I see... great move reporting function to car in that case.
#cars
dense shard
That way you don't have to account for any loss, and pretty much all cars today have data reporting features.
I remain firmly against taxing by miles.
indigo coral
taxing by miles is dumb
lethal garnet
eager kite
I mean regardless of taxing by fuel or taxing by miles, you're basically getting the same amount of $
thorn drift
VROOM
dusty warren
10/10 for effort azzy
eager kite
stoic ledge
But why
eager kite
more screen real estate = better
their patent goes into more detail on possible applications, application which they probably won't do cause they don't want to give others their ideas before they bring it to market...
stoic ledge
Not so sure about touchscreens on steeringwheels tho, you want to have physical buttons you can operate blind without looking
Being able to control the screens using the steeringwheel is nothing new, Mercedes has it too
And you can use gestures on those pads
But for other functions, you still have physical buttons
eager kite
Um, 99% of the time I don't need to look at my steering wheel to know what buttons to hit because I know where they are
don't see why that would be any different with touch screens
also, this is more "futureproof" for autonomy, where a steering wheel is kind of useless anyway (in terms of driving).
stoic ledge
Yes it's different, because you physically know where each button is. With a touchscreen, you can feel if your finger is over button A or button B on the screen
Ok so how are you going to use the 1" screens on a steeringwheel when the car gets autonomous?
Also: how to indicate?
eager kite
bit bigger than 1", I would hazard a guess that it wouldn't look like your phone home screen with tons of little buttons and shit.
Most thing I think will be gesture based, which also solves the problem of needing to know where buttons are
stoic ledge
But then it won't be really that difference than for example Mercedes' system, which can also use gestures
eager kite
yes they both will use gestures, but one has the ability to display and one doesn't
which can be helpful for lots of auxiliary information which doesn't need to be put on the main screen(s)
especially when its autonomously driving
Like for example, right now a lot of warning stuff needs dedicated screen space on the main screen in Teslas. If you had this steering wheel, a bunch of it could be transferred onto the steering wheel, freeing other screen space up for other shit.
drifting mantle
I very much would prefer physical buttons n’ selectors for stuff.
Things where I can just reach for them without looking, and know I’m doing what I want without taking my eyes off the road.
I’m sure they’d put some safety stuff so you can’t accidentally switch to reverse when going on the highway. But ehh.
Even at work, I don’t have to look at my terminal when it throws up an error. I just listen to what kind of beep it makes, and what the scanner is doing, to understand what button to press, while I continue to move a box or walk around.
I miss physical left and right clicks on laptops xD
stoic ledge
Idk what info needs to be displayed on anything other then the "main screens"
Warning stuff should be right in the line of sight, not lower down on the steeringwheel. Tbh, when driving, it's possible I wouldn't even notice it
eager kite
look, the only reason this is being made is for L4 autonomy where a steering wheel is needed. Right now it's a dumb steering wheel. They're trying to make it a not dumb steering wheel so it can be used for shit.
And again, if it's all gestures or simple actions, then it would be second nature, just like today its second nature to press a button
It's not about needing to be displayed on another screen, it's about freeing up screen space for other shit
like right now, unless the car isn't moving, the center screen in a 3 is required by law to reserve part of the screen for all warnings and messages, meaning nothing can be put there while in motion.
If the steering wheel had screens on it, then they could be used instead for many of those warnings, meaning the main screen can be entirely used for other things.
stoic ledge
But why not use a single screen in front of the gauges, which can display everything from speed, gear mode, warnings etc 🙃 Why complicate it by using 3 more screens on a steeringwheel for which you have to look down and get your eyes of thebroad whenever a message pops up
We shall see when it hits production, if it ever makes it that far
eager kite
because a dashboard is a poor way to transfer information, plus increases cost of entire dash and isn't useful when you have autonomy cause no one wants to look through their steering wheel to see shit
and you don't have any way to use gesture controls
stoic ledge
So nobody want to look through the steeringwheel, but they want to look at the wheel itself?
Adding a screen to a dash isn't really expensive btw
Not if you just slap it on Model 3 style
eager kite
yea but we're talking about one being useful and not look like shit
and one for the person in the drivers seat as that's the most occupied seat...
can't just take up all of your forward view or be coming off the ceiling or some shit
and again, those wouldn't have any touch control capability like they would on a steering wheel
stoic ledge
yea but we're talking about one being useful and not look like shit
So you're saying the Model 3 screen looks like shit?
can't just take up all of your forward view or be coming off the ceiling or some shit
If you can see the screen through the steeringwheel you don't loose forward view
eager kite
ah the infamous, "so you're saying"...
you need to make an area for that dash screen to sit in, that takes up forward view
tbh Tesla center screen style is probably the best way to get a large 16:9 screen into a car.
but yea, I think it makes sense to offer a steering wheel like this as an add-on for the cheaper cars, and come standard with higher end like S and X.
declutter center screen without messing up design of the cars, add more functionality, and prob other stuff I haven't thought of lol
damn EQC looks so dated compared to X, even though X is like 5 years old while the EQC is basically brand new.
stoic ledge
How come 👀
wheat hatch
civic girder
One of my biggest beefs with Teslas is the interior design. It's trash
zero thought went into it
I can make a Tesla interior in my driveway
Step 1: Acquire an iPad
Step 2: Acquire Tape
Step 3: Acquire car charger
Step 4: tape the iPad to the center console
Step 5: plug in the charger to give it power and then tape the chord out of the way
and then its just as easy to emulate most other modern car interiors:
tape a phone to the top of the dash
Second beef with Tesla is the "self driving"
Nah, more like assisted driving.
eager kite
Dunning Kruger strikes again
civic girder
They could improve it by a lot by putting the speedo in a sensical place
eager kite
Literally in the most sensible place already but k
civic girder
wot
indigo coral
L4 autonomy isn't coming for 30 years in any safe manner
civic girder
by sensible you mean outside your field of view?
eager kite
wanna bet money on that? @indigo coral
@civic girder no worse than driving with a dashboard
indigo coral
Autopilot isn't a safe system
civic girder
it is worse
eager kite
safer than humans
eager kite
I mean, statistics tell a different story
civic girder
yea, the autopilot is not safe, at all
indigo coral
not independently
eager kite
Yes, independently
eager kite
you can look at rates of crashes with only human drivers and then human drivers + safety systems, then human drivers + safety systems + autonomous software
civic girder
and yes, the Teslas are worse than gauge clusters
indigo coral
How many times has it screwed up and the owner had to frantically take over
if autopilot was by itself they'd be dead.
civic girder
Instead of moving my eyes a fraction of an inch to check my speed, I have to move my entire head to check my speed
eager kite
@civic girder for your eyes, having the screen farther away actually reduces time for you to refocus, so...
civic girder
so I'm right then
because having a gigantic tablet that is actually closer to you is worse than a gauge cluster sunk into the dash
eager kite
bruh moment when angles are now measured in inches..
the top corner of the screen is farther from you than a traditional dashboard lmao have u ever sat in a Model 3?
