math-and-meta

[maiden marsh]

which recipe am i hunting agian

[vapid gorge]

Encased Pipe is the one we were talking about

Simplifies your overall steel production and is a huge resource efficiency boost

The only drawback to it is you need more assemblers

[vapid gorge]

I think it's worthwhile hunting all the recipes tbh. I'd say 80%+ of my machines are using alt recipes

[maiden marsh]

well itd be nice if i knew how many were left

[vapid gorge]

Yeah it's weird you can't load the file. What happens when you load your save in calc?

[maiden marsh]

i mean this is the only save i have

just says loading in the calc

[elfin wyvern]

I need to do some explo for harddrives as well.. juuuust want to redo some oil power and steel

[vapid gorge]

Yeah the alt recipes for oil and steel means I never use vanilla recipes

[vapid gorge]

do you click or try to drop the file? Cause dropping doesn't seem to work for me

And are you using some types of adblockers?

[vapid gorge]

The other thing you can do is use the base calc map and drop beacons on all the hard drives you collect so you can map out where they normally exist and cross reference them with your beacons

[maiden marsh]

dude who runs the calc told me thats not a save file

apparently since im playing on a dedi server, idk where the save file is

[vapid gorge]

ooooohhh yeah servers. Fair thought it was multi. You'd have to ask in the dedicated servers channel for that

[maiden marsh]

does loading the save file show you which drop pods ive gotten?

[vapid gorge]

In the mean time - beacons to track the ones youve gotten then and regular calc map to direct yourself. Or use your in game tracker to steer you for hte exploration

[vapid gorge]

Yeah if you manage to get your save file in it'll fade the drop pods that have been used

[maiden marsh]

cool ill ask him to see if he can snag that. in the meantime im doing it the slow way. got one hard drive in the last hour lmao

[proven prawn]

better question is what this has to do with this game🤔

[maiden marsh]

Common denominators. A math I figured I'd need but didn't for this one

[earnest ember]

I gonna cry

Between the white area and green area

Fk

[vapid gorge]

All your factories there? WELL... what about restarting a fresh save? You learn a lot doing it that way XD

[maiden marsh]

i may do a fresh save in another 40 hours or so. wanna get a couple full size builds under the belt before i start a fresh one

is there a meta starter location that is "optimal"?

im thinking prolly right there where i started that steel factory since it has 3 pure coal and 3 pure iron and 2 limestone deposits within spitting distance

[earnest ember]

no

OLD IRON,OIl and copper

others are save

[small oasis]

Fluidics question. I have an area where 4 fluid buffer stacks come together and mix ... and whenever I'm looking at the tanglefoot bag I made to make sure each tank could supply each of the four pipes that's outputting ... I get tons of frame lag.

Is this a fluid math issue that's causing the processor to chug ... or an issue with how I built it?

Seriously ... I chug hard and drop hella frames when I look at this junction.

[wind spade]

I mean... it's not really needed anyway

but yeah idk why

[small oasis]

I want the entire supply factory to supply every output line. shrug That way ... the entire thing supplies until capacity.

[wind spade]

so you are producing 4 pipes and want to supply 4 pipes?

[small oasis]

Eventually ... This is a thing so until I ramp up to full usage, the whole factory helps with everything ... instead of these four for this pipe, and these four for that pipe ...

[wind spade]

|  |  |  |
+--+--+--+
|  |  |  |

would be enough then

[small oasis]

Isn't that kindof what I did?

Just ... in a different grid?

[wind spade]

less junctions = less weird pipe behaviour

[small oasis]

I see.

So my junctions are causing extra math.

[wind spade]

and also, each factory should be on a separate pipe 🤷‍♂️

rather than trying to balance pipes

[small oasis]

Why? To me it makes sense to have an entire factory pushing at the deficiency.

[wind spade]

A1  B1  C1  D1
|   |   |   |
+---+---+---+
|   |   |   |
A2  B2  C2  D2

let's see in this case.

*1 are producers and *2 are consumers

if A1 produces enough fluid for A2, there's no need to merge anything in there or split anything from it, as you'll never have more than needed and also never have less than needed

Same for B-D

[small oasis]

Right ... but I'm not building it all at once ... I'm building the end-use as needed.

All factories produce X ... so I can pull off here ... and there ... off of any pipe ... as long as I limit within the max.

[vapid gorge]

It’s unlikely it’s the junctions causing the extra math, I have a spot with 4000 pipe connections in close proximity and the frame rate suffers just a big cause it’s big.

But having junctions like that will almost certainly cause backflow issues

[small oasis]

So ... I need to valve it?

[wind spade]

still tho. connect stuff to A1. When A1 is depleted, connect separate stuff to A2, repeat until done

no need to merge/split any pipes

[small oasis]

I feel you're not understanding what I'm trying to convey, though. shrug It's not as if I'm in this location much ... I'll leave it as-is.

Also @teal walrus: I've valved it on the main inputs from each tank stack (four of them) so there's no backflow and valved it after the tanglefoot bag.

[vapid gorge]

Noooo… valves should only be used when absolutely needed and even then it’s sometimes better to use a pump for directionality

Just have as few junctions from the place producing fluids to where they are consumed. Buffering often causes more problems unless you really know what is going on and used to solve a specific problem. There’s no really point to store thousands of fluids

[wind spade]

then please explain it to me, because from my point of view this construction you've made is pointless as there are much easier (and more stable) solutions to problems

[vapid gorge]

Valves have their own issues. The don’t allow fluid to pass unless the pipe behind them is X% full which can cause stuttering

[small oasis]

Well ... to both, clearly I don't quite understand the issues, then? Is there a tut I can study about the idiosyncrasies?

[vapid gorge]

The pinned pipe pdf in this channel is pretty thorough.

The big thing though is to have as few buffers, junctions and splits and mergers from point A to point B.

Just doing that makes fluid life much easier

[wind spade]

basically you don't want buffers, you don't want valves, you don't want fluid balancing, you just want a single pipe fluid manifold that's looped at the end and slight overproduction of that fluid.
there's a few bugs and few mechanisms that cause this, most can be read in McGalleon's pipe manual and there's a thread on reddit regarding pipe bugs (though I can't remember how it's named)

[vapid gorge]

Yeah and by ‘as few as possible’ that’s generally zero

[small oasis]

So it doesn't quite operate like my sense says it would. Ooph ... I like to have an entire factory pushing for a single area as it just makes the thing easier in my head. I see it as a big pool of everything I can draw from at any point after the entire mess is interconnected.

[frosty owl]

||Wrong "at" :P||

[small oasis]

I noticed after I hit enter. Didn't want to "at" per se ... just emphasize his name.

[vapid gorge]

A lot of people have the instinct to do this.
It’s just extremely difficult to do, doesn’t give you benefits, and if you need to change how much you’re making you’d have to tear the whole thing down

[small oasis]

Oh, the amount won't change on this ... this is for making turbofuel ... otherwise I can't do anything else. Heh.

[frosty owl]

I don't think your idea of it is wrong, it's just that there are multiple nuances that might not make things behave as you expect.
As already mentioned, the simpler the pipework, the better it works and the easier it is to troubleshoot ^^

[vapid gorge]

It’s easier to do what you want with belts because they are mono directional. Pipes are bi and cause problems

[small oasis]

Like many other things ...

Anyway.

[frosty owl]

Oi, no homophoby!

[wind spade]

are bi and cause problems
|| that would be weird out of context ||

[frosty owl]

||Who could ever misinterpret that ||

[small oasis]

Alphabet people.

[frosty owl]

#alpha-and-meta?
||Maybe #alpha-and-metha?||

[vapid gorge]

I mean I typed it out, saw the issue and went ahead with it anyway XD but I do hope that alphabet people thing was said ironically

[frosty owl]

Who's an alphabet and what's an alphabet people?

[oblique hollow]

#alpha-and-beta

[oblique hollow]

i think it chugs cause you have it lit up by lights, more than anything.

lower the light quality in the video settings

[small oasis]

That was NOT during the day and with my flashlight to highlight the piping mess. REGARDLESS It chugs day or night, lights or not.

[oblique hollow]

its not the pipes then

[small oasis]

... how is it not the pipes if it's not the lights?

[oblique hollow]

its something else. pipes dont cause this kind of lag

if they did they would be unusable

[small oasis]

Odd ... OK. It could be the lighting, then, since there's another layer under it, it's all frame and many light calculations for shadows. I didn't think of that.

[vapid gorge]

They don’t do true lighting either so unlikely it’s that unless you’re doing something really weird. They didn’t want lighting physics cause it’d kill the game

[small oasis]

Top layer vs bottom at night. So ... not too werid.

But ... it does get more chuggy at night, so there's that.

[vapid gorge]

V unlikely it’s that.

There’s loads of other things. Browser tabs, leaving the game on too long without restart

[small oasis]

Browser: 2 tabs ... official wiki and SCIm

[vapid gorge]

Could be that you happen to notice it more at night because it’s more obvious?

