

[spare obsidian]

frog vk

[kind falcon]

can’t wait for tf2 players to enjoy the wonderful experience of running vulkan anything with the steam runtimes

i mean catbots. no sane person plays tf2 in 2024

[potent wolf]

can't wait for the day linux players can hurl themselves into the pit on precipice without crashing the game

[high current]

Damn it’s been a while since I or anyone else thought of this.

I have all the of UI for this done, and the buttons do basic aliases. I just haven’t gotten around to making those aliases correspond to executing, generating, and saving comfig aliases.

Which probably isn’t actually all that complicated, at least with my familiarity with the method. Though alias logic can often come with some cookie surprises.

Basically I just ran out of time, went backpacking for 3 months, returned from the desert, then didn’t really care to continue. I might though, depends how bored I get.

[left sand]

reading the article, it looks like a collaborative effort

[potent wolf]

old software should still run fine with these libraries, no?

[proper tangle]

yes

It's also about nudging developers to update whatever needs to be updated so maintainers don't need to bend over backwards for specific features or for specific software to work

[unborn pecan]

ewait

tkg frog is doing it?

also

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1085675210021281842.webp?size=48&name=STARE&quality=lossless

replay what server is that

[left sand]

tf2 vulkan incoming

@potent wolf sniper :)

sorry for being so adamant without specifying why

[potent wolf]

awesome

[potent wolf]

official mastercomfig™️ time machine :)

[potent wolf]

a mac update :O

[potent wolf]

wtf lmao

[spare obsidian]

ah yes

[craggy ridge]

does TC2 fix pyro's flamethrower ramp up?

or is it more of a balance change than bug fix

[left sand]

that's a post JI

and as far as i understand its intended

its a good solution for a bad problem

[craggy ridge]

oh yeah tc2 is pre JI I forgot

[left sand]

nothing other than strict accuracy check for the flamethrower will match the power curve of pyro

since JI, players have made clear they will not accept a change to pyros power curve

the fact that pyro is weak is definitely a feature

[craggy ridge]

did the flamethrower get any changes in TC2 to compensate for the jank pre-JI flames

[left sand]

no tc2 has not touched things which are already changed in the future

[craggy ridge]

oh I see

[left sand]

except for one specific minor case where we reimplement the same functionality with some scout melees

[craggy ridge]

i like venice no cap

it's an overwatch map i can screw around on

the bar for PL map design in casual is already low as long as Vigil isn't on the map pool

[left sand]

wasnt venice supposed to get multiple reworks

[craggy ridge]

so as long as it isn't a wutville or a hoodo i'm fine with playing it

[left sand]

didnt they say keep buying stamps, we will rework the map

[craggy ridge]

lol

[summer steeple]

didn't they change the blu spawn locations

and like thats it

[left sand]

fixed like baby errors

like cubemaps

and Italian flags

i mean its a great map in a lot of ways

[summer steeple]

a great map for a different game

[left sand]

gmod

[summer steeple]

for a map made by 2 experienced mappers (one of which, i believe the main GAMEPLAY developer, had never played tf2 before) in only a few months, its impressive

but also

they made a map in a few months, artpassed it before the gameplay was even good, ignored critical feedback (like the fact that chickenwire should be solid to bullets in tf2), and by their own admission rushed the map to try and look as pretty as possible for the update deadline just to get it in

I know it definitely caused a bit of drama in the tf2maps community

cause it felt low effort and some people hurt the feelings of the map devs in there

because they were rightfully upset

I think one of the devs in response to why they hadn't updated it yet like a few weeks after launch said like "I got married", which on one hand is like, ok congrats, but also marriages take a LOT of time and effort to prepare for, so this mf supposedly was spending a lot of time on this map to get it out for a game he had never played before while also getting married??? what kind of shitty decision making leads you to that and you just keep going with making this map?????

and also

it is no longer summer 2023

it is january 2024

[left sand]

i mean typically only one person does anything for planning

while the other just sits on the couch

[summer steeple]

honestly I hate shitting on people, especially for stuff like maps

because I know from personal experience how hard it is

but this isn't the first project these 2 people had done before

they have done CSGO maps

in fact, one of those maps won a mapcore tournament

they can do VERY good maps

but I just do not understand the decision making that led to this map

"hey lets make a map for a game one of us has never played before and try to get it in the game"

it feels like a dare

ok so they did update the map twice with some pretty heavy gameplay reworks

except uh, not really for the main payload path, which arguably was the biggest problem

oh

well they did supposedly fix an issue a few days after the last update

so maybe they are working on it

but also supposedly the wutville dev is working on that so...

