and buses
#cars
viscid anvil
dense shard
nice
viscid anvil
whoa is that an FB
fathom socket
It's a dorito
eager kite
Twitter
Also to stir up old shit, this video was made by Tesla in May of 2019 according to the file's creation date:
Almost a year old at this point. Imagine what their current dev releases can do.
normal temple
Siccck, I can't view the vid
stoic ledge
Same
normal temple
I don't get why you need autopilot around town
eager kite
^what people said about the telephone 30 years ago
stoic ledge
https://www.ad.nl/politiek/oud-minister-plasterk-noemt-rijders-van-elektrische-auto-s-enorme-asocialen~aa467938/ (Google Translate) 
stoic ledge
@fair bronze Omega
https://youtu.be/j264iSMCQ_o
They're going to convert it to a pickup next episode tho 
fair bronze
Yeah I've seen it
Kinda sad tbh
30 hours of cleaning the thing, then saying that it's going to be hacked
civic spoke
@eager kite Any sort of automatic transportation is no where near. There are far too many legal issues for it to happen.
Computers are great for stuff that always stays the same. But they are crap in any kind of "What if"-scenario.
And if you use the current 'Autopilot', then you are still legally required to keep watch of the car for those 'what if' moments.
Far too many people just let go of the wheel and say "Car's driving itself! I don't need to pay attention!"
Always watching for that 'what if' is often more exhausting than driving yourself.
eager kite
Holy shit that minister literally has brain damage
@civic spoke did you watch the video?
literally is automatically driving right there under dev software
and that's year old dev software
heady ridge
Watching some racing and knowing the defence force here has a race/burnout team had to check it out and wow
training mechanics work on them
normal temple
Mmmm great car
indigo coral
Yeah it's awesome
stoic ledge
High quality interior and high quality (fun) driving experience
normal temple
Hell yeah brother
civic spoke
And prestigious. 👀
indigo coral
ye
stoic ledge
Most engaging EV ever 
normal temple
^^^
stoic ledge
And they did some very extensive tests to make sure it drives like a real Porsche :Pogey: (Spotted the car before it was announced :))
normal temple
POG
eager kite
if only the range was better
civic spoke
The question is - Is the range not enough for 99% of the people and their use case?
They say what? 200 miles?
indigo coral
200ish miles but it very handily beats it
Think I read someone got 300 out of it
Unlike Tesla that literally never can make the EPA estimate unless you drive with the heater off and 40mph
civic spoke
I like how EPA range is 192 miles for the Turbo S. But WLTP says "Nah. Here, have another 25-30% of range"
normal temple
I with AC on, at 75-80 mph with a full load of passengers and full trunk and shit on the roof rack and still get 450 miles a tank in the X5 @indigo coral
😂
indigo coral
Wow
normal temple
Its honestly great lmao
stoic ledge
You buy a Porsche for the way it handles
shrewd shell
We all know that Range Rover's are the most reliable cars
indigo coral
Range Rovers are awesome, I'd totally get one if it was even decently reliable
but unfortunately its a nightmare
shrewd shell
Yeah, good cars, but dont buy them lol
Leasing them isn't a bad idea if you are fine with switching cars every couple of years
shrewd shell
Yup, same with most BMW's
My family has been leasing BMW's for several years now, we bought 1 and regret it lol
shrewd shell
Really? We've had a BMW X5 2012 and it started giving problems after 3-4 years
Its barely running right now
dense shard
Idea is a car lasts longer than 3-4 years.
dense shard
I'm a fan of ownership tbh.
civic spoke
Same.
stoic ledge
Same
civic spoke
Buy owning new-ish cars are expensive.
indigo coral
Friend of mine has a 2005 X3, constant problems
civic spoke
I did hear the rant Linus had about it.
dense shard
It depends on what you are buying.
A lot of newer cars on the market are a better deal new than used considering the prices of used.
civic spoke
The main part what you are paying for when you are buying new is peace of mind.
dense shard
Warranty, bonuses, and being first.
normal temple
Just take care of the maintenance lol
civic spoke
Thing is - When you lease, or buy new. Then you usually have the dealer take care of all of that.
When your car is over 10 years old. Then it's all on you.
dense shard
Anyway. In my case I could buy brand new for 23k or buy used for 20k.
10,000 miles, warranty issues, no free services... new was a no brainer for me.
civic spoke
A new Fiesta ST is tempting.
dense shard
It was worth the step up to get what I wanted.
stoic ledge
Buying new is unaffordable here
dense shard
Small and dated for my liking.
Focus ST would have been nice, but also kinda dated by the time I was buying... also premium fuel is a no no.
dense shard
Fiesta... yeah not a huge fan of the tiny engine.
Focus is still a 4 banger tho... but 2 door fiesta
stoic ledge
Ah wow misread Focus
Because GlassBomb said Fiesta xD
But yeah, we have a new Focus ST as well
dense shard
Then again I'm not a huge fan of modern Ford styling.
dense shard
A 2 door Corolla hatchback would be sweet.
stoic ledge
Probably have to import it since they are sold in my country :/
We had 3 door Corollas 10 years ago
dense shard
yeah, but the new one is begging for a coupe version.
stoic ledge
But 3 door C-segment are as good as extinct 
dense shard
Yeah, but the 3rd door is a mini door.
civic spoke
I'd probably buy an EV before anything else right now.
stoic ledge
civic spoke
The Honda E is such a good looker
stoic ledge
Oof
indigo coral
too bad the Focus RS didn't come with an auto
dense shard
I wouldn't mind that, but I've heard it's a bit boring to drive.
