cars

[dense shard]

My car is a bit weird.

I should probably turn DRLs back on for the auto setting.

[civic girder]

I think it's running lights, because the DRLs are going to be a different part of that

[dense shard]

For my car it is.

Much to the annoyance of various 2019/2020 Corolla owners.

[civic girder]

?

[dense shard]

Most want the headlights to be off, and just have the running lights on for the DRLs.

[civic girder]

interesting

[dense shard]

We want just the swoopy bits dammit.

[civic girder]

running lights vs DRLs must have changed definitions since I last checked

[dense shard]

ah, okay

[civic girder]

but idk for sure

[dense shard]

The swoops bits are technically called the parking lights.

[civic girder]

parking lights are running lights, by the technical definition, iirc

[dense shard]

sure, but DRLs aren't running lights.

In the US at any rate.

[civic girder]

yea, that's what I thought

[dense shard]

okay, we're on the same page, lol

[civic girder]

"parking lights" are what I call running lights
and DRLs are the automatic lights that the car decides to turn on during the day

[dense shard]

right

[civic girder]

I call them running lights because I drive with them on all the time

the Prius, I literally never turn them off

[dense shard]

I leave em off.

[civic girder]

I use them in an effort to make myself more visible to other drivers

parking lights usually run some amber bulbs up front, and run the taillights in the back

[dense shard]

I leave em off since my car dims all the screens inside when I turn em on.

Which is annoying.

[civic girder]

ah, see the Prius has a manual override for the dash brightness

which is why I can run them all the time

[dense shard]

I could adjust the brightness, but I find it annoying to do that again when the sun sets.

I'm a set it and forget it kinda guy.

[civic girder]

I have a little knob

so there's no effort

and the RX-7 I can run the parking lights all the time because I can turn off the dash lights during the day and then turn them on during the night

the only thing I can't adjust with parking lights on in the RX-7 is the clock display brightness, which is why I don't often run those lights midday

mainly due to the fact that I have to look down at the clock, which conflicts when the sun shines down on it

[dense shard]

also not sure if my car does this.

But a lot of cars right now turn off a DRL when you use a turn signal.

[civic girder]

I think most cars do that

imo, I hate it

[dense shard]

Which is why I don't run DRLs.

[civic girder]

just leave the DRL on

or yea, don't run them

[dense shard]

If you can't see my car

And you run into it.

That's on you.

[civic girder]

yea

[dense shard]

And I sincerely doubt any number of lights would have helped.

[civic girder]

what really pisses me off though, is when I'm stopped on an uphill slope for a red light, and some dumbass pulls up super close to me while I'm in the RX-7

like, bruh

[dense shard]

You gotta be a pro.

[civic girder]

I'm gonna roll backwards when the light turns green

right after I had just gotten the RX-7 running again, and was still learning manual (this was on the old dry rotted tires, so I didn't care), there was a guy who basically was touching my bumper at this stop light

I had no choice but to hard launch with the handbrake pulled or I would've rolled back into him

I've gotten better at driving standard, so it's less of a concern but I still get pissed when people do it

[fathom socket]

eh nobody has any respect for manual transmissions anymore

[dense shard]

It's annoying for sure.

[civic girder]

at this point, if I were to roll back into someone I'd argue that they were at fault for not giving me proper space

[dense shard]

Even with brake hill assist it's annoying.

It's not an issue of respecting manuals.

It's just automatics aren't inferior any longer.

And they're hella convenient.

[civic girder]

Sometimes my Prius doesn't have enough idle torque to move uphill, and I legit roll backwards; so I could argue the same thing in that car

in my mind, if I roll back into you, that's your fault for not being considerate for me or yourself

and if you take any damage, I ain't payin for that shit

[dense shard]

Moving cars get assigned the blame for most collisions.

[civic girder]

unfortunately

doesn't mean I won't fight it

cause there are some things you can't help, such as rolling backwards

like, bitch, if I hit you while trying to get moving in first gear; you were waaaaaaaaaaaaay too fucking close

[dense shard]

Can't speak to the RX-7.

But I became a master in the Contour.

[civic girder]

I've gotten significantly better, partially because we have some weird stop lights in my town

where you can basically be sitting at a 45 degree angle (almost)

I'm still not perfect, because I am slow to let off the clutch, but I'm not as worried about rolling into people anymore

reason I'm still pretty slow off the clutch is because I'm still a noob; but also because rotary life, no tork = rev high to move, and I don't want to let up too fast lest I stall or fucking jerk my way into a pathetic hard launch

[dense shard]

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/dq8ldhj56aalkwljheun.jpg

Well... it's a start.

Ignoring the fact they're utterly absent in Alabama.

Still... a good start.

[civic girder]

the only charging stations near me, that I know of, are at a "touristy" little town on my way to work and a few spots on campus at my school

actually, there might also be one downtown

[dense shard]

Alabama is no better for Tesla superchargers tbh.

We have maybe 5 in the entire state?

None close to my house.

[civic girder]

oh, this is not Tesla chargers

the only Tesla chargers I know of are on campus at the school my friend goes to and maybe one or two downtown

[dense shard]

oh... wait. 7 super chargers and 3 more destination chargers.

[civic girder]

I live in Ohio for context

[dense shard]

I can drive to the beach no problem.

Or Atlanta.

[civic girder]

I can go nowhere special, really fast

it's called stepping outside

[dense shard]

Actually strike the Birmingham charger.

[civic girder]

?

[dense shard]

It's in a less than excellent part of town.

[civic girder]

oof

[dense shard]

And the interstate it is next to has been torn down.

Alabama DOT is rebuilding it.

[civic girder]

oof

the only chargers I am aware of are in decent parts of town, if less than ideal

such as back corner of college campus

or Panera Bread/Whole foods parking lot

[dense shard]

I think I'm gonna commit a mistake.

And go to that sketchy part of town tomorrow.

And see if the junk yard doesn't have an arm rest for a civic.

[fathom socket]

do it

i love sketchy junk yards

[unreal terrace]

If you buy a car from a certain dealer in South Carolina, they'll include; An American flag, a Bible and an Ar-15

[dense shard]

Skip, Skip, depends on who makes it.

[fathom socket]

god bless America

[stoic ledge]

pogey

[jagged coyote]

queue the bolt extractor kit

[stoic ledge]

That's the average Tesla on delivery, yes

[indigo coral]

😂

[wheat hatch]

How is that even possible?
So many questions right now.