[left sand]

ok but the wutville dev is literally putting in WORK

he wasnt even aware his map was gonna be picked lmao

[summer steeple]

true

there is a difference between just mapping for the sake of making a map and mapping for the sake of trying to get it into the game

not that there's anything wrong with either

but tbh I think some of the responses i've seen them make to people complaining really kinda... uh, shows the people that they are

well, when they actually respond with something thats not "thanks!"

[crisp cedar]

ive been following the wutville dev

every week i see wutville update progress but i dont think valve has implemented any of it lol

[summer steeple]

cause he hasn't submitted it

tbh looking back at some tf2m discourse, I think a lot of people just got offended by venice's existence because it clearly wasn't finished

it felt like a joke

mappers taking a lot of pride in their work and then getting one-upped by a map made in a few months

i'd like to see venice succeed

i'd like to see every map succeed

good on them for getting a map into the game

but god damn it if you want to stop getting shit on you need to put in the work and show you're doing it

[left sand]

i mean do they?

its valve quality

the updates they did were a favor already

[summer steeple]

i mean of course they don't need to update the map

[radiant merlin]

what about framerate stability?

[summer steeple]

damn it, i'm getting heated just talking about this map

it still pisses me off despite my best efforts

[radiant merlin]

i think this is what matters the most in tf2

[summer steeple]

between venice's release and now, they have since released 3 event skins for Ember (DZ map), a wingman map (looks much better than venice) and a CS2 remake of Mutiny, their mapcore winning map

not that they can't have multiple projects

and also i'm sure thats much more appealing

because you're not trying to please a bunch of angry tf2 fans

but it is kinda disappointing

you're right that the quality was good enough for valve

if anything the people we should be mad at is valve

but I can't help but be disappointed by the mappers themselves for even making venice in such a short period of time for the update in the first place

[radiant merlin]

great moment for a mvm update

64 bits massacre update

[grim parcel]

vulkan has been removed, togl time

reading back some of the messages here, i'm pretty excited

[unborn pecan]

owned

[grim parcel]

i kinda thought dxvk wouldn't be coming after vsh like what was said, but this is pretty cool

it'll give me a new game to test with nvk

[unborn pecan]

can't wait for the 50 videos to come out about it by every youtuber

[grim parcel]

i actually kinda have high hopes for that since apparently it beats out the proprietary driver in some cpu bound settings

[unborn pecan]

so when the GPU doesn't matter

[spare obsidian]

let josh cook

[grim parcel]

yeah

but hey still more performance

[unborn pecan]

fr

[grim parcel]

im betting most youtubers will just be saying it's a steam deck update with 64bit

but all the linux outlets will lose their shit again like cs/hl/l4d

[unborn pecan]

get ready for the phoronix forums

https://tenor.com/k09iDr6pIwp.gif

this is how I feel everytime I enter phoronix forums

[small siren]

*this is how I feel

everytime I enter

phoronix forums*

- potasiummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmicrowave

[grim parcel]

"this pigs should open source the game already! proprietary trash"

[potent wolf]

huge

[summer steeple]

"this changelist affected 113649 other apps"

[potent wolf]

[slender nexus]

tf3 confirmed

[unborn pecan]

tf4

[slender nexus]

tf113647

[unborn pecan]

tfhikikostar

[potent wolf]

Its public?

[radiant merlin]

dragon's fury particle still lags my game

0/10 volvo do better

[unborn pecan]

cool

[tough locust]

IDK venice is a totally fine map IMO, it shouldn't ever be a mapper's fault that a map gets into the game and it's not even like Valve gives mappers feedback with playtests anymore like they used to. If you had a map that you thought was pretty good and valve came up to you and said "do you want this in the game?" wouldn't you jump at the opportunity? Theyve put in some work to make it better too when people presented issues. Obviously the gameplay isn't perfect but tons of other maps have glaring gameplay issues, at least it feels finished unlike bread space or that one parking garage zombie infection map. It shouldn't be the creator's discretion to say "no don't put my map in the game Valve even though I worked hard on it put a different map in instead," Though I don't think it should be out of the question to ask other veteran mappers for help if a map does get into the game

[summer steeple]

if you played it at launch it did NOT feel finished

also, i'm not saying that its the mapper's fault that it got added

and as for feedback, sure valve doesn't give them feedback... but they did test it on tf2maps, in fact i participated in at least one of those tests and they completely ignored some of that feedback

it was a map made in a very short amount of time to get in before the deadline

they have gone on record saying that

[summer steeple]

in fact, the version that they put in for the last test was the exact same as the one that was added to the game, despite happening at least a month prior to the summer update (minus issues that arose when valve compiled it)

I'm harsh on venice specifically because I know that the mappers can do better because you look at their workshop and its ALL way better

it's all more polished, more graphically impressive, cohesive, etc.

compared to their other work, venice looks lazy, it reflects poorly on them and it reflects poorly on valve

even if you just ignore the gameplay, from an art perspective it pales in comparison to their prior work

the main artist on the map already worked on a map in the game; precipice event

i wonder if they ever removed the copy pasted merc park speedboats at blu spawn

or made any of the flags a different model that looked more like a flag instead of just 1 weird stretched looking model with 20 skins

[lusty ice]

So the x64_linux_test is live apparently. Are the other improvements included as well?

