Openings vs Endgames

[wise pelican]

endgames periodt

[unreal heron]

no

[oak niche]

openings

[cerulean path]

openings are more important

[little haven]

Russian school of endgames

[quartz kernel]

Openings all the way

[proven iris]

both

[plucky python]

Openings

[sour marsh]

fact

[worn prawn]

69th

[dense plank]

openings...

[outer sentinel]

IDK

[merry salmon]

WHY IS IT SO FAST??????

[compact swan]

endgames

[oak niche]

most resign before endgames

[inner ingot]

depends on your analysis of a beginner

[fresh mica]

Midgames

[wise pelican]

endgames >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[split ether]

OPEN BROO

[cerulean path]

endgames are too complex

[plucky python]

Or at least opening principles

[reef field]

if you don't study openings you aint getting to an endgame

[sage yacht]

Openings

[sour marsh]

endgame fr

[lost comet]

Lol

[worn prawn]

Openings simply better since endgames are easier

[sage yacht]

Is there an endgame equivalent of opening principles? If not then study endgames

[fathom fox]

Endgames. Beginner blunder the opening advantage anyway

[inner ingot]

beginners could be 1600

[coral inlet]

i mean if you dont know how to open up the game, you're not making it TO THE ENDGAME

[sage yacht]

Avengers endgame was kinda mid I liked infinity war more

[little haven]

Endgames for sure, imma trust the Russians on this one

[sage yacht]

It's openings. Beginner games always end before endgame 99% of the time

[autumn scroll]

Brother there is no shot openings are better for beginners, nobody plays theory at beginner level

[sage yacht]

Endagmes, as any begginer can blunder an opening, so it's important to know how to execute an endgame when the opponent blunders more than you.

[near nova]

endgames, because it is well know that at begginer level, openings are almost irrelevant, as long as they play principles

[inner ingot]

and endgames could be more important

[wise pelican]

@reef field if you lose in the opening you ain't bad at openings. you're bad at tactics

[fallen crown]

Opening are useless, If you learn tactics you can play good in opening without useless theory

[shy hazel]

Beginerrs dont even get to play endgames

[oak niche]

most resign before endgames, openings that crush your opponent are crucial

[fluid saffron]

Good opening is just important to have control over rest of the game

[regal ember]

Both.

[dusty lark]

If you lose in the opening you lose the game

[worldly shoal]

has to be openings , cause if u dont learn openings you aint surviving t'ill the endgame

[cerulean path]

most beginner games dont even reach and endgame they lose in the middlegame because of shitty oopeninfs

[plucky python]

Beginners do not know what on earth they are doing in the beginning

[keen python]

learn some traps and u climb elo pretty easily

[daring fox]

openings as most games in the beginner level are won in the opening-middle game

[spare jetty]

openiif you are below 1k elo and learn opening theory, your opponent will probably play a novelty within 3 moves

[unreal heron]

Learn middlegames instead smh

[wise pelican]

cause of shitty tactics***

[real shale]

hello!

[inner ingot]

you climb elo, but you don't get better.

[wise pelican]

not cause of the openings

[split ether]

OPEN>>>>>>>>>>

[outer sentinel]

opening

[sour marsh]

@wise pelican spitting facts rn

[chilly sequoia]

both

[mint halo]

Opening is better and easy to learn hence I opt for endgames, but if given choice between middle game and end game then I'd choose middle game

[raven merlin]

openings are much more important

[dull isle]

Simple answer: endgames train calculation unlike openings

[pine quail]

if you lose any time in the game you lose the game

[chilly sequoia]

hello

[icy trellis]

Openings because your opponent will blunder before you reach the endgame

[cerulean path]

if u play a solid opening u wont succumb to tricks

[sage yacht]

if the begginer knows some minimal tactics then endgames solo

[chilly sequoia]

opening

[lone timber]

Openings would be important for beginners, if they can't start properly, they won't be able to get to endgame to try what they learnt

[inner ingot]

or how bout just do both

learn both

[plucky python]

Castle soon, bishops and knights off their starting square

And stuff like that

[trim pecan]

smh

[mint halo]

Why do I have just joined role when I am here for past 200 days lol

[ivory fern]

To win games: opening by a large margin
To learn chess thinking and strategies for long term: endgame

[trim pecan]

none of em

[keen python]

half the playerbase dont care about that tbh just social status "My chess elo is higher 🤓 "

[spare jetty]

begginers below 1k often leave opening theory in like 3 moves, so studying lines isnt worth it

[raven merlin]

you won't even reach an endgame in the first place if your opening is pushing all your pawns one space forward

[runic pecan]

What rating range are we considering as "beginner"?

[trim pecan]

puzzles and middlegame

[vagrant wadi]

gotta have an opening if you even want a good endgame

[oak niche]

it is crucial to learn a few tactics such as how to checkmate with a rook and king or stuff like that

but still

[opal crescent]

No matter how much opening theory you learn, you will never emerge victorious as openings aren't everything, I believe endgames to be the most vital 👍

[oak niche]

openings are more important

[unreal heron]

fr

[inner ingot]

Basic checkmates + King+pawn matter

[worldly shoal]

openings def

[raven merlin]

1-300?

[sage yacht]

Openings are more important

[reef field]

thats why you gotta study openings

[inner ingot]

naaaaa

[fallen crown]

0

[inner ingot]

1-1000 beginner

[opal crescent]

I don't do endgames which is why I'm so bad

[burnt raptor]

Opening teaches you opening
Endgame teaches you chess

[spare jetty]

you just gotta know opening principles as a begginer, no need to memeorise the italian or caro or smin

[sullen dragon]

Damn cant vote im a beginner aswell

[inner ingot]

at least

[stoic crest]

openings?

[fiery marsh]

What's the point in having an awesome opening if you can't win the endgame??

