@sullen linden I am guessing you can use your own power bank as long as it supports Quick charge 3, as during testing the battery pack they used was an off the shelf anker battery pack, but that was at GDC last year and it might have changed. (Unless they used power IQ then only anker batteries would work)
#virtual-reality
gentle coral
sullen linden
Ah I see. Then this should possible work
I dont want to bug you with so many questions, just there site is so bad at information. Does the wireless adapter hinder the performance of the vive it self? Lower hz, lower res, dimming, overall performance?
gentle coral
Though I would first get the wireless pack and check the battery part number as it might give a hint on who made it.
Also I dont know if they added a USB clip to keep the cord from getting pulled out of the battery (happened when I have used any of the early wireless packs during a lot of action (this originally caused the games to nearly crash due to the headset no longer being connected to the computer. ))
I am happy to share my experiences and knowledge on VR, that's why I am a VR tech advisor.
Most of the time the wireless adapter causes very little degradation overall, but during any situation in VR that would naturally cause the headset to have issues, those issues become more pronounced. Each one of those problems happens naturally to vr just like on a normal monitor, and just like with a monitor you can tune one thing to make up for another.
I would also check if adding wireless would be a bottleneck to your setup. If you have an insane computer and have never experienced any problems rendering VR while playing really intensive games like modded fallout 4 VR. Then the ammount of data you are pushing might be near the Vives data cap, then you might need to change a few settings as there is no way for any wireless router to send that much data.
But if your computer is sending a normal ammount of data to the vive and your computer has a fast enough connection to the wireless transmitter, you should only see a few milliseconds added to the computer to headset stream.
But also check reviews of the wireless adapters from well known VR tech reviewers, as my experiences with the wireless adapters has always been with somewhat weird setups (hardware beta's, convention floor demos, new compression algorithms). I do not use any wireless during normal vr development and testing as it just adds a variable that I can't control.
But I can say that having no teather is definitely worth it in a lot of high movement situations. Being able to spin around multiple times in a row while shooting waves of enemies is extremely fun.
I would say that I would be fine with a small hit in color accuracy, anti aliasing and edge resolution if it means i do not need to do a reverse spin to untangle my foot or neck and arms from the cord.
Also foveated rendered could cut down the data enough to allow for a few of those problems to be nearly imperceptible to the user.
Just know that if you get all of this tech you will be in a minority that currently would put you above even most VR developers and testers, so you might end up having problems anyway due to things not even the devs could have perceived. QA testing in VR is still mostly done by the end user, as a large number of VR titles are done by indie studios that dont have dozens of very unique setups to test on.
Wireless is a great addition to a good VR setup, and can really improve the immersion and freedom you feel in VR, but it will always have small issues. Also if you search for issues you will probably find them, and you are the one who chooses if these problems are a big enough to hinder your use.
Treat it similar to if you like watching some movies via a stream to your phone, or on a plugged in TV.
Currently the best option is if you can try the tech before you buy (I really wish more places had free public VR setups (I run one and it definitely helps people choose what they want out of VR), but they are few and far between).
I hope some of this info is useful.
sullen linden
This helps greatly, thank you
I wanted wireless badly but same time I want the vive pro to go full bore like it was with wired
sullen linden
@gentle coral if my PC is 65ft away, do they make cords to fit these wireless receivers for the vive that long?
You know the exact cord they use?
twilit sage
@sullen linden The Vive Eye is not for commercial use at this time.
gentle coral
There are a number of ways to extend the cord up to about 100 meters for wired, I got to try an ethernet setup a few years ago at AWE. Here is the video and slide deck.
Though I'm not sure if they have gone to market yet with these solutions.
For doing wireless VR in a large space you will want to make sure the wireless access point that connects to your computer is above the center of your VR space. There might also be a way to have handoff between multiple access points for very large spaces, but I have no experience with setting up a system like that. A lot of this depends on the exact wigig implementation that the wireless headset adapter is currently using.
I just checked and see that they moved to using a pcie slot card, which means your computer does currently need to be in the space you want to use. (Unless you want to use a pcie extension. Like a pcie to u.2 then a u.2 cable and a u.2 to pcie in a box above your vr play area.) (if you are using a laptop then make sure you have thunderbolt 3 and you can adapt that to a external pcie box.)
The TPcast wireless vive has a full router you plugged into your computer, and thus could be extended to whatever length you want, but that system does not support the vive pro. And it supports laptops.
This reddit post might help as well.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/9jkdud/htc_wireless_adapter_lowers_vive_pro_image_quality/
With the vive pro eye foveated rendering and a new compression algorithm you might not see as many issues.
Due to the cost of the wireless adapter you might want to wait a bit until stream compression gets a bit better in the next few months (Google project Stadia, really is forcing everyone upgrade their stream compression so as to be competitive).
azure mortar
I bought some retractable hooks that hang from the ceiling and extended my O+ cord by 25' with a vive link box. I feel like having the cord hang from the ceiling changes everything, no more tripping dont have to worry about reduced performance from wireless(I have a 2080ti)
soft hound
Nice!
Does anyone have experience using a Kinect for full body tracking? I'd mostly be using it for VRChat
surreal tide
You can do that?
azure mortar
you can I have heard of people having some limited success but I dont have a kinect
soft hound
Yes, you can do that
I have access to a Kinect right now, and my adapter for the wall outlet thing (required for use with PC) is on its way now
azure mortar
nice sounds cool
surreal tide
Sounds interesting
soft hound
I'll post how it goes when the piece arrives, unfortunately that won't be until around April 5th
surreal tide
Alright
I might have to look into that, it seems cheaper than getting a bunch of Vive trackers
And a vive
soft hound
Lol, yeah, I don't have money for the trackers right now, so I figured I'd try the Kinect
surreal tide
Yeah
azure mortar
I have a vive and tracers and would love to make them work with my O+ but I havent had much success
surreal tide
Well can't you use Vive controllers with a wmr?
azure mortar
kind of
surreal tide
I'd assume the same would apply to trackers
azure mortar
it gets real wonky
surreal tide
Oh
fringe agate
What is the best vr shooter game. im looking for one that has multiplayer and many interactions with the gun (ie reloading).
sullen linden
@soft hound it works, but everyone I know and talked to did the same when they used there kinect, they all had full body tracking by the end of the month because they loved it so much
The kinect is cheap way but you have to be perfect on point in front of the sensors
If your not, it fucks up
And it aggravated everyone
I used to be a avid vrchat guy and knew tons of kinect people
They all went full body
It's worth the money
Like... its extremely immersive
soft hound
Oh man! Thanks for the info! I would love to buy legitimate trackers, but I only have $180 in funds right now, not $400
Being 17 means funds are not entirely accessable
For now I'll try the Kinect, and move on from there
sullen linden
Dont feel bad using the kinect, it's a great way to get a feel for it.
gentle coral
Oh looks like a lot of interesting stuff has been discussed. I have a few things to say
@fringe agate one of the really immersive vr shooters that is quite detailed is Pavlov (you need to know how each gun is reloaded quite well to play in multi player). Msny pro players have 3d printed gun stock mounts for their vr controllers so that they have better gun balance, and sometimes even attach military bipods to those for sniping.
@azure mortar I also use retractable hooks to hold the cable up. The problem is most of the retractable cable hooks are just modified badge ID reels, and often do not have the right tention to hold the cord up. It ends up getting tied around the neck if the cable does not retract fast enough, or you spin slot. That is why I am designing my own custom tention retractable cable hooks.
@soft hound using the kinect is a very good idea, and there is a lot of documentation online. Soon though full body motion capture suits will go down in price.
@azure mortar vive rift and WMR all use very different tracking technologies so there is very little chance of getting them to talk well, but you can layer them if you want added tracking (the vive puck trackers absolutely need the lighthouses to work properly, and since the lighthouses dont cause to much interference with WMR you could potentially do vr with the WMR and have body tracking with the vive pucks.
