I'm just saying it's perfectly reasonable to have a fuel efficient full sized truck
#cars
carmine summit
dense shard
An engine swap is not considered reasonable by most.
carmine summit
I haven't done the math but I'm 99% sure it would be cheaper including the hours to do that than buy a new truck
I plan on doing it sometime so I'll calculate it
dense shard
And yet most people would buy a new truck, or just live with the less than stellar mileage.
Because dropping x amount of dollars is usually a poor value proposition when it comes to boosting fuel economy.
You'll spend 5 grand on an engine to spend the next ten years waiting for the savings to pay for the engine.
carmine summit
nah you can get them fully rebuilt for $2500
dense shard
Spend 2500 dollars and wait x time for it to pay for itself.
Or just roll on with what you have.
Most people will save now.
If people wanted fuel efficiency, they'd have not gotten a truck to begin with.
carmine summit
actually you might be surprised
dense shard
I doubt it.
carmine summit
I know a lot of people who would rather put $10k into a 40 year old truck than buy a new one
dense shard
And I see a lot of people rolling around in brand new trucks implying they weren't willing to put money into an older truck.
carmine summit
and the bank probably owns those trucks, which is something a lot of people don't want
dense shard
I don't think a lot of people are aware of what they want... besides a new shiny toy.
There's a reason 10 year loans are becoming a thing.
It's a low hanging fruit for idiots.
It's almost as if everyone has forgotten what mistakes were made... wow only a decade ago.
And with loan delinquency up, we're about to hit a new recession. Thanks to people who can't resist a new car after a year of financing a new one.
carmine summit
yeah, the dirty 30s are gonna happen again
dense shard
Mind you I speak from the American perspective, but people buy instead of repairing.
carmine summit
I'm Canadian so it's the same here
indigo coral
My next car will prob be financed but I plan to put at least half down
carmine summit
my next car will be old
indigo coral
My heart is set on a Genesis G70 / Stinger GT2 / Model 3 (if I could find a really snazzy deal)
night current
Stinger and Model 3 
night current
I meant or. Lol
indigo coral
I'd get a Lexus GS F but theyre bloody expensive
night current
Imagine getting both 
indigo coral
Thats why I don't like the Volvo XC40
anymore
because its too damn expensive
an optioned XC40 is ~62k, or I could get a Model 3 + used Stinger
carmine summit
I kind of want a truck
indigo coral
big sedans ftw
carmine summit
I found a 1980 Chevy C30 that's been sitting in the woods for about 5 years, would be perfect for what I want
stoic ledge
Arial hasn't pasted this video yet? How? How!
https://youtu.be/Q-0DdRHA-ZQ
indigo coral
I watched it lol
stoic ledge
Same
fair bronze
I'm already tired of that thing
stoic ledge
Same
carmine summit
It has to be a marketing gimmick
fair bronze
It should've been called the Hypebeast
carmine summit
it has no mirrors
stoic ledge
"This was Tesla's first big miss" ~Doug DeMuro
Ah, that's why Arial didn't share it
fair bronze
lmao
stoic ledge
Negative opinions on a Tesla: #fakenews
carmine summit
it has no mirrors because you never tow with it
fair bronze
It has no wipers because you don't need to see out of it
Just drive through everything, no problem
carmine summit
you can't see out anyways
stoic ledge
You just that a hammer to it
carmine summit
the glare on the windshield would be awful, look how shallow it is
stoic ledge
True
fair bronze
It's definitely a concept car
Even though the real thing might look very similar when that gets revealed
indigo coral
unfortunately
fair bronze
I do like that they're trying something unconventional but this can never be how it will appear on sale
It has to comply with many safety standards which the current car doesn't
Enough about that thing, it's giving me a headache
stoic ledge
https://rumors.it/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/mxcp_1565420900144_4-1000x600.jpg
Everybody knows these are the best pick-ups
indigo coral
stoic ledge
Nah that's no Dacia
fair bronze
Not square enough
stoic ledge
https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/AYxlL/s1/romturingia-dacia-duster-pick-up-prototipi.jpg
Duster pick-up
fair bronze
Honestly though, I love the first Golf/Caddy
carmine summit
same
fair bronze
Yes
carmine summit
what if Tesla took a normal truck design and built a Tesla truck
it would be good
fair bronze
This is cool too https://youtu.be/vmpCWEAapQY
carmine summit
the Falcon ute is better because Barra
indigo coral
dude my dad would go insane if he he had to road trip in a Tesla lmao
fair bronze
Not as useful as an actual truck but cool
indigo coral
he'd hate it
fair bronze
Until the battery runs flat
fair bronze
It already drives me insane thinking about it
indigo coral
I'd be fine with it
Stopping for a half hour ain't bad
Take a piss, have a snack etc
carmine summit
lunch
fair bronze
If you don't have to wait for the previous person who is still charging
indigo coral
unless you live in Cali thats not a problem
fair bronze
Highly depends on where you live
indigo coral
all the SC stations I've been to / driven past have been empty
or nearly so
yeah like i said
carmine summit
I like old clattery diesels though so a Tesla would get old pretty quickly
fair bronze
To me it wouldn't be fun to drive
carmine summit
it would be fun for a while, but at the end of the day it's just another car
fair bronze
Yes it works, I could drive it to work every day but I wouldn't really enjoy it
indigo coral
decent cornering and stuff, but does feel a bit sterile
fair bronze
I get why some people like it though
carmine summit
my car is slow and not comfortable but I have fun daily driving it
indigo coral
I think I'd enjoy it, but I've been driving a Lexus RX (slow and comfortable) so I'm used to not super engaging cars
xD
fair bronze
I get that lol
indigo coral
I believe the one I drove was a LR RWD, which was actually impressively stable for a RWD car
fair bronze
They have good handling
indigo coral
imo, it was very good
carmine summit
modern cars are amazing in terms of handling
carmine summit
coming from a 1997 Golf new pickups feel like they handle well
fair bronze
Personally I just really miss the engine noise
boreal badger
I have a golf!