Also interior quality isn't quite as nice as Honda or Toyota.
stoic ledge
Luckily the Focus RS didn't come with an auto
Ftfy ^^
stoic ledge
i30 N drives nice
civic spoke
The Honda E is RWD 👀
stoic ledge
Yes it is
civic spoke
And has a tiny turning circle
civic spoke
Don't have to limit the travel of the wheels as much.
dense shard
It is super short as well.
civic spoke
Turning radius of some FF cars are just horrid
stoic ledge
Hate the mirros tho
civic spoke
More or less the size of the Jazz/Fit
indigo coral
my car turning radius is bloody gigantic
dense shard
Also doesn't have an engine up front so I imagine the wheels have more turn in them.
My Corolla is alright.
indigo coral
Mines truly terrible
stoic ledge
Never had an issue with the turning radius on mine
dense shard
Also about 1000 pounds heavier.
civic spoke
The turning radius of my car ain't bad. FR layout.
stoic ledge
Wait 21ft is 6.4m? That's not much?
civic spoke
That's good. Tbh
stoic ledge
Wait is the US measurement maybe different from the EU measurement?
dense shard
Turn wheel to lock, and turn till you are back to where you started?
stoic ledge
Well idk, falcon says 21ft but if I check it here it says 12.2m = 40ft. Probably get the same for your Corolla
civic spoke
I think that my turning diameter is just above 10 meters
stoic ledge
10.4m == 34ft for a Corolla hatchback
stoic ledge
Yes
civic spoke
Yes
dense shard
Cause MK's figures are all about 2x what Falcon and I are saying.
dense shard
Fairly useless metric in the US at any rate.
stoic ledge
That's why I asked Wait is the US measurement maybe different from the EU measurement? 😝
🤔 strange
Well idk
civic spoke
10.4/10.5 is what I find for my car.
stoic ledge
But yours is RWD
dense shard
https://i.redd.it/5c9j87dbcli41.jpg oh man that red is a good look.
indigo coral
mine's big enough that I struggle to park
almost always have to 3 point in
and out
indigo coral
not large enough for semis
stoic ledge
Well nearly
wicked minnow
Went to go pick her up. She lasted about 20miles. Imma assume bad fuel.
indigo coral
quite possibly
wicked minnow
been sitting for a year and a half
civic girder
Yea
probs varnished gas
drain and clean the tank, replace your fuel filter, and pray that the pump is still good and that the lines aren't clogged
looks sick tho, I love those popup Hondas
wicked minnow
welp rn its at the shop. we will see what he has to say. he worked on my old prelude and on these older hondas for 30 years now.
eager kite
Finally an EV that is better than the 2012 Model S in all categories
Only costs 2 mil euro lol
dense shard
Ah yes. A British boutique car known for being quirky despite having used Toyota engines for the last 20 years.
Perhaps their EVs are less quirky, but then again the British doing EVs is as appealing as toasting bread near an open body of water.
drifting mantle
Finally got around to stripping the failed paint job from these covers.
Gonna paint again, and this time just silver by itself. No coloring.
dense shard
For reference.
Pretty sure, almost certain.
The heatshield on the left there is NOT painted.
It wasn't painted in my car at any rate.
drifting mantle
Oh no, I had gotten these from the junk yard, cleaned and painted them.
I didn’t get a good spray on them though, and decided to not do color again.
Some time next week, or next month, I’ll paint them again, but just in silver.
These ones are in better condition than the ones on my car (less rust n corrosion)
stoic ledge
V-Tec
https://www.facebook.com/332145270132218/posts/3863957556950954/
Tesla owners taking their Tesla on vacation
jagged coyote
eager kite
Damn so many Teslas at this one too
jagged coyote
Yeah but at least they won't wait 15hr to get a pump
eager kite
You're right, sometimes it's days
jagged coyote
stoic ledge
Never seen that in my life
wheat hatch
stoic ledge
Ah gas lines as aftermath of hurricane Sandy
Not really comparable
Gasoline supplies have been disrupted by everything from traffic jams to shuttered ports and power outages caused by the storm that carved a deadly swath through the region on Monday.
Most major gas station chains, from ExxonMobil (XOM) to Hess (HES), are experiencing disruptions. There are also pedestrians toting gas cans waiting for their turn at the pump so they can power their home generators.
Hmmm with power outages, I don't think you can recharge your Tesla as well
eager kite
Thankfully many Tesla sites are installing battery storage systems and solar panels to produce local power supply
Also has happened many other times besides natural disasters
Supply chains fail for gas all the time, usually it isn't large enough to effect a large area
Supply for electricity is much more stable in comparison, and can be augmented at the home level (something not possible with gas).
dusty warren
so the conclusion is; gas bad most of the time?
eager kite
bad all the time
if electricity is down you have bigger problems than charging your car
dusty warren
but people have gas powered backup generators if they need that electricity
like on farms and stuff
stoic ledge
And hospitals etc
dusty warren
and gas cars still win for sound
eager kite
We're talking about a grid failure
as that's basically the only thing that will be taking out Tesla superchargers
stoic ledge
Nah we were actually talking about a line for hours at superchargers
eager kite
You may have a generator for your house and enough fuel to run for a day or two
most people don't
dusty warren
those lines are a WIP problem
eager kite
@stoic ledge useless to hyperfocus on
dusty warren
for a long time they will be
stoic ledge
🤔
eager kite
Long station lines are very common every travel season, regardless of gas or EV
stoic ledge
Went on vacation even the busiest day of the year.... literally never had an issue
Maybe one car in line
eager kite
nice anecdote
dusty warren
i’m still all for gas until the Tesla semi is done being tested and touched up on
eager kite
you drive a semi around?
