4,8k free-to-play tagged games
only that much are verified
#Team Fortress 2 Megathread - winter is the most chill time of year
wintry marlin
hybrid cloud
theyre interested because its "new content"
wintry marlin
what's probably even worse is that only 504 games have "played with steam controller" tag
hybrid cloud
once theyre bored of it theyll go back to sunk costing their hats after a week
crisp cedar
theyre interested because its "new content"
theyre interested but they wont keep playing it
thats the thing
there's always interest but no committal
noone commits to supporting the community
hybrid cloud
its too much effort for the average player
crisp cedar
big promises but all talk
hybrid cloud
faceit was another project that the community shunned
summer steeple
too much effort, we don't know if s&box will be free, no cosmetics (70% of tf2 players are out 
) and the big thing people want is new content, which tfs2 isn't
crisp cedar
i dont get what was the problem with faceit
crisp cedar
too much effort, we don't know if s&box will be free, no cosmetics (70% of tf2 p...
tfs2 is a vessel for new content but like
hybrid cloud
people didnt like the framing / anticheat
summer steeple
intrusive anti-cheat was the big problem with faceit iirc
crisp cedar
theres plenty of new content in tf2c (although very questionable new content)
wintry marlin
what's probably even worse is that only 504 games have "played with steam contro...
honestly, irrelevant tag, it's automated or user-guided and not a lot of people have steam controllers nor do they play every game
crisp cedar
dont see many people caring
hybrid cloud
ironically the custom weapons servers are the most popular
small sirenBOT
next nymph
the biggest issue was honestly just that the community doesnt like to adopt services until they are necessary
hybrid cloud
again, the tf2 community just wants to play casual because its too convenient
you cant convince them to host their own servers even though that was like, the main way to play the game all the way back till quickplay happened
so to expect them to support community projects is too much
small sirenBOT
next nymph
faceit was around when esea was on the way out but still kicking iirc, so people stuck to esea largely
hybrid cloud
the way parts of the tf2 community act about the recent update blog, community projects and the like makes me feel like they dont care about the game as much as they say they do, and just want neatly packaged content from valve specifically
daring tiger
they just want new official weapons
next nymph
i want more weapons so i can complain about their balance and that they shouldnt have been added
hybrid cloud
so true
high current
Give scout a sniper rifle
potent wolf
Give scout a sniper rifle
please do this
high current
would make sniper less op
high current
Give him smart pistol from Titanfall 1, that was even better👀
potent wolf
die
high current
D:
Remove all classes except scout, but give scout every weapon in the game
That actually sounds kinda fun
crisp cedar
the way parts of the tf2 community act about the recent update blog, community p...
because thats literally true
high current
People just want Valve to endorse community projects because they feel like that makes community projects better. And in fairness I'd also like to scrim on TC2, so if that gets officially endorsed or bits added to the game then I'll be happy.
But people begging for new weapons to be added just want the game to be fortnite tbh. Where the core game isn't enough to keep people interested so they need big updates every season to keep people coming back.
formal dew
Id be happy with a large bundle of fixes
high current
I'd be happy with just one fix tbh
zealous pond
Or maybe people want new weapons because they like new weapons and new experiences in a game they enjoy playing.
high current
Like the game lasted 15 years and probably 10 of that was with a bug fix every 3 years
formal dew
2021 and 2022 had a fairly thick selection of fixes
Including turning off random fall damage after 15 mf years
Except in casual
zealous pond
I like the Pyro finger fix.
high current
Or maybe people want new weapons because they like new weapons and new experienc...
There's 208 weapons in the game, that's already a lot of different combinations
formal dew
Pyro named finger
zealous pond
Pyro finger family.
cursive peak
It's really after 2015 that the updates slowed.
formal dew
Wait a minute
zealous pond
There's 208 weapons in the game, that's already a lot of different combinations
Not enough.
zealous pond
A lot of them are useless garbage too.
high current
What do you think they're going to add to the game? Look at the hot hand or the banana
daring tiger
It would be nice to have all weapons be viable, or at least interesting
high current
tru
zealous pond
What do you think they're going to add to the game? Look at the hot hand or the ...
Nothing.
wintry marlin
give him the smart pistol from titanfall 2
give him dataknife
hybrid cloud
it doesn't matter that they're useless because tf2 players could literally care less about viability
cursive peak
Then fixing those would be better than just adding new weapons.
hybrid cloud
all they want is to meme
potent wolf
give him dataknife
give the spy dataknife
zealous pond
Wait you're talking about new weapons, not Valve.
potent wolf
actually, that would be really cool now that i think about it
small sirenBOT
zealous pond
New weapons when done properly can be amazing obviously.
potent wolf
Theres no reason to add new weapons really
zealous pond
Sure there is.
potent wolf
We have more than enough weapons
cursive peak
There aren't really any good weapon concepts left to mine.
daring tiger
We have more than enough weapons
Yeah. It’s just half are never used
zealous pond
There are plenty of concepts.
potent wolf
Yeah. It’s just half are never used
exactly
formal dew
I want a minigun that gives a speed boost on hit
hybrid cloud
there are no good* concepts
formal dew
Inverse natascha
zealous pond
Eh.
cursive peak
Concepts like "anal discharge" are not worth mining for weapons.
hybrid cloud
i don't want the game to become tf2classic's knockout custom weapons
zealous pond
You know what, you're right. TF2 doesn't need anything. Perfect game.
wintry marlin
perhaps wave of gold
cursive peak
A rebalance of weak weapons is effectively a new weapon.
zealous pond
Not unless the weapon is 100% reworked into something unrecognizable.
cursive peak
Look at the Big Earner. It used to be good for making scrap and nothing else.
wintry marlin
imagine if there was corpse piler in tf2
daring tiger
Not unless the weapon is 100% reworked into something unrecognizable.
