Team Fortress 2 Megathread - winter is the most chill time of year

[wintry marlin]

you can't cancel old sandman stun

[paper sluice]

surprise attack

[wintry marlin]

right?

[hybrid cloud]

phlog isnt op its just dumb cheese

[spare obsidian]

i remenber this lol

[summer steeple]

ok then they should encourage pyros to actually not taunt in front of the enemy team

[spare obsidian]

you can be flying and the stun can still be on

[left sand]

ok but literally it seems no one here knows what phlog used to do

[summer steeple]

the uber just encourages players to just use it wherever

even if it’s a terrible idea

[wintry marlin]

it used to not have uber afaik

but beyond that I don't remember

[left sand]

the uber is completely fine the pyro dies in 0 seconds after its over

[spare obsidian]

but againt the community is a b*** when it comes to balancing sometimes they hate objectively better changes lol

but that's my 5 cents

[hybrid cloud]

i rememba

[left sand]

if you cant kill the pyro standing still then thats like your problem

[summer steeple]

that’s not really the point i was making though…

[hybrid cloud]

wonder how that amby suggestion wouldve worked

[spare obsidian]

literally gas passer outside of MVM is so useless and in MVM is a try hard tour 99999 user trigger

[summer steeple]

specifically i feel like the uber is functionally useless except to clown on stupid players

[wintry marlin]

complaining about phlog mostly comes from when people don't expect it when they walk forward and get instadead around the corner.

but that's like all of the ubers

[summer steeple]

you either taunt in the middle of a team, and then roll the dice to see if you die

[wintry marlin]

and all of the kritzkriegs

[summer steeple]

or taunt around a corner and there’s no reason for it to exist

[small siren]

*or taunt around a

corner and there’s no reason

for it to exist*

- fiend

[spare obsidian]

also gass paser is so niche in usage in casual lol

[small siren]

*also gass paser

is so niche in usage in

casual lol*

- Krispy

[summer steeple]

all it does is exist to have a dice roll and encourage players to do the former

[spare obsidian]

just makes pyros being able to be burned lol

[hybrid cloud]

gas passer is a bad weapon because pyro is not a useful combat class

[wintry marlin]

phlog is not problematic, it's just a different dynamic that doesn't play like an fps game

[summer steeple]

afterburn from any damage is a nice upside tbh

[wintry marlin]

you're waiting out their uber like it's dota 2

[hybrid cloud]

sniper does it better

minicrits > afterburn

[spare obsidian]

but sniper isn't a balanced class

[left sand]

fiend, its literally there because taunting for 4 seconds is a death sentence because of sniper and spy

[summer steeple]

can you not post an epilepsy gif

[left sand]

or really any class

pyro had 90% dmg resist before

and healed

to full

then they changed it to uber

its way better now

[summer steeple]

i just… don’t see why it’s needed, where are you taunting that you’ll be killed by a sniper

for backstab, just face away form a wall

[left sand]

literally people will walk

and find you

its just like

[spare obsidian]

tbf you can be good with any class is just the community is taking copium so hard that they can't stand how a stock player is dominathing a pub so easy

[left sand]

way too punishing to taunt

[summer steeple]

why are you completely in front of your team taunting with the phlog

[left sand]

thats not what i said

but people can move

with the movement keys

[wintry marlin]

is the problem of phlog that people use it defensively or offensively?

[left sand]

or blast jumping

[summer steeple]

but… there’s a team

[spare obsidian]

that's literally one bad mistake lol

[hybrid cloud]

the problem with phlog is that its a crit gimmick

[summer steeple]

if you’re alone taunting with the phlog… why

that seems like a skill issue

[spare obsidian]

can't that apply with other weapons too?

[hybrid cloud]

change it to like a laser rifle or a plasma gun

[left sand]

there is literally no scenario where you are gonna taunt and not die, thats why taunting after kill is such BM

because its like you dont care

its utterly deranged to suggest that taunting is perfectly safe to do in TF2

[summer steeple]

like i feel like there should be that dynamic of taunting further back to be safer vs having more crit time

[spare obsidian]

except if is 2fort

[wintry marlin]

taunting around corner and then jumping on the objective with the phlog is the best way to farm kills, works on koth maps best I believe.

and some payload maps.

[left sand]

youd just die to random bullshit and be frustrated

literally removing the uber doesnt solve any problems

[summer steeple]

i would rather it to the dice roll we have now

[hybrid cloud]

pyro has no real approach options anyway

[spare obsidian]

you know heavy is also the easiest class to use, you just... shot things lol

[left sand]

there is no dice roll

[summer steeple]

there’s no risk in phlog

[left sand]

youre like

[hybrid cloud]

the risk in phlog is playing pyro

[summer steeple]

unless you push directly into a team and taunt

it punishes extremely stupid plays and that’s it

[left sand]

i have no idea what youre talking about at this point

[wintry marlin]

maybe phlog needs a louder audio que

[next nymph]

i taunt after every kill in tr_walkway

[wintry marlin]

like elden ring bosses

when they about to one shot you

[spare obsidian]

death ringer

moment

[potent wolf]

And then die right after

[wintry marlin]

sekiro red symbol warning

legit

it gives you warning that you should dodge or run

[next nymph]

i just imagine the look on the bot's face and it makes it all worth it

[spare obsidian]

there's either good players or bad players

[summer steeple]

like all i see in the phlog rn is a dice roll for taunting in an enemy team and seeing if they have a brain, or taunting in an area where the uber doesn’t fucking matter

the taunt in the middle of the team completely stops gameplay for the duration of the taunt as the enemy team stands there and waits

[paper sluice]

fiend is saying pyro shouldnt have uber with phlog taunting because if you arent a lobotmite and taunt in front of the team or near enemies who know you're there its still viable
dont taunt in sightlines and make sure youre up against a wall while taunting
heavies can eat a sandwich without dying because they position themselves correctly
the uber encourages stupid gameplay and punishes the stupid players the pyro is playing against

[wintry marlin]

I feel like the uber is not supposed to do anything strategically or offensively

[next nymph]

gamesense issue

[spare obsidian]

skill issue tbh

[wintry marlin]

it's just that it's there so you don't get killed while taunting in cover

basically you're a fnaf jumpscare for people who check corners

[summer steeple]

bringing up sandwich is a good point

because it does have that heal over time in case you get attacked

[hybrid cloud]

again i think the crit gimmick is like the entire problem here

why does it exist

[summer steeple]

but i feel like more often than not i don’t see heavies getting attacked during it

[next nymph]

freddy fazbear pizza map when? @summer steeple get on it

[spare obsidian]

wouldn't the kirtskrit would is also gimmicky? lol

[hybrid cloud]

no?