dusty warren
will do soon
eager kite
talk about efficiency...
eager kite
Tesla semi is not gonna be cheap...
dusty warren
ik
i just want elon to prove it’s possible and better than huge big fat turbo diesels
which i do love
eager kite
I mean they have the prototypes driving around rn and pulling loads
no megachargers installed yet tho
Probably for the better imo
dusty warren
i’m still excited about it tbh
what company was it that ordered like 250 of them after the reveal?
dusty warren
anticipation is killing me
eager kite
They probably will field them for a period and make sure they are more economical than running diesel, then put larger orders
I bet the production version will have a lot better stats than what was presented at its launch
dusty warren
and being in the uk like i am we’ll get then much later as they’re only tested in the states
stoic ledge
The infrastructure is so not ready for such power draw tho
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against EVs. But the infrastructure isn't evolving at the same rate
civic girder
mfw never been stuck in line for gas cause I don't get gas at Costco
dusty warren
you’re not ready for such power draw
stoic ledge
you’re not ready for such power draw
You changed my mind, thnx
dusty warren
wheat hatch
eager kite
Power requirements to refine and transport diesel will be phased out with the addition of EV semis though, it's not a one way street when talking about energy requirements
(and obv to get the crude oil in the first place)
civic girder
And you can't have lines for superchargers if they don't exist
Not even the chargers on campus are Tesla superchargers. They're just regular 240v
stoic ledge
Our campus doesn't even have charger of any kind
eager kite
I can't imagine what the lines are at non-Tesla charging stations during holidays when trying to travel in a non-Tesla EV
civic girder
Non-existent
civic girder
Cause who the fuck travels in an EV
dusty warren
new all electrical corsa, 200 miles
eager kite
press F to pay respects to any E-Tron, I-Pace, Taycan, (future) ID.3, Niro, Bolt, Leaf, E-Golf, and i3 owners out there trying to travel on holidays
stoic ledge
Perfectly fine for the price and type of car
Niro basically has the same range as a Model 3 LR
civic girder
80% of the cars you just listed will never be taken on road trips
dusty warren
basically if you’re buying EV buy a tesla
civic girder
False
stoic ledge
False
eager kite
yea cause most of those are either super expensive work cars or shitty city cars for the middle class
stoic ledge
@eager kite what's your car? What do you drive?
civic girder
If I was buying an EV, it most definitely would not be a Tesla
stoic ledge
You never posted anything about it
eager kite
Recently got a Model 3, and no I don't post much about it cause no reason to
civic girder
🤔
stoic ledge
I actually like to take delivery of my car in 1 piece Also I don't like to get a text message on the day before delivery, being unsure about the date until then
eager kite
if you want an EV city car to drive around town in, you don't need a Tesla
civic girder
I also don't like it when my car texts me saying it's broken
eager kite
if you want a cool car that you can actually go places in and has cutting edge things like FSD, then you get a Tesla
civic girder
If I want a cool car that can go places: RX-7
civic girder
And technically, it is cutting edge
dusty warren
rotary. very reliable yes.
eager kite
stoic ledge
not people killers
OOF best argument
civic girder
Right
eager kite
gotta slip a meme in once and a while
civic girder
Also the "reliability" argument
wheat hatch
"Once in a while"
civic girder
You can't say rotaries are unreliable if you've never had one
dusty warren
they’re notorious for lasting the least amount of time
eager kite
true
civic girder
@dusty warren
Rotaries have a shorter service life, yes. But that don't mean you can't go 200k on one
civic girder
Lmao
dusty warren
imagine being pushed into recession by a guy who made “The Boring Company”
eager kite
couldn't be me
civic girder
Because a company putting an entire country's economy down is a good thing
eager kite
oh it's not a good thing
dusty warren
it’s germany, fuck em
eager kite
It's sad that it's come to this
dusty warren
2 world wars they can start making new better cars to bring them back
eager kite
If only German auto companies had started work on actual EVs when Tesla did instead of ignoring it and waiting close to a decade before scrambling to try and respond
civic girder
Yea, I'm sure that's the reason
wheat hatch
Well this escalated lol
civic girder
Makes perfect sense what the fuck is this logic
eager kite
not sure what else it would be
their sales are tanking, they're needing to cut millions of employees to stay profitable....
wheat hatch
Shoutout to the germans in this discord, you cool
civic girder
That's some very narrow thinking right therr
eager kite
I mean ofc there are other factors in play
dusty warren
all i’m saying is they’ll be fine they’ve gone through 2 world wars when their economy was much worse than this
eager kite
but Tesla is having a noticeable impact in their domestic and global sales
civic girder
You know how much shit affects an economy? The automotive industry would have to completely disappear overnight to have a noticeable effect
eager kite
uuuh
dusty warren
not for germany
civic girder
At least on a large scale
eager kite
if the automotive industry disappeared Germany would collapse
civic girder
Not necessarily
eager kite
The vast majority of its economy is dependent upon their auto industry
civic girder
I somehow doubt that
I could see "large portion", but I don't see their entire economy being supported by it
I mean, German cars aren't cheap. If they were truly that reliant on global sales, they wouldn't have been in good economic standing for a while
round turtle
Vast majority is a vast lie
stoic ledge
Tesla Model 3 registrations in 🇳🇱
civic girder
Lmao
wheat hatch
Let's hope Germany's economy doesn't collapse
Would cause a whole lot of other problems
But I bet Mr. NF "It’s germany, fuck em" Cloud would love to see millions of people in misery
fair bronze
civic girder
There's 16 Tesla superchargers across my entire state
Good luck
Traveling through
indigo coral
I've never had to wait in a long line for gas
Maybe like... 5 cars at costco
But that's cause they've got extra cheap gas
round turtle
I can't remember a time I had to wait at all at a gasstation
eager kite
5% of Germany's GDP comes directly from the auto industry. Much more of its service industry is dependent upon that 5%. (the service industry is 65% of Germany's GDP).