@indigo coral and the reverse can be said way more
civic girder
Which top corner?
Sure the passenger side is farther, but if that's where your speedo is, than the UI design is even worse than. The interior
stoic ledge
Autopilot != Autonomous, it's driving assistance 
eager kite
@civic girder please don't talk about interior designs of a car if you don't even know what their layout is...
civic girder
Lmao
eager kite
Also have heard very few complaints online from owners about the speedometer being on the center screen
civic girder
Probably because they refuse to admit they made a bad purchase. Usually how things go
eager kite
No like I hear the opposite, how it was easy for them to transition looking at it on the center screen
civic girder
Anyways, I gotta go. Texting and driving is bad.
eager kite
and talking
civic girder
Wot
eager kite
talking on phone while driving is bad
civic girder
Idk where I said anything about that, but ok
civic girder
Well, it was unnecessary.
civic girder
Now, with my screen that isn't directly next to my steering wheel, I depart.
eager kite
@stoic ledge It's more than driving assistance. Doesn't assist the driver while they drive, it drives itself and the driver gets to relax and monitor.
stoic ledge
No, the driver shouldn't relax. That's where it goes wrong
The driver should still pay full attention
eager kite
Ok but there's a difference between being mentally attentive and physically attentive. (that auto correct tho)
When you're manually driving your car, you're paying attention to the road, but you're also planning how to move through traffic, where your next exit is, if you need to pass the car in front of you, etc.
Then, you have to physically carry out all those decisions
Whereas with Tesla's system, you are still supposed to pay attention to your surroundings, but you no longer are tasked with making all the small decisions or making the inputs to the car.
Thus, the driver can relax from performing all duties of operating the vehicle, and instead focus on monitor the vehicle and the surroundings, far less taxing.
As I've argued before, it's basically L4 autonomy but with a software handicap requiring an attentive person in the drivers seat for safety.
stoic ledge
But it's not really L4 tho imho
Level 4 ("mind off"): As level 3, but no driver attention is ever required for safety, e.g. the driver may safely go to sleep or leave the driver's seat. Self-driving is supported only in limited spatial areas (geofenced) or under special circumstances. Outside of these areas or circumstances, the vehicle must be able to safely abort the trip, e.g. park the car, if the driver does not retake control.
Geofenced or under special circumstances, like highways probably? It does not yet detect closed lanes etc (closed highway lanes are dedicated with matrix signes above the highway here), it doesn't work when their are sudden roadworks etc.
It's still just L2
Level 2 ("hands off"): The automated system takes full control of the vehicle: accelerating, braking, and steering. The driver must monitor the driving and be prepared to intervene immediately at any time if the automated system fails to respond properly. The shorthand "hands off" is not meant to be taken literally – contact between hand and wheel is often mandatory during SAE 2 driving, to confirm that the driver is ready to intervene.
eager kite
But there is more functionality than what L2 describes
Lane changes, slower traffic overtaking, traffic merging, off-ramp to on-ramp continuously, automatic exit taking, automatic navigation...
All these things are required for L4 on the highway
stoic ledge
Sure, but it doesn't fully comply to L4, not even L3 I'd say
eager kite
the only thing stopping Tesla's system today from getting an L4 certification is their software requirement that the driver continues to pay attention.
stoic ledge
But like I said: it doesn't watch for closed lanes etc. So you can't sleep, so it can't be L4
eager kite
Yes it does, Teslas have gone through construction zones on AP...
stoic ledge
Maybe US <-> EU, but here they don't
eager kite
And also, that isn't necessarily required for an L4 classification because construction is a different environment than standard highway operations.
stoic ledge
Lanes can close at any time on a highway
eager kite
oh yea EU AP is severely restricted due to your boneheaded regulations
eager kite
yep, is probably already in Tesla software
already have stop sign and street light recognition, not that much harder to add a database of what road close signs look like
stoic ledge
The sign recognition is also not flawless I've noticed
eager kite
as with all software
stoic ledge
It suggested I should do 80km/h in a 30km/h residential zone
Ofcourse it can make mistakes, but that's why you monitor it
eager kite
were you trying to use AP in a residential zone?
And the metric we should care about isn't if it ever fails, rather what is the rate of failure
if it's even slightly better than humans driving alone, then it should be supported and adopted
stoic ledge
No not autopilot in residential zone, but it still reads the sign iirc
And I'm not saying it's bad technology, I'm just saying it still needs to be monitored all the time
eager kite
mm, well again you do have the EU version of AP so...
stoic ledge
Not only Tesla's, but also every other brand
eager kite
Yea I'm not saying make them fully autonomous tomorrow
civic girder
So you mean to tell me that an iPad Pro slapped onto my center console is better design and easier to see?
eager kite
but imo it's basically a software limited L4
civic girder
please
I've never seen a traditional gauge cluster that's that close to the driver before
the depth is hard to get in that image, but its not really that far away from the driver
eager kite
it's literally like an inch off the dash...
stoic ledge
I prefer straight ahead in the line of vision, but that's a personal preference.