[summer steeple]

already exists

[paper sluice]

great blue

[spare obsidian]

you trade uber with crits

[wintry marlin]

great blue made that map

[next nymph]

:0

[hybrid cloud]

you have to build for 30 seconds and pocket a competent team mate

pyro also has to build but it's not hugely stressful if you know what flares to use

[wintry marlin]

maybe we should redesign the way phlog gains mmph

[next nymph]

phlog gains mmph by taunting with it

[summer steeple]

phlog should just be completely reworked tbh

[wintry marlin]

perhaps the head system like the eyelander

[spare obsidian]

is easy to build if you know how the janky ass particle base damage works lol

[summer steeple]

it’s just not really good and only exists to be annoying

[unborn pecan]

phlog is so sexy

[hybrid cloud]

phlog shoots little plasma orbs that explode on contact

alt fire like shoots a gauss laser

boom phlog fixed

[summer steeple]

everyone complains about it but it sucks omega ass

[next nymph]

phlog rework:
+100% damage
-100% ammo

[wintry marlin]

wait

[spare obsidian]

gass passer outside of MVM really needs a rework frankly lol

[wintry marlin]

what if phlog legit worked like a lightsaber

[hybrid cloud]

things dont have to be viable to be annoying

[wintry marlin]

like, it's a cylinder of fire that doesn't have travel time

you just extend a giant hurtbox infront of you when you click fire

[spare obsidian]

idk, is like hating a good sniper lol

[small siren]

*you just extend a

giant hurtbox infront of

you when you click fir*

- Scylorn the Jungle

[hybrid cloud]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EdxuohcdbU

[next nymph]

yeah tbh i think weapons that are bad but bullshit are worse than good but enjoyable. Because the latter is just what we call a meta weapon in a healthy meta thats enjoyable to play

[hybrid cloud]

bad but bs can describe pyro as a whole tbh

the phlog is just an extension of that

[spare obsidian]

is more funny seeing how stock players stomps pubs to the point that makes sweaty try hards cry

[hybrid cloud]

no?

[wintry marlin]

also, this exists as a heavy weapon concept already

some invasion minigun thought to function this way I think

an industrial laser drill

[hybrid cloud]

what are you talking about btw

because if its like stock pyro then any player worth their salt is gonna crush them

[wintry marlin]

I would want to see a heavy laser gun tbh.

[spare obsidian]

knowing how projectiles acts with hig ping

[hybrid cloud]

either pyro or heavy should get some laser weapon

[spare obsidian]

uhh

they need to continue that futuristic weapon style tbh

[wintry marlin]

pyro will get a lightsaber torch, heavy will become a stormtrooper, bet

[hybrid cloud]

engineer short circuit is also a viable option to just turn into an electric beam

[spare obsidian]

how about the TFC Rocket Flame?

oh wait

that's the dragons fury

[next nymph]

maybe "they should give demo a glock" was misguided, this whole time we should've been giving it to pyro

[crisp cedar]

okay

so

wheres what i want

[hybrid cloud]

scorch shot is the incendiary cannon tbh

[crisp cedar]

i mean

heres what i want

i want normal airblast on dragons fury

and i want sniper rifle removed

huntsman only

[spare obsidian]

keep dreaming bud

[wintry marlin]

and remove shield bubble from wrangler

[spare obsidian]

because i'm dreaming too

[hybrid cloud]

normal airblast on the fury is not the point of the fury tho

[small siren]

*normal airblast on

the fury is not the point

of the fury tho*

- Pathulhu

[crisp cedar]

i dont care

i just want dragons fury with normal airblast

[hybrid cloud]

just let me shoot in between airblasts that's what it needs

[spare obsidian]

dragons fury is a high risk high reward weapon

[hybrid cloud]

and give the weapon like a translucent model

[crisp cedar]

no its a high cringe high bluepill weapon

[spare obsidian]

i see a game sense issue

[wintry marlin]

I imagine dragon's fury like an actual dragon, can easily belch up fireballs but puff of smoke is like a cough

[hybrid cloud]

i think making the fireball a flashbang that's only represented by a static particle effect is like

bad

[wintry marlin]

tbh dragon's fury is probably based on komodo dragons.

[hybrid cloud]

it should have a physical model with a fire trail

and then remove the dynamic lights

[spare obsidian]

tbh if you're supportive pyro but you want airblast use the Manmelter's secondary mode

along side of the dragons fury

[hybrid cloud]

if youre playing "support" pyro why pick the fury

go degreaser / stock

[wintry marlin]

I don't like that df is a flashbang so I use it with pyrovision.

[next nymph]

@summer steeple i think you should make a map called pl_politics (the pl is for payload and politics). It featres the red team as the republicans and the blue team as the democrats. And its like a metaphor for american politics but also a payload map but its kinda like both

[spare obsidian]

i wish they use that dragon skin for the dragon's fury

[summer steeple]

it should be koth, whoever has the point has control of the house

king of the house

[spare obsidian]

also how would you guys balance CTF?

[steel orbit]

Many people feel excluded when you refer to a group of people as "Guys".
Some alternatives if you meant to refer to explicitly men: men, dudes
Some alternatives if you meant to refer to people in general: all, everyone, friends, folks, people

[wintry marlin]

don't need to

[summer steeple]

i would replace it with rd

[wintry marlin]

landfall

[next nymph]

but red side is gerrymandered (faster rollouts)

[hybrid cloud]

replace it with player destruction and convert arena maps to pd

put it in alt modes where people cant see it

[next nymph]

replace it with ctf

[spare obsidian]

i think the simplies solution is giving them a time limit lol

[small siren]

*i think the simplies

solution is giving them

a time limit lol*

- Krispy

[hybrid cloud]

no more new players rotting their brains on 2fort

[spare obsidian]

is so rare to see in TF2 now days a suddent death round

[wintry marlin]

ctf with time limit existed already

people hated it lol

[spare obsidian]

what people don't hate

[hybrid cloud]

they took it out because people realized that horrifyingly, they would have to vote for the map again after the round ended

[spare obsidian]

at this point lol

[wintry marlin]

some people even complain about powerhouse having a time limit

[crisp cedar]

turn every ctf map into a player destruction map

because ctf isnt made for tf2

[hybrid cloud]

arena maps are better suited tbh

[spare obsidian]

yeah but uhh good luck finding a full loby in arena mode

[crisp cedar]

in a game where 9 classes have different jobs ctf just doesnt work

[next nymph]

they should remove the time limit from trade maps

[wintry marlin]

arena got removed from the game for some reason

[spare obsidian]

i mean in TFC and quake TF did work

why in TF2 expecifically doesn't work?

