#Team Fortress 2 Megathread - winter is the most chill time of year

1 messages · Page 18 of 1

potent wolf
spare obsidian
#

fans thinks that valve is the reason tf2 doesn't improve while that's true to certain extend, tf2 has not became a p2w pawn scheme that i bet any modern day dev would do if they owned tf2 lol

formal dew
#

true

tacit flare
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Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies..

image.png
grim parcel
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(he's a passionate gamer)

spare obsidian
#

didn't tyler got trolled by valve?

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lol

tacit flare
hoary geyser
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tyler is valve?

crisp cedar
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im not using the kid friendly edition

image.png
summer steeple
#

no

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why are you people on 4chan

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stop it

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get help

crisp cedar
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dont worry i just wanted to check if pol was down

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i got excited for a moment but was let down

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oh well

formal dew
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4chan is the most powerful force of global conservativism in world politics rn

craggy ridge
crisp cedar
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youre underage

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please dont browse 4chan

craggy ridge
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i dont

summer steeple
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just don't browse 4chan

spare obsidian
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what have you done rayne

summer steeple
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like ever

spare obsidian
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you can

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jsut avoid at any cost

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/pol/ and /vg/

crisp cedar
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or just dont browse 4chan

tacit flare
#

What about /mlpol/? trollfig

formal dew
#

this hotels good just avoid the 4 floors that are full of mustard gas

small sirenBOT
#

*this hotels good just

avoid the 4 floors that are

full of mustard gas*

- Borealis
crisp cedar
#

f

#

r

lean cove
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no not even

craggy ridge
summer steeple
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its 4chan

spare obsidian
summer steeple
#

thats whats wrong with it

spare obsidian
#

when a new game is out

crisp cedar
#

if you think nothings wrong with /vg/ you will LOVE crowbcat's latest video 😋

spare obsidian
#

even if itsn't bad at all

spare obsidian
lean cove
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also just standard 4chan bigotry but IN MINECRAFT

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(in video games)

crisp cedar
#

point is, 4chan is just not used by good people

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period

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it's a honeypot

tacit flare
#

4chan is a hive of scum and villainy, but I must give props when it is due for HWNDU CTF.

spare obsidian
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i just use it for the tech side of things or tutorials lol

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like reviving an old ass motherboard

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that only christ knows

cursive peak
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Still wouldn't go to 4chan for that.

spare obsidian
#

reddit that's supposed to be a helpful place doesn't work either so :/

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exaust all your options

crisp cedar
#

me having to scroll past the child porn to find the motherboard diy repair video

craggy ridge
cursive peak
#

4chan is just as likely to doxx you and throw a brick through your window IRL.

potent wolf
#

4chan is a shit place for shit people.

tacit flare
#

Reddit when 90% of the threads are moderated by the same 6 people.

hoary geyser
#

does moderation even exist on a 4chan?

formal dew
#

Using 4chan should be a bannable offense under discord tos

small sirenBOT
#

*Using 4chan should

be a bannable offense

under discord tod*

- Borealis
crisp cedar
craggy ridge
crisp cedar
#

how do you know

spare obsidian
#

StackOverflow when the user post a chatgpt generate answer because the scumbags would not longer being asshats

tacit flare
craggy ridge
potent wolf
#

4chan users when common sense

spare obsidian
#

something that some poepl doesn't have

cursive peak
#

Pretty sure 4chan would allow kiddy porn if it wouldn't get them reported to the FBI.

crisp cedar
#

last time i opened 4chan which was a long time ago i was greeted by a truckload of loli zorn

spare obsidian
#

gen z whe ncommon sense gets in the room

crisp cedar
#

so i think child porn is still on 4chan

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either way

lean cove
crisp cedar
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lets drop the convo

craggy ridge
craggy ridge
crisp cedar
#

i dont think we should talk about cp in a tf2 thread

spare obsidian
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blame rayne

crisp cedar
#

cp with fake/drawn/fictional children is still cp

potent wolf
heavy solarBOT
#

@potent wolf has leveled up! (38 ➜ 39)

levelup.png
craggy ridge
spare obsidian
#

StackOverflow users when a user ask a question:

crisp cedar
#

i love player destruction

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and i love attack/defend

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and koth

tacit flare
spare obsidian
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Mann Power when a new update releases

hoary geyser
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what's your guys favourite seasonal event

craggy ridge
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player destruction is goated because sniper sucks on it trollfig

craggy ridge
spare obsidian
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my fav season is when i shut down my internet and ignore it

crisp cedar
spare obsidian
#

1 Message blocked

crisp cedar
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mald

spare obsidian
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how dare you to shit on pl upward 😠 😠 😠 😠

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/j

crisp cedar
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i made this image when i got so mad for having to play like 5 payload maps in a row

craggy ridge
#

upward is so OVERRATED

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valve should add VIGIL

spare obsidian
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if upward was so goo, where is downward???????

craggy ridge
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to show TF2 players what a GOOD pl map LOOKS LIKE

formal dew
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Unfortunately the guy who made those updates left

tacit flare
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I've seen things.. you people wouldn't believe..

image.png
cursive peak
#

There is a pl_downward

formal dew
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So mannpower will never get updated for the rest of time

hoary geyser
#

17012 messages blocked...

left sand
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lmao

spare obsidian
#

0 Messages blocked

crisp cedar
lean cove
tacit flare
#

Meanwhile in my TF2 game today..

image.png
spare obsidian
#

The Discord user when gets blocked by the entire discord server staff

potent wolf
craggy ridge
spare obsidian
#

hot take: mannpower is mid

formal dew
#

People should block other accounts the second they say anything they disagree with

crisp cedar
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thats fine, it was an experimental gamemode to begin with

lean cove
crisp cedar
#

but here's a hotter take

lean cove
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(this is a joke

crisp cedar
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hot take: payload is mid

craggy ridge
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mannpower was goated because it's horribly unbalanced and any good player could stomp regardless of the class

hoary geyser
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if every moderator blocks you aren't subject to moderation anymore

spare obsidian
#

florida man blocks half planet

potent wolf
cursive peak
#

https://tf2maps.net/threads/downward.18189/

TF2Maps.net
PL - Downward

Description: The first two caps have a lot of height differences, with a track that continuously slopes downward. The second cap has a zig-zag type of track, which then passes through a rather narrow passageway into the final cap, which has a very open area.

Anyway, I hope the map will be...

spare obsidian
crisp cedar
#

ok im gonna go play disco elysium

potent wolf
#

the sane option here

formal dew
spare obsidian
crisp cedar
#

linux mint chads

spare obsidian
#

where's linux popsicle??

potent wolf
#

pop os

formal dew
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arch

cursive peak
#

What do the cops have to do with anything?

spare obsidian
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smh edited

potent wolf
crisp cedar
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before i go, have this pizza tower track thats stuck in my head

lean cove
#

I HATE DARIO FOR THIS

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I CANT STOMP ANYMORE 😭

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(not as hard as i could before at least)

formal dew
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were you one of the pubstompers that Dario manually kicked bc they were too good

craggy ridge
#

Thank god Player destruction is safe

spare obsidian
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LOL

formal dew
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I recall some minor drama about that

spare obsidian
cursive peak
#

What if we nerf your mother instead?

spare obsidian
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comedy gold

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here's your reddit gold sir

crisp cedar
#

i remember in dota some guy got a ban because they pissed off a valve dev and i think some guy from valve replied to a callout thread saying "were sorry, we're literally stripping every valve employee from the ability to do this"

lean cove
cursive peak
#

Won't stop your mom's nerfing.

lean cove
#

dario kicked layzer a bunch of times

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cause layzers good af and kinda rude

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was stomping him hard

cursive peak
#

Couldn't grant himself a Valve rocket launcher and ruin the guy's fun?