[inner ingot]

probs 1-1200

[oak niche]

i guess im a beginner then?

but i think openings are better

[worldly shoal]

we're all beginners just vote lmao

[sage yacht]

If you learn an opening at beginner levels it's instant +500 elo

[inner ingot]

beginners think openings are better

[sullen dragon]

Ok

[dusty lark]

IK but if you dont want to lose in the first 5 moves then study some openings

[sage yacht]

HEY @wise pelican he bypassed

[inner ingot]

ye

[tender lodge]

100% opening because they are more interesting and keep beginners engaged and interested in learning the game

[lone timber]

Talking for beginners though, overall yes endgame is very important, but for beginners opening is something that always gets overlooked

[shy hazel]

most of the beginners dont even come to endgames lol

[sage yacht]

I memorized the vienna dn went from 200-800

Why is there no choice for middlegames?

[lusty compass]

I would recommend both, but endgames is easier, and it will be useful in every game.
Spend sometime learning both, no need too deep if you're beginner, just basic will do

[reef field]

If you are a beginner and haven't learned any openings/traps, you won't be getting far so whats the point of learning endgames

[autumn scroll]

Beginners justifying their own bad study behaviour because they don't wanna admit endgames are more important

[inner ingot]

everyone would vote middlegames, but it's hard to study

[regal ember]

True

[ivory fern]

at the 800-1000 level, if you dont learn openings, you're getting trapped 50% of the time or get bad position for endgame easily

[worldly shoal]

openings cause i learned the vienna by heart and gained like 400 elo

[reef field]

You would just get checkmated in move 10

[fallen crown]

Its better to learn tactics to actually use brain playing opening without useless theory, it’s hard to learn good 5+ opening, easier is to learn some tactics and learn how to play good. Endgames are one of the best ways to learn tactics

[sage yacht]

I think yall are wrong

[tender lodge]

Openings have cooler names like what beginner wouldn’t want to learn the hyper accelerated dragon pterodactyl variation or whatever it is lmao

[inner ingot]

portmaneu

[opal crescent]

It tends to be prevalent for beginners to learn tons of theory they will never encounter, I can confidently say that literally, every beginner I have conversed with does not take a gander at Endgames.

[quick patrol]

if your opponent doesnt know theory, you cant use theory yourself

[sage yacht]

🤯

[tender lodge]

Actually a good point 😅😅

[worldly shoal]

we are talking at beginner level , most beginners dont survive t'ill the endgame or jsut resign its good to know openings and have a great start , can intimidate your opponent and make them unconfortable

[fallen crown]

Good point

[regal ember]

Yea but if he tries to scholer mate? If you don't know openings then you are screwd

[inner ingot]

Is everyone saying here that they would rather learn e4 e5 than King+Queen checkmate?

[quick patrol]

that is NOT a valid opening of which you should know theory

[fading juniper]

Openings can be important, but all you really need to know as a beginner are opening principles, as well as what traps to avoid. Endgames also have a lot more tactics and principles behind it, and a point said, you can use endgames even though your opponent has no idea, but you can't with openings.

[opal crescent]

You don't need openings that's the thing, you will make it to 1000 just by utilizing opening principles

[reef field]

people saying endgames are misunderstanding the question

[quick patrol]

tell Rapport you need opening theory

[visual forge]

i dont know any openings,i just use the basics of chess to play,since it takes some time to learn

[inner ingot]

are you sure about that?

[regal ember]

You should

[dull isle]

people saying openings are misunderstanding the question

[regal ember]

for beginners

[fallen crown]

But you want to play overall good chess at start or destroy 200 elo opponents? LOL you are learning to play good not to win. Most of beginners play some trash openings or don’t play them so theory is useless

[inner ingot]

alr answer this

[agile obsidian]

like define beginner

tho

[inner ingot]

would you learn queen checkmate or scholars mate

[quick patrol]

real question is, till when are you a beginner

[inner ingot]

beginner 1-1200?

[reef field]

whats your elo?

[tender lodge]

Honestly any advantage a beginner gets in the opening doesn’t matter at all if they blunder mate in the endgame

[sage yacht]

Both are required to be learned and if you don't know both of those, then that sucks

[inner ingot]

ye

[quick patrol]

I mean if we're talking 400 neither matters

[dull isle]

why does it matter

[quick patrol]

if we're talking 1200 both matter

[inner ingot]

ye they both are req

[worldly shoal]

i mean for like very new ppl to chess its better to study openings first and know some opening tricks then study endgames

[inner ingot]

but which one is more required

[fallen crown]

First of all you need learn tactics and after that you can start learning easy openings

[fading juniper]

It's not mutually exclusive to study both, but in terms of which one you should prioritize, that's the question. You should certainly learn how to avoid a Scholar's mate, but you don't need to learn all Sicillian lines

[inner ingot]

is the question

[inner ingot]

:/

[reef field]

If you are high elo that means your are trying to confuse newbies, if you are low elo you are confused

[agile obsidian]

i feel like if someone is JUST learning chess, they just choose 1 opening and play it

[warm chasm]

openings so that the beginners make it to the endgame in the 1st place

[agile obsidian]

idkkk

this is hard 😢

[inner ingot]

K+Q mate>openings

[vital osprey]

I think starting with openings (opening principles) is more important for beginners, because if your openings are terrible, you're simply not gonna get to the endgames you've studied

[inner ingot]

K+Q mate>openings

[sage yacht]

I mean all a beginner has to do is pick the first move and follow opening principles

[autumn scroll]

1. e4 h6 and all your opening study is out the window gg

[quick patrol]

also what counts as endgames? cos if it includes mating the opponent then its defenitely more important, a queen up is fun, but useless if you cant mate with it

[dull isle]

your opinion bro

[reef field]

