#networking

1 messages · Page 136 of 1

little schooner
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The one with the procurves? I mean if that hardware is just sitting there and they dont have any remote services running on it that she needs it in the new office

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it should be fine to remove it and use it

subtle glen
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that equipment is also still on for no reasons

little schooner
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yeah, its wasting power then

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but better to ask first

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it could be doing business work

subtle glen
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but there are no pc, no servers. The 45U one is completely empty with just a lot of cut ethernet cables on the back

little schooner
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empty then huh

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so yes use it

subtle glen
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let's see if my mom will ask them (even tho she doesn't like that thing in the house)

little schooner
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I dont have a room big enough to fit a rack 😦

subtle glen
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"where are you gonna put it"

little schooner
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I wish my stuff was in the basement but

subtle glen
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i probably won't be able to fully open the door (like now), but it's a sacrifice i am willing to make

little schooner
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no wiring was done down there

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it will make noise too unless you use quiet equipment

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whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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fan noise

subtle glen
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the tiny nas box and the switch makes noise already

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but i can sleep with it. my brother doesn't like it but he still falls asleep sooo

little schooner
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I remember having the synology NAS and switches in my bedroom

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i used to be able to sleep with just the NAS

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but the other stuff became

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impossible to sleep with lol

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so I did a forced moveover

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of all my equip

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to another room

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I made new cabling

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where I could

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the rest I bought CAT 6a

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75 feet

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and 100 feets

subtle glen
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sometimes i imagine what would happen if the power goes out during the night and the ups starts to BEEP, BEEP, BEEP and then faster beeps cause the battery is discharging. And if it shuts down and turns on again the switch will restart and make a huge noise cause fans spin at 100% for few seconds

little schooner
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thats exactly what would happen

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the loud initial fan spinup

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but edgeswitch are quiet

subtle glen
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lol i need a diesel generator on the balcony (so that i can wake up the neighbourhood with the engine noise)

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i have a cisco one

little schooner
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wanted to buy a cisco one since I did a lot of classes on their stuff

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but support was not free

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nor was the upgrades

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also tight on money

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and wanted managed

subtle glen
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i got mine for free from the same office 😛

little schooner
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because i feel like edgeswitch has weird bandwidth problems

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like it wont saturate the gb link

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only like 824mbps

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and i wonder why it just happens with this one

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i had a consumer asus ac66u

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and it never had that issue

subtle glen
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dooley will be so upset when he will see this chat

little schooner
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also you wouldn't believe how much frustration I went through

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initially setting it up.

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Because, there was setting corruption in its startup-config file. Basically, the port was a trunk member and in access-mode at the same time

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somehow, edgeswitch doesnt sanity check the configs right

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so it would never establish a connection at all

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but would show link Green and okay

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like seriously, that took me 3 days to realize

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the GUI setup corrupted it

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whereas doing it from console was

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the proper way of doing it

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That's where they cut corners on QA i guess

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they can't compare to cisco

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at all.

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But upgrades are free!

subtle glen
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i read that there are a few problems about corrupted stuff on ubiquiti products. A lot of people have problems with that

little schooner
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Especially with the edgerouter-x

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storage failures

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upgrade failures

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there was something ruining the durability of the flash

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that it reached a failing point

remote kernel
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@rocky badge do you like your EdgeRouter X?

rocky badge
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yes

remote kernel
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And is it controlled from the UniFi software?

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Also, do you like your UniFi APs? @rocky badge

rocky badge
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I'm getting some soon

remote kernel
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Is the EdgeRouter controlled through the UniFi Controller?

rocky badge
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No

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UNMS

remote kernel
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Darn

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Maybe I'll get USG

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Id like to get a UniFi router

little schooner
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@remote kernel Does the USG do line rate gigabit

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it doesnt have a proper console management but a pretty gui

dusty wyvern
fresh copper
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I doubt they will ever reply unfortunately. In my opinion, it’s a bit less than I would expect but nothing stands out to me as being illegitimate

little schooner
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Corners have to be cut somewhere

fresh copper
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It’s probably just not a very high quality cable

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Might not get the full speeds

rigid slate
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My setup just a 8port switch modem and router at living room

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i live in apartment so not need 48 port switch and no place for rack

gritty owl
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I like the random CPUs just sitting there. lol

rigid slate
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two xeon x5550

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and i3-2100

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planing new computer using that cpu

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but how do you guy have such big house? where you live?

little schooner
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@rigid slate that tower is thiick

rigid slate
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that is dell inspiron 620

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i use it as web server

little schooner
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hmm, currently I am using a custom case cooler master with supermicro motherboard with xeon 1245 v5 cpu

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its freestanding unit

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I dont have money for a rack but

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I have a shelf where the tower sits on

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its standing upwright on the shelve

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with at least 5 feet clearance vertical

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its lights are BLINDING

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blue, keeps people up all night

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but no one sleeps there so that wouldnt happen

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but if they do it will.

rigid slate
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but still better than my no air management shelf

chrome hound
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Hey @rocky badge

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I may have committed a firewall crime

deep verge
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Someone mind testing the bandwidth on my OpenVPN server, i dont have the connection to test it right now.

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expecting the VPS's connection to be full duplex, so it should hit 70-80mpbs, and here i sit on like 30 tops.

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@rocky badge im looking at you for having access to a connection that can test this

upbeat veldt
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@remote kernel just build your own router OpenBSD with PF and bob's your uncle. Ubiquitis routers are PITA.

little schooner
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@upbeat veldt yes I use pfsense for my openvpn and performance is much improved

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Especially with intel aes-ni

upbeat veldt
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@little schooner You used a Ubiquiti router before?

little schooner
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I have one now yes

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Not for vpn though

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Its routing my home network traffic out

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And vlans that I have locally

upbeat veldt
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Why not also use PFSense for that?

deep verge
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pfsense as ovpn client or server?

little schooner
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Because if my server fails, so does the entire network

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Having a separate box just for.internet works best

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That only does one thing and cheaply

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No down time because I can afford a spare

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On shelf ready to go

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@deep verge server

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As a server

deep verge
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i use it as a client, works quite well once you get it setup.

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my god is it a pain and the instructions bad

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the one step i didnt do, restart ovpn connection.

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at a business i do IT work for there is only a single server, runs the POS server, domain, and router.

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if any one thing goes down the rest basically dont matter, soooo, i made the most reliable box i could and it runs everything.

