if they were profitable
#cars
eager kite
analysts have no idea what they are talking about like 90% of the time
eager kite
Dude Tesla has over 5 billion in the bank
dense shard
You're talking like a tesla fanboy.
eager kite
they could pay off all their debt tomorrow if they wanted to
eager kite
but they don't want to
eager kite
Yes, for building factories
indigo coral
so no, theyre DEEP in debt
eager kite
If they wanted to be profitable, they wouldn't of taken the loans
dense shard
They've been 5 months from shutting down for the last 2 years...
indigo coral
^
eager kite
they wouldn't have put themselves in debt
indigo coral
at one point they were like 2 weeks from shutdown
eager kite
they are doing it so they can expand even more
dense shard
I get they're trying to grow.
But maybe Elon shouldn't be promising profit in the next quarter every quarter.
eager kite
He literally hasn't
indigo coral
yes he has.
eager kite
Nope
eager kite
Can you show me the quotes from the earnings calls where he says it?
indigo coral
Do you own Tesla shares?
dense shard
dense shard
eager kite
Will probably get some soon though
dense shard
Okay... you want a direct quote from Musk?
“What drives us is our mission to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable, clean energy, but we will never achieve that mission unless we eventually demonstrate that we can be sustainably profitable,” he writes in a company email. “That is a valid and fair criticism of Tesla’s history to date.”
indigo coral
I'm too risk averse to invest in Tesla.
indigo coral
(that being said I own AMD soo....)
eager kite
Eventually demonstrate we can be sustainably profitable
So in other words, show we can be profitable
eager kite
not that they need to stay profitable forever after that...
indigo coral
Why on earth
dense shard
Also just a fyi
indigo coral
would you go profitable
dense shard
Publicly traded companies aim to be profitable.
dense shard
They have to answer to investors.
eager kite
Because they don't want or need to stay profitable
dense shard
Elon promised the Model 3 would hit full production in 2017. It didn't.
He promised Tesla would eventually become profitable.
eager kite
When you're building out a massive factory in China, that takes a lot of money
indigo coral
the Model 3 is a great car but it failed at it's goal
eager kite
it's very hard to still report a profit while dumping hundreds of millions in CAPEX
indigo coral
It failed to make Tesla profitable, it failed to be popular and get lots of people to buy it, it failed to hit the 35k price point, and it failed to ever hit full production
I love the car but its not a success
eager kite
They were profitable in Q3 and Q4 of last year...
dense shard
No... I think they finally hit full production this year.
eager kite
so, no, it did make them profitable
dense shard
It took em... years.
indigo coral
They said 10k
dense shard
2 quarters.
indigo coral
in 2018
dense shard
Does not make for a profitable company.
dense shard
I'm sure AMC turned a profit once in the 70.
indigo coral
I think they crested 7?
dense shard
Where they promising 10? Damn.
indigo coral
they were saying 5k initially then ramping to 10
as far as I know they never hit 10
dense shard
I know they fueled the push to 6 with meth, cocaine, and 4loko.
eager kite
in 2017*
dense shard
And probably some very inspiring music.
eager kite
And the reason they aren't hitting 10K is because GA3 kinda failed
dense shard
But Eye of the Tiger on loop has a limited effect.
indigo coral
the Model 3 in general failed at it's goal
dense shard
They didn't hit 10k because they physically can't.
eager kite
So right now GA4 is the one producing the majority of the cars they are producing
and eventually they are going to transition GA3 over to the GA4 design, but that takes money and time which are the 2 things they are diverting to China right now to make Gigafactory 3
dense shard
Because China might give them just enough profit to see the Tesla truck.
eager kite
oh China is gonna give them hella profit
dense shard
uhuh
indigo coral
Do you think the Roadster is ever gonna show up? I kinda doubt it
indigo coral
they cant sink billions of dollars into a useless and low volume car
dense shard
Will it be a swansong... why not.
indigo coral
Like don't get me wrong I really like Tesla cars but wow... the company is VERY mismanaged and is falling apart at the seams
dense shard
yeeeep
eager kite
Lot more expensive to produce a Model 3 in the middle of California than in China...
Labor, shipping, taxes...
eager kite
so gross profits will be even better on China produced 3s
dense shard
Don't blame known factors on failure to perform.
