Team Fortress 2 Megathread - winter is the most chill time of year

[crisp cedar]

i dont get why people known for valve content

like

why is he streaming half life

of all games

[daring tiger]

Fantastic line for it to end on “apologizing is admission of guilt”

Also like what? Yeah, he does need to apologize. Why does the chatter think he doesn’t

[hoary geyser]

it's ratlobber, from the hit game s&box!

[radiant merlin]

updoot

[radiant merlin]

rumford still not in the map pool

[jagged pawn]

sigh

bad game

[radiant merlin]

and they fucking reverted it

[jagged pawn]

?

[radiant merlin]

the equip regions of some cosmetics (the pootis head) doesn't work because it's mispelled (it should say "equip_regions" instead of "equip_region")

it already happened twice

clearly valve don't have the balls to make the change permanent

[rare creek]

I hate u

@left sandu r in tf2 update

[jagged pawn]

surely she knows already lol

[rare creek]

mastercoms jumpscare

[potent wolf]

master of communications

[radiant merlin]

no more trollin

[slender nexus]

noo more Fortnite
noo more cards
noo more 19 dollar cards
noo more trolls
YOU'VE BEEN BLOCKED

[spare obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/transitions-kinemaster-black-guy-suit-tiktok-gif-25279479

[potent wolf]

@summer steeple sorry to bother you, but the URLLabel bug was that it didn't check that you provided it a URL, and would just run the shell command with that string, correct?

[summer steeple]

yeah

basically (from what i understand) you can just call a URL of any kind from smth like file explorer and it will open it in the right program

and because they didn't check if it was actually a web URL you could just run programs with it

[potent wolf]

alr, thanks

[rare creek]

yeqah the fact they fixed is is LITERALLY 1984

[radiant merlin]

does it fix the machina showing two tracers when the sniper takes damage? @left sand

[rare creek]

how would i know

[spare obsidian]

wow dude image being mad because an actual security exploit is fixed...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1017079478847017000.webp?quality=lossless

[rare creek]

I was USING it to do TROLLING it would be NICE if it WASN'T FIXERD

[potent wolf]

the trolling was too much for valve

they couldn't handle the

[summer steeple]

shit dude i just realized i should do benchs with the new update

[left sand]

bench press?

[jagged pawn]

yes

[summer steeple]

bench press mark

[cursive peak]

1 press for every bit in size.

[jagged pawn]

who tf is mark

[cursive peak]

Anthony Rapp's character in Rent.

[summer steeple]

the problem is that i'd have to download the old version of the game and i don't want to do that

[cursive peak]

No old benchmarks laying around?

[summer steeple]

nope

[next nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/curls-gym-work-out-stewie-griffin-weights-gif-14965300

[summer steeple]

looks like the last one I did (that i uploaded to the form) was comfig 9.6.3

uhhh how do i launch tf2 without steam updating it

ok it went to go update again, I reverted the files again and now its like "you're good lmao"

old
4812 frames 30.796 seconds 156.25 fps ( 6.40 ms/f) 27.090 fps variability
4812 frames 30.897 seconds 155.74 fps ( 6.42 ms/f) 27.984 fps variability
4812 frames 30.624 seconds 157.13 fps ( 6.36 ms/f) 27.279 fps variability

new
4812 frames 30.241 seconds 159.12 fps ( 6.28 ms/f) 27.848 fps variability
4812 frames 30.300 seconds 158.81 fps ( 6.30 ms/f) 27.694 fps variability
4812 frames 30.354 seconds 158.53 fps ( 6.31 ms/f) 28.050 fps variability

thats not half bad

more consistent, a few frames

[formal dew]

Impressive, very nice

[summer steeple]

bruh on the last one

whatever

[worn hedge]

hip hip hooray, some mastercoms fixes are ingame

they might as well put team comstress in the game

[mystic turtle]

Which ones

[worn hedge]

some

[mystic turtle]

No schtick
She must feel so proud rn

Congratulations for having your fixes implemented

[radiant merlin]

hey mcoms what do you expect the most from tc2 to be added?

[formal dew]

Is tf2's fps_max being garbo why i'm getting 142 fps per the steam counter despite the cvar being set to 144

[summer steeple]

use RTSS instead

[hearty kelp]

what about nvidia frame limiter

[craggy ridge]

what bug in specific do yall wanna see fixed the most?

i'll go first

pyro's flamethrower ramp up

I know it's a tad unrealistic that they are ever going to fix it

but if they don't I hope they atleast fix the airblast self damage bug

[summer steeple]

probably also fine, basically just use anything that isn't the ingame one because its inaccurate

[jagged pawn]

kinda selfish but my pc is good so I'd rather them focus on visuals rather than optimization. optimization is of course important! but stuff like tf2tip or like the dragon's fury particle fix look so much better than vanilla

wait how did I forget about the short circuit

I can't use this in casual and I hate that https://gamebanana.com/mods/11900

[formal dew]

I agree that flamethrower damage should be at the top of triage

[craggy ridge]

Ktbm had a fully working version of the flamethrower ramp up system before the project got ended

[wintry marlin]

so based
so freakin zased

https://tenor.com/view/based-kneel-dark-souls-gif-24182729

[next nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/based-based-on-what-based-morpheus-gif-21855859

[hybrid cloud]

oh what the fuck the project ended?

[craggy ridge]

Yuh uh

[limpid panther]

do you guys know of a console command I can use to infer that I'm currently playing a demo?

thought of demo_debug works but it's too noisy, I would rather use something that didn't require spamming the console

[craggy ridge]

Tf2 update

[rare creek]

so based

[formal dew]

based on what

[daring tiger]

The source engine

[formal dew]

Never heard of it

[potent wolf]

It's a lie, it doesn't exist

[formal dew]

Source?

[daring tiger]

Engine

[rare creek]

@summer steeple are you the guy who told the valve about the exploit i forgor

can you tell them to raise the max fov to 130 I think that would be cool

[slender nexus]

raise the max fov to 999

[summer steeple]

i did but i got an email back saying that they had already gotten emails about it from a few people lol

[rare creek]

why haven't they added it then?

[potent wolf]

They did fix the urllabel thing though

[rare creek]

I'd like to kno their reasoning why it hasn't been put in the game

[summer steeple]

why what hasn’t been added

[rare creek]

high fov

[summer steeple]

i didnt email them about that

i was talking about urllabel

[rare creek]

o

sorry i have brain defficiency

i will cry SO MUCH if the next updated doesnt raise fov....

[potent wolf]

360 fov

[cursive peak]

It's highly unlikely we'll get an FOV increase.

[rare creek]

fuk u

[potent wolf]

I don't really see why an fov increase is a needed (or even good) thing

[rare creek]

[next nymph]

there is already tf2 vr

[formal dew]

Number go up

[cursive peak]

I'd love to run 120fov in everything, but if it causes issues, there's not much that can be done.

[rare creek]

theres server plugins that let you change fov, iirc issues only start at around 150

and garry's mod lets you put it at 100 in the settings menu

[small siren]

*and garry's mod lets

you put it at 100 in

the settings menu*

- <marquee>👑 Lucy</marquee>

[serene yarrow]

Was the upgrade station bug fixed in the recent update

The thing where a bot locks you out of upgrades

[crisp cedar]

yes

[potent wolf]

undocumented change? or am i blind

[spare obsidian]

does the game now encrypts the match group ids now?

because

that's what bots used to get into other people's groups

in mvm

[crisp cedar]

blind

[potent wolf]

screenshot?

[potent wolf]

😔

[radiant merlin]

what was that page that makes invite links?

https://mvmlobby.tf/tools.php this one

[spare obsidian]

yeah that one

[unborn pecan]

@left sand Why are sprays disabled by default in your config for all presets? Shouldn't that be a choice that should be made by the user?

[potent wolf]

the comfig website allows you to enable them

[unborn pecan]

But who actually expects people to go through the options?