indigo coral
The biggest thing I missed was revving up and shifting tbh. It was nice to have the smooth power delivery and going up hills was easy, but it was sterile
fair bronze
Almost everyone in Europe owns a Golf
boreal badger
I am in Europe.
indigo coral
handling and autopilot was very good
fair bronze
Yes
boreal badger
Apparently I am reinforcing the stereotype.
fair bronze
Yep
indigo coral
tho I think I'd need to rent one from Turo or something for a longer test drive before I'd actually buy one
They're not crazy expensive to rent here since there's so damn many of them
you know what'd be funny? a program/app/option on the Tesla to simulate a transmission
that would be kind of cool tbh, if you could make it feel moderately authentic
carmine summit
Speaking of electric cars, the Mustang Lithium is sweet
fair bronze
That would kinda defeat its purpose though, I wonder if they would be able to simulate that in a realistic way
indigo coral
It'd be an option or app or whatever, not a blanket feature thats auto-enabled
they have creep and stuff already
fair bronze
No no, I get that
indigo coral
I think, if it could be done in a fairly authentic manner, it would be pretty damn cool
I wonder if i should tweet it at Elon? 🤔
fair bronze
Don't know if he would be into that
indigo coral
idk, he's unpredictable
fair bronze
You can say that lol
indigo coral
and drives an Audi Q7 or something
fair bronze
Maybe he used to
Don't think he would drive that now unless he wants to get ideas from the competition
Audi makes nice interiors
indigo coral
ok so rn hes borrowing a Raven Model S with FSD dev edition
he totalled his McLaren F1
a few years ago
fair bronze
Did he?
indigo coral
ye
fair bronze
I know Rowan Atkinson did
indigo coral
he wrecked it, uninsured
fair bronze
big oof
stoic ledge
indigo coral
I personally think the Model 3 looks really nice, @stoic ledge thinks its ugly
fair bronze
The proportions are a little weird tbh
And I don't like that they made the front smooth
Before the facelift the S had a "grille" that looked nicer imho
indigo coral
the nose cone?
fair bronze
Who calls it that?
fair bronze
First time I've heard that
indigo coral
idk which i like better, the refresh looks more modern
the gen2 headlights are amazing hto
on the Model S
indigo coral
the back end of the Model S is really nice looking
fair bronze
It always reminded me of a Jaguar
fair bronze
Or XF
indigo coral
am i the only one that finds the XJ to be hideous?
the back end on the XJ is dreadful
fair bronze
Well it's getting old now
indigo coral
its kind of impressive though, that Tesla hasn't really been overtaken yet in the sedan front
considering the Model S is based out of 2012
same platform since then
fair bronze
Well it's a hatchback
dense shard
Well the sedan market isn't exactly growing right now.
fair bronze
Oh in that way
indigo coral
but nobody has competitive sedans besides Porsche
dense shard
The tech has caught up.
indigo coral
and that's a different league
imo at least
well the Taycan 4S is close to a Model S Performance L+
Model 3 side reflectors look like a smaller and modernized version of those on the E60 5er
dense shard
I've kind of gotten over Tesla's styling.
Model S remains my favorite of the products released so far.
Long, wide, nice.
Model X is just dorky, and the Model 3 is oddly proportioned imo.
Model Y renders are oddly proportioned dorky.
fair bronze
Same, even though the S is getting old it still looks good
jagged coyote
well the X is the model 2
technicaly s is 2, x is 3 and 3 is 4 since their was the roadster
fair bronze
@carmine summit maaad
indigo coral
yeah we tlked about that earlier
indigo coral
Scotty Kilmer is a crackpot mechanic
I've got him blocked from my youtube
total idiot
indigo coral
I refuse to waste my time giving him views
Also his voice makes me want to gouge my ears out
dense shard
I've seen 3 of his videos.
2 of those were to give him two chances.
Not a fan of his.
I'm not a fan of doug...
But he brings up points.
fair bronze
Scotty Kilmer still lives in the 70s and 80s
I got him blocked from my YouTube as well
dense shard
I don't have him blocked, but I don't watch his videos. I tried to find out why I shouldn't buy a Corolla, but I didn't have the patience to sit through 30 minutes of rants.
short slate
https://youtu.be/1xNb2n9igiA
Companies that put the water pump in the engine w/ the timing chain/belt need to get 
dense shard
gets bad news about his ford
Sir I'm sorry to say that you own a ford
"oh no, how could have happened"
indigo coral
oh boy that's the Ecoboost isn't it
dense shard
Standard Duratec35
dense shard
oh the ecoboost shares the pump I imagine.
dense shard
Depends on the Ford.
indigo coral
taurus & explorer
dense shard
The old ones?
indigo coral
both 3.5 Ecoboost
dense shard
oh no clue
indigo coral
2013 taurus 2014 explorer
dense shard
I just know older Fords had shitty water pumps.
indigo coral
I mean my car is engine out for a ton of stuff even tho you don't actually have to for most things
Lexus just had lots of lifts to use or something, idfk
dense shard
If it runs on a timing chain.
It should either be designed to last the life of the timing belt/chain, or be a non-consumable.