Cause taxes and shipping had nothing to do with failed production figures.
dense shard
Maybe they shouldn't rush?
eager kite
Which was solved when they made the GA4 line
It wasn't about rushing, it was about trying to automate too many tasks
eager kite
Like that literally was the problem
They tried to make a robot which would lay a piece of foam insulation over the battery pack
dense shard
And the tent assembly line with janky solutions wasn't a massively cut corner?
eager kite
But the amount of work that would be needed for that robot would be insane
indigo coral
The paint is awful on Teslas
dense shard
OSHA was called they cut so many corners.
indigo coral
A. W. F. U. L.
Interior is quite nice now tbh, but the paint quality is absolutely dreadful
eager kite
So the primary reason why GA3 failed was due to overautomation
indigo coral
my 20 year old Lexus with the corresponding dents and dings are overall better paint than a BRAND NEW 100k Tesla
indigo coral
They've improved the panel gaps over the last few months
eager kite
Panel gaps are within industry standards...
dense shard
uhuh
A car at 40 grand should have very tight panel gaps.
Not "within industry standards."
indigo coral
They can improve, but theyre not the dreadful horribleness that people seem to say alot
eager kite
Tell that to every entry luxury car manufacturer
dense shard
If Toyota can do it at 20k... Doing it at 35k should be easy peasy.
uhhh
Toyota sent a benchmark on quality and consistency.
The Germans matched it.
Tesla loves comparing itself to the Germans.
I will compare them in turn.
eager kite
Cause they're better
dense shard
Except they're not.
indigo coral
My RX has less rattles than a Model X i rode in
and the Model X had less than 6k miles on it
dense shard
Audi has rolled out Tier 3 automated driving tech. Tesla is at tier 2.
indigo coral
and my car is at 130k
eager kite
I too love anecdotes
dense shard
"cause they're better"
indigo coral
No car should leave the factory with that many rattles and squeaks and poor paint
dense shard
Okay, give us objective proof Tesla is "better."
eager kite
Tell me, what's the difference between level 2 and 3 autonomous driving? @dense shard
indigo coral
when theyre beat in quality on a car thats TWO DECADES older
dense shard
Hands off operations.
eager kite
nope
dense shard
then what is it?
Level 2 ("hands off"): The automated system takes full control of the vehicle (accelerating, braking, and steering). The driver must monitor the driving and be prepared to intervene immediately at any time if the automated system fails to respond properly. The shorthand "hands off" is not meant to be taken literally. In fact, contact between hand and wheel is often mandatory during SAE 2 driving, to confirm that the driver is ready to intervene.
Level 3 ("eyes off"): The driver can safely turn their attention away from the driving tasks, e.g. the driver can text or watch a movie. The vehicle will handle situations that call for an immediate response, like emergency braking. The driver must still be prepared to intervene within some limited time, specified by the manufacturer, when called upon by the vehicle to do so.
Oh I was off a bit.
Level 3 is eyes off.
indigo coral
I don't think that Audi is full L3 on production cars
dense shard
This is SAE btw.
eager kite
Which is true of Teslas right now
indigo coral
but certainly between L2 and L3
eager kite
yea really
indigo coral
kinda 2.5
dense shard
prove it.
indigo coral
imo
dense shard
2.5 is 2.
dense shard
No anecdotes.
dense shard
People have died.
indigo coral
that's a terrible way ti prove that
dense shard
"Tesla vehicles are not considered fully autonomous, or Level 4, a designation by SAE that means the car can handle all aspects of driving in certain conditions without human intervention. Instead, Tesla vehicles are “Level 2,” a more advanced driver assistance system than most other vehicles on the road today."
eager kite
from falling asleep with cheat devices
indigo coral
Autopilot works 95% of the time but that 5 percent is when you're utterly f*cked
dense shard
Audi's new A8 is available with Level 3 in Europe.
eager kite
What are those 5% of cases?
indigo coral
Audi isn't full L3.
Not safe enough to look away at your phone or whatever.
The SAE rating system is not very granular
Tesla isn't L3 either
dense shard
indigo coral
Ok. at low speed traffic jams sure.
dense shard
Once again. You don't need to BS the standards.
eager kite
Last time I checked, Audis don't have enhanced summon, auto lane changing and maneuvering on the highway, on ramp to off ramp autopilot capabilities
dense shard
Last I checked, SAE is an industry standard. Once applied to all automakers.
Let's skip all subjective... and stick to what the industry follows.
Just as with horsepower, torque, and whatever metrics we use.