Scim, with a loaded map save, can kill your ram if it’s big enough

[wind spade]

scim can eat tons

[small oasis]

Ooops ... not scim ... tools

the production flowchart one.

[vapid gorge]

That should be fine

[frosty owl]

||I'm so disappointed I didn't think of this one 🤦‍♂️||

[vapid gorge]

Well after tech help I’d say it’s more likely something running in the background of your computer

App naughtiness

[small oasis]

'eh ... Steam, Browser, Discord, Calculator and VLC

And of course Satisfactory.

[vapid gorge]

Malware or just extensions that aren’t obvious.

[small oasis]

Nah, scanned nightly for that.

[vapid gorge]

Ghostery ends up chewing up tons

[small oasis]

Not using Ghostery

[vapid gorge]

Then it’s gremlins. Tearing your plane apart

[small oasis]

Fine ... going back to the Skunkworks.

Full day ... no issues with the area ... it's got to be a lighting issue.

[frosty owl]

Btw, I think you'd get better results asking in #satisfactory-experimental (where Ben lurks sometimes) or #off-topic-tech

[wicked tinsel]

i got a suggestion for people working on wikia: imho, it would be better if build gun was removed from recipe usage and moved to dedicated section. For stuff like plates or concrete, build gun takes 95+% of space and makes it impossible to actually find actual recipes

equipment workshop might be moved with it too, its also not very useful section

[vapid gorge]

Ctrl f to quickly highlight search words?

[teal walrus]

Am confused what did u ping me for?

[oblique hollow]

urged this before (like a few weeks ago), cant personally do anything about this tho as the process for recipe tables is automated

aka i dont know what voodoo they pull off to generate them

[wicked tinsel]

i see

too bad

[oblique hollow]

i know, concrete is the biggest page offender of "bloated beyond usefulness"

[vapid gorge]

It was a miss ping meant for me

[teal walrus]

Oh ok lol

[glossy sapphire]

idk what happened to my math. But I need a fuel generator (using normal fuel) using 1,333333333333 m3 per minute, how much % is that?

found it, I think it is 5.75

[wind spade]

it's 4.3704%

[glossy sapphire]

if I use 4.3704 it says this

[wind spade]

clock speed UI is broken

[glossy sapphire]

oh ok thanks

[median heath]

Is this the bottom part of the UI or the top left?

[median heath]

They really need to fix generator UI. Lmao

[wind spade]

I assume given the upcomming clock speed changes they don't want to bother

[proven prawn]

yeah the clock speed ui in the game has been broken for a while unfortunately😕

[glossy sapphire]

that explains why my oil production lines in the past never worked because there was smth wrong with the fuel 💀

[proven prawn]

game ui clock speed broken please fix💀

[median heath]

Did anyone recreate the "alt recipe" spreadsheet from the Game Design video?

[velvet jasper]

@boreal cypress I saw your pure copper build in #screenshots, just use copper alloy

[median heath]

You enjoy having less copper?

[velvet jasper]

My copper plant makes 18000 copper

[median heath]

That's not what I asked. 🙂

[velvet jasper]

Unless you are maxing map resources there’s no reason to use pure copper

[boreal cypress]

than I will need this instead of the other
much more copper and iron

[median heath]

If you care about ore-per-ingot then there is a lot of reason to use Pure Copper.

[velvet jasper]

Ahh so you’re maxing the map?

[median heath]

Or just maxing a node. 🤷‍♂️

[velvet jasper]

It’s like 40 refineries for one 780 belt

[boreal cypress]

no, just dont want to have so many belts for copper and iron to "balance"

[velvet jasper]

Manifolds

[boreal cypress]

its 48 ref for 720 copper

[velvet jasper]

Exactly my point

It’s like 14 foundries or smth I think

For example the iron in speedrun canyon is enough iron for 12k copper

[boreal cypress]

im happy with 456 ref xD

[median heath]

Both recipes have their merit.
Honestly I think Copper Alloy needs a buff.

Because if ore-to-ingot is what matters, Pure always wins for copper.

Which is the inverse of how iron works.

Iron Ore-to-Iron Ingot ratio, Iron Alloy is uncontested the best option.
But everyone uses Pure for various reasons.

Personally, I think Copper Alloy should be a better ore-to-ingot ratio than Pure Copper 🤷‍♂️

But I won't deny the space-saving power of Copper Alloy.

[velvet jasper]

Agreed

The trade off is the absurd space and power requirements

[proven prawn]

Welcome to refinery simulator

[oblique hollow]

finally a good word over copper alloy from you

[median heath]

Good is a point of view 😛

[oblique hollow]

not trashing it is good enough for me

[median heath]

Just being accurate 🙂

[oblique hollow]

opinion on instant scrap?

[median heath]

Equivalent.

If you want to use Coke -- Sloppy>Electrode
If you want to use Coal -- Instant

Player choice.

[oblique hollow]

hrm, valid

[median heath]

That's legit how I view them.

[oblique hollow]

at least its not the ol sulfur argument

[median heath]

Meh.

You've got enough sulfur to make your own choices.

You're a big girl.

(Because pioneer woman 😛 )

[prime marsh]

(Secretly sulfuring inside)

[oblique hollow]

sulfur more

[median heath]

You really have to make intentional decisions to run out of sulfur tbh.

[oblique hollow]

turbofuel lmao

[median heath]

(Though if I heard correctly on the VOD, Mark said they might add more sulfur to the map...)

[oblique hollow]

more stuff in general, especially for spire coast

so its not just Oil coast

[median heath]

I've converted to just accepting how far Diluted Fuel goes.

[median heath]

Yeah, heard that.
Greeny has to redo his whole calc 😂

And all the "WP" fetishists are going to have to change their tables.

[oblique hollow]

actually no, greeny will have dynamic weights soon

so you can choose how you want it to be weighted

[median heath]

He'll have to update new max limits is what I meant.

[oblique hollow]

based on rarity, based on extraction limits, all equal or custom

[median heath]

And WP will shift all across the board if they add new nodes.

[oblique hollow]

i never cared bout WP, which is why i didnt consider them for my recipe summaries on the wiki

[prime marsh]

I doubt that’d be much compared to implementing a linear solver

[oblique hollow]

i go by local availability, which i also push in thos esummaries

[oblique hollow]

it already is a linear solver so

[median heath]

Neither have I.
Well, not in the same way.

Local weights is what matters to me.

[oblique hollow]

same

[prime marsh]

Was referring to this

[oblique hollow]

shouldnt be that hard for him either.

[median heath]

Exponential solver though 😉

Pun about overclocking

[proven prawn]

Imagine putting all of that work into it and then realizing you can make more power with less sulfur if you use nuclear

[oblique hollow]

considering the calc doesnt use fixed values, but derives them from the input section

[prime marsh]

||But that’s still linear||

[median heath]

If they add +1 Bauxite node to Spire I will be happy.

[oblique hollow]

• 1 new bauxite

• 1 uranium

[median heath]

Still fine by me.

Aluminium is my limiting factor 😭

[proven prawn]

or better yet the beta calculator uses packaged diluted fuel while using more machines and more powerful than the blender diluted fuel alt because why not

[oblique hollow]

how

[median heath]

How not?

[oblique hollow]

using pure or what?

[median heath]

What is your limiting resource?

[oblique hollow]

none

[prime marsh]

Time

[oblique hollow]

i never hit a limit xd

[median heath]

Build for 1 stack per minute of all 33 items on the storage list. 🙂

[oblique hollow]

aluminum big stack sizes oof

[median heath]

200 isn't that big.

[oblique hollow]

it is considering 500 is next biggets

[median heath]

Turbo Pressure at 50/min chews through a good amount.

[oblique hollow]

50 turbomotors / min

[median heath]

Only people who go higher are weirdos who automate Project Parts.

[oblique hollow]

i automate them for funny shopping points

also ADS is a pain but nice to look at

[median heath]

When you're making 1 stack per minute of everything, points is not an issue.

[proven prawn]

Just let more ISC's prefill with resources and there is no actual production limit in this game

[median heath]

Like, when storage is full, that's 50-500 of all 33 storage items just being sunk.

[oblique hollow]

peak satis: no sinks, store everything, use container items for production, finish game with never running out of ore

[median heath]

There was a point when talking to ZyRa I had an idea for something like this.
Because it involves yellow lights.

[oblique hollow]

arent you allergic to yellow

[proven prawn]

the thing with stack sizes, besides carrying resources, it basically doesnt matter as for linear production lines the only thing that matters is how fast you can supply the production lines per minute, so i dont get why stack sizes is like important, in only effects things like manifold prefill times and those are choses anyways so that doesnt really matter either

[median heath]

In this game, yes.
Which is ironic as it is my favorite color irl

[oblique hollow]

i had this dumb idea of a big recycling sushi factory

sushi stuff in, it gets fed into machines, eventually you get turbomotors or similar out

[prime marsh]

Like that one factoriohno post?

