Flight Sims (MSFS, P3D, X-Plane, DCS, FS98...)

[rustic charm]

Went missed approach in Sochi. I was fully set up for a VOR approach cause the METAR said 10km visibility with 3000 broken clouds when I was at my T/D. Once I descended though, just some 10 minutes later? Visibility 800m, heavy snow shower, clouds broken 500ft. As soon as I turned away from the approach path, the sim just froze and stopped showing any signs of life

[valid thicket]

chop chop

[echo gorge]

The ka 50 is such fun

[hollow oracle]

i am not paying $90 for no cabin and no livery config

it might win me over eventually, but right now, absolutely not

your paying fenix prices for a FBW level product

maybe if it performs exceptionally well, ill reconsider its worth, but if it gets horrible FPS i wont even touch it

[rustic charm]

It’s a single purchase for 2020 and 2024, right? Doesn’t make it more appealing to me, but it’s at least something

[green egret]

fbw is a stretch ngl

[reef isle]

721

doing the last (and longest) leg

#1165354616993632397 message

[dusky leaf]

Bell 206 crossing the border from BC to WA

[dusky leaf]

Orcas Island

WN35 meadow mist

WA35 clam harbour

[dusky leaf]

WN53 ❤️

[hollow oracle]

Feb 26th for the A350

[hollow oracle]

Speaking of good aircraft from like 2 days ago

How’s the MD80?

The MD-11 very rapidly became my favorite aircraft, so I’m kind of interested if the MD-80 can be as good

The external apps controlling it concerned me

[echo gorge]

Lovely

It's got a million caveats (sounds, textures, price) but regardless of all that is still my favorite msfs tube

[hollow oracle]

might be a good introduction to flying gauges too

[hollow oracle]

i will never understand fs2crew

i tried running it again, and it still makes no sense to me

i thought the FO actually, like, did things?

i have the setting set to make sure he does stuff, but all he did was just sit there the entire time

takeoff confuses the shit out of me too, i thought it should go gear up -> flaps up -> AP on, but for some reason it goes all over the place and the info center or checklist/flows assist is absolutely no help

plus the 8 billion external programs you need running to get it to work

[hollow oracle]

45fps in cancun, wow

40 in the cockpit

[hollow oracle]

and i accidentally shut down an engine and cant get it to relight

wouldnt surpise me if its not simulated yet

[hollow oracle]

the ifly has a bunch of cool small details and features like that, but the pmdg 737 is just reliable

[hollow oracle]

vs an extremely solid 60 in the pmdg

[hollow oracle]

the aeromexico livery has grown on me ngl, i love the tail logo

[trail monolith]

https://inibuilds.com/products/inibuilds-a350-airliner-msfs-2024?srsltid=AfmBOoo4QChwcvGQUzBzIt-hNRgyMFDk2FLQyj-DmEn8iZIz66YHHnhW

[rustic charm]

The 737CL is apparently well into beta testing and they plan to announce the release date soon

[runic hare]

need the old one

[reef isle]

@rustic charm I flew with the virtual Russian swifts today, it was a great experience, thank you so much for helping with the translation ❤️

[hollow oracle]

damn, everybody is flying russian today

[hollow oracle]

its really weird how simbrief generates russian routes

like half of the time they use post-2022 routing, but then other they route you pre-2022

my flight from copenhagen to moscow goes over latvia, but then if you try to fly from moscow to kaliningrad, it takes you north over st petersburg, over the baltic, and then into kaliningrad

obviously the weird routing to kaliningrad is because of airspace restrictions, as it goes entirely over russia and water and thats it

[runic hare]

Because there database of routes and route restrictions mirrors the real world

So you can’t fly between London and Moscow now so it uses an old routing

But for Kaliningrad - Moscow it uses the modern routing

Because that’s a route that’s flown

[hollow oracle]

ah, that makes sense

what the fuck, i uninstalled fs2crew mid-flight and he is STILL HERE

how the fuck do you quit fs2crew, there is literally no app open or anything, but he is still here

[runic hare]

If you do want to do a direct routing then you can plan it yourself or you can try and chance it with the route created through simbrief

https://www.xcrafts.com/news/introducing-ejets-family-2-lineage-1000

How the fuck did I miss this

[hollow oracle]

https://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/1iwdma4/time_to_wake_up/

study level without a cabin, lol

flight sim people drink gallons of the kool aid

cant even fly the inibuilds a320neo

ill believe "study level" when i see it

[tired pond]

I don't think a cabin makes something study level lmao

[hollow oracle]

no, but it absolutely determines how i view a product's quality, and i wouldnt say that a product without a cabin meets the level of quality that i associate with "study level"

when i see "study level", i expect a cabin, because that is a major part of the aircraft, like 90% of the inside of it

[tired pond]

I think the issue is because the aircraft was made for 2024 natively and so was more ported to 2020

[hollow oracle]

not including a cabin though? i havent developed for MSFS, but i do know 3d modelling and texturing, and i know for a fact that it wouldnt be hard to include it

[tired pond]

They've said something LOD wise as 2024 does LOD'ing differently

[hollow oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/overheat-computer-explosion-boom-spark-gif-17323916

the laggiest airport vs the laggiest aircraft

[rustic charm]

No problem 😄 glad you enjoyed it!

[hollow oracle]

the 787 SUCKS to hand fly

remember when boeing revealed the 787 and it was literally a fiberglass shell with absolutely nothing on the inside? thats what it feels like to hand fly

[runic hare]

Fairly accurate then lmao

I think I’ll do some early morning flying

[dusky leaf]

The flying bum 😆
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/24/the-flying-bum-uk-firm-airships-airlander-hav

[runic hare]

Average British garagista brand name

[runic hare]

waiting for IXEG to release the -300 classic classic

[runic hare]

@reef isle VC10 glass cockpit prototype

https://www.vc10.net/Technical/FlightDeckDesign.html

[reef isle]

This hurts my soul 😭

it's very interesting but...

[runic hare]

very interesting read

BAC developed a MFD for the VC10

the 737Max still doesn't have an MFD

[hollow oracle]

Didn’t PMDG say that the 737 classics are in beta testing and should be due this year?

I swear I heard that some time ago, it was some big thing because it wasn’t super public for the development

[rustic charm]

PMDG ever planned 737 classics?

CSS did recently say that theirs is in the final stages of beta

[hollow oracle]

i think youre right, for some reason my mind defaulted to PMDG

[rustic charm]

I’m not sure if CSS are gonna do a gauge cockpit though

[rustic charm]

Also why is the fuel panel there

[hollow oracle]

how is rex atmos and weather force?

both are pretty high on my list to get right now, it seems like they overhaul the weather systems in MSFS pretty substantially

weather force itself seems to be an entirely new live weather system that im really interested in, because the default MSFS one sucks REALLY bad

though, from reviews, weather force seems pretty polarizing

it looks like its good at the local weather, but enroute its actually worse than the MSFS default

[hollow oracle]

neeeevermind, my credit card is fucked, so i cant get either

i was at least going to get atmos for the flight i wanted to do tomorrow (or later today, i guess)

[full plank]

Atmos is alright, helps get rid of the ashy clouds

[runic hare]

There is an INS in the overhead

[wide zenith]

A350 nda is goneso

[trail monolith]

And releases tomorrow

Sorry for the ping

[rustic charm]

Anyone gonna be picking it up quickly?

I would go for it maybe, but March might just be a very busy (and therefore very expensive) month, so I’m gonna save for some other planes that might come out soon that I want more

[wide zenith]

I'm feeling the impulse

[reef isle]

Fog over the bay

[trail monolith]

https://youtu.be/ECGCzvt-fFw?si=5d8TR_jYbwi1SlMq

[full plank]

Yea i’ll probably be buying it as soon as I can when I get off work

I have specifically requested a nice & easy day & they’ve honoured my request

[rustic charm]

The F28v2 will release relatively soon it seems

Apparently a couple weeks

[hollow oracle]

are there any reviews of it in 2020?

[echo gorge]

The f28?

