math-and-meta

[wintry aurora]

I did the same due to the MK2 pipe issue.

[thorn bane]

oh now how will you recover from having 1% less power impossible

[frosty owl]

So I guess I'll just fix that balancer and let the factory run another night

[shrewd yacht]

haha

how much battery do you really need for those drones?

[oblique notch]

and with 467 fuel gens all with 3 shards and fully OC'd, thats equal to 934 no shard fuel gens (well probabl a little more actually as its not a flat 200% increase but just a bit more)

[frosty owl]

Not much. Like ~5/min each?

[oblique notch]

4 initial, +1 for every 1k it has to travel i believe

[shrewd yacht]

eww so each takeoff uses 4?

or is that for a full roundtrip?

[oblique notch]

yes, so they are FAR more effecient the farther you go

[frosty owl]

It's 4 batteries for any trip up to 1 km

[oblique notch]

did that change? because im pretty sure its 4 flat no mtatter what

and +1 per 1km traveled afterward.

oh wait

[wintry aurora]

Or short trips of low frequency.

[shrewd yacht]

meh... was thinking of doing fused frames near my alu factory and fly them over to the base less than 2km away

[oblique notch]

nevermind thats pretty much what you said. I cant read this morning

[frosty owl]

Just a typo, don't remember the exact lower value, but 1 sounds about right

[oblique notch]

i just watched the dev blog abotu drones last night as I was bored - but that was just as u4 was released - no idea if they tweaked costs since then. But basically, its a flat 4 per flight + 1 battery for every km (as the arrow flies - it does not matter what route the drone takes, its just a straight line calculation between drones). So the farther your drone ports are apart, the better.

Game is only 5.4 km a side so... go big or go home with drones I say 😛

[proven prawn]

It just has to technically pass 24 hours of operation to work...right

[shrewd yacht]

wish the drones used less batteries and more power

and have like a charge time at the platform

[oblique notch]

gotta be a cost somewhere to make the decision between Drones/Trains/Trucks/Belts interesting. They each have trade offs. I like it

[thorn bane]

i wish drones werent so fucking bad

[wintry aurora]

Bad how? The batteries?

[oblique notch]

too costly per throughput?

[thorn bane]

too costly
too big
too low throughput

i basically dont even use them anymore

[shrewd yacht]

I was thinking they would be perfect for low use items like fused frames

[oblique notch]

and see? i thought so. Thats a lot of fuel gens to overclock tho... god is there even enough oil on the map to support that? lol

[wintry aurora]

Train stations are bigger.

[thorn bane]

imo they are supposed to be an upgrade to your logistics
not an option thats worse most of the time

[cinder silo]

Did the drones eating tons of extra batteries when out of line of sight get sorted?

[oblique notch]

no, i dont think they were supposed to be an upgrade. They're a side option. Like most of the alternate recipes, they're subjective in their use.

[proven prawn]

well.....the devs like us to suffer

[oblique notch]

Not a flat upgrade

[thorn bane]

thats why i said in my opinion they should be

[wintry aurora]

I’d heard something about that, and no idea.

[shrewd yacht]

a more variable power draw of the drone port would be nice

it could be double during a charge

[cinder silo]

It wouldn't add anything though, some people with 100+ nukes won't care, and others who have bearly built power would consider it an annoying unneeded burden.

[shrewd yacht]

as I said, balance it out by using less batteries

[oblique notch]

But why? Nothing else in this game is flat upgrade - not even the "meta" alts are really flat upgrade - they all come with a price (more power needed, more complexity, something) - some of those prices seem like nothing (ie: more power doesn't seem like a price most of the time, and a lot of the times more complexity doesnt either) but nothing is really just a flat out straight upgrade. Everything has different costs associated with it to make the choice of to use A or B dependant heavily on your current factory.

which is brilliant design. Still some tweaking to do (ie: pretty much anything to do with screws) but overall, well done.

(And hey, i understand its your opinion, im just trying to understand why you feel they should be an upgrade when pretty much nothing else in the game is actually a true upgrade, but rather subjective ones)

[shrewd yacht]

must be some shitty batteries we make if the drones need so many 😄

and clearly not able to recharge

[thorn bane]

mk5s arent a flat upgrade? mk3 miners arent a flat upgrade?

[oblique notch]

Ah. well. Fair point there. I accept that. I was thinking in terms of different kinds of transportaiton/logistics and alts.

[wintry aurora]

Not their point anyway, they mean the alts.

[cinder silo]

The alts offer alternatives that might fit the area of deployment which is what I assume the whole point is.

[thorn bane]

i just think you should have more exponential increase
right now the scaling is kinda linear
but im just a progression junky so thats my subjective opinion

[oblique notch]

well look at our Nuclear Rods too. wtf. one rod in the real world lasts 6 years so wtf are SF rods? lol the size of toothpics?

[shrewd yacht]

hehe

[wintry aurora]

19? Why are you asking basic math.

I don’t get your joke.

[shrewd yacht]

kids and their memes

[oblique notch]

Ah! thats a pretty valid opinion - its not a big leap even with a bigger cost - its really just a side grade when talking Trains:Drones:

Costs of drones are more expensive have to have battery production) but the benefits are not having to lay track. Which means all youre really saving is time, the one thing this game does not limit in anyway.

[wintry aurora]

Troll elsewhere would you.

<@&387163995947270144> could you banish this troll from the channel?

[cinder silo]

It is math and meta, NOT troll and meta <@&387163995947270144> please nuke this troll.

[weary ravine]

👀

@drowsy gulchDon't do that please
This is not the place

[cinder silo]

Thankyou ❤️

[drowsy gulch]

A joke isn't gonna hurt you

[wintry aurora]

Try actually being funny.

Anyways, to put this back ontopic, I noticed last night I had made a connection error and was confused exactly how I needed to fix, but then I had an idea of using beams, so, gonna use painted beams to mark down where things are so I can fix this. (yes, one end is obviously not connected, that's after removing the error)

[wintry aurora]

And DOH, now I see it. I guess I was tired last night and crossed wires.

[forest locust]

i think i found the best use of the equipement shop

instead of being not useful

now it is usefull as a wall

[supple belfry]

Equipment shop not useful? Dude. I’m building that thing all the time so I don’t have to clog my inventory with miners…

[short holly]

you can put a door on it too 😉

[forest locust]

how

[short holly]

when it's in the wall like that, you can snap in the big door and it's like a door into yourequipment

[forest locust]

yea

it could work but meh

better open wild

[short holly]

sure, depends on your aesthetic 🙂

[forest locust]

ya

[wintry aurora]

Finished, looks cool, no? :) Now I gotta test this thing, heh. (rebuild the trains, build a fourth pseudo-station, rebuild the buffer tracks....)

[faint ember]

That's a fully-automated train wreck generator without those signals.

I love it.

[wintry aurora]

Lol, thanks.

There may still be a few wrecks depending on if I've made the arms of each star too short.

Pretty sure they're fine, but I'm not absoluttely certain.

[versed violet]

IMO, pout it outside side out, works as a nice front/entrance (if you don't have anything going outside)

[versed violet]

Isn't this just a regular 4 way crossing with double rