And the partnership with Zeiss allows them to make lens inserts, that distort the image as little as possible. Pretty cool, but whether you believe this, is up to you
#virtual-reality
haughty thistle
silver jungle
wireless adapter worth it for the vive pro?
young marten
I would like to try a vr headset with expensive glass lenses like the ones Zeiss produces and a high density display.
lavish meteor
The Samsung odyssey can be found used for petty cheap
Or the quest 2 will have prescription lenses soon a
carmine wharf
contact lenses are no
agile abyss
dam I wish I had the money to pre-order earlier looks Like i am going with the Samsung odyssey + which I am fine with I can always upgrade later
How easy is it to wear glasses with the Odyssey +
lavish meteor
my dad does it and it works fine
haughty thistle
November now?!
Why do I, as someone who pre-ordered, find out about this through some rando media article? Last time, they announced a delay, they did so directly to their customers...
Last time I heard something about the shipping date of the Reverb G2, it was about end of October
lavish meteor
bruh
haughty thistle
The marked part roughly translates to
According to the from HP to us communicated availability date, we expect a delivery around the end of October
This was taken directly from an E-Mail I've gotten from Bestware on the 2nd of September
Ahhh.... Ok, I reread the article, and what I'm guessing, is that they're talking a delivery date at the customer, when going through both distributer, and shop. While Bestware already announced that the distributers will ship their Orders directly to customers. As per EU privacy laws, you can opt-out of it if you want though
This direct distributer to customer shipping, will cut off some delivery time, so I might still get mine end of October #HYPE
agile abyss
Devices will begin shipping to preorder resellers the second half of October, and we expect units to begin reaching your hands the beginning of November.
zinc timber
Ask again in December
carmine wharf
Lol ok
carmine wharf
make a vr headset out of 2 apple watches lol
haughty thistle
please no
gray aurora
haughty thistle
I'll just go out and say here, that the Nintendo Switch Labo is the lowest Resolution VR experience using modern technology. At 640x720 per eye, it's lower res then the Rift DK1, which had a resolution of 640x800 per eye. And from my experience with the Switch Labo VR-Kit, I can safely say, this little resolution is not even close to enough for VR
carmine wharf
imma be honest with you
the labo vr was fine
i know i sound crazy saying that, and its nowhere NEAR the level of detail of my quest or the oculus rift i used at the vr arcade once, but it was still fun
haughty thistle
Thanks dude
carmine wharf
Why are vr headset displays rectangular
Wouldn't it make more sense for them to be squares?
And usually they are vertical rectangles, why? Don't you want more horizontal fov?
haughty thistle
It is to maximise the Vertical FOV, as that's easier to achieve
With a wider horizontal FOV, you could potentially run into problems, where the User might be tempted to look around with their eyes, instead of the head and expose the gap between the 2 lenses down your nose
carmine wharf
But.. I do move my eyes in vr and don't have that problem
haughty thistle
Yeah, but it's a problem some people had when they had their first VR experience ever in a PiMax wide FOV headset
Another problem with the horizontal FOV is lens distortion, which PiMax headsets suffer to this day
carmine wharf
Makes sense
I've never used a pimax but I probably never will
They seem kinda sketchy and their headsets seem bad from what I've heard
haughty thistle
Well yeah, they're really expensive and imo not worth their money
carmine wharf
How much are the individual parts for the index. Base stations are $150 each but the controller and headset how much are those
haughty thistle
Like it's not that their headsets are bad, just that they do some misleading marketing, and their price obviously
A pair of Index controllers are 300€ and the index headset itself is 540€
haughty thistle
Obviously you're saving quite a penny when getting the full kit
carmine wharf
Yeah
haughty thistle
1080€ here in Europe for the FK
haughty thistle
999$ in the US
carmine wharf
Yeah
haughty thistle
It's a lot of things that make VR headsets expensive
- The optics are quite expensive to develop. This is one of the reasons so many opt for Fresnel lenses, as it's cheaper and easier to develop then a regular convex lens
carmine wharf
The fresnel ones are the ones with ridges right?
haughty thistle
- The Displays have to have quite a high binning to be able to reach these refreshrates, at their sizes, which makes them expensive as well
Yep, fresnel lenses have ridges, a convex lens does not
carmine wharf
I wonder why everybody uses fresnel lenses then
Couldn't somebody use a convex lens and just make the headset more expensive?
haughty thistle
as it's cheaper and easier to develop then a regular convex lens
I already explained why
carmine wharf
Yeah, but I said why has nobody taken the chance to do that high development cost and sell the headsets for more?
haughty thistle
Also Fresnel lenses are thinner and thus lighter, reducing the overall weight of the headset
carmine wharf
Ah thats probably it
haughty thistle
VRgenieers did develop a set of convex lenses fopr their headset, but their headset is also 5k
haughty thistle
Their headset apparently has one of the best visual clarities of all headsets, but that's also because they used a set of 2560x1440 screens and developed the lenses to use all of that screen unlike most other headsets where there is a small part at all edges of the screen which is left unused
carmine wharf
Sounds like its worth the 5k lol
haughty thistle
It is. Although it only runs at 70Hz...
Automatic physical IPD adjustment as well...
carmine wharf
Fancy
vapid depot
hand tracking
carmine wharf
How small are the individual pixels on a vr headset screen? They must be tiny as hell to fit 1440p screens onto like 2 inches
haughty thistle
Anyhow, back to the reasons that make VR headsets expensive:
3. the manufacturing. There are quite small tolerances for VR headsets (the more expensive it is, the tighter the tolerance), and since they're all assembled by hand, that's another major cost driver
carmine wharf
Yeah I bet
haughty thistle
2 inch screen? You think we already reached micro displays?
carmine wharf
What? In the index video the screens look like maybe 2 inches im just guessing
haughty thistle
They're probably using like 4-5 inch screens, which could just as well be used in a phone
The Index screens are (I think?) 3 inches in size
haughty thistle
And remember, there's this one Sony phone (I belive it was the Xperia Z5 Ultra or Premium) that had a 4k screen in a 5.5 inch display
haughty thistle
That is a OnePlus 3T standing up against my Index
carmine wharf
Another reason I just thought of that maybe they are expensive because they need to balance profit with how many people will buy it
haughty thistle
carmine wharf
Ah so its pretty big
haughty thistle
I know, not the best Picture, but you can see that the Index is quite a bit larger
Trust me, there's a lot of production costs involved in a VR headset
Oculus probably doesn't make a penny with the Quest 2, heck they might even sell it at a production loss and not just a development loss. But that's because they expect to make their money back through Software sales
carmine wharf
Like, if it costs $500 for the parts, they need to find the ideal profit margins so as many people buy it as possible, but they also make as much money as possible. If they price too high it won't sell well but they will make a lot of profit from the few that sell, or they could price it cheap and make low profit on a lot of units
Although that's kinda how everything sells isnt it lol
haughty thistle
Well, that would be the Apple way of doing it (and probably what PiMax does), but Valve probably doesn't make much money with the Index. Like yes, they probably have a healthy profit margin on it, but not a profit maximized one
carmine wharf
Yeah
haughty thistle
The Index, especially it's controllers were probably not cheap to develop, nor to produce
There's a reason why HP went for WMR tracking on the G2, even though they were approached by Valve for the development. And that was, in their own words: "costs"
carmine wharf
Yeah
I think oculus probably sells at a slight profit for the hardware itself but definitely not research and development cost
haughty thistle
There's no way, that just the Hardware sales will give them a net profit. Especially if you factor in development costs
carmine wharf
Yeah
I will thank oculus and facebook for one thing, they made vr popular
Like it was popular before. But now.. yeah
haughty thistle
There's only one thing I fear about the Quest 2, and that is that it might impact game releases on PCVR. I just hope that not too many developers jump over to make Quest 2 exclusives...
carmine wharf
Yeah
Id also like to thank valve for supporting the oculus quest in steam vr. They didnt have to but they did
haughty thistle
That's because Valve believes in an open VR market on PC. I'm sure if WMR spec wasn't so cluttered, that Valve would start supporting it natively as well. But as-is, you need a separate driver from the Steam Store
carmine wharf
Thank you valve ❤
haughty thistle
The Vive Cosmos btw is not natively supported in SteamVR either, but when you install Vive Port, it automatically installs the driver for you
carmine wharf
Yeah
How does tracking work for oculus link, does the headset feed the camera signal to the pc and it tracks or does the headset track itself and sends its position to the pc
haughty thistle
This Vive Cosmos driver caused SteamVR to crash on me recently btw. And since then I always have this "Add-Ons disabled" warning when running SteamVR. Yeah, no way possible I'd ever activate that one again
carmine wharf
Oof
haughty thistle
With Quest Link, the entire tracking and guardian still happens on the headset. It just sends the position data to your PC
carmine wharf
Ok
Id love it if oculus gave their headsets a better port to use for oculus link, even if it was some proprietary port I just want it to come out of a good place on the headset, and not have to be as compressed in the video
The side usb c is seriously annoying to use in vr. It falls out all the time and pulls down and sideways
haughty thistle
What many people, including me did for Quest Link I used some Velcro cable ties to affix the Link cable to the side of the headset. One at the front, so the cable tie could stick to the fabric which is used for the headstrap adjustment, and one further at the back, so the cable comes out more like a regular PCVR headset
vale junco
Id love it if oculus gave their headsets a better port to use for oculus link, even if it was some proprietary port I just want it to come out of a good place on the headset, and not have to be as compressed in the video
@carmine wharf If they wanted to I think they could do displayport over USB C (DP Alt Mode)
carmine wharf
yeah but eh
gray reef
There's only one thing I fear about the Quest 2, and that is that it might impact game releases on PCVR. I just hope that not too many developers jump over to make Quest 2 exclusives...