[oblique hollow]

dunno that one

[proven prawn]

thats actually how I do some of my production, its not dumb, its efficiency, because if all of my ISC's are full, and my resources and production items need to go somewhere, thats right make even more production lines

[median heath]

The idea was basically this:

Consider Iron. All of it goes down one line. First stop is Plates. Continually feeds Plates until that container fills.
When Plates are full, moves on to Rods until that container is full.
Same for Screws.

First complex item is RIPs.
Link Plate and Screw Containers.
After the first cycle, all the way back at the beginning Iron will stop going past Plates until Plates fills again.
Which means RIPs will run until Screws run out.
Plates will fill up, which will make Iron divert down to Screws.

I think you get the point. It would be slow, and very inefficient overall -- but it would legit never stop, it would just cycle between which base component it was building and that would trickle up the tree.

[oblique hollow]

yyyyyyup

oooor no containers, only machine buffers

for more funny fast cycling

[median heath]

Containers so that the player can grab what they need.
No need for storage mall because it's all built into the line.

[proven prawn]

I might actually go back to do more of the world poll method🤔

[median heath]

You'd also have differences of where things cycled based on cycle times and stack sizes ofc.

[proven prawn]

it was actually pretty fun, make as many machines as you need items in the game, supply all the resources, and then just wait and its gg because everything has been easily fully automated, i had alot of fun doing that method

[median heath]

@oblique hollow I may actually try this on my next run and see how feasible it is 🤷‍♂️
I'm sure at lower complexity levels it has solid merit for maximizing resources.

[oblique hollow]

aluminum stalls because water

i may try this too

[median heath]

Fluids is definitely where it breaks down unless you want to package everything.

[oblique hollow]

buffers lol

just 8 large fluid pipes that connect ALL fluid recipes

[median heath]

But from Plate/Rod all the way up to Modular Frames/Rotors I think this would be fine for "refilling storage" (meaning take the containers out and just use machine buffers).

[proven prawn]

you can wield pipes together also, essentially turning them into buffers also

[oblique hollow]

big pipe loops

[median heath]

Sushi Pipes 😉

[oblique hollow]

pseudo sushi pipe as the pipe is sorted but the machines are all scrambled

[proven prawn]

the only downside the buffer is only as long as you can run it straight without junctions, as soon as you add them the buffer is separated by them again, but still thats a fun method to use also.

but essentially you can make a buffer of infinite capacity, which is pretty cool

[median heath]

Packager running into Unpackager has been a far more reliable system for me than using buffers.

[oblique hollow]

i only use buffers for equalizers

[median heath]

Denzel Washingtons?

[oblique hollow]

yes

[median heath]

[limpid canyon]

Heyho! My Belts are actin curious lately..... Mk. II into splitter on two MkII belts. but they wont get even CLOSE to the half of/second.

[median heath]

Mods?
Multiplayer?
Dedicated Server?

[limpid canyon]

no/no/no

[median heath]

Did you build the splitter then connect belts, or did you build the splitter ON the belt?

[limpid canyon]

ON em, scrapped the "old belts" which made just to place the splitter in the heights and reconnected it with fresh belts afterwards

[median heath]

99% probability you have a mk1 stuck inside the splitter.

[limpid canyon]

sorry for my PITTY english, at first 😄

maah. ok, ll check that.

[median heath]

Don't build splitters on belts.
Build splitters independently, then connect belts.

[limpid canyon]

it was as you thought. splitter "cut" out its own "piece of belt", while each around was upgraded into mkII this lil part kept solo

never thought on theres still a belt "inside the splitter" 😄

[median heath]

👍

[limpid canyon]

nope, YOU earned those *thumbUp

[maiden marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/ill-remember-that-victor-garcia-jencarlos-canela-ashley-garcia-the-expanding-universe-gif-19248209

[small oasis]

Oddly enough, I've always done this and haven't had many issues with small belts in a splitter when I do just ad-hoc one onto a belt because I don't leave small pieces to miss on the eventual upgrade.

[median heath]

Yeah. Issues only occur during upgrades.
But if you put it on the belt and never change the belt types there will be no issues.

[small oasis]

builds with MK5 first then downgrades as needed for UPM limiting

[median heath]

Lol.

[small oasis]

... oh, also ... second output on MK3 miners when?

[median heath]

They haven't decided if that is the best way to fix the issue.

[tropic hawk]

Good question

[median heath]

It is A way to fix it.

[small oasis]

It's a kludge, to be sure, but ...

[median heath]

But devs either haven't reached consensus or they have and it just isn't priority right now.

[maiden marsh]

I spose building a splitter directly onto a belt is a non issue once you're laying nothing but mk5

[tropic hawk]

I would hope so

[median heath]

Still not a practice I generally advise.

[maiden marsh]

Why not?

[small oasis]

whispers Probably something to do with aluminum production.

[maiden marsh]

What about it

[median heath]

See above complications and you can search for every other time someone has had a "belt hidden in splitter" issue.

Can be entirely avoided by placing splitters then attaching belts.

[glossy sapphire]

And what is 2,666666666 m3 per minute?

[green mango]

my head isn't really with me today... if i have 10 belts comming in with random amounts of 780, 600 and 300 of the same item and wan't them to divide themselfs up into as many 780 belts as possible... how can i go about to set this up?

[median heath]

As many as possible or as few as possible?

[green mango]

let's say as many 780 as possible and if there is a belt in the end that does not fill to 780 i just sink the leftovers

[median heath]

As many belts as possible would be 1 item per belt...

[green mango]

full 780 belts 😛

[median heath]

So you want as few belts as possible if I understand what you meant to say.
In that case -- just make a belt condenser.

[meager shadow]

shouldn't be too tricky with a little math and smart splitters doing overflow, I'd usually just start from the left and add to source belts until they hit 780 until I run out of sources

[soft scarab]

Merge - overflow - merge - overflow

No math needed (I think)

[meager shadow]

the remainder kind of creeps around depending on pure/normal/impure that's the little bit of math 😄

[green mango]

there would be a bottyle neck if one of those overflows turned up merged with a belt alreeady having 780 on it tho

[soft scarab]

Well then don’t do that lmao

[median heath]

------- M --------
-------S-------

Splitter before merger so if it overflows it pushes on instead of stalling.
That's the nature of condensers.

[green mango]

then id need to add in that overflow somewhere tho

[soft scarab]

1. do you know the actual total input?
2. do you know which belts are actually already 780?

[median heath]

It's simpler if you know how much is on the lines.

[green mango]

yeah i could go the route of checking each belts source to see how much is on it but thats the thing i wanna build the machine thingy for so i don't have to and can just throw them in at random

i mean it shld be possible with the stuff we have but atm im drawing blanks as to how

[meager shadow]

you're looking for some sort of X#:Y# balancer then probably

[soft scarab]

Double overflow

[meager shadow]

it's probably going to be a lot more complicated than napkin math but it should be fun 😄

[soft scarab]

Merge - overflow - overflow - merge etc

You put an overflow on the overflow in case the merging target is already full

But that gets messy and takes more space

[meager shadow]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Balancer#Belt_balancer

[green mango]

yeah this is along the lines im at atm too

[green mango]

space ain't an issue. messyness tho....

[soft scarab]

I think just build and debug it

[median heath]

Compressor.
That's the word I was looking for.

Do a search for when ZyRa is talking about belt compressors.
He had images.
That's what you need.

[green mango]

hmm... searching for that i found Vencam's name 😛

not sure how thats related tho

[glossy sapphire]

Do you know what the % is with 2,66666666 m3 per minute? (Normal fuel)

[median heath]

https://docs.google.com/document/u/2/d/1_rXrJ8CWyjNExcayArby3HjRpDUXV5sd8QvFrdNZxBc/edit?usp=sharing

[green mango]

found it btw... really simple and exactly what im looking for.
one of those face-palm moments

[median heath]

Ye.

[green mango]

just place the overflow into the next compressor thingy and it will work itself out in the end

[median heath]

The 2 belt diagram in the photo would just have to be done again for each additional belt added.
But I'm also pretty sure it can be adapted for large-scale use.

That document I linked has everything you need if you didn't find it earlier.

Fluid compressor when?

[green mango]

yeah defenately, can stack them 3high and then make a compressor for the overflow lines of those stacks

and tnx for pointing me in the right direction 👍

[median heath]

👉

[wind spade]

👇

[gentle berry]

👈

[versed violet]

Automated miner recipe has no concievable use

Me, filling station inventory, so it can't store too much waste to reduce radiation.
[This will work if I set train filter, right? Riiight?]

[strong saffron]

Let’s say hypothetically I were to need 50 coal generators, would anyone know how many mk2 miners and water extractors would be necessary on base efficiency in order to fulfill this demand?

[versed violet]

Base efficiency as in not overclocking the miners?

[strong saffron]

Yes

100%

[versed violet]

mk2 miner on normal node mines 120 per min (you can check in buold menu) and coal generator needs 15 coal per minute

[strong saffron]

Thnx

[frosty owl]

What does the "recycling" part refer to?

[median heath]

♻️

[versed violet]

he attempted to simulate solar fusion in satisfactory

[frosty owl]

Eh, just avoid building them too close to conveyor poles (end of belt segments) 😆
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/u4wdfq/how_placing_mergerssplitters_on_belts_can_cause/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[hardy mountain]

if 45 is 100%, what is 40?

