math-and-meta

[hushed badger]

everything in one place can get laggy

[weak saddle]

so...

no?

[hushed badger]

maybe

[weak plinth]

You can do that if you want.

I'd keep oil and aluminium separate though when you get to that

[peak echo]

layout of best 240 iron ore to cast screws anywhere?

[weak saddle]

alright pipes have been completed, so fa it seems to be working

[weak saddle]

how come?

im planing on making a tube cannon to the north east part of the map to make a i

reinforced plate factory*

[weak plinth]

refineries take a LOT of space, you'll see

[weak saddle]

oh

whats the best place for like a fuel factory?

will probably do plastic and rubber there too

[weak plinth]

where your coal plant is, is a pretty good place for it tbh

[weak saddle]

well

i kinda built over them

rip
is there a copy and paste mod?

[weak plinth]

dont worry there's plenty around there

[grim radish]

Guys I have to split 1 conveyor belt to 5. How can I make this?

[weak saddle]

i built over 2 pure nodes

rip

[weak plinth]

just manifold it

[weak plinth]

lol, gg. Still plenty around though

[weak saddle]

yeah

do you recon they could handle fuel and plastic production? or should i just keep it fuel

[weak plinth]

easily.

[weak saddle]

thanks

do you have any tips for building this?

[weak plinth]

for oil? I'd say just try it out yourself.

how far along the tiers are you anyway?

[weak saddle]

ill check in just a moment, planning this factory

tier 5

[versed violet]

is there a console command or video setting to make game render inside of caves when looked at from afar? The aggresive culling makes them painfully obvious

[weak saddle]

anyway i can make this look a little bit nicer? also you were right only 2 were needed, thanks

[queen island]

dudes, can you place 19 coal generators for 1 mk2 miner with 3 power shards??

[wind spade]

what's the purity of coal nodes and what's your max belt?

[queen island]

pure and mk3, im trying to get mk4 rn

[wind spade]

pure coal mine with mk2 miner can do up to 600/min, with mk3 belt you're limited to 270/min, which is 18 coal gens

[queen island]

so it was close enough...

ty very much

[frosty owl]

#satisfactory-memes

[frosty owl]

@echo pollen To make a 1:5 balancer (assuming your input belt is not full) you can simply make a 1:6 balancer and feed one output back before the first splitter. This outputs fifths but requires the input belt to be able to accept the "extra" items

Additionally, the split you have made delivers 50-50 to each side, thus 50/3 on each of the three left outputs and 50/2 on the two right outputs

[echo pollen]

ah ye makes sense

thats awfully simple 😛

[frosty owl]

On a sidenote, how did you set up the "throughput reducer" you made?
Those can actually hide some weird difficulties in design :/

[echo pollen]

lower tier belts and a smart splitter to prioritize one side

[frosty owl]

So you have (eg) 220 coming in, you smart-split a mk2 belt off and assume the remaining is 100/min?

[echo pollen]

No I was assuming infinite input and just using t1 belts to snag whatever I need

then work from that

[frosty owl]

So, like... Smart split 60+ (60* 2/3) to get 100/min?

[echo pollen]

no not entirely

but I realize I am making things needleslly complex

[wind spade]

indeed you are, since you're doing a balancer 😛 😄

[frosty owl]

I think you're talking with the right person when it comes to needlessly complex things

[echo pollen]

Ha did spot my talks about sorting center earlier? XD

I suppose this could work fine with about 400 less smart splitters too 😛

[frosty owl]

But jokes aside, the point I wanted to make is this:
When trying to limit the input of a belt to a set amount/min, there are difficulties that aren't obvious. What I was referring to in this case is when you try to get an exact amount by "merging back" some on the input. Example: have 480/min, smart split 120/min and merge it back with the input belt to get 360/min. Simple enough right?

Wrong.
If the input belt is full, the MK2 belt trying to merge on it will (slightly) back up, meaning you'll ha e MORE than 360/min going down the line.
The more you know... ~

[echo pollen]

I thought about that

[frosty owl]

No, sorting for storage is one of the few sushi-topics I avoid for some reason 😅

[echo pollen]

but assuming the merger takes in equal amounts from two sources, I figured It would easily take that 120 from one belt before backing up

[frosty owl]

That's not a safe assumption to make. Lemme dig up the video, it shows quite well

(I used to make the same assumption)

[echo pollen]

We need priority mergers

[frosty owl]

https://youtu.be/v4j8pw7L5b8

[echo pollen]

But isnt that because of the lower tier belt here?

this actually makes sense to me because the belt isn't fast enough to get its 'reserved spot' so its given to the other input

[frosty owl]

The belt I modified in the video is (in our example) the 120 line trying to merge back with the input that "shouldn't back up"

[frosty owl]

Which means that if the input belt isn't full, the merge should happen safely

Ofc, that's assuming that all maxed out belts are just one segment long due to the max throughput bug

[echo pollen]

if two equal tier belts feed into one merger it will take equal amounts from both belts if they are both saturated right?

[frosty owl]

Equal tier AND both full
These are the prerequisites

[echo pollen]

and if one is only a third feeding back, it will obviously not be 50/50 because the one feeding back doesn't have enough for that, but I see no reason why if both are the same tier, the belt with less resources would be the one backing up. And frankly, your clip showed that didn't happen right?

only when you lowered the tier stuff started to get weird

[frosty owl]

At the beginning of the video, the smart splitter outputted on a mk2 belt (full) that fed a MK3 belt (half full) that merged back with the input (with plenty of leeway if the items back up even for an instant)
After I modified it, the mk2 belt fed another mk2 belt into the merger. This means that ANY backing up that occurs during the merge has no way to be compensated and immediatly reflects in an item reaching the overflow container (none did when half the belt was MK3!)
Ofc, one can just replicate the setup to see :)

||Imagine having 12 manufacturers making encased Uranium cells that keep on filling with uranium when they shouldn't thanks to the balancing and you can figure how annoying this can be 😆 ||

[echo pollen]

so the higher tier belt functions as a buffer that makes sure each reserved item spot is being taken right?

[frosty owl]

I wouldn't word it exactly like that, but yeah...

Yeah, ignore my issue with semantics, you got the idea right I think 😆

[maiden musk]

Would it theoretically be possible, with infinite nodes and power shards, to produce every item in the game at 780 per minute?

[hazy saffron]

if you have enough input material there's nothing stopping you from doing that

[maiden musk]

at 100% efficiency for every building?

or is that impossible

[hazy saffron]

yes? why wouldn't it be possible?

[maiden musk]

no idea

[echo pollen]

Because your computer will crash

[maiden musk]

with the best computer that can be bought and at the lowest settings?

[hazy saffron]

if we assume that the cow is spherical and in a vacuum; yes

[frosty owl]

Not for some space elevator parts nor nuclear fuel rods

[maiden musk]

ok

would the computer crash from too many manufacturers

[hazy saffron]

the consideration of infinite nodes was given

I assume that means you can pull as much resources as need out of the ground

[frosty owl]

60/min is a feasable goal (and still very close to max on most items) for all but nuclear items

[maiden musk]

or maybe it would need so many nodes it would reach the world borders

[echo pollen]

no space is not going to limit you

[frosty owl]

Imo, if one manages to keep logistics optimized and doesn't decorate, max ore usage (efficiently) should be achievable

[echo pollen]

but as a wise man once said, you will run out of frames/s before you run out of anything else

just imagine all the belts with raw resources that have to move for this to work

[frosty owl]

Yeah, I'm saying a good enough PC should eb able to run such a save
I purposefully said nothing about how well it might run, FPS-wise, but I think the game simulation should still be good ||enough||

[maiden musk]

what is the slowest you could make something

[frosty owl]

||"Good enough" as in: the only practical issues would be a greater reduction in max throughputs, which can be accounted for||

[maiden musk]

slowest per minute

is it possible to make something at less than 1 per minute

[frosty owl]

There's quite a few items that are made at less than 1/min
Then you could even underclock....

The lowest I can recall on the fly is plutonium rods, at 0.25/min

[cold owl]

Uranium fuel:0.2

[frosty owl]

Standard recipe, right?

[cold owl]

100% on the mfg

Supplies 5 reactors at 100% efficiency

[cold owl]

Yup

Lowest pm rate I’m aware of

Although to be honest the plutonium (due to complexity) should have been set at a lower rate IMO.

[frosty owl]

Uranium fuel is made at 0.4/min though 😆 (checked the wiki)
Apparently, plutonium rods (standard) actually ARE the slowest recipe there is, with a cycle of 240s for one rod. The second best place is held by the standard uranium rod recipe at 150s for one rod ^^

[cold owl]

Ok fair b I didn’t consider the cycle time in the construction.

Sleepy brain is sleepy

[frosty owl]

I feel like it's fine. It takes little more than half the radiation-processing machines at the very least, compared to the uranium production needed, even in the case where you're making the lease plutonium possible

If you want to push for plutonium, I think the humber of radiation-processing machines for plutonium may get higher than for uranium....

[cold owl]

Probably. It just feels like the elimination of waste processing should be more time costly considering how complex the problem is in reality.

[frosty owl]

"Reality" as in IRL?

[cold owl]

Yar

[frosty owl]

Meh. That's not a point I really care about when thinking about recipe balancing tbh 😅
I prefer to reference the already established game logic (though vague since the game isn't finished yet)

[cold owl]

Maybe that’s what’s triggering my OCD. I can’t yet sense any game logic in that chain. I do realize it’s a very new endpoint so as a favorite fictional character would say I will see when “waiting is filled”

[wintry aurora]

Really? Mostly we just store it somewhere, sometimes underground.

The longer term stuff at least.

[cold owl]

In my world the handling and precautions and longevity are the very definition of complex

[wintry aurora]

Oh I see what you were getting at.

[cold owl]

We’re creating problems our descends will deal with for generations.

[oblique hollow]

what doesnt make sense about plutonium processing?
the fact that "accelerator goes wheeeeeee"?

[cold owl]

The ease and relative short time investment of the overall waste to sinkable plutonium.