You only need a small dip in the country's GDP to start a chain reaction, causing on the low end a recession, and at the high end a full scale depression.
indigo coral
Plus, it takes 5 minutes to put gas in a car, not 2 hours to charge.
eager kite
idk where this 2 hour number comes from...
fair bronze
Even 30 minutes
civic girder
I mean
fair bronze
Still at least 6 cars could’ve filled up in that time
wheat hatch
Let's stick to talking about cars instead of hoping for a country's downfall @eager kite
eager kite
16 supercharger locations means it's probably pretty easy to get through
civic girder
The EV chargers on campus have a 4 hour parking limit for a reason lmao
eager kite
considering those are likely all on interstates
civic girder
Like, those chargers are probably clustered within 3 or 4 major cities. No small cities or even stops along major highways will have them
eager kite
which state are we talking about? @civic girder
civic girder
Ohio
round turtle
Also talking about german car manufacturers; I doubt that they will fall
they are a bit late to the party, but they did survive the 2008 crisis without a bail out
round turtle
something you can't claim of the US car manufacturies
civic girder
Tru
round turtle
However just betting on EV cars for the future is also idiotic
Batteries ain't cheap or environment friendly
indigo coral
Admit that charging infrastructure is horribly inefficient and insufficient for even the demands we've got now. It's got decades to go before it's adequate enough for a majority share of EV owners
@eager kite
eager kite
Quite a few locations in Ohio, some around cities and others around the interstates
shouldn't be too hard to cross in a Tesla
eager kite
Inefficient?
eager kite
I think you just mean insufficient
indigo coral
no, it's not efficient to have people waiting an hour to then plugin and wait an hour
I don't mean efficient on electricity, I mean time efficient
eager kite
that's rare
indigo coral
Not really
eager kite
yea really
literally only happens at certain locations on things like holidays
And usually Tesla responds to these things by adding more chargers in these areas, which is why you see groupings of them in cities where usually this happens
Also they have these mobile charger trailers that they've been testing out in California that seem to be working pretty well
I definitely agree that the network is insufficient for the continued growth of EVs
round turtle
Too bad that Tesla cars ain't of the quality they claim to be
eager kite
I love the bait comments like that
round turtle
Ain't bait
eager kite
it's bait
round turtle
Ain't bait, it's truth
eager kite
deflect the current conversation to try and pick at something else
frame it in a baity way
cmon man
eager kite
Been on the internet for more than a day
round turtle
I had no part in chargers distance and wait times discussion
eager kite
?
oh I get what you were trying to say
doesn't really matter if you were in that convo
round turtle
It does, at least for a part
It's nice that Tesla is installing super chargers and such
but those have also their downside(s)
However Tesla has two bigger downsides
their build quality ain't great
and they are promoting EV Vehicles as the end all solution of vehicle polution
eager kite
I mean, build quality can always improve for any company. Tesla's is certainly better than Ford and GM though lol. It's not the best in the industry, but better than average imo
and yes, EV's are the best solution for personal vehicle pollution to date.
round turtle
Never heard of hydrogen cars? never heard what it takes to make a battery?
eager kite
never heard of how terribly inefficient hydrogen cars are?
round turtle
Also yes, it's well known that US build cars are shit, this includes Tesla
eager kite
Hydrogen will be good for shipping
round turtle
Only a bit less inefficient a EV car
stoic ledge
Bwah Hydrogen is kinda inefficient to make
eager kite
Hydrogen is super inefficient
round turtle
if you take 4 year old technology yes
stoic ledge
Still doesn't mean I don't see a future in it
eager kite
barely better than ICEV over the entire cycle
no, modern hydrogen fuel cell cars
also, most hydrogen comes from natural gas
stoic ledge
Just run ICEV on hydrogen
eager kite
which still produces tons of CO2 in the formation process
so not clean, not cheap, not efficient
stoic ledge
Not necessarily
eager kite
basically shit
stoic ledge
It can be 100% green
round turtle
Hell they are researching the shit out for making it 100% green
eager kite
yea it can, but it won't and even if it was you could power 2 EVs with the same amount of green energy than 1 hydrogen car
eager kite
Hydrogen will be used for long term storage applications like on freight ships
stoic ledge
Build enough nuclear power plants and even that won't be an issue
eager kite
not much else
Planes, trucks, cars, trains, etc. will all be EVs because they are just more efficient than hydrogen
round turtle
Planes?
eager kite
yes planes
round turtle
Do you know how heavy batteries are?
round turtle
Hydrogen is way lighter
eager kite
oh yea the hydrogen is lighter
but
ever weighed a compressed hydrogen tank?
