development

[nocturne galleon]

[proper gale]

describe original problem

[nocturne galleon]

trying to find the modulename for this function

[copper ravine]

@nocturne galleon ya gotta help us help you. We have zero context for anything you are trying to do

[cinder kraken]

@nocturne galleon people can do their jobs when they know what they're working with exactly

[nocturne galleon]

we used a generator to create this function

[proper gale]

uh huh

[nocturne galleon]

question

what is this servers policy on game breaking

[proper gale]

there we go

im guessing you are making a cheat?

[nocturne galleon]

thats a presumption, I'd like to answer to my question first

[proper gale]

took you long enough to come out and say that

considering you spilled that when you posted your screenshot, saying init_cheat

im not going to help you with that, and i doubt anyone else will either

if you have specific questions about how to do something specific, do ask

[nocturne galleon]

will do

thanks

[copper ravine]

Also, I don’t know what the specific policy is on writing game cheats, but illegal activity is obviously a no-no. And i think trying to draw that line with a game cheat is pretty difficult.

[proper gale]

its probably against TOS of the game, and therefor illegal

[nocturne galleon]

well thankfully im not the one doing it

it may be against the game terms but that's not illegal

[cinder kraken]

unless you are working on a game which publicly let's download its sdk to build "expansions"

[nocturne galleon]

If some was to" sell the cheat or something and make money that might be copyright infrignment"

[proper gale]

no, its not copyright infringement to sell the cheat

thats a different clusterfuck

[nocturne galleon]

but other than that, if one were to buy and paid for the game which they are liscensing and so unless they break the terms of that liscense which this probably is its not really illegal
its about as illegal as modifying your car or something
i dont think theres any law federal or state outlawing it

[proper gale]

the terms of that license probably have that you cannot modify the game in such a way that is provides a benefit to you that could be detrimental to other players or give you a significant advantage. aka, cheating

much like how you can modify you car, except the emissions system, which needs to match OEM spec

[cinder kraken]

Not about law, but if you make enough money with that, you'll get sued

[nocturne galleon]

in that case, you'd just be jeprodising your licenses integrity

thus

not illegal

just against TOS

[proper gale]

yup, and then you are illegally using the software

[nocturne galleon]

not really if someone was to buy it

[proper gale]

breaking TOS is technically illegal, but its illegal in a very different way than other laws

[nocturne galleon]

you're violating the terms of the license

but beyond that theres not mcuh they can do besides ban that individual

[proper gale]

its illegal as in, its legally enforceable against you if you break it

[nocturne galleon]

unless they were doign it on a massive scale intentionally to hurt that companies profits or something

[cinder kraken]

why are we even discussing this

[nocturne galleon]

ask rogue

lol

[proper gale]

idfk

[nocturne galleon]

hes the one who brought it up

[cinder kraken]

Bottom line. Do it just to learn something. Don't resell it. Don't make a mess about it. The end

[nocturne galleon]

never did I say it was for money reasons

[cinder kraken]

You'll probably break TOS and no one will know

Yes you did

[nocturne galleon]

please state where

i'm waiting lol

[cinder kraken]

If some was to" sell the cheat or something and make money that might be copyright infrignment"
@nocturne galleon Probably misread now that I saw it, but still...

[nocturne galleon]

thats not me saying im using it for that reason lol

thats an example of if what the person was doing was illegal for an initial purpose

yes, you misread that lol

[copper ravine]

Aannndd we come back to where I said it would be a difficult line to draw so help with writing cheats is likely a no-no here

[nocturne galleon]

thats all I wanted to know

finally someone answered it plainly

[hasty trail]

anyone know to setup homepage in word press

[elder ivy]

what does that even mean?

[nocturne galleon]

@hasty trail sure shoot whats bugging you

[glad elm]

So does anyone know how to fix a "write-only channel" on discord?

[elder ivy]

change the permissions?

[nocturne galleon]

@glad elm channel settings

[plain cosmos]

Anyone here good with Java and can assist?

[shy helm]

Anyone here good with Java and can assist?
@plain cosmos Whats up?

[plain cosmos]

I'm confused, with class design, so I have to analyse a dataset and create basic class design and am not sure if I done it right :S

[shy helm]

Ok, can you elaborate a bit? 🙂

[plain cosmos]

I have to create a java console application, with crime data, that lets me search for appropriate data with the right condition, to even touch the code I have to be able to create classes what I don't get. if that makes sence

I have decided that I will upload the provided CSV data into a arraylist, then I have to construct and algorithm to be able to pull this data from the memory. Yet am not able to get there if I don't understand how to design a class appropriately.

[elder ivy]

what don't you understand about a class?

[plain cosmos]

How do you decide what data goes in a specific class? how do you allocate it, I understand the "pizza" idea so you have pizza, add cheese, add peperoni etc. yet am not able to analyse my dataset and be able to appropriately decide. I feel so stupid right now.

[elder ivy]

trial and error, and then later on it's experience

you can structure it in any way you'd like

and if that doesn't work out. adjust, fix, or even restart

design doesn't set anything in stone. just draw out some boxes as somewhere to start

and then fill in details of what you need the program to do

[plain cosmos]

So this is what i have come up with, when looking at my dataset, yet how do I know that it's even remotely correct!

[elder ivy]

you really can't evaluate a design without understanding the purpose of the design

I'll give you an example

you might want to structure your stuff by LSOA code if you happen to always look it up that way first. in which case you'd want a 3rd box to represent that

not sure if that makes sense because I have no idea what that is

[plain cosmos]

The purpose is to be able to search for data with a specific condition! for example "For a given crime type and LSOA, display details of all crimes, for which you have data."

[elder ivy]

sure and that's what should influence the design

you can generically structure it or you can structure it to suit your needs. that's up to you

I mean you could use a class to represent each row in the CSV. does it make it any harder or easier to do anything? no clue. though the idea is to keep stuff that should go together... together

one thing that stands out that doesn't in your CrimeData is SEP btw

[plain cosmos]

That's the hard part what goes together what does not! I can't seem to understand that. The SEP is intended to be as separator as all the data in CSV is separated by a comma. Otherwise it will read it as one long line! as much as I have read.

[shy helm]

Out of curiosity, is this for a highschool/intro level CS course?

I don't particularly mind giving advice even for school, FWIW, just wondering what level to target my explanation to 🙂

[plain cosmos]

Yes it is, before someone shoots me, am not asking anyone to do it for me. I'm just confused and my teacher are ignoring my emails.

Second year of Uni! Computer Security / Algorithm and data structures.

[shy helm]

Gotcha, no worries, anyone who tells you they did all their school work in CS by themselves is a liar 😉

[elder ivy]

😄 I did

[shy helm]

Liar!

😛

[elder ivy]

lol

solo project for days if I can

just mash stuff together in boxes, and see how various scenarios go. the rest is just experience and patterns

[shy helm]

But ye, @plain cosmos if this is for an algo/data struct class, is this more for the data structure part or the algo part? Like, do they expect you to have exceeding performant code?

To me, this seems more like a DS question, but just want to confirm

just mash stuff together in boxes, and see how various scenarios go. the rest is just experience and patterns
@elder ivy Some people in our industry take this too literally, and then you have spaghetti 😛

[elder ivy]

I mean you could reparse the CSV for each function that you expose and extract/compute what you need

😄

[shy helm]

Yeah, well if this is like a space efficiency problem you would probably have to do that lol

Or if it's big data lol

[elder ivy]

agree with avoiding spaghetti but that's more structure like a tree vs a graph. then again it might be a fully connected graph lol

[shy helm]

lolol

high cohesion low coupling 🥳

[elder ivy]

nah people throw that out in practice

everything connected to everything!

[shy helm]

😢 I know

[elder ivy]

yeah .-.

[shy helm]

People b lay z

[plain cosmos]

I have done all my assignment myself, even if i don't get the max grade I just want to understand so i actually know what am doing

this is what I have to do

In full

If anyone is free and could explain more in detail I would really appreciate it, I can pop into a voice channel

[shy helm]

@elder ivy high cohesion low coupling they said...

[elder ivy]

perfect

[shy helm]

Real UML diagram from a project I'm doin rn

lmfao

(automatically generated of course)

[elder ivy]

I don't even want to see the diagram of the stuff I'm working on lol

let's just say one library is written in Java and transpiled to JS

[shy helm]

I--that sounds atrocious

[plain cosmos]

That diagram 😮 made me jump, and than there's me with visio 😄

such an embarrassment

[winged drum]

Is this the right place to post a programming question?

[nimble drum]

Any linux guru here?

I have a bash script but it adds like %0D at the end of my "file"

[winged drum]

@nimble drum if you dont find anyone here, I found the people in the PCMR discord linux channel quite helpful

[nimble drum]

#!/bin/bash
DASHCAM_IP='192.168.207.143'

for file in $(curl http://"${DASHCAM_IP}"/blackvue_vod.cgi | sed 's/^n://' | sed 's/,s:1000000//')
do
    wget http://"${DASHCAM_IP}${file}"
done

Like throws me

https://i.imgur.com/Z8k5tuK.png

And indeed, if I go to the url with the %0D at the end, the request is invalid

[elder ivy]

%0D is the carriage return character

sed 's/\r//' it out?

[nimble drum]

well that worked lol

[nocturne galleon]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oxFkQfxSh5rnb6oGS2ufsZw0U0Lf7c8RTeESuhPK8pI/edit?usp=sharing

[nocturne galleon]

private void button3_Click(object sender, EventArgs e)
        {
           System.Diagnostics.Process.Start("The url")
        }

How to i fix this? im using visual studio 2019. When i launch the progam i get an error

Also im new to scripting

[worthy dirge]

Did you miss a semi-colon

[nocturne galleon]

Omfg

Thank you xD

Ive been wondering why I would get an error xD

[plain cosmos]

peeps, what would be the best and most simples data structure for creating a grade book? for me to be able to search by lastname?