[hollow oracle]

a350

all i can find is 2024

the rex atmos software is extremely confusing

[hollow oracle]

eh, i got it for $12 because i had like $2 off from justflight, its alright i guess

it does make it look significantly better in some conditions (like fog), but outside of that, its not really anything noticable

[hollow oracle]

thank god the TFDi MD11 can do holds properly now

blew past my TOD heading into cairo

shit approach, but good landing, ill take it i guess

i would delete this flight if it wasnt 4 hours and connecting europe to the middle east

[hollow oracle]

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1894455348595233105#m

Elon Musk (@elonmusk) on X

@typesfast It should be

X · Feb 25, 2025, 6:32 PM

worlds smartest man

[hollow oracle]

cant park there

[hollow oracle]

technically my 100th flight, but im not celebrating because im bound to trim some shitty ones, so itll never be 100% accurate

[hollow oracle]

ive actually never done much in cruise as far as becoming more efficent goes, but i adjusted my cruising altitude by a few thousand feet to get better efficency, and i ended up passing the atlas air 747 that i was racing from ohare to miami

[hollow oracle]

i kinda wish that FCR would get some cockpit details a little more accurate so i could do a cockpit recording too, but oh well

[hollow oracle]

for some reason some numbers arent adding up, but after 100 flights, heres some interesting stats

i really need to do some more A300 flights, but its in a weird state where ive only done one flight, and its been so long that ive almost certainly forgot how to fly it

[hollow oracle]

adding prices to the mix is not good 💀

At least it shows what aircraft I need to fly to get my money’s worth, the A300 and 737/739 mostly

[reef isle]

Man of culture

[rustic charm]

I still haven’t flown the 146 yet, own it for almost a year

Gotta fix it at some point

[trail monolith]

https://inibuilds.com/products/inibuilds-a350-airliner-msfs-2024?srsltid=AfmBOoo4QChwcvGQUzBzIt-hNRgyMFDk2FLQyj-DmEn8iZIz66YHHnhW out now

[wide zenith]

[runic hare]

oh god

here come the hoards

[trail monolith]

@balmy minnow Think you were interested in the plane?

[balmy minnow]

IT’S OUTTT??😍😍

finally😛

[wide zenith]

XWBA moments before takeoff on its delivery flight to EGLL

[runic hare]

jesus christ

I would quite like to hear the angry French controllers

[dusky leaf]

This is out, fantastic heli, stable but agile
https://store.x-plane.org/VSKYLABS-902X-NTR-No-Tail-Rotor_p_1999.html

[reef isle]

genuinely better lighting than MSFS2020

(sorry for the aspect ratio, I had the sim on my second monitor)

[rustic charm]

And there’s an Il-86 too

Wish there was one for fs20, tbh would probably be one of the best choices for a Soviet plane to make

[reef isle]

And ini would have about 50% of the cockpit ready because they did the An-225

[rustic charm]

Well, I wouldn’t go as far as 50%, those planes aren’t even the same design bureau after all

But tbh I wouldn’t quite trust ini to do it xD

[reef isle]

Yeah but as you know there was a lot more shared tech in the SU

If you look at the autopilot, the artificial horizon and airspeed indicator it's the same

The MiG-29 and the Tu-134 had the same gear/flap configuration indicator

[hollow oracle]

do not look at volanta traffic 😭

every single flight on the map is A359

[reef isle]

Maybe the artificial horizon is not quite the same

But the ASI is the exact same

[rustic charm]

Well there are similar elements, sure, but I wouldn’t quite say it’s that much

Plus that’s just the Captain/FO area

[reef isle]

Oh yeah

[rustic charm]

An-225 sits 6 iirc

[reef isle]

The back is totally different

[rustic charm]

Which I still can’t quite comprehend to be honest, that is just really something

[reef isle]

That's fair, maybe I exaggerated a bit, but the 225 would definitely be a very strong starting point for a lot of other soviet planes

[rustic charm]

Oh definitely, yeah, it would be easier than doing everything from the ground up. But I think the margin isn’t that much

I just think that if ini decided to do Soviet stuff, we’d miss out on a fair bit of variants. Niche variants, but nonetheless

[reef isle]

Better than nothing... 😅

And also I think that with steam gauges planes ini's amazing 3d modelling really comes into its own

The AN-225 cockpit is excellent

[rustic charm]

Well tbf, the 86 actually didn’t have variations as much. I was thinking of the 96. Cause there we’d miss out a lot I reckon

[reef isle]

Yeah that's fair

[rustic charm]

To be fully honest I don’t really have experience with ini other than my couple 310 trial flights, but their gauge modelling does look good

[reef isle]

But I also think that the IL-96 and the Tu-204 sit in a very awkward position, as they have still somewhat modern and complex automation/digital systems and wouldn't really sell that much more than the IL-86 IMO

Or other older simpler planes

[rustic charm]

True

Tbh the 96 has a bit of usage

You could even fly it present day with Cubana

[reef isle]

Yeah true

But yeah, my hopes for any "modern" Ilyushin/Antonovs are very low

I'd love it, but yeah...

[rustic charm]

Tu-204 still runs as a freighter with Aviastar, plus I believe RedWings has a few 204s/214s

[reef isle]

At least with the old steam gauges planes you could make the argument that they'd be easier to make

[reef isle]

Yeah, but the amount of people that would decide to fly the Tu-204 over the 757 would be tiny

[rustic charm]

Oh absolutely

You know what’s the funniest part about the 204/757 thing?

Aviastar TU, literally the Tupolev airline, has 757s

In fact their fleet is just 204s and 757s iirc

[green egret]

awesome aircraft

[hollow oracle]

the systems are incredible, literally second to none

this is what the A380 should have been

[trim harbor]

(the a380 is free)

[hollow oracle]

and early access, but still, i cant go back to the A380 after this experience

[trim harbor]

you cant bash a free aircraft

honestly said

for it being free it's incredible

[hollow oracle]

i do not agree with this

there is a difference between bashing and pointing out things that are unfinished

there is also a difference between bashing and being dissapointed with how something turns out

[trim harbor]

yea but i rather have a unfinished a380 than waiting for 5 more years to it

i'm grateful for what we have

it's good for what it is at it's current point

it functions the way it should

it's free

cant really complain

[hollow oracle]

heres a good comparison of how good atmos is, because i forgot to turn it on for the first pic

[rustic charm]

Looked into it, and it looks like it removes the weird yellow-ish tint of the sim which I quite despise

Does it do a good job at that?

[wide zenith]

an aircraft that has inbuilt immersion effects is very welcome

[hollow oracle]

oh yeah, especially in fog and stuff, it gives it a cooler temperature

for like $14, im satisfied with it

i know i posted this before, but its a great example

[wide zenith]

its never gonna get old

[rustic charm]

Yeah, looks quite great

Much better than whatever the hell this colour is

Tbh it’s just certain times of day when clouds look like this, but it annoys the hell out of me

[hollow oracle]

atmos will most likely fix that

wtf? how do you tune ILS freqs in the A350?

i had to do a go around because it was on 111.5 instead of 108.9

position -> navaids, and then at the bottom theres boxes for ident, frq, and crs

its working now

dont know why it didnt autotune

[runic hare]

Nice clean wing

Sure it’s gonna be fine

No de-ice needed

[trail monolith]

You better butter the plane /s

https://twitter.com/MSFSofficial/status/1894883616976462178 Anyone here ever joined one?

Microsoft Flight Simulator✈️ (@MSFSofficial) on X

This week we're taking another flight to a Northern locale! 🧭

After flying over Norway in last week's Fly-In, we’re off to the other side of the Atlantic to visit Yukon, one of Canada’s three territories.

Event Details:
🔗 https://t.co/fqxZgkVOH1

X · Feb 26, 2025, 10:53 PM

[untold finch]

https://old.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/1izf5j9/aamir_fenix_statement_on_the_a350/

IniBuilds seem to have cut a few corners with this one

[hollow oracle]

That comes off as extremely “high and mighty”

Like he’s the absolute authority on airbus aircraft in MSFS, and anything not fenix is garbage and you shouldn’t even bother wasting the energy to look at it

At the very least, aamir from fenix gives me bad vibes

[echo gorge]

That message seems quite salty, but I don't think that means he's wrong

[hollow oracle]

That’s exactly what I’m thinking

The A350 is very good but not perfect, that’s absolutely true

It’s funny going through the comments on that post and seeing people backpedal so hard that their tires are spinning

All of a sudden, the inibuilds a350 is “shallow”, for beginners, and shovelware for babies?

