Team Fortress 2 Megathread - winter is the most chill time of year

[summer steeple]

or am i misinterpreting how additive and subtractive work

[high current]

I think since it’s full white you’d effectively be subtracting values from 255 255 255 so the bar being full white works to your advantage. Though I could be wrong, I haven’t personally messed with modulate for this purpose at all

[summer steeple]

i'll have to look into vmt paramaters, i wonder if i can change the modulate value based on the bar color

since some of them turn red

hm according to VDC them modulate shader is multiply?

which still would work

[high current]

I’d take the VDC with a grain of salt particularly with material proxies. I don’t know if that bit is true or not though.

[summer steeple]

yeah of course

[spare obsidian]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/977124543007195156/1023644062428954794/vdc_articles.gif

[summer steeple]

LMAO

case in point

I feel like they're just talking about modulate in general, since it is transparent by default, but still funny

[high current]

Or like the fact that it’s definitely missing at least 50% of the material proxies in l4d and Csgo. And we’re working on figuring out what it missed from tf2 lmao

[rare creek]

3rd time in a day ive been votekicked for saying that racism is bad so im going to put #BLM in my name to piss even more people off <3

[hoary geyser]

lucifer trying to cover up their blatent aimbotting by claiming anyone who kicks them is racist

[slender nexus]

tf2's community is a goddamn cesspit at times

[hybrid cloud]

at times?

[rare creek]

(all times)

[rare creek]

tf2 community is a god damn

[craggy ridge]

what classes do they main

[jagged pawn]

pyro

[craggy ridge]

all of them?

[jagged pawn]

yeah

[radiant merlin]

bruh why is this func_respawnroomvis and not func_brush?

smh

[summer steeple]

LMAO WHAT

[radiant merlin]

i want to assume it's a problem with the decompiler

[summer steeple]

unlikely

bsp stores a lot of stuff, including the exact entity classname

its not like it uses an id for entity type

aaaaaaaaa

[radiant merlin]

whyy

that's why the barricade disappears sometimes

[summer steeple]

I mean the model shouldn't be tied to it?

while you're finding weird fucked up things like that, i'm busy finding weird fucked up things like just how many hud elements in the game are tied to resolution for some reason

its a depressing amount

[spare obsidian]

@summer steeple @radiant merlin how much this was done to solve an obscure nav mesh bug?

[summer steeple]

$0

[spare obsidian]

i mean check nav_mes.cpp lol you would see how many hacks valve has done

[rare creek]

didn't the tf2 developer commentary have an entire section about how they designed the hud to scale correctly with very high resolutions and different aspect ratios

epic fail

[radiant merlin]

why is there a func_door here?

maybe to block nav?

[summer steeple]

i think so

I am wary of every single usage of SetBounds in the entire code

some are fine, because they're used with values already converted from VGUI units to pixels

others...

well, I made this issue post over a year ago now
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/3811

[spare obsidian]

yeah func_door creates block regions in the nav file to prevent bots from goin on

[summer steeple]

ugh the problem with the whole resolution thing is that if it were to get fixed, who knows how many huds would get broken

basically every single one

i guess not broken, but like

they would change

elements would move or be a different size

I mean on one hand its not particularly out of the question for huds to need to be updated due to a game change, even this late into the game's lifespan

but on the other, there's a lot of panels which have this behavior

I suppose they could add a new variable which determines if the values are in pixels or units for back compat

I suppose I can fix it and then leave it to valve to decide

[summer steeple]

critical error

side note, this is the size with default values

very large

1080p

664p (shitty screenshot but still)

[rare creek]

Just fix it anyways dammit!!

[summer steeple]

i'm doing it!!!

[rare creek]

Ohok

[high current]

Font sizes in tf2 also have a maximum of 127 or 128 pixels at 480p resolution. So if you go up to say 1440p the max ui font size is something like 50 and at 4k it’s like 25. That’s why fonts look tiny at 4k. This game would actually be unplayable at 6k or 8k because of the font size limitations.

[summer steeple]

iirc thats not something I can easily fix, i seem to remember coms saying that the engine itself has some issue with it

it might already be fixed in tc2 idk

[left sand]

i tried fixing it once but it didnt work, it requires a full rework of the font system

[summer steeple]

right, that was it

[left sand]

and why not use panorama at that point

[jagged pawn]

yes tell valve to use panorama please

[high current]

Yeh. I mentioned it more so as “they botched high res support”

[summer steeple]

ah

[high current]

It’s actually a massive blunder. I guess a workaround would be to just upscale my fonts and then have my resolution override for 4k use a different font entirely. But wow

[rare creek]

[Alden Kroll] Two-dimensional HUD elements present a particular art problem, because they have to look good and sharp no matter what resolution the user is running their game at. Given today's availability of high resolution wide-screen displays, this can require a lot of texture memory and a lot of work anticipating different display resolutions. The problem for Team Fortress 2 was even more daunting because of our desire to include a lot of smooth curved elements in our HUD. We developed a new shader system for drawing 'line art' images. The system allows us to create images at a fixed resolution that produced smooth silhouettes even when scaled up to a very high resolution. This shader system also handles outlining and drop-shadows, and can be applied in the 3D space to world elements such as signs.

[jagged pawn]

wouldn't vector images do this better or am I missing something

[lean cove]

yeah thats what I would think

[rare creek]

i don't trust valve with writing a functional svg parser

[summer steeple]

the things is

source already has a really really good way to fake vector like stuff from regular images

and its only used on the spy disguise outline

[high current]

Wait, but the stuff said in that quote aren’t smooth in the slightest. Have you seen dropshadows? They literally don’t support antialiasing and look god awful above font size 8… also the outlines on panels are clearly not smooth either.

[summer steeple]

this is what i'm talking about btw

[high current]

I’d rather them just go “in 2007 we didn’t think 4k screens would be popular in 15 years”

[high current]

Yeh that has something to do with distance scaling. And it does hold up under scrutiny really well.

[rare creek]

in 2007 a "high resolution wide-screen display" was 1680x1050

[summer steeple]

the thing is, i don't know why they didn't use the distance alpha thing for anything else

they don't even use it on the material they show off in their talk

which was an overlay in 2fort

[high current]

Their source scheme font definitions top out at 6000 yres. So there’s that to reference.

[summer steeple]

idk if there's just some weird high performance cost to distancealpha that i don't know about or what

because from what i can tell, it works pretty well

like, extremely well

[high current]

I don’t know much about it either. I’ve heard it’s a difficult to work with and I just make my materials a reasonable resolution lol.

Also most materials in tf2 are way higher def than they need to be. Like there are coconut icons that are at most ever 0.5cm by 0.5cm on a screen, and they’re 1028*1028 resolution. That’s absurd pixel density.

I feel like if they were stingier with smaller textures they could have made some larger textures nicer. Granted I don’t have too many issues with large textures, but there are some default panels that are under-detailed.

[radiant merlin]

mmm panorama

is it customizable?