Beginners studying endgames and end up getting scholar mated lmaoo

[fallen crown]

If you are beginner you mostly won’t understand why you play some moves (most of openings have tactics)

[worldly shoal]

i mean for new chess players i would say learn 1 or 2 openings as white and 1 or 2 openings as black then start studying endgames

[warm chasm]

study that too

[agile obsidian]

the 11 year old kids in my library playing the king's indian perfectly

[quick patrol]

scholar's mate isnt even a proper opening, I dont know theory for that either, just principals

[inner ingot]

i dislike when people play openings without learning why the moves work

[fallen crown]

If you know basic tactics you won’t get scholars mated LMAO

[sage yacht]

They're a bit more advanced

[regal ember]

Sicilian is shit. Absoulotley not. As a 1000-1200 player I learned all the possible main variations for the fried liver yet people play dubvious lines and I lose because of that

[dull isle]

if you study endgames you actually gain some calculation skill, which helps your game overall much more

[reef field]

Tactics is not something beginners learn

[queen lake]

you can't reach an equal endgame when you begin cuz you're dead after 4moves

[inner ingot]

what?

tactics?

isn't that what EVERY beginner learns

[quick patrol]

and you cant win a game unless you know how to mate the opponent

[worldly shoal]

i mean not study all openings , study a few easy ones and the msot commun ones and why dod you even study ? do understand why you play those moves and learn new moves

[fallen crown]

Yeah it is, it’s useless learning tons of theory without knowing why you play them and what tactics you use

[inner ingot]

ye

[quick patrol]

for openings beginners should use principals, not theory

[fallen crown]

true

[quick patrol]

so unless that counts as studying opening, my vote goes to endgames

[regal ember]

But if we are totally honest.

[worldly shoal]

yeah theory is too much

[inner ingot]

do principles count as studying openings

side question

[dull isle]

no

[reef field]

yes

[fading juniper]

Example opening, but hte point still stands

[odd kindle]

Id say endgames because this is the part many people screw up. there are few pieces and need lots of calculating.

[drowsy bluff]

You cant win a game if you dont know endgames

[regal ember]

Most beginners don't even reach the end game

[inner ingot]

TRUE

[slow mortar]

end games ofc for opening you can study just 1 or 2

[opal crescent]

Opening principles aren't an opening

[inner ingot]

they dont reach the endgame because they resign

[quick patrol]

but does mating the opponent counts as endgame?

[inner ingot]

yes

it does

[opal crescent]

They are just principles you follow in the opening

[inner ingot]

but only late game

[fallen crown]

So endgames >>>

[opal crescent]

Yeah

All the way

[worldly shoal]

as a beginner i have reached the endgame RARELY

[reef field]

yall think beginner is like 1600+ elo?

[quick patrol]

then it is literally endgames, because you cant win without mating (ignoring resignation)

[fallen crown]

Do you think beginner need theory?

[reef field]

beginner is 0-800 elo

[opal crescent]

maybe till -1200

[reef field]

Yes

[inner ingot]

ye

[drowsy bluff]

If you take classes in a chess club you will start with endgames, thats it

[inner ingot]

NA

800 are intermediate?

[quick patrol]

tbh beginners should just do a bit of both, opening principals and mating sequences, then they're fine

[fallen crown]

Many titled players say that opening theory is useless, it’s better to learn tactics and principles

[harsh sedge]

Yeah but you ain’t gonna be able to get there with a crappy opening

[quick patrol]

not either or

[inner ingot]

800 is def beginner

[quick patrol]

so what if you're down a queen to your opponent who doesnt know how to mate you with it

[worldly shoal]

at some point i dont even use all the things i've learned about the endgame its all lost knowledge cause almost all my games dont go until the endgame

[opal crescent]

You literally do not need an opening, that's the thing

[inner ingot]

side question 2: What is the rating range for beginners?

[fallen crown]

Are you learning how to play chess or how to win ? I guess you learn to play good, with good theory you won’t play good, opening will play good.

[reef field]

Studying openings is learning to develop pieces and control the center.

[inner ingot]

hypermodern?

[inner ingot]

oop never mind

[reef field]

Way more important than knowing what to do when you only got pawns

[fallen crown]

but endgames are not only pawns LOL

[inner ingot]

what if someone invented an opening that controls the c and f files

[reef field]

As a beginner you rarely get to an endgame

[inner ingot]

might be godly

[quick patrol]

tbh the only correct answer to this question is both, not either or

[inner ingot]

ye

[steady fog]

opening better cause beginners barely get to an endgame and if they do they prob are either very much winner or very much losing

[obsidian thicket]

personally endgames
im a beginnier and i suck at them but am pretty good for a beginnier at openings
im 600 blitz and can play a lot of queens gambit lines and traxler lines and sicilian, but can't convert rook advantage endgames

[quick patrol]

its like a paradox, without opening no endgame, but without endgame no wins

[fallen crown]

But guys

Are you learning to win or play good?

[reef field]

a lot of games end before the endgame

[opal crescent]

End-game

[quick patrol]

ppl said mating counted as endgame

[inner ingot]

90 percent of beginners here: WIN

[reef field]

lmao

[inner ingot]

thats everyone who chose opening

[mossy lake]

with beginners, from what ive seen, the nedgame is where it matters, i can see them failing to see chjeckmates, struggling to take peices, losing easy promotions

[inner ingot]

mating counts as endgames

but only sometimes

[worldly shoal]

i love how im voting opening when i dont know a single opening

[mossy lake]

that's why i think endgame is more important

[reef field]

alright yall trolling now

[mossy lake]

how come?

[reef field]

So if you get scholars mated thas an endgame?

[fallen crown]

You are trolling

[inner ingot]

no

but if u get k+q mated?