And it sure as hell shouldn't cost 5000 dollars to replace.
carmine summit
yeah water pumps shouldn't fail easily
most VWs have the pump driven by the timing belt/chain and they always last longer than the timing belt change interval, always replace the pump with the belt though
indigo coral
don't audis have lots of water pump problems?
indigo coral
yeah, our explorer cost 10k at the dealer (luckily under warranty)
it stretched and f*cked a lot of stuff up before it threw a code or had any symptoms
eager kite
night current
LOL
bitter compass
tbh its an ugly one but 500 miles of range is.. just good 🤔
fathom socket
with solar panel on the back :3
I could watch tv in the truck by parking while it self charge from the sun
I heard you can get 50 miles back or less
night current
15-30 miles back
But that's essentially most people's daily commutes, so you're set.
fathom socket
sweet
sturdy rover
That is really sick
I would get that if I wasn't a poor college student
and plus my 2001 Camry I bought for $1k is doing just fine
dense shard
And likely will for the next 20 years.
sturdy rover
let's hope so
dense shard
I'm quite happy with my Corolla.
sturdy rover
it's already got 225k miles on it
dense shard
Still young.
sturdy rover
I guess
dense shard
You have at least 225k more to go before you can say it's getting there. lol
sturdy rover
the struts are pretty shot and and the transmission isn't in it's best condition
i'm being nice to it
I just replaced the timing belt so it should be good for a while
I also replaced the serpentine belt since it got worn out and began slipping
dense shard
Struts shouldn't be too bad a task.
sturdy rover
it made some god awful noises
dense shard
Transmission tho... rebuilt unit? At that point it honestly depends on how attached you are to the car.
sturdy rover
I don't think it's new or anything
I didn't hear anything about from the previous owner
it isn't the smoothest of shifters
there's also some weird extra rattling sound that increases with the engine revving
I was worried about it at first, but it's been a year now since I first started hearing it and nothing's happened yet so I'm just going to forget it
dense shard
Could just be a loose heat shield.
sturdy rover
plus i'm pretty broke right now (just paid for my spring semester classes)
dense shard
My old Accord would rattle a bit.
sturdy rover
don't know what that is
dense shard
So usually there's a metal sheet/plate that goes between your exhaust and the car body.
Protects the car body from heating up.
dense shard
There abouts.
sturdy rover
'cause that's where I'm hearing the sound
dense shard
hmmmmm
sturdy rover
I've been afraid it's something wrong with the engine
initially i thought it was the timing belt flapping
sturdy rover
that's why i got the timing belt replaced
dense shard
well... uhhhh lol
sturdy rover
it hasn't blown up yet while i'm doing 70 on the highway so i think i'll be fine
that's good to know
it's just very concerning sometimes
dense shard
Take my experiences with a grain of salt.
But sharp metallic noises are the bad ones.
knocking is bad
sturdy rover
understood
I wouldn't really describe it as metallic
i don't know about knocking
as far as the struts go, when i bought the car, my mechanic said that as long as it isn't a safety hazard i'm fine, which I have been
and their was an oil leak when I bought the car, but when I got the timing belt fixed a year later my mechanic also put on a new seal for the oil pump so leaking has stopped
eager kite
Damn Ford tryna back petal from their VP's challenge to Tesla
night current
Lol
I'd like to see the apples to apples comparison again.
But I still think Tesla would win.
indigo coral
I think one of my exhaust hangers is loose
night current
Oof
indigo coral
It rattles when I accelerate and am turning
(I think exhaust needs reconditioning in general, it makes noise when I gas it lol)
That noise
I suspect exhaust flex pipe
indigo coral
Oof
carmine summit
that's not cheaper than the mac skin but it's still hilarious
jagged coyote
the total for the mac pro is 11k
carmine summit
wait what
jagged coyote
3k for the truck
(during sales)
tbf the price for the mac pro is just for the memes
eager kite
I love this editor
I'm gonna try and make the shittiest combination of skins possible
jagged coyote
some guy on another server
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/378978725548523521/648882212623876108/Screenshot_20191126-191423.png
carmine summit
night current
Someone make a fully wood skin, lol
eager kite
indigo coral
arial has wood for the truck anyways
night current
Dude, I'd buy a cyber truck souly for this.
Dbrand my truck and make it Lego colored
I'd buy it for many other reasons, but this is 10/10
eager kite
I'm gonna try and come up with the shittiest combination of skins to put on so I can absolutely mind fuck everyone in my city seeing this thing driving around it
jagged coyote
@eager kite 
imagine with the robot skin that they made a few weeks ago, would've looked like the prototype wrap on cars
eager kite
carmine summit
you shouldn't get the screen protector on the windows
eager kite
probably wont
carmine summit
gotta have them shattered
night current
I'd take a Tesla over a Lamborghini any day.
0-60 acceleration is faster, and I think that acceleration is funner than taking turns fast.
Plus it's more practical. Lol
jagged coyote
unreal terrace
carmine summit
Ford challenged them to a tug of war with a 4x4 F150 because of this video
night current
Tesla would still win imo
carmine summit
not EE but that tug of war
Ford wouldn't challenge them if they would lose, they've probably analyzed the video and determined that they will win
night current
Ehhh maybe, but I think the Tesla's specs would have an advantage. I'm not really sure though. I'd love to see a rematch though.
Kind of stupid that they used a rwd truck.
Probably just borrowed some employees truck. Lol
indigo coral
Ford chickened out
carmine summit
I bet our truck would win a tug of war with the Cybertruck if the transmission wasn't shot
even though it's 2wd
carmine summit
it does indeed depend on weight
it probably weighs a bit, but it's aluminum isn't it?
indigo coral
yes, but it has prob a 200kwh battery
So easy 2500 pounds right there, if not more
Model S is aluminum too, and approaches 5000 pounds in p100d guise
carmine summit
I can't find the curb weight for our truck but it's gotta be over 6k lbs
plus whatever is in the box, plus the cap, plus the 2 spare tires
if the transmission wasn't screwed it would probably beat the dual motor Cybertruck
eager kite
Ford didn't challenge them
their VP challenged Tesla
and Elon agreed
and then corporate freaked and chickened out
The truck in the tug of war is the 50k dual motor version, so it probably has 125kwh or something like that
still pretty heavy
stoic ledge
Day 5: still talking about the Cybertruck
eager kite
but yea, the truck tug of war really is only affected by how much weight and power can be applied to the wheels, the truck with more weight going to drive wheels overall wins
stoic ledge
That's one nice looking car indeed :Pogey-1:
indigo coral
yes. Better than Model S
stoic ledge
Better than any current EV*
stoic ledge
Oof that one is not bad too
eager kite
I don't know what you guys are talking about, this is the pinnacle of beauty right here
indigo coral
It's cute but not that great looking
night current
sarcasm
stoic ledge
Still better than the Cybertruck
From this angle it's quite ok, just the rear looks odd (partly due to the extremely narrow tyres)
night current
Cyber truck is so much better than the i3 
stoic ledge
I disagree
stoic ledge
https://external-preview.redd.it/RiFsWgv5UaJqfqYiYbRAlXPTRTL6boRubZQu1v0UHL8.jpg?auto=webp&s=3dca4e13a92d2cedb6b1fd0d8cbc1827e6b8c0b5
I see where Tesla got their inspiration from
night current
Arial, if you ever get the cyber truck, please do that. Lol
night current
Hell yeah dude!