@haughty thistle
Hopefully more devs will adopt the new OpenXR standard
vapid depot
just make the game for quest and then make a pc version with better textures
rustic garnet
bro just put {isforpc}=[true]
little known fact is all game developers just leave {runonmac} on false for funsies
haughty thistle
@vale junco from what I know, at least the OG Quest did not support that feature on it's USB-C Port. And from what I've heard, the Quest 2 doesn't have it either
And about OpenXR: it does make it easier for developers to port their games to different platforms, but they still have to compile their games for the different platforms. It's not that you can magically play a game designed for the Arm Processor in the Quest, on the Index on your PC
gentle coral
Yep, recompiling for quest and pcvr can be hard, but when done correctly it can be a single app that then downloads the required data based on what device it is on. And editing both versions at once is not all that difficult if you keep your dev environment organized. I spend more time organizing assets and scripts then actually programming.
Also here are the screens that the index uses.
Index actually used these displays after project northstar did.
I could go through and find the exact displays that most VR headset use through a few contacts, but as was discussed earlier the Optics are the hard part. And one of the biggest problems is actually the divide between AR optics and VR optics. If you know how to design optics for VR you will make a heck of a lot more designing AR optics. And there are so many patents at this point, that fresnel
Is actually one of the only legal options for anyone to use, and you don't need a high paid optics designer to do a good job.
The XTAL is great in image quality, but is very front heavy, i could only go 15 minutes in it before it started to hurt. (To keep it from fully sitting on my nose I had to tighten it quite far). I actually think I liked the StarVR headset more overall. Though I haven't tried the most recent XTAL.
The weight is from the auto IPD system, as it needs to be quite beefy to move the massive lens assembly.
Also I just heard DLSS 2.1 on at least 30 series cards already support DLSS in VR. Linus mentioned it in his 3090 review. So when the drivers get updated it should also work on 20 series cards.
I hope someone here can test it out.
carmine wharf
If those are the index displays, why does it say 120hz?
haughty thistle
That's because Valve is running the displays out-of-spec for 144Hz mode. They found in internal testing that most units manage the 144Hz just fine, but not all do, that's why the 144Hz mode is labeled "Experimental" and as "Overclock"
I have no problems with it, but I heard other stories of the display getting severe smearing that is not present in 120Hz mode. Well, that's why
They probably do some internal binning, for 144Hz screens, but I wouldn't be 100% sure on that. They might also just get higher binned screens that are actually rated at 144Hz
carmine wharf
Will 144hz ever come out of experimental then
haughty thistle
Depends. If they actually get higher binned screens that are rated for 144Hz, probably. If not, well then not obviously
It's like how many 1440p GSync monitors allow you to run them at 165Hz, although the panels are only rated for 144Hz
carmine wharf
Well, what happens to the people who have displays that don't support it when the feature comes out of experimental
unkempt wing
index ships in 3 weekz
haughty thistle
It is really smooth, but you need the PC to back that up
my 1080Ti barely manages 144Hz in some games (like Beat Saber)
rustic garnet
oh wow and beat saber is relatively light no?
haughty thistle
Yep
144Hz is really hard to achieve. In VR, not your average Framerate is important, but the frametimes are, and if a frame can not be met in the Frametime window, it's just being skipped
Unlike Desktop where it would still be shown
lime sorrel
so has anyone with the 3080/90s tested it with the index? looking for a general overview rather than a synthetic benchmark
carmine wharf
Probably bad with how often they are crashing now
haughty thistle
The crashing problem has already been found out, why it happens, and why only on certain AIB partner cards: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6bUUEEe-X8
carmine wharf
What was the problem?
haughty thistle
Basically, some AIB Partners cheaped out in Power filters behind the chip, and thus are causing instability on higher clocks. 2 way to midigate this:
- swap out the filters yourself
- apply a VBios with a lower Boost limit
carmine wharf
Ok
I know a quick and easy way to solve this problem
do not ever pre-order A N Y T H I N G
gentle coral
@carmine wharf agreed though i did pre order the HP reverb G2, as I really need a new headset.
carmine wharf
Cancel it
Do not pre-order anything
I dont care how promising it is, pre-ordering always ends up badly
harsh niche
lmao
carmine wharf
Its not even about bad products
Pre-orders are always first batch. First batch will ALWAYS have issues
Its basically a rule of life
lime sorrel
Only a Sith deals in absolutes
carmine wharf
Who says I'm not a sith
lime sorrel
Bought a vive when it just launched and it was okay, same with index.
But then again blind-bought a 970 and ran into this whole 3.5GB fiasco too
carmine wharf
I've never gotten the first batch of something and it didn't have issues
Goes for video games and physical products
harsh niche
well duh it goes for video games
lime sorrel
don't forget to preorder cyberpunk
harsh niche
but reviewers already have some of the products before they're out, in my case a quest 2, and there's nothing wrong with it
carmine wharf
I was going to pre-order cyberpunk yesterday actually
But then I remembered the 30 series issues and was reminded of previous pre order disappointments in video games
lime sorrel
pretty sure there's little point in preordering it
it's not like they give you any bonuses
carmine wharf
Yeah. I can get it day 1 anyway so
lime sorrel
the only reason to do it would be to get the collector's edition
because it sells out really fast
carmine wharf
Also I got super Mario 3d all stars instead of pre ordering cyberpunk. Its got its issues but at least I'm aware of them before I buy unlike with cyberpunk and potential problems
Id like to take this opportunity to remind people to not expect a perfect game from cyberpunk. It will be great but it probably won't be as perfect as everyone thinks it is
rustic garnet
- swap out the filters yourself
@haughty thistle lemme just take a soldering iron to my 1400 dollar gpu
soft hound
The Asus cards all have the nice ceramic ones, not the cheaper ones, so that's what I'm going for
sullen linden
I was thinking of buying the quest 2 but i dont know if i should get the 64gb or the 256gb model? which should I get? 
sour garden
Someone needs to make among us in 1st person with vr support
lofty minnow
@soft hound ah yes ceramic very good materriall
Someone needs to make among us in 1st person with vr support
@sour garden i was thinkin abt this a few days ago
sour garden
It would be good
harsh niche
I was thinking of buying the quest 2 but i dont know if i should get the 64gb or the 256gb model? which should I get? :finn_thinking:
@sullen linden if you're going to use link then 64gb if not then maybe 256gb but I don't think it's worth $100 more
games aren't that big, most around 2gb
haughty thistle
About the G2 Pre-Order:
I'm usually a guy who waits out the release and always get's the products down the line, once the initial release issues have been fixed, but the reason I pre-ordered the G2 was because it was genuinely cheaper I only payed 583,90€ (the weird number is because of German Tax reduction during Corona), whereas now and at release I would pay 681,38€ and once all pre-orders have been fullfilled, problems have been solved etc., we're already in 2021, where the tax reduction is no longer valid and I would need to pay 699€. I saved quite a sum of money by pre-ordering. And it's not like I couldn't RMA it, when issues arise...
If it wasn't for the savings, I wouldn't have bit the bullet...
long crater
What’s the difference between the rift s and the quest 2
haughty thistle
- The Quest 2 has 3 settings for the IPD, whereas the Rift S only has 1
- The Quest 2 has a higher resolution then the Rift S
- The Quest 2 has more comfortable controllers, while the Rift S controllers have more grip
- The Rift S has 5 cameras for tracking, while the Quest 2 has only 4 (the extra camera leads to a larger area around the headset that can track the controllers)
- The Rift S has a way more comfortable strap then the Quest 2 has
- The Rift S has better image Quality then the Quest 2 when used for PCVR (this is due to the Quest 2 having to compress the image to fit over USB rather then a more traditional dedicated display link like HDMI or DP)
- The Quest 2 can play games standalone with no wires
- The Quest 2 requires a Facebook Login, while the Rift S can be used with already existing Oculus accounts
Generally speaking, if your IPD is close to the one on the Rift S, it's probably a better experience for PCVR
agile abyss
@haughty thistle
If I was not able to get a Samsung HMD Odyssey+ should I go for the Lenovo Explorer or the HP Reverb VR Headset G1
need a backup just incase
harsh niche
also the quest 2 has higher refresh rate faster processor and more ram
haughty thistle
Depends on what you want to focus on more. I heard that the G1 had a very small sweet spot and that the actually usable FOV for looking around with just eyes was pretty small. From personal experience I can say, go for the Lenovo Explorer, if you don't wear glasses. if you do, then go for the G1 as that has more space in front of your Face
agile abyss
I do wear glasses
haughty thistle
@harsh niche It has to be said tho, that the 90Hz on the Quest 2 have to be manually activated by the developers of on-quest games, and that 90Hz Link support will only come later this year, and not right at release
And honestly from switching between 80Hz and 90Hz on my Index, I haven't really noticed a big difference
harsh niche
yeah but I would imagine that would be atop priority for both oculus and the developers because sales of both the headset and the game would probably go down
yeah that too
I played flight sim once at 25 fps on my rift s, could barely even tell
haughty thistle
So other then marketing, and a bit more user compatibility, I don' t think the 80Hz vs 80hz debate should not be a selling point...