Next car: heads up display
eager kite
a traditional dashboard would be around the same distance, however it would be integrated into the actual dash, thus making it not look as close
civic girder
Lets take a trip to 2009. Where digi dashes aren't garbage and iPads aren't the new hip center console thing yet
eager kite
bruh that's one of the worst interiors I've seen
civic girder
pffffffft
stoic ledge
:Pogey:
civic girder
lmfao
eager kite
wtf is up with all that dead space right in front of the driver
civic girder
is there a problem with that?
stoic ledge
Tesla Model 3 has 100% dead space in front of the driver (?)
night current
Prius interiors are kinda yucky, at least it has its gauges in front of you though
eager kite
yes it's a big fucking lump of dead space
model 3 doesn't rise up like that in front of the driver
civic girder
the 3rd gen Prius interior is straight trash.
night current
I can make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in a tesla and Prius 😎
eager kite
like the dead space extents what looks to be multiple inches over the steering wheel
model 3 it doesn't even get 1/2 way up
civic girder
2nd gen Prius interior is pretty good. It's got flaws, but its not as garbo as the Tesla interiors
eager kite
also, it blocks more potential visibility
obv they can't put more bc its a shitty ICE
civic girder
idk man, that looks like a lot of dead space to me
night current
I could prepare a 5 course meal in there!
eager kite
ah yes, ignore the point and focus on 2 words..
stoic ledge
Model 3 looks like a fish bowl from the front xD
obv they can't put more bc its a shitty ICE
civic girder
uh what
night current
You get decent visibility from a fishbowl though
civic girder
what do you even mean
I have literally no idea what you mean by that
ignore the point
how?
eager kite
the point I was making?
civic girder
you didn't make a point as far as I can tell?
eager kite
yes it's a big fucking lump of dead space
model 3 doesn't rise up like that in front of the driver
like the dead space extents what looks to be multiple inches over the steering wheel
model 3 it doesn't even get 1/2 way up
also, it blocks more potential visibility
@civic girder
eager kite
bruh really?
stoic ledge
A lower dash literally wouldn't improve visibility one bit in most cars tbh
civic girder
^
eager kite
imagine literally not reading 1/2 of the point and only focusing on a handful of words...
civic girder
Oh, you like no dead space? This is what happens when you use every inch of interior space
eager kite
@stoic ledge but would have a whole host of engineering benefits if it could.
civic girder
idk about you, but I read all of your words. The rest are relevant by association with the handful of words I brought attention to
eager kite
obv can't cause shitty ICE
civic girder
lmao
stoic ledge
If ICE -> Inferior, we get it
civic girder
eager kite
@civic girder ok then I guess you don't understand words very well, because the part about rising up in front of the driver has context behind it, which is explained in the later posts and already refutes what ur saying
civic girder
lmao
I literally don't see how the Prius has any less visibility
especially considering the Prius has a stubby nose
stoic ledge
but would have a whole host of engineering benefits if it could.
Really depends on the car, lower dash in my literally won't physically fit probably
eager kite
"if it could"
eager kite
Obv Toyota isn't going to pour a ton of money into designing a prius that could sit passengers lower, increase visibility by bringing down the windshield more and removing disgusting dash, removing space-inefficient ICE engine and going entirely electric, etc.
civic girder
They wouldn't do that because there's no reason to
eager kite
basically becomes a Tesla interior and exterior, but shittier because it's supposed to be cheaper
but there obviously is a reason to, otherwise Tesla wouldn't have done it themselves
Main one is price, second is efficiency.
civic girder
The Model 3 dash still climbs up
civic girder
eager kite
"like that"
in reference to the picture you sent
"Model 3 it doesn't even get 1/2 way up"
"it" referring to the dash
"1/2 way up" referencing the dash's height in comparison to the steering wheel's height from center column to the top.
civic girder
Ah, now you see the problem with that argument is that the Model 3 still suffers the same problem. Sure, the Prius dash ends at a much higher point, especially in comparison. But then you realize that the Model 3 is a car that sits lower on the ground already, whereas the Prius is a much taller car. The slope of the dash in the Prius does not impede visibility in the slightest; where the Model 3 sits low and has a stubby front end, visibility is actually much worse
eager kite
Forward visibility in the 3 is very good actually, don't know what you're talking about there
and it's a good thing it is lower and less boxy because it means it's more efficient
and thus costs you even less
and Tesla even less to make
civic girder
can you see the end of the hood from the driver's seat of a Model 3?
civic girder
and how tall are you
eager kite
6' 3" ish
civic girder
hmmmm
I still doubt
lower typically can improve drag coefficient, but almost always reduces visibility at the same time
"less boxy"? The Prius is quite round. And looking at numbers, the Model 3 is barely more aerodynamic than the Prius
eager kite
which is compensated for by the windshield reaching lower than in most cars.
civic girder
I seriously doubt that
eager kite
boxy in terms of frontal area
and making your car lower to the ground also decreases frontal area, thus decreasing drag
civic girder
I still don't know what you mean by boxy. Because if you're calling the blobtastic Prius "boxy", then the Model 3 is boxy by the same definition
eager kite
and yes you can usually get a better Cd
civic girder
what do you mean by decreasing frontal area
eager kite
how much frontal area the car makes up, basically if you look at it from straight on and sketch a 2d shape of what it looks like, that's the frontal area
civic girder
by that definition, I'd think that the height wouldn't matter at that point
because it's just a shape
eager kite
"It physically represents the area as projected right along the velocity vector. If you shone a parallel light right along the velocity vector, the shadow on a wall behind it would be the projected area"
civic girder
aerodynamics take into consideration the ride height of the entire car
eager kite
I mean, yes, it's a part of the Cd and frontal area
civic girder
I'd also like to point out that the Model 3 and Prius have a near identical ground clearance
huh. interesting
The Model 3 has double wishbone and multi-link suspension
no wonder the car is as expensive as it is
eager kite
Tesla doesn't make cheap cars
civic girder
assuming that using different suspension to reduce costs would make the car significantly worse
eager kite
again, there are reasons to not
civic girder
ok, what advantage does double wishbone give you in a non-sporty every day car
multi-link has a variety of uses, so it makes sense
eager kite
I wasn't on the model 3 design team so I can't tell you why they chose that system over another one
but I don't think they just randomly chose to go with it for no good reason
considering the 3 was basically betting the company's continued existence
civic girder
seems like a poor choice to me
had they gone with regular coilovers they could have reduced costs and pushed more units
eager kite
Why don't you try and find one of the Tesla engineer who worked on the 3 and ask them why they chose to go with that system
dense shard
Suspension design doesn't dictate price
civic girder
not really, no
dense shard
Looking at you Porsche and BMW
civic girder
the cost reduction in the end price wouldn't be massive
but you do have to think about it, because double wishbone suspension is expensive
dense shard
My Corolla has an identical setup to a 911 turbo
eager kite
And I guarantee you that they didn't just pick a suspension design out of a hat
civic girder
Just saying, there's no need for it. They probably chose that type for the performance model, but because of the nature of how double wishbone works, they can't change it for the base model; so unfortunately, the base model ends up overpriced and with unnecessary suspension.
civic girder
I mean, if you don't need it for the application it just adds extra costs where there doesn't need to be
dense shard
You can absolutely have a too good setup.