small sirenBOT
#

*Couldn't grant himself

a Valve rocket launcher and

ruin the guy's fun?*

- Steamworks
lean cove
#

seems he had a temper

spare obsidian
#

virgin dario

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chad robin walker

crisp cedar
craggy ridge
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Dario is the schrodinger's chad

formal dew
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Valve devs should pull a real one and give random people the universal steam license

craggy ridge
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nerfing demoknight but for the wrong reasons

cursive peak
#

Imagine instead of banning a TF2 player, they just spun up a bot that followed them to every server and tunnelvisioned on them with the various Valve weapons.

crisp cedar
#

alright i guess im not learning much in disco elysium either

image.png
lean cove
#

anyways yeah i should 100% email eric "please p4 revert dario's last tf2 change"

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"everyone hates it and yall fired him or whatever so yeah just undo it pls"

formal dew
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what was it

lean cove
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the last mannpower update

formal dew
#

Was it the nerf if you pubstomp too hard

lean cove
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yeah

formal dew
#

domination penalty or something

lean cove
#

plus 10 cap rounds

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10 CAPS

spare obsidian
#

idk what's bad about domanination penalty?

lean cove
#

DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG THAT TAKES

lean cove
spare obsidian
#

elaborate

formal dew
#

max 10 or 10 to win

spare obsidian
#

tried play mannpower but all servers are dead

lean cove
#

10 to win

formal dew
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jfc

lean cove
#

the dom mode has bad hysteresis and toggles basically randomly

formal dew
#

I also like how 2 of the 3 mannpower maps are unfinished

small sirenBOT
#

*I also like how

2 of the 3 mannpower

maps are unfinished*

- Borealis
summer steeple
lean cove
#

anyways its bad i have a csgo game to play

formal dew
#

have fun

spare obsidian
#

isn't almost all new tf2 gamemodes unfinished?

formal dew
#

mannpowers game mode is mature but iirc the mannpower versions of gorge and thunder mountain are unfinished

lean cove
#

idk whats incomplete about thunder mountain

#

i believe u

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its just already fun

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gorge is a mid map tho

spare obsidian
#

2fort but is mannpower

left sand
#

mannpower wasnt the last thing dario did...

potent wolf
tacit flare
#

Wtfville?

left sand
spare obsidian
#

the painville

tacit flare
#

Wait, where is that webm..

spare obsidian
#

for real to how would you fix wutville?

orchid sorrel
tacit flare
formal dew
#

wutville balloon race

craggy ridge
# left sand

the fact that this isn't even the worst map in the game is depressing

left sand
#

wutville but with epic halloween boss spam

formal dew
#

at least junction looks nice

craggy ridge
craggy ridge
left sand
#

junction is good tho

formal dew
#

junction should be ported to cs2

craggy ridge
#

junction does not look nice

craggy ridge
#

the red team wins junction

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that's how both map works

left sand
#

ive won junction as blu

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thats what makes it fun

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its really tight and hard

craggy ridge
#

some people have also won the lottery

left sand
#

and just feels good the whole time

spare obsidian
#

i hate that while yes some maps are not that good in tf2 some people take it to the extrem to harrast the map creators

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:/

tacit flare
#

I'm going to make a TF2 halloween map and simply just add all the Boss NPCs spawning every 2 minutes. Easy.

formal dew
#

wutville update 2023

craggy ridge
#

Playing junction is as good as being beaten up with a metal whip on fire

left sand
#

wutville update: added a few more sightlines

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junction is really fun imo

orchid sorrel
spare obsidian
#

wutville updated: blocked everyone from playing the map

left sand
#

its one of my favorites

spare obsidian
craggy ridge
orchid sorrel
#

Mvm junction

left sand
#

i just said

orchid sorrel
#

I like its artpass

spare obsidian
#

upward but is mvm

orchid sorrel
#

Theres an mvm upward on potatos test servers

left sand
#

if you don't like junction then you dont know about left flank

formal dew
#

Flank steak

craggy ridge
spare obsidian
#

lol

left sand
#

i just love stalemates

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its the only way that makes the game active

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and interesting

spare obsidian
#

you just love not being able to finish the game

formal dew
spare obsidian
left sand
#

rolls are just

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oh i rocket jump a few times

craggy ridge
orchid sorrel
#

Yes ironically stalemates keep you playing for longer

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Some of the most popular maps are stalemate fests

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Like dustbowl and 2fort

formal dew
#

I got the powerhouse 143 map wins achievement through playing

spare obsidian
#

imagine valve not using sudent death for when a game goes into stalemate

formal dew
#

tfw CSGO casual let's you pick teams but not tf2

small sirenBOT
#

*tfw

CSGO casual let's you pick teams

but not tf2*

- Borealis
formal dew
#

Why am I doing so many haikus

craggy ridge
# orchid sorrel Yes ironically stalemates keep you playing for longer

yeah I can enjoy some good turbine once in a trillion years but red in junction has such a fucking advantageous position in comparison to blu and the map is so tight and cramped that you might aswell hit yourself with a rock to death because at least that's a more entertaining torture method

formal dew
#

Stoned to death from the lung buster 3000

craggy ridge
formal dew
#

Insert exploding hog

craggy ridge
#

that's animal abuse i am pretty sure

formal dew
#

Hydros a stinker gameplay wise

hybrid cloud
#

all they want is new content regardless of quality assurance

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valve not doing anything is honestly better because even with all their terrible short sighted ideas they have at least a half idea of how the game works

craggy ridge
hybrid cloud
#

that's why they ask valve for new content too

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again tf2 players don't care

formal dew
#

the contracker breaks the artstyle

hybrid cloud
#

they just want a conveyer belt of content, look at how popular tf2c became in a few days because they added a jump pad and the force a nature on pyro

spare obsidian
#

tf2 players doesn't care if tf2 ends at the hands of some scummy new devs that wants to turn tf2 into a gatcha hell game because at least for them would get new content

hybrid cloud
#

look at the custom weapon servers on that mod

formal dew
#

Should have been a green 60s unix monotone

craggy ridge
#

I should get control of tf2 actually

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Tbat would be epic imo

formal dew
#

true

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tf2 should be controlled by a triumvirate

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You, lebron James, and xi jinping

hybrid cloud
#

by fortnite emotes i mean looping taunts

craggy ridge
heavy solarBOT
#

@craggy ridge has leveled up! (35 ➜ 36)

levelup.png
craggy ridge
#

Replace Lebron with someone else otherwise i refuse to cooperate

formal dew
#

Integrity

broken thistle
#

average linux user

summer steeple
#

just realized I never posted this even though i meant to

pl_phoenix_b30000.png
#

jeremy gulch

jagged pawn
#

do you actually mean trolldier or do you just mean the market gardener

using the market gardener as intended, with a rocket launcher, is extremely good. trolldier blows

#

this is terrible lol

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I mean to be frank I think people would use the shotgun about as often as they do now even if they were required to equip it. it's just not that useful on heavy, there's a reason no one used it even before unlocks existed

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it's not about that. I would love for tf2 to get some modernized ux, it desperately needs it. but ux and visual style aren't the same thing, and the style of this ui doesn't fit tf2

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nah this looks sick tho

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LMFAO

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they fr just said battle pass huh

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YES

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I can't tell if this is a joke but I truly hope you're serious because this would be so sick

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they copied it from fortnite because this is a fortnite clone lol that's it

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they tried and we got pass time trollfig

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shit I responded to a lot LMAO mb

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was catching up

formal dew
#

tfw bad robot owns the IP to pass time

jagged pawn
#

pass time is so funny

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I don't think there's any known proof that bad robot owns it but man it got abandoned fast so idk

formal dew
#

escalation studios the people doing the dev work got succed up by Bethesda

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I believe they're doing extra development on starfield

radiant merlin
left sand
smoky notch
#

pubs are how the game was meant to be played

lean cove
#

pubs are peak tf2

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it can only get worse

smoky notch
#

comp is antithetical to the idea of tf2

jagged pawn
#

so can a demoknight, doesn't beat a good demo tho. like I'm not trying to say that trolldier isn't fun but it's pretty clear which is better at winning games

lean cove
#

who cares about winning games tbh

smoky notch
#

yea, because trolldier isn't a power class?

jagged pawn
#

lmfao

lean cove
#

if the troldier is stomping then they're winning

smoky notch
#

did you find something i said funny?