[prime marsh]

40=45x

[hardy mountain]

what

[median heath]

0.8888888888888888888888888888888-

[frosty owl]

45:100 = 40:x

[boreal cypress]

88,88%

so 89?

[median heath]

How dare you round 88.88888888888888- to a flat 89

For shame sir.

For shame.

[tropic hawk]

No, 88.889. get your significant figures right

[median heath]

Sif Figs was why I hated chemisty....

1.5 + 1 = ?

Me: 2.5
Teacher: No, you can't say that.
Me: Why the fuck not? I'm literally looking at 2.5 oranges.

[tropic hawk]

For me it was oxidization. And general amount of writing.

[prime marsh]

Clearly 3

[tropic hawk]

I also hated when your answer was right, but it was gotten the incorrect way, so marked as wrong

[median heath]

Apparently...

[tropic hawk]

Technically it's 2.50

[median heath]

No, the 1 makes it sigfig to just 3.

[tropic hawk]

Always one uncertain digit, and round to the thousands place

[tropic hawk]

Nope.

[prime marsh]

Day ruined

Figures, significant

[tropic hawk]

Glad I could help!

[median heath]

I'm telling you this is why I hated it.
If you wanted 2.50 for an answer, the question would have had to be 1.00 + 1.50

If you had a single digit, the answer had to be in single digits.
Whatever "round to thousands" rule you're referencing either hadn't been invented yet or just wasn't taught.

[median heath]

On this topic: I aced a test in Calc and the teacher tried to fail me because I didn't show any work.
Because apparently solving derivatives in your head is not allowed...

[prime marsh]

Gotta show that intense power rule math

[median heath]

Also needed to write anything your did on your calculator out to show what you did on that...

[tropic hawk]

My bad, I'm used to engineering math... Trusses are fun

[median heath]

Engineers are smarter than chemists if they have that thousands rule.

[tropic hawk]

If you want to be passive aggressive for this, show all your work... Including proofs for the standard math.

How to break a person without a PhD in math:
You: what's 2+2
Them: 4
You: Why?

[median heath]

Kek

[crystal charm]

for those of you who have large nuclear builds (32 plants or more), where do you build them in order to maintain that water supply?

[median heath]

Package and ship water in 😉

[crystal charm]

for real?

[median heath]

I've only done that once, lol.
But it is an option.

[crystal charm]

like, train line a crapton of packaged water in, unpack it, ship back empty containers, repeat cycle

wouldn't just training in liquid containers of cargo be easier?

[median heath]

Packaging let's you use fewer cars.

Long pipeline works too tbh.

[crystal charm]

but like, if i'm going for a build of 32, each needs 300pm

that's 16 pipelines

[median heath]

True.

Top used spots are west ocean and north ocean.
But north is getting fucked up in the U6 update.

So west either beside RD or Oil Islands is probably your best bet.

[crystal charm]

the west "ocean" is more like a lake, unless i'm thinking too far south

[median heath]

Too far south.

Oil Islands ocean and north is "west ocean"

[crystal charm]

i might relocate my building plans then

or, check into the viability of shipping in water for lols

[median heath]

If you do that, overclock the shit out of the packagers.

At least the UNpackagers.

[maiden marsh]

legit i can't even find the alt recipe for steel pipes on the calc website

[median heath]

Steel Pipes doesn't have an alt recipe...

Encased Industrial Beam has an alt called Encased Industrial Pipe... which is one of the most-used alts in the game.
(If that's what either of you meant)

[maiden marsh]

omg looool

i spent the last 6 hours hunting alt recipes. already had that one

check out the spaghetti i used to unlock all the tiers

specifically

[boreal cypress]

I always round up because its easier

[vapid gorge]

yeah sorry i wasn't more clear I guess? XD but yeah it's the Encased beam alt that makes the need to steel beams microscopic. Like after you get that you could probably just have an industrial container somehwere with steel beams and stop making them as a standard product

[maiden marsh]

yeah i thought you meant there was a recipe to make steel pipes, so i spent forever looking for them, up to 85 unlocked lmao and still didn't see em. figured something was wrong

[vapid gorge]

Well you probably got a bunch of other good recipes! Did you end up with the encased beam alt at least? XD

[maiden marsh]

i had that one since like tier 1 lmao

was one of the first ones i unlocked right after i unlocked steel encased beams

[vapid gorge]

Well at least you can kinda stop making beams now? You can pretty much stop making then unless you intentionally use a recipe that requires them.

It'd be basically at the point that if you DO need them, just make them at location

[maiden marsh]

yeah i've got a small setup at the other factory producing steel, so i can just swap em to beams and use this 117 constructor factory to purely pipes

not really positive what i need these for either though, just went with it because it seemed like it'd be easy. 3 iron nodes, 3 coal nodes. nope

[maiden marsh]

sorry for a ping. so the inflow of iron ingots allows me to create basically 780 ingots > 20 foundries.

But the outflow of ingots from that only lets me put 13 foundries on an output line. so should i just do 20 foundries per input and 10 foundries per output?

[median heath]

Uhhhh sure?

Your way of doing things is less precise than mine.

[maiden marsh]

i mean 60 foundries gotta go into 120 constructors, ish, so that would be an easy split. 10 foundries per 20 constructors

[vapid gorge]

It's the simple way of doing it especially since they aren't being fed some place that needs an precise number right?

If you want to max out the belts you could figure out how to clock them so that you get 780 per belt and have the left over feed onto another belt that's being fed from the excess from another foundry line right?

But I personally don't see the benefit in that unless you really need to reduce the number of belts going.

[maiden marsh]

yeah thats load balancing right?

[vapid gorge]

Load balancing is quite different

[maiden marsh]

i dont need a precise number, just the max number. so 780 isn't needed per belt necessarily, at least not at the foundry level. prolly will be needed on the constructor level

[vapid gorge]

It's just compacting lines as much as you can. Which IS a thing yo ucan do

[vapid gorge]

Maybe not even then because you can clock the constructors to use a precise amount right?

Planning things with a bit of underclocking gives you a lot of power and control

[maiden marsh]

the point of this factory is to just get it done. Once i do it once, i should be able to replicate that with the next factory, and that one i can make pretty. i am gonna do this like i do my videos, learn 1 new thing each time. so, saving the looking pretty for next round. atm i think 10 foundries per line, 6 lines, last foundry in each underclocked 25%

[vapid gorge]

sounds good 🙂 That sounds like a good steel factory you can replicate

[maiden marsh]

actually that last bit doesn't check out, lemme redo that

[vapid gorge]

19.5 for a full 780 line

so it'd be 9.75 foundries each line

[maiden marsh]

ok so i was right

[vapid gorge]

so 9 at full 1 at .75

for each output line of steel ingots

[vapid gorge]

And I'm not going to suggest you do this right now but this was a prototype I was using for a bit and might use again

Basically had the iron smelters directly under in a line and foundries above it

[maiden marsh]

compact af bro. does 1 smelter = 1 foundry?

wait you had to overclock the smelter

[vapid gorge]

In this old version no. But I might change it up since I like the idea of those buildings being outdoors as they produce a lot of smog

[vapid gorge]

I'd be tempted to clock them 1 for one in the next iteration though. I'll show you what I did for the latest pipe factory one sec

[maiden marsh]

this is what i settled on for now. the power shard way would eliminate 18 smelters, but require 59 power shards. so ill try that strat on the next setup

iron ingots coming in on the bottom, coal will be on top

[vapid gorge]

Not bad! for a bit of extra compactness you could have had the upper spliters sitting in front of the inputs and just connected them directly with lifts.

[maiden marsh]

thats a pain in the butt to build tho

[vapid gorge]

nah just stack them and delete the bottom ones

[maiden marsh]

oh, ill try that on the next set of 20

[vapid gorge]

90% of the cool building things you see in game rely on building 5 items and deleting the first 4 just to get the last in position XD

So this is a working modified version of what I showed you before... 2300~ iron ingots being smelted from 4 pure nodes. each stacked row is 1 node

going to put pillars on the end for support but its very much not polished. Just turned it on to work out the bugs in the 100 beacon pm system

[median heath]

Pain.

[vapid gorge]

why pain?

[maiden marsh]

i haven't automated beacons, what are they for?

[median heath]

Just looking at it.

Pain.

[vapid gorge]

uranium rod alt recipe

[median heath]

It's floating for 1..

[maiden marsh]

ah shit, i aint even messed with nuke yet

[vapid gorge]

thats temp 😛

Sev

[median heath]

Show after completion and hopefully less pain.

[vapid gorge]

Actually I'll link the rest is design channel more appropriate I think

[maiden marsh]

you using solid steel ingots?

[median heath]

He's using PAIN.

[tropic hawk]

Making beacons.

[neon wraith]

For just using max Uranium, You can make 50.4 Cells a Min, and if you make each Reactor go 250% you can run 126 Nuclear Reactors at once correct?