I'm looking at merge sort, but what do you think?

[neon quiver]

@plain cosmos in what language? and is this for a production system or a school assignment?

[plain cosmos]

Uni / java

[foggy ginkgo]

I am thinking that "merge sort" is not a data structure. Usually, tabular data gets stored in multi-indexed collections. Here is my take:

• Very simple, production-grade : a directory, like AD or LDAP. I mean, that is what you wish to implement, right?
• Simple : a database table, relational, object, graph, whatever fits your need the best;
• Medium: multiple Map-like collections, B-trees or similar if possible. One per "index", that is a key from which you can filter and sort your contents. Read from the most appropriate, Write to all of them. A wink to those who know the implications of that solution.

[neon quiver]

that was my thought as well; get a database that'll take care of indexing the data for you and then just query it. I've never used AD or LDAP as a database before so I wouldn't have any hints there, but as far as databases are concerned, any RDBMS would work just fine, if you already know how your data will be accessed you could also go NoSQL with a column-wide store like Cassandra or DynamoDB

if you end implementing the data struct yourself, B-trees are a must as @foggy ginkgo mentioned, also worth looking into RB-trees (self-balancing b-trees) I know they're often used in databases

[plain cosmos]

Thank @foggy ginkgo @neon quiver for the in-depth explanation 🙂

[cloud knot]

anyone in need for own google sheets ? https://github.com/mengshukeji/Luckysheet 😄

[errant raptor]

can anyone help me with my discord bot i keep getting an error code

dont mind my incredible edit skills

const Discord = require('discord.js');

const client = new Discord.Client();

const prefix = '!';

client.once('ready', () => {
console.log('Minum50bot is online!');
});

client.on('message', message =>{
if(!message.content.startsWith(prefix) || message.author.bot ) return;

const args = message.content.slice(prefix.length).split("   ");
const command = args.shift().toLowerCase();

if(command === 'hoi'){;
    message.channel.send('Hallo!');
    break;

}
};

client.login('and ofcourse the token here');

this is all i have

[deep scarab]

shouldn't you be running that with node?

[elder ivy]

o.O

why did you double click it?

[cloud knot]

yup, WSH certainly can't run node scripts 🙂

[errant raptor]

shouldn't you be running that with node?
@deep scarab i fixed it by starting bot with node . but still thanks

SyntaxError: await is only valid in async function
 at wrapSafe (internal/modules/cjs/loader.js:1053:16)
 at Module._compile (internal/modules/cjs/loader.js:1101:27)
 at Object.Module._extensions..js (internal/modules/cjs/loader.js:1157:10)
 at Module.load (internal/modules/cjs/loader.js:985:32)
 at Function.Module._load (internal/modules/cjs/loader.js:878:14)
 at Function.executeUserEntryPoint [as runMain] (internal/modules/run_main.js:71:12)
 at internal/main/run_main_module.js:17:47

what does this exactly mean?

im basicly copy pasting code from the internet

to get music bot to work

const songInfo = await ytdl.getInfo(result);
const song = {
title: songInfo.title,
url: songInfo.video_url

this code has await in it but it isnt a function i think

try {
var connection = await voiceChannel.join();
queueContruct.connection = connection;
play(message.guild, queueContruct.songs[0]);
} catch (err) {
console.log(err);
queue.delete(message.guild.id);
return message.channel.send(err);
}

found this one

const res = await ytsr(msg,options);
result = await res.items[0].link;

so if anyone knows how it works please say it

its my first time actually coding a discord bot

okay the async error is gone

now i have an const errow

error*

[foggy ginkgo]

I do not believe it is wise to develop a bot by copy-pasting code from the Internet. Your are potentially putting yourself and your users at risk.
I recommend reading JavaScript and Node tutorials for the moment.

[errant raptor]

i did

and at one tutorial i got 5 errors

why is it dangerous tho?

also only the code for the music is copy pasted

i did the commands i have rn by myself

[foggy ginkgo]

What if some piece of code seemingly fixes your issue but writes exceedingly to your file system or strangely uses up too much CPU? What if some recommended dependency ends up sending your server logs to someone else's property? Copying code without fully understanding its full extent may subject you and your users to less pleasant surprises.

[errant raptor]

oh

then imma remove the code and try getting music to work later

as i' ve been really struggeling with this for the past hour

[foggy ginkgo]

Let's start simple, then ;)

[errant raptor]

how?

i removed the code i copied

and ended up with my boring commands 😦

[foggy ginkgo]

Do you have some kind of Code Versioning System in place somewhere?

[errant raptor]

i use node.js if thats what u meant

wait no

[foggy ginkgo]

I meant Git or SVN 🙂

[errant raptor]

the visual studio thing i mean

oh

well i dont know what that means lol

i just started coding yesterday

and when my bot said hi back to me i felt genius so thats basicly all i know

[foggy ginkgo]

Oh! Then welcome to the world of development! Every piece of code will be difficult but equally satisfying once complete 😜

[errant raptor]

😄

i know it was 3am when i made my bot say hello back to me lol

so i was happy

that i finally could rest

[foggy ginkgo]

First, I would like to introduce you to what you would typically learn if you were a backend developer. The skills on the following web page are equivalent to those you would need to grow your bot today and in the future. Yes, developing is not just about code!
https://roadmap.sh/backend

[errant raptor]

i know im going to study software and developing 🙂

but rn i only want to know how code works and im not seeking to actually learn alot at the moment

so what i mean with that i want to make a discord bot that can do a few little things

but i think it playing music is hard to do as i expect /kick /ban to be harder

i already know how permissions works

and how he can respond to things

[foggy ginkgo]

Actually, nothing is too difficult once you know how it operates behind the scenes. Keep the link somewhere safe, you will need it someday ;)
I suggest prioritizing your features by difficulty and skimming JavaScript docs in search for the best way to implement them. For instance, right now, I would read everything there is about const , let and var and about async/await. You will need these concepts very soon.

Once you are done with these, you will need Promise and then fetch.

[errant raptor]

So basicly i need to know what a code does

[foggy ginkgo]

Bull's-eye!

[errant raptor]

Thanks but am i gonna need all that for a discord music bot? Or do you have any good suggestions on how to make it?

[foggy ginkgo]

Why would you like to create your own music bot? I mean, what is the reason? Is it for the challenge of it or because you cannot find one that perfectly fits your needs?

[errant raptor]

Well i actually want to know how it works to make my discord bot fun to use with me and my friends like i can get dank memer rythm or mee6 to fullfill all my needs but i think its more fun to create something thats from u

With rythm i cant just add things but with my own i can customize it however i want if i know how to

[foggy ginkgo]

And so you set yourself to experiment with the creation of said bot. Well, that is a healthy reason, I like it 😉
Unfortunately, developing is not as fast and simple as copying code and snapping fingers. It is all about the journey, not the destination.

Can you tell I have been a developer / engineer for more than ten years? 😄

[errant raptor]

Pretty much xD

I hope that in 10 years i will have enough knowledge of coding ti be able to help someone

[foggy ginkgo]

You will, I am positive about that.

[errant raptor]

And what i've learned already is that after u change ur code u have to test it i've had enough Times that one second it worked and the other second the bot just dies

And i should may copy paste my files so i have a back up

[foggy ginkgo]

Oh, you will be in for a treat when you will learn about Test Driven Development and Code Versioning Systems in a few weeks!

The first implies that you write your tests before the code. The tests define your expectations and initially fail, the code must pass the tests. <- Tests can be automated
The second is a clean way to version your code, to collaborate, parallelize development, automate some tasks, etc.

[copper ravine]

Def learn how to use git

[errant raptor]

So its like biology? U have expectations and ur testing that if it works?

[foggy ginkgo]

Yes! Here is an example:

• I would like to create a function that squares a number so I expect that f(0) = 0, f(2) = 4;
• I write a function f : x -> x * 2, my tests all pass and call it a day;
• Someone uses the function and notices that f(5) = 10?!
• I add new tests: f(5) = 25 and f(3) = 9;
• I fix my function: f : x -> x * x, my tests all pass;
• The person that uses the function is now satisfied with the result.

If I have to modify this function in the future and a test breaks, I know I did something wrong.

[errant raptor]

Ah

Well for my bot i think in first going to try something more easy

[foggy ginkgo]

Of course, what I presented is a best practice you may come across in a few months or years. I have never seen anyone using it on a daily basis.

[copper ravine]

Taking existing code and modifying it is a great way to experiment and learn how something works

Just taking an existing piece of code and getting it to compile and run will give you the critical skills you need to develop your own code

[foggy ginkgo]

Chicken and egg problem: when would you need to learn about the technologies that you are experimenting with?

[copper ravine]

How do you mean?

[foggy ginkgo]

If I never learned about the technology, I cannot experiment with random code found on the Web.

The opposite is true so it is not so much a chicken and egg problem. I still believe you need some basics before you commit to experimenting, though.