#

demoknight isn't a power class either

jagged pawn
#

was directed at jean

smoky notch
#

icic

#

sniper is good, but he's not beating a soldier and demo bombing him at the same time

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doesn't mean he's a weak class

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sniper doesn't win games yet is commonly considered overpowered

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medic as an idea breaks this power class superiority theory

jagged pawn
#

I mean I'm talking about net contribution to the team, something sniper is extremely good at as long as he has a team defending him, but this seems like an unserious track to pursue

#

you were the one that brought up power classes 🤷

smoky notch
#

yea

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because i'm explaining what trolldier is

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and what he's good at

jagged pawn
#

pretty condescending to assume that's necessary which is why I'm trying to exit the conversation

smoky notch
#

iyss

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arrivederci

left sand
#

you said this

image.png
#

its not intentionally playing badly

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its a viable play style

smoky notch
#

not even just that

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trolldier isn't sandbagging at all

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trolldier involves some of the most expressive and complicated movement in any game ever

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he gets one kill at a time, sure, but a soldier flying from one side of the map to the other over and over again, hardly ever dying, uncontested shutting down anything other than a sentry isn't playing badly

left sand
#

yep its like a one shot scout with even more mobility

zealous pond
#

I like Trolldiers.

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They're great for boosting my numbers.

orchid sorrel
#

trolldier is unironically good in my mvm missions

summer steeple
#

got some funny ragdolls

pl_thundermountain0001.png pl_swiftwater_final10002.png
orchid sorrel
#

this guys cheating in community mvm wasntme

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theres not even a medal for playing this

left sand
zealous pond
#

Anyone here play with a 13900k?

orchid sorrel
high current
#

Mcoms, would you have any objections to me making a hud panel that integrates with comfig settings? Like an in-game comfig app?
Probably not for actual use in my hud because I’m out of well behaved deprecated panels, but just for funsies.

left sand
#

i don't see why i would have objections

#

but thanks for asking for permission!

orchid sorrel
paper sluice
orchid sorrel
high current
# paper sluice that'd be so cool

Glad you think so. Thanks to the modularity of Comfig, it should be fairly reasonable to actually get done using console logging, which I've gotten pretty good at by now. Of course the difficulty will probably come in deciding on functionality details and maybe some unforeseen challenges because... Source✨. Will probably also be a chance to experiment with some of the expandable list elements that are hidden in VGUI code.
I think I wanna keep the UI code for it fairly generalized so I can slot it into wherever I want it, or maybe share it if I manage to get it is polished enough.

#

One idea was a super minimal one or two element mini-hud that people could install for trying out the different customization options in real-ish time. Then including some kind of button to disable the mini-hud so it doesn't conflict with other things. Not sure I have enough time to figure out how to make a self-uninstalling hud though...
Though that also opens up the question of, why not just use the app at that point. Though I'm not necessarily going for something useful, just something fun to make.

orchid sorrel
limpid panther
#

making an engineer carry the tools of its natural enemy

orchid sorrel
#

Fun little interaction, successful saps count towards FJ crits

left sand
formal dew
#

He's back

orchid sorrel
#

Return of the king

high current
#

Did they ever respond to wutville being the most hated map in the game? Not that they need to, I’m just curious how someone takes that level of outrage.

crisp cedar
#

i remember following them a bit when wutville was released

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but iirc they responded by saying that they didnt even want this map in the game and that it was just in the workshop just cuz

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dont remember the detials

orchid sorrel
#

Valve gave him like 3 weeks to get the map ready for smissmas

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And by this time he has already left the game for years, on top of working an actual professional industry job

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After the release he was making updates and slowly improving things but i assume he got caught up in life stuff

high current
#

That’s fair. I think if you didn’t want your map in the game you could probably ask them to pull it. But I could understand you might feel pressured to just suck it up and polish the turd or might get a wave of pseudo-inspiration from valve accepting your map.

radiant merlin
#

there must be a tag in workshop called "VALVE PLZ DONT ADD THIS MAP I MADE IT'S SUPER LAME"

high current
#

I think it’s interesting there can be workshop stuff like concept art. Like how is someone going to rewrite the entire UI system in tf2 in 3 weeks if that UI overhaul concept got accepted? I don’t think valve would accept it for that reason (among others), but I still think there should be a proper place for concept art.

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Cuz I don’t think concept art doesn’t have a place, but I don’t think the current workshop format is the place for it.

jagged pawn
summer steeple
#

its hard to turn down money

jagged pawn
limpid panther
hoary geyser
#

payload

limpid panther
#

will be posting the results shortly

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mastercomfig low preset vs lod module levels

Figure_1.png Figure_1.png Figure_1.png Figure_1.png mastercomfig_low_20_lod.svg
#

mastercomfig low preset vs effects module levels

Figure_1.png Figure_1.png Figure_1.png Figure_1.png mastercomfig_low_20_effects.svg
#

mastercomfig low preset vs lighting module levels

Figure_1.png Figure_1.png Figure_1.png Figure_1.png mastercomfig_low_20_lighting.svg
#

this is all for now.

#

I actually tested every module that I though could meaningfully impact performance, but since the testing took a long time, the system's state drifted enough that the baseline run done at the beginning wasn't compatible anymore, even though I close and reopen the game for every test

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this is an example of the INVALID runs I started to get:

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this is something to be considered when benchmarking with not many CPU cores, because if Windows decides to do something in the middle of the night, performance changes and there is not much I can do to fix it

high current
#

Yeh it’s pretty hard to isolate variables entirely in a computer. I think best you could conceivably do is fully disconnected from internet and maybe restart between tests. If you wanted to be dummy thorough you’d maybe want ample time after restarting for thermals to stabilize.

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But I think a better method is just run a control before+after, then have a margin of error with that taken into account. But I’m not a data scientist.

limpid panther
#

I think running a baseline for each job is enough, unless the job is too large (too many tests) in which case you would want to break it up in smaller jobs anyways

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I also think that performance improved over the night because the ambient temperature decreased a lot during that night specially (15°C change over 6 hours)

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this laptop is not specially thermally constrained over a hard surface, but I did close the lid, which might be why it became worst due to where the exhausts are located

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all around benchmarking on a low-end system is much more difficult than a high end system because any little thing affects the results by a lot

#

still, these results are very interesting. Specially effects and lighting

high current
#

Started working on the in-hud version of the Comfig web app I mentioned a few days ago. This was my progress for the first day of working on it, which is a skeleton outline of like 15% of the options, but the bulk of effort was design decisions.
At first I wanted to replicate the app's look as closely as possible, but without the ability to have expandable lists I had to substitute miniatures scrollable panels, at which point it had to look different enough that I went ahead and took some creative liberties. Not totally happy with the look yet, but progress. I'll probably add a dark background to the presets to even out the feel of the panel.

The eventual functionality is that the main dark panel is scrollable like the web page, then just scroll through the same as the webpage, select what you want, press save, and it applies settings and generates a modules.cfg for the user to put in the correct place.

20230510162139_1.jpg
jagged pawn
#

oooooooo

summer steeple
high current
#

I noticed that on the website. I'll correct it. I caught the no spaces at least

craggy ridge
#

LMAO

#

THIS IS FUCKING ISNANE

#

i am so impressed

smoky notch
#

i might have to switch to modding xhud again

craggy ridge
#

yeah dove I can't stand mastercomfig either, truly the downfall of xhud....

