networking

[unborn sluice]

@tame carbon how many monitors you have btw

[tame carbon]

2

@thorny vector see, this is why Phoenix gets upset: https://i.imgur.com/DEAeRhu.png

[unborn sluice]

what's the context of this lel

[tame carbon]

I just...

@unborn sluice code 56 in windows device manager

[unborn sluice]

I thought phoenix left cause of the people in #development

[tame carbon]

he cant get his network device to work

[thorny vector]

Oh, with that dude having networking issues? Error 56, just some driver issues

[tame carbon]

@unborn sluice oh wait that's right xD

@thorny vector so I've said

[unborn sluice]

@unborn sluice code 56 in windows device manager
@tame carbon oh lel, definitely because of cable

[tame carbon]

but people in general think its fixed in bios

[unborn sluice]

[tame carbon]

like

its 9:45am

I am only on my first cup of coffee

aint got the nerves for this

[thorny vector]

But don't you know, all problems are fixed it the bios? /s

[tame carbon]

@thorny vector I don't see how resetting a bios is going to solve anything

[thorny vector]

I wouldn't expect it to. I dropped him a guide to follow, so 🤷‍♂️

[tame carbon]

ip link set dev eth0 up

if only it was that easy on windoze

[thorny vector]

Honestly, my biggest pet peeve are the people that ask for people to build them a parts list with vague crap as guides

And it is. WITH POWERSHELL!

[tame carbon]

are you a hacker?

[thorny vector]

Hardly.

[unborn sluice]

he's that guy that uses powershell in linux

[tame carbon]

omg xD

is that even a thing>

[unborn sluice]

it is, but he's the answer to

[tame carbon]

pretty sure commandlets in ps are just .NET programs

[unborn sluice]

"Who tf uses this"

[thorny vector]

For a good reason, the PowerCLI powershell module is super powerful when controlling VMware products

[tame carbon]

@thorny vector fuuuuck

I hated that.

omfg

I had to make a custom ESX image for some raid controller

on windows 7

windows 7 PS does not have package manager by default

so took me about an hour to get PowerCLI to work

after which I could use esx customizer

garbage.

[thorny vector]

I have a script lying around somewhere that uses powershell 1.0 commands to pull and install the latest powershell version

[tame carbon]

I don't use vmware anymore for that reason

Its all QEMU/KVM now

[thorny vector]

Why? Those don't scale out well.

[tame carbon]

heh

they are kernel VMs

[thorny vector]

esxi and vsphere, on the other hand, are amazingly powerful

Not like I'm using workstation

[tame carbon]

you have to pay for workstation on linux

[thorny vector]

Unless you attend their conferences, where they gave out workstation 16 keys

[tame carbon]

or

use FOSS

and not give a crap about vmware

they put all kinds of arbitrary limits on their software

like 1 cpu socket max

[thorny vector]

What? no

Just need to get a liscense

[tame carbon]

... exactly

[thorny vector]

200 dollars a year for a VMUG dev liscense for all products

[tame carbon]

Pay for hardware.

Software is free

[thorny vector]

equivalent to the enterprise line

i'll pay 200 bucks a year for support and dev. Easy peasy.

[tame carbon]

I don't really do closed source software

[thorny vector]

Plus, its what is used in our forensic kits, and by almost every customer we have

[tame carbon]

and vmware putting all kinds of licensing on their kit, makes me look elsewhere

for single server vm hosting, QEMU/KVM is perfect

if you need scaling, Proxmox

[thorny vector]

Trust me, VMware liscensing is by far one of the milder buisness models we deal with

[tame carbon]

mild?

oh yeah

windows.

[thorny vector]

Not really?

KMS keys are amazing

[tame carbon]

I like how microsoft forces a full Office-365 license on every employee

[thorny vector]

Again, no?

Single kms key

[tame carbon]

yeah, which cost a lot ;)

and its a subscription based service

[thorny vector]

Not standalone kms solutions. Those are buy and be done. Just have to get new ones for any new products

[tame carbon]

isnt that the same as a subscription?

They drop support

and in a few years, they'll find a way to force their new software on older customers

[thorny vector]

No. Support is good for the life of the product

[tame carbon]

yes.

and that life is maybe 3 years

[thorny vector]

lol

they'll still support old office products

and even windows 7 still can be supported, if you buy the extended support

[tame carbon]

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/end-of-support/end-of-support-2020

One of my friends was quite salty about this

they just paid over 15k for Microsoft Dynamics

and its already being phased out, 2 years after release

[thorny vector]

No, its moved to extended support

[tame carbon]

Irrelevant, its still planned obsolesence

so you can't build on it reliably

without being forced to pay microsoft

[thorny vector]

Its not planned obsolesence at all. Its natural progression of products. Planned obsolesence is if the products just stopped working after the end of support

[tame carbon]

yes

the essence of cloud services.

[thorny vector]

and lemme tell you about some of the old products i get to deal with with some customers

[tame carbon]

This is just a fundamental problem with all closed source

it cares more about making a buck, than it cares about delivering a reliable software experience

[thorny vector]

Open source has its place, and its amazing. But closed source products often have much more reliable support.

[tame carbon]

@thorny vector say that to redhat

[thorny vector]

Really? I've had nothing but good expiriences with them

Good enough I went ahead and got my own subscription for home

[tame carbon]

Redhat shares all sourcecode with their customers

Their entire business model is built around support

[thorny vector]

Redhat/Centos/Fedora is a different story.

[tame carbon]

microsoft just writes a program, calls it "finished"

[thorny vector]

I think we're just at different ends of the user spectrum, and we're going to fundamentally disagree on a lot

[tame carbon]

puts it on a CD

and sells it for an insane markup

and drops support 2 years later

or release a new version for the same price, the next year

scratch that, lets make it a subscription

@thorny vector yeah, seems like it

I see the use in software, only in the problems it solves in our lives

this is why I dont understand why you would pay for an operating system

it doesn't solve a problem

you need it to run other programs

[thorny vector]

Yes, and I'll pay for it, because someone put work hours into making it

even the linux distros I use, I support the devs

pop_os, I bought a laptop

Redhat/centos, bought a subscription

[tame carbon]

mh. see thats good business

[thorny vector]

VMware, bought a liscense

[tame carbon]

I just wish if I bought something, I'd have full control over it

and not get "the right to use it"

@thorny vector open source & free market forces don't play well together

they fundamentally oppose eachother

[thorny vector]

They also operate in different market spaces

[tame carbon]

If it wasn't for FOSS, apple would not be where it is today

same goes for Microsoft

Apple makes heavy use of GNU utils

[thorny vector]

Ok. But I can call microsoft engineers, or vmware engineers. Its a lot harder for me to track down dev_guy_23 who helped make "x" distro/program.

[tame carbon]

but you can look at the source

same can't be said for microsoft

and if you have a problem

you can fix it yourself

or pay someone to fix it for you

[thorny vector]

So I can spend the time teaching myself enough to read through the source, and understand every product that I use on a daily basis. Or I can focus on my job, and have support do supports job

[tame carbon]

Yes, this is why companies like redhat exist

except they don't shaft you at every opportunity ;)

https://www.zdnet.com/article/dutch-government-pays-millions-to-extend-microsoft-xp-support/

Like, my taxes go to this BS.

only because they got a chokehold on the govt.

[thorny vector]

I'd hardly say microsoft, vmware, and the half dozen other products I use are shafting me.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/dutch-government-pays-millions-to-extend-microsoft-xp-support/
@tame carbon Also, millions? Drop in the bucket to take care of critical, air-gapped systems

[tame carbon]

and then the next year

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2015/04/dutch-pay-microsoft-a-further-e1-7m-to-support-windows-xp/

[thorny vector]

Sounds like a good deal to me

[tame carbon]

what is this bullshit?!

[thorny vector]

Again, that amount of money is barely anything at these scales

[tame carbon]

like, government operation, we should be in control of our own source.

and not pay some spying american company

[thorny vector]

A single one of our larger forensic kits cost more than what they're paying for support.

[tame carbon]

We're talking about an operating system here

and a government paying 10s of millions

to use an operating system.

its

rediculous.

[thorny vector]

Again, that's like you spending pennies

[tame carbon]

yeah but it doesnt solve the problem

in 2 years, we're still in the same boat

using windows xp

wasting money

[thorny vector]

🤷‍♂️

[tame carbon]

if we had our own source, we could employ our own experts

and if you give them 10 million, as we do with microsoft

[thorny vector]

All those systems, and the old software and hardware they have to use, aren't going anywhere.

[tame carbon]

they can solve it too.

[thorny vector]

Not because some evil company is holding them hostage, but because infrastructure and technologies made in ye olden times don't like talking to modern equipment

So the support is neccesary

[maiden widget]

https://www.zdnet.com/article/dutch-government-pays-millions-to-extend-microsoft-xp-support/
@tame carbon happiness noises

[thorny vector]

Support, that sounds an awful like redhat

[tame carbon]

@thorny vector but we can stop paying redhat at any time, and put our own smart people on it

because we have the sourcecode.

same cant be said for windows

[thorny vector]

Cool. But that requires paying people and training them up so they can do the support themselves. Which would end up costing more

[tame carbon]

Its like right to repair.

[thorny vector]

And you do have that right as a consumer (or at least you should. Looking at you, john deere). But things operate differently at the corperate/enterprise/government level

We do use open source stuff, but sometimes the most economical thing is to just get the plug and play solution

because we don't have time to train up all of our users to be power users

or the money

(or patience)

[tame carbon]

@thorny vector at a lot of companies, office computers can be linux these days

a lot of software uses webinterfaces

[thorny vector]

Can be. You have fun training those users/dealing with their complaints/etc.

[tame carbon]

honestly, if you have a good and well set up device

its more reliable

and a webbrowser is the same on all

like you said, people are not power users

they dont want to have to think about errors

[thorny vector]

I do want to say I do agree with what you said. But in practice, that's not how it works

[tame carbon]

sadly yeah

because everyone is so hooked on office lol

[thorny vector]

And how stuff looks, and other utilities they're used to, how file explorer works for windows, etc

[tame carbon]

If people can figure out how to use a mac

or use their phone

I'm sure they will survive a different DE

[thorny vector]

Mac users arent windows users

[tame carbon]

cinnamon desktop is much like windows

I've seen plenty of non savvy users who do just fine on both

[rose sparrow]

Hello
I have my ISP providing NATed ipv4

I wanted to do port forwarding

Is there any chance I can do that?

[unborn sluice]

you mean CGNAT ip?

[tame carbon]

@rose sparrow if you are behind a NAT, you wont be able to port forward

[spiral drift]

Stupid n00b question, what do you guys use to test ISP speeds? I've been using the m-lab speed test that's a promoted google result

[peak cloak]

for theordical max speeds ookla

aka speedtest.net

for lan speedtest iperf

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak someone nuked my speedtests from last night

I think we need to amend the rule of not posting speedtests

if the techies get to post benchmarks, then let us have our speedtests

[peak cloak]

just show screenshots from cli https://discordapp.com/channels/375436620578684930/387022787480387605/776236202536992769

[tame carbon]

@spiral drift speedtest for public internet, iperf for validating throughput in network equipment

speedtest is bad tool for very high speed connections

that screenshot I posted last night, with the 2gbit/s internet

that connection is way faster than what speedtest claims

[thick minnow]

can someone tell me if this is any good

or bad

[tame carbon]

Is this LTE?

not really familair with it

but 500-700MHz looks like LTE to me

@thick minnow do you have an issues?

because to me, looks good

signal to noise ratio is above 30 throughout

[thick minnow]

@tame carbon it’s wifi.... sometimes i can’t even load youtube or a website i have to restart the app just for it too load and when playing warzone i keep lagging of someone watches a 1440p or 4k youtube video. I have 1gig down and 50upload

[tame carbon]

@thick minnow use lan cables

wifi is crap

it can't really carry that much bandwidth consistently

one or two clients at same time on one AP you push up at the 800mbit/s limit

5GHz has more channels, and is more stable

But it does not penetrate walls

or, bad at least, stone it cant penetrate, drywall might work

especially consumer wifi routers

those are terrible

asus

they should be ban those routers

[thick minnow]

@tame carbon it’s a cable modem... my isp is cable so it’s cable from the wall into the modem and then an ethernet to my orbi

that’s what i mean

[tame carbon]

yeah you aren't going to get 1gbit/s over wifi though

[thick minnow]

i know

i get 701

601*

over wifi... ethernet to my pc i have never gotten over 750

[tame carbon]

mh

gimme 15 mins

Ill brb xD

(ingame)

[thick minnow]

is the corrected and uncorrectables good like?