[indigo coral]

iirc lady bought a tesla, floored it out of the shop, and tada

because

ya know

teslas are fqcking fast

and she probably had like a prius or something

[wheat hatch]

What was she thinking?
Flooring an electric performance car...

.kek.

[indigo coral]

people have the perception of EVs as being slow, ugly cars (first gen leaf)

2nd gen leaf is better

still flawed though

[night current]

Imagine having less than 3 miles on your Tesla, then crashing it... Fat F

[unreal terrace]

Meh, it's just a dishwasher

[unreal terrace]

https://youtu.be/mUO5bp-wyLU

Watching this made me wonder if and when there's performance oriented hydrogen fuel cell cars? And like How'd you tune one to make more power?

[dense shard]

Increase motor output.

My understanding is the fuel cells charge a small battery, and all goes from there.

[unreal terrace]

You but eventually you'd have to have the fuel cell create more power

And How'd that be done? And what would result of that? More heat and hydrogen/oxygen consumption and more water to shed?

[desert glen]

Dealerships are a pain in the ass

[dense shard]

I don't think you can upgrade fuel cells.

Then again the same issues face high performance electrics.

Battery generates a lot of heat.

[unreal terrace]

Leaked image of me at work

Maybe there aren't any ways now, like there weren't many when the ottomotor came to be

[stoic ledge]

https://insideevs.com/news/376037/tesla-mcu-emmc-memory-issue/

[shadow osprey]

Sweet desktop bro

[dense shard]

oh yeah. Teslas cook memory chips.

“They are replacing many units at service centers, and unfortunately, the computer goes to waste when only a replacement chip is necessary.”

So Tesla's approach to automotive repairs is no different than legacy automakers.

Arguably worse since automakers usually implement a fix.

It would be easier if you could just turn logging off.

Tesla should know better, and implement a permanent fix.

[stoic ledge]

Yes, but this is cheap to make (:

Any other brand would provide a recall, and change the chip by a larger one and/or software update

Tesla be like adding features no one asked for, but leaving software which will brick your car (:

[indigo coral]

they'll never learn will they

Why on Gods green earth are they using eMmc in a 120k car anyways? Should be at least high end MLC.

[unreal terrace]

Probably price

[indigo coral]

That's ridiculous

They fairly recently redesigned the MCU, it better have had better flash in it.

Compared to the replacement cost of teh entire unit, a few MLC chips are not that much more expensive than a eMMC chip

[unreal terrace]

If the emmc is $2 cheaper and you're making 1 million cars, it adds up

[indigo coral]

yes, but then you have to replace a ton of MCUs which I bet costs more than 2$

[stoic ledge]

But Tesla isn't paying for that 😉

[unreal terrace]

That would be forward thinking to do that :p

[indigo coral]

I still think thats a bad place to cut costs

[stoic ledge]

Ofcourse it is

[indigo coral]

Usually tesla is good about making robust tech, if less than stellar build quality

Apparently this is an exception

[unreal terrace]

Maybe it's better than saving $2 on airbaigs or breaks

[indigo coral]

Not what I meant

[unreal terrace]

I find it more often than not that car makers save money on something for a reason

[stoic ledge]

Maybe just don't save that $2, even if that means selling the car for $50 more

[indigo coral]

^^^^^

[unreal terrace]

Not to make more money, but for something beneficial

[indigo coral]

I'd pay an extra 50 bucks to get solid storage instead of shit sandwiches

[stoic ledge]

And it's something every Model S/X will suffer from sooner or later Pogey

[indigo coral]

what does an MCU cost from Tesla, like 8k?

[stoic ledge]

$4k for parts and labor iirc

[indigo coral]

huh, not as bad as j thought

[stoic ledge]

Well if you use some low end hardware like eemc, it's not that expensive

xD

[indigo coral]

tru

[eager kite]

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1183081171644628992

Elon Musk (@elonmusk)

@wk057 @Tesla Should be much better at this point

Likes

1177

Twitter

[indigo coral]

Prove to me that he's not full of shit

a tweet by elon musk isnt confirmation

[eager kite]

prove that he is

[indigo coral]

are the new cars still using emmc?

[eager kite]

(all cars use it yes)

[indigo coral]

Then the problems aren't going to go away, unless he does away with logging.

[eager kite]

Yea, they've been changing the software on the cars since their inception

[indigo coral]

Yes, but Tesla wants your data thus they can't just not log cars anymore

so... until they upgrade to a real storage solution, its not truly fixed.

[eager kite]

what do you mean "a real storage solution"

[indigo coral]

A dram-inclusive SSD with wear leveling.

If they're going to pile data on and off of it, it needs to be durable.

[eager kite]

I guarantee there is wear leveling on their current setup

[indigo coral]

Clearly not effective enough, or not spread over enough emmc flash chips

[eager kite]

If you still did not understand what happens, every Tesla has an MCU, or media control unit. Version 1, also called MCUv1, equipped Tesla Model S and Model X units up to 2018.

This design of controller isn't being used anymore either

[indigo coral]

I know that all Teslas have MCUs...

If they resolved the issue, great.

But if not, thats something that needs to be rectified.

[eager kite]

well, we haven't been seeing problems yet on the new units so...

[indigo coral]

Thats because they're still new..

and haven't had time for the solid state storage to degrade

[eager kite]

sure, so we'll see pretty soon whether or not they also have a problem

[stoic ledge]

Well the Model S/X units also worked fine the first couple of years ;)

[indigo coral]

exactly ^

well "fine"

Lots of crashes with the older S/X MCUs

[stoic ledge]

That specific fault didn't occur yet* xD

[indigo coral]

Oh yeah the LCD bubbling thing was a big problem too

[stoic ledge]

Yes

[indigo coral]

now that one was just embarassing

[stoic ledge]

It were only 6 figure cars, can't expect too much ofc

[indigo coral]

totally

20y/o LCD is fine in a 40k car (new price)
Tesla Model S screeen bubbling and leaking literally all over the floor

[stoic ledge]

Yes

[indigo coral]

(yes, I know. different kinds of screens. Still.)