@surreal tide if you only have the vive controllers and not the lighthouses you will not be able to track the controllers, and the wmr camera is looking for specific controller features hat vive controllers do not have.
azure mortar
@gentle coral ooh let me know how that goes I dont mind mine but they seem to get looser with time
green crypt
Kinect for fullbody in vrchat is janky if the software gets remade for 2 kinects it can be realy good tho
surreal tide
I know that much
green crypt
I have use the kinect and one thing that is important is a lot of space like 1 meter from your play space is good for the xbox360 kinect and you can only move forwards and backwards
soft hound
Only 3 feet?
green crypt
Well i put mine so far but i would put it further back but that is at my closest spot the border 1m i mainly stand 2 a 3 meter away
soft hound
Oh, ok, that makes more sense. The problem for me is, my computer is in a position, so that if I plugged in the Kinect to it, the Kinect would end up being about 4 feet from me
I don't know if that's too close overall or not
green crypt
That is a bit too close and i guess puting it further back is hard
soft hound
I could put it over my bed, which would give me about 6 feet, except I would need to get a 15' USB extension, which I don't know how well that would work
green crypt
That would work better but be sure to get a good extention you can also extend the property cable to make is easier
soft hound
Yeah, I'll buy one, I have to go, my class is starting
green crypt
See ya later
somber ravine
Anybody got advice for whether to get oculus or vive
sullen linden
Vive. It has better resolution and is more compatible.
somber ravine
OK thanks
green crypt
vive has worse controllers then the oculus but vive is getting better controlers at some point
soft hound
Yeah, the Vive Wands are pretty heavy, I mean, they're good for shooting games (Space Pirate Trainer), but for other things they are meh (I use a Vive)
formal goblet
And what kind of HDMI Extender should i get?
green crypt
i heard from people that the windows mr controllers work on vive but i have never seen proof would be nice to try out when i can get a vive
regal island
I want the Valve Knuckles to get completed and become available. They would make a great replacement to my vive controllers.
gleaming grove
Oculus Rift is Still on sale on Europe site 
fringe agate
Not for the us site
gleaming grove
That is why I am saying it
sullen linden
Anyone recommend signing up for viveport subscription?
left coral
Nope, can't say I recommend signing up for Viveport.
sullen linden
Doesn’t look like a good selection of games tbh.
jovial gulch
Hi everyone,
I'm quite noob around,
But i work full time on VR,
And own about all HMDs on the Market,
If anyone need help or advices,
I would be happy to help
wispy wing
@jovial gulch is MR that different over 'classic' VR ?
(I assume that you have some MR headsets)
jovial gulch
@wispy wing depend the kind of game you plan to play (tracking of controllers way under others)
I have Acer and Odyssey
jovial gulch
But WMR are damn good apart from controllers tracking
gentle coral
Any headset with camera passthrough can do mixed reality, sadly the WMR headsets have almost no good passthrough due to the cameras they used. Vive pro and vive focus currently have the best mixed reality systems. The quest and rift s will have decent MR as well.
The age old image of the spectrum
gentle coral
I'm guessing @wispy wing is talking about Augmented Virtuality. Windows screwed up the naming scheme for the whole industry by not explaining their headsets correctly to consumers or developers (WMR is the brand, not a single type of headset, and out of the large number of headsets in the brand, only 2 (hololense 1&2) are actually mixed reality. Every other headset they have is almost completely VR and falls slightly outside the MR spectrum (unless you force the cameras used for tracking to display stuff for you to interact with. Which can be quite a bit harder then on vive, and it looks horrible.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.roadtovr.com/microsoft-is-adding-pass-through-video-to-windows-vr-headsets/amp/
Still Augmented Virtuality is extremely fun and cool to use, but very few people use it.
The best I have seen is
https://developer.vive.com/resources/knowledgebase/intro-vive-srworks-sdk/
wispy wing
Okay, now I get it, thanks guys :D
jovial gulch
@wispy wing @gentle coralwas speaking about WMR HMDs,
I own only VR HMDs not AR,
(I use a lot my Vive face cameras to grab my beer)
soft hound
Update on full body with Kinect: I have it up and running, and so far so good! I will admit, it's a little annoying that you have to keep facing the Kinect, but I got used to turning with the Vive controller in VRChat. There are some downsides beside the turning: If you crouch too low, the Kinect starts to lose tracking, and your legs start moving around rapidly. If you get too close to the Kinect, it can start to lose you. You can't exactly sit down like you can with Vive Trackers, as the Kinect doesn't really handle that well. If you do use it properly though, it does a pretty good job of detecting the distance of your legs, so putting them in front of you works well, and you can add additional "trackers" to other parts, such as your knees for more accuracy. And finally, I got the whole setup for free, so I can't really complain, though it required a rigorous setup with Kinect2VR
gentle coral
Thats really cool, hope you get good use out of it.
gleaming grove
surreal tide
Knowing valve it's probably gonna launch at like $1500
void grove
I hope not. 
cosmic mirage
I just hope HL VR launches with it 😄
void grove
I'll buy a Vive if they launch HLVR with it.
Because even if Index isn't $1500, it probably won't be $500
rugged walrus
Vive isn't a Valve product, so they can't lower its price
and HTC probably can't afford any more price cuts on it
at best the Vive Pro could get a little more reasonable
sullen linden
i have a mac, i wanna by an egpu for under 400$
that can run vr games
the rx580 asus gaming box is out of stock
jovial gulch
gentle coral
Funny photo I found just now. People copy each other in weird ways
Oculus is in a weird spot
gentle coral
Also I forgot to share this before GDC, but I finally posted my article about taking care of a public vr setup in San Francisco.
I think some of you might find some useful information for taking care of your personal setups.
void grove
The weird thing about Rift S, is that it has a different strap than Quest. 🤔
IMO, I think it would've been better if they just announced that you can connect Quest to a PC.
sullen linden
Yeah, they really didn't need to change the strap imo
jovial gulch
surreal tide
So true tho
gentle coral
I really hope valve releases their headsets with the VR games I know they are working on. And that there are ways to get the headset separate from the lighthouses or controllers. So that people with vive can just get the new headset and controllers.
gentle coral
I am so sorry for everyone here, I think I just convinced one of the VR startups I advise to create a VR meme generation tool, and then get it running on the spatial web (picture reddit or 4chan superimposed over reality.) Guess keiichi's hyper-reality might happen in the chaotic form before it gets to a user controlled form.
If it ever gets built I will let people here know.
fallen adder
gleaming grove
Depends what you mean by good
spiral kindle
depends where you live and whats available
i started off with a cheap second hand windows mixed reality headset for $250 AUD
if you have a decent phone and dont have much money i would try gear vr with riftcat
wmr tracking isnt the greatest but its playable and for me 250 was worth it
if i had abit more money i would of gone with an oculus
as they cheaper than vive
jovial gulch
@fallen adderyou have a good enough computer?
gentle coral
@fallen adder WMR is definitely good, and there are a number of variations. Then a step up would be if you can get the original oculus Rift. Anything above the 349 dollar mark is changing dramatically in the next few months.
If you are a developer windows sometimes gives out WMR headsets (that's how I got mine) at some events around the world.
But like @jovial gulch mentioned, do you have a good enough computer
Minimum I would recommend for use across most games and apps on all headsets is
i5-7400, 16GB 2 channel memory, 256GB ssd, GTX 1060 3GB
If you are about to build a vr machine there are better options for the same price as those parts at this point.
ocean current
Uhm, so i dont know if i should post this here, but i got a problem with HTC Vive,
booting up and all goes perfectly, but if i press the steam button on the controllers, the lighthouses just stop tracking for some reason. it doesnt do this if i use the button on the headset itself
gleaming grove
I have been enjoying my VR on oculus rift on a 200 euro PC (i5-2400, R9 280x, 8 gb ddr3 dual channel. It worked mostly fine plus was using usb 2.0 ports
ocean current
that doesnt help me at all.....
gleaming grove
I am responding to pyconaut
gentle coral
@gleaming grove wow, if that is working well and is stable in games then that is quite the interesting setup. Though I am guessing that rift is using asynchronous time warp for a lot of frames.
@ocean current that sounds like s very weird bug, the easiest steps Is to uninstall steamvr fully and reinstall it and then go through the setup again.
If that does not work, check what settings the lighthouses are on, as sometimes unplugging them can change the settings.
gentle coral
Just found this elsewhere on the discord.
Originally posted by @wild iris
ocean current
@gentle coral
I unplug them alot because the lighthouses also just decide to go into standby mode, however when I'm home from work (just leaving TO work 😖) i will try a full reinstall
dusty dagger
any steamVR users online?
well if anyone shows up they can @ me. I can't figure out how to do stuff in the Home... I have PS2 style controler that lets me move around, but not click stuff.
ocean current
maybe check the settings of steam (The controller part in steam) and try to search for a solution there. im currently at school (yes i said work but i was mistaken with the days) so cant properly help you
@dusty dagger
gleaming grove
@gentle coral Just upgraded the CPU to a FX-6300 and now works without a stutter at all. Only a bit lag on the start from the slow hard drive loading the games.
gentle coral
@gleaming grove Speeding up the games transfer into graphics memory and regular RAM might get rid of that stutter. So a hybrid hard drive might help.