jaunty otter
hey, i have a quest but i dont use it often and i dont much keep up with the news. can i get a tldr if my headset is obselete now, if i need an upgrade etc? its pretty new
haughty thistle
The OG Quest, as Oculus/Facebook stated, is going to receive updates and games. And until they finally decide to pull the plug on the OG Quest, I'm honestly quite sure that they're going to force developers to support the OG Quest to some degree
carmine wharf
hey, i have a quest but i dont use it often and i dont much keep up with the news. can i get a tldr if my headset is obselete now, if i need an upgrade etc? its pretty new
@jaunty otter if you can return it and get a quest 2, do it. But if you can't, the quest is still a great headset and will be supported for a while
jaunty otter
ok im glad its not way worse than the quest 2 in terms of processing power or anything to the point that i cant play new games
thats what i was really worried about
jaunty otter
is it wishful thinking to hope that even when its hardware is obsolete, i will be able to wirelessly run games on it off of my pc in the future?
carmine wharf
I dont think it has the hardware for that? But possibly with some sort of USB c adapter in the future
haughty thistle
There is a community option through a paid app called Virtual Desktop. But a fair bit of warning:
If you weren't able to tell the Latency on official Quest Link (which already is noticable to some degree), then you're definitely gonna notice it with VD
5GHz Wifi just doesn't have a low enough latency for VR, and I personally don't think 6GHz is going to change anything. You really need to go crazy high, like the 60GHz on the Vive Wireless Adapter, to reduce the Latency to an unnoticeable level
jaunty otter
is it possible to achieve the same effect by having a crazy good wifi card in my pc, and running a local wireless hotspot similar to the way a printer makes a wifi signal and connect to that directly from my quest at bandwidths higher than 5GHz? even if i can only play offline games
haughty thistle
The problem is not the distance, but mostly the transfer latency that is bound to happen
jaunty otter
also dont flame me if any of that deserves a "thats not how this works" if it wasnt obv im a layman
haughty thistle
That's why you get lower latency with higher frequency wireless
Yeah, no problem ^^
We're here to explain more then to blame
jaunty otter
but i wouldnt be able to have a better wireless connection by connecting directly to a good card in my pc than by connecting to my router and then my pc?
its the first thing i thought of and it makes sense in my head but i cant find anyone else having done it
like if im just trying to stream data from pc to headset it seems silly to use my wifi instead of connecting directly somehow
or maybe not a network card, but maybe buying another router not connected to my network data plan and directly connecting that to my pc to use as a reciever
haughty thistle
Yeah, it would reduce Latency by a bit, but the bigger latency bottleneck is pretty much the conversion from and to wireless
jaunty otter
no but im saying like, can i actually do that if i wanted to and had the money to spend or is it a fantasy
haughty thistle
For 2.4GHz, latency was more affected by distance then on 5GHz. And even 2.4GHz the latency difference is not very noticable
jaunty otter
since my current bottleneck is definitely network latency, even at 5GHz its a network bottleneck not a encode/decode bottleneck
haughty thistle
Yeah, you can certainly do that. I don't know about the Network card in your PC and local hotspot, but the second router thing would definitely work
jaunty otter
ok yea network card was something i just came up with so i didnt have high hopes for that, it would just be nice to integrate it into my pc
haughty thistle
But yeah, I tried it with my extremely good router from AVM, quite litterally in the next room, and the latency was atrocious. Not that it made me sick, but playing fast pace games was basically impossible
Although, let me clarify:
It's not always like this. Only when my mom's phone is connected to the router, it's when it gets to unplayable rates. When she's not home, it's actually quite playable, although all movements feel quite jello-y. I guess the router does some directional Wifi, and when my mom is home, the router sends out the Wifi in multiple directions
jaunty otter
latency isnt a huge problem for me, ive played beat saber on my wifi its just that when too much of the screen is being refreshed i get frame skips due to bandwidth caps
lofty minnow
- The Quest 2 has 3 settings for the IPD, whereas the Rift S only has 1
- The Quest 2 has a higher resolution then the Rift S
- The Quest 2 has more comfortable controllers, while the Rift S controllers have more grip
- The Rift S has 5 cameras for tracking, while the Quest 2 has only 4 (the extra camera leads to a larger area around the headset that can track the controllers)
- The Rift S has a way more comfortable strap then the Quest 2 has
- The Rift S has better image Quality then the Quest 2 when used for PCVR (this is due to the Quest 2 having to compress the image to fit over USB rather then a more traditional dedicated display link like HDMI or DP)
- The Quest 2 can play games standalone with no wires
- The Quest 2 requires a Facebook Login, while the Rift S can be used with already existing Oculus accounts
@haughty thistle ' while the Rift S can be used with already existing Oculus accounts' - u forgot mentioning that youll need to link it to the facebook account in 2021 or sum like dat
haughty thistle
You don't have to
If you don't like your existing Oculus account with a Facebook account, you won't be able to buy new games from the Oculus store, and also can't play multiplayer on Oculus titles anymore. But the great thing about the Rift S being a PCVR headset is, that you can continue to use it with SteamVR, without any compromises
And the time frame for Linking goes till January 2023. If you haven't linked till then, then you loose the features on Oculus and won't be able to link it anymore
@lofty minnow
lofty minnow
And the time frame for Linking goes till January 2023. If you haven't linked till then, then you loose the features on Oculus and won't be able to link it anymore
@haughty thistle yea i wasnt sure regarding the time frame
haughty thistle
"Good Track record" "Unbiased Reviews"
I've seen him cover more Oculus stuff then anything else. I don't want to say anyone is biased towards anything (heck if I would go by that measure, then MRTV is biased towards HP), but it honestly seems kinda fishy to me, especially since he only mentioned the FB requirement in one sentence, in one video about his Quest 2 coverage...
forest falcon
I preordered the new oculus quest 2 and i wanted to know if my pc will be able to run steam vr games well on it. i have 16 gigs of 3200 mhz ram, a ryzen 5 3600, and a gtx 980-ti
sly night
it should run steamvr fine, maybe not at max settings but good enough settings
forest falcon
will it run half life alyx at low fidelity
sly night
Probably at medium, it's well optimized
forest falcon
alright thanks
sly night
my 2060 can push that thing at ultra, so it'll be ok
forest falcon
thank you!
soft hound
Expect lower frames running the quest for PCVR, due to the compression that has to take place, so you won't get the same performance as you would on a dedicated PCVR headset
gray reef
Quest PC VR uses more GPU, but less CPU
rustic garnet
the tracking is offloaded to the quest's cpu tho
haughty thistle
my 2060 can push that thing at ultra, so it'll be ok
@sly night Probably because the game uses a dynamic resolution scaling. It manages Ultra settings on relatively low hardware, but it automatically only renders at half resolution. It's actually recommended to set the settings to medium on a 1080Ti with an Index running at 90Hz, to maximize image clarity
And about Quest Links draw on PC performance:
The compression for Quest Link used to happen on the GPU, but in the same move they went from the USB 3 requirement to the USB 3 recommendation, they also moved the compression onto the CPU, although it still uses CUDA/OpenCL to accelerate the compression (aka it loads both CPU and GPU). Because of Compression I noticed half the framerate on my Quest compared to what I would've gotten on my Index (aka: games that comfortably run at 144Hz often run at less then 72Hz on the Quest, triggering reprojection, and thus are limited to 36fps)
My System isn't a slouch mind you: i7 8700k @4.5GHz all cores, 32GB RAM @3200MHz, GTX 1080Ti
rustic garnet
oh wow
regal breach
So if I'm looking at a VR headset in time for Squadrons being released (and would like to try BeatSaber) - Vive, Reverb G2, or something else?
carmine wharf
Well that would depend on what you'd like and your price range
The rift S is a pretty good headset, however it requires a facebook account to use if you are a first time user and it was recently discontinued.
copper summit
Rift s is great, it’s what I have, but tbh you can just use a separate email than what you would usually use
And use that email to create ur account
pale orbit
facebook stated they'll ban those type of accounts when they find them.
so anything you purchased for your headset goes bye bye
at this point just don't bother with anything facebook
harsh niche
at this point just don't bother with anything facebook
nah
not that hard to just make a blank facebook account
pale orbit
again facebook have confirmed they will delete those and anything you have purchased for your oculus that is tied to that goes along with it
harsh niche
it's not a fake account if it's blank
I have a facebook account with my real name and email and all I use it for is to be in a group where fighter pilots answer questions
pale orbit
if you have multiple facebooks accounts, like a real main one, and you create a second for the headset, they'll delete it
harsh niche
I mean a main one that's just blank
I only have 1, which is blank
besides that group
pale orbit
well most people probably already have a facebook account, and if they don't want to tie their VR usage to that they are SOL more or less
harsh niche
how are they going to know if it's a fake account if you use the same email as the oculus account? couldn't you just do that
pale orbit
facebook spys on everything you do, their business is collecting data on their users and selling it. they'll figure out eventually if you have more then one account.
harsh niche
how do they spy on me? with cookies?
can't I just clear cookies or delete the browser I signed up on or something
pale orbit
no and It's to big of a thing to go into how, you can look it up it's a deep dark hole. suffice to say things like the NSA laugh at people who sign up for things like facebook, as does facebook themselves. they collect a hell of a lot of data on you if you use them.