[hybrid cloud]

its not that they have different jobs its that the maps we have now favor specific jobs

[crisp cedar]

because theyre not quake?

[next nymph]

turn every ctf map into x10 randomizer 2fort skial

[crisp cedar]

tfc and qtf are very alike

theyre nothing like what tf2 is

[wintry marlin]

I don't think ctf ever worked great in any source-adjacent game

keep it in call of duty or battlefield, thanks

[crisp cedar]

either turn every ctf map into player destruction or just add a time limit to ctf

[next nymph]

counterstrike is like ctf

[spare obsidian]

tbh they should make Domination has an official gamemode

[hybrid cloud]

it worked in older tf games because there was way more emphasis on advanced movement but in tf2 where things are streamlined and more cramped together and also engineer exists it cant really work that well

[wintry marlin]

ctf works in halo

[crisp cedar]

but halo is halo

[hybrid cloud]

ctf just favors defenders too much

[crisp cedar]

halo isnt tf2

[wintry marlin]

but it also works in dark souls, the halo mod.

[spare obsidian]

in most of the maps?

[next nymph]

they should fix ctf by making scout literally useless at fighting but good at grabbing the flag

[hybrid cloud]

yes

[crisp cedar]

anyways

[spare obsidian]

so its a map to map basis issue?

[crisp cedar]

player destruction is the process that made the ideal gamemode

[small siren]

*player destruction

is the process that made the

ideal gamemode*

- rayne

[crisp cedar]

we went from ctf to rd then to pd

[next nymph]

ctf_turbine_pro is supposed to be not thay bad

[hybrid cloud]

its not map to map when there's like 6 maps and they all feel the same

[crisp cedar]

altohugh

guys

[spare obsidian]

how about neutral ctf? that exist, but nobody has use it lol

[crisp cedar]

tfc

has a bunch of ctf variants

[wintry marlin]

literally doomsday

nobody plays that ever

[next nymph]

tfc is itself a permutation of ctf

[crisp cedar]

reverse capture the flag

[wintry marlin]

and I need achievements

[crisp cedar]

and

variant capture the flag

[hybrid cloud]

wasnt control points in tfc just really fast one sided ctf

[next nymph]

the flag capture

[wintry marlin]

nobody plays special delivery unless it's halloween

[spare obsidian]

yep they where

[hybrid cloud]

where a scout could get to the end in 10 seconds and end everything

[small siren]

*where a scout could get

to the end in 10 seconds

and end everything*

- Pathulhu

[spare obsidian]

yeah lol

[wintry marlin]

special delivery is the superior ctf

[spare obsidian]

matches in TFC are wild in time lol

[next nymph]

what are peoples thoughts on payload race

[hybrid cloud]

anyways i agree with rayne replace ctf with pd

[wintry marlin]

but there is literally only a single fucking map in the entire game that is special delivery

[spare obsidian]

choke heaven

in the maps that uses it

[crisp cedar]

control points in tfc used to be

you carry the flag to the enemy control point

capture time is instant

[hybrid cloud]

yea

exactly

[spare obsidian]

i mean that also has the same issues has tf2 lol

[crisp cedar]

no

?

[hybrid cloud]

carry flag to enemy base and end things instantly if you know how to play scout

[spare obsidian]

i mean if i ever want to make ctf better i would just redesign the gamemode and maps

[next nymph]

they should make ctf but opposite you take your flag from your base and try and get it to the enemy base

[wintry marlin]

we already have special delivery, we just need more maps to give it a chance

[hybrid cloud]

honestly would still be bad

[spare obsidian]

how about territory control? lol

[hybrid cloud]

you'd need to engi proof the flag pickup zones without making the class feel useless

[crisp cedar]

dude

[next nymph]

honestly i dont want your honesty if it will discredit my ideas

[crisp cedar]

special delivery

ok

hot tage

[hybrid cloud]

and its too much effort

[crisp cedar]

hot take

[wintry marlin]

reversing the ctf is how payload cp was made

[crisp cedar]

special delivery is a sleeper gamemode

[spare obsidian]

everyone remembers hydro right?

right?

[crisp cedar]

special delivery is actually good

like i like special delivery

[next nymph]

i like special delivery because i dont have to do the objective like hightower, except in hightower i do the objective to troll

[hybrid cloud]

based

actually kinda sad however

[spare obsidian]

how about Payload? lol

[hybrid cloud]

doing objectives in objective based video game = trolling now

[crisp cedar]

aint playing that shit unless it has stopwatch

also

i love a/d

[hybrid cloud]

i like a/d in theory

[spare obsidian]

shh people would complain about it lol

[left sand]

flag should give a leader and aura buff and you cant cap if the other team has your flag (touch to return)

[spare obsidian]

that's literally what Tag gamemode is

[left sand]

this encouraged people to have large team fight engagements around the flag

[crisp cedar]

player destruction

leader

[left sand]

yes but different route

[hybrid cloud]

i dont really enjoy more than 3 or so a/d maps

[spare obsidian]

i mean what do you gain with changing the gamemode if the ctf maps doesn't differ from each other?