@dusty dagger also check that that controller buttons are actually mapped to things in steamvr. Sometimes uninstalling the controller driver and reinstalling it can fix similar issues I have had where buttons stopped working. Also are you on a vive, rift, or WMR headset, and is the controller wireless or wired.
@gleaming grove I ment the loading lag, not the stutter as you said there was none
surreal tide
Im having trouble deciding which headset to get. I'm thinking the odyssey plus, but then there's the Oculus rift s coming and the new Vive focus
And other headsets
atomic plinth
If you have the money, go for the rift s or the regular Vive, the vive focus isn't really for commercial use
ocean current
I recommend the regular Vive. Despite that I've a really annoying bug.
rugged walrus
@surreal tide wait for more info on the Valve Index
surreal tide
Alright
I'll probably get the rift s then, since, coming from wmr, I feel like the lack of thumbsticks and lower resolution in the vive would be hard to adjust to
But I'll see what happens with the valve index
green crypt
Valve index is rumored to ship with the knuckles controllers
ocean current
@gentle coral
So i rememered your tip, and went out to try it. But steam is on fire so i can't at the moment, does a manual deletion of it also work?
green crypt
if it ships with knucles i might get a vive index when a few monts out
surreal tide
But that also means it will probably be pretty expensive
rugged walrus
that is likely
I don't think Valve has much reason to jump into the kind of $200-400 market Oculus and WMR are hitting
I just hope they keep the price more reasonable than the Vive Pro etc.
green crypt
I guess cheaper then vive pro will come with knucles now called valve index controllers orders at may 1
MixedrealityTV made a video a few hours ago
gentle coral
@ocean current yes you can do manual deletion (if you are talking about using app uninstall(I would not recommend using a fire extinguisher to uninstall apps from drives).
thin thicket
id try one of those phone vr things, they work pretty ok for getting started out
dusty dagger
@gentle coral it's a WMR... I'm currently trying the wireless control that came with it, but I have a logitech wired one...I can move around, but not "click" on things, or "click menu" to start the tutorial that I assume is there.
dusty dagger
I got this reply on the steam forum...I'll try to translate it and give it a go:)
gentle coral
Oh yep, forgot that they haven't created a controller setting in the regular steam settings yet that automatically switches the steamvr devices controller and the big picture controller setup.
dusty dagger
@gentle coral so that makes sense to you?
(I got too involved setting up a 4th monitor..a new soundbar, and shredding 20 year old bank statements to try out the vr today)
ocean current
Using a fire extinguisher to delete something sounds fun!
gentle coral
@dusty dagger Yes, as steam client is actually somewhat different then steamvr they can sometimes cause the regular controllers (non vr 6dof controllers) to get a bit confused and think you are trying to activate something in regular steam, and not steamvr home.
ocean current
Tho, I'm at work right now. And sadly cannoy play VR 
green crypt
I'm probably gonna get the vive index in the Future. I just hope the price will be decent inbetween the vive and the vive pro price atm. They will drop when the index is out for sure
green crypt
They can't make it more then the vive pro. Even tho it's better / the same from rumors lets just see in one month
surreal tide
Yeah
dusty salmon
what games do you guys think i should get? i already have gorn,beat saber and robo recall. i was thinking about getting the climb and i'm still thinking about that, i have been recommended job sim,budget cuts and superhot vr but those games are boring,frustrating and too short
i think i could get the climb
and i'm still kinda thinking about chronos
what do you guys think?
ocean current
@gentle coral So, i just reinstalled SteamVR and it didn't fix it.
And i found the solution too, just disable the camera.
(I set all the settings back to the original setting and that fixed it)
gentle coral
@dusty salmon if you like robo recall, you might also really like Raw Data, and that has quite a bit of content. If you are fine with adding mods, skyrim VR or fallout 4 VR is a lot of fun as well.
sullen linden
New Oculus UI update. Looks so much better!
gleaming grove
jovial gulch
@sullen linden lol, Vive is dead
frozen dune
Come on vive for sure isn’t dead yet but they need to make something new to stay on market
But for sure I don’t wanna see something like vive pro again because Paying soo much for only headset was bullshit
jovial gulch
@frozen dune Vive just don't care about consumer market
frozen dune
Kinda tru but if they change mind set to invest in consumer market they can for sure be on top
jovial gulch
I'm sure it's kind to late for them,
and the Valve partenership did seems to end early this year,
so,
apart the fact Oculus is banned from China, i don't see how they can survive
frozen dune
Valve did ended partnership 
I didn’t hear about this
jovial gulch
@frozen dune 2.0 lighthouse supplies to HTC did brutal end in January
since that,
they don't sell it anymore
(1.0 are made by HTC in Taiwan, 2.0 by Valve in USA)
frozen dune
Hhhmmm thx for info about it then
sullen linden
I asked for the best headset not value
The best of the best, not some Chinese POS 8k, I mean the most immersive and most advanced display
@jovial gulch
What headset atm is the best
Like king of the top
of res, body tracking
etc etc
That works with that
surreal tide
If you're looking for high res and good tracking the Vive Pro is an option
sullen linden
@jovial gulch thought vive was dead
Looks like it's still the best of the best
intresting
jovial gulch
@sullen lindenwait à little bit for new valve's HMD
Vive pro is damn expensive and have crappy lenses
sullen linden
Din't they fixed the lense with the galaxy?
Since it does have eye tracking and renders where ever your eyes are looking at
I been out of the loop for 8 months and just got back into it
seen alot has changed
jovial gulch
@sullen lindenthe foveal rendering just don't work yet,
The GearVr mod is damn nice but have to do it yourself
OG vive Pro don't have eye tracking
gentle coral
@sullen linden there is no such thing as vive Galaxy, you might be getting the vive cosmos confused with the vive pro eye. Cosmos has not been confirmed to have any eye tracking.
The Pimax is by no means bad, it has a better screen then anyone else by a long shot (at the moment) (until the $3000+ range), and although it does not come with controllers or base stations, those are already able to be purchased separately.
@jovial gulch I would not say Vive is dead whatsoever, as their business is an absolute success in Asia. Though I would say they would like to leave HTC as soon as possible. They are releasing two new headsets in the next few months, the groups that I talked with at GDC seemed extremely busy and were working on some big partnerships for viveport (I still dislike viveport, but they seem like they are trying to use it). They also dominate the research and high end market which is at the moment a much more stable market then consumer for VR tech, for now.
surreal tide
I think I might be sold on the rift s
Sure, the slightly lower resolution and refresh rate might be a problem but I can adjust
sullen linden
When will the vive pro eye come out?
jovial gulch
@gentle coral did talk with them at some ViveX meetings
They just don't care about consumer market anymore,
And they survive in Asia only cause Facebook is banned from China
gentle coral
@jovial gulch is that a question for me? About ViveX.
sullen linden
I can def tell you hate vive.
and yes I got confused with the cosmos @gentle coral
jovial gulch
@gentle coral speak about how they handle business about VR
gentle coral
Oculus would have a hard time in Asia as they have no rugged version of their gear (the arcade market is a extremly viable consumer VR method there).
@jovial gulch vivex is their accelerator and thus changes focus to help improve the different groups that work with them. On the website you can see that there are a lot of hardware and software teams they have helped. The viveport teams and vive software teams are usually slightly different.
void grove
I now have $350 towards a VR headset, I hope the index isn't anymore than $600, but I somehow doubt it. :c
wraith oak
If you have RTX be weary
gentle coral
@wraith oak about what?
jovial gulch
@void grovei just know Index will be expensive, cause RiftS will not be able to compete on experience lvl
twilit sage
@void grove the index, with the knuckles and trackers will go above 800 USD. I just dont see how such tech could go below 500.
@sullen linden The VIVE Index will release sometime this year, with a reveal in may. The VIVE EYE isnt meant for consumers and no games support it atm IIRC.
@jovial gulch VIVE isn't dead, their sales are still great. It's just that they have a different target market right now. Just because you can't afford a VIVE doesnt mean that its dead. Stop being pretentious
they arent the only competitor in Asia - WMR and PiMax are competing with Vive there.
If their sales would be dead HTC would stop production altogether. Doesnt seem to be the case.