[stoic ledge]

Still, it's the only screen I've ever seen in a car, or even anywhere, which did that

[indigo coral]

I've seen a couple laptops and stuff that have problems

its the glue in the screen going to sh*t

[stoic ledge]

Oof never seen it in laptops

[indigo coral]

was an older Dell laptop

from their shitty-period

They used to be good, then went bad for a number of years, and recently have really fixed stuff up and improved their act

[stoic ledge]

Oof

looks at Dell laptop with touchscreen

[indigo coral]

What year

like how long ago did you get it

[stoic ledge]

3 years old now

[indigo coral]

yeah that one is fine

the more recent Dells are decent

HP is bottom of the stack now imo

[stoic ledge]

confetti_ball

Yes, HP is shite

[indigo coral]

glances at my Microsoft Surface and MacBook Air

I have weird tastes

[stoic ledge]

Yes (:

[indigo coral]

all apple device
as microsoft as it gets device

lol

[stoic ledge]

https://youtu.be/jJPQfWCuxAo

It's this one, but then a fancier spec pogey

[indigo coral]

thats not bad

[stoic ledge]

i7 vs i5, 16GB vs 8GB, SSD vs SSHD, 4K touch vs 1080p

[indigo coral]

damn, not bad at all

[stoic ledge]

Only $1100/€1100 so amazing value

[indigo coral]

if I add my specs together I have 8gb of RAM, a quad core cpu and 393gb SSD

XD

[stoic ledge]

Oof lol

[indigo coral]

Surface has 4gb RAM and i5 4300u + 128gb SSD
MacBook has 4gb RAM and i5 3427u + 256gb

[stoic ledge]

I can't survive with 4GB of RAM

[indigo coral]

Might I add that MacOS handles less ram FAR more gracefully than windows?

[stoic ledge]

Yes I'm aware if that

[indigo coral]

Like.... I don't hardly have to change my usage patterns going from 32gb on my desktop to 4 on there. all the chrome tabs

really kind of surprised how far 4gb goes on macos

[stoic ledge]

Well for basic browsing stuff it should be enough (:

[indigo coral]

I do lots of chrome tabs, music, email, eclipse/intellij, word, etc

all at once

and its fine

[stoic ledge]

I crashed our iMac with 4GB of RAM while rendering a video 😄

[indigo coral]

Rip

I've not tried editing anything on it cause I have better computers for that

worst case I'd grab my windows laptop

(ZenBook UX 330 UA - Core i5 7200u, 8gb RAM)

Or just ya kno... use my desktop

[stoic ledge]

Well the video was on there so made sense, even if it took longer... But it crashed mid render xD

> having a desktop

I don't have such luxury

(:

[indigo coral]

o?

why?

[stoic ledge]

No space/use for it

[indigo coral]

huh

rip

I have a 3 monitor monstrosity of a desktop 👀

[stoic ledge]

I have... An Xbox with a 4k tv, does that count? xD

Anyway we're getting kinda offtopic xD

[indigo coral]

a lil bit

I wish the 3900x wasn't so damn expensive though 0.o

Otherwise I'd upgrade

[stoic ledge]

Ryzen 3000 is ok_hand

Would recommend

[indigo coral]

I have a 1700X right now which is fine but like

#TeamRed

xD

[stoic ledge]

Still a capable CPU

[indigo coral]

ye

i have a mild all core OC on it up to 3.8

mines not a crazy overclocker

if I oc the cores, memory won't go over 2666 with all 4 sticks

If I leave the cores stock, it will hit 3000

with only 2 i can hit 3200 (rated speed of RAM) but then I'm stuck with 16gb of RAM

while overclocked*

you tryna get banned mk? ;p

[stoic ledge]

Yeah Ryzen did some weird stuff with RAM speeds ;)

And the only ban emojis in comments, atleast that's what they"ve done so far ;) Not reactions

Anyway it's 12.30 AM, so I'm going to hit the hay stuck_out_tongue

[indigo coral]

goodnight.

[flint sable]

hold up

this is cars chat right lmao

[indigo coral]

yes, we just got off topic lool

[flint sable]

can relate

[eager kite]

epic computer time

[dense shard]

Just to go back to the Tesla thing. Tesla has implemented all the usual things that solid state drives have. Problem was they did away with any buffer for wear leveling thanks to massive updates they implemented on top of logging. The chips were doing things no one expected them to do. So it was an 8 gig drive with only 8 gigs of total actual storage to work with. There was no redundancy... not that it would have helped. The constant writing/overwriting cycle is killing memory chips inside the warranty... All you do with a larger chip is delay the failure.

As for proving if Musk is bullshitting with his tweets....

He was sued by the SEC over a tweet.

[indigo coral]

multiple times*

[dense shard]

And he's facing a defamation suite over that Thai cave rescue thing.

[indigo coral]

Or at least got his arse in trouble

[dense shard]

Those were all tweets.

[indigo coral]

that too

[dense shard]

Also I'm sure I could find tweets where he promised full production of the Model 3 before 2017 ended.

Which never happened. In fact saying the Model 3 launched in Q3 of 2017 is like saying that Nvidia announcing a new GPU is a 'launch.'

[indigo coral]

ecksdee

[dense shard]

They delivered how many cars again? A dozen in august?

[indigo coral]

didn't they sell like 200 Model 3s in 2017?

30 cars i think at their "event"

Model 3 kind of has flopped so far... hopefully sales pick up as they sort shit out

[dense shard]

1667 cars in 2017.

Not a flop.

[indigo coral]

All the bad quality stuff - they

[dense shard]

Because it sold 140k in 2018.

113k so far in 2019.

[indigo coral]

thats not that good

tbh

[dense shard]

oh?

[indigo coral]

ford f150 sold over a million both times

explorer sold like a million each time

each year*

[dense shard]

Let's look at it like this.

The Mazda 3 sold half that amount in 2018.

The CX-5 barely outsold the Model 3.

[indigo coral]

Also the model 3 is handily getting its ass beat by the volvo (mks fanboy car), etron, ipace is meh

etc

theyre similar performance but way better quality

that merc eqc is sh*t though

[dense shard]

I would NOT call a modern Volvo good.

Their new 4 cylinders have been universally panned.

Good looking, sure.

[indigo coral]

mk loves the polestar stuff

[dense shard]

But the tech used has been clunky.

[indigo coral]

tesla is gonna go completely irrelevant in Europe if mk is to be believed, that ionity is getting bigger than SC network

[dense shard]

And all the competition in the electric car space doesn't perform as well as Tesla.

[indigo coral]

but do they have the reliability, quality and customer service issues of tesla?

[dense shard]

Tesla has the range edge.

In the case of VW... yes.

[indigo coral]

vw doesn't even make electric cars do they?