#

you just lost 2 very faithful xhud users today peaches

smoky notch
#

what

#

i was using a modified version of cutehud

craggy ridge
#

that's practically xhud tbf, just switch the word cute with an "x"

small sirenBOT
#

*that's practically

xhud tbf, just switch the

word cute with an "x"*

- Puddin
smoky notch
#

peachhud is xhud with peach instead of x too

craggy ridge
#

Actually that would be XHUD, quite different from Xhud

#

smh....

smoky notch
#

yea caps lock vs shift

craggy ridge
#

in tf2

smoky notch
#

shift

craggy ridge
#

wow

#

I use capslock

smoky notch
#

unhealthy

craggy ridge
#

how

high current
#

Funnily I don’t intend to ship this with Xhud, as shown. I’m sorta out of toggleable menus that I can just write over, so I’m using the MOTD panel that pops up every time you exit a game, which is too intrusive to actually ship.
But the code for the menu is pretty generalized so I might make an add on for it or add it to peachhud or share it. Right now it’s mostly just for fun

smoky notch
#

i said so

summer steeple
#

i despise using capslock for anything because of the fact that it toggles caps

craggy ridge
#

will you believe me if I say

#

that I double tap capslock

summer steeple
#

yeah i hate doing that

craggy ridge
#

to add caps in the beginning of sentences

summer steeple
#

WHAT

high current
craggy ridge
#

when i was a little child baby stinky pee poo

#

i didn't know what shift did

#

so I just got used to double tapping capslock to capitalize the first letter of the sentence

summer steeple
#

omg

craggy ridge
#

capslock as a crouch button is so underrated

image.png
#

it's on the side of A

summer steeple
#

if it didn't also do caps lock i would agree with you

craggy ridge
#

ctrl users are psychos tho

left sand
#

esdf

summer steeple
#

i'm too used to control

craggy ridge
summer steeple
#

plus i use shift for hold binds

craggy ridge
#

tbf i played with drfg for a long time

#

on my old keyboard

high current
#

I’ve been debating switching to using shift as backwards. But atm shift is crouch.

craggy ridge
#

my W key broke

#

because I pressed it too much

#

then I started using esdf

#

E broke too

summer steeple
#

bru

craggy ridge
#

so I spent like 2 months using drfg

left sand
#

deep rock f galactic

orchid sorrel
#

ive been itching to play

#

maybe when finals are over

crisp cedar
#

i despise when games force me to press my mouse wheel so i just rebind to alt

summer steeple
#

yeah i hate mouse wheel clicking

#

partially because my old mouse would sometimes swap weapons when i did it

#

and my old old mouse would unlock when i pressed it

#

so it would have no friction

crisp cedar
#

mouse wheels should never be clickable

#

forbidden key

craggy ridge
craggy ridge
summer steeple
#

actually i do use the mouse wheel click in tf2

#

because i disabled the mouse wheel scroll

#

side buttons are primary melee, mouse wheel button is secondary

#

disguise kit is still 4 trollfig

craggy ridge
#

I use 2 and 3 for secondary and melee

#

and then I have both middle mouse wheel click

#

and mousewheel scroll

#

to primary

crisp cedar
high current
cursive peak
#

I use Mouse3 for "Thanks" and have reload unbound.

crisp cedar
limpid panther
#

do you have any cool ideas for Conscientious objector?

#

I have one to make

potent wolf
alpine gyroBOT
potent wolf
#

put that on the sign

craggy ridge
paper sluice
#

This makes me violent

craggy ridge
#

@limpid panther put this on the sign

jagged pawn
#

it's insane how who toucha my spaghet was big for like 3 days and then instantly died when people realized there was no way to expand on it

slender nexus
#

put a trans flag on the objector

jagged pawn
#

put a trans flag

cursive peak
jagged pawn
#

babe new shounic vid

cursive peak
#

I've known about that sign for years.

#

I've deliberately airblasted people into it before.

mystic turtle
#

That is evil

#

And I thought airblasting defenders off of snowycoast last was bad enough

cursive peak
#

Sometimes you just want the cocaine fueled Scout to stand still.

#

Or you know the player is an asshole and deserves it.

slender nexus
#

aka the average spy main

cursive peak
#

I have ruined at least one backstab by airblasting the Spy into the sign.

#

Even more evil is to stick someone in the sign and then just leave them.

#

Oh, I also know of a spot on Goldrush where I can burn things through a wall.

left sand
zealous pond
#

lol

summer steeple
#

man

#

i worked really hard to finish up the layout for the next version of my map

#

i open it up in game

#

its shiiiiiiiiiiiiit

#

and now i'm not sure how to improve it

#

I could just test it as is but like

#

its terrible

spare obsidian
#

feedback

#

you could release your map into an alpha release and look for feedback about the layout

jagged pawn
#

let us playtest it fr

summer steeple
#

no like i've tested it before its just that I was trying to figure out if i should make changes to this new version rn or test it as is

#

I asked in another server and got a bit of feedback so i'm a bit more comfortable testing it with some new changes

cursive peak
tacit flare
summer steeple
#

oh thats not even a concern

#

i was just like "wow I think this is confusing and claustrophobic and i think i want to change it"

#

and speaking of wutville

#

he's back working on it

#

been showing a lot of progress

#

even improving the visuals to be less uhhh

craggy ridge
#

I said that my tf2's looks are inspired by untitled goose game and someone just replied with this

untitled-goose-game-is-getting-co-op-steam-itch-september.png bad.png
summer steeple
#

so hopefully by smissmas this year wutville will get its comeback update

#

(i have been saying this for 2 smissmasses now)

cursive peak
#

Is there even anything redeemable about Wutville?

#

Like, if it was themed like Badwater or Upward, would anyone even give a shit about it?

summer steeple
#

I mean the layout is the biggest issue

#

but that seems to be getting updated too

#

well actually thinking about it

#

literally like everything was a problem

#

layout, performance, visuals were probably the least egregious thing

small sirenBOT
#

layout, performance,

visuals were probably the

least egregious thing

- fiend
summer steeple
#

but it is a map thats in the game

#

and if it can become better, thats great

jagged pawn
#

yeah it's already there so I'm really happy an update is getting pushed

high current
#

I wonder how much you could change a map and valve would accept it as an “update”. Like if they just made it an entirely new map with the same name would valve just be like “yeh sounds good”

formal dew
#

Yes

#

Hazmat headcase

paper sluice
spare obsidian
#

they have to acept it

#

literally a map that a dude made years ago some random dev say: "fuck it, least add it" and gave 3 weeks to polish the map

#

one thing that the open letter that didn't mentioned is how little time frame valve gaves to map makers to polish their map when it gets approved

summer steeple
#

probably because most map makers submit to the workshop when the map is ready to be added

#

rather than unfinished

spare obsidian
#

the case of wutville is that map was made like? years before valve decided to add it without any notification

#

like the guy did that map before and move with his life

jagged pawn
#

yeah you absolutely cannot blame the dev for it

#

it was classic valve incompetence, there's plenty of garbage that people will put on the workshop for various reasons and it's valve's job to act as the filter. they failed

radiant merlin
#

valve can see cp_2points and say "yes this is a good map let's add it"

spare obsidian
#

i hate or i understand wrong fiend comment but

#

from what i interpreted you can't blame the creator of the map, like how I'm supposed to know that my shitty ass 4 old map is going to be added without myself being notified? lol

summer steeple
spare obsidian
#

Chef

summer steeple
#

really i think the big issue is that there's only one workshop

#

there really should be a section for "please add to the game" and a section for "just uploading it for the hell of it"

spare obsidian
#

technically two if you count tf2 mapping net

summer steeple
#

i meant officially

#

if you want to count other sites there's tf2m, gamebanana, probably more

spare obsidian
#

tbf valve should just use the item approval for maps

high current
#

Valve should do a lot of things. But they have notoriously selective hearing.

smoky notch
jagged pawn
#

I definitely think being able to add a "release candidate" tag to a map would be sick that way they actually know what's being submitted for them? but they'd probably just ignore it if they found a map they really liked

high current
#

Just remove horrendous maps from the game and you don’t need to worry about the quality of maps you add. Map Darwinism

radiant merlin
#

bye bye junction

craggy ridge
#

i've told this idea a couple of times

#

valve could hold contests for creators to make their own take on bad designed maps that are already on the game

#

and add the ones that significantly improve gameplay experience

potent wolf
#

replace all the maps with itemtest

radiant merlin
#

nah the csgo way is better

high current
#

I don’t actually think map Darwinism is a good idea. But deleting junk maps from the game isn’t a bad idea imo. It’s not going to happen, but like the amount Halloween or Christmas map bloat is absurd. If you want to add limited time maps with a low bar for admission, then have them be TRULY limited, not increasingly more painful with each year.

jagged pawn
craggy ridge
#

As opposed to "well this map sucks lets remove it" maps are part of the game and they aren't immune to criticism and improvement

spare obsidian
#

like if criticism in the community was always good trollfig

craggy ridge
#

Yeonmi: "In North Korean TF2 servers you are obligated to play using the sixes meta, any loadout deviance or off class will lead to the secret moderator team that the admin Kim Jong-Un has to instantly ban you and force you and your family to idle on empty servers for Scrap Metal."