[tame carbon]

@thick minnow over gigabit lan you should get max speed

if its coaxial cable

its shared bandwidth

idk so much about that

[night quail]

Sup people with internet

Idk man use a cable

[crisp shell]

Hi, I have an old Sitecom md 254 NAS. I'm having some problems with write speed. I'm only getting ~11MB/s. So you would say the NAS's running at a 100mbit. However, when I look in the "Connection Log" it says: eth0: link up, 1000Mbps, full-duplex, not using pause, Ipa 0xC1E1. I'm using a CAT6 cable and I tried 6 different cables. I'm not sure where the problem's at. I don't think it's in my PC, switch or router. Since I can access a shared hard drive on my laptop at 1000Mbps-103MB/s read and write (while using Ethernet). Every PC in my house has a max write speed of ~11MB/s on the NAS. The read speed is different. Sometimes it's 28MB/s and an hour later it's 14MB/s (same file).

I'm using Jumbo Frames and a MTU value of 4074 bytes. Changing this or disabling Jumbo Frames doesn't make a difference. If I look at the specs it says it has a gigabit rj45 connector and sata-300. Maybe the sata-300 link is the problem? It's certainly not the HDD's that are installed. When connecting them to my PC I'm getting 121MB/s read and 98MB/s write. The drives run in RAID1, but that doesn't impact the speed that much right?

I can't find anything in my router/NAS settings that limits the speed

[nova igloo]

maybe because u maxed out the NAS' ram cache?

try wait an hour later, then try again?

[karmic sapphire]

anyone has any experience with the eero 6 mesh wifi system

[nova igloo]

wow this is so coincidence

[thick minnow]

So i’m supposed to be getting fiber internet... what kind of modem do i need? because idk if a cable modem is gonna work

if u know @ me

[open forge]

Do you know if your internet provider provides the modem? @thick minnow

Because I wouldn't think that they would just bring you the fiber and tell you to get it working yourself

It usually comes with the modem and they install it for you, sometimes even the router is integrated in the modem they provide

[thick minnow]

I have no clue if they do, last week they brought a cable modem so i don’t see how fiber is supposed to work with it @open forge

[open forge]

What is your provider?

[thick minnow]

Suddenlink 😒

Altice

[open forge]

EQUIP, TAXES & FEES: Free standard installation with online orders, visit suddenlink.com/installation for details. Modem-lease will be charged $10.00 a month. Free Smart Router available with leased modem. Limit 1 router per household. A $3.50 Network Enhancement Fee applies. Surcharges, taxes, plus certain add'l charges and fees will be added to bill, and are subject to change during and after promotion period. Min system req's & equip configs apply.

So you can lease their router + modem for 10$/month and not bother with it

[thick minnow]

yeah but i want to use my own, last time i used their i couldn’t be use the internet

what i’m trying to say is do i need a new modem if i’m getting fiber because i have a cable modem right now

[open forge]

Yes since your modem is probably to get a coax signal to an ethernet signal

[thick minnow]

do u know what modem would be best for fiber-optic speeds?

[open forge]

You just need a Gigabit Media Converter

https://www.amazon.ca/-/fr/TP-Link-MC220L-Converter-1000Mbps-MiniGBIC/dp/B003CFATL0

ex

Then you have to configure your router to instruct it how to connect to their network

[thick minnow]

bruh

[open forge]

You will need a username and password that is different from your account that you use to connect to their website

[thick minnow]

what about a FTTP?

[open forge]

That's what I assumed you were going to receive

[thick minnow]

i’ll just wait until a technician comes and see what they will do i guess

thanks you for your time

i need help with 1 more thing @open forge

[hollow marlin]

With fiber it will be an ONT instead of a modem. If you want to purchase one instead of rent I would ask the ISP a head of time a list of approved ONTs. The techs typically do not know which ones are compatible

[thick minnow]

ah.... so the would the ONT go to my orbi or what? @hollow marlin

[hollow marlin]

Yes. An ONT is the same concept as a modem. If you purchase your own you will need to configure it and just plug your router in

[peak cloak]

Verizon for example doesn't allow users to buy their own ONT's as it's a GPON network so it needs to do their own thing

[thick minnow]

So i would probably just use my own isp ONT if that’s what they do....

Also ever since i had a technician come to my house my wifi has been acting up and i look at the modem they messed with me there’s a lot of corrected and uncorrected things

anyone know how to fix from there being 1 thousand to over 100k

[hollow marlin]

This means there is a physical issue on the incoming COAX. Either a bad splitter, bad/broken cable, bad booster, etc... Basically this is what your ISP would handle on fixing.

[thick minnow]

So is there anything i can do to fix this?

also the power being negative?

[hollow marlin]

Not necessarily. Also -db power levels are normal, it tells you the signal strength which over distance will degrade.

[thick minnow]

alrighty, thank you

[flat lion]

Any ideas why I can't seem to ping but can resolve DNS requests in a x86-to-aarch64 chroot (facilitated by /usr/bin/qemu-aarch64-static)?

[waxen scroll]

@clear igloo so close boiis.... UBNT rock solid. no UPS

[spiral drift]

@tame carbon @peak cloak New APs came today, hEX S won't come for a couple more days

[peak cloak]

nice

[little schooner]

@waxen scroll they finally gave me remote access so I can work from home in case another shutdown wave comes in

[tribal ferry]

I need some advice here with my networking plan.

I’m really trying to get my pricing under $600, so I need to find out how to knock off $184 somehow.

I have gig speed internet and need to deliver it to devices, and I’m really trying to get a rackmount router for my future rack.

I looked into TP-link business AP’s that would suit my needs, but for roaming and “mesh” functionally you seem to need an $80 controller which would void any cost savings from using it over the MicroTik AP’s.

Honestly at this point I don’t care who this hardware is from, router and AP can be entirely different brands as long as I can get it in my budget.

MOCA adapters are for two of the APs, since my house was built in 1980 and is not wired with Ethernet except for a cable running to my downstairs switch.

[uncut plover]

from what i can say, tp link makes quality products

i got a pcie network adapter from them and it works great

[tribal ferry]

I agree, but there’s no cost savings with it.

If there’s no savings with it then I would just feel better off using AP’s already integrated into routerOS

Less points of failure and complexity

[uncut plover]

i’m not very knowledgeable about this stuff so i would check with someone else tbh

[tribal ferry]

Alright, thanks

It’s more just finding equivalents to bring down the price rather than technical assistance

Will wait for someone who knows more.