Over priced, extra upkeep, and more weight where it's not needed.
civic girder
Like, just look at cars like the NA Miata and FB RX-7. They are outstandingly cheap, yet they are really good at what they do
nothing says cheap like rear drum brakes and solid axle on a sports car
carmine summit
Ah yes, this topic again
stoic ledge
Rear drums are fine for light cars, most braking is done on the front
dense shard
drums are a remnant of the 19th century that has no place in modern cars.
stoic ledge
Yet nearly all cars still have them, if not as handbrake only
dense shard
dunno about all cars. US market has moved on to disc brakes out back.
Even for handbrake duty.
stoic ledge
Disc brakes as hand brakes 
that's just bad
dense shard
Mine has an actuator that makes loud whirring noises when I press the button.
stoic ledge
https://www.howacarworks.com/illustration/1938/brake-drum-within-disc.png
Probably a drum inside the disc
indigo coral
mine is a foot-pedal ebrake
stoic ledge
Or a seperate drum behind it
dense shard
That's such a clunky solution.
indigo coral
Would a sticky caliper be uneconomical to fix on my car? I know brake system is $$$
indigo coral
Have to replace all 4 at once
indigo coral
According to the manual anything replaced in suspension/wheel/rims etc has to be replaced in every corner because of the AWD system
dense shard
Your brakes aren't going to affect your AWD stuff.
Replacing a wheel shouldn't matter if it's the same.
It's when you get into different diameters such as with new tires... that could cause binding and stresses in the system.
indigo coral
that's why I've not replaced my shitty tires
stoic ledge
Yikes shitty tires
dense shard
cool
unreal terrace
what sort of parking break is this 😛
fathom socket
id say the model 3 could use an optional heads up display
dense shard
It needs it.
eager kite
Useless
unreal terrace
everyones talking about this one pedal driving like its something new, has no one ever driven a forklift? 😛
or the forklift style two pedal driving, one pedal forwards and one pedal backwards
dense shard
One pedal driving has been around before Tesla.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30692406/2021-cadillac-escalade-photos-info/ Speaking of the future.
Welcome Cadillac Escalade to the future of independent rear suspension.
Shame about the move to the e-shifter.
stoic ledge
I quite like it, especially the inside
fair bronze
I don't like their new exterior design language
It looks like a Chevy now
Mostly the headlights tbh
flint sable
Your right
stoic ledge
I'd buy it
flint sable
stoic ledge
Oof when did you take a pic of my car 👀
flint sable
Just today
fair bronze
I think the XT6 looks really cool but the badge doesn't suit the car
Chevy badge would
dusty warren
they’ve gone the sane route as bmw and chevrolet, bigger grill = better car.
indigo coral
I think the xt6 looks pretty dang good for a cadillac
better than the escalade, that thing is ass ugly
lyric tulip
Man I can't wait to get a new car
dense shard
Cadillac lost me with their weird tax code naming scheme.
night current
I can't wait to get a car that has a working speedometer! 😄
dense shard
and yes I'm aware my car is dirty. It's winter, and I have a hatchback.
fathom socket
You clearly haven't seen a dirty vehicle before
fathom socket
Driving down a dirt driveway will make a vehicle dirty
My truck hadn't been washed at all this winter
dense shard
Yes I'm aware.
fathom socket
I feel bad for it with the salt
dense shard
No salt down south happily.
fathom socket
It washes off after it rains
But sometimes it'll go weeks with the salt built up on the paint
devout flax
devout flax
dense shard
I'm probably gonna wax my car come March.
fathom socket
I want to ceramic coat my truck
dense shard
I'm too lazy.
fathom socket
To keep the paint somewhat nice
dense shard
It'll either be nu-finish or a nice synthetic wax.
devout flax
What I want to do is rhino line the trunk on my pickup truck
fathom socket
I know it's a truck and it's gonna get beat up
It has its fair share of scratches
The bed would be all torn up if it weren't for the Line X bedliner I got
fathom socket
Don't buy a diesel if you don't like paying for oil changes
My truck takes a nice 12 quarts of the most expensive Shell Rotella oil
fathom socket
Wait...
dense shard
Not that oil changes are too pricey to begin with.
fathom socket
You have a Corolla hatch?
dense shard
yes
dense shard
nah, hatchback
fathom socket
I like the hatchback better
dense shard
It's the better looking car imo
fathom socket
I got paid $50 by Chevy to test drive a car at a dealer
dense shard
fathom socket
You know what I picked?
dense shard
Camaro?
fathom socket
Better than that
dense shard
They let you test drive a corvette?
dense shard
cool
dense shard
I should see which dealers have money offers now.
fathom socket
I wanna drive a Raptor
The fact that they were able to squeeze the power of the Ford GT out of a 3.5l V6 is astounding
dense shard
Nothing too crazy. I think Jaguar did it in the late 80s.
Ford doing it reliably tho. That's the cool stuff.
Won the LeMans?
I still want a Ford GT.
It's not as fast as a Euro flagship, not particularly cheap... but
It's what my inner 12 year old desires.
Looks cool af. Literally a race car for the road. Get rekt Mercedes.
night current
Hatchback corolla is beautiful. My parents were going to get one but wanted something a bit cheaper, so now they are looking at Honda Fits... Although they still don't look bad by any means, and has a form of vtec, my inner Toyota fanboy is cringing.
night current
Yeah, pretty neat
Tbh I'm not sure what to think of the 2021 model... 2019 I feel has that more aggressive look. But the new one looks so modern and sleek.
civic spoke
Can be had as a hybrid.
night current
Ooooh, now that's interesting
civic spoke
stoic ledge
Previous one could be had as a hybrid too
Atleast in Europe and Japan you could
(previous/current/...)