Joe: "Wow."

FwACLjsaIAIZ6m7.png FwCGtxpXwAA34ZD.png
formal dew
#

so true

paper sluice
#

Did this come to you in a dream

tacit flare
#

I can respect his desire to update the map, but I can't respect his decision to approve it's use when he fully well knew it was nowhere near ready for release.

crisp cedar
#

i can respect the decision to approve it's use

#

you have to respect the hustle

#

its worth the money

high current
#

I wonder how much Valve actually pays map makers up front. Or if it’s all through map stamps.

Like if they give you $100 then tbh it probably isn’t worth the constant berating you’d receive from people. A lot of people are aggressive as hell about it and probably won’t ever let this person live that down.

summer steeple
#

i want to say i’ve heard that there’s an upfront payment, plus maybe a cut of the updates profits (cases, keys, etc.) altho that might just be for item creators, and then also map stamps

#

plus eric goes out of his way to buy a bunch of map stamps for every map that gets added

formal dew
#

nice

summer steeple
#

like if you look at the leaderboard (yes there is one) there’s a high chance he’s either the top 1 or within top 5 or 10

#

iirc he buys like 60

#

and i think that comes out of his own pocket

orchid sorrel
#

Map filters also go to the map creator

summer steeple
#

oh i didn't know that

#

also apparently eric buys 94 stamps

#

some older maps have people who buy like 200

#

but most of them hes at the top

#

just change the filter at the top to check out all the maps

formal dew
#

real

summer steeple
#

so basically thats upfront payment + $94 out of pocket from eric + update cut (?) + map filters and map stamps bought by other players

#

and honestly if you want to look at "leaked" stuff (and by leaked i mean valve forgor to make it hidden) I want to say people found the upfront payments given to CS:GO mappers and its very clearly much higher than TF2 but you can still kind of extrapolate how much

#

on an unrelated note, is teamwork.tf down or is my browser acting up

potent wolf
summer steeple
#

ah cool

#

I just decided to check it out for the first time in a while and it was down and recently my browser addon settings reset (for some of them) so i wasn't sure if it was on my end or not

spare obsidian
#

would be ideally if valve separated valve create content (tf) to its own separated folder that the gameinfo mounts (tf_community)?

summer steeple
#

isn't it already separated in the VPKs?

formal dew
#

I believe that happened in jungle inferno

jagged pawn
#

also I feel like I'm misunderstanding the "separate valve content" message but if you're saying it should be listed separately in the casual menu then pls no. people don't realize that all the best maps in the game are community made, they only think about the occasional trash. valve maps are largely mid

spare obsidian
potent wolf
#

why though?

formal dew
#

Somewhat related

#

Why didn't valve change tf2 so that all the files are in one archive of vpks like CSGO and dota2 instead of seperate ones for textures, sounds etc

#

was it set up like this before steampipe/vpks

cursive peak
#

About the map payments, I heard you got like $5-10k up front.

wild grove
slender nexus
#

||oh shit steel is actually a community map||

tacit flare
# jagged pawn it's so funny when people say this as if they would even hesitate to say "yes ad...

Then that's a something that makes me different then. No amount of money and fixes is ever going to remove the absolute clusterfuck that was the original release from the memory of the internet. No amount of money is worth having 90% TF2 community shitting on you for releasing it forevermore. There is a difference between a "mid" map and an unplaytested unfinished beta map that crashes peoples games.

summer steeple
#

I mean you can say you won't take the money as much as you want but as soon as you're actually faced with that money things change

#

not specifically pointed at you

#

just in general

formal dew
#

plus he can get that mapping work on his curriculum vitae

summer steeple
#

I mean in the case of wutville the dude already has a massive portfolio so it doesn't matter as much but for other mappers...

formal dew
#

oh

summer steeple
#

like that dude founded polycount

jagged pawn
tacit flare
jagged pawn
#

I mean. getting a good map added to the game will also lead to constant harassment, because millions of people play this game and that inevitably leads to idiots

tacit flare
#

And you know what makes it worse?

#

Every Smissmass, it will be showcased again, people will be reminded about it again.

potent wolf
#

Do you actually think the author anticipated all of this?

jagged pawn
#

I guess? but iirc the guy doesn't even play tf2 anymore so he doesn't see 99% of it right

high current
summer steeple
#

tbh i wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason he did accept it is spite, because back when tf2maps tests were uh... not as great, they would just not test the map because it wasn't great

#

which lead to a bit of an unceremonious "fuck this community" from him

tacit flare
summer steeple
#

I mean, he's been talking about improving it since its been added

#

it very clearly comes and goes

tacit flare
#

If he could pull a No Mans Sky, I'd be impressed. But that's a long road.

small sirenBOT
#

*If he could pull a

No Mans Sky, I'd be impressed.

But that's a long road.*

- Alibi
high current
#

Honestly it’d be so much work to improve it.

high current
summer steeple
#

no man's sky is a good game now

tacit flare
summer steeple
#

after its absolutely god awful launch

tacit flare
#

Basically, the one time a game company completely screwed up their game launch but actually spent years of time afterwards to make up for it.

#

Does that improvement also mean a fundamental redesign of the entire map? Because those 10,000 mile sightlines need to go.

summer steeple
#

likely

high current
orchid sorrel
#

He probably barely remembered the map until after the fact

#

And im sure in his mind that if valve liked it then there must be something worth salvaging

spare obsidian
#

yeah

high current
#

I mean yeh, at the end of the day Valve is the one that added it to the game. But also can you really be mad at the single potted plant keeping the game updated?

orchid sorrel
#

it was so weird to just suddenly start getting christmas maps out of nowhere

#

with no prior announcement either

radiant merlin
formal dew
#

thank

radiant merlin
#

tf2 isn't a game per-se, but rather a heavily modified "mod" of hl2

high current
#

Isn't hl2 just a heavily modified quake though

radiant merlin
#

and quake is a heavily modified doom

high current
#

Doom is just a heavily modified calculator.

spare obsidian
#

you wanna know what's funny? @radiant merlin @summer steeple tf2 has a fully working 3person camera (cam_thirdperson.cpp) that basically deprecates the old thirdperson command, and itsn't a cheat

radiant merlin
#

tf_medieval_thirdperson

spare obsidian
#

yeah but the taunt system uses the old system

#

that's funny on its own lol

#

that was something i really wanted to create PR for

crisp cedar
#

quake > goldsrc > source > source 2

formal dew
#

source cloud

crisp cedar
#

also tf2 is more based on css than hl2

#

or atleast the final iteration

formal dew
#

Interesting

summer steeple
#

honestly i feel like its not fair to be like "oh this game is a mod of a game" because like

#

thats like saying every UE game is a mod of the unreal engine

#

like of course companies are going to reuse code from previous games

#

to me a mod of a game is usually unofficial, or at least not affiliated with the company who made the game