If it reworks it so it’s able to be used viably then it’s close enough
Big earner and scorch shot used to never be used
zealous pond
I can't imagine a case where the Brass Beast as a concept is salvageable.
cursive peak
And TF2 is in a pretty good spot balance wise. It doesn't need much. It needs performance and bug fixes more than weaponry.
daring tiger
Dead ringer has the same concept but works entirely differently than before
zealous pond
Not without making it stupid.
wintry marlin
tf2 should add genji from overwatch
cursive peak
A 2007 game shouldn't struggle on 2023 hardware.
hybrid cloud
valve:
wintry marlin
imagine actually being able to climb up tf2 walls like a nnja
badwater second point would be so much more less choked
hybrid cloud
simply give spy a sapper replacement grapple hook
wintry marlin
or ability to parkour like titanfall
slender nexus
tf2 should add jonesy from Fortnite
cursive peak
That's just fancy rocket jumping.
slender nexus
We also need TF2 sex
wintry marlin
titanfall parkour doesn't use explosive jumps, the main mechaniic is just wallrunning
wintry marlin
giving a class that can backstab ability to parkour makes so much sense I'm surprised valve hasn't done it
immersive sim
zealous pond
See the problem with Mannpower is that the good classes also have grapple hooks.
potent wolf
See the problem with Mannpower is that the good classes also have grapple hooks.
skill issue
cursive peak
Like, I swear Sniper wasn't complained about nearly as much back in the day. People knew to move erraticly and avoid sight lines.
wintry marlin
well not necessarily parkour but just being able to crouch and get on top of things better
being a spider
zealous pond
Like, I swear Sniper wasn't complained about nearly as much back in the day. Peo...
I think the opposite is true.
wintry marlin
while scout is definitely the fast and jump a lot type
cursive peak
Compared to 2012?
zealous pond
The playerbase was less experienced overall.
The game was newer.
As games age their problems become more salient.
slender nexus
And those players almost definitely played other shooters like quake
wintry marlin
(powercreep)
cursive peak
Or we have a bunch of new players now who come in without experiencing games where standing still was a guaranteed death.
cursive peak
They'll think Sniper is, too.
wintry marlin
if spy was the only class with grapple hook in casual, would that still make him die instantly after 1 kill or would that make him turbo overpowered like very map doesn't follow any balance?
potent wolf
basically spy needs to become hunter from left 4 dead
I love how they can just magically rotate in midair when they pounce
small sirenBOT
potent wolf
it looks really stupid
zealous pond
They'll think Sniper is, too.
No that would just be most people.
cursive peak
Sniper mostly stands out because he's the only class that isn't close to mid-range based.
Nerfing Sniper is a Medic and Heavy buff.
wintry marlin
My thought process rn is how can you make spy more... comparable to safety of sniper, who doesn't die after 1 kill
wintry marlin
I think giving spy uber after getting a backstab is too silly and makes no sense, since the goal is that he should be able to escape and re-engage (since sniper's threat factor also drops down when players become aware of his existence but he's not completely harmless still)
zealous pond
Make it so Spy replenishes all of his HP on every stab.
wintry marlin
that just makes him powercreep imo
zealous pond
Then give him a snowball buff like the Eyelander.
wintry marlin
it's like if sniper had bazaar bargain by default
I feel like grappling hook is best idea yet.
if he can use it while invisible.
but what if he couldn't use it while not invisible?
anyway, imagining a flying heavy in casual is tellale spy
giving invisible spy grappling hook will just turn him into batman
literally
potent wolf
spy needs to be able to go faster than disguise speed
It would make slower disguises more viable
wintry marlin
what if the speed was toggleable? like an action key in trackmania
wintry marlin
besides, analog movement speed exists in tf2
crisp cedar
focus should be put first on fixing what's already in the game
adding more weapons just adds more problems
potent wolf
what if the speed was toggleable? like an action key in trackmania
yeah, thats what i mean
crisp cedar
but like
the thing is
imagine balancing all the weapons tf2 has
like unless u want ot make the game into a snoozefest thats not very doable
wintry marlin
tbh, all these suggestions of buffing spy's moblity concern completent playstyle
crisp cedar
valve doesnt have the liberty of removing weapons because theyre econ items
they cant just make a balance change "removed the dead ringer"
wintry marlin
but a good player in a csaual server is able to wipe teams as is now.
hybrid cloud
they cant just make a balance change "removed the dead ringer"
this is what pains me the most
problem weapons or concepts can't be removed because the economy exists
zealous pond
Kill the economy.
wintry marlin
and also some items are bound by tf2 lore
retconning something out of existence gonna be weird
crisp cedar
i dont think thats a big issue
its not a retcon its a balance change
i mean
okay
i guess the way people deal
with balance changes
is by having a weapon blacklist
zealous pond
Make a comic where Saxton Hale recalls weapons because of lawsuits.
crisp cedar
okay nevermind you know i guess all the weapons can stay
i dont think weapons necessarily need to be competitively viable or good
for example id hate for the classic to be balanced or something
potent wolf
Make a comic where Saxton Hale recalls weapons because of lawsuits.
saxton hale would never do that
small sirenBOT
zealous pond
He would if he's hit on the head hard enough or drinks enough lead.
craggy ridge
problem weapons or concepts can't be removed because the economy exists
that's not a problem
crisp cedar
ANYWAYS
craggy ridge
yall mfs are too uncreative
crisp cedar
they cant just make a balance change "removed the dead ringer"
not a problem if blacklists exist
yeah
i forgot that people do blacklists on tf2 weapons lol
craggy ridge
I believe that you can balance tf2 in such a way that there would be no blacklists for both hl and 6s while still maintaining its fun in pubs
crisp cedar
no i think blacklists are a necessary thing
zealous pond
I thought I was being pretty creative with the snowball mechanics...
craggy ridge
no i think blacklists are a necessary thing
currently, yeah
craggy ridge
I thought I was being pretty creative with the snowball mechanics...
i didnt read anything that you wrote neither did i mentioned it
sorry
crisp cedar
you either keep the game fun in a casual level and viable in a competitive level (with blacklists in comp and no blacklists in casual)
zealous pond
i didnt read anything that you wrote neither did i mentioned it
😔
crisp cedar
or you ruin the identity of a lot of weapons, dull down the game a lot just so casual and competitive can have parity
it feels like a worthless quest to pursue
craggy ridge
or you ruin the identity of a lot of weapons, dull down the game a lot just so c...