[crisp cedar]

depends on the dev

[radiant merlin]

i mean the csgo version of panorama is hardcoded af

[crisp cedar]

iirc you can modify dota 2's panorama but nobody's done it because...well there's no reason to begin with

[radiant merlin]

if valve decides to port panorama it also should come with an ui redesign

[summer steeple]

panorama in theory is more customizable than vgui, it just needs to not be locked down

cause its literally just like... css and javascript

side note, i am angy

for the health, it uses a variable in the health res file

for the ammo, it uses a... developer only cvar

AND WHOEVER WROTE IT KNEW

[potent wolf]

LOL

[summer steeple]

its set to 5 pixels by default, which is like

bruh

imagine 5 pixels on a 4k monitor

even on my 1080p monitor its tiny

[jagged pawn]

I know this is impossible to answer but how much work would porting panorama to tf2 actually entail? like basically I want to know if it's something they'd even consider, because if it's a sizeable effort they simply will not do it

[summer steeple]

i mean, its an entirely different UI system, so probably a lot of work

[jagged pawn]

and then followup question, to which I assume the answer is "none", but how much work could be done by the community towards that goal

[summer steeple]

probably none

[hoary geyser]

well, I don't think we have the source code to panorama, so yeah, basically nothing

[jagged pawn]

yeah that's what I thought

tragic

[hoary geyser]

I'll get someone from facepunch to send the code over

[jagged pawn]

thank you

[lean cove]

no it's not, it's just signed

so it can be easily changed but the game won't accept ui mods

[left sand]

You could test panorama mods in dota 2

it supports custom panorama

so if you re-implemented every tf2 element in dota 2 maybe it would be cool

[spare obsidian]

i mean what it takes most of the time is the UI design than the UI code on for panorama

[next nymph]

I'd rather walk through the gates of hell than re-implement the entirety of the default hud in another system

[spare obsidian]

pick your pill vgui hell, or semi panorama hell

[jagged pawn]

yeah if they did panorama surely it would involve some sort of ui redesign too, not just a direct copy

I know tfs2 briefly experimented with a modernized ui and though people immediately complained about it because it was different, I thought it was sick

[next nymph]

at the scales of text in tf2 (because they're pretty limited in size currently anyway) signed distance fields are fine enough at rendering without noticeable issue. There is also multi-channel sdf's that can improve it ( https://github.com/Chlumsky/msdfgen ) in sharp edges, the main issue with sdf's normally.

The bonus is that it's relatively easy to implement things like dropshadows, blurs, etc. with it as well. All "free" as in you'd only need to generate an atlas once for each different font file, the effects would just be something on the shader

[paper sluice]

Modern doesn’t really fit tf2

Idk love to see a much more stylized take on the hud in an attempt to modernize it
What exactly it’d look like idk

Maybe stylized as posters from that time as a some promos like the force a nature are

[next nymph]

I'm of the opposite mind: the default hud is the part of tf2 that shows its age the most, and updating it to align with modern hud design would be the number 1 way to bring tf2 into the 2020s as far as visuals go

the general art style looks nice and is pretty timeless... except that the hud is clearly a relic from an earlier era

[hybrid cloud]

doesn't even look that different

[spare obsidian]

yeah

tf2s2 hud in this example scoreboard

is stil the same has the one we got on 2011

and its still use to this day

[paper sluice]

It’s too Kiki imo

[spare obsidian]

iirc

[paper sluice]

Not enough bouba

[spare obsidian]

i give credit for their scoreboard to be able to hide the player stats with a key press

[jagged pawn]

I don't know how to say this in words but I want to make clear the difference between like aesthetics and ux. I'm talking about modern ux, the game is simply behind the times and you can have a game with a modern ux without losing the charm of the tf2 artstyle

[paper sluice]

Ah yeah makes sense

[rare creek]

it cant be hard to rework the font system tho right I mean it's just fonts

[potent wolf]

"Just" fonts

[spare obsidian]

we wish was like this 😔

[next nymph]

font rendering is notoriously hard to do well, actually

[small siren]

*font rendering is

notoriously hard to do

well, actually*

- JarateKing

[potent wolf]

Why can't we all just use monospace ascii bitmap fonts and be done with it...

it's not like there are any languages that have characters not in ascii or anything

riiiiight

[next nymph]

extended ascii should cover it

[rare creek]

wait how it's just text

if it's hard then how does every game ever do it

[potent wolf]

If gamedev is so hard how come games exist

https://faultlore.com/blah/text-hates-you/

[next nymph]

with varying degrees of quality

[potent wolf]

yep

[next nymph]

its relatively easy to do those oldschool monospaced pixel fonts that are only at a single size thats just a spritesheet. Everything you want to add to it beyond that is its own chunk of work

[orchid sorrel]

joined a mann up game in progress and its the final wave and 3 of the people have 1000+ tours

something bad happened here I can feel it

[next nymph]

its called an easy win

run gas passer and coast

[orchid sorrel]

i mean they probably vote kicked some newbie on wave 6

[summer steeple]

so after my extremely long research into this hud issue (along with a very long break), it seems that the only hud elements that are based off of resolution instead of units are that health cross and the ammo background

thats it lol

[jagged pawn]

lmao

[high current]

The vgui1 or source-scheme stuff is based on resolution instead of hud units. Like when you're loading into a map that "Connecting to Server" panel, that's entirely pixel based. And interestingly, it accepts relative sizing so you can do the math to scale things between resolutions with less issue using P sizing, but then rounding happens and your math goes out the window...

Also by "health cross" I assume you mean the expanded health cross when you are at low health?

[summer steeple]

right, I stopped checking after the tf specific stuff lol

I noticed that it probably was pixel specific, and that lined up with stuff like 3kliksphilips videos, where all the old UI on his 4k monitor is tiny

but decided not to bother since its old and outdated, i might make a mention of it in my email though

[high current]

Very nice

[orchid sorrel]

[summer steeple]

YOOOOO

[summer steeple]

also yeah, by health cross I mean the expanded one for low health and overheal

[high current]

If they fixed that then I wouldn’t need resolution overrides in my hud🤠

Also the same applies to all the health indicators that have expandable warnings. So like the specgui references on targetID and tournamentSpectator. I assume that was included in the general “health cross”, but in case it wasn’t…they’re the bane of my existence.

[summer steeple]

I just checked target ID, but not tournament spectator, and it appears that the SpectatorGUIHealth element is technically its own panel type, but its a child of the CTFHudPlayerHealth panel , which is the problematic one, so it should fix it?

[smoky notch]

hell yea!

[lean cove]

damn nice

[summer steeple]

tf2 bug fix email moment

you couldn't get me to write an essay in school but i damn well will write one on how a 2-20 (depending on the implementation) line fix

[orchid sorrel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480080287393382402/1083250583584133160/the_human_spirit.gif

[summer steeple]

lmaoo

i've written like entire essays the night before

its hell

[orchid sorrel]

i have one due wednesday

[jagged pawn]

I also have one due wednesday, gonna start it in a couple days

[small siren]

*I also have one

due wednesday, gonna start it

in a couple days*

- Grapevine

[warped plume]

look at this!!!

[warped plume]

i have tf2 now

[smoky notch]

what is this?

[warped plume]

tf2s new category for items

rail tf2 fix

[next nymph]

what's it on

[next nymph]

what's it on

[orchid sorrel]

Dumb 5 page essay on my local county government

I had to attend a town hall meeting and write an essay on it

[small siren]

*I had to attend

a town hall meeting and write

an essay on it*

- DrCactus

[next nymph]

sounds cool tho

[jagged pawn]

big final project for my public opinion class

[next nymph]

what is your opinion

[high current]

That’s private

[radiant merlin]

what's the default size?

i think it's 32

[mystic turtle]

another silly sound mod, based off of Karma Charger's Painis Cannon video
spoilered for possibly inflammatory humor

[cursive peak]

https://rgl.gg/?a=1671

[rare creek]

feedback?

@left sand especialy yours

I need feedbak

oh wait i forgot you told me not to ping you

dementia

sorry

[jagged pawn]

the tiktok announcer is really funny

also I assume you're not asking about the art but just conceptually? because I like the concept but I think either the font should be bigger or the circle smaller (probably both and meet somewhere in the middle)

[rare creek]

The font cant be bigger and you can change the size of the circle in the config

[jagged pawn]

I see

[rare creek]

It's finished

[pliant crater]

wow, that looks pretty sick. Would it be possible to do the same thing with the spy disguise menu?