Ah apparently not the 3rd gen (2015-now), that was a hybrid for Japan only
2nd gen (2007-2014) could be had as a Hybrid (2011-2014) in Europe
civic spoke
Heh. You know that a car manufacturer is all about the weight when they have power-to-weight as one of their main specifications.
tired jasper
unreal terrace
unreal terrace
A E R O tho
fair bronze
@astral sorrel You might want to clean up after yourself
It's not even car related lol
jagged coyote
yeah and it's self promotion
account is new too, i'd say it's a bot
tbf he posted it in every channel it looks like
should we ping the mods?
astral sorrel
hey, i am sorry for that
it was just my small brother
i am cleaning my my msgs
@jagged coyote @fair bronze
fair bronze
Sure
jagged coyote
@turbid vault this guy @astral sorrel had spam all over the server for a video he made (self promotion)
wow
stoic ledge
He's gone
unreal terrace
Can you RMA tyres? 🤣 My 6 month old Michelin X ice North has lost all studs on one front tyre...
civic spoke
You probably can.
unreal terrace
ocean shoal
Jebus how the hell did that oil get there
jagged coyote
my guess: drove behind a semi/car that had a leaky turbo
unreal terrace
It's a diesel and the fuel fired parking heater exhausts Infront of the front wheel on that side X)
jagged coyote
oh so it's humidity and diesel grime
dense shard
Speaking of the new Fit from earlier... Chances are Honda might not bring it to the US.
Good chance they'll EOL production in Mexico and either increase HR-V production or start building a new crossover in Mexico. They have EOL'd production in Mexico and increased production of the HR-V... meaning the USDM Fit might be going away sooner than later.
But it is adorable.... the new one that is.
stoic ledge
Is the US getting the Honda-e?
dense shard
Looking doubtful tbh.
The Honda-e is a pure city car. Americans need the ability to drive intercontinental distances on a whim... regardless of the fact they never do.
Honestly I think the Japanese are gonna skip the EV train for now, and just focus on transitioning. So hybrids > plug-in hybrids > range extended EVs > BEVs/FCEVs.
I sincerely hope Honda won't kill the Fit in the US. It needs a car that actually competes in the bottom end of the market. I can't see the spending fetish continuing much longer, and I imagine the US market might shift towards cheaper cars again soon.
Also bigger news. Nissan Frontier in the US is finally getting a new engine... and next year a new platform.
stoic ledge
Mini is bringing the EV, Honda-e is kinda the same, so that's why I thought so xD
Mazda a.k.a Japanse is building an EV tho xD (MX-30)
Yeah I did hear about the new Frontier engine
Car is only 15 years old
dense shard
I'm excited for the Mazda.
indigo coral
Too short of range imo, isn't it gonna only have like 140 miles?
That's unusably small
indigo coral
oh it's like the i3?
civic girder
yes
and the Volt
EV, but the rotary charges the battery when you run out
and rotary > all
It can be 500cc and still be as effective as the motors in the Volt and i3
and 500cc rotary will have crazy fuel to electricity value
indigo coral
still the EV part ought to have hella more range than 140 miles
civic girder
battery capacity is less important in hybrids like that
even less important in plug-in hybrids
Like, the Pacifica Hybrid and Outback Hybrid only go like 30 miles on a charge lmfao
140 miles is as good as some pure EVs
plus you get range extension from the rotary
so it's actually pretty sicc
The BMW i3 can't even go 140 on a charge
140 is 30 miles more than the i3, lmfao
and 114 miles is on the larger battery i3, the smol battery i3 is another 30 miles less range
And the Volt? lmfao
not even worth comparing
Volt does have 420 miles of range with the gas engine extension tho, on top of the 53 miles of EV range
the i3 motor only adds 70 miles of range, so at best you can get 180 miles
dense shard
To be honest. 140 is workable for most daily use applications.
civic girder
without a rotary extender, the MX-30 is already a superior option in terms of pure EV capabilities
dense shard
Just plug it in every night.
I would prefer a longer range, but a range extender engine is totally fine imo.
civic girder
and with a rotary extender (or really any extender), I would think the MX-30 could easily match the Volt's total range
rotaries can spin fast very well, and are efficient at sustained speeds. So a low displacement, steady rpm rotary would be able to generate good power for a good amount of time when provided with a decent amount of fuel
dense shard
packaging would be less of a pain in the ass.
civic girder
the smaller, lighter rotary would also yield an efficiency improvement over the Volt's solution
and could feature a fuel tank that is between the i3 and volt in capacity
i3 has a 2.5 gallon tank, Volt has 12 gallon tank
a 6 gallon tank would be a solid option
If the MX-30 ships with a rotary, I'll buy one. Even if I have nowhere to plug it in at night. Fuck it, rotary is life
and small rotary are more reliable, btw
dense shard
The range extender is supposedly an optional feature.
dense shard
Hopefully it'll ship with CCS.
civic girder
ccs?
dense shard
The fairly now universal plug.
Japan still has a hardon for Chademo.
Basically charging standards.
civic girder
ah
civic girder
No rotary = lame event
250mph? big fancy awd german boat?
pffffft
smol cheapo jdm girl with that classic brap and some good ole fashioned blue smoke
fr real tho, that's pretty sweet that you got to sit in and start it
dense shard
lol
devout ibex
fathom socket
The Toyota AE86 is now Available in Forza Horizon 4
dense shard
It wasn't from the get go?
fathom socket
No
Toyota didnt wnat to Have their Cars represented in Racing Games because of Image or something
dusty warren
imagine creating a classic jdm icon then in 20 years not want to be associated with racing games
dense shard
The feature has been paid for.
indigo coral
Exactly!
It's tied to the car, not the owner.
If it was advertised as being tied to the owners account, following them to a new car, that would be appropriate imo. However, it was marketed and applied as an option to the CAR, thus any used owners should be able to have it, not have to pay Tesla higher than market price to regain access.
dense shard
There's nothing Tesla from charging a subscription later
indigo coral
I know
I said if it was a subscription or if the purchase of autopilot was a licence on your account or something
but it's noit.
its bought as an option to the car.
dense shard
"you paid for this, but we've updated so many times it's actually a new feature now"
indigo coral
They pulled this shit with Ludicrous upgrades and whatnot too.
dense shard
Naturally this is okay because it's Tesla. /S
indigo coral
It's ridiculous.
People paid 20k for a performance upgrade, and as soon as Tesla found out the car changed owners, they stripped that feature completely.
dense shard
Auto DLC
indigo coral
It's fucking highway robbery.