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@little schooner do you happen to have a fast enough connection to test my VPNs bandwidth?

little schooner
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@deep verge only 25 megs

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Not fast

deep verge
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damn

little schooner
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I've had my server fail and bring my network down and learned my lesson

deep verge
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how did it fail?

little schooner
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Xeon 1245 v5 CPU failed 6 months use

deep verge
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oh, i have a 1275v5 in this box, its going for over two years now.

little schooner
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Randomly

deep verge
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yet me check exactly when i put that in.

little schooner
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I tried doing rma but

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It took long time

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And I couldn't afford downtime

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So I separated it

deep verge
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ordered 7/29/16

little schooner
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With edgerouter

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Yeah yours lasted longer

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I bought mine from newegg in a kit

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Guess it was used cpu

deep verge
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built mine

little schooner
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I built mine too but

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The mb and CPU kit was together

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It's in a cooler master haf case

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32gb ECC memory

deep verge
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Asrock Rack E3C236D2I, 1275v5, NH-u9s, 250D, 16GB ram (was supposed to be ECC, got the wrong ECC, its not ECC, im not going to bother to put ECC in)

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to date, only non-pentium skylake CPU ive ever used.

little schooner
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The only reason I considered ecc was because this was going to store documents from very old years

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And didnt want backup to start saving coruppted data

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And then when I go look at it

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It didnt write the memory correctly

deep verge
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this is a Point of Sale server, it really should have ECC, you think i get the budget to fix something that is not broken, o hell no

little schooner
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I will say ecc is.migtly expensive when I bought it

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I think it was 239 per 16GB stick

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If I didnt care about data integrity I'd go with 8700k server

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And lose the ecc

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I only did xeon for ecc

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But next server will be amd

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Eypc

upbeat veldt
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RAM is expensive now right?

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yeah wtf

little schooner
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Yes it is

upbeat veldt
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2012 when I bought my computer with 8 GB of RAM - $40

little schooner
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ECC is worst

upbeat veldt
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not even

deep verge
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i got a 16GB stick when it was $90, said stick was registered and i needed unregistered

rocky badge
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@chrome hound wot

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@deep verge sure

subtle glen
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am i an idiot for not using mine then?

high anchor
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Because it's also a hardware VPN/Firewall with high packet throughput for enterprise/"huge network" use

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Also, the price can be high because of a huge demand, as those "older" equipment can be searched for by some enterprises for interoperability issues, to replace or be a backup of a similar router.

subtle glen
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so i could use it only as a VPN server? instead of the edgerouter or another server?

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I could also use it as a firewall but i don't like those 100mbps ports

high anchor
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It's more intended to be a site-to-site VPN solution so it may not be what you are searching for

subtle glen
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:/

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for that site to site vpn you would need a similar machine to receive traffic, right?

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on the other side

high anchor
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At least another box that is supporting the same VPN protocol

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It may be from another brand or just a pc for this

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But you will need a dedicated IP in at least one of your location (perhaps you may need both your site to have a dedicated IP if those don't support VPN over NAT

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As I said, this thing is intended for enterprise use so you may encounter some difficulties you wouldn't have with a OpenVPN appliance

subtle glen
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I still can't figure out why it is only 100mbps if it is something for enterprises, site to site vpn's, firewalls, etc.

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If there is new hardware around, why would people keep buying this one for 800/1000+ dollars

high anchor
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Older equipment, enough to handle some Word/Excel transfers between sites, also some AD sync. Those have a great reputation for being reliable, so enterprises that still uses them may want to keep those, if they don't need higher bandwidth, and even then, they could still use this router as a VPN gateway but using another router to have more bandwidth for internet.

thick minnow
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bandwitdth[

clear igloo
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Just because new stuff is out doesn't invalidate the old stuff and new stuff can be much more expensive. If you don't need full gigabit encryption then why bother buying something that has far more capacity than you'll ever need

subtle glen
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So you don't use it as main router. You use it just for vpn and maybe some extra protection

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I think I got it

thick minnow
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u plug the cable in and route your ethernet through bandwidth

chrome hound
rocky badge
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ph

subtle glen
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wtf is that

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ltt style

remote kernel
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@upbeat veldt but I like UBNTs ease of configuration. I suck at UNIX stuff

chrome hound
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look I said crimes

remote kernel
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1 control panel for my switches, APs and router

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@chrome hound smh a water-cooled server

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Servers are supposed to be reliable

upbeat veldt
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@remote kernel noooooo, ubiquiti aps are easy as fuck to configure, but their routers are crap

chrome hound
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correction water cooled firewall

upbeat veldt
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Fucking nightmares to configure and debug

remote kernel
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Oh no

upbeat veldt
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pf.conf easy peasy

remote kernel
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Can I do a firewall/router on Windows Server?

chrome hound
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do you hate your self that much?

remote kernel
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No but I hate configuring and troubleshooting Linux/BSD that much

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I've tried Linux but I always have issues

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Maybe I wouldn't on a server though

upbeat veldt
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The thing is, you don't have to troubleshoot

deep verge
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pfsense is ezpz, use that.

upbeat veldt
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It just works

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Or read the man page

remote kernel
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I can never get my perhipherals to work properly on Linux

chrome hound
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servers don't have perhipherals

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well most don't 😛

upbeat veldt
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Lol you need an ethernet cable nothing more

remote kernel
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Oh yeah that's my main problem with linux: no RDP

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RDP is the best thing since sliced bread

deep verge
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rdp client or server?

chrome hound
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ssh man, and putty are your buddies

deep verge
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and besides that, there are a multitude of other options for a GUI.

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and with linux everything is CLI based soooo, SSH.

chrome hound
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go cli and never look back

remote kernel
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I just love how I can apply RDP policy with AD and RDP into any PC

chrome hound
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yea, so do the bad guys

deep verge
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there are things to do that with linux, just need to set that up.

remote kernel
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@chrome hound it's on LAN only

chrome hound
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so

remote kernel
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That's why I like it. It's not TeamViewer, I don't have the RDP ports open to the WAN

deep verge
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Nomachine, heard of it?