Or in the case of the US... towing capacities.
indigo coral
duckpower
eager kite
Enhanced summon is still something that no one else has
indigo coral
but it doesn't work properly
eager kite
and auto lane change is still something that no one else has
indigo coral
and is incredibly slow
dense shard
So a half assed feature is better than none.
dense shard
It's still slow on an absolute scale.
eager kite
and one which isn't on a private track with 0 people within half a mile of it
dense shard
Well safe testing is nice.
eager kite
sure
eager kite
like .001% but yea
dense shard
Hands off, not attention off.
indigo coral
^
dense shard
Audis is supposedly to be eyes off as well.
eager kite
x to doubt
dense shard
Level 4 is where stuff gets fun.
indigo coral
in traffic maybe. I wouldn't take my eyes off at high speed
I totally believe L3 in slow to moderate traffic
indigo coral
(you also arent supposed to speed, modify your car, have your cellphone turned on while you're driving, etc.)
dense shard
I'm pretty sure Tesla has clarified that after they distracted Elon Musk off twitter.
... uh yeah
eager kite
I don't think audi is saying you should take your eyes off the road either
dense shard
You AREN'T supposed to speed.
you aren't supposed be distracted.
What point are you making, Falcon?
indigo coral
I'm saying people are always going to do shit theyre not supposed to and thus systems should be overbuilt to an extent and derated to help prevent them getting dead
dense shard
Or.
We could train drivers to git gud.
Over reliance on the systems will cause issues when they fail.
indigo coral
very true
and most companies are raising insurance rates
with the more safety tech and stuff
cause people pay less attention
dense shard
And modern cars are dramatically more expensive to repair.
Cause on the road, there are fewer accidents than 20 years ago.
indigo coral
but theyre statistically more severe
dense shard
News to me.
indigo coral
from what I understand, less fatalities and stuff but more severe damage
which is overall good
partly cause everyone drives so DAMN FAST now days
eager kite
even less in an autonomous car
indigo coral
teslas aren't autonomous
not even close
won't be autonomous for at least 10 years
probably more like 25
eager kite
ok, sorry I won't use that if it offends you, autopilot equipped car
indigo coral
autopilot isn't a misnomer but autonomous is
eager kite
can't take a joke alright
dense shard
What's the punchline again?
eager kite
^proving my point
dense shard
Sorry, it's just that jokes are usually funny.
Ah, here we go. We could just crack down on drunk driving.
Zero tolerance actually works wonders.
indigo coral
i hope you don't mean the zero tolerance rules for schools and stuff
those are just completely and utterly asinine
dense shard
I mean that if you get caught drunk driving. There are actual punishments involved.
dense shard
Skip the slap on the wrist.
eager kite
If you think that autonomous driving is 10-25 years away, you are very out of touch with the tech industry
indigo coral
I'm talking where you get your ass beat by a bully at school and YOU get punished
dense shard
They do have a BAC minimum. .03, but the cops can just call it good enough if they think you're under the effects.
eager kite
speaking of safety, https://www.tesla.com/blog/model-3-earns-2019-iihs-top-safety-pick-award
dense shard
Should be
indigo coral
from what I understand its a very safe car except the base models headlights kinda suck
the LED ones are good though.
dense shard
NHTSA has not yet rated the Stinger.
indigo coral
At the rate they're depreciating, i'll be able to get one pretty damn soon
eager kite
Man IIHS is pretty liberal on the amount of these top safety pick+ awards they give out
indigo coral
1yr old and half off lul.
dense shard
There are a lot of safe cars out there.
Many have risen to the challenge.
Tesla isn't the only car at the top.
indigo coral
It's not even some unreliable shitty car - it's got a 10yr warranty, is reliable, good looking and safe and powerful, but its not an SUV so its not being bought and is depreciating like crazy
eager kite
On the top for NHTSA testing
Actually, all 3 of Tesla's cars are at the top of NHTSA's testing
indigo coral
a 4 year old, 15k car sounds pretty damn good for me
indigo coral
with 365hp and AWD
eager kite
Top safety pick, not top safety pick + 😉
dense shard
My car misses out due to headlights.
In everything else it's just as good. 😜
And I save time refueling it.
indigo coral
the Stinger is a + with the right options
eager kite
too bad toyota doesn't release the probability of injury data that NHTSA produces in their tests
indigo coral
just a top safety pick without some optoins
eager kite
we could actually know what the difference is between cars
dense shard
But we won't so I'll just assume it's hella safe.
eager kite
Not as safe as Teslas
eager kite
According to NHTSA it's the case
dense shard
true true
eager kite
eager kite
with 0 maintenance?
indigo coral
im at 20 years and counting! 🙂
eager kite
Yea, how many miles you at @indigo coral
indigo coral
130k
eager kite
lol
dense shard
After that... oil, a few other fluids.
indigo coral
really damn high lol
eager kite
So tesla batteries are lasting literally hundreds of thousands of miles
on Model S and Xs
the model 3 has an even better battery pack..
so............
dense shard
So are Toyota Corollas.
dense shard
Sooo......
dense shard
Most sold nameplate of all time.
indigo coral
with the bubbles and stuff
eager kite
How much will you have to pay in maintenance for that toyota corolla?
over 300k miles
dense shard
Probably not much.
indigo coral
Not as much as a new battery pack.
eager kite
yea, only the price of the car likely
dense shard
hmmm... nah
eager kite
yea...
dense shard
nah
eager kite
especially if you're doing it at toyota dealerships
dense shard
And if I'm not?
indigo coral
My RX has had nothing but scheduled/wear item maitnence over 20 years.
eager kite
only way it's cheap is if you're doing it yourself
which most people don't do
because they don't know shit about cars
dense shard
Oil changes over the 300k miles will be 1500 dollars.