[copper ravine]

By experimenting I mean (for this case) to go find a bot that plays music and figure out how to get the code, compile it and run it (ie one needs to find a bot whose code is documented well enough with instructions on how to get going). Then once you have that working, one can start reading and modifying that bot code (“experimenting”)

[errant raptor]

I was not able to find one yet

But i thought about that

Thats what i used to do when i tried html

I took code from one site

And used it on another to create my own site in inspect element

[copper ravine]

I know of several examples that show how to play music (discord bots though). Or maybe have a look for bot code that responds to commands and start there

(Just searched for “discord music bot example” and the first result was a tutorial on how to create a music bot with JS)

[errant raptor]

I've followed those but it ended up being confusing and i had 5 errors

[copper ravine]

Then as I suggested, perhaps a more basic example might be better

Another option is to find a beginners tutorial that starts with the basics. Personally I like to start with something close to what I want and then learn how to modify it to do what I want

[vestal ledge]

anyone here who knows c# tag me

[obtuse night]

@vestal ledge

[vestal ledge]

hi

[obtuse night]

hello

[vestal ledge]

can you explain to me what "if (_closing) return;" does in this code https://pastebin.com/bycq6ckq

[obtuse night]

the code in the pastebin seems like a small extract. somewhere else in the code will be a boolean called _closing and when this is true, the code stops running this private function. the return just exits this function

sorry, i dont know how much you know about c#. if any parts arent explained well, let me know

[vestal ledge]

ill send you the whole code

https://pastebin.com/mL94RhqZ

does if (_closing) return; stop the code below it from running?

[obtuse night]

exactly but only when the boolean on line 14 is true

[vestal ledge]

oh okay

i want to come up with a new name for that bool

i dont like _closing

i want a more explaining

[obtuse night]

isClosing ?

[vestal ledge]

Sure, i just dont understand why it has closing in the name

the code is my homework to understand and rewrite

[obtuse night]

the program will eventually need to be "closed" when the program exits. that boolean only changes to true when the server is stopping, causing shutdown scripts to run

or in this case, just stopping other scripts from running

[vestal ledge]

ohh

ill just rename it to isRunning

[obtuse night]

then you'll need to swap true to false

[vestal ledge]

yeah

[obtuse night]

and if (!isRunning) return;

[vestal ledge]

the weird thing is that it doent change

i mean

it sets _closing = true

never to false

[obtuse night]

its false by default

[vestal ledge]

oh i now how it works now

know*

ill name it to isClosing like u said

my teached made the code hard to understand

[obtuse night]

sockets still confuse me to this day. i always steer clear of them

[vestal ledge]

yeah they are confusing

i need to learn them tho

anyways thanks fo rthe help

[obtuse night]

np

[vestal ledge]

@obtuse night do you know what the buffer size does

i mean what changes if i set it to 8192

[obtuse night]

i believe its how much data you can send at a time

but not 100% sure

[vestal ledge]

oh yeah its prob that

iill just set it to 8192 instead of 2048

instead of if(isClosing) return;

i can just do like

if(!isClosing) {

code here

}

right?

[obtuse night]

that would work

[vestal ledge]

nice

then i understand it better

[vestal ledge]

@obtuse night my code is done https://pastebin.com/ZQ0gPchV

I like it better than the one my teacher made

https://pastebin.com/mL94RhqZ

[gloomy granite]

Hey, I'm making a website and I want to put text next to an image. When I make the font of the text bigger it pushes the image to the side because it cant overlap. Is there anyway I can make part of the text overlap the image?

[elder ivy]

how are you supposed to call anything if it's all private @vestal ledge

also pulling the public ip from a website seems like a bad idea. makes too many assumptions

[obtuse night]

rather than pulling the ip from a website, i'd just use local ip addresses which you can get using an inbuilt functions. External ip addresses would mean you need to port forward in order to access it

[vestal ledge]

@elder ivy @obtuse night I dont need to access anything since its a server where clients can connect to and send and recive information. It should be a public ip so you need to port forward and the website im using is a website made for giving the public ip to code. The server is for a game a program im making so not a server people can download

[elder ivy]

Making your random code exposed to the actual internet seems like a bad idea if you're just learning still o.o

[vestal ledge]

It's ok only people who has my ip can connect to it and my client will send a specific code to the server

and if the connected client doesnt send that code it will be kicked

and all info will be encrypted

So

Hello = SGVsbG8=

[errant raptor]

does anyone know what they mean with i can only use await in async

[errant raptor]

got rid of the async thing of adding " async" somewhere

but now i cant use any commands

[obtuse night]

wdym you cant use any commands? language?

[errant raptor]

javascript

and when i use as example .help

i get a whole line of text

and when i do .play and then music url

its says

" cannot acces queue before initialization

[obtuse night]

going off of c# here, but try .result.help or .result.play

[errant raptor]

i am talking about discord bot commands

[elder ivy]

you can think of async/await as syntatctic sugar for using promises @errant raptor

you have a code snippet you need help with?

[errant raptor]

well im trying to get a music bot to work

client.on('message', async message =>{

[elder ivy]

does it expect an async function?

[errant raptor]

if i do that without async the bot doesnt start

[elder ivy]

okay

so it needs to be an async function

[errant raptor]

yes

[elder ivy]

or a function that returns a promise...

I mean I'd just check the APIs of "client"

[errant raptor]

and when i add async everything works at first but when i do commands it just doesnt

[elder ivy]

ok?

[errant raptor]

const client = new Discord.Client();

const ytdl = require('ytdl-core');

these are api' s right?

im really new to coding

so i dont understand every term

async function execute(message, serverQueue) {

imma just send the whole piece of code

and see if someone can fix it

[elder ivy]

o.O

[errant raptor]

client.on('message', async message =>{
if(!message.content.startsWith(prefix) || message.author.bot ) return;

const args = message.content.slice(prefix.length).split("   ");
const command = args.shift().toLowerCase();

const serverQueue = queue.get(message.guild.id);

if(message.content.startsWith(`${prefix}play`)) 
{execute(message, serverQueue);
    return;
}else if (message.content.startsWith(`${prefix}skip`)) {
    skip(message, serverQueue);
    return;
}else if (message.content.startsWith(`${prefix}stop`)) {
    stop(message, serverQueue);
} else {
    message.channel.send("you need to enter a valid commant! do .help for more info!");
}

const queue = new Map();

async function execute(message, serverQueue) {
    const args = message.content.split(" ");
  
    const voiceChannel = message.member.voice.channel;
    if (!voiceChannel)
      return message.channel.send(
        "You need to be in a voice channel to play music!"
      );
    const permissions = voiceChannel.permissionsFor(message.client.user);
    if (!permissions.has("CONNECT") || !permissions.has("SPEAK")) {
      return message.channel.send(
        "I need the permissions to join and speak in your voice channel!"
      );
    }
  }

  const songInfo = await ytdl.getinfo(args[1]);
  const song = {
      title: songInfo.title,
      url: songInfo.video_url,
  };

  if (!serverQueue) {
  }else {
      serverQueue.song.push(song);
      console.log(serverQueue.songs);
      return message.channel.send(`${song.title} has been added to the queue!!!`);
  }

first part

[elder ivy]

use ```

for code blocks

[errant raptor]

can you explain to me what you mean with that?

where do i need to put ``` for code block?

[elder ivy]

I mean surround your text with ``` so that it formats the text in discord

in any case what's the question?

[errant raptor]

well i basicly want music and commands to work

[elder ivy]

I don't see what this has to do with async/await? I mean you could just remove the async in both places above

[errant raptor]

const songInfo = await ytdl.getinfo(args[1]);

the code has await in it

[elder ivy]

oh okay didn't see it

yes you need async in that case

[errant raptor]

but when i use that my commands simply wont work

[elder ivy]

your code is a jumbled mess, have you tried just copying the source in it's entirety?

it's just the one at the bottom of this isn't it? https://gabrieltanner.org/blog/dicord-music-bot

[errant raptor]

it is

but i have more commands in it

[elder ivy]

okay but try to see if it works exactly the way you found it first

[errant raptor]

alright

ill have to make a second bot then

[elder ivy]

I mean best to prove it can actually work first. maybe the code itself is already outdated or something

[foggy ginkgo]

@elder ivy For the context, we had a productive conversation earlier today about Discord bots.

[elder ivy]

oh?

[errant raptor]

ye he explained some things to me

and i almost got the bot to work

[elder ivy]

run a debugger in that case

from my point of view you had mostly the same code, but didn't know what was going on with it

so start by understanding how it was supposed to work. but make sure it is supposed to work first

[foggy ginkgo]

Well, that's the thing… @errant raptor is just starting out with JS development. And development in general, correct?

[elder ivy]

Learning by reading code isn't necessarily a bad thing

[errant raptor]

yep

[elder ivy]

Read it, execute it line by line, understand what it's supposed to be doing and ask questions/research

[errant raptor]

but i think discord bots are really advanced to begin with thats what i got told atleast

[elder ivy]

I mean the complexity is probably that it's events and possibly async code. Those are usually a bit harder to wrap your head around at first

[foggy ginkgo]

I wonder if there are good web-based interactive JS or even better TS courses out there. What is better than a web browser to execute JavaScript?

[errant raptor]

like the only thing i need actually right now is an solution to how i can get rid of those async problems

[elder ivy]

I mean the other thing you can try is to just output debugging info

If you can't work a debugger

Ie print text and see what it does

[foggy ginkgo]

I'm sensing console.debug overdose 😄

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Console/debug

[elder ivy]

lol

I mean I would have just used console.log and then deleted it

[foggy ginkgo]

Not edgy enough 😝

Like, look, nobody uses debugger; even though it is so cool! https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Statements/debugger

[elder ivy]

eh I use that

makes not having to dig for files easier

especially when stuff like source maps aren't playing nice

[foggy ginkgo]

My devs use console.log exclusively 😥

[elder ivy]

lol

[foggy ginkgo]

If only you knew the sheer amount of smelly code I come across every day. It's a chance I can focus on Cloud and CI/CD tasks most of the time.