those boys are thicc
literally, the walls on those tanks are very very thick
and if you go the cryogenic route lol, try packing enough insulation into an aircraft to not cover the entire plane in ice and freeze all the passengers and keep it light
round turtle
You know that planes tend to cruise at altitudes at heights where everything is freezing
eager kite
The nice thing about aviation fuel and batteries is that they don't really care what shape their storage tanks are
compressed/cryogenic fuels do
stoic ledge
A gas fuel tank is much lighter than a battery with the same capacity
round turtle
So isolation is the last thing to worry about
stoic ledge
A hyrdogen gas tank*
round turtle
Look dude, isolation is the last thing you have to worry about
eager kite
you know the space shuttle external tank was lined with a foot of insulation right?
you know why?
because you have to worry about insulation when talking about -252 C fuels
Current aircraft basically use the skin of the wings as part of the tanks
this helps them save weight and increase the volume they can store fuel in
you absolutely cannot do this with cryogenic hydrogen
you would build up a massive layer of ice on the surface of the wings making them not useful at producing lift, you know, their entire point of existence
and, you would heat up your cryogenic fuel turning it into a very flammable gas that has an invisible flame
density of hydrogen as a liquid is ~1000x more than when in a gas phase
round turtle
thinking that airfuel just sits in a wing
civic girder
Wtf kind of car is this
round turtle
without any other protection
eager kite
there isn't lmao
dusty warren
i come into the cars chat and ya’ll talking about fuel for aircraft
eager kite
do you know anything about aircraft???
Ever wonder what the red/black lines are on the tops of aircraft wings?
it's literally there to show ground crew where the fuel tanks are
and where ice buildup is most likely to occur due to cold fuel
like bruh
civic girder
I know that wings are not just full of fuel. Sure, they have fuel tanks inside, but they don't take up all that much space
round turtle
Mister Aeriel wants to tell me it's not like that
That Fuel just freely flows in the wing
civic girder
You still need space for structural support, and control surfaces
round turtle
I can understand his point though
eager kite
civic girder
If wings were fuel tanks, we'd be using black magic to fly
round turtle
Kersosine doesn't need the amount of protection hydrogen needs
eager kite
all modern aircraft use integral fuel tanks as it decreases the dry mass of the aircraft, thus reducing fuel usage and therefor fuel costs to airlines
round turtle
But still doesn't mean that hydrogen is not acceptable for use in aircrafts
hell it's better than those way heavier batteries
civic girder
true
eager kite
again, please explain how you will fit thicc af tanks into the aircraft without making it unflyable, or please explain to me how you will install a cryogenic system into the aircraft without needing a massive amount of insulation
civic girder
its a tradeoff
stoic ledge
Works on my machine
round turtle
- you don't need crazy amounts of isolations
eager kite
no, the wet mass is lower than if it didn't have integral fuel tanks
because the dry mass of the aircraft is lower, you can have smaller tanks
which in it of itself has weight savings
civic girder
bruh
eager kite
our old buddy calculus tells you where the suite spot is
civic girder
removing dry mass to add wet mass
eager kite
if you keep the same wing size sure
civic girder
the net weight is going to be roughly the same, you just end up with more fuel
eager kite
but you don't need to
civic girder
what?
eager kite
ok, let me explain this more simply
lets say I have an older aircraft with a light alloy tank, and it can fly 5000 miles
round turtle
Also Aerial you seem to be consfusing Compressed hydrogen with Liquid hydrogen
civic girder
yea, I was gonna say
eager kite
if I replace the wings with integral fuel tank wings and keep them the same size, then the plane (due to having a lower dry weight) will be able to fly farther
say, 6000 miles
or, I could make the wings smaller, coming back to the original tank volume but still having less dry mass
night current
Wouldn't fuel be heavier?
civic girder
if you changed the wing size on an existing aircraft you'd fuck it up
eager kite
so then I still only have 5000 miles of range but I burn less fuel
yes you would have more fuel which is heavier, but the more fuel can propel you a lot further @night current
civic girder
planes have tighter tolerances than cars do, lmao
eager kite
for rockets this is part of the rocket equation
yes ofc this example isn't actually possible to an existing plane, we're talking about why manufacturers went to integral fuel tanks
it saves them and the airlines money
because it's more efficient
civic girder
@round turtle yea, he is. If all hydrogen systems were liquid, we couldn't have hydrogen fuel cell cars and Mazda couldn't have run a rotary engine on hydrogen gas
eager kite
@round turtle no I didn't confuse compressed hydrogen and liquid hydrogen. I mentioned both separately and explained the challenges of doing either one of them.
civic girder
dry weight is cheaper
round turtle
Dude you just went on a rant how much isloation is needed
eager kite
yes, for liquid hydrogen
round turtle
with space shuttle and everything
civic girder
the airlines want to save money sure, but the manufacturers don't give two shits about the airlines. Airlines are gonna buy the planes anyways
round turtle
You didn't gave me space to talk about anything
eager kite
space shuttle used liquid hydrogen
civic girder
the airlines want to save money sure, but the manufacturers don't give two shits about the airlines. Airlines are gonna buy the planes anyways
round turtle
you just went straight to liquid hydrogen
civic girder
^
eager kite
bruh we're in a text channel nothing is stopping you from typing lmao
round turtle
and complaining about isolation
I like to follow the story of someone
Because otherwise we both just get confused
eager kite
@civic girder ah yes that totally is the case, not like manufacturers can go bankrupt from making shitty planes or anything
civic girder
if the planes are actually shitty, sure
eager kite
@round turtle ok well I'm pretty sure I separated both pretty well, compressed hydrogen and liquid hydrogen both have their flaws, one is a cryogenic and one isn't
round turtle
If Boeing and Airbus just worked together they coudl fuck over the industry
however that is really non car subject
civic girder
but if the only thing "wrong" with them is higher fuel costs, that's no reason for the manufacturers to go bankrupt
eager kite
except many national and international laws forbid them to do so
civic girder
hydrogen is dumb for cars, honestly
eager kite
@civic girder if one is a higher fuel cost, the airlines will not buy that one and will go for the other's planes
eager kite
especially on large scale
round turtle
I doubt that EV only cars is good for the planet
round turtle
because of the shit we need in batteries
civic girder
@eager kite not necessarily. If the higher fuel cost plane can still fly farther, travel at higher speed, or carry more passengers, it'll still get bought.