Rift S is meant to be a incremental upgrade, kinda like the PS4 slim. Its the same experience for a low price, and for the average consumer the price means more than experience.
jovial gulch
@twilit sagethe Index isn't a VIVE HMD...
@twilit sagei have all HMDs, just telling that Vivepro is damn crappy for it's price
My point is that Valve and Vive partnership did end early this year, (impossible to get 2.0 base from HTC since this)
And that only the VIVE pro eye would remaind Light House tracked on HTC side,
We're not even sure if the cosmos will be SteamVR compatible or not,
OK they're not dead, but they whent from leader team with best HMDs in 2016,
And since this,
We saw No improvement at all
(Vive Pro is just a joke for it's price and it use 3years old crappy OG vive lens.... Even if I use it as my main HMD)
So to me,
Without the full valve partnership,
HTC Vive worth way less on global VR market,
It's just impossible for them to keep the Hight end market with the Index coming...
twilit sage
Oh you know, maybe after 2016 some dozen more affordable HMDs appeared? WMR, Oculus price cut, PiMax. Thats why they lost their market share. More people were able to make the jump.
Gaben himself said that they dont want to make an affordable headset, because "we havent made the best one yet". They are targeting enthusiasts at the moment. As for what HTC is doing? No clue, but the Vive is going to be a great option once again after the Knuckles release.
rugged walrus
probably not, if you want an affordable option the Rift S is better, if you want a higher end option wait for the Index
void grove
Yeah, I might pick up a Rift S at a local store and return it if it doesn't fit me properly. 
But I've tried the Rift and Vive and they've worked fine with the base IPD
If they were using the base IPD
jovial gulch
@void grovei you're on 64mm ipd or near, you just don't care
gentle coral
@jovial gulch since you say you have a ton of headsets, do you by any chance have any of the headsets made idealens, I have been looking for a review of their newest headset.
Also be careful if you say you have all HMD's that is a dangerous statement. People sometimes come to me with headset questions about really obscure headsets and chaos ensues. Thus I no longer say all that I have access to anything other then WMR, oculus, and steam VR. (At least here in the bay area I know tons of people who like creating and playing on rare and or old headsets, and questions turn into week long adventures into the deep end of immersive tech).
jovial gulch
by all HMDs, i mean ALL controllers types (i need those for work)
so right now I have :
-Vive (moded)
-Oculus
-Vive Pro (moded) with knuckles
-Odyssey
-Acer WMR (quite same as Dell and previous lenovo or HP WMR)
had for only 2 weeks :
-Pimax 5k+
@gentle coral by now, the best screens/lens are on the Odyssey
void grove
I don't know what my IPD is...
Or I could just go to my eye doctor and ask if they tested my IPD last time I went.
jovial gulch
@void grove I just know mine is quite average
jovial gulch
surreal tide
Would the rift s be good for an enthusiast with a lower budget (<$500)?
sullen linden
Anyone else get a chance to try Vacation Simulator yet? I don’t like the progression path for it, but I’m liking it much more than Job Simulator
gentle coral
I am hoping to get a press key in the next few days, and then do a livestream. At GDC I went to one of their talks and got to see how insane the games underlying system is. I just hope that the progression path is variable enough. Sound like it might not be. How many hours have you played so far?
sullen linden
*** best headset to buy rn? ***
@ me if answering
sullen linden
@gentle coral I’m only about 2hrs in and I can tell it’s pretty complex. The general movement controls are simple/comfortable and the variety of activities is phenomenal. My only gripe with the progression is that it’s not that good for the casual users who don’t spend more than an hour at a time in VR. Each of the activities has memories you can earn, and you need a specific amount before unlocking new activities. I understand what they were going for with it, but it’d be nice for demo purposes to disable that system.
azure mortar
@sullen linden In my opinion the Odyssey+ for visuals and vive for tracking but I like the Odyssey+ as it feels more immersive to me to not have the screen door effect. But for others the screen door effect doesn't bother them very much.
heady gorge
@twilit sage the index and knuckles wont have to be bought together
Knuckles will be 200-300, index will be 300-400ish, that’s my guess
Valve won’t have HTC bullying them to make a bunch of profit
twilit sage
It was leaked that there are going to be 3 bundles
sullen linden
@heady gorge do we have confirmation on knuckles yet?
heady gorge
Yes
sullen linden
Link?
heady gorge
the store pages got leaked
twilit sage
dev footage too
sullen linden
“the page was titled ‘Valve Index Controllers’, which suggests that the company may drop the Knuckles name when it comes time to ship” dam I was hoping to see the actual knuckles.
sullen linden
I don’t see knuckles mentioned anywhere on the page, so I’m confused how we have confirmed knuckles still
twilit sage
...you just said it yourself
the page was titled ‘Valve Index Controllers’, which suggests that the company may drop the Knuckles name when it comes time to ship
which suggests that the company may drop the Knuckles name
sullen linden
Do we have pictures that confirm the index controllers are in fact knuckles? I don’t want to solely rely on the author of the article
sullen linden
Lol 😂
twilit sage
There is a SteamVR Image leak that I cant be bothered to find
Where the Index, along with the knuckles and BS2.0 were showing up in the SteamVR tray
In this thing
sullen linden
I’ve tried looking them up and this is all I found for confirmed knuckles
twilit sage
yeah these are prototype units sent out to game devs
sullen linden
That’s a rift with touch controller in the steam tray. I can get a screenshot of my own steam vr tray
sullen linden
I thought knuckles were supposed to go way beyond the touch controllers, but it looks a step behind
twilit sage
...I assume you haven't been following the news
Like
at all
and for quite a while at that
^Also, picture that I was talking about
sullen linden
Haven’t seen news pertaining knuckles since 2017
twilit sage
Go do some digging. We're not here to lay everything out on a silver plate. The info is accessible to everyone.
You can start by checking out the official Moondust demos available for download right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3Tj9Jk6T3Q https://youtu.be/nsQLwWaFAh4
These are units that are very close to the final design, if not final.
sullen linden
I didn’t know anyone got actual demo units, watched the first video and the tracking seems pretty nice
jovial gulch
@sullen lindenknuckles are just great
I was confirmed by Valve that the EV3 prototype was representative of finals ones
Finals are known as 'DV'
gentle coral
Last night I got to try on the Hololense 2 at a dev talk in SF (also got to watch a lead developer demo it.) It is better then the first hololense in every way. And has a ton of power in terms of sensor based compute when connected to Microsoft Azure.
It is way more comfortable, has eye tracking, and beam forming microphones
I'll find the event video for anyone who is interested
surreal tide
Ooh
surreal tide
Looks promising
gentle coral
Though it is still expensive, and has a very small dev community. Though soon they will have an emulator so that developers can design for it without needing one.
And most of the software is going open source
heady gorge
void grove
"accidentally"
gentle coral
I am guessing it was one of the older employees from before they were bought by Facebook, some of the early devs really liked doing jokes and stuff like that. Though so few of the original core team is still with oculus. I am guessing that the group who made this happen absolutely has a reason. Or Facebook is trying media tactics to shift stories away from some of the massive issues facing Facebook in general.
Oculus internally might be trying to get Facebook to rethink some of its strategy with regards to VR, as there are massive dangers for VR when it comes to privacy invasion.
Just read this report
http://www.newhaven.edu/news/releases/2019/discover-vulnerabilities-virtual-reality-app.php
Oculus is probably really worried that user data on oculus could be targeted as well.
And here is a document from the WebXR design doc
atomic plinth
gentle coral
Cool, can't wait to hear what non press thinks about these devices
void grove
Also, what does "F8" mean?
Oh.
The Facebook conference
Isn't Google's event very soon too?
Google i/o is next month.
void grove
Amazon is still selling the Rift with Touch for $350.
jovial gulch
gentle coral
Dang that's sad, I really wanted to test it. Having used 3D printed VR gun systems I can say that they are extremely useful and also having tried Tactical Haptics VR controllers I can say that ForceTube would have been really cool.
Force feedback is an amazing experience for VR (it really helps immersion)
jovial gulch
@gentle coral we still doing it,
will deliver backers following the same initial plan (huge majority or the backer base already gave us the green light)
gentle coral
The article did not explain what plan B was or that this is only an issue for the early bird price, it did not mention that if it would be available for non kickstarter backers for a different price. I want to know if it will be available to people other then kickstarter backers at a later date, or if they are only doing a single run.