Timing chain... maybe once?
Call it 3000 dollars.
4500 dollars.
indigo coral
since I got the car I had one check engine light, which was a fluke and has never come back since I cleared it.
dense shard
uhhh... I ain't seeing a 'rolla out of 4500 dollars.
Fine let's toss in another 3000 dollars for other fluid changes.
And round it up.
eager kite
$50 per oil change, even if you stretch your oil changes out to every 5k miles that's 3K right there
dense shard
uhhh no
indigo coral
wym stretch it out
dense shard
My car is 10k intervals.
indigo coral
my car is 5k
eager kite
Average car is 5k miles
indigo coral
nyoom
I have 300 miles till its time for a new change on mine
4700 miles since the last one! 🙂
(I use TripB for that lol)
indigo coral
TripA for every fill up and calculating fuel economy, and TripB for oil changes.
dense shard
For now I'm just rolling with the integrated trip computer.
It's pretty good so far.
indigo coral
my screen shows the average overall mpg but not the "since last fillup" one
oh and it shows the instant fuel economy
indigo coral
I actually got 24mpg on one tank!!
dense shard
Yeah, that's pretty good.
eager kite
indigo coral
Usually I get 19ish with just daily driving.
eager kite
That's a lotta problems
indigo coral
those websites are sooo unreliable lmao
only people who have problems are gonna show up
indigo coral
i bet you get like 40mpg yeah?
indigo coral
I took the car on about a 300 mile trip last weekend and was very impressed at the passing power (bearing in mind the age and type of car) to go from 70 -> 80
dense shard
Keep in mind the 40mpg figures is from the automatic.
indigo coral
kinda slow to get up and go from a stop but its not gutless at speed which is quite nice
hardly took any throttle input to jump right up to 80 plus
(highest I've taken it is 85 cause I'm chicken)
dense shard
I haven't taken my car that much over the limit.
indigo coral
tbh it was more of an accident cause the road went down hill
and I was watching the other cars not the speedo lol
so weee downhill we go
might I add the fuel economy goes to shit a that speed
averaged only 20mpg with 160 miles of constant highway
dense shard
"According to the magazine's annual vehicle reliability survey, owners of more than 500 Tesla Model 3s have reported "a relatively high number of reliability complaints." "
eager kite
They had a handful of reports from the 500 owners
(also a bunch of these people had very early production models)
dense shard
okay, and?
eager kite
so the problems listed here are solved...
dense shard
I'm sure a lot of the cars in the stuff you linked were likely tied to bad owners, or early models.
eager kite
Like the back windshield breaking was only a problem on a small amount of model 3s first produced
dense shard
"Engine Mount on Passenger Side Can Wear With High Mileage on Toyota Corolla"
eager kite
which was fixed very early
dense shard
Ah yes... engine mounts wearing out in high mileage situations.
Tragic really.
A consumable is consumed in use.
eager kite
but consumer reports cited this as a large reason as to why they removed it
dense shard
I recall they removed it because of super inconsistent braking lengths.
And then gave it back after Tesla did an OTA update.
Nice to know you are a beta tester for the car's brakes.
eager kite
Interestingly, despite such reliability woes, Tesla drivers give the brand top marks in CR's annual owner satisfaction survey. Says Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at Consumer Reports, "When a vehicle has an enthusiastic following, like with Tesla, owners may overlook some issues."
remote ridge
nice
eager kite
They weren't having inconsistent breaking
eager kite
it was just longer than what consumer reports thought was a good value
it was 155 feet of stopping distance
eager kite
which Tesla got down to 130, through an over the air software update
dense shard
It was a wild range of distances.
stoic ledge
Unlike other companies, Tesla doesn't test their cars, they let the customers test it for them
dense shard
The Model 3 required 152 feet, which CR said was "far worse than any contemporary car we've tested."
