WHAT
#virtual-reality
left mango
800
left mango
Because we needed a new tv and we hadn’t bought one in a while so we bought an expensive one
Now you can get a 4K tv for 200 dollars
And 8k VR will be amazing
One day
sullen linden
that
would be like
y e a r s
like 5
Not too long
Honestly once we hit the 2000 anything is possible
left mango
2000?
left mango
Oh yeah
left mango
Very true
sullen linden
Bro why were people obcessed with war
we could of got to 8k back then if they were not so CRAZY on BLOOD SHED
😠
left mango
Every since the invention of the computer hundreds of years of inventions have been compressed to decades if not less
sullen linden
The reason why people say that video games look so real its fake
is because the state we are in universally
everyone has evolved
so pirates dont exist my guy
I get what they mean but its funny
LIke YES Texas back then looked amazing
left mango
Yeah video games look very good now
left mango
Yeah
sullen linden
I could have a dream and some video game will replicate it EXACTLY
its like going into a alternate universe
left mango
My pc isn’t powerful enough, but I am building a pc
sullen linden
But seriously
Graphics and good story telling go hand in hand
Most times good story telling can go light years ahead
Personally i hope in the future we get more people to potray stories
and not just generic basketball game 20XX 8k
Id be disappointed if my son played 2k
and it still didnt actually have a good story\
left mango
I don’t play sports games, but I bet some of them are pretty good
sullen linden
eeeh
I want my son to play his first jrpg
kindom hearts to him will be xenoblade
i just want my son to love games so much he collects them and stuff
like be passionate about it
I want him to be like ME
haughty thistle
I just want to tell ya guys that this is still the VR chat and not for general rig/HW talk ^^
We talked about it earlier, but I think it's time to move to a different channel
haughty thistle
Not judging anyone, I participated in this talk earlier myself
The Xbox team made it very clear that they have no interest in VR
WMR was made by the Windows Team at Microsoft, not the Xbox Team
haughty thistle
So they'd need to form another teamwork internally to get WMR on Xbox, but considering the attitude the Xbox team gave over VR, I don't think that's gonna happen anytime soon
haughty thistle
The Ps4 does VR, by cheating
sullen linden
?
haughty thistle
The PSVR headset runs at either 1920x1080 (so 960x1080 per eye) at 90Hz or 1280x720p (so 640x720 per eye) at "120Hz". In both cases games usually use some sort of frame interpolation to get those framerates. Non-the-less PSVR is running on a Console, meaning optimizations can be put into place. The Facebook Quest runs on a Snapdragon 835 (a Smartphone processor), and can achieve 1440x1600 per eye resolution at 72Hz
On the Quest all games actually run at 72Hz, but at significant graphical downgrades
sullen linden
does the link help?
haughty thistle
Honestly, Link doesn't help
It makes the games run on your PC rather then on the Quest
But the problem is, because it has to compress the image on your PC, it has a significantly higher load on your PC then a native headset (I get more then double the framerate on my Index then on my Quest), but also because the signal is send over a USB cable, the Image Quality is significantly downgraded, with visible Color fringing (aka reduced color space) and a blurry image due to the lower res image send over the cable
Quest Link is only worth investing in, if you already got a Quest and wanna play PCVR on it, rather then getting a new Headset
If you want to get a headset for PCVR, get anything but the Quest
sullen linden
luckily i still got the cv1
left mango
Yeah Microsoft could make a ton of money off of VR for Xbox, hopefully that statement was a lie to make a surprise for VR for Xbox bigger, although it’s highly unlikely
noble kestrel
yeah, I do think that it wouldnt be impossible to make it so you can just plug in a normal wmr hmd to a console or somethin like thay
sullen linden
might need to get an adapter set with it
but the new xbox is just a beefy gaming pc at a low price
jesus The XBOX is looking CRAZY good
They can do alot id say.
If wmr gets a new ver that can be ran on the new xbox
then that can open to more people and hell be able to make some games cross platform
Ps5 say anything about vr?
steady portal
Linus iblame you for my beat saber addiction lol
dry dove
i just want my index 😦
copper summit
Yo do you think an rx580 is okay for most vr games? Looking to play mostly beat saber, robo recall, stormland, and maybe a few others
And super hot
lofty minnow
580 is okay for sh and bs and rc
soft hound
Yeah, it should be alright
I just finished playing VR for an hour and a half on a GTX 950M, purely for experimental purposes
haughty thistle
I can tell you from experience tho, that playing on a 750Ti is not even worth trying 😉
modern totem
will 1300mAh batteries be enough for rift s controllers or should I get 2k
still torrent
@modern totem I've clocked 18 hours on the included stock AA's if it helps. Oculus software alleges 3/4 bars left.
haughty thistle
I've got 1.9Ah rechargable AAs (Eneloop regular), and they last quite a while in the Oculus controllers, and I'd guess about 8h in the WMR controllers
wanton marten
i heard rumors about that chip, that it will be a big jump
but 3.6x damn , that's impressive
4.4x on multicore
modern totem
lol bought pavlov and getting a refund in 10 mins after buying, grenades are way too op shit no matter on what server I go there is always one tryhard that knows them all and kills u in 2 seconds
noble kestrel
if you want a better shooter, get contractors, pavlov is kinda mediocre
worldly glen
pavlov isn't really known for its normal tdm and snd game modes, its more so known for its modding support. Id try playing on some TTT servers or some CODzombies maps before refunding it.
brisk sand
@modern totem eneloops or eneloop pros
Best batteries on the market
I personally have eneloop pros. Theyre amazing. I've gotten around 18 hrs out of a charge I think. Ive never timed them
haughty thistle
Like I said, I got regular eneloops, and have 0 issues with battery life with them. Considering their significantly cheaper price, I honestly don't know if it's worth the extra for the pro. Especially as the higher capacity comes at the cost of the amount of recharges you get
haughty thistle
I get more then 8h out of my Index controllers. But honestly, it's not that big of a deal to me, as I can plug them in while use and get infinite playtime (although wired then)
Also, when a normal person who gives even the slightest bit about their health wouldn't play more then like 5-6h in a single session. So a recharge in-between is totally possible
still torrent
Any sales on VR titles rn?
Interested in Saints & Sinners, Boneworks, Skyrim VR. They're all full price everywhere I've looked.
haughty thistle
Ever looked on http://steamdb.info ?
still torrent
I've been using DLcompare 'cuz it compares multiple vendors.
But a lot of sketch sites.
solemn crater
Will the 30 series finally support ray tracing in VR?
noble kestrel
maybe on light games but Im not sure
solemn crater
most headsets run on around 1440 so if they're looking at 4k - 8k resolution output on new card i cant see why not.
And if it isn't a thing yet it totally should be.
hexed notch
yes they added support for dlss in vr
feral junco
:/
I cant get any VR headset cuz they cost so much and I am waiting for the Oculus RIFT S 2 cuz I dont want oculus quest
gleaming elbow
get a pimax
haughty thistle
The way that Oculus/Facebook has been going lately, I honestly don't think Facebook will ever release another native PCVR headset, like the Rift or Rift S
The next best option really is either a used Gen1 headset (like the Rift CV1 or Vive), a used WMR headset or the HP Reverb G2
And with PiMax, due to their lens distortion issues, I can only really reasonably recommend those to VR veterans, who have already conquered VR motion sickness
gleaming elbow
for real i thought they fixed the lens with the 8k a few years ago
that is a big sad.
haughty thistle
Well, they did manage to make the issue not as bad as it used to be with pre-production units, but it's still there.
I've heard quite a number of people can't use their PiMax for long play sessions as they would get sick otherwise. One even said it was like wearing a pair for drunk glasses (those that try to emulate drunk vision)
gleaming elbow
so if we hate facebook and cant use a pimax we use the steam vr?
haughty thistle
The HP Reverb G2 with it 600/700$ price tag is a good stopping point. Yes, it's more expensive then both the FB Quest/Rift S, but it's miles better too
rustic garnet
Will a rift s cable work with the og rift?
gleaming elbow
FB own oculus now, such lol much shwow.... ill put the hp on my list of tech to acquire till something better comes out
pine raft
what vr headset should i buy, like what's your guys' favorite
rustic garnet
Something not facebook
haughty thistle
^
pine raft
Lol the quest used to be good
haughty thistle
Btw. the Rift S cable will not work on the Rift CV1, due to the CV1 using HDMI and the Rift S using DisplayPort
rustic garnet
Hp reverb, valve index, one of the WMR sets if you're on a tighter budget
pine raft
Thanks @haughty thistle and @rustic garnet
rustic garnet
Doesn't DP have passive compatibly with HDMI?
haughty thistle
Well, the Quest itself is still good, but FB taking over Oculus is not just a general concern, but for PCVR, litterally anything is better. Even the Vive Cosmos with it's atrocious tracking and it's way to high price point
rustic garnet
Rift support used to be good
haughty thistle
Well, yes and no. DP has passive HDMI support, but the connector on the Rift CV1 only has support for a native HDMI signal, whereas with DP you'd need a passive adapter, which sets up DP for HDMI mode
rustic garnet
Now they're dissing their most loyal customers from the CV1 days
pine raft
Dang thats rough
haughty thistle
I honestly find it kinda sad, that the manufacturer of the once best VR controllers, is going down due to Facebook
pine raft
Ikr
haughty thistle
But I guess that's what you get when you make a deal with the devil (aka one of the large 4: M$, Google, Apple, FB)
pine raft
Lol fb being the devil?
haughty thistle
Yep
rustic garnet
That's never happened before right guys?
pine raft
lol
haughty thistle
Nooo... Never did any acquisition, by one of large 4 has ever ended in the company going down. Never. Not once. Especially with Google and Microsoft. /s
rustic garnet
negative latency
remote girder
Anyone here used psvr on pc?
wanton marten
i heard that you can but you would have to google on your own.
rustic garnet
Why? @remote girder
young marten
There are nice apps for that. I use iVry to play vr with my phone.
remote girder
@rustic garnet just curious have psvr and was wondering if it is worth it to set it up on my pc
young marten
It'll work but don't expect much.
noble kestrel
it is psvr after all, its alright but you cant expect the quality you would get from any true 6dof headset
haughty thistle
Technically speaking, the PSVR is a 6DOF headset. It's just limited in range due to its single camera
But the bigger issue with PSVR on PC is that there's no native software support, and thus you have to use some sort of emulation of a native controller. Due to the PS Move controllers being so different then anything on the market in the PCVR space, this emulation is only barely usable imo
gentle coral
I just remembered the hardware Samsung was developing a few years ago, and am now angry that Samsung has not released a stand alone VR headset yet. (At least 2 years ago they still had the talent to develop and release their own headsets but many of those people are elsewhere now.)
I think NDA's might be a part of the problem at this point (none of the early VR hardwear devs are able to create their own headsets as they had non competition clauses in termination contracts at places like oculus and a few other places. And a lot of the hardware talent is in AR right now.