[dense shard]

In the case of JLR... Tesla is vastly better.

VW does a few electrics.

If you call the California special eGolf an electric car.

[indigo coral]

oh rith

right

[dense shard]

I don't.

[indigo coral]

i forgot about the egolf

[dense shard]

Dedicated electric cars... I'd rather have a Tesla.

Cause all of them have/will have issues.

[indigo coral]

You'd take a Model 3 over an E-Tron?

[dense shard]

At least Tesla is built in the US.

At this point?

Yeah I would.

If I can afford an electric car... I'm going for the max novelty... and max range.

[indigo coral]

etron is going to have a real service network, better interior, better reliability, etc. Model 3 will be faster and have slightly better range

[dense shard]

We don't know about better reliability.

And interior is highly subjective.

Audis have always been a bit sterile to me.

[indigo coral]

i've not heard of total failure of motors/batteries/interior functions like i have about model s in particular

[dense shard]

Because the etron has been out for... what?

3 months?

[indigo coral]

??

longer than that

[dense shard]

How long?

[indigo coral]

6ish months i think

longer than that in europe

[dense shard]

That's less than a year.

With brand new tech, and a brand new platform.

[indigo coral]

if tesla could get their head out of their ass i'd love to have one but as of now... I'd never actually buy one.

[dense shard]

I have yet to see VW take their head out of theirs.

[indigo coral]

I don't want to be stranded on the side of the road then be without my car for 6 months

[dense shard]

A decade of lying and bullshitting consumers...

The fact they did away with the 7 year warranty recently...

They've delayed the new gen Golf because they were having software issues.

That's on top of VW's less than stellar reputation in the US of building cheap cars that are expensive to repair.

[indigo coral]

at least you can fix a VW yourself/ buy parts/rebuild one without being blacklisted from the network

[dense shard]

Parts aren't cheap.

[indigo coral]

cheap or not you can't even get most of the parts for Teslas

they give rebuilders a big fat fuck you

[dense shard]

And do you really think you'll be anymore able to fix a buggy E-Tron than a Model S?

[indigo coral]

I doubt audi will be as anal about selling parts

[dense shard]

No, just charge you 3 times more.

I'd maybe consider the Audi... if it had an extra 100 miles of range.

The Model 3 is cheaper, longer legged, is currently a known factor.

Build quality issues aside... which I'm assuming Tesla is working out... The Model 3 is the easy choice.

Unless you must have a crossover thing... in which case the Mercedes is a better choice.

[indigo coral]

The EQC?

[dense shard]

yep

[indigo coral]

it's a steaming pile of (ugly) crap

doesn't it only get like... 150 miles of range?

[dense shard]

259

[indigo coral]

is that WTLP/EPA?

[dense shard]

yes

[indigo coral]

so half that

[dense shard]

Audi's is 239

[indigo coral]

lol

[dense shard]

If this was MY money on the line.

I'd get either a Nissan or a Hyundai/Kia thingie.

[indigo coral]

A Leaf?

L O L .

[dense shard]

I see no reason at all to spend more than 40 grand on an electric car.

[indigo coral]

roasting your battery isn't fun

the leaf doesn't have active cooling

otherwise it'd be fine

[dense shard]

Nor is spending 80k on a car that will be obsolete within 2 years.

[indigo coral]

good luck going on a road trip in a leaf

and charging at like 22kw

[dense shard]

Good luck on doing that with any electric that isn't a Tesla in the US.

[indigo coral]

I mean even a tesla is impractical for road trips in the us

better than nothing, but theres not enough superchargers yet

not even close

[vital glen]

You have to be very strategic

it's not a roadtrip, it's a chore

[dense shard]

If I want to do an Atlanta airport trip in one charge.

Only Tesla has what I want.

[indigo coral]

triple the number of them and then you're getting close i'd think

to having enough to only have to make minimal plans

[dense shard]

300 miles is the absolute minimum in the US for an electric car.

[indigo coral]

I meant adding more superchargers

[dense shard]

At least if I was to own only one car.

[indigo coral]

isn't ionity not gonna even bother to build out a network in the US?

theyre europe only?

[dense shard]

Otherwise I'm using the car as a commuter pod, and a Leaf will suffice.

I guess Ionity is fine being a big fish in a small pond.

Meaning the US will continue to be dominated by Tesla.

[indigo coral]

also the new version of the taycan is a model s fighter finally

the Taycan 4S

[dense shard]

I hate to agree with Arial, but the price is killing me.

[indigo coral]

110k or something

[dense shard]

It's 180k.

[indigo coral]

the 4S isn't

they announced a lower tier one

[dense shard]

With how much range?

[indigo coral]

1 sec

[dense shard]

Cause the top nacho is already down in the P100.

[indigo coral]

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/porsche-taycan-4s-revealed/

[dense shard]

So Porsche still has to beat Tesla's 350 mile range.

[indigo coral]

Still bloody expensive but at least similar pricing to a P100D

though slightly worse performance (if it even matters at this point)

Model S is 370 isn't it?

[dense shard]

I'm seeing 350ish, but if its 370... that's 20 miles more the Porsche has to go to impress me.

[indigo coral]

i mean thats the reason the Model X is so ...polarizing.. is the aero

I don't mind the looks but some people think its ass ugly

[dense shard]

And some people will find the Taycan disgusting.

[indigo coral]

I think the taycan looks nice

[dense shard]

Personally I'm disgusted by their naming scheme.

[indigo coral]

turbo and trubo s?

lol

[dense shard]

What the fuck is a Taycan

[indigo coral]

oh

[dense shard]

And where is the bloody turbo?

[indigo coral]

they had some complex justification for it

the naming

[dense shard]

Should have called it the chipotle

Cause Porsche loves their TexMex.

[indigo coral]

also jaguar is a bit of an idiot

they named a crossover the E-Pace and their EV the I-Pace

uhhh

should have named the Electric the E-Pace

[dense shard]

I think the British trying to make an electric car is adorable.

It's like a kid trying to do advanced physics with a crayon.

The British are legendary at being bad with electronics.

[indigo coral]

lol

[dense shard]

So far they're living up to their reputation.

I'm curious to see what Honda and Toyota will cough up.

[indigo coral]

honda is planning to sell the e

just

e

hasn't toyota said no all electrics?

only hybridization and hydrogens?

[dense shard]

They're playing it safe for now.

There isn't enough of a demand for electrics.

Tesla is powered by memes.

