#Move 6 discussion if 5 Ng3 is played

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

idle kelp
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Yes. Bd3 is quite close trailing by 4%. If thst changes, we'll create another topic post. The Masters heavily favor 5 .. Bg6.

severe lava
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Well for our 6th move i think the main decision should be whether to put the g-knight on f3 or h3. There is also the very reputable h4 line that the coaches showed, which often ends up with Nh3 being played with it anyway, or the reverse is playing Nh3 first , followed by Nf4 and then playing h4 on move, so it follows the same plan anyway. But Nf3 would change the plans priorities to minor piece development.

idle kelp
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6 Nf3 and 6 h4 can reach the same position

gloomy stirrup
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CM Mitul had also posted the line with h4-h5 and eventually exchanging the light bishops at d3. Then we ofc castle queen side right?

oak geyser
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h4 line definetely is fine

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Nf3 is also fine

severe lava
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yes I think typically in these positions white castles queenside. Also after looking at it I guess the argument can be made that Nf3 eventually trades the bishop while keeping the knight on a central position. Nh3 is more of a novel move which we dont really need to include

idle kelp
severe lava
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I think that would be really useful and a good idea

gloomy stirrup
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For e6 or g6, are we creating another forum?

gloomy stirrup
idle kelp
gloomy stirrup
gloomy stirrup
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And if 5.. Nf6, should we continue development instead of taking the bishop?

idle kelp
idle kelp
warm cape
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e6 and g6 are just bad. Nf6 also isn't great we will take on f5 there, I forget if we are supposed to meet Qa5 with Bd2 or c3.

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Bg6 is pretty exclusively played

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doesn't really matter if we play 6. h4 or 6. Nf3 they transpose

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there was this interesting line someone prepared against me a few months ago 6. h4 h6 7. Be3

gloomy stirrup
warm cape
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yes

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the main line is fine though

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can be a bit dry though

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there are some options for black to make it more interesting

gloomy stirrup
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@oak geyser how are you thinking between Nf3 and Nxf5 if 5.. g6 is played?

oak geyser
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well

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the bishop really isnt going anywhere unless it undevelops

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so my thoughts are that Nf3 is better than Nxf5 immediately

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After 5.. e6 we should take (i meant to put nxf5 there)

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I would add a 💀 reaction to those three options because he is not going to play them (which is why i did not look into them deeply)

gloomy stirrup
oak geyser
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seems like h4 is most likely our best bet on creating good chances after Bg6, the known line is: 6… h6 7 Nf3 Nd7

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after this there is either h5, placing a pawn deep in the kingside or bd3 just developing (played in some recent GM games)

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Do note though that bd3 immediately generally leads to a draw in those games

gloomy stirrup
idle kelp
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Just catching up. Give me a bit to look at that.

idle kelp
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short break

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back

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I like 5 .. g6 6 Nxf5 gxf5 (Qa5+) better, because 6 Nf3 allows 6 .. Bg4

serene bronze
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6.h4, it's the most common, it makes sense, the problem is convincing 300s to play it

serene bronze
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GothamChess will play 5.Ng3 Bg6

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so we play 6.h4

serene bronze
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6.Nf3 and 6.h4 are both good

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don't vote right away

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wait to see if something like this happens, where there's one move that's clearly bad that is close to winning

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then vote for whichever of 6.Nf3 or 6.h4 has a better chance of winning

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save your vote, it might be close

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6.Nh3 is playable but there's no way it's winning the vote

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so don't bother with that

serene bronze
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The most important thing is getting out of the opening with a good position

idle kelp
serene bronze
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So what I’m saying is don’t vote right away

idle kelp
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And Ng3 leaves us with a small advantage

serene bronze
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On move 6, 6.h4 is preferred, but don’t vote unless we know that the top two moves will be 6.h4 and 6.Nf3

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Because we have a second chance to convince people to play h4 with 7.h4