[jagged pawn]

live in that there's a branch being tested, yeah

and what improvements are you referring to

[lusty ice]

Yes, I meant the branch is live.
From what I was told there were things like a higher entity limit planned.

[grim parcel]

GUH

[glass musk]

so erm TF2 on Windows won't get DXVK? Why Linux only 🤔 I imagine DXVK would also help on Windows with performance

[proper tangle]

its just the beta buddy

windows will get it as well

[glass musk]

hopefully

🙏

[jagged pawn]

yeah I would be shocked if this wasn't universal testing

they're just testing it on linux first and then they'll move onto the lesser operating systems

[grim parcel]

"the lesser operating systems"

lmao

really happy to see the tcmalloc issue is gone

[jagged pawn]

niceeeee

took way too long but we take those

[grim parcel]

it's what happens when you're developing for higher operating systems

[jagged pawn]

TRUE

[limpid panther]

wait, its already here?

[grim parcel]

the beta yeah

[limpid panther]

I haven't even opened steam if a few weeks

things have been hecktic

[grim parcel]

i haven't played shit on linux for a while

[limpid panther]

but now I will have time

time to fix my tool and get to benchmarking, I guess lol

[proper tangle]

early test on reddit shows a 50% improvement but not many details

[limpid panther]

there is no fucking way

[grim parcel]

🧢

huh ok so this is interesting

you don't need -vulkan

it defaults

[limpid panther]

ugh, I already antecipate the influx of "uhm, guys, the game FEELS different" posts

[proper tangle]

Wait, actually, 28%+

still, kinda impressive

[limpid panther]

more like very impressive (in project farm's voice)

[proper tangle]

that is with a 5800x3d and a rx 5700 on nvme

[limpid panther]

but I'll see that for myself

[grim parcel]

i forgot how shit tf2's fonts are on linux

[limpid panther]

yea, it´s terrible

you can´t really read the text chat at high resolutions

[proper tangle]

Imagine this improvement + what coms did, but stable

[grim parcel]

i miss the lesser operating system already

[grim parcel]

@potent wolf already did it

[proper tangle]

watchu mean?

[grim parcel]

pretty sure he got dxvk working in tc2 lmao

[small siren]

*pretty sure he got

dxvk working in

tc2 lmao*

- g3tchoo

[proper tangle]

Oh I see

[jagged pawn]

if that 28% number is real that's crazy

hopefully replicable 🙏🙏🙏

[grim parcel]

it's probably really dependent on hardware

i havent rany any actual benchmark, but just playing around for a bit and looking at framerate, it doesn't seem like a major jump

less hitches and lows though

but still the regular tf2 drops when a ton of people are on the payload

[limpid panther]

yea, I currently have the a vega 7 integrated graphics laptop and a desktop with a ryzen 3600. I will test it on both

also I am now able to test on windows and linux on both

[small siren]

*also I am now

able to test on windows

and linux on both*

- kenajcrap

[limpid panther]

lots of potential for insights

[proper tangle]

I just want to be able to play a 12v12 on suijin and not see the fps go bellow 60

[jagged pawn]

this matters more to me ngl

[grim parcel]

yeah that's vulkan for ya

[grim parcel]

i don't think windows is getting dxvk is it?

[jagged pawn]

insane to me how I can jump from 250fps to 60 at any given time with no warning lol

[grim parcel]

it didn't for the other source games at least

also uh

[jagged pawn]

so if stability is noticeably improved then this is a massive win

[grim parcel]

idk if this already exists by the bots in my game are just

sitting in spawn lmao

[jagged pawn]

lol

[proper tangle]

it is

[limpid panther]

I don't know for sure, but even if they don't, windows vs linux benchmarks are always fun

[proper tangle]

the numbers Mason!

[limpid panther]

can someone test a demo created before the update please?