[obsidian thicket]

this is exactly my struggle

[quick patrol]

my conclusion is it's a stupid question, neither is more important than the other, therefore I will remove my vote

[mossy lake]

if you get checkmated 50 moves in, becasue you didnt see an easy rook + king mate?

[fallen crown]

but with basic tactics learned from endgame you can punish scholars mate. Why the hell you need to learn scholars mate theory LMAO

[obsidian thicket]

im overly good at opening lines as a beginnier but suck at tactics and endgames

[mossy lake]

or setting up for a rosetta?

[fallen crown]

focus on tactics and strategy more

[mossy lake]

exactly, jsut dont allow a bishop opening, or queen rush

[reef field]

Only one way to settle whos right

[inner ingot]

which is?

[jaunty heart]

why is tactics not an option here?

[inner ingot]

probs no one

[fallen crown]

just focus on game and understand every move LOL you don’t have to learn theory

[obsidian thicket]

this

[reef field]

Play me

[mossy lake]

how?

[reef field]

play me

[inner ingot]

bullet

[obsidian thicket]

ok wanna play lol

[inner ingot]

pl

ok

play bullet

ur probs gonna win but i got a chance in bullet

[reef field]

nah bullet is trash

[inner ingot]

account

ye

[mossy lake]

okay wat's your username

[fallen crown]

Endgames are mostly tactics

[reef field]

https://play.chess.com/k2nD7

[inner ingot]

send me user

[reef field]

rapid

[quick patrol]

bro for bullet you need neither openings nor endgame lmao

thats not chess

[inner ingot]

oh

they are 1500

i wanted to play bullet lmao

[jaunty heart]

thats middlegame no?

[fallen crown]

tactics are in every phase of game

[quick patrol]

tactics are in all 3

[reef field]

dude ur 1700

[fallen crown]

but mostly in endgame

[jaunty heart]

fair

[inner ingot]

ue

[jaunty heart]

that's why i voted endgame

[inner ingot]

i challenge u in bullet

[mossy lake]

https://play.chess.com/w24pM

[inner ingot]

play me

[fallen crown]

I love how people say openings are better because they give you chance to win fast LOL

[obsidian thicket]

https://play.chess.com/p6arV

[inner ingot]

if ur playing bullet

endgame on top

100%

no contest

people literally play fool

*fools mate

and still win lmao

[fallen crown]

Bro, as beginner you are learning to win or to play good?

you will see on higher level that good theory isn’t enough

But if you want you can learn 60 moves game and play it LOL

Where is fun in playing 75% theory game ?

[steady fog]

gg that was me

[obsidian thicket]

ik

i play too fast lol

[obsidian thicket]

none but better to know theory than not

[rugged violet]

then play bullet or blitz

[junior beacon]

Endgames are critical to steal won games. You should learn not the opening as a beginner but how to not lose pieces forfree.

[fallen crown]

okay I see you want waste time for useless theory

no problem

What are you learning in midgame other than in endgame?

[placid rampart]

abt the guys who choosed openings team - if you would have any knowledge, you would know that beginners CAN'T study openings

[fallen crown]

you know endgame has Queen/Rook/Pawn/Knight/Bishop and king combinations and also so many tactics and calculations

[placid rampart]

yes, and one inaccurate move loses game

you have 600 elo...

[fallen crown]

and it’s easier to learn those things in endgame

Because we are talking about beginners

[clever zephyr]

Learning openings also teaches you how to think when playing chess

[placid rampart]

no if u are beginner lmao

[limber summit]

[placid rampart]

of course, if you are beginner you NEED to have a look at the openings that can happen in your game, but not study them!

[fallen crown]

If you are beginner you won’t understand moves you are playing in openings

[mossy lake]

it said ! opening, but ?endgame, so endgame is mre important

[placid rampart]

studying openings below like 1200 chess.com elo is a waste of time

[mossy lake]

'tis official

[placid rampart]

i mean, you can learn italian game and thats it

[mossy lake]

NO

[clever zephyr]

Yeah by learning I dont mean memorizing what moves to do but understanding why you are moving it

[mossy lake]

dont you dare say italian game

it is so boring

[placid rampart]

yeah... it is

[mossy lake]

that is all anybody plays

[placid rampart]

but its the best opening for beginners

[mossy lake]

spanish is way more fun

no it isnt

they lse after move 5

lose*

[placid rampart]

you cant play spanish as an beginner

[fallen crown]

I think first of all you need to learn are tactics and mates in 1/2 to understand basics, nothing else

[mossy lake]

they think, haha friend liver, then lsoe the game

[mossy lake]

no, but the berlin exchange variation is very simple

and much beetter than spanish

italian*

[placid rampart]

what if your oponent wont play it?

and you are 600 elo

i mean, not you

[clever zephyr]

fr you lose before even reaching endgame

[mossy lake]

trsut me, as an 800 where people only play italian if u are white, theyt play it

[placid rampart]

just assuming

[mossy lake]

what's ur rating?

[mossy lake]

exactly

i beat Frank with the ruy lopez exchange variation

at 800

[placid rampart]

1200

[mossy lake]

coolio

i can beat 1200, wanna play?

[clever zephyr]

💀

[mossy lake]

ill send a challange link if so

trust me ;)

[placid rampart]

sorry, on my way to vacation

[mossy lake]

i once won 25-9 against a 1200

[mossy lake]

have a nice holiday

[broken dagger]

bruh imagine beginner doesn't know how to checkmate with king and queen 💀
how are you going to win the king and pawn endgames then

[placid rampart]

thanks!

[broken dagger]

ofc endgames

[mossy lake]

whjere are you going?

Oo, wanna play?