TF2 players aren't know for being meticulously nor smart

[crisp cedar]

why would they be on

the average tf2 joe plays on casual, where sprays are disabled

so its not like itd matter

[rare creek]

bc sprays make the game 200% better

there should be a sound sprays option

[unborn pecan]

Not sound, but image is cool

[cursive peak]

Sound sprays are too obscure. Basically no one has them enabled.

[rare creek]

option

image is already an option

[cursive peak]

And it is just 1 line needed in your autoexec to enable them.

[serene yarrow]

I dont see it either unless its the url thing

[potent wolf]

It isn't

@summer steeple

[serene yarrow]

[unborn pecan]

Most tf2 players don't know how to do that

😭

[potent wolf]

do you?

[unborn pecan]

😭 no

brody is not that schwag

[cursive peak]

I'm just saying that it's such a trivial thing that it not being a module is hardly a hardship.

cl_customsounds 1

That's it.

And cl_soundfile defines the sound spray.

[spare obsidian]

yeah that's an obscure feature that the game has lol

[cursive peak]

I had mine bound to go off with my "Dispenser down. Transform and roll out." bind. It was the transformation sound from the original Transformers series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYOWdUiflTg

[mystic turtle]

wait a minute
if you made your custom soundspray the reversed (reversed frequency) version of a cloak sound and then made it play whenever you pressed m2, could you theoretically cloak in near-total silence?
not that it would be practical, the near-silent cloak would be only usable a few times due to the cooldown

[next nymph]

how well can you sync them?

[mystic turtle]

yeah, that would be the issue

especially on high latency

[next nymph]

if it needs to send the sound file over then that wouldnt be an option methinks

[cursive peak]

The other players need to have them enabled, too.

[mystic turtle]

yeah

[cursive peak]

And almost no one has them enabled.

[mystic turtle]

just an interesting idea I had

[cursive peak]

And the cooldown is synced with the regular spray cooldown timer.

[next nymph]

abuse our influence in the mastercomfig community to sneak the change in

[mystic turtle]

and besides, a "true fake Uber voiceline" with the actual fully charged Medigun sound would have a lot more mileage and be somewhat hilarious

it would be so bad that they might even ban it from comp even though most people have it off

[cursive peak]

Pretty sure they're disabled anyway in competitive.

[next nymph]

i just constantly press the fake uber voiceline button so they cant tell which ones real

[mystic turtle]

oh well
it was a fun idea anyway

[next nymph]

strategy for comp: get a clip of the enemy team's maincaller saying "push now" and use that as your sound spray

[formal dew]

Should fire be team colored

[next nymph]

teams should be fire colored

[formal dew]

pyro moment

[mystic turtle]

it would look a bit weird in TF2's style
and since pyros always can be seen at close range, it's pointless

[formal dew]

Everything should be team colored

Brown and gray begone

[next nymph]

except scout's brown pants

[formal dew]

Scout needs to buy a suit from brooks brothers

[mystic turtle]

it probably would have the same success rate as a well-deployed dead ringer cloak
I mean, you can't see the little speech bubble in the corner

[spare obsidian]

unless you get a kill the cooldown gets reduced?

[cursive peak]

I don't think it's tied to kills at all.

I think it's 10 seconds by default?

decalfrequency is the cvar that controls it.

[mystic turtle]

I've tested this on tr_walkway

Yes, spray cooldown is reset when you get a kill

[rare creek]

bruh my tf2 just closed without a crash message or any signs of what caused the crash in event viewer when I was playing on a shady server

[potent wolf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDiySife19E

this video is never not funny to me

[summer steeple]

i swear to god source engine

so one of the payload rail props

is 256hu

except its actually a little under 255

so i say to myself "let me just extend it in blender"

so i do so

and because of floating point precision i go a little under 256

because i figured that a modelling software like blender will have a higher precision than source

AND YET SOMEHOW ITS LONGER THAN 256????

[radiant merlin]

damn

[summer steeple]

anyway i'm just about to open up the smd files in a hex editor to try and fix this myself

bruh smd

stores vertex data in plaintext???

like????

that was actually quicker than doing it in blender LMAO

literally just find and replace 127.452888 with 128.000000

considering the weird jump from below 256 to over it, I assume this is just an issue with the exporter i use

which in most cases wouldn't matter but because i need this to be precise it does matter

[left sand]

https://fxtwitter.com/FACEITTF2/status/1623803438441136134

[radiant merlin]

engi needs another walter white hat

maybe his hair ||after he flees to new hampshire||

[potent wolf]

chaos

[cedar prairie]

ive seen that video, its so odd

[potent wolf]

Yeah, it makes no sense

[cedar prairie]

he actually gets the reasoning behind facestabs correct but then proceeds to ruin it with that awful balance proposal anyways

whenever i hear the prospect of reducing the stab radius i die inside, they already tried doing that in '09 and it didnt work

it doesnt actually get rid of "facestabs" it just nerfs normal backstabs and nothing else

[hybrid cloud]

reminds me of when pyro was a windmill group dps monster and instead of making the flamethrower narrower or like harder to aim they just added a ramp up mechanic that destroyed whatever combat ability the flamethrower has had in years

while not addressing the windmill shit

[cedar prairie]

pyro and spy are tf2s schrodinger's class balance discussions

[small siren]

*pyro and spy are

tf2s schrodinger's class

balance discussions*

- LucasIsNotAToy

[hybrid cloud]

i think they did their best with backstabs

melee is already kinda funky and having instakills based on targeting someone's back probably makes it worse

[cedar prairie]

yeah i think this is the best well get for the time the game cane out

unless theres ways to improve it that i dont know, and obviously the default network settings should be better

but i dont feel like i get trickstabbed pretty much ever, you can definitely avoid them consistently, nor do i feel like im getting an undeserved kill when i land one tbh

class has an instant kill melee mechanic, should be common sense to not try your luck with melee range even if the connection is clean

[potent wolf]

Whenever i get trickstabbed, it was actually a facestab

[hybrid cloud]

i think someone said one day that tf2 gamers tend to be upset at close range sniper kills because they're like, entitled to a sniper pick

maybe it's the same with spy and all that anger is focused on trickstabs

[cedar prairie]

it definitely seems like some sort of twisted entitlement to a kill you havent got yet

like "im a pyro and hes a spy, i deserve the kill just cause"

[formal dew]

Be efficient, be polite, and be entitled to kill everyone you meet

[cedar prairie]

most brutal facestabs are back pedal ones anyways, no matter how small the stab radius is, those r gonna happen still

[cursive peak]

I think a lot of people are playing on WiFi, which is just going to make networking even worse.

[hybrid cloud]

i guess spy is easy enough to kill that being trickstabbed can be frustrating at least

[potent wolf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3N8PjSuVZg

[unborn pecan]

I love Waltuh

[formal dew]

Walter white's middle name is Hartwell

Hartwell is also a town in Georgia

Both Georgia and Texas are southern

And engineer got a breaking bad hat

Coincidence

I think not

[summer steeple]

also both take place in new mexico

[cursive peak]

Isn't there a real Walter White in Georgia?

[slender nexus]

Anyone remember when there used to be someone named Gay Bowser?

[cursive peak]

I'm pretty sure there's always a gay Bowser somewhere.

[cedar prairie]

i wish that spy could get a heisenberg hat of his own

id rock that with the enforcer

[rare creek]

it feels like all tf2 servers have sprays disabled nowadays

[craggy ridge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1001066550335385671/1081539882805117049/MedalTVTeamFortress220230304082850.mp4

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1001066550335385671/1081539885149724682/MedalTVTeamFortress220230304082705.mp4

[mystic turtle]

well, to be fair, nobody wants to see, yknow...

[wintry marlin]

me

blue lobster

me

[craggy ridge]

actually this is too nsfw i think

[wintry marlin]

yea

[craggy ridge]

instant regret post

[wintry marlin]

👍

[grim parcel]

doesn't this already exist with that one funny cvar

[rare creek]

that's for the admins to deal with

[hybrid cloud]

enlightened tf2 visual fix pack user

[craggy ridge]

https://fxtwitter.com/MediEx2012/status/1631616865830313984

[kind falcon]

cool!