[elder ivy]

I mean that's not to say I don't work in a dumpster fire at times

there's no such thing as perfect code

[errant raptor]

const { prefix, token } = require("./config.json"); do i need to put at token the prefix i want?

[foggy ginkgo]

Tech debt has been a debate for generations, after all. But still, there is such a thing as acceptable code. Pleasant to read and modify.

[errant raptor]

little bit confused as im trying another bot rn

[elder ivy]

A token prefix?

It's just reading the token variable from the config.js

[errant raptor]

oke

i did remove all the updates i did

and have a bot i am testing everything on rn

[elder ivy]

https://twitter.com/ctrlshifti/status/1290968510521196544

Kat Maddox (@ctrlshifti)

Is it better to indent your code from left to right or right to left? Been hearing different opinions

Retweets

1308

Likes

9053

Twitter

[midnight pond]

lol

[wheat magnet]

did some actually...

[real leaf]

so... dose any one here ... know c++ spesificly ... sets and pairs

[round dome]

What do you want to dose people with? You don't have to tell me to know c++ I already do.

[real leaf]

What do you want to dose people with? You don't have to tell me to know c++ I already do.
@round dome hmmm .... sooo ... you know c++ ???

[round dome]

ya

[real leaf]

right soo ... how do you find a pair in a set of pairs ... : set<pair<int, int>> st;

[round dome]

using find?

[real leaf]

ye if its possible

[round dome]

no I'm telling you to use find

[real leaf]

i tryed it ... the end result is a wall of error

[round dome]

then you're doing it wrong

[real leaf]

hmmm ... can you help me more

gimi a moment let me copy past

yep past thats a word

[round dome]

don't focus on your past focus on the present

[real leaf]

 50                         if (path.find(make_pair(u, v)) != path.end() || path.find(make_pair(u, v)) != path.end()) {

im basicly cheking if u and v is an edge in the path that i have

don't focus on your past focus on the present
@round dome wish it be that easy thou

[round dome]

am I supposed to guess the rest of the code

[real leaf]

... i think it would be better if i send the file

n3n3 you there m8 ??

[gloomy granite]

anyone know css?

[round dome]

You're trying to find a pair in a set of ints

[real leaf]

o dont tell me

f me

welp

thank you

[gloomy granite]

guys pls

i need help

[real leaf]

sry dont know css ....

[gloomy granite]

aw man

welp

thx anyways

[real leaf]

ama go die l8r

[gloomy granite]

ok

good luck

[shy helm]

https://twitter.com/ctrlshifti/status/1290968510521196544
@elder ivy This is so triggering lmfao

Kat Maddox (@ctrlshifti)

Is it better to indent your code from left to right or right to left? Been hearing different opinions

Retweets

1843

Likes

12610

Twitter

[elder ivy]

😄

[elder ivy]

...why don't you

delete it.

[feral quarry]

@shy helm what are you talking about thats perfect

[torn whale]

Hey Guys, I have a WordPress website where if I downgrade the PHP version it works fine but as soon as I update it to the latest version it starts giving out ERROR 500.

[nocturne galleon]

does anyone know how to use if and else in python?

[fiery zephyr]

does anyone know how to use if and else in python?
@nocturne galleon https://www.w3schools.com/js/js_if_else.asp

[nocturne galleon]

thx

[fiery zephyr]

i know

np

learing python ?

@nocturne galleon

[nocturne galleon]

yeah

first day

[fiery zephyr]

oh nice

how old are you

[nocturne galleon]

13.11

[fiery zephyr]

13 ?

[nocturne galleon]

yeah

11 months

[fiery zephyr]

i am 14

[nocturne galleon]

nice

[fiery zephyr]

i also learned python when i was 13

[nocturne galleon]

is it easy?

[fiery zephyr]

yea

[nocturne galleon]

cool

[serene turret]

hi guys

I'm building a discord bot and it's almost done but i would like to add some extra stuff

do you have any ideas?

[neon quiver]

I like to add a mini web server in there to expose metrics, so that I can know when my bot has problems

depends on where you'll be hosting the bot

[serene turret]

For now it's running on my pc whenever I run tests

But do you have any ws that you would recommend?

[neon quiver]

I mean express just works and is incredibly well-documented and you can just add like 8 lines of code to your bot and you're done

[serene turret]

thanks

[delicate tendon]

@nocturne galleon

[serene turret]

Does anyone knows how to run a bot automatically in azure? Plz tag me if you know

[plain cosmos]

can anyone explain what this code is doing exactly please?

[vestal glen]

it mostly returns false

[tidal osprey]

so im trying to make a discord bot and i keep getting the same error and i dont know what it means

"[INFO] launcher: Starting sanity checks
[INFO] launcher: Checking for Python 3.5+
[INFO] launcher: Checking console encoding
[INFO] launcher: Setting console encoding to UTF-8
[INFO] launcher: Ensuring we're in the right environment
[INFO] launcher: Adding local bins/ folder to path
[INFO] launcher: Required checks passed.
[INFO] launcher: Optional checks passed.
[INFO] launcher: Moving old musicbot log
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "run.py", line 438, in <module>
main()
File "run.py", line 347, in main
finalize_logging()
File "run.py", line 179, in finalize_logging
dlh.setFormatter(logging.Formatter('.'))
File "C:\Users\Jayden\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python38\lib\logging_init_.py", line 576, in init
self.style.validate()
File "C:\Users\Jayden\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python38\lib\logging_init.py", line 429, in validate
raise ValueError("Invalid format '%s' for '%s' style" % (self._fmt, self.default_format[0]))
ValueError: Invalid format '.' for '%' style"

[neon quiver]

@serene turret no experience with Azure, more of an AWS guy, but if you're looking for the simplest way to host a bot online, i'd suggest Netlify, it integrates really well with github and is arguably the easiest to set up

[elder ivy]

@plain cosmos it's doing a deep comparison to see whether the object passed in is "equal" in data

[plain cosmos]

Thanks 🙂

[frail jewel]

@plain cosmos that code you linked just spams ifstatements and gives you autism

thats what it does

[plain cosmos]

@frail jewel very "helpful" information 🙂

[frail jewel]

well its shit code, its very easy to understand and its an example of what you shouldn't do, you should try to avoid if statements where they aren't needed and with a managed language spamming if statements is even worse.

[elder ivy]

What?

How else do you compare two objects for equality? @frail jewel

I mean yes it can be written differently too but I don't see your point

[frail jewel]

actually there is a great video exactly for this.

1 sec

fuck, i cant find it, it was a rant about how yandere dev should improve his code. so the sample code is either c# or java or another managed language, you can store values in enumerators in a lot of cases (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.collections.ienumerator?view=netcore-3.1) and using switch functions is also very useful for constantly if and else statements, it is a lot more optimized and doesn't look like someone decided to take a massive shit on your screen (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/language-reference/keywords/switch). thats just 2 ways to optimize it. we dont even know if this guy is looping this check every second or hell every frame to preform these checks.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.collections.ienumerator?view=netframework-4.7.2 the enumerator link in the first one is to .net core. this is for .net framework

[elder ivy]

Ok?

[frail jewel]

https://github.com/ktaranov/naming-convention/blob/master/C%23 Coding Standards and Naming Conventions.md also this is a great way to improve the quality of your programs source and in some cases even make it more optimized, if you want to publish your source you would probably want to follow these guidelines.

[elder ivy]

The dude just asked what it does not if it's good or best practice

Nor did it call for any rude remarks

[frail jewel]

i didn't insult him, i insulted the code, it wasn't his code. he was trying to learn from some really disgustingly bad code. thats how you burn in really bad practices into your memory.

[elder ivy]

not knowing why you need a solution before using it is a software pitfall

[tidal osprey]

could someone help me make a javascript discord bot so that when you say "insert word here" the bot responds with "insert response here"

this is what i have so far

 
const bot = new Eris(process.env.DISCORD_BOT_TOKEN);
 
bot.on('ready', () => {
    console.log('Ready!');
});
 
bot.on('messageCreate', (msg) => {
    if(msg.content.includes('69')) {
        bot.createMessage(msg.channel.id, 'nice ;)');
    }
});
  
bot.connect();```

[elder ivy]

that's not python o.O

[tidal osprey]

i mean not python

java script

i have the bot working i just want to add more responses

[elder ivy]

what's the problem?

[tidal osprey]

i want more responses

but im noob and dont know how

[elder ivy]

start by learning javascript

[tidal osprey]

i would rather i didnt

[elder ivy]

then throw it all out

because that's as far as you'll get

[tidal osprey]

ok

ill try to learn then

[vestal glen]

what kind of error?

[lean fossil]

Anyone here use AWS? I've been noticing a lot of issues with t3a instances this last month or so. We use spot instances for our web server cluster, and for the last several weeks AWS has been killing them off (reportedly) due to capacity issues. I'd had to switch over to the slightly more expensive t3 instances.

Wondering if anyone has noticed anything similar.

[foggy ginkgo]

You might want to use at least 20% (min 1) of on-demand instances and 80% of spot in that scenario so that your cluster never stops. Anyway, Spot is for short-lived or interruptible workloads and there is no garantee of capacity. In fact, the same occurs with On-Demand unless you use capacity reservations which might be convenient for workloads present in the long term.

[lean fossil]

I've actually have had great luck with pure spot up until about 3 weeks ago. Sure, we've had an instance killed every blue moon, but we have our auto-scale group split between enough availability zones that it wasn't a problem before.

Now suddenly we can't get a t3a instance that lasts more than 24 hours.