[clever zephyr]

I think back then people start out with 1200 rating

Sure but I havent played in a while

[mossy lake]

he had the game for 1 year, so account was not new

[mossy lake]

https://play.chess.com/RM9Vi

[placid rampart]

actually, staying in my country, Poland

just going north

to the sea

[mossy lake]

ahhh nice, ive never been

[smoky spruce]

this is a very stupid question 😂
atleast shouldve made it middlegame vs endgame 😂

[mossy lake]

yeah

@clever zephyr nvm

i gotta go

[placid rampart]

cant way to see you here sometime (:

[clever zephyr]

yeah they should get better questions

[clever zephyr]

kk cya

[placid rampart]

wait* bruh

[broken dagger]

imagine beginner plays opening prep, gets completely winning position, wins a queen and goes into an endgame with king and queen vs king
and he doesn't know how to checkmate

[fallen crown]

middlegame vs endgame? Its the same thing, but in engdame there are less pieces

[mossy lake]

i live in uk, but i am not planning on visiting northern europe soon sorry, just the Mediterranean

[void pilot]

aint no way

[clever zephyr]

[void pilot]

how are people saying opening

[smoky spruce]

ye but the whoole qs is which is more important to stufy at earlier lvl, so itd still be a question orth discussing, endgame vs opening is no discussions at all

[void pilot]

legit

[placid rampart]

we are actually central europe, i meant north part of country, the baltic sea

[void pilot]

opening doesnt matter at all

[quick narwhal]

?????????

[void pilot]

an opening advatage does matter at all at this level

[void pilot]

?

[mossy lake]

oh yeah, i suppose iceland, and estonia and finland/sweden/norway are north

[placid rampart]

yeah... im losing faith in humantiny seeing this:

[mossy lake]

EXACTLY

anyway, bye bye everyone

[placid rampart]

byeee!

[smoky spruce]

ye there hv been some wild votes 😔

[void pilot]

crazy

[placid rampart]

sad, actually

[smoky spruce]

tru 😂

[broken dagger]

imagine you fail to win king and rook vs king because you didn't study endgame

bruh how is opening winning the vote 💀

[placid rampart]

yeah...

actually endgame is my favourite part of the game

im kinda accurate in it

[broken dagger]

I mean the most basic checkmates
checkmate with two major pieces

checkmate with queen
checkmate withrook

stuff like those

are part of endgames

[placid rampart]

yeah

gotta go

have a nice day everyone, bye!

[broken dagger]

L

[upbeat scaffold]

what's the point of studying openings when ur opponent wont even play any lines

[broken dagger]

ruy lopez at low elo moment (that used to be me 💀)

[tardy perch]

Endgames include mating patterns. How can you win the game if you don't know checkmate ?

[smoky spruce]

i would be very happy if these geniuses buy courses at low elo, study em all out, and then no opponent plays any of the damn lines 😂

also they blunder stalemates against people who dont resign 😂 😂

no offense to anyone

[broken dagger]

reminds me of guess the elo
the guy plays the recommended moves in gotham's course and their opponent hangs a piece 5 moves out of the opening but since that move isn't covered in the course the guy doesn't take the free piece

[smoky spruce]

the vienna gambit sample apperance on gte yep😂

[broken dagger]

that's one that I remember

[main cloak]

no one thought of saying learn the openings so you can do an unconventional opening that probably no one has studied to confuse the opponent

or they did and i didn’t read it

(or so that you don’t do one of those openings)

[olive ibex]

the opening learn you the basic stuff and help you playing your mid game

[broken dagger]

that doesn't work as well for beginners

[main cloak]

you could just learn midgame strategies

[main cloak]

true

[olive ibex]

but youll mess up the first part of a chess game

and you won't arrive to the endgame

[inner ingot]

the higher your rating is, the more likely you are to say endgames

[broken dagger]

opening mistakes aren't usually punished at beginner level

[olive ibex]

botez gambit

[main cloak]

i mean if you know the basics you probably won’t completely ruin the opening

[broken dagger]

the only exceptions are traps and especially checkmate traps but you can easily just figure out how to avoid them and you probably shouldn't fall for it more then once or twice

[main cloak]

yep

[broken dagger]

playing principled developing moves usually doesn't get them into too much trouble

[main cloak]

one thing is that openings are just const sets of moves, endgames are actual patterns

[olive ibex]

if you just started playing chess whats the first thing you will do after learning how the pieces move?

[main cloak]

so it’s easier to learn endgames most likely

[main cloak]

probably how to actually use the pieces

stuff like forking, discovered attacks

[broken dagger]

learn what checks and checkmates are

[main cloak]

and stalemates

[broken dagger]

and stalemate yeah

[olive ibex]

ye when yk this type of stuff

[main cloak]

learn strategies for midgame

[broken dagger]

and then probably learning the basic checkmates
checkmate with two major pieces
checkmate with king and queen
checkmate with king and rook

[main cloak]

i mean these are pretty intuitive so you can probably learn how to do them in like 15 minutes

[broken dagger]

out of those three the king and rook is probably the hardest

[olive ibex]

what about learning that i need to go for the center of the board when starting a game

[broken dagger]

making sure you're confidently able to do those three checkmates is very important

[olive ibex]

instead of playing h4 a4

[broken dagger]

I personally think after learning those checkmates the next thing to learn is opening principles

[main cloak]

by learning something like king’s pawn you are already doing that

which is an opening, not many

[olive ibex]

ye

you studied an opening

[main cloak]

opening principles is also probably better than just the openings

[main cloak]

yes, an

[olive ibex]

at the end of the day you gotta learn basic things of both openings and endgames to start playing a game

[main cloak]

yeah, the question is what do you need more though

i’d say midgame strategies if it were an option, but no so endgames

[olive ibex]

if you learn basic checkmate patterns you don't really need to know what is opposition, key squares...