[craggy ridge]

nvm

sorry for spreading misinformation

[hybrid cloud]

zesty wants something to be angry at

i guess i can agree with him that the workshop has been nosediving in terms of quality at times but this is a dumb stretch

[grim parcel]

yeah pride flags?

in my game??

the workshop would've never done this in 2012

[wintry marlin]

https://youtu.be/ICDDKdgA2aI

vore is based

not cringe at all

[spare obsidian]

https://youtu.be/CRtzgCewd3c @summer steeple @potent wolf guess what

[potent wolf]

yep

seems like this one is a sv_pure mistake (at least i think it is)

[small siren]

*seems like this one is

a sv_pure mistake (at

least i think it is)*

- replaycoding

[wild grove]

this takes so long for it to actually have enough to max everything that you could be kicked for idling while attempting.

it'd prolly work better with a team of friends that are also doing the same thing.

[unborn pecan]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1066769260946395216/1078033356593303632/attachment-4.gif

[wild grove]

Workshop has always been like this, nothing new. Just make sure to steer new creators in the right direction and leave the ones that are unwilling to learn.

Because most bad submissions are newbies who don't understand the texture styling of the game and color theory.

I wouldn't blame em, there's no good resource on how to accurately mimic VALVe's texturing style for Team Fortress 2 (the only resource on how to do so is from 2008-9)

[summer steeple]

I mostly blame the events

hopefully having a themeless event will help

[grim parcel]

someone needs to make an all class t shirt of the mercs have an orgy

[small siren]

*someone needs to make

an all class t shirt of the

mercs have an orgy*

- brodchoo

[summer steeple]

that'll get added during the sex update

[next nymph]

i think they've waited long enough to add the madcap

[potent wolf]

be the change you want to see in the world

[summer steeple]

i am having a mental breakdown

fucking

the payload cart tracks

are so bad

they are literally impossible to line up

they aren't the length they claim they are, the angles they claim they are, and even if they are it just doesn't line up because of how hammer works

the ONLY ones that work ok are straight lines, 90 degree angles, and S-curves

22.5 degree, 45 degree, NONE OF THEM WORK

no fucking wonder most payload maps are just like straight lines

I'm not sure if its even possible to make angled track props which would work

[summer steeple]

i give up trying to fuck with these tracks

perhaps one day h++ will get a tileset system similar to source 2

but until then payload tracks will suck ass

[next nymph]

make a brush-based track

[summer steeple]

i was going to say "i'd rather die" but honestly like

because props are oriented via the origin of the prop

but brushes are via the corners

that legitimately might be better for curves like this

[radiant merlin]

use ow2 tracks

[summer steeple]

i'd rather die

[radiant merlin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnZorHI_Y28

[rare creek]

I hate friendlies

i just want to play the fucking game

[craggy ridge]

@kind falcon can i change tge files from the hack that you gave me

To make it so players are neon red and blue

Instead of green and pink?

[kind falcon]

yes there are other colors

although youll have to go through the files to change the color

in vmts

🙂

[craggy ridge]

there's no blue option

can I just make a blue.vtf

using paint.net

[kind falcon]

i dont know . i downloaded it from [name] and the original post is from 2014

probably

vtf edit

[rare creek]

make blue.vmt instead

use white as base

color it blue

[kind falcon]

true

[craggy ridge]

I made it

I just changed the colors from green.vtf and purple.vtf

Using paint.net

[kind falcon]

that works

though there are missing textures on heavies body’ and someone’s head

😃

[craggy ridge]

texture quality setting may be too high

this is what my game looks like btw https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1001066550335385671/1081921200017637486/MedalTVTeamFortress220230305091740.mp4

[wintry marlin]

Congratulations! Your tf2 is blue

[kind falcon]

🤷‍♀️

[kind falcon]

and red

[wintry marlin]

Da ba dee

[craggy ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/what-is-wrong-with-you-why-are-you-blue-what-is-wrong-with-you-why-are-you-blue-brba-breaking-bad-gif-26777019

[kind falcon]

your mom

[wintry marlin]

Da ba DIE

[kind falcon]

😐

do you want your mother to

[wintry marlin]

Literally the second verse

[kind falcon]

do you

[kind falcon]

why no lodtweak

also what’s up with your fps puddin why so low

[wintry marlin]

Mom doesn't narrow it down enough

[craggy ridge]

no idea

[craggy ridge]

yesterday it was 200-500

[wintry marlin]

New tf2 perf fixes

[wintry marlin]

They make your fps 1

[craggy ridge]

althought my monitor hz is 60 playing with bellow 200 is very unsettling

[wintry marlin]

My fps doesn't go above 120 afaik but it's enough

If I were to take csgo seriously again I'd beg for 144 hz and 300 fps at minimum

However, I would also want a 1440p display to start with

Because I play at high enough fov where I'm shooting pixels

[kind falcon]

fry about it

https://tenor.com/view/fry-about-it-cry-about-it-cry-about-it-meme-cry-about-it-meme-gif-fry-gif-25394529

[wintry marlin]

Pros compensate by having their eyes glued to the monitor

While I am literally 1m away from my monitor as of now.
This made me learn that I would rather play with 60 fov rather 120 fov

[kind falcon]

107

[wintry marlin]

75 is as far as tf2 min fov goes

[craggy ridge]

posting my clips in tf2 discord servers is so good

the reactions always make my day

[kind falcon]

now skin them

alive

[kind falcon]

you should start playing at 640x480

[rare creek]

bro's really playing quake 3 cpma in the source engine

[hoary geyser]

it's so low quality it probably counts as a cheat

[kind falcon]

it was intended to be used as a cheat, yes

the player models

[craggy ridge]

not really

in tournaments you can just disable it with sv_pure

it's as much of a cheat as the green overheal particle mod

[kind falcon]

if you used this mod pre 2015 it would show models through walls!

it still does but only in loadouts

[craggy ridge]

i mean you can not really say it's a cheat

when it's clearly broken

and can be turned off with a console command

[kind falcon]

✅

[craggy ridge]

this is so funny

[hybrid cloud]

tf2 fans feeling offended on valve's behalf because players have to resort to configs due to valve's revolving door development style is certainly a thing

[craggy ridge]

I mean the neon playermodels and flat textures save practically no fps

I just like how the look

[hybrid cloud]

fair enuff

[hoary geyser]

reminds me of people complaining about the AIs that converted videos to 60fps

[wintry marlin]

they both have a point

one is desecration of artistic intent, the other is optimizing the art out of a game

AI smoothed animation is ugly

the game is faster and more readable but ugly

however, don't let art snobs tell you that you can't appreciate gameplay as a form of art.

which tf2 totally achieves.

putting emphasis on gameplay above anything else is a noble goal at this point.

[hoary geyser]

i am going to play tf2 on a 1994 monitor

[wintry marlin]

I would rather you have play a comically stripped version of tf2 that is optimized, glitch free and feature rich.

that is what is emphasizing gameplay.

I want neotokyo to become popular again.

But the game has been bogged down by its faults to the point of having playerbase the size of 0.

it can only be resurrected with a remake.

[slender nexus]

Brb off to my grandparents house to get their crt computer monitor

[limpid panther]

what's the cvar that disables hud completely?

[potent wolf]

cl_drawhud?

[limpid panther]

lol thanks

Why could I not find that

[radiant merlin]

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/4826

[formal dew]

what the morb

[potent wolf]

does it also happen with stickies?

[radiant merlin]

only with the wrap assassin

stickies don't stick to func_brush

however, in csgo bump mines do

[potent wolf]

what about the other brushes

[radiant merlin]

i think there are gameplay implications that should be considered before fixing the bug for func_door and func_tracktrain

also wtf

[potent wolf]

WTF

[formal dew]

vgui moment

[craggy ridge]

lol i got banned from cheating

in uncletopia

[daring tiger]

Cheater

[summer steeple]

because you posted that video?