[heavy solar]

@pliant crater has leveled up! (2 ➜ 3)

[rare creek]

that's already built into the game using the 1-3 keys can be found in the advanced options if you mean making a radial out of the menu then I believe no

[pliant crater]

Ah, yeah I meant making a radial menu, similar to how that advanced option worked

[rare creek]

actually you totally could but it'd be a pain in the ass

(I dont want to)

[pliant crater]

Ye, fair enough, I was just curious

[left sand]

what is this

[pliant crater]

It's the soldier 🙂

[rare creek]

https://gamebanana.com/mods/409955

[left sand]

why are they the wrong gender

[rare creek]

because the sprites are based off of girls in helltaker

Rule 63

[left sand]

thats kinda weird ngl

[rare creek]

why

[left sand]

why do you want to seduce gender bent versions of the mercs while you play a shooter

[rare creek]

seduce?

[left sand]

isnt helltaker about collecting women or something

[rare creek]

i think so yeah

I just want to see the sprites because I think they're cool

[left sand]

isnt the entire aesthetic based on a man collecting women

[rare creek]

they should have added males to seduce and collect in that game ngl

[left sand]

thats why i think its weird

[rare creek]

I think the art looks cool

I only played the first couple of levels of it before it became too hard and I gave up

[wintry marlin]

miss have you heard of the thing called a harem

[left sand]

i hate that word

[wintry marlin]

it's arabic

[summer steeple]

its also literally nothing

iirc its basically just a word for like a womens only group

[wintry marlin]

ok but have you seen this

[summer steeple]

why is this dude literally stamping women as his property

pretty fucked up

[wintry marlin]

average anime:

also you can have lesbians in a harem

[summer steeple]

ok but also like

[wintry marlin]

and it's a meta strategy in crusader kings 2

[summer steeple]

my point was that harems aren't sexual in any way shape or form

people just thought they were

[wintry marlin]

by people you mean weebs

[summer steeple]

no i mean idiot colonialist men

[wintry marlin]

because they appropriated the idea

except polygamy was always a thing, only that there's one man and everyone else are women and they're all married to the man rather than each other and vice versa

[summer steeple]

ok but thats unrelated

[wintry marlin]

harem and polygamy?

[summer steeple]

yeah

because harems aren't sexual

or about romance or love or anything

[wintry marlin]

aren't polygamy just a relationship

the idea of harem has always been about marriage afaik

[summer steeple]

kinda?

not really

[wintry marlin]

like in the most generic sense of the marriage

[summer steeple]

if anything its almost like

anti-sex

[wintry marlin]

like a catholic school

segregation

but the part about wealthy muslims -

what about it?

are they wealthy because they have a harem

or are they wealthy because they have wealth

[summer steeple]

i assume its about the fact that the harem is large

[wintry marlin]

and also what is the hierarchical structure

[summer steeple]

bad

[wintry marlin]

ah the cattle system

I think

like the cows in india.

weebs really do ruin everything.

[summer steeple]

"sacred inviolable place" is pretty telling

so yeah, the shitty presumption that its about sex is literally just orientalist white men who assumed that there must be something sexy and forbidden going on because they're not allowed in

[wintry marlin]

So my understanding about weebs ruining stuff is correct, misappropriated term

[summer steeple]

yeah but it goes further back

[wintry marlin]

Got it

[hybrid cloud]

this is truly the insightful tf2 conversation i was missing out on

[summer steeple]

lmao

[wintry marlin]

makes me imagine how would a conversation between a colonialist and a guard would happen when they try to walk into part of a house that's closed for them

full of shocked looks and complete gibberish

I just realised what the term reminds me of now, feudalism

because who else wants to own a bunch of people who they have no affiliation with and want to keep them in their house

it seemed like a bizarre concept to me to have strangers in your house for no reason but to just give them space to live until I remembered about this.

or I guess the wealthy guy is like a landlord except they grouped their residents by sex and there's no rent

I forget that other religions are like when people to good things for each other for completely no reason but also they have weird rules

[crisp cedar]

this is awesome

only thing id change is allow for more than 3 options but this is really good

always wanted sth like this

[mystic turtle]

lmfao, oof

[spare obsidian]

you know what's funny

tf2 has the radial menu lol

its unused on the code

[slender nexus]

women epic

[heavy solar]

@slender nexus has leveled up! (36 ➜ 37)

[paper sluice]

They gave scout ass crack topology at some point in 2007

[high current]

Jiggle physics when?

[paper sluice]

Who removed the image?

It’s not leaked material

The retail is a decompile and the beta model a gib restoration

[next nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/butt-gif-11020650

[potent wolf]

tfw when you get trolled by valve code...

[paper sluice]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1024791737522208798/1098400153892823120/2023-04-19_20-08-52.mp4
hammer

[rare creek]

you can put unusual effects in huds

(and other particles too)

[smoky notch]

why is this so specifically recorded to hide what's inside

[smoky notch]

how?

[potent wolf]

iirc theres a hud element which allows you to draw particles

check the comfig hud docs thing

[formal dew]

hud that looks normal but spawns 10,000 particles and makes tf2 explode if you click an invisible button on the main menu

[radiant merlin]

valve not banning vac banned players from matchmaking because why should they?

[small siren]

*valve not banning vac

banned players from matchmaking

because why should they?*

- Ashe wiki.tf

[rare creek]

have you checked their account to make sure they are actually vac banned and not just sending a disconnect string to the server

[rare creek]

CTFParticlePanel

it's used like 10 times in the code or smth

[radiant merlin]

nah they always have a vac ban

[rare creek]

they've actually been vac banned holy shit

ive seen people without vac bans doing it

tho if it was a vac ban in CSGO then they wouldn't be vac banned from TF2

[radiant merlin]

why is this place so dark 😭

and it is supposed to be a competitive map?

[high current]

We briefly messed around with adding the Cloud9 unusual effect to the Xhud overheal icon a long time ago. Was fun and looks good on menus but I honestly didn't bother to benchmark it because I figured it'd NUKE fps. Could be wrong and maybe it'd make a cute custom crosshair.

[rare creek]

I mean it's directly affected by how much area it fills

for me I have a 4k monitor so this reduces my fps on the menu by like 1200% XD but in 1080p my fps improves significantly and if I make the effect smaller then it also improves massively

[high current]

Oh I didn’t mess with it enough to realize that. I’d think it would just make the particles larger. But I guess just making more makes sense. I wonder if there are any examples in game of this lol

[heavy solar]

@high current has leveled up! (13 ➜ 14)

[jagged pawn]

niche example but this makes me wonder how malleable this is. hypothetically a killstreak indicator that gained an effect once you passed a certain number would be really hype

[high current]

I don’t think the killstreak counter on the hud is complex enough to be able to differentiate the actual quantity of kills in a meaningful way. But you could definitely slap something like community sparkles or burning flames onto the killstreak server notification.

[orchid sorrel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480079567458140171/1098497649084203109/le_ultrakill.mp4

[rare creek]

you just have to remember that you can't have any custom particles even if the server has sv_pure -1, since the server sends a list of allowed particles to the client when you connect I thino

You could hijack an unused particle effect but mehhhhhh

[rare creek]

it's so pretty tho fr

[wild grove]

I scroll thru this thread just to see someone talking about harems and then going full on nerd like wtf?!

LOL

[wintry marlin]

wiggle wiggle

[warped plume]

my reaction to this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5INcNQWuX0

[rare creek]

wtf is team fortress arcade and why is there some motherfucker on the wine development team who plays it

nvm it doesnt exist

[rare creek]

the string has the closing parentheses on a newline which iirc cannot be forged by sending a string

[high current]

Bit of a technical question (or maybe not) about some scripts I've been working on.
I have a script that calls several aliases to echo some basic text to a log file, and I've noticed that if the aliases are listed line-after-line that there's around a 5% chance that more than one line will be called at once, resulting in botched logging. I've found a couple work arounds but I'm curious if anyone knows the cause, because it can effect the reliability of log-base customizations in HUDs.
For example:

(Assume each alias was previously set to "echo logX")
alias1
alias2
alias3

Will occasionally result in:

log1 log2
log3

Instead of the expected one line at a time.

