Team Fortress 2 Megathread - winter is the most chill time of year

[unborn pecan]

grrrr

😡

Conterization

[spare obsidian]

bruh

[left sand]

isnt that good?

because like

[unborn pecan]

not if you're me (insane and stupid)

[crisp cedar]

it runs fine for me on linux

[left sand]

its way better than the original way of doing it

which is like

[crisp cedar]

and its literally even about to run even better

[left sand]

the ubuntu 12 stuff

[unborn pecan]

Steam level steam runtime?

[crisp cedar]

https://www.supergoodcode.com/oom/

[unborn pecan]

It's using base Steam runtime

not like

Soldier

or Sniper

I don't know how up to date that is

[crisp cedar]

they will push an update that will soon reduce memory usage by 85%

in dota 2

[potent wolf]

Ok?

[crisp cedar]

for linux only

[unborn pecan]

Also like

[crisp cedar]

on amd

[potent wolf]

what's your point

[unborn pecan]

Does dota 2 work better on proton?

[crisp cedar]

from 3 gib to 400 mib

[unborn pecan]

I know source 1 is better on Linux native

[unborn pecan]

I hate conterization I have no point

[limpid panther]

why use a runtime anyways? It's system libs or nothing

[potent wolf]

skill issue

[unborn pecan]

I am honestly just brodying around

[unborn pecan]

Honestly

[potent wolf]

no

[limpid panther]

/s

[unborn pecan]

🫡 Come and Take it (my system libs)

[potent wolf]

ah lol

[unborn pecan]

😭

[crisp cedar]

anyways @unborn pecan if ur genuinely down to try it again but with a friend let me know

[spare obsidian]

just release dota 2 has a flatpack

[limpid panther]

me when nixos

[unborn pecan]

ok

[crisp cedar]

i will be down to play with you or explain things you dont understand

[small siren]

*i will be down to

play with you or explain things

you dont understand*

- rayne

[unborn pecan]

how do I get good fast?

[crisp cedar]

i like teaching new players 👍

im not even good

i mean

im good but

[potent wolf]

😭

[crisp cedar]

not super good

[unborn pecan]

@left sand are you a good dota 2 teacher

[crisp cedar]

she plays turbo only

[unborn pecan]

I don't know what that means

[crisp cedar]

gamemode where games take half as long

[left sand]

source 2 is better than source 1 in terms of native

honestly source 1 has some things worse in native

[unborn pecan]

I know that four source 1

DXT5 alpha texutre compressions are broken in Source 1

sometimes the audio gets stretched a bit in Source 1

uhhhh

🤔

[left sand]

source 2 has a native vulkan renderer

[unborn pecan]

That too

[left sand]

dont you love vulkan

open source boy

[unborn pecan]

yes I do 😎

[spare obsidian]

sometimes

[potent wolf]

vulkan is epic

[unborn pecan]

Yes I am an open source boy

Vulkan is swag

ToGL is not bad either

[crisp cedar]

they like vulkan so much

[unborn pecan]

neither is DXVK

[potent wolf]

NO NONOONONON

[crisp cedar]

they removed opengl

and dx9

[potent wolf]

BURN TOGL

[spare obsidian]

can i fork your house?

[crisp cedar]

from dota 2

[potent wolf]

KILL IT

[spare obsidian]

[unborn pecan]

🫡 Go ahead

[unborn pecan]

so based

Also

Uh

CSGO DXVK crashes

[potent wolf]

owned

[unborn pecan]

or maybe it's just CS:GO

[spare obsidian]

yeah it does

[crisp cedar]

ok?

cs2 is coming

[unborn pecan]

My problem with CS:GO opengl

as of now

Is that whenever your drivers update

or your shader cache is deleted

CSGO takes forever to load

and eats up 8GiB of ram

Doing the first load with no shader cache for your current driver version

[unborn pecan]

yes cs2

ok so

about cs2

Why teh fuck does everything look so like

Bright and colorful

@left sand mastercoms, you are clearlly an official valve representative

[spare obsidian]

no longer dark and grinny

[unborn pecan]

why does CS2 look like candy

Probably cause of Valorant

or Overwatch 2

[crisp cedar]

i think its because of player visibility actually

[spare obsidian]

this

[crisp cedar]

that or just realism

[left sand]

you can look at cs2 in game and it doesnt look as bad

[crisp cedar]

it looks worse in some places but

[unborn pecan]

I am not saying it looks bad

[spare obsidian]

cs2 looks good tbh

[crisp cedar]

it does look more realistic

[left sand]

also better global illumination. CSM didn't mix global illumination very well

[crisp cedar]

like that really sunny spot in t spawn

in nuke

sure it looks worse but its realistic

do u know that image of a really sunny place irl

[unborn pecan]

True

That's what youtubers said

That player visibility is great in CS2

[crisp cedar]

captioned with "oh the world rendered fullbright"

[unborn pecan]

what is CSM?

[spare obsidian]

cascade shadow mapping

[left sand]

the shadows

dynamic full scene shadows

that are in CS:GO

[spare obsidian]

this

[unborn pecan]

Oh true

CSGO has this weird thing

[crisp cedar]

one thing i know about cs2 is that it has a ton of graphics settings

[unborn pecan]

Where you can see the border between the real time shadows

and the baked shadows

[crisp cedar]

so i assume you will be able to tweak the lightning slightly

[left sand]

yeah

[crisp cedar]

if it's an issue to you

[unborn pecan]

Oh yeah

Speaking of CS2

[spare obsidian]

you can disable csm in cs2 lol

[crisp cedar]

it's source 2 after all!

[unborn pecan]

I think somebody found a way to get the torrent running

With a DLL hexcode edit

[crisp cedar]

old news

[unborn pecan]

wtf

😭 i am out of the loop

[crisp cedar]

like reaaally old news

[spare obsidian]

Brody are you internet explorer?

[crisp cedar]

it's been done in like day 2

[unborn pecan]

Brody uses Librewolf only

🫡

[spare obsidian]

based

[unborn pecan]

Open Source Boy

[crisp cedar]

and in like day 4 they got networking dlls patched

[potent wolf]

That's been known for a while now

[unborn pecan]

😔 i am just old

[crisp cedar]

so now you can play on dedicated cracked servers

[unborn pecan]

oh lol

[left sand]

cracked servers?

[spare obsidian]

servers in non steam mode

[crisp cedar]

please don't be cracked

yea

non steam servers

[left sand]

https://tenor.com/view/90s-gif-19942050

[potent wolf]

listen servers i assume?