Mark Zuckerberg himself calls his users "Dumb F***s"
haughty thistle
There's also a thing called "Fingerprinting". It's not as accurate as using some sort of Browser Storage, but is something you can't do anything about. Basically, they read out what kind of extensions you have installed and whatnot. Combined with your IP, carrier, etc. They can detect you scaringly accurate...
Trust me, unless you use a completely separate computer with a completely separate Internet connection, browser, setting, etc. They can connect all of your accounts in the background
Btw. I stumbled upon this once while I was working with Discord funny enough:
I created a separate account for bot testing and it turns out, they have somehow connected my two accounts, although they use different Emails and I used a different browser. Apparently, my IP and add-ons were enough to connect the two...
regal breach
I worked for a company that developed tech to do personalised video rendering etc probably 15 years go now. The amount of data we had on any one person - compared to what people are worried about being tracked over - was laughable. Short version: Don't bother trying to avoid it. The stuff you're worried about them knowing they already knew a lonnnnng time ago.
rustic garnet
Well you're not facebook
scarlet maple
I worked for a company that developed tech to do personalised video rendering etc probably 15 years go now. The amount of data we had on any one person - compared to what people are worried about being tracked over - was laughable. Short version: Don't bother trying to avoid it. The stuff you're worried about them knowing they already knew a lonnnnng time ago.
@regal breach ok
lol
visual mesa
Could you use 2 gpu's for one headset?
What I mean is each display in the headset is running on a separate gpu.
Could it be possible?
haughty thistle
If the headset has 2 display connectors, one for each eye, and the software has support for it, then yes. But from the headsets currently out there, I only know of the StarVR One to have 2 separate DP connectors for both eyes
young marten
They have Nvidia vr works for vr sli
haughty thistle
And that headset installs a proprietary add-on into SteamVR to support Multi-GPU output
But SLI for VR, is generally speaking a bad idea, as all the artifacts known with SLI and similar technologies, should at all costs be prevented in VR, which is why it's not so common
visual mesa
I'm thinking like the opposite of SLI though.
Like two completely separate gpu's just each one running a single display solo.
Independently
young marten
https://developer.nvidia.com/vrworks/graphics/vrsli that's what vr sli is
@visual mesa
strong wind
Does this count
AMD FX-8350
Sapphire Rx580
32 Gigs of ddr3 ram
Hardrive not SSD
I know it can run half life alyx but is the CPU good enough for boneworks
haughty thistle
I know that Boneworks is quite a CPU heavy game. I honestly don't know how pre-Ryzen AMD CPUs fare in that game
rustic garnet
Vr seems like a good application for multi-gpu tho
strong wind
yeah one for each eye
strong wind
yeah
noble kestrel
I know that Boneworks is quite a CPU heavy game. I honestly don't know how pre-Ryzen AMD CPUs fare in that game
yeah, that cpu will run it maybe, but dont expect constant fps of big levels
atomic moat
Truthfully yeah, I think you couldn't get the two to sync well without wicked input delay. And since it's vr, it's stupid important to have both little input delay AND no sync issues.
red tundra
Anyone got any pre-built VR Ready PC’s for 700 dollars?
I don’t need it to run well, I just need to it run, have the proper ports, etc.
Please do tag me.
rustic garnet
New or used?
strong wind
strong wind
@red tundra
strong wind
so what does everyone think of the hp reverb g2
haughty thistle
From what I've heard so far, a steal for 599$, but still an extremely good headset for 699$
strong wind
honestly I feel bad for it though with the quest 2 coming out it's going to get stomped in sales
sullen linden
Hey, small question, i was opening my HTC Vive controllers, to fix that rubber pad issue ~
Doh, since then, the controller sometimes float's away, when hold on an certain angle, any ideas ?
I'm pretty sure i was careful enough to break stuff lol
haughty thistle
Sounds like one or more of the IR-Sensors are not reporting
Did you make sure that the IR-Sensing array (from the Tracking Donut at the top) are all properly connected?
@sullen linden
sullen linden
uhm, you mean the 2 connector band's you'd need to pull ?
@haughty thistle
i think i did
i also read, cleaning the insides might help... i think i will open them again and clean them properly
Thank's for the hint doh :)
distant spade
Is an Oculus Rift cv1 still good in 2020?!
distant spade
How low is the resolution?
fathom sigil
I can't remember exactly
distant spade
Well I found a cv1 for 250CAD
Might be able to get it for cheaper.
Can't use eBay if you're typing that.
fathom sigil
Oh, I'm not sure about the strength of CAD. I would say no more than $200 US or €200.
distant spade
186 usd according to google.
But I might be able to get it for cheaper. Or I can wait and find one for cheaper.
fathom sigil
You must keep in mind the rift is no longer supported, so any issues will never be fixed and no new features will come. It's a really good entry into vr though for that price ☺️
distant spade
I'm eventually gonna get something better, I've only ever tried psvr and HTC VIVE.
fathom sigil
Still though, it's a good value start. Make sure it comes with all accessories though
And make sure the seller has a few decent reviews
distant spade
He has no reviews :|
But it looks like it comes with everything.
Headset, 2 controllers, and then the 2 sensors.
fathom sigil
You can't guarantee it works
haughty thistle
The CV1 still has one of the best controllers out there, so if you can get it, and don't mind the 1080x1200 per eye resolution, I say go for it (that is if it works)
fathom sigil
eBay has good buyer protection, sometimes too good, but best case scenario you could waste your time if it doesn't work. I personally wouldn't
The CV1 still has one of the best controllers out there, so if you can get it, and don't mind the 1080x1200 per eye resolution, I say go for it (that is if it works)
^
haughty thistle
@sullen linden What I mean is basically what is underneath all the little divots in the top donut of the controller
(sorry for the large size, didn't realize the pictures from iFixit were this larger ^^")
young marten
🪛
flat pawn
anyone using a 3080 or 3090 right now for vr?
strong wind
nope I'm on an Rx580
flat pawn
I still have my 1080Ti, it does well enough
was curious if there was any sort of significant difference between the 3080 and 3090 in vr
it's not a very well explored topic
graceful robin
Anyone know of any methods to mount a 9ft wide (5ft tall) greenscreen for my VR setup?
I'd prefer not to attach things to the ceiling if I can (in this rented apt).
sullen linden
@haughty thistle Ye, those are all fine. I also cleaned the sensor's, works better now, doh a couple are like, slight "milky"~
Getting some slight faders randomly, but deal-able~
graceful robin
For the GS? Wouldn't work in my setup unfortunately. The dining room and living room are positioned in a way that there's only 1 spot it could fit in.
flat pawn
then I guess you would need two stands and drape a screen between the two posts
don't ask me how though lol
graceful robin
Yea, trying to find a 9ft long pole that would attach to tripods. Most of the google results seem to be like painting poles lol
flat pawn
would at least be more portable if you had posts
gentle coral
Oh let me share my greenscreen setup.
Use the third hand for freestanding areas, hold with camera accessory clamp.
For walls, attach velcro command strips to a metal plate, then use magnets to hold greenscreen to wall.
For ceiling I am using gaffer tape, though magnet system would work as well.
You can also use velcro command strips, a piece of wood, and attach a lighthouse to a wall. I have done stuff like this at many events.
graceful robin
Is it easily doable to take down or put it to the side when not in use? So I can sit on the couch to watch movies on the TV still?
gentle coral
Once you get used to it, yes. Also smaller greenscreens are easier i often use 12x20 and 10x30 greenscreens. I might also paint the magnets green at some point
forest falcon
I'm surprised Linus hasn't made a vid on the quest 2 yet
carmine wharf
its been like a week since it came out lol
forest falcon
still, linus is usually ahead of the curve when it comes to stuff like that, and im sure he could get one to test. id also trust his input more that a lot of other reviewers who have them
flat pawn
Do you follow any vr focused channels?
forest falcon
i do, but still
flat pawn
I'm waiting to see what sort of next generation headsets that may come from other companies
If quest 2 is comparable to an index in terms of resolution while being a standalone just imagine what htc or valve might put out
For pcvr
forest falcon
i think the vr world is gonna change in a big way, we're in for a bunch of crazy things
flat pawn
hell yeah I'm excited
carmine wharf
im hoping an index 2 comes out soon so i dont go out and buy an index like 1 month before a second one
graceful robin
For Room-scale VR, I would say that having more space available helps. I do have the NVIDIA Face Tracking available to zoom in and follow me.
harsh niche
they added the quest 2 to the setup finally pog
they're actually doing things and not being as lazy as I thought... hmm
pale orbit
I think the reverb G2 is a sign of things to come with the index 2, it's clear valve is refining things behind the scenes
but that doesn't mean it's coming anytime soon
sullen linden
they added the quest 2 to the setup finally pog
@harsh niche is that on the desktop app?
I don't see it on my phone so I'm guessing that it's on the desktop app.
harsh niche
I don't see it on my phone so I'm guessing that it's on the desktop app.