chrome hound
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we had raxis come out to my last job, he plugged into a network port on the open floor and with in 5 minutes had created an account and elevated it to domain admin

remote kernel
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Oof

deep verge
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uses the NX protocol, no noticeable difference between RDP and NX (NoMachine)

remote kernel
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This is my house though, no there aren't random people plugging in Ethernet ports

chrome hound
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same thing any one can do, and they could drop a small SMB and leave it in place and tap the network

upbeat veldt
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@remote kernel GUIs are for noobs and get in your way

remote kernel
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I know CLI, but it's windows CLI not UNIX

chrome hound
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hey you never know that girl that stopped by asking direction could just be trying to penetrate your network

remote kernel
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Lol I'd see the device on fing

remote kernel
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My neighbors used to steal my wifi so I obsessivley check Fing lol

chrome hound
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lol

upbeat veldt
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@remote kernel windows cli lol, I see why you hate the cli

chrome hound
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I always blame @rocky badge when things happen

remote kernel
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I get push notifications on my phone when new devices connect

chrome hound
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what about device takeover? when it clones a device 😄

remote kernel
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My neighbors had a bunch of construction work done and the workers were always on their tablets and laptops

little schooner
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How are others getting on your wifi

remote kernel
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I was using ridiculous amounts of data and I started really watching and when the data usage spiked was when the workers were there

little schooner
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Are they sharing creds?

remote kernel
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I dunno, they may have just brute forced it

chrome hound
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WiFi is not secure

little schooner
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Use wpa2-ent

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I have that setup with windows server

deep verge
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still, its a construction company, how the fuck did they get the password?

remote kernel
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I have no clue

chrome hound
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on the sticky note

deep verge
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and you didnt change it?

remote kernel
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Maybe one was a script kiddie

little schooner
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Dont use password sharing wifi

chrome hound
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the one on the AP 😛

little schooner
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Mandate 802.1x

high anchor
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About the lack of RDP on Linux, there is a (somewhat) equivalent called X2Go (basically X server through SSH) that gives you the power of Linux GUI but over SSH

little schooner
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Use user accounts

remote kernel
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No, I changed it after I figured out what was happening

deep verge
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oh god, i forgot X had that capability.

little schooner
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If workers share account creds

remote kernel
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@little schooner can I connect Android and macOS to wpa2-ent?

little schooner
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You know who's sharing

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Yes they can

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Android and iPhone support wpa2-ent

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And windows 10

remote kernel
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Ok, I'll do that when I get new APs

little schooner
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Have to go for now

deep verge
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my school uses WPA2-Ent, nothing has problems with auth.

upbeat veldt
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@remote kernel just create a guest network.

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Give them access, why not?

chrome hound
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some people ahve to pay for internet usage by the meg

upbeat veldt
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Who?

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Whot*????

chrome hound
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idk people

upbeat veldt
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Don't pay for such services and they will vanish.

chrome hound
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in theory sure, but sometimes that is all that is available

remote kernel
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@upbeat veldt Maybe I'm just mean but I don't want to gift random people internet. They could do illegal stuff on my networks and then I'd be held responsible

upbeat veldt
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@remote kernel just route the traffic from the guest net over tor, just in case then

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@remote kernel You have a wireless connection?

rocky badge
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@chrome hound wot

rigid slate
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Use a radius server?

little schooner
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Free radius should work

rocky badge
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I use NPAS lol

little schooner
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Is that one windows server

rocky badge
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Yes

little schooner
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Ohh then yeah I use that too

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Integrate with ad

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Really nice

rocky badge
little schooner
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Yeah that looks familiar

rocky badge
little schooner
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Oh you have it set to a local group

rocky badge
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Nah, ADserver\WiFiusers is a domain group

little schooner
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Oh

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The way its named implies

rocky badge
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I hate netbios sometimes lol

little schooner
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Yeah

rocky badge
little schooner
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Idk if I made the mistake of choosing .local for my domain

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What if I wanna publicize it

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Harder

rocky badge
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I mean, .local isn't going to be used ever lol

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as in a registerable tld

little schooner
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Yeah that's where the mistake is

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I dont want to recreate

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But have to if want public

rocky badge
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Yeah, I did ad.ryois.me

little schooner
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I am interested in azure ad but

rocky badge
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azure ad is nice

little schooner
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They said it's not a replacement for onprem yet

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But I want to move to it to retire it from here

rocky badge
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Yeah, it's definitely not going to be

little schooner
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I'd rather be able to access it over internet

remote kernel
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I'm on a .local, I like it

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It's too bad you can't have like a parked domain for AD

little schooner
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What do you mean parked domain

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I was worried about .local because if I want to bring it to custom domain on internet, I would have to transfer all objects over to a global known tld

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If I didnt want to have it exposed to internet at all, I have no reason to change it

unreal wedge
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Found out I need a metric fuckton of CAT7 for the office... they're installing gigabit with promises of 2Gb/s at least, but possibly 10Gb/s...

little schooner
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hmm is it true that CAT7 isn't standardized with IEEE?

unreal wedge
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¯_(ツ)_/¯

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I've been told it's not approved for telecommunication use, but I ain't no telecom.

little schooner
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hmm because I've ran into some signal integrity errors

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on an Intel NIC

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diagnostics always fail

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it says "does not follow IEEE cable specification"

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if only I knew before buying

unreal wedge
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I mean, technically I could leave the cat5e that exists for gigabit, but I want each machine to be able to nuke the connection kappA

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Also, I use CAT7 on my current rig without issue.

little schooner
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there is even claims that cat5e can do 10gigabit

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at short distances

unreal wedge
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Technically it should be able to do more than a gigabit, but there's a bandwidth limitation.

little schooner
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i wanna find that product page

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where it claimed that

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it was either netgear or dlink switch

unreal wedge
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CAT5e = 100MHz max; CAT6a = 500MHz.

little schooner
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hmm okay

unreal wedge
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Funny thing is, we have some CAT3 in an area, lol.

little schooner
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i may have misread the product page then

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man but i was so sure they claimed it...

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cat3 really lol

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that goes pretty far back

unreal wedge
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It's an out-of-use phone line.

little schooner
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i see

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so you said your experience with CAT7 is good?

unreal wedge
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So I'm probably gonna rerun that with cat5e and everything up to the switch will be 10GB/s capable, but everything downstream from the switch will be gigabit-only.

little schooner
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will be much cheaper

little schooner
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oh you know what this is what I was looking at

unreal wedge
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^ No issues at home.

little schooner
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thats where i got confused

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it wasn't 10gb

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it was up to 5gb

unreal wedge
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So less than 45m is fine, but I see that that's a reference to the shielding then.

little schooner
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those rosewill cat7 look great

unreal wedge
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So all runs in the office can easily support more... in that case, maybe ensure all runs are good, replace the bad ones, profit.

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No runs in the office are more than 100ft...

little schooner
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yeah you would still be good

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in that case

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I've never seen that claimed by other manufacturers

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that was why i was surprised when i first saw it

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but hey if its on paper... then they are forced to deliver

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or its false advertising : )

unreal wedge
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What's it matter? I'm the tech, and all runs are 50ft or less from the fibre, so if they're in good condition, we should be set, lol.