[wintry marlin]

discussing different gamemode gimmicks is describing a james bond movie

[spare obsidian]

like hot take: ctf maps needs to be bigger lol

[left sand]

you cant change the maps

thats not realistic

if you want changed maps you make a new gamemode

[wintry marlin]

hotter take: well needs to be smaller

[left sand]

ex. mannpower

[spare obsidian]

that's literally 3wave

[crisp cedar]

mannpower was the shit

...well yeah

[hybrid cloud]

i did not care for mannpower

it felt like someone's sourcemod

[next nymph]

they should replace ctf with tc

[left sand]

krispy you know youre not contributing when you recall random facts about the gamemode

[spare obsidian]

[hybrid cloud]

"tf2 isnt quake" fellers when they add threewave ctf into the game:

[spare obsidian]

they clearly need to add desert bus map

[left sand]

mannpower is so amazing and works perfect in tf2

[next nymph]

ctf fix: add quad damage powerup to the center of the map

[hybrid cloud]

its probably just me then i cant really get behind powerups as a concept

[crisp cedar]

hey

guys

arent we forgetting something

[spare obsidian]

ah yes

passball

[crisp cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/detective-conan-soccer-ball-flying-coming-at-you-action-gif-19597825

THE BEST

GAMEMODE

not really but

i tihnk

[next nymph]

we are forgetting trade minecraft

[crisp cedar]

pass time is really interesting

[hybrid cloud]

engineer camping the game mode

[spare obsidian]

LMAO

[hybrid cloud]

(its all modes)

[next nymph]

it really does pass the time

[crisp cedar]

i wish they worked on pass time more i like it

[left sand]

ctf fix, add small AI-controlled bots which spawn from your flag every 30 seconds and travel to the enemy flag, attacking anything in their way

[wintry marlin]

to stop those bots in their path add objectives along the way, like big structures that fire at them

[left sand]

players can kill these bots for gold they can use to augment their character

[crisp cedar]

this is what i think

[summer steeple]

call it CD

creep destruction

[crisp cedar]

sounds like bounty mode

[wintry marlin]

super monday night combat had this

[left sand]

call it bounty mode

[crisp cedar]

this is just

[wintry marlin]

that game is so dead.

[spare obsidian]

they should add vsh gamemode

so arena doesn't fell death

[left sand]

they did

[crisp cedar]

vscript

[hybrid cloud]

i dont think koth has a single good map tbh

[crisp cedar]

my friend

[spare obsidian]

spawing halloween bosses doesn't count lol

[crisp cedar]

what

youre crazy

viaduct is a classic

[hybrid cloud]

2fort is also a classic

[crisp cedar]

its not a good classic

[wintry marlin]

tf2 in alternate universe

[crisp cedar]

dustbowl is the greatest classic

HEY

i wonder if koth 2fort would work

[hybrid cloud]

there is probably an actual koth 2fort on the internet rn

[crisp cedar]

probably

[wintry marlin]

not joking

[next nymph]

my fiancee's critique:

• payload needs to be the only one in best
• mannpower overestimated
• sleeping on medieval attack/defend

[crisp cedar]

ill be honest

[hybrid cloud]

https://gamebanana.com/mods/72648

[crisp cedar]

the worst thing about 2fort

is that fucking bridge

[spare obsidian]

I LOVE WHEN MERRASMUSS SPAWNS FOR THE 50 TIME

[crisp cedar]

i hate that when you fall

into the water

[wintry marlin]

okay this is exactly what I was thinking how koth 2fort should be made

[hybrid cloud]

the bridge makes 2fort thats the thing

[crisp cedar]

you cant get back up you need to go through the sewers

the bridge is fine but i hate the sewers

[wintry marlin]

glad someone took the idea of removing the roof

[next nymph]

it literally has railing in the bridge

[hybrid cloud]

there's also like a 2fort pro

[spare obsidian]

WH real?

[hybrid cloud]

that has ledges that let you climb the bridge

or to the bridge, sorry

https://gamebanana.com/mods/70487

[spare obsidian]

they should re-do the layout

[wintry marlin]

okay this is hilariously bad now

[crisp cedar]

you will SHIT your PANTS when you find out about this

viaduct has a non event version

[next nymph]

they should make the bridge ten times longer

[spare obsidian]

🙀

[wintry marlin]

do they realize that those walls are blocking the like, entire you know, plot of the map, like it's being split by a channel where water passes through?

now both sides are just empty of water

[next nymph]

its called koth_product

[wintry marlin]

it's a fuckin pool

they turned sewers into a pool

[left sand]

i hate product

its like so bad it ruins the whole point of the map which is to spam engy buildings in the corner

[next nymph]

2fort but the bridge and the water is replaced with an infinite void that you cannot escape from

[left sand]

and camp the point

[hybrid cloud]

i have never played product but since it's the not snow version its probably better than viaduct

snow maps are ass

[left sand]

why hasnt anyone made proldfront

[hybrid cloud]

i dont think the plot matters

[next nymph]

i like product because it ruins the whole point of the map which is to spam engy buildings in the corner

[hybrid cloud]

you could easily say the mercs revamped the map or something

[next nymph]

where are the pro versions of mvm maps

[wintry marlin]

the mercs are fucking stupid and are destroying the environment then

[crisp cedar]

OKAY

another

thing

i think snowplow is underrated

[left sand]

tf2 needs to add 1 way walls as an available map mechanic

[wintry marlin]

they are terrible architects

[left sand]

so players can place sentries behind them

[wintry marlin]

that's why there's only 1 class that knows how to build

[hybrid cloud]

man wait till you hear what they do with bombs in carts

[next nymph]

they are when oob exploits happen

[wintry marlin]

and chooses to build guns

[left sand]

you should be able to place them down

[next nymph]

new engie melee??

[left sand]

add it to the wrangler

it needs a buff

[next nymph]

the wrangler shield is replaced with a one way wall permanently

[wintry marlin]

legit, what if wrangler had a medic mvm shield instead of a 360 bubble

[next nymph]

what if wrangler instakilled you

[left sand]

it should have that and also depleting the shield should disable the sentry for 30 seconds and the engy cant move or switch weapons

[hybrid cloud]

the wrangler needs 4x resistance and like it need to be bigger so you can have a little bubble for your merc-y werc-ies to hide under

[wintry marlin]

meaning that wrangler dies to stickies but doesn't die to direct hit or heavies

bingo

[hybrid cloud]

finally a balanced engi secondary

[next nymph]

they should increase the size of the wrangler shield to be the whole map

[crisp cedar]

they should let you overcharge a sentry making it fire way faster but it blows up after like 4 seconds

[wintry marlin]

exploding buildings should do damage then

[crisp cedar]

to allies

[wintry marlin]

kill spies before they can sap, lol

[next nymph]

wrangler gets one shot in and then the sentry rebels against your command and starts shooting you

[hybrid cloud]

this was a thing in older tf games

[left sand]

heavy should get diabetes whenever he eats

[wintry marlin]

having a secondary that makes building explosions do damage and knockback would make sentry jumping with gunslinger fuckin cool

[hybrid cloud]

engineers just had a c4 whenever he decided a dispenser was useless to them

[next nymph]

new heavy mechanic: have to count calories and spend time working out to balance the cheat day dalokahs

[left sand]

pyro should have a fuel tank on his back

[crisp cedar]

what if they finish cactus canyon for the summer update

[left sand]

that you can shoot

and it explodes

[next nymph]

pyro should have mesothelioma

[crisp cedar]

that is sooooo half life alyx

[left sand]

dealing 400 dmg to his team

[crisp cedar]

ok but

[wintry marlin]

since this place has so many gamemode ideas why hasn't anyone made their own tf2 yet?