I want to test it anyway, especially for an upcoming haptics article I am working on, but I'll have very different things to say if it is going to be generally available to the public in the future, compared to if it is only going to be a one run product. I couldn't find information on what will happen for people who did not back the project.
jovial gulch
@gentle coralactual informations are more for the backers right now,
But,
We keep on plan A,
The product will be available for order/pre-order soon (prior given to backers)
limber copper
what hedset would you guys recmmend for a kid who spent his money on a 3-d printer?
nothin?
jovial gulch
@limber copper how much you have?
sullen linden
Id spend my money on autocorrect software
gentle coral
@limber copper there are a few open source projects for 3D printable VR headsets, but almost none of them are as polished as vive or oculus, or WMR. All three have software where you can 3d model stuff then 3D print it (I know tons of people who 3D print VR art they make). But I would recommend waiting tell st least May 1st as that is when the Oculus Quest and Rift S are launched, and orders for Valve Index starts. Also vive Focus Plus came out yesterday, and more info on the Vive Cosmos will also likely come out in a few weeks.
Also here is a common vr project for people with 3d printers
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.roadtovr.com/got-3d-printer-vr-gun-stock-worth-filament/amp/
This is the one my friend got 3 years ago
https://www.etsy.com/listing/491103695/htc-vive-magnetic-dual-controller-rifle
But now with so many variations you can even design it to your liking.
The ForceTubeVR force feedback attachment that was talked about above really excites me about the future of these types of kits.
Another set that is on Indiegogo is
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mamut-apto-magnet-vr-gun-stock#/
If you enjoy 3D printing make most of it yourself and then buy the ForceTubeVR if you plan to play a lot of shooting games.
@jovial gulch thanks for the info, it sounds like you work on the project or understand it quite well. I am very excited to try it out at some point. Hopefully they come to California for one of the upcoming tech or gaming conventions.
@jovial gulch
(I just saw your chat head and made the logo connection). Guess my brain was not running at its rated boost clock.
jovial gulch
@gentle coralI'm the ProTubeVR 's CEO
😋
gentle coral
@jovial gulch Thanks for the information, looks like everything is probably going to be good to go in the next few months.
Also you should definitely try to get LMG to review the system.
And if you are able to DM chat at some point I would enjoy interviewing you about ProTubeVR, and ForceTubeVR for a few articles I am working on.
jovial gulch
@gentle coral Already send a message to the LMG Staff members about the ForceTube, but i don't want to spam them
jovial gulch
gentle coral
Oh that looks nice
twilit sage
Oooooo
topaz ridge
So I turned my Samsung Odyessy into an augmented reality headset, but I’m currently running into an issue with usb devices.
Currently, whenever I plug in the odyessy it automatically installs drivers for two devices.
One being “mixed reality headset” which is a subgroup of monitors.
The other being “hololens sensors” which is the cameras/imu.
The issue I’m having is that I need to override the default wmr stuff. So I want the headset’s displays to show up as normal monitors and the imu just as sensors so I can use my own runtime to run distortion algorithms.
Any ideas on how I can go about this?
mellow berry
gentle coral
@topaz ridge nice idea making it in the project north star style. If you can, try running it within unity with the mixed reality toolkit, and steamvr you might be able to find out if there are settings to do this.
Though there might be hardware code on the screen driver board (if you are swing the WMR one that sets some distortion calibrations and you might need to figure out how to make the system ignore that. If you know what is running that you dont want running maybe test if quarantining those scripts (like with antivirus) will change anything.
topaz ridge
Unity hands a non distorted image to the windows mixed reality runtime which then distorted the image.
The windows mixed reality runtime opens anytime I plug the device in
Steamvr just forwards the non distorted image to wmr to be distorted
swift glacier
how can a ps4 pull of vr gaming
topaz ridge
By using lower resolution screens and having an RX 480 attached to it (ps4 pro)
As far as I’m aware you need the ps4 pro to run the psvr.
The games on psvr are also heavily optimized for it, you’re not going to run the same quality as PC vr
stiff kelp
Hey VR peoples, looking for some advice on LTT forums;
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1056851-2080ti-what-to-look-for-and-what-to-avoid/
I am a heavy VR user, currently vive but looking to future too and eager to hear about the index etc
gentle coral
@topaz ridge these links might help you find the information that you need.
Windows OpenXR testing
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/mixed-reality/openxr
Windows MRTK2 just released
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/mixed-reality/mrtk-getting-started
Or find out the exact distortion that odyssey is doing, program in a pre distortion (that corrects and then modifys ) that runs before unity or steam sends it to WMR.
Also have you heard of anyone else who has done what you are doing before? If so they would be a great person to contact.
I'll try to remember to ask about this the next time I'm at a WMR event. But keep at it, it should be able to be done.
topaz ridge
@gentle coral yeah, I run the project northstar discord so I’ve met most of the people working on northstar, I’ve the only one working on this specific variant currently.
The issue with openxr is that it’s just a bridge between the application and the runtime, so it doesn’t do any distortion.
I was initially trying to use steamvr but it also doesn’t handle distortion for wmr, just hands the non distorted image to the mixed reality portal, so there’s nothing I can currently do to change that.
In order to do the inverse distortion I’d have to distort it once for northstar and then again for wmr correction, but there’s also chromatic aberration correction.
I’ll look into it more but I think the best way forward would be to run openhmd, which would mean I’d have to figure out how to take control of the usb devices for the headset.
gentle coral
since your in the northstar discord I think they have better technical support then here, but as the problem you are facing is quite unique, I understand why you posted it here, maybe one of the other devs in this discord might be able to help more then me. I am much more on the hardware side then software.
gentle coral
Wow haven't seen the nolo in a long time, sounds like they still need some work
Though putting the headset sensor on the front of the headset might help a bit
So that the controllers aren't below the sensor as much
Though if that is what nolo said to do, then I hope they put enough effort to redesign it for that use case. I always tried demos with the controller sensor on a table
young marten
I got my base station on a tripod 2 meters away and around shoulder height. The head tracker is only really used for head position so on top of the headset is best for it. I only use the gyro and magnetic senors from my iPhone because it's a lot more responsive going through iVry (steamvr & mobile interface software). Had this set up for about a year and put around 700+ hrs into it. The touch pads and stuff are slowly breaking and maintaining the right distortion profile (custom made with another app) can be very annoying.
gentle coral
Oh I forgot the base station was separate from the head tracker
void grove
Speaking of jank tracking systems, Razer should rerelease the Razer Hydra.
Also, F8 is like 9 days away.
gentle coral
Yep to both
I really wish razer kept up with vr. They had OSVR and could have beat Chronos group to create a hardware and software standard.
hearty geyser
does anyone know of any decent budget vr sets?
unborn badge
windows mixed reality
void grove
Google cardboard
young marten
^
sturdy panther
Two loo rolls stuck together, the fov is rubbish but the graphics is like being there
tender cipher
Oculus Go is p good @hearty geyser
twilit sage
its a good media consumption device, not a good VR gaming device
@hearty geyser WMR is your best bet if you have a pc that can handle VR. HMD sets like the Lenovo Explorer and the Dell Visor often go on sale and you can get them plus controllers for like 200-250 USD on amazon or newegg
Just dont buy it without controllers, Microsoft doesnt sell the controllers separately
surreal tide
Yep
twilit sage
Buying used is also an option and better for the planet, however hygienic questions arise.
I personally use an OG Rift. The support Oculus has is amazing, theyve replaced my right controller twice without questions or complications
The touch controllers are the best ones out there for now
However if you dont have a PC that can handle VR the Oculus Quest is your only option if you want to play good games like beat saber @hearty geyser
Its possibly getting released after F8
young marten
The oculus Quest would be a good option if you don't have a vr ready pc and don't plan on getting one anytime soon
void grove
4ish days till F8...
void grove
Hopefully it releases May 1st...
twilit sage
Oculus home is pretty big yknow
shell zodiac
my main problem with vr is how inaccessible it is
the rift and vive arent even available on amazon
young marten
Because they have new stuff coming out in a couple of days @shell zodiac
shell zodiac
ye the regular rift will become pointless once the rift s launches
no cameras and the same price 
twilit sage
the regular rift is discontinued
they stopped producing it
it wont become cheaper
and no, its not pointless either. Better tracking and screens (OLED over LCD, 90Hz vs 80Hz), as well as comfort and controllers over the rift s
gleaming grove
I meant the S? Doesn't it seem like worse value
twilit sage
no
its a sidegrade
it really depends on who you are and what you need
My friend, for example, waited for the Rift S because of the cameras
he is on the move often
and has a laptop
His reasons to pick it over WMR were better controllers and better game support overall.