I would say it would currently cost 5 to 10 million for a decent team of 10 people to create a VR headset that is competitive to Quest in under a year. (not counting full production, just make a working headset). I've met people who if they were enabled or not behind NDA's could easily build their own VR headsets, and have helped a few myself. Quest really needs some form of competition and soon, I really hope something pops up soon.
vapid depot
i have come bringing leaks
nothing about refresh rate
2k per eye res
qualcomm xr2
and up to 256GB storage
6GB RAM
and you're welcome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD52-cqnAI8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD52-cqnAI8
useless videos but here ya go
check the channel for even more videos
haughty thistle
What bothers me about the screen resolution is that it's so vague
almost 2K per eye
That can even mean something like 18XX x 2048 or something
But one thing is for certain: if it ships for the leaked price of 299$, then they will cross-finance it with your data. And pretty heavily at that
almost 4k
Can litterally be anything from slightly above 1440p to not quite Cine 4k (4096x2160)
open gull
I guess we will just have to wait and see
lofty minnow
im selling my valve index.
or should i 🤔
i mean saving up money pretty much qlso better screen
noble kestrel
Im not sure if I would sell an index for a quest, even if better resolution
lofty minnow
its also wireless
i dont give a shit if facebook takes my data
everyone else steals it anyway lmao
haughty thistle
"wireless"
If by that you mean VR with the graphics quality of smartphone games. Because that's all they've shown off on that thing in those videos
Also, remember that Quest Link on the regular Quest already makes the image noticeably soft. And they're already using up most of the USB 2.0 bandwidth
Lastly, a big concern for me would be comfort. I actually just tried stuffing an Index Faceplate into my Quest, and it made it much more comfortable then both the (what feels like hard rubber, but is supposedly foam) official faceplate as well as the VRcover Interface replacement. By the looks of it, they're using the same style of facial interface again, which would make stock comfort suck imo
rapid oar
My VR experience has been disappointing I have a htc vive paired with a ryzen 7 and a 1070 ti. Anyone know how I could make it better everything is blurry in the headset and is not immersive at all please help.
void sky
@rapid oar I don't know a lot about the Vive or the capabilities in VR of a 1070Ti but here is some things I would try.
Simple stuff first:
1. Get your eyes tested (sounds silly but worth doing)
2. Clean the lenses with microfibre before every use
3. Use a phone app to measure your IPD and set it appropriately in the headset
Some things that aren't so obvious
4. Check it is running at 100% render resolution. (1070Ti is still a decent enough GPU for a lot of VR titles)
5. Maybe bump up the render resolution a little, watch your frames but try to get around 125% for a little extra clarity
That's all I can think of, off the top of my head. Hope that helps. I'm sure others here will have more things you can try.
@lofty minnow why not keep both lol.
If the price leak is correct then we may be in for a shock.
Possibly $299 for the 64GB model (and they mentioned a $399 256GB variant)
I'm still very sceptical but with the 256GB model now confirmed it does lend credibility to the price leak.
haughty thistle
@rapid oar @void sky
Phone apps aren't accurate at all, unless you're using an iPhone, since the App would need to be calibrated to the camera, which is not possible with basically most apps
A better way would be to do the following (a bit more involved, but is miles more accurate):
- Find a long ruler (like a 30cm one) and go with it to a mirror
- Close your right eye and line up the 0 mark on the ruler with the center of your left eye
- Now close your left eye and open your right eye
- Put a finger to the mark that is approximately underneath the center of your right eye
- Now take the Ruler away from your face, while still holding your finger at the mark
- Read the mark you were holding your finger agains
I did this and got a more accurate result then my optician apparently, 'cause they used a camera to approximate my IPD, which wasn't the right value btw for VR, but good enough for my glasses (they measured 66mm, I measured 67mm; the latter is clearer in VR for me)
gentle coral
I am both excited and sad, as oculus just curb stomped any standalone VR competition from happening anytime soon, if they do sell the headsets at a loss. I hate facebook with a passion, but oculus made the exact correct moves that a number of industry round tables discussed at GDC 2019.
The headset will probably be fantastic, and they might have even fixed the link cable problem (as the XR2 chipset should support displayport alternate mode directly).
I am still excited for my Reverb G2 as I care about PCVR more the standalone at the moment.
humble sky
Does anybody know if an ethernet cable has enough bandwidth capability to be rigged to extend the length of my Index? - The computer I have my desktop in isn't big enough for VR, but the room next door does and I was brainstorming ways to extend the USB and displayport cables through my wall/attic space
haughty thistle
Generally speaking: no. A standard Lan Cable is only meant for up to 10GBase-T transfer speeds (aka 10 Gbit/s in both directions simultaneously), as DP 1.2 has a bandwidth north of that and the Index uses quite a bit of that Bandwidth, you might be SOL.
There are adapters to transfer DP 1.2 over LAN, but those are proprietary adapters and your milage may vary
A safe way to do it would be to grab a long optical DP 1.2 extender. These are quite significantly more expensive, but since they just convert the signal into an optical one and back, they should just work
past pendant
i hope the valve index will release in switzerland
ive been waiting for 2 year now and still nothing has happened
😦
gloomy crater
I clicked the button to order the index last month, and I have to wait 8 weeks for it. During that time, I was planning on selling my quest to my sister to be able to afford the index, but now that she could buy a straight up better headset for less money (quest 2), I'm gonna feel like a jerk selling it to her. Any ideas what I should do?
I've still got roughly a month before I have to pay for the index, but I'm $560 short for it, which is what my sister was going to pay for my quest, so I have to make a decision by then.
acoustic gate
sell your quest online then
gloomy crater
A big part of what I'm charging is for my oculus account, which I was giving to her since it has all my purchases on it and she needs them more than I do now that I'm on steam. I can't exactly sell my account, with all my personal information on it, to a complete stranger, so I would probably not make enough on the sale to cover the index
gloomy crater
I was charging $350 for the quest itself, $75 for the deluxe audio strap, $60 for the copy of half life alyx I would be getting with my index since I already own it, and another $75 for my oculus account because that's roughly what all the games on it cost. So, since I would only be able to sell the hardware, I would probably only make around $425 on the sale, which isn't enough to cover the index.
unborn sequoia
Has anyone here played The Way of Kings: Escape the Shattered Plains? Its got mixed reviews but it seems entertaining/fun enough for fans of the book.
gloomy crater
She said she's still interested in buying it, but I'm gonna wait for official pricing and availability on the quest 2 before I do anything
haughty thistle
1832x1920 per eye Resolution
3 IPD settings
It seems like a really good headset. Too bad they're subsidizing the hardware through user data :/
gentle coral
If Europe forces facebook to back down (which i hope happens), i might get a quest for myself. For now I will probably get one for a non profit i work with
shadow spruce
So, with the new Oculus Quest 2 Announcement... I've just made up my mind to buy Rift S
In the nearest weeks
Do you guys think it's worth to buy Quest 2? I plan on only using it with PC
wanton marten
If you are comfortable with Facebook collecting every inch of your identity, quest 2 is pretty much every way better unless FQ2 link will work worse than Rift S, which I can't tell until somebody has tested it and compared it.
young marten
I watched a bit of Norm's review where he said it still has some compression in the image over link. https://youtu.be/_x6lux6f_6g at 27:40~
It was just a one off line but I would think the link still looks pretty good.
wanton marten
I wonder how it works on virtual desktop because my friend is using VD on Quest 1 and has very minimal issues with it.
I thought that HP G2 release date will be released today
gloomy crater
I'm sometimes skeptical with how much can really be done with what facebook is collecting from forcing users to be connected with a facebook account to play VR. Like, yeah, they can peddle more advertisements, but I don't actually use facebook, like, at all. So I don't really get what impact it would have on me for a corporation to have information about me. I'm all for online privacy and everything, but I just don't have a good grasp about why that privacy is so essential
With that being said, I'm selling my quest to my sister and buying a valve index. Once the whole virus thing blows over and I find myself travelling again, I might consider buying a quest 2 to use while I'm not at home
haughty thistle
Well, the problem with privacy is hard to explain, but a good analogy would be to say, that with using an Oculus headset with an FB account, you basically show your house to a stranger in full detail, and let them record everything
Oh wow. I had a type in my message, and the bot reacted... oof
Basically the TL;DR of that was that people with enough data about you can not just track your every step, but also influence your opinions. Whether you think you're immune or not
gloomy crater
Well, I can understand that. The spot where that gets iffy for me is children. I don't care about some creeps looking at my sick collection of video game replicas while I shoot hot dogs in VR. But if I had, say, a young daughter who was interested in VR, I certainly wouldn't want facebook peeping into my child's room
Huh. I just realized this channel's name got changed
agile abyss
Hello
I am trying to decide what VR headset I should get. I am going to use this for a Varity of games but I am also a developer who is planning to learn how to make vr games/experiences
My budget is £650 though I can wait and save some more money. Note I definitely Don't want anything to do with Facebook. I was considering the Rift S but that has all change
I was think
I either Buy a new HP Reverb G2 its £640 in the UK but I might need to wait until November or December until I get one
Or I Buy Used
So either the Original Vive/Vive Pro
a used Index
Or I get an older WMR Headset Like the HP Reverb G1/HMD Odyssey+
If you have one of these headsets let me know what your experiences is with tracking and visuals.
I will note I have used a Range of VR headsets before so I am not a total Strange but I am finding it hard to make a choice
jolly geode
Vive is a good choice
Also I made a dummy account for the oculus sign in
And put a bunch of fake info
unkempt wing
i might get valve index soon
@agile abyss my friend had a HTC hive and it was cool but if you are looking to spend that ammount of money, might as well go for the valve index, hasbetter resolution and tracking, finger tracking and the controllers are said to be better
agile abyss
I originally was not really consider the valve index because of the price but I have checked on ebay and some other sites and some of the prices people are selling it at is not to bad but I will need to save up a bit more
but I am keeping it in mind
gloomy crater
I wanna buy an index, but when I tried to order it, they told me I had to wait 2 months. I checked second hand and people are selling used ones on ebay for more than buying a brand new one
agile abyss
yeah I do also have that problem
or thier not selling the full kit
which makes it very hard to work with
gloomy crater
I would recommend you get a Reverb G2. Even if you do decide you want an index, you'll either have to pay way too much for it, or you'll have to wait a matter of months to be able to order it. Best to just get your hands on the G2 than deal with the overpriced BS or waiting for valve's assembly lines to get their act together
unkempt wing
honnestly dont buy it seccond hand
new will costs 1050 ish
and yes i ordered mine 4 weeks ago and havent heard from them yet, can take up to 2 months indeed
agile abyss
I am really leaning heavily to the Reverb G2
gloomy crater
Yeah, VR headsets are just one of those things that you only should really buy second hand if you're absolutely desperate and don't have any other options
unkempt wing
^
agile abyss
hmm didn't realise it was like that for VR
unkempt wing
my friend is selling a barely used HTC vive for 500 euro
gloomy crater
I am selling my quest 1 to a family member to be able to afford the index. By my calculations, I should be able to order it by around this time next month if they weren't lying when they said I could order it in 8 weeks
agile abyss
because I know its fine for cameras to buy it second hand
unkempt wing
he used it like 4 times but he's going into the militairy so he is selling it. where are you from @agile abyss
agile abyss
UK
unkempt wing
gbp then
gloomy crater
It's something you wear, like clothing, but attached to your face for hours at a time. That makes people reluctant to buy one from someone that they know has had it pressed up against their face, sweating into it and stuff. Even if it's sanitized after, people prefer buying new to avoid it
Yeah a vive might be a good fit
unkempt wing
if you have decided and you want the vive HTC ( not the pro one) i could perhaps link you to him and you cna buy his, we're both from the netherlands so it would have to be shipped but he's selling it for 500, been used 4 times total.