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The last thing we want is some move like 6.Bf4 winning

idle kelp
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We do need poll results from this Discord for move 6 recommendations. There are only 9 hours left in our 5th turn and we will post recommendations well before our turn expires

idle kelp
serene bronze
serene bronze
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What I’m saying is we don’t have a large enough voting bloc to make any one move win

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At least not at this early stage where there are still tons of players

idle kelp
idle kelp
oak geyser
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here it can retreat back to g6

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which stops the other ideas in the nf6 line with Bd3!?

serene bronze
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We need to convince Low Elo players to play good moves

oak geyser
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here though, we simply lose a pawn with less attacking ideas

serene bronze
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Exactly

oak geyser
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so delay bd3

serene bronze
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We need to identify potential bad moves and explanations for why they are bad

oak geyser
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until the knight has been placed on G3

serene bronze
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Defending the pawn

idle kelp
oak geyser
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Well the queen defends the d4 pawn

serene bronze
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We need to identify potentially bad moves that might get suggested

oak geyser
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so we wont have to worry until bd3

serene bronze
oak geyser
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which then we will require a knight on f3

serene bronze
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Look

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I think 6.Nf3 will be leading early

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I’m fine if that’s the move, but if we want 6.h4, we have to convince people why it’s better than 6.Nf3, which is a lot harder than convincing people 5.Ng3 is better than 5.Bd3

idle kelp
serene bronze
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Most low Elo players won’t suggest h4 because they don’t know how

oak geyser
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ng3 -> bg6

serene bronze
oak geyser
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we should try and convince for h4

serene bronze
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The good news is even if we fail, we have a second chance

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Against basically all replies, if 6.Nf3, we can still play 7.h4

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Look

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We need to get the first 12 moves right

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I think GothamChess will play the Lobron System

idle kelp
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Our poll for that sequence shows 6 h4 with a strong lead

serene bronze
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So we need to convince people to go for that

oak geyser
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Usually Nd7 is played after Nf3 in either line

idle kelp
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Yes, that is exactly what the plan is.

oak geyser
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but we allow early e6 if we play Nf3 first

idle kelp
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We also plan for other possible black moves

serene bronze
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1.e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Bf5 5. Ng3 Bg6 6. h4 h6 7. Nf3 Nd7 8. h5 Bh7 9. Bd3 Bxd3 10. Qxd3 e6 11. Bd2 Ngf6 12. O-O-O Be7

serene bronze
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But GothamChess is going to play 5..Bg6 if we play 5.Ng3

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Gap is back down to 442

oak geyser
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What the goal of Nf3 is

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is to put that knight on e5

serene bronze
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Yes

oak geyser
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But

serene bronze
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Which is why black plays Nd7

oak geyser
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nd7 shuts any of that down

serene bronze
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If black doesn’t play Nd7, then Ne5

oak geyser
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and gotham is good enough to know this

serene bronze
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Also

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Nf3 is standard development

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It’s like saying 2..Nc6 shuts down 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3

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11.Bf4 is also good, we’ll see when we get there

oak geyser
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yeah

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we must campaign for h4 first though

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instead of nf3

idle kelp
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First draft of our recommendations:

If GothamChess plays 5 .. Bg6 after we play 5 Ng3, we play 6 h4 threatening Gotham's Bg6 with capture after h5. We intend to force his white square bishop back to h7, and then exchange it off with white square bishop while developing our queen.

If GothamChess plays 5 .. g6 after we play 5 Ng3, we play 6 Nxf5 swapping our knight for his bishop and likely doubling his pawns after 6 .. gxf5.

If GothamChess plays 5 .. e6 after we play 5 Ng3, we play 6 Nxf5 swapping our knight for his bishop and likely doubling his pawns after 6 .. exf5.

If GothamChess plays 5 .. Nf6 after we play 5 Ng3, we play 6 Nxf5 capturing his Bf5! He does have a nice rejoinder with 6 .. Qa5+ 7 Bd2 Qxf5, but we still swapped our knight for his bishop retaining our bishop pair and his queen is vulnerable.

serene bronze