The Rift S is like a WMR headset, its essentially the Lenovo Explorer, but it uses oculus controllers and oculus software
young marten
I thought the rift s screen was LCD not OLED and at 80hz
gleaming grove
yeah LCD is a big 
twilit sage
it has a higher resolution though
young marten
yeah I didn't see the edit
twilit sage
Its really not, its just that the colors will be a bit off
especially the darker ones
Blacks will be grey
surreal tide
And a 10hz difference can't be that bad, can it?
surreal tide
Yeah
twilit sage
gtg
surreal tide
Alrighty
gleaming grove
My Rift gets 40 C hot on top the plastic
ivory arch
Refresh rate > resolution
And your oculus should never get that hot lol
I used to have one and it was never that hot
I have a vive now though so I don’t really remember
gleaming grove
Did you measure it or just by feel? @ivory arch
ivory arch
Just by feel, but even then it was rarely warm
gleaming grove
well then I don't believe you
ivory arch
Regardless of a potential temperature problem, the headset itself is pretty bad
It’s only redeeming feature is the controllers
Very happy that I made the switch to vive
gleaming grove
yeah I can't really afford it
I am happy that the resell value of my Rift is pretty high in my country
surreal tide
Hmm
void grove
Sadly, i don't have a Go or rift, so I'll have to watch it on FB live or YouTube
twilit sage
my rift gets a bit warm too yea
twilit sage
🤔
ivory arch
Honestly things aren’t looking good for the Rift considering the Rift S will inevitably be a flop and the index is releasing soon
twilit sage
Rift S will be a flop? Are you high?
void grove
Yeah, unless the index's complete package is 600, I'm getting a Rift S
shell zodiac
600$ vr is too much if they dont want it to sell less than 50k units
thats the price of 2 nintendo switches
void grove
Yeah, but they're trying to boast it as the "best VR headset", so i wouldn't expect it to be cheaper than the Vive's current price.
young marten
The index is pretty high end so I don't think they are trying to break recorders by selling more units than ever before.
young marten
Say what you will, that's still a nice line up of models oculus has
tropic oasis
Odd that HTC has a monopoly on the market (since fb owns oculus apparently which means it's dead).
void grove
I guess there's no need to watch the F8 Keynote.
Also, this is mildly dissapointing.
shell zodiac
yall are spoiled you can just easily get it
gleaming grove
Kind of expected
sullen linden
Do we have resolution specs for the HMD? Cus $500 by itself is really pushing it if it’s just a slight upgrade to the vive/rift
void grove
It's 1440x1600 LCD per eye
But supports up to 144 Hz, but it I heard that's experimental
tepid vapor
The microphone texture on the ear pieces are ugly as sin.
Says it supports the 144Hz frame rates on the Tech specs page, as far as I'm concerned that endorsement of it
gentle coral
@sullen linden, yes all forms of base stations work.
tepid vapor
HDMI not supported. oof
gentle coral
Just get an active conversion dongle
tepid vapor
yeah I know, these ports standards just move so quickly, hell all of tech is moving so quickly
wooden token
Quest w/a 9.5 on IGN. Awesome.
magic bobcat
Index seems way too expensive for people either jumping in or wanting to switch to Valve hardware. I mean shit, I bought a Rift a year and a half ago for a little over 300 bucks including 2 touch controllers and 3 sensors. Even for someone who enjoys VR, making the switch to Index is just too steep a price.
gentle coral
That's why steam vr is modular, you upgrade one thing at a time.
For the setup I take care of, I am probably going to get the controllers right when they are released, the steamvr 2.0 trackers a few months later, and the new headset in about a year
gleaming grove
How much are the controllers? I can't see the price because it says it is not avaible in my country
sand swan
what I really want to know is if index will support any kind of wireless adapter in the future
verbal axle
controllers are $280 @gleaming grove
sly night
sucks that the index is expensive but now I can buy a used Vive for cheaper 
void grove
Is Ubisoft and Bethesda really the only AAA devs/publishers pushing VR right now?
gentle coral
If you mean companies that have a long game history and are nearly monopolies, then add Epic, Sony, and Insomniac games to that list
void grove
Oh, i forgot about insomniac. It's hard to say Sony, because most, if not all, of their stuff is ps4 exclusive. And i guess there's also Microsoft to a degree.
Oh, and Sony seems to be more like Valve in the sense that they helped create the tools, but don't really seem to be making anything themselves.
twilit sage
Oh damn, Index is 1000$ in the US
Lets check how fucked the EU pricing is
Not like I would buy it anyway. The knuckles are fucking rad, I really want them, but Im satisfied with my Rift so far.
And I dont think my 1070 will handle the new games well
Its more of a enthusiast headset, nothing for the mainstream
Valve want to make something perfect before exploring other options.
Im more interested in what games are going to launch with the Index
If it releases with nothing then valve did something wrong
new hardware with no use case
And I mean First Party titles, not boneworks
shell zodiac
huh okay
so i can let myself forget about the index for about 4 years
then it will be cheaper and ill get it
void grove
Yeah, I'm going to be picking up the Rift S my self in 20 days.
void grove
Probably Best Buy
I should call up and ask if they're going to do a midnight launch.
shell zodiac
newegg is the only choice that isnt that overpriced for me
but ive never ordered anything from them
void grove
Oh yeah, with Newegg, i don't think i have to pay tax on it.
Inb4 i just use the Rift S to watch Netflix through Dash.
Apperently the Rift S head band is removable. 
sullen linden
need help
should i buy the standalone rift
or should i save money for a gpu and buy the rift s?
both are 400$ whats the difference
twilit sage
@gleaming grove Where is that "more games" statement from
@sullen linden If you want better tracking, an oled screen and 90Hz get the rift
If you want mobility, ease of setup and the feeling of having something new get the rift S
Reminder to Rift owners with warranty: RMA whatever you can right now, they might run out of refurb controllers/HMDs
gleaming grove
@twilit sage Well I assumed you can't play HTC games on quest
like how would you do it?
twilit sage
Via streaming
Oh I thought he said regular rift
the Quest isnt the rift lmao
Sorry, my bad
tepid vapor
ah yeah I didn't get that either
twilit sage
But for future reference: no the Rift S wont have exclusive games that wont work on the og Rift
shell zodiac
tbh why does the htc vive still exist
oculus are making huge improvements and the vive has new controllers, i guess?
that the index also has it iirc
twilit sage
The Valve Index
shell zodiac
and what advantages does the vive have over the rift s
shell zodiac
a sidegrade, new controllers and a standalone headset are much more than new controllers
they must have something to show soon
twilit sage
Oh man you must be misinformed
void grove
The rift s controllers aren't really new, just improved
twilit sage
They arent even improved, just adapted to a different tracking technology
shell zodiac
i was talking about the touch controllers not the slightly changed one
shell zodiac
the rift s and quest controllers
shell zodiac
no their controllers are a bit different from the regular rift
twilit sage
...what
The Rift S is a PCVR HMD while the Quest is its own thing with its own eco system
Both use the same, revamped Touch controllers
They both use these
shell zodiac
Okay so ill explain
twilit sage
Please do.
shell zodiac
I was wondering why would anyone want the htc vive over the rift s, the rift s has exclusives (with steam vr support), the headset is lighter and the setup is much easier and faster
shell zodiac
the knuckles are bought separately tho
shell zodiac
thats personal preference
twilit sage
The Rift S ultimately is aimed towards the mainstream 14 year old that only saw a youtuber play VR once and wants to do it as well
The Vive and Index are more oriented towards enthusiasts at this point
shell zodiac
tru
gleaming grove
I could actually see myself hitting that ring A LOT when I cross my arms to slice boxes in beat saber so that look as a downgrade for me
twilit sage
I would pick the Rift over Vive but the Vive over the Rift S
shell zodiac
because of the cameras?
twilit sage
I just hate the new controller design, and I dislike the camera tracking
Oh and the halo strap is also not my thing
its loose on the bottom, light bleed and such
shell zodiac
after the first setup the cameras should work better and you probably wont be moving much anyways since its connected to a pc
twilit sage
Ill stick to my rift. Might even sell it to get a Vive and knuckles at some point
The inside out tracking is worse than outside in
Its just a matter of how much worse
void grove
But I'm not 14.