the mad lad bought it forgetting that he's going into the army AKA never home never time to do it even
agile abyss
I will keep it mind
unkempt wing
455.34 thats what it would cost you btw
without shipment idk how much that would be
agile abyss
probably like 500 with shipping. the might be custom fees as well
I am not in a rush to make my choice and buy but thanks for the offer
unkempt wing
honestly the box is quite small, im not sure that it would cost that much, perhaps 10$ import and 10$ shipping.
yes no problem, i just remembered it and it would help you + him since he needs money and you get it for cheaper. and its basically new otherwise i wouldnt even reccomend it as jay said
sweaty headsets no thanks
gloomy crater
Huh. Someone on ebay is selling the full index kit for 1200, but it's local pickup only, so I would have to driver 3.5 hours to pick it up and then the same distance back
I'd be paying like $400 extra for the overpay and gas combined
unkempt wing
for me index costs 1050 euro. the full kit
agile abyss
not sure if screenshots are allowed here but I did see it for £600 as the cheapest price with htc 1.0 base stations bidding and £850 buying it out right
unkempt wing
well i wouldnt trust that at all
if the base price is 1000 minimal i wouldnt trust 600 a bit
gloomy crater
That would be tempting if I weren't born in americaland
unkempt wing
i wouldnt do it
gloomy crater
Over here, new kits not bought directly from valve are almost universally $1500, or like £1200 IIRC
unkempt wing
such an expensive piece of tech wthat is quite sensitive, selling it for almost half its price is just a big no no
gloomy crater
maybe that conversion is wrong, I can't remember off the top of my head
jolly geode
My friend wants to sell me his Rift S for $100
I mean I want to take him up on the offer
sullen linden
Huh. Someone on ebay is selling the full index kit for 1200, but it's local pickup only, so I would have to driver 3.5 hours to pick it up and then the same distance back
@gloomy crater uhh on the steam client itself it's for $999
My friend wants to sell me his Rift S for $100
@jolly geode is there anything wrong with it
gloomy crater
yeah, but I have to wait another month. Sometimes not having to wait is worth $300
sullen linden
Brand New a rift a is for $400 I think
jolly geode
Yes
gloomy crater
IIRC, the major difference is the controllers and the inside out tracking
jolly geode
Alrighty
harsh niche
Anyone here have a quest and use the link cable? I wanna get the quest 2 and use it with the link cable but some people said the latency and compression makes it look weird
gloomy crater
I use a quest with a 3rd party cable, not the official one. I've played through HLA twice using it, as well as tons of hours of beatsaber, H3VR, and VRChat. I've never used a dedicated PCVR headset before, so I can't really compare. When I use it, there's very little latency when it comes to input, sound, and visuals. As for compression, the image is much better when viewing over link than the standard quest just because of the differences in hardware capability.
As long as you have a computer that can drive it, oculus link is a solid option if you don't mind facebook's account stuff
harsh niche
Oh awesome
gloomy crater
If you're someone who's exclusively used native PCVR headsets before, and are used to the very quick response times and highly detailed graphics, then link will look weird to you. But if you're just getting into it, it's great.
harsh niche
I'm gonna get the quest 2 and the official 15' link cable for $380
I used to have a rift s back in February
I got rid of it because it was just blurry to me and I didn't have enough games
plus I wanted airpod pros lol
this one should solve all those problems because of the higher res and refresh, and my brother has a friend who game shares with him so I can use all his vr games
gloomy crater
Before you go spending $80 on a cord, let me tell you. There are comparable options for cheaper. I use a 3m party link cable, mostly because the 5m one wasn't out at the time that I bought it. The 15m cable is $20 on amazon and is my recommendation for a cheap substitute for the $80 cable
harsh niche
oh yeah I forgot, I watched some review and they said those third party cables don't keep it charged while using it on pc unlike the official one
gloomy crater
Just thought I'd let you know, since the expensive cable isn't strictly necessary unless you want the flexible cable & I guess the brand?
harsh niche
idk something about not enough power going through
gloomy crater
While that is true, it drains slowly. I once spent 9 hours playing half life alyx without it dying
harsh niche
Wow
What if I get a third party cable and the premium headband? the stock one doesn't look very comfortable lol
instead of the brand name cable
also, would there be a difference between USB-C to the headset or USB-A to the headset in terms of latency or charging power? also because I can't plug USB-A directly into the gpu unlike the USB-C
gloomy crater
USB-A will have no difference in latency as long as it's usb3 or greater, but type A will result in a faster power drain. type C will just deliver more power
while we're on the subject, what type C port do you have? Because some ports on boards are known to have issues with oculus link
harsh niche
idk
wait do I need to plug the usb c into the mobo? I have one on my gpu and my motherboard
rtx 2070 btw
and the usb c on the back of the motherboard is 3.1
gloomy crater
the gpu one should work
The type C on my board is 3.1 as well, but for some reason it doesn't recognize my link when I plug it in. I have to plug it into an expansion card to get it to recognize, since my cpu doesn't have a type C port.
harsh niche
hm weird
hopefully it gets better with updates n stuff
so what cable do you recommend? I would like a usb C one just so I can use the port on my GPU but whatever
oh nvm
oculus recommended just a normal usb a - c one so I guess i'm fine with a normal usb a one
gloomy crater
usb A to C will result in a faster drain
gimme a sec. I'll DM you the link to the cord I recommend
harsh niche
okie doke
haughty thistle
VR = Virtual Reality
gentle coral
A ton of channels moved and were renamed yesterday or the day before.
I have been so focused on Quest 2 that I didn't hear about the Facebook AR glasses tell a few hours ago. It looks interesting, but will probably face a lot of problems.
lofty minnow
@haughty thistle I KNOW IM NOT AN IDIOT
noble kestrel
lenovo does make it I think
but you might wanna get a quest 2.
A lil more expensive but its looking good
whole fern
If I go with the S because Im not looking to get a quest because I wouldnt benefit from the extra cost, does the Rift S work with Steam VR? Do I just have to enable the games from unknown sources thing?
noble kestrel
yeah rift s should work with steam vr
whole fern
Is this the Quest?
late cargo
I think so.
The Rift doesn't have Cameras and the Rift S has a camera at the top. I think.
The Rift S model is still different and has a cable.
So I'm sure that's the Quest.
whole fern
I think Im still gonna get it, with the link cable it works with PC yeah?
whole fern
Its the 64GB Quest one and Im watching the LTT video on it
rustic garnet
@whole fern yes just not the new one
whole fern
Soo now I'm not sure because I dont need the wireless experience Im just looking to not be bound by the CV1 Sensors and stuff, sooo Im gonna wait for the Rift S guy's response and LTT mentioned there was lag and stuff
distant spade
Is acer windows mixed reality headset an ok option? Found one for 175 CAD, can probably negotiate a bit and get it for cheaper.
stoic bobcat
The quest 1 is a good device and i have a rift S but think i will retire it ,currently waiting for for my quest 2 to arrive next month and then I picked up an nreal ar headset that should be fun to mess with
upper skiff
Hi everyone ! So, my first attempt to get into be was a OculusGo I bought a year ago. I didn't liked the experience, it felt very limited so I ended up returning it. Now looking at quest2, that looks great ! Do I make the leap of faith with this one ?👀
fringe jay
I'd say try to find a place that you can preview a 6dof headset. It's a very different experience from a 3dof like the Go.
distant spade
@sullen linden I found another one, exact same thing for 150 CAD
For now, I might just use one of those phone vr things, apparently you can connect Nintendo switch controllers and use it that way. don't wanna drop the money if I'm not gonna like it.
gentle coral
@distant spade the phone and nintendo switch method will still leave you with a mostly 3DOF setup (like a oculus go) unless you work very hard, it is completely different then true 6DOF.
Do not compare 3dof to 6dof to heavily as they are completely different in immersion and feel. If you can't test a 6dof headset i would recommend waiting for the quest 2, as it is a big upgrade over the rift, rift s, and first quest, in almost every way. The quality of the experiences on it will be much better then any of the older oculus headsets. And if they upgrade quest link it will be comparable to most PCVR headsets. Also at 299 or 399 it is a great price.
Though you have to be ok with giving Facebook all your data. (Voice, layout of your house, gaming habits, etc).
Most WMR headsets are a decent starting point, but you need a computer that can run it (980Ti should be ok). But what brand of WMR headset matters as they are not all equal in quality (of the released headsets the general quality order i have seen is (HP reverb G1, Samsung Odyssey+, Samsung Odyssey, then the rest are about equal.))
Full 6DOF VR games are unlike anything else, and are an amazing experience if you use it enough to not get motion sick.
If you are in a place that has open indoor businesses, see if there is a local VR arcade that you can try out, as an hour of 6DOF VR should easily give you an idea of if you want to spend money on it.
shut lotus
Anyone have the reverb?
haughty thistle
I'm waiting for my G2 to be delivered. Why ask @shut lotus?
reef kayak
Oculous Go is a bad experience
very limited VR experience
the lack of head tracking of the forward/backward side/side OculusGo lacks is very important
the "realism" factor goes up 200% when the said features are included
vestal bramble
should i get the rift or the rift s
vestal bramble
😳
harsh niche
quest 1
quest 2 😍
this is one of the first games using the quest 2's high res ability because of the better hardware
and wow it looks pretty damn good for a mobile chip
vestal bramble
woah
fringe jay
nice
plush walrus
nice
haughty thistle
Looks like PCVR from 2015 tbh. Mighty impressive, although you have to remember, that you're basically selling your soul to Facebook, by buying that thing
gloomy crater
My sister's already bought a quest 2, and I'm selling my quest to buy an index, and my own mother was like 'I'll buy it off of you. Playing it looks like good exercise' so I guess my mom and sister are selling their souls to facebook
vapid depot
chickenbread you really hate the zucc dont you
noble kestrel
well some people like privacy online?
harsh niche
you're basically selling your soul to Facebook, by buying that thing
nah
I have nothing on my facebook account so idc really
haughty thistle
There's a reason, the EU has so heavy handed privacy laws in place
And just because you have nothing on your FB account, doesn't mean, that Facebook can collect data about you through your VR headset. It's surprising how much your body language says about you...