[thorn bane]

yep

[neon wraith]

cool, wanted to make sure my math was good

[quaint ridge]

I can't get my mind around this ^^ Is it possible to maintain a constant throughput using trains? A belt input 780 item/min in the station A, the train comes, take the freight, there is an animation during which the belt stops, the train goes to station B, there is another animation, then a belt remove the items from it at 780 / min... But because of the 2 animations during which everything stops, the overall flow can never be 780 item/min, can it ?

[fierce cypress]

just add buffers in the form of an ISC

here ^^^ @quaint ridge

[quaint ridge]

I'm not sure it's gonna change anything,I can put buffers at the 2 stations, the buffer on B is gonna suffer from the animations time too and empty itself in the long run, no ?

[fierce cypress]

no, because he buffer at A fills up for slightly longer, and therefore slightly more items are transported to keep it all running

it works

[quaint ridge]

wait

you mean a single belt comes in buffer A with 780/min, then 2 belts comes from buffer A to Station A at 780/min, and that's what solve the issue ?

[fierce cypress]

yes

[oblique hollow]

1 belt into container, 2 belts from container to freight platform

[quaint ridge]

Oooh I can see that working

so in case of fluids transportations

[oblique hollow]

package

[fierce cypress]

because even though the station wont accept items, the buffer still will, so it stores them while the animation is going. when the animation ends there are 2x 780 belts to allow for the ISC to drain

[quaint ridge]

hmmm packaging would be a pain in the a in my case

[oblique hollow]

then dont transport fluids

[quaint ridge]

but since it's water I can pump more to overcome the gap

[oblique hollow]

why transport water via train

there is nigh never a situation where you dont have more water closer to you

[quaint ridge]

I don't wanna pull loads of pipes over hundreds of meters 😄

[oblique hollow]

better than training for a few hundred meters

if its below 1 km, a train is a waste of time

[quaint ridge]

but it's much more elegant in the landscape 😁

[oblique hollow]

and also a nice waste of time. the train is slower than the pipes

[quaint ridge]

perhaps :p

[oblique hollow]

also, how much water even

[quaint ridge]

it's just for a nuclear plant

so around 10 000 m3

xD

[oblique hollow]

there is a reason people build their reactors above water

[quaint ridge]

I'm in the south of the map, in the grass field, I placed my foundations under the waterfall

[oblique hollow]

you will suffer under the combo of trains + satis fluid mechanics

[quaint ridge]

fck I don't know how to say that in English

[oblique hollow]

then dont

[quaint ridge]

I wanna build it in the "big hole right after the waterfall"

[oblique hollow]

the void?

[quaint ridge]

I was looking for a more geological term, but yes

[oblique hollow]

there is no geological term here, its a bottomless pit

[quaint ridge]

I don't know I've never tried to reach the bottom

[oblique hollow]

an abyss of nothingness

and you will never reach a bottom

because you simply die beforehand

[quaint ridge]

I won't try then

but ok, now I have the solutions for my trains so that's nice

thank you guys

[oblique hollow]

you said the abyss after the waterfall. isnt the water really close in that case?

like.... its a waterfall

[quaint ridge]

it's close, but not close enough

I went "far" down

and as I said, I don't like huge pipelines

big spiral trains tracks are so much nicer

[oblique hollow]

piping down vs building a huge slow train spiral down lol

[quaint ridge]

it's just sad cause then I can't really use them for a 99.9% efficiency world factory if they don't transport fluids properly 😦

[oblique hollow]

they do transport them properly, but doing any sort of big build breaks them because they hate junctions

[quaint ridge]

but you can't maintain the ~600 m3 / min if you count the loading animation of the train

[oblique hollow]

do the same shit as with belts

1 pipe into 2 ports

[quaint ridge]

there are no fluids buffers with 3 connections

[oblique hollow]

someones thinking in 2 dimensions here again

[quaint ridge]

^^

[oblique hollow]

why would you need 3

[quaint ridge]

that's how it works with belt, one goes in the isc, two comes out of it

[median heath]

?

[oblique hollow]

"because the buffer only has 1 input and 1 output"
is the wrong answer and wrong way of thinking

a buffer doesnt have just 1 input and output. it has 2 connectors.
thats 2 inputs AND 2 outputs

[median heath]

ISC can be 1 in, 1 out
1 in, 2 out
2 in, 1 out
2 in, 2 out

[quaint ridge]

Oh

Oooooh

Oooooooooooooooh

that's genious

[oblique hollow]

heres another tip: the buffer can empty or fill itself at 1200 m3/min.

you just need to use both connectors somehow

[quaint ridge]

yeah yeah I see it

I'll just have to rotate the buffers 90° ^^

well

again

thanks 😄

fck the huge pipelines, I'll go full trains 😁

and destroy that planet elegantly

If the animation lasts 25 sec, that means I need to store 600m3 * ~0,4 = ~240 m3 Sooo I can just use the small fluid buffer and that saves a lot of space, nice

[clever bay]

so if I'm making Thermal propulsion rocket 34.972
Assembly director system 271.790
Plutonium fuel rod 12.600 for max points....how much does that leave over in resources....

[median heath]

Imagine automating Project Parts...

[clever bay]

I'm going for a max point build.

trying to use all or as many resources I can to get the most points

oh whoa nvm

that's it, like that's all I can possibly make

[wind spade]

imagine not automating them

[clever bay]

wait @wind spade who made satisfactory tools?

[wind spade]

here's your max points build btw

and yeah, I made those tools

[clever bay]

wow! Thank you so much for your calculator man. I use it all the time. Thank you thank you thank you.

[clever bay]

yea I found some reddit post that had slightly different numbers. I didn't know you could just output max sink points!

[wind spade]

it's only in secret public beta, as it doesn't yet work 100%. You can get a tester role on the tool's discord if you want

[clever bay]

hmmm I might just take you up on that.......

I've got my plutonium set up done and my train network. Now I'm doing the slow process of smelting every node on site and then transporting on a main bus for each biome to a train station. Better on frame rate

so far I've got the desert biome halfway done.....god does that one suck

[median heath]

Which desert?

[clever bay]

the upper....right? portion of the map? the big big desert biome

[median heath]

There are 2 big desert biomes, lol

Upper right and upper left.

Dune Desert and Rocky Desert.

[clever bay]

dune desert!

wait aren't they right next to each other?

[median heath]

HMF outpost 😁

[median heath]

No. Canyon, Spire Coast, Northern Forest are in between them.

[clever bay]

hmmmm I'm gonna have to load it back up..... I've kinda been switching between planning the items and building the smelting array's

but yea according to these numbers.......it looks like all that's left is to do something with the limestone. nitrogen gas and coal

which limestone = wet concrete

[median heath]

Rubber Concrete 😁

[clever bay]

can't, using all the rubber/oil in the world lol

so yea wow there's like nothing I can do with the nitrogen gas and coal. Coal I can use for power I guess

[oblique hollow]

cant use nitrogen gas? are you even making cooling systems

[gentle berry]

For max points you make as many complex things as you can and just sink everything

[wind spade]

the thing I shared is the max possible 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

||Well... Ok... But for max points you make as many complex things as you can and sink everything ||

[gentle berry]

Really? You can’t sink any more items?

[wind spade]

you can't make any more items

[median heath]

[gentle berry]

Surely there’s some leftover items

[median heath]

You don't have any extra poly resin you can use to package and sink WATER? 😛

[frosty owl]

That's a solution found with linear optimization. It's mathematically the best coupons production you can get

[wind spade]

there's not

[gentle berry]

And all your miners and whatnot are clocked to 250%

[frosty owl]

I haven't seen the whole plan, but it's already at the point where it makes (some) NORMAL concrete to save on power

[wind spade]

these numbers are map-wide limit of what's possible to mine. Nothing more possible.

[frosty owl]

Unless mods

[median heath]

Mods 🤢

[wind spade]

unless slavery and your friends will pick up stuff from auto miners and put into chest

[gentle berry]

Wait. How do you power it all?

[frosty owl]

But then it's just about giving the planner different numbers to start with, not all that difficult :P

[wind spade]

uranium power

[gentle berry]

Oh right

The 126 or however many plants you can have

[wind spade]

215.568

[tropic hawk]

252 for me

[wind spade]

that's the number you need to power the setup 🤷‍♂️

[tropic hawk]

Is that including water?

[wind spade]

well it's not including miners and water, but there's more power produced anyway, so 🤷‍♂️

[tropic hawk]

I was confused so I read back. Thought you were talking about max power instead of max sink

[wind spade]

max power is this

[tropic hawk]

Is this the beta tool?

[wind spade]

indeed

[median heath]

Wow, no Biocoal? 😏

[wind spade]

I mean... max automatable 🤷‍♂️

[tropic hawk]

Ah, I was wondering where you got the functions from. I need to tinker with that eventually

[wind spade]

also this is what max power uses

[gentle berry]

ez

i dare you to make a bigger one

[wind spade]

you... literally can't

this is max power for a reason

[gentle berry]

Just burn plastic

[tropic hawk]

I dare you to think about your challenges to ensure it is possible before issuing them.