[stuck hawk]

@tribal ferry If you want cheaper decent APs with WiFi 5/ac, you could go with these for $50 each: https://www.google.com/shopping/product/705792687920812625?q=rt-ac66u&safe=active&hl=en&tbs=vw:l,ss:44&sxsrf=ALeKk03PcGvY3SdAy0XUUBHYW6_XPbdoDQ:1605245390767&psb=1&prds=eto:9957042279323755990_0,cdl:1,prmr:1,cs:1

ASUS RT-AC1200 V2

[tribal ferry]

One of the main issues is that I need multiple of these.

Roaming/mesh/whatever they call it

I’m not sure if those would support it

[stuck hawk]

They might not. I think you might have your best deal then @70 per AP.

[tribal ferry]

The only way to bring down my pricing is with getting a cheaper router then.

[stuck hawk]

Only downside I experience with non-mesh for 3 APs is sometimes my mobile devices dont drop weaker connections sooner.

[tribal ferry]

I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place with me having to get the MOCA adapters.

Yeah, that’s why I need ones that specifically support it.

[hexed vault]

If you are talking about client roaming from AP to AP - I'm quite sure mikrotik doesn't have that.

[tribal ferry]

I believe they do after hearing it from a couple members yesterday

[stuck hawk]

However, a different ASUS router of mine does allow for setting reception threshholds for forcing a connected device to drop & try elsewhere. I forget the feature name.

[tribal ferry]

Fast roaming?

If my house was wired with Ethernet even slightly more than now I’d be a-ok with pricing.

[hexed vault]

They have CAPsMAN to manage multiple AP. And have something like zero provisioning for them, not actual mobility

[tribal ferry]

The adapters are what cripple my budget.

Yes, all the traffic would be routed to the main router with CAPsMAN

[stuck hawk]

My ASUS RT-AC66U calls it "Roaming Assistant"

[tribal ferry]

Yeah, I know each brand calls it different

[stuck hawk]

Helpful with cutting off weak 5GHz connections so they'll go to 2GHz or a different AP

[tribal ferry]

Mesh is not a unanimous term between all brands, they mean different things wherever you go

cAP lite doesn’t seem good either, it’s not powerful enough for me

[flint matrix]

Don’t get bad mesh

Get real APS

[tame carbon]

@tribal ferry get cAP ac

those aren't limited to 100M

@stuck hawk kicking off a client because of signal strength is really annoying.

Some clients refuse to swap APs, and will try to reconnect

giving you the classic meme

https://pics.me.me/wifi-connected-me-then-fucking-act-like-it-5-25-18-44353611.png

if you want true roaming capabilities, you'll have to get an AP that is compliant with 802.11ak/r

sadly mikrotik is not

CAPsMAN makes life easier, I don't trust ASUS one bit.

[unborn sluice]

just get ethernet

and a long-ass cable

no need to roam wifi

[tame carbon]

Yeah

I don't bother with complicated wireless setups

I just plug cable into laptop :3

@unborn sluice I got a long laptop charging cable under my desk, with a lan cable velcro'd to it

both ports are next to eachother :)

[unborn sluice]

I kinda imagine it putting the cable in the ceiling

like in VR setups

[tame carbon]

on rails lol

[unborn sluice]

exactly

[dusky wigeon]

Fucking hate non configurable switches

Why do we even have these

[tame carbon]

@dusky wigeon heh.

layer 2 doesnt need configuration :)

[dusky wigeon]

Its still annoying when 4 pcs are on one switch but in software they all have same IP

[unborn sluice]

why would you blame a switch for that

[nova igloo]

Fucking hate non configurable switches
@dusky wigeon Thats HUB i guess?

Its still annoying when 4 pcs are on one switch but in software they all have same IP
@dusky wigeon But they have different Internal Ip

[tame carbon]

@dusky wigeon they shouldnt have the same IP.

switches dont care about IP

switches talk ethernet, not IP

[unborn sluice]

poor switches getting the blame for no reason

[nova igloo]

Dont we distribute Internal IPs on switches?

[tame carbon]

no

switches switch ethernet frames

layer 2 uses only two mechanisms, LLC and MAC

IP is layer 3

[nova igloo]

Then its the router which distributing the IPs ?

[unborn sluice]

technically crystal is right, but basically if your idea is dhcp server -> switch -> pc then yes

[nova igloo]

But dont we connect like this
HOST/PC -> Switch -> Router -> Network(WAN)

[unborn sluice]

what does WAN have to do with IP distribution

[nova igloo]

just a a diagram of the connections from PC to the WAN

[unborn sluice]

well, crystal is right

[nova igloo]

Yeah, its right

but i mean myself are confused IPs/DHCP distribute are happened on Switch or Router

[unborn sluice]

why would a router distribute IP

[nova igloo]

Then who is distributing the IPs

the Internal

[unborn sluice]

I think it's john

[nova igloo]

lol

I mean doing the DHCP stuff

[unborn sluice]

the DHCP server does the DHCP stuff

[nova igloo]

Yeah who is running the DHCP server

[unborn sluice]

the engineers

[nova igloo]

or both of them can

[unborn sluice]

it's the DHCP server

[nova igloo]

Yeah so the DHCP is on router

[unborn sluice]

can be

not necessarily

[nova igloo]

So single layer switch is just a extension cord

[tame carbon]

@nova igloo there's a reason we call these things "protocol stacks"

there's various protocols stacked ontop of eachother

ethernet makes sure we can transfer data between two devices

it takes care of what we call a 'LAN'

when a device connects to a LAN, it sends out a DHCP broadcast

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/DHCP_session.svg/800px-DHCP_session.svg.png

client announces itself with discovery broadcast

the server then offers an IP it could use

the client then requests an IP it'd like, either using the one it had previously, or using the one offered by the server

the server acknowledges the request, and the client sets its IP

@nova igloo to make sure the right ethernet frame goes to the right computer, MAC is used

Media Access Controll

switches have a table internally, and they know which MAC is connected on which port

so when an ethernet frame comes in, it just looks at the destination MAC

and forwards the frame

@nova igloo that image you sent is wrong in so many ways xD

NAT has nothing to do with address allocation

[unborn sluice]

wdym it looks so legit

[dusky wigeon]

Learning so much just by reading

[tame carbon]

This is what the DHCP client that talks to my ISP

https://i.imgur.com/eeQs6JV.png

And locally, you have your own DHCP server

https://i.imgur.com/4qD7Wwe.png

you can see the pool of addresses on the left

https://i.imgur.com/71cGsCV.png

you can have multiple pools

I got like 3 dhcp servers running on my router

or just ditch this entirely

and use ipv6

you don't need NAT and DHCP

[nova igloo]

Maybe different ISP using different topology???