Lastly: a word of caution about creating fake Facebook accounts:
Oculus/Facebook have stated that if your Facebook account get's terminated for violating the Facebook TOS, all your game purchases will be lost. And creating an FB account with fake details does violate FB TOS, and peoples accounts have been terminated due to it. So be careful out there
Ultimatly, it's your choice what you do with your data, but I personally find it sad, how careless some people handle their personal data
sullen linden
For now, I might just use one of those phone vr things, apparently you can connect Nintendo switch controllers and use it that way. don't wanna drop the money if I'm not gonna like it.
@distant spade That is not how it works at all. I think you've confused phone vr, and Nintendo Labo VR, which are totally separate, and NOT EVEN REMOTELY the same thing as PC VR. The only thing they have in common is that "they are virtual reality". It's like comparing one of those knockoff Gameboys to a Nintendo Switch, not even exaggerating. They're both "hand-held game consoles" but there's a world of difference.
distant spade
Is this video bs then? https://youtu.be/TWJj1yk7DQA
sullen linden
I mean...it kind of works...but only 3DOF (you can turn your head, but you can't actually move), and it looks really janky, pretty much any VR game you would actually want to play wouldn't work with this
distant spade
I literally just wanna play beat saber.
sullen linden
This won't work
haughty thistle
Yeah, for beat Saber you need a 6dof tracked headset and controllers
sullen linden
^^^^^
You need 3D tracked controllers
Dude $150 is really cheap for a VR headset
just get it
haughty thistle
Yeah, you prolly won't find a better deal anytime soon
distant spade
I'm poor tho, got literally nothing to my name.
haughty thistle
Although VR has gotten cheaper over the years, it still involves a lot of manual labor to put together a headset, and thus prices will stay at a certain minimum price, till it can be more automatized. But for now I think the price for new headsets is going to stay about 400$ manufacturing, R&D, profit for the manufacturer and all other price affecting things included
I remember my first headset being a Lenovo Explorer, brand new for 200€. It was a sale though, and the store wanted to get rid of old stock...
harsh niche
And just because you have nothing on your FB account, doesn't mean, that Facebook can collect data about you through your VR headset. It's surprising how much your body language says about you...
bruh
sullen linden
bruh?
plush walrus
bruh
harsh niche
bruh
modern totem
can I do something about Rift S controllers kinda losing tracking when swinging them fast up,down left,right or high? It makes me miss bs ez moves in beat saber
modern totem
well thats individual
vapid depot
i guess
harsh niche
I did but that's because to me the rift s was blurry and kind of ruined the experience
I think since the quest 2 has a better playing experience I could use it longer
- the elite strap
- pc cable thing
reef kayak
VR headset is only as good as the content you got to run on it, assuming you can run it smoothly also, or you will spend tons of time tweaking settings and stuff to scrape as much fps as you can assuming its for PC
sullen linden
i got a rift a while back just havent had the chance to get many games for it
still i enjoy the like 3 ive racked up quite a few hours on all of em
haughty thistle
@harsh niche, then the Quest/Quest 2 is not the right choice for you. The Image on Quest Link is blurry AF, due to the image having to be compressed to fit into USB 2.0 bandwidth. Anything with a proper display link and physical IPD adjustment is going to be a better experience. Trust me
Apparently, Quest Link is even blurrier on the Quest 2 then it is on the OG Quest, due to the higher res screens. But that's something I can't confirm, nor deny. It does makes sense based on how image upscaling works, but since I only have an OG Quest, that's all I can say
harsh niche
someone I know has the quest 1 and a third party cable and it works just fine for them
and I'm going to be using usb c 3.1 btw
straight outta the gpu
haughty thistle
Well, yeah. It works, but like I said, the image is blurry AF, and the Cable doesn't matter
harsh niche
have you tried it before?
haughty thistle
It only uses USB 2 bandwidth. Bot headsets physically do not support DP over USB-C
I tried both a USB 2 and USB 3 cable, and there is no visual difference
harsh niche
when was that? the link is always getting better
from the first time this channel tried it and the second time they said it was a "massive improvement"
haughty thistle
It was like a few weeks ago. With the most recent version out there
harsh niche
and they said nothing about blurriness just delay
haughty thistle
And latly, there have been no significant changes to the Visual quality, and only updates to the latency side of things
Lemme show you
harsh niche
i've seen the visual on how it works if that's what you're getting
haughty thistle
No no. I'm talking about how the image over Quest link looks
verbal axle
can the quest link even work with the virtual link port?
harsh niche
what is virtual link?
haughty thistle
I honestly don't know. Virtual Link is a proprietary standard and as-is only works with a handful of USB hubs I think
The Typ-C port on the 20-Series Nvidia GPUs and Rx 6000-Series AMD cards
haughty thistle
Yeah, I tried taking through the lens pics from my Quest, but both images were even blurrier then what I percieve
Basically, with Quest Link Text is slightly less readable then on a Vive or Rift CV1
Whereas if your run Quest native software, text is just slightly less readable then on the Index (makes sense due to the Index having more Subpixels)
harsh niche
ok how about this: how is it like reading text on quest standalone vs using the link?
haughty thistle
I litterally said that:
Native is somewhere between Index and Vive (although defiantly closer to Index)
And Link is slightly worse then OG Vive (so slightly worse then 1080x1200 OLED per eye res, if that's what you're looking for)
harsh niche
hm okay
I wonder if oculus link will even have support for the full resolution of the quest 2 when it comes out... I hope so
haughty thistle
Prolly not, from what I heard, the blurriness is even worse on there. I mean, if you have an image with resolution X, it looks much better and is more readable on a monitor closer to that resolution, than one with a higher resolution
And Oculus so far has only talked about 90Hz support for Link which is not even supposed to be released right away, but only in-beta a bit after...
harsh niche
that's fine
that should be a high priority though because it's one of the selling points
and if they take a long time i'm sure they would have many many many angry people on their hands
haughty thistle
Well... Oculus kinda wants people to waste their money on their store, not on the PC front
haughty thistle
Yeah...
I mean, if they'd just enable it for all games, what you might end up with is an issue similar to what PCs had all the way back when the first PCs shipped with processors not clocked at 4.something MHz
Many games on closed systems (where they can expect the same HW for all people) have their physics tied to the Framerate, so just boosting that would mean the games run way too fast
harsh niche
yeah
I don't understand why they don't just give developers the tools needed to make it 90hz now so that when it gets released it's working all fine and dandy
haughty thistle
They already have
harsh niche
so why is 90hz not going to be ready on launch? they said only the home area and that's still a beta mode
haughty thistle
Oculus has send out the Quest 2 dev kits to the bigger developers a long time ago, and have released messages in their SDK and whatnot, to makes games not tied to the Framrate
Well, because many devs just don't listen to announcements in SDKs and whatnot
harsh niche
only the big ones? they couldn't just send it out to everyone? all the little guys being left out ;(
haughty thistle
I'm a dev myself and can say this from experience. You have to kinda force them, or else they only budge, once they have to...
harsh niche
odd\
haughty thistle
Well, Oculus has to make sure their stuff didn't get leaked, and smaller devs are more likely to leak stuff then bigger ones
harsh niche
oh yeah that's a good point
well I just want it to happen somewhat soon after I get the headset
anything more than a month or two is not good
haughty thistle
They did say "later this year" for 90Hz Link support, so that's that
This guy explained it a lot better then I did, with the Facebook issue
This is prolly my favourite comment, 'cause it's so true:
Imagine a day when you will be so dependent on internet technology that to be banned or demonitized, virtually means you will never work again, never be allowed online, be unable to use all your technology which you paid for, because those companies have sufficient data, and know everything you've done or not done, said or not said, that THEY deem is in violation of THEIR community standards and terms of service... that it can be shared with government, banks, insurance companies, landlords, employers, etc. Get ready for a CCP style social credit system via technocracy. Coming soon to a Virtual Reality near you.
This is exactly the step Facebook has taken, and Richard who has also commented here saying "lol nah it ain't happening" search social credit China and you will see that Facebook is moving in that direction already. Stephen, you provided a good look into the future if we continue to let companies do what Facebook is doing.
Imagine living in a world like described in the book 1984. Yeah, that's what'll happen, when we let companies or goverments do this kinda data collection on ourselves. This book, 1984, was not meant as an instruction book, but rather to scare us away from such a dystopian future...
harsh niche
like that's ever going to happen
introducing... drumroll please.... daddadadadaddadadadaddadaddad: Laws!
if it gets too out of hand bink bonk new law
agile abyss
quick question can base station be used with WMR
haughty thistle
@harsh niche, governments might not be interested in companies doing this on their own, but people in power seeking more power? They'd do this in a heartbeat if that secures their reign for even longer
China already is employing such things, and if their system proves to be working, who knows what'll hit other countries in the future with a corrupt government?
Russia certainly seems a good candidate, and the US, is certainly not immune with what the president can do...
Although, much more unlikely for the latter
But I don't wanna get all political here. It certainly leaves not a bright future, if people let companies like Facebook dictate their life's, because "they have nothing to hide"
pale orbit
harsh niche
^that’s literally the only article I’ve seen saying it’s not good
weird how it’s just one out of like 12 videos and articles I’ve read
gentle coral
I like the ars technica article, it is focusing on the flaws and what each one means for the user. Not just talk about how the cost and hardware upgrades "could" make it better, but what is guaranteed to be worse.
harsh niche
they say the controllers are so much worse but a lot of people are saying they’re a lot more comfortable to hold because you don’t have to be squeezing your hand so much because it’s bigger
I know on the first gen quest controllers they felt really small so I’m looking forward to that
literally the only things I was worried about have been solved by getting some accessories and talking to people that have used certain features before
haughty thistle
@harsh niche
The difference between what other people and this Ars Technica Article are saying, is that others only talk about the comfort, whereas this article goes into the grippyness of the controllers
Basically, yes, it is more comfortable, but at the cost of how well you can keep it in your hand during fast movement
shadow spruce
Is it stupid to buy Rift S right now?
haughty thistle
If you wanna have a good PCVR experience for cheap, not really. Quest Link just isn't there yet in terms of image Quality, and I honestly don't think it'll ever be there
But keep in mind that to have a good experience with a Rift S, your own IPD needs to be close enough to the fixed IPD of the headset. My suggestion: measure your IPD before purchasing, and see if it falls in my recommended range of 60-67mm
@shadow spruce
shadow spruce
Thank you, @haughty thistle. Yeah, I am going for PCVR experience. Was thinking about Valve Index, but in my country it is 2.5x more expensive than abroad(Dunno how this happened, other electronics are at least "reasonably" more expensive, so I was thinking of a Rift S. Then Quest 2 was announced and it got me thinking
vale junco
Unless you are in a rush it would probably also be good to see what Link ends up being like on the Quest 2
Currently it's only 150 Mbps on the Quest 1, we don't know what the Quest 2 can handle yet
gentle coral
If quest 2 is still usb 2.0 then that will be the limit. I don't think they will put the effort in to check what type of port you are plugged in to. (they wouldn't have the compression artifacts that they do, as usb 3.1 and 3.2 would be fantastic and almost indistinguishable from regular PCVR). They will probably keep limiting it so that people only go through the oculus / facebook store for games, instead of steam.
harsh niche
pretty sure they confirmed it was 3.0
I remember seeing ads on the link cable and usb 3.1
vale junco
Doesn't seem to be specified anywhere for the headset itself
Cable is USB 3.2 gen 1 (10 Gbps)
Price for the cable seems a bit shocking, but good luck finding a similar cable cheaper
harsh niche
found one on amazon it's a type c to type c usb 3.1
vale junco
@harsh niche 5 meters though?