[foggy ginkgo]

Either they play fair and are close to their capacity limit for t3a.xxx, either they are nudging you into purchasing On-Demand. Since there is no way to retrieve stats other than the price history, I will leave this to open interpretation.

[lean fossil]

Yeah, that's what I am trying to judge. So far everything is fine on t3 instances, so if they really were trying to get us off of spot altogether that hasn't been consistent. Could just be that the cheaper t3a instances are what they don't want people sitting on for weeks at a time.

[neon quiver]

yeah you should really have at least one instance either on-demand or provisionned, spot instances can be terminated at any moment

[foggy ginkgo]

You actually receive a warning two minutes before the instance is terminated. This also goes with their ECS and EKS offerings.

[prime pine]

kjjj

javashit

chad Rust

https://rocket.rs/

chad as chad

[foggy ginkgo]

Far from production-ready for web. You might as well be using Artanis at that point: https://web-artanis.com/

[prime pine]

awesome

GNU

ar u from the GNU bois ?

[neon quiver]

@foggy ginkgo 2 minutes prior gives enough time for your server to cleanly exit or for your load balancer to redirect load to other instances, but its waaaay too short for a human to react to

[nocturne galleon]

anyone know a curses crate for rust

[prime pine]

read the book

[upbeat nymph]

Anyone know any good FFI libraries for NodeJS? Looking to offload some functions to Rust and want a way to easily communicate with it. Also, never really used FFI but I was reading that it can actually have pretty major downsides...any thoughts on that?

[neon quiver]

there's a decent exemple on the node-ffi repo : https://github.com/node-ffi/node-ffi/tree/master/example/factorial

you can replace C with Rust, as long as you compile down to a .so

[upbeat nymph]

My concern is that the library is unmaintained. 195 issues open (although most seem to be stupid help questions) and 19 PRs. Last update was like 2 years ago.
Was looking at this: https://github.com/bengl/sbffi but I'm not sure if it will take Rust so or if it's just C.
Maybe to fall back on: https://www.npmjs.com/package/ffi-napi

[neon quiver]

Node's internals are pretty stable at this point, probably why the library hasn't been updated in a while

[upbeat nymph]

Ohh, I see what it is: https://nodejs.org/api/n-api.html#n_api_n_api

Apparently NAPI is the goto now

I need to read into node's internals more.

[neon quiver]

Have you tried simply compiling to wasm? it's not a perfect solution, sometimes the perf gains are negligible, but in some cases it can be more than good enough, and its much easier to implement

[upbeat nymph]

Oh hm...honestly I've never used WASM before. In theory, this is what I'm doing. I'm going to simulate lets say about 100 messages a second, but I know NodeJS won't be able to keep up and won't be powerful enough alone to handle looking through each message and determining what's allowed and not. So I'm looking to offload that to a library that's closer to a system language. Which is why I'm looking at using this. Could WASM still allow this to be accomplished?

[neon quiver]

for CPU intensive workloads, yeah it can be a real perf booster, for I/O intensive workloads, honestly you'll have a hard time beating what Node gives you out of the box

[upbeat nymph]

Here’s my general plan. I want to tinker with the idea of building a highly scalable Discord bot capable of handling hundreds to thousands of messages a second (in theory). There’s gonna he limitations that NodeJS has simply because it’s not compiled, it’s running on an underlying engine. Unless there’s a general/fundamental concept I’m misunderstanding which is a real possibility being self taught. I’ve built plenty of bots, written entire frameworks around them. Libraries are semi-easy for me (I work in TypeScript almost exclusively now). But FFI and WASM are new concepts to me. Now this specific module will handle the message that determines if it’s in violation of any rules such as links, repeating characters, multiple punctuations, etc and even handle if it’s “spamming” messages multiple times in a row by them or multiple users. So I’m trying to think of others ways I can handle and manage that outside of NodeJS so I can optimize it to its fullest potential or even a way to test it to see which performs better under ridiculous circumstances.

[frail jewel]

@upbeat nymph build a c++ server

i have never used webasm but if its anything like x86 asm then coding in it wont be the easiest thing but it would be actually really fun to work on something like that but when you want to do something like that which specialises with handling data you probably dont want to do it in a website but to build an entire server on the host which is specialised to handle so much data and sort through it how you want it to

there should be quite a few c++ discord bots for linux hosts and plenty of c++ servers meant for filtering through data, browse through github and see what people have done and you can probably learn a few things and snag some of their code. using a really high level and slow language to sort through loads of data is normally not a good idea, there are some java based languages which are specifically made to sort through data from what i have been told.

there will more then likely be easier ways but making your own server would be pretty fun.

[upbeat nymph]

@frail jewel That’s why I’m leaning towards rust for data handling. Let Node handle events, Discord, etc and let individual modules handle the data which would also give me the ability to update individual modules as well. What I’m wondering now that you’re saying server is, would it be better in your opinion to start a web server and use local requests or use something like FFI and create share libraries? I naturally lean towards web servers as a web developer but I’m hoping to learn more about what other people suggest and have experience with. Also, leaning towards Rust for this stuff because Rust is almost as fast if not faster in some cases than C++ and is safer but still can be compiled to system language easy.

Sorry. On mobile so hard to type fast haha

[neon quiver]

the case of discord bots is interesting, in my opinion, you would acheive waaaay better results by using message buses from any public could provider and treating those heavier rules asynchronously.

The nodejs bot then simply becomes the entrypoint for messages and you can lean on its event loop to handle the resolution of that async action really well, in a way that will scale very well

TL;DR: move the compute intensive parts elsewhere and have your bot pass messages using a message bus

[frail jewel]

what i mean by a server is an application on your webhost which manages requests and processes the data.

so your bot made in nodejs can just get the information and communicate with the server and send packets containing the data and then that can be processed purely by the server and then sent back to the bot to give a response to the user oooor it can be stored on the server in a database, how ever you want to handle it. just moving all the processing to an external machine which is running a server made in a faster language than nodejs which can process the data faster and also communicate with your client.

[upbeat nymph]

That's what I was trying to describe, maybe I didn't word it well enough

But message bus...hm..I mean, I guess adding that too the idea list...here's what I currently have on my mind.

• All in NodeJS
• FFI with some library
• WASM
• Create a webserver in a system language and NodeJS communicates with it
• Message bus (have to look at this more, just glanced at https://node-ts.github.io/bus/ really quick to get an idea)

[neon quiver]

I really like AWS SQS: you don't have to set up any server, you just tell aws you want a queue and it gives you one

[upbeat nymph]

I have used SQS before, it is nice.

[neon quiver]

I love it, it's gotta be the simplest and most reliable queueing service I've used

[upbeat nymph]

But, that could get expensive.

lol

[neon quiver]

the first million request per month is free 🤷‍♂️ and then it's $0.40 USD per million message

[upbeat nymph]

oh

huh

[neon quiver]

I've used it on global systems that handled millions of messages every day and it cost us so little it got put in the "other" category of our aws bill

[upbeat nymph]

Oh, hmmm. I guess pricing changed? Has it changed recently?

[neon quiver]

not recently no, or at least I don't think so, as far as I can remember that's always been the pricing

[upbeat nymph]

Maybe I'm thinking something else, it's been about 3 years since I've used it

[neon quiver]

Kinesis Streams are pretty expensive, that may be the one your thinking about

[upbeat nymph]

Maybe. I can't remember to be honest; but still I guess what it is coming down to is how I could utilize SQS to complete the task.

Because I have an entry point, and a exit. The result must be returned to the NodeJS application

That's where there may be some issues

Because it will return a series of flags, in theory, of what it detects if any detection is applicable.

God I love that I finally joined the LTT server, finally people I can talk to about this shit

So general flow:

Discord Event (message) -> NodeJS Application -> Internal module in NodeJS app -> Sends message to external application/library

Library: Obtains message -> Determine based on configuration what to detect -> Scan through message and set flags accordingly -> Respond back to NodeJS app with flag list

Flags being like VIOLATION_URL, etc. and the NodeJS application would handle the flags and taking action on the message/user

Unless someone else can think of a better way to handle it?

[neon quiver]

I'd be really curious to see how Node would perform on its own for your use case, discord.js is built on top of the std websockets and event emitters libraries which are pretty damn efficient at this point

maybe some benchmarking could give you an answer. In my experience, simpler systems tend to be more performant than complex systems, no matter the language its written in

[upbeat nymph]

I'm leaning towards Eris tbh, I use DiscordJS but there's so much overhead out of the box....at minor levels and such, they really aren't different...but the moment you need something custom, or need to make a change...DJS has abstractions on abstractions that I heard make it so hard to customize.

I guess what I really need to do is write the same detection in all options just to see.

And run it from Node because that would translate to real world

[shy helm]

So general flow:

Discord Event (message) -> NodeJS Application -> Internal module in NodeJS app -> Sends message to external application/library

Library: Obtains message -> Determine based on configuration what to detect -> Scan through message and set flags accordingly -> Respond back to NodeJS app with flag list

Flags being like VIOLATION_URL, etc. and the NodeJS application would handle the flags and taking action on the message/user
@upbeat nymph is there a reason why you can’t just use REST for this?

[upbeat nymph]

Well, that's on the list to test

[neon quiver]

Eris does seem to use a similar structure to manage incoming messages

[upbeat nymph]

It's on of the options

[shy helm]

That sort of async communication is hard to connect back together

[upbeat nymph]

But message bus...hm..I mean, I guess adding that too the idea list...here's what I currently have on my mind.