[craggy ridge]

because neon playermodels are considered cheating in there

[summer steeple]

bruh can you even use that on UT servers?

[craggy ridge]

yes

its a mod

[summer steeple]

i swear i always hear bad things about their moderators on that discord

[daring tiger]

But how did they find out

[summer steeple]

mambo got banned for "talking about femboys in the wrong channel"

[craggy ridge]

I posted a clip

[daring tiger]

Heh

[craggy ridge]

wasn't even me playing on their servers

[hoary geyser]

pudding you are no longer permitted on the official mastercomfig tf2 server

[craggy ridge]

Dw i already got banned from there once

[left sand]

i think you were right to get banned

its a really cringe mod

[daring tiger]

banned for being cringe

[craggy ridge]

adanhuadhaudwhbuabdaD

[wild grove]

Superhot sequel looking good.

[radiant merlin]

i hate this unusual

why is it always light blue?

[next nymph]

da ba dee da ba die

[rare creek]

can i downloadt his vscript

[radiant merlin]

What vscript?

It's the bump mine from danger zone

[rare creek]

yeah where do i download the tf2 vscript for that

[radiant merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/guh-mike-mike-ehrmantraut-mike-breaking-bad-mike-better-call-saul-gif-25630010

[wintry marlin]

Need an SFM short with demo going guns blazing

[orchid sorrel]

https://steamcommunity.com/id/weidalingxiumaozhuxi/

has anybody seen this guy in game before

I was matched into a dustbowl game with him twice and he had EXTREMELY sussy snap-aim as heavy (like to the point he was instantly snapping to people behind him) and then he went sniper

I recorded a demo of the entire thing only to realize you cant change POVs in normal demo recordings

and he has tour completion medals from both potato.tf and moonlight.tf which is a bit concerning

[wintry marlin]

Depends idf he's american, european, african, asian, oceanic or australian.

I only play on european casual servers.

Sussy vent

[summer steeple]

hm where did my payload cart go?

[wintry marlin]

it fell off

[summer steeple]

into the abyss

[wintry marlin]

ragdolled under the map lmao

[summer steeple]

IT ACTUALLY DID WTF

bro the movement of it literally looks like i gave it a push in like blender and then did a physics sim

[jaunty willow]

LMAO

Bai Bai cart

[radiant merlin]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2943084597

perfect loadout for me

[potent wolf]

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/4790#issuecomment-1456921255

[daring tiger]

@potent wolf

[potent wolf]

@unborn pecan you need to this

[summer steeple]

don't worry i did it

[daring tiger]

Appreciated

[potent wolf]

thanks fiend

[formal dew]

what the morb

[potent wolf]

#patch-pack message

[formal dew]

Welp

[summer steeple]

feeling masochistic

[summer steeple]

took me 45 minutes to get in, i think this sums up how it went

[formal dew]

hopefully there wasn't any swastika objectors

[summer steeple]

dude on the other team got mad that his team wasn't protecting him as medic and started throwing

[potent wolf]

How were the bots?

[summer steeple]

as soon as he got AFK kicked everyone started leaving

the bots were actually like harder to fight

because without a team of non-bots it becomes like zombie mode

so you get swarmed by like 5 bots with inhuman aim

also valve didn't even disable bots taunting after kill in comp

which is like

hilarious

[formal dew]

valve moment

[kind falcon]

good

what silly rule is there that can get me banned apart from those mentioned above

[craggy ridge]

Once i got banned from jokingly saying "it had to be a white person"

[kind falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-busting-it-down-gif-27652110

me omw

@craggy ridge did you know that youre my favorite mastercomfig member

[craggy ridge]

No

[kind falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-hip-hop-swag-drizzy-kiss-gif-3992449

[craggy ridge]

You are my favorite discord member too

[kind falcon]

good. now we

[wild grove]

add some cheese to that!

[craggy ridge]

Yeah even tho i am pale white which is kind of funny

[next nymph]

Can anyone check something real quick for me? Does the sound demoman.painsevere05 or 06 or 07 exist ingame?

and medic.go05?

[summer steeple]

medic_go05 does exist but the demomen ones don't

los los?

[potent wolf]

los los!

[summer steeple]

isn't that spanish?

[potent wolf]

technically yes, but it's german

[summer steeple]

hm yeah apparently it is used in german

[potent wolf]

It's literally just "Go Go!"

[summer steeple]

no wonder there's a bot called "Los los los!"

[cursive peak]

Is this loss?

[next nymph]

is my game_sounds_vo.txt just really out of date?

"Medic.Go04"
{
    "channel"        "CHAN_VOICE"
    "volume"        "0.820"
    "pitch"            "PITCH_NORM"

    "soundlevel"    "SNDLVL_95dB"

    "wave"            "vo/medic_Go04.mp3"
}

"Medic.GoodJob01"
{
    "channel"        "CHAN_VOICE"
    "volume"        "0.820"
    "pitch"            "PITCH_NORM"

    "soundlevel"    "SNDLVL_95dB"

    "wave"            "vo/medic_GoodJob01.mp3"
}

I can't seem to find it actually get defined anywhere

[summer steeple]

I don't think its defined since i've never heard it ingame

but the file exists

[next nymph]

figures

thanks for the other pair of eyes

[kind falcon]

ill repost this wherever

[mystic turtle]

pay attention, I think Medic says this when doing the ambulance taunt

[summer steeple]

oh well that just means the taunt author repurposed it

[mystic turtle]

but yeah, it probably wasn't used for its original purpose

[wintry marlin]

I know how los los los sounds like

[mystic turtle]

anyways, I just steamrolled a lotta bots in TF2
vaccinator forever

[wintry marlin]

To me it's iconic

[mystic turtle]

Y'know what?
what if they make a Botkiller Vaccinator

I mean, vacc is good in mvm, and it literally can steamroll real bots

[orchid sorrel]

||All mediguns are good in mvm||

[kind falcon]

impossible

[orchid sorrel]

Honestly i would really like if they replaced botkiller drops with festivizer type attachments

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480079567458140171/1080973286629982360/image.png

If only

[mystic turtle]

how do I get better at scout

I'm tired of Pyro's lousy damage output

[jaunty willow]

strafe aim

if you strafe aim you will most likely hit your stuff more often vs just aiming and constantly adjusting your aim to hit things

or just get a graphic tablet with mouse emulation and use that to aim in tf2

[mystic turtle]

i'll try that

[jaunty willow]

should in theory work too

plus mouse is a bad type of pheripheral

[mystic turtle]

and, how do I like, not die

bc my aim isn't as bad as how much I die

[jaunty willow]

well uhm... its hard to say but just dodge

[craggy ridge]

Damage output?

[jaunty willow]

thats the thing with strafe aiming

[mystic turtle]

like, every time I play as pyro I deal so little damage

[small siren]

*like, every time

I play as pyro I deal

so little damage*

- Skeptical Engie Main

[mystic turtle]

and, I lost a round bc I kept dying, and now TF2 had to crash

seems like God wants to give me a 3rd finger before I go to bed

I guess I can only play scout in 2fort

like, I guess I can contribute a lot of my deaths in TF2 to "oh? you're chasing down the guy who's already losing? Here, now he gets 3 teammates to save his sorry ass, because fuck you!"

and scout's poor hp pool only makes that worse

[jaunty willow]

scout has mobility

he is fast and deals burst damage

use your enviroment to your advantage

try to retreat into corners to cut sightlines with enemies that you can't deal with

[kind falcon]

scorch + phlog

https://tenor.com/view/ryan-gosling-blade-runner-scrolling-gif-23683039

[jaunty willow]

i unironically bought a tablet to play shooters with it

appearently 266Hz or 266 RPS was the max i could find

[kind falcon]

i never noticed the difference

i play at a 12 year old monitor which overclocks to 75hz maybe thats why

[jaunty willow]

if you jump from 250hz to 1000hz you will see the difference

[kind falcon]

i didnt

[jaunty willow]

hm fair enough

every human is different

[kind falcon]

should get a crt instead

[jaunty willow]

some can tell and see and some can't

well unironically, a CRT has faster reaction vs LCD

[kind falcon]

ik

the overclock is even better

[jaunty willow]

but the power bills

yikes

[kind falcon]

what do you pay for kwh

[jaunty willow]

germany pays around 36-47 cents per kwh

so around that

[kind falcon]

[jaunty willow]

and if i recall correctly a CRT uses like 160-260 watts

i could be wrong tho

LCD's use 20-100 watt

most LCD's these days use 24-ish

if gaming is concerned

[kind falcon]

literally 10 times what we pay round here

love my country ..