stoic ledge
🤢
eager kite
night current
LOL
eager kite
franz is a thicc boi
night current
He's stronk
indigo coral
Wait they killed the guy who designed it? Wtf?
stoic ledge
Did they also kill the designer then?
eager kite
nah he's still good
stoic ledge
Good, killing 5 year olds would be bad
eager kite
one of these is just so much cooler than the other
one is like the blackberry
and the other is like the iphone
stoic ledge
If you think so: go ahead
chrome grail
Cyber truck is a bad truck.
dense shard
Comparing a truck to an iphone isn't a great thing.
Imagine not being able to repair your truck yourself.
And when you do you have to take it to a genius dealership.
dense shard
To think that right to repair became an automotive issue.
stoic ledge
It's not that I repair cars myself, but I'd like to choose where to get it repaired
dense shard
oh, Nissan finally reveals a new Sentra.
Like Nissan's new product stack. Looks nice in a vapid generic kinda way.
stoic ledge
It doesn't look bad, the New Sentra
stoic ledge
It's basically the same design as on every Nissan nowadays
dense shard
Which is good.
Unified product styling helps recognition.
Though I wasn't expecting the sentra to look this much like a mini-fied Altima.
Also floating roof styling is questionable at best.
indigo coral
It looks generic as all hell
eager kite
Tesla will probably open up to 3rd party repair in the future
But right now there are very few people that could service them period
Like, I don't think Pedro the local mechanic knows how to replace the battery pack on a model 3
Or how to replace one of the driver boards in one of the motors
And anyway, most companies will void your warranty if you go to a 3rd party shop durring that time
indigo coral
they won't lol, Tesla is like apple
eager kite
No, like, most car companies do this
If you don't go to one of their certified shops, and they find out, goodby warranty
dense shard
They are legally not allowed to void your warranty if you do a 3rd party repair.
They would have to prove without a shadow of a doubt that your repair/mod caused the lapse in warranty.
As long as I keep the documentation, I can change the oil myself, and Toyota is legally required to uphold their warranty.
But I have 45k worth of free service, so I'll hold off for now.
eager kite
Tesla doesn't disable rebuilt cars either
Rich rebuilds daily drives his rebuilt model s
dense shard
indigo coral
only because Tesla hasn't found out yet.
dense shard
Rich's experiences are pretty varied.
dense shard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ376LuY2gs Ah, this explains his recent rant on artificial exhaust pops.
carmine summit
Why do the Tesla fanboys think they know about trucks? There is absolutely nothing about the Cybertruck that makes it more practical than a normal truck. It's not innovative, it's a brick. It's not "challenging truck design," it's ignoring the fact that gooseneck trailers exist.
eager kite
indigo coral
no one cares about his clickbait
carmine summit
so you're trying to tell me that people who want to buy a truck will spend $11k more for 230lbs of payload capacity
eager kite
If they can write off 35k on their taxes yea
carmine summit
that's not how it works
carmine summit
not really. Besides, once the eF150 enters production it will make the Cybertruck completely irrelevant
indigo coral
^^^^
eager kite
It literally is how it works, if you buy the truck as a work truck
indigo coral
fake truck vs an established truck manufacturer
eager kite
And you drive a certain percent of total miles for work
carmine summit
Yeah, my neighbours are farmers and whenever they buy new trucks they get to write some of it off
eager kite
Which it does if they get that much off in taxes
carmine summit
I'd bet $10k none of them will buy cybertrucks
eager kite
We'll see on that one
carmine summit
I know a ton of contractors too, none of them will buy cybertrucks
eager kite
But yea, the ef150 will be a joke when it comes out
carmine summit
the only people that will buy them are tesla fanboys who don't need a truck
eager kite
Just how the mach e is a joke in comparison to teslas
carmine summit
the eF150 will be a way better truck than the cybertruck
the F150 is already a better truck than the cybertruck
eager kite
Lol
carmine summit
there's a reason the F150 is the number one selling vehicle here
eager kite
The ef150 will cost more, be less efficient, have no self driving tech, have worse stats, and will have a much higher cost of ownership than the cybertruck
eager kite
Yes
indigo coral
its from a reliable brand, not a cobbled together car
carmine summit
you're making things up now
slim trout
eager kite
Irrelevant, the car is less efficient
carmine summit
how
indigo coral
LOL.