#

altho there's still gray area

#

with source mods its very much like... well

#

a lot of them aren't really mods at all

smoky notch
#

how do we define a mod

craggy ridge
#

Someone who moderates

smoky notch
#

D:

left sand
#

a mod does not produce its own executable

high current
#

Tf2 still shows up as hl2.exe👀

grim parcel
potent wolf
summer steeple
#

only on older branches

#

starting with either portal 2 or AS they have their own exe names

potent wolf
#

hl2.exe isn't even really the main launcher, it just loads launcher.dll

left sand
#

tf2 produces an hl2.exe

#

it doesnt use the one from HL2

orchid sorrel
#

would anybody want to help beta test an update to a reverse mvm mission?

summer steeple
#

using r_showenvcubemaps is so interesting to me for some reason

#

there's so many models and props that use the cubemap that you'd never notice because its so subtle

#

like this wood barrel prop

image.png
#

bop, cubemap

image.png
#

the second thing i noticed that i probably should've known already is that cubemaps look pretty good on surfaces that are more rounded, like barrels but absolutely terrible on flat surfaces

paper sluice
#

why is that barrel using a cubemap wtf
maybe for the metal bits but i cant see it in the screenshot
maybe cuz your settings are too low or something

#

same with the nails on the box

summer steeple
#

the problem is that the places where cubemaps are most noticeable is glass materials, which uh... look not good

#

yeah i don't know what about it is using cubemaps

#

there's tons of models that use it but i have no clue what its for

#

hm thats odd

#

the vmt for that barrel is just this

image.png
#

maybe its a vertexlitgeneric thing?

#

or just a r_envcubemap bug

#

it shows cubemaps on like every single model

#

actually it might be every model

#

r_showenvcubemap moment lol

#

regardless, it cubemaps do look actually pretty damn good when its not a flat surface

image.png
#

all the cubemaps on pier are 32x

#

but i never would've guessed from this

#

but then you look at a flat surface and oh god

image.png
#

honestly cubemaps are used so little in tf2 that you could probably get away with just not having them in most of your map

#

since they removed the cubemap reflection on the sniper rifle scope (intentional? bug?) around gun mettle iirc

#

if you don't see errors, you don't need cubemaps trollfig

#

sidenote while looking around the VDC i just found that the vtfedit page has this link, which is like, yeah i know about it already

image.png
#

but there's a secret to this

#

@paper sluice

image.png
#

its specifically yours

paper sluice
#

All I did was compile and make it public it even existed ‼️‼️‼️
But someone did make a PR with some new features which I added so it makes me feel less guilty of stealing from joshua ashton trollfig

summer steeple
#

I actually saw someone in the tf2m discord was working on some improvements to it, idk if it was based on your fork tho

paper sluice
#

Might not be but I’ve seen other forks

#

One added proper Linux support which I’ve been trying to PR into mine by I hate visual studio I’m gonna kill visual studio

summer steeple
#

oh it actually is

#

you know how i know

paper sluice
#

How

summer steeple
#

because its already a PR on your repo lol

image.png
paper sluice
#

Oh lolo

#

yeah thats the same person i was talking about that added some new features earlier

radiant merlin
summer steeple
#

oh was it l4d2? mb

radiant merlin
#

ficool is now making a cod gamemode

orchid sorrel
#

found this in a casual match just now

formal dew
#

zamn

summer steeple
#

max's severed head wasn't community made was it? so that was a telltale dev?

#

pretty cool

warped plume
#

i want to download every mod with the community fix tag

mystic turtle
#

too bad it will not work on sv_pure 1

warped plume
mystic turtle
#

you should be punching Gaben, not me
don't shoot the messenger

high current
radiant merlin
#

finally managed to make people playtest my map. turns out the mode was ok but people complained because it was turbine lol

#

yeah maybe i should have chosen 2fort instead

#

or a koth map

smoky notch
#

@radiant merlin harvest is an easy one if you want nobody to whine

left sand
#

why do people think valve hasn't done anything

#

like they've delivered on pretty much all their promises

high current
#

I wouldn’t say valve is. A singular contractor has delivered on just enough of valve’s promises to keep people from rioting

#

The biggest gripe of the save tf2 thing was just the down right rampant cheaters. And valve accidentally messed them up with a single update and they’ve since come back to basically original levels.

Yeh we got a response from the mapper community’s request, but that wasn’t valve taking the initiative to do something, that was the creator community begging them to accept quality stuff that they deliver to valve on a silver platter

#

Idk, when I’ve worked with people and they’ve REALLY messed up, to a comparable degree as Valves blatant neglectfulness in the face of the cheating and other issues in tf2. If they do just the bare minimum to right their wrongs, it just isn’t enough, all you’re doing is showing that you don’t want to get called out. If you go beyond just what people call you out for then you show you’ve taken the time to understand the grievances people had at a foundational level. And Valve hasn’t done the latter, they’ve arguably even delivered on the minimum.

jagged pawn
#

Yeh we got a response from the mapper community’s request, but that wasn’t valve taking the initiative to do something, that was the creator community begging them to accept quality stuff that they deliver to valve on a silver platter
isn't the claim that they were already working on the announcement and they just pushed it out faster due to the coincidental demand overlap

high current
#

I mean I can claim that I was planning on publishing the theory of general relativity before Einstein, but he just got to it faster.

#

The only people that know if Valve’s claim is true is Valve.

left sand
#

valve employees work on tf2

#

they didnt just "mess them up" once

#

theyve done so much to mitigate and prevent the bot issue

#

also they were planning a bigger summer update since even before the mapping community requested anything

high current
#

I’m not aware of anything specifically done other than just making the game essentially not free to play anymore. Again I could be wrong, but the fact they haven’t said anything recently and the bot population is on the rise again isn’t a good look.
And say as much as you want about intention, if perception isn’t good then intention is mute.

left sand
#

the bot population has been greatly decreased

#

perception is just lazy valve hate

#

it's just a bunch of assumptions from people who dont even play on casual

high current
# left sand valve employees work on tf2

I’ll take your word on that because I know you’re more in the know about Valve than I am. But if I’m a casual tf2 player not in this server, then my only perception is “where tf2 content”

left sand
#

yes but people make up problems

#

im not saying the game is perfect

high current
#

I play on casual almost exclusively now that I’m not scrimming and bots have been on the rise seemingly. It may just be that I was spoiled by them being broken recently, but there is less vocal response from valve and increasing bot existence. So my perception is that the bot problem is back to being unaddressed again.

left sand
#

it's just wrong that things are being blown out of proportion or completely made up, just because people are frustrated about the lack of content and people think complaining about a dire state of the game will get valve to update the game

#

i dont know about the last 2 weeks or so

#

and that's understandable, they've been busy with cs2 and a big dota update, and preparing the summer update

#

but they were actively working on it before

#

and this is the thing

#

there is no final solution to the bots

#

theres no off switch

#

you just have to mitigate the bad actors

high current
#

I don’t think the game is in a dire state. But I think it’s at a point where things should be addressed and they aren’t right now. Is what I’m saying.
Also I have quite a few friends that try TF2 every 6 months when I convince them to give it another shot and every time the consensus from their relatively-first impression is “this game isn’t updated and hackers are oppressive”

left sand
#

i feel like a lot of peoples impressions are from social media and news articles

#

because of the community making stuff up

#

at least, all my friends who dont play tf2 feel that

summer steeple
#

the biggest issue i think with the bots and cheaters right now is how blatant they are, but i highly doubt thats an easy fix because who knows how old the version of VAC the game is running on is, updating it would probably be a nightmare

jagged pawn
# left sand the bot population has been greatly decreased

no matter how empirically true this is if I boot up tf2 and literally cannot play that's a huge problem. when a large amount of people boot up tf2 and run into 5 hackers in their first lobby they are naturally going to assume the problem is being ignored even if the likelihood of that happening is lower now

#

like it's improved but not in a way that is noticeable to the average player (in that playing against 5 hackers is indistinguishable from playing against 12)

high current
# left sand i feel like a lot of peoples impressions are from social media and news articles

Then Valve needs to provide counter examples.