[spare obsidian]

kind off

[unborn pecan]

erm what the building

My favorite fortnite joke from tik tok

was like

Fortnite players build whole ass apartment complexes whenever they get grazed

[crisp cedar]

anyways

cs2 has this awesome thing that even i, as a dota player, am really jealous of

they have graphics options previews in real time

they just render the game

[unborn pecan]

Oh that's so based

I love games that do that

[crisp cedar]

it's so fucking good and im really jealous

its not even an image

[unborn pecan]

Some games I play have the options menu transparrent

[crisp cedar]

its literally the game being rendered

[unborn pecan]

so you can see the world

[crisp cedar]

you can even zoom in

and see the pixels

for ppl who really wanna know the difference

[unborn pecan]

hot

oh damn

even hotter

[spare obsidian]

also

legs

the thing that L4D2 players lost years ago

[unborn pecan]

what does that mean

I don't know no nothing about L4D2

[spare obsidian]

cs2 added body awareness

[crisp cedar]

you can see your own legs but i assume that's only because they let you see your own player shadow

cuz i assume it looked weird when u could see ur shadow but not ur legs

[unborn pecan]

Oh cool

I think you can do that in TF2

using some console commands

[spare obsidian]

kind off

its buggy at times

[crisp cedar]

the radar also shows the radius of like

the radius of where enemies can hear your sounds

[unborn pecan]

😭 Radius

[crisp cedar]

reloading, moving, etc

the molotov has the half life alyx liquid shader and it reacts to sunlight

i forgot one last thing

[spare obsidian]

too bad you can't shake it like in VR so you can't see the full shader in action

[wintry marlin]

thanks 3kliks

[crisp cedar]

i mean it follows the camera orientation

if you look up the liquid moves

and like

the liquid tilts in the way that your playermodel would be or whatever

[spare obsidian]

ye

[crisp cedar]

anyways

you can talk shit about s2 all u want

but holy shit

[unborn pecan]

Source 2

more like

Source Poo

[crisp cedar]

i cant get over how awesome the lightning is

basically

[unborn pecan]

I will miss the gritty look of CSGO

[crisp cedar]

the light reacts to the green tarp

[unborn pecan]

But yeah

This lighting is fire

[crisp cedar]

and turns the light green

slightly green

its so awesome

[unborn pecan]

I think CSGO did that?

but like

with VRAD

[crisp cedar]

i dont care it does this better

[unborn pecan]

fr

@left sand Does source 2 still do baked lighting?

[crisp cedar]

im pretty sure csgo didnt show the light shining through the tarp itself

[small siren]

*im pretty sure csgo

didnt show the light shining

through the tarp itself*

- rayne

[summer steeple]

yes

[crisp cedar]

like the tarp didnt have any lightning

[spare obsidian]

didn't s2 has like day and night system on it?

[summer steeple]

its just way fucking better in s2

[potent wolf]

yes

[crisp cedar]

i dont see why u wouldnt be able to do it on s1

if ur thinking about day and night that's from dota

which is on source 2

and had a day and night system way back in source 1, 2012

[unborn pecan]

Oh cool

[summer steeple]

yeah you can do day/night in s1 too, but its definitely more limited

[wintry marlin]

you can disable realtime shadows completely to default to static baked ones

[crisp cedar]

and had a day and night system way back in warcraft 3, 2002

[summer steeple]

like at the very least you could just like adjust color correction to simulate day night

[spare obsidian]

i really want to port that CSO2 big city map to cs2 lol

[summer steeple]

without messing with baked lighting at all

but if you really want to

you can have 2 sets of lights

and VRAD can swap between them

BUT

[unborn pecan]

vrad is hot

literally makes my cpu run hot

[summer steeple]

you will likely find yourself hitting various limits

usually BSP limits

[crisp cedar]

source 2 also does things different

in terms of like

maps

[summer steeple]

yeah

[spare obsidian]

maps are modular

[crisp cedar]

maps for example dont store skyboxes in them anymore

the skybox is on a seperate map

the main menu is a seperate map

even the graphics preview in the settings is a map

[left sand]

skybox being a separate map is probably just dust2

to make the 3d skybox easier to port over

[crisp cedar]

yea true

[summer steeple]

also worth noting that day/night would suck outside of a top down view in S1 in branches without skybox_swapper

since you'd have to have a generic looking skybox or just completely fake it

[left sand]

the skybox can be multiple maps that are just like any other template in the level

[spare obsidian]

outside of dota s1 sybox_swapper doesn't work has intented iirc

[unborn pecan]

Dota 2 uses steam runtime soldier

[summer steeple]

I honestly have no clue how it functions in other games but the backport to tf2 works fine

[unborn pecan]

🫡 I am lucnhing dota 2

@crisp cedar is dota 2 a heavy game to run

Brody is in

[crisp cedar]

it runs so well nobody's bothered making a custom config for it to increase performance

oh did u get the

intro

[unborn pecan]

no I played dota 2 before

[crisp cedar]

no the new hero intro

[unborn pecan]

i skipped

[crisp cedar]

they do this epic thing where they just render a cinematic ingame

wtf

ok

[small siren]

*they do this epic

thing where they just render a

cinematic ingame*

- rayne

[crisp cedar]

whatever

let me boot the game up real quick

[spare obsidian]

can we rename this thread to god's mistake

[limpid panther]

this looks terrible imo

the tarp specially is super weird matte

[crisp cedar]

stabs you in the stomach

[unborn pecan]

😭 kenaj makes a good point

[limpid panther]

instead of being unevenly dirty, or shiny-ish plastic like it should

[summer steeple]

idk what you mean, it seems dirty?

maybe not dirty enough

[crisp cedar]

its just a tarp

also yea

i actually agree that the entire map

not just the tarp

isnt dirty enough

its too clean

[limpid panther]

no, its just too even. I they are going for a dusty tarp, it should be less even, but always opaque. If they are going for a clean tarp, it should be more shiny and let in more light

but it's neither, its evenly matte

so it looks weird

[summer steeple]

i kinda see what you mean?

[limpid panther]

also the shells lack any sort of texture

[summer steeple]

yeah that is a valid complaint

[limpid panther]

I get that they are new and in a pallet, but metals are never that smooth looking

[summer steeple]

I mean I honestly kinda assume that many of the assets in the beta aren't finished

[limpid panther]

true

[summer steeple]

like even the guns themselves

some look great

[limpid panther]

I just wanted to say that this screenshot specially, is not impressive

[crisp cedar]

i mean iirc

[summer steeple]

and others look like they haven't had a polish pass done yet

[limpid panther]

still excited for s2 though

[crisp cedar]

dust and mirage

are both maps that were just straight up ported

they didnt change much about them

they just ported them and called it a day

[spare obsidian]

ehh i mean

tbf those maps where made in s2

and backported to s1

[summer steeple]

ok but the issue here is the assets

s2 uses PBR rendering, s1 does not

[unborn pecan]

I like DUST

DUST IS SO AMAZING

I WANT DUST BACK IN COMP PLS LORD BE GOOD TO US

[potent wolf]

I'm going to put dust in your eyes

[left sand]

aveyo did

[crisp cedar]

i dont know who that is and i dont know if i can trust them

[spare obsidian]

you can't trust anybody

[potent wolf]

If you can't trust anyone, then shut off your computer right now and blow it up

[heavy solar]

@potent wolf has leveled up! (36 ➜ 37)

[spare obsidian]

doing it rn

[left sand]

@next nymph do you think there would be a way to add an allowlist functionality to CleanTF2+ basically to do nohats headsfeet?