Anything outside 3 meters is past USB spec, which is why they use fiber optic cables to reduce interference etc
Alternative is using active repeater cables, ethernet etc
harsh niche
yeah
idk maybe it has something to do with usb c being able to output more power and being directly plugged into my 2070's usb c port
I was asking the guy about the cable too and he said usb c can keep the quest charged while using it and the normal usb can't so there's that
haughty thistle
It's recommended to use a 3.0 Cable on both OG Quest and Quest 2
As for Quest Link on the Quest 2 I've heard reviews going from about the same readability as on the OG Quest, to similar, but feels blurrier due to the higher screens
So I guess, you'd have to see for yourself...
vale junco
I was asking the guy about the cable too and he said usb c can keep the quest charged while using it and the normal usb can't so there's that
@harsh niche By normal USB you mean Type A?
It differs a lot, but likely it is just a 5v 1A port (5w) while your VirtualLink port provides 15-27w power
harsh niche
yeah type a
the most common one
Oh and thanks I was looking for those numbers and couldn’t find them anywhere
Maybe I just didn’t look hard enough lol
Oh and I just realized
The actual charger that the quest comes with is only 10w so that port being double should be good
harsh niche
Hey I wanted to ask anyone who preordered the quest 1 back in 2019; does it ship on the release day or does it get to your house on that day? or does it ship a day or two earlier so some people can get it on that day
heard some people got the original quest when it came out shipped to their house on release day, just curious how much longer after this month I have to wait
whole fern
Would anyone be able to help me out with some possible trouble shooting?
I've got the Rift S, and my right controller is registering button presses but for some reason the Rift S isn't like finding it
sly lotus
Would go through the setup again and have it pair the controllers again.
acoustic gate
yo would the rtx 3070 be enough for 4k 90hz medium on the hp reverb g2?
on games like half life alyx, boneworks, the upcoming medal of honor etc
rustic garnet
Dude we have no idea if NVIDIA's word is to be trusted
Apparently the speeds they advertised for the 3080 was for RT performance
young marten
They are trying to do the marketing stonks
rustic garnet
Breaking news: corporation is cherry picking the specs of their new product to appear better
sullen linden
Anyone here interested in participating in a display research project? I could use all the help I can get. I've spent the last two+ years designing a closed mesh of robotic polygons capible of mesh morphing. tl;dr is that it functions as a 3D display, as well as a shape shifting robot that can fit in your pocket and grow to the size of a human, preform physical labour and functional tasks such as being a still or walking/moving chair.
I know it sounds out there but it's actually more practical than VR, AR or Holograms for the display of 3D objects, it's impossible to use light to create moving 3D objects, light only works as a display medium in 2D, you need a physical medium to properly animate a 3D display. I came up with the design whilst trying to design and build a hologram, i realized it would be easier and cheaper and safer to simply make a shape shifting robot than a hologram, then months later realized it had the potential to make dymanic robots that could preform nearly any task, and bring robots out of the factories and into the hands of the average consumer.
Here's a simple demo of a manually variable robotic polygon using my old continuum design, I've since improved the design and have spent the last 6 months building my robotics studio, I plan on building a real, automated/robotic closed mesh within the next few months. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrp4NBsxcAQ
whole fern
Would go through the setup again and have it pair the controllers again.
@sly lotus So one of my issues was that I had my Xbox controller plugged in and it was like laying in a way that tipped pressed the thumb stick in a direction lol
rustic garnet
@sullen linden what do you need?
gentle coral
@sullen linden sounds cool, but you are wrong about one thing.
" it's impossible to use light to create moving 3D objects, light only works as a display medium in 2D, you need a physical medium to properly animate a 3D display."
This is wrong, femtosecond lasers can create 3D light grids in free space.
I have seen a few demos behind closed doors, and once energy limitations and cost limitations are solved it is possible to do larger scale 3D holographics. But that is still about 15 years out.
What you are describing akin to a nano scale robotic mesh based on mems (Microelectromechanical systems), is definitely going to be a useful system in the future (pretty much nanobot gray goo). Probably more useful then holographics ever will be.
You will have a lot of issues once you get down to mm scale and smaller but with the way additive nanomanufacturing is going I would estimate it would take about 10 years for a viable product.
If you use a copy of the "nanoengineer" software, there are some nano scale robotics designs that could help you (and you can design the smallest version of your prototype theoretically possible.) I saw a few demos years ago where someone had designed a electric car that is a few thousand atoms in scale.
The software can be found here (with a few gigs of some designs).
https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer
I took a nanotechnology course with one of the creaors of the software and we discussed the timeline of actual development of machines on this scale, and how they would be used.
young marten
sullen linden
@rustic garnet competitors or contributors, I could use animators, anyone good at topology maths and anyone w/ experience in robotics/mechanical engineering/mesh morphing/graphics programming
@gentle coral You're right, I misspoke I'm sorry. My initial conclusion was that it was (whilst nothing is impossible) it's far too impractical to do with light. At the time I came up with the design I had not considered plasma based displays, although I believe my concerns about cost, safety, feasibility and utility/limitations in non physical displays are still valid. I do believe holograms will become not only made but used practically, the only question is what will their limitations be, especially compared to a mesh morphing robot
"akin to a nano scale robotic mesh based on mems" No this is completely wrong I do not like when people think this way (no offense). A shape shifting/mesh morphing robot does not need nanoscopic or even microscopic components to function practically and usefully. A 64 poly mesh with polygons in their closed position having an area of 5x5cm results in an incredibly useful shape shifting robot. The real challenge is breaking the mesh to allow for objects with holes (which is not necessary for most functionality, moreso for display purposes, although it would add a lot of functionality to be able to split one mesh into many automaticly & vice versa), which I've already designed around in future iterations w/ independant and conjoining panels. I could literally build and sell some before christmas this year with the extremely limited means of production I have in my bedroom
Yes over time while/if I scale I'll need to invest into micro and nanoscopic manufacturing processes, but Ive managed to design functional 64 poly models that will be able to be constructed on my Prusa MK3S, and could even be done on the Ender 3. My design also uses a stepper motor multiplexer that only requires 4 steppers to control infinite physical variables
___ end of direct answers ____
I appreciate your advice and am about to look into the software linked, but if I had to manufacture at any lower than a 100 micron tolerance i wouldnt pursue this project in the first place, thats the main reason i picked it over any laser based system, its something i can actually build and not just fantisize about
I am still sceptical of any light/plasma displays ability to be safe, but even if the hologram is perfected it will (probably) never be able to interact with its enviroment in the same way a mesh morphing robot could
My current design uses what I call reverse continuums, which switches traditional tensile actuators with compressive ones, it allows a multi segment continuum to be driven simply whilst maintaining its ability to contract and expand. Since you only need 4-12 motors (you can stack the drivers for faster speed, basicly multithreading the multiplexer), you can use quite large and power hungry steppers for the overall size of the mesh. The driver fits inside the center of the mesh so you don't need to minaturize it into the wall/polys itself, but later more micro/nanoscopic versions, and especially the mesh breaking version will need to be built in.
I've been meaning to read "There's Plenty of Room at the Bottom" for a long time now, I'm familiar with basic nanomanufacturing technologies and even have a concept for my own involving the growth of bulk custom attomic lattices via custom crystal seeds. You just need to fab the tiny seed then apply pressure and heat and provide it the elements it needs and it will grow, its how they make peizoelectric clock crystals.Turns out it's not an original idea but I think it has potential.
sullen linden
Is the oculus reverb a good next vr upgrade?
and would a rtx 3070 work well with it?
I know we don't have the card yet
But the specs are out so we kinda know how it will perform
i have a feeling ill get that answer
as a cop out
Also I didnt sell my soul yet to facebook I think
actually at this point maybe?
I don't care at this point
Mark zucherburg is just some wimpy loser
I can dunk his ass if he decides to dox me
harsh niche
reverb is hp...
gentle coral
@sullen linden I was unsure of the scale you were thinking of for your system since you said it could fit in a pocket and expand to a great size. I agree that it doesn't need to be nano or micro scale to be useful, and based on your design video I definitely think it will work at most scale values (from microns to meters). I was just trying to understand what you are trying to build by comparing it to current tech, as the description you gave did not explain it in a way I could easily understand (which happens a lot in new tech, as creative ideas are generally hard to explain using current conventional descriptions).
This type of tech could definitely help with controller and headset designs for VR / AR, as those will definitely need to be more robotically controlled in form in the future. This would be great for having controllers that morph their shape to what you are using in a game or app, and if the headset could morph to better fit a persons head this would make a big difference in comport and quality of VR or AR headsets.
Keep working on it, that type of tech can make a big impact in a lot of ways if done correctly.
@sullen linden a 3070 should be able to run a HP reverb G2. I will be running my Reverb G2 from a 1070 max Q and will probably just barely be able to play a few well optimized games until I get a 3090.
sullen linden
90hz 4k? @gentle coral
gentle coral
@sullen linden yes, though it has to be a well optimized game which most VR games are bat at, but I have tested increasing render resolution in a few games to be similar and they do ok on medium settings which would still be clearer then high on a low res VR headset. I optimize each of my games separately so I am ok with specific tradeoff's. Also I will only get to use the 3090 a bit of time as it would be shared until I can afford a 3090 myself of get a grant for the VR projects I am working on.
lofty minnow
Im thinking of selling my valve index... yes already...
Because I FUCKING HATE, And I really mean it, I hate god rays and the screen door effect.
Can anyone assure me that they are completely gone on the hp reverb g2? or are they just "slightly" or "greatly" reduced.