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Basically less length = more speed in this case, and there's not a ton of interference in the office.

little schooner
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yeah your right

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i totally agree

thick minnow
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Hi all. Looking for help. Im moving to a new house where the walls are made of stone. Going to have to route my ether net cable outside and into the loft/attic. Should I be looking for cat 5 or 6 e? Also I want to be able to plug my consoles and pc into ether net to avoid wireless if possible so would a switch be able to take the one input and convert it to maybe 4 or 5 outputs? Also is there an ether net to WiFi adapter? Preferably 2.4Ghz as thr walls are thicker.

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^ping if you are replying. Thanks

rigid slate
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@thick minnow for the wire at out door you need buy stp cable instead of utp, I think both cat5 or 6 fine for you. What do you mean Ethernet to WiFi adapter, you meant wireless access point?

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And maybe you need buy a network switch for future update

thick minnow
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Ughhh yeah. I wanna know if I can take it from ether net and connect it to a access point. Got any links for this stuff?

rigid slate
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Link?

thick minnow
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To like a switch/correct cabling etc. If you. Got any.

rigid slate
#

Normally you plug to router then Ethernet to access point

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If your access point have poe you may want buy a switch with Poe

thick minnow
#

So a powered switch which runs poe?

rigid slate
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If you want or you can just use the poe injectors

thick minnow
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What's that do?

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What does that do*

rigid slate
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It add electricity to Ethernet cable

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Like a pie switch

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Poe*

thick minnow
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Ah ok. So I could get a regular AP and grab an injector?

rigid slate
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Normally ap have injector

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If your ap can

thick minnow
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Ah ok thanks. I'm just trynna list what I'll need. So a cat 6 stp cable. Poe switch. Does the switch need to be managed or not?

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Ah that makes sense

rigid slate
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It your choice if you want more management go for manage switch

thick minnow
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Alright ill look In to it. Thanks dude :)

rigid slate
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Nope

thick minnow
#

So: upon looking, The
GS908E and GS308P seem to suit my needs. If I run the GS908E I don't get PoE but I could just use the PoE injector. Thinking of running a Ubiquiti AP AC Lite. Thoughts on the choices? I don't mind changing things if it is a better config.

subtle glen
#

Why an ethernet switch with USB ports?

hallow nimbus
#

Network HDD

subtle glen
#

just get a cheap tplink/netgear/or any other brand 8 port (or more if you need them) switch.

hallow nimbus
#

I need 128 ports

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😂

subtle glen
#

dang, 60 euros for that netgear switch

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i need more servers/internet

hallow nimbus
#

I need moar speeds

subtle glen
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@hallow nimbus seems like they made it to charge devices, not for hdd's but let me check

hallow nimbus
#

Since when is a router a powerbank

subtle glen
#

i don't see any "share a printer/storage device" for that usb port

hallow nimbus
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

subtle glen
#

lol these days you find usb ports everywhere

hallow nimbus
#

True

subtle glen
#

btw, 20/10 is enough

hallow nimbus
#

NEIN

subtle glen
#

YES

#

btw, do you keep your plex tab open on chrome/firefox or whatever? Will plex still work if you close it?

hallow nimbus
#

I dont keep it open when i dont use it

#

😂

subtle glen
#

the server works anyways then

hallow nimbus
#

Yes

subtle glen
#

i find the desktop empty 😂 . like having a server online for nothing

hallow nimbus
#

XD

thick minnow
#

Welp found out what Cable I need. Just need a crimper now.

remote kernel
#

@subtle glen I have an electron container running my Plex client

#

It's very handy

subtle glen
#

wait, a what? @remote kernel

remote kernel
#

It's a software developer tool that makes web sites run as programs basically

subtle glen
#

🤔 sounds interesting

hallow nimbus
#

Aka discord

subtle glen
#

aka 20/10 is enough for you

hallow nimbus
#

NOPE

subtle glen
#

shut up or i'm giving you a 56k modem

hallow nimbus
#

oeh money

#

😄

little schooner
#

Cant afford 10G switch

#

I need a managed one thats affordable

#

For a server to client setup, just two pcs

#

Any suggestions?

#

That are not used

subtle glen
little schooner
#

But 10G

#

Where find

#

That one 10G?

subtle glen
#

no, thought you mean "i cant affort 10 g, so i will use a normal managed switch"

little schooner
#

It's hard to find reasonable prices 10G switch that also let's you configure VLANs for them

#

I'm trying to future proof because I'm extremely positive that I will need to have vlan tagging later on

#

The next server I build will use vms in different vlans

deep sail
#

Don't know what your budget is, but I've had good luck with Ubiquiti devices. They have a 10g 16 port for $600

little schooner
#

@deep sail they arent sfp right?

#

I wanted ones with ethernet 10g ports built in

deep sail
#

@little schooner it has 4 rj45 and 12sfp+

little schooner
#

Is it fanless or with fan

deep sail
#

I believe it has a fan

stable yacht
#

anyone down to explain to me about some misconceptions I may have about the internet?

little schooner
#

Well, how do you know they are misconceptions?

little schooner
#

Anyone know if an intel x540 works on server 2019?

slow moth
#

im can make everyone here weep

subtle glen
#

@chrome hound ^

thick minnow
#

Currently working on making this house a completely wired network (at least on the device's that can be wired)

zenith ridge
#

Situation:

  • lan a with server
  • lan b without
  • both lans have their own ISP

Is there a way to redirect trafic from lan b to the server on a over a wifi p2p connection

#

to offload all that upload/download from/to the server over the internet

#

The users on those lan should not be doing any config, and routers used are from the ISP, so very limited

remote kernel
#

So I've been looking at servers, and they don't come with rails

#

Rails are super expensive, is there any way I can mount them without rails?

gritty owl
#

@remote kernel They sell generic rack rails, but obviously not as easy to deal with as the official sliding server rails

#

I have these rails holding up my cisco router because it was leaning down like crazy without them

stable yacht
#

@little schooner well I'm not sure if they are, I just want someone to confirm or inform me about stuff I may not have known

little schooner
#

@stable yacht hmm sure, what were your questions?

stable yacht
#

I'll dm you when I get home

upbeat veldt
#

@zenith ridge Uhm, you just add a rule to your firewall ruleset?

remote kernel
#

@gritty owl 00f that's still a lot

subtle glen
#

take a steel bar, bend a little bit at the front to make a 90 degree angle, drill some holes and you got rails

remote kernel
#

Yeah that's probably what I'll do lol

#

Me IRL

#

buys 40 core server

#

won't pay for $50 dollar rails so ghetto rigs something instead

fresh copper
#

My server that I coloed is sitting on a rack shelf

subtle glen
#

linus would be proud of you all

fresh copper
#

He should come on here and ask for help with his switch

subtle glen
#

lol

#

Gather the gang: Lurick , Ayyylias, BMW_wilson, Alex, Scottyseng, ....