[jagged pawn]

it's insane to me how those servers ever got popular, it's probably just because of the creators.tf affiliation because jesus christ they were even less balanced than vanilla

also my thumb hurts from all of you using this channel for some reason instead of #1085396242802159727

[potent wolf]

staying on topic? never!

[jagged pawn]

anyway trying to work on my own tf2 related stuff has made me realize why valve abandoned it lol this thing blows

[hybrid cloud]

hmm i wonder why it didnt pan out very well

[next nymph]

should already be capable of it iirc

[spare obsidian]

also not to mention hipgs got his ego too high :/

[left sand]

is there a flag for that currently or do you mean that it could be added pretty easily?

and are there any allowlists provided for ease of use?

[next nymph]

added pretty easily

i believe the system is all in there, you just need to modify the lists themselves

[jagged pawn]

oh definitely but even that aside he is simply really really bad at game balance

[paper sluice]

He’s kinda right about the wrangler being a shitty op thing but the balance was not it

[hybrid cloud]

the way he went about it was more like he was skeptical and then hearing the criticism made him think "no the wrangler is fine y'all are just mad"

50% is still pretty insane

[paper sluice]

Real

[craggy ridge]

ktbm might be dead but it's still 🔛 🔝

[summer steeple]

bruh

"because we nerfed the wrangler, we made regular engi ridiculous"

????

[crisp cedar]

lmfao turtling never been easier

[craggy ridge]

wrangler has no shield

all your buildings are like paper

[craggy ridge]

no idea how is nerfing wrangler making turtling easier

[crisp cedar]

half upgrade cost?

[daring tiger]

I think those changes are pretty fine except for the half upgrade cost

that's insane

[small siren]

*I think those changes

are pretty fine except for

the half upgrade cost*

- josh

[craggy ridge]

yes

engi is so bad without wrangler it's unreal

[summer steeple]

engi is fine without it

[craggy ridge]

if your buildings just got shreded and that's it he would be absolutely dogwater

[summer steeple]

ur just bad

[craggy ridge]

nuh uh

[hoary geyser]

pudding confirmed bad at engineer

[craggy ridge]

even in pubs wranglerless engi gets his ass beaten

[summer steeple]

I literally never use the wrangler

engi is fine

[craggy ridge]

and trust me ktbm engi is such a far cry from wrangler engi

you are not going to take advantage of half upgrade cost when the enemy is pushing, as opposed to the wrangler

[summer steeple]

I feel like half upgrade cost with the jag would be ridiculous

just instantly get a level 3 sentry back up

[craggy ridge]

it got changed, but i played the mod when it wasn't shut down and no it wasn't

[summer steeple]

40% higher max upgrade rate per swing?

[craggy ridge]

35 per swing

3 swings to next level

[summer steeple]

with construction speed boost????

thats ridiculous

literally like

[craggy ridge]

it's not

[summer steeple]

part of the reason engi is balanced is because if you take out a level 3 its down for a good bit

[craggy ridge]

yeah that's how wrangler engi is balanced

[summer steeple]

no

[craggy ridge]

yes

[summer steeple]

its how engi is balanced

as a class

[craggy ridge]

wranglerless engi is miserable

[summer steeple]

skill issue

[hoary geyser]

pudding I think you just aren't good at engi lol

[potent wolf]

and wrangler engie is miserable to fight

[craggy ridge]

even at pubs if the enemy team uses 10% brain capacity sentries are not a problem unless engi stacking

when RGL banned wrangler from hl engineers were just free demoman log buffer

these changes make engi interactions more dynamic for both sides

sentries no longer have 640 health

[summer steeple]

also tbh i feel like focusing on the sentry is kind of missing the point too

because engi isn't just his sentry

if anything, his sentry is meant to deter an enemy team, at least for a bit, to help the team if they need to back up

its not meant to kill people

or to live forever

[craggy ridge]

that's practically what it does currently

even in highly coordinated enviroments it's a pain in the ass to destroy them

[summer steeple]

i'm not talking about the wrangler

like that is broken

[craggy ridge]

i don't know how kt sentries act any differently from what you described then

[summer steeple]

its not the sentries themselves but the stuff that happens in between

[hybrid cloud]

hot take i don't think sentries should last forever

[summer steeple]

making that window between level 3 sentries smaller is... probably not a good idea

not a hot take

[craggy ridge]

the window with the wrangler is non existent because the thing is not getting destroyed in the first place 😭

[summer steeple]

i'm not talking about the fucking wrangler please

[crisp cedar]

what if engineer had a weapon that upgraded/healed the sentry when you shot an enemy with it

[summer steeple]

how many times do i have to say that

[craggy ridge]

engineer revolves around the wrangler

[summer steeple]

he literally does not

the class is called the engineer

not the wrangler

you can play engi without the wrangler

and many people do

[craggy ridge]

it's called the pyro not the flamethrower

[crisp cedar]

you are bad at engineer

[summer steeple]

the wrangler or its balance is not in question here

[craggy ridge]

many people play demoknight

[hybrid cloud]

engineer doesn't revolve around the wrangler, map makers just can't deal without it so they build maps to accommodate for it

[summer steeple]

i am specifically talking about engineer WITHOUT the wrangler

[craggy ridge]

it is because it affects how the class is played because that's how unlock balance works

[summer steeple]

ok but

[craggy ridge]

yeah he can't defend for shit

[summer steeple]

you keep talking about how with the wrangler the sentry isn't going down

but in this mod

the wrangler is nerfed

so it is moot

when a sentry dies

[hybrid cloud]

barely nerfed tbh

[summer steeple]

that is a window of opportunity

shortening that window is a very dangerous game to play

[hybrid cloud]

engineer backs up his team as much as the team backs up the engineer

[craggy ridge]

in a coordinated push you are not supposed to give the engi a space to somehow build another sentry

[summer steeple]

yes of course not

[hybrid cloud]

sentries aren't supposed to be the final say in defense they're support buildings

[craggy ridge]

look how well that turned in wranglerless hl

[summer steeple]

but tf2 is not a competitive game

i'm sorry, but it is not

at least, not first

[craggy ridge]

i'm using it as an example

[summer steeple]

not every game is going to have a coordinated push

and tf2 is balanced around that

[hybrid cloud]

i think that says more about the class and format than the unlock itself

if engi is so dependent on wrangler let's address it at engi 's core

[craggy ridge]

if your team isn't pushing properly you deserve to lose, killing the engi is not hard a concept

even with the wrangler pubbers are capable of pushing

[hybrid cloud]

no they are not

[summer steeple]

pubbers are... not particularly coordinated

[craggy ridge]

point stands

[hybrid cloud]

pubbers will not push until the enemy team has left an opening for a minute straight and then they finally build the confidence