eager kite
It will use more energy to do the same work
indigo coral
makes a claim
refused, claims its irrelevant
eager kite
I'm going off the Mach E
carmine summit
what's your point
eager kite
It has horrible range and uses a thicc battery
That means the cost of using it will be higher
Due to more power used
carmine summit
and it's preproduction still
eager kite
For same outcome
indigo coral
somehow I think the Fords will not have the same problems as this 🤔
eager kite
It's not going to get 40% more efficient on release
eager kite
So cost of ownership will be higher
fossil imp
wtf
fossil imp
no 1 will use the cybertruck as a work truck ffs
eager kite
It's more expensive than the Y
fossil imp
its just a niche/toy
eager kite
Try thousands @indigo coral
carmine summit
exactly, not a truck
eager kite
Especially if you intend to travel anywhere
carmine summit
suck it up, Tesla isn't the best
eager kite
It certainly is better in price
indigo coral
1 blocked message
fossil imp
it doesnt matter arial, you're comparing it to an actual work truck, so all your points are irrelevant as no one who has any sense will use it for that
fossil imp
and wouldnt be seen dead in one, unless they are blind
eager kite
Yea, now try doing that dozens of times a year for 10 years and tell me it doesnt add up
indigo coral
Cybertruck is as irrelevant to the truck market as the Model Y is to the crossover market
carmine summit
dude what are you even trying to argue anymore, Tesla is cool and all but the Cybertruck will never be relevant
eager kite
I'm just saying in all aspects the ef150 will be shittier than the cybertruck
eager kite
So if you think it's not relevant, the ef150 will be nonexistent
fossil imp
ok lad
carmine summit
I expect I'll see eF150s all over right after release and for a long time after, I don't expect the cybertruck will have any sales in a 50 mile radius of me
indigo coral
I blocked him already xD
carmine summit
the eF150 is an actual truck, the cybertruck is an SUV
eager kite
That's fine for you to expect
carmine summit
give it up
eager kite
Some people expect a specific alien to visit them one day and save them...
carmine summit
I'm being realistic though
carmine summit
you've got your head way up in the clouds
carmine summit
nope, I like VW
eager kite
Eww
carmine summit
I just know the truck market
I know what people need in a truck
The cybertruck is an SUV for telsa fanboys
eager kite
I mean most people buying trucks don't use them for any practical purpose
They rarely tow, they rarely use the bed to haul stuff
Most people buy trucks bc it's what everyone does
carmine summit
and? they're still going to buy F150s over cybertrucks
carmine summit
Most will still buy traditional trucks. People who use it as a daily commuter will still mostly buy regular trucks and eF150s when they come out. People who use them as trucks will still buy regular trucks. It's this simple. Things are the way they are for a reason.
eager kite
3 years the blackberry died after the iPhone came out
carmine summit
And? that's phones, this is utility vehicles. Completely different market.
eager kite
Less than 3 years and the model 3 is one of the best selling sedans in the US
carmine summit
And yet trucks have stayed pretty much the same for over 100 years. I wonder why that is, don't you?
eager kite
There you go again, the pickup market is not a utility market
carmine summit
It is though.
eager kite
There are some pickups that are in that market
But most sales do not originate from that market
carmine summit
Buddy I live in the truck capital of the world, I know the market
eager kite
People buy trucks for the social aspect of owning a truck
They don't tow
They don't haul
They rarely go off roading
It's literally just a status thing
carmine summit
My uncle was an engineer at Ford for 30 years. His spouse was an engineer at Chevrolet and then Ford. I live in a rural area where at least 70% of the population has trucks.
I know why people buy trucks, and the Cybertruck doesn't appeal to those people
eager kite
Your anecdotes are great and all but statistics are better
carmine summit
So give me some
eager kite
I have been
carmine summit
No you haven't. You've been blindly arguing that the cybertruck is the vehicle of the gods and that everything else is garbage
eager kite
Most truck owners aren't doing any utility things with their trucks
carmine summit
show me numbers if you're obsessed with statistics
eager kite
They are status sybols
Linked in video I posted at the start of this
@carmine summit good strawman but I'm not arguing for that
carmine summit
I know how the cybertruck is claimed to perform
I'm talking marketing statistics
you keep saying that most people don't use trucks as trucks and I know that
that has nothing to do with the cybertruck
eager kite
The reason I bring that up is because people earlier were saying that it wouldn't sell because it can't tow as much as a 350 and stuff like that
My point is that most buyers don't care what the paper specs are, they care about the status sybol they are buying
eager kite
And I think the cybertruck feeds into that status symbol better than an f150 or ef150
I agree that right now that's probably the case
eager kite
But opinions change and as the cybertruck gets normalized they will buy it
200k+ people disagree with you
carmine summit
except that it won't get normalized
carmine summit
200k people around the world have bought them? cool. There are 1100 trucks sold each day in Canada
200k is nothing
carmine summit
a single year. There are 400k+ trucks sold in Canada alone each year, and they don't magically disappear after that year. There are tens millions of trucks on the road in Canada alone
carmine summit
Yeah, but 200k is nothing. You say that's normalized.
eager kite
No I'm saying that people are normalizing it
People who called it ugly when they first saw it are now ordering it
Others are refining to say it's not bad
That's in under a week
People are discussing and contemplating it and coming to terms with it
That's normalizing
night current
Why is everyone being so anal about the Cyber truck? Its ugly sure, but its innovative and provides amazing features and is overall a good value.
carmine summit
Obviously you're blinded by Tesla fanboying and can't understand the real world. Unless you can realise that Tesla isn't as great as you think it is, this conversation is over.
eager kite
Ah yes
paper bison
lmao that boomer linus knows what discord is
night current
Lol
paper bison
linus is big boomer
night current
People keep talking smack about the cyber truck, but it's literally not bad at all.
eager kite
They are afraid of it
night current
Probably.
night current
They are too stuck on the past.
paper bison
cyber truck is dope
night current
Ikr
I dont get why people hate Teslas... I understand they arent the best, and yes maybe customer support sucks ass. But they aren't the worst vehicles to ever exist.
They are all too nostalgic.
eager kite
Yea I want to be clear that I don't think Teslas are perfect
There are some downsides to EVs as with any other technology
But I think the overall package more than makes up for it
night current
^^^^ Well said.
stoic ledge
I don't think anybody here said they hate Tesla, I just feel like some people don't support all choices Tesla's made, but it feels like you can't say anything about it or you're a hater/basher/etc. You're "forced" by people on the internet to like it, otherwise you're stupid (that's basically the bottom line).
In my opinion, the Cybertruck is just ugly. It could very well be the most amazing car ever built, it's doesn't change the fact that, to me, it's ugly. Stop forcing other people to like it.
Also, and I think that counts for more people here, we're sick of constantly talking about Tesla, and if you talk about something else then Tesla it's inferior.