like what weapon would you need to dull down
left sand
eh i think after seeing what happened to the game after the comp rebalances
crisp cedar
idk im not in charge of balancing weapons
left sand
and also seeing fortnite
craggy ridge
idk im not in charge of balancing weapons
give me an example
left sand
i agree there needs to be separate weapon lists for casual and competitive
crisp cedar
give me an example
why does that matter
crisp cedar
the point is that weapons will be changed for the sake of parity between casual and competitive
hybrid cloud
some weapon concepts just do not fit in comp formats
craggy ridge
GRU is the perfect example of how trickle down balance can work
left sand
sandman is now useless
crisp cedar
im not saying weapons should never be ever balanced
left sand
eviction notice is now bland
crisp cedar
im saying every weapon doesnt need to be balanced for comp
hybrid cloud
i do think that a lot of weapons that are problems in comp (regardless of format) are problems in casual
left sand
base jumper is gimped
hybrid cloud
arguably more so because nobody is coordinated enough to deal with them
left sand
crit o cola is practically useless
craggy ridge
im saying every weapon doesnt need to be balanced for comp
I'm not arguing to make every weapon have a niche on comp, i'm arguing to make every weapon be non-problematic to the point of there being no reason to have a banlist on comp
hybrid cloud
crit a cola is fine
left sand
no i think noob scouts should be able to use it to kill people better
rn it's way too balanced
zealous pond
Yeah like.
hybrid cloud
I'm not arguing to make every weapon have a niche on comp, i'm arguing to make e...
you can't make fists of steel viable for competitive without ruining its identity i think
zealous pond
What the hell did they do to the Liberty Launcher?
hybrid cloud
but id argue its identity sucks ass
zealous pond
It was a great crutch.
crisp cedar
i fucking hated the sandman i think it deserved the nerf
craggy ridge
you can't make fists of steel viable for competitive without ruining its identit...
that shit is fucking busted lmfao
crisp cedar
it wasnt fun even in casual
zealous pond
Why can't we have crutches?
left sand
the sandman was cool and funny
zealous pond
Crutches are fun.
crisp cedar
i do not enjoy being stunned
left sand
but it was a bit overtuned
the stun concept didnt need to be replaced with a useless slow
hybrid cloud
sandman should give enemies like a status effect that gives scout some kind of boost on kill
zealous pond
Would it be useless if slow actually worked? I never tried it.
small sirenBOT
hybrid cloud
then you neuter the fan o war utility
crisp cedar
make a priority target
hybrid cloud
it's already the minicrit melee
crisp cedar
okay but
heres the thing
fan o war requires you to get up close
and to hit enemies
daring tiger
no i think noob scouts should be able to use it to kill people better
Make it so scout just explodes after the effects wears off so it’s like a suicide bomber drink
left sand
make the fan o war aoe
crisp cedar
and you can hit as many as you can and want
sandman hits only one enemy
and it has a cooldown
but its ranged
left sand
ok but anyway
i like how fortnite lets people have funny weapons
because they have a comp ban list
any new weapon auto added there and then they evaluate
small sirenBOT
crisp cedar
in league they have a gamemode where its just deathmatch where players just run down the same lane
left sand
some wacky weps never get added
crisp cedar
it has items u can buy that are exclusive to the gamemode
small sirenBOT
left sand
I AM NOT SPEAKING
crisp cedar
?
anyways yea i think the nature of tf2 has a blacklist be necessary
the blacklist is perfect
you dont destroy the economy
craggy ridge
the stun concept didnt need to be replaced with a useless slow
i think it needed to be replaced
hybrid cloud
would you say that trying to balance weapons around comp is something to respect because it's trying to add more diverse options to the formats
left sand
im not saying that we just auto add to banlist
im saying that some concepts just dont get added
crisp cedar
i dont think weapons should not ever be balanced for comp
hybrid cloud
because i think an issue outsiders take with competitive play is how restrictive they feel it is to them
small sirenBOT
wintry marlin
but it wouldnt fit in comp
I think the problems started from the moment valve tried to bridge the gap with casual and comp by making everything play the same, when now we're discovering that comp could always just be an alternate version
hybrid cloud
i would prefer it, but there's also weapons that are problems in pubs too
craggy ridge
Would it be useless if slow actually worked? I never tried it.
no but it would follow the same principle of stun
people don't like to be slow
in tf2
wintry marlin
basically you can't turn tf2 into league
crisp cedar
i didnt say u cant balance non comp weapons either
i wish there was a casual 6v6
i genuinely find 6v6 kinda fun
craggy ridge
i wish there was a casual 6v6
that's what we have rn
crisp cedar
without a 4 hour queue
wintry marlin
I would suggest to go full force forward with having comp exclusive balance patches.
zealous pond
people don't like to be slow
I'm fine with being slow.
craggy ridge
i don't i hate being slow
i would rather if the scout got a speed boost from hitting you with the ball
wintry marlin
there's no limit to tf2 hubris
zealous pond
Maybe you just need to be slowed some more so you learn to take it easy and appreciate the finer things in life.
Sandman and Natascha could help with this.
hybrid cloud
why are you playing tf2 if you wanna go slow tho
zealous pond
Because minigun go burr.
wintry marlin
Exor, this comes off kinda sarcastic
hybrid cloud
i wish there was a casual 6v6
they need to remove the gfx restrictions from the competitive mode and add some kind of reward incentive that can't be traded
hybrid cloud
or maybe it should be tradable so trader mains learn to play
summer steeple
i can't believe they added comp with no reward of any kind
crisp cedar
they had plans for rewards 100%
wintry marlin
i can't believe they added comp with no reward of any kind
they didn't want to be overwatch
summer steeple
they probably did have plans
hybrid cloud
the unfortunate thing is people would just play for the reward and nothing else
crisp cedar
but they didnt do it because everyone shat on mym
zealous pond
Moving fast is something only a few classes actually do. None of the other classes have notable movement speeds.
crisp cedar
literally almost all of the tf team quit after mym
craggy ridge
Maybe you just need to be slowed some more so you learn to take it easy and appr...
i don't wan to
summer steeple
cause i mean clearly there's references to seasons
crisp cedar
cuz it was received so poorly
summer steeple
so i guess it would've been added on season end
left sand
literally almost all of the tf team quit after mym
eh
crisp cedar
or was it some other update i forgot
summer steeple
but i don't think they ever said anything about it so people just assumed valve comp was comp for people who didn't want to play community comp and/or noobs
craggy ridge
successful sandman hit marks target for death for like 6s
nuh uh
i dont want scout long range mfd
hybrid cloud
the comp mode failed so bad they probably didn't even bother
left sand
people quit after MvM Mecha Update (game felt complete) and also after JI it just felt like the last hoorah after it failed
hybrid cloud
i wonder why it failed
wintry marlin
I think it's not possible to truly bridge the gap between casual and comp, simply because valve insist on having 10v10 or 12v12.