• All in NodeJS
• FFI with some library
• WASM
• Create a webserver in a system language and NodeJS communicates with it
• Message bus (have to look at this more, just glanced at https://node-ts.github.io/bus/ really quick to get an idea)
  Earlier

[shy helm]

Unless you have the sender just listening and scanning the entire response buffer

[upbeat nymph]

Just added a list of stuff that people suggested for it

[shy helm]

Easier way to do this is to use a message bus to send and a mailbox type service to give the response

What are you doing that requires an external service?

[upbeat nymph]

It's just a theory/idea. But I want to tinker with building a bot that can handle, in theory, thousands or more messages a second via Discord. Now, I know that to obtain the fastest speeds in terms of scanning through text and checking it against rules you should get as low level as you can. With NodeJS this may be difficult, cause...JavaScript. So I was thinking that it may be easy to have like, a Rust library and use FFI of some sort to leverage it or well any of the other options. I'm thinking maybe a Rust webserver that handles the data and responds back...but I'm wondering at scale how it would handle it. So, I might make a simulator that literally sends hundreds of "messages" a second to the "bot" and see how each other these methods performs.

All using the same ruleset

Like, for example, all uppercase not allowed rule.

And keep pushing that number per second farther and farther up

To find that "threshold" for, in theory, the application where it just can't safely handle more

[shy helm]

Heh, sounds like my wheel house

You should look into creating a stream-based event processing pipeline

[upbeat nymph]

See, I love bots. I've been writing bots for a while...but I want to broaden my horizons and learn more...and I feel like this could definitely help do that

You should look into creating a stream-based event processing pipeline
@shy helm could you expand more on this?

[shy helm]

Yeah for sure, my experience is not on the bot side, but on writing stream-based event processing pipelines for the finance industry 😉

[upbeat nymph]

Damn automention in quote

Ahh, we were talking AWS earlier with SQS and Kinesis

But, my thing is...it has to respond back to the primary application with the "flags"/violations the message has

[shy helm]

If your concern is throughput, you need to design a system that can easily horizontally scale. In the past, I've created systems to handle high volume trade order flow and the way we built them was using pipe-and-filter type architectures, using Kafka and Kafka Streams

[upbeat nymph]

Well with Discord bots and sharding, adding more servers is a lot easier. And in theory if I know that threshold I can reduce the amount of load on that specific server by spinning up a new one and setting the shards to it.

But I don't want the response to always be "throw more servers at it" lol

[shy helm]

Eh, only way to scale horizontally is to throw more instances at it 😛

[upbeat nymph]

Well, yeah; but I want to be able to optimize the code before throwing hardware at it.

[shy helm]

You either scale out (add machines) or scale up (get bigger machines)

scale out is cheaper

[upbeat nymph]

vertical scaling scares me. lol

[shy helm]

it's very $$$ lol

[upbeat nymph]

Too much trust in one machine

So Kafka. I feel like I've seen it before, but never used it.

[shy helm]

But yeah, you can probably build a digraph of what you need to do, and then you can easily build it using something like Apache Flink or Kafka Streams

Flink might suit your needs just fine, I used Kafka because I had very complex map-reduce esq actions

[neon quiver]

deploying kafka on kubernetes is a pretty simple process nowadays

and again, good options are available as managed services from public clouds

[shy helm]

ehhhhhhhhhh I would avoid

kafka and containerized environments are not good pairings

[upbeat nymph]

I'll be honest, I've...I've never used kubernetes, or really docker tbh. I tend to just spin up a cloud server and go right in and install by hand. Which is horrible...I know, but like. lol

[neon quiver]

gotta start somewhere 😉

[upbeat nymph]

I've never had a reason to do anything otherwise

lol

[shy helm]

You can get hosted Kafka if you want

but also, look into Apache Flink istead 😛

[neon quiver]

@shy helm there's been really great improvements on that front recently

[shy helm]

I think it will suit your needs

[neon quiver]

its much less of a pain than it used to be

[upbeat nymph]

Wouldn't it be better to host it locally though @shy helm? To reduce the latency, or is it pretty low latency?

[shy helm]

How did they resolve the failure recovery though?

That's the issue with containers, they're inherently not durable

[neon quiver]

but still, from a programmer's perspective, I want to worry as little as possible about how my infra is provisioned, that's why I usually lean on SQS or Kinesis

Persistent Volume Claims in k8s

[shy helm]

Ehh, any remote message bus is not going to be very low latency

[upbeat nymph]

Since most of my stuff is web applications (mainly Laravel based), I'll just use Forge or something to provision and secure my servers and Envoyer to manage the applications

[shy helm]

But generally Kafka is fast

And it gets faster when you have a volume of data moving through it

(since you can amortize overhead costs with batching)

[neon quiver]

@shy helm wdym? running on AWS within a single region you can get sub 10ms latency pretty easily

@upbeat nymph if you have a server at home then yeah sure, use that 😉

[shy helm]

Can you? I'm not familiar with deploying Kafka in AWS so I can't speak to that

single digit latency with Kafka isn't that easy though

[upbeat nymph]

haha, I would not trust my hardware ability that much

[shy helm]

But it depends on a bunch of factors, like what your replication requirements are and stuff, so it's not super easy to speak generally about it

[upbeat nymph]

Okay, so really...what this sounds like is just a huge websocket system? But...more optimized?

From first glance

Sorry, never seen either of these before

[shy helm]

Which one? kafka?

or Flink

[upbeat nymph]

Kafka (I'm only finding NodeJS libs for that at the moment)

[shy helm]

Ah

[neon quiver]

@shy helm I'm talking about SQS or Kinesis (Kinesis being very close to Kafka in how it works)

[shy helm]

Ah gotcha

I've never used either, so I was just talking about Kafka

I would suspect SQS and Kinesis are similar though--depending on replication requirements you'll see performance dramatically change

[neon quiver]

yeah, they announced a new "managed kafka" service recently, but I think their target is more people that already run Kafka, cause Kinesis is just more integration to the AWS ecosystem and is just less management overhead in general

[shy helm]

On a Discord bot though I suspect dropping messages is probably not that big of a deal here and there

[neon quiver]

they both guarantee at-least-once-delivery

[upbeat nymph]

^

yeet

[neon quiver]

and having acually tried it with a live system, yeah, its rock-solid

[upbeat nymph]

I like that "at-least-once-delivery"

[neon quiver]

yeah, you have to make your consumer idempotent, but once you get the hang of it, its so good 😉

[shy helm]

That's a different guarantee then what I'm talking about though

I'm talking about if you have a failure that you won't lose data

[upbeat nymph]

Yeah, that's not a concern as much here

[shy helm]

i.e. if you're deployed in 1 AZ and it goes down, unless you have cross AZ replication you will lose data

[neon quiver]

that's the cool thing about managed services: that's taken care of by AWS, for example SQS is replicated in 3 AZs by default

Kinesis has similar guarantees, I'd have to comb through documentation to find the specifics

[shy helm]

Interesting, and they still get sub 10ms end-to-end latency?

oh, that's AZ, which is not the same as region? i.e. in the same DC?

eh, I sometimes forget how crazy the durability/availability requirements are in finance. We had DC failure + 1 replication requirements for our Kafka stuff (since it was on the critical trade path). i.e. we had to be able to tolerate an entire DC failing + 1 rack in the other DC

[neon quiver]

AZs are lower-level than regions, technically there can be more than one DC in an AZ, but AWS is very secretive about that

[shy helm]

ah... no wonder we don't use them, lol

[upbeat nymph]

Who do you all use?

GCP? ;P

[shy helm]

own our own DC

[neon quiver]

well, given that Vanguard runs mostly on AWS, there's a way to make it globally availlable 😉

[shy helm]

Do they? Interesting

I'm sure Vanguard is a client of the company I worked for 😉

[neon quiver]

oh yeah, they usually have a talking spot at re:invent

[upbeat nymph]

Grass, how big of a fucking company are you in? Jesus. Owning their own DCs?

[neon quiver]

@upbeat nymph I'm mostly an AWS user, but I've used GCP in the past without many issues

[shy helm]

It’s not uncommon in the finance industry to host your own stuff

I went from that tech company to a hedge fund and they even run their own DCs

The hedge fund does use AWS VMs for spot compute tho, no data store though

[upbeat nymph]

Ah, makes sense. I'm in a huge financial town. So I'm surprised there's not more DCs plopped around here.

I've used GCP like...2 times

[shy helm]

But ya, for your discord both checkout flink, might be able to do exactly what you want

You’d just have to make a client to publish from discord to flink

Probably could get flink to do the actions at the end, or get it’s result and then get another service to act

Instead of having a cycle of Service A -> B -> A having an acyclic direct graph of A -> B -> C will be more performant and maintainable

[neon quiver]

@shy helm I found their two talks from re:Invent 2019:

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kzOj9cStGo
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PahcAcEOcs
  interesting stuff

[upbeat nymph]

So basically, every event is passed to the flink service which then handles all the distribution to the service that handles spam detection and then from that I have the bot/Discord node app listen for those messages containing the flagged data?

God I wish I could do this shit full time D: I'm jealous of you all

[neon quiver]

that's the gist of it yes!

I always say: Apply for the job you want, not the one you think you can get today

[upbeat nymph]

I have, for the past like year. But I have no corporate experience, and I'm self taught. I'm a risk

And not many people want to take that risk

Actually year and a half

I've gotten close to getting offers to be relocated and jobs, but they always end up, "if you had literally 4-6 months of enterprise experience, you'd be easily given an offer."