Besides that, there are personal opinions what I think are wrong with Tesla
- Chain of supply/right of repair (doesn't really need explanation)
- Quality control/reliability: yes they've improved, but it's still bad. Tesla can't seem to deliver a car to it's customer that's without flaws. Hell, even brand new Model 3's here failed inspection so they couldn't even get registered (!)
- I'm not the biggest fan of their design. Not only the Cybertruck, but also the Model 3 for example looks wrongly proportioned at the front (Model Y even worse)
- I don't like their "1 screen" interior, with no seperate speedometer and hard buttons for specific functions. I've driven a Model 3 multiple times, the missing speedometer is a huge miss for me
- Model 3 feels sterile to drive. Yes, it's fast, but it doesn't engage as much with you than for example the BMW 3er or Alfa Giulia. Maybe slower, but much more fun
That being sad, I do like what they have been doing and what their goal is, I do like the technology they put in a car, I do like their Autopilot system (wrongly mistaken for autonomous driving, but that's a different story), and I do think the value of the newer Tesla's are great
So yeah, that's about it. So people have different opinions: deal with it. Stop enforcing your opinions on others.
carmine summit
I just found a truck nearly identical to Old Smokey F1 for sale
stoic ledge
Oof it kinda does
carmine summit
other than the red it's basically the same truck
stoic ledge
I do prefer cars with a hood tho
wheat hatch
@stoic ledge Thank you for writing that my friend.
Had to be said sooner or later.
carmine summit
yeah what you said
I have nothing against tesla, the cybertruck just isn't what people are trying to make it look like
indigo coral
agreed
wheat hatch
In the end of the day, I doubt anyone here have anything against Tesla.
They make nice cars, and did push the industry in a direction of electrification.
But...
If the conversation only revolves around how great Tesla is, and literally nothing else, then it gets really really fcking boring.
Every conversation so far has only been about how good and great they are, and the mention of anything else (e.g. Taycan or any other car for that matter) instantly gets compared to how good the Tesla is compared the vehicle in question.
It's like going to a car meet and seeing a Taycan (just for easy comparison), walk up to the owner of the car, and say "Hey, why did you get this? Did you know the Tesla is X faster, does this and that better, etc. etc."
It doesn't make one look like a besserwisser, it makes one look like a cnt.
We all like cars here, in all shapes and forms.
But it gets tedious when it becomes a dck measuring contest of how good a Tesla is.
indigo coral
Oof
stoic ledge
@wheat hatch and I are on the same page
night current
No one here is forcing people to like Tesla, we're trying to have a conversation and everyone here is in disgust and just bashing it non stop. Sure, you may not like it, that's fine, it's your opinion, and explaining your reasoning is fine. But everyone in here acts like Tesla is the devil and think it's the worst thing to ever exist. When we try to say that Tesla is more than just a shitty customer/quality control etc. company, everyone is like, "no it's not". I can't recall anything that anyone (besides me and Arial) said about the Tesla that's positive. Even as a fan of Tesla vehicles, I can happily say that other cars that I don't like, have their benefits.
Then when we try to say, "It's not as bad as you think", everyone immediately starts calling us "tesla fanboys" even though we are just explaining the facts from the paper. Which is stupid, because we are simply trying to say that Tesla isn't the worst, and simply saying it can compete with other cars. Not that it's the best or that everyone should own one. Me, Arial, and a couple other people never even said, "You should own one" or "It's the best vehicle, you should get one".
It also doesn't help that as soon as someone says the word "Tesla", everyone immediately calls it shit. It's like you guys are trying to convince us that Tesla isn't good. It's almost like you guys could be called "gasoline fanboys". It's fine to say that you hate Tesla, but if someone is having a conversation on it, you don't have to join and call it shit, you just don't have to join in, or simply talk about something else. We don't join in on your conversations about Dacias, Opels, Citroens, etc. and call them shit. We don't jump in on them and say that "Tesla is better", unless Tesla is directly mentioned, but even then, we don't bash it.
indigo coral
i like the model 3, I'd totally get one, but this chat gets very.... fanboy-ish at times
flint sable
However i do love the innovation
carmine summit
I feel like that long thing was directed at me
night current
Not strictly just you, but rather a few people with you may be apart of. Lol
carmine summit
I have nothing against tesla, I'm just saying the cybertruck isn't what people are saying it is
night current
That's perfectly fine. I enjoy conversations like that. This is just directed at Tesla as a whole, not just strictly the cyber truck.
Ain't no problem arguing about one or the other can do, or explaining your opinion.
stoic ledge
Sure, you may not like it, that's fine, it's your opinion, and explaining your reasoning is fine. But everyone in here acts like Tesla is the devil and think it's the worst thing to ever exist.
Well that's just not true. "We" have tried to explain our opinions multiple times, but they were deemed as not true/false by certain individuals, stating their opinions like the only right opinion. After a while, that just gets annoying af.
I can't recall anything that anyone (besides me and Arial) said about the Tesla that's positive.
That's not true at all, falcon for example said he wants one. I have said multiple good things about Tesla before, as I have explained multiple times my opinions about Tesla. The same can be read a few messages above
It also doesn't help that as soon as someone says the word "Tesla", everyone immediately calls it shit. It's like you guys are trying to convince us that Tesla isn't good. It's almost like you guys could be called "gasoline fanboys". It's fine to say that you hate Tesla, but if someone is having a conversation on it, you don't have to join and call it shit, you just don't have to join in, or simply talk about something else. We don't join in on your conversations about Dacias, Opels, Citroens, etc. and call them shit. We don't jump in on them and say that "Tesla is better", unless Tesla is directly mentioned, but even then, we don't bash it.
I don't think you've read either of our posts
dense shard
I'm just here to keep it real.
wheat hatch
But I have yet to see a conversation where someone mentions something bad about the brand.
Because so far, all we have seen is praise up to the heavens.