The A380 has mostly the same systems, and THAT is shallow

I think a lot of people got overhyped with the A350 and had their expectations crushed, compared to me, setting my expectations extremely low and now I’m a huge fan of the A350

[wide zenith]

I'm okay with the aircraft regardless, is it fenix or fslabs level of system depth? Nah. do I need it to be? no. for me i'm happy with an aircraft that is vatsim/air traffic capable. Ie holds, directs, go arounds, secondary flight plans, step climbs. as well as navigating your basic aviation needs. Thats my ideal product

the price? they're captilising on a unsunken market in msfs currently so yeah ini are gonna milk it

I get its disapointing if system depth is not there for those who want it, but for me it does everything I need it to + a little bit more with the immersive effects ect

[trim harbor]

so

whats the status

i see alot of people hating the a350

but alot lovign it

[hollow oracle]

how hyped were you for the a350 to release, on a scale of 1 to 5

[woeful elbow]

Ngl, I think even vatsim controllers getting mad about the 350 xd

[hollow oracle]

thats because everybody immediately fired it up and went into VATSIM to fly it without any sort of prior experience

[woeful elbow]

Because even now, Im on vatsim doing a flight with my brother, we have been told to expect some delays into egkk

[trim harbor]

0

[hollow oracle]

you will love it

[trim harbor]

i didnt even know 💀

i was visiting my family in japan so i was busy anyway

i need to get the flight sim stuff set up

[woeful elbow]

LMFAO, LONDON CONTROL just said " soo many 350's"

LMFAO

inibuilds may have broken the vatsim controllers lmfao

[hollow oracle]

the broader flight sim community are like ants, when one creator says something, they follow, when a bigger creators says something, they follow them isntead

[woeful elbow]

lmfao

[hollow oracle]

the A350 was the most hyped release of the year, and then aamir came along and said it was bad, so now its bad

[trim harbor]

As long as it flies a to b

Without much issues

I reall dont care ibr

I cant remember ever using 90% od the fenix features lol

[reef isle]

Just tried the IXEG 1.33 (X-Plane 11)

Unfortunately a problematic plane 🫤

[hollow oracle]

EXACTLY

[hollow oracle]

it does that, with holds, go-arounds, AND alternates

i have like 50 flight hours in the A320, but i still dont fly with failures, which is like the fenix's whole gimmick, is that its simulated with full failures

[reef isle]

For me the main thing is the flight model and systems 😄

I can't fly with the ini's roll Deadzone

But I don't really fly any modern AB much, so I don't really care

[wide zenith]

Its not an ini aircraft without its bugs

press the video button and it kills the aircraft

this is how my flight is ending

thanks msfs

[hollow oracle]

i forog to send screenies because i was in a rush to leave for class

[hollow oracle]

off-topic, but i was watching a clip from the american airlines flight being escorted by fighters, what does having fighters escorting an aircraft have to do with keeping it safe during a bomb threat?

at the very least itll freak out everybody on board, and possibly whoever even sent in the threat

[untold finch]

Presumably to control where it goes with said bomb. You likely want to keep it away from built up areas, or high value targets, especially if the bombers get ideas about flying it into something instead.

[reef isle]

It's normal procedure

It's the same as if it was hijacked, one aircraft is escorting it, the one sitting behind it is ready to destroy the aircraft in case it gets used as weapon

[hollow oracle]

the airbus girlies are fighting

[hollow oracle]

awesome

dont know how to fix it either, i edited the parking position in the editor but it wont actually apply

[hollow oracle]

what the fuck, it happened again

something with the A350 locks up my camera if i try to do something

like, i cant use my mouse or keyboard to move the camera

my controllers dont work either

[rustic charm]

In what way? Is it exterior/interior/drone camera?

[hollow oracle]

all

i can change views using the actual camera menu, but i cant move any of them

i think i might have accidentally selected some text entry in the MCDU

wtf? now the aircraft wont power on

of course when i say i like the a350, i get killed by 8 million bugs

what the fuck?!?!?!

now the aircraft just wiped my flight plan

this flight is cursed

[rustic charm]

Yeah seems like something weird

[hollow oracle]

aaand the camera froze again, great

[rustic charm]

For camera not moving, it could be the lock to control the aircraft instead, triggered by C iirc

[wide zenith]

inibuilds moment

[hollow oracle]

nope

i think i found why its freezing though

yep

its related to P42 flow

if you go to the top toolbar, exit and re-open P42 flow from there, it unfreezes

and then pressing tab and opening the wheel freezes the camera

possibly related to GSX too, or just the pop-out panels

pressing tab might be related too

pressing tab twice?

which would explain why it broke on pushback a few mins ago, and why it broke when i was changing camera angles when landing yesterday

it would also explain why not everybody is having this issues, just users of P42s flow, or just users of the tab key

[hollow oracle]

after, unironically, 2 hours of bugs, im finally off

[full plank]

had a look through reddit earlier & seen some comments here in regards to the drama

its funny how the label ''study-level'' goes round more than STDs at a brothel, over half the community wouldn't know what the aircraft does & how it operates in the real world

I like Fenix & I like PMDG stuff, but people need to stop putting them on a pedestal... funnily enough the 350 was actually my first inibuilds aircraft

runs alright, sounds alright & so far all I've asked of it its done, so thats good enough

[reef isle]

Honestly I've no idea thy Aamir's comment blew up

he just said his opinion on the aircraft as a simple customer

It's definitely a shame that the ini one existing killed the Fenix one, because it's more likely than not that the Fenix would have been better, but it's not the first time and it will probably not be the last this stuff happens.

Who's ever going to do a 707 or a Caravelle when the god awful (but still popular enough to cannibalize an already tiny market) exist?

It's just the way it is unfortunately

[hollow oracle]

because he's THE airbus guy, with "the most realistic airbusses in any sim"

[hollow oracle]

also, the "ini one existing" didnt kill the fenix one, fenix killed the fenix one

two devs can make the same product, infact id bet you any money the fenix one would have done better

just like how the inibuilds a320neo came out, and it was garabge, and i still fly the FBW one over the inibuilds one

[untold finch]

They can, but after a certain point there's just diminishing returns on investment. If the Ini one is "good enough" then that kills a lot of the impetus to spend money again ona better one.

That's why being first to market is key, which is where Ini excel, because they're a big flash studio with offices in the UAE, who can afford to just yeet devs at things until they ship

It's also why FSLab's A320 was pretty much dead on arrival

[hollow oracle]

you are ignoring a lot of history

fslabs has a horrible reputation, fenix has a very highly rated record

[untold finch]

oh, no, i'm very well aware of FSLabs' reputation

[hollow oracle]

fslabs was dead on arrival because theyre the people who formerly released malaware with their product that stole all of your info, and they were competing with a dev team known to have made the best A320 that you can make

now, put up inibuilds, a mid-tier developer who gets middle-of-the-road reviews, with fenix, THE airbus developers, and fenix will obviously get a large group of customers because of the dev background alone

[untold finch]

a lot of people (sadly more than i'd have expected) were happy to look past the malware thing, and FSLabs are apparently somehow even more "study level" than Fenix

but yeah, I can't see Fenix wanting to be second to market

it's just not good business

They can't afford to take the same level of risk that IniBuilds can - if one of IniBuilds' products flops, no big deal, they have 3 more in the pipeline

plus that sweet, sweet Microsoft money

[wide zenith]

Its also a simulator market wide thing, little money flow = less ability to take risks

its why theres only one farming sim or one truck sim. Unless its offering substantial upgrades like a different engine or higher standard of quality its not gonna sell

look how microsoft came back to the market and dominate it now

same applies to third party devs competition is great if its affordable

[untold finch]

yeah, agreed

[wide zenith]

still waiting for some team to even touch the regional jet market with something of genuine quality and not early access

synapse a220 pls

[hollow oracle]

real

[full plank]

honestly, I don't think it was just the FSLabs rep that killed it & I have reason to believe that future FSLabs stuff (like the neos & Concorde) are gonna sell better than the 320

malware bit was after my time so can't really comment, but they're solid aircraft in all honesty, just a bit on expensive side

[full plank]

but yea trust me, I haven't had all my info stolen from FSLabs (yet)

Concorde is just 🔥 🔥though

[reef isle]

Well, technically yes, but not in reality

A Dev could just wake up and make a McDonnell 220, it's technically possible, but if I'm the one and only customer it's not really feasible

The ini A350 Is going to be good enough for the vast majority of flight simmers, even if the Fenix's A350 was actually going to be better they'd have way less customers than they'd need to make the product actually feasible

Look at FSLabs for example, their A321ceo is technically better than Fenix's under certain aspects, but it sold terribly, and I don't think the high price was enough to offset the abysmal number of sales, probably a Fenix A350 wouldn't be as bad, but it's the same kind of dynamic.