[gentle berry]

For power

[tropic hawk]

Not possible in vanilla

[gentle berry]

There’s a chance I just might consider considering that

Also whatever happened to geothermal

And biomass

[tropic hawk]

Fair enough

[tropic hawk]

Not automatable

[wind spade]

geothermal isn't implemented yet (also is irrelevant to calculate it's production, as it's entirely free). Biomass can't be automated

[tropic hawk]

Does the calculator have an option to use byproducts in alts before trying to use more raw resources? (Other than manually limiting the input)

[wind spade]

the calculator optimises towards lowest resource usage (configurable in beta). So if it's more resource efficient to use byproducts rather than making new stuff, then it'll do it

in beta you can also enable/disable which items can be byproducts

[tropic hawk]

Gotcha. Just checking

[upbeat tide]

Im gonna start dreaming about Satisfactory pipelines soon

Or going insane. Whichever happens first

[frosty owl]

~~420 reasons to place Nuclear Generators close to Water Extractors ~~

[clever bay]

blaze it

[timber mirage]

Anywhere this can be played with rn?

[frosty owl]

You need to unlock Patreon tier 69, then you get access to the beta.

[wind spade]

yeah, on discord server you can get tester role

[frosty owl]

(After you unlocked the Patreon tier)

[wind spade]

I only have one patreon tier and it's $1 because I couldn't set it to less

[median heath]

He's on OnlyFans now.

[wind spade]

my fiancee is on onlyfans

[frosty owl]

This is a conversation I regret starting

[gloomy palm]

So 2TW is currently physically impossible in the game just barely 🤔 or rather, in terms of automated power generation

It makes one think whether it would be possible to reach 2TW by supplementing the grid with the remaining 330MW using other power sources

[oblique hollow]

like what, biomass?

[gloomy palm]

😅😅

[oblique hollow]

good luck even using 2 TW

[gloomy palm]

Its just for the challenge really

Also does that number take into account overclocked power generators?

[oblique hollow]

gen overclock doesnt affect the outcome

[gloomy palm]

O

[oblique hollow]

only production machine overclock would

[gloomy palm]

doesnt it make more power when u overclock tho

[frosty owl]

Now I'm wondering... Would an optimization for max power usage be possible just for funzies or would it be complex @wind spade ?

[oblique hollow]

the amount of power per fuel stays the same. it just goes faster

[gloomy palm]

Ohhhh

?_?

[median heath]

I think you can get to it with Geothermal but I'd need to check.

[frosty owl]

There are no exploits of that sort in the game, @gloomy palm :P

[gloomy palm]

Ahhh

[median heath]

You have no need to even get 1 TW though. So hitting 2 is 😂

[gloomy palm]

Ahh, so like, when you overclock Nukes you're not actually raising the max power output?

The power per rod is the same

[oblique hollow]

yep

[frosty owl]

Every uranium unit - > Fuel rod yelds the same amount of power

[gloomy palm]

But isnt the max power a function of watts per hour

[wind spade]

would be, but would probably end up in giant cycle of packaging/unpackaging

[oblique hollow]

you just need less space / generators

you double the fuel burn time and power

[gloomy palm]

[frosty owl]

Oh... Right... :/
Maybe disabling those recipes...?

[oblique hollow]

if your car needs 50L of fuel for 100 km, its gonna likely need 100L for 200km

[frosty owl]

*halve fuel burn time

[oblique hollow]

right, halve the burn time, double the power

[gloomy palm]

But these numbers are all at 100% clock speed, you'd need less buildings if they were all 250% clock speed but you'd not be able to raise the power maximum because there's not enough resources on the map essentially?

[oblique hollow]

you need more resources for more power. period

overclock doesnt change that

[gloomy palm]

But youd use less buildings

[median heath]

Less buildings doesn't change the power output.

[oblique hollow]

yep. but the amount of power you MAKE stays the same

[gloomy palm]

I understand!

[median heath]

Overclocking only saves space when it comes to fuel gens.

[gloomy palm]

\o/

[oblique hollow]

it just changes how much you need to make it

[frosty owl]

Except when doing it for production machines, then you (currently) save/lose on power

[gloomy palm]

Oh?

[median heath]

Yes.
(You said you understood).

[wind spade]

it's about most power produced, not consumed

[gloomy palm]

I thought what i understood applied to every power generator building 😂

[oblique hollow]

overclocked a machine (NOT a generator) to 250% and it needs 400%(roughly) the power.

[median heath]

It does.
"Fuel" was not meant to be hyper-specific.

[gloomy palm]

Ohh

[median heath]

My bad.

[gloomy palm]

Understandable

[gloomy palm]

Is it a square function or somewhat

[oblique hollow]

x^1.6

[gloomy palm]

Hmm

Slightly less than square

Rectangular function

[frosty owl]

Btw... What about making power demand linear up to (numbers for example) 250% then implement a harsher exponential than the current one up to X% and maybe require additional research/more processed power shard?

[oblique hollow]

ugh not that again

[soft scarab]

Why

[median heath]

NO

[gloomy palm]

Im gonna say it doesnt sound like a very popular idea

[oblique hollow]

kill doggo farms, make OC linear, i honestly want it to be linear now just to upset the Non-linear simps

[median heath]

I'm fine with this.

[wind spade]

the "process shards to make them better" is a decent idea, but any linear OC just makes is a no-brainer

[gloomy palm]

Kill doggos you say?

[oblique hollow]

kill doggo farms

[gloomy palm]

[median heath]

My position has always been that infinite shards and linear clocking cannot coexist.

[cedar mica]

Even with linear OC, you still need doggo farms, as there is not enough shards on the map, currently.

[oblique hollow]

good

[gloomy palm]

so farms that kill doggos?

[frosty owl]

Stronger OC for additional costs interests me and it would still keep power demand linear for a good portion of OC.
The "extra" OC could be just for "expert pioneers" or later tiers

[oblique hollow]

shards not infinite? sucks for you. make a decision on what you want to OC

[median heath]

That's the point.
Limited shards with linear has a trade-off.
Has decisions to be made.

That's GOOD gameplay.

[gloomy palm]

Funny how last time i was here the same conversation came up again

[median heath]

Infinite shards with linear has no tradeoff.

Infinite shards with exponential does have the power tradeoff.

[wind spade]

there's enough shards for all miners and a few extra buildings

[oblique hollow]

its always the same recently

[gloomy palm]

XD

[oblique hollow]

like 600 extra shards

[cedar mica]

That would make it the only thing thats limited then.

[wind spade]

not to mention you're most likely not gonna use all miners

[oblique hollow]

umm... mercer sphere?

[soft scarab]

Power demand is linear at 100%, the only reason for linear vs nonlinear is choosing what the trade-off is gonna be

[frosty owl]

Second time I'm discussing this as the first time the idea got drowned

[gloomy palm]

math-and-meta
renames to
linear-and-exponential

[wind spade]

hard drives are limited

[oblique hollow]

whatever mercer and somersloop will do, it will be limited too

[cedar mica]

Story elements dont count, as we dont know how many machines we need for them

[frosty owl]

I don't see the relation to my point 🤔

[cedar mica]

There is more then recipes needed, so not really

[oblique hollow]

you got enough shards to overclock all miners, thats whats its most needed for

[gloomy palm]

If people say nonlinear does that always mean exponential or nah

[oblique hollow]

all else is a bonus

go on, make 600 particle accelerators. overclock them

[frosty owl]

Tbf, they could just be covering future recipes (or the number might be changed to match the recipes later on)

[cedar mica]

I would say framerate is the main current limit. OC lets you build 2x-2.5x bigger, with same framerate.

[oblique hollow]

imagine if they actually gave more recipes than drives

[gloomy palm]

Is locking calculations to framerate the most sensible way to do that 🤔

[frosty owl]

Which, I think, is one of the main points why CS want to buff OC (remove extra power demand)

[oblique hollow]

it already technically is

[gloomy palm]

Hmm

[soft scarab]

Still formulating but I guess I’m trying to say something like:

1. If you want more than 250% OC, that’s fine to want, but not clear why it would/ should have different trade-offs than <250% OC
2. If the linear switching to nonlinear can happen at anytime, it could just happen at 100% - but that’s the system we’ve got

[gloomy palm]

Shouldnt calculations be as fast as your processor can handle

[cedar mica]

Low framerate, comes from your system working hard, which increases chance of error.

[gloomy palm]

Hmm

[soft scarab]

Mathematically speaking, nonlinear does not always mean exponential. Log(X) is nonlinear and not exponential. But for the purposes of this discussion I think yes nonlinear is synonymous with exponential

[cedar mica]

It also limites certain things, like 780 belts not being full throughput if your frames are low enough

[gloomy palm]

Ahhhhh

[gloomy palm]

:o

[wind spade]

discussion was about what items are limited 🤷‍♂️

[cedar mica]

If you got more of the item, then you can use, is it really limited?