@sullen linden yeah desktop
harsh niche
same
carmine wharf
I'm hoping there's an index 2 but it doesn't come out after I buy a regular index
haughty thistle
I don't think a new Index is to come anytime soon. Considering how long it took Valve to develop the OG Index, I personally think that there's at least 2-3 years until the next Headset from Valve comes out. Remember that they allocated at least some of their resources to work with HP on the Reverb G2
With the 2-3 years being from the initial release date of the Index
gentle coral
Spring 2022 will probably be the big time for the true next generation of high end pcvr. By then eye traking, 4k per eye, and full body systems should cost a lot less, and 1000 dollars should get you a really good setup. Especially since addoption by then will be high enough that the manufacturers can lower their margins on hardware profit as software and game sales will offset it (though that requires the company to make software related income (valve, oculus, HTC, sony, and Google are the only ones who can currently do this easily. WMR has a problem as you use games from steam (there is a WMR store, but is gets very little use, and as partner companies need to make the headsets the only way they can profit is from the sale of the device. (This is one reason so many WMR headsets feel a bit less well built then their competition). HP has their push in the professional workplace that allows them to make up a bit by selling computers along with the headset in large amounts to business and VR arcades.
I am most excited about NeuroTech and biosensors being used in VR. I am lucky to have tried biosensing and neurotech in VR multiple times and be a part of the current research and testing of many of these devices. Controlling things with your mind is really cool. But still needs a lot of work. I would say if research goes well you would be able to make a character walk in VR by though by 2022 at the latest. Eye tracking, heart rate monitoring, and emg will be more useful much sooner.
I actually think eye tracking will be absolutely nessasary in any headset released after this holiday season due to it's benefits both immersion wise and processing wise. (Right now eye tracking hardware has an artificially increased price due to there still being many software patents, the hardware at volume should cost about 50 dollars).
I think next index will be 2022. They are waiting for the tech to have substantial improvement with lower cost and higher adoption. And considering their position, they can take their time.
This is the exact reason I am waiting tell 2025 to try and produce my VR headset, because even if I could build it right now, it would cost way to much at the very limited volume it would be sold at today, and almost no computer can run it right now. Also there are not that many games, apps, or experiences that take full advantage of high end vr systems. Being patient, but aware of what tech will be releasing when, you can lower costs dramatically while still making a great piece of tech.
pale orbit
gloomy crater
It's been five and a half weeks since I applied to order the index. I'm probably gonna have a different job by the time this thing gets to me
It's making me wonder how much time wasted is worth the exorbitant prices people are charging on ebay
Like, after a while, having to wait isn't worth the money saved by buying from valve
haughty thistle
For me, any sort of wait is worth a cheaper price, as I can wait on things, that I have something else to use in the meantime...
But then again, this is something everyone needs to wage off. Ultimatly, if you end up biting the bullet and buying from a Scalper, you're just proving that scalping works. If no one ever buys from scalpers, they will stop after some time, as they end up sitting on their unsold stock
gloomy crater
in my eyes, scalping is bad because people are wasting money / it's not worth it. But in this situation, it's the opposite
2 weeks worth of wage can cover the amount that waiting 8 weeks saves. That is what's annoying me rn
Time will always be more valuable than money to me, so if I waste $400 but save 8 weeks worth of waiting, I'll always take that move because $400 is $400 and we earn thousands of dollars during our lives, but we have limited time to enjoy the stuff we pay for. So yeah, that's $400 I no longer have, but that's 8 more weeks of my life that are more enjoyable because I have a headset.
Yeah, scalpers are annoying and angering sometimes, but with the index they're doing people a favor. They're still not good people, because if they were, they would be selling them for MSRP. But just the fact that they give people the option of paying more in exchange for not having to wait 8 miserable weeks of their short life for an index is enough to justify this specific situation in my eyes
gentle coral
I think the problem is that scalpers take up a big enough percentage of early adopters and hyped product purchases that it actually lengthened the time you have to wait. If there were no scalpers I would bet that long wait times would be somewhat shorter. Like going from 8 weeks to 4 weeks.
gentle coral
I think I might try doing some ray traced VR stuff in unity using their new HDRP, I bet I won't get more the 30 FPS. I just hope unity supports dlss2.1 and foveated rendering soon (as well as steamvr and openXR). Also Nvidia reflex would be great for VR.
modern totem
Is there a 3d replay mod for beat saber? I want to be able to go in space and see wtf is going on with the sabers not counting hits
I streamed to few friends and they got the feels that I shouldn't miss too but its too fast and 1st person recordings arent enough 4 me
sullen linden
You're probably better off asking that question in the beat saber discord
gray reef
What if it’s your main account and you’ve never used it because Twitter is better? 🤣
harsh niche
^this
haughty thistle
I used to have an FB account a while back as well. It had a bunch of information, that an AI would have no way of knowing it's not real, yet it got disabled permanently randomly, even though I was using it for a Facebook page for a YouTube channel I had back in the day. Decided to not go back, as I was on the fence about it anyways...
And before anyone says "uhh... suspicios name or anything?"
Well, I entered the House address of a Friend of mine who was fine with it and didn't had a Facebook account, used the name "Andreas Müller" which is like really common over here, and even used a Throwaway pre-paid Sim (without a monthly payment) for a phone number. They just decided it was fake randomly. My guess would be the PFP, but then again, how would I know
vale junco
pale orbit
it's not a fluke, the system automatically deleted his account probably because it flagged it as a secondary to someone who has a primary, he then complained and they reenabled it. I fully expect they'll get around to deleting it when someone actually reviews it
it's against their TOS to have multiple accounts
vale junco
Why are you assuming that he had a account in the first place?
pale orbit
vale junco
Account seems disabled, not linked on his twitch
pale orbit
it's linked on his youtube, perhaps they disabled all of his accounts when he made the second one and haven't re enabled his original
the fact of the mater is you won't be able to make a "throw away" account for your facebook vr headset, they will delete it eventually. it's against their TOS they are very heavy handed about "fake" accounts
vale junco
Having to use a Facebook account is one of the drawbacks you gotta live with when purchasing a headset that costs a lot less than the competition
And he apparently got the account he used for the page back?
pale orbit
he got it temp back, again it's probably all automated scripts running it, someone will review it and see he actually has two accounts and delete his fake one eventually
haughty thistle
I just want you to sit down and thing, as to how Facebook was able to get the price of this headset so far down. Just think of it.
From my perspective only 2 real options come to mine (and it's probably a mix of both):
- Software Sales
- Selling Data to advertisers
I just figured I'd mention this
vale junco
- Software sales, yes
- Selling data to advertisers, no
vale junco
no
pale orbit
yes
they do sell your data
you are the product
this is how facebook makes it's $
vale junco
Advertisers pay them to show you their ads which influences your purchasing decisions and thoughts
But it's not selling your data
There's a difference
pale orbit
in Mark Zuckerbergs own words describing his users handing over information to them "Dumb F***s"
vale junco
And they did also not sell data to Cambridge Analytica. They gave users the possibility to share too much data which was a huge fuckup
pale orbit
they sell your data, this is known it's been reported, read the blow back from cambridge analytica
vale junco
But it was still not selling data
Read your own fucking source.
'''The personal data of up to 87 million[27] Facebook users were acquired via the 270,000 Facebook users who used a Facebook app called "This Is Your Digital Life."[28] By giving this third-party app permission to acquire their data, back in 2015, this also gave the app access to information on the user's friends network; this resulted in the data of about 87 million users, the majority of whom had not explicitly given Cambridge Analytica permission to access their data, being collected. The app developer breached Facebook's terms of service by giving the data to Cambridge Analytica.[29]'''
pale orbit
they say it's "Sharing data" but they are getting paid one way or another
no company volunteers data for free
I find it highly amusing anyone would want to defend anything facebook does, they are scum
vale junco
I am not?
pale orbit
vale junco
Facebook is a garbage company, but that doesn't mean I support spreading false information
Here's a proper summary for you
pale orbit
yes because lets trust facebooks word when they pinky swear they aren't doing closed door deals
vale junco
Selling data is bad for their business. Facebooks business is being the one in control of your data so that they can present ads to the right person and make money
pale orbit
How does Facebook get this info? The social network provides partners tracking software they embed in apps, websites, loyalty cards and other systems. According to research by the Electronic Frontier Foundation, Facebook has so-called tracker pixels or cookie-sharing code on about 30 percent of the top 10,000 websites. it's give and take
vale junco
That has been well known for a long time
and has nothing to do with selling data
The tracking software is used for analytics
pale orbit
they are collecting that data, these companies aren't giving it to facebook for free
they are buying/selling it
again the user is the product
they don't want to openly say it's being sold so they use PR speak "Sharing data with partners" that's not how big business works
sure they "share" it, back and forth and it's paid for
vale junco
this is why websites use the tracking pixels
https://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/how-to-use-facebook-analytics-for-website/
haughty thistle
Any company collecting data is not willing to give it out for free. Since selling data obviously frowned upon, this happens behind closed doors, tightly lipped, but documents still leaked, and at this point it's an open secret that companies making their money with ads, are selling their user data, since just ad revenue is not enough
vale junco
They get a lot more insight into their audience that way
Not as a specific person, but what kind of person visits their website
pale orbit
Thanks to the “Off-Facebook Activity” tool, I now know that Home Depot told Facebook when I visited its online store, viewed an item or added an item to a shopping cart. The Atlantic shared the pages I viewed and devices I used, which it says inform its distribution strategy and help it target campaigns.
pale orbit
stiff lantern
Question, what graphics card would you all recommend for VR right now? I’m looking for something around the 2070 Super and 3070 FE price range, but I am not sure if there might be better/cheaper options.
stiff lantern
I have an i5-8400 and no experience with anything AMD. Would I be able to properly utilize both of those cards?
sullen linden
Well what VR headset do you have?
stiff lantern
Quest with the official link cable
pale orbit
sullen linden
You should be able to use the 5700xt at its full potential, Maybe even the rtx 2080 with a slight bottleneck
harsh niche
anyone know if I can install oculus games on multiple devices (pc with link)? I want my brother to be able to use my quest and he might buy me a game but if he buys it on my pc then he has to use my pc and I can't use it
scenic shore
@harsh niche Can you rephrase that? Do you mean if Oculus titles have crossbuy?