It's not whether or not they can do it, it's that it's just not economically feasible

[reef isle]

People don't care

You're overestimating a lot how much people cared/care

It was a loud minority that knew/cared back then, it was an ever smaller minority that actually stopped to buy their products, and it's even smaller now, almost a decade later 😄

People love to complain, especially gamers, but we all know nobody actually ends up voting with their wallet

I bet that subscription 737 classic is going to sell very well even though people are complaining about the pricing model

If that wasn't true microtransactions and loot boxes would have been gone by now 😅

Also just look at FSLabs themselves. I bet their A321neo is going to sell well, and so will their Concorde.

Also, Blackbird also cancelled their ATR as soon as MS announced it would be sold as a second party if you remember

It's full of precendent backing this stuff, hell, even in the real world, two fishes in a small pond doesn't work, just look at the DC-10 and L-1011, two competing products looking to please the same niche

And anyway this is all pointless, it wasn't an official Fenix statement, it was just his opinion, which he's 100% entitled to have and share IMO

[hollow oracle]

lubricated my airbus sidestick, and now its even less smooth

i took it apart to remove the hat switch at the top too, i never used it, and i always hated how it blocked the place that is specifically there to rest your thumb

i dont know why, im extremely clean, but my room just fucking attracts gross hair and crumbs like a magnet, and they go straight into my controllers, and no matter how deep i clean them they just get worse

ive looked into getting an actual airbus rubber collar to put on my sidestick just to keep cross schmutz out of the mechanism

hm... theyre $30

[hollow oracle]

ended up getting it, was $40 with shipping, but itll make it look more realistic while also keeping the internal mechanism safer from debris

https://www.cockpitphd.com/abbellowpro.html

jeff favignano uses it, and it looks pretty good, it covers the entire base but i never use any of those buttons anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tag9HpHwmOw

[hollow oracle]

who is going to be the first to be brave and do the longest scheduled flight? it just happens to be in an A350

18 hours and 50 minutes between new york and singapore

[hollow oracle]

i am almost tired of flying the A350

i am impatiently waiting for aeroflot and fiji airways, other than that im not super interested in doing any more flights

[rustic charm]

I mean, to be quite honest, I have no idea why people complain about it

$5/month or $50/year or $120/forever is not a bad model

They don’t force you to subscribe

So if there’s someone like me who likes to own stuff permanently, there’s an option for that

And 5/month is just wonderful too imo. If you know you’re not gonna fly it often, you can just pay this little amount, fly it once or twice during the month you get, and not think of it more

Or if you want to try the plane out first, instead of purchasing it right away

In my opinion the pricing model is actually really good

$50/year is a bit less attractive cause if you’re gonna pay for 3 or more years, you would’ve spent less by just purchasing it forever

[hollow oracle]

despite my extreme negativity towards subscription models, planes that expensive arent that bad of an idea

ive absolutely bought an aircraft, realized its not really for me or that its garbage, and you cant really do anything about it

so having the option to just pay $5, give it a shot for a month, and deciding if i want to keep it is a great concept

especially with something like the 737 classic, i have no idea if i have the brainpower to figure out flying gauges

the captainsim 717 is a good example, i bought it thinking that i would be doing delta and hawaiian flights, i did a single takeoff from honolulu and it wasnt doing it for me, and now i still have it with no real intentions on ever picking it up again

[runic hare]

That’s quite funny, even the FFA350 has more

[rustic charm]

It’s not gauges even

It has a glass cockpit

Well they did have gauges early on iirc, but for now all the CSS screenshots have shown the glass cockpit

[runic hare]

From my perspective MSFS is going down a very very poor route. It’s looks over actual sim depth. I honestly think the only two aircraft that are currently released for MSFS that you can consider a “Flight sim addon” is the Fenix 320 and the PMDG 737 series (even that is very much lacking in depth tho).

MSFS has been and I think will be for the foreseeable future will be a “Game”. That’s not me saying it’s bad, but I think if you’re angry about the ini 350 then it’s something you should remember before complaining about the lack of depth. This seems to be the way that 90% of newer headline MSFS releases have been made and what’s been on their minds while developing it. “We need the best looking plane” “the sim needs to look like the real world” “textures need to be 12k” “everything must look perfect” as opposed to “we need to model all the systems as detailed as possible” “we need a very accurate flight dynamics system”.

Like I said it’s not a bad thing because MSFS 2024 (if you have good internet) looks fucking insane compared to anything else. But if you want a full aircraft with very accurate system depth and good flight dynamics then I think you might have to start moving away from it. I think the current market aside from the core flight sim lot who want and care mainly about fully accurate operations just want it to look good and work.

Jesus Christ

That was an essay for no reason

[hollow oracle]

Aren’t there sims like xplane and p3d that sort of fill the sim depth gap?

Flight sims are the same sort of principle as train sims, as the graphics get better, the sim fidelity goes down, as the graphics get worse, the sim fidelity goes up

Idk, people are acting like the A350 was developed by bredok3d, but at the very least, the A350 has some good middle-of-the-road sim fidelity

[rustic charm]

My opinion is simple - I don’t need every circuit breaker to be functional. I wouldn’t use it anyway. As long as it allows me to fly a simple A to B as you would do in reality, it’s a good enough plane for me

[hollow oracle]

If I can watch a real world pilot operate the aircraft, and then follow their movements in-sim and still be able to fly it, it’s a good aircraft by my standards

The A350 meets that standard

Obviously +/-, the EFB software is never going to be remotely close to what real pilots have in the A350, but that’s just how flight sims are. as far as I’m aware, everything else in the SOP to do a regular A-B flight, with go-arounds, holds and alternates is fully working in a realistic manner

You can’t even say that about products like the TFDi MD-11, which costs $5-$10 more (though holds were finally fixed recently)

[hollow oracle]

If they don’t even include a gauge cockpit, what’s even the point of making a 737 classic?

[rustic charm]

I think you’re mistaking the classics and the originals

Most of the classics as far as I know had glass cockpits

[reef isle]

That's the problem

That pricing model doesn't make any sense for them, and it doesn't make sense for us

[rustic charm]

Well I do think that the 50/year doesn’t make much sense, but 5/month and 120/forever look quite reasonable

[reef isle]

A lot of people buy the plane, and then fly it for maybe 6 months/1 year and then move on onto more interesting stuff, especially if we're not talking about a super mainstream plane like the A320/737NG.

The problem is not the price, is the subscription model, because that model they'll have big economic incentives (much bigger than a "normal" pricing model) to do something sketchy and anti-consumer.

One of the easiest way to have people constantly renovating their subscription for example is to keep the product relevant with new updates (see for example how the now forgotten F28 is back in the news because of the upcoming V2 update), why shouldn't they break their plane on purpose to then update it with a fix, or drip feed fixes they already have so that the plane is Always relevant and constantly updated? Maybe they won't do that, but they have an economic incentive to do so.

Also there's ton of historical precedent of "lifetime" subscription that are simply no longer supported and you're forced to go back to subscriprive, look at Filmora for example.

Maybe some day they'll do a 737 classic V2 and you'll have to pay 120€ or subscribe.