And then when something else electric car related comes up it's always: "Oh, hurr, this is worse than Tesla."
Whether you like it or not, the conversations about Tesla have been pretty one sided.
Which has turned this nice car company into some glorified god tier company, that can do no wrong.
But like I said, I don't mind Tesla.
I actually like the Model S a lot, especially the one that lapped the ring.
It's really good looking with wider fenders and a much nicer and aggressive diffuser.
But like I said, when the conversation gets one sided it's just boring.
dense shard
Very very boring.
stoic ledge
The fusion between PSA and FCA is apparently coming in the next few weeks
dense shard
I haven't heard anyone opposing it.
Which is strange considering Trump was very fast to label cars a national security matter.
Then again it's technically two foreign entities merging.
indigo coral
Trump is a dumbass.
dense shard
Didn't help we have maybe a couple of cars built and imported from China.
stoic ledge
This Peugeot with Dodge grill looks awesome xD
dense shard
I dig it.
wheat hatch
That registration plate tho
indigo coral
FCA is dying here, they need someone to support them, but if PSA buys them then ehhhhhh
dense shard
But yeah. Buick Enclave and long wheelbase Volve S60 were Chinese built.
stoic ledge
Oof lol
dense shard
Mind you that was the last generation S60... new ones are built in the US now I think.
wheat hatch
FCA? PSA?
stoic ledge
Well FCA trucks are selling ok I guess?
wheat hatch
.Confusion.
dense shard
not okay
indigo coral
fiat chrysler and Peugeot
wheat hatch
Oh
dense shard
FCA trucks are welling brilliantly.
wheat hatch
Ruh roh
dense shard
And are arguably propping up the entire company.
stoic ledge
Current S60 is built in the US, yes
indigo coral
w/o the trucks FCA would be f*cked
they don't sell enough wranglers to sustain the company
dense shard
I believe so. lol
stoic ledge
Yeah pogey
indigo coral
Trucks, Wranglers, and Challengers... Do they sell anything else popular? xD
dense shard
Challengers aren't very popular tho
stoic ledge
RAM + Wrangler is the only thing keeping them up atm xD
dense shard
Grand Cherokee is very popular in the US.
stoic ledge
Is it still? It's old af now isn't it?
dense shard
yep
indigo coral
all of their stuff besides the trucks are old AF
dense shard
And Nissan about to drop a new Rogue.
Making FCA in dire need of new crossovers models.
Ford already has a new Escape on the market, so most of my issues with Ford are disappearing... and being replaced with new issues.
wheat hatch
I want Infiniti to drop infiniti Q50 eau rouge
dense shard
I've been thinking about that tbh.
I'm still laughing for the record.
But Ford isn't alone here.
The new Mazda 3 has a plethora of issues since launch.
Including a recall to tighten the wheel lug nuts, rear view mirrors coming unglued, and safety tech silliness.
stoic ledge
PSA has a nice platform for FCA to make some now cross-overs one
dense shard
I know Toyota had a recall on the 'rolla hatchback.
A few hundred CVT replacements. Something about a potential manufacturing defect.
stoic ledge
Rumors say FCA also is developing a new Journey ánd Grand Cherokee based on the Alfa Romeo Stelvio
dense shard
oh no
stoic ledge
Why Oh no?
fair bronze
oh no
stoic ledge
Stelvio might be the best handling SUV out there
fair bronze
They're not too bad at the moment
night current
I have read it, and yes, I may have skimmed over it therefore missing details and may be wrong. I'll admit that. But the part I want to focus on is the:
"Stop forcing other people to like it"
"We're sick of constantly talking about Tesla"
You make it sound like we're forcing you to like Tesla, but that's not true. We are stating our opinions, and facts from the paper, and just having a conversation. We aren't saying, "Oh, it's the best vehicle, you should really buy one."
If you're sick of talking about Tesla, then just don't join in on the conversation, or start a new one, or if you're in one, just be done talking. This is a Discord with multiple people, you guys can easily start a conversation about a different vehicle.
Red Baboon, no one here has said
"Oh, this is worse than Tesla."
And I don't think the conversations about Tesla are one sided. You and a few others mentioned your dislikes about the vehicle which is fine. Me and Arial like Tesla's, therefore I will talk with him about Tesla's, which may make you think that it's one sided.
Anyways, whether I am right or wrong, I don't care. It's best for all of us to just be done with this, and talk about something else. (Yes I know this message is after your nice conversations, but this is my reply that took me a few minutes to make.)
stoic ledge
Current Stelvio/Giulia is quite reliable'
stoic ledge
I haven't heart any bad of it
fair bronze
Not yet
dense shard
I wouldn't trust Alfa around my products.
stoic ledge
Well they have been out for a couple of years
dense shard
The Giulia is a dog.
I think every reviewer mentioned something going wrong during the test.
fair bronze
I don't like the Stelvio, it's a car that was only made because it is an extremely well selling segment
dense shard
Car and Driver's example was even worse. lol
indigo coral
i've heard of loads of the alfas breaking
dense shard
Apparently their car ended up in the shop for a very long time.
fair bronze
I do like the Giulia, it looks nice
dense shard
Personally not a huge fan.
dense shard
Oh I'm sure they do.
fair bronze
But it can never beat the looks of the 159
dense shard
^
stoic ledge
But the 159 was FWD
dense shard
Actually the new Alfas look a bit... soft?
fair bronze
Yeah but it looks amazing
stoic ledge
3.2 V6 was way to heavy in the front
dense shard
It's the same issue I have with Mercedes and BMW to an extent.
stoic ledge
1.75 TBI was the best engine to get
fair bronze
The 1750 ooohhhhh
wheat hatch
I like the Alfa's
Took them a while to release something new
fair bronze
The Giulietta is ancient
stoic ledge
Great platform for FCA to add some new cross-overs on
wheat hatch
And you somehow know it's an alfa by just looking at it, even without the badges
fair bronze
Still a good design though imho
dense shard
oh they're easy to tell apart.