Plus……. Accelerators go Wheeeeeee

[oblique hollow]

its not that easy considering the investemt.
nitric acid, silica, concrete, more sulfuric acid, aluminum parts, steel...

most processing in the game is roughly just 4 steps until you are at your product.

bauxite to ingots is 3 steps.
uranium ore to rods is 2 steps
waste to plutonium is 3 steps

[ebon crater]

after 3 hours on the original spreadsheet, and another 4 to redo it using difrent alternates, it is complete

[versed violet]

@ebon crater This is my take
[blue and magenta not built yet, magenta is ip]

[ebon crater]

wow thats real difrent

did you use xcel for its true purpose?

like did you use the functions and whatever

so is that 18HMF/min?

[versed violet]

My most awesome functions are divide screw machines by n and multiply by q, to figure out how many steel beams are needed.
Then round them up to nearest whole number 🤣

[ebon crater]

ah lol

[versed violet]

nope, 50.4.
The 18 is what I have left after satisfying the demand of the other factories... been running in deficit for a loooong time

[ebon crater]

oh damn

my 16 looks puny now

[versed violet]

I just went and grabbed 3 pure coal + iron nodes.

sitting on this couple weeks now.

[ebon crater]

but thats probably on mk3 miner and mk5 belts right?

[versed violet]

ofc

[ebon crater]

thats my struggle

im limited by my coal supply

1680/min

that gets me around 2520 steel

and im utilizing 2514 out of the 2520

there is literally no way for me to expand

[versed violet]

grab more coal.

[ebon crater]

the goal with this factory is to keep it centralized

and to use trains for export

[versed violet]

that will end in lagg

[ebon crater]

oh i know

[versed violet]

I ship steel by train. And prepared the buildings so I can just add another layer on top and double the production when needed

[ebon crater]

but im keeping everything in one area, meaning no bringing in stuff with trains or conveyor belts

nah its one megafactory

42 foundries,

over 100 constructors

its gona be fun

i've actually seperated the entire spreadsheet into two factories

but both factories will basically be within each other.

just difirentiating between what needs steel

and what doesent

so for example, rifle cartridges will be in the steel area since steel pipes

[versed violet]

wait till you have separate sheet per factory

[ebon crater]

but beacons required for the rifle cartidges will be cut off from steal because no steel

[ebon crater]

oh no

crazy how it went from

this

to this

[ebon crater]

200 steel, what puny numbers

[versed violet]

so you are not actually using the calculation sheet for... calculating?

[ebon crater]

and i also fked up the math it was actualy 25% on the HMF's so it made 0.5/min

[ebon crater]

huh?

no thats just saying how many of each building and where it goes and what is produced at what rate and what is needed at what rate

i did all the math in my head and on calculator

and also what raw materials i need

[versed violet]

uh, I don't know how to break it for you, but excell IS a calculator. You type equals and numbers, and it does the math. You can type cell adress and it uses that value.
Bah, it can even solve optimization questions like `I need this factory to use exactly 100 copper and 100 caterium to make x wire, find me the proportions for fused wire'

[ebon crater]

right i know lol thats why i asked if you used functions

but i enjoy doing the numbers myself

and i know its inneficient

but 1
im too lazy to learn how to excel
2
i enjoy making the spreadsheets myself

[versed violet]

I use excel to do the math, so I can quickly see which recipe chain I like. Would take ages othwerwise ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ebon crater]

it does

[hazy saffron]

there is nothing I hate more than excel

[ebon crater]

like i said, 7 hours haha

i just use the wiki and my head

figure out what i want to make as end products

try to future proof by seeing, for example, how to make fused frames

then work backwards from there, and add more items/min if i want to, for example pipes

[ebon crater]

its all(mostly) centralized

[versed violet]

whats that thermometer up top? Oil?

[ebon crater]

thats where the factory is gona be

i was just messing wth trains last night

i coulnt finish the highway due to lack of encased beams, rods, and concrete, but i didnt wana go back to my base

[versed violet]

There is a nice personal drones mod for that, I use it extensively at current site to avoid walking

[ebon crater]

yeah i dont wana dabble into mods just yet

my base was a 3 minute drive

i just didnt want to at 11:48pm

[versed violet]

I am too lazy to fly 2m to nearest hypertube transit point

[ebon crater]

haha

[soft flume]

i just looked on hear and iv got a head ache

[vapid gorge]

Can you pull a train with 5 full cars up a 4m foundation incline with 2 locomotives?

[north crest]

I don't think you can have two locomotives on one train facing the same direction

[vapid gorge]

Oh I know you can do that. Just don’t have access to the formulas for a while and trying to plan

[signal nimbus]

@vapid gorge I am almost certain you can do that, and I'm 100% certain you can have two locomotives on one train facing the same direction.

[vapid gorge]

Coooool. Now that I’m thinking of it think it’d work for 6? XD I hate having horizon spanning inclines

[signal nimbus]

I believe the ratio is either 1 locomotive to 4 full freight cars, or 1 to 6, but I can't remember which atm.

But with two, you're almost certainly safe with only 6.

[wind spade]

on flat ground it's even more

[signal nimbus]

^^

Think on flat ground there's technically no issue with using only one locomotive, except acceleration.

[oblique hollow]

check the freight car wiki page for more exact ratios

[vapid gorge]

At work and having to sneak discord as it is XD

[versed violet]

@ebon crater
The factory build is progressing, all is left is to finish the HMF cube, add Encased pipe building and concrete suplly near water.

[ebon crater]

nice

did you build that pre-update 5?

[versed violet]

Nope, recent build

[ebon crater]

cry

its not on the world grid

[versed violet]

I will be coming for the coal nodes at your loc some time later, so don't use all of them up 😈

[ebon crater]

uh oh

what if i did

[versed violet]

I don't think I have any building on the world grid.

[versed violet]

I will press F 😁

[ebon crater]

that hurts me emotially

[ebon crater]

pls no 🙏 i spent too much time on this

[versed violet]

Will not be anytime soon, until then you probably make a nice big factory that maxes them out

[ebon crater]

i hope

[dense cave]

how do you make these maps? uploading the save to that website?

[ebon crater]

yup

[wheat tundra]

I have over a half container filled with Non Fissile

Normally, two machines would consume 20 U waste per minute. And those machines would have same clock setting, e.g. 40%

I wanted to drain container over night, without stalling out power production after it runs down the container in maybe 3 hours

I guess I need to set up ratio to consume it at maybe 1/4 the normal rate

Target is 20 Uranium waste / hr

I think at 100% 25 waste -> 100 Non fissile; and 100 NFU + 25 UWaste -> 30 Plutonium pellets

I gave up, it was too much work for 11:30 at night after playing in a chess tournament. I think it can be done, but it's tricky to consume exactly 20 uranium waste, while consume more NFU than I produce

[umbral jacinth]

thats some big brain shit

[rancid pecan]

should this work ?

[wind spade]

most likely

just 780 belts are a bit problematic when longer than 1 segment

[rancid pecan]

problematic?

[wind spade]

they lose max throughput

so you can only get e.g. 750/min out of them if they are long

[rancid pecan]

too late for changes now so it has to work

[wind spade]

it won't 😄

as long as the belt is longer than one segment it will lose some throughput

[rancid pecan]

i just up round everything by one so it has to work

[wind spade]

so you won't get full 1560 out of it

[ornate shoal]

what is a fusionator?

[fierce cypress]

merger

[rancid pecan]

idk how its called in the english version

[rancid pecan]

yes thats it

[ornate shoal]

oh, ok

[rancid pecan]

its just the entrance to my semelters for solid steel so only getting 750 steel per row out should still work

[tight roost]

Hey guys im struggling to get my steel beam production to 100%, can somebody help?

[echo pollen]

@wind spade is that problem only with 780 belts? and does it degrade even furtur? and is it only belt to belt connections or also belt to splitter to belt?

[wind spade]

it's with all belts, but since it's relative to belt speed, it isn't as visible in lower tiered belts. It does degrade with every segment (if you hover over belt with deconstruction tool, it'll show you what's one segment). It degrades on every connection iirc (but if you do one segment -> splitter -> two belts, you should get 780, problem is segment -> splitter -> one belt or belt -> belt).

I'm not sure if there's a cap on how much it degrades, since even pretty long belt (e.g. most of the map) can do ~730/min (idk the exact number, I just know someone tested it), so you won't run into situations where you will get less than 750/min, unless you do really long belts (use trains instead, they are cool 😛 )

[echo pollen]

so basically never design around the theoretical max of belts

[rancid pecan]

yeah i am fucked my complete smelter is build to work on 780

[echo pollen]

and try to split up belts that come from any resource extraction point asap

[frosty owl]

Only expect max throughout for a single belt segment

[wind spade]

yeah, at least not mk5/4s. For mk1s it can go down to e.g. 59 if it's a bit longer, but that usually doesn't hurt much

[frosty owl]

Note: there are ways to "weld" belt segments together into one and workaround the issue, but it's not suggested for long belts

[rancid pecan]

does it degrade with every added segment?

or does it just stop at 750

[frosty owl]

Theorically, there's no lower limit

[wind spade]

practically noone tested it below like 720 iirc

[rancid pecan]

[insert f*ck Mem]

[echo pollen]

hmm if its relative to speed and t5 degrades from 780 to 750 you would expect t1 to drop to 58 instead of 59

[wind spade]

so it's possible at some point it just stops

but for most "normal" belt lengths you can assume it goes down forever

[frosty owl]

Practically, I doubt anyone had the game run so bad they got lower than 700/min
Tgough,if one really wanted, maybe a belt sneaking around the entire world a few times could probably go below that, but that's quite the spefici example, ain't it?

[rancid pecan]

see ya guy i will be now reconsturcting my complete resouce destribution

[echo pollen]

running around the world in the smallest possible segments

[wind spade]

another reason why building at nodes is better 🤔

[frosty owl]

AND with not even a splitter/merger on it (they can "fix" the issue)

[wind spade]

there was a screenshot/video explaining how you can make one segment out of two somewhere

[frosty owl]

Search for "welding" 😉

[rancid pecan]

how uch does it degrade if i say i have a ress node at north end of dessert and am transporting the ress to south dessert

[wind spade]

it depends on pc, fps, what you built in the save and position of the moon

[frosty owl]

Praying 3 times a day to LGIO helps reducing throughput losses

[rancid pecan]

i really do NOT want to rebuild all of this

[wind spade]

well you can just put overflow splitter at the start of each miner and merge all the overflows into one "overflow" belt

so you'll have one extra belt going in

[rancid pecan]

i will try that as soon as all the interior changes are done

[obtuse elm]

Add a layer of belts and the first stretch of belt from the miner connects to a splitter halfing the line. Merge after the first half/dozen smelters to fill in the line? As isn't the connection points what slows down the throughput?