Honestly, I'd love to see @eager kite defend them on this.
dense shard
Buy Tesla's season pass to unlock many new features like one touch windows, central locking, and a parking brake. 
indigo coral
our Explorer doesn't have one touch windows for the back seats
which is kind of crazy for a newer car
my RX even has rear auto windows
eager kite
just fake news
eager kite
Tesla stripped the features when they sold it to dealer
indigo coral
Seems like it's a Japanese thing to do rear auto windows
which I have no problem with
eager kite
dealer then sold it to customer saying that it had all the features to extort more money from them
indigo coral
They shouldn't be stripping features htough
eager kite
dealer knew it was stripped of features
indigo coral
The feature was paid for, in full.
eager kite
not by the dealer no
dense shard
Features are part of the car.
eager kite
no
indigo coral
Yes, they are.
dense shard
Lol okay
indigo coral
The previous owner bought it as an option
eager kite
dealer bought a used car
indigo coral
that would be like Ford coming to my house and jacking the upgraded rims on the explorer
because we bought it used
dense shard
The Apple Theory on automotive applications becomes reality
eager kite
yes, original owner bought the car, returned it to tesla within a week, tesla resold it to a dealership for a lower price without FSD, dealer then sold it to customer saying it had FSD
indigo coral
or Lexus deciding that I don't deserve cruise control and taking it away
But they still paid for FSD
That should 100% stay w/ the car
eager kite
the dealer didn't pay for FSD
indigo coral
That is completely irrelevant
eager kite
Tesla sold the car to them at the lower price
indigo coral
They should never be decontenting cars
eager kite
they aren't
indigo coral
They are though
eager kite
If Tesla did what you are asking, they would just have charged the dealer more money for the car upfront
indigo coral
Should have done that, because at this point they're trying to get money for it twice
eager kite
instead, they sold it to the dealer without it for a lower price
thus the next person to buy it wouldn't NEED to pay extra for it in the case they didn't want FSD
they could pay for FSD at that time if they wanted it
the controversy came from the dealer claiming that it had FSD when they knew it didn't
dense shard
Don't remove features that come with the car.
eager kite
it didn't
indigo coral
They did
eager kite
FSD doesn't come with the car
dense shard
Factory option second hand standard
indigo coral
It came with the car when it was initially purchased
indigo coral
Not irrelevant
dense shard
Very relevant
eager kite
it doesn't come standard with the car
indigo coral
Irrelevant
dense shard
So Tesla doesn't come with self driving... Weak
eager kite
"Don't remove features that come with the car."
FSD doesn't come with the car
indigo coral
Literally, its exactly the same as Ford coming and taking back the rims we didn't pay them for
dense shard
Nissan has autopilot stock
indigo coral
but we paid the 2nd owner (in this case dealer)
dense shard
Laaaaame
eager kite
AP comes stock with teslas...
dense shard
Chad Propilot 2.0
dense shard
ChadPilot 2.0
eager kite
gotta deflect to diff convo now cause got btfo'd on first one lmao
indigo coral
eg: eye tracking, attention tracking like Merecdes have, etc
dense shard
Doesn't matter Falcon
indigo coral
That autopilot buddy thing was absolutely hilarious
dense shard
Tesla will remove it for the second owner anyway
dense shard
ABS is now an add on
dense shard
lol
dense shard
You need to rebuy your Model S when you buy a Model S second hand
indigo coral
Tesla = EA
eager kite
honestly don't see what problem you guys have with this
dense shard
Galaxy brain
eager kite
literally helps people afford the car
indigo coral
Uh. The owner got scammed out of 8k worth of autopilot LMAO
dense shard
We're not drinking kool-aid
eager kite
THE DEALER SCAMMED THEM 8K NOT TESLA @indigo coral
indigo coral
the car is ridiculously overpriced in the first place
dense shard
True
eager kite
if you'e upset about them getting scammed 8k go complain about the dealer
dense shard
8k plus per new owner
indigo coral
@dense shard have you seen how dumb the cupholders are in the Model S / X
indigo coral
didn't even have it for the first couple years, and now they're in the most dumb spot
indigo coral
can't hardly reach them while you're driving
eager kite
keep spreading fake news
dense shard
Ahhh
indigo coral
have you ever SAT in a Model S?
the cupholder is utterly stupidly placed
because it was an oversight by inexperienced designers
indigo coral
100k luxury sedan not even having cupholders for the first year 
indigo coral
My car only has 4 unfortunately
dense shard
No cupholders, and no one wants to hold the driver's drink.
indigo coral
2 good ones and two mediocre ones
dense shard
I have 8
indigo coral
I'm annoyed that the fold-down armrest in the back doesn't have cupholders
like why not lol
normal temple
My car didn't come with cupholders stock
dense shard
And when I sell my car to you, I promise Toyota won't take any away.
indigo coral
two of mine are in a fold up little thing in the center console between armrests, and the other two are in one of the drawers
top drawer
the drawers are hilarious might i add
(quite useful too)
the RX has quite a bit of interior space
dense shard
Brb
eager kite
Imagine conflating software options that severely increase the purchase price of a car that can be added at any time through an app with physical hardware that can't be added at any time through an app and would need physical labor to modify
Like honestly, your guy's position just seems to be anti-Tesla. Like what Tesla did in this scenario was pro-consumer. They lowered the price of the car so more people could afford to buy it, and wouldn't be forced to buy FSD if they didn't want it.
indigo coral
anti-tesla
eager kite
And if they did want it, they could whip out their phone and within minutes have ordered it, and within a very short period of time their car would have it
indigo coral
if the company wasn't wildly abusive and anticonsumer I'd totally buy one
eager kite
this literally was a pro-consumer move
indigo coral
No it wasn't lol.
indigo coral
your post is utterly incorrect
eager kite
It's allowing people to buy the car without needing to pay for FSD
indigo coral
removing features and not disclosing it is not pro-consumer, regardless of the effect it has on the price
eager kite
Dude
indigo coral
Typically the cost of options depreciates WITH the car
eager kite
where are you reading this fake news
indigo coral
so you buy it two years later, it's not fair to charge 8k for it like you did when it was new
eager kite
they told the dealer that it didn't have FSD
the dealer knew this
that's why the dealer only showed the customer the original purchase agreement between the original owner and Tesla
and didn't show the customer THEIR purchase agreement with Tesla
The dealer mislead the customer into paying 8K more for the car, not Tesla
indigo coral
From a Tesla biased publication
eager kite
Literally pro consumer, but because it's Tesla you gotta find something wrong with it
Literally to the point where you guys are saying, "all software options should stay with the car", which means the sale price for the car needs to be higher, meaning any buyer then needs to buy the car with all software options instead of being able to buy the car without the software options for less $$$
You want Tesla to make the consumer have less choices and pay more $, and then you complain about it being anti-consumer
eager kite
lmao, gets called out on hypocritical stance, instead of owning up to it and admitting fault just entirely ignores it and tries to shift topic again...
indigo coral
how is that shifting topic
eager kite
thanks for silently admitting to holding a hypocritical view falcon
It's technically moving the goalpost, in that he's moving the issue from the previous topic to a new one
eager kite
I'm the only one here not holding self-contradictory views lol
dense shard
...
eager kite
highly doubt I'm the deluded one here
dense shard
Give it up Falcon
eager kite
yes please, give up and stop spreading FUD
indigo coral
👍
eager kite
circle jerk time
dense shard
Calm down Arial
indigo coral
I'm currently looking at how much having a celltower on our property will pay, just a minute
indigo coral
We've got a fair bit of land
dense shard
Might be getting a roof rack today.