If that's your question, than my answer is that only a select few are crossbuy.
Here's a page on their store that shows all crossbuy games https://www.oculus.com/experiences/quest/section/2335732183153590/
harsh niche
@scenic shore no I mean if I can install oculus PC games on multiple devices
harsh niche
oh awesome
my brother might buy a game for me on my quest and install it on my pc, and when im not using it use it on his pc
good info thanks
sullen linden
Hey, you guys think my pc can handle vr?
i5-2500k 3.3Ghz ML120L watercooled
DDR3 2x4GB 1333mhz, 2x4GB 1600mhz
MSI GTX 1070
clear pendant
oh yea u will be fine, i run an i7 870, 16gb ddr3 1600, gtx 1060 6gb just fine on all my games
still void
Yep seems good
harsh niche
yeah ik you was gonna get it on pc if they had it
he said it was some ghost hunting game, it’s in steam I don’t know about oculus but I’m going to try steam family sharing too
charred brook
just spent a little time playing Squadrons and I can see how VR would be awesome
haughty thistle
@stiff lantern @sullen linden
Just thought I'd mention it: AMD GPUs tend to have problems with SteamVR. Things from just the audio not being detected to flatout crashing while starting up.
It doesn't happen as often anymore, but still something to be aware of when getting an AMD card for VR
fathom sigil
Can confirm, had issues with rx 580 8gb and virtual desktop on quest 1
It would just not have audio half the times i booted it up
fathom sigil
You forgot about the invention of the Frenkenquest 😜
sullen linden
So im on a Rift CV1 right now, and I'm upgrading to an index
would my pc be able to handle it at 120 or 144fps in most games?
i have a i7 9700, 2070 super, 16gb ddr4 3000 mhz
easy peasy lemon squeasy my friend
just don't get too optimistic about half life alyx on that system
i've already played it through
but ill probably go back and do it again
i was gonna leave it at 90 hz
but ive really never experienced more than 90
in vr
fathom sigil
Yeah that'll be a good pc for the job
sullen linden
Alright thanks guys
i still gotta wait till january
what for
avaliability?
nah to get it shipped to my house
i ordered it like 2 weeks ago
from what ive heard you have to wait like 12 - 15 weeks
and it usually ships within a week or 2
fathom sigil
Oof
sullen linden
yeah
but i still have my rift for now
someone else had told me i would have to wait the 15 weeks
then an extra 8
fathom sigil
I thought they were catching up on orders...
carmine wharf
wonder how many fps ill get on the index with my i5-9400 and rtx 2060 6gb, probably not 120 but ill be able to do 90 right
sullen linden
the orders are slowing down i think
definitely 90
i have a friend with a 1060 and a 9600k
carmine wharf
ok
sullen linden
and he gets 90 in most or all games
carmine wharf
i wonder if ill be able to do beat saber in 120 since its so light
sullen linden
might have to do medium settings in most games
carmine wharf
yeah i do that already
sullen linden
yeah beat saber could probably do 120
id recommend you turn the settings all the way down
and get mods
carmine wharf
i played half life alyx in medium but if i can reach 120 on low then ill gladly change it lol
played it on a quest over link
carmine wharf
oh no
sullen linden
wonder how that would've been
carmine wharf
its possible
sullen linden
yeah definitely
carmine wharf
ive seen somebody play through alyx on an index with a 1050 so
sullen linden
but the res would probably have to go down like 50%
carmine wharf
you can also do it with a 970 i believe
sullen linden
yeah
carmine wharf
880 
sullen linden
imagine someone tries playing on a gt 1030
carmine wharf
lol
sullen linden
i think anything like 980 or higher will play fine
fathom sigil
Lowspecgamer
carmine wharf
i wonder why
sullen linden
780 would probably do pretty bad
sullen linden
true
carmine wharf
Probably cuz it never existed 😂
@fathom sigil what
sullen linden
i usually think most things from like 4 years ago usually works at the very least
carmine wharf
why did they skip 800
tired parcel
800 series was OEM iirc
carmine wharf
hm
fathom sigil
Cuz Nvidia had an oem sku(?)
carmine wharf
cant wait to use my rtx 5080 ti for my valve index 4
sullen linden
imma be like 40 by then
fathom sigil
Increased resolution where you're looking, gameplay benefits, few others i forgot
carmine wharf
also how would eye tracking even work in such a small space
fathom sigil
And lower resolution where you don't look so higher fps
sullen linden
i think theres sensors around the lenses that would track your pupils or something
carmine wharf
i think theres sensors around the lenses that would track your pupils or something
@sullen linden how tho? that wouldnt work with an oled in a dark game
not enough light in there for pupil
fathom sigil
With the amount of light bleed some headsets have... 😂😂
I'm looking at YOU, quest 1
sullen linden
i mean they could use some night vision type thing or something to get it to work with dark environments
carmine wharf
i can litteraly look around my room and it fucking amplifies my light when i look in a certain direction
shines it right in my eye THROUGH THE TOP
idek how
fathom sigil
It's a feature, guys
sullen linden
but im not sure cuz oculus couldn't even get tracking to work in a dark room on their newer headsets
fathom sigil
Idk id love to see a decent eye tracking concept at some point
carmine wharf
of course it doesnt work in the dark
ive seen eye tracking before but when it comes out the forget to make the rest of the headset good
carmine wharf
we already have nice vr though
signal snow
yes but even nicer
sullen linden
how about
better
give it like 10 years
were gonna have omni treadmills everywhere
more, and better games
higher end headsets
fathom sigil
We have nice vr at home
Nice vr at home: oculus dk1
sullen linden
basically ready player one
carmine wharf
uhhh
right now omni mills are impractical
but when we have mind tracking stuff they will be real good
fathom sigil
Guess I'll build a warehouse for my quest 2 🤷🏼♂️
carmine wharf
wonder what version of usb we will be on in 2030
sullen linden
i feel like someone could make it work really well
carmine wharf
i feel like someone could make it work really well
@sullen linden not with our current technology. right now they kinda suck because they cannot determine your intent before you do it so it stutters when you start walking and it breaks you of immersion
rocky hemlock
does anyone know the name of the mod that tells you how much of the song is left in beatsaber?
carmine wharf
thats how it was on my quest, i enabled advanced mode and it gave me like time left and all that. might be different for pc but prolly not
sullen linden
i heard you can play subnautica vr
carmine wharf
you can
sullen linden
is it like natively or a mod
fathom sigil
Natively i believe
carmine wharf
yo wait squadrons is out?
fathom sigil
Idk
sullen linden
im kinda disappointed that the new walking dead game did bad
carmine wharf
well i mean the walking dead in general kinda went bad
carmine wharf
whats even the end goal of the walking dead
fathom sigil
🤷🏼♂️
fathom sigil
Jesus i must have 4000 ping
sullen linden
arizona sunshine kinda sucked
fathom sigil
I'm 4 parallel universes [behind] you
carmine wharf
i would get fiber but my mom doesnt like tds
and its very costly here compared to like everywhere else
carmine wharf
tds is the only internet company here with fiber
sullen linden
is an rx580 enough for vr? please ping if responding
carmine wharf
@sullen linden yes as its fairly similar to a 1060 i believe, however as somebody here earlier said amd cards are more prone to issue than nvidia cards when using vr, like not a LOT worse but you may experience more crashes
gloomy crater
So I've got a family member that wants to get into PCVR but their PC doesn't pass the recommended spec on the steamVR performance test, particularly their GPU. What's the best possible GPU to upgrade them to so that they can do actually playable PCVR with good performance? They're currently running a 4gb RX570, which I can confidently say does not provide a good VR experience
When I say best possible GPU, I mean they just don't have the money to buy anything close to 'new' or 'current generation' so they were hoping to pick up a used card from an older generation, but don't know what cards would provide the best performance for the prices they're available for
gloomy crater
They were gonna pick up a 1070ti but they were advised against it because of the current pricing
1070ti's go for $250 minimum at the moment, for reference (which they were told wasn't worth it). They wanna spend less than $300 but they also don't wanna get stiffed
carmine wharf
for $300 you can get a 2060 brand new im pretty sure lol
thats why a 1070 costs so much
harsh niche
yeah
gloomy crater
Most 2060's are just over 300
carmine wharf
yeah like $310 dollars
gloomy crater
and I doubt I'd be able to convince them to buy a 2060, even if the price was right
carmine wharf
a 2060 is like similar ish performance to a 1070 but its newer so, rtx, dlss, all that good stuff
rtx on my 2060 is kinda eh but dlss is delicous
lavish meteor
with software ray tracing coming out, will hardware ray tracing still be a big selling point?
carmine wharf
yeah for now at least
software ray tracing still lowers your fps a lot more than hardware ray tracing from my experience
carmine wharf
its perfect because my nitro expires in 2 days
it looks normal animated and not animated
flat pawn
carmine wharf
lol
zinc timber
The bare minimum for pcvr is probably an rx580 8gb
Used is like 100-130
flat pawn
anybody know anyone running a 30 series card for vr right now?
carmine wharf
yeah but for
somebody that already has a 570 buying a 580 isnt worth it when you can get a major upgrade within your price range
anybody know anyone running a 30 series card for vr right now?