[main cloak]

well yeah

that’s pretty much what endgames are

[olive ibex]

but you need to know traps or even one opening to get better at chess

[white cedar]

arguably endgames are way more important

[olive ibex]

kind of

[white cedar]

depends what they mean by opening though

opening principles are good but real opening theory is unnecessary

[normal heron]

For beginners the endgame doesn't matter as much because most games end in the opening/middle game

[white cedar]

that's true

[main cloak]

true

[white cedar]

scipio you're higher rated than me in rapid now

[normal heron]

:)

[main cloak]

but that said, as long as you don’t fall for the quick checkmate openings you aren’t gonna ruin your game just by not knowing openings

[median veldt]

if you are a beginner will you even get to the endgame ??

[normal heron]

Wait you are below 2k?

[white cedar]

no still 202

[normal heron]

I am at 1999 because one fish stole 15 elo from me. But I will get it soon

[white cedar]

also depends what they mean by beginner

[white cedar]

15 is absurd

[normal heron]

Well he was 1400

[normal heron]

What is a beginner for you?

[olive ibex]

starter

[white cedar]

i feel like its easier to describe a beginner with a set of qualities rather than a rating

[normal heron]

You make me curious

[white cedar]

there's also different degrees, like there's a true beginner who started chess today and there's a blooming beginner who's learning basic ideas and principles and playing more games

[normal heron]

So when is someone not a beginner anymore?

[olive ibex]

you just know how pieces move and work

[white cedar]

i feel like it's a bit of a gradient rather than a hard line but probably when they feel they can understand and teach some chess ideas to other people

im looking at the fish game

[normal heron]

"Your opening starts with 1.e4 and 2.Qh5 no matter what black does, trust me"

[olive ibex]

i believe its when he knows basic checkmates patterns and atleast one opening

[white cedar]

[normal heron]

I did play awful

[white cedar]

i like the chess.com loading screen facts

pretty cool that there hasn't been a checkmate in a world championship match in almost 80 years

[normal heron]

Pretty uncool to me

[olive ibex]

resignations

[white cedar]

i know

but still

[white cedar]

smh u missed center fork

even a 202 rated player like me saw

[normal heron]

Not my strength

I am not even sure how I would describe a beginner

[white cedar]

oh i just realized u missed a fork and then allowed one

[normal heron]

Obviously someone who knows the rules of chess, learned simple conceps and principles but doesn't know much in depth. Kinda imprecise 🤔

[normal heron]

The mate was very funny btw

I hung a bishop and he completely ignored it and went for M12

[white cedar]

its not the most absurd sequence in the world but i definitely wouldn't expect a 1500 to calculate it fully in 6 seconds

[white cedar]

this is a good description

[normal heron]

I would grab free material and not look for mate usually

[lyric pike]

openings

[broken dagger]

💀

[minor shard]

opening priciples first

then endgames

[broken dagger]

☠️

[gusty nova]

If by openings the pollster meant “Opening Principles” true, but opening theory is way less important for beginners than knowledge of endgame tactics is for example. The amount of emphasis beginners put on openings when it really doesn’t matter at that level is surprising

[urban garnet]

Openings are more important to beginners because under 800, most games probably don't even get to the endgame. It's either they checkmated in the middlegame, or blundered and haven't resigned yet and the endgame is just so 1 sided that knowing the tactics doesn't do much.

[gusty nova]

I mean knowing how to open is, but not really the opening that the player chooses or the extent of theory they know for said opening unless it’s a theory-heavier one like the Ruy Lopez or Ponziani.

[urban garnet]

opening principles are a must learn to get above 800

I'd say the opening matters if it's one of those trap heavy gambits

[smoky spruce]

opening princuples is not the same as studying openings bruh

[urban garnet]

they're both for the "opening" section of the game, and that's what the poll is asking for

[smoky spruce]

read the complete question, not just poll options

[urban garnet]

it's which one is more important to study opening or endgames

it doesn't say opening theory or anything

[smoky spruce]

study implies studying, 5 mins logic learning is not studying

[urban garnet]

what

that makes no sense

"learning is not studying

"

[smoky spruce]

ye im not explaining the point of qs rn, bye

[urban garnet]

ok bye

[cunning crown]

Openings no competition

[broken dagger]

me when beginner doesn't know how to checkmate with king and rook

[vernal yoke]

endgames is the correct answer period

[broken dagger]

w

[tawdry fractal]

Openings or Endgames? Both are essential pillars of chess mastery.

Part I: The Strategic Significance of Openings

Openings are the bedrock of your game, setting the tone like the opening lines of a novel. They involve specific moves to gain control and develop pieces efficiently. Advantages include familiarity, confidence, tempo, initiative, and avoiding traps.

Part II: Embracing the Complexity of Endgames

Endgames are the final chapters, where few pieces remain. Important for practicality, piece coordination, strategic thinking, patience, and calculation. Mastering endgames turns losses into draws and sharpens overall understanding.

Conclusion:
Based on my thoughts openings is a mastery you should learn more about as a total rookie. Getting the advantage at the start of the game is perfect and could lead you to an early win, however this doesn't indicate that a beginner shouldn't gain knowledge of endgames as early into their chess career. Mastering opening to a certain level has a very high chance that the game won't even transpose into an endgame. So this settles the case. My answer is Openings.

[normal heron]

What is the endgame worth when you are not able to reach it as beginner?

[vernal yoke]

id say you wont reach any mainline openings at a beginner level

[broken dagger]

I'm pretty sure beginners reach endgames

[tawdry fractal]

They do not the all fall for the schoolars mate

most

[normal heron]

But at least learn opening principles

[vernal yoke]

doesnt hurt to learn both but endgames are key

[tawdry fractal]

I forgot to add that 💀

[broken dagger]

once players fall for scholars mate once they're not going to again

[tawdry fractal]

they still do resign when they lose a knight or smt

[broken dagger]

resigning too early is a problem on it's own

[tawdry fractal]

True

[broken dagger]

the most basic endgame checkmates (two major pieces, queen, rook) should be one of the first things to learn

[tawdry fractal]

Chess principles tho?