[unborn sluice]

wdym

[tame carbon]

wat

most networks are star toplogy

[unborn sluice]

do you think the ISP uses a different protocol?

(disregard auth crap)

[tame carbon]

https://wiki.bas-ip.com/files/en/8554576/33947652/4/1564382818846/star.png

star topology ^

@unborn sluice original ethernet was bus topology xD

https://i.imgur.com/VXp4OSh.png

only one device could talk at any one time

and they use CSMA/CD to make sure collisions are avoided

[unborn sluice]

I mean who doesn't want getting spammed by packets to drop

[tame carbon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier-sense_multiple_access_with_collision_detection

[unborn sluice]

ah yes collision detection

haven't heard that in a while

[tame carbon]

CSMA/CD isnt really a thing in networks anymore

[unborn sluice]

I wonder if the next generation would hear about how HUBs work

[tame carbon]

because we have full duplex gigabit on switches

[unborn sluice]

because we have full duplex gigabit on switches
thank you smart people for bringing the cost down

even the cheapest one in the online shopping is switch

[tame carbon]

:D https://i.imgur.com/PP8ClwQ.png

[unborn sluice]

2.5G

👀

[tame carbon]

pretty sure the new ones are updated

if I update to the new routerOS

40G should also be listed now

[unborn sluice]

what the flying fuck

[tame carbon]

https://i.mt.lv/cdn/rb_images/1937_l.jpg

new routerboards ^

25G, my mistake

https://i.imgur.com/dZ7cAR7.png

[unborn sluice]

someone sells hapac3 for 285.45 USD

what the fuck is this inflated prices

[tame carbon]

scalps?

[unborn sluice]

sellers looks like chinese

not being racist but

Atleast the hap lite is cheap

[tame carbon]

here, chinese is synonym for 'cheap garbage'

the kind of stuff you can buy on ali

really is cheap garbage

@unborn sluice I'm surprised LTT got the aliexpress PC to boot lol

[unborn sluice]

haven't watched that

is that secret shopper?

[tame carbon]

nah it was a while back

[unborn sluice]

lel I don't know sht about these titles

[tame carbon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0JuW6x8lsw

[unborn sluice]

i just want to watch building pcs

welp, i'm off to youtube to watch that

hap ac3 still not in newegg

[tame carbon]

@unborn sluice if ur not watching

https://youtu.be/V0JuW6x8lsw?t=679

at least watch the B-roll

I timestamped it for ya

[unborn sluice]

I'm literally watching

the whole thing

oh wait hapac3 only has 1PoE

@tame carbon a store in my store in my country is on the fucking sea

maybe I should swim to buy hap ac3

[tribal ferry]

@tame carbon Already planning to.

That's what I have in my plan, I was just seeing if there is anything cheaper.

[tame carbon]

@tribal ferry not for dual band APs

[tribal ferry]

What should I get then?

[tame carbon]

You're looking for just wireless APs right?

Really depends on what spec you need

just 2.4GHz is relatively cheap

but dualband (with 5GHz) gets expensive quickly

mostly because those APs have gigabit ethernet instead of fast

[tribal ferry]

Yep, I do need dual band.

[tame carbon]

cAP ac

is a good AP

[tribal ferry]

And then I have the MOCA adapters, which puts me over budget by $184

[tame carbon]

it has two gigabit ethernet ports

MOCA?

[tribal ferry]

Yep, it is.

[tame carbon]

that stuff is so expensive lol

[tribal ferry]

Yep.

My house is not wired for ethernet

[tame carbon]

why not wire it up then/

[tribal ferry]

If I won the lottery then maybe, lol

[tame carbon]

Oh, rented ?

[tribal ferry]

No.

It's an owned house

It just wouldn't be cheap

[tame carbon]

UTP cables arent that expensive

And you don't need that much

[tribal ferry]

It's not a single story home, either. Two story including a basement.

And a finished attic

And a half finished basement.

[tame carbon]

You guys renovating?

[tribal ferry]

We are, yeah.

New kitchen going in soon.

[tame carbon]

This is the prime time to toss some network cables in the wall

[tribal ferry]

The largest we're going to do is this kitchen, there's no major structural changes.

Upstairs in the bedrooms, it's just going to be wallpaper removal, plastering holes, and paint.

[tame carbon]

Idk what those tools are called in english

but if you're doing plaster

you can cut grooves into the wall

run the cable through it, and then cover it with plaster

[tribal ferry]

It's just patching holes - not replastering

[peak cloak]

if you are doing drywall and painting that is the time to do cabling

[tame carbon]

Thats what I did

[tribal ferry]

Painting is all we're doing upstairs.

[tame carbon]

do cables, then plaster, then paint

[peak cloak]

you just need a couple of holes

[unborn sluice]

[tame carbon]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Einhell_TC-MA_1300.JPG/1280px-Einhell_TC-MA_1300.JPG

You need one of these

[tribal ferry]

I can probably run a cable to my study if I put a switch in the top of my basement.

[tame carbon]

Called a "Wall chaser"

it cuts a groove into the wall

you can run cables through them, and then cover them up

unless you are a dennis

and you don't use powertools

[peak cloak]

I just fished cables

[tame carbon]

@tribal ferry those cAPs also support PoE, so you only need a networking cable to the AP location

[peak cloak]

you will probobly save yourself some frustration doing it the way crystal said

[tame carbon]

so you can wallmount the AP, with no visible cables

https://i.mt.lv/cdn/rb_images/1450_l.jpg

[tribal ferry]

I mean, possibly.

[tame carbon]

it looks harder than it really is

[tribal ferry]

It might just be easier to pay extra with the MOCA

[tame carbon]

if it works that is

@tribal ferry or

you find the duct that the coaxial uses

pull it out, and run ethernet instead

I didnt want to deal with running 5+ cables from my network cabinet to the other side of the building

so I run a single fiber

and split onto copper on the other side

[tribal ferry]

Yeah, I've thought about doing it before but fiber seems entirely overkill for me.