[crisp cedar]

kinda unbalanced

like

[left sand]

i did

[crisp cedar]

i hate how unbalanced that is

[next nymph]

team comtress 2

[wintry marlin]

except for that one

[crisp cedar]

dont need to anymore

vscript exists

the days of tf2c are over

[hybrid cloud]

im stupid

[wintry marlin]

go make overwatch 3

[next nymph]

tf2 is the overwatch killer

[hybrid cloud]

no coding knowledge no patience im literally a c tier ideas guy

[left sand]

scout should have a stamina bar and you can do parkour and run but have limited stamina and then after you move at heavy speed

[next nymph]

be the change you want to see in the world

[crisp cedar]

pyro should get a bread monster secondar

y

it should work like snarks in hl1

[next nymph]

has to do a taunt to regain your breath

[crisp cedar]

hahahah

inhaler secondary

[wintry marlin]

I am the change and the world itself

[crisp cedar]

that instantly regains stamina on taunt

[left sand]

soldier should have no legs to be lore accurate

[next nymph]

i am become change, be the of worlds

[hybrid cloud]

make the gas passer like the mario sunshine water movement for pyro and have him crouch slide on his own gasoline and then light up the trail after he's done

[left sand]

playing demoman should render the world as an undertale type game (he has 1 eye like sans)

[wintry marlin]

I am become world, seer of change

[next nymph]

they should add ronald reagan as a class to be accurate to the time period

[crisp cedar]

alt fire with dalokohs bar should disguise heavy as demoman

[left sand]

make the gas passer explode and have 4 charges which you can reload from a reserve of 20

[next nymph]

what

[left sand]

and make the arc straight instead of curved

[hybrid cloud]

they should build a class out of that tbh

[crisp cedar]

what

heavy smears his face with chocolate

[next nymph]

they didnt use chocolate for blackface

[wintry marlin]

pyro should turn into capybara

[crisp cedar]

no but the tf2 mercs are dumb enough to fall for spy's disguises

which are just paper masks

so

[wintry marlin]

he's good at acting

[crisp cedar]

alt fire on dalokohs bar disguises you as a friendly demoman

[next nymph]

they arent racist rayne, they know that heavy with chocolate smeared on his face isnt the demoman

[wintry marlin]

spy operates on fnaf logic

[crisp cedar]

its the

uh

[wintry marlin]

the animatronics can't see you're human when you put on the mask

[hybrid cloud]

wow i didnt know justin trudeau played tf2

[crisp cedar]

its like the 70s man

[wintry marlin]

and also, illusion disks

[hybrid cloud]

thats crazy

[wintry marlin]

fnaf lore

illusion disks make dead ringer possible

[crisp cedar]

the only class i believe is genuinely not racist is soldier

[next nymph]

true do you think the administrator had opinions on the civil rights movement

[crisp cedar]

the least racist atleast

[left sand]

they should give engineer a new PDA which gives up his 4 traditional buildings for 4 new ones: floor, ramp, wall and roof

[crisp cedar]

yes

[hybrid cloud]

soldier is the most racist

[crisp cedar]

give him a pickaxe too

[hybrid cloud]

like no joke he probably is

[crisp cedar]

no

hes the least racist

[left sand]

he can place these down in rapid succession, connecting them to any solid material or other building piece

[crisp cedar]

not joking i actually believe this

[next nymph]

i guarantee you that miss pauling is the number 1 racist

[wintry marlin]

are you srs or jk rayne

[hybrid cloud]

he hates other people for the country they came from

[left sand]

the most racist is medic

[crisp cedar]

thats not racism

[wintry marlin]

that's patriotism

[crisp cedar]

objection your honor

my client has lead poisoning

[wintry marlin]

have you played hotline miami?

[hybrid cloud]

my favorite thing about soldier discourse online is seeing gay soldier x engi / demo / whoever else art and calling him a scrungly meow meow boy, because knowing soldier if he were alive today he would be voting republican

[next nymph]

medic contributed to the discriminatory practices in medicine 😲

[wintry marlin]

soldier is not real

you imply that he died

[left sand]

spy should be able to shoot lights, disabling them for the remainder of the match. while in shadows, spy remains cloaked regardless of his cloak meter

[wintry marlin]

spy should become a stealth archer

[crisp cedar]

they should give spy permanent invisibility at level 25

for a talent choice

[next nymph]

spy should be able to call scout's mother at any point in the match and embarass scout so much aha

[crisp cedar]

attacking doesnt take out of invis

[summer steeple]

honestly that would probably be a good taunt, calling scouts mom

[left sand]

but how will he be able to defend the flag from the bots

[crisp cedar]

he wont

[hybrid cloud]

"off to visit your mother" exists in the game

[crisp cedar]

he doesnt draw aggro

[hybrid cloud]

so its like slightly true

[left sand]

and wouldnt it be op

because like

[next nymph]

they will update vac

[crisp cedar]

no

because they removed it

[next nymph]

what are people's thoughts on the sniper

[left sand]

he would be able to kill saxton hale and get the revival banner for basically nothing

[hybrid cloud]

i think he should pee in my mouth

[left sand]

especially with the backscatter

[hybrid cloud]

i regret everything

i regret holding a keyboard

[next nymph]

@unborn pecan @potent wolf heart this

[wintry marlin]

will drinking sniper's piss give you superpowers?