Im gonna miss finger tracking, not gonna miss the resolution , screen door and god rays when watching movies on big screen tho
dusk sigil
should i sell my psvr for the new quest?
plush walrus
is that your QUESTion
haughty thistle
@lofty minnow Considering that the Reverb G2 will be using Lenses designed by Valve, they probably will be similar in terms of God-Rays/Internal Reflections. But trust me, it's a lot better on the Index then on other "Gen1" headsets like the Vive or Rift CV1. (from what I heard HTC is still using the same lenses on the Cosmos, so there's that)
About the SDE on the Index: It's barely noticeable. If you think it's bad there, then you haven't tried an OLED headset with the same or lower resolution. It's much more noticeable there. But from what I heard, the SDE on the Reverb G2 is basically non-existent. It's still there if you're looking for it, so that's that.
lofty minnow
i dont notice sde in games like half life etc
BUT BEAT SABER
dude
i see every pixel.
haughty thistle
But keep in mind, that the higher resolution of the G2 comes at the cost of significantly higher performance requirement. You can use it with upscaling, but that's going to make the image look soft and blurry, kinda like how it is with Quest Link
I have no Idea what you're talking about. Especially in Beat Saber I don't notice any SDE on the Index
There is a setting in SteamVR, that allows you to adjust something about the Pixel-Column stuff. It's usually a thing that is set in stone by the Display controller, but Valve allows you to adjust it, as with some units, this value might need to be adjusted to fix a noticeable SDE during head movement
Maybe that#s the problem you're facing @lofty minnow
(Sorry for pinging the wrong person ^^" )
lofty minnow
@haughty thistle im getting the rtx 2070
also ive adjusted my index its none of that stuff
haughty thistle
You sure you've adjusted this? (sorry for the German, it's one of the Pink options further down in the Video Settings menu)
haughty thistle
The English name is something like "column correction". I had to look this up myself, but it seems to be what you're looking for. The problem you're facing in Beat Saber is not SDE, but it's Pixel inversion, and it's an artifact of LCDs being used in a low pixel persistence way
Here's a reddit thread from a while ago discussing this topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/ep6ybc/how_bad_is_pixel_inversion_in_index/
My old Gaming monitor actually had a Pixel inversion issue when running at low FPS in GSync mode. It's quite distracting once you see it, and you can't really unsee it, it looks like colored lines going down the screens flickering in and out of place. I haven't had this issue on my Index since Valve has introduced the automatic column correction. But I heard that some people still have issue with it, which is why there's the fine adjustment still
agile abyss
can the vive cosmos controller tracking issues be fixed with lighthouses?
just wondering since I saw an article about it
haughty thistle
Nope. The Vive Cosmos controllers can only be tracked through the integrated cameras on the Cosmos. You could however switch to a different controller that is Lighthouse Tracked like the Index Controllers
gentle coral
@agile abyss
Depends on the type of cosmos (there are a lot of various models). One of them has lighthouse support. But you will still need the index controllers as the included cosmos controllers only track via the cosmos inside out cameras.
agile abyss
ok thanks for the info
man I really wish the vive cosmos was viable and the price was better
haughty thistle
The HP Reverb G2 (which has yet to be shipped) is an overall better headset, and is 100$ cheaper then the regular Cosmos
sullen linden
does steam protect me
like my information
I dont use oculus store for games
i use steam
left coral
Erm, if you mean does steam directly require you to login to Facebook, the answer is no. No idea how that's gonna work when Oculus requires a FB account to sign in though.
sand swan
Don't you need an account to even set up the headset in the first place? Steam just opens the oculus app from what I remember, so no matter what oculus hardware you'd still need a dumb facebook account even if you use exclusively steam for the games
harsh niche
I don’t know honestly, I know when setting up in the app on your phone you need to log in to Facebook but jsk what happens if you just plug it in to your pc
maiden trench
no guys get the quest 2
harsh niche
i am
plush walrus
i am
gray aurora
i am
rustic garnet
I'm not
real flicker
nah man PS VR lmao
haughty thistle
It's been like this with the OG Quest, and it will be the same for the Quest 2:
You need to set it up through the Mobile App (which will require a Facebook account for the Quest 2), before you can do anything with it. Plugging it into your PC will do nothing, if it's not set up
Plus: The Oculus Desktop app requires you to log in as well, so if that's not the case, then Quest Link won't work either
agile abyss
@haughty thistle
The HP Reverb G2 is the at the top of my list currently
the next one down would be the
Reverb G1/Samsung Odyssey+
after that would be the Original Vive
haughty thistle
To be totally honest, the Reverb G1 wasn't all that great. I'd say, the next one down from the G2 would the Samsung Odyssey+
agile abyss
hmm should I just get the samsung Odyssey and just wait to upgrade to either the hp reverb g2 or valve index
though I would prefer the G2 since the tracking should be better especially since it has 4 cameras vs 2
haughty thistle
Yeah, G1. My phone autocorrected
Fixed that message
Yeah, the G2 is a really great headset, and with it, you prolly only want to upgrade the controllers once you get there
@agile abyss
Ultimately, I can't decide for you what you should do, but if you can wait a bit longer, I'd say go directly for the G2
agile abyss
I am not in a rush and I feel the g2 would be my best choice overall and I wouldn't needing to upgrade for awhile
only really worried about avability
lofty minnow
only gonna sell it if i dont have wnough money for the 3070
i need the 3070! i wanna play cp77 at full res
lofty minnow
and if i sell the index and get the 3070 ill have money left for the g2, i alr have all the money for the 3070 but idk the taxes yet so yeeee
@rustic garnet yea thats recommended
i wanna play it at 1440p
rustic garnet
Uh what do you have
haughty thistle
@rustic garnet Yeah, you can use the Index Controllers with any 6 DoF headset in SteamVR, as long as you also set up SteamVR Lighthouses
A bunch of people are actually doing this already with other headsets, as availability of Index HW is still a bit limited
rustic garnet
Yeah that's really nice
gloomy crater
what I just experienced is the saddest thing to happen to me all month
Oculus link has given me a lot of issues because of my PC
if any issues happen while playing HLA, or VRChat, I can just fix it and then keep playing. But playing beatsaber, if something happens mid song, I'M FUCKED
harsh niche
uh oh
gloomy crater
last month, I learned that the stupid menu button on the right touch controller brings up a menu that doesn't pause the game you're playing when you press it. That's how I failed out of a song I was playing in which I had broken my previous personal best. Was doing great, accidentally pressed the button, menu came up, can't see the notes, failed out of a really good run on the hardest song in my roster
THIS TIME
I'm playing the exact same song. My finger is well clear of the button. beat my personal best AGAIN. and then halfway through the song, my screen goes black, and I'm taken back to the oculus quest home room and it says my PC was disconnected. Across the room, I can hear the audio for the song still coming out of my headphones and then the song failed sound
I can't wait until october 17th, when I'll hopefully finally be able to wash my hands of this mess and order my index finally
harsh niche
so just beat saber is randomly disconnecting you?
gloomy crater
as far as I can tell, these are quest 1 specific issues, because the controllers have less space for your thumb, and the internal connectivity for the link is worse
harsh niche
as far as I can tell, these are quest 1 specific issues, because the controllers have less space for your thumb, and the internal connectivity for the link is worse
thank you
I was worried
gloomy crater
no. This happens maybe once a month regardless of games. It's a problem with my PC, not the quest
harsh niche
ohh ok
gloomy crater
Whenever my monitor turns off, it causes some sort of status update that for some reason causes my link to disconnect
gloomy crater
So I either have to tell it to never turn off my monitor (which would ruin it, as I accidentally leave it running a lot and if it didn't turn off after a certain amount of time, it would burn the image into the screen bc it's one of those old tv's) or start turning off my monitor before playing VR
harsh niche
I wanted to turn off my monitor so nothing was showing and whenever I did that the headset would either go black, or just exit back to the home menu
unkempt wing
selling HTC vive for 450 euro, used 3/4 times, good as new with original box,base station and all the other original equipment. ( censors) , shipping from Netherlands, DM me.
haughty thistle
Yeah, my experience with the Oculus PC app is... rather... meh.
The Oculus Dashboard is really nice, and I'd wish that the SteamVR dashboard was just nearly as good, but other then that, it's Usable at best. Just slight instability on the USB connection already makes it disconnect from SteamVR, and because SteamVR has to restart for every change on the Headset setup (a disconnect alone is enough to trigger this) I had to completely close everything to get back into VR.
WMR at least "simulates" the headset still being connected to SteamVR, when the headset disconnects, but Oculus is like "F* you and whatever you were doing, SteamVR go bye bye. Should've payed us instead."
The only reason I'm still hanging onto my Quest is so in case my Index decides to stop working, while I'm waiting for my Reverb G2, I still have a backup and can continue playing. Really Oculus has been more then frustrating to me (not just with the Quest, the Rift S was a lot better, but it just didn't like any of my 3.0 Ports and I had to use my single 3.1 port for this)
gloomy crater
My board was one that had a USBC port on it, but was unable to do video output, just data transfer. So I had to buy a PCIe USB expansion card that had a USBC port on it to be able to play with link
haughty thistle
Quest Link will not use the Display Port on the Typ-C connector
It compresses the image on your CPU, and then sends the compressed image over USB Data, which is why Typ-C to Typ-A cables work with Quest Link just as well as a Typ-C to Typ-C cable
harsh niche
but it doesn't keep it charged and if you're taking it around to your friend's houses that could be a problem
wind pivot
my oculus quest isnt charging help
harsh niche
try a different usb c cable
try a different charging brick
try a different wall plug
try factory resetting the quest
wind pivot
im using my nintendo charger and that seems to work when my vr is dead dead
haughty thistle
@wind pivot The Switch Charger has a bunch of proprietary stuff going on with it, and I'd not recommend anyone using it for anything else but the Switch. The Oculus Quest comes with a dedicated charger, did you try that one?
And @harsh niche about the Cable charging problem: there are extension cords that have dedicated power-in connectors for the extenders. Those power-in plugs usually supply the actual USB-Out connector also with power, so you could run a second cable, and let that one go into a high-power USB charger, if you want
I tried it with mine, and it actually works. Other then that, the Quest discharges so slowly over a USB Typ-A cable in Link mode, really you will probably never run into any problems. I had my Quest charged up to 100% and then played like 4-5h worth of PCVR on my makeshift Quest Link cable, and the Quest only discharged to 75% over the entire playtime
vapid depot
does link use usb3 or video over usb c on quest 2?
haughty thistle
It still only uses USB 2.0, although a USB 3.0 Link is recommended for stability reasons
vapid depot
:(
haughty thistle
Well... for 90Hz on the Quest 2 you'd probably need USB 3.0, but Quest Link on the OG Quest uses only 2.0 speed, and from what I've heard, the 72Hz Quest Link on the Quest 2 is completely identical in transmitted resolution, so still just USB 2.0 speed required
haughty thistle
Compression. And to be totally honest, it's quite visible. Although many people like to deny that
They compress the color from 8bit to 6bit per color, which is most noticeable on slight gradients as it makes them look very jagged. Other then that, the image is quite soft and the further you get to the edge of your FOV, the image get's less and less detailed
haughty thistle
They used to have that as a requirement, but I guess they had to compress it so heavily to reduce latency (as I found out, it's quicker to encode something at a low bitrate then it is to encode something on a higher bitrate) and then they might as well unlock USB 2.0 as well
wind pivot
@wind pivot The Switch Charger has a bunch of proprietary stuff going on with it, and I'd not recommend anyone using it for anything else but the Switch. The Oculus Quest comes with a dedicated charger, did you try that one?
@haughty thistle well its either the cable or my outlets
gray reef
Personally, I’ve hardly noticed compression with Link, aside from colors being a bit dull, I don’t really notice a whole lot being lost
harsh niche
I wonder if colors would be better on the quest 2
over link anyways the lcd I would imagine would make the colors worse
gentle coral
For anyone who says they barely notice the compression, they need to mention in comparison to what headset they have used before it. Saying you don't see compression when you have nothing to compare it to is not useful to other people trying to learn about the headsets.
You can't notice a difference in quality if you have only seen one quality setting.