I only have 1gbps speed from Xfinity.

[tame carbon]

@tribal ferry fiber is actually not that overkill lol

its futureproof

$18 per transceiver (you need two) and $5 for a fiber

[peak cloak]

problem with fiber is that sfp + pcie cards are expensive

but that's for 10 gig

[tame carbon]

SFP+ is expensive yes

SFP isnt

[peak cloak]

true

[tame carbon]

you can get media converters for SFP

those cost like $20

[peak cloak]

I got one for free, but I only have one

and no fiber cable

and no real use

for now

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak we got the TV & wifi AP in the living room, and there's 0 cables visible :)

TV is in an enclosure, and when you press button to turn it on

it moves up, james bond villain style

[tribal ferry]

Crystal, do you have a multi-AP setup?

[peak cloak]

AP in the stairwell (center of house), TV uses roku, no cables visible either

that's fancy

[tame carbon]

@tribal ferry not currently, but I plan on doing so

[peak cloak]

we don't really watch much tv

[tame carbon]

@tribal ferry I do manage my AP with CAPs

[tribal ferry]

What do you have?

cAP ac?

[tame carbon]

I have an RB4011 as core router

and hAP ac2

for home wifi

I chose the hAP because it has 5x gigabit, and I needed to hook up the TV settop, and smart TV

it also sends out wifi

@tribal ferry https://i.imgur.com/km3o10v.png

hAP ac2 ^

[tribal ferry]

Ah ok

[tame carbon]

I was thinking about putting an mAP in my bedroom

since signal is kinda bad, 2 walls inbetween

https://i.mt.lv/cdn/rb_images/1161_l.jpg

These are incredibly cheap

[tribal ferry]

Seems to be only 2.4 ghz

[tame carbon]

100M max yes

I only use wifi for my phone

@tribal ferry all mikrotik APs can be used as CAPs

https://i.imgur.com/QbHp5Ns.png

I got like 4 mikrotiks :)

[tribal ferry]

I think with my current setup, it's the cheapest I can do

Microtik is already low-priced enough.

unless if I want to run those ethernet cables

[tame carbon]

@tribal ferry I have my doubts on the reliability of MOCA

[tribal ferry]

It seems to get full gig speeds.

if your coax is rg-51

[tame carbon]

Its not really something a consumer deploys

[tribal ferry]

or whatever it needs to be

https://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-MoCA-Network-Adapter-Ethernet/dp/B088KVYZGK/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=moca+adapter&qid=1605273180&sr=8-1-spons

[tame carbon]

yeah

but $90

and you need two.

[tribal ferry]

Three*

[tame carbon]

And this is assuming, it works without a hitch.

[tribal ferry]

More, if my home has the correct coax wiring.

[tame carbon]

Are you really going to bet on that?

Gigabit ethernet is less failure prone

[tribal ferry]

Let me get the poorly drawn diagrams

One second

[tame carbon]

Just saying

I think MOCA is a dirty solution to your problem

if you are renovating, maybe just run some ethernet

[tribal ferry]

Red dots are where AP's will be.

Orange is my downstairs switch.

[tame carbon]

bruh

wat

[tribal ferry]

poorly drawn

lmao

with microsoft paint

[tame carbon]

I get it was done with paint

but freeform

xD

[tribal ferry]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tame carbon]

@tribal ferry what about the ceiling

can you run cables there?

[tribal ferry]

Mounting it on the ceiling?

[tame carbon]

no

run the cables above the ceiling

[tribal ferry]

The attic is finished.

[tame carbon]

yeah but the space inbetween?

most ceiling constructs are wood

@peak cloak utility company is here again. lol, I will flip my shit if they shut down power again

[tribal ferry]

Well, I can look into it.

There's this week half part in my attic that's not finished

[tame carbon]

@tribal ferry do you have a contractor that does the renovating?

[tribal ferry]

Just plaster on the walls, no paint.

We're still planning the kitchen.

This is not a huge renovation - there's no specified contractor for our house.

[tame carbon]

So its DIY home improvement

[tribal ferry]

We do everything ourselves except for this kitchen.

[tame carbon]

mhm

[tribal ferry]

Essentially, yeah.

[tame carbon]

yeah kitchen you get a pro for

but painting walls you can do yourself

@tribal ferry if you don't want to cut into walls..

you can get those really small cable ducts

and run them along the edge of the wall near the ceiling

[tribal ferry]

We aren't doing the kitchen ourselves

We don't do plumbing or electrical

[tame carbon]

I've done my own electrical xD

[peak cloak]

I don't trust myself to do it

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak how hard can it be

[peak cloak]

In theory I know how

[tribal ferry]

Yep, same.

I just don't want to burn down my house.

[tame carbon]

RCD & fuses are a thing for a reason

idk, I've soldered about in DMX lighting dimmers before

[peak cloak]

I don't think we have whole home RCD here

[unborn sluice]

I don't trust myself to do it

[tame carbon]

@peak cloak my most shocking experience

was 50kV from a photocopier

I woke up on the other side of the room

I don't really remember what happened

but supposedly I shocked myself unconciouss

[stable warren]

Ok guys, i'm looking for a cheap solution to the following : Student housing, 7 rooms, 1 internet connection, every room has a RJ45 connection in the wall, and there's Wifi with client isolation. However i'm looking for a way to isolate all wired network connections.
I know of Vlans etc. Requires managed switch and it has to stay cheap. I wanted to get the cheapest routers and place 1 per room.

[tribal ferry]

You were knocked out by being shocked?

[tame carbon]

@tribal ferry was fixing a feeder on a big laser printer

and poked my screwdriver in the wrong place

[peak cloak]

@stable warren you mean one AP per room?

one router per home

[tame carbon]

the actual roller that charges the laser printer runs at like 50kV

I'm lucky I survived

[peak cloak]

you can do one VLAN per room

and then place firewall rules between

[tame carbon]

@stable warren VLAN with ingress protection

[tribal ferry]

I can try running cables in the unfinished part of my basement.