Also 152 feet from 60 is horrific.
eager kite
This isn't the first time CR has pulled the Model 3's Recommended tag. In May 2018, the magazine cited inconsistent braking performance as the main culprit behind the demotion, leading Tesla to issue an over-the-air update to fix the problem. CR retested an updated Model 3 and saw stopping distances drop from 152 feet to 130 feet, which was good enough to reapply a Recommended rating.
dense shard
For reference a Honda Civic from 20 years ago did it in about 110.
42 feet.
That's what... a school bus?
eager kite
The new shorter distance is typical for a compact luxury car and matches the 133 feet that Tesla claims its own testing found, using the same tires as those on our Model 3.
dense shard
It was bad enough to have Elon Musk admit there was an issue.
eager kite
from Consumer reports directly
dense shard
Yeah, it took Tesla an OTA update and a CR report to fix an issue.
eager kite
eager kite
Not really a large issue for the average owner though
dense shard
Until they need that extra 20 feet in an emergency.
eager kite
no one needed it
dense shard
There's a good chance someone wrecked their Tesla in that time frame.
eager kite
if someone was complaining about not enough stopping power in that time, and it lead to a crash, you bet your ass that would have ended up on CNBC
dense shard
Maybe the owner didn't know any better.
eager kite
They do news stories on shit that Elon tweets, they 100% would pick up a story about Teslas not being able to brake in time
dense shard
And like a good Tesla owner assumed it was just a driver issue.
dense shard
How so?
eager kite
cause it can be said about anything
dense shard
You linked a complaints sight in an effort to make my new 'rolla look bad.
Looking at those issues you linked.
They are tied to cars from the 90s.
eager kite
And it won't happen to current cars?
dense shard
So not exactly a good link, now was it.
Who knows.
I know for a fact my car won't suffer from carbon build up on the intake ports.
And warped brake rotors should be a non-issue as well.
eager kite
I know for a fact that tesla won't get either of those issues
or will get any engine related issues
dense shard
uhhh... Weren't early examples of the Model S...
Didn't those get their engines replaced at extremely high rates.
Sorry, motors.
stoic ledge
Yes
dense shard
hmmmmm
stoic ledge
eager kite
I honestly don't know off-hand
stoic ledge
Yes, they often had engine failures, with many of them having to get their engines replaced
eager kite
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1093713_tesla-model-s-drive-unit-replacements-how-big-a-problem
dense shard
Also since we're tossing anecdotes out there.
My car's battery going bad won't make international news.
eager kite
Only a handful of owners saying that they had failures
and it was all covered under warranty
dense shard
A lot of the motors were replaced before they died.
Most I believe.
Technically they still worked.
But an engine with rod knock technically works.
So... yeah. Take what you will from that.
stoic ledge
and it was all covered under warranty
Oh ok, so if many gas powered cars blow up their engine, but it's all covered under warranty, it's reliable?
eager kite
From what I'm reading it was more about a noise they were making
and that there's no evidence the noise leads to or is a symptom of a failure
dense shard
Tesla could have said, "working as intended."
dense shard
No, just a shit special company.
If they cared, it wouldn't take 5 months to fix a dented body panel.
And Rich Rebuilds wouldn't have a channel.
eager kite
nice goalpost shift
dense shard
How did I shift the goal post?
eager kite
we were talking about motor replacement
stoic ledge
> they care about customer satisfaction
Thanks for that, it's good to start the day with a laugh
eager kite
and now you're trying to bring up body panel service
dense shard
Ah, so we're hyper focused on one issue only.
Well if we're only looking at motor replacements.
eager kite
I'd just like to finish one topic before trying to shift it to another
dense shard
Toyota never had early anything require 100% motor replacements due to engine noises.
eager kite
And neither does Tesla
eager kite
Literally no
dense shard
We just talked about how Tesla replaced motors out of early Model Ses.
eager kite
I'm looking at Tesla forums right now
eager kite
and there are people with 200k mile model S' that have never had motor replacements
eager kite
you said 100% replacement rate
dense shard
one sec
eager kite
that would entail 100% of cars would it not?
eager kite
unless you were saying that 100% of cars that had replacements had replacements...
Ok, I don't know where you're getting that
unless it's from.. anecdotes....
dense shard
Guess how many 2019 'rollas needed a new engine.
eager kite
probably more than 200
eager kite
x to doubt that 0 had any problems requiring replacement of parts
eager kite
yea, it's probably way higher
dense shard
yeah, nah
eager kite
and you know, they design their stuff to fail at intervals so they get your money from service
dense shard
Like Tesla.
eager kite
?
dense shard
Oh please.
"they build cars that fail just because"
That's honestly silly.
Ford did that.