@flat pawn probably linus if hes not dead from the apple people
flat pawn
hah
I'm in the market for one and I use VR a lot and I wanted to see what sort of differences there were between the 3080 and 3090 for VR
carmine wharf
not much
zinc timber
I mean, the rx 580 is the only used card worth buying rn imo
flat pawn
reviewers don't really talk about VR
zinc timber
It's not nearly common enough
flat pawn
do VR games require more vram in general over "flat" games
flat pawn
I just want to avoid a future situation where VR games get a jump in quality and start requiring 10+GB vram often
carmine wharf
they wont for a while
zinc timber
Basically any gpu that can do vr has at least 8gb though
carmine wharf
i run vr games just fine on my 6gb 2060, however i do have some shared vram so that might affect things
flat pawn
lmao nico
flat pawn
I got "I want it that way" stuck in my head the other day because of brooklyn 99
don't feel bad
lofty minnow
i like b99
flat pawn
it's funny as hell
carmine wharf
i have 6gb dedicated vram and 8gb total vram
carmine wharf
nice lol
flat pawn
the idea of downgrading my vram total after waiting a few years to upgrade is just weird to me
but it is faster
lofty minnow
dream b99 is the only sitcom i find acutally somewhat not annoying bcus no laughing track
zinc timber
Or 6900xt 16gb, if rumors are true
flat pawn
that won't happen before xmas though will it
carmine wharf
microsoft when tf are you gonna add the ability to measure cpu temp in task manager
zinc timber
6900xt or whatever Navi 21 is should be out before Christmas
flat pawn
I wanted to give my current pc to my cousin for xmas, she has no PC at all
zinc timber
Announcement is end of october
lofty minnow
lmao giving stuff for free is stupid
dont do it
sell it to them
or sell it to sm1 else
flat pawn
wtf it's family
lofty minnow
dont waste money like that
zinc timber
The spirit of Christmas
lofty minnow
so what
flat pawn
that's just rude
I'm not selling her the PC, I already told her
she offered me money and I turned it down
lofty minnow
its not rude
pale orbit
maybe the stock of 10gb 3080 cards is artificially low because nvidia is holding the gpu die supply back for the 20gb 3080 cards.
lofty minnow
its what u should do
pale orbit
zinc timber
But anyways, I assume Nvidia will respond to 6900xt with 3080 20gb
carmine wharf
i kinda agree, id never give away something that costs as much as a pc, but like something cheaper yeah thats fine
carmine wharf
thats fine
zinc timber
Since if rumors are true, you'll be able to get 3080 competitive gpu with more vram for probably less money
flat pawn
I've been thinking of a backup plan in case 30 series cards continue to be unicorns
carmine wharf
dream if you have the money to get yourself a new pc and want to give away your old one, go right ahead. they will enjoy it greatly
flat pawn
her bday is in March
pale orbit
there's always money in the banana stand
flat pawn
think 3080 20gb will be attainable by then lol
zinc timber
If amd is good see if they exist
flat pawn
hell, by then won't rocket lake be out?
zinc timber
Eh
carmine wharf
amd cpu: epic
amd gpu: no
zinc timber
11th gen not worth, probably
AMD gpus are fine
Nvidia has more software features, but also you uh
Can't buy them
So if amd has availability...
carmine wharf
they are incompatible with a lot of things i use and they seem to be unstable as well
carmine wharf
ya
zinc timber
Well yeah, amd doesn't do Nvidia proprietary stuff
flat pawn
is this the first year that amd is punching pretty high for the gpu market? aiming to compete with 3080, etc
zinc timber
First time in years
flat pawn
if so it'll be at least another year before people start to acknowledge amd as a true competitor in the high end
and until then they won't be as well supported, no?
zinc timber
Nah
5700xt was already recognized as good price-perf
Unfortunately, while the silicon was good, amd can't launch a gpu to save their gpu division
carmine wharf
i think the ir filter on my note is messed up
zinc timber
So the card was basically hot loud buggy garbage on launch
Hopefully amd actually wants to compete this generation and like
Have a competent launch
carmine wharf
my note main camera can see a TON more ir light than my iphone 8 could, dont know if its intentional
gray reef
If you do, get a 1660 Super it’s only about $20 more and it performs almost as well, and sometimes better than a 1660 ti
gloomy crater
So, I've already been using SteamVR to play stuff with my Quest 1 via oculus link. Am I gonna have to redo the setup process for steamVR once my index arrives? I know there's a whole thing to calibrate the base stations and everything, so I wanna know if I'm gonna have to do all that again before I'm able to play
carmine wharf
yeah
So, I've already been using SteamVR to play stuff with my Quest 1 via oculus link. Am I gonna have to redo the setup process for steamVR once my index arrives? I know there's a whole thing to calibrate the base stations and everything, so I wanna know if I'm gonna have to do all that again before I'm able to play
@gloomy crater im pretty sure you have to set it all up, even the guardian system since the quest uses an internal guardian system
its not hard though, just follow the instructions to set up base stations, establish tracking, then just walk around the play area with your headset im pretty sure
you can get it done in under 15 minutes
carmine wharf
ok
also, take that with a grain of salt as ive never set up base stations myself, just seen a lot of vive and index reviews
lofty minnow
red kinda sus!
carmine wharf
I have another question but I'm gonna have to explain a bit
@gloomy crater explain away im ready
gloomy crater
I'm making a horrible mockup of my situation in paint
carmine wharf
oh ok lmao
gloomy crater
basically my room layout is weird and i'm gonna be having my cables bent at a weird angle coming out of my computer, is it gonna do any bad
carmine wharf
as long as they arent bent like 180 degrees in like 1mm they are fine
my displayport is at the back of my pc and i plan on taping the safety breakaway to the underside of my desk if the cables are long enough
gloomy crater
this is what I made
carmine wharf
umm
pretty sure if you just properly secure the safety breakaway you will be 100% fine, only problem with that is i dont know exactly how long the cables are before and after the breakaway
gloomy crater
so yeah, they're gonna be coming out the back of my PC, and immediately gonna be taking an immediate turn
how long are the cables? I'm pretty sure the cable length is like, a substantial amount compared to the size of this room
carmine wharf
i think its 5m total
but around 4 meters after the breakaway? might need somebody with an index to fact check that one since its just from a quick google search
gloomy crater
okay. This room is like 4m*4m so I should be pretty much able to freely move about the room without running into cable length issues
carmine wharf
Yeah, so the cables from the pc and wall are 1 meter, and they go into the breakaway point which has a cable 4 meters long
Its on the official website
gloomy crater
sounds great. Can't wait for everything to go through. I'll be lucky if I get this thing before christmas. I clicked order back in august so I'm counting down the days until they let me actually buy it
fathom sigil
Couldn't you put your pc a bit sideways?
young marten
Wish I knew that Index takes months to even get to pay for it. I would have got in queue earlier.
carmine wharf
there should be an option to pre pay for it
now that i said that i dont really know what it means
gloomy crater
@young marten same. I would have queued to order back in june
and no, I couldn't really put my PC sideways at all. Just cause of the way my desk is set up.
young marten
I would have too
fathom sigil
yall lucky you can even afford it
gloomy crater
I have to sell my quest to a family member, and sell the copy of half life alyx it comes with to another family member, to be able to afford it.
carmine wharf
What happens if I place the order for it and I dont have the money when they ask for it
Do I have to wait again
I'm trying to figure out the optimal time to order if I'm gonna get my money by the end of February
distant spade
I wish I had the money to get a VR :/ was looking at an acer mixed reality headset but not sure, looks cheap af and I don't want it to break easily.
Or I've seen the Oculus cv1 sell for pretty cheap aswell.
trim vapor
My index comes today
Can’t sleep
Off the rails
I ordered mine late June
14 weeks it comes tofay
gentle coral
Around 21 hours ago people were asking about eye tracking, bci, and omni treadmills, and I have a few comments about those.
First up is omni treadmills-
They are stilla while out as they require a lot of hardware and software to work well, and are very bulky and expensive to build. But when they work well they are great. I haven't tried one but have talked with people at a few of the companies building them, and have seen many at events. I say 8 years tell it is viable for a home user.
Next is BCI-
This is also a while out but not as far, probably by 2025. Some of you might find it suprising that we are only 5 years away from controlling games with our mind, but if you are up to date on current neurotech it makes perfect sense. I will say I am biased on this as I have gotten to try out brain controlled VR experiences a few times (earliest was my friends webVR EEG block mover back in early 2018, and am a part of NeuroTechX (the world's largest neurotech, BCI, and biosensing community, and help host a number of their events). A few weeks ago we had an event called Neurotech and Gaming 2020, and had a ton of discussions about the current state of the industry and its future. With a proper dev who understands both UI and how we process visual data in the brain you can control many things already. (I have friends who have built brain controlled versions of driving games, tetris, pong, visual novels, escape room games, horror games, and Netflix Black Mirror Bandersnatch). We actually talk about it pretty often on our NeuroTechX SF hacknight meetings which are on YouTube (we will probably start livestreaming the meetings again next week). If I get to do my short presentation about HP omnicept and what it means for future devs, maybe I'll share a link, since it is on topic and related.