[indigo coral]

somehow I recall toyota execs saying that EV is a failed tech and hydrogen is the true future or whatever

no wonder theyre shitty quality

[dense shard]

VAG is powered by dieselgate.

That leaves JLR and Nissan.

Nissan is half assing it for now.

[indigo coral]

and jlr is doing whatever they can to avoid going under

lol

[dense shard]

And I have no clue why Jaguar released an electric.

[indigo coral]

because jaguar isnt long for this world

Range Rover / Land Rover is doing alright, but Jaguar is doing very badly

[dense shard]

I think they were expecting electrics to take off in 2017.

[indigo coral]

I've never seen an iPace in the wild

not once

[dense shard]

That leaves Ford and GM.

[indigo coral]

I've seen 10-20 E-Trons and hundreds, if not thousands of Teslas

Ford makes an EV!

The Ford Focus Electric....

[dense shard]

Honestly I'd put more faith in Toyota than Ford right now.

[indigo coral]

Whcih is literally just like

a halfassed eV

[dense shard]

The Electric Focus was just a California Special.

It doesn't count.

[eager kite]

Toyota is going down the wrong path with hydrogen

[indigo coral]

i see them fairly often actually lol

[dense shard]

Toyota is hedging their bets.

And probably waiting on solid state. lol

[indigo coral]

but I live in an area where theres lots of EVs so

[dense shard]

Hydrogen fuel cells are just an alternative battery.

[indigo coral]

oh right theres the Hyundai Ioniq EV

which is a pretty damn good little car from what I've heard

[eager kite]

Hydrogen is an EV with extra steps

[dense shard]

Cause everything after that... Toyota is just a generic EV.

Ioniq is blah.

Interior quality is like a last gen Civic.

[indigo coral]

my friend has the 2018 civic and its not half bad wym?

its surprisingly nice inside actually

[dense shard]

2018 is current.

[indigo coral]

i thought they refreshed it this year

[dense shard]

I'm talking about the turd Honda squeezed out in 2012.

A refresh isn't a generational jump.

They changed a bumper... big whoop

[indigo coral]

I always hated the 2008 civic

its so ugly up front

[dense shard]

The 2008 was the one before that.

[indigo coral]

yeah but still

just shudders

[dense shard]

I don't mind the design, but the interior material quality was about on par with the Ioniq today.

Aggressively unimpressive.

[indigo coral]

my car has some rattles 😦

(and if I push on the dash it squeaks)

[dense shard]

Perhaps the electric is better than the hybrid Ioniq.

[indigo coral]

interior quality was much less of a priority in the 90s I guess

lol

[dense shard]

But I stand by what I said.

Impressed I am not.

Dunno... 90s and early 2000s Honda was fairly good on quality.

[indigo coral]

mine has squeaks and rattles

[dense shard]

My 01 accord had soft touch surfaces.

[indigo coral]

and some plastic

so

[dense shard]

It's a 20 year old car.

It'll have some noises.

[indigo coral]

some parts of mine are soft touch, some parts (under the screen and stuff) are just plastic

which is kind of disappointing in a (converted for inflation) 65k car

Some people hav e said the wood is real

I'm skeptical

[dense shard]

Could and likely is a veneer.

Technically it counts.

[indigo coral]

I wonder if its possible to fix the rattles...

[dense shard]

Depends on the rattles.

My fix was to wedge a piece of folded up paper in the squeaky bit.

That actually worked.

Looked stupid, but it worked.

[indigo coral]

your brand new corolla has rattles?

[dense shard]

nah, this was my Accord.

[indigo coral]

oh ok good

[dense shard]

Metis is silent for now.

[indigo coral]

My moms explorer has a rattle in the buttons on the door -.-

like the seat memory buttons

if you put your hand on it, it stops

[dense shard]

Ignoring the screaming of the lane departure when I fall asleep mid drive.

(I don't do that, it's a joke.)

[indigo coral]

I got close to rear ending someone today, they decided to lock em' up to try and make a turn

damn people, just go to the next spot and turn around

[dense shard]

naaaaah

Gotta now

And check my insta while at it.

[indigo coral]

I had to seriousyl step on the brakes. Annoying.

anyways

I need to take apart my dash and replace my air mix servo soon

its making bad noises that are getitng worse, aka its gonna die soon

[dense shard]

good luck

[indigo coral]

should be fairly straightforward, just gotta take out glovebox and cd changer which I've done before

[eager kite]

https://twitter.com/teslaffinity/status/1184548394859151362

Teslaffinity (@teslaffinity)

Alright, time to rip the $TESLAQ thesis to shreds, a thread.

Twitter

[stoic ledge]

Woah more propaganda

[indigo coral]

😂

[eager kite]

anything wrong with what he's saying tho? @stoic ledge

[dense shard]

Tesla delivered a total of 245,240 vehicles in 2018

yes

They're off by a factor of two on cars delivered.

/Second, they are the only company that has a global charging infrastructure for their cars, meaning people can actually travel in their cars and not just have daily commuter cars like what every other EV on the road is basically limited to./

Global is being super generous here. They have the most wide spread, but global is a bit of a reach.

[unreal terrace]

Ye

I havent seen a tesla Charing station yet

[dense shard]

They are in a good place to dump Tesla though.

Or so they claim.

[unreal terrace]

I've seen several non Tesla ones tho

[dense shard]

I've seen only non-tesla chargers in Japan.

But I didn't go out of my way to find super chargers... so take my experience with a grain of salt.

Can't speak for the NHTSA stats. I wasn't aware they release the full statistics.

Either way. It tops the charts, so that's a plus.

/Fifth, all Tesla cars produced today have all the hardware required for full self-driving. Each car has a suite of sensors and cameras, along with an industry-leading ASIC computer to process data and relay controls to the car, more info here:/

Highly arguable.

gross profit margin

Big freaking deal.

Doesn't matter if you are overall losing money.

[indigo coral]

in the hundreds of millions

[dense shard]

Dunno about #8.

Large scale batteries have been deployed in Australia... so yay?

/Ninth, Elon predicts that Tesla will be producing 1.5 million cars in 2021 and 3 million cars in 2023./

Tesla predicted 5000 cars a week in 2017.

And then predicted 250k a year sold for the Model 3... ?

Predictions into the future are ballsy. It's stupid imo.

Do it, don't promise it.

[indigo coral]

Elon musk has a LONG track record of overpromising and under delivering

[dense shard]

Tenth, and probably last for now, Tesla cars are just the most fun to drive.