And got reamed in the 70s.
eager kite
I mean it's definitely true of most car manufacturers
dense shard
No one builds cars that fail on purpose. Cars that fail on purpose don't get return buyers.
remote ridge
apple is still doing it but with phones
remote ridge
they get pelnty of buyers
dense shard
Cause you are about to blow open a huge conspiracy.
eager kite
Most companies do it with their products
remote ridge
^
dense shard
no
eager kite
this isn't a conspiracy
dense shard
Apple does.
eager kite
this is a known thing
remote ridge
most tech companies do
eager kite
apple, samsung, ford, chevy, vw, fuck even nike does this
eager kite
ok, all their products require service around the same time
dense shard
yes
eager kite
or have problems around the same time
eager kite
yea im not talking about oil changes
dense shard
Rubbers and certain compounds start breaking down after x amount of time.
People ignore things. And consumables go away after a point.
eager kite
I'm talking about ignition coils failing, exhaust manifolds wearing through, etc
dense shard
Yes, they're all made from the same material.
Steel.
After a few years of Northern winters... things start failing.
It's called rust.
eager kite
yep, and you could design your products to fail at a later date
but there's no point for them to do so
because they get less money that way
dense shard
Well yes. I'm certain even Tesla has designed things to a cost.
eager kite
sure, but their products don't have these regular problems in them
dense shard
Everyone has to balance profit, performance, and longevity.
eager kite
Their new powertrains should last ~1 million miles
dense shard
That's not the same as "they make it go bad after x amount of time."
With proper upkeep a modern car can last a hellishly long time.
eager kite
and they just filed a patent for a battery that has been tested to last a million miles of cycle testing
dense shard
Of course.
Things will go bad over time. That's a given.
But no one designs them to fail.
Rather things are designed to live as long as they can.
remote ridge
honestly filing a patent in my oppinion is a bad idea for some things
eager kite
They design their components to last on average an amount of time
dense shard
Easier to design a long lived object than to design one that fails at a set point.
eager kite
And then when they fail, they get your money to work on it
remote ridge
because if you dont want someone to use your secrets, then dont make it public how it works
dense shard
Yes, and Tesla gets money from you if anything ever fails.
eager kite
Lol not really
eager kite
Tesla has super long warranty periods on their cars
dense shard
I heard Tesla also offers inhouse services like Toyota.
le gasp
So does Hyundai and VW.
eager kite
what are their warranty periods?
eager kite
no like could you find on their site that?
eager kite
well their website will describe the details of their warranty
eager kite
like a 10 year warranty that only covers your brakes isn't the same as a 10 year warranty that covers everything in the car
dense shard
Ranging from powertrain to body/rust.
Car companies don't hide their warranties. They have enough issues with warranties as it stands.
"Tesla’s New Vehicle Limited Warranty includes a 4-year/50,000-mile warranty for comprehensive coverage, and an 8-year/unlimited mile Battery and Drive Unit limited warranty. Both warranties are designed to cover and repair or replace any defects in materials or workmanship of any parts that may fail during the warranty coverage period."
eager kite
Yea so pretty similar
dense shard
And VW has nixed their extended warranty.
meaning I will never touch their products.
eager kite
I'm not going to touch VW for many reasons
dense shard
Mitsubishi is a 10 year/100k warranty.
eager kite
comprehensive or limited warranty?
eager kite
ok, so it isn't a comprehensive 10 year warranty
dense shard
Tesla's warranty is also limited.
eager kite
yea ik
dense shard
So not exactly super long.
Perfectly average matching the other high boys of the arena.
And dramatically higher than the Japanese.
eager kite
yep
So with Tesla anything dealing with the battery back or motor controllers or the motors themselves are under warranty for 8 years
Which are like the most expensive parts of the car
And the current batteries should last between 300k and 500k miles, and current powertrains should last around 1 million miles.
will take a while to reach those distances until the cars are fully autonomous
night current
I don't think Tesla ever failed their goal.
The point of the model 3 was to be a more affordable, while providing the many benefits of an electric car.
You save nearly $5k every year by switching to electricity, if you average the normal amount of miles.
So even if it does cost around $40k, you easily save $5k after a year.