void grove
Lel
gleaming grove
In poker VR I mostly meet adults
twilit sage
I don't know how to play poker :P
void grove
Well, by the time i buy a vive and knuckles, i could've just gotten an index.
void grove
I have the min spec
gleaming grove
It is a really enjoyable social game
void grove
GTX 970
twilit sage
oh no, dont get the Index
just dont
You will regret it
With a 970 you wont like it
void grove
Does the Vive pro or the odyssey preform poorly with a 970?
twilit sage
Yes
void grove
Ah...
twilit sage
The screen resolution is too much for a 970
dont expect to play AAA-like games on high even with a Vive
gleaming grove
I am really interested to see how does 144Hz feel like.
void grove
Gsync vr when?
twilit sage
F4VR is a garbage game anyway, you're not missing out
Im still disappointed by it even though I got it for free
void grove
twilit sage
So unoptimized
And it took hours to get it to work well
And I uninstalled it after an hour anyway
Wouldnt recommend it
autocorrect 
void grove
Wut about skyrim vr?
twilit sage
Dont have it, no idea
void grove
Ok
twilit sage
I've heard its better
surreal tide
The Samsung oddysey+ is like $370 on amazon, should I get that over the rift s?
twilit sage
...so does F4VR iirc
void grove
Animu gril mods?
shell zodiac
its called vrchat
twilit sage
@surreal tide Do you want to sacrifice better controls for OLED?
shell zodiac
but the animu grils are edgy teen boys
twilit sage
If so, Odyssey+
If you want better controls and tracking, get the Rift S
If you want better visuals at the cost of some meh controllers, Odyssey+
surreal tide
Alright then, thanks for the help
twilit sage
Both are great, however WMR lacks support of some older games
Or well, I assume the Rift S is great
void grove
Also, you'll need Bluetooth for the odyssey
void grove
Oh, that's nice.
twilit sage
oh?
How so?
the Visor is one of the nicer ones in my opinion, but I still think that the new HP one and the Odyssey+ are the best WMR headsets
void grove
I heard the lenovo one was pretty good.
surreal tide
The tracking was getting wonky and weird, then the entire thing just stopped working
twilit sage
did you mean the Rift S
@surreal tide Have you tried to RMA it?
Or did you buy used
surreal tide
Used
twilit sage
oh, tough luck
Dell wont give a shit in this case
If it wouldve been HTC or Oculus they wouldve given you a pass
Samsung too sometimes
But not Dell lmao
surreal tide
Yeah
twilit sage
We are talking about the company that owns Alienware
surreal tide
I got a good year of heavy use out of it tho
twilit sage
nice
I used the fuck out of my when I got it November last year
and Ive used it rarely since February or so
Factorio has been keeping me busy
surreal tide
I got mine in April last year, and used the fuck out of it until it broke around two months ago
autumn tangle
shell zodiac
bruh do you even have a pfp
sullen linden
@twilit sage ^ so much for htc being able to help
twilit sage
Hm?
sullen linden
@twilit sage If it wouldve been HTC or Oculus they wouldve given you a pass
Samsung too sometimes
But not Dell lmao
Dell: sells HTC's vive since 2018
twilit sage
Yeah they sell them but they dont deal with support
surreal tide
$999, that's twice the price of my pc
gentle coral
@twilit sage you posted about using the index controllers with an oculus rift. I hope you know that you still need the vive base stations as well as the controllers which comes to a price of 577 dollars. Plus two steam controller dongles which adds another 26 dollars. That's a lot of money for just getting controllers to work.
twilit sage
You only need one as per tutorial
Yes Im aware that it is 600 USD
But hey, its worth a try.
I probably wont do it anyway
swift knoll
ok
if i already have a vive
should i get the valve index and controllers
or the entire set with base stations
is the tracking really that much better?
gentle coral
Tracking is almost preceptably identical unless you go bigger then 15x15, or are hypersensitive to jitter. The new trackers are betterin a few ways, and you can link up to 16 of them. I personally am going to get the headset and controllers before the 2.0 lighthouses. Also there is a chance that the lighthouses might go down in price sometime soon. It is up to your use case.
This reddit page is helpful
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/89s49o/advantages_of_lighthouse_20/
shell zodiac
i think you should stay with your vive but get the new controllers
the price is too high
for just an upgraded experience
not that it was bad in the first place
twilit sage
Um
Its an upgrade overall
Better screen, FOV (iirc), speakers, lenses
I think it's worth the price tag
But yeah I would get the knuckles first before the Index HMD
shell zodiac
yo gimme your vive then
gleaming grove
I am guessing Quest won't have mod support for Beat Saber. Does anyone know if it will?
sand swan
modding isnt offficially supported. so it depends if the modders can figure out how to do it. It wont be as easy as modding on pc, so I wouldn't expect it to happen for awhile (if it even happens)
soft hound
@swift knoll Why not get the Deluxe Audio Headstrap?
gentle coral
Headstrap's are hard, I have been working on designing a highly universal (easy to use and comfortable) VR headstrap for 3 years and at this point I have given up on making a headstrap under 100 dollars (comfort, adaptability, longevity and ease of use cost a lot of money).
(It is going to be for a few vr systems in a number of years)
next rain
Guess who just pre-ordered their first vr headset 👀 I ordered the Oculus S, it's shipping on the 24:th, i've been wanting a vr headset for years
ocean current
I got a HTC Vive
twilit sage
Ive got the OG rift
no plans to upgrade
I prefer the older touch controllers
Due to them not having a ring on the top, making them top heavy
surreal tide
I would have gotten an og rift but I was too late
gleaming grove
@twilit sage I prefer the bottom ring because I don't hit it when I cross my arms
shell zodiac
i found the og rift for 600$ is it worth it? (its a good price for where i am tbh)
soft hound
What does it come with? 2 or 3 Sensors?
soft hound
Hmm, only 2 sensors... not the best deal
void grove
Wow, that's really weird
vast salmon
Does anyone know if there are any apps on oculs quest that allow you to stream steamvr games from a pc?
sly night
RiftCat will be looking into a port to the Quest, but for now I don't see any at launch
void grove
But I should be able to pick mine up in 13 days.
Amazon?
Oh, I guess it could be different countries too.
void grove
cerulean plover
Hi
next rain
Oh yeah, I ordered it from the official Oculus website and I live in Sweden
shell zodiac
bad computer?
twilit sage
...that makes no sense
Ok look
Lay it out
You are running a VR game
the same game
On the same computer
same settings and all
Except now you're using extra CPU power to compress and send the video over to the quest wirelessly
This was his question Does anyone know if there are any apps on oculs quest that allow you to stream steamvr games from a pc?
gentle coral
I agree with @twilit sage that streaming PC games to quest is going to probably be quite bad, especially due to the very limited Qualcomm 835. Unless you can do a massive part of the processing on the PC and can attach a 802.11ad 60 Ghz transceiver to the quest and computer, you will not have low enough latency to do VR over wireless. The quest should really be using the Qualcomm 855 which meets every requirement for mobile vr to be as good as desktop if properly designed for playing some games and streaming others.
Though if they had done that the headset would be about 200 dollars more at minimum
surreal tide
I don't understand oculus' decision to lower the refresh rate to 80hz on the rift s. I get that they want to keep the minimum specs or whatever but is lowering the refresh rate so that EVERYBODY has to deal with it a better alternative to giving you the option to lower the refresh rate through software if needed?
Mixed reality gives you the option to lower the refresh rate and its minimum requirements are pretty much on a similar level as the rift, even with 1440x1440 screens
gleaming grove
I don't see ever a reason to lower a refresh rate on anything below it's maximum. Since it will always use the same number of frames if it is below the refresh rate of the screen
void sky
Does anyone have a good visualisation of the increase in FOV?
I would love some way to get an idea of 110 vs 135 vs 150 etc.
void sky
If I had to imagine it, I would guess that 110 → 135 would probably just increase your stereo vision on the edges? But I'm hoping for some semi accurate simulation or artistic interpretation of what they actually look like.
next rain
God it feels like i cant wait any longer for the vr headset to arrive 😆
twilit sage
Allright, what the fuck
I cant use Steam VR at all anymore
I launch Oculus Home, then steamVR
try and play a game, lets say Beat Saber
Steam just goes unresponsive and crashes
SteamVR stays open
Oculus CV1 btw
twilit sage
Yeah even after reinstalling Steam everything is broken
time to reinstall Oculus software
how fucking FUN
Can you skip the shitty tutorial bullshit yet?
twilit sage
Didnt even need to do it
But it seemed to fix it
Beat Saber however seems to work worse after crab rave
gentle coral
@void sky I just searched and could not find any well made fov comparison charts across a large number of headsets, I'll see if I can make one at some point, as it would be useful for game and experience developers.