Haven't tried this but theorized it from comments.

[rare surge]

IRT mk5 belts throughput: the issue is moving items from one belt segment to the next.

The theory is that since belts don't have an input buffer you are at the mercy of timings where to get full throughput you need, on the same cycle that a belt frees up a slot, an item ready to be moved from the segment feeding it.

All belts are susceptible to a drop in throughput as a result. Its just the lower tier belts have more attempts(via game cycles) to grab a new item to fill the empty slot before they exhibit a loss in throughput.

Single-segment into splitter/merger/container into single-segment output does not exhibit the loss of throughput as items get buffered.

[rare surge]

Its (again) theorized that one of the ways CSS could mitigate the issue is giving each belt segment a 2 item input and output buffer

[cedar mica]

Its a simple way to test, which has been done before, "belt storages". Place storage - shortest belt - storage - shortest belt - storage and so on

[rare surge]

Thats what this discussion was about. The tests that were performed and the results. The last line of the above is what was discovered through experimentation: Segment -> buffer -> segment does NOT show the same loss of throughput as using just segments.

[cedar mica]

Did any of the buffers stock up items?

[rare surge]

IDK, I wasn't the one performing the tests. I saw the results and discussion related to them.

[cedar mica]

Because if the items didnt not pile up in a buffer, then the issue is not buffers but rather items getting lost in calculations between segments

[rare surge]

If you mean items completely getting removed from the world, that was addressed in the discussion. you do not lose items when throughput of mk5 belts drops. Items are not being deleted.

[cedar mica]

It can be the same issue as the perfect ration manafold, not sending items perfect to the last 1-2 in line

[minor sluice]

I like to think CSS knows what the issue is, and that fixing it isn't as simple as giving conveyor belts buffers.

either that or giving them buffers would completely break something major and so they have to try and find another way to fix it

[rare surge]

Buffering doesn't solve the throughput issue, just mitigates it. That is buffered segments see less throughput drop than unbuffered. CSS has stated that its a complex issue related to threading and thread syncing aswell as some factors they have yet to pin-point.

[radiant yoke]

how to evenly split one conveyor into 5 outputs?

[wind spade]

either using a 1 to 5 balancer or just using a manifold and waiting a few minutes

[oblique hollow]

1 to 5 balancer = split into 6 and feed one belt back to the main input

[radiant yoke]

balancer?

lmao only tier 6 rn

ah wait I'm dumb didn't read

thanks

[radiant yoke]

I never thought of merging back like that, damn

[rare surge]

For non-full input belt, you'll see throughput reduced by 1/6th. For full input belts its a non-issue.

[hazy saffron]

there won't be any throughput reduction

that 1/6 being routed back is being put back into the splitter

[rare surge]

non-full input = 1/6th of your possible outputs is getting put/cycled back into the system

[hazy saffron]

that does not reduce throughput

[rare surge]

You end up with 1/6th of your input looping between merger -> splitter -> splitter -> merger. assuming a constant (but not fully compacted) input

[hazy saffron]

if you put 600 items/minute in; you'll get 120 items/minute out on each of the output belts

there is no loss in throughput

that 1/6 being routed back does not make material magically disappear

[rare surge]

Thats true, and overlooked by me.

I guess my thinking is more so that the 1/6th delays peak throughput :/

[hazy saffron]

there is a delay but it's negligible

[flat loom]

so ive got a Caterium node that 800m away from where i need it to be. would it be more efficient to use trains or trucks?

[radiant yoke]

I would say trucks, since you don't need to build a lot of infrastructure and stuff

but trains could work too

[vapid gorge]

Less than 1km I strongly consider a belt if I can hide it around the terrain?

[dense cave]

Meh, just belt it. Trucks are a bit glitchy no?

So Ive been thinking of doing my nuclear power plant in that middle area lake that is in the center of all 3 sources of water. Only thing is...I don't think its enough water. Is it best to just set up rail system and take it to the ocean and build ovethere?

[rare surge]

Really depends. what are needing from the middle area, the uranium? If so, maybe drones instead of train if you got the infulstructure.

[bitter tree]

Little late to the party with that 😄

@radiant yoke See above

[radiant yoke]

I already built the other one shown by sreject

[bitter tree]

It will split to 1 and 5, from there, go to 2 and 4, then both go to 3

[radiant yoke]

yea but that clearly doesn't split it evenly

[bitter tree]

OK, maybe in the future for a different build : )

It is an overflow bus (or whatever the terminology is), but has it feeding from both ends.

[dense cave]

ah interesting, I didnt think about using drones to move stuff around. I wonder how many I will need and what the consumption of batteries will be like

[rare surge]

Yea the above isn't a balancer. that thing splits in ratios of: 25 : 12.5 : 25 : 12.5 : 25

[bitter tree]

It should still work though.

[rare surge]

Im not too familiar with drone mechanics, so probably best to research/experiment yourself

It shouldn't be too hefty an ask to go from uranium to coast and back. Kibitz managed it which is why I gave you the suggestion 🙂

A Drone consumes a minimum of 4 Batteries per trip plus 1 Battery per km of flight distance.

This is for round trip

[dense cave]

interesting

thanks man

[vapid gorge]

@dense cave one of the things about drones is that they have significant landing and take off times that reduce throuput great the shorter the distance travelled. It can be awks on short trips

[dense cave]

ok cool

normally if Im doing short distances I belt it. In this case though I am trying to figure out where to place my nuclear power

[rare surge]

For short trips this is a different conversation. Belts vs something else 😛

[vapid gorge]

Are you planning on converting the waste?

[proven prawn]

wrong actually you can do the math perfectly and balancers can still fail, because of inconsistency in item delivery on belts and burst inputs amounts, amounts, this can happen regardless even in cases when the balance is perfect and the math is correct, I have unfortunately came across this issue, only solution is having something a call a variable input manifold balancer, its kind of like a balancer and kind of like a manifold, odd things but do to the way items travel on belts, etc I have found such designs increasingly necessary to get predictable behavior.

[dense cave]

Going to make the plutonium fuel rods and sink them

[vapid gorge]

Plan out what raw resources you need for that and scout the map for a good locatoin with minimal transport needs then

[dense cave]

Just did all the math, its a long chain but for a single 600/min uranium extractor, I need 15 (10 primary+5sec) blenders, 22 manufacturers(12 primary+10 sec), 5 particle accelerators (secondary), 15 assemblers (secondary) and 24 nuclear power plants

only alt recipe I have right now for this is the Fertile Uranium

[vapid gorge]

I honestly wouldn't develop a nuclear/plutonium chain until I'd gotten all the alts I wanted. It's just so long and would be frustrating to change it later

[dense cave]

what other alt is suggested though?

[vapid gorge]

It really depends what you want long run? Like... do you think you'll need a bunch more power later?

[dense cave]

not really, dont plan to max out the world

its why im sinking the plutonium fuel rods

[vapid gorge]

You can probably max the world w/o plutonium power anyway.

Well I like the Infused uranium Cell alt because it reduces sulfur use and doesn't need the complicated sulfuric acid recycle that Encased ur does

Base Ur Rod is good if you're really not trying to squeeze more power. Simplifies thing

Fertile uranium is ... interesting. I'd go with the Base Non fissile. It consumes MORE waste for your buck.

Fertile is good if you're trying to get the most P rods I think

[placid nymph]

I wonder, what item is the least profitable to craft for the AWESOME sink?

Like which gives you the fewest points over materials

Or the opposite, which is the most profitable to craft?

[rare surge]

anyone have a link to a complete item list?

[ebon crater]

4:4:1 ratio splitter anyone?

[rare surge]

Thats for questions-and-help Restart Life (just joking)

[ebon crater]

haha almost got me i was super confused

also nvm my question i fked up the math gota make sure i got the right ratio

[rare surge]

input -> splitter -> 3 outputs into 3 splitters. Results in 9 outputs. Merge those outputs in sets of 4

[fierce cypress]

@ebon crater would this work?

[rare surge]

^ or even that

I overthought it

[ebon crater]

basically i have 480+240 in, 320, 320, and 80 out-

[ebon crater]

if i had mk5 belts, yes

i dont have 720 unfortuntley

[signal nimbus]

@ebon crater Split the 480 into thirds (160 each). Two into one of the 320 outputs. Split the 240 into 2 lines (120 each). Split a 120 into three and merge two back together for 40 and 80. Merge the 40, 120, and the final 160 into a 320.

[ebon crater]

oh hold on i got it

[ebon crater]

thats exactly waht i did, thx

[signal nimbus]

XD

[ebon crater]

figured it out at the same time lmao

[signal nimbus]

👍 I've in the past claimed that load balancing is actually one of the only skills I've semi-mastered in Satisfactory... feel free to ping me if you get another spicy one.

[ebon crater]

solid steek ingots be like 🤦
always doing funky things

i used to be able to load balance vertically in a way that made sense to me, but now i lost it oof

ima try to fix it up so the 80 is on the end

[signal nimbus]

Solid steel is the easiest, usually.

[rare surge]

I build solid steel in groups of 2. That is two belts in, which results in 3 belts out.

[signal nimbus]

120 belt feeds three of them, get 180 out on a Mk 3 belt.

[ebon crater]

yeah but i'd like it all on mk4

[signal nimbus]

Mkay? That's just four sets of 3.

Every 2 gives off a 120 belt, merge four for a 480.

[ebon crater]

oh yeah i might be back when it comes to the coal- thats coming in on 300-300-300-300-480

but i will try to figure it out by myself

[signal nimbus]

👍

[ebon crater]

i think im confused.
im doing 8 smelters per line bc thats 480 out. the inputs are funky bc its 320 of each

actually coal might be easy

[rare surge]

I do 12 founderies a line, 2 lines facing each other. Thats 3 sets of 8

[ebon crater]

well i need exactly 42 foundries

its fine i've got it sorted

[rare surge]

ah, okie dokie

[signal nimbus]

K... inputs for a set of 3 are 120 each. For a pod of 2 of those sets, you get 3x 120 belts out. For two pods, that's 6x 120 belts, or 1.5 480 belts.

So I guess you need 4 pods for an even 3 480 belts out.