As mentioned, I've tried a few work arounds.
The first was adding ;wait 100 to the end of each alias-call line, this had no effect on the problem, just made the script take longer.
I tried adding ;echo to the end of each alias-call line, this made them execute in the correct order, but I noticed some lines would have up to 4 blank lines in-between, as if the echo was firing multiple times.
The best solution was simply adding a blank newline between each alias-call, which over 100 or so tests never resulted in incorrectly-ordered execution.

My guess as to the explanation, based off the symptoms and not actual technical insight, is that the file wants to be read line-by-line, and each line is assigned a processing time within a rolling internal clock. However, the simplicity of things like alias1 only take something like 0.4 processing time, so if your file execution and the rolling internal clock line up just right, then the contents of multiple lines can be executed within 1 processing time, thus allowing for the occasional command grouping I'm seeing.

Interestingly more complex aliases (like the ones pictured) don't seem to encounter this grouping ever.

[rare creek]

it's just a console/log issue iirc

[high current]

But I'm curious about the reasoning. I have a functioning work around but I wanna learn why the workaround is necessary and how it works. If anyone has that insight.

[rare creek]

I think it's about pc speed, my old cpus never had this issue

[orchid sorrel]

Old fan game

[rare creek]

i believe the issue is entirely a result of source engine multi-threading (and the console not being made thread-safe, leading to race conditions where things happen out of order at random)

[left sand]

mat_queue_mode 0

[high current]

Huh. I thought it might be a race condition (forgot the proper name of this). But didn’t think they’d bother multithreading the console, or maybe it’s because they didn’t that the race condition occurs, I’m not sure what the “default” would be in that sense.
That’s interesting though.

[high current]

Oh there’s a convenient command to make my problems go away. Though not sure I’d want to mess with people’s multithreading setting, unless there is just a universally superior option for uses other than console logging.
Though I could probably do some incrementvar script to make the value return to what the user had set, but at that point adding a space between each line might be more elegant anyway.

[left sand]

should be fine to toggle between 0 and -1

[high current]

I assume -1 is auto and is what comfig uses? If so I may do that, though someone using an outdated config might still complain but🤷‍♂️

[potent wolf]

The queue/thread mode the material system should use: -1=default, 0=synchronous single thread, 2=queued multithreaded

[left sand]

-1 = 2 during gameplay (if you have 2 cores), 0 in menus.

[high current]

Huh, that's nifty functionality. I could have sworn I was having that grouping issue outside of game, but testing it just now, it only occurs in game. Good to know

So is it correct to assume that more complex commands just happen to not have an issue with race commands because of taking more time to process. Or is my specific pc just not processing them fast enough to be affected, so I should add the queue mode toggle to all order sensitive scripts?

[high current]

Seems to still be happening even if I do mat_queue_mode 0; exec xhud_save D:
I might just have to do a combo of work arounds on the off chance something beats the mat_queue_mode command to the execution

[left sand]

you have to wait

because mat_queue_mode only applies to the next render frame

[high current]

Any way to do that on wait-disabled servers? Curious if wait command takes a frame to realize its disabled or not. Does not wait for one frame :(

[rare creek]

regular tf2 moment

iirc when you are on a wait disabled server wait command just doesn't exist
if you are on one of these servers please tell the admins to go fuck themselves

[rare creek]

isn't every single server wait-disabled by default

[lean cove]

yea thats what I thought

[high current]

Yeh. I’ve found a sorta alternative in my use is just putting echo 10 times after the mat_queue_mode and before the other commands. Or maybe it just decreases the likelihood of it happening to the point I can’t replicate it artificially 🤷‍♂️

I guess realistically it couple probably be any command, but echo works

[potent wolf]

That seems like a rather messy solution, but i guess if it works it's fine?

[rare creek]

messy solutions are suitable for messy problems

(tf2 is messy)

[high current]

I may see it I can have the button that opens the customization menu also set queue mode off. The issue with that though is then I need to have a way to ensure it gets reverted back to -1. Which probably means setting it so tabbing back into the game also closes the menu and resets the queue mode.

[lean cove]

using echo instead of wait seems like a reasonable solution

[next nymph]

the solution to logs being out of order is to run quit in between them to flush tf2

[high current]

I could just make it use MORE echo commands and add a comment that says “clears console”👀

[potent wolf]

LOL

[next nymph]

you say that but I actually do this. Clears the console but can still scroll up to see the history

[next nymph]

does make me wonder if changing con_logfile would flush it

[high current]

Yeh honestly it wouldn’t be the worst for debugging. If it just cleared the console window except the actual log generating bit.

[potent wolf]

Looks like it closes the file on convar change

[high current]

turns out this method was inconsistent with uncapped fps. Probably could have kept adding echos until it would require unachievable fps to cause issues, but that's a bit too messy.
Ended up having the customization menu open trigger set mat_queue_mode to 0, then when you either save the settings or return back to game it sets it back to -1 and closes the customization menu(I hijack gameui_hide for something else anyway).

Don't you love complicated work arounds for things :D

[radiant merlin]

why can't the game just take the player's cp as the default cp instead of the map's default cp?

if it doesn't detect a valid cp for cosmetics

[limpid panther]

I dont have any cp

do you?

this was a terrible joke

I regret making it

[radiant merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-26470175

[summer steeple]

animated texture or particle system?

[rare creek]

particle system

[summer steeple]

cool

[rare creek]

barely any performance impact too

[summer steeple]

i always wanted to add a particle system to my main menu

i forgot up until now

[rare creek]

opening and closing the console results in much bigger performance differences than enabling and disabling the particle panel I added

just put it in the ui folder and add it as a base to mainmenuoverride

[summer steeple]

ye i assumed it was something simple liek that

one of the things i wanted to do was try and use this stuff in mainmenu override to give different particles based on the holiday

idk if you can add new panels inside these "if"s tho

[left sand]

https://docs.mastercomfig.com/latest/tf2/huds/particle_effects/

did no one see this before?

[summer steeple]

no i knew it was possible

but also i didn't see that page

i didn't actually know we had a hud documentation section

oh well

[high current]

I didn’t see this before now, but I also think I tinkered with particle panels before that was there.

Though on a side note: I’d maybe title that something else in the side bar. I normally like to read all the hud documentation I can get ahold of, but think I glossed over it because I assumed it was documentation on specifically particle effects, not particle panels.

[rare creek]

mines better I think

because rain smaller and it's at an angle because of the angle parameter

it might even be faster on performance since the mist isn't there so there isn't nearly as much translucency overdraw

[left sand]

but that tutorial isnt about specific particles its the panel

[rare creek]

ohok

can you put angle parameter in the panel tutorial

[rare creek]

i wonder if you could use a couple thousand invisible particles in hudlayout to remove the actual in-game particles bc of particle limit

[rare creek]

and control points, im not sure how to use these

[rare creek]

[high current]

Yeh I was referring to on the side bar it is titled “Particle Effects” I wrongly assumed it would be a list of particle effects similar to like the cvar list. But in hindsight I should have known otherwise since it’s in the hud documentation drop down.

[orchid sorrel]

https://fxtwitter.com/MarioBrothBlog/status/1649132614119223302?t=SvbFdFqMgnGF8YoYD8QXgg&s=19

Need this in tf2

[summer steeple]

i think dishonored's debug builds have a similar thing

but its just like an image that shows up and says "your performance is shit" or smth when you're under 30fps

found it

actually this imght just be a generic UE thing, and they just changed the image for it

[spare obsidian]

Unreal Engine doesn't have this btw

[formal dew]

Valves still got the source textures for weapons before the switch over to c_models right

[potent wolf]

they almost certainly do

[formal dew]

🤞

Shiny minigun 2023

[summer steeple]

yeah valve doesn't tend to delete things

they're pretty good at holding onto stuff

[potent wolf]

well, it's probably in the version control repos

[summer steeple]

I mean yeah but just in general

a lot of companies even going back just a decade or 2 just didn't hold onto their stuff particularly well

[radiant merlin]

still waiting for them to release their dmx for the meet the team videos 🥲

[rare creek]

so turns out there's a file that defines which bindings show up in the options panel

You can add your own binds even

press space to suck dick

where does it go

in scripts

it could be a part of mastercomfig to allow binding null-canceling movement from the options menu

or removing/fixing broken binds such as the one for "help" (which is currently just a duplicate of "medic")

you could easily point help to the actual voice command to call for help actually

[high current]

You can also do some stuff with the advanced options menu iirc

[rare creek]

you can also use kb_def.lst to define default keybinds for when you press the "use defaults" button

isn't that in config_default.cfg

no

config_default.cfg is run when you have no config.cfg

kb_def.lst is parsed when you press the "use defaults" button on the keyboard tab in the options menu

+helpme?

yeah just change it from +helpme to "voicemenu 2 0" and it should work

[summer steeple]

isn't +helpme the "medic" callout?

[rare creek]

i could've sworn there were two entries, one for medic and one for "call for help"

but i only see this one

I have no idea

HUH

in kb_def.lst e is +helpme but in config_default it's voicemenu 0 0

valve made a mistake

epic fail

in fact e is bound twice in config_default

valve sure is a special and funny company

[zealous pond]

Very special.

[rare creek]

Holy shit there's an entire secret options page

What the fuck is this

hap_HasDevice 1

this is literally 1984

if valve actually cared about us we would have had an mp3 player in tf2

😔

I find it a little funny that there's a boolean for if the game is running tf2... in the tf2 source code... of course it's fucking running tf2

[radiant merlin]

so there's these responses that for some reason don't play but everything seems ok imo

those are the "cart going forward" for defense

i'm sure you never heard about them

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/e/e6/Demoman_cartgoingforwarddefense01.wav

perhaps the vcd files are missing?

[rare creek]

there is no vcd filesi n the tf2 assets

you would have to edit scenes.image I believe

[radiant merlin]

yes

the file is encrypted

[rare creek]

just decrypt it i think

we have the tf2 source code...

[paper sluice]

Yeah you’re able to decrypt scenes.image

I forgo how I just know someone that did it

[potent wolf]

That's in serverbrowser, it's not necessarily tf2.

[rare creek]

idk some guy on 4chan

[potent wolf]

vice?

[rare creek]

ashe asked how we have the tf2 source code XD

[potent wolf]

oh

i see

yeah it got leaked 4chan iirc

[radiant merlin]

nono i asked how do i decrypt scenes.image

[rare creek]

asdf

[potent wolf]

how do you know it's encrypted?

[potent wolf]

That just means it's binary data, not encrypted

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Scenes.image

[radiant merlin]

i found this

https://github.com/SlawekNowy/vsif2vcd

[radiant merlin]

it doesn't work 😔

[rare creek]

so turns out the debugsystemui is fully customizable (without recompiling tf2) and also bypasses sv_cheats

did I just find a vanilla sv_cheats bypass?

I just enabled fullbright in a local server with sv_cheats set to 0...

[summer steeple]

time to email valve

(i'm talking about you, you do that)

[summer steeple]

YOU BETTER FUCKING DO IT

[rare creek]

r_drawothermodels 2

[summer steeple]

if you don't do it i will

[rare creek]

reporting it to delfy dw dw valve will fix it after that

[summer steeple]

i'm going to throw you down a large hole

[formal dew]

the stanley parable ultra deluxe (2022)

[rare creek]

I am creating a bug report dw dw

nvm it's not of any concern because if you actually join a server with the panel open it closes itself

[potent wolf]

can you reopen it?

[rare creek]

the command to open it requires sv_cheats

so this exploit is only useful if the server you are on enables sv_cheats and then disables it like I was doing

so its not an exploit specific to the debug ui

if a server enables sv_cheats you could turn on wireframe anyways and keep it on

no it is because you can click the options on the debugui after sv_cheats is disabled

[rare creek]

like you can enable and disable sv_cheat protected cvars after the server has disabled sv_cheats

[rare creek]

I just found a tf2 memory leak

awesome

// this causes a memory leak
// too bad!

you have to spam console commands for it to do it but essentially you can create infinite amounts of the sixense vgui components using sixense_show_frame

it never deletes the previous one

[potent wolf]

oh that's funny

[rare creek]

put that in a script and upload it to gamebanana as an fps config

alias a"sixense_show_frame"
alias b"a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;a;wait 1;b";b

[potent wolf]

is there any reason to wait?

[rare creek]

mastercoms should add this as an april fools update next year instead of the tradeit.gg ad

[rare creek]

do alias quit b and press the quit game button

[potent wolf]

that was really the perfect timing

[radiant merlin]

i found the funny comment

[high current]

// axis.normalize();
Gets me every time🤠

[left sand]

i think i fixed HDR

[jagged pawn]

omg

tfs2 in tf2

[left sand]

@paper sluice

[jagged pawn]

all jokes aside this is beautiful

[left sand]

@summer steeple

[jagged pawn]

oh what the hell

that's so pretty

[summer steeple]

i'm really bad at spotting differences like this, is the bloom less garbage?

[left sand]

yeah

[summer steeple]

nice

it looks good

[left sand]

let me show you an exaggerated difference about the problem

[small siren]

*let me show you an

exaggerated difference

about the problem*

- mcoms

[rare creek]

when will tf2 have 16 bit rendering with dithereing fr

[summer steeple]

a month or 2 ago i asked in the tf2m discord if the people like HDR in tf2 specifically for the bloom and i got a very resounding "yes"

and i mean tbf you can make HDR look pretty good with some settings

but god, some maps like upward are just like

blown out

to hell and back

[left sand]

this is no bloom

default bloom

default bloom (exaggerated to show color bias)

my bloom (exaggerated to show lack of color bias)

my bloom (weighted against the 4-sample bloom in engine)

my theory is that since bloom is a post process effect overlayed on top of color samples

it should not be biased from the color

and instead be white light

[left sand]

even against a value which gets the same intensity as the default bloom

it looks better because it doesnt over saturate

this is the default bloom (it tends to saturate) vs. my bloom which just brightens

technically it's not physically accurate (?) maybe

[summer steeple]

makes sense

[left sand]

i also balanced the luminance more accurately (based on human eye perception)

[summer steeple]

imo, since its trying to be HDR it should just be like, light intensity rather than color based

like what you have

[orchid sorrel]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2964222426&searchtext=

I really like this paint

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2051994490845138497/0B4355C3568EBC6B312C164FE39B813FFDEE85BA/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=#000000&letterbox=false

[summer steeple]

ooh

now that i'm out of a tf2 match i did a bit more of a comparison between the images you showed

and man its night and day

looking at the default HDR is just so blegh

so much detail is lost

[paper sluice]

Dope stuff

[rare creek]

tf2 if it was made in source 2007 engine

[high current]

I feel like this would need a reskin for blue team. Otherwise it’d be a bit confusing.
IMO you gotta be careful with using red/blue colors when they’re the differentiating team colors.

[potent wolf]

It says it has a blu variant on the workshop page

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2051994490845139451/EBCFF4EC16B79902535F7133851B7235C0C7E822/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=#000000&letterbox=false

[high current]

Ah. I didn’t bother checking out the workshop page tbh. But I like it.

[cursive peak]

I should see if the "Ordinary Carbon" skins have been submitted to the workshop as a skin. https://gamebanana.com/members/1337906

[high current]

That’s pretty slick

[cursive peak]

Used them for years until I finally found a warpaint I like.