[broken dagger]

in my opinion that is probably learned right after

but once principles are learned then you don't really have to do much more opening work until later

[tawdry fractal]

Tho there is still the opening thats first

[broken dagger]

wait I don't really understand what you just said sorry

lol

[smoky spruce]

principles can just come naturally form playing and watching a bit, it doesnt need to be the focus of studying 😂

[deep fable]

I think openings are much more consistent than endgames so that at least they know where to start, and then they can develop their actual chess skills to find out how to play endgames. if they play bad openings, they may not even encounter realistic end games lol.

[stable sparrow]

I think openings are more important because if a beginner doesn’t have sufficient knowledge of the opening, they are likely to just be losing in the middlegame, and while at a beginner level the game can still change from piece blunders n such, it seems more likely that endgame knowledge will not be as useful just because they won’t get to the endgame as much, whereas you use opening knowledge in every game. Idk though

[vale tendon]

If you screw up your opening there is no endgame

[viral heath]

opening - understanding opening principles etc. - not necessarily a specific opening. Also most games end before the endgame

[sage yacht]

bruh openings are mid

endgames

just know that e4 and knights are at high priority

then bisho

bishops*

there

the only good thing about openings

is traps

openings are trash, i don't know why people think they need em

just play solid

[bright crescent]

Endgames so you don't blunder all of the advantage you won by studying the openings

[forest spruce]

openings are heavily overstudied and you only need principles

[little haven]

REAL

Unless your name is Fabiano caruana and the year is 2012, stop studying openings so damn much 😭

[smoky spruce]

i see so many people who can be baited into stalemate 😂

[cerulean path]

this is why ur 1400-1599

[loud flare]

middle games

[minor shard]

never said they were bozo

[minor shard]

???????????

[cerulean path]

???????????????????

[proven iris]

you have to be lucky that they play your opening, with endgames you can do whatever

[sage yacht]

u aint even rated buddy

[cerulean path]

i do have a chess,com rating

[sage yacht]

bud you can't be speaking

💀💀💀💀💀💀💀

[cerulean path]

i can

[sage yacht]

show it then

[cerulean path]

i dont like showing my elo

but if u insist

[sage yacht]

LOL

[cerulean path]

ill show it for u

what do u want me to do? /profile?

[sage yacht]

idk or show a screenshot

[cerulean path]

ok

[sage yacht]

ah

you speak urdu?

[cerulean path]

yes

[sage yacht]

ah lol thought you were those trash 400 elos

[cerulean path]

ur indian?

[sage yacht]

now you got my respect

[sage yacht]

nahh

[cerulean path]

i used to be

[cerulean path]

[cerulean path]

pak?

[sage yacht]

nahh

[sage yacht]

Neither study tactics

[gusty nova]

Honestly yeah… this. If given a choice between opening theory and endgame principles I’d choose endgame principles though.

Although there is an argument to be made for opening principles being more important than endgame principles… on second thought I change my mind.

Opening Principles > Endgame Principles for beginners Imo since the latter barely exists and as such isn’t that essential for beginners outside of knowing how to checkmate with a King + Queen and the likes without drawing.

[quick narwhal]

its best to learn bongcloud cuz funni moment hehe

[void pilot]

ig this poll just shows that there's more beginners than experts in this server lol

[minor shard]

thats a given?

1800 is like 99th percentile which i find crazy tbh

[gusty nova]

If you look at it from the perspective of opening vs. endgame principles it’s correct Imo… although I’m neither an expert nor beginner.

[novel laurel]

this voting is hurting me man

[sweet beacon]

I see so much people trying to learn book moves by heart while not understanding at all the ideas of the opening: eg: people who plays a pseudo-najdorf at 1000 elo:

1. e4 c5 2. c3 d6?! 3.d4 a6?!
   So... endgames> openings

[worthy river]

Probably endgame cuz most endgames go over beginners heads like rook endgames or queen endgames. Opening is important aswell but the opening is more or less just adapting to your opponents moves rather than learning hard theory. You won't see a complicated opening like idk Catalan or grunfeld ig but you will see things like Italian game, ruy Lopez etc. I think it's better to focus in endgames more but you should focus on both equally if you wanna get better.

[tardy pecan]

if you study endgame instead of openings you cant get into endgame 🤷

also 400th opening vote

[smoky spruce]

one gets into endgame by properly playing middlegame, not opening 😂 😂

[errant wind]

openings

[scarlet apex]

Openings first priority
Agree???

[gusty nova]

one gets into middlegame by properly playing opening, not endgame 😂 😂

[smoky spruce]

no not really,, u can be 2 pieces down in oineing and still manage to get to endgame if u play properly

[gusty nova]

At lower levels yes but not at higher levels, and players should always be aiming to play as if they are a rank above where they are, not below.

[smoky spruce]

the question is about choosing to learn as a beginner

[gusty nova]

And beginners should be aiming to play as if they were intermediate/advanced not beginners

[smoky spruce]

openigs just not gonna help u get to intermediate/ advance if u dont hv enough calculation skill for middlegame and endgame

[gusty nova]

Scholar’s Mate works great against beginners for example but is unlikely to get you far in the long term even if you can beat beginners with it

[gusty nova]

Middlegame/Endgames are bound to be easier to think through if you open well, and from what I’ve seen personally beginners rarely find time to be their primary limiting factor.

[smoky spruce]

ye but i dont think u should spend time studying openings as beginener, defo better to focus on middlegame and endgame, u can just play oepnings by principle and trial and error

[gusty nova]

True. Said principles are very important to develop in themselves though. I think a lot of people think of “opening theory” when they think of working on openings rather than “opening principles”, both of which I presume are lumped together as one for the sake of this question.