[craggy ridge]

uh yeah and they can get through wrangled sentries and kill the engineer

[small siren]

*uh yeah and they can

get through wrangled sentries and

kill the engineer*

- Puddin

[craggy ridge]

not had to imagine the same can happen with unwragled sentries

[summer steeple]

I just don't think that in a situation where the engi lives, having a 10 second window until a new level 3 is up is not a very long window

[craggy ridge]

when the server was alive I literally saw bots pushing through kt engi

[hybrid cloud]

kill the engineer is a conclusion everyone has come to and wrangler is still considered a problem

it just makes the game feel worse to play

[crisp cedar]

what if instead we made it so that the sentry shield depends on the engineers max hp

so the shield is only up when engi is low hp

[craggy ridge]

yes because the wrangle sentry is god amongst men, so it defends the engi and tanks over 1000 hp and is godlike at stalling

[summer steeple]

i just don't get why we're even still talking about the wrangler

[craggy ridge]

killing a regular sentry is way easier

[hybrid cloud]

yes

[crisp cedar]

actually nvm that's a bad idea

[hoary geyser]

is anyone disagreeing that the wrangler is overpowered?

we're just disagreeing with you saying engi needs the wrangler to be good

[crisp cedar]

ill be honest i dont remember anyone ever using the wrangler in my games

[hybrid cloud]

if we want to keep the shield but get rid of turtling+easy defenses then make the shield resistance scale with how long you've been firing the sentry manually

[crisp cedar]

engis team empowers engi

[hybrid cloud]

make it take an active role in fights

[hybrid cloud]

nobody plays tf2 to win

[summer steeple]

i do :(

i like winning

winning is fun

[craggy ridge]

this is just kind of stupid

how does that change anything about the wrangler except that it's not extremely awkward to use it

[hybrid cloud]

well im not exactly a balancing master just spitballing something out there

[craggy ridge]

but it's just as effective

[crisp cedar]

okay fuck it just give engi an ubercharge and call it a day

[hoary geyser]

i play tf2 to lose! i hate winning!!

[small siren]

*okay fuck it just

give engi an ubercharge

and call it a day*

- rayne

[crisp cedar]

just let the wrangler uber the sentry and thats all

[hybrid cloud]

ok but nobody plays tf2 to win effectively

if people did that balance would be way different

[crisp cedar]

when the sentry reaches lvl 3 you can keep hitting it to store metal in it

up to 409

400

[hybrid cloud]

because people would notice how much of an issue heavy / engi / vacc medic stacks are

[crisp cedar]

when it hits 400 u can hit m2 on wrangler to shield your sentry

easy solution

[craggy ridge]

i do

[hybrid cloud]

idk then

[craggy ridge]

they do notice

but what are you going to do?

[crisp cedar]

dude fuck vacc medics theyre so annoying

[craggy ridge]

videos essays to convince valve to nerf them?

[hybrid cloud]

valve will not listen to me unless i paid them a billion dollars

[small siren]

*valve will not listen

to me unless i paid them

a billion dollars*

- Pathulhu

[potent wolf]

But it's so much fun to play vacc medic

It's not my problem that you have to suffer

[hoary geyser]

what is your guy's least favorite gamemode (not including ctf)

[crisp cedar]

payload

[summer steeple]

5cp

[crisp cedar]

more like gayload

actually

no

medieval mode

[summer steeple]

this is why whenever i play vacc med i ask the other team if its too much

[craggy ridge]

Medieval mode

[hybrid cloud]

used to be koth

now it's slowly becoming payload

[crisp cedar]

koth rocks wtf

[potent wolf]

koth is fun though :(

[crisp cedar]

u hate fun

[hoary geyser]

I don't like koth

[hybrid cloud]

i don't hate koth as a concept

i just can't stand any of the maps

[craggy ridge]

tf2 has a map problem

[potent wolf]

cascade, viaduct, lazarus, highpass, lakeside are all great koth maps imo

[craggy ridge]

as in the virtual in game environment

i mean tbf tf2 also has a MAP problem aswell

[small siren]

*i mean tbf

tf2 also has a

MAP problem aswell*

- Puddin

[craggy ridge]

bro tried to sneak in viaduct and lakeside

viaduct manages to somehow be the only map in the game without a flank route

[potent wolf]

I didn't lol, I like them

[craggy ridge]

lakeside is lakeside

[hybrid cloud]

i think tf2 has too many and a lot of them lose their luster after a couple games

[crisp cedar]

dustbowl is the best map and im not joking

its shit ys

[craggy ridge]

too many with not so good level design

[smoky notch]

[crisp cedar]

but i dont give a fuck

i love dustbowl

i love viaduct

[craggy ridge]

my fav map is ashville

[summer steeple]

I like dustbowl but it sucks ass

[craggy ridge]

no idea what's my favorite official map tho

prob hightower

[potent wolf]

what

[hybrid cloud]

dustbowl is supposed to be fun bad

[craggy ridge]

just fun to mess around

[hybrid cloud]

i enjoy gravelpit

[potent wolf]

why did you reply to a message at the start of the megathread...

[small siren]

*why did you reply

to a message at the start

of the megathread...*

- replaycoding

[craggy ridge]

let them cook

[potent wolf]

😭

I need answers

[craggy ridge]

tf2 but every kill i have to solve a rubix cube

[hoary geyser]

good thing you won't get any kills

[potent wolf]

How did you find out my KD ratio!?!?!?!?

[hybrid cloud]

my kd doesn't exist

(only gets kills)

[potent wolf]

my D ratio

(not even a ratio smh)

[drowsy quail]

congrats on the ring, mastercoms

[left sand]

thx

[hoary geyser]

oh didn't notice that

[jagged pawn]

damn I keep missing the discussion

• ktbm is just as lmao as higps sometimes though they do have some good ideas here and there
• koth is the best mode

[high current]

I feel like koth has good potential but every koth map sorta falls flat. They all have too restrictive chokes that make forward holds free assuming equal skill level, have too open sight lines that make sniper free OR artificially add obstacles all over the map to force sniper to not be able to see everything at the expense of literally everyone else being able to move, and they have some sort of weird dynamic on flank.

[craggy ridge]

Comparing ktbm to higps should be a crime

That's just mean

[high current]

-Viaduct/product, sniper rules all, forward holds are tough as shit to break, flank has a weird dynamic.
-Cascade, sniper op, forward hold isn’t too tough, flank dynamic is so weird. Like why does under point exist? You just sit under there and bait your team to go for a submarine heavy play only to get backstabbed by a spy that’s probably not allowed to live within 5 miles of a school.
-Ashville/Coal plant, why are these 2 different maps? Sniper op, forward holds are just dumb (not overly good or bad, just dumb), there’s 2 viable places to stand on the entire map, flank is probably the best of any koth map but if a mini sentry exists flank doesn’t exist (no, your soldier will not shoot it).
-Highpass, why isn’t this played in community comp?
-Lakeside, best map but sniper is omnipotent.