Wouldn't those make a pretty great warpaint/skin?

I might 3D print another shotty and paint it up in that style.

One thing I'd love to see added would be esport team skins for the player models. I go through periods where I use the ESEA S17 LAN skins in my client.

https://www.teamfortress.tv/21510/esea-s17-lan-reskins

There was a period of a couple of years where all my matches were skinned up as 4G vs 20b.

[spare obsidian]

you know what's funny, that valve during Loves & War blog post about scrapped weapons

they considered adding a facestab knife

meaning valve was considering making this weird bug a real thingy lol

[orchid sorrel]

https://youtu.be/OAdOuavqiXA

[radiant merlin]

what is this comparison? 😭

why are they comparing textures with low quality settings?

[rare creek]

hjey I recognize these numbers!

[jagged pawn]

jesus christ discord

it's getting worse by the day

[potent wolf]

oh yeah i've seen that

[rare creek]

that's been a bug for a very long time

[potent wolf]

great software

[left sand]

the relative luminance formula?

[rare creek]

yeaj something liek that

they are the same as what I set in vtfedit

\

[left sand]

cool

[wild grove]

Oh this affects basically nothing vanilla wise since the tours that this map is in, is extremely boring.

Custom missions would be an issue though

[left sand]

linear colors in your textures?

[rare creek]

Luminance weights

[left sand]

but doesnt that only work for linear colors?

[rare creek]

I have the srgb flag ticked

[left sand]

ok

but the textures are srgb?

[rare creek]

I mean I import srgb pngs so I assume so

GIMP uses an srgb profile

Do dxt5 textures save texture memory or just filesize?

[summer steeple]

I mean they're compressed so i assume they do

[high current]

would they be stored in texture memory compressed or uncompressed though?

[small siren]

*would they be stored in

texture memory compressed

or uncompressed though?*

- peaches

[summer steeple]

its lossy compression

dxt5 compresses it down to like 8bit color

oh wait i'm misremembering

it appears to be 4 bits of pallete color and 8 bits of interpolated alpha, plus compression

so in other words, as i'm understanding it, the image data is compressed, which will lower texture memory usage and filesize, and then on top of that is compressed, which probably only affects filesize?

"S3TC is a lossy compression algorithm, resulting in image quality degradation, an effect which is minimized by the ability to increase texture resolutions while maintaining the same memory requirements"

S3TC is the baseline algorithm, the variants of it are DXT

(i do not know what i'm talking about)

[high current]

it's 8 bit color iirc. It groups pixels into 4x4 "super-pixels" and then assigns the two min/max colors of those pixels and each pixel inside that is a graident of the super-pixel. If I am remembering my old interpretation of the documentation

[next nymph]

yes: dxt is a block compression scheme that does lossy compression with those 4x4 blocks

useful because, when every block is the same number of bytes, you can still index into arbitrary pixels. Can't do that with variable-length compression schemes

[high current]

Its also very cheap to decompress right?

[next nymph]

relatively, yeah

the main thing to keep in mind is that it doesn't actually decompress in memory. The DXT compressed image is stored on the gpu and the gpu knows how to interpret it. That's where the big benefits of arbitrary indexing (without having to decompress the entire image) comes in: since the shader will just sample arbitrary points so it's a very good fit

[grim parcel]

dudes got tor pinned

[rare creek]

I use it very often, some sites I don't want to see my real ip address (like link shorteners or random links sent in DMS) and some other sites I don't want my network administrators to see me visit (such as a LGBT wiki) I use it at least once a day

[craggy ridge]

check their hard drive

[craggy ridge]

is there any problem in your network administrator knowing that you visit the LGBT wiki

[grim parcel]

also vpn

[craggy ridge]

Is your network administrator your mom?

[grim parcel]

or if it's like a parent or something, DoH is good enough

[rare creek]

Tor is free, secure VPN isn't

[rare creek]

I already have it but they are very smart parents

[rare creek]

Yeah, im in the closet xd

[craggy ridge]

but is it someone who you know?

the network administrator

[grim parcel]

enough to sniff packets for sni leaks?

or well

care to in the first place

[rare creek]

Yes!!!! My fucking dad!!!!!

[warped plume]

https://tenor.com/view/i-saw-what-you-deleted-cat-gif-25407007

[rare creek]

There's literally no reason to take the risk

[grim parcel]

fair ig

but wouldn't tor also be a bit of a risk?

[cursive peak]

If you gotta be that deep in the closet, would recommend getting the fuck outta that house at 18.

[craggy ridge]

rent prices

[rare creek]

im autistic so it's being really hard to move out

[hushed basin]

https://tenor.com/view/oogway-saying-oogway-yesterday-is-history-tomorrow-is-a-mystery-but-today-is-a-gift-gif-21874265

[rare creek]

i use it to pirate games

[lean cove]

wtf

thats so slow wtf

u mean dl torrents?

[rare creek]

no i download the entire game over the tor network at 14kb/s

so i can finish one game while the next downloads

[limpid panther]

that's actually awesome and pretty

[left sand]

which looks better

for mouth movements

[radiant merlin]

i don't see any difference

[hushed basin]

It's honestly hard to tell until you get to the last facial expressions, imo the first looks better

[rare creek]

they look the same

[limpid panther]

The difference I am getting is that he holds the facial expression for longer in the second one

but it's really hard to tell

[paper sluice]

what differences should we be looking for

find in fade out of expressions or

[jagged pawn]

they said different lines

jokes aside I'm only seeing what kenaj said, second one feels SLIGHTLY more expressive but not in any meaningful way

[summer steeple]

(they didn't make the other checks not use magic numbers)

i don't even think this function is used so its moot i guess

@left sand you made a typo in the ultra settings for cheap water

actually i regret pinging you over that since now i'm second guessing that its a mistake shit

[hushed basin]

I see the added 2

[summer steeple]

yeah i just had a mini panic moment where i was like "wait hold on is that number supposed to have an added digit or not"

also its actually the added 1 at the end

[hushed basin]

oh

thought it was going to be the same value number

I rechecked for myself, you be right

[left sand]

fixed

sorry, im a bit random about whether i mind pings or not but it doesnt usually have to do with anything people say

mostly to do with how im feeling

[summer steeple]

i mean it was mostly that i hate pinging people, altho that also might've been subconscious somewhere in my brain saying "don't do this its not that important"

[left sand]

i mean, if something is important or whatever, i wont mind it even if im feeling bad

but yeah i appreciate you finding it and pinging me for the quick correction

[summer steeple]

cool

[rare creek]

#1072696252162117752 message

valve in 2009 vs valve in 2017-

[hushed basin]

this code doesn't work... to bad!

[wild grove]

If someone owns a strange weapon with the robots destroyed part on it, I need you to test something.

Could you first check the count of the part, go in a offline training match (doesn't turn off item servers), and then after killing a AI bot with the weapon with the part on it, check the count to see if it increased or not? Do not enable sv_cheats.

[craggy ridge]

oh my what are the odds

[lean cove]

bro this is literally cheats

[high current]

I don’t think this classifies as an unfair advantage. I think if anything it’d be a disadvantage.
But this is why sv_pure exists.

[lean cove]

bro what

solid bright player colors

reduced color map/background

the players are way easier to see

[high current]

I don’t think players being hard to see is really an integral part of game balance in tf2. If any thing I feel like you just lose depth perception.
I agree it looks dookie and it looks like cheats. But I think without a bot aiming for you it’d probably be more difficult to actually play.

iirc this is using mods that only work on sv_pure 0. So this is probably the most tame modifications going on in that server🤢

[wild grove]

Nah man, what you doing here is the max.