[jaunty willow]

yikes

[next nymph]

mouse is bad, its just that everything else is worse

[jaunty willow]

yes

but, in theory a graphic tablet used as a mouse can be beneficial

And i will waste my money to test that theory

[next nymph]

are you talking osu-style?

[jaunty willow]

yes

i will not however use the tablet for osu

[next nymph]

the reason it works well for osu is that its all linear and every point is equidistant in terms of tablet movement. It doesnt matter if you move an inch near the center of the screen or near the edge, it'll result in the same number of pixels moved. Likewise, if you move two inches instead of 1 inch, it'll be exactly twice the number of pixels moved

That doesn't hold true in 3d, because now things are based on angular differences rather than pixel differences -- you're looking at a rectangular cutout of a sphere rather than a flat rectangle, and movements near the center will result in different movements near the edge of the screen, or movements that are twice as big won't result in exactly twice as many pixels moved. The entire concept of "how much pixels you move" doesn't even really work anymore, because it changes depending on where you look on your monitor.

This is assuming that you run the tablet in mouse mode. If you keep it in tablet mode then the game doesn't know what to do with it and will just spin everywhere (because tablet mode works by saying "now the mouse is pointing at this pixel coordinate" while the game uses the difference in the current pixel coordinate from the center to tell how much your mouse moved. It's kinda like a controller joystick, just impossibly fast unless you make your sens extremely slow).

[jaunty willow]

yes i have actually had that happen to me lmao

even tho i used mouse mode

and im still gonna try it, as i got motivated by that one guy using a drawing tablet for csgo, and by the looks of it, it may be beneficial

but hard

(ofc with mouse emulation haha)

[next nymph]

that said I do think there's some stuff that could be done to make it better -- like maybe make a hybrid mode where it acts like a tablet for the first mouse event in a while (for picking up the pen) and then use mouse mode afterwards so it doesnt spin out ingame -- but afaik that hasnt been done before

yeah my limited experience is that mouse mode is fine, but not spectacular. Like the pen has the benefit of only being like <20g or something so if you like ultralight mice then you have that, but i think the main benefit of tablets are tablet mode and thats ultimately only feasible for 2d games

[jaunty willow]

yee

aside from being lighter, which doesn't really impact me, is that the pen is a pen

a mouse is "bulky" if you get what i mean

not weightwise

and well for the hybrid mode, i do would find that intresting

but you know how it goes

most manufacturers aint gonna spend their 5€ to tell that dev to implement something only a handfull ppl would use

may*

and i did try to play with steam controller and the gyro mode for aiming

it was VERY intresting

[next nymph]

there are those custom tablet drivers that might be able to add it

[small siren]

*there are those custom

tablet drivers that might be

able to add it*

- JarateKing

[jaunty willow]

hmm

well i will see how it goes tomorrow when it comes

[orchid sorrel]

update: got a demo/replay of him

https://streamable.com/m74ss0

playback is kinda buggy from the conversion in demo to replay

[orchid sorrel]

https://streamable.com/6lx1cg

[summer steeple]

big shoe

[orchid sorrel]

https://streamable.com/9i3aov

my first attempt at an MVM blimp

still need to fine tune the pathing and collision

[wild grove]

digital directive ptsd flashbacks.

[orchid sorrel]

imo the big problem with DD blimps were that they were always too far from the action

so the blimp was already at the hatch before anybody even knew what was doing on

[summer steeple]

how exactly are you doing this, cause i've been trying to make a big bot for a different project via vscript and the collision just sucks ass for it

[orchid sorrel]

I use rafmod/sigmod for the blimp itself and pathing, and then point templates for the general collision

autoblimpcollision
{
    logic_relay
    {
        "onspawn" "scalecounter,setvalue,1.3,0,-1"
        "onspawn" "!parent,$getkey$skin,blimp|skin|0,0,-1"
        "onspawn" "!parent,addoutput,onuser4 @c@!self:fireuser1::0:-1,0.01,-1"
        "onspawn" "!parent,$getprop$m_flModelScale,scalecounter|multiply|1,0.01,-1"
        "onspawn" "!parent,$getprop$m_flModelScale,blimp|$setprop$m_flModelScale|1,0.01,-1"
        "onspawn" "scalecounter,getvalue,,0.02,-1"
    }
    math_counter
    {
        "targetname" "scalecounter"
        "ongetvalue" "!parent,$setprop$m_flModelScale,,0,-1"
    }
    prop_dynamic
    {
        "targetname" "blimp"
        "model" "models/bots/boss_bot/boss_blimp.mdl"
        "defaultanim" "movement"
        "onuser1" "!self,setanimation,deploy,0,-1"
        "onuser1" "!self,setplaybackrate,0,8,-1"
    }
}```

[summer steeple]

hm interesting, i've been trying to do stuff without requiring stuff to be added to the map if possible, for general use which is why i was asking about collision

its a shame that rotating objects just suck complete and utter ass in source

[orchid sorrel]

yeah rafmod lets you add external point templates

a lot of the custom stuff potato does is built off point templates and such

[summer steeple]

ugh i really don't want to add any prerequisites for a server outside of vscript

since i'm not working on mvm

altho i guess it is mvm adjacent

[orchid sorrel]

iirc raf made a version of his mod that doesnt require mvm

[summer steeple]

just in general i mean

[orchid sorrel]

o

[summer steeple]

ideally i want everything to be packed into the map

altho vscript limitations rn kinda suck ass

at least for what i'm doing

[orchid sorrel]

yea ppl are still learning vscript over at potato so perhaps in the future we might get vscript blimps

someone is porting reverse mvm to vscript atm

[summer steeple]

there's reverse mvm?

[orchid sorrel]

ye, was our summer 2022 event

[summer steeple]

oh right that

might end up looking at how that vscript port turns out since i've been trying to make raid mode in vscript

which is similar

but i've been kind of avoiding MVM logic due to how hardcoded it is to check for specific teams

[orchid sorrel]

yea its a bit funky innit

[summer steeple]

yeah its a big roadblock

since mvm is the only way to use popfiles, and vscript has no access to pop stuff at all rn, i'm honestly considering writing a program to convert popfiles to vscript

[wild grove]

for real.

[orchid sorrel]

I made this path with the intent that although it starts far away, it will eventually converge with the rest of the team at front

so more savvy players can get a head start on damaging it, but it wont completely blindside players

[high current]

@mystic turtle I wouldn’t over rely on strafe aim tbh. It makes your movement pattern pretty rhythmic and predictable unless you hold the timing of your shots to a detrimental extent. Also better scouts will know various ways of countering various types of aim habits, like mirroring movement to avoid strafe aim.
It’s good to throw in among other things, as it can massively help secure a meat shot. But if you’re going to have good movement + good aim, there’s no way of avoiding learning to aim and move separately.

I’d say most common mistake I see a lot of scouts make in 1v1s is thinking wayyyy too much about movement. Often times you’ll get in a scout 1v1, realize it’s a person who over-focuses on movement, hold your fire and move erratically, then after they burn 6 shots you have 6 shots to just stand still and roll them.
If you slow your strafe pattern down enough to where you can land 60-70% acc, then speed it up as your aim improves, you’ll fare much better than MGE-movement habit scouts. Also there’s high level scouts who have slow movement patterns, it’s not a disadvantage if you do it smart, just like quick strafing, you can’t just A-D-A-D, you need to do things like A-A-D-A-S-D-etc.