#

objective: help linus

little schooner
#

I think linus said in one video that he's fine kinda "winging it" for most of the technology because he finds it fun

#

well he could ask for help if he really wanted but that would make it boring for him probably

gritty owl
#

@remote kernel Yeah, I'd probably go for the steel bar route. I know my supermicro server rails are like $80 per set.
@subtle glen Haha, I'm still waiting for him to drop that switch / supermicro router

proud ridge
#

Anyone know if Linus' 10G line is installed yet?

zenith ridge
#

even if it is already is installed, they still need time to film it, then floatplane, so there will be a lot of delay before we would see anything of that

subtle glen
#

Also if he would ask for help here, there would be too many distractions of people that come here to start saying hi/tagging him/etc

zenith ridge
#

Would be cool tho to see them active here

subtle glen
#

A lot of people would start tagging etc

zenith ridge
#

they will only tag if they would answer every time, no one really tags them now because they don't react

#

USG-XG-8 <- thats some fancy router 😂 someone needs 10Gbe with ubiquiti?

#

to bad it's so expensive

#

now they just need a slim down version of that one maybe only 4x SFP+ and some normal RJ45 Gbit ports and then no display next to it

little schooner
#

@zenith ridge well it's also good for internal routing scenarios too. Say you want to be able to route all internal network traffic at 10G speed

zenith ridge
#

They have a switch aswell, right?

#

yea this one, way less expensive

#

and 16 port

#

https://www.ubnt.com/unifi-routing/unifi-xg-server/

What is this for though?
It has the key build in, and for video, I assume their POE cameras, does it have any fancy/user friendly interface to look at those video feeds?

The UniFi Application Server, model UAS-XG, is an Ubuntu-based Server capable of securely running all of your business applications. It integrates UniFi and UniFi Video software for centralized management of your UniFi devices.

thick minnow
#

10Gbit switch

#

only 600 bucks?

#

damn

#

Oh, its fiber tho

#

also, hey guys 👋

zenith ridge
#

there are switches with 2x SFP+ on the used market for 100$

#

hey

thick minnow
#

ah, nice

#

I was wondering if anyone here works with dns servers

#

things like NameD and BIND

#

looks like nobody GWmythiFeelsBadMan

rigid slate
#

Anyone will find their server pue at home

thick minnow
#

? forsenThink @rigid slate

rigid slate
#

@thick minnow Power usage effectiveness

thick minnow
#

ahh, ok

zenith ridge
#

still don't get it

rigid slate
#

like the ratio how much electricity your computer use contrast to power use for cooling etc.

zenith ridge
#

oooh

rigid slate
#

the best is the pue = 1

zenith ridge
#

and how would you know how much power you use for cooling?

rigid slate
#

like how much watt does a/c used

zenith ridge
#

My only cooling for my server is the fans inside the server

hallow nimbus
#

My only cooling is the open window in my room

little schooner
#

I'm using just the fans inside of the Cooler master haf x case for my server

#

Xeon 1245v v5 doesnt need that much cooling

zenith ridge
#

2x e5-2665 isn't bad either

fresh copper
amber rune
#

';/pkl

little schooner
#

@zenith ridge which v version

#

Nvm also that is very old cpu

zenith ridge
#

v1, ye

subtle glen
zenith ridge
#

@little schooner it's actually not to bad, but also looking out for some v2 ones on the cheap, preferably 2690 v2 😂

#

or if i find a better server for my pc vm and gaming vm, that could also work, and keep the current server for just docker containers and storage

rocky badge
#

@subtle glen They look Dell poweredges

little schooner
#

Is the supermicro backdoor thing real?

#

@zenith ridge I ended up just using a regular consumer case and put supermicro hard inside with new xeon in combo purchase

#

At the time, v5 is what they had available

#

Now that amd has eypc though, I will consider changing to them

#

More cores and better performance at the same time for less.money

#

Intel charges a lot for cores and slow speed

#

An intel xeon w 2133 (I think its that) has turbo up to 4.50

#

And 8 cores

#

Saves a lot of power and no noise

fresh copper
#

The supermico thing is real but whether or not is was/could actually be used is doubtful

subtle glen
#

thanks @rocky badge

rocky badge
#

np

subtle glen
#

lets see how expensive they are

zenith ridge
#

@little schooner also bought mine in a cpu, ram, motherboard combo, 128GB ram

threw them in a used server case i found on the cheap, now moving in a rack case because i just bought the rack and new case for it

rocky badge
#

Expensive, especially for new ones

subtle glen
#

fuck

little schooner
#

@zenith ridge 128GB RAM

#

That's a lot

#

Do you use that much?

remote kernel
#

@rocky badge do you think a PowerEdge r810 40 core 64gb is enough for AD

rocky badge
#

enough that's a lot lmfao

remote kernel
#

Have you ever used them? Are they good?

#

I want a good server

rocky badge
#

Not r810 lol

#

You can get a r710 for a whole lot cheaper

#

and they're good

remote kernel
#

Yeah I'm getting one of those too

rocky badge
#

But a r810 is a overkill for AD lol

remote kernel
#

R810 for ESXi, R710 3.5 for storage

rocky badge
#

a r710 can do ESXi just fine

remote kernel
#

And maybe a R310 or something 1U as a rouuter

rocky badge
#

That's what we use at school

remote kernel
#

But r810 has 4 CPUs

rocky badge
#

dual cores is enough for ESXi lol

remote kernel
#

40cores 80 threads

#

It's only $150 more for twice the CPUs

#

I want lots of detodated wams for suurrver

rocky badge
#

At school we have 2 CPUs and and 96GB of ram

#

Which is enough lol

remote kernel
#

I want 4 CPUs and 64gb

#

Ill probably use this for a rendering farm too lol

#

I bet it will do good in 3dmark

rocky badge
#

getting a server to run 3dmark

remote kernel
#

I meant cinebench lol

#

I always get them confused

#

3dmark is what I run on my GPU

rocky badge
#

You don't get a server to run cinebench lol

#

Plus what virtualization workloads are you running that needs that many cores

remote kernel
#

AD, ubnt controler, Plex transcoding

rocky badge
#

lmfao

#

That can be done on a single socket server

remote kernel
#

It's mainly because I want a lot of boxes in task manager

#

And to be able to run things in the future

rocky badge
#

Just get a dual socket server lol

remote kernel
#

But 4>2

#

And 40cores > 20cores

rocky badge
#

quantality ≠ quality

remote kernel
#

And the price difference is enough that I want more cores

#

My r710 will be for less multi threaded stuff

#

Cause it's 3ghz iirc

rocky badge
#

Plex doesn't even need that many cores lol

remote kernel
#

I'm buying these used (obviously)