Oh there’s also bagel but that map smells like a bagel that’s been left on a sidewalk for too long. Also the lifts are a war crime and should disqualify the map from community comp.

[craggy ridge]

How is sniper op in ashville

Like yeah sniper is fucking nuts but that's just hl

I see the argument for coalplant, but ashville?

[jagged pawn]

I definitely agree that koth is held back by its maps but a simple google search could explain Ashville/Coalplant and sniper viaduct strength is imo overstated

[high current]

I think the lobby is slightly different but idk how these two maps exist in the same world and both are actively developed.

[jagged pawn]

there's 3 iterations

• ashville
• coalplant, made by other people who wanted to update it to fix problems found in the original (think product)
• ashville 2, made by people who wanted to update coalplant and for some reason decided to use the original name

[high current]

Sniper strength is overstated in general. But koth is definitely the strongest gamemode for him. It’s the perfect storm of maps being small enough that sniper isn’t too far from his team for support, and being too hard for flankers to get to the power sniper spots.

[jagged pawn]

ashville 2 is what's currently played

[craggy ridge]

I played on ashville and sniper is fine

[jagged pawn]

Sniper strength is overstated in general
TRUEEEEE highlander is only as slow as it is because he's mandated

[jagged pawn]

fsoas is (currently) the only good balance mod

[craggy ridge]

I mean yeah ktbm died lol

Fsoas is alright but i do not like their balance philosophy

[high current]

Ehhhhh. I think sniper in HL is overstated even. If sniper gets a kill and your teammate actually calls his position instead of baby raging, then no one else should die to sniper for the next 30-60 seconds.

That doesn’t happen because usually they person baby rages until at least one other person dies. And then usually people don’t listen to comms and die anyway. But sniper is similar-ish to spy in the sense that you can counter them but just paying attention

[craggy ridge]

I'd like if he had classic tracers

Yk how the classic leaves a trail when you shoot

Smth like that

But possible to see in dxlevel81

[high current]

I took like 3 years off of playing HL and came back to main for half a season as a meme and still had less sniper deaths than anyone else on my team, as a shitty pyro who would actively try to detantor spam the sniper. People just suck tbh

When machina wasn’t banned the tracers didn’t really affect the gun at all. But that was also sorta the “golden age” of HL, if such a thing existed. So communication over sniper position ACTUALLY happened.

I think sniper in 6s is actually stronger in HL. Because you don’t assume that sniper is going to exist, so the first kill is free for the sniper, and then the sniper isn’t playing to preserve their life anymore so they go for a hero shot which has a 30% chance of changing the 1 pick into 2, in a gamemode where each kill is 17% of your team.

Also 6s callouts aren’t as specific as HL callouts because sniper v sniper doesn’t happen as much in 6s. Where as in HL having different callouts for nuanced positions is necessary because of sniper v sniper.

[cursive peak]

Raging shouldn't be happening in comms regardless.

Do teams not have a "cut the unnecessary noise" call? Mine picked up the one my Heavy's first team used, "battle comms". Either me or him would just call that whenever things got too bad and cut everyone back to just the needed comms.

[craggy ridge]

My comms were PURE CHAOS

Once our heavy started olaying clash royale in the middle of the scrim

[next nymph]

get the youtube smosh "shut up" sound effect queued up and ready to go

[small siren]

*get the youtube smosh

"shut up" sound effect queued up

and ready to go*

- JarateKing

[wintry marlin]

do you just call out "battlecoms" for when you want comms quiet

call out as in loudly proclaim

[cursive peak]

If it was particularly egregious, it was shouted a few times.

HL is already 9 people talking. It takes so little to make it chaos, so keeping it under control is super important.

[wintry marlin]

and I get lost when there's borderlands characters talking while I am engrossed in combat

I can't imagine myself in that situation

[cursive peak]

It should all be relevant info instead of random BS.

[wintry marlin]

of course, though when hearing those comms it's almost as if they try to replace your ears.

calling out positions of when 7 of you can already see the guy being called out.

or calling out someone dying.

how often do people call out the same thing?

[cursive peak]

Usually only big picks in my experience.

[wintry marlin]

I imagine like 5 people having direct line of sight with enemy medic and all simultaneously yelling medic

I think redundant communication would peeve me a lot

[cursive peak]

Just look up povs that have comms.

[high current]

Usually you say “clear comms” to get people to stop cluttering. But there’s usually one or two people on the team who if they’re having a bad game they’ll go “god damnit dude every time! I can’t even see this guy!”. Might be different once you eventually reach invite, but I can confirm that even in advanced that holds true.

And then someone screaming “clear comms” for 5 seconds doesn’t actually help clear things up, it just replaces indiscernible clutter with awkward silence.

As a flank member (when I played scout). I usually just tried to keep comms to as little and concise as possible, while still effectively communicating with my other flank members or team. Combo gets a little more liberty with comms, but I’ve had main callers who needed to learn to get to the point faster too.

Granted I played scout at the weird point in time where it was about 33% of teams wanted you full time flank, 33% wanted you to be full time combo, and 50% wanted you everywhere at once. So I’d usually just go “give me a percentage for where you want me to play” whenever I first played for a team. And there’s be different mentalities for comms in each place. Combo has much more of a conversation going because you’re juggling healing and focus targets and stuff.
Flank is much more “you initiate on this guy, I’ll support. Go now. I’m in. Nice.”

[jagged pawn]

I love flank yeah so much easier

[jagged pawn]

how so? I do think that they're a bit reserved but I think that has a certain charm to it

to be clear the videos aren't always the same as what's on the server because he adds it and then people see the flaws in his ideas and try something else until they land somewhere good

in terms of the videos I think he's extremely good at identifying the problems with weapons and putting it into words but his solutions are hit or miss

[craggy ridge]

they just balance around casual

[jagged pawn]

I guess? but it works out I think

||I also have a balance doc but I haven't made a mod yet so it feels pointless to advertise||

[next nymph]

do it

[hybrid cloud]

balancing around casual isn't always the worst as long as you take care to ignore lowest common denominators

[next nymph]

my possibly controversial opinion is that if you balance for competitive then things are probably balanced okay enough for casual, but not necessarily the other way around.

[cursive peak]

I think that's only controversial for the casual players who hate competitive players.

[jagged pawn]

yeah trickle down balance is obviously true

[craggy ridge]

are you being ironic?

[wintry marlin]

sarcastic*

[craggy ridge]

it's so rare to see someone agree with me on this subject in specific

[jagged pawn]

I do think, though, that some weapons should exist that are purely for casual. example being like, the loose cannon. easily the worst grenade launcher in comp but no one is complaining because it's so fun casually

[jagged pawn]

nah I'm serious

[high current]

It is used in EU comp on last holds, basically gives demo airblast, is the theory at least.