[tame carbon]

@stable warren on my mikrotiks I can map trunk ports to access ports

https://i.imgur.com/KveZPuc.png

So the device connected to the switch, thinks its a regular LAN

the switch tags the traffic with a VLAN number

and on your router, you can then assign each port as a VLAN interface

and set up firewall rules

[stable warren]

hmm so it would be possible with 1 switch

[tame carbon]

@stable warren you need a switch and a router

managed switch

[stable warren]

got modem (ISP) -> managed switch

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/0BLuudz.png

[peak cloak]

@stable warren you need a router

[tame carbon]

@stable warren ^ this is a single trunk line to my switch

[stable warren]

the modem=router

[tame carbon]

and every device on the switch has its own vlan

@stable warren yeh you'll need a new router

[peak cloak]

ISP router doesn't have VLANS, I would be very surprised if it does

[tame carbon]

your ISPs modem/router/wifi/whatever is not going to be able to do this

[unborn sluice]

my ISP router doesn't even have static routes

like brooo what

[tame carbon]

@stable warren https://i.mt.lv/cdn/rb_images/1633_l.jpg

This is a router

the port on the very left (that hole) is a highspeed connection, for say.. a switch

[peak cloak]

router != wifi

[unborn sluice]

router != switch

router != javascript

[tame carbon]

psshh

[stable warren]

yeah i'm not unfamiliar with routers/switchs/managed switch or L2/L3. But never looked at this part of it

[tame carbon]

@stable warren what you want, can be done

but not with consumer gear

mikrotik is affordable, and can do all of this

but it requires a bit of know-how to configure

[stable warren]

got a Ubiquiti edgerouter here should be able to do it

[peak cloak]

which one?

[tame carbon]

That one can do VLANs

[stable warren]

3 i believe

[tame carbon]

so you'll need a managed switch

[stable warren]

also got those

[peak cloak]

oh yeah, with the ER-X I would worried about performance

[unborn sluice]

just put them all in one router, then all of them have distinct subrouters, so double NATs for everyone

[tame carbon]

@stable warren set the switch up, configure vlan tagging per port

each port is for 1 room

then, use a single port as a trunk, that goes to your router

[stable warren]

Got 2 Netgears here, GS108T and GS110TP

both managed

[tame carbon]

Set up the vlan config on those

[stable warren]

yeah, need to make a test setup

[tame carbon]

@stable warren I'm not at all familair with VLAN interfaces on unify

[stable warren]

me neither :P

[tame carbon]

I know how to do this on mtik xD

Essentially

[stable warren]

i'm guessing everything has to be bought,

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/Crm6QdB.png

You want something like this ^

[peak cloak]

on the edgerouters it can weird

depends if you are using the switch interface

[tame carbon]

@stable warren this registers a virtual interface on the router, with vlan ID 501

[stable warren]

yeah Ubiquiti has some weird non standard stuff sometimes

[tame carbon]

@stable warren if you set the access port on the switch, to tag traffic with 501

it will appear on the virtual interface on the router

[stable warren]

Any advice on hardware to get?

[tame carbon]

@stable warren what speeds are we looking at ?

from the ISP

[stable warren]

250/50

[tame carbon]

@stable warren any budget?

[peak cloak]

@stable warren for edgemax, you would setup a vif under the interface you want to use (eth4 for my example)

[stable warren]

200-250

euro's

[tame carbon]

https://mikrotik.com/product/rb4011igs_rm

@stable warren I have a 250/250 connection at home

And I use the RB4011

I have two customers of mine, that get their internet from me

[peak cloak]

example of config under the vif

[tame carbon]

@stable warren those customers get internet from me, through VLANs, identical to what you described you wanted

You could use the edge router to do this

[stable warren]

i c sounds good

[tame carbon]

But that RB4011 I posted, its about 180 euros

[stable warren]

well the edgerouter is mine :P

[tame carbon]

and its capable of 10gbit/s total speed

It has 10x 1gbit (grouped into two groups of 2.5G each)

and a single 10G interface

[stable warren]

it's just for student housing, problem now is that some idiot ruins the network somehow

need to go there this weekend to figure out why/who/what

[tame carbon]

Mikrotik is deffo the way to go for DIY

[stable warren]

looks nice

[tame carbon]

@stable warren https://mikrotik.com/product/RB2011iL-IN

[stable warren]

yeah looking at it now, it has routeros?

[tame carbon]

They all do

Thats why I love mtik

they all run routerOS

[stable warren]

think i tried that on my vmware server

[tame carbon]

@stable warren when buying a mtik, make sure you look at the test results

That RB2011 is the smaller brother of the RB4011

Its low cost

Not as fast

but its still fast enough for your purposes

[stable warren]

looks fine by me, i got 500/50 at home myself but no advanced setup really, just 1 modem+router -> 5 switches

[tame carbon]

@stable warren I assume, each user in their room, will have their own router?

[stable warren]

nope

there in lies the issue i believe

[tame carbon]

@stable warren you could set up DHCP pools for each VLAN

and allow users to hook up a switch

to their 1 port

[stable warren]

thought about that

[tame carbon]

all of that is quite easy on mtik

[stable warren]

i can get some cheapo crap switch for ~25 euro's a piece, and just put those between the switch/wall connector

switch = router

[tame carbon]

@stable warren yeah each room can have their own unmanaged switch

DHCP is all done by the mtik router

[stable warren]

yeah with the mtik solution

[tame carbon]

Traffic seperated by VLANs & firewall on the router

[peak cloak]

A couple of days from now a student asks why he can't port forward

[stable warren]

i would need a proper router/managed switch

well there is another issue there :P

[tame carbon]

@stable warren well, with the RB4011

you could do it all in one device

it has 10 ports

more than enough

@stable warren oh yeah that is one issue. Port forwarding will not be an option.

Because you still share the same public IP

[stable warren]

now the modem/router has 4 ports, 1 goes to switch, and 7 wires

for each room 1

and on the modem itself it has 2 AP's fed with POE injectors

they got client isolation on

[tame carbon]

https://mikrotik.com/product/rb4011igs_rm

I'm still betting on this one

[stable warren]

that's an all in 1 solution

[tame carbon]

You can in theory get 20x gigabit out of it

that 10Gbit port can be hooked up to a switch

if you need more ports

[stable warren]

well there's a option to put the modem in 'bridge mode'

[tame carbon]

I would not do this on the modem

[stable warren]

but gotta go through ISP and it can take 1 to 5 days :P

[tame carbon]

@stable warren do you know what kind of plans the ISP offers?

I got a /29 range from my ISP

so each device has its own public IP

[stable warren]

nope not possible

[tame carbon]

rip

[stable warren]

they even do that 'public NAT' thing, where the exit IP is the same for several customers

not sure what it's called

[tame carbon]

CGNAT

aka; the bane of ipv4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier-grade_NAT

[peak cloak]

does your ISP have ipv6?

[unborn sluice]

I love CGNAT

[stable warren]

yeah can't forward with that

[unborn sluice]

I can't port forward

[stable warren]

It does, however not everywhere :P

IPV6 that is

Also this depends on the modems used

[tame carbon]

in theory if you want to be able to offer port fowarding

you can set up a 6to4 tunnel

and set up dual stack

every client gets a NATed v4, and a public v6

[peak cloak]

doesn't tunnelbroker tunnel not work under cgnat?

[tame carbon]

fuck. you're right.

[stable warren]

i don't think ISP allows for multiple external IP's on the consumer versions

and business = expensive BS

believe you pay per IP

[peak cloak]

ipv6 is multiple ip's anyway, could you ask them for ipv6?

[stable warren]

hehe

[tame carbon]

getting distracted

[peak cloak]

the smallest routable ipv6 is a /64

[stable warren]

can't ask them for anything

[peak cloak]

I get it

some isp's are so bad

[stable warren]

they allow for port forwarding on the modem, but disabled custom DNS with a update a while back

[tame carbon]

@stable warren besides recommending the RB4011, not really sure what else you'd need

[stable warren]

think that does what i need it to do

[tame carbon]

this solution expects all cables from the various rooms to terminate in one location

if you don't have that, you'll need a managed switch.

[stable warren]

159 euro's for that MikroTik RB4011iGS+RM

[tame carbon]

oh wow

Thats better than what I paid for it

I paid like 180 euros

@stable warren that router is futureproof too

https://i.imgur.com/LYmJDEj.png

[stable warren]

any chance there's 1 with 16 ports/POE+ :P

[tame carbon]

get a managed PoE switch

those are

very expensive.

[stable warren]

my GS110T is POE+ and managed :P

it's got 6 AP's on it, 3 x Ubiquiti AC something and 3 x Ruckus R510

And some IP cams

[tame carbon]

stupidly enough

mtik doesnt sell any PoE switches that arent outdoor

https://i.mt.lv/cdn/rb_images/1953_l.jpg

This is ment as an outdoor solution

[stable warren]

pff

[tame carbon]

it has 2x 10Gbit

and 16x gigabit PoE

[stable warren]

just need gbit lol

[tame carbon]

@stable warren no the 10G is for the trunk to the router

access ports are 1G

But this is a managed switch (runs routerOS)

and has 16x PoE

https://mikrotik.com/product/netpower_16p#fndtn-specifications

Its $279

There are probably better solutions for PoE

I just know that they are very expensive

[stable warren]

all i can find with some ports : https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/routers/rv345p-dual-gigabit-wan-poe-vpn-router/index.html

[unborn sluice]

oh no cisco

[tame carbon]

F cisco

[stable warren]

lol

[tame carbon]

might as well give the NSA your root password

[stable warren]

seems to be the only all in 1 solution, not sure about vlan though

[tame carbon]

@stable warren don't you already use injectors?

[stable warren]

yeah but i'm looking for a solution for home also :)

[tame carbon]

oh

Well that netpower_16p I linked, is ment as a junction box for public wifi

highspeed switching & PoE

[stable warren]

that one looks expensive :P

[tame carbon]

All PoE switches are expensive

[stable warren]

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/routers/small-business-rv-series-routers/datasheet-c78-742350.html

actually looks like it does what i need, 32vlans

NSA can have a look if they want :P

[tame carbon]

I'm not certified to help with cisco

[stable warren]

lol

[tame carbon]

that shit requires like IQ 9000

[stable warren]

well, i got like 5 x 8P switches now

talking for home solution now

[tame carbon]

[stable warren]

2 normal gbit switches, 1 4poe/4normal, 1 full POE-managed, 1 managed

[tame carbon]

https://i.mt.lv/cdn/rb_images/1055_l.jpg

[stable warren]

that looks kinda childish? :P

[tame carbon]

https://i.imgur.com/Ilo64Md.png

[stable warren]

lol

[tame carbon]

it has a 72-core cpu

xD

[stable warren]

haha

[tame carbon]

and a $3000 pricetag

https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/CCR1072-150831130622_150822.png

block diagram is nuts

each SFP+ cage is capable of 10gbit/s

[stable warren]

great for home solutions :P

[tame carbon]

more like a small ISP

you can serve a small town with this

and give everyone gigabit speeds

[stable warren]

with all the 'ISP rules' and stuff here that wouldn't work

[tame carbon]

If you run that kind of gear, you just sign up with an ASN directly

and do your own peering

you become the ISP

[stable warren]

it's more about the data that has to be stored

[tame carbon]

I don't log my internet, I made the two customers sign over liability on those IP addresses

so if I ever get police knocking on my door, I just forward their request

[stable warren]

lol

i'll just keep an eye out on that RB401 and when the time comes

[tame carbon]

@stable warren there's also a wifi variant

but dont get that one

buy seperate APs

[stable warren]

already got those

[tame carbon]

mikrotik has the option to remotely manage APs

but only with mtik gear

[stable warren]

yeah

like ubiquiti/cloudtrax/ruckus

great fun and all until they make you pay per device

[tame carbon]

heh?

mtik APs are like $60 for decent ones

[stable warren]

Cloudtrax used to be free when it came to management portal. AP's ranged from 150-300 euro's

[tame carbon]

damn

[stable warren]

Now they make you pay per device

but the AP's get cheaper

like 80-180 or so

[tame carbon]

https://mikrotik.com/product/cap_ac

[stable warren]

I got : 3 x https://www.ui.com/unifi/unifi-ap-ac-lite/ and 3 x https://www.commscope.com/product-type/enterprise-networking/wireless-access-points/indoor/r510/

[tame carbon]

how much are those unify ac lites?

[stable warren]

no clue

[tame carbon]

cus those are on par with the cAP ac I just linked

[stable warren]

and running the Unifi controller here also, looks great and all

around 76 euro's a piece for the AC lite

a 5pack = 347 euro's

[tame carbon]

@stable warren all the mikrotik devices running RouterOS L4 and up can be a CAPsMAN server

thats the 'controller' in essence

[stable warren]

I liked cloudtrax, all cloud no onsite bs

[tame carbon]

wat

cloud is BS