rocky badge
#

Plex runs on 4 cores fine

#

AD can run on 1

#

UniFi controller runs on 1

#

that's 6 cores

#

You don't need 40 cores for that

remote kernel
#

Then I have 34 cores in case I need them

rocky badge
#

you don't need 34 cores lol

#

this would serve you just fine

remote kernel
#

This would serve me better

rocky badge
#

Do it wouldn't lol

remote kernel
#

Why not?

rocky badge
#

Because you don't need 40 cores for light tasks

remote kernel
#

??

rocky badge
#

The homelab server lol

remote kernel
#

Lol, Ill probably run a Minecraft server on it too

#

And IP surveillance at some point

rocky badge
#

MC servers don't need many cores either

subtle glen
rocky badge
#

Surveillance server shouldn't be ran on any of those servers lol, plus for home surveillance that's again, overkill

remote kernel
#

Remember, I'm the guy who games at 1080p on a 1080ti

#

I tend to overkill

#

Better to overkill then to underkill

rocky badge
#

I know, but servers shouldn't be a thing you go overkill on lol

subtle glen
#

Why not

remote kernel
#

^^

subtle glen
#

I was thinking about using a blade server for my security camera

rocky badge
#

Blades are again, overkill for home usage

subtle glen
#

Hehehehe

remote kernel
#

Yeah that's even overkill for me

subtle glen
#

It is never overkill

remote kernel
#

Should I buy a Dell r610 and a 2x SFP+ nic or a UBNT rackmount router?

rocky badge
#

r610

#

UBNT servers are trash and overpriced

remote kernel
#

No, a router

#

I'd use the r610 as a router

#

It's a 1U server

rocky badge
#

meh

subtle glen
#

It has a lot of hdd bays

rocky badge
#

Go pfsense

subtle glen
#

Aren't wasted for a router?

remote kernel
#

The reason I want a r710 for storage is I already have a few 4tb 3.5inch drives

little schooner
#

Dont overkill on stuff. Remember the electricity costs and the fact that 40 cores will be running at very slow speeds

#

I have 8 VMs running on just a 4 core 8 thread chip

#

As long as you feed it memory and dont run it on hdd

#

You will see no issues with perf

#

And use a separate box for surveillance dont put it on server

#

If server goes down so does your camera footage

#

Pfsense with vpn on a modern CPU is also great

#

None of the old cpus support useful technology extensions in modern software

#

You would be paying for loud noise and slow speed

#

And some processors are so old they will stop supporting operating systems like server 2016

#

They've done that with esxi

#

Too

fresh copper
#

Definitely want AES-NI support on your CPU for any sort of crypto including VPNs

little schooner
#

@fresh copper helps a great deal, yep. I am trying to get my professor to consider this too

#

Besides that point, also currently he has a box that does not support this and only does fast ethernet on LAN and WAN

#

When the college is paying for 2gbps

#

So we're already losing some bandwidth there

fresh copper
#

Fast ethernet! Ouch, it’s probably the sun java machine or something. College networks can be pretty cool though

rigid slate
#

anyone know what processor used in edgerouter 6p

little schooner
#

@fresh copper I was able to finally get my input about purchasing a new router to replace the ASA that is there (FastEthernet) and it's been approved for winter

#

So I am happy because now we'll put what should have been there in the first place

#

They were willing to give us about $1000 out of budget

#

Since it's just a lab classroom, that will work just fine

fresh copper
#

$1k should get you some awesome upgrades for a lab classroom!

little schooner
#

@fresh copper so happy because its 4 years since they last improved anything in the lab

#

The wait is over lol

thick minnow
#

when you are to cheep to buy a new access point and your old wifi router isn't allowing dhcp traffic to your new router so you have to become your own dhcp server LULW i need to just buy a access point FeelsHmm

#

do ubiquity's access points work well with cisco routers?

fresh copper
#

Ubiquiti’s stuff works with just about anything. I have used them in all number of networks with weird pre-existing infrastructure.

subtle glen
#

Don't all access point work with any brand of equipment?

unreal wedge
#

I'd assume so, yes.

zenith ridge
#

@little schooner not at all, I can go to about 70GB, and idk if unraid does use the rest of it for the storage

mental plinth
#

Can you make a Raspberry boi sent a WoL packet to broadcast?

#

I'm trying to hobble together Wake On Wan functionality

#

Like if my phone sent a WoL Packet to my router, which forwards to the raspberry, which then sends it out on broadcast

fresh copper
#

That should be possible. I’m not sure how to do it but I don’t see why it would not work.

little schooner
#

@mental plinth it has to be sent to broadcast. The switch wont know the IP of which computer to forward it to

mental plinth
#

Yes

little schooner
#

Any computer that is set to wake on magic packets will acknowledge this and power on

mental plinth
#

I know that

#

In asking

#

Fucc

little schooner
#

Are your phone and PC on same network?

mental plinth
#

No

#

Holup

#

Lemme speak pls

#

I know the broadcast address is a massive issue

#

I was asking

#

Can I have a raspberry pi relay the wol packet to broadcast

#

If I plug it into my gateway's ethernet

#

Port

#

And forward the Packet port itself to the pi

little schooner
#

If your pi is router, broadcasts cant be pushed over routed networks

fresh copper
#

The thing is, WoL has to be broadcast so the app would already be sending it to broadcast

mental plinth
#

I can't forward to broadcast

little schooner
#

No, but Cisco had something called ip-helper

mental plinth
#

I'm trying to wake on wan

little schooner
#

That allows it to go

#

For WAN, did you try NAT rules?