[unborn pecan]

Brody approves this message

[left sand]

ok hear me out. sniper should get an ability where he can mark any enemy as an assassination target

[next nymph]

i think they should buff sniper's turn speed

[left sand]

and if the enemy is still in vision after 5 seconds, they instantly die

[summer steeple]

sniper should get a UAV when he kills a bunch of people without dying

[next nymph]

little op, they should just take a thousand damage

[left sand]

sniper should get a new secondary called white jarate

it covers an area for 15 seconds, slowing any enemy who enters and dealing 15 damage per second

[wintry marlin]

I think it's going to be pretty buggy with source engine limitations

checks for line of sight don't work that good

given that it's like AI

they lose vision of you so easily

[next nymph]

white jarate kinda gross, imagine just having that much infection pus

[crisp cedar]

okay how about this

[rare creek]

sniper should get a Tactical Nuke which automatically wins the game for your team and kills the entire enemy team whenever you get a 25 killstreak

[crisp cedar]

medic should get a medigun replacement

[next nymph]

jaraynete

[wintry marlin]

god will smite you for your vile hubris

[crisp cedar]

so the medigun actually just heals allies in an aoe

[wintry marlin]

cough

where was I

[crisp cedar]

and when you uber you spawn a sentry

that shoots enemies

but the sentry is only up for the duration of the uber

you get no invuln

[rare creek]

i think sniper should get a new weapon called The Original

[next nymph]

they should make a medigun that heals the target and builds up a special ability that can make the target invulnerable for a short time

[left sand]

medic should have a medigun which heals buildings only

[rare creek]

• noscope headshots

• fires tracer rounds
  (not centered on the screen)

[hybrid cloud]

isn't building healing in the code

[wintry marlin]

• pyro

[left sand]

and gives team mates ammo

[left sand]

in invasion yeah

[wintry marlin]

exclusively buildings and pyro

[left sand]

not tf2

[next nymph]

i think sniper should get a new weapon called The Original

• shoots rockets from the center of the screen

[crisp cedar]

they should give scout a weapon that makes him invisible as long as he stands still

[wintry marlin]

because pyros sit around buildings defending them

gotta make sure every member of this tower defense supports each other

[hybrid cloud]

oh i didn't know
i recall seeing some sort of custom medibeam in some sigsegv video but it's been a long time

probably modded

[crisp cedar]

and if scout leaves invisiblity with an attack he crits

[next nymph]

they should give scout another drink secondary called Four Loko and it sends him into cardiac arrest

[hoary geyser]

are you dudes sad over tf2 shutting down on March 1st, 2023?

[summer steeple]

iirc that isn't modded but i don't think we know what the particle was used for

[rare creek]

concept art

[wintry marlin]

are you girls sad that tf2

[summer steeple]

could've been healing buildings, could've maybe been just for robots in mvm, who knows

[next nymph]

yeah tf2 makes me sad

[rare creek]

yeah tf2 makes m

i only play chess

[hybrid cloud]

that was probably it yea

[potent wolf]

yeah tf2

[wintry marlin]

literally shedding my skin rn

it's crispy like chicken

[next nymph]

how do you respond to this:

d3

[hybrid cloud]

bro they should like add a double barrel shotgun to tf2

[rare creek]

Ke7

[wintry marlin]

that's a felony

[next nymph]

i resign

[hoary geyser]

they should remove guns from tf2, they're too violent

[crisp cedar]

they need a proximity gun in tf2

[wintry marlin]

scout would never do that

[next nymph]

good match

[crisp cedar]

a stickybomb launcher

but youre not able to manually det it

it only ever automatically detonates when an enemy walks near it

[wintry marlin]

the ATF would like to know your location

[crisp cedar]

destroying the stickies with gunfire or something blows them up regardless

and uhm

[hybrid cloud]

tf2c mine layer

[crisp cedar]

give sniper

a sniper rifle

[rare creek]

chess update

[crisp cedar]

that bounces its shot

once

so you can corner snipe

[rare creek]

they should add chess to tf2

its a hat

that has a chess board

[crisp cedar]

they did

but

were not allowed to talk about that

[rare creek]

and you get it in genuine quality by buying the irl tf2 chess set

[rare creek]

what happened

[next nymph]

they should add tf2 to chess

[wintry marlin]

once I finish devboxxing my tf2 map who else wants to join the decoration effort

[hoary geyser]

the incident

[hoary geyser]

no they should focus on fixing the bugs first

[next nymph]

what is the map

[wintry marlin]

payload

[crisp cedar]

oh how lovely

[summer steeple]

ooh i would like to get some art pass practice, i haven't really done much of anything with it

[crisp cedar]

we will have the mastercomfig discord server tf2 server running for testing community made maps

[next nymph]

i agree, en passant exploit has gone on long enough

[wintry marlin]

I am going to be free the entire next week just fyi

[rare creek]

once i finish opening hammer i will make a tf2 map

[small siren]

*I am going to

be free the entire next

week just fyi*

- Scylorn the Jungle

[wintry marlin]

valentine's day holidays

but I also have to draw kenny for my cutting board

[crisp cedar]

do u have tf2 installed?

[rare creek]

no

[crisp cedar]

oh

[wintry marlin]

I was given a woodburning tool home

[crisp cedar]

well

[rare creek]

i only have quake 3

I wonder if this is full of bug fixes

[crisp cedar]

hammer comes with tf2 already lol

so

youd already be done

[rare creek]

it was a joke

[crisp cedar]

well make better jokes then! jeez

[summer steeple]

download h++ anyway

[crisp cedar]

this

[hoary geyser]

use source 2 hammer for tf2

if only

[summer steeple]

god i wish

[rare creek]

i think stalemates are a bad game mechanic and should be removed

[small siren]

*i think stalemates

are a bad game mechanic

and should be removed*

- unsubtract

[rare creek]

#1065353224967696454 message this should not exist

[potent wolf]

powerhouse is the best map

[crisp cedar]

pd_powerhouse

anyone

[potent wolf]

YES

That would be epic

[rare creek]

that's actually a draw, not a stalemate 🤓

[wintry marlin]

if I get the map's layout done in less than a few days then I can leave the layout fixes to someone so I can finish my drawing and then get back to it

[rare creek]

actually good idea

[next nymph]

pd_minecraft_v43

[potent wolf]

die

[hybrid cloud]

convert arena maps to pd

[wintry marlin]

I am not known for good work ethic

[potent wolf]

pd_harvest

[wintry marlin]

but tf2 maps are not something I'm ashamed of

[rare creek]

convert arena maps to this https://youtu.be/QoxD4bKnwf8

[wintry marlin]

so I can focus on it easy

[hoary geyser]

what are you guy's opinions on tf:s2

[summer steeple]

its neat

[rare creek]

it was actually fun for the one month where the server was alive

[hybrid cloud]

yea it's just kinda neat

[small siren]

*it was actually

fun for the one month where the

server was alive*

- unsubtract

[hoary geyser]

i am a professional tfs2 playtester

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoPUWaAWYAQKzxU?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

i was on the famous tfs2 twitter

[crisp cedar]

cant say anything on it because i dont have s&box

its a noble cause which i hope will have fruition

funny tf2 fact

the soldier in this image is the tf2 beta soldier

[paper sluice]

beta design s

[crisp cedar]

...yea

[paper sluice]

all of them are

[crisp cedar]

youre ruining my tf2 facts!!