[smoky spruce]

imo understanding basic logical opening principles is not the same as studying openings

[gusty nova]

Studying opening principles is one and the same with studying openings no?

Or at least a subcategory within studying openings

[smoky spruce]

opening principles is basically "how to play chess" section imo, wheres as studying openings would be opnieng theory

[gusty nova]

Which many beginners don’t really know how to do lol.

[smoky spruce]

how long would learning basic principle even take lol, i dont think that should be the point of this qs, but most people seem to think so 😂

[gusty nova]

What exactly are we even defining to be a beginner exactly? >500s or anybody under 1000?

Because (at least from what I’ve seen) most >500s do not have an adequate understanding of opening principles.

[smoky spruce]

i mean id say anyone below 1200 is a beginner
i even consider myself as a noob

[smoky spruce]

being below 500 just seems like lack of simple calculation and lack of attention span to me, perhaps memory too, cause u can literally play anything and know how to play an opening purely by trial and error below 1k

endgames would helpp learn calculation imo, and middle game is just more complicated of the same from learning perspective

everyone voting openings explain why so many unexpected stalemates happen 😂

[sweet beacon]

wait... according to the people ur mentioning, endgame= mating with rook? sacrilegious!

[smoky spruce]

no endgame isnt just mating 😂

[sweet beacon]

obviously

[dull lynx]

both

[burnt finch]

I got to where I'm at without any endgame knowledge at all (like I didn't even know that king and h/a pawn vs king is a draw most of the time until yesterday). For sure openings are more important until you know them.

[ancient sandal]

If you Are a begginer you need openings when you know ALL the openings you can learn about endgames

[burnt finch]

idk about all the openings lmao

"Mom, can I study endgames?" "No, Timmy! You haven't finished learning 40 moves of Nimzo theory yet!"

[broken dagger]

Chess Challenge: Grandmaster title without studying endgames speedrun

[smoky spruce]

😂

im a gothamchess watching noob, but ik endgames r more impotant 😂 😂

[bright river]

Guys why is this even a question when it’s so obvious??? For all the guys who say endgames, they might be forgetting that the question is for beginners. Can you imagine a 600 Elo player winning an entire game because “they got the opposition” or “got the opponents king in zugzwang”? Most beginners are up a piece (if not more) when they get to the endgame, and that’s if they even get to one.

[agile lava]

openings probably, real beginners dont make it past move 20 most of the time

[smoky spruce]

they dont get past move 20 cause they dont know ho to play middlegame which is essentially more complicated endgame 😂

and basically upto 1200 its all beginners imo

[agile lava]

i mean if the question was openings, middlegame, or endgame i'd definitely say middlegame

[agile lava]

idk there's a pretty big difference between a 600 and a 1200

[smoky spruce]

ye there is a difference, but in the overall picture, based on my perosnal experience, id say below 1200 is beginner, and im basing that on myself4

[agile lava]

opening principles + studying endgames

[smoky spruce]

ye sorta, tbh i just dont think oening principles as studying openings, its basically how to play chess section, and u can play out openings based on that with trial and error and hv plans in whatever u play. hence studying endgames

[hollow stag]

Openings only teach you set moves meant to be perfect, endgame knowledge teaches overall game sense and very all round good principles that even refer to the middlegame, clearly endgames are superior

[faint peak]

when does the game end? i guess not in the opening

[split cedar]

openings def

[bright river]

Wrong. When you learn openings how you’re meant to, you’re learning chess, not openings. Opening knowledge is CHESS knowledge. By saying that openings “only teach you set moves” indicates you haven’t learned openings correctly.

[digital forge]

I disagree but this is just a matter of how yoy define something. What you are referring to is one of the most useful things i agree. But id class it as learning middle game ideas for different openings.

[spare hemlock]

I could be biased in my opinion as Im ok with openings but I suck at endgames so I personally think endgames are more important

[digital forge]

Openings to me means the book moves which lead to a position, and while there is positional opportunity and tactical motifs which come from different openings those are still middle games (and to a lesser extent endgames)

[tender grail]

L take

[pulsar gale]

Openings obviously

[feral flame]

Openings are better to study because beginners blunder before they make it to the endgames, so it is more useful to have a strong starting position that they can try to checkmate / gain material in the middle game with

[bright river]

IMO you can’t separate learning the opening and learning the middlegame. They are intertwined which means that you have to learn them together

[hollow stag]

No you are only talking about the opening THEORY, openings by themselves are just a set of moves leading to a theoretical position depicted as "perfect"

And also the middlegame is in no way intertwined

You can't call a set of book moves the same as a section in the game with tactics and a transition to the opening of the board and eventual endgame, otherwise its like saying there is only the opening and endgame

The middlegame opens up to tactics and the end of set moves which is in no way able to be described as theory already set

The only link between an opening and the early middlegame stage is the tactical ideas your learned openings may give, and that is all but it

And just to consolidate my point, the apparent opinion of "beginners not even making it to the endgame" makes no sense as each consecutive blunder will happen against someone of the same calibre

Yes the game may reach a grave blunder which the opponent may capitalise on, however any of the winning moves will, at a beginners level, indefinitely be missed

So at the stage where you are mainly advised to not lose pieces and play to consolidate the position, you won't just give a silly excuse of a point to negate the benefits of endgame knowledge

[split cedar]

maybe

[dire grove]

I feel that both are important

but if I had to pick one it would be endgame

even if a beginner knows the opening he will just blunder in the middle game

endgame decide the entire match at the end

what use is opening if you will lose/draw because you don't know how to win basic endgames

some games do end in the middlegame and opening tho

[split cedar]

my endgames SUCK

[fluid kettle]

I think that openings are more important, because they set your pieces already on good or bad places, and it all depends on the opening