[indigo coral]

Take his estimations, cut them in half, and you're usually right in line with reality

[dense shard]

So are Miatas.

Mazda's market position is dire.

Fun =/= profitable, good, viable

[indigo coral]

Is mazda really in that much trouble?

I see a ton of their cars

like

everywhere

[dense shard]

They've had 5 years to capitalize on the crossover boom.

[indigo coral]

CX3,5,7 aren't crossovers?

[dense shard]

Despite that, the CX-5 barely outsells the Model 3.

CX3 isn't popular.

[indigo coral]

CX9 is probably midsize

[dense shard]

CX-9 isn't popular... or very good.

[indigo coral]

it looks fat

from the back

[dense shard]

The Mazda 6 is outdated and not that good anymore.

The 3 is just worse.

[indigo coral]

fair enough

[dense shard]

oh

[indigo coral]

they sure seem to sell a LOT of them though

[dense shard]

And the Miata.

Not in the US.

[indigo coral]

I see tons of Mazdas.. new ones...

like quite a lot

[dense shard]

ngl

I've seen more new Teslas than new Mazdas.

[indigo coral]

then again my little corner of the US isn't really representative of the midwest & shit

so

[dense shard]

Not sure why, but Birmingham is a nexus for Teslas.

[indigo coral]

I also have seen more Lamborghinis in my town than Tesla Roadsters

...

So

[dense shard]

Tesla Roadsters were novelties.

To prove Tesla is a real automaker, we swear.

[indigo coral]

an aventador sv is like 500k

iirc

[dense shard]

Interesting thread of tweets.

But I don't see how anything was torn to shreds.

[indigo coral]

idk I see way too many exotics in my area

and I dont even live in a huge city

but like

we've seen Ford GT, McLaren 720s, many Lamborghinis and Ferraris, GT-Line porsches, all sorts of stuff

which you'd think would be limited to the big cities (la, miami, etc)

(Even saw a LaFerrari once)

Its just flat out weird.

and yes, I'm 6 years old and still point out exotics.

[dense shard]

aren't we all?

[indigo coral]

fair enough

lol

we chased down an R63 to get a picture once

damn cool car

(again, my weird taste in cars)

[fathom socket]

Great idea

How would they make it strong enough to handle it's 1500 horse power engines torque

Like the engine will break the car structure

[wheat hatch]

@fathom socket I mean, it's Mr. B is for Build.
Considering his other projects, he will figure something out.

And considering there are Huracán's with 3000+ WHP, pretty sure the structure is quite solid.

.stuck_out_tongue.

[unreal terrace]

Oof the dual motor Tesla is one fast boi

[stoic ledge]

pogey Volvo XC40 P8, electrified XC40 with 408hp pogey

https://www.whatcar.com/news/2020-volvo-xc40-p8-recharge-revealed-price-specs-and-release-date/n20338

€59.900, ± the same as the Model 3 LR and Polestar 2, ± same specs pogey

[stoic ledge]

Dutch price R-Design (just like the P8) T5 (250ph): €59.990
Dutch price R-Design T5 Twin Engine (182hp + 82hp = 262hp): €50.495

P8 pricing is not that bad (:

[wheat hatch]

.pogey.

[fossil imp]

[dense shard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu5rmC90W30

I forgot. Mercedes still does V12s.

Century has better styling.

Not a V12 anymore though.

[civic spoke]

I'd take the Toyota.

[fair bronze]

Those kind of cars are mostly meant to be enjoyed in the back, while I'd rather drive myself

[dense shard]

Take your pick.

[fair bronze]

The Toyota has that weird seat cloth, right?

[civic spoke]

Then I guess BMW 7 series?

[dense shard]

I wouldn't call that weird.

Cloth is quiet.

And more comfortable.

[fair bronze]

No I mean not just standard cloth

I forgot what it was called

[dense shard]

Used to be wool.

[fair bronze]

No hate towards cloth in any way

Ah yes, wool

[dense shard]

Okay, had to check.

It is still wool.

so fancy

[fair bronze]

My point exactly

Don't assume I'm hating :)

[dense shard]

Never accused you of hating.

Hating is easy enough to tell apart from calling something weird.

Like me hating on Elon Musk.

But that is a story for another time.

[stoic ledge]

^ joy

Those Maybach rims are ugly af btw

[dense shard]

They're the best part of the car.

I'm not a fan of current Mercedes design language.

Hopefully the next generation will get back to being nice.

Unlike the last... 3 generations? 🤔

Much as I love conventional design, I find Mercedes to be just... bland. Especially compared to the current 7 series and A8.

[stoic ledge]

The A8 is bland too pogey

[dense shard]

It has lines.

Which is more than the doughy shape of Mercedes can attest to.

Somehow it works better with Mazda.

That or I'll also find those cars bland in a year.

[eager kite]

@dense shard if you read what the guy said, he gave the 400k number based on q3 production rates and extrapolating them.
Global in that it's in north america, europe, asia, australia, where people are buying Teslas, and they're continuing to expand.
What's arguable about the ASIC computer?
#8 didn't reference the Australia battery at all...
Number 9 is saying that they are going to massively expand their battery production and likely become one of the largest producers relatively soon. Even if they are below the quoted numbers they will still be pumping out a lot of cars and a lot of batteries in 4 years.

[dense shard]

I'm not arguing about the computer.

I'm arguing that Tesla will be able to be fully self driving.

[eager kite]

And I agree that it rips apart the teslaq (short seller) position on tesla because it means Tesla stock is going to continue to grow, meaning shorts are going to lose more and more money

[dense shard]

Fully self driving means under any and all conditions regardless of context.

Tesla shares fell nearly 6% in after market trading on the news.

Tesla shares fall on occasion which is all you need for short sellers.

[eager kite]

Ok, level 5 yea will be difficult to reach and will probably take decades

But L4 is pretty close

[dense shard]

And the 400k number assumes the that Q4 of Tesla will see 160k cars being produced.

60k more than Q3.

Global also includes South America and Africa.

[eager kite]

No, it's saying that q3 they made almost 100k cars

[dense shard]

Tesla doesn't seem to have a presence there.

[eager kite]

So annualized that's 400k

[dense shard]

I've added the numbers.

Tesla has produced about 260k cars so far this year.

[eager kite]

Yes cause very few people in 3rd world countries can afford a tesla

[dense shard]

Assuming the 99000 number holds up for Q3.