[wind spade]

you can die with hard drive in inveotry, chest spawns underground, drive lost 😛

[frosty owl]

Tiying the non-leaner OC to the "new clock" (that could be gated by extra tech) would make it so that one can OC "normally" up to a certain point, then, if they have enough interest in reducing machine count, they can spend the extra power and research/shards to have it
In other words, the "extra OC" (which I imagine as a locked extra slot at the end of the OC bar, adequately resized) could be ignored by new-mid level players just like OC may currently be ignored by new players

[cedar mica]

Unless its in an instant death area, you can get to it. Also, there is code to put the crate at last ground/foundation.

[gloomy palm]

Separate overclocking into early and late game stages?

Mhmm sounds a bit difficult to plan that ahead of time

[cyan spoke]

are there known material ratios for mega factories for t5/6

[wind spade]

still limited item 🤷‍♂️

[cedar mica]

Nope. As what people count as MEGA, varies a lot.

[cyan spoke]

ok not llike huge but a decent size one to make all items needed for this stage of the game

[gloomy palm]

But then like if you want to build stuff with mega factory in mind, in the end when you unlock the extra overclock you'd have to change around everything you did so far because you didn't account for the optimization opportunity

[oblique hollow]

ratio = whatever you want it to be

there is no standard

[frosty owl]

Sounds like the same as if you made your plans without unlocking all alt recipes

[cedar mica]

Its also a matter of how long you want to wait around. Some are fine with 1 machine making the item, others want as many machines as possible, making it.

[gloomy palm]

Ahhh tru

Is there a guaranteed amount of times you'd have to refactor your factory as you progress in the game?

[cyan spoke]

sounds like more of a beg an experienced player to join my game and show me the ropes of how to work out large scale factories than any cookie cutter input ratios then lol

[gloomy palm]

Refactor factory

Refactory

[frosty owl]

First define "have to"
But I don't think there is, too much personal preference involved

[cedar mica]

Depends on how well you know the game. You can build for final design, right away, if you know what you unlock later on.

[gloomy palm]

Ohh

[soft scarab]

No, you can probably just go somewhere new each time

[gloomy palm]

I seeeee

[soft scarab]

Try https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[upbeat tide]

Details? Like what your trying to make?

[vapid gorge]

If you're at this point it sounds like you're very early on and not really up for mega factory design tbh.
Go through the tiers a couple times. Build in different ways that you like because the way others build might not gel with you.

Learning basic logistic design for smaller factories is crucial and it's likely you will look at your first mega factory and go 'I could have designed this much better'

[vapid gorge]

Whoops tagged the wrong person in the above msg, it was for you

[maiden marsh]

how would yall split up 3 pure copper nodes

like what would you make with them

[vapid gorge]

From what I recall you were making tons of stuff and bringing them to a central deposit? Just make 1 thing with them.

Though most of what you want from them is sheets since you often have better choices for Wire AND you aught to make wire on site so just move ingots

[maiden marsh]

so do you think itd be better to make copper ingots on site and then ship those, rather than make wire and cable and sheets on site and then ship those?

[vapid gorge]

if you're doing centralising I'd do sheets and then go central, while wire/screws or screws is much better to make right where you need it

[vapid gorge]

but also I make wire out of iron sooooo

[maiden marsh]

whats the best recipe for copper sheets

is a pure copper 780?

[vapid gorge]

I mean depends what you want. There's only 1 alt for it. Steamed sheets.

Doubles efficiency but much higher energy costs and you have to deal with refineries

[vapid gorge]

all pure ore nodes max at 780 due to belts yeah

[maiden marsh]

damn triple copper node would be 78 smelters 104 refineries

[vapid gorge]

is that with the Pure Copper Ingot refinery recipe?

[maiden marsh]

oh.

wow thats overkill af, maybe ill just do one node

5840 copper sheets per minute lmao. how could i possibly need that

thats 416 refineries for the full process

[vapid gorge]

yeah who could ever use that many copper sheet per min >.>

but it all really depends on how big you're going. If you aren't looking to really maximise things you can just have several places creating sheets with constructors

And if that's the case you can ship copper and caterium ingots to produce TONS of wire on site

[worthy island]

4,680 copper alloy ingots. Then I'd sink them all because the next step is steamed copper sheets and I'm getting a bit bored of looking at refineries

[maiden marsh]

Yeah 416 refineries seems like one massive time sink. I may just do one node for now until I need to add another node. No idea how I'd even use the copper. I'm not even using the 2340 steel pipes at all yet.

[vapid gorge]

All depends on how big you go 😄

My uranium rod factory uses 756 steel pipes just on it's own and about 5000 copper ingots

[willow mist]

This feels and looks illegal

one steel beam to 52 screws?

[vapid gorge]

It’s a lot of iron and coal still. Best recipes don’t use screws

[noble agate]

Yeah, I was surprised to find out when planning for my mega factory, that you can produce every item in the game without using screws (apart from screws, obviously)

And that’s also what I’m going to do 🙂

[vapid gorge]

It's a good plan yes XD

[pulsar idol]

Does two normal iron nodes enough to make harden plates and rotors?

[worthy island]

With 60 iron ore and no alternative recipes you can make 2.58 of each

[pulsar idol]

Hmm

Thats not bad anyway

The modular frames I might put next to my iron plate production

And the rotors and plates near the two normal iron nodes

[maiden marsh]

guess when i bought this game

[short drum]

Lmaooo

[tawdry ravine]

technically, youre not using screws to produce screws

[wind spade]

also copper rotor best rotor so screws still valid

[noble agate]

I just want to screw screws

[frosty owl]

Transport whatever takes the less item-space. 1 ore usually becomes >1 ingot, so it's better to transport ore or higher tier products than ingots

[frosty owl]

Rotors would like a word

[small oasis]

Ok, now to fire up Satisfactory and noodle out what I need for a fully reprocessed and sunk nuke build. Since I have the power cue the 00's song ... dance break ... Anyway ... I also need to "burn-in" my turbofuel setup. I think I need a bit of a better balance in something somewhere, because I'm running it lean ... so I need to figure out what I need to change since I built it exactly to specs on the Tools planner. https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=qmctF1sB6R4EZ1Tld3t3

Yay ... debugging.

And beautification ... it's a bit ... elegantly ugly.

[vapid gorge]

Why would you make rotors with copper if you can avoid it :p

[frosty owl]

Cause it's quick (machine-efficient) and resource efficient ^^

[vapid gorge]

Coal and iron are far less of a bottle neck than copper though so in terms of value it’s less efficient

[frosty owl]

Subjective 🤷‍♂️

I feel coal is as "rare" as copper if not more

[vapid gorge]

If you try to use the world resources you’ll wind up with excess coal and iron, much less likely to have excess copper

I’m working with Pure Copper for everything and mostly Smelter Iron and there’s still so much iron

[frosty owl]

Again, that's a subjective point, depending on your production goals and recipes preferred to achieve it

[vapid gorge]

You’d have to have an extremely low tier item goal you’re making I think

[wind spade]

Because it's like 80% water

[frosty owl]

I disagree greatly 🤔

[vapid gorge]

Even with a plan including 315 HMF pm there is still SO much iron available. I’m not sure what you’d have to aim for to reasonably use all the extra iron

[frosty owl]

I didn't mention iron, btw~

[vapid gorge]

Even with the steel recipes for 315 hmf pm there is SO much coal on the map :p

[frosty owl]

Unless one needs a particularly high number of rotors and pasta , I doubt the copper usage would conflict with other productions

[vapid gorge]

Copper is extremely useful for the electronic parts and extending quickwire. Can’t with iron

[frosty owl]

Which is why I include copper rotor in my 190-30-30-60 plan
And there's space for bolted recipes too...

[frosty owl]

Literal iron wire...

[vapid gorge]

Iron doesn’t increase quickwire.
Copper effectively can be traded into caterium

[frosty owl]

Just like you "trade coal to make steel" 🤷‍♂️
There's plenty moar copper than caterium

[vapid gorge]

But that’s the thing, iron and coal are at the end of the totem pole in trading up

[frosty owl]

Personal preference, imo 🤷‍♂️
The balance between these recipes can't be defined as simply as "one is better", they're situational

[vapid gorge]

If you’re talking about specific locations as to reduce logistics and have more options sure. But on a global scale with volume available vs utility iron and coal is worth less.

Like if all resources were in one spot so the 80k iron along with all the copper and cat ect, they way to trade up Kronos objectively worth less unless you’re targeting low tier items

[wind spade]

Subjectively*

It always depends on end goal, not just resources available

If your end goal is max plastic, copper is worthless

If your end goal is max screws, copper is great

[vapid gorge]

I did mention the caveat of aiming for low production tier items on that

Like sure if your goal is a billion steel beams iron/coal is more valuable and thus the caveat. It just seems far less likely people would be focusing on those

[wind spade]

I mentioned low tier as an example, same is valid for high tier

[vapid gorge]

I haven’t made a proper numerical analysis but it seems pretty hard to avoid copper/cat for higher tier items.
Can you think of a situation not wanting to trade for more cat cop for high tier?