[jagged pawn]

oh interesting

perhaps better than the loch n load then. point still stands

[high current]

I have a teammate who also insists that if youre cracked enough with loose cannon that it'd be good. And I think I agree, but at that point why not just get cracked with pipes?

Is loch and load even fun? It doesn't change anything other than making it harder to use pipes. Unless you fetishize killing engi buildings, in which case: god speed you glorious bastard

[jagged pawn]

I mean the same argument can be made with the direct hit but how often do you see people running that even at a top level? it's just not worth it

[craggy ridge]

same

[jagged pawn]

no it's garbage, objectively worse than stock

[craggy ridge]

loose cannon is a bad example because regular grenades shouldn't do so much knockback for no reason

[high current]

Direct hit is dumby good if you just wanna delete scouts. I hate it, I think it's op. I just think it is slept on, but I dont mind it being slept on

[jagged pawn]

I think it's fine but I get what you're saying

[high current]

How are you going to get frag movie clips if you cant juggle people

[jagged pawn]

real

[craggy ridge]

double donks should still do knockback tho imo

[high current]

Do they not? dang

[craggy ridge]

no, they do

I think regular grenade hits shouldn't

double donks should keep the knockback

[high current]

Oh gotchu. Eh then the weapon would be completely meme

[cursive peak]

DH is good for sentry busting, too.

[jagged pawn]

I'm not saying the direct hit is bad I love the design I'm just saying most comp soldiers aren't using it despite the obvious higher potential

[cursive peak]

I don't think it's actually higher. Splash is huge.

[high current]

Eh. It’s what like 140 damage directs in close range? That’s disgustingly high damage. I just don’t think anyone has bothered to get good enough at for the maximum potential to be seen

[cursive peak]

140 on a single target.

[high current]

You usually try to space far enough apart that splash only hits one anyway.

[cursive peak]

Soldiers still spam chokes to keep people from coming through them.

[high current]

Yeh it’d be a different play style. I think direct hit sacs would be nuts.

[cursive peak]

Not to mention bombs on Medics would be much riskier with the DH.

[high current]

Eh. You’d sorta just be playing scout that rocket jumps.

[cursive peak]

I've seen more bombs that killed via splash than directs.

[high current]

That’s cuz they’re playing with rocket launcher and splash is reliable. If you change your play style then you change your play style

[cursive peak]

Jesus, when you're playing in the grand finals, you want the reliability.

[high current]

Only 12 people play in grands though🤷‍♂️

[summer steeple]

honestly area denial in general is huge

[cursive peak]

You win grand finals by playing every match like it's the grand finals.

[small siren]

*You win grand finals

by playing every match like

it's the grand finals.*

- Steamworks

[high current]

I agree. I’m just saying no one has bothered to master direct hit in comp yet, so we have yet to be able to definitively say it’s awful.

[cursive peak]

You go absolutely ham every match regardless.

[high current]

I’m saying if someone went ham with DH and their team played around it, it probably wouldn’t be a throw

[formal dew]

my favorite tf2 weapon is the smoke grenade

[high current]

A team ran full time heavy to IM GFs two seasons ago iirc

[summer steeple]

honestly considering 6s teams tend to be 2 soldiers

having one of them run DH could be interesting

idk if you'd rather have a pocket or a roamer use it tho

[cursive peak]

This just sounds like shitty casual theorycrafting. Like, guys, guys, what if we ran Demoknight and Sniper full time!

[high current]

I think roamer probably. They’d be able to delete flank scout, then you have a 2v1 on flank, win that, then flank is free. Then you bomb med from unwatched flank👀

[formal dew]

minicrit combo with airshots is the secret sauce

[next nymph]

define "harder"

[craggy ridge]

they go further and faster

it's pretty fun

you can snipe people

[formal dew]

shortstop meta

[next nymph]

also there was an insomnia lan final or something that a team ran DH for a while, iirc to great effect but it fell off hard as soon as the other team was used to it and could play around it

maybe I'm misremembering but iirc the DH team stopped running DH and ultimately lost

[high current]

Ig higher risk / no reward. You miss you do nothing, you hit it does exact same damage as stock.

[hybrid cloud]

less prediction required to land pipes makes them easier to hit for less real reward

they only make pipes harder in the sense that if you main lnl for a good while and switch back to normal pipe speed you're fucked

[high current]

But still. Why would you use it

[hybrid cloud]

some people like pipe sniping or just really fucking hate engineer (based)

[rare creek]

my very controversial opinion is that the game is way more fun when balanced for competitive (which it largely already is)

[hoary geyser]

the problem is, competitive players hate fun

also, it's almost like balancing just off of one mode is always a bad idea, and every mode should be taken into consideration well balancing

[rare creek]

i find it fun to not play against bullshit

and have a fighting chance when i queue alone

[hybrid cloud]

competitive players don't hate fun

[rare creek]

i find it fun to be good at the game, not to use silly gimmicks

[small siren]

*i find it fun to

be good at the game, not to

use silly gimmicks*

- unsubtract

[hybrid cloud]

their idea of fun is different and i often trust them more than casuals because it tends to be "as little bullshit as possible"

[next nymph]

you miss with stock it probably won't do anything either. Loch is much easier to hit though

I think stock is an overall better and more versatile weapon, but I think loch is easier (at least, if you're past the early bump where you actually go for directs and don't rely on rollers as your crutch)

[summer steeple]

imo tf2 is stuck in this place rn where the majority of the weapons are in a great spot for a nice balanced game, but there are still some that are mostly (or completely) unchanged from a time when they didn’t really balance the game around that, so they stick out like a sore thumb

[hoary geyser]

play a different game then

[summer steeple]

like from what i remember, old tf2 balance was less about actual balance and more just making sure that weapons were pretty unique, fun, and not too broken

the actual balance of a weapon compared to say, other weapons in that slot was less of an influence on that weapon

now i could be misremembering

but thats just what i remember

whereas now the game is balanced more traditionally

I would say it is for the better tho

because i do not miss the way the game was in some of the older update

[left sand]

a lot of old weapons were ruined because they dont work with small teams or could be abused with high skill

[rare creek]

i do exactly that

[hoary geyser]

ok

[zealous pond]

Eh, game was most fun in the 2010-2012 period in my opinion.

[jagged pawn]

the fact that jarate and mad milk are largely untouched is insane

just delete the enemy team every 30 seconds as long as your team knows what just happened

[radiant merlin]

what do you think about this logo?

any good?

[wintry marlin]

I like the color palette but the design is uh hard to understand

I recognize it like some ms paint geometric shapes were merged together, is it supposed to be 5?