Also will they make it really easy to subscribe and make it REALLY HARD to unsubscribe, will they still charge you even if you unsubscribed because of a "mistake"? those are all things that have already happened to other shit-as-a-service company.

I also don't want this to become a new standard. I am not going to support this pricing model.

For the first time I'll be proud to use a cracked product.

[reef isle]

Trying out a high level plane for 5$/month seems to good to be true, and I think it will be disastrous for them. So where's the catch?

[rustic charm]

Well it’s more expensive than any other option in the long run

[reef isle]

Not really if you buy and they support the lifetime plan

If you think you'll get the -500, -400 and -300

[rustic charm]

Just the -500 to start off

The -400 and -300 will be later

[reef isle]

Yeah, but they said they will add all variants for free

(which of course I don't believe they will)

[rustic charm]

Yeah, those prices will be for the whole family together

[reef isle]

This value proposition doesn't make sense

[rustic charm]

I think it sounds quite reasonable. Of course, as you described, they could be shitty devs and do shitty things. But can’t everyone? At this point I just hope they won’t be doing stuff like that

[reef isle]

Yeah, but with a subscription model you can be way more shitty than with a normal pricing model, and in more subtle ways, that's the issue, and that's why I'm not going to support this plane, if other Devs see this, and see that people are fine, will this become a new standard? Fuck that.

[rustic charm]

I’m not a fan of subscriptions generally, so I’m gonna just buy it. Simple as that. I would absolutely not support them if they only offered subscriptions, but as long as there is an option to buy, I’m fine with it

[reef isle]

I see it differently. Giving them money in any way is supporting them, and supporting this pricing model, and biggest issue of all, you're just buying their promise of this actually being a "lifetime" subscription

I will not support this product in any way whatsoever

I've been working on trying to get my IXEG 737 classic working on X-Plane 11. I don't even want to fly this stupid thing on MSFS.

[rustic charm]

Well, for now, I trust them, so I’m ready to buy the promise. At least for now. Plus I do actually think that the ability to try out the plane for a limited time for some small price is a nice thing

[reef isle]

This is one of the very few things on which I have some very strong opinions about, so all I can say is that I'd be happy to agree to disagree with that 😄

[rustic charm]

I own the 707, and I would’ve loved if I could pay even a cent less than I paid for it xD

[reef isle]

Sorry to hear that

[rustic charm]

Yeah, I completely understand. I have some opinions on other topics that I would also simply not change, so it’s fine to agree to disagree sometimes

[dusky leaf]

56 knots across the runway in a DHC3 otter - wish me luck 😆

I am actually kinda glad it ended like that, no way you should be able to make that landing in an Otter

[trim harbor]

bruh r people so goddamn unsatisifed

with the a350

all i read is hate

it cannot be this bad

i seen hate since fenix sim said they cancelled theirs

[reef isle]

From what I can tell based on my friends that have it is that it's unreliable

It's not bad, it's just that it has a few issues

[rustic charm]

Well

All I’m gonna say is

If I remember it right, the A300 also had a not-so-great start

I’m sure the A350 will get its fixes

[untold finch]

You can say that again lol

It did get there in the end at least

[runic hare]

I've reinstalled XP12

[reef isle]

Excellent

[echo gorge]

The glass cockpit of the classics is very different to that of the ngs

[rustic charm]

Oh it definitely is

It’s kinda like the maddog’s glass cockpit

[woeful elbow]

tui max 8 across th atlantic incoming

[hollow oracle]

im going to do the unthinkable

the A350 convinced me to give the ini a320neo another shot

indigo is the largest operator of the a320neo and i somehow havent flown them yet

[wide zenith]

I feel like the a350 hate is a small loud minority

[hollow oracle]

i havent done 3 flights in 2 days with it because i hate it

[runic hare]

oh XP12 how I have missed you

still need to tweak grapical settings

[hollow oracle]

thats not fog

[hollow oracle]

the ini neo is better than i remember it being

its honestly hard to say if i like it more than the FBW one, the ini one has far better modeling, but the systems arent as great as FBWs

[hollow oracle]

normally i dont really care about finding ways to make myself more efficent in cruise, but recently i have been, and its been pretty fun actually

my planned cruise is 380, but headwinds are at 131kts, but if i descent a few thousand to 340, winds are 122, and they stay a little nicer for my entire route

unfortuantely its pretty bad headwinds the entire route, so i cant do much as far as that goes

[hollow oracle]

the autopilot on the ini a320 is still... special

for some reason it did this when it locked onto the localizer

and when it detects the glideslope, it just stops descending completely and ignores VNAV, and just holds altitude until it hits the glideslope diamond

i guess it makes sense as far as the software goes (its not even tracking vnav anymore, its purely tracking glideslope), but im pretty certain that the plane still follows the vnav path until it meets up with the glideslope

what the fuck!?

no thrust reversers on landing, no autobrake (because the aircraft completely ignored the decel point so i was left to manually set it WAY too late, which fucked up my landing flows)

NOW IT WORKS???

thankfully the runways in dubai are fucking gigantic, so i could land with just speedbrakes essentially, and i needed to taxi pretty far to the end to get to the intl terminal

[trim harbor]

R yall flying the a350 on 2020 or 2024

[runic hare]

That’s a first

Polish MP on our flight

Came in like a little diplomatic car with a seal on it

[trim harbor]

take a selfie w him

poland nr 1 🇵🇱

[echo gorge]

On Ryanair? Must not be getting paid much lol

[dusky leaf]

12 gb GPU if you want to run it at anything above medium graphics - Uses just over 8 with my med - high settings

Ran out of skill on the landing

[trim harbor]

r u on 20 or 24

[wide zenith]

24

[trim harbor]

r u running the beta thingy

su1 or wtvr

[wide zenith]

yeah

SU1 beta

[trim harbor]

how did u activate it

[wide zenith]

on steam?

[trim harbor]

oh

steam

i use xbox like a broke person

[wide zenith]

Xbox Insider Hub is what you're looking for

[trim harbor]

all i have is this

ghetto af

[wide zenith]

huh

[trim harbor]

w8 that he beta

nani

[wide zenith]

idek how you'd check if your on simupdate

[trim harbor]

idk either tbh

this all i c

[wide zenith]

lemme ask fren

i'd imagnie its the beta thing there while waiting to see what they say

cause they use gamepass

[wide zenith]

so yeah that

[trim harbor]

how

i see this

no option to really participate

[wide zenith]

It looks enabled in the pic

it doesn't update or anything

[trim harbor]

wait it doesnt

wut

[wide zenith]

nah like does it update

or just does nothing

launch game press alt enter that should be the version

[trim harbor]

how do i see if its su1 when i launch the game

oh

oh...

[runic hare]

I think they have to seem like "normal people"

He was an MEP

not an MP

[trim harbor]

Jal based

Although more on the ana gang

[echo gorge]

I love jal's logo, ana has a nicer livery though imo

[wide zenith]

Agree, also love ana's special liveries

[trim harbor]

Service wise I prefer ANA

They‘re both great though

[rustic charm]

ANA does have a nice logo

Although my favourite logo of all time is TUI

In my opinion it’s just so clever

[trim harbor]

Pmdg and s tier

Lmfao ok

[rustic charm]

Well

I guess way back in the day

[trim harbor]

Pmdg is literally everything bur S tier

Fenix said 1 thing

Now the entire community trashes the a350

what a sad state this community is in

Bunch of retards

[rustic charm]

Right now they are definitely not, yet they think they are

[trim harbor]

Fs2004 and fsx days yes

[rustic charm]

Yeah

Back then

[hollow oracle]

ruined their reputation???

first off, if you think inibuilds had a reputation of making like fenix level airbusses, then you have been smoking crack

[wide zenith]

all this reddit yap

just show them all 359,35K's online

[hollow oracle]

literally worst aircraft obviously

people are only hate-flying it

controversial version

[wide zenith]

need a reddit and avsim version

[wide zenith]

LMFAO

[trim harbor]

This

Is

So true

I cant

[trim harbor]

I havent heard anything from the avsim boomers in a while

[wide zenith]

they probably had a cumulative heart attack when the ini came out

back in haneda

RJCC > RJOO > RJTT not bad

[rustic charm]