They have that pointy grill up front.
Those nifty narrow taillights.
wheat hatch
Man... Citroen, that aircross is so odd looking
fair bronze
It looks cool irl
stoic ledge
I actually like the look of the C5 Aircross
dense shard
Same.
indigo coral
reminds me of the Mitsubishi Mirage
stoic ledge
Lol wtf xD
wheat hatch
I like the one next to it
fair bronze
I've driven the C5 Aircross, not a huge fan tbh
wheat hatch
How come JD?
fair bronze
It feels distant
stoic ledge
Suspension of the C5 Aircross is really set on comfort
dense shard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCbKlF53KSM Yeah, still not a fan of the front end.
fair bronze
Kinda empty
dense shard
oh come on youtube.
fair bronze
I never expected it to be sporty lol
dense shard
I'm fine with distant. I want comfy if I'm driving a Citroen.
fair bronze
I think the RX is less distant than that
indigo coral
eeehhhh
dense shard
People bitched about the Rogue... then I drove it.
fair bronze
Especially since it's not a modern car
dense shard
Lovely comfy car.
wheat hatch
The selling point for me with the Giulia is that the engine is just a ferrari engine with 2 less cylinders
So uh... a budget ferrari?
fair bronze
Yes it's amazing
stoic ledge
If you get the Q: yes Baboon xD
dense shard
Too bad the Ferrari collab is over.
wheat hatch
Yeah 😛
stoic ledge
Otherwise it's a 2.0T or 2.2 diesel
wheat hatch
What? Oh noes
fair bronze
Quadrofoglio Verde
dense shard
There's a lot of weirdness, but apparently Ferrari is no longer giving engines to FCA.
fair bronze
Or was it quadrifoglio
wheat hatch
@stoic ledge Luckily the Quadro costs as much an M3/M4 here
stoic ledge
The currert Alfas are only Quadrofoglio, not Quadrofoglio Verde
dense shard
Maserati, Alfa need to go their own way now.
indigo coral
rx350 in 07 is the most dead car I've ever driven tbh
fair bronze
I don't speak mamma mia
dense shard
Love Savage Geese. I love his presentation style.
stoic ledge
@wheat hatch so it does here, both are just much more expensive xD
indigo coral
imo hes a bit dull but has good information
stoic ledge
quadrifoglio = 🍀 , verde = 🟩
fair bronze
It's Quadrifoglio
stoic ledge
@wheat hatch so it does here, both are just much more expensive xD
fair bronze
I said QuadrOfoglio
dense shard
I say Quad-er-fog-leo
stoic ledge
I lol I see now
dense shard
Just to annoy the alfa fans.
stoic ledge
I just copied it because I was to lazy to write it myself
dense shard
Remember. To best annoy Civic fans. Use cubic inches when referring to their engine displacement.
fair bronze
I'm more annoyed by people saying Lamborgenie
stoic ledge
> Cubic inches
wheat hatch
@stoic ledge OOF
stoic ledge
> Inches
dense shard
My understanding is the correct way is to say Lambor-jeanie
fair bronze
No
dense shard
Just like it's Porsch-u
fair bronze
NO
dense shard
Look, guys.
wheat hatch
I say quadrororurorurorofogliojoiojoio
dense shard
You can't just go "no"
fair bronze
Oh wait yes
fair bronze
Porsch-uh is correct
stoic ledge
Koenigseggeggeggeggeggeggeggeggeggegg
wheat hatch
^+1
stoic ledge
Btw the DS 7 does have an extremly nice interior
stoic ledge
Yes Discord has been lagging for a while
fair bronze
Hmm
dense shard
oh hey, I've misread the phonetic alphabet.
It's funny how pissed they get when I mispronounce a name, but when I try to correct them with my name they're like "whatever lol"
stoic ledge
Look at those seats 👀
dense shard
nifty
fair bronze
I'm kinda overreacting on purpose but whatever lol
dense shard
My point stands.
stoic ledge
Oof Mercedes added a A250e to their line-up, idk if the US is getting it as well
dense shard
Doubt it.
stoic ledge
1.3T 160hp + 102hp 300Nm elecetric motor
indigo coral
oof
dense shard
America usually gets the bigger engine option.
stoic ledge
Combined 218hp
dense shard
God forbid an American has an engine that's smaller than the two liter he chugs on the way from the super market.
stoic ledge
A250(e) is the bigger engine option xD
fair bronze
Why have I driven so many cars lately
dense shard
Back in my day.
stoic ledge
We also get the A160, 180, 200
dense shard
A250 would have implied a 2.5 liter engine.
fair bronze
I have driven the A-Class with the 1.3T, it felt kinda rough
stoic ledge
1.3T is a Renault Engine pogey
fair bronze
Yes I know
stoic ledge
It's not bad, but could be better
dense shard
here we go.
fair bronze
I don't like it
dense shard
A220 is the base trim we have in the US.
fair bronze
The old 1.6T was way nicer
stoic ledge
Yeah that's with everything
dense shard
wow it looks dopey.
stoic ledge
Mercedes, BMW, Audi...
dense shard
I thought new Audis were 1.8?
stoic ledge
Mercedes and BMW are historically relevant tho, Audi's naming is.... just odd
TFSI 35, uhm ok thnx Audi
dense shard
lol
stoic ledge
That's like a 2.0T 190hp iirc
dense shard
TFSI means... uhhhhhhh
stoic ledge
I. Just. Does. Not. Make. Sense
dense shard
Turbo, direct injection
stoic ledge
Well TFSI is gas + turbo
fair bronze
My neighbor thought he had a loaner A4 with a 3.5 liter engine lol
dense shard
No idea what the FS mean.
stoic ledge
Variable valve timing iirc
dense shard
T is for turbo! F is for... uhhhh fuel! S is for ssssssssss. and I is for Direct Injection!
stoic ledge
But Audi TFSI == VW TSI
fair bronze
Pretty much