eager kite
you can readily make it from zapping water or steam reforming natural gas
but one uses a fuck ton more energy and the other produces a large amount of greenhouse gasses and uses a fuckton of energy
round turtle
Hydrogen is the most found molecule in the world, it's way more common then lithium
eager kite
bruh not hydrogen pairs that you need
ofc hydrogen is found everywhere because water is found everywhere
problem is you need to make hydrogen gas to do anything useful with it
civic girder
getting enough hydrogen to power a car costs a lot
round turtle
Let's restate it; we can just produce hydrogen
eager kite
waaay more than electricity
round turtle
we can't produce just lithium
eager kite
yes, and use a fuck ton of energy
round turtle
again there have been some huge strides in making hydrogen more efficiently
eager kite
bruh we have multiple times over the amount of lithium to replace all cars on the road today with EVs
supply is not an issue
cost is atm
stoic ledge
LPG still cheaper than EV
runs
eager kite
thankfully, cost is going down
civic girder
Like, even if you were to make a self sustainment system for a car to generate its own Hydrogen, the energy requirement and production wouldn't be enough to keep the car running
eager kite
lol @stoic ledge
round turtle
But then EV cars should be able to make their own electricty etc if you come with that argument
eager kite
yes, hydrogen fuel cells are pretty efficient
the problem is making hydrogen in the first place
civic girder
^
civic girder
compressing and transporting is easy
eager kite
no not really
round turtle
yes
eager kite
takes a significant chunk of energy to compress hydrogen
civic girder
it's making enough to provide fuel for a car
round turtle
you can basically use the current network of gas/diesel
eager kite
or to compress any gas really
round turtle
sure it costs energy
but the same goes for getting the elctricity to the charging station
eager kite
Currently, hydrogen is typically compressed by a reciprocal compressor. At the flow
rates and pressures for 1,000 kg/day hydrogen refueling stations, these compressors can
achieve an isentropic efficiency of about 56% and a motor efficiency of 92% [5]. Using
these values, the H2A Delivery Scenario Model (HDSAM) projects a refueling station
compression energy efficiency of 52% to fill 350 and 49% for 700 bar vehicles.
52% to 49% efficient....
stoic ledge
Yeah roughly 50%
eager kite
very efficient....
stoic ledge
That's been known for hydrogen
civic girder
I never said it was efficient
I just said it was easy
and the energy cost for compressing hydrogen is also far lower than the actual production of the hydrogen
stoic ledge
We can even transport it to homes over the existing natural gas lines
civic girder
^
eager kite
yes but natural gas molecules are a lot larger than H2 molecules
round turtle
still it ain't a problem
civic girder
if hydrogen leaks that easily, than hydrogen cars are not feasible
even though hydrogen cars are feasible
(despite the hydrogen supply problem)
round turtle
I live in a country where natural gas is the main fuel for cooking and heating
civic girder
The main thing is, we just need more ethanol fuel
round turtle
independent experts and the natural gas companies stated that switching to hydrogen would be easy
eager kite
"easy"
round turtle
when looking at current infrastructure
stoic ledge
> I live in a country where natural gas is the main fuel for cooking and heating
Willem county?
round turtle
Yep 😛
stoic ledge
Nice 🤜
round turtle
🤛
civic girder
casually researching converting to e85 on a carbureted engine
eager kite
hydrogen cars don't leak much because they have been designed to hold high pressure hydrogen gas in them
stoic ledge
Transporting gaseous hydrogen via existing pipelines is a low-cost option for delivering large volumes of hydrogen. The high initial capital costs of new pipeline construction constitute a major barrier to expanding hydrogen pipeline delivery infrastructure. Research today therefore focuses on overcoming technical concerns related to pipeline transmission, including:```
hell it's so easy that there are companies offering hydrogen manufacturing stations at homes, using internal gas pipes, if you really don't want to switch to induction cooking or less than great heating solutions
eager kite
"The high initial capital costs of new pipeline construction constitute a major barrier to expanding hydrogen pipeline delivery infrastructure."
basically, replacing all seals on existing piping so it can be rated for hydrogen
civic girder
🤔 It seems like I could fairly easily convert my RX-7 to E85
round turtle
the same goes to expending natural gas pipelines
civic girder
that's cause the US doesn't care
eager kite
2.3% of natural gas produced each year gets leaked
round turtle
in the USA
civic girder
we could fix that if we wanted to
eager kite
this can only go higher if you move to an even harder to contain gas like hydrogen
civic girder
but you really think states are going to bother spending that much money
round turtle
if this happened in the Netherlands, Groningen would have bene more pissed off than they already are
indigo coral
eager kite
oh yea but they aren't going to fix it
indigo coral
Side note: that thing is sexy
eager kite
just like how they aren't going to switch to hydrogen
because it's not economical to do so
stoic ledge
Genesis is sexy
indigo coral
That wagon looks amazing
round turtle
what car is that?