It looks like number 5

At first I thought it's a golf hole with a jagged flagpole

And I instinctively turn sideways to align with the curve

[radiant merlin]

the color is tan white from tf2

and no it's not supposed to be a 5 lol

i guess i'll remove the curve

i added it to try to fill the empty space the lighting and the flag left

[orchid sorrel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/337790132126089222/1090869909183008768/image.png

guys can we restart we missed $10

[wintry marlin]

I had to make sure to check upside down, there's a sense of movement here but still not sure what it is

I do think it's cool

tbh I even started to look for shapes in the negative space and I feel like that's a cope

I see it as 57 now

[hybrid cloud]

it just looks really busy to me

[wintry marlin]

that's another way to look at it, at least it sells the racing car logo look

lightning mcqueen style

[radiant merlin]

it is a flag attached to a lightning that serves as a flagpole

[wintry marlin]

mhm, this is probably the most obvious, right.

[lean cove]

wow if it aint the catctus themself

[high current]

Is there any documentation on sending rcon commands to the client? Like how the Bot Detector sends rcon commands to the client to call vote kicks? I checked VDC but it only has documentation for sending rcon to a server as far as I can deduce.

I want to use rcon to send client commands to set up offline test scenarios for my HUD resolution override generator. And the in game scripts to conveniently test such things would defeat the purpose of creating a user-aid program. Fairly basic bot creation and puppet commands, but if copy+paste’ing math into wolframalpha is too complex for someone then console commands for bot control probably is too.

[limpid panther]

add rcon_password and port to launch options and use it normally

also add -net_start iirc

also add the rcon whitelist launch option pointing to loopback, but I forgot the name of the option and im not at home

[paper sluice]

Kany

[left sand]

tf2 update?

[crisp cedar]

why

[summer steeple]

looks like they fixed the bread sapper

[left sand]

updated the localization files

[summer steeple]

source

[crisp cedar]

bread sapper about to grow in price

[summer steeple]

worlds fastest exploit fix

[daring tiger]

https://tenor.com/view/looney-tunes-thats-all-folks-thats-it-gif-14824246

[crisp cedar]

oh more like opposite

snack attack about to drop in price

[limpid panther]

short it

[livid dirge]

snack attack:

[orchid sorrel]

anybody want to help test some mvm missions?

currently need 2 players, any skill-level is welcome

steam://connect/us.potato.tf:27019

testing an advanced difficulty, and an expert difficulty

[lean cove]

in half an hour or so I'd be happy to join

@teal sand wbu

[teal sand]

possibly

[daring tiger]

replay broke his wrist

[drowsy quail]

(super late reply) invite is the exact same. its less common for sure, but people will call sniper pos first, then babyrage while holding down PTT

[crisp cedar]

open

[high current]

Sounds about right lol

[jaunty willow]

O H n O

lmfao

[radiant merlin]

what do you prefer? waving flag or static flag?

[left sand]

wave

[rare creek]

wave

[radiant merlin]

another mvm tour huh

the day potato decides to give a hat instead of a medal, their servers will be full all the week

[radiant merlin]

alright, version 2

omg that line

i hate coreldraw

[potent wolf]

wtf why does it start off dark and get really bright

[paper sluice]

Huh

[radiant merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/guh-mike-mike-ehrmantraut-mike-breaking-bad-mike-better-call-saul-gif-25630010

[daring tiger]

wait wtf replay is right

if you take the image out of discord

at first it's a black background then turns white

[daring tiger]

what are you wanting as the "main" part, the flag or the lightning bolt

because right now the flag is much smaller, making it seem like an accessory

[radiant merlin]

the lightning i guess

idk i know shit about logo design

[daring tiger]

I don't know shit about anything :P

I just go by feel

[smoky notch]

cl_enablenullmovement "1"

[radiant merlin]

https://tf2maps.net/downloads/ctf-blitz-turbine.15392/

this looks ugly af

[radiant merlin]

i found the mvm griefer

[cursive peak]

Stick your mallet up his ass.

[orchid sorrel]

Oh god its basil

[formal dew]

picky eaters at italian restaurants be like

[orchid sorrel]

If basil is in a party with friends hes likely going to do a last wave votekick if he deems you “deserving” of it

[radiant merlin]

if he does he will be banned lol

from the event

[orchid sorrel]

Can moonlight ban for that?

[radiant merlin]

nah he won't do it

[orchid sorrel]

His profile is a very interesting read

The great lengths he goes to justify bullying ppl in a pve mode

[cursive peak]

Someone should find his house and bully him over bullying people in MvM.

Like, fuckin' full on giving him swirlies.

[orchid sorrel]

And wedgies

[formal dew]

replace all instances of 1216 on legal documents to 1261

[orchid sorrel]

[cursive peak]

Swirlies in unflushed toilets.

[orchid sorrel]

[formal dew]

send a ligma package

[orchid sorrel]

Also the derelict mission uses a wavebar copied from potato without permission to mock a mission maker

[spare obsidian]

context?

[orchid sorrel]

wave 5 of the moonlight april fools mission "revengeance" uses a nearly indentical wavebar to the rewired rampage mission "Numerator"

and basically just uses it to mock the creator and mission

they did it last year with one of the Silent Sky missions

one of the waves was a 1:1 recreation of the DD mission "Bionic bits"

both numerator and bionic were made by the same guy so it seems kinda targeted at this point

[summer steeple]

classic tf2 community

[summer steeple]

235 keys, 25 refined

[orchid sorrel]

shame the stat clock will cover the sonichu

[wintry marlin]

This is looking nice actually

[wintry marlin]

This doesn't even look half bad as much as it is cursed

[jaunty willow]

https://youtu.be/Vw6eSmX_YTQ

lets goooo

spy, medic, n sniper still sound like day 1

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[crisp cedar]

ok is the sponsor like real or an april fools joke

i genuinely cant tell

i dont care either way

it would just make me stop thinking about it if i knew

[paper sluice]

The April fools joke is it’s actually happening

I thi

[crisp cedar]

why would you do that

[smoky notch]

say hi to shy guy!

[crisp cedar]

i'm coming after you

[smoky notch]

nope! <3

[crisp cedar]

if you say sorry i'll forgive you

[left sand]

rayne youre the one who needs to give an apology

[crisp cedar]

if you don't you will have to live with fear of interacting with me because any time youd be interacting with me you could be falling victim to a vicious trap

which is easier

you choose

[left sand]

volume warning..

[crisp cedar]

you've made your choice

[potent wolf]

too late

[crisp cedar]

be wary, friend

[potent wolf]

that fish though

[potent wolf]

was worth it

[crisp cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/383927498158899202/1091788037651968170/1673172110599.mp4

[paper sluice]

What even is the context for that vid

[wintry marlin]

method acting a polar express character ig

he's yelling and recording and that's annoying

[craggy ridge]

fsdseffhth

[orchid sorrel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/885920536671166478/1089754464291930112/mold.gif

[summer steeple]

so i watched that new uncle dane video (this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6G9Jewb2RE)

it is a serious video (sort of, he's not actually a pyro main now)

but it was interesting to see just how much i agreed with him on

[left sand]

i like w m1

[summer steeple]

kill

[smoky notch]

i like you

[summer steeple]

it was also interesting to see the perspective of someone who was (essentially) new to the class

[orchid sorrel]

I like phlog i like scorch shot i like explode on ignite i like airblast i like backburner

[summer steeple]

tl;dr he doesn't like your average w+m1, and technically doesn't even like comboing, instead preferring to go for a burst damage loadout of DF and flaregun

[rare creek]

i hate the dragon's fury

[potent wolf]

why?