#

NAT should be able to do it

mental plinth
#

I have port forward and trigger

#

Thats about it

#

Firewall rules?

little schooner
#

No, NAT

#

Its different

mental plinth
#

Because I ain't seen anything labeled nat

little schooner
#

Then it probably doesnt support it

#

In the context of

#

Letting you set custom rules

mental plinth
#

Yea

#

Wait

#

Is NAT for like IPv4 and IPv6 settings and such

#

In the router

#

Which blocks ports

little schooner
#

Because if you make a NAT rule, it's basically like saying:

"If I get a packet on port 80 from the WAN, I have a rule that will translate ALL port 80 requests to be sent on port 443 to an internal ip address of a single server"

mental plinth
#

N o p e

little schooner
#

Whereas you can have NAT rule broadcast to your local ip range if WAN receives magic packet

#

Its translating

#

To what you want it to do

mental plinth
#

I can confirm that the packet does get through the router firewall

little schooner
#

Yeah but it cant broadcast inside without ip-helper or NAT...

mental plinth
#

Wait

little schooner
#

It stops at the router

#

Always

mental plinth
#

A port forward rule works within a mijute or two

#

Then nope

#

The ARP table refresh i think

little schooner
#

It shouldn't work really

mental plinth
#

It did

little schooner
#

Yeah but for how long?

mental plinth
#

When the router thought it was there

#

Couple minutes

little schooner
#

Yeah it's not working

mental plinth
#

Discovery and arp refresh

little schooner
#

Something isnt working if it stops working

mental plinth
#

Yea

#

The NIC is waiting for a broadcast

little schooner
#

So that's not proper solution

mental plinth
#

And I can't broadcast forward

#

So i was asking

#

If i have a Pi running 24/7

#

Wired to the router ethernet port

little schooner
#

Yes

mental plinth
#

With a port forwarding rule directed to the pi

little schooner
#

Yep

#

Then your pi must rebroadcast it

mental plinth
#

Yes

little schooner
#

Whatever comes to it

#

Force it to send it locally

mental plinth
#

And this is possible, right?

little schooner
#

Yes in that sense it is

#

Your pi could basically be another switch

#

And broadcast everyone

mental plinth
#

Also wait what if I created a series of interlinked pis

little schooner
#

And someone will get it.

#

Interlinked how?

#

As router?

#

Or repeaters

#

All pi must be on same local network which you want to broadcast on

mental plinth
#

One main pi connecc to router

#

Bunch of pi connecc to main pi

#

What happen?

little schooner
#

I believe the traffic still goes through

mental plinth
#

Cool

little schooner
#

I haven't had a nic to nic situation myself since

#

I've always had switch around

mental plinth
#

Was also considering ftp server for myself

#

For fun

#

Why not?

#

So a pi can work as a netswitch

#

N i c e

little schooner
#

Well, just make sure you're securing stuff if you open holes in your WAN

#

Yes it can

mental plinth
#

Gotta get that password

#

Or no meme access

#

Gotta get that password

little schooner
#

When you port forward anyone else can also get in

mental plinth
#

Or no meme access

#

Yea i know

little schooner
#

Strongly recommend vpn

mental plinth
#

Ouef

#

How would I set up a vpn to my own nutwork

subtle glen
#

what

mental plinth
#

How to vpn into home nutwork

subtle glen
#

speak english xD

#

you need a server to receive connections. some routers have that function built in

thick minnow
#

do you want to vpn into your network or a certain device on the network?

mental plinth
#

Into the nutwork

subtle glen
#

pls stop

mental plinth
#

No

#

It's a nutwork and you can't change my mind

thick minnow
#

is your e key broken?

mental plinth
#

Tf

#

No

#

It's a phon

subtle glen
#

ha ha

mental plinth
#

Can a Pi be the vpn boi

#

Imma create a monsterous line of pis

subtle glen
#

*the vpn server ?

thick minnow
#

i am confusion rn

mental plinth
#

Yea

#

Can a pi be a vpn server

subtle glen
#

yes

mental plinth
#

And would that let me exist inside the network

subtle glen
#

what?

mental plinth
#

Like a WoL

#

Will it act like I'm in the network

thick minnow
#

why not just tunnel into your router.

subtle glen
#

maybe there is no vpn function?

mental plinth
#

DPC3941

#

It succ

thick minnow
#

just turn it into a gateway and passthrough the ip to a better router

subtle glen
#

lol

mental plinth
#

I know

thick minnow
#

monkaX yeahhh

mental plinth
#

They haven't bothered to replace

#

Meaning...

subtle glen
#

bridge it and use something better

mental plinth
#

They set it as user owned

thick minnow
#

oof unlucky

#

i used a cheep 27$ router for like 2 years... it was still better then then router/switch/modem/wifi combo pos that my isp gave us

mental plinth
#

Guess what

#

I'm waiting for Comcast to kill it

thick minnow
#

i have killed 2 of mine LULW free replacements allyShrug

mental plinth
#

Nice

#

Tho since we on the internet essentials plan

#

I bet they'd kill the gateway and the plan

#

Make it a normal netnut

subtle glen
#

What do you do if your servers are getting ddos'ed?

thick minnow
#

use cloudflare

subtle glen
#

For example: how would ubisoft fix their servers from the ddos attack

clear igloo
#

Blackhole the traffic and use various mitigation techniques

subtle glen
#

Do you have to restart servers, routers etc as well?

clear igloo
#

No, you never do that

subtle glen
#

Don't they need to empty the ram, cpu resources?

thick minnow
#

most of that stuff is quite smart and is run on custom hardware that is built to deal with ddos attacks so there is little to no problems most of the time

subtle glen
#

Their servers are down tho

clear igloo
#

Servers aren't down in a DDOS, the bandwidth to the data center is saturated

subtle glen
#

And servers overloaded (?)

#

No?

zenith ridge
#

servers wont suffer from ddos

#

just their router is flooded by requests

subtle glen
#

Then I learned a wrong definition of a ddos attack

#

Thought the server that response to the request were also going to get overloaded for requests of services that don't exist

zenith ridge
#

Denial of service is typically accomplished by flooding the targeted machine or resource with superfluous requests in an attempt to overload systems and prevent some or all legitimate requests from being fulfilled.

#

there will just be a point where tho connection between you and the end server wont be able to keep up all the requests

#

once the ddos stops, it's over

subtle glen
#

So servers aren't affected at all?