It's like an inch from crossing the line

[rare creek]

Lol he has fullbright on

Mf literally has sv_cheats bypass

[crisp cedar]

who PLAYS like this

wtf

idc if its cheats this looks like total shit

[rare creek]

i will never understand this argument, there are literally zero visibility issues in regular tf2

the gameplay is identical

there is no advantage

[crisp cedar]

i think its fine to bully puddin because who plays like this

even b4nny doesnt play like this

[rare creek]

if anything those graphics feel like they would destroy your depth perception

demoman would be impossible

[crisp cedar]

what kind of fuckin servers are you even playing on

why are you on 2v2 turbine

truly the strangest tf2 player ive ever known

[rare creek]

i was on doom 2016 multiplayer

ascended form of gamer

[craggy ridge]

I resort to 3 servers that i play on

[crisp cedar]

play quake live with me

[craggy ridge]

Ehhhhhhhj

Do i have to?

[rare creek]

hop on quake champions

2v2 clan arena

[craggy ridge]

I mean not really you can clearly see the depth

[next nymph]

go on a map with a lot of displacements 😉

[craggy ridge]

Like what

[next nymph]

i cant remember what maps were big offenders, but i remember it being an issue when i played with that stuff

[crisp cedar]

no

only quake 3 or quake live

[rare creek]

those games don't have crouch sliding

[crisp cedar]

youre such a baby

[high current]

Back before valve servers ran sv_pure you could install mods that legit added massive x,y,z arms to every player so you effectively had wall hacks. There may have even been straight up wall hacks enabled by sv_pure 0, I think VDC referenced something like applying ignorez to player models.
Plus other things like giant or glowing sticky traps, and basically anything short of aimbot.

Not to mention everyone else playing on sv_pure 0 servers are probably there just to use NSFW fem pyro mods, anime mods, pony mods, or some cursed combination of all of those.

[rare creek]

vq3 movement is boring

[next nymph]

There was even a time when a wallhack mod was on gamebanana that worked on sv_pure

[wild grove]

Those wall hacks you speak of were so ineffective that using cheats would be 1000x better judging by recent videos I watched of them a bit ago. And those issues could've been fixed without sv_pure 1 being enforced.

[cursive peak]

Shoutout to the mega exploit pack on gamebanana. Always heard it was the reason for the switch to pure 1 on Valve servers.

[wild grove]

Gamebanana should've removed it the moment it was uploaded but they were stupid and everyone in the modding scene suffered because of it. People should never forget what they did.

[next nymph]

if its the one im thinking of, its the reason that all materials are reloaded every time you join a map, taking a massive hit to load times

[cursive peak]

It was the one literally named "TF2 Mega Exploit Pack".

[wild grove]

God that whole gamebanana thing pisses me off.

[high current]

A better game company would have just sent gamebanana a “take this down or your next email will be from our lawyers”🤷‍♂️

The again every other game company would probably just lock out customizations from the inception of the game.

[high current]

Using cheats is probably easier too. I wouldn’t know cuz I’ve never tried either. But cheating in source games is notoriously trivial.

[left sand]

im making a decision on this, you can't share gameplay or links to mods which use high contrast players, they fall under the cheating rule now

[left sand]

this is patently false

there is not a single situation where there are neon players on your screen, attracting your peripheral and direct vision to players, especially hidden in drops and dark corners

[rare creek]

Phong lighting:

[left sand]

phong is not neon and also respect world lighting

[cursive peak]

Inb4 someone brings up Quake Live allowing you to force neon player models.

[high current]

Makes me wish diabolical had a lifespan longer than a month😢

[cursive peak]

Diabotical never felt good.

[next nymph]

the curse of relying on online multiplayer with an active community, and being a niche genre with a harsh learning curve

[high current]

It had a pretty good foundation and the developers updated it ABSURDLY frequently, including changing things like weapon feel and movement feel. So I think if it had gotten out of the gates it probably would have felt good.

[cursive peak]

When I tried it, the weapons didn't feel like anything.

[high current]

Also at the peak popularity of games that were arguably the furthest from retro-style arena shooters.

[cursive peak]

Might as well have been clicking around in Excel.

[wintry marlin]

do arena shooters suffer from lacking a large community because they're "unsuccessful" because of it?
Or because having a small loyal playerbase harms the approachability of it?

[high current]

You could say it was excel-lent👀

[next nymph]

both

[high current]

I think a combination of both

[wintry marlin]

if it's both then unfortunately you've made quake champions

I don't think arena FPS genre is going to go big anytime soon.

[cursive peak]

QC isn't bad. It just needed more love years ago.

[wintry marlin]

Ideally the games need to scale down to where the bar of success is easy to reach.

[cursive peak]

Arena FPS should've never fallen.

[wintry marlin]

like a passion project.

[high current]

Quake champions just feels like it’s trying to be something it’s not. I don’t hate it, but it just feels like it’s trying to be apex legends without the downtime, with bunny hopping scaled up. Less like quake with more characters imo

[wintry marlin]

QC is a high budget game that came at a point where there was no demand for it and it needed to be cooked.

[rare creek]

*a worse game company

only a worse game company would use lawyers instead of fixing the game

only for another exploit to appear elsewhere

an endless game of whack-a-mole

[cursive peak]

I don't think QC is high budget.

[next nymph]

I agree, it feels like most of these quakelikes are mostly because the developers want to work on a quakelike even if there's no realistic audience to sustain it. It just makes sense to approach it like, say, roguelikes -- hobby projects that doesnt really matter if it doesnt go anywhere because the goal was to make something, not to make something massively popular

[wintry marlin]

I am also under the impression that QC is a live service game that requires maintenance of a matchmaking server.

[rare creek]

quake champions would be a really good game if it didn't run like total ass and suffer from technical issues that would go unfixed for years

in terms of gameplay it is pretty much perfect imo

[wintry marlin]

Bethesda just really loves liabilities, you know.

[high current]

I mean, sicking your lawyers on people violating your TOS in harmful ways is probably easier than actually fixing it.
Granted yea they should just properly fix it instead of bandaid fixes, but this is valve we’re fantasizing about.

Granted sicking your lawyers on something harmfully violating TOS then means you need to draw a line on what is harmful and what isn’t. And right now most source modding lays in a weird gray zone in the TOS.

[wintry marlin]

yeah the game is fun.

[wintry marlin]

Exactly what I want at this point.

I remember our previous talks on rhythm arena FPS games, that has turned into its own niche.

[cursive peak]

Quake and Unreal Tournament should be the dominant FPS games.

[wintry marlin]

it's cool to experiment with online shooters.
Arena shooters are as simple in principle as they come.

so, each spin on the genre starts with the initial layout that's just quake, then modified with a gimmick, or else.

I am under the impression that arena shooters are the testbed for gameplay mechanics rather than parameters and settings in which combat occurs.

[crisp cedar]

maybe if the game wasnt made by an ass it wouldve lived longer ;)

[small siren]

*maybe if the game

wasnt made by an ass it

wouldve lived longer ;)*

- rayne

[crisp cedar]

imo quake 3/live is just the best

its simple and very easy to grasp but has a high skill ceiling

its fun to just jump into and play

the idea of there being unique classes in quake just feels not quake

yknow

[small siren]

*the idea of there

being unique classes in

quake just feels not quake*

- rayne

[high current]

I feel like the addition of abilities to quake champions just added a lot of stuff to worry about to an already definitionally hectic format.
Also it looks grungier than the other quakes. Maybe that’s how the artists always envisioned it and new graphics actually portray that, but it just looks grodier now IMO. Though graphics can be ignored as far as I care, every game should include a flat texture setting.