Push a ban wave of the obvious spin botters that is compiled in one data base on the bot detector GitHub for you. Then post some self aware meme on Twitter and say you’ve increased anticheat measures. You don’t actually have to do anything to anticheat, just make TennisTimmy2017 uninstall his closet cheats. Blatant closet cheaters are also wayyyy on the rise, probably cuz they figure if racial-slur-spamming spin bots can get past vac, so can their cheats. Make that untrue.

Release some patch notes to Twitter. Send a bigger patch and a $100 bill to some intern at IGN to get some positive press.

If the only people who know that you’re doing something is people in custom config discords, or people with a decade of game experience that can speak “Valve update language”, then it doesn’t matter if you’re doing anything to 99% of the player base.

#

The community does carry TF2s perception because Valve doesn’t put ANY effort into rebutting bad press. The TF2 community has to speak on their behalf, and even then, most the time it’s just “trust me, they’re working hard”.
Blizzard currently has more to show for in their scrapped PVE than Valve has in TF2, and look at the reception of OW2’s PVE announcement.

slender nexus
high current
#

I don’t necessarily think that’s true.
Many casual people probably don’t care about fixing things shounic makes videos about, which is 50% of most updates. But I think a good number of people respect that bug fixes and optimizations are still good content.

But as the mapping community pointed out recently, Valve has a system for adding new QUALITY maps to the game. They just only use it twice a year and on some of the most egregiously bad maps.
Other than that we just get hats, which no one has cared about since like 2015.

#

Not that people don’t care about hats, but they don’t care about the 40 new hats added in every update.

crisp cedar
high current
#

I think the update problem is really just a publicity issue. People respect stability patches, just make them more public. Add a shiny version number somewhere. Use Twitter or YouTube and just release a short going over the patch notes, like the community does for you

high current
# crisp cedar > Then Valve needs to provide counter examples. counterargument - why? (note: t...

So public perception isn’t bad.
Bad public reception scares away new potential players. New potential players like the hats you vomit into the game and spend money.
More real players also dilutes bots and closet cheaters. So you have to do less about that and get better results.
New players also give content creators more viewers and more potential content to make. More viewers and content makes content creators more money, which means you have to do less and get more positive press.

#

Public reception is like a fly wheel. You put energy into it to get it up to a good speed then it coasts well for little effort.

crisp cedar
#

this would be very compelling if valve didn't own steam

high current
#

Exactly. I’m not saying Valve needs to do it.
I’m saying Valve doesn’t do it, like people have been asking them to do.

crisp cedar
#

to me a lot of tf2 fans vs valve discourse is just a mob of angry people swinging their fists at a brick wall

#

sure, you can do that

#

but outsiders would think that eventually you would get tired of swinging your fist at a brick wall

high current
#

Or like they promised or alluded to in response to the save tf2 stuff.
So they haven’t really delivered on their promises. They started making steps in the right direction, then just sorta stopped until the map community pulled their arm again.

crisp cedar
#

yet they're proven wrong

#

what if the summer update is their response

high current
#

What if it is.
Idk I’m excited for the update even though I’m just sorta expecting some decent maps and maybe some neat vscript applications and hopefully some minor optimizations.

It’s definitely a response. But again, it’s basically just because the map community begged them to and handed them content on a silver platter.
Supposedly they had planned to do it anyway. But cool, you didn’t announce it until people pulled your arm, great PR management

spare obsidian
#

People would never get happy, not matter how much you feed them, they would still whine and cry all the time

#

this is all just a lost cause

high current
#

It circles back to my earlier point of “doing the minimum to right your wrongs doesn’t impress people.”
Take some initiative if you want to show that you’ve listened to people’s grievances.

Again, Valve has a money printer, so they’re not going to

#

Okay people aren’t scrolling up to what sparked this conversation. Let me find it

#

#1072696252162117752 message
I’m addressing this.

left sand
#
  • Updated the legacy Steam API used in TF2 to the latest version to take advantage of the latest Steam security features, this was a huge amount of legacy code reworking
  • Added Steam text filtering
  • Did several VAC ban waves for bots and cheaters
  • Fixed various text chat exploits
  • Improved vote kick system
  • Fixed various exploits/cheats that were possible in the game through dozens of security patches
  • Adding long standing popular maps into the game as part of Smissmas
  • Adding many cosmetics into the game
#
  • Added a whole VScript API to allow for full modding of the game without need for any TF2 source code leaks. VScript is the most robust in TF2 (better than CSGO). This also added numerous customization and mapping improvements to the game. This was added in December 2022 after modding capabilities were promised to Open Fortress & TF2 Classic November 2021.
spare obsidian
#

And yet people still will say that's nothing compared to what jungle inferno is

#

idk, people is just... dumb

cursive peak
#

Pretty sure the community has worked itself into a frenzy about what they want and how things should be and it's wildly off compared to what we can realistically expect.

#

I don't think the community at large will be satisfied with any update to ever come out, no matter how lavish.

#

And will berate anyone who's fine with what we do get.

left sand
#

For more detail, here is every single patch meaningfully improving the state of the game (fixing lots of bugs, exploits, cheats, bots, etc):

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/June_16,_2020_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/June_24,_2020_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/July_3,_2020_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/August_21,_2020_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/August_27,_2020_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/October_1,_2020_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/December_3,_2020_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/December_9,_2020_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/June_22,_2021_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/September_16,_2021_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/October_5,_2021_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/October_27,_2021_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/November_15,_2021_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/December_2,_2021_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/December_17,_2021_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/March_28,_2022_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/June_21,_2022_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/July_7,_2022_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/September_26,_2022_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/October_12,_2022_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/December_1,_2022_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/December_6,_2022_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/December_7,_2022_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/January_5,_2023_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/March_1,_2023_Patch
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/March_20,_2023_Patch

June 16, 2020 Patch
June 24, 2020 Patch
July 3, 2020 Patch
August 21, 2020 Patch
August 27, 2020 Patch
#

Valve does NOT need more marketing for TF2

#

Their marketing is sufficient

#

People just forget how bad things were before

summer steeple
#

god i just remembered the other day that they added votes being per team rather than 1 vote for the entire server

#

like that helped the bot issue so much

left sand
#

Remember when the chat was just flooded with bots changing team names, spamming chat messages (with slurs), changing names to match you, bypassing kick entirely, crashing/lagging the server regularly, mass amounts of bots coordinating together, preventing votes from being called

#

All of that is fixed

#

the bot problem is relatively minor now

summer steeple
#

for a game essentially on life support they did do a lot

left sand
#

Everyone knew at the time

#

that these issues were there

#

and that they were fixed

#

it's not a communication issue

#

everyone knows this

#

but they just forget

#

and complain for no reason

spare obsidian
#

"but if it was knew why didn't they fixed in the first place?"

left sand
#

if you wanna know an actually dead game, look at Titanfall 2

small sirenBOT
#

*if you wanna know

an actually dead game, look

at Titanfall 2*

- mcoms
left sand
#

the hackers for that game make it literally unplayable without a custom client

#

people like to pretend that like

#

oh valve's way of operating makes them greedy, they just print money with hats and steam lulz

#

but then they forget literally every other game dev

hoary geyser
#

I remember a bit after I started playing in 2020 that text and voice chat were basically unusable

high current
left sand
#

Clearly not, the overwhelming opinion is that Valve has done nothing

#

and it's really tiring

hybrid cloud
#

i think it's a combination of factors, like how tf2 players are a revolving door so many of them expect new stuff because they haven't been around as long as we think and also that games nowadays tend to require constant content updates in order to stay relevant and keep players playing

#

sometimes it feels like not many people want to play for playing's sake so they pretend valve hasn't done anything when all they really want are new weapons

left sand
#

tf2 has always had churn since it went f2p

orchid sorrel
#

arguably even before f2p

#

its a deceptively daunting game for new players

cursive peak
#

Eh, even a fresh install can spam rockets and get a kill.

jagged pawn
#

rare high moments

jagged pawn
crisp cedar
#

theres no way theres ppl playing tf2c

#

lowest standards of all time

summer steeple
#

i mean it gets updates so

#

i assume someone plays it

hybrid cloud
#

people play it for the updates so it's like half dead 90% of the time

slender nexus
# cursive peak Pretty sure the community has worked itself into a frenzy about what they want a...