[proper tangle]

I'm at work, would gladly do it

[limpid panther]

I'm curious if I'm gonna have to create a new demo for benchmarking

[limpid panther]

me too lol

[proper tangle]

but it's literally 9am still over here

[grim parcel]

yeah i can rn

[limpid panther]

currently in a instruction about tubes

[limpid panther]

we are timezone pals

[proper tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-handshake-muscle-strong-man-gif-5783927

[grim parcel]

god damn it discord

[limpid panther]

what caused that? H265?

[grim parcel]

yup

wtf

and another oddity...game just won't start

[kind falcon]

uku

[limpid panther]

lol

so that's a no on old demos

huh, great...

do yall wanna do a playtest tomorrow night?

[jagged pawn]

we're the tf2 fanbase, we don't actually play the game

(jokes aside I probably won't be able to make it sorry)

[proper tangle]

I'm up for it

[heavy solar]

@proper tangle has leveled up! (9 ➜ 10)

[grim parcel]

ye

[proper tangle]

I will just get a kubuntu live usb

we gaming

[limpid panther]

wait, let me clarify: tomorrow night = 25/01/24 20:00 UTC

[proper tangle]

thats exactly when I punch out

[limpid panther]

lol live USB gaming

[proper tangle]

I should be home about half an hour later

I'm waiting for plasma 6 to make the full switch

[limpid panther]

fuck, that reminds me that GNOME still doesn't have tearing on wayland so since I'm gonna have to play on the notebook I will have to switch it to x11 and deal with whatever breaks

[proper tangle]

embrace plasma my friend

boot up a neon unstable

[limpid panther]

nah, gnome is just too good

even though it doesn't have """bleeding edge""" features

[grim parcel]

gnome is a lot of fun

[proper tangle]

or even some basic ones

tbh

[grim parcel]

i mean it really depends on your definition of basic

we're also talking about linux here

[limpid panther]

recently discovered the default touchpad gestures

[grim parcel]

a lot of projects aren't supporting basic shit

[limpid panther]

they are so fucking smooth I keep playing with them while waiting for shit to load

[proper tangle]

tray icons, or minimize windows

[grim parcel]

oh that's just the design philosophy

they have entire blogposts about that stuff explaining why they got rid of it

[limpid panther]

yea, I don't miss those

[grim parcel]

you can also just

renable them

[limpid panther]

I didn´t even use them in windows anyways

[proper tangle]

It's still stupid regardless

[limpid panther]

yea, GNOME extensions are awesome and super varied

and hardly ever break

[limpid panther]

your loss 🤷‍♂️

[grim parcel]

minimize is literally built in and a toggle (although it's worthless in gnome if you actually use their workflow) and extensions can bring back appindicator

well just one that has worked for like 10 years now

[grim parcel]

hey at least they're trying to do something different for the linux desktop

all the other desktops are either ultra minimal window managers that make you choose 5,000 tools to have a basic desktop or yet another windows

or just a straight macos clone

[limpid panther]

the fact that it's the first thing that someone sees when they boot a very mainstream distro like ubuntu is also great and healthy for the ecosystem

[grim parcel]

gnome is pretty unique imo and the design decisions - while super opinionated - make for an experience literally unmatched on linux

[limpid panther]

like, a non-techy person is gonna be exposed to a different design philosophy

[grim parcel]

like there is not a single other general purpose DE that has the level of consistency and polish as gnome...assuming you like their choices (this is where the "problem" is)

[limpid panther]

even if you don't like their choises, slap 3 extensions in and you get a windows clone

[grim parcel]

yeah i think that's a lot better than mint or something where people are just going to be like "yeah this is shitty windows lmao"

[limpid panther]

slap other 2 and you get one of those weird ones where you can't superpose windows for some reason

[distant mango]

x64 + Vulkan Linux oddities:

• Syringes from non-local players are rendered as grappling hooks

• Mastercomfig configs seem broken for some reason

[proper tangle]

Is it some specific feature or command that's broken?

Or does it like, not load at all?

[distant mango]

Parts of it load but it seems some parts don't

[lusty ice]

Or does it like, not load at all?
mastercomfig =/= hl2_osx.

[proper tangle]

it seems coms has some work ahead. Or it could be just linux things

what are you running on?

ubuntu? Arch? Fedora?

Steam Deck?