[hybrid cloud]

im of the opinion that quake champions should've added ffa no abilities from the start or something so it wouldn't be as looked down upon

[crisp cedar]

or just play quake live

seriously

its just quake 3 but with a server browser and moddability

[small siren]

*its just quake 3 but

with a server browser and

moddability*

- rayne

[crisp cedar]

https://youtu.be/r8m2n0g58Fw?t=104

ok th eguy playing this sucks

[limpid panther]

the whole game sucks

[spare obsidian]

i think its late to the topic but finally mscom banned these things from here lol

[crisp cedar]

FUCK you

u got hentai girl on ur steam library u cant talk shit

[limpid panther]

I though by discord's guidelines we just weren't supposed to share links or instructions to acquire hacks. But after looking it up the actual wording is more broad than I remember:

Do not share content that violates anyone's intellectual property or other rights. This includes sharing or selling game cheats or hacks. For more information, please view Discord’s Copyright & Intellectual Property Policy.

so yea, I guess that's fair

[limpid panther]

ah yes, the game with the alphabet achievements

[crisp cedar]

quake fucks

[limpid panther]

I remember getting that when I wanted to customize my profile all pretty like

[crisp cedar]

go back to 24/7 2fort

we clown in this mf

[spare obsidian]

[limpid panther]

yoo wtf

[paper sluice]

@limpid panther why do you have this

🥹

[spare obsidian]

kinda ironic you criticize kenej

[limpid panther]

once upon a time it was cool to use the achievement showcase to spell out your name with achievements whose images are letters

[paper sluice]

Ohhhh

[limpid panther]

I forgot to delete the game when that wasn't a thing anymore

[paper sluice]

Makes sense

[limpid panther]

this one I don't get though

done :D

[radiant merlin]

are steam profile avatars moderated?

[left sand]

yes

[spare obsidian]

yes

[craggy ridge]

dude you DO NOT want to get in a discussion about video game tastes

[crisp cedar]

i put my league account up for display just so it can say raynesex

last time i opened league was like 2 weeks ago or 3

not a game im invested in rly so... try again!

[craggy ridge]

I didn't see you pointing that out when talking about Kenaj's hentai girl game

[rare creek]

last time i opened tf2 was a month ago and i consider myself fairly invested in tf2

[high current]

Aren’t custom huds and other similar modifications technically against Valve TOS. Even though it’s actively accommodated by the developers, if not encouraged by Valve in general?

To be clear, I’m not arguing with mcoms’s decision to ban posts of the high contrast player models.

[limpid panther]

nothing here about Valve TOS

just discord TOS, guidelines, mastercomfig code of conduct and #rules📘

[high current]

I thought TOS kinda fell in line with intellectual property. But I might be mistaken

[limpid panther]

so the definitions of cheating that matter are basically Discord's and mcoms'

[high current]

Right

It’s just an interesting point of note anytime discussion around game modification comes up

[limpid panther]

I don't know if I would equate the two

[high current]

There’s probably some legal mumbojumbo about the two. But I’m not a lawyer🤷‍♂️

[cursive peak]

I think you also have to define what kind of game mod you're talking about. Plenty can be made from original content or only distribute the original content parts.

[spare obsidian]

also the flat color mod also violates the gamebanana TOS

lol

also idk why would someone use that, it looks so ugly

[crisp cedar]

id take the L from you but you play omori

so i can't really

[craggy ridge]

🇴 🇲 🇴 🇷 🇮 🔛🔝 🔥 🔥

[crisp cedar]

pedophilia🔥🔥

[orchid sorrel]

[next nymph]

clean tf2 plus doesnt distribute any base files and therefore is the only legal mod

[potent wolf]

mastercomfig illegal!??!?!?!!?

[summer steeple]

valve is always pretty loose with their intellectual properties

altho idk if its in writing what you can and can't do exactly

this is the closest i can find in the subscriber agreement

[paper sluice]

https://gamebanana.com/mods/439661

this hat is so awemseom

[orchid sorrel]

im surprised NeoDement hasnt submitted her improved robot models as a fix

getting those in game would be amazing for comm servers

[spare obsidian]

i wonder if someone would fix the energy orb weapon effect

like i'm not sure what was actually the issue with it

[jagged pawn]

I mean there are already some solid fixes out there. idk if they're on workshop tho

like https://gamebanana.com/mods/11900

[hybrid cloud]

think they mean weapon unusuals

but yea this change should be in the game

[spare obsidian]

yeah basically this

[limpid panther]

good news: I aquired a laptop with a broken screen that I plan on repairing in the future

but for now it can serve as a good way to benchmark low-spec tf2

it has a Ryzen 2500U

which is Vega Graphics

so rn im running a permutation of the main modules, based in mastercomfig low

I will compare with the same test on a CPU limited mid-range machine later (my main PC) but for now I cannot use it for benchmarks because I have other stuff I need to do with it

[rare creek]

best loadout

[spare obsidian]

how to be useless to the team: starter pack

[high current]

Equip equalizer

[zealous pond]

Not useless for having fun.

[high current]

Honestly would be a pretty fun loadout back when rocket jumper made you survive the kamikaze taunt.

[cursive peak]

Could make it worse by using the Pain Train with it on a CTF map.

[high current]

That hud is kinda nice ngl

[rare creek]

I considered it but I realized that the damage penalty from the marked for death was way more punishing when you already have fast movement with the rocket jumper

[high current]

Does equalizer not mark you for death?

[rare creek]

it does not

[high current]

interesting. I will do nothing with that information lol

[rare creek]

the fact im not bottom fragging...

[rare creek]

tbh I think I'm going to steal some other hud's scoreboard and replace xhud's scoreboard with it

so much missing information

or I could make my own lol

[cursive peak]

Do it. Make your own.

[rare creek]

y

I suck at vgui

[cursive peak]

What could be more perfect than one made to your personal specifications?

[rare creek]

a scoreboard made by a ui designer

which isnt me

hud developers are essentially just rookie ui designers

[cursive peak]

Or they're just people like you who decided to make their own custom HUD.

[paper sluice]

nuh uh

[rare creek]

im not making my own hud

[cursive peak]

It's a piece of one.

When I did mine, I even set it up so turning on minmode made it a tiny scoreboard with only enough room for 9 players on each team and everything else removed.

[high current]

What other useful information is missing though👀

[rare creek]

dominations

revenges

buildings destroyed

[high current]

Why’s that useful?

[rare creek]

I like seeing it it's fun when I post screenshots of me at the top of the scoreboard with that information

[high current]

You have your domination medals next to your name, and you should never be dominated so there is no revenge to be had. And why’d you kill all those Teleporters when you could kill the people exiting them👀

[rare creek]

because destroying teleporters hurts the enemy team a lot

it gets pretty easy to capture points when you destroy teleporters

[high current]

But the scoreboard isn’t meant to please everyone. I just made it by going through the list of elements and going “was I aware that existed?”
If yes, keep it.
If not, YEET

Ideally you destroy the Teleporter like once per point. Which usually ends up being 2-3 per enemy hold (in casual). So maybe you get 10-15 a game. Any more than that and you were either playing spy or you probably needed to focus less on the buildings and more on the engi imo

[cursive peak]

There we go, left is normal, right is minmode

[radiant merlin]

i've heard that there's gonna be a vgui update

does anyone has a source?

[formal dew]

Elaborate

[high current]

I’m also listening👀

[orchid sorrel]

ficool i assume

[formal dew]

technically isnt the vgui in source games vgui 2

[paper sluice]

Doesn’t s2 use panorama or whatever or is that just a csgo thing

[summer steeple]

source 2 uses it and it was backported to cs:go

idk what a vgui update even could be

aside from exposing some vgui stuff to vscript, but thats less a vgui update and more a vscript one

[rare creek]

hopefully bugfixes

[paper sluice]

Coms’ vgui fixes added 😳

[jagged pawn]

yeah panorama is the only thing I could think of but they'd have to completely redo the stock hud in it which I'm sure they don't want to do

dunno where you heard this ashe

[wintry marlin]

It's been a whole year for me... I'm divorced