I remember seeing a post about how the community's expectations for an update will always be higher than what the devs will deliver at any given time
It was basically posited as a slippery slope argument
the community won't ever be content with a small creator's pack featuring top rated cosmetics from the workshop, they'll want weapon reskins, then they'll want new unique weapons, and they'll start asking for new weapons for every class for every slot
More valve maps, more community maps, new game modes (either valve gamemodes or ported community gamemodes like VSH), must come with a comic, an SFM short, or SFM movie
there'll always be some who assume from the "update-sized update" blogpost that valve will suddenly be pulling all the stops as if they were revitalized into developing TF2

cursive peak
#

I don't think the community has been satisfied with an update since the one before End of the Line.

hybrid cloud
#

the update sized update fiasco is so silly because updates come in so many shapes and sizes

cursive peak
#

Literally every update is update sized.

hybrid cloud
#

it could mean literally anything and it just told me a good portion of people just want new weapons and a splash page i think

grim parcel
#

Summary:

Shots 1-5: Clearly missed.
Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control).
Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses.
Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because Hiko was already dead.

jagged pawn
#

like if you're expecting unanimous praise then that literally isn't possible

#

you're definitely right about the other updates in that window though. people have come around on gun mettle and tough break but man people were NOT happy at the time

crisp cedar
#

if only they knew what was to come

wild grove
cursive peak
#

EOTL was a community update.

#

The SFM short itself was originally just a fan project by McVee.

#

And someone at Valve thought it was cool, so update.

#

And then the community hyped it with VNN posting constant "End of the Line next Tuesday" crap for months, and then they hated it because it only added a weapon reskin and the shit map got tossed.

#

And that kinda set the tone since then.

high current
#

Valve’s 0 communication policy just expects averages users to have too much empathy for things they don’t understand.
Like if you put a ton of work into a substantial back end thing, then talk about it and help people understand that it took a ton of work to achieve something really important, but that it isn’t the flashiest.
Their recent content for like CS2 and to a lesser degree, dota 2, is a good example of them actually showing that they CAN do this. They just haven’t done that with tf2 yet.

crisp cedar
#

because they don't want to

#

nobody wants to have anything to do with tf2 anymore

#

its a nightmare to work on and the fans hate them

paper sluice
#

nuh uh

#

well yeah its a nightmare to work on but its like stockholm syndrome

crisp cedar
#

i wouldnt call it stockholm syndrome if all the devs have left trollfig

high current
#

In fairness the community of every valve multiplayer game hates the devs. Except maybe dota 2

paper sluice
#

the devs have uhhhhh

#

stupiditis syrtndom
pwned!

crisp cedar
#

more like smartitis syndrome (moving on to work on more profitable games with normal code)

high current
#

(To be clear I don’t hate the devs. I dislike the policies of Valve as a whole that create the problems developers experience)

crisp cedar
#

oh dont get me wrong

#

people will be like "i want worse games with no updates made by people who are paid more to work less and i'm not kidding" and then theyre like wait noooo i want tf2 to be updated

paper sluice
#

jarvis what does this mean

crisp cedar
#

the meme?

#

on twitter?

paper sluice
#

idk the meme

crisp cedar
paper sluice
#

kinda real tho,,.,

formal dew
#

workers of the world unite against red

#

red is the evil team

#

matched in evilness only by blu

high current
#

Red team is the best team. 5% of the world is red/green color blind so playing red team gives you an advantage against 5% of players.
Also it’s just a darker hue so you can hide in shadows better.

left sand
summer steeple
#

i didn't know any dev tweeted about it

#

but also, i avoid twitter like the plague, so i guess that makes sense

zealous pond
jagged pawn
#

^trueing

hybrid cloud
#

the point is to say that the community should give up on expecting major updates and they are not necessary for the game to be playable

high current
#

Yeh major updates arent super important

high current
cursive peak
#

I don't think Valve is gonna pay TF2bers to read their patch notes.

small sirenBOT
#

*I don't think Valve is

gonna pay TF2bers

to read their patch notes.*

- Steamworks
left sand
high current
#

Sorry i got cut off by scrims

#

but yeh most player frankly arent going to read patch notes and they arent detailed enough to give any appreciation as to the effort that goes into them

#

you have a content creation team on payroll for the steam deck promotion, CS2 promotion, dota 2 trailers, etc. put them to use and just have a little 5 minute talk about "yeh we worked on this for X months, faced challenges in these places, but it was important because blah"

#

bing bang boom. People now can see the human effort that went into the update and they can empathize with humans instead of text on a blog.

#

Yes, it takes effort. Yes, it takes money. Yes, it maybe takes a dev off actually developing the game for a 1/2 - 1 day. But it improves community perception. Again, I don't think its going to happen at Valve, but that's cuz Valve as a company has out dated policies.

zealous pond
#

No one is going to make a highly produced trailer to announce backend improvements unless it's part of a larger marketing campaign.

high current
#

what part of that said "highly produced trailer"

zealous pond
#

Well they're not going to release Powerpoint slides.

#

It's just too much effort for too little return.

high current
#

I just wrote a script for it basically. 5 minutes of actual content, maybe 2. A competent film team could set that up and film it in an hour tops.

summer steeple
#

valve kinda already does this for the steam deck

#

so its not out of the question

formal dew
#

they just released a 30 second ad on youtube

#

could be on tv for the first time in a decade

left sand
#

in fact, i don't know of any prominent game besides minecraft that does (and that's an unofficial one)

high current
#

Digital Extremes and Warframe. Hi-Rez and their games, but Hi-Rez is actually an awful company

left sand
#

why is the tf2 community so special and needs this to stop whining all the time

high current
#

They literally did this for CS2

left sand
#

except that was cs2

#

literally a new CS installment

#

and the things they went over were gameplay critical

high current
#

I'm not saying they will. I'm saying if they wanted to improve community perception they could do this very reasonably

left sand
#

no I don't think so

#

the tf2 community is just awful

#

that's the issue

#

csgo community had a similar problem

#

about 6 to 7 years ago

#

but community leaders like 3kliksphilip came in and just completely reorganized how the community talks about updates

#

it used to be braindead people whining 24/7 and being cynical

#

update or no, the tf2 community has been consistently complaining for almost 10 years now

#

there has been a complaint about anything that has happened since 2014

high current
#

So the community just needs to carry the community perception for Valve. Or they could use the resources they've shown they have and know how to use at a fraction of the scale they've already done so

left sand
#

yes again, valve has produced so much content

#

which the community turned toxic every time

#

and again, CS had the same problem

#

valve cant explicitly baby sit us and tell us to drop a toxic mindset

#

any subtle nudges to move in that direction would be lost on the community

high current
#

They can provide an environment that is less conducive to a toxic mindset from the community. Yes, the community can still be toxic, but right now it's just too easy

left sand
#

yeah, they had consistent major updates in 2014 and beyond

#

yet the community whined about everything

#

again, our community leaders need to be better

#

when over half of them are just whiny assholes, it makes the community toxic

#

dota community can get toxic too

#

but they literally have this meme

#

"we eat shit and like it"

jagged pawn
#

LMAOOOO

orchid sorrel
#

remember how one of muselk's last TF2 videos was him yelling at valve over MYM

#

clyde thinks heavy's eyes are nsfw

#

almost 1m views

spare obsidian
#

bruh

orchid sorrel
#

💀

#

this one also has almost 1m

#

all because the update didnt have snowplow

spare obsidian
#

did they know this time we had community fucked up that updated lol

#

that an invasion update

orchid sorrel
#

when star_ was still making Tf2 content he was also extremely critical of anything valve did

#

I think one of his last videos before quitting was just him on upward complaining about how valve doesnt care