[distant mango]

Arch

[proper tangle]

well, the chance of being "linux things" has increased

[distant mango]

Here are some console warnings that seem relevant:

Unknown command "preset=low"
Unknown command "preset"
Unknown command "modules_c"
Unknown command "block_antialias"
Unknown command "logo"

[kind falcon]

very interesting

[radiant merlin]

that's the map's fault

it renders like half of the map at all times

[proper tangle]

Still, on team comtress I got it

So the game itself could be improved

without any tweaks to the map at all

[limpid panther]

suijin you say? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj4IjW0EQ6Q

[grim parcel]

I THOUGHT I WAS SEEING SHIT OR THAT WAS JUST A THING ON LINUX LMAO

haven't played on it in so long at this point

[grim parcel]

yeah i got those too

and come to think of it, it seemed like a lot didn't apply

my autoexec did and so did the addons, but my settings were still all set to low

[limpid panther]

I mean, if "preset=low" was unknown, then not a single module applied, no?

[grim parcel]

even though i had the ultra vpk on a fresh install, and the preset set to high on pre_comfig.cfg

[grim parcel]

that's just remember that from my log

i figured i installed something wrong but didn't care lmao

[limpid panther]

lol I wonder what broke

[left sand]

i dont think ive ever seen that

[left sand]

i kinda doubt the tc2 perf stuff will ever get added, there seems to be an everpresent doubt they have that the numbers are fake or something

for some reason

[limpid panther]

all those hours running benchmarks 😩

[limpid panther]

its probably just valve.rc or some shit

[limpid panther]

that one was really not my best work

it was a the very start, I wasn't controlling a bunch of variables

[left sand]

i mean ive sent new stuff but idk

theres always this thing happens where its like, "i tested a few patches on my machine and i didnt see a huge difference myself"

and idk how that works but personally it seems a bit like throwing something out because of bottlenecking elsewhere

[proper tangle]

If only there was like a beta system or something so that people with different configs could test it

[limpid panther]

this also shows how important it is to include the context for the results IN THE PICTURE. So that people know what those numbers represent. Joshua probably thought the benchmark was just standing still looking at something

[proper tangle]

but I get why

[limpid panther]

if I had said what was the benchmark OF, this could have ended differently

[left sand]

i mean theres no need to dump a bunch of info upfront

its just one graph

i have no idea what goes on, but to me it feels a bit premature.

[limpid panther]

I should at least mention how its the playback of a demo, averaged dozens of times

[left sand]

but its like

[limpid panther]

but I get what you are saying

[left sand]

theres no curiosity or seeking understanding

[limpid panther]

this definitely crushes my heart

[left sand]

its just, oh yeah these must be fake because casually i get good fps

granted, at the time this was when tc2 was mostly experimental and i hadnt formed patches yet

so it wouldnt be much use to joshie

honestly, the big amount of hype about tc2 probably did more harm than good

because all people saw was just a blob of work

not that i was gonna formulate patches later on

[limpid panther]

ehh... I wouldnt be here if it wasnt for the huge amount of hype, so Im split on that

[fleet kite]

Casually I noticed an immediate positive difference with tc2 and I'm not very picky

[proper tangle]

I mean, at this point, one way or another, they must know that tf2 has performance issues for most users even if "Works well in my machine" right? I mean, everyone and their mother installs comfig

[fleet kite]

Did they fix whatever causes that weird stutter with spawnroom type doors yet

[proper tangle]

also, curious, where is this from?

[left sand]

but its not fine? its unstable, and doesnt account for cpu architecture differences. on pretty much any cpu made in the last 10 years you get an fps limit way lower than what you set

idk, i dont know why and i dont wanna assume anything, but there must some reason why theres distorted dismissals about it

probably some bad first impression

or some opinions shared about it

but yeah, i dont have any hope for at least joshie implementing anything

and eric i dont think has the time

[fleet kite]

Maybe if there was more data from more setups, given the testing method is consistent

[left sand]

i mean ive tried to provide that, at least casually with the near hundred people who tried it during our playtests

getting everyone to set up formal benchmarking and not play is kinda hard to ask of them

[proper tangle]

At this point, we could do a full phoronix style article on it and it would probably be ignored

but who knows

[left sand]

but i feel like theres enough evidence to at least try it and i dont know why its being tossed so readily

[limpid panther]

yea, im gonna try to facilitate that a little bit. but its hard to get actually valid data without being really attentive, and I cant expect most people to be that attentive

[left sand]

it seems very irrational to me so i am surely missing something

[fleet kite]

Probably because it's "fine" as it is

[distant mango]

I want the networking and hit registration fixes from TC2 to be merged at the very least

And some of the bug fixes, ideally

[next nymph]

tbf you've seen the sorts of misleading benchmarks tf2 players swear by, wouldnt be surprised if the impression is just lumping it in with the rest of the community

[fleet kite]

Would have to be largely automated I guess

[distant mango]

#64bitTF264tickservers

[left sand]

also can ppl who cant load mastercomfig try renaming the mastercomfig.vpks to soup1.vpk, soup2.vpk, etc