[eager kite]

Or a normal car

[dense shard]

Global means the world.

Not most markets.

[eager kite]

It's global where there are EVs

[dense shard]

That's disingenuous.

[eager kite]

No

[dense shard]

And moving the goalposts.

yes

It is.

[eager kite]

Not at all

[dense shard]

You don't get to claim you are global when you are known on 5 of the 7 continents.

Mr. Worldwide isn't.

And pumping anything out in 4 years is still up in the air considering Tesla spent the last 3 years with only months of cash on hand.

At this point no one knows if GM and Ford will be around in 4 years.

[eager kite]

And they have years of cash on hand rn

[dense shard]

uhuh

[eager kite]

Relating to the entire world

[dense shard]

Yes, thanks for proving my point.

Entire world.

That does mean everything.

Not almost.

[eager kite]

Yep, so the use works

[dense shard]

not really

[eager kite]

Yep

[dense shard]

Involving the entire world means involving Africa and South America.

[eager kite]

Nope

[dense shard]

Yep

involving the ENTIRE world

[eager kite]

Relating to entire world doesn't require those continents

[dense shard]

ENTIRE world.

You know why World War II was a global war?

Because it included all the continents.

[eager kite]

Doesn't require those continents

[dense shard]

It does.

[eager kite]

No it didn't lol

[dense shard]

As much as you want to ignore Africa and South America.

They are part of the global economy.

[eager kite]

There weren't any conflicts in south america

[dense shard]

And I doubt any South Africans here would take kindly to being excluded from the "entire world."

Uhhh...

[eager kite]

How is it global

[dense shard]

There were.

[stoic ledge]

Global; relating or involving the entire world

5 out of 7 continents != Entire world

[eager kite]

You're missing a continent

[dense shard]

Which one?

[eager kite]

SA

[dense shard]

nope

Not at all.

[eager kite]

Yep

[dense shard]

nope

[eager kite]

Where

[dense shard]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Guiana

Oh look. A French Colony that was involved.

oh wait... you want more?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Admiral_Graf_Spee

Involved in a pretty big fiasco in Uruguay in the start of the war.

Falklands were a British Colony, and were involved.

South America was involved.

If we want to be super pedantic.

[eager kite]

Yep never a war there

[dense shard]

Antarctica was also involved to a limited extent.

What

South America had war there.

[eager kite]

French colont never fought

[dense shard]

don't be stupid.

They fought.

[eager kite]

Literally just sat there

[dense shard]

Libya?

It just sat there?

[eager kite]

Then later said that they wanted to be independent

[dense shard]

Not relevant.

[eager kite]

And had a movement for it

[dense shard]

Before 1945 they were colonies under the rule of France.

[eager kite]

Lmao that's the only thing wikipedia talks about it

[dense shard]

Yes, and?

When the empires went to war, they all went to war.

[eager kite]

so it didn't fight in the war

[dense shard]

The colonies sent thousands if not millions of troops to the frontlines.

You know why Britain was able to hold the Germans at bay in Africa?

[eager kite]

Citation needed that south america got involved

[dense shard]

Cause they drew heavily on their colonial armies in India and the middle east.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Admiral_Graf_Spee

Boom. here

[eager kite]

Cause I know a lot of them stayed neutral

[dense shard]

A lot, but not all.

"During World War II and the fall of France to German forces, Félix Éboué was one of the first to support General Charles de Gaulle of Free France, as early as June 18, 1940. Guiana officially rallied Free France in 1943. It abandoned its status as a colony and once again became a French department in 1946."

If you want citations out of a book. I'll need a month and 100 dollars.

[eager kite]

Yea, that's a protest movement

[dense shard]

uhuh

[eager kite]

Not joining the war

[dense shard]

Much like the Polish underground army was a protest.

[eager kite]

Civil uprising

Not military conflict

[dense shard]

The Polish Underground was an uprising?

[eager kite]

Or civil resistance

[dense shard]

The Polish Underground was a civil resistance?

[eager kite]

Primarily made of civilians

So

Yea

[dense shard]

...

I can't tell if you are trolling.

[eager kite]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Underground_State

[dense shard]

The Polish Underground was formed after German and the Soviet Union invaded.

[tropic silo]

WhatTheFuckDidYouJustSay emote time 3

[wheat hatch]

Careful, might get banned @tropic silo

[dense shard]

The Government in Exile.

[tropic silo]

Fuck

[wheat hatch]

.puggers.

[eager kite]

Ok, this is really far from what we were originally talking about

[dense shard]

Was the legitimate government of Poland.

You decided to dismiss my country's efforts against Germany and Russia.

It was not a civil resistance.

[wheat hatch]

All this for Tesla, huh.

[dense shard]

It was a war. Where losing meant total destruction.

[eager kite]

If you don't like the use of the term global to describe Tesla's charging infrastructure, that's fine

[tropic silo]

HAHAHA

[dense shard]

Because it's fucking wrong.

[tropic silo]

Is this all about Tesla?

[wheat hatch]

Of course it is.

[eager kite]

Kind of semantical but if you wanna be stuck up about it that's ok

[dense shard]

...

It isn't.

[tropic silo]

@eager kite boi stop sucking Tesla's dick. It isn't gonna make you a better person nor make Tesla a better brand

[dense shard]

I'm just not sure why you aren't willing to accept that pro Tesla tweets are full of it.

[eager kite]

@tropic silo nou

[wheat hatch]

Everyone knows Tesla is never wrong.
Everyone knows Tesla is one of the worlds wonders.
Elon Musk is god.
At least to someone in here.

.KEK.

[dense shard]

Hopefully Elon Musk ends up paying millions to that one British diver.

Maybe he'll learn he isn't a god.

And actions have consequences.

[eager kite]

But yea, the 400k number is an annualized rate based on q3 production

[dense shard]

uhuh

I'll believe it when I see it.

And I haven't seen it ever with Tesla.

They over promise, under deliver.

[stoic ledge]

Ok so if I get straight F's the entire year, but an A+ in Q3, my entire years performance is A+?

[dense shard]

Well MK.

On a global scale.

Yes.

You get all As.

[stoic ledge]

Good to know

[tropic silo]

Arial, pls stop talking. You are pretty annoying. I'm sure multiple people agree

[eager kite]

If tesla over promises and underdelivers I bet you're really upset about the taycan

[dense shard]

I couldn't care less.