stoic ledge
But a Genesis G70 wagon with GV70 styling elements?
civic girder
imo that's a wagon, not a shooting brake, but ok
stoic ledge
Designers would like you to believe it's a shooting brake xD
indigo coral
either way it looks amazing
Make it drive the same as the g70 sedan and you've got a winter
Winner*
round turtle
hmmm not sold in Europe except Russia
civic girder
So yea, it really sounds like I could run my RX-7 on E85 by simply upgrading the fuel pump and retuning the carb
stoic ledge
Russia != Europe xD
civic girder
though I'd probably have to get an O2 sensor to accurately tune the carb since E85 is much different than gas
round turtle
the only part of Russia you should care about is in Europe
just luckily not in the EU
civic girder
whereas with gas, you can just tune by ear and the tachometer
stoic ledge
Well basically yes
civic girder
I've tuned my car that way, lol
It's one of the biggest reasons why I like carbs far more than efi
civic girder
Like, instead of getting an expensive ECU, and getting/learning the software or taking your car to a dyno and pay a tuner to do it for you
stoic ledge
Yeah no mine can't be tuned like that
civic girder
you just grab a screwdriver, warm up the motor, and start spinning screws until the tach reads the correct idle speed
round turtle
I love me some Citroën DS cars
stoic ledge
some, yes
round turtle
I am really a sucker for their stylinh
round turtle
too bad it's not the normal styling of citroën
civic girder
This is easy
stoic ledge
Tbh the newer C5 Aircross is nice too
Oof yeah well on no modern car you can do that ^^
round turtle
I see what you mean, in case of the DS3, it's sister C3 looks way nicer
civic girder
like, so what if carb is less efficient
its so easy to deal with, and they're so cheap
stoic ledge
Well the regular DS 3 was nicer than the C3, but with the Crossback/Aircross... NAH
civic girder
and on naturally aspirated motors, EFI is barely better in many cases
stoic ledge
@civic girder imagine living in a country where every gram CO2 is taxed so more expensive injection cars are actually cheaper xD
🙃
civic girder
imagine living in a county/state that doesn't care
round turtle
well if you have a avarage fuel price of $ 7,259/ gallon
civic girder
yikes
round turtle
you want to have effiency
stoic ledge
Just run LPG and get it in Belgium
civic girder
$2.33 a gallon, no emissions restrictions on 25 years or older
round turtle
luckily I can get $6.931/gallon close by
civic girder
And I thought Commiefornia gas was expensive, lol
round turtle
well if I want to I maybe can get it for about $5,619/gallon
civic girder
ah, I see
stoic ledge
Liquified Petroleum Gas
civic girder
can you not get E85?
stoic ledge
E10 🤢
civic girder
E10 is lame
civic girder
my Prius gets lower mpg on E10 vs E5, lmao
round turtle
Haven't tried E5, was advised by the garage to just use E10
and the engine is still reaching it's advertised consumption
despite being from 2009
stoic ledge
I use like 15L of gas every 3000km, so less ethanol is better
civic girder
E10 and E5 are also considered the same thing in the US. Most gas stations won't even tell you which blend their regular is using
stoic ledge
Oof, we make distinction in E5 and E10
civic girder
Yea, it's a gamble on what you will get when you fill up your car here
pumps are labeled Ethanol Content Up To 10%
stoic ledge
Regular is usually 95E10 (or E10), premium is 98E5 (or E5). Some have 95E5, but those are special
98E10 doesn't exist
civic girder
I think medium gas is definitely E5 tho
Premium might be even less ethanol than that
round turtle
and then some gasstations have their own "super great" premium fuel
civic girder
though not many gas stations have medium grade fuel
round turtle
claiming that it will clean your engine etc
round turtle
Only for their premium one, not the cheaper not special one
civic girder
cause higher ethanol content would actually clean your engine more than pure gasoline
E85 can fuck up your fuel system cause it cleans so well, lmao
round turtle
dunno what the difference is, both the premium and no premium E10 fuels tend to be labeled E10 at the pump
round turtle
one with expensive branding, the other not
stoic ledge
Additives mostly
Shell V-Power
That's actually 97
But that's not a thing, so it's 95
But that's not a thing, so it's 95
So regular
We can also get 102 btw (Firezone)
round turtle
any reason as to why go for higher octane rating, as a broke student?
round turtle
Not going to spend several K€ on changing an engine
stoic ledge
You don't have to change the engine
civic girder
If E85 really is as easy to convert to as new fuel lines, fuel reg, fuel pump, and carb retune, then fuck I might actually do it
round turtle
I am very happy with my C1 with 1.0L engine 😛
stoic ledge
Oof C1
Driven the Aygo and 107, hated it xD
Changing gears is like stirring soup xD
round turtle
I have the luxurious version, with airco, electric windows and.....
stoic ledge
4 speakers
round turtle
a tacho meter!
round turtle
damn that's the really really basic one
stoic ledge
Sounds like quality
round turtle
IIRC the basic first gen Citroën C1 had central locking
like mine
however only at the driver side
the passenger side only locks that side
stoic ledge
Idk this one was a Cool & Sound iirc, meaning it had a) AC and b) a radio with 2 speakers. That's it, nothing else
Only 2 airbags
round turtle
I have to dig which version my one specific is
I wanted a small car, was already interested in a C1 (or any of it sisters)
stoic ledge
I was glad I could have mine back after 5 days xD
round turtle
and this one was for sale at the local very trusted garage
but the interior screams, small cheap car build in the crisis of 2008.