Eerrr this week*
Add some more style to my car.
indigo coral
Nice
dense shard
And hopefully a bike rack soon.
stoic ledge
I'm the only one here not holding self-contradictory views
Oof nice one, it's always good to start the day with a laugh... Haven't laughed this hard for quite some time 😂
@indigo coral
Seems like it's a Japanese thing to do rear auto windows
It's more of a Europe thing, many Japanese cars only had one touch for only the driver until recently, while nearly every European car had it even before 2000 🙃
drifting mantle
Got a 98 Accord, has auto for driver window, but only for down
drifting mantle
IDK x'D
stoic ledge
I also can't see why it's considered as a luxury feature by car brands
drifting mantle
Also I guess the previous owner was the only passenger, cause the driver window is slower than the passenger one.
stoic ledge
Just use the same switch 4 times and you're done
stoic ledge
I'd say it's even more expensive to use 2 different switches while designing the control panel xD
It's probably more expensive due to an extra relay I assume?
But yeah that can't cost a fortune, not on this scale
civic spoke
I'm happy that my E46 has power windows for all four windows. 
drifting mantle
I'd just be happy for the front windows to have auto
Don't really care for the rears.
stoic ledge
My rear windows don't open at all
But my front ones are auto
Even the Corsa C (2000-2006) had were auto, so were all 4 power windows on our 2001-2007 Peugeot 307. And those are just regular cars
But then if you look at a 2016 Camry, it's just the driver only xD
civic spoke
I'm pretty sure that having power windows on all four corners were an option on the E46. But that might have been just the pre-facelift ones. Not sure.
stoic ledge
Hmmm could be, idk... Weren't they placed around the shifter in an E46?
stoic ledge
Yes, around the shifter Any some have that rear window lock button, and some don't.... I assume the sedan and wagon have it, and the coupe didn't
civic spoke
That's probably the case.
stoic ledge
The neighbours across the street had an E46 Touring with manual rear windows
civic spoke
I can't wait until next winter. I'm totally going to give my car LSD.
civic spoke
Some E46's were really weirdly optioned out.
This guy went with the option for the CD player. But no power windows, cup holder or anything.
stoic ledge
I think the one across the street was the same, CD + climate control but no power windows (cup holder unsure)
I do see heated seats 👀
civic spoke
Here is one that only wanted the BMW badge.
318i, with what I assume was the tapedeck. No auto AC, no power windows, no nothing.
stoic ledge
Oof xD
civic spoke
Those AC controls just look off in the E46.
stoic ledge
Just found a 320i Executive, with full on leather, auto AC, CD, heated seats, auto lighting.... But no power windows xD
Only 18k km's on it
Also: no steeringwheel wheel controls 🤔
civic spoke
What even is an 320i Executive?
I know mine is called "320i Limo" sometimes. Which doesn't make sense to me.
stoic ledge
My brothers E91 is a High Executive, which is the highestest of trims xD
stoic ledge
Very plausible they were called different in other countries
drifting mantle
Get the vin, or use this site to get the vin if you remember your plate
US only btw (IDK where you're at)
stoic ledge
Although I know Germany used the same name
unreal terrace
Limo is saloon in German :p @civic spoke
unreal terrace
Or the short for it anyways
drifting mantle
Ahh oki
stoic ledge
I decoded my brothers E91 VIN once (original from Germany), no trim is specified, only packages and/or options
unreal terrace
BMWarchiv has a vin decoder, that'll tell you everything about the car as it was when it left the factory
Like paint, engine, equipment and so on
civic spoke
Lets find out.
unreal terrace
It's sketchy AF but it works
stoic ledge
Type Code US31
E Series E91 (MUE)
Series 3
Type TOUR
Model 318I UL (EUR)
Steering LL
Doors 5
Engine N43
Displacement 2.00
Power 105
Drive HECK
Transmission MECH
Colour ALPINWEISS 3 (300)
Upholstery LEDER DAKOTA/SCHWARZ (LCSW)
Prod Date 2010-03-10
Idk what decoder I used
(also shows every option, but since it's nearly fully optioned the list is too long to pasted here xD)
I know that my Corsa (Color Edition) is specified as "Special Edition" for Opel themselves, since it was a special trim for 🇳🇱 (and different from the German trim)
unreal terrace
HECK drive
civic spoke
Heh, same for mine.
My car is pretty much my ideal configuration for me.
Sport seats, CD player, AAC, power windows, fog ligts, etc.
unreal terrace
Individual tho 😏
civic spoke
Huh.
stoic ledge
2 AT
civic spoke
Along with the, uhh. X1/2 or something?
stoic ledge
Yes, same platform
civic spoke
Some of the X-cars are FWD based.
civic spoke
I'm shocked.
Well not that shocked.
stoic ledge
Hi shocked, I'm MK
runs
civic spoke
From what I can manage. My car is more or less a top spec E46 320i without leather seats, sports package suspension and wheels.
Hell. Whoever ordered my car when it was new even got the phone option.
But no leather seats? I like this guy.
civic spoke
That they are.
civic spoke
👌
fair bronze
Definitely
stoic ledge
My brother is getting his E91 satnav updated next week... €150 😂
And it has been updated before at least once
So BMW making big money on satnav updates xD
civic spoke
The E91 satnav is terrible. Not worth €150 today.
stoic ledge
He says he uses it more than his phone satnav
He does have an LCI + Navi Professional (the bigger one)
He also wanted them to change the tailgate gas struts (€50 each, + €50 installation), but I prevented that xD Managed to order the original gasstruts for €28 for the pair on Amazon, and installation is ez pz (just clips on). Easy €100+ saved
civic spoke
I really need to figure out if I have the AUX option that I can add to my car.