[rare surge]

I don't worry about balancing lower-tier items tbh. I match output to belts and let machines back up before hooking up to other factories. Internally I use simple manifolds. Once the inputs back up it self levels

[signal nimbus]

Oh, manifolds are a huge time saver, ngl. But... there's something nice about making sure your low-tier belts are full.

[rare surge]

For higher tier items I don't want sitting on belts I defo use balancing

[ebon crater]

ah, i see. i was rly just basing off max belt speed, and counted that as one pod

[signal nimbus]

Mhm!

[bitter tree]

Want to make sure I have this math right before building..
Infused Uranium Cell (Alt recipe). It uses 25 Uranium/min. Max Uranium on the map is 2100/min. So I need to build 84 Manufacturers?

[signal nimbus]

Yes.

[bitter tree]

oof .. alrighty!

-laughs- This shouldn't take long at all ..

[bitter tree]

I had taken all the resources to make 42 blenders over .. but I was like, this doesn't have the alt recipe .. checks wiki doh!

So now I am having to take the hyper tube I had built back and forth getting all the mats for the 84 Manufacturers. The logistics of this should be a nightmare!

[rare surge]

So looking at #L-f-G. there's a claim of

Have a recipe to beat the Oil Trippling farm, currently with my ccalculations we can produce 88-200 more tan the current most efficient build in satisfactory. Currently requring help to build the basic design and then scale it up into tier 8 settings.

So my guesses amount to:

• Turbo fuel, which does provide more power but comes at the cost of sulfur which is needed in t7&8
• Since t8 is desired, maybe the person assumes people don't utilize the blender recipe. It has the same oil->fuel ratio but consumes less power.
• Misinformed.

[wind spade]

Just ping the user here and ask?

[rare surge]

I tried, not on server

[wind spade]

@tropic yoke seems to be on server 🤔

[rare surge]

oh derp, i wasn't including the '

thanks

[tropic yoke]

I am using the blender recipe actually

[rare surge]

So your line of thinking is Diluted fuel in blender vs packaged diluted fuel from packager+refinery. Correct?

[tropic yoke]

I cant explain rigght now but i will bring details once the recipe is complete

[tropic yoke]

i will pull out of 150 crude oil

just think i can give it a 12-34% increase

will share details once design is completeded

[rare surge]

For 150 crude, blender route uses roughly 33.3MW less power.

[tropic yoke]

Thats correct

[rare surge]

Blender route isn't unknown to the community.

People don't want to wait for blenders to do fuel gen setup so they do diluted packaged fuel, and once blenders are unlocked they don't want to tear down their current fuel setup for what is a power increase of less than 1%

Blenders result in a ~0.75% (that is ~0.0075) increase in power over refineries+packagers. (By way of less power being consumed, not more fuel produced)

[frosty owl]

By now I have no idea what sort of situations you've been encountering to say that 😅 😆

Bursts in item delivery can cause issues for some kinds of balancers, but can be accounted for. But what about inconsistencies in item delivery? 🤔 Can you give an example to show what you mean?

Generally speaking, I'm still of the opinion that load-balancing doesn't work only when user errors are involved (I'm including not taking bugs into account as "user error" for simplicity)
Meaning one can create working load-balancers for any situation, given enough knowledge

[rare surge]

Am done tinkering with my spreadsheet:

[oblique hollow]

Fuel output is technically same, though net power is a different topic

[dense cave]

So basically, just go with blenders?

I need that recipe and the plastic/rubber as well :S

[wind spade]

you can go either with diluted packaged or just diluted

both result in same resource efficiency, diluted is just slightly more power efficient (but available later in the tech tree)

but tbh if power is your issue, then just go nuclear and you will have more than you need

[dense cave]

yeah, I am already at nuclear stage. Really what I need is the plastic/rubber recipe at this point I guess.

but my plan is to use power generators as an overflow

[noble timber]

You could always recycle the spare fuel to make even more plastic and rubber

[dense cave]

main focus is plastic rubber since I will get nuclear next, but if I am not consuming enough plastic then it will just idle

so I have gone all way to endgame without touching trains or nuclear power lol

[echo pollen]

could always sink the plastic overflow

[hazy saffron]

720 steel ingots/minute; what ratio for splitting that into beams and pipes would y'all reccommend?

[noble agate]

I would start by splitting them evenly (the input, not the output) and then adjusting when you realise what you need more.

[wind spade]

I would suggest not doing any guesses and only building what you need at the time

[noble agate]

If you’re just starting with steel, 720 is a lot more than I used to have. And if not, you probably know already what you need it for.

[wind spade]

there's no advantage in pre-building something, unless you need X, don't produce X

[noble agate]

There is advantage in prebuilding steel beams though, as you need them for mk3 belts

[wind spade]

so you build them because you need them 🙂

what I mean is "don't pre-build something unless you know you'll need that and you know in what quantities"

[noble agate]

Yeah, I agree with that 🙂

[hazy saffron]

that was actually my main consideration

beams don't seam to be used for a whole lot

belts aren't really a concern for me as I have aluminum production going and a lot of encased beams sitting in boxes

[wind spade]

I basically do it this way:

• figure out what I need (need = for building or unlocking milestones only, not for other production lines)
• build it in some small quantity (near nodes)
• ship products to storage
• repeat

[hazy saffron]

given the only milestones I have left don't unlock anything of use for me (they're basically all nuclear with the exception of the one that gives mk 3 miner) I'm not concerned about that

[wind spade]

yeah, then only stuff needed for building

and otherwise stuff you want to sink (if you want to produce some decent sink point amount)

[hazy saffron]

I already have everything of interest in the shop unlocked

only things left are the decals and statues

and i really don't care for either of those

[wind spade]

then it seems you might need to set up goals for yourself before deciding how much of something do you want to produce lol

[hazy saffron]

goal: have something to do

not opening new desktops every two minutes would also be an appreciable goal to achieve

[ebon crater]

is there an easier way to split 300 into 280-20?

[wind spade]

manifold

[ebon crater]

not for this one unfortunatly

[wind spade]

why not?

[versed violet]

260 + 20 is not 300?

[ebon crater]

meant 280

i just cant type

my bad

[wind spade]

why not manifold tho?

[ebon crater]

cuz its 700 items/min, and i dont have mk5

so i need to add 20 to the 400 line not shown in teh image

[wind spade]

you said splitting 300

[ebon crater]

yes, split 300 into 20 and 380, then add the 20 to the 400 line

[wind spade]

yeah manifold would work for that as well

[ebon crater]

to make 420

[wind spade]

you could also use priority splitter to split primarly in 280 direction

[ebon crater]

yea, it could, but then the orders of thing would be screwed up

[ebon crater]

priority? using lower speed belts you mean?

[wind spade]

smart splitter

[ebon crater]

overflow?

[wind spade]

yeah

that's pretty much priority 😛

[ebon crater]

terminology ¯_(ツ)_/¯

i found a simpler way

[hazy saffron]

I thought about using a chain of smart splitters and mergers to balance a chain of conveyors right but the size of the splitters makes it a but clunky

[ebon crater]

if i split using a mk1 belt, one side goes 60, nd the other takes all the rest, 240. splitting that 60 into 3 gives me that 20 i need, and then i recombine everything else back into a 280 line

[hazy saffron]

that's a lot of effort for almost no gain

[sudden mulch]

so... If I wanted to setup one water extractor (20mw) and two packagers (one package at the location, the other unpackage somewhere else) I would spend 40mw every 120m3 of water. This is 3:1 water per mw (ignoring transportation)

A waterwell with a resource well could take 720m3 without needing the packagers, being a 4,8:1 water per mw (ignoring pipeline pump)

Assuming everything goes at 100% and i don't split/underclock the water extractors or the packagers, my math is right in telling me this water well near the factory is better, as long as I don't overclock it (since power consumption is not linear), yes?

[hushed badger]

so

if i have one pure caterium node and only mk1 miners unlocked is 8 ai limiters/min and 40 quickwire/min a good idea

[latent glacier]

If you're only at mk1 miners, you probably don't need to be automating AI limiters yet. I'm 100+ hours in and still haven't automated them

[rare surge]

Eh, Smart splitters are good to have early on

[latent glacier]

I agree, but 8 AI limiters a minute?

[rare surge]

Why not? If they have the motivation to do it now, it means they don't have to worry about it for that much longer later

[latent glacier]

Just my $0.02 ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[proven bramble]

If I need 14.4 beacons, 7.2 crystal oscillators, and 20 electromagnetic control rods / minute, to power 3 banks of 6 nuclear reactors, how would I go about calculating how far away the factories that produce those should be to meet that demand without going over via trains? I have 7 groups of 3 banks of reactors, so I'll be using 7 trains to feed my power plant.

I'll be producing all three in one location and feeding the rest of the world from that one location.

[rare surge]

Train movement is very inconsistent due to periodic fps lag. As such its not good to attempt to use distances as a throttle

[proven bramble]

So feed the power plant a bit more items and sink the extras would be my best bet then, I guess? Yay for inefficiency!

[rare surge]

just buffer the inputs and have your train set to wait until empty at the plant

[proven bramble]

Ouch... Gonna have to tear out three huge load balancers to do that.

[rare surge]

(Personal) general rule: When it comes to logistics in this game, assume throughput is inconsistent; belts, pipes, trucks, trains, drones.

[proven bramble]

I've learned that. 600 pipes don't push 600 fluid, 780 belts don't push 780 items.

I've managed to get a consistent 300ipm from drones though, which feels great

[rare surge]

The way I typically handle throttling is via limting end-product machines and then buffering the inputs. eventually input buffers back up and logistics to them stall which is fine.

so using your example, I'd have factories that over produce beacons, oscillators and control rods. This would get brought in and buffered. From there I'd limit the throughput by only having 12 manufactures making fuel rods.

Eventually: input buffers back up then freight platforms fill up, then trains wait at freight platform to unload, leaving the upstream factories outputs to be dispersed to other factories

Its alot of unused product sitting in buffers though, which sucks, but atleast you aren't throwing stuff away needlessly

Really wish there was a way to limit inventory(containers, Vehicles, platforms, fluid buffers, etc)

[upbeat relic]

WHERE DO I GO FOR GENARAL CHAT

sry caps

[oblique hollow]

#satisfactory

[cold owl]

#off-topic-general

[oblique hollow]

hmmm depends, which general chat now xd

[cold owl]

Right?