In car terms it would be like saying "A prius is as fast as a Ferrari if you have never seen a Ferrari go fast".
harsh niche
i used the rift s before but the res of the quest 2 is so much higher I think it might look the same as the rift at worst
drowsy marsh
thinking of buying a Oculus Quest but how does a game take up i storage in those
are we taking like 4 games and that it for 64 gb model or 8 games or whats the deal
harsh niche
most games are like 2gb
so you should be able to fit a fair amount on there
and if you have the sideload quest thing you could possible download games faster if you keep them on your pc but idk
gentle coral
Depends on if you mod the games, my friend could only fit 5 games as you do not want to completely fill the quest or like any computer it gets a lot slower.
I think 256 would be much better as the quest 2 games are likely going to be bigger.
harsh niche
what do you mean "mod the games"
mod them to do what? add content or have multiplayer or what
gray reef
For anyone who says they barely notice the compression, they need to mention in comparison to what headset they have used before it. Saying you don't see compression when you have nothing to compare it to is not useful to other people trying to learn about the headsets.
You can't notice a difference in quality if you have only seen one quality setting.
In car terms it would be like saying "A prius is as fast as a Ferrari if you have never seen a Ferrari go fast".
@gentle coral
HTC Vive (although only for an hour at a VRcade)
And a friend’s Rift S
what do you mean "mod the games"
@harsh niche
Probably custom beat saber levels/mods
harsh niche
really? I thought beat saber levels are only like 10mb
gray reef
@harsh niche It depends on the level, plus the mods that let you play the levels are usually pretty big (at least I think lol)
harsh niche
hm interesting
sullen linden
I think that VR is ok
harsh niche
ok
carmine wharf
On my oculus quest with a usb 3.0 cable the compression is pretty awful
Id rather run it at a lower framerate instead of this god awful compression it has
Orrr a slightly lower resolution
Id also like to point out I noticed the compression artifacts even though I've never used any other headsets before
harsh niche
weird because I hear other people saying it looks flawless and they can't tell the difference between that and a normal pcvr headset
carmine wharf
For me when I played through half life alyx everything even slightly dark was compressed to hell
Mightve been the oled, but I doubt it since I never noticed it in any other games running native on the quest
gray reef
@carmine wharf I frequently play FNaF Help Wanted using Oculus Link, and I maintain that it is still a great experience, worse than a dedicated PC VR headset, but not by a lot
carmine wharf
Mines easily playable
The compression isnt... that bad
I'm going for an index next year anyway, the quest is just super uncomfortable and I dont like what facebook is doing to them. Ditching before it gets too bad
harsh niche
I wish I could get an index but it's just way too expensive for me
oblique spruce
I wish I could get any type of vr but I'm too poor, maybe in a few years when I'm making dat cash
rustic garnet
You can get the lower end WMR stuff for pretty cheap right?
Or did those get discontinued
harsh niche
you can get those on ebay for sure
carmine wharf
I can't really afford an index either, I'm just planning on saving up over the next 5 or 6 months
haughty thistle
To be totally honest:
Unless you need the higher refreshrate to feel comfortable in VR, or plan on getting FBT anytime soon, other Headsets are probably a better choice. The HP Reverb G2 with it's 699$ price tag seems like a really good option. That is, if you're willing to save up for it
And I do have to agree on GoogolPlexion, the compression on Quest Link is much more noticeable in darker areas, then it is in brighter ones. But that is mostly due to how the human eye perceives light...
carmine wharf
To be totally honest:
Unless you need the higher refreshrate to feel comfortable in VR, or plan on getting FBT anytime soon, other Headsets are probably a better choice. The HP Reverb G2 with it's 699$ price tag seems like a really good option. That is, if you're willing to save up for it
@haughty thistle there are 3 reasons i want the valve index. the high refresh rate, the controllers, and the compatibility with future headsets, so if i ever go out and buy an index 2 or something i only need the headset itself, not base stations and controllers
i am comfortable with the 72hz of the quest but id like to at least try 90 and 120, also what is fbt?
haughty thistle
Fullbody Tracking. So far only 2 games I know of support it natively: VRChat and Blade & Sourcery
But yeah, the Controllers are another big selling Point of the Index
carmine wharf
see, i could get a reverb, but id have to get base stations and index controllers anyway
also yeah i dont need full body tracking
i prefer lighthouse tracking anyway its more accurate and you can do stuff behind you
haughty thistle
FBT is something many daily VRC players either crave or can't play without. But if you rarely play VRC at all, and don't think of streaming with a Virtual Avatar (like Linus has shown in one of his videos), then it's just expensive and unnecessary...
carmine wharf
yeah im not going to spend $300 on trackers, especially since i 1. dont play vr chat. and 2. dont have a pc powerful enough to stream and do vr at the same time
haughty thistle
I gotta be totally honest with you here:
The accuracy between WMR, Oculus Insight and SteamVR Lighthouse tracking is pretty comparable, although obviously Lighthouse Tracking is the most accurate, it's not a huge difference (you really need to see them side-by-side to tell a difference imo)
The bigger part about Lighthouse Tracking is the Tracking Volume (aka the space from the perspective of the user which can be tracked). In this regard there's a stark difference between the Tracking systems
carmine wharf
yeah
i notice oculus tracking glitches out a lot in my room, probably just a defective headset or something
really only happens when using link but sometimes happens mid game and makes me really sick
haughty thistle
Yeah, for Inside-Out Tracking you need a room with lots of detail (aka lots of furniture standing around)
If your have just a single wall with nothing on it in your Playspace, and nothing infront of that wall either, then there's a good chance tracking will glitch out
carmine wharf
i have a TON of stuff around my room
really my ceiling has the least detail but i like never look up in vr
haughty thistle
Huh...
That should not cause any problems, as the Oculus Tracking system doesn't solely rely on front facing cameras for tracking
Then I guess it could be a faulty unit, yeah...
carmine wharf
im gonna either keep it until it requires a facebook account then throw it away or ill sell it when i get my index
id like to sell it so i can buy a galaxy fold but whatever
haughty thistle
As long as you have an Oculus account, you can continue use it for existing headsets (not the Quest 2) until Jan 2023
And even then, you can continue using it, you just can't buy any new Software
(and potentailly not use any Multiplayer either)
worldly yacht
that’s pretty stupid how they did that, i just wanna play VR. i mean i paid for oculus, also their cable is literal trash.
probably saving for an index
haughty thistle
It's a 2 year buffer. That's well outside any legal required guarantee, so no matter what, you're pretty much stuck with it
worldly yacht
whatever, it’s not that bad. what do you mean i’m stuck with it tho? i could literally through it into the garbage rn but i won’t
haughty thistle
What I mean with "stuck with" is that most likely you won't have any legal means in getting your money back other then selling it
worldly yacht
that’s fine, i don’t mind that part.
ofc it’s expensive but maybe i’ll sell it online or something
carmine wharf
minecraft on whos desktop..?
gloomy crater
sigh I've once again broadcast my stupidity. They moved the vr channel. This is not in fact TC1. Unbeknownst to me
I'm waiting on an update on my index order
It still just says 8 weeks. Been like that since I clicked order, and I'm estimating I'll be able to order it around halfway through next month
carmine wharf
im guessing index orders will be long up until after christmas at this point
summer hedge
Is there any reason, whatsoever, to upgrade from a CV1 to the quest 2?
harsh niche
higher res inside out tracking supposedly better controllers
summer hedge
Mmm, not worth it for me then I guess. Just a more refined experience than a full generation change. Also, I tried inside out tracking and I hated it versus 3 camera setup
carmine wharf
is there a difference between how the vive tracks vs how the cv1 tracks
the oculus light houses seem much different. are they cameras inside instead of light emitters?
haughty thistle
That's because the CV1 base stations are not lighthouses. They are IR cameras that track IR-LEDs on the CV1 headset and controllers
That's also why the CV1 tracking system is so much more limited in space then the Lighthouse tracking system, and also requires each base station to have a USB 3 connection to your PC
carmine wharf
so, does it have any advantages (besides letting facebook spy on your through your light houses)
also why are they called light houses if they are just ir cameras
haughty thistle
Honestly, any Outside-In tracking system is superior to Inside-Out until they figure out some way of mitigating the minimum distance that has been my biggest gripe about Inside-Out so far...
summer hedge
Think of it like active tracking where Index is searching for the controller, versus passive tracking where the CV1 controller is looking for the camera. CV1 therefore also reliant on gyrometres to keep full orientation.
haughty thistle
The Wii Remote tracking is actually more similar to the Lighthouse tracking, as in the Sensor bar only has a few LEDs inside
carmine wharf
wii remote tracking is light house tracking
and oculus tracking is what we thought wii remote tracking was as kids
haughty thistle
Yep
carmine wharf
so is there any specific reason oculus went with that system instead of ir emitters?
summer hedge
Cheaper
carmine wharf
probably lasts longer since it has no moving parts
summer hedge
CV1 was like 500 USD versus the 800 or whatever for the Vive on release
haughty thistle
The CV1 method is quite literally the Brute-Force method of tracking something Outside-In: By having a camera look for the Object in your room. The SteamVR lighthouse tracking system is actually very clever as it uses a lot of complicated math to figure out the position of a device, based on how a bunch of IR sensors on it tracked
carmine wharf
did they use it for price, longevity, or does valve just have patents on inside out tracking
haughty thistle
The WiiMote btw. uses an IR camera to detect the IR-LEDs of the sensor bar. So it's similar, but not exactly the same
It's not that the CV1 system is cheaper to manufacturer
carmine wharf
why are they called inside out and outside in? im super confused by the names
haughty thistle
It's a lot simpler in development, and construction, as not a whole lot of math is involved...
If a Tracking system relies on an external active component (like the SteamVR lighthouses or CV1 Cameras) it's called Outside-In
If the Tracking System uses built-in sensors to detect the position of the headset based on passive things in the Room, it's called Inside-Out
carmine wharf
so wait
the oculus has cameras on it that search for the light houses? or the light houses have cameras that search for ir on the headset
i am honestly soo confused rn
so the quest and rift s use inside out?
haughty thistle
The Rift CV1 uses an Outside-In methode, where you place cameras in the Room to track IR LEDs on your headset and the controllers
The Quest, Rift S and Quest 2 use an Inside-Out method where there are cameras on the headset to track the position based on objects placed in your room
haughty thistle
Outside-In has better accuracy, and as long as your devices are inside your playspace, they should be able to be tracked
Inside-Out is easier to set up (because you don't have to place anything specific in your room)
carmine wharf
1 disadvantage to oculus system, you need cables to your pc. 2 advantages, no moving parts in the stations so longer life probably, and possibly less computation demand?
inside out probably has more range than outside in
haughty thistle
Eh...