literally nobody plays casual in csgo because it's inferior version
while nobody plays comp in tf2 because it's inferior version
craggy ridge
i wonder why it failed
doesn't balance the game around comp
no banlists
horrible map pool
horrible queue
no cfg
no qol comp changes
wintry marlin
people play casual as if it is comp in tf2
while people in csgo play comp as if it is casual
left sand
how was the map pool bad
hybrid cloud
i think even with those changes people still wouldn't play
summer steeple
turbine
craggy ridge
how was the map pool bad
turbine lol
hybrid cloud
payload
left sand
turbine wasnt on JI afaik
summer steeple
payload is fine
hybrid cloud
swiftwater specifically
crisp cedar
turbine wasnt in launch mym
left sand
and also was there for like 4 days
wintry marlin
valve has a bad track record of bridging gaps between gamemodes.
except for dota 2.
summer steeple
i think i have a turbine record from after blue moon
summer steeple
why though
crisp cedar
funny
craggy ridge
idk that's based
crisp cedar
valve devs have humor too
hybrid cloud
tf2 gamers love ctf
left sand
the queue is only horrible because people refuse to play and actively tell people to not queue for comp
most cfg stuff is allowed
crisp cedar
i wish people played more comp
left sand
and csgo doesnt allow cfgs either
wintry marlin
I think at this point noone should expect valve games to be anything like riot games
which actually have identical casual and comp in all of their games
crisp cedar
its actually kinda fun and isnt that bad
left sand
what do you mean by qol comp changes
crisp cedar
its not as bad as people say it is
summer steeple
i get queue during MYM but at that point casual queue was also bad lol
hybrid cloud
forced graphical settings are what people are concerned about
because the game does not run well without them
craggy ridge
what do you mean by qol comp changes
just stuff like disabling allie collision and etc
oh also no class limits
left sand
allied collision?
hybrid cloud
you can push players on your team
left sand
no class limits is bearable and understandable for a comp mode from valve
hybrid cloud
good way to troll teles
left sand
yeah so pushaway
crisp cedar
i mean no class limits isnt too bad
hybrid cloud
no class limits wouldn't be bad if certain classes didn't have so much power when stacked
left sand
what if the meta is 6 pyros
craggy ridge
2 meds 2 demos
left sand
like the thing is
craggy ridge
2 engis 1 sniper at last
summer steeple
i really don't know about why people care too much about ally collision
hybrid cloud
2 heavies 2 vacc medics 2 demos
summer steeple
its never been an issue for me
left sand
they dont want to add that because comp gives them data
formal dew
Agreed
wintry marlin
daring tiger
allies eating your melee hits is annoying but that really only happens in like.... turbine vents
hybrid cloud
maybe if i can get enough people to 6 stack engi and queue for comp valve will finally nerf engi stacking
summer steeple
i mean for a season 1 comp it makes sense that they want to evaluate the game and how it plays without class limits
craggy ridge
data on what class limits are more than necessary in any competitive gamemode on tf2
summer steeple
we just never got season 2
tf2 should get a guiness world record for longest competitive season in a video game with competitive seasons
craggy ridge
i mean for a season 1 comp it makes sense that they want to evaluate the game an...
they had years of data and meta developing with community comp prior to the release of vcomp
left sand
that data isnt as accessible as comp
and the community comp meta is stagnant even though theres clearly superior strategies employed by a lot of teams
wintry marlin
we need a white man video essay on valve comp modes right NOW
summer steeple
its kinda all anecdotal evidence isn't it? compared to valve being able to sick their servers on data analytics for their servers
hybrid cloud
ive also heard that valve just does not like the meta
left sand
like there was a time where teams broke the honor system and started doing unfair strats which broke the game
left sand
and its just clear
that the current 6s meta is basically honorbound but also its devolved to be purely around sniper picks tbh
wintry marlin
also I think what's also discouraging valve is how much work it is to make sure everything works reliably, like demos
left sand
roamer sacks for med, switch to sniper
daring tiger
a double med strat could be interesting
hybrid cloud
is it a format issue or a class design issue
summer steeple
yes
daring tiger
but that could rely on uber pushes even more, as you'd have two ubers you could either push or deny with
craggy ridge
a double med strat could be interesting
everyone that I have i know that played NR6s said that 2 meds is the most boring poo poo annoying boring annoying thing to fight against
wintry marlin
the reason why you don't see many class-based team-based competitive FPS games is because you have to layout the design on paper before you actually make the game
tf2 is lightning in a bottle
craggy ridge
tf2 is lightning in a bottle
i think tf2 is a game
but i might be wrong in this one
left sand
the current comp playerbase are people who largely enjoy the current formats
daring tiger
everyone that I have i know that played NR6s said that 2 meds is the most boring...
I mean they say that about everything that's not the current set up
small sirenBOT
left sand
or else they wouldnt be playing them
daring tiger
literally go vacc med and they complain
craggy ridge
I mean they say that about everything that's not the current set up
i wonder why
left sand
the advantage to valve comp is that theres no barrier
and thus unlike community comp
theres an opportunity to more widely test things without restrictions
its similar to how all pick vs. captains mode works in dota
small sirenBOT
left sand
captains mode is the esport format
wintry marlin
I think what made cs the esport it is now and the whole accessible thing you just mentioned was described in a recent germanpeter video.
left sand
ranked all pick is the pub competitive format
left sand
captains mode restricts certain heroes from play, so that it can get testing in pubs
crisp cedar
when is this server hosting a 5v5 captains mode tournament
wintry marlin
when is the server organizes its own game studio
all talk but no prototypes
we need proof of concept 6v6 comp class shooter that has playstyle variability in the classes instead of making up new characters
battlefield 6 ig
left sand
imo
thats one of the main regrets of tf2
the item system
because it makes characters less readable and also restricts what you can really do for a subclass
craggy ridge
i find tf2 weapons to very easily stand out from each other
wintry marlin
eh, a callback to visibility and recognition argument about tf2's artstyle comes to mind
since the addition of warpaints and paintable cosmetics we are past the point of no return, honestly, lol.
even if "distinct silhouette" was used as a primary philosophy for designing the classes, it's completely different from what we've been getting for like the past decade now
youtubers still use that outdated philosophy as gospel for everything.
or I guess Valve isn't following their own rules.
maybe it still works for the game, they built the foundation on that, but everything since then only made recognition worse
crisp cedar
what rules?
wintry marlin
adding weapon unlocks already goes against recognition
and cosmetics.