[eager kite]

Oh

[dense shard]

Piech didn't go around calling heroes pedophiles.

Porsche isn't the subject here.

Telsa is.

[eager kite]

So when tesla "over promises and under delivers" it's bad but when porsche does it's fine

Got it

[dense shard]

Nice strawman.

But no.

[eager kite]

So you're upset about the taycan then yes?

They promised a better car

[dense shard]

What about the Taycan should upset me?

Where did they promise a better car?

source me

[eager kite]

Mission E

[wheat hatch]

I mean, Taycan is a different thing.

[dense shard]

Well yes.

Concepts and finished products tend to differ.

[eager kite]

No, taycan is the production of the mission e

[dense shard]

Yes, the Mission E is a concept.

It's an idea... a possible future.

[stoic ledge]

What did the Taycan not deliver which they promised on forehand?

[eager kite]

They show us mission e and say that they're going to produce an ev like this

[wheat hatch]

As we stated before, Taycan has the price it has because Porsche CAN charge that.
They have history, and has built up a prestige.
Tesla could probably charge similar prices in the future once they have gotten some history.

[dense shard]

They did produce an EV similar to the Mission E.

[eager kite]

But in reality we just get the taycan

[dense shard]

Taycan is a fine car.

[eager kite]

Nowhere near as good as the mission e was claimed to be

[wheat hatch]

I would buy the Taycan, but not for the performance.
I would buy it because it's a PORSCHE.

[dense shard]

And remember how Tesla promised to make 5000 cars a week in 2017?

And how that didn't happen until over a year later?

[wheat hatch]

It's all about branding.

[stoic ledge]

https://topgear.nl/app/uploads/2018/03/porsche-mission-e-productieversie-6.jpg

It looks quite like the Taycan? Concepts are never 1:1 to a production cars

[dense shard]

With everyone on meth and coffee?

[wheat hatch]

@dense shard Please do give me a cup of that blend.

.kek.

[dense shard]

It only works for a month.

[wheat hatch]

Aw man.

[dense shard]

Then you burn out.

[eager kite]

They never promised 5k cars a week in 2017 wtf

[stoic ledge]

Nowhere near as good as the mission e was claimed to be

How is it not as claimed? I'm seriously wondering what item them promised and didn't deliver

[wheat hatch]

.sad_emoji.

[eager kite]

Mission E specs never delivered @stoic ledge

[dense shard]

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-q3-2017-report-pushes-model-3-production-ramp-to-2018/

"Tesla's Model 3 website originally envisioned a Model 3 production capacity of 5,000 vehicles per week by the end of 2017, but the company has pushed that projection back to the first quarter of 2018 while it deals with bottlenecks. Musk, on a shareholder call, estimated this ramp to be complete late in Q1, likely March."

[eager kite]

Also Tesla "concepts" are always basically 1:1 on production

[dense shard]

Try again Arial.

Tesla wanted 5000 a week by the end of 2017.

They failed.

[eager kite]

Not cited

[dense shard]

🤔

[wheat hatch]

LOL

[dense shard]

Arial

Cite where Porsche fails to deliver on their promises.

Humor us.

[stoic ledge]

As far as I can found, Porsche promised 600+hp, 250kW charging, 800V, 0-60 in 3.5s

They delivered on all those, so idk what not

[dense shard]

I'm assuming with consistent panels gaps.

[fossil imp]

tesla versus porsche only gonna be 1 winner there pal

[dense shard]

VW doesn't care about winning.

[fossil imp]

idc what u think either

[dense shard]

They only reason they built the Taycan, E-Tron, and iD cars is because of dieselgate.

Otherwise we'd be looking at another diesel hybrid V16 monstrosity out of Audi.

[eager kite]

@stoic ledge not the specs of mission e

At all

[dense shard]

Source, Arial?

Cause they did promise that.

And they did deliver it... so if you have alternative information... please show us.

[eager kite]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/electrek.co/2018/11/08/porsche-mission-e-prototype-charging-250kw/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/electrek.co/2018/03/01/porsche-mission-e-tesla-performance/amp/

[dense shard]

how about Taycan news?

[eager kite]

Under 3 sec 0-100kph

[dense shard]

Not the concept?

We need news about the production car here.

You need to prove the production car failed to deliver.

[eager kite]

Ok, production car can't charge at 350kw

[dense shard]

citation?

[eager kite]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/electrek.co/2019/07/17/porsche-taycan-250-kw-charging-launch-promised-350-kw/amp/

[dense shard]

hmmmm... how about a website that doesn't have Tesla stock?

[fossil imp]

lol

monte u couldnt possibly be wrong of course

[dense shard]

Good for you Boycie.

I'm happy for you.

[eager kite]

Only turbo S gets better acceleration than mission e

[fossil imp]

but i'd still take the taycan over the shitbox tesla any day of the week

[eager kite]

All other models get worse acceleration

[stoic ledge]

By 2021 at the latest, peak charging power is set to increase from 250 to 350kW, which should – in combination with those latest 800-volt charge points – reduce charging time to a swift 14 minutes.

[wheat hatch]

But 350kW charging is stated to be coming 2021?

[dense shard]

That seems fine.

Tesla promises things in the future.

[eager kite]

Production =/= promises

[dense shard]

If we aren't holding promises against Tesla.

Why should we with Porsche?

[eager kite]

You're harping on that

I'm making you be consistent

[dense shard]

Just applying your logic here.

[eager kite]

I don't have a problem with it

But if you're being consistent you should

[dense shard]

Okay, and your point?

[eager kite]

You aren't being consistent

[dense shard]

Sure I am.

[eager kite]

You either are changing your views

Or you're not being consistent

@wheat hatch your name is fitting

[dense shard]

So what I said earlier... when I said the concept isn't the production... but you implied otherwise...

[wheat hatch]

Thank you, lmao

[eager kite]

Oh, because porsche was promising us that the Mission E would come to production

Obviously not that exact car

[dense shard]

no shit?

[eager kite]

But a car that performed like it

[dense shard]

The Mission E is a concept.

[eager kite]

Everything about the Taycan is worse

[fathom socket]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3mfsH_irAO/

[dense shard]

subjective

[eager kite]

No

[stoic ledge]

Everything?

[eager kite]

Objectively

Worse

Worse charging rates

[dense shard]

uhhh

[eager kite]

Worse range

Worse acceleration

[fathom socket]

also to taycan weighs a lot more than the tesla

[dense shard]

I've heard the Taycan has better handling.