[proven prawn]

Well perhaps my design and knowledge of some kinds of balancers are right, but we discussed one of them before. aka the one with nuclear waste, I used your balance that used a smart splitters, and a mergers and belt to turn 600+ lines into 600 lines, but because of the way items are delivered on belts and the inconsistency in average amount of items on belt on any specific instance, the main mistake I made that though the items per minute and and basic belt logic all were indeed logical and correct, balancers of these sorts are perhaps to complex for at least me to design correctly, now maybe somebody else has knowledge and can do such a system correctly, but I basically don't know how to do it at least. So while it seems generally speaking load balancers should work, in my experience through actual design and testing the issues are actually much more complex than that, not that I don't wish I could design load balancers correctly for such cases but I lack the knowledge presently to make a design that would work correctly. Well I did come up with a simple solution for thats a variable balancer/manifolder of sorts, but it doesn't exactly solve of the issue of how to send only 600 items a minute down this one line for this system, because it basically doesn't attempt to actually balance it at all, beyond a overflow for when the line itself is full, although it is a overall a solution for the entire system for usage and consumption, still it lacks the real finite and complex control I wish it could have.

[runic anvil]

Has anyone used the plutonium pellet recipe for nuclear waste removal..
If so what ratios of waste did you put into the blender and the particle accelerators... just that I need 4 x more non fissile than waste for 100% efficiency so wondering how much waste goes into the blender to make non fissile equal to 4 times the leftover waste amount

Sorry my brain is struggling with the math on this one 😅

[thorn bane]

3/4 into the blender 1/4 into the particle accelerator

non fissile uranium waste splitting 75:25

[frosty owl]

Just manifold it

[proven prawn]

Yeah I use it as its the cheapest way to get rid of nuclear waste.

[runic anvil]

OMG I'm so stupid, THANK YOU @thorn bane

That makes so much sense, idk what I was tryna do the whole time lol

[thorn bane]

you can also use a planner to do the math for you
https://www.satisfactory-planner.net/?f=v3_U5,7fffffffbffdff7ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff,plutonium_fuel_rod:per_minute:5,,70380:100:0|28860:243:0|52860:133:0|30900:227:0|11040:637:0|10500:670:0|6840:1028:0|11700:601:0|9780:719:0|2100:3351:0|12000:586:0|0:1:1,0,1:0:0:10000

[runic anvil]

Yeah ive been meaning to use one of those but usually just settle for pen and paper lol, but now that you linked one.. yep imma use it thanks

[thorn bane]

i prefer https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production but @wind spade has added nuclear power plants yet

[proven prawn]

me using pen and paper for my production now would be like god help wtf is this insanity

[rare surge]

shuffles spreadsheets in the corner

[frosty owl]

I wonder if a tour through some of my recent beltworks could help you get some ideas I've made quite a number of interesting balancers lately, some noteable examples:

• Balancers for unload stations (from full belt to X/min)
• Balancers for production from "irregular" source (iron ingots from pure iron on a mixed belt with multiple 60/min exactly outputs, the ingots are in bursts of 12 iirc)
• A balancer for a drone unload (limits the output to 300/min)
• Sushi balancers for different items, most notably 1:4 for UFRs (shared with plutonium rods inputs) and 1:2 for uranium ore (shared with plut. inputs and rods)

They work all quite satisfactorily

[proven prawn]

I have no idea, but I'll send you the save file if you want to look at my setup and give me any idea's/pointers also, you can see how im currently balancing it out and see if you have any better ideas.

[frosty owl]

Tries to shuffle signs. They won't budge

[rare surge]

specific to the 600 setup:

• Input into Smart Splitter. Smart splitter setup with two outputs as any, the third as overflow.
• From each of the 'any' outputs run a mk4+ belt into individual storage containers.
• From one of the storage containers run an mk2 belt into a merger
• From the other storage containers run an mk4 belt into the same merger.
• Take output from merger for 600 line
• Handle overflow output however.

This buffers the input for item bursts while maintaining 600 so long as over-all input can sustain it.

[frosty owl]

That's pointless unless you put some items in the containers or let them fill a bit though ^^

[rare surge]

no. 2x mk4 belts in to containers(960 items/minute), but max out is 600

[frosty owl]

Right, that was the point 😅 😆

Eh, still, one buffer is enough, just have the overflow before one buffer and split-merge for 600 on the output ^^

[rare surge]

Yea. Just need to buffer the input somewhere along the way. I perfer it after the split but it could def be put before

[thorn bane]

and thats why i dont balance things 🙂

[proven prawn]

Right and because I want to design my system to always work, aka in can shut off or on, doesnt matter, this setup idea wont offer a solution for me.

[frosty owl]

And that's why you burn tons of iodine filters

[proven prawn]

sense it needs to work under any condition, etc

[frosty owl]

That's a condition that can be easy or extremely hard to achieve... depending on how you set things up AND the additional constrains you may have (eg: not wanting radiation or not sinking items...)

In the simplest scenarios, you just connect the machines directly to one another (just merging or splitting in 2/3 when necessary).
Any "extra step" in between adds layers of complexity ^^

[proven prawn]

radiation for me is a none factor, the biggest thing is that all waste is recycled and the entire system works, even if i for example turn the nuclear power plants off or on, beyond that, i wouldnt rule out anything as far as achieving overall goals.

[rare surge]

Just curious: Slechtvalk: Are you coming from factorio or Mindustry by chance?

[proven prawn]

my current way achieves all said goals, still i do wonder if there is any better way to do it?

naa i actually started at satisfactory and didnt learn about the other games until later on

[rare surge]

The reason I asked is because both of those games have logic-circuitry that allows for some very fine-grained control. Alot of people coming from those expect similar control in satisfactory which leads to conversations like the above where people want to account for most situations but the game is very limiting in that regard

[proven prawn]

aye that makes sense, guess i just naturally like very fine grained control, but im learning how to deal with what im given

[rare surge]

One of the things I wish CSS would implement if they don't want to go Logic-Control route, is a queue for items and liquids.

The idea being you set a specific amount of an item, and once that amount of an item has been input, they get moved to the output

[proven prawn]

hmmm unsure if that would offer any there solution to balance issues with some specific setups.

[vapid gorge]

Look, we all get brain farts. I spent an entire day trying to figure out how my oil recyc system I laid out wasn't matching the production plan, someone else had to have a look to point out that I was making 600 more residual rubber than my layout accounted for. It happens

[radiant yoke]

gotta love them floating point errors

[runic anvil]

Yeah lol, happens to me loads cobalt lol

[rare surge]

IDK what you're talking about. looks fine to me:

[radiant yoke]

oh must have just been my imagination

[cloud swan]

is this enough for an overflow output?

[lament bluff]

Oh wow I designed a 'standard' ironworks facility that turns 240 iron ore/m into all of the tier 1 iron products (plates, rods, reinforced plates, screws, rotors and modular frames)

It produces a total of 69 items per minute.

Nice.

[rare surge]

You just need the bend to be one pipe width above the highest point of the pipe.

[cloud swan]

so would 1 up be enough?

[rare surge]

is the goal to overflow into the gennies?

[cloud swan]

yeah but only once the refinaries it goes to are full

[rare surge]

yea, 1 up should be enough

[cloud swan]

if a train line has too many trains going trough it, should I add more?

[cold owl]

Answer is Always add moar

[cloud swan]

how can I make an astheticly pleasent vertically stacked rails?

[hazy saffron]

Snap to foundations

[echo pollen]

I really like the use of frame walls and frame foundations to stack trains

[wind spade]

I'm working on it 😛

[echo pollen]

kinda go for this look

[oblique hollow]

well, you heard it from Snutt in todays stream: Alumina Solution is a byproduct, Silica is the true stuff

[rugged fjord]

aw yiss

[bitter tree]

For Nuclear setup. 84 Manufacturers to use Uranium. Each requires 75 Quickwire/min. So that is 6300/min total. Assembler can combine Cat and Copper ore to make Quickwire at 90/min. So I need 70 Assemblers for that.
I need to get several nodes combined for this. I think I might have Nuclear done by July :. (

[short holly]

For the electro rods?

[bitter tree]

I am still working on the belt network for the first set of 84 Manufacturers. Then I will work on the Quickwire, 48 Assmblers for Silica ..

Haven't thought that far ahead yet 😄

Like I said, maybe by July

[short holly]

Oh. i meant AI limiters (for the electro rods)

you'll bang em out in no time when you get going 🙂

[supple belfry]

Is there a generally-agreed upon ratio or other rule of thumb for getting nuclear set up? I'm not looking to maximize inputs anywhere; just want to consider dipping in and trying it out.

[oblique hollow]

hmmm.... not really?

for coal its easy enough but nuclear ist.... "build what you feel like"

[supple belfry]

So...tips on getting my head around the production line? I'm hoping to go "clean" and not generate waste.

[hushed badger]

make plenty of space

like far more than you expect to need

then you can always do 90 degree turns and not have clipping and stuff

[supple belfry]

OK, great advice. I'm struggling to get my head around it.

Should I be sinking...the pellets?

[oblique hollow]

cant

neither can you sink the cells

you need to make rods

[supple belfry]

OK, got that.

So I should plan backwards from that point, I guess, to get my head around the production involved.

[bitter tree]

My suggestions: look up the alt recipes for it, and decide which way you want to go. Build in a location that you don't need to go anywhere near. Make an easy cuttoff switch for the miner on the Uranium, so you can let everything get processed through the machines, and deplete all the radioactive material.

Oh. And before you turn on the Miner for the Uranium, save the game. If there is a clog in the system, or things aren't connected, or something else is wrong, you can load the saved game, do the fix, save the game again, and try turning on the miner again

Would be a lot easier then trying to do fixes with all the radioactive material around you @supple belfry

Should also keep a copy of the save file somewhere as a backup, so if you end up not liking the Nuclear setup, you can go back to that save, and rip it down before Uranium has even gone through the process.

[hazy saffron]

imagine not living with your mistakes /s

[bitter tree]

Well, it's a game, you can fix your mistakes and change your mind : )

[hazy saffron]

where's the fun in that lol

[bitter tree]

Just think how many times some people rip down and rebuild their entire base

[hazy saffron]

that's a bit different than reloading previous saves

[bitter tree]

A little different, but not far off.

When you are dealing with radioactive material, it's a little hard to just do small fixes in a design with all that stuff around you. Especially if you have to redo some belt work and now have the radioactive material on you, taking damage.