I feel like valve made these sacrifices because they had other ideas in mind.
and yeah, overwatch has zero recognition thanks to the full bodyswap cosmetics, so they just have sound design and UI elements to compensate.
perhaps recognition doesn't matter as much as people make it out to be
wintry marlin
or there's a line that developers just shouldn't cross
wintry marlin
...tf2 doest have sound design
I am referring to that every ow character can still be recognized by the voicelines and weapon sounds.
I wouldn't count on sfx because those get changed between different skins.
tf2 has that, with some exceptions.
multiclass weapons.
left sand
i find tf2 weapons to very easily stand out from each other
yes i know when a spy has the dead ringer as a semi new player
craggy ridge
you learn very quickly when a spy is using the dr and when he isn't
wintry marlin
I love when spies leave deflated lizard corpses to indicate that they use dr
totally intentional game mechanic
which you lose if you disable ragdolls
wintry marlin
but hey, bombonomicon works regardless of settings
only that spies would have to have the courtesy of making it easier for you
bombonomicon makes dr fair and balanced
wintry marlin
biggest indicator anyways is how no killsound plays
valve will fix killsound bug next patch
rare creek
Bug?
summer steeple
surely valve will add a cvar for only playing killsounds every X seconds like hitsounds already have
craggy ridge
bison penetrating players was a bug
bison is the only weapon that I am fine with it remaining bad
rare creek
craggy ridge
wish there was a running gag that every update valve nerfed the bison more and more
wintry marlin
wish there was a running gag that every update valve nerfed the bison more and m...
nerf the pig
potent wolf
truly hilarious
wintry marlin
wait different game
craggy ridge
wintry marlin
dead by daylight
craggy ridge
why did UnuSandwich just had a breakdown on twitter
https://twitter.com/UnusualSandwich/status/1483652013862920192?t=jOflUumZwUMIgd6YrOKxVg&s=19
this is too obvious for it to be a troll
craggy ridge
what is this
wintry marlin
lmao
potent wolf
why did UnuSandwich just had a breakdown on twitter
https://twitter.com/UnusualS...
thats just trolling lol
craggy ridge
LOL
crisp cedar
lol
high current
They should add the portable truck unlock from cluster truck to TF2. I think it would be a good spy sapper replacement.
Imagine a sentry gun is locking down your whole team. Then bam, dump truck where the sentry gun once was. Then spy flying through the air at Mach 7, missing the trick stab on the med and cratering. That’s a tf2 moment.
Actually I’m on a roll with weapon ideas. So here’s another:
Directly port the awp from csgo, movement accuracy penalty, one shot body shot, wall banging, all of it, call it something like something like “2nd awpertunity”
high current
I don’t know if the world is ready for my magnum do-opus
wintry marlin
yes but mine is bigger anyway
craggy ridge
yes but mine is bigger anyway
what game are you making rn
craggy ridge
how many games are you making?
next nymph
Actually I’m on a roll with weapon ideas. So here’s another:
Directly port the a...
call it the awper hand
high current
Not quite as catchy
summer steeple
if the bot is outside their designated radius (the red circle) they'll attempt to find their way back to it
potent wolf
of course
half rose
rare creek
dxvk 2 leak
rare creek
why would you use vscript instead of a sourcemod plugin?
kind falcon
kill sourcemod
rare creek
bruh
summer steeple
i'm not familiar with sourcemod, plus this just makes it easier for server operators
rare creek
are you familiar with vscript
summer steeple
yoooo, Dashie (cheater/bot hoster) sentenced to 19.5 years in prison due to possession of CP
rip bozo
sauce: https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/114xlvu/comment/j8zhath/
comment linked apparently has a vid of the court hearing
mystic turtle
Holy shit
summer steeple
19.5 isn't enough tbh
mystic turtle
I just got a quadruple collateral kill with the fucking machina
It was on a bot server, but still
4 kills
summer steeple
rip those bots
https://tenor.com/view/rip-bozo-gif-22294771
mystic turtle
the machina sound effect was so damn loud lmfao
rare creek
yoooo, Dashie (cheater/bot hoster) sentenced to 19.5 years in prison due to poss...
You are just finding out about this?
summer steeple
yes
rare creek
Btw they were the piece of shit who put cp on their sprays/signs
summer steeple
christ
like the only social media i use is discord
and i'm in 2 tf2 servers
and the other one just found out about this
which is how i found out
kind falcon
yoooo, Dashie (cheater/bot hoster) sentenced to 19.5 years in prison due to poss...
yay! twi is so based 😍
craggy ridge
kind falcon
dota 😱
wintry marlin
yoooo, Dashie (cheater/bot hoster) sentenced to 19.5 years in prison due to poss...
Is this a different person or a youtuber that I've seen before
small sirenBOT
astral crow
rip those bots
https://tenor.com/view/rip-bozo-gif-22294771
in relation to bots, i've just learned that typical tf2 player bots (or any bot that uses sniper really) genuinely cannot hit headshots if you're using scorchers solo
this is consistent behavior and i've used it to help out my team whenever the other team is bot infested
or use it as a bot checker
jaunty willow
yoooo, Dashie (cheater/bot hoster) sentenced to 19.5 years in prison due to poss...
loooool lets goooo
jaunty willow
this is consistent behavior and i've used it to help out my team whenever the ot...
intresting
astral crow
its like they're trying to hit a headshot from where my player model used to be when it happens
human players can hit me just fine, but bots definitely have trouble
they either bodyshot me or just straight up miss completely
if i get a lobby with a bot in my next session ill try to pull it off to see what happens
wintry marlin
taunts cause changes in the hitboxes, but if you do a voiceline while in a taunt it causes a mismatch serverside.