But living in a financial area, Charlotte NC, it makes it difficult

[neon quiver]

having some stuff on github certainly helps, but most importantly: be upfront about you know and don't and emphasize that you want to learn

[upbeat nymph]

That's what I do

Btw, my GitHub: https://github.com/MatthewSH

[neon quiver]

with pretty much every tech company being remote right now, you could try applying to companies outside of your area as well

[upbeat nymph]

I've tried that too, most people want like...experienced. Maybe I just haven't found the right company yet, but it is frustrating

[shy helm]

Might be a stretch but, have you tried applying to an internship position?

[neon quiver]

yeah I can relate, but don't give up!

[upbeat nymph]

I've been on Indeed, Glassdoor, Monster, LinkedIn, Angel, etc.

Grass, looked into it. They want people actively in school and have like a min 3.x GPA.

[shy helm]

Ah, :/

[upbeat nymph]

And pursuing degrees, I'd like to go back maybe...but it's out of the question

At the moment

[neon quiver]

weirdly enough, a lot of companies that are known for being software engineering powerhouse are also some of the most willing to hire people with less experience, so don't be afraid to try your luck!

[shy helm]

Yeah a lot of the entry level stuff is oriented toward uni students, it’s rough :/

Contract work to build a portfolio might help though, if you’re okay with building websites?

(Seeing the JS/PHP I figure you might be open to that 😛 )

[upbeat nymph]

Yeah, what makes it really frustrating to me is that a guy I knew...no fucking experience. Couldn't even manage Office...now works a InfoSec style job because his dad's in it. Another person went to another company, no code experience in his life, got hired to be a web developer for them. I applied to that same company, I got rejected.

[neon quiver]

your edge against CS majors is probably going to be something else than pure programming proficiency, something like "being pragmatic" or "getting the job done"

[upbeat nymph]

I'm not against contract work, I'm just not really a "designer" which is definitely a downside.

your edge against CS majors is probably going to be something else than pure programming proficiency, something like "being pragmatic" or "getting the job done"
@neon quiver maybe it's the fact that I've been up for near 24 hours, but could you expand on this?

[neon quiver]

CS majors can whip out a binary search out of their ass while cooking ravioli if they want to

[upbeat nymph]

I feel like in terms of experience, I do have enough. Some of my projects handled hundreds of thousands of entries per day to sort through (game stats website). Others handled hundreds of millions of API queries a month; but because it's not "enterprise" most don't care enough it seems :/

[neon quiver]

that's great but it can be a real problem when you're working for a business that needs to ship features

they have their nose to close to the source code

being self-thaught, and having built live, production-like systems (yes even a discord bot counts) you have a broader experience in taking a product from design through to deployment and live maintenance

[upbeat nymph]

I've written entire bot frameworks, reverse engineered webpacked chat scripts and sniffed the network calls to map out the API for said framework. Published and maintain multiple libraries across multiple languages, etc. And I've seen some CS majors come out of college barely understanding HashMaps in Java.

[neon quiver]

that's really valuable

[elder ivy]

the paper degree is a barrier to entry

that's just the reality

[upbeat nymph]

When I did go to college and had a couple classes, my CS professor actually asked me to scale down the advanced methods in my code cause he had to grade my work and not the TAs because they didn't understand my code

[elder ivy]

I'm certainly not saying you don't have relevant actual experience mind you

[upbeat nymph]

@elder ivy but a lot of these companies claim to take "experience in lieu of degree"

But my "experience" isn't good enough

[elder ivy]

that's just what they'd like you to believe

unless you have actual inside contacts

the degree is the barrier

if you know some people to grease the wheels then maybe there's a different discussion

[upbeat nymph]

Which is the other BS I'm dealing with. A lot of these companies post publicly about job postings, but have no intent to hired applicants outside the company

[elder ivy]

I mean it's the cost of ramp up

[upbeat nymph]

Everyone I know works in different states and the companies want people there (CA for example) but aren't gonna relocate an entry level dev with a high risk factor

[elder ivy]

I know a lot of companies don't focus on retention enough but actual intimate knowledge is useful

[upbeat nymph]

I guess at the end of the day, it's up to me to move somewhere else but that's hard considering I work graveyard at a gas station

[elder ivy]

I mean there are some elements of a degree that are useful/practical. and then there's some experience that can only come with hands on experience

[upbeat nymph]

Not upset about it, I'm glad I have a job...but like. It makes it difficult for sure

[elder ivy]

working with others is a skill too. same with super large code bases

[upbeat nymph]

I've sat in those classes in these degrees. I literally had to tutor people because they didn't understand conditional statements or why operators exist.

[elder ivy]

solo writing a framework is a lot different than designing something that's meant to be worked on by a large team imo

[upbeat nymph]

These are CS majors

[elder ivy]

oh I believe you

there's a lot of bad CS majors LOL

there's a lot of people attracted to the industry. who are maybe even working IN the industry. who are absolutely abysmal

[upbeat nymph]

solo writing a framework is a lot different than designing something that's meant to be worked on by a large team imo
I strive to make my codebase easy to read and add on to. I always like to have the enterprise mindset. I write my code for me, but understand it may be used and maintained by others.

[elder ivy]

I certainly have a few coworkers who I really question why they're still employed

[upbeat nymph]

https://github.com/PaladinsSidekick/paladins-sidekick this is one of my most recent projects

Obviously, not the best, it started as a hacky thing to mess around with...but slowly grew and grew haha

[elder ivy]

used and maintained by others is still only part of the thing, what I mean is that the added complexity of actively trying to satisfy a plethora of consumers is a tricky balance. though your experience is definitely an asset too

[shy helm]

Don't discount the "luck" attribute of getting a job offer too

[elder ivy]

it's hard to evaluate people's actual competencies. and interviews etc are a terrible process lol

yeahhh

right time and right place

and interviewer you kick it off with

[shy helm]

Even right interviewer

ya

[elder ivy]

I know one guy who did interviews

and NO one passed

he was absolutely hard to work with so I know exactly why no one passed

lol I hear he's now a manager... so it's even worse

[shy helm]

The number of times I've walked out of interviews thinking I killed it and not gotten a job vs. the number of times I've walked out thinking it was a flop and gotten it... is too high

[upbeat nymph]

I did work a couple months at an investment firm, but I don't wanna talk about that. Horrible experience. Horrible onboarding, they didn't even have my hardware till like a month or two in. Then they switched to completely different systems (outside of the scope of my knowledge) then my mom had heart surgey...then they ended contract early for everyone cause they went from full product separate of all other products to an integration into a current system which took the project from a projected 4-6 months down to a week or two. So I didn't even get a chance to participate :/

I say I don't wanna talk about it, then talk about it

#Logic

[shy helm]

oof, tech in finance is very very hit or miss

[elder ivy]

I mean there's a difference between a software company

and a company that uses software or writes software for their own needs

like I count custom integrations in the latter category imo

[shy helm]

Even just tech culture at the companies is much different

[elder ivy]

yep

it's a huge mindset difference

[upbeat nymph]

I mean, like. My first day in, they said be there at 9am to meet with your supervisor. Get there at 8:45am. Get setup. I'm told the supervisor hasn't shown up yet. They tell me to head home (I lived over an hour away). Turns out, that supervisor came in at 11am those days...they didn't tell me that.

Brought me in beginning of December, didn't get me my hardware till mid January. Didn't approve of all my software licenses until almost February.

I was paid, thank god, but still

[shy helm]

lol, what a mess

TBH though, doesn't sound that uncommon for smaller companies/less tech oriented though

[upbeat nymph]

It...it's not small....

It's a HUGE investment firm

[elder ivy]

yikes

[shy helm]

well, I mean they fall in the "less tech oriented" side lol

[upbeat nymph]

Like, they own their own parking deck, 2 building, their own road, etc. Just for this location

And then I had to go out for a week or so because my mom had heart surgery and I needed to take care of her because it being extremely high risk. And then I get back to find out they completely switched to a new integration instead of project. So, Angular 2 -> Angular 1 essentially. I never learned Angular 1 and their integration was extremely messy. Finished within a week. And then we all sat around for another few until they cut us.

Best part...their onboarding paper for setting up the project...didn't include any IIS instructions, or specific things we needed that I was completely missing that I had to ask another contractor for and he had to email me the code and assets.

That was my first experience in the "enterprise" world.

[elder ivy]

that's not really an enterprise software company though

[shy helm]

Yeahhhh, honestly like I said, sound par the course for large non-tech companies

[elder ivy]

that's like people who would maybe buy it lol

it's not a good place for tech IMO

[upbeat nymph]

lol, true

They had really freaking smart people there.

[elder ivy]

I mean if they got money

and are willing to pay devs big bucks. why not

[upbeat nymph]

But most shit was outsourced to India consultants who literally didn't have powerful enough computers to run newer Android emulators.

[elder ivy]

I hear fintechs pay a lot

but it's a rough rough gig

[shy helm]

yeah the finance side of tech is either... good or bad

[elder ivy]

might as well work in SF

[shy helm]

no in between lmao

[upbeat nymph]

Mine...was bad.

lol

straight up

[shy helm]

Or sometimes it's meh but the pay makes it.. good lol

[upbeat nymph]

Look man, I just want a tech job where I can write code, learn new things, make a little bit of money to be comfortable and save up...I'll be fine.

It's not always about the money for me

I gotta enjoy the job more than anything or I'll get bored easy

[shy helm]

You're right, money is not everything

[neon quiver]

I'm sure you'll find something you like

[upbeat nymph]

I'd love to do something related to video games tbh

[neon quiver]

like actually game development or simply "in the context of a video game company" ?

[upbeat nymph]

I used to work in Unity and UE4 a tiny bit I published a mobile game at 16ish from Unity. But somewhere in the gaming industry would be fun, web development, systems, community stuff, something. I really enjoy it. I've built multiple products related to video games.

[neon quiver]

Ubisoft has an office in NC if I recall correctly, have you looked at their open positions?

[upbeat nymph]

Uhhh, not recently. Let me check it out

They use ASP.NET

lol

.aspx

[neon quiver]

do you have a link? xd

[upbeat nymph]

lmao

damn

https://www.ubisoft.com/en-US/careers/search.aspx?jobFamily=programming

[neon quiver]

looks like there's just this one in Cary NC: https://www.ubisoft.com/en-US/careers/search.aspx?jobFamily=programming#sr-post-id=743999693861572

[upbeat nymph]

Epic Games is in NC too, they mainly hire engine programmers.

[neon quiver]

C++ though

[upbeat nymph]

I'm so confused

[neon quiver]

wait for it to load xD

[elder ivy]

I avoid game companies like the plague 😄

but that's just me

[upbeat nymph]

Still nothing, huh

Wonder what's going on. Could be a regional thing

who knows

[neon quiver]

weird

who knows, maybe

[upbeat nymph]

Depends on what company, smaller companies I feel like are better in terms of people

[neon quiver]

in the gaming industry I hear smaller companies tend to be a lot more intense on the crunch time, cause they don't have the capital to withstand a poorly performing release

[upbeat nymph]

I've been working with a smaller one (like, they contract to huge AAA companies but they're working on their first solo release). Great people, super great. Really passionate about what they do and the game is really fun.

I'm in the super closed alpha hahahahah. Like to give you an idea, when I first got in on the game...the Discord server had like <30 people haha

It's honestly a great team and company.

[neon quiver]

wait, so you already have a tech job rn?

[upbeat nymph]

Nope

I'm just a community volunteer

And alpha tester

[neon quiver]

aaaah I see

[upbeat nymph]

I work graveyard shift at a gas station full time

[neon quiver]

hey so you probably know people inside that company, have you ever mentioned to a manager or something that you're looking for a tech job?

[upbeat nymph]

I've mentioned it before, but don't think they're looking at the moment

Tbh, I'm just kind of hoping they see me step up and I can establish myself in the community to the point where they basically have to hire me

not really but like

I'm passionate, and I love the game

If that turns into a job opportunity, I'll take it. If not, nothing will change.

[neon quiver]

if I can offer any advice here is to be proactive, keep asking anyone if they know a team who's looking for a programmer anywhere

[upbeat nymph]

Yeah, I feel weird about that sometimes tbh. I do that and I feel like people get annoyed...even if it's just once or twice

I just got to get over it though, most people don't really care all that much

[upbeat nymph]

anyone use Codespaces yet?

I just got in. Haven't tried it yet

[lavish minnow]

ehh not really

most of the stuff I work on tends to not work well for Codespaces and similar web editors

[upbeat nymph]

Why is that?

[cloud knot]

usually online editors have very limited supports for build tools and native stuff

[upbeat nymph]

Ahhh, I see

I don't usually use online IDEs so

[old chasm]

Anyone interested in web development??

[vestal glen]

no, that's why there are no websites.

[grizzled steeple]

I know someone who's looking for a web dev, and is even willing to pay for the work. I'd do it myself, but I don't have much free time to spare, and it's a pretty big project
Idk how open this discord is to "advertising", so, until I get the go-ahead to post a link, I'ma just leave it as "If you're interested, DM me and I'll send you a link"

[upbeat nymph]

@old chasm why? Whats up?

@grizzled steeple can you share more about the project? Is it contract? Short term? Long term?

Full time employment?

[grizzled steeple]

It's more of a Long-Term Project and I think it's more of a free-form project rather then contract. It's for the Wyngro Group on DA that need a website for their made up economy system. No real-world money involved (at least as far as the users are concerned). Of course the dev would be paid for their work

@upbeat nymph

They want the dev to not just finish the project, but also be a contact in case something goes wrong on the website, so maintain the project. Even if the latter is just in the free-time then

[old chasm]

@grizzled steeple Thx man for the information. But I am still learning so not yet.But thank you though

@upbeat nymph I was looking for a buddy to share with

[upbeat nymph]

@old chasm are you looking for help? web development is my thing. I love it. Whatcha working on?

What's DA? Maybe I'm missing something lol

[grizzled steeple]

DA is DeviantArt

[upbeat nymph]

Oh yeah, I just looked

hahah

I haven't used that in years

Actually, fun fact. I legit wrote an economy system a few years ago which included marketplace plans, seller accounts, multiple accounts, and the plans for flucation in prices based on the current marketplace prices with fallout protection. Just for shits and giggles

I think I still have the code somewhere

[lavish minnow]

@upbeat nymph basically exactly what @cloud knot said

the bulk of my software development is in systems software

usually systems and software management, but I do quite a bit other things too

[upbeat nymph]

Ahh, well. I may give rust a shot in codespaces.

Just to see it's support

[lavish minnow]

and even game development sucks in those things

[upbeat nymph]

Cause it has automated port forwarding too, and you can connect your VSCode local instance to it? LOL

I guess for handoff style things?

[lavish minnow]

it's mostly geared around simple CLI tools and web services

[upbeat nymph]

Looks like it, but systems you really shouldn't be in the cloud for it 😛

[lavish minnow]

so, I think the nicest implementation of this was the CodeReady Workspaces in OpenShift.io

[upbeat nymph]

Since you need to build on the system

[lavish minnow]

which you can actually host yourself too

[upbeat nymph]

Huh, never used that

[lavish minnow]

https://openshift.io/

[upbeat nymph]

I bookmarked it

[lavish minnow]

still the same purpose, but a nicer experience, and you can set up a local instance if you want

[upbeat nymph]

What system languages do you use?

[lavish minnow]

Python, C, C++, Perl, Ruby, Go, and Rust

that's in order of frequency from most to least

[upbeat nymph]

I'm eh to Python.

Never used it

Wanna learn Rust

And C++

[lavish minnow]

Python is a good starting point to learn procedural and object oriented programming concepts

it's pretty easy to ramp up from Python to C++

Rust is pretty alien compared to all other programming languages

[upbeat nymph]

Yeah, I started with C# back in the day in relation to Unity. Then I moved to JavaScript with web dev. And now I mainly use TypeScript and Laravel PHP

[lavish minnow]

it's one of the few programming languages I struggle with when working on it

[upbeat nymph]

Also, completely forgot about this

And I wrote Java for Minecraft plugins

Rust just seems nice though.

It's fast, safe, and efficient.

[lavish minnow]

shrugs

on the other side, it's pretty difficult to support Rust as a programming language

[upbeat nymph]

What do you mean?

Finally got a game

[lavish minnow]

the compiler is a pain to ship to users

and fixing bugs in dependencies is painful

[upbeat nymph]

I might just go back to reading my C++ book haha

[lavish minnow]

I often don't recommend Rust or Go because they both have this problem

if you're cognizant of those pitfalls and design processes to handle it, then sure

but most people don't or handwave away the issues

[upbeat nymph]

Before I really get into it I usually listen to hours of presentations, tutorials, etc.

[nocturne galleon]

Hi

anyone on?

[mellow steeple]

i have like an i5 cpu, 16gb of ram, and 500gb of storage on my macbook pro. on my pc i have a i7 cpu, 16gb of ram, and 1.25 tb of storage. which one should i use (pc can run either windows or linux) for python development and school?

[late plank]

anyone experienced with xcode that is willing to help me?

[lavish minnow]

the PC is probably better

I'd go with having a Linux setup

there's even a Fedora Linux variant for Python stuff: https://labs.fedoraproject.org/en/python-classroom/

[late plank]

I keep getting an error:
The data couldn’t be read because it isn’t in the correct format.

Any idea on how i can solve this?

[obtuse night]

What's the data and what are you trying to do?

[late plank]

I don't have a lot of experience with xcode. I downloaded this code and am trying to update it and expand it (personal use). The main idea of it is to communicate via bluetooth with an hm-10 module connected to an arduino.
the app does launch on a virtual iphone but not to my own iphone

redoing it fixed it

[tall kernel]

im actually proud of myself

i made a clock boys

[upbeat nymph]

I'm more concerned with the URL

[elder ivy]

how do you "make a clock" ?

[foggy ginkgo]

setInterval, new Date() and a DOM update.

[old chasm]

im actually proud of myself
@tall kernel SICK

Looks really awesome

[tall kernel]

yes

[tall kernel]

13,7k lines in html

mostly javascript

epic

but fast

[upbeat nymph]

But, that's VueJS and Moment? Of course they're fast. They're meant to be

[elder ivy]

all this is overkill for a clock. except moment maybe

[old chasm]

all this is overkill for a clock. except moment maybe
@elder ivy yup @tall kernel if you need 13.7k lines for just a clock , you might need to overtink it.

[cinder kraken]

You didn't need to rewrite x86 assembly and a full OS+web browser for a clock

[old chasm]

https://www.codesdope.com/blog/article/how-to-create-a-digital-clock-using-javascript/ This uses less than 100 lines i think.

[tall kernel]

@elder ivy yup @tall kernel if you need 13.7k lines for just a clock , you might need to overtink it.
@old chasm i wanted to make it as long as possible

[old chasm]

well then mission accomplished , i guess @tall kernel

[tall kernel]

yup

[elder ivy]

it could be longer

[tall kernel]

how

[old chasm]

I mean yes

if you just wanna increase lines , then like put spaces

[tall kernel]

no

no spaces bro

only code

Thats cheating.

[old chasm]

well then make a billion number of functions and call the other inside of the other like a chain and the las one will give the code for the actual clock

[tall kernel]

thats cheating too