[limpid panther]

it is. But some stuff is really hard to automate, like making sure your PC doesn't get hotter over time

[left sand]

i wanna see if its just blocked by vpk name

if it is, please dont use mastercomfig for the test

[fleet kite]

I made a plugin lib for a small game once and people actually added the lib dll to the plugin folder, the geniuses

[left sand]

id also like to see if the autoexec runs at all with a simple tf/cfg file with an echo

[distant mango]

Hardcoded mastercomfig VPK block

[left sand]

yeah thats true. i just wish it would be investigated a bit more fairly because of the potential benefit

also, theres so much i wanna fix or do, but i personally dont have the time to do all of it for free

[livid oracle]

have you talked with joshie

[left sand]

so i can understand if it feels incomplete or things are not as good as they could be

[livid oracle]

i don't think mastercomfig has a bad reputation but there are a handful of ppl that swear against it

[left sand]

yes ik

and it usually stems from a bad reason, then they make up other stuff

[livid oracle]

mainly afaik because they tried to use it, encountered a mild roadblock, and decided it ruined tf2 or something

[left sand]

yup or people being sexist

[next nymph]

dont forget the misplaced transphobia!

[livid oracle]

also quite a lot of ppl have been banned from this server

[left sand]

its a form of sexism

[livid oracle]

the immediate mistrust of mastercomfig and tc2 i've seen from people is quite odd

like they don't start off with a neutral opinion

[limpid panther]

yes! I think when people that usually dont get banned from discord servers get banned. they become extremely impacted by it

[left sand]

ive seen a lot of people not explain their bans correctly

like not even a perspective thing

but just kind of like an intentional falsehood to start a crusade

[small siren]

*but just kind of like

an intentional falsehood

to start a crusade*

- mcoms

[left sand]

anyways, i went ahead and asked joshie a very innocent question about SSE2 that might open the door

[next nymph]

whenever I hear someone say "I was banned for x" and then I look into it and it's never just "x", so I naturally don't trust anybody to be accurate on why they were banned

[left sand]

every time ive seen it in the context of tf2 and mastercomfig

ppl like instantly are suckers for it

its very strange

[limpid panther]

to start a crusade the person in question would probably need to have some weight in a community. Idk how many of people like that we actually baned

what I see is mostly random people thinking anonymity = le funny trolling

[next nymph]

like it'll be as blatant as "I was banned for disagreeing and voicing my opinion" when they were just saying slurs repeatedly

[left sand]

but yeah ive also noticed a very small handful of people who seem to completely hate everything to do with me and mastercomfig

and ultimately i dont understand what truly motivates them

but ig i dont have to

because its dumb anyway

ik a lot of ppl here who started like that and ended up not doing that anymore

but of course i havent interviewed them to see what goes on

but whatever, it doesn't really matter

the amount of kindness and support this community has shown is mind boggling

[limpid panther]

true

[left sand]

and im glad there's a lot of indicators to show that what im doing helps people

this is a tc2 change

but i suppose he found it on his own

[formal dew]

Are there still issues with cjk characters on linux

[left sand]

i just hope he does it for windows too, i cant remember if that part of font cache is platform specific

https://github.com/mastercomfig/tf2-patches/commit/9306ed5d830c445502c7cdb6121f7347cfcd1f18

[livid oracle]

every time i've said why i was banned from the uncletopia discord it has been accurate

[limpid panther]

hey @livid oracle why where you banned from the uncletopia server?

[livid oracle]

someone was complaining about finding nazis in a casual 2fort server and i replied with "you should slit their throats"

wait i was wrong i said "you should skin them alive"

[limpid panther]

oh

[livid oracle]

they already hated me there because i argued a lot about tf2 game balance so that was probably just strawcamelback

[proper tangle]

I like the sentiment but you really shouldn't be surprised for being banned by saying someone should be skinned alive or have their throats slit

just sayin

Also, its just another tf2 discord

[livid oracle]

i dont think they wouldve banned me if the mods didnt hate me because ive seen ppl say far worse things there

[proper tangle]

all sort of BS happen everywhere

[next nymph]

see, every time someone says why they were banned they're saying something else

[livid oracle]

i also distinctly remember i argued with someone about ttt for some reason

i said traitor testers were bad and boring and lame and they started psychoanalysing me

[limpid panther]

they are boring and make or super easy for the T

[next nymph]

you sound like an INTJ

[livid oracle]

like going on about how im psychologically inclined to force people to only have my viewpoint or some shit

because i had an opinion about game design

[next nymph]

i am psychologically opposed to slop

[proper tangle]

I tried to share a ban from another server and I said a word I shouldn't, got timed out