wintry marlin
I think so too.
astral crow
thought that bots aim at the hitbox rather than the model
clearly they seem to not know what to do with this one, weirdly enough
jaunty willow
then whats intresting is, how do they miss then
small sirenBOT
wintry marlin
or I suppose where the hitbox would be by default.
jaunty willow
hm...
wintry marlin
like, they don't know exactly where the hitbox is.
just assume it is in exactly the same spot each time.
astral crow
maybe they try to hit the head, but due to the animation being looking down at the piano, maybe something is blocking it?
doesnt explain why they miss though
wintry marlin
I think that they are able to recognize the class by the pixels on the screen.
and then have a rough idea of where the head hitbox is supposed to be.
jaunty willow
you aint gonna tell me that they really use pixel recognition to understand what class they aiming at right?
wintry marlin
probably the easiest way to cheat.
astral crow
you aint gonna tell me that they really use pixel recognition to understand what...
honestly i dont think they bother looking at class
astral crow
like they will just find where the head hitbox is through an external program, and snap to it and shoot
jaunty willow
yea thats what it looks like they do 90% of the time
wintry marlin
I think valve made it more convenient for cheaters by having an openly readable variable given by the server that you can't see on your scoreboard until the enemy dies that tells you which class the enemy is.
so you can render the correct model clientside and such.
astral crow
they also dont target other bots in servers, so they decide who is human and who is not so they just dont kill eachother since they send a specific string of text through servers
wintry marlin
how else are you supposed to know which class the enemy is if your game client doesn't know?
astral crow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIwqlKDPq4s 6 months ago, but this is most likely how its done
wintry marlin
oh yeah they do that by having a hidden steam achievement being ticked in the code.
jaunty willow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIwqlKDPq4s 6 months ago, but this is most likel...
that one got patched i believe?
astral crow
that one got patched i believe?
probably, but theres no update so who knows
jaunty willow
they might aswell do it outside of tf2
im not a dev but, i believe doing that outside of tf2 where all bots ping each other on regular basis sounds way easier than like using some weird invalid achivment code or whatever
that may or may not work anymore
wintry marlin
a fix would imply removing a cut content achievement, sure.
then that would make bots use the second best thing which is have an achievement with the lowest percentage of being achieved by real players.
you could guess there's a few thousand accounts that have an impossible steam achievement that inflated the rarity of it to common.
wintry marlin
replay achievements are still shown on your steam and are part of the 100% completion requirement.
astral crow
if they use a valid achievement then regular players can become immune to bots if they have that achievement
jaunty willow
yea june 21st undocumented change, it got fixed
wintry marlin
tf2 uses outdated youtube api making achievements unable to read what youtube videos are tf2 replays and how much views they have.
making replay achievements impossible.
jaunty willow
hmn
wintry marlin
you used to be able to upload a replay directly from the game afaik.
using apple's quicktime.
funny.
it was abandoned due to security vulnerabilities.
jaunty willow
heh
wintry marlin
it was a different time and I haven't heard of any other game that incorporates being a youtuber into the game.
consider that those achievements also give you hats.
wintry marlin
if you see any frontline field recorder nowadays they were most likely cheated in by item servers.
I think valve considered doing twitch drops for tf2 before.
but never got around to finishing it.
even the wiki says it.
jaunty willow
jaunty willow
even the wiki says it.
o h
jaunty willow
also yes^
wintry marlin
yeah, you had to upload from in-game.
now imagine if he had these achievements but for tiktok instead
small sirenBOT
jaunty willow
wintry marlin
one of the achievements requires you to get 100k views.
with tiktok that's piss easy, lol.
wintry marlin
that's how long most elden ring fights last.
left sand
yea june 21st undocumented change, it got fixed
😇
jaunty willow
hence why youtube stole it aswell
left sand
well, hear me out im just re-citing the video
<:wheeze:868738083284197407>
yes I'm just saying;)
jaunty willow
that's how long most elden ring fights last.
lmfao
left sand
the way they truce is through just being hosted on the same PC or IRC
jaunty willow
oh neat,
idk what word I could use here so that'll do
just btw, I'm always assuming I'm wrong myself
jaunty willow
so I don't really trust my own word until someone more trustful can confirm
I have a healthy amount of paranoia :3
radiant merlin
hearty kelp
anyone still using mastercomfig 9.6.3 from 2021 because all the new versions cause random crashes? me too
cursive peak
First I'm hearing of it.
hearty kelp
all my crashes after map change/loading into servers stopped when using this old version
daring tiger
are you using any custom configs
cursive peak
Yeah, sounds like it's something in your personal configs that's executing at such times.
hearty kelp
it wouldn't be my autoexec or class configs because those don't execute on map change
summer steeple
sounds like a preloading/mod crash
hearty kelp
is preloading not supported anymore?
summer steeple
no it is, its just that some mods cause crashes when preloading
whats your custom folder look like?
hearty kelp
I got a few mods that use model preloading: a ragdoll mod, and 2007 weapon viewmodels, the rest are textures/sounds/particles
summer steeple
yeah model preloading tends to be the cause of those crashes, i'd try temporarily removing some of those mods and testing to see if it crashes
also, did these crashes specifically start with 9.7.0 (the version directly after 9.6.3) or did you not try updating until the versions after that
hearty kelp
i just know there was a big gap between 9.6.3 and the new versions and i started getting crashes after trying the new versions, but im gonna try again on the latest one
summer steeple
i'm thinking maybe the issue is that in 9.8.0 we renamed the user folder to overrides?
so maybe its not preloading because of that?
cursive peak
30-ish minutes to Highlander.
summer steeple
the big bad boss: matsys_regressiontest/background cat
potent wolf
the big bad boss: matsys_regressiontest/background cat
you shooted the kitty
@unborn pecan the cat blew up
unborn pecan
Finallyly
slender nexus
Holy fucking bingle
daring tiger
I hate that you have to pay for the more expensive nitro for better streaming
serene yarrow
I've capped the intel countless times
Over 3k+ hours
why did I only get this today
daring tiger
You have to cap as sniper
serene yarrow
I've done it a lot as sniper though and I'm 100% sure of that
summer steeple
ye that title makes me think of meet the sniper so i assume its a sniper achievement
daring tiger
I once got the scottish resistance achievement on demo for killing 3 players pushing the cart
While spamming normal stickies
summer steeple
ye thats weird, the code seems to literally just check to see if you cap the flag
nothing fancy
serene yarrow
I've had other achievement things happen that have been odd
I think I got the conga thing despite a conga line being nowhere
I mean maybe somehow I haven't capped with snipe
I really doubt that
and tbh I don't want to think about it because that's scary if so
😭
summer steeple
that scot res achievement is interesting
like first things first they check if you're using stickies (any stickies, cause the code doesn't differentiate iirc)
and then every .1 seconds after you kill someone they check if you kill another person with stickies?