[wind spade]

I'm pretty sure there are late game builds lacking copper and there are late game builds having excess copper

[vapid gorge]

You can more easily be more free with copper by ignoring pasta but then you probably start aiming for electronics that start demanding it pretty aggressively.
I’ve aggressively cut copper everywhere for pasta but I’m pretty sure the other end parts need them quite a bit

[ornate shoal]

is this setup limited by bauxite?

[vapid gorge]

At a guess I'd say yes though I'm not 100% certain which number is which. I think it's probably.... Assembly directly - pasta - thermal prop- mag field?
Mine is baux/copper capped at 120 30 30 120

[ornate shoal]

this just seems so crazy to me. my plan of 0-48-0-0 is capped by copper, but i already struggle with finding good accessible bauxite nodes

[vapid gorge]

I think you can do 90 pasta if you go all out?

[ornate shoal]

i don't remember the exact number, but it was around 60 with pure ingot recipe. 48 is roughly max with alloy ingots

[oblique hollow]

well, just 20 pasta per min means you only need 50 minutes to complete the delivery

and 3 or so hours is something you can spare while you build other stuff

so 6 pasta per minute is a reasonable, good enough amount

[ornate shoal]

mine is a slow build. i don't even plan to complete other parts

i think the proper amount to plan for in that case also depends on the order of deliveries. you can probably get away with a smaller numbers for the stuff you do first

[oblique hollow]

likely

smaller number for the 5000 parts

meanwhile you do other stuff and boom

just 14 hours to make 5000 things at 6/min

[frosty owl]

Yes

[frosty owl]

Ass, mag, pasta and rockets

[median heath]

Ass 👀

[frosty owl]

190 ass/min ti be exact

[ornate shoal]

what are assembly director systems limited by? i don't think they require bauxite

i'm guessing copper, answering my own questions

[median heath]

The metric fucktons of wire they require... for one.

[frosty owl]

Caterium and quartz iirc

[prime marsh]

Wire they like that?

[frosty owl]

Supercomputers are expensive

[median heath]

They can require differing amounts of Baux depending on which Super recipe you use.

[frosty owl]

The amount of different choices in basic materials for ADS make them quite a flexible production, which is why one can push it up to very high numbers compared to stuff like Pasta or Rockets

[median heath]

But you need ACUs, which is Autowire + CB + Comp
And Supers (which can cost more Comps)

So yeah, limiting factors are most likely copper/caterium if you're trying to max ADS.

[empty glade]

Iron could be used to make copper alloy for fused quickwire

[median heath]

You don't get more from that.

[median heath]

Highest yield (copper ore to ingot) Copper Ingot recipe is Pure.

Using Alloy choosing to have less.

[empty glade]

Yeah, I suppose that's true vs. Pure.

[river chasm]

can someone check my math? im sure it's right but I want a second opinion:
I want to make 190 Electromagnetic Control Rods
that would require 190 AI limiters and 285 Stators
the stators need 576 steel pipes/minute, which would be 870 steel ingots, which would be, using the solid steel alt: 580 coal/iron ingots (using the pure iron alt, 315 iron ore)
the stators would also use 2160 quickwire, using the fused alt

the AI limiters would use 3800 quickwire and 1593.75 copper sheets/minute
if I were to use the pure ingot recipes, fused quickwire, solid steel, and quickwire stators (I know they use caterium but it saves steel and im low on coal), the total recourses consumed would be 993 caterium ore, 1000 copper ore, 1840 water, 315 iron ore, and 580 coal.

thoughts?

[oblique hollow]

according to the calc the stators need 855 steel pipes

[river chasm]

I thought the caterium stators used less, I guess I messed up somewhere

[wind spade]

QW stator?

[river chasm]

yeah

[oblique hollow]

ah, didnt specfy that

[river chasm]

I swear I did

[wind spade]

Second paragraph

[oblique hollow]

mentioning recipes used at the bottom

[river chasm]

my bad

[wind spade]

just like sftools

[oblique hollow]

right, its 570 steel pipes then

but still 855 steel ingots

[wind spade]

Or you can share the production tab xD

[oblique hollow]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=xEZenveAl7BmobHe9VMy

[river chasm]

I don't use the calculator to plan a factory, which I guess is stupid but it works for me

[oblique hollow]

its a way to verify your calc at the least

i do my own math too but then use the calc to verify

since its easy to mess up

[river chasm]

I found it hard to understand

[oblique hollow]

you enter what you want and how much

thats it

[wind spade]

Feel free to suggest what would you improve

[oblique hollow]

if you want to use certain alt recipes, enable them and disable the base recipe

[river chasm]

the spiderweb of machines was confusing but i'll try it agian

[oblique hollow]

your factory doesnt look any different

if the web confuses you, drag it around

[river chasm]

fair point

[wind spade]

You can drag'n'drop it to make it clearer

[river chasm]

it seems a lot different then when I last looked at it

[oblique hollow]

probably cause you used SCIM?

[wind spade]

Or you looked to different tool

[river chasm]

ohhh

[oblique hollow]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production
this one maybe?

[river chasm]

yeah

[oblique hollow]

yeah, dislike that one too xd

[river chasm]

the interactive map is great though

[wind spade]

I can't talk objectively about it xD

[river chasm]

this is pretty useful, thanks

[wind spade]

You can still suggest new stuff tho 😉

[oblique hollow]

quickly, before greeny does a new update

[river chasm]

how tf did I not find this before?

[oblique hollow]

blame google

[wind spade]

Beta is soon to be released 😛

[river chasm]

wow, a lot of my math was off

[wind spade]

It's in pins and #welcome

[river chasm]

I thought it and SCIM was the same thing

[oblique hollow]

if you wanna do math on paper, use conversion %

aka "this recipe makes 30 pipes from 20 ingots, so the conversion is (20/30), aka 66.6666%

stringing these percentages is a lot easier

cuz next example: "30 pipes make 12 stators, so thats (12/30)= 40% conversion

that means ingots to stators is 66.6666% * 40%, aka 26.66666%

if you have 16 ingots input, you do 16 * 26.6666% and voila, you get your output of 4.266666 stators per 16 ingots

thats how i do math in my sheets

you can also do the inverse to get from output to input needed, of course

just divide by the conversion %

[clever bay]

I have like....60% of the dune desert hooked up on a bus.....man that one sucks

just need to do the rest then figure out piping......

[vapid gorge]

Iron could ALSO be used for that right! And there's like 3x as much iron on the map as copper. Which was the argument

[visual grail]

IMHO, use iron for anything iron can be used for

[vapid gorge]

The main actual argument to NOT do that in cases is if you've chosen a location and have the option to use recipes that don't do that for much simplified logistics

Which is a fair argument

[median heath]

This is fair unless your goal is maximizing Copper.
Then you use Pure.

[visual grail]

Indeed, pure copper ingots give better yield than alloy

[median heath]

Opposite for Iron Ingots
But no one wants to talk about that.

[north cloak]

I need to know how to divide equally 3 lines of 780 evenly in 78

my brain is no braining

[vapid gorge]

Yeah just have it split 10 times, if you’re using 78 from each split it’ll self balance

[wind spade]

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

Extend as needed

[median heath]

You guys read that very different than I did, lol.

Because my first thought was 780/3 =/= 78

😂

[silver cargo]

time to build this beauty

[elfin wyvern]

That’s where I am too 😩

But doing a full iron/steel rebuild at the same time and more oil power to free up coal

[silver cargo]

nice

[upbeat tide]

I need to take a updated screenshot, BUT very close to getting 120 nuclear reactors operational!

[lime basin]

i started a 100nuclear reactors config. Everytings ready, i have to put reactors and water only, but i didnt calc with waste and plutionium. Now i'm a bit dissapointed since there's no recipe to get rid of plutonium waste so i stopped at 20reactors. 😄

[wind spade]

You can get rid of plutonium fuel rods

[vale berry]

sink it with the fuel rods?

[lime basin]

is it possible?

thanks

[vale berry]

It is, I learned the same lesson after starting my first setup

[wind spade]

You either sink plutonium fuel rods and go wasteless but have less power, or you burn plutonium for power and have more power, but store the waste somewhere at the edge of the map

[vale berry]

I had a lot of fun learning about radioactivity, I wanted to jump into it with no assistance and discover it's nuances on my own. I died a lot.

[upbeat tide]

This will over time be 252 reactors too.

And im currently sinking plutonium rods, but over time plan to use them in more nuclear reactors

[wicked tinsel]

Another idea to wiki maintainers

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Map could we get the color codded "this part of map will be changed" map they published some time ago here?

cant find it whenever someone asks for it and it would be very helpful to have it on wiki

[upbeat tide]

When someone asks usually just use this map to help

[wicked tinsel]

yeah, but there probably is also plenty of people who dont ask, but could check wiki

so having it there would be good

[upbeat tide]

Tru tru

[wicked tinsel]

this thing i mean, or its current version (this seem to be u4 one)

[median heath]

Change the 2 blues to green and that's the current one.

[wicked tinsel]

i guess