Officially yes
But in Software at least Oculus has limited the maximum playspace size
carmine wharf
well i mean, theoretically you could just track it forever, but the computation for that goes up exponentially i believe
haughty thistle
The Problem with that is, that the Cameras on an Inside-Out headset need detail in your room to track the headset. So the playspace can't be too large
carmine wharf
yeahh
haughty thistle
Also, that's another benefit of an Outside-In system: You can use them in absolute darkness
carmine wharf
you can????
wow ok imma do that lmao
cuz pitch black is much less distracting while in vr than being able to see your desk and shit
haughty thistle
I sometimes like to just turn off my lights while playing with my Index
Yeah, that's why I do it xD
carmine wharf
so how does the quest track its controllers with ir if when you have passthrough enabled, you cant see any ir from the controllers
haughty thistle
You can't do that with an Inside-Out tracked headset (well, you can strap an IR-Flashlight to your headset, but I heard it makes tracking a lot worse, so don't try that)
carmine wharf
or.. a regular flashlight?
haughty thistle
The cameras on Inside-Out tracked headsets usually use IR light to track, so you want as much as possible of that
haughty thistle
I honestly don't know how Oculus still tracks the Controllers in passthrough mode. I have 2 guesses:
- They run the cameras at 60Hz, but only flash the controllers LEDs every second frame, and hide the frames in which the LEDs are visible to the user
- They use their fancy software hide black out the LEDs in the passthrough image
carmine wharf
orr... is it possible they disable the ir on the controllers when in passthrough mode?
no
because passthrough works for guardian setup
im dumb sorry carry on
pretty sure they run the tracking at higher than 60fps
haughty thistle
Nope, the cameras are only running at 60 fps
carmine wharf
hm
i dont think its option 1
option 2 seems hard but is probably what they do
because the controllers definitley track at 60fps at least
or... is it their fancy ai that makes it seem like they do
haughty thistle
Well, that's Option 2 really
Btw. for those looking to get a Quest 2 for PCVR: Tyler Wood put out another video on comparing the OG Quest Link, Quest 2 Link and the Rift S and well... Just as I suspected, the image looks much softer on the Quest 2, because it needs to be scaled up higher
But look for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENW6hwxIY0M
carmine wharf
if i was ok with facebook, id switch to a rift s
i hate the strap of the quest
however the index i reallly love the controllers and the strap looks much more comfortable
haughty thistle
Possibly most readable is Text on the Rift S, so if you can use the Rift S, it's probably still going to be better for PCVR then the Quest 2
Yeah, the Index is really comfortable, and actually the most comfortable Quest facial interface is actually the on from the Index xD
carmine wharf
lol nice
im probably gonna buy at least 1 extra facial interface, just because yeah those things get dirty af over time
haughty thistle
You can only buy the Index faceplates in sets of 2
haughty thistle
I'm just going to say, since the Index faceplates are not meant for the Quest, you'll need to jerry-rig some solution to prevent lightbleed from the top
This is what I did: (don#t mind my horrible hair that day, I've since been to the barber)
carmine wharf
that looks disgusting but probably comfy af lmao
gloomy crater
I'm kinda annoyed I have to buy a whole other set of prescription lenses for my index after having already paid almost $100 for my quest lenses, which are useless now since I'm selling it
carmine wharf
i just deal with glasses in vr
haughty thistle
carmine wharf
not worth it for me to get prescription lenses
haughty thistle
Almost 100$?
What kind of crazy prescription you need?
carmine wharf
where would i even buy perscriptions lenses for the index/quest
haughty thistle
Actually if you use the Index, it might be worth investigating to maximize FOV. I'm extremely happy with my VR Optician lenses
summer hedge
I bought an 80 quid prescription thing for the rift
Absolute shit. Lenses so thin they fogged up hard. Just buy a better faceplate insert to allow for glasses.
haughty thistle
Either here: https://vroptician.com/
Or here: https://widmovr.com/
carmine wharf
Actually if you use the Index, it might be worth investigating to maximize FOV. I'm extremely happy with my VR Optician lenses
@haughty thistle the fov cant be any worse than the quest with default glasses interface can it?
haughty thistle
Yeah, Widmo Lenses are quite $hitty quality, and are the same price as the ones from VRO
summer hedge
Yup
I broke the bridge on mine just cleaning them once
Had to superglue them into the foam face insert
gloomy crater
WidmoVR. Lenses are $70. Blue light filtering so I don't destroy my eyes with said lenses is an extra $24. Plus shipping, that's over $100
haughty thistle
I can highly recommend the lenses from VRO, but they are a bit thicker. So with these it depends on your face shape, whether it's actually worth it
haughty thistle
There have been multiple medical studies that have shown that the harmful blue light frequencies are mostly in the ultra-violet range which LEDs can hardly reproduce. It's basically money thrown out the window on a VR headset
summer hedge
Only issue is lightbleed around the nose on the AMVR stuff
gloomy crater
I'd be too scared of scratching the shit out of my HMD lenses to wear glasses in VR
carmine wharf
id get blue light for night and regular for day, but thats over $150
There have been multiple medical studies that have shown that the harmful blue light frequencies are mostly in the ultra-violet range which LEDs can hardly reproduce. It's basically money thrown out the window on a VR headset
@haughty thistle blue light can be harmful? i thought it just threw off the sleep wake cycle
summer hedge
If you have spare glasses, you can also unscrew the arms (are they called that, the side bits on your ears lol) and then use something to mount and hold them in the headset like a high quality bluetac
gloomy crater
Plus I can't imagine that it would be very comfortable, considering how uncomfortable my glasses become when wearing just normal headphones
haughty thistle
I've had a nice long talk with my optician about this stuff, and he told me, for any sort of Computer equipment, blue-light filtering glasses that do not have a visible yellow tint, are basically worthless, as those only filter blues in the ultra-violet range
gloomy crater
So yeah, apparently I'm gonna be spending over $1100 on my index since tax and new lenses are gonna be so much
summer hedge
Blue light filter on the human end is crap. Better off finding software to tint the actual display.
carmine wharf
yeah
i dont want to scratch my index lenses, so like whats the best way to not be blind in vr while also not spending a ton of money
carmine wharf
yeah my eyes are apparently still changing or something idk
summer hedge
Ehh, only thing that changes for me is the axis or rotation or whatever, which I believe would be fixed by laser surgery anyway
gloomy crater
My sister has made fun of me for my poor eyesight for years. Yesterday she had an eye appointment. Guess who's also gonna have to invest in lenses for VR now
summer hedge
If you're comfortable with contact lenses, that's a semi-decent solution
haughty thistle
Yeah, really if you need prescription lenses in VR, and don't want to scratch your headset lenses, your best option are prescription insert lenses. You could also Pleno lenses, but then you'd have to find a pair of glasses that still fit under (kinda like wearing in-ear headphones underneath a pair of over-ear headphones)
carmine wharf
yeah my eyes are apparently still changing or something idk
@carmine wharf another reason i dont want to spend $100 on vr lenses. they would change like every year cuz my perscription changes a bit every year
gloomy crater
I have the luxury of contact lenses, but if I put in a set every time I wanted to play VR, it would cost a fortune. More than the initial investment in lenses
haughty thistle
Same
summer hedge
Really? In the UK I can get 120 lenses for like 30 pounds/$40
Fair enough. I don't do contact lenses either personally. Very dry eyes.
gloomy crater
They're just not comfortable for me. They just... feel weird. But i'll wear them if they're my only option
Plus putting them in and taking them out is a pain
haughty thistle
Those 70$ plus shipping is a one-off payment for your VR headset. Not a running cost like contact lenses
summer hedge
I mean I only play VR like 30 times a year anyway cause of my health conditions
carmine wharf
Those 70$ plus shipping is a one-off payment for your VR headset. Not a running cost like contact lenses
@haughty thistle not for me since like i said, my perscription changes a bit over the course of a year
haughty thistle
Well crap... guess I gotta use my G2 with glasses then -.-
I just saw this and was starting to get my hopes up, but I guess not then 
haughty thistle
Because... I hoard them sweats intensively
carmine wharf
lol nice
sullen linden
Rich
carmine wharf
eh
you dont have to be rich to be able to save up for expensive things over a while
you just have to not have any demons (aka kids)
haughty thistle
I'm just budgeting differently. Monetary wise I'm actually pretty average for a German
carmine wharf
nice lol
its like how people can afford a $1500 phone every year
just save up over a year lol
is the index full vr kit the same price for every currency or is it regional pricing i wonder
haughty thistle
I for example, just don't invest much into my phone. I'm still rocking my OP6T which I bought in a sale right after the OP7 announcement
haughty thistle
500€ for a used-to-be flagship. I probably wouldn't invest much more. Unless my current phone just goes bye bye
carmine wharf
ive looked into oneplus, sadly my carrier doesnt support it since its gsm only
carmine wharf
stupid us carriers and their gsm vs cdma, and preinstalling garbage apps, and locking bootloaders :(
summer hedge
Gotta say, paying 1k in the age of chinese flagships kind of boggles my mind
I got a Xiaomi K30 for 300 USD basically, flashed it with an EU rom, 120hz display and a semi-decent camera
Can get a high end Oppo for like 500-600 USD
And Apple used to be worthwhile. Even the Iphone 8 was actually worth the price, but now they've gone fullblown into the dumb Prosumer tier stuff and charge you the price of a nice 2nd hand car for a phone you'll replace in a year or 2
gloomy crater
I wish I could go back in time and tell myself to click order on the valve index over the summer, so that it would be ready to order when I got the money, and not two months after that
I'm planning on having my index for PCVR and a quest 2 for trips to places I can't bring my PC, but apparently despite 8 weeks from clicking order coming out to the 17th of october, I've been told I might not get my index until January
meanwhile scalpers are selling them for $3000
haughty thistle
Scalpers are the scum of humanity
If nobody buys their stuff, then they end up having payed thousands of dollars, and loose everything
gloomy crater
So I'm in a unique situation at the moment
Right now, my system is pretty good. R5 3600, 5700XT, oculus quest. At some point in the near future, I'll be upgrading to R7 5700X + RX6900XT (or whatever their equivalents are) and a valve index. I'm pretty much completely rebuilding my system, new board, CPU, GPU, memory, storage, power supply. And I'm selling all my old (current) hardware to my sister so she can play VR as well. She's getting an oculus quest 2.
Meanwhile, my mother is buying my current quest after I get my index. My new components will probably all be here way before the new cards come to retail market, so I bought a used 1070ti for my sister to use until I buy my new card and give her my 5700xt. After that, I'll probably put the 1070ti in my mom's system so she can hopefully play VRChat with me and my sister. Very very strange situation overall and I'm still planning out the whole thing
young marten
vr fam time
summer hedge
Lol scalpers
I got the shit ripped out of me for making a reddit thread saying we should hold retailers accountable for scalping because they put in 0 bot protection
Redditors can be dumb as bricks sometimes
haughty thistle
Ok, so about the Prescription insert lens thingy:
According to an Interview the VR Optician did in German, they are closely working together with Zeiss to develop custom Lenses for each headset that they support. They want to maximize comfort, while also trying to leave as few compromises on the table as possible. That's why their Index lens inserts are the only ones that reach over the lens with the adapter: it's to ensure, that you can keep as much of the horizontal FOV, while only giving up a tiny bit of your vertical FOV