And see if I can make it do bluetooth.
stoic ledge
Should be feasible
civic spoke
This is what the rear looks like on mine.
I think?
At least if I go by the radio code card-thing that I have for it.
Basically the same serial as that one.
stoic ledge
Not sure how BMW Radios work, but iirc you could have got them with a CD-changer? Usually that connection can be converted to Aux
civic spoke
I can probably hook up AUX to one of the ports on the lower right in that picture.
Looks like I can get something simple as this.
That hooks up to the back, and then you give it some power.
stoic ledge
Yeah probably
I know that's the same system for when I want to add Bluetooth to my car, remove the AUX connextor, plug in the Bluetooth one and give it some power
civic spoke
Hmm. It's probably around 6,000 kr to get a motorcycle license. As a minimum. So $600.
unreal terrace
Don't forget like 25.000:- in insurance per year 
civic spoke
Probably not for me. Since I'm in my 30's.
And I'm not looking for a super high end bike to use.
unreal terrace
True
civic spoke
I'll just aim for something like 650~900cc. Since I'll mainly just use it for commuting.
unreal terrace
4k/year for a 2017 glider 650cc
Couldn't get one for a GS1200 cuz their website went down X)
stoic ledge
But 404 SEK != €40, but rather €35
So €420
Ah no, it's 38€
My bad
€460 😮
Still not that expensive 😛
civic spoke
Affordable, ish.
Probably a tad cheaper if you use group insurance together with car, etc.
stoic ledge
That could very well be the case, yes
dense shard
Nifty stuff
stoic ledge
fair bronze
unreal terrace
wet pine
eager kite
night current
That's lame... What was it about?
stoic ledge
Of apparently it's because a certain disease is in it's title
Model 3 + current news diseases + Shanghai = delayed production
night current
Lol, LTT bot is lame, it cannot handle the truth
stoic ledge
Yeah did not expect that xD
jagged coyote
night current
Lol
I'm gonna do a test
Wow
That's actually lame
What if I talk about the beer?
jagged coyote
in a cars channel 
night current
Listen, drinking and driving is a terrible thing, but it can connect the two. lol
I love corona beers and cars
Okay so that works, I'm done testing now... lol
jagged coyote
oh and now it's still there...
night current
Who knows these days
stoic ledge
Best beers are from Belgium
fathom socket
https://youtu.be/5l9IOUl6Awo I want to touch it
flint sable
Just got to start a senna a few hours ago, wow
ocean shoal
dense shard
I think society has vastly over rated Honda's early 2000s paint work.
Sweet bikes tho.
ocean shoal
honda?
oh my roommate’s accord in the back lol
they had a lot of clear coat problems in those years
dense shard
yeah, I'm feeling blessed my Accord still had clearcoat when I sold it.
dense shard
Your Mazda looks far better than a lot of early 2000s Hondas on the road today.
civic girder
🤔
dense shard
https://cdn.carcomplaints.com/complaints/images/c591ab95-dacc-11e8-9736-5dd308af5497r.jpg This is in a 10 year old car.
I've seen bare metal in a few cases... which was weird.
indigo coral
You know you're in the rich district when you have the oldest car in the parking lot by a 5yr margin
eager kite
indigo coral
Source for the 600$ cost of Xbox please
dense shard
Could be worse, Falcon.
Imagine HR accusing you of fraud cause you still drive your old 2002 Toyota Camry.
my mistake... it's a 2005 Camry.
Apparently keeping an older car is tantamount to financial immaturity and potential for crime.
indigo coral
Wow wtf
An exec at my uncle's work was dismissed because he brought his Ferrari to work one day
And "that's not the image our company would like to project"
Btw the CEO drives a Maserati
So he's suing iirc
indigo coral
@dense shard that's super fucked up btw, is there more info about that?
That's something that concerns me, driving a ratty old car is going to put me at a disadvantage going to job interviews and stuff
dense shard
They won't look at your car. Just keep it clear, waxed, and cleaned.
HR has no right to diss yo whip unless it's a literal safety hazard.
No one has been able to confirm the reality of this email, but it's slightly worrying tbh that a company can judge you on your credit score.
I personally think that unless you are an accountant or tax lawyer... credit score shouldn't be a factor.
I saw the Tesla story blowing up on your website and a few others as well. We are the dealership (United Traders) that sold the Tesla to Alec B_____.
I bought that vehicle personally, and used the full self drive on it multiple times. It was working fine. One day, a random message popped up saying your autopilot has been upgraded after a software update. Then it disappeared. I figured it was a glitch. I already had an agreement with Alec to purchase the vehicle.
He did come and test drive it a few days later, and we both agreed it was a technical difficulty or bug that would be fixed by next software update. Since then Tesla has been of no assistance to him, and I have been doing my best to get him some help in this case.
I sell dozens of Teslas a year, and sold my father in law a Model X P90D with ludicrous speed package. 60 days after the purchase of the car, Tesla removed his ludicrous speed package. Upon complaints to them they said he never paid for it. We have video evidence and multiple pictures of the vehicle with it. They even removed the line under the P90D. I am still shocked at these acts.
Update on the Tesla option removal story.
jagged wagon
Man, I wish a potential employer were to send an email like that to me - it'd go straight to the labor board and instantly win for discrimination, cause that shit don't fly where I live.
dense shard
The last paragraph is particularly interesting.
It don't fly anywhere in the US tbh, Kirashi.
And frankly... unless HR is willing to buy him a new car... they can take their concerns, and shove em.
The car is neither a safety nor a health hazard.
And a 2005 Toyota Camry still has at least 15 years of life left in it.
eager kite
dense shard
uhuh, and pigs fly
sold my father in law a Model X P90D with ludicrous speed package. 60 days after the purchase of the car, Tesla removed his ludicrous speed package. Upon complaints to them they said he never paid for it. We have video evidence and multiple pictures of the vehicle with it. They even removed the line under the P90D. I am still shocked at these acts.
This isn't a one off occurance.
Tesla has gone full shady used car dealership. All Elon lacks to finish the image is slick his hair back with cosmoline.
eager kite
ah yes, because work order logs are less trustworthy than a dealer's word...
dense shard
What do work order logs have to do with anything?