Ngl, I understand the price point that Tesla is coming from also. It's one of the longest distance electric vehicles, has one of the highest safety ratings, and has a bunch of fancy tech, including full self driving capabilities in the future.
stoic ledge
viral matrix
wheat hatch
.puggers.
stoic ledge
puggers
night current
fossil imp
slidey 
wheat hatch
.pog.
tropic silo
puggers emote
jagged coyote
nice recovery, but i'm assuming he wont be recovering those pants
fathom socket
I can’t even tell what car that is, poor graphics and it’s so slidey
tropic silo
That's what a gif is @fathom socket... A poor quality animation of pictures stuck together to save memory.
jagged coyote
looks like a porsche to me
fathom socket
I know what a gif is, I’m just trying to figure out what car it is
It seems like a porsche, but I’m not sure and it’s bothering me
stoic ledge
I look at it frame by frame, but I can't distinguish it either
I thought it was a Porsche too, but it looks like it has a longer passenger compartment
Or it's a Porsche 993 Turbo, could be
Quite sure it's a 993 Turbo
fathom socket
Those tail lights are definitely from the 993 turbo
stoic ledge
eager kite
Twitter
eager kite
7:47
indigo coral
and never will be
its a gutted race track car
not a production, daily driveable car
eager kite
The taycan that went around the track at Nurburgring was also a prototype
So they might be able to make the production version a little better
I mean if anything this track Model S is likely heavier than what the production version will be
indigo coral
???/
wheat hatch
But it wasn't gutted
eager kite
Roll cages aren't light
indigo coral
neither are interiors
wheat hatch
However, I'm not surprised if they break the record
Because in the end of the Tesla is still lighter than the Taycan
eager kite
AND other track safety systems
wheat hatch
I'm even surprised the Taycan was that heavy to begin with
that's definitely like every other Model S
wheat hatch
Doesn't necessarily mean it would be heavier with a third motor
Could be a lighter motor as well, but just as efficient
Who knows
eager kite
This is supposed to be their new plaid powertrain that their next gen roadster will have
wheat hatch
I'm more interested in those new rims the car has
vital glen
@stoic ledge This chat is really into electrical vehicles and their inner workings
eager kite
It's gonna have some thicc motors
wheat hatch
Let's hope not
Would love to see a lightweight and efficient EV
vital glen
lightweight and ev don't mix
eager kite
That's what the model 3 is
vital glen
unless you want short range
wheat hatch
Yeah, but I mean for the future
eager kite
Ah gotchu
wheat hatch
Hence me saying, "I would love to see"
eager kite
But yea current model S perf has ~750hp
eager kite
If they added a third motor of equal power it could be hitting 1000hp
stoic ledge
@MK This chat is really into electrical vehicles and their inner workings
X doubt
vital glen
Lmao
eager kite
indigo coral
Tesla will never be a relevant manufacturer.
vital glen
Where do you propose this 3rd motor be placed?
eager kite
This was their mechanical power graph
indigo coral
The cars are not able to be produced profitably
wheat hatch
Me start my own car company?
eager kite
Probably in the back
wheat hatch
Nah I'm good
stoic ledge
@vital glen on the roof, as a turbine
stoic ledge
Yes
eager kite
That's actually a thing one of my professors is researching right now, hybrid jet engines
indigo coral
remember elon's high ass thinks that the roadsters gonna have rockets on it
eager kite
Where the main intake fan at the front of the engine is partially electrically powered
indigo coral
(like the government would ever allow that lol. audi can't even have their sequential tail lights)
eager kite
Could cut fuel usage by a bit
jagged coyote
@indigo coral he said rockets on track only
eager kite
Yea we get it you don't like tesla @indigo coral
vital glen
It's a plan, you just don't see it
jagged coyote
and the model s that's going to run the Nürburgring will have 7 seats in it, not gutted at all
vital glen
@stoic ledge to pee on the white seats
indigo coral
I'm just realistic - not a crazy tesla fanboy
eager kite
I mean he just said he doesnt like it
indigo coral
?
indigo coral
^
eager kite
^
indigo coral
I would buy a Model 3 in a heartbeat if 1. i could afford it and 2. the company was stable
vital glen
I have been in model S and Xs and they are not refined
eager kite
I like the look of many audis, but I don't like audi as a company
indigo coral
I was pointing out how pedantic the US governement is.
vital glen
It's the epitome of engineers getting to fap how they would build an electrical vehicle
eager kite
The S and X need a refresh
indigo coral
That we can agree on.
vital glen
Haven't been in a model 3
eager kite
They are dated in comparison to the 3
vital glen
yet
indigo coral
The interior of the 3 (the premium interior at least) far outstrips the S and the X
vital glen
the s and x feels like 20-30k interiors
eager kite
And the 3 can do 250kw charging
vital glen
It's an afterthought
eager kite
S and X can only do 200
stoic ledge
250kW charging using oil, coal etc puggers
wheat hatch
puggers
indigo coral
It's still more efficient than gas.
eager kite
^
tight cypress
ok teslas here
indigo coral
You're taking a step out of the equation and thus less losses
tight cypress
no intrests
jagged coyote
imagine if all our energies were green...
vital glen
@jagged coyote Then I would be using green colored gasoline?