oh i didn't scroll down lmao
so basically when you first kill a player it gets the number of stickies you have laid, and then every .1 seconds if you have more stickies you had, it resets
otherwise, it updates the count of stickies to what it is now
so i feel like... if you shoot a sticky right after you det, kill someone with that sticky, and then do that again, you could get the achievement?
but its tight
I feel like if they could get an event for firing that probably would be more consistent to reset the count of kills without firing a sticky
i'm bored so i'm just gonna look at the list of bugged achievements on the tf wiki and see how/why they might happen
daring tiger
oh wow
summer steeple
ok so dead reckoning, sniper achievement for killing a player with an arrow while dead, also works if you kill someone with bleed from the tribalman's shiv
they only check if you killed a player while dead
shiv came out after the achievement so i guess they forgor
potent wolf
not an achievement, but the direct hit contract bonus for mini-critting people doesn't need to be on the direct hit
you can get that bonus without it
daring tiger
so i feel like... if you shoot a sticky right after you det, kill someone with t...
that must be what I did, which almost sounds harder than the proper way to do it
summer steeple
ye the issue seems to lie in the fact that they check every .1 second for that
daring tiger
because I only ever had one sticky out since I kept shooting and detonating them instantly
summer steeple
hm supposedly you can get both of the sniper freezecam taunt achievements with the kukri
wait i think i see lmao
they messed up, and if the weapon you have selected while taunting is a sniper rifle you DONT get the achievement
daring tiger
nice
formal dew
How is the "my incredible career" achievement checked
summer steeple
i'll take a look in a minute
summer steeple
right now i'm looking at death from above, which is a soldier achivement for killing 2 people in a single rocket jump
supposedly you can get it by getting knocked into the air by another player?
potent wolf
I wouldn't be surprised if it just checks if you're in the air because of an explosion
summer steeple
thats the thing tho, it doesn't seem like that
it seems to correctly set the player into the rocket jump state if the player who did the damage is the local player
craggy ridge
How is the "my incredible career" achievement checked
you have to be uncanny
summer steeple
could maybe be interesting to do some testing while looking at the player's conditions and events
i'm not going to tho
but if anyone wants to, i guess keep an eye out for cond 81 and the event rocket_jump
my brilliant career requires you to be in the round the entire time, so you can't join mid round
@formal dew
formal dew
Does the match have to have more than 6 players for the whole match too
formal dew
interesting
summer steeple
oh well the achievement says that
formal dew
Perhaps I need to get good as I only have 8/10
summer steeple
huh the way they check it is interesting
they basically iterate through every player in the game, and if they're on your team and have a score higher than you, you're not the top scorer
i guess i kinda expected the game to just like have an array of players on the scoreboard sorted by score idk
also supposedly you can get the death from above achievement with the grenade taunt kill?
I guess that counts as a rocket jump, makes sense?
potent wolf
i guess i kinda expected the game to just like have an array of players on the s...
There is, it's just part of the scoreboard panel code
summer steeple
the duty bound achievement (kill player with equalizer during RJ) suffers from the same issue as death from above
Geneva Contravention (kill 3 defenseless players after a single round has ended) can be gotten on the losing team, because it only checks if the round is over, and not what team you're on
so you can just taunt kill 3 people lol
potent wolf
lol
summer steeple
for worth a thousand words (freezecam of 21 gun salute) you apparently just need to have the shotgun out and use any taunt
which, looking back on it, goes for LITERALLY EVERY FREEZECAM TAUNT ACHIEVEMENT
as long as you have the right weapon, you just need to taunt after kill
small sirenBOT
summer steeple
also geneva contravention was 5 defenseless players from 2009 (creation) to 2010 before getting changed to 3
but they never changed the icon to say 3
potent wolf
Aren't there quite a few of achievements that have out-of-date icons?
summer steeple
yeah
summer steeple
ok i had to leave for a bit but i'm back now
first things first, a bunch of pyro achievements can be gotten with burning arrows or cow mangler
quite a few of the achievements don't check your class and just check for fire and shit
not gonna go over all of them, but just know that it exists lol
this isn't a bug but just something i wanted to know, the achievement camp fire (kill 3 enemies in a row in the same area) checks the victim's location within 1024 units of the last victim
i think? i always forget about how distance works with square and shit
small sirenBOT
summer steeple
cause its basically distance squared from the 2 victim's location within 1024^2
so i'm pretty sure that means 1024 units
Pyrotechnics (kill 3 enemies in a single ubercharge) specifically only checks for the 3 conditions invulnerable (ubercharge, also given on things like escaping the underworld), invulnerable_wearingoff (the flash effect as its winding down) and critboosted (kritz, crits after capping the flag, etc.)
so its not just ubercharge
but just stock medigun styled ubercharge and crit boosts
Arsonist (destroy 50 engineer buildings) also includes destroying sappers, because they are technically a building and they don't check for that
slender nexus
why is there a gold Mao Zedong in the corner
potent wolf
Arsonist (destroy 50 engineer buildings) also includes destroying sappers, becau...
So you could get it by using homewrecker?
summer steeple
yeah
potent wolf
lol
summer steeple
Attention Getter (ignite 100 enemies with the flare gun) doesn't count on gas passed pyros but does work on darwin's snipers
rare creek
why is there a gold Mao Zedong in the corner
server icon
summer steeple
this is because it gets called by a function which only doesn't get called if the victim is a pyro
in fact, its checked before they even care about afterburn immunity, so i kinda think the darwins is intentional?
potent wolf
this is because it gets called by a function which only doesn't get called if th...
probably a case of "we'll probably never change how this works..."
summer steeple
like fwiw that function also is used for some other achievements like killing target while defending a control point
ok demoman
highland fling (stick jump 2048 units horizontally) supposedly can be earned when sticky jumping as the round ends
potent wolf
I just realised, but the achievement system and the contract/quest/cyoa system are really different lol
summer steeple
but... they do have a check for respawning
or round resetting
so idk about that one chief
potent wolf
I just realised, but the achievement system and the contract/quest/cyoa system a...