I gotta say, the 350 looks cool and even tempting

[trail monolith]

About 810 Swedish crowns

[rustic charm]

Which is a lot from a team Boeing person who generally doesn’t care for modern planes

Plus to be honest, the marketplace version for me is a fair bit cheaper than $90, more like $58

[wide zenith]

overtime weathering is cool

I like it a lot

even if its not fully fleshed out with failures like the fenix or fslabs

or system depth I wouldn't know i dont fly them for a living

What I can say is it looks like one, sounds like one and is capable of A to B with ATC level ability

• plus a few bugs but thats the inibuilds movement

[hollow oracle]

"bad" is generally not the word i would describe the A350 as

[trim harbor]

RJCC my love

sapporo my love

[runic hare]

nvidia DSR my beloved

think its just fixed 90% of my xp12 graphical issues

[hollow oracle]

its funny, you never really get burnt out on flight sims, just individual aircraft

like 4 flights in 3 days with the A350 is enough for me, i am absolutely burnt out on just airbusses in general, so its time to switch back to boeings for a bit

[trail monolith]

Fly a Cessna instead otherwise

[hollow oracle]

https://youtu.be/D_VQ1YZvFSQ?si=0oOfworaDrOhutqX

"we're checking out what kind of cargo they have" mountains and mountains of colombian nose candy

i would unironically rather skydive without a parachute into a alligator-infested swamp than fly with aerosucre

holy shit, having a pan under your engine to catch the leaking engine oil

[full plank]

wow flying SAS who would've guessed

[hollow oracle]

nevermind, a fiji airways a350 livery released, time to fly it again

https://flightsim.to/file/89350/fiji-airways-fleet-inibuilds-a350-900

ive been wanting to do a fiji flight for AGES, but im still having issues with the ifly max 8, and they only have a single -800 in their fleet

[rustic charm]

To be honest, Aerosucre isn’t the deadliest ever

Or the unsafest ever

Maybe now? Out of rather big airlines? Maybe.

Although it’s not actually big

[hollow oracle]

dont they have more totaled aircraft than they do in their current active fleet?

[rustic charm]

That is true as far as I know

[hollow oracle]

i think by all-time passenger fatalities, aeroflot is actually the most unsafe ever, mostly from the 30s-50s though

[rustic charm]

But their current fleet is very small

[hollow oracle]

yeah, cause they crashed them all

[rustic charm]

Potentially, but I’m not too sure there even is a true number

[hollow oracle]

wikipedia says 8,231

[rustic charm]

Mostly from the Soviet times indeed, and really, Aeroflot in the Soviet times was way different

[hollow oracle]

definitely

[rustic charm]

After all Soviet Aeroflot iirc was the largest airline ever anywhere

[rustic charm]

Yeah, but do you trust it? It could be more

[hollow oracle]

true, there is definitely room for error, but wikipedia does have a full list of aeroflot accidents and the numbers of fatalities for each

[rustic charm]

Also those could be not only airliner accidents, I think

[dusky leaf]

CYZT Port Hardy

[dusky leaf]

Tamgas Harbour in the EC135 😆

If I had a bit more skillz I woulda landed on the back of one of them trucks 😆

[hollow oracle]

@rustic charm how is the FSS 727? Its been calling to me like the green goblin mask

I’m more tempted every single passing day, but the gauges scare me severely

And no auto throttle and everything

theres a mexican cartel ballad about the 727 and how popular it was in drug smuggling, and every time i see it in my queue on spotify i get the itch to try it

idk, i think ill look at the moosestaffa tutorial and if i can understand it, i might buy it

[hollow oracle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3muOd_gCQ0

[hollow oracle]

nevermind, i legitimately cannot comprehend how VORs and coordinates work

like, i know, but after watching his video, i know what a toddler knows about VORs

it doesnt help that youre manually flying, switching and updating waypoints manually, managing engines, working the engineers' panel, trying to manage this ancient autopilot

ill keep my magenta line, thank you

its like, im absolutely certain i could learn given enough time and practice, but its going to take a lot of effort and a lot of failed flights and losing where i am in space and time, not to mention paying $40 for that experience, its definitely a fun thing to learn but i dont know if i have the sanity to do it

[rustic charm]

As of now, bit buggy

It is fun overall

But it is definitely not like any other plane I fly

Depends on how you fly it of course, you can have AI ‘crew’ helping you, as well as having more modern navigation systems and autothrottle

Then it becomes just a bit more complicated than a 737NG

If you go for original condition, while also disabling any crew aids… well allow me to say that the 727 is the only plane in MSFS I’ve legitimately crashed. It sometimes just is a bit too much. You think you’re doing good, you’re flying fine, approaching Nome at night and the next thing you know is you hear “One hundred” and find yourself in the water

[dusty sky]

what dcs map can I get for 30 euro?

[woeful elbow]

Morning

EGKK IS SOO BUSY on vatsim rn

[full plank]

lovely first choice again

[reef isle]

Excellent airline choice I approve

Once the 757 is out I'll fly all of these weird 2000s charter airlines

[full plank]

can't wait for summer schedules to kick off, will be flying the 321 to bits then

[full plank]

always good fun flying all the retro stuff, makes a nice change from everything being easyjet, ryanair, wizz air, etc

[reef isle]

That's pretty much all I fly

Although I did fly with SWA recently

[full plank]

if I do long haul, i'll do some present airlines, but anything with Avro RJ or 321, i'll either do VA or retro stuff

Avro RJ is always a winner though, lovely aircraft

[reef isle]

Nice... Well, with the RJ you need to

[reef isle]

Waiting for a discount

I'd prefer a 737 classic to be honest

Now that I have the IXEG I might not buy it

[full plank]

figured fuck it, I had enough money to spend so I did so

I did take a brief hiatus from flying, primarily due to work so its nice to do some flying again

[reef isle]

It's just that I flew the BAe146 a lot, not sure how much more I'll fly the RJ, the only airline that only had the RJ that I really want to fly is Mesaba/Northwest

[full plank]

I did a fair amount of Atlantic Airways stuff & like 4 sectors with CityFlyer, sometimes i'll just deploy it on VA stuff in Canada just for a nice change

[reef isle]

Yeah, I get that, it's just that they also had 146s and I already flew those quite a bit 😭

[full plank]

funnily enough never purchased the 146, even though I probably should

oh yea EuroManx too, who can forget

[reef isle]

I think I'll wait for the F70/100 to go back to these flights 🙂

[full plank]

awaiting the Fokker series, was well impressed with the Avro RJ, so interested in getting some more JF aircraft tbh

would be a nice change away from Boeing/Airbus shit

[trim harbor]

Im p sure unless sale

*none

[trim harbor]

What va do u fly for retro stuff

[full plank]

none

[trim harbor]

O

I thought u fly retro va or sumth

[full plank]

nah

[reef isle]

There's one

Piedmont has loads of schedules that are hard to come by

https://www.piedmont-virtual.com/

@trim harbor

[echo gorge]

Great va btw

[runic hare]

https://my.vatsim.net/events/in-n-out

lmao

the thumbnail for this

usually they are really nicely done but this is fantastic

[runic hare]

100% better than this

[trail monolith]

Gotta love Scandinavia

[reef isle]

I know it only because of you 😛

Thanks

[trim harbor]

@reef isle

How do you do your liveries?

[reef isle]

Blender+GIMP

[trim harbor]

Planning to maybe do my own va but im struggling w making the liveries

[reef isle]

you just need to get the hang of it a little bit

we can create a thread if you want to know a bit more

[trim harbor]

I‘d love to

It‘s something I really really struggle in

[reef isle]

can't create one 😭

oh well, I guess just DM then?

unless @echo gorge can create a thread?

oh maybe they don't work in the forums thing

[echo gorge]

Lemme try

Doesn't seem like they work in forums :/

[reef isle]

yeah 🫤

just DM me

[reef isle]

(sorry for the ping btw)

[trim harbor]

Dms fine

[echo gorge]

No worries

[trim harbor]

I will in a few

[echo gorge]

I don't mind actually valid pings

[hollow oracle]

An excuse to fly out of Honolulu again?