[jaunty willow]

well for starters it should be good enough

my take was on giving him an idea

what comes next is left to engi

[mystic turtle]

hey, I get this
like, you're not supposed to ADADADADAD
street fighter taught me that you have to throw off your opponent
make them expect something when you have a totally different mixup
that's why the double jump is important

[jaunty willow]

someone wise once said, changing your movement doesn't really change your movement

at least not instantly

your brain and your fingers will adapt to however it flows

[high current]

Double jump is useful in moderation. You can’t change direction as freely in the air (especially after your second jump) so if you use it at the wrong time you’re fucked if someone knows how to predict air strafes. I think the best use of it is while reloading.

Also biggest tip for fighting soldiers is probably don’t ALWAYS double jump, so many soldiers will wait for a double jump before even shooting that you can a lot of times throw them off NOT double jumping.

It’s definitely a good tool to have as it can totally negate splash. But if you can’t totally negate it then it isn’t necessarily worth double jumping 100% of the time.

I like scout. He’s so mechanically simple that he has a lot of depth in the amount of nuance that comes in his movement / aiming. It takes time to learn and frankly you can probably be 98% effective with just “move fast - shoot good”. But that last 2% is really interesting IMO

[summer steeple]

I wonder

how many raycasts does vvis actually do

because surely raycasts aren't that expensive, but vvis takes long enough that i feel like it must be in the millions

regeret

I looked at vvis code

i knew this would hurt my brain but i still did it

[summer steeple]

aghahagaghagh

started work on optimization of a map

i did an early pass of one small corner of the map

and it already made the compile time skyrocket

7 minutes for vvis now...

but with the other side, and with more, i worry that will just keep going up

that was 7 minutes after i set the priority of vvis to high so it could use all my CPU too

whoever made this building in viaduct i am very upset with

[craggy ridge]

you are optimizating viaduct?

[summer steeple]

yeah

for a little bit there i toyed around with making that building solid brush, or just making one of its walls solid brush, but i decided that its a lot of trouble for little to no benefit

if that building didn't have literally like 3 different openings on each side

it would be fine

but it has fucking windows for days

[craggy ridge]

why

[daring tiger]

because it's unoptimal

[craggy ridge]

but doesn't product already exists

[summer steeple]

if thats you're reasoning, mine is that i want a version of these maps to exist for potential inclusion by valve

aka, no gameplay changes aside from bug fixes

the goal is to be invisible in 99% of places

[craggy ridge]

@summer steeple what if this barrel was red

[summer steeple]

what if that barrel wasn't there at all

[daring tiger]

😯

[orchid sorrel]

what if it was an explosive barrel

[summer steeple]

what if it was a destroyable barrel

destroyable barrel my beloved

[craggy ridge]

like this?

[summer steeple]

no not quite

[craggy ridge]

what about this

[summer steeple]

hm a bit closer maybe

[craggy ridge]

this is my final attempt

[crisp cedar]

wooooooow

credit ueakcrash

on twitter dot com

[craggy ridge]

you just did

[crisp cedar]

yes

i did

[craggy ridge]

It's cool that he reached me out so he could use his bigger plataform to show my funny joke to everyone

[summer steeple]

damn making that building a func_detail again dropped the vvis time to like 4 minutes

[left sand]

vvis and vbsp should not be taking time

unless your map is made incorrectly

[summer steeple]

vbsp sure, but vvis... you'd be surprised

I know i'm pushing the engine a bit with what i'm doing but vvis times over 10 minutes are surprisingly common with how open some tf2 maps are

I find that with the changes to vrad, vvis times often overtakes compile time, at the very least for one lighting pass

[left sand]

if your maps are open, you can do a lot to manually manage vis afaik

[summer steeple]

yeah

i haven't done any yet

honestly i'm not the biggest fan of visclusters since it just seems a bit too variable on where vbsp decides to cut

actually thats not true, I did add 2 visclusters, one of which i removed because i determined that it was too small to matter and was detrimental, and the other which is in the competitive podium room, which of course doesn't need any vis calculations since its just a static camera angle

altho i guess tbh i'm not a big fan of most of source's optimization tools

areaportals are neat but always find a way to piss me off somehow

anyway for the most part i'd like to wait on visclusters until after i mostly finalize hints

i still kinda just can't shake this feeling that vvis could be faster but its way too complicated for my tiny brain to comprehend

maybe if i figure out a good way to compare assembly code to see if a change i make causes less operations or not

[orchid sorrel]

this has been a very strange expert bootcamp experience

[kind falcon]

fentanyl

[jagged pawn]

WAIT YOU'RE THE PERSON THAT DID OPTIMIZED SAWMILL

I KNEW I RECOGNIZED YOU FROM SOMEWHERE WHEN I JOINED THIS SERVER

GOOD MAP

[kind falcon]

too bad

[paper sluice]

why're bots coming back

[radiant merlin]

why not?

[summer steeple]

I honestly kinda disagree, not super proud of it since I threw mapper ease of editing out the window for the sake of better performance at all costs

thinking at some point of redoing it from scratch and not doing some of the more asinine edits that made editing harder

[craggy ridge]

I felt a little sillier today

[paper sluice]

thats understandable

[orchid sorrel]

You mean cheat bots? They never left

[paper sluice]

well yeah but its been awhile where ive gotten empty servers with nothing but bots

[daring tiger]

Well it’s not empty then is it :)

[paper sluice]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1011135022884995085/1079133975043375144/ezgif.com-resize.gif

[slender nexus]

oh no we now have puddinghook alongside fiendhook

[jagged pawn]

ah gotcha. I wouldn't know because I don't make maps I just know it runs very smoothly and there's no visible differences so that's all I was looking for lol

[summer steeple]

i wouldn't say very smoothly, but definitely better

[summer steeple]

man

occluders

why do they suck lol

I had always wondered how much it mattered that comfig limited it to 2 occluders minimum, and disabled them any further ones if they took up less than 70% of the screen

and the answer is: a lot

at this spot right here (on my version of viaduct, not stock, altho there's only minor differences) occlusion off altogether gets me ~2.7ms frametime, with comfig defaults, its ~2.55ms, with default settings, its inconsistent and sometimes drops to high 2.6ms, but usually is higher than occlusion being off altogether!

these results are according to vprof, which i don't know how accurate it is

the actual occlusion system seems to cause diminishing cost with every occluder added, with comfig defaults here its like .11ms spent on occluders, and with all its like .18, but it seems like at least in this case, the amount of stuff thats occluded just isn't enough to offset the cost of the occluders

with only 1 occluder its still ~.1ms

fucked up

i wonder if it'd be worth it to add my own occluder settings to the map for users without comfig

probably

because that way I can have a bunch of occluders everywhere and then not really need to worry about the cost

ugh but the map can't control minimum occluders visible

@left sand out of curiosity, without being able to set r_occludermincount, what do you think would be a good value for r_occluderminarea? I'm thinking somewhere around 40-50 but wanted to get your opinion since you know more about the engine than i do

[cursive peak]

https://twitter.com/ShorKtf2/status/1634331180316209152

shork (@ShorKtf2)

BIG NEWS! the TF2 voice actors are signing new and amazing TF2 artwork! (signed live)

Also this year, there wont just be a QnA I'm actually going to travel to america to make some seeecret content with them. :O

(GRAB A POSTER BEFORE THEY SELL OUT)
https://t.co/VroxxRZN1h

Likes

136

Twitter · Mar 10, 2023, 11:11 PM

[potent wolf]

I have obtained decal tool

[wintry marlin]

https://twitter.com/UEAKCrash/status/1633985398358548481

Crash (@UEAKCrash)

Is this what you want, you fucking weirdos?