[next nymph]

but nah like "hey a social deception game probably shouldn't have an immediate and easy 'figure out who's lying' mechanic" really shouldnt be controversial

[proper tangle]

My bad

[left sand]

no quoting is pretty much fine

[kind falcon]

Rule: Bad Words

[left sand]

i didnt know to revert it

[livid oracle]

to be fair i was being annoying i think, like getting too "in-your-face" about it but i still think it's funny to be pissed off about that

because it's about videogame design

[next nymph]

ttt suggestion: every player is immediately put into a traitor detector, which will be clear to everyone through the entire game. To balance this, there are as many traitors as terrorists, and both have equal access to weapons

[livid oracle]

have amongus-likes died out

i dont see new ones anymore

[next nymph]

amongus isnt as big as it was either

i dont think the genre is going anywhere, social deception has been around for ages, but it certainly has booms and busts

[proper tangle]

Wink wink nudge nudge sort of question

I like it

[livid oracle]

different ppl are making their own s&box (lol) ports of ttt which imo aren't gonna be as big at all

they want to make like a

sanded off and polished ttt experience which i think is not what ppl play gmod ttt for

[limpid panther]

that's fine by me

let someone make something cool and new

[livid oracle]

i dont have a problem with it at all

i just don't think they understand what made ttt successful

[next nymph]

i have a problem with it and its called s&box

[limpid panther]

are they gonna try to make "competitive" ttt?

as in: not janky physics fun

[livid oracle]

like seriously when i gather a bunch of ppl to play ttt, it's not so we can stare at the pretty pbr textures or whatever

[limpid panther]

why is the rayne hate spreading? 😩

[livid oracle]

it's so we can play a social deception game in an environment with wacky physics interactions and maps with unique elements

[limpid panther]

oh, you mean graphically impressive? that's even dumber

[livid oracle]

the maps they've advertised with sbox ttt so far are like

unminecraftified ttt_minecraft_b5

[limpid panther]

lololololol

[livid oracle]

and a casino map that's way too big for 8 players

looks pretty? sure

[limpid panther]

I wish I could play party games like that with you guys without latency being unfun. I would have definitely have organized a game night by now if that was the case

[livid oracle]

imo it's fine even with high latency

it;s supposed to be chill anyway

[limpid panther]

so many cool games that are not competitive but also do require somewhat good latency to be fun

[livid oracle]

i play with ppl from the US where i have 150-200 ping

[limpid panther]

I get it, Its more of a me thing, I really dislike the prediction errors

[next nymph]

turn-based social deception games?

where ping don't matter

[limpid panther]

they do exist

there is also other fun party games that are social but not deception

[livid oracle]

i personally just got very used to it

combat is mainly hitscan

for our server i do add a lot of physics elements in combat but i've still found success with it, just harder to predict

[limpid panther]

Like: I get 130ms playing TF2 with people from this server and I already dislike it

[livid oracle]

i wish getting demos into video was easier in gmod i havea bunch of recordings of kicking physics props and throwing guns at ppl and it never gets old

[proper tangle]

You can use my approach

[limpid panther]

like what? IEDs?

[proper tangle]

play enginner

[next nymph]

turn-based physics games

[limpid panther]

omg you have throwing guns? thats awesome

[proper tangle]

I played the first few RGL seasons on a 150ping, that was kinda hilarious

[livid oracle]

kicking props and throwing guns

[limpid panther]

I did like to play engi for a long time e few years ago... I will try that next time

[livid oracle]

mechanics stolen from fistful of frags

[limpid panther]

havent played engi in a long time

[livid oracle]

actually here's a clip i do have from last week https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/462389994204561419/1198858402420490341/simplescreenrecorder-2024-01-22_13.00.42.mp4

i bought a t weapon that increases kick damage (both directly and with kicked props and kicked doors)

adding kicking from fof is the best decision ever

[limpid panther]

this made me realize something that would really benefit vanilla TTT

[kind falcon]

4 player ttt

[limpid panther]

LONGER ENGAGEMENTS

that was so much more fun that just 1 shotting someone

[livid oracle]

yes we were waiting for other ppl because everyone LOVES to be late

[livid oracle]

yeah adding fistful of frags combat literally made it 500 times more fun

[kind falcon]

who is we

[livid oracle]

gamers

[limpid panther]

also, what was that thing that you shot at the first time? was that a gun?