I wonder how much effort it would be to convert the achievements to use the contracts system
summer steeple
supposedly caber toss (bound an enemy into the air and kill them before they land) doesn't require you to bounce them? but i'm not sure about that one either
they specifically keep a list of enemies that you have knocked into the air
hm actually
now i'm confused
they check the flags for the player (bitwise) basically by checking if flags & onground
and then if they're grounded add them to the list?
oh i think i see
so the player has to be on the ground, they get added to the list
small sirenBOT
summer steeple
and then if you kill them in the air within 4 seconds of you hitting them on the ground, it counts?
that can't be right
well unless i'm reading this wrong, thats how it works
that is jank af
all the achievements which require you to decapitate as demo don't work with the taunt kills
because they check damage type and the taunt kills all have their own damage type
supposedly only the stock GL works for glasg0wned (kill 25 scouts and pyros with the GL)
but i don't think thats true aside from the loose cannon?
unless they all use different weapon ids, but i don't think they do
small sirenBOT
summer steeple
robbed royal (destroy 100 enemy stickies with the scotres) can be gotten with the quickie
supposedly pipebagged (kill 3 enemies with a single det) doesn't count kills with crits? but that seems like 1000% bullshit
there's no difference between crits and regular gamage in this part of the code
it just checks your class, what weapon the damage was done with, and how many players were killed
i'd love to keep going but unfortunately now i'm getting bored of this lol
reading valve code makes me tired
potent wolf
reading valve code makes me tired
😭
i've been doing that for the past 4 days
it can't be good for me....
astral crow
reading code is bad for you, stop having comprehensive reading skills to truly be free 👍
potent wolf
@next nymph is typing...
crisp cedar
witnessing a discussion where people are thinking they could convince eric smith to bring arena mode as a thing in casual queue
"but it just needs a few fixes!!!" yea and its called koth
crisp cedar
yeah
cursive peak
You can't fix 20+ minute respawns.
potent wolf
we really need more PD maps...
crisp cedar
summer 2023???
are there any good non-event pd maps
on the workshop
cuz hopefully summer maps stay
potent wolf
are there any good non-event pd maps
time to look...
next nymph
<@354711161704546304> is typing...
slander
crisp cedar
or atleast stay til the next summer update
potent wolf
or atleast stay til the next summer update
I'm hoping they just stay permanently
crisp cedar
...if they're good
crisp cedar
pl_wutville but non winter
summer steeple
are there any good non-event pd maps
atom smash
and i mean, that map is already proven to be good enough to get into the game
alongside being done by a mapping vet who has multiple maps in the game and clearly knows what valve likes lol
potent wolf
for halloween at least
?
potent wolf
hm
summer steeple
right cause we got to the point where mappers realized that making non event maps was not worth trying so they just made event maps from scratch
formal dew
👀
summer steeple
he's always bought map stamps
potent wolf
dedicated
summer steeple
i guess a little extra thing to give back to mappers after adding it to the game
i don't actually know if valve gives mappers any money outside of stamps
they probably do
formal dew
we should be able to stack strange filters so you can get an item name with over 500 characters
wintry marlin
we should be able to stack strange filters so you can get an item name with over...
sounds like trying to filter coffee back into water
mfw
use a comp strange filter
stack it with badwater strange fitler
competitive water filter
summer steeple
when are they going to add strange JI weapons
wintry marlin
tomorrow™️
potent wolf
competitive water filter
badwater pro?
potent wolf
Badwater Pro exists and is great, especially V9.
I know, thats why i mentioned it
cursive peak
There's also a pl_downward.
summer steeple
i'm surprised that of all the places you found it you found the feedback page for it
and not like the forum page or download
potent wolf
I can't find anything but the feedpack page
summer steeple
bruh
wintry marlin
goodwater was so good that it had to be deleted
to not overshadow badwater
canon
wintry marlin
my work in progress name for my map was hellwater
but now I'm thinking of it being floodfort
or floodport.
I feel like playing terraria rn, later ig
summer steeple
hmmm
so for my vscript bot i want to have like
AIModes
and in theory, enum would be perfect for this
BUT
because this is meant to be generic, what if someone changes the enums around
potent wolf
because this is meant to be generic, what if someone changes the enums around
do a string -> enum lookup?
idk what the problem would be with changing enum ordering
small sirenBOT
summer steeple
ok i think i might be misunderstanding how enums work
for some reason i was thinking like
if i did a switch case like
switch(enum)
case cring:
case fard:
case shid:
that would get essentially turned into switch(enum)
case 1:
case 2:
case 3:
and if someone swapped the enum around the numbers would get swapped and it would do the wrong thing
potent wolf
well, they would get swapped around, but they would be in the right order
summer steeple
wdym?
potent wolf
well, if you change the ordering around, the stuff would also change in the cases
so they would be correct
summer steeple
oh ok
potent wolf
you're not really matching for an int thats just an implementation detail
summer steeple
and i guess also that will account for if an enum is missing
small sirenBOT
potent wolf
and i guess also that will account for if an enum is missing
most likely, yeah. i'm not sure if squirrel has a default: case
it probably does though
potent wolf
yeah, just catch that and throw an error about it if you want to be nice 🤷♀️
otherwise, it shouldn't matter
summer steeple
ye that was my plan but i overthought it lol
potent wolf
lol
summer steeple
aghhhhhh
I was hoping that I could like
have a variable which holds onto which enum to check
but apparently i'm not allowed to
the only think i can do with enums is get values from them
I can't store them, or store references to them
potent wolf
You're not allowed to pass enums around???
summer steeple
it doesn't seem like it
potent wolf
the fuck
next nymph
what language is this
potent wolf
potent wolf
what it looks so much nicer for me
potent wolf
rip
summer steeple
ok someone in the tf2m discord figured it out
its fucking stupid
::enum2 <- getconsttable().enum1
potent wolf
???????