Likes

10465

Retweets

1067

Twitter · Mar 10, 2023, 12:17 AM

crash is good at this.

https://twitter.com/UEAKCrash/status/1633985748184514563

Crash (@UEAKCrash)

How about a whole god damn pallet?

Are you happy now?

Likes

1502

Twitter · Mar 10, 2023, 12:18 AM

https://twitter.com/UEAKCrash/status/1633986593311662080

Crash (@UEAKCrash)

Here, I replaced every static prop in the map with the yellow barrel, is this what you want?

Likes

1729

Retweets

115

Twitter · Mar 10, 2023, 12:22 AM

https://twitter.com/UEAKCrash/status/1633987798280687621

Crash (@UEAKCrash)

DOES THIS EARN YOUR ENGAGEMENT, INTERNET?

Likes

2085

Retweets

174

Twitter · Mar 10, 2023, 12:27 AM

[craggy ridge]

I'm gonna play a pug for the first time in months

[next nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/attitude-pug-gif-26232402

play a what!?

[daring tiger]

I've been killed by a bush

[daring tiger]

@zealous pond

[wild grove]

This is so freakin' epic

[zealous pond]

My Heavy is beautiful.

Thank you Dario Casali. 🥺

[jagged pawn]

best map of the year so far https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2941994647

[kind falcon]

proof?

[jagged pawn]

no.

[kind falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-hip-hop-swag-drizzy-kiss-gif-3992449

[paper sluice]

https://gamebanana.com/mods/431925

huntsman if it was cool as shit

[craggy ridge]

https://gamebanana.com/mods/429846

yoo

[kind falcon]

hacker

why use this when you can hack on a listen server

smh my head

[orchid sorrel]

https://streamable.com/8ry2us

Splat

[kind falcon]

slam dunk

[frosty gull]

servers with sv_pure 0:

No NONONONONO WAIT WAIT WAIT

NO WAIT

NOOO

[kind falcon]

no

[frosty gull]

yes

[kind falcon]

no

[potent wolf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH7H-Ie9C_I

[jagged pawn]

can't watch rn but the answer is just "no" isn't it

[potent wolf]

no it's great and perfect

[jagged pawn]

lmao

[formal dew]

the sandman is literally a deity with control over at least two dimensions

[zealous pond]

Doesn't work lol

[left sand]

this video will be accurate in 3 months hopefully

[wintry marlin]

https://twitter.com/thelannia/status/1632764126769340416

lanto (@thelannia)

crying

Likes

19243

Retweets

2038

Twitter · Mar 6, 2023, 3:24 PM

[jagged pawn]

is there any reason to expect balance changes or is this just pure optimism (which I respect)

[formal dew]

community fix:

fixed the sandman applying a slow on hit instead of stun

[jagged pawn]

finally

[next nymph]

fixed the sandman being erroneously available outside of medieval mode

[jagged pawn]

fixed the sandman being obtainable by weapon drops or achievements; must now be purchased for $4.99

[zealous pond]

Not a balance change but a bug fix.

[jagged pawn]

what bug is there with the sandman beyond just having shit stats (again, didn't watch yet)

[craggy ridge]

bypassable slow effect

which even if fixed

sandman would still be awful

[zealous pond]

The only thing holding it back at that point would be the health penalty, but at least its one benefit would work.

[jagged pawn]

oh my god please don't fix the bypassable slow effect what are you doing

now people are gonna actually use the natascha I'm so fucked

literally just instant death as scout

[zealous pond]

It's not instant death.

[jagged pawn]

😐

[next nymph]

natascha buff:

• instant kills any scouts hit

[jagged pawn]

I don't see a change

[zealous pond]

Just abuse the Mad Milk and FaN like a good Scout.

[jagged pawn]

I don't see how the mad milk is related and that would require that I actually use the force a nature

[zealous pond]

Mad Milk and FaN make fighting Heavies trivially simple.

[jagged pawn]

how do I get in meatshot range when I've been glued to the floor

[zealous pond]

The fix does not glue you to the floor.

[left sand]

theres 2 components to the stunned movement which allow it to be bypassed

one is strafing which is a staple of Source movement and will not be changed. There's already a base movement slow in the game. stunned movement is a separate slow which affects control, not movement speed (though lack of control correlates to a slower direct move speed)

because it affects control, things which move you beyond direct control (like strafing) will not be affected. you can still strafe/wiggle to boost your speed, similar to air strafing or bunny hopping

stunned movement is NOT a move speed cap

now, what I have actually fixed is stunned movement being instantly negated by 41.4% if you move diagonally

if you are pressing 2 movement keys in opposite directions, like W and D, then instantly you subtract 41.4% of the stunned movement effect

this means every stun movement amount below 41.4% is ZERO whenever you hold 2 keys down

[rare creek]

they make fighting everything else less than trivial

[left sand]

and a 60% stunned movement is actually a 18.6% slow

[zealous pond]

The same could be said about Natascha when it doesn't help much in matchups with Soldier and Demoman.

[craggy ridge]

why did they go this route

[zealous pond]

You equip situationally.

[craggy ridge]

so unnecessarily convoluted

[left sand]

because there's 2 movement slows, they do different things

one affects control, one affects speed

[zealous pond]

And Mad Milk is a ridiculous boon in most engagements.

[left sand]

anyways, doing this straight fix (essentially increasing every slow by up to 41.4%) is super disruptive to gameplay

[jagged pawn]

I mean yeah mad milk is a top 3 unlock in the game so it's a little unfair to say "just use that" when any interaction is brought up

[left sand]

so, I have developed a system to grant near legacy behavior

[jagged pawn]

I am reading mcoms btw I'm just waiting until she's done to respond :P

[left sand]

it adjusts the stun amount scaling to be consistent across the board, no matter what keys you are pressing, and scales linearly from 0 to 100% slow, in a way which is closer to the old effective slow than it is to the full fixed slow

this means a few things get buffed for the case of the victim:

air strafing during a slow no longer punishes you, since the slow is consistent even if you are pressing one key

across the board, the slow is less in the case of pressing one movement key, and it's more intuitive to the user.

of course most people will have been using 2 movement keys in regular play, so it's a nerf, but that's why i have leaned the scaling more to the old slow effective amount rather than the other way around

for the user, it means a few things:

slows under 41.4% get applied now for diagonal movement, increasing the effective range of the natascha and greatly increasing the potency of slows that were near this threshold, like the bonk and sandman

it also means that slows are slightly higher for diagonal movement than they were, so the weapon is more effective

there is 1 exception we have applied to this new scaling

which is demoknight charges, which receives the full slow because this is what he was affected by before and critically a natascha slow was enough to end his charge before

in conclusion, i have taken care to make sure this bug fix is beneficial to everyone involved, by being more consistent, not disruptive, and more useful while still being fair

[jagged pawn]

I'm not disagreeing that this is a better way for it to work if the goal is to have a functional slow effect (and I appreciate that you didn't just fix the bug and call it a day, and instead properly adjusted the scaling). what I'm saying is just that I preferred these weapons being dysfunctional because slow effects aren't fun to fight. I'd rather a couple weapons be trash than have to actually deal with someone else taking control of my character away

[left sand]

in practice, the slow effect is extremely fair and doesn't punish the user except when youd die anyway to minigun DPS

[jagged pawn]

(not that you shouldn't have fixed them obviously it's just unfortunate that the end result is less fun for me personally)

[left sand]

in fact, it benefits you in a lot of cases because the slow is consistent and less

because if you were pressing A before in a fight, youd get the full slow

now you get less

[jagged pawn]

you're just thinking about it on paper. it's probably better in a single interaction sure but by making the gun more consistent for the user, more people will use it

[left sand]

consistent for both the victim and user

and no this isn't on paper

this is based on real testing over the course of a week

[jagged pawn]

right yes I'm just specifically saying user because it has to do with my point

[left sand]

so you're saying fixing the Natascha is a "notice me" change?