[summer steeple]

its kind of ridiculous

[rare creek]

the range and dps is absurd i hate fighting against it

playing with it isn't even fun

[summer steeple]

thats subjective

[rare creek]

i don't care what anyone else says; it doesn't take skill and its way too easy and boring to play

[summer steeple]

but i agree that its pretty damn strong

[rare creek]

you just click on people and they die

[potent wolf]

That's literally how the game works, you shoot people and they die

[rare creek]

damn maybe that's why i don't like tf2 anymore

[potent wolf]

ok?

[spare obsidian]

damn bro daz crazy

[rare creek]

there is hardly any movement or positioning or awareness involved

no other class requires less awareness to be effective

[summer steeple]

idk about that

[crisp cedar]

ok i agree with dane on the airblast thing

it shouldnt disable ur gun if ur airblast is successful

[summer steeple]

honestly the DF is a cool idea for a weapon but i also have no clue how i would improve its issues

[crisp cedar]

i think its fine as it is and dane has a good point

it should be a gun that rewards accuracy and punishes inaccuracy

[summer steeple]

like you obviously shouldn't be punished for successfully airblasting, but I worry that if you remove that cooldown even on success it might be way too good

altho

that 5 ammo cost for airblast

is already quite a bit

I kinda wonder what the DF would be like if it was more about cooldown management, and they had the airblast and primary fire on different cooldowns

and maybe successfully hitting someone with fire also lowers the airblast cooldown

[crisp cedar]

its just a 2s cooldown i think that barely matters

[rare creek]

https://youtu.be/0nrPXuGuHMo

[summer steeple]

in this hypothetical I was more considering the DF at its sort of baseline "shoot projectiles and have a cooldown mechanic" rather than any stats

[summer steeple]

i think i remember hearing some unsavory things about this dude

but i don't really read much about youtuber drama

but yeah

rock005 haha funny penis rock

[orchid sorrel]

How do we tell him

[rare creek]

bruh any time i come across literally anyone or anything online there is some controversy surrounding it that i'm unaware of

its a fact of life at this point that every internet user is probably evil

[summer steeple]

true lol

[daring tiger]

Oh shit

I’m the good version of josh now

@potent wolf I’m coming to fight you

[potent wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/cats-fighting-fighting-cats-anniehasleftoop-gif-23317332

[daring tiger]

https://tenor.com/view/cats-catitude-cattitude-cat-attitude-what-gif-22504374

[orchid sorrel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/885921140420263957/1079156508866117692/CRIT_CAN_BATTALIONS_HEAVY.gif

[next nymph]

someone flashed a gun at the guy and he ran to the emergency button and didnt read that you had to hold it so the conductor wouldnt be able to hear what he was saying and everyone else was just confused and thought he was being really annoying

[wintry marlin]

this is beyond parody

[high current]

Anyone have experience with higher than 1000hz polling rate? Does TF2 handle it

[hybrid cloud]

the range isnt even that good

it's like 500 units

rockets do ~80 damage past that

the dps isnt also that crazy, but it has a lot going for it as a weapon that can pierce and doesnt need to reload

[hybrid cloud]

i feel like all flamethrowers should be like this to varying degrees

[summer steeple]

honestly I do agree with the DPS statement that unsubtract had

it melts people super quick

[hybrid cloud]

didnt someone measure the dps of the df and show a chart that basically said it was the same as the flamethrower's, but in bursts

[summer steeple]

its possible

but i feel like its still better because of increased range, and you don't have the possibility of dropping a few frame particles for lower damage, only entire projectiles

like if you miss a projectile thats a lot of damage gone

but its easier to drop just a few flame particles due to momentum and what not

[hybrid cloud]

it's a better dps weapon than the flamethrower for sure

but it's not a high bar to pass

[summer steeple]

like on a standing still person flamethrower and df are probably comparable

but with movement i would say it makes a bigger difference

[hybrid cloud]

flamethrower has much lower room for error which is why the damage is mediocre

[craggy ridge]

No

It isn't

The df is kinda bad bcs shotguns exist so like

[hybrid cloud]

probably not the same now that i look at it but it's comparable

[craggy ridge]

You dont really need to kill your dps

[craggy ridge]

The graphic literally shows how different they are

Df does way more damage

[next nymph]

its been a while but i dont recall any issues

[hybrid cloud]

i should probably learn to read graphs

[hybrid cloud]

i would still pick fury over any non phlog flamethrower

[next nymph]

how to read graphs 101: you want the line to be higher than the other line

[summer steeple]

now i'm confused

[craggy ridge]

by 2 seconds DF is already dealing like 130ish more damage than flamethrower

[summer steeple]

because the red line (max dps) is comparable with the DF

[craggy ridge]

pyro never achieves max dps

[summer steeple]

although i'm not sure what min and max dps is in this case

[craggy ridge]

he only achieves minimum dps practically

because blue moon

[summer steeple]

oh right

[hybrid cloud]

im speaking on paper

in practice flamethrower is really bad at damage

[craggy ridge]

why are you speaking on paper when it does not do max damage against any enemy who is moving

actually i think that even against still enemies

[next nymph]

at around 40 health, even minimum dps flamethrower beats DF

[craggy ridge]

it does like 130 dps for some reason?

[next nymph]

common stock W

[hybrid cloud]

tried to make a point that it's the same numbers but crunched differently. burst damage is always gonna beat stream damage everytime and i thought the blue moon changes went without saying

like on paper they're comparable in terms of dps, but the df is perceived to do tons of damage because it uses burst damage projectiles instead of piddly little flame boxes

and the flamethrower does such awful dps that it's not a high bar to cross anyway

[next nymph]

I'm not sure I agree with burst always beating stream damage. It's generally easier to hit with burst, but also much more significant when you miss with burst damage. And the more granular your damage is, the sooner you'll kill someone, because you're not waiting with them on low health only to be overkilled when you do hit

[hybrid cloud]

it's that overkill that makes burst better imo

the game tend to primarily revolve around it, not to say that stream damage doesnt have a place in tf2

i just think regarding the flamethrower it's executed very badly

[next nymph]

I mean "overkill" as in "useless damage that you don't need because you already killed them with a fraction of your total damage"

it doesn't matter if I'm doing 1000000 with a backstab or 4 with a long-range pistol shot when my target only has 1 health

[hybrid cloud]

either way the flamethrower sucks

df puts pyro into power class territory which he was supposed to teeter on from the beginning until they decided to switch him to support for some reason

[next nymph]

its because short range attacks with no mobility options is not very good for a power class

[hybrid cloud]

i wonder why they made pyro such a short range attacker and then give him 0 gap closing tools