[cedar ivy]

i just finished my first nuclear plant yesterday after spending about 30 cumulative hours figuring it out, and took extra care to build awesome sinks around the plant with containers to drop materials into if i ever needed to accidentally pick any up

[hazy saffron]

hazmat suit can help there

[cedar ivy]

i'm too hooked on hoverpack for general work, but i did use hazmat and half a stack of filters just to break and dispose of uranium rocks around the area; having ladders all around was important too

[hazy saffron]

second body slot is needed

most people say for hoverpack + blade runners but in reality it's anything + gas mask or hazmat suit

[cedar ivy]

i was actually surprised how completely little radiation there was in my running plant, compared to just carrying stray uranium.

[hazy saffron]

for a long time I had a small unusable corner of my factory due to some uranium ore in a box

it wasn't a big enough deal to fix but it still existed

[cedar ivy]

only the plutonium rod manufacturer came close, once it had a stack of cells

[wind spade]

radiation greatly scales with distance

or rather the inverse

so carrying something is a lot of intensity compared to staying two meters away from something

[bitter tree]

I am still just scraping the surface on Nuclear build .. still belting up the first 84 Manufacturers.

[cedar ivy]

standing on belts and splitters with uranium products and fuel rods did nothing, compared to the huge field around a uranium rock which still was almost no damage compared to carring 6 uranium from a single pickup... which didn't seem to get worse carrying a whole stack from several rocks.

[bitter tree]

And still have to go get and build the other products needed.

[cedar ivy]

i get inverse square law but it's very unintuitive in practice in the game.

[frosty owl]

I suggest planning for (assuming metà recipes) 3 manufacturers/1.8 uranium rods/75 uranium
The numbers are quite nice with that (or multiples of it)

[frosty owl]

Quiz: plutonium cells stack in 200s and manufacturers hog at least 40/60 (depending on recipe) by the end of their production cycle

Plutonium rods on the other hand stack in 50s and can be burned immediatly (generators don't need to hog them)

Which item do you think is the most radioactive?

1. Plutonium Cells
2. Plutonium Rods
3. Neither

[cedar ivy]

the one that starts to hurt first as i cautiously approach it

[bitter tree]

You can just toss the Plutonium Rods in to a sink. That way, you don't have to deal with storing any waste.

[rare surge]

<@&387163995947270144>

[torpid robin]

None of the above . You are the most radioactive . As you are toxic as anything

😂

[thorn bane]

still think plutonium cells are bugged
the radiation is just stupid

[ebon crater]

cuz its too much?

never made it to plutonium

[pulsar phoenix]

Hey Guys,

So, I've started playing satisfactory a while ago and one thing that bothered me was me not knowing how many buildings I need to construct some more advanced resources, because of all the dependencies.

I then used the last days of my holiday to write a python script which could then recursively calculate all of that.

The script is available on my Github Repo: https://github.com/ImYuushi/Satisfactory-Calculator

The instructions on how to use this script are described in the README file, aswell as the prompts within the script

An example would be:

Recipe: "Reinforced Iron Plate"

Amount: 1

Output: [('Iron Plate', 3.0), ('Screw', 3.0), ('Iron Rod', 2.0), ('Iron Ingot', 4.0)]

Which means to produce one batch (in the case of RIP, that would be 5/min), we need:

4 Smelters Producing Iron
2 Constructors Producing Iron Rods
3 Constructors Producing Screws
3 Constructors Producing Iron Plates

[supple belfry]

Precisely what I looking for! Thank you so much!

[vapid gorge]

Have you used the production tool to try to get an idea of the buildings you need?

[supple belfry]

I poked at it. The energy planner wasn't very helpful, and then I had no notion of what to shoot for in terms of items/min using the actual planner.

[vapid gorge]

This one ? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/ There's a few around

[supple belfry]

I used satisfactory-calculator.com, but the same problem arises.

[vapid gorge]

They can be a bit to get used to, this one is more user friendly - for example what item did you want to produce and how many per minute?

[vapid gorge]

Or it sounded like you wanted to use uranium for something? Was there a max amount of uranium you had on hand to use?

[wind spade]

How does it deal with loops/alternate recipes?

[rare surge]

Can I get someone to check my math:

Compacted Coal(alt) needs: 25 coal and 25 sulfur/minute to produce 25 compact coal/minute.
Thus 1 compacted equates to 1 sulfur per minute.

Fine Black Powder(alt) meeds: 7.5 Sulfur, 3.75 compacted coal/min.
Thus FBP needs 11.25 sulfur/min total

I have a mk4 belt worth of sulfur, which means I have enough sulfur for ~42.6666 FBP setups, correct?

[thorn bane]

correct https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=K0zX2E5gF5srLNclsOet

[rare surge]

Look here with your fancy online calculators.... (thanks)

[pulsar phoenix]

There‘s loops? 👀
If A is an alt recipe for B, then it replaces B during all calculations

[rare surge]

Aluminium has a water loop

It takes water as an input, and returns 1/3 of the water as an output

[thorn bane]

rubber needs plastic
plastic needs rubber

[pulsar phoenix]

I kind of realized after writing this post that calculators already exist

Short answer: it doesnt handle loops

[wind spade]

some setups require loops or multiple different recipes per item

[pulsar phoenix]

Since I didnt know if loops exist, but was aware of the possibility, I put in a counter that stops after a tree depth of 1000

[wind spade]

that's why I kinda gave up onto recursive tree resolving

and instead used linear optimisation in my tool

[pulsar phoenix]

Linear Optimizations monka

Im sure it's doable

[rare surge]

Q: Is there a machine-readable database currently for satisfactory. like a bunch of .json files listing info about stacksizes, recipes, how to unlock, etc?

[pulsar phoenix]

but after realizing other calculators already exist, I dont think theres a need to implement those changes

[pulsar phoenix]

yes and no

[thorn bane]

put stuff in matrix
give matrix to third party library
convert solved matrix back
ez

[wind spade]

yes

[pulsar phoenix]

I basically took the source code from the satisfactory wiki, formatted it and then put it into an sqlite database

[rare surge]

You got a link?

[pulsar phoenix]

There might be a smarter way tho probably

[wind spade]

it's in game install directory

communityResources/Docs.json

[rare surge]

oh, nice!

[wind spade]

tho you may also use my data.json from my tools' repository

which is slightly more user-friendly formatted

[rare surge]

OOF

42d worth of play time :<

[frosty owl]

||Pft, rookie numbers ||

[frosty owl]

Did I miss something?
Maybe a bug with headlift, @oblique hollow? I haven't kept up to date with the floor hole issues... 😅
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/szdmtb/game_bugs_that_affect_production_draft/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[vapid gorge]

yeaaaaaahhhhh....... some of this has just been having let the game run overnight or getting up doing chores or food... but ... yeah....

[supple belfry]

I didn't have anything in mind. Somewhere to get started that made sense--probably not wanting to use more than one pure node, tbh.

[vapid gorge]

Ok so an example - https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=5r355RIPjnQQhTUxswXW

This is a shared tab. What I've done is under 'inputs' I reduced the max uranium available to 600 pm. 1 normal node mk3 at 250%

in production I just put in 'maximise' for the resources available.

You can look under 'recipes' to change the recipes you want to use. For example on this one only the basic recipes are being used but you can manually swap what recipes you want by unchecking one of hte basics, then clicking an alt replacement

[supple belfry]

Right, but now I'm having an issue with calculating the waste.

[vapid gorge]

waste processing or just produced?

[supple belfry]

I appreciate you taking the time to surface this for me. I'm familiar enough with these tools to pull it off, but I am struggling with the waste processing.

[vapid gorge]

Oh that's a different issue we can work with 🙂 how many waste per minute are you doing?

[vapid gorge]

Oh I guess I should ask - is it the waste process itself that's overwhelming because it requires a tons of different bits, or the caculations for sorting it that's having issues for you?

[dense cave]

why would you consume that much black powder?

[supple belfry]

Honestly, man, I'm mostly lost on the general arc of production. There are so many steps, that I'm not sure what goes into what. That said, I think I'm going to delay getting started until Elden Ring, and maybe even get my Assembly Director Systems going before that...

[dense cave]

Just take it one step at a time

which waste are you having problems with?

[vapid gorge]

Yeah it's probably the most involved process using a variety of product lines for the entire thing.

The main thing is having some bauxite processing already on hand, and looking at the map to put your nuclear plant somewhere that is convenient to the resources you need for waste processing

This is my set up for it, I've maximised it for my waste but you can alter that number. If you do give it a go try seperating it out into chunks or small hubs and having it come together. I don't do nuclear until I have absolutely everything unlocked and have a solid TF plant to boost it https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=XzSKUYU3NVSKcEFGxOMv

compartmentalising it into smaller steps is really needed

Oh, and break down the steps on a spread sheet. It really helps

[supple belfry]

Is there any way to surface the waste generated by the uranium fuel rod production?

Like, once it's used by a powerplan?

[vapid gorge]

I don't understand what you mean by 'surface'

[maiden solar]

I'm working on a max nuclear setup, i can't decide between "fused Mod. Frames" and the alternative "Heat Fused Frames"

[ornate shoal]

1 uranium fuel rod makes 50 waste

[vapid gorge]

fused. Uses so much less bauxite

[dense cave]

what waste do you have? if you are using blenders, you can pipe the sulfuric acid to the same input

[vapid gorge]

heat fused*

[maiden solar]

sure, 1000 less

but with what alternate rec. are they build on

[vapid gorge]

I'd guess Heavy Oil Residue and Blended Diluted Fuel

those are the most efficient oil product recipes

[maiden solar]

2520 Uranium Waste

[vapid gorge]

I don't use that recipe for my waste though

[maiden solar]

i mean with the alu

here is my plan so far

[vapid gorge]

Well, balancing simplicity with maximum alum output a lot of people like

Sloppy - electrode - pure ingots

[maiden solar]

that is what i use too

[vapid gorge]

It's a very good process.

[dense cave]

Reprocess it into plutonium rods, then sink them

[maiden solar]

nope FULL POWER :)

didnt thought of the water 0.0

[dense cave]

Actually I was tlaking to the other guy

[maiden solar]

oh

[dense cave]

hey man, do you mean what to use with the uranium waste?

[vapid gorge]

ooooh you're going ot wind up with a tons of plutonium waste XD

Well this is my waste processing https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production all you'd have to do is change 1 recipe for the max power option I think.