#

Just routers? (In case they don't have protection)

clear igloo
#

It depends but generally the servers don't get hit directly

#

They can get hit directly if you configure things poorly but usually there are layers between them and the outside world

subtle glen
#

I also heard about servers that are deployed to receive this traffic so that important ones aren't affected. Don't know if it's true or if the routers just ignore the "fake"requests like cloudflare says

clear igloo
#

Yah, you can blackhole traffic that way too

subtle glen
#

So you fill a server with requests on purpose

clear igloo
#

Yah, it just drops traffic

subtle glen
#

Also, how do they know when an attack is going on? Are there people watching traffic graphs 24/7 or there is some sort of alarm that notify people?

thick minnow
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oh for sure

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there are services that deal with most ddos attacks automatically and it just slows down the network 90% of the time. if a ddos takes down a network it is quite a large and complex ddos attack.

subtle glen
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Aren't isp's affected? Cause during a ddos attack I've never heard about isp bandwith problems

thick minnow
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i mean that is why isp's have bandwith limits per connection

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and they will throttle connections if the local isp data center is getting overloaded.

subtle glen
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Welp, guess no r6s tonight 😁

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Thanks for the explanation @clear igloo @thick minnow @zenith ridge

thick minnow
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play a good game like Overwatch

subtle glen
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Uuuuu the r6s roast

half valley
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Sun

subtle glen
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My school has them 😂

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They were a gift

hallow nimbus
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Lol

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I need that

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With 400TB per machine

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😂

thick minnow
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those look like they are from the 2000's LULW

subtle glen
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they clearly don't look like some quad socket supermicro servers

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@hallow nimbus you need a 20/10 connection

winged solar
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When you cant find an 8 port poe switch anywhere in the city

fresh copper
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There is the free Meraki one if you pretend to be an it professional and don’t care that the license only lasts 2 years

elfin socket
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looks like it went from ipv4 to ipv6?

rocky badge
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Yeah, that probably added IPv6 DNS servers

elfin socket
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is that a local ipv6 address? not familiar with ipv6 yet.

rocky badge
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Yea

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It's local

elfin socket
rocky badge
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If you want to

elfin socket
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After VPNfilter, I've been a bit paranoid about my DNS. -.-

unreal wedge
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CloudflareCloudflare DNS is a good thing.

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Problem is, I'm moving to Cloudflare's "Cloudflare Domains" next month, and it worries me to have all parts of my internet routing through them.

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Partly because a piece of me believes they're NSA in disguise, but _ ¯_(ツ)

rocky badge
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I use Google DNS lol

unreal wedge
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I trust Matthew Prince over the people that own YouTube's algorithms.

rocky badge
#
   DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 10.0.0.100
                                       10.0.0.70
unreal wedge
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   DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 1.1.1.1
                                       8.8.8.8
rocky badge
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I need local DNS 😄

unreal wedge
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I was using that, but something on this router's borked.

rocky badge
#
PS C:\Users\Ryois> nslookup ad.ryois.me
Server:  ws2016-dc-01.ad.ryois.me
Address:  10.0.0.100

Name:    ad.ryois.me
Addresses:  10.0.0.100
unreal wedge
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Your parents must be terrified.

rocky badge
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Why? lol

unreal wedge
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You're managing their internet.

rocky badge
#

oh lol

little schooner
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@unreal wedge I've learned that it's best to keep networkings as simple as possible even if it's for family.

The day that a person is out and about and the network shuts off entirely is when the troubleshooting will get so complicated for them.

unreal wedge
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lol, I call that job security.

little schooner
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For networks that I would.manage though I'd introduce the complexity

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I won't burden people who may not be well versed

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Because I cant always be there to fix it

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I learned that lesson not too long ago

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So I've changed my mindset since

fresh copper
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I use CloudFlair on most of my stuff. Mostly because I get good ping. My VPS in Germany has less than 1ms. I mean, so does Google DNS but still. I am hoping to switch to CloudFlair domains but I’m not sure that I want to be forced to use their nameservers. I much prefer HE’s because I get total control.

thick minnow
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that feeling when you figure out a problem you have been having for 2 days then quickly realize that it was simple and you are a idiot for not figuring it out before. FEelsBadMan

little schooner
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@thick minnow probably the worst encounter I've had with that was simply a reboot of a printer

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Suddenly all scan jobs started to work too

thick minnow
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i had a ethernet cable plugged into the wan port not the lan port when i was trying to turn my wifi router into a switch ablobderpy

little schooner
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Hmm before I understood the differences between the wan port and switch ports, I did something like that all the time trying to get two Asus routers to talk

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I just didnt grasp the concept at the time

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Now after some Cisco school everything made sense

thick minnow
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ye i am going through learning all about networking so... ima do stuff like this

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also i am still trying to wrap my head around subnets so that is fun

little schooner
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Just dont let them tell you that it's the most important section to study because it isnt.

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I remember in my class they made a big deal about it

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When the exams barely touched upon

cold peak
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Subnets and studying IPs is a small portion of what you need to know as a CCNA certified technician, it's just basics (Cisco Troubleshooting course)

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Like, you only need to excersize it 4 times and you are good.. just remember what are Classes and how to find the subnet.

little schooner
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@cold peak FHRPs details were a little hard to remember. And the OSPF packet types and such

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omg I wont forget how much time I spent

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Lots of the questions on exam made me chuckle because

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they were trying to be funny with the answers

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to trip up the ones who really didn't know the nitty-grity

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it almost felt like the question makers were having a blast

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one of my professors questions got into the test

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he was happy

cold peak
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Yup

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These are protocols done by the switch anyway, so phew..

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We only need to understand how data is being transferred and optimized by the network, but other than that.. Lucky me the server room hadn't burned down yet xD

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and yeah, Jesus hell, I'm still studying CCNA and I want to apply for that test already

little schooner
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Oh yeah make sure to be ready

cold peak
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even tho I'm 2 years on the job (army stuff)

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Oh, I know 75% ..

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It's now all memorizing this shit xD

little schooner
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I'm not going to lie, I thought it wasn't that bad but

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I will say that i did well because

cold peak
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There's the questions, and lab

little schooner
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my school has the netacademy program

cold peak
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A friend of mine failed lab, but got all questions right

little schooner
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and its really high quality labs and tests

cold peak
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he passed the ccna then.. I was like, "what... you didn't do lab?"

little schooner
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Yeah labs get people the most

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the time it takes to inspect

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the small screen space

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etc

cold peak
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Yup, it's where it is mostly confusing.. AND YOU DONT HAVE TIMEEEEEE

little schooner
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yep

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i will tell you this

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i had 5 minutes at the end

cold peak
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;-;!! It's so frastruating

little schooner
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the testing center i went to was so uncomfortable to sit for an exam

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chair was too low, table was too high, it was heated when it was like 85 degrees outside

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like hot

cold peak
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Freaking hell, and they call themselves network technicians?

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Our server rooms are chilled as heck

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If it ain't cold, there's something wrong xD

little schooner
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heh, our server room is basically in the classroom

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we have the low budget setup

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or what they call it