All I currently can say is (meta1)< (hololense)< (Acer WMR) <(oculus rift)<(vive )< (vive pro) <(starVR) <(pimax8k). But that is from experience and not scientific data.
void sky
@gentle coral That would be awesome, please ping me if you do at some point.
Also that is good info, thanks.
@twilit sage I experienced the same problem and new problems with my CV1 (usually one every few Oculus Home updates)
Going to be a happy day when I upgrade it in 1-2 years, and unless Oculus pulls something awesome out of the hat before their competitors, I will be going with Valve's next HMD I imagine.
Mainly due to software issues I've experienced.
Either way, still love my CV1 and the VR space in general, so excited for my next HMD.
frail nebula
Why is there no Google Stadia VR?
twilit sage
how do you think that would work
We dont have the technology to have cloud VR that wont make you vomit every other second
willow panther
frail nebula
4k@30: 13000-34000kbps. Maximum RTT Latency: 1/24s
soft hound
@next rain Hmmm
next rain
👀
frail nebula
If you have really good fibre, like 15-50Mbps download, and a ping of less than 42ms, then Google Stadia for VR is Do-able
soft hound
42ms VR delay, no thanks
frail nebula
But that's ICMP ping, TCP/UDP is MUCH lower latency, like in the microseconds region. This is what really matters.
so, with a 42ms ping, that's the absolute worst case scenario, where your ISP de-prioritieses video streaming. So your RTT is going to be something like 0.01MS
void grove
I used an app called eyemeasure, that's supposed to use the iPhone X's depth sensor to calculate your IPD, and it said my near was 66 and my far was 69
frail nebula
Please don't share personal details like your IPD. Instead literally research average IPDs, and cite that.
void grove
timid flax
You make it sound like a social security number or bank info lol
"don't tell people how far apart your eyes are reported to be or they might be able to... unreliably narrow you down to just 10% of the population instead of 100%"
void grove
Yeah, not like I'm sending my facial recognition data.
Well, i also made the statement to see if it was accurate. I should probably just go to an eye doctor and get it tested, can't be that expensive.
void grove
Yeah, i heard similar things to that.
I should have a rule somewhere
If not, it's free to take a picture of one at an office supply store.
timid flax
hell, just take a picture with something of a known size
You can count pixels ¯_(ツ)_/¯
void grove
Eh, i should stop worry, i tried the rift and vive at what i assume to be the base ipd, and it was fine.
timid flax
They're also both adjustable
void grove
Yeah, but I'm getting the S, so worst thing that happens is that i have to return it from having eye strain.
timid flax
ah lol
surreal tide
lol
next rain
I'm going to measure my ipd with a ruler just incase , it's my first vr headset so I want it to be good
twilit sage
IIRC Oculus sensors work at 1000Hz or so, so no, it is quite impossible to make Stadia VR today. Nor will anyone want that.
sullen linden
sly night
did you even have to ask the question?
twilit sage
It's called excitement haha
vocal hollow
Lol I think he's VR ready
twilit sage
...because they can?
next rain
About 15 days left until my Oculus S arrives
ocean current
Noice
next rain
Yep, super excited. First vr headset I'll own
void grove
One week left.
I'm going to a Microsoft store and try their demo before I commit to buying the rift s.
surreal tide
Ooh
gleaming grove
Is there such thing as VR parties? 🤔 
surreal tide
Probably
I just had the BEST IDEA
A game like Mario party IN VR
With like minigames and stuff
void grove
Isn't there a VR game coming out soon that let's you play with friends on a phone?
Like one person is on a VR headset and everyone else is on a phone.
void grove
Oh, speaking of rift s, i still need to clear my room for a play space. D:
gentle coral
@void grove Facebook spaces can work a bit with people who are on a phone. And vrchat has a regular desktop experience for those without a headset.
@surreal tide recroom has a few minigames, as does vrchat, but I have not seen a true Mario party like game in VR, but I still have a long list of games to test
void grove
I move the steel desk that was in the middle of the room, if i clean-up what was under it, i should have a big enough play space for most games.
void grove
Wow, Google cardboard 2 was 4 years ago.
frail nebula
So do we see any issues with VR running on an external graphics card, I.E. Latency?
void grove
🤔
void grove
I went to best buy today and squeezed the padding on the rift S halo, it was so soft. 
zealous hare
someone tell the guy in #tech-chat-1 reasons to not get psvr
sullen linden
@zealous hare if he doesn’t have a gaming pc/doesn’t plan on getting one, and if the PSVR is around half the Oculus Quest price, then it’s not a terrible decision
zealous hare
he said he has the spec to get a oculus but not the space for the sensors
but i dont think the psvr is worth it tbh
void grove
soft hound
Heck yes, can't wait for the update to roll out!
void grove
Apperently, the Vive Pro is getting a slight spec tweek.
It now connects to the link box with a single cable, and the box connects to your PC with mini dp and usb 3.0
twilit sage
@frail nebula What do you mean?
frail nebula
Is there a significant difference in vr latency between an internal graphics card, and an external graphics card?
soft hound
I wouldn't assume so, I figure that it would be similar to using a PCI-E extension cable, since it is thunderbolt
Plus they are marketed as VR ready
I don't think there would be any latency
timid flax
There is definitely extra latency over TB3. It's not a ton, but it is there.
twilit sage
^
But using TB and using a GPU somewhere in a server kilometers away are two very different things
timid flax
@twilit sage Yep. Fun fact, btw, you can fit all of the input for an Oculus Rift into 100 bytes. Less, if you pack data cleverly and are okay with losing some precision (e.g. just 16 levels of depth for the trigger, instead of... however many there normally are).
I'm pretty sure, given some time, I could make a data frame that has all of the inputs, with unnoticeably little loss, that's less than 50 bytes.
gentle coral
@void grove that vive pro update seems odd, that's how it always has been for a few of the people I know who have it. Is there an article link
void grove
Oh, really?
Yeah, turns out that was a year old.
But they're selling the link box as a sperate accessory now. Even labeled as "new"
gentle coral
Well new is an overused label, some restaurants leave their grand opening sign up for years.
Now I want to play job Simulator for some reason
void grove
Fair enough
Also, the town where the Microsoft store has a higher sales tax than my nearest* best buy.
So I'm probably just going to the MS Store to try the Rift S and then go buy it at Best Buy.
gentle coral
Nice idea, I completely forgot about sales tax issues for devices like this, or financing options, (which best buy has down well.)
I actually wish I could ask for details on how many people do special finances for their vr headset.
Reminds me of an idea that I discussed with some vr developers a few years ago on the idea of financing vr headsets in a similar way to phones, so that they can cost more, and make it easier for upgrades. But it looked like it would be quite complicated at the time
twilit sage
@timid flax I was talking about the images being sent, I have no idea about tracking data.
vapid depot
is this enough for a vR headset?
surreal tide
Most definitely
I have pretty much the same specs with a 1050ti and it runs most vr games fine without tweaking
@vapid depot
Though I haven't played any games in vr lately so things might have changed
soft hound
You may want to OC the CPU, as games like VRChat can get a bit CPU intensive (I have a Ryzen 3 1300X @3.9GHz)
Runs it well though, and that GPU is way more than fine
sand swan
But is vrchat even a game 🤔
gleaming grove
@gentle coral will you be getting your hands on Vive Pro Eye to try and give us some thoughts?
void grove
No, VR Chat is a 3D chat application similar to Playstation Home.
vapid depot
@soft hound what if i replace the 1200 with a 2200?
soft hound
Not really any difference with an overclock, they perform about the same at the same clock, which is about 3.9GHz on the stock cooler @vapid depot
vapid depot
is the stock cooler enough for daily 8hr usage?
soft hound
Assuming you aren't at full load for 8 hours, yes
I've been using the stock cooler for about a year and a half now, at 3.9GHz, no issues
vapid depot
what about this?
vapid depot
probably an oculus
hexed wind
whats the total cost of the system u made im not use to that site i normaly use pcpartpicker
gritty hound
Anyone have a good argument for my parents to buy a car headset?
surreal tide
Maybe that it's good for exercising