[small siren]

*also, what was that

thing that you shot at the first

time? was that a gun?*

- kenajcrap

[livid oracle]

dynamite

[kind falcon]

maybe fof devs shouldve considered adding ttt (trouble in troublemaker town)

[limpid panther]

oh

[livid oracle]

you've played fof right

[limpid panther]

no

[livid oracle]

if you do i guess you would know how much of a brick the mares leg is

[small siren]

*if you do i guess

you would know how much of a

brick the mares leg is*

- crawl space

[livid oracle]

when you throw it at max charge and it hits someone it deals 60 damage

quite funny

oh yeah for this ttt session i briefly turned off the server password and some random guy joined and actually stayed for the rest of session

and it was his first game of ttt because he got the achievement for playing a second gamemode

i was so surprised he didnt immediately start trolling or something and actually quickly learned how to play

now he'll never be ever to have the same experience because public ttt servers are all p2w slop now

[livid oracle]

vanilla ttt has the deagle that just ohkos everyone

and my friend group is Gamers so basically every engagement is the first person to shoot will immediately dome everyone

[limpid panther]

true

I have nowhere to play

[livid oracle]

and a lot of public ttt servers ive played on

make all weapons basically bullet hoses with high damage

[limpid panther]

have you considered hosting your version publicly?

it would be a public service

[livid oracle]

so ttk is like

0.1 secs

[livid oracle]

the server is run solely from the funds of one of our friends whose fiance is a lawyer

[limpid panther]

we should hop to https://discord.com/channels/389089828249010188/1073934742346539119

[limpid panther]

ok then publish the source?

[livid oracle]

you mean the fistful of frags ttt?

i put it on the workshop

[limpid panther]

ah

[livid oracle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0g8O_B2CxU

[limpid panther]

wait, but if you guys play once in a while, why not just host on someone's PC when you do and then close it down when you are done?

[livid oracle]

because hosting on a home pc is kinda bad

[next nymph]

isnt a decent fulltime server like less than $10 a month or something

[livid oracle]

a dedicated server is easier

[next nymph]

i may be stupid

[livid oracle]

yes i was just exaggerating the costs

[limpid panther]

no no, but if its on the workshop nevermind hosting it

no need

[kind falcon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/992118472907698269/1195985859275653150/image.gif?ex=65b5fba1&is=65a386a1&hm=02b961cbe6aba9de0992525850953051a0fbfe1efa32d61f98fa6b0b368cfd0a&

[livid oracle]

kinda wanna make a second video of this now that i have a fuckton more footage but my god was this a ridiculously difficult and time-consuming process

gmod's demo player

doesn't have free roam or whatever

[next nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/yayyj-gif-6510174559938943769

[kind falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-tube-trapped-cat-trap-gif-24954140

[livid oracle]

and the slowmo effect we use at round end kinda breaks demos and makes it jitter all over the place

gmod doesn't have stv or anything

[kind falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-surprised-gasp-what-cat-shock-gif-635629308990545194

[next nymph]

you could try this upgraded version of gmod, its called sandbox

[livid oracle]

does sbox even have demo recording

seems like something that garry would strip out

[limpid panther]

I think it's one of the "make it on your own" things

[next nymph]

doesnt the s in sampersandbox stand for stv

[livid oracle]

yeah so basically it's nonexistent

[livid urchin]

seems like something changed with console fonts in the x64 beta

[livid urchin]

rendering is worse than before I think

[livid oracle]

you will have to complain to joshie in shounic's discord (official tf2 communication line)

[livid urchin]

has anyone found new cvars in the x64 beta?

[kind falcon]

maybe

[livid oracle]

@livid urchin see #announcements📰

[left sand]

it was promising!

[proper tangle]

where that

the one from his youtube?

[livid oracle]

i actually dont remember how i joined the server

[limpid panther]

good!!!

[left sand]

but i think i rambled too much

yapping

[limpid panther]

this was a jok by wget jane. Just use the github repo from #announcements📰

[left sand]

would anyone be interested in a youtube video going over each and every tc2 patch

like a developer commentary / directors cut

[livid oracle]

tc2 video essay

[potent wolf]

i would

[limpid panther]

oof. Sounds like a lot of work.

[livid oracle]

people love highly technical videos now

even if they barely understand them

[left sand]

it would be a description of each change, my thought process, cut content, caveats, potential alternatives

etc

[proper tangle]

That sound great

[livid oracle]

how long do you think it would take

like the vid length

[limpid panther]

this sounds awesome. But I would definitely start by the most interesting/exciting ones for you instead of cronological order or something

just in case you get bored after doing a few

[proper tangle]

I mean, it could be broken down into smaller videos for each patch, depending on how much was done

In any case, I love the idea

[limpid panther]

that's what I thought from the start

[left sand]

9 hours

[limpid panther]

It's gonna go over most people's head