Finally Eye tracking-
This is already here, but is being locked down by patents and high prices. The actual parts for a good eye tracker are between 50 and 100 dollars even at a low volume. I have tried this tech many many times and it is very very useful. For the everyday user the biggest difference will be two main things, foveated rendering which can cut gpu processing by probably 25% and cpu by 10% (and when combined with DLSS it could be even further improved theoretically). And modified interaction methods for experiences and games. A simple example is visual triggers for dialogue or action (having an NPC talk to you if you look at them, have AN NPC tell you about an object you are looking at, having a character get angry at you for starting at them, being able to trigger things by following a path with their eyes)
Also about the way the hardware works. Many eye tracking systems use inferred LEDs to light up your eye, and inferred cameras to capture it (often monochrome high speed cameras around 2 to 4 megapixels work quite well). There are a lot of good ideas to improve accuracy and lower all associated costs (energy, processing, hardware, size).
The current easiest combo for good improvement in immersion is exactly what HP is doing. If you combine eye tracking, heart rate (hopefully it is actually a pulse oyx enabled sensor), and mouth tracking, you can infer quite a few things about the player in real time (would take to long to explain and I will make a video at some point on the subject of biosensors and BCI as inference systems.
upper delta
haughty thistle
Used Vive, Rift CV1 or WMR headset
haughty thistle
Tracking on WMR is not as good as one the Oculus Rift S/Quest, but it's pretty close and usable. The Tracking Rings on the Controllers are pretty big though, which limits portability, and can cause issues in some games like in HLA, but it's perfectly usable
WMR was originally meant as a Budget VR option, but of that pretty much nothing is left, as Facebook just hardcore undercut M$ by subsidizing Hardware cost with Userdata and software sales
WMR was meant as like the "Android" of VR with many different manufacturers making Headsets under one common software scheme. What's left of WMR as new headsets is pretty much HP with their Reverb Line of headsets, but you can still find headsets from other brands like Lenovo, Dell, Acer, Samsung (only in some regions) and Asus. Most of them (including the HP 1000VR) are pretty much the same headset, just with a different Design. The HP Reverb (G2) and Samsung Odyssey(+) are so far the only ones that went off the initial Reference HW which is the following: (I'll be leaving out the Reverb Line as it's not really a budget option)
1440x1440 per eye LCDs (1440x1600 OLED on the Samsung)
Halo-Type Strap with a flip-up Visor (w/o Flip-Up hinge on the Samsung)
3.5mm Headphone jack with 4-pole Microphone Support and no built-in microphone (Samsung does have built-in headphones and a mic, but no headphone jack)
2 B/W Tracking Cameras on the front with Passthrough
A small Trackpad and Analog Stick per controller plus a Menu and Home button on each controller (Samsung has a more ergonomic Design compared to the rest)
gloomy crater
I would totally buy a Reverb G2 because of the higher display resolution if the controllers weren't so bad. If I had the ability to use the G2 out of the box with the Index controllers, it would be a done deal. But because you have to buy a set of base stations, the actual controllers, and a set of tracking hubs to use the index controllers with anything other than the index, it would end up costing more than just buying an actual index
gray reef
Does Steam VR use noticeably less resources than the official Oculus Store?
haughty thistle
Alone, the Oculus system has slightly more overhead then SteamVR, but I wouldn't call the difference game changing. Using an Oculus headset with SteamVR however, just adds the Overhead from SteamVR ontop of Oculus Home, which is a significant margin. While I always keep saying that the Quest requires double the System performance to get similar framerates as the Index on SteamVR, a similar story can be told about the Rift S, as I did get noticably worse Framerates then on the Index, albeit not as badly (I'd say about 10-30% worse performance on the Rift S then Index).
This is because Oculus Home keeps all it's background Stuff running, even when SteamVR is active, whereas WMR (and I think Vive Port too, but don't quote me on that) turns off most of it's background stuff, to keep SteamVR performance as close to Native performance as possible.
If I'd be wearing a tinfoil hat, I'd guess that this is because Oculus/Facebook want's you to spend your money on their Platform, rather then Steam, but the more likely reason is due to bad coding
subtle schooner
oh hey zuck's zuckerburger, you're here too
gray reef
Yep, sometimes I need PC help, and all the people here are really helpful, yesterday I almost blew up my motherboard and a couple people helped me discharge my capacitors
fathom sigil
Alone, the Oculus system has slightly more overhead then SteamVR, but I wouldn't call the difference game changing. Using an Oculus headset with SteamVR however, just adds the Overhead from SteamVR ontop of Oculus Home, which is a significant margin. While I always keep saying that the Quest requires double the System performance to get similar framerates as the Index on SteamVR, a similar story can be told about the Rift S, as I did get noticably worse Framerates then on the Index, albeit not as badly (I'd say about 10-30% worse performance on the Rift S then Index).
This is because Oculus Home keeps all it's background Stuff running, even when SteamVR is active, whereas WMR (and I think Vive Port too, but don't quote me on that) turns off most of it's background stuff, to keep SteamVR performance as close to Native performance as possible.
If I'd be wearing a tinfoil hat, I'd guess that this is because Oculus/Facebook want's you to spend your money on their Platform, rather then Steam, but the more likely reason is due to bad codingoculus keeps itself running at all times, 24/7 and updates itself too which is extremely annoying because you cant cancel them. me with my 10mbps internet feels each time it does that crap
sly falcon
I need a longer cable for my quest any cheap ones??
austere wharf
@gloomy crater something I did was I bought a longer hdmi and usb cable for the pc side of the box and it works fine
harsh niche
anybody seen the game phasmophobia
going to get the game now to play on pc and when my quest 2 gets here have the shit scared out of me
carmine wharf
what is phasmophobia even about
plain cedar
How are you guys storing your vr headsets?
I have mine just laying on the desk and it takes up sooo much space.
carmine wharf
i keep my quest in its carrying case and idk how im gonna store my index, either on my desk or in its box or maybe ill buy a case
guess i could 3d print a lens cover to keep dust off of it and just leave it wherever
harsh niche
@carmine wharf it's a ghost hunting game that's really freaky
carmine wharf
ok
i forget who here has an index
i want to ask them if its viable to store it in the box when you arent using it
carmine wharf
you have an index?
plain cedar
Yeah
carmine wharf
ok
plain cedar
It might be handy, but as far as I reminder getting the cable down there might be annoying
carmine wharf
oh i dont need to
i can just take all the inserts out of the box and just set it in there
since im not gonna have base stations or anything else in there i suppose it would work just fine
carmine wharf
i think im gonna take the breakaway point and attach it to my desk somewhere, then run all the cables to it and just disconnect the headset from there when im not using it
carmine wharf
i really do :)
plain cedar
Everything is thought off
With high quality cables and brackets included
Makes Oculus look like a bad joke
carmine wharf
Probably gonna put breakaway point there if it fits, possibly under my desk
hasty hornet
Hello
plain cedar
I just have mine perma connected to breakaway point rn
carmine wharf
ive got displayport and usb 3 on the back of my pc and power plug under my desk, i also have a hole in my desk behind my monitor to run cables through nicely
carmine wharf
honestly the main thing im worried about leaving it on my desk is dust
hasty hornet
Guys dk2?
carmine wharf
yeah what about dk2
hasty hornet
Where can I get the drivers?
carmine wharf
how would that fit an index
carmine wharf
and also dangling it under my desk exposes the lenses to sunlight
carmine wharf
ive got at least 4 months to figure out all these important things
carmine wharf
i can
$35? not bad
but still, exposes the lenses to dust and sunlight
also their website says they ship oustide the us so
gentle coral
I wish headsets came with lans covers, it would make stuff much easier.
carmine wharf
yeah
plain cedar
$20 checking fee at customs, like $15 shipping for them to ship it to me after checking, and 25% vat on top of course.
So ill be paying over double
carmine wharf
i found 1 3d model for index lens covers but it requires tpu plastic which i cant print so
plain cedar
I purchased things outside EU once, never again.
carmine wharf
oof]
plain cedar
Ordered like 2 shirts for 50 bucks total, ended up paying around 120
plain cedar
Yeah you could probably just stick a cloth in there actually
carmine wharf
mm messy
carmine wharf
wait index includes a cloth?
plain cedar
Yeah
carmine wharf
cool
plain cedar
Really fine microfiber cloth
gentle coral
It is a Mobile cart, so i can't restrict the wires
plain cedar
With a cool print on it
carmine wharf
hey so speaking of cleaning cloth
gentle coral
I plan on building myself a custom VR cart for home soon as I have built a few before for mobile vr setup. That should have cleaner wiring
carmine wharf
whats the best way to clean valve index and oculus quest lenses? alchohol and microfiber cloth? water? just microfiber cloth?
gentle coral
I usually use just microfiber these days as I always forget which headsets use what coatings.
carmine wharf
ok
gentle coral
But other people in this chat might know specifics for different headsets. I just take care of to many headset at different events and don't want to make a mistake.
carmine wharf
btw the oculus quest box experience is pretty good
lavish hamlet
I've been looking for some better audio for my rift s, anyone have any recommendations?