[maiden solar]

i mean https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=sQX9tQwjn0NEXEWyiERE but i want to calc that myself too

[vapid gorge]

Ah yeah as in a layout for building plans? I get that.

But yeah those 3 bauxite recipes and you're set. Anything else you were considering?

[maiden solar]

i cant decide what recipe i have to use, with the fused mod frames

[vapid gorge]

ooh as in all the steps BEFORE the aluminium?

[wind spade]

waste is not a big deal anyway

[maiden solar]

with 224 per min? sure?

[wind spade]

yeah

I'm not sure about plutonium waste, but for uranium waste you need ~20k years of max production for the radiation to cover the entire map

if you put it into a corner

[maiden solar]

only 20k years ohhnooo

[maiden solar]

what to you mean

with before

[vapid gorge]

as in the parts that go INTO the heat fused frame?

[maiden solar]

yes

[wind spade]

here's the math I've done btw https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/m96kuy/how_to_irradiate_the_whole_world/

the 20 years is in reply to first comment.

[vapid gorge]

Ah well there's only the 1 recipes for Nitric Acid
Fuel should be HOR -> Blended Diluted Fuel
Al Ingot is that trio we talked about

[ornate shoal]

wow just wow, how many containers you have to build though?

[vapid gorge]

And this is the list of recipes I like for HMF https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=MnvxKFjhYR7d5C6Vae0j

[maiden solar]

thx

[vapid gorge]

No prob!

[maiden solar]

ok thx for the help, im going to use heat frames :)

[wind spade]

it's all in the post I've shared, if you really wanted most optimal solution (meaning least waste to cover whole world), you need 2*10^9 waste (produced in 2 years and 55 days), and put 61.8 waste into each container on a cube grid, 46.188 meters apart (total amount is ~43.2 million of containers)

[vapid gorge]

Ok I'm curious as to why though? It's slower and you don't need that much fuel for the more efficient one

[wind spade]

and that's the most optimal solution, basically anything you do makes this even less likely to happen

[vapid gorge]

Basically need 1/2 power for the fuel one

[maiden solar]

ok thx again, i'll show the factory after its done

[ornate shoal]

wait, so people unironically build nuclear setups to cover the entire map with waste? i thought it was to make power

[maiden solar]

everything has multiple uses :D

[vapid gorge]

Some people just want to see the world glow

[frosty owl]

I think you might have an easier time if you try following the production steps to process 100 waste/min ^^
This results in the first two steps being 3/4 of the waste to 2 blenders making Non-fissile to feed a plutonium pellets accelerator that also takes the remaining waste (all at 100%). The following steps all have nice ratios

Then you can just scale the setup to your needs. Eg: I processed 360 waste/min (12 manufacturers' worth of rods) so I made 3 "100 waste" setups clocked at 120% each

[upbeat relic]

Why do I have to do math

In a video game

[rugged fjord]

Cause some of us actually find that fun

[noble timber]

Well

You don’t have to

Only if you want max efficiency

[still blade]

if i try to calculate how many machines will be needed for a part, do i calculate the raw material arrival rate divided by PPM of the recipe?

for example, 60 raw quartz divided by 22.5 PPM of the quartz crystals = amount of machines to make efficient crystal production line?

[noble timber]

Yes

So in that case you would have 2 constructors at 100% and 1 at 67%

[still blade]

or i can underclock them all to make 20 PPM

thanks for info

[noble timber]

Yeah that would work as well

[wind spade]

tbh there's tons of games that either require you to do math or just are nice with some extra calculations. Rarely you see a game where that's not the case

[flat stump]

I’m having trouble load balancing a 105 line into 60 and 45 can any one help?

[wind spade]

easiest way is to do a manifold or just single splitter and let it balance itself

[flat stump]

Ok

[wind spade]

otherwise you can deal with balancers and come up with 4:3 balancer, but I wouldn't bother with it

[upbeat relic]

What’s the point of the game without efficiency

You get like 1 thing per minute

If only there was a way to calculate it

[rugged fjord]

There are plenty of calculator sites, you can always use those to make planning easier

[bitter tree]

@still blade Sorry for being late with the reply here, I just woke up. You can underclock using a specific percentage or you can specify how many parts per minute you want to make.

[eager needle]

how to transport <500 coal /min 2km to my base? is a train worth or should i do conveyor belts

[bitter tree]

If you do go the train route .. I would suggest finding other resource nodes in the area of the coal, and transport that to your base at the same time.

You could refine and build some smaller items next to those nodes and just transport those to be used for something else... Like if there is some copper near by, you could make copper sheets and transport those.

Would just need to add more storage cars to the train (and more platforms).

[wind spade]

the first question should indeed be if you need to move it at all

e.g. generators can be built near the node, steel factory too

[still blade]

how can i load balance 4 water extractors into 3 pipes

[wheat bear]

I’m only aware of the calculator that requires you to say how many of x product you want per minute. Is there one where I can say what ore and belts are available and it gives an efficient layout?

[wind spade]

satisfactory tools kinda can do that, but you still need to say what do you want to make

[wind spade]

connect them all

[wheat bear]

There’s a pump you get later that lets you stifle liquid flow if that’s what you mean

[wheat bear]

Yeah but the productivity map actually breaks my brain

[eager needle]

well i kinda need a LOT of steel, did some calculations and its arround 1000 steel ingots per minute... and i dont have any iron nodes in the area of the coal

[wind spade]

I mean... that's the setup you're looking for 🤷‍♂️

[wheat bear]

I meant more that it defaults to belt spaghetti

[wind spade]

wdym?

it's up to you how you connect belts

[wheat bear]

I mean seeing the tool’s prospective map has criss-crossing belts. I’d prefer something like what this guy made https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/si7i62/i_sit_in_front_of_computers_all_day_for_work/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

[wind spade]

you can move the nodes around

[wheat bear]

I can do that in game too. I’m just wondering if a site has a tool that creates a map like that

[wind spade]

not really, would be super big and hardly useful for any larger setup

[wheat bear]

True. Once you utilize transportation, the map is less useful.

[bitter tree]

You can find an area that has coal and iron somewhat nearby, and build your steel there. Then transport it from there.

[oblique hollow]

Not sure with floor holes either. But jace encountered that bug on stream when they were preparing the internal map for zhe other devs to play on

I dont really know how consistent it is or when it happens

[frosty owl]

I'll just leave a note to that then 👍

[rare surge]

This is a bleed-off/overflow system for sulfur. Figure its better to use the sulfur than to have it backed up on belts. I'll use the BP to make nobelisks and rifle cartridges

[radiant yoke]

wait hol' up you can just type how many ppm u want instead of actually having to calculate it manually?

[rare surge]

yup

@radiant yoke

[radiant yoke]

f*ck me uughhhhhhh

I've wasted so much time

[rare surge]

In your defense, its not super apparent. Hell, alot of people don't know you can input an exact clock speed either.

[radiant yoke]

ikr I used to try to use the slider to get the right percent it was so annoying

[wind spade]

just fyi: the target production rate will still get converted to clock speed % and rounded to 4 decimals, so you can't always get exact values that you want

but it will be "close enough"

[rare surge]

^

[radiant yoke]

yea I figured

it usually rounds off the production rate when I put in a repeated decimal tho, plus it's close enough that it doesn't really matter anyway

[vapid gorge]

It's one of the many features that is not super apparent XD You're not alone in your pain. but yeah you can manually change the % as well

[radiant yoke]

they really need to make that more obvious

[rare surge]

Even small pencil icon off the to side would be enough

[radiant yoke]

yea

or like a grey text box around them

[rare surge]

Changing the cursor icon when hovering to the 'edit' icon I looking thing it does.

[radiant yoke]

yea

yea I literally just went to check if it already does

[bitter tree]

@radiant yoke Glad I was able to help someone with that info : )

[oblique hollow]

somewhat unnecessary trivia: the motors you produce in satis seem to be in the range of 75 to 90 kW

based on their size

[hazy saffron]

given where they're used and how many of them are used that makes sense

[radiant yoke]

thanks, and I just discovered you can also do math directly in the text box, like 22.5/2 and it will put 11.25, which is super noice

[vapid gorge]

How did you figure that out?

[oblique hollow]

Took a beam connector, took measurements, and compared em to IEC motor sizes

Motor is about 950 mm total length, roughly in the range of a 75 to 90 kW 2 Pole Asynchronous Motor

[versed violet]

Another question then - to build a motor in game you need 2 rotors and two stators. So its a double motor?

[oblique hollow]

I guess its so large it just needs 2 in series, connectes

[vapid gorge]

Ahh ok so comparing it to current tech kk

[oblique hollow]

Im not even sure if the rotor item is one rotor

It seems to be 2 rotors being stored between "rotors" - brake pads

Much like the stator item is two stators

[versed violet]

so its an... quad motor?

[vapid gorge]

Unless you use 1/6th of a rotor and 1/6s of an oscilator XD

1/3? might be 1/3

[fierce ruin]

9 + 10 = 21

[fierce cypress]

facts, but also try an keep this channel related to math/meta sf

[ruby hornet]

I have a math problem if anyone can help me...

nevermind

nevermind again

Dividing 21 on belts of 9 and 12

[stark bronze]

thats 3/4 the only way is to make 8 and loop one back
you probably figured out to just use manifold in this hour

[ruby hornet]

manifold?

is there a way to do it when I unlock smart-splitters?

[rotund tapir]

manifold is just using basic splitters in a row, and don't bothering with balancing, also called bulkhead

if you search, you'll find videos explaining both things everywhere

[vapid gorge]

Something very satisfying... Just found out that 3 out of 4 parts to the beacon to a full Ur rod factory takes 778.4 iron ingots per min.. just under 1 node. Sooooo goood

[wind spade]

are you sure?

I count 2738.4 total

[vapid gorge]

ah that's the 4th part

I'm including the wire for cables , rods and plates

The base wire will be handled by other nodes

[wind spade]

then you didn't screenshot the 4th part 😄

[vapid gorge]

but 1 mk5 belt for 3 of the parts ending with a mixed belt

Oh... well the wire to cable is there. Prob could be made more obvious though yeah

But 1 belt of ingots turning into 1 belt of 3 of the parts. SO good.