stoic ledge
Yes
round turtle
The new C1 looks great, to bad it's 7K above budget 😛
stoic ledge
Acceleration wasn't to bad, but probably since I was doing 64886486468 rpm since there's no tach
round turtle
Yeah if going under 80kph, you need to rev it to 4k+ rpm to have decent acceleration
you won't win against a BMW at a traffic light, but you will win against 70% of all other drivers
I tend to go gear 1, 2, 4 and 5 when going from full stop to highway speed
round turtle
So yours also has no decent power after 80kph 😛
lethal garnet
bruh the one day i come to campus early to get a charging spot, the only one “available” is out of service
round turtle
Be happy you do have a spot
@stoic ledge NOICE. I don't like driving above 130kph, too much consumption and noise
round turtle
That hurts my wallet, despite me not paying your gas
indigo coral
Lol
fathom socket
should we just rename cars channel into Citroen c1s?
stoic ledge
No
night current
No
fair bronze
No
The old 107/C1/Aygo was terrible but the 2nd generation 108/C1/Aygo is much better in terms of build quality
Those new ones are actually quite fun to drive as well imo
civic spoke
Alright. Question. We all know that every engine out there burns oil. But how much is acceptable?
civic spoke
So that is a quart in roughly how many miles?
civic spoke
My E46 has burnt maybe half a quart in around 8,000 miles.
fathom socket
You're fine
stoic ledge
Perfectly fine yes
civic spoke
Because I have other people saying otherwise. 
stoic ledge
🤔
A quart is basically 1L, right?
And 8000 miles 12-13k km
So 500ml in 12000km is nothing
1L/1000km is in VWs factory spec 
civic girder
as far as I can tell, the 1NZ in my Prius doesn't burn oil at all
like, it would have to be such a small amount that you wouldn't notice
Cause I've gone well over 10k miles without even checking the oil, and its basically at full when I check right before the oil change
stoic ledge
Well you should check fluids regularly 😛
civic spoke
The TL;DR is that you should change your oil when your manufacturere recommends it. Which is basically once a year, or every X distance.
civic spoke
It's 15k miles for my car. My oil still looks pretty good after 8k miles.
stoic ledge
18k miles for mine But I change it once a year (10k miles)
dense shard
Never got the time thing tbh.
stoic ledge
I take it in every year for the inspection etc, get it serviced then as well
The maintenance scheme for most cars are also xxx miles or x year(s)
civic spoke
Yeah.
fathom socket
I change my oil 4 times a year
deep hound
i change my oil every year or so kekw
shrewd shell
My BMW's maintenance checker says I should change the oil every 15k miles which is about 1 and a half years
I have a tune installed so I should probably change it earlier lol
indigo coral
Mine burns oil a bit inconsistently, but seems to average around 1 quart per 5k
Which isn't that bad for a 21y/o engine with high miles
Was using more because it was leaking like crazy from vcg but that's fixed now
I've been aiming to change every 5k
fathom socket
Your head gasket might be on it's way out. It might be leaking when the engine runs cold but seals up ok after it heats up.
Though It might also be just a BMW thing
indigo coral
who
me?
Mine tends to do it when you're cruise controlling on the highway at a constant speed
Since it's a 4 speed, rpms are quite high
It's not a head gasket thing
dense shard
Probably just wear and tear.
civic girder
if the Prius is burning oil, its cause I fucked it up
which honestly wouldn't surprise me that much
I haven't actually measured how much oil the RX-7 burns, nor do I measure out my 2 stroke
I do sort of track my mpg in the RX-7, but I don't keep records. I just do the math and reset the trip meter at each fuel stop
civic girder
Last fuel stop I calculated 17mpg
as it turns out, having brakes that don't rub constantly helps increase your fuel efficiency
I'm up 4-5mpg from before my rear brakes were fixed
stoic ledge
@fair bronze nein, in the 2nd gen (idk, 2014-now or something) you could get a 1.2
1st gen, you could also get a 1.4 diesel
(1.2 only in the 108/C1)
dense shard
Just found out my car has a cold air intake... sort of.
I question why the intake tube goes across the front of the car, but it does draw air directly from the outside.
civic girder
Yea, the Prius airbox is galaxy brain as well
the actual intake that initially succs the air is way down near the bottom of the car on the passenger side. That air goes up and into the side of the airbox, where it is then filtered and succed downwards into the intake manifold
dense shard
Well at least modern cars fixed the one biggest issue of engine orientation.
Intake at the front, exhaust at the back.
Instead of the weird intake in the back, and the exhaust is now piped out the front and the exhaust has this weird loop under the engine it has to do.
civic girder
Or just be the big chad and have intake and exhaust on the same side of the engine block
eager kite
ICE people be like:
EmIsSiOnS aReN't A fLaW, iTs A fEaTuRe!1!1
civic girder
because that was most definitely the topic of discussion, lol
eager kite
yep
dense shard
Unburnt hydrocarbons... Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of a carbureted car trying to start on a cold morning.
chilly shell
civic girder
Yea, I love the smell of my RX-7. There's nothing like the hearing the sounds of a carbureted rotary engine combined with the smell of burnt gasoline and 2 stroke oil
Every time I sit in that car, it's like everything is right with the world
the old car smell of the interior, the exhaust smell
chilly shell
I thought that was a miata in the photo