[hollow oracle]

i havent watched venom yet, but that single throwaway airplane joke might get me interested

[hollow oracle]

im considering buying it again

[hollow oracle]

my problem is purely the CIVA and VOR/course navigation

its funny, im scared to buy it because i dont know how it works, but to understand how it works hands-on, im going to have to buy it

[echo gorge]

Lemme see if I can find the guide that taught me

https://web.archive.org/web/20200228040507/http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/index.htm

This is a bit long but imo it's a decent way to learn

Another recommendation would be just taking a ga plane out in the sim and playing around with the vors to learn

[hollow oracle]

Wow, those screenshots

Much like MSTS, I played around with FSX for a few minutes at a time, so I don’t have much fond memories of either outside of some extremely brief crashing

[hollow oracle]

pray for me, i just bought the 727

[rustic charm]

Have fun

I recommend flying it only in warmer climate

In any freezing temperatures there’s a bug where pitots freeze over and your airspeed gauge just stops working

It works once you gain altitude usually anyway, but I did crash near Hamilton once cause on approach I was in below freezing areas and it got stuck at like 210kts, while I had my autothrottle set for 200, so it just pushed back to idle and kept it there

[hollow oracle]

is that bug still there with the mile readout on the VOR gauge?

as long as the core VOR and coordinate naviation isnt bugged, im fine with it still being in development, thats the extremely critical stuff that i need to learn

[rustic charm]

Don’t think I’ve noticed bugs with VOR indications

I did encounter times when it would read the VOR correctly yet would not give FD indications and would not intercept it in AP

[wide zenith]

dawglas

[wide zenith]

my dog was begging for attention and I hit the eng 1 off on TCA

[hollow oracle]

DB cooper stairs

also, a relic from when pilots were allowed to smoke and fly at the same time

not taking off in it yet, i dont have the time tonight, but eventually i will

[reef isle]

YOOOOOOOO I FOUND A WAY TO LAND THE JUST FLIGHT 1011 WITH DLC

there goes (the little that's left of) my social life for the rest of the week

[hollow oracle]

with the 727, im guessing that the VOR freqs are only for hand-flying navigation? does the autopilot follow it or does it follow the coordinates?

im guessing theres an autopilot option to have it fly a certain VOR and course, but im assuming that you can fly it with just coordinate waypoints? and not worry about keeping fully up-to-date with VOR freqs?

[rustic charm]

Well

The autopilot allows for both

You have to choose the mode

There’s the VOR mode which is, well, VOR

And there is AUX NAV mode which is your INS

But one thing to remember is that 727s would mostly be flown with just VORs back in the day

[hollow oracle]

how would that work, flight plans that are just VORs?

what is it with approaches and stuff too, isnt it like no RNAV?

its funny how basic it is, yet even in its most basic form it supports ILS approaches

thats another thing i was kind of hoping to learn with this aircraft, manual approaches and landings

[hollow oracle]

or isnt it like, you dont do SIDs and STARs, its basically direct for both?

from what ive found (without tutorials), SIDs and STARs basically didnt exist like they did nowadays, so theyre treated differently, or just not at all?

[hollow oracle]

aha, i found it

and then im guessing for the arrival, you track the airport VOR, and then once your in range of the ILS you punch in the freq and it starts following?

im assuming if you want to use modern (as far as modern 727 ops go) flight plans with RNAV stuff, you have to use the modern computer systems to match the era your flying in, otherwise its just a frankenstien flying method that leaves a lot of holes in your plan

[rustic charm]

Yep

Well

If you want route waypoints that are not VORs, CIVA supports it too

You just input their coordinates directly, not the waypoint name

RNAV approaches are a no go with just VOR/CIVA

I mean, you could kitbash one with CIVA if you know all the coordinates, but it will be quite imprecise

[rustic charm]

As far as I know most of the time you’d just be vectored on non-RNAV aircraft

You get headings and altitudes, and end up on ILS

Or well, on any approach that is not RNAV

[rustic charm]

ILS is quite an old thing xD

It actually was first introduced in the late 1920s and approved by ICAO in 1949

[rustic charm]

If by manual you mean hand-flying a lot, you can still of course do it xD

[untold finch]

VOR/NDB/TACAN-only flying is great fun, did a couple of flights in the JF Vulcan that way. Definitely feels like you achieved something when you arrive

[rustic charm]

NDB is fun ngl

[dusky leaf]

NDBs are getting hard to find, disappearing everywhere

[rustic charm]

Yeah

Well, they still exist

Just not used usually

But if you want, you can still fly by them after all

[reef isle]

A/P can follow them

Not sure how good it is on the FSS, but on the FJS I'd only use it if there's next to no crosswind or for an ILS, 99% of the time I'm steering the aircraft with the heading bug

[reef isle]

ILS is almost WWII tech 🙃

Comet could follow an ILS

[reef isle]

There are some conventional procedures

[rustic charm]

From my experience, lateral guidance is quite great with the FSS 727

[reef isle]

@hollow oracle for example you can follow this STAR with only VOR/DME

[reef isle]

Ah cool, same as the F28 then 😄

[rustic charm]

The way it stays on glideslope is a bit scary imo so I just guesstimate the glidepath to follow with V/S

[reef isle]

I'd recommend making your own routes, flying VOR to VOR only is needlessly restricting, especially in the US, but it's good for starting out

[reef isle]

Oh yeah, I almost never let AP do that stuff ahah

on the FJS

[rustic charm]

I expect it’s quite realistic though that it doesn’t follow it precisely, the plane is old after all

[reef isle]

Yeah I guess

I found on an old forum post that IRL they'd also steer the plane using the heading bug (they were talking about the Trident though)

[rustic charm]

And now I’m about to do a transcontinental flight in a 727, Boeing Field to Miami VOR-to-VOR

[reef isle]

Nice 😄

If it's withing the US it'll be fine

[rustic charm]

Eh, tbh RNAV doesn’t scare me much either. You can still somewhat kitbash it

[reef isle]

Yes, but I fly on VATSIM

so it's a bigger problem 😭

[rustic charm]

Oh yeah, then it’s less simple

[reef isle]

also third time's the charm, not even MSP, it's Cleveland

which is a shame since it was a big Northwest hub

[rustic charm]

Is there really not anything non-RNAV?

[reef isle]

yep

you have to do like in europe, ask for radar vectors after departure/for the approach

[rustic charm]

Yeah, seems vectors would be the only way

[reef isle]

Thankfully US controllers are much more open to the idea of vectors so it's usually no big deal

(although I had some great experiences in France lately)

omnidirectional radar vector departure, then VOR to VOR and visual approach as there were no navaid whatsoever to that airport and only had an RNP approach

during an event ❤️

can't wait to fly the Mercure once it's out for MSFS

[rustic charm]

There’s a mercure being made for MSFS?

[reef isle]

Yes

my man Mario Noriega is making it

(the same guy that made it for FSX)

[rustic charm]

Nice

[rustic charm]

Okay, seems like doing this VOR to VOR was a bad idea. Right now I literally can’t even see the next one, I’m too far

Which does make sense cause I’m over central Washington and the next one on the plan is in the middle of Wyoming

And they don’t work anyway… the plane again refuses to intercept VORs for some reason

[reef isle]

Max VOR range in MSFS Is usually 150NM

Most US VORs have a range of 40-70NM for some reason

On X-Plane they're a lot better

[rustic charm]

Yeah, can’t do a transcontinental flight without getting a lot of different ones xD

[hollow oracle]

https://x.com/airwaysmagazine/status/1896938363028214100?s=46

Airways Magazine (@airwaysmagazine) on X

🔴 JetBlue and Nintendo have partnered to unveil a special Mario & Friends-themed livery on an Airbus A320. Named the Cloudtop Cruiser, this striking design celebrates the collaboration.