jagged coyote
btw ppl with powerwalls and solar panels are charging their teslas fully
stoic ledge
You can also use Diesel generators like the Belgium police force puggers
jagged coyote
@vital glen
indigo coral
its belgium what do you expect?
vital glen
I mean depending on where you go the diesel is colored blue
wheat hatch
puggers
vital glen
to make sure they don't confuse them
stoic ledge
Good point falcon, good point
jagged coyote
I don't look at the diesel, but iirc it's yellow
tight cypress
our diesel is yellow
jagged coyote
and gas is just clear
tight cypress
gas is supar yellow here
vital glen
e10/e15
tight cypress
while i use 98 instead of 95
indigo coral
the owners manual says to put Premium Plus in it ... good f*ckng joke
its been running fine for 20 years on standard, it'll keep running that way
jagged coyote
say bye to your fkin wallet
indigo coral
i just get the 87 octane at costco
lol
never had any ill effects from using 87 instead of 93
jagged coyote
lol i'm a student, and i have a diesel, so no expensive fill ups
jagged coyote
even tho i would've wanted to stay in ireland for that 10 cent cheaper diesel
tight cypress
@jagged coyote diesel is cheap
vital glen
@stoic ledge I should win a nobel prize in economic science,
for this statement "stop being poor, ez"
jagged coyote
that pfp is a megane 2
stoic ledge
With the average energy mix in Germany, 0.596 kilograms of CO2 are currently produced for each kilowatt hour of electricity generated.
So that's about 100g/km CO2, not really that much better than a efficient gas powered car these days puggers
jagged coyote
i drive a megane 3, so no biggie
vital glen
Hypermiling I get 29
tight cypress
i drive at the full gas
indigo coral
my car is really weird - I've tried to hypermile on tanks of gas and it hardly does anything
tight cypress
high revs
indigo coral
whether I drive like a bat out of hell or try to drive efficiently, it is always about the same
a tiny bit more but so small i don't even bother
vital glen
That's why
jagged coyote
5L/100km or 56.5mpg
indigo coral
shitty 4 speed yeah
vital glen
I think my last gear is .6:1
tight cypress
thats
indigo coral
one sec lemme find mine
jagged coyote
shiet missed the 100
tight cypress
kinda high
vital glen
What?
tight cypress
yes
eager kite
https://youtu.be/6RhtiPefVzM
@stoic ledge
stoic ledge
Lol a 6:1 gear ratio, nice
vital glen
I would be bouncing off redline barely getting to 20mph
stoic ledge
Yes
vital glen
@eager kite that's a very specific video
indigo coral
Rip.
jagged coyote
1000km/h max speed
stoic ledge
Great for off-road
vital glen
you have to do that for your place of living
stoic ledge
Lol no 6:1 ratio does not get you a high top speed
tight cypress
cant find me
stoic ledge
Lower = faster
eager kite
Yea ik he talks about that in the video @vital glen
indigo coral
1st: 3.938:1
2nd: 2.194:1
3rd: 1.411:1
4th: 1.019:1
tight cypress
i like
tight cypress
how my cars interior is the final facelift
but the outside is pre facelift
me no understandings
eager kite
indigo coral
1st 4.484
2nd 2.872
3rd 1.842
4th 1.414
5th 1.000
6th 0.742
Our Explorer^^
indigo coral
I wish I had like 2 more gears lol.
vital glen
I don't think they care @eager kite
Or you know, make 4th 1:1 or .9:1 @indigo coral
Something like that
indigo coral
you can't change that can you?
vital glen
Well you can.....
eager kite
Anything is possible with modding
vital glen
It's just gears....
indigo coral
that explains why on the highway I'm sitting at 2300rpm at 60mph lol
vital glen
But it is not worth the effort
indigo coral
yeah
vital glen
Doing 60 at .73:1, my highest gear, my rpms sit about 1700 rpm @indigo coral
indigo coral
slow as molasses though
ye
my ratio is fairly high
which helps passing power at speed but not fuel economy or engine wear
jagged coyote
wot
jagged coyote
that's long shifts
viral matrix
top speed of what exactly
jagged coyote
top speed for me would be 180km/h with a 5 gear stick
jagged coyote
yeah, don't have the balls to do it too
jagged coyote
mfw max torque on my engine is at 1750rpm
indigo coral
My car feels like it comes alive at 3k
stoic ledge
1: 3.727
2: 1.960
3: 1.323
4: 0.946
5: 0.761
R: 3.308
puggers
indigo coral
like it feels like a switch flicks and it really picks up as soon as it crosses 3k rpm
tight cypress
while im going 140kmh with fourth gear