[potent wolf]

lmao

[crisp cedar]

if youre so smart

[paper sluice]

[crisp cedar]

then youre taking over

youre doing the daily tf2 facts now

[daring tiger]

hi kaya

[paper sluice]

:aware;

no please

[crisp cedar]

i hope you suffer from this burden

[potent wolf]

too late

@paper sluice is now the official daily tf2 fact deliverer

[paper sluice]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/873068289989967913/1001409403137822760/shid.gif

[hoary geyser]

yeah I'm secretly kaya

[paper sluice]

i am only beta fact guy

i know nothing about tf2

[crisp cedar]

also

no

"all of them are" no theyre not

heavys vest has no zipper

explain

that's retail heavy not beta heavy

i have an explanation

its just soldier

[paper sluice]

they are color wise
sniper has darker vest
spy is his grey suit
scout has concept ears and beta shirt color

soldier is straight up his beta design but yeah

[crisp cedar]

yet you cannot explain heavy

https://tenor.com/view/fool-poor-edgeworth-phoenix-wright-gif-20480828

[paper sluice]

he has no gloves

that is beta

i win

[potent wolf]

we can't see his hands....

[crisp cedar]

you cant see his hands

therefore you lose

[paper sluice]

get another panell,.,

[crisp cedar]

so close

[potent wolf]

There are clearly no other panels

[paper sluice]

ermmm

what the spruce

[crisp cedar]

show me the so-called other panels

[crisp cedar]

inconclusive evidence

[paper sluice]

i was asking if there were idk if there were any more,.,

[paper sluice]

well if the glove fits

[crisp cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/edge-worth-ace-attorney-phoenix-wright-shrug-what-gif-16631074

i thought you knew all about this

[wintry marlin]

Kid named Hurricane:

[paper sluice]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/843376491056070657/1072713759614840832/spy.gif

my counter argument:

[crisp cedar]

oh my god its the beytah

[paper sluice]

shitty p2006 spy my beloved,.,,

[wintry marlin]

rayne

[paper sluice]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1005439503357464688/1071493090092794008/trim.112FF2B6-84BE-4B11-ADCD-90693345631C.mov

[wintry marlin]

I also need a good name for the map, but I think that'll come later

[hybrid cloud]

i assume you either have an idea beforehand or it comes to you while it updates

[wintry marlin]

I mean I am split between the castle being german or UK/Scottish

because the theme of the map is that it's a huge castle that's next to the sea shore

in lithuania we have fortresses that are built in the center of huge ass lakes, but I don't know much about how others decided to build theirs

just for reference

I vibe with this image

Arc the Lad: Twilight of the Spirits

[radiant merlin]

what do you think of a ping system in tf2?

would it be op?

[kind falcon]

what

[potent wolf]

they should a player interp system in tf2

[formal dew]

The building here commands should show a ping for engineers on the same team

[daring tiger]

that would be nice

[polar holly]

Visual indicators last a lot longer than saying a com. It'd be great to be able to give my team a constant reminder of where senties are

[kind falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/floppa-spy-tf2-valve-team-fortress-gif-19751193

I think they should implement pings in casual.

[polar holly]

Then again

With it being 12v12

your screen would get pretty cluttered

[radiant merlin]

idk

in csgo 10v10 people don't use it that often

[craggy ridge]

@kind falcon

[kind falcon]

yes puddin

[craggy ridge]

imagine this

but in casual

🤯

[kind falcon]

I think they should delete soldier from higlandre

[broken thistle]

eyy, new update

[grim parcel]

nah delete hl, 6s better

[hybrid cloud]

i wonder what it would be like if prolander were more popular

[small siren]

*i wonder what it

would be like if prolander

were more popular*

- Pathulhu

[hybrid cloud]

from the pov of a guy who hasnt played comp tf2 but watches / reads a couple things about it, it feels like it has just enough of the qualities of both 6s and hl to please most of both crowds

[kind falcon]

they should delete team fortress

[grim parcel]

true

overwatch league best

[kind falcon]

No

[mystic turtle]

hello

[kind falcon]

haiii

[mystic turtle]

I went insane and decided to run TF2 in 1540 x 600

[kind falcon]

thats not insane

[mystic turtle]

fair

At least I get a pseudo-widescreen experience on my 1600 x 900 laptop monitor

[summer steeple]

what

1600x900 is widescreen

thats literally 16:9

[wintry marlin]

69 widescreen experience

[summer steeple]

i'm like trying my hardest to figure out what ratio that resolution is

the obvious answer is 154:60 but i feel like there's got to be a better way to divide that

[wintry marlin]

69 should be product of multiplication imo

[summer steeple]

77:30 is the best i can figure out

[wintry marlin]

23 by 3 perhaps

[summer steeple]

no it doesn't go cleanly into that

[wintry marlin]

Right

[high current]

Prolander’s biggest mistake was the name. By naming it “prolander” you 1. Solidify that it is a spin-off of highlander, and 2. Make a meme out of the audacity of naming it “pro”.

If it had just been named “RGL 7v7” it would have been approached as “okay here are the rules of the format, here’s what we thing the strat can be” and people wouldn’t have treated it like off-season Highlander. Instead people saw it and went “oh cool it’s just Highlander”.
The cringe factor of putting “pro” in the name just worsened the issue of people taking it less seriously.

Basically. Sigafoo is not great at naming things. Despite having one of the best names of any player.

[mystic turtle]

I mean pseudo-ultrawide, sorry

[kind falcon]

Believe it or not, only spy can backstab

[wintry marlin]

Factual statement that most definitely won't start an argument, so true bestie

[kind falcon]

Believe it or not, machina could be used as a lighter.

sometimes i forget that machina is from dxhr

[summer steeple]

I literally completely forget until someone says it is

[small siren]

*I literally

completely forget until

someone says it is*

- fiend

[kind falcon]

its also in the tracer name

[summer steeple]

the what?