X · Mar 4, 2025, 2:58 PM

[neat stirrup]

just entered Mali airspace

[rustic charm]

Everyone seems to be in with the new. And I am too!.. sort of… this 727 would definitely not cut the new list today, if it at least still existed (probably remade into soda cans). But back in the day, and this flight for me is set in 1981, it would’ve only been just getting delivered to Air Florida, shortly after its first ever flight

[hollow oracle]

i had no idea they had the fake passenger variants until i started looking at liveries, its pretty neat

i wish it was a little easier to hide the freighter door seams, but its not half bad, i can see myself flying it

[rustic charm]

Yeah, folks just paint on the windows

[hollow oracle]

i think im gonna start flying the 727 with the XLS, that seems to make it a pretty modern-style airliner

and then once i learn that, i can step back to the CIVA

the GPS units look cool, but i cant imagine those were very popular irl, the XLS seems to be the boeing factory retrofit option that most airlines went with, not to mention the one is literally just the MSFS default system

aerosucre flights are extremely hard to find too, flightsimdispatch doesnt have any, and i can barely find any good resources

[trim harbor]

AF livery was hot af

[alpine coral]

gg

[runic hare]

https://github.com/hotbso/xa-snow

@trim harbor new favorite XP12 plugin

overlays snow on orthos

[hollow oracle]

ive been trying all day to get the 727 working

for some reason, it keeps crashing, im not sure if its GSX, bogota, or the 727

[hollow oracle]

the 727 is a complete bust

its crashing because of GSX

ive spent all day trying to get it even working in-sim, and now that i have, its time for bed

[hollow oracle]

i get what people mean by how bad it is

i shouldnt have trusted FSS again

its literally the same story as always too, reviews and tutorials NEVER show the product that your actually buying, its always going to be worse

[rustic charm]

Tbh, I’ve never quite seen people call it bad, and I’ve never encountered such severe issues

I don’t own GSX though so can’t quite know what’s going on

There should be a rather big update coming shortly and iirc they did mention something about GSX, so maybe a fix will be soon

[hollow oracle]

I’ll have to dust off toolbar pushback I guess

[reef isle]

If a plane doesn't have its own push system I just use shift+P and the ATC window

It's good enough 🤷

[rustic charm]

I just always use toolbar pushback

Does good enough, you can push in a certain pattern too after all

[rustic charm]

The 727 v1.0.8 is out

[trim harbor]

it aint bad tho

i never had issues w thje 727

its a joy to fly

[rustic charm]

Scenery looking nice

[wide zenith]

Starting to use 2024 more and more

that comes with the caveat of increased crash's tho 😭

is pretty

[hollow oracle]

Funny timing, but no mention of GSX in the patch notes

[hollow oracle]

i mean, the sounds and modelling are fantastic, but you just have to wade through waist-deep bugs to actually work it

[hollow oracle]

oh shit, the XLS system got updated to be realistic

damn, thats just the wx radar, ive seen photos where thats also used as a nav display

ill give these devs one thing, its that they do legitimately update their stuff quite consistently, and updates are usually steps forward rather than steps back

GSX still does auto-deboard

[rustic charm]

It’s a radar yeah, an non-functional one unfortunately

I hope that at some point we will get a plane with a functional old style radar

[hollow oracle]

why is my aircraft constantly stalling

im getting the stick shaker no matter what i do

autopilot is doing whatever the fuck it feels like, i cant get the flight director to show the flight plan bugs, i think the XLS is bugged because its not showing the departure waypoints, nor can i select the departure page to try and see if it is broken (it just brings me to the approach page)

my trim is as far forward as it can physically go, yet im still getting stall warnings

i cant tell if my aircraft wants to drift from the wind, or if its trying to follow the flight plan with no autopilot

my airspeed is low, with flaps and gear up, engines on very high power, and a normal climb attitude

[hollow oracle]

wtf? are there ANY tutorials on how to fly using the GNS XLS?

the only ones that i can find are real-world stuff, or in another language, both dont help me

all of the tutorials are using the CIVA, which i dont want to use yet

[rustic charm]

I am not too sure of what’s happening there

Well

I’m not sure why is it happening

How heavy were you there?

I see you’re high up and far from maximum thrust in the beginning

[hollow oracle]

I have no idea, loading was completely broken

how much should you pull off of the throttle after takeoff when its time to reduce thrust??

[reef isle]

you're way too slow

[reef isle]

You got behind the power curve of the aircraft, there's one thing you need to do: Full Throttle, push the nose down, get airspeed to let the plane breathe

with flaps retracted you shouldn't get much slower than 200kts

You reached 120 and you're still trying to pull, you're never going to get the plane to climb at that altitude and speed

You don't need to climb at the best climb speed, but if you're struggling to climb it's a good idea to do so

[reef isle]

Go to 91% N1

(sorry I missed it yesterday)

[wide zenith]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_oLOdWvyNg

[woeful elbow]

Im bare confused with atc rn

Delayed due to weather but its fine

I now know why

[trail monolith]

https://youtu.be/ZzVzwwuesrk?si=ItNjPqJNRZT_bOWr

[rustic charm]

I’ve just seen it

[hollow oracle]

weights werent set yesterday

i have my weights set today, and it is noticably harder to get rolling

i also figured out how to get the GNS-XLS working, with both the flight director and the nav

[hollow oracle]

i kinda get it now, nav isnt too precise but its better than navigation by VOR and coordinates

[hollow oracle]

descent time, pray for me

[hollow oracle]

wasnt able to land it, but my descent was fine, i just lost track of my vertical speed and over/undershot a few restrictions by a few hundred feet

my blood sugar dropped out HARD and i wasnt able to focus or comfortably correct anyway

[runic hare]

Oh

@trim harbor I’m back in Leipzig again tomorrow

I thought this was Łodz

[hollow oracle]

thats cool as shit

i had no idea that oakland had an enclosed freight loading setup

i was like "that cant be right, that building is way too close"

no, thats a door so they can load cargo while staying underneath a roof

[hollow oracle]

i dont know what is going on with this aircraft

all displays (minus the FD) are showing that NAV is working

but the autopilot isnt linked to nav, and the FD isnt showing up whatever i do

oh, fucking gross

[hollow oracle]

apparently custom liveries can have broken NAV

and the default fedex livery has no cockpit

[hollow oracle]

after a fresh re-install, it works now, for no reason other than "it just wants to now"

attempt 5 or 6, day 4 of owning it

fucking awesome

GSX fucked up and decided to just float me forward through the cargo hut, i tried aborting pushback, and because the 727 does automatic GSX stuff, it doesnt want me to reset my gate position

[hollow oracle]

so make that 7, and 5 days

this addon is literally the worst i have ever encountered in this sim, its hands down worse than the e-jets

• Some custom liveries will break NAV systems (no FD, autopilot doesnt follow NAV, but displays show proper routing)
• Occasionally, some default liveries will have a missing cockpit/cabin (fixed with complete re-install)
• GSX will automatically unload the aircraft on sim-start, even if it's already empty
• GSX will automatically start pushing back the 727 during the before start checklist, making it uncancellable, forcing the pushback to complete
• The 727 will crash the game very often on load (deleting the work folder seems to fix this temporarily)
• Couatl will occasionally crash through the automatic GSX integration (seems to be trying to automatically choose a ground operator that doesnt exist)
• GSX wil automatically choose a ground operator, most of the time being inaccurate (Southwest seems to be the most common)
• Nosewheel steering handle is not animated, even when it's being used tied to the rudder
• Nosewheel steering is extremely sensitive, very slight movements cause to skid and lose traction

My mindset has very solidly shifted from “I can’t wait to learn this aircraft” to “this is becoming a waste of my time and money”

[trim harbor]

Oh shit

Aasa

Im not homeee

Fuckk

:(

[runic hare]

Stunning weather

[trail monolith]

12 degrees too

https://folezzworld.com/index.php/folezzworldairbusa340/ Never knew Folezz was working on a A346

[trail monolith]

An-124's right?

[rustic charm]

Yep, those are 124s

[trim harbor]

Ikr

Toobad I missed u

Pity

[runic hare]

I mean unless they call me from standby that’s my last time in Leipzig

[trim harbor]

wait yyyy

[hollow oracle]

i actually did it

[rustic charm]

Today’s flight - Moscow to Cairo

[hollow oracle]

starting to get the procedures down reall well

[runic hare]

Last Ryanair flight at Leipzig is on the 28th this month