[jagged pawn]

what I mean by "on paper" is "in a given interaction how does it feel", because it's not accounting for the frequency of interactions, which will likely increase

[zealous pond]

He doesn't want more people using a weapon he doesn't find fun to play against.

[jagged pawn]

I don't know what this means but probably not?

[jagged pawn]

it's literally this yes. I'm saying it's an objectively good change that is a subjective net negative to me personally that's all

[zealous pond]

Most people don't realize Natascha is bugged in the first place.

[left sand]

you're saying because the Natascha gets a change, people will notice it and start to use it

[jagged pawn]

oh then yeah

[zealous pond]

They use it to counter Scouts and think it's working.

[left sand]

I can get that, but in just simulating this meta environment in actual play, we saw that people did in fact use the Natascha more often when the raw fix was applied

[zealous pond]

I have serious doubts this will change equip rates beyond the first week of the patch's release.

[left sand]

however, with the scaled fix, usage rates dropped off shortly after initial testing

[jagged pawn]

interesting. obviously I'd love to be wrong

I just worry lol

[left sand]

because they just tested it, saw it was consistent but underwhelming

and then switched back to another class

or used a higher DPS minigun

[jagged pawn]

I suppose that makes sense, it's still not great even with the fix

[left sand]

it's OP with the raw fix

with the scaled fix it's basically no different in terms of power level

but just more consistent

this is mathematically based upon movement patterns and averages

[jagged pawn]

right

[next nymph]

i think if the problem is that natascha slow is bull when the slow is implemented correctly and reasonably, the problem is the natascha, not that the slow implementation can't be negated

[jagged pawn]

well either way I'm glad you didn't just do the raw fix lol. thanks for approaching it with balance in mind

[jagged pawn]

I mean yes but she can't just change the natascha stats

[left sand]

the fact is they tuned those balance values with the bugged behavior in mind

[jagged pawn]

it is one of the worst designs in the game but all she can do is bug fix

[left sand]

the other problem is the extremely important case of slowing a demoknight enough to cancel his charge

[left sand]

just because a 60% slow is bull doesn't mean a lower slow is also bull

like if the rocket launcher's damage falloff was bug fixed somehow and now did 500 damage

then you'd adjust the value to meet the fixed falloff

not say damage falloff is bull

just adding on to that

[next nymph]

nah i get ya, i was just mentioning that as another thing to add to grapevine: if the concern is that you dont like the natascha slow when slows have a better implementation, the problem then is the natascha and not the implementation

a better implementation is worth having even if the thing isnt balanced the way you'd like because of it imo

[hybrid cloud]

i think if you adjust the implementation you can then go on to adjust the weapon afterwards to be the best it can

like setting up the foundation

[jagged pawn]

I just think the other way around (or ideally, in unity) would be better

nothing can be done about that ofc

[next nymph]

i mean you wouldn't catch me complaining if the natascha slow was reworked out entirely, but thats just me

[zealous pond]

I think fundamentally nothing should be "balanced" with unintuitive, unintended glitches.

Things should be clearly communicated to the player.

[cursive peak]

https://www.twitch.tv/rglgg

34 minutes to Highlander, and it's Steel week.

[cursive peak]

And here we go.

[orchid sorrel]

I wonder how new natty will fair in MVM

one of my favorite uses for it was to bully sentry busters

[high current]

Why would you run the unlock that has to reload to kill a heavy, to fight a heavy? Just run stock stock and 3 shot the heavy. Also if mad angry milk comes into play to kill a heavy, you’re taking too long and mad milk isn’t going to save you.

[kind falcon]

shortstop and mad milk is the indented dened way

[hybrid cloud]

the best thing mad milk has against a heavy is how fat his hitbox is so it's very easy to recover health once you flank him

[kind falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/catwithswag-gif-24901201

[high current]

You just kill him too fast to need healing. If you’re getting hit enough to benefit from mad milk you’re doing it wrong

We should add “mad milk” to monkey bot ignore list

[kind falcon]

yeah im doing it wrong

im bad at the video game

[high current]

I mean mad milk is good, but I just wouldn’t waste it on a heavy

[small siren]

*I mean mad milk is

good, but I just wouldn’t waste

it on a heavy*

- peaches

[hybrid cloud]

i guess you could throw it at a heavy during a push and have everyone focus on his big slow frame

[kind falcon]

pyro should have mad milk to compliment phlog

[zealous pond]

I never said Scouts should need it, just that it's EZ insurance for a Heavy fight. And I mentioned the FaN because it's also easy to manhandle Heavies with by pushing them around and disrupting their shots. If Natascha is a problem for whatever reason, that should help. Cheese vs. cheese.

But Natascha or no, Scout vs. Heavy head-on without an ambush isn't the best idea anyway.

[jagged pawn]

I mean yeah and the natascha lets a heavy force the scout into taking that fight

[zealous pond]

If you're close enough to a Heavy that you're being slowed that much, you'd die anyway.

You're out of position.

And Scout has way more control over engagement than Heavy does.

[high current]

Honestly even if you’re not ambushing the heavy, if you’re close enough range it is nearly impossible to track a competent scout. Natasha with slow fix might change that, but with minigun there’s no shot. I think in 10 seasons of highlander there was a single heavy that I couldn’t long strafe around. Most others you can sorta just “trackstab” them to close the distance and then it’s over.

I’d probably prefer to just jam my scattergun down their face than deal with juggling them. Plus that way if I somehow miss 50% of my shots I can still close out the kill

[jagged pawn]

yeah the problem with the natascha is that it lets the heavy lock you into midrange, which is where you're at your worst against a heavy. at point blank he's not getting you

[high current]

Yeh if you can’t start the fight at your range it’s just not worth it. Doesn’t necessarily have to mean the heavy doesn’t see you till close range, but by the time shots are fired it needs to be at scout range or your screwed assuming the heavy is competent.
Knowing when to pass up on a fight is the biggest skill curve in the game IMO, especially on scout.

[zealous pond]

If you're getting that close you're probably taking a Heavy by surprise around a corner or something so you have the benefit of their latent reaction.

[zealous pond]

It doesn't lock you, you can still escape. It doesn't literally glue you to the floor and there's damage falloff. You just said Scout shouldn't be taking a Heavy at that range anyway, so that's just bad playing on the Scout's part. He's out of position.

[high current]

Eh. A lot of times you can cut LOS and close distance using an obstacle. Heavies like being partially concealed to make them less of a massive target, so if they aren’t careful you can use their cover against them. Most common example is probably the rocks on the hill on upward 1st-2nd.

Best scenario is catching them by surprise because then they’re usually dead before they can rev. But even if they are aware of you, you can typically catch them in your range if they’re too close to cover.

[zealous pond]

That would be their fault for sticking it out knowing you can gain an advantage like that. I know in comp self-preservation is secondary, but I'd nope out of there if I could predict that setup.

[high current]

Yeh main thing is heavy is fat so he either unrevs to try and run or stays reved to try to defend himself. Scouts ideal job is to be opportunistic and catch people making mistakes. A heavy in a position like that will usually have their teammates to cover them, but if they get their too soon or stay too late you can swoop in and spank them.

[wintry marlin]

https://youtu.be/hCUh5cRCyK8

cool stuff

[craggy ridge]

NEWS FLASH SPY CLOAK DEBUFF DURATION REDUCTION EXISTS

[spare obsidian]

™️

[limpid panther]

is it still possible to get this achievement by normal means?

[crisp cedar]

this probably checks for distance and not stun duration

[daring tiger]

coms got it the other day after not even hitting anyone with it

so yes

[jagged pawn]

lmao what

[craggy ridge]

yes?

why wouldn't it be possible

[kind falcon]

whats a max range hit anyway

[daring tiger]

When you hit the ball from maximum range. Hope this helps!

[kind falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/gosling-sad-crying-gif-17987081

[daring tiger]

Literally me! Omg!

[craggy ridge]

Whats the fire particle lifetime?