[kind falcon]

bullet tracer ; . .,.

dxhr_sniper_rail_red and _blue accordingly

[summer steeple]

oh

i didn't know that

[kind falcon]

also for some reason short circuit is dxhr related (?)

dxhr_lightningball_hit_zap

[summer steeple]

huh

[kind falcon]

probably because they were added in the same update

[summer steeple]

well deus ex HR is a very yellow game, and the short circuit is yellow

[kind falcon]

thank god they added the piss glasses

[summer steeple]

they give you yellow-vision

[kind falcon]

so authentic..

[summer steeple]

make everything that isn't yellow more yellow

man no wonder jenson wears them

he loooooves yellow

[formal dew]

My vision is augmented

[kind falcon]

yeah i can see from your pfp

its quite augmented

[formal dew]

true

[mystic turtle]

classic boomers

isn't this from that one joke site where people jokingly flame modern culture

or is this in earnest?

[wintry marlin]

I am building what I'm thinking of but a lot of this is going to be blocked off, most definitely.

not even that big.

also, this makes it that blu spawn has 4 exits.

but I think only 3 should be active at a time.

before first point cap, the front exit will be closed while this back door will be open.

and then they'll be reversed.

or not, perhaps.

I am kinda building both inbounds and out of bounds at the same time.

hey

I wanna ask an experienced mapper

is it possible to teleport the payload cart?

making it go into a place and then appear in another one midmatch

meaning that the direction the players go changes halfway through, though that seems a bit of a fever dream.

[crisp cedar]

doable

should be doable i dont see why wouldnt it be doable

you can make it not really teleport but like

basically like the way it does it in gold rush

[wintry marlin]

disappear and then spawn in another location?

[crisp cedar]

when you finish stage 1/2 the cart just slides under the ground

[wintry marlin]

yeah I am aware of stages

[crisp cedar]

so i think you should be able to like

[wintry marlin]

but what about without stages?

[crisp cedar]

should be doable

i meant like you could use that method of like

hiding the cart

point is

it should be doable i see no reason as to why it wouldnt be doable

[wintry marlin]

it stops being a single track

but yeah I can see it

[crisp cedar]

ngl

multi stage payload map

where the very end goal is the same

sounds interesting

but like the first half is different

[wintry marlin]

okay, OKAY

you got my mind working

what if

this is a multistage map

but people always spawn in the same places

only that areas get opened and closed off

meaning that you deliver bombs in multiple places

this is like a spin on territory control but it's entirely payload

this is just smartly reusing the same piece of the map

Then it would be putting emphasis on making every objective close to spawn

[crisp cedar]

u know how in degroot keep it has pyramid style control points

[wintry marlin]

they reset after a timer?

[crisp cedar]

capture points a and b

c unlocks but on a timer

[wintry marlin]

sounds interesting

[crisp cedar]

so

theres a point that needs to be captured by blu to allow for the cart to be pushed

if red retake the point you cant push the cart

[wintry marlin]

but if blu fails to cap the third, where do the other 2 payloads appear?

[crisp cedar]

seems really defenders sided tho

no i mean

just one payload and one point

or maybe

[wintry marlin]

ah, makes sense

[crisp cedar]

ctf + payload

as in

instead of briefcases you collect payload fuel

idk

[wintry marlin]

this is literally pillaging moment

[kind falcon]

fuel !??? sounds a lot like deep rok galati

[crisp cedar]

always sounds good in theory

but idk if itd be fun

[wintry marlin]

do vikings come to villages to power their motorboats?

depending on the context, you could call this map beerport.

delivering beer into the castle.

a bit of a redesign

I am not sure how tall this tavern should be

an inaccessible second floor would make sense

[formal dew]

We are so fucking back

[crisp cedar]

went on /r/tf2 for the first time in years and immediately greeted with people readying themselves for a future disappointment

no

no

are you implying new weapons

[formal dew]

disappointment is ultimately valves fault

[kind falcon]

oh wait

[crisp cedar]

??

[kind falcon]

items can mean

cosmetics, too

[crisp cedar]

balance changes???

[formal dew]

bc they worded very carefully to be ambiguous whether it will be scream fortress sized or larger

[formal dew]

reddit moment

[wintry marlin]

I am not sure if this is

alright

but yeah, putting emphasis on being very close to water

the entire starting area is like
"This place is built pretty high above water to not get flooded"

it will get dumber before it'll get better.

definitely needed to fix this glaring issue from the start.

dirty angle.

I made it make more sense.

this is still just making the layout.

oh and yeah, just for clarity.

that could be either a wall or a one way door.

the entire dock area will be blocked off by spawn barrier.

[small siren]

*the entire dock

area will be blocked off

by spawn barrier.*

- Scylorn the Jungle

[wintry marlin]

I named the folder where I saved the map files "Boletaria".
lol.

it feels a bit large but it can be solved

[rare creek]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/397164186288783360/1073354363910762546/Picsart_23-02-09_13-26-26-963.jpg

[crisp cedar]

that image of the soldier will never be not funny to me

i just see this guy and i think "this is mge guy"

[wintry marlin]

I think I know a perfect gimmick for this map

with each point capture the water level rises

and the friendly area gets submerged and it results in everyone dying instantly there

given how high above I am building the playable area with many overarching bridges, it makes sense.

the point is that it also defuses the friendly area and all the bottom dwelling sneaky teleporters get countered too

so there's no ridiculous ninjas who spend 5 minutes walking from first point to where the fight happens

[hoary geyser]

rayne I feel like you're being a bit too pessimistic about the update

but r/tf2 definitely expects too much lol

[slender nexus]

Oh God these people are gonna be so disappointed because ytubers are overblowing this

[potent wolf]

people when they can't read

:|

[wintry marlin]

I'm literally cancelling every youtuber who uses the soyjak heavy to point at the blog post

It happens every single time and it's always annoying

[potent wolf]

I'm cancelling every youtuber

[crisp cedar]

im not pessimistic

i know exactly what to expect from this update based on what valve told us

im not saying "ohhh this update is gonna be so disappointing" im saying "people are setting themselves up for disappointment"

this is still good that were getting a summer update obv

[formal dew]

it'll be smissmas plus a valve made taunt at the minimum