[fierce ruin]

mk1 miner- mk2 belts- 4 smelters- 4 constructors

[hazy saffron]

this is gonna be fun

[oblique hollow]

heh

[hazy saffron]

Looks like the answer here is two caterium refineries delivering material to a factory via train

but that still requires me to decide on factory location and which nodes to use

[frosty owl]

[hazy saffron]

🤔 that's not even the worst part

2940 quickwire/minute

[untold niche]

for 1.5 supper cop per min all this is needed 😅

[bitter tree]

Remember, Mk 5 belts are limited to 780/min. So you need at least 3 nodes to get the 1764 cat ore/min that you were needing.

The other day, when starting work on a quickwire setup for my Nuclear plant.. I was like, Overclock a Pure node to 1200/min, and that is more than enough. Then I remembered the 780/min limit of the belts and facepalmed.

[eager needle]

Pretty sure there will be some kind of logistics mk6 or even higher in future updates. 780 just aint enough for bigger projects

[rare surge]

I doubt there will be an mk6 belt tbh, not until they can sort out the issue with mk5 all belts losing throughput.

[wind spade]

*all belts losing throughput

[rare surge]

True, its just most apparent with mk5 belts

I don't see them adding any belt over 780 item/minute with the current state of the game. I can see them adding alternatives though, such as mechanisms to group multiples of an item into a single entity for belt transportaion

[small oasis]

You're still limited by the 780/min supply. The easiest way to kludge it would be to add a MK4 miner that is slightly better than the MK3, but can also output 1024/min due to double outputs ... MK5 could pump that to 1256/min and MK6 to the full 1560/min of double MK5 belts.

[rare surge]

Devs have talked about the 780/min supply limit in regards to mk3 miners. Its more or less by design. Basically boils down to where do they draw the line on resource accumulation.

[hazy saffron]

my complaint here is the bad scaling of belt speeds

[vapid gorge]

That's fine, are you using the cat/copper Qwire?

[hazy saffron]

it's more the quantity that needs moved rather than the production

60 -> 120 -> 270 -> 480 -> 780 is just weird scaling

[rare surge]

So, to me, the only one I find weird is mk3's 270 limit. Should be a 240.

The 780 is essentially the happy medium CSS came up with between peak throughput and throughput loss due to frames.

[vapid gorge]

If you build what is consuming the Qwire directly on top the logistics for it gets greatly reduce. The facility I'm doing right now has to deal with 4000 wire and 6300 Qwire

All moving up

[hazy saffron]

I'm still trying to figure out where I'm going to build the factory

[vapid gorge]

nuclear?

[hazy saffron]

Nope

[vapid gorge]

Ah some sort of computer thing then?

[hazy saffron]

super computers

[vapid gorge]

I like between the swamp and the NE desert

[hazy saffron]

AI limiters and high-speed connectors too

[vapid gorge]

caterium oil copper iron for regular wire

And silica/crystal

[hazy saffron]

I'm already using that caterium deposit for something else

[vapid gorge]

my comp/sup factory is on the circle and using all of those cat nodes I think

[hazy saffron]

that pure node on the upper left side is in use

[vapid gorge]

Even if you have a smaller system there are 4 relatively close nodes

[hazy saffron]

and I don't really care for that location

[vapid gorge]

Ah, Well around the swamp works too. There's copper directly west for the Qwire or copper sheeting

Plus if you use coper/cat qwire yo uonly need 490 caterium ore

[hazy saffron]

i do not have that recipe unlocked

[vapid gorge]

Ah soz. It's one of the ones I consider pretty core critical to larger set ups. Significant to ease of logistics and manufacturing

[hazy saffron]

dealing with a lot of resources on multiple belts isn't a problem to me

thing is I'm already making most of the stuff needed in other parts of the map

the problem there is just the "other parts of the map" part

[vapid gorge]

Moving the computers somewhere?

[hazy saffron]

nah

more just "i want the end product but don't want to build the infrastructure"

despite the fact that the infrastructure is half done already

[vapid gorge]

Ah yeah, that probably is an unsolvable problem yes

[small oasis]

The odd 270 limit is probably because everything's divisible by three and several items would fit nicer with splitting to 30/min usage?

IDK, I'm just spitballing.

[hazy saffron]

240 is also divisible by 3

[radiant yoke]

maybe like a packager that packages stuff into boxes

[rare surge]

Thats sorta my thinking, call it what you will. I was thinking 'palletizer' since 'packager' is already used for fluids.

[radiant yoke]

yea ig

[hazy saffron]

They've discussed that and rejected it iirc

would be nice for stuff like screws though

[radiant yoke]

yesterday I had the random stupid idea of wide belts for large objects

that would be twice as wide as regular conveyors

[radiant yoke]

sux

[rare surge]

They haven't rejected it. Essentially, the only time I've seen it mentioned on their live stream Q&A, it gets the default "We'll see" or "We want to address belt inconsistencies first"

My own thinking would be you would need end-to-end palletizers, similar to packaging->unpackaging fluids. Each palletizer would have a single input and output port aswell as a crafting time to de/palletize items. The machine would require power.

All combined that means you would need multiple palletizers to handle higher tier throughputs. Essentially trading power for throughput

[radiant yoke]

yea that's what I was thinking

lmao imaging the pallets would need to be carried around by forklifts

[hazy saffron]

you would need more than one input/output

[radiant yoke]

that would be so inefficient yet so funny because you would have a million forklifts zipping around

[hazy saffron]

otherwise you're still bottlenecked at 780/minute with them

[rare surge]

You use more than one at each end.

[hazy saffron]

or you can do the standard two inputes two outputs for mass item transit

[rare surge]

No different than using multiple machines to reach a specific throughput

[hazy saffron]

and one input and output makes it any different?

you're achieving basically the same thing as processing resources onsite then shipping the product

there's no real point to the system

theres already very highly scaleable transit present in-game

or with the forklifts carring pallets of items around; how does this differ from tractors and trucks

what makes it different in terms of gameplay and not just aesthetics

[rare surge]

It fills the desire for higher tier throughputs in regards to transit. For example, a freight platform will NEVER be able to reach an overall throughput of 2x mk5 belts. But with a palletizer, you could.

For example, lets say Iron Ingots palletize 10:1. that means you have 10x the throughput(at the cost of power) over your train network. palletize before loading onto train, depalletize after unloading

[hazy saffron]

a freight platform can easily reach that throughput

[rare surge]

No. freight platforms get locked for >25s when a train arrives.

thats 25s of nothing coming out/going into the platform.

[hazy saffron]

🤔

that 25 seconds does not matter

[vapid gorge]

@hazy saffron There IS a packager mod that does that exact thing. It's pretty vanilla in its implementantion from the looks of it.

[rare surge]

The entire idea behind it is essentially to give higher transit throughputs(be it belts, trucks, trains, drones) at the expense of power

[hazy saffron]

a 20 minute round trip of a single car with screws should come out to 800/minute if I didn't do my math wrong

if you narrow that to 10 minute round trip; you get 1600 screws/minute

[vapid gorge]

that sounds paaaaainnful. Is this caculation just on thinking about it as a topic? or is there a reason to ship screws instead of ingots?

[hazy saffron]

Screws because it's what came to mind as something you ship in obscenely high quantities if you hate yourself

same applies to wires and any other 500-item stack

[vapid gorge]

Yeah I was goign to say it sounded like mental self harm

[hazy saffron]

it's also the stack size where filling the station would take the longest

any smaller stacks you have to cut down round trip time

but those items I hope to god you're not making at 1560/minute

[vapid gorge]

Not for long distance tranport. Fuck, anything like those components get used within 50m at most for me. At BEST hopefully within 20m

Though it has been fun playing with train numbers and moving 1200~ pm per platform with mixed materials.

[hazy saffron]

the only thing I see pallets working for w/ forklifts or something is intra-factory transit to cut down on conveyors

[vapid gorge]

I would have thought Inter rather than intra since you'd have to dedicate space for packaging and unpackaging and you probably don't want to do that for short trips.

[hazy saffron]

it depends on the size of the structure

[vapid gorge]

I guess. I think you have to specificy for things like mega factories or not at this point

[rare surge]

It does. you lose 25s of throughput.

Lets use a generic example. Round trip takes 10minutes, you have mk5 belts.

10 minutes = 600 seconds.
600 - 25 = 575 seconds of moving items

2x mk5 belts move 26 items/second (780 * 2 / 60)

That means in the 10min round trip, you max out at 14,950 items moved. (575*26)

The theoretical max for 2x mk5 belts is 15600 (26*600)

Meaning you are only utilizing ~95.833% of max throughput

[vapid gorge]

For me part of the fun is designing factories that will use high output items right next to it. Like 1800 al cases pm I'm making in one spot is getting used 2 foundations over instantly

[hazy saffron]

600-25 does not equal 525 first thing

[rare surge]

Longer trips = less throughput loss. But it is there

Oops. am dumbs, will redo

[vapid gorge]

isn't it 25 sec x 2 for loading and unloading?

[hazy saffron]

yes

but each station only performs one task

[rare surge]

You don't lose that per platform.

[hazy saffron]

theoretically they can do them simultaneously

[rare surge]

loading doesn't affect the throughput of unloading

[hazy saffron]

so only 25 seconds really matters

[vapid gorge]

Truuuueeeee....

So just real quick is the main bit of argument about efficiency over 1 platform vs 2 belts?

[rare surge]

Its more so peak throughput of a single Freight platform. What sparked it was my declaration of a platform never being able to reach peak 2x mk5 belt throughput

(Fixed maths post, its ~95.833% throughput)

[hazy saffron]

but again

[vapid gorge]

Ah yeah. True you'll never get it. UNLESS dun dun dun, you consider belt throttling reducing through put as well

Unless you put a lot of work into it your mk5 will not be doing 780 either

[hazy saffron]

if your train is perfectly timed you should be able to hit 1560 parts/minute on single platform

[rare surge]

Yea, sadly. Which is the lead in the the above declaration

[vapid gorge]

I'm not sure you need perfect timing right? Just need to set only to load when full? ignore me I'm wrong

[rare surge]

nup. got to account for that 25s of platform port stall. No matter how you time it, there is always 25 seconds of throughput loss. Longer trips reduce the effect but there's no way around it

[vapid gorge]

Yeah it's v annoying. I've had to put a lot of work into doing belt to merger/splitter and Belt Welding for my set ups

Yessss...... I ... can't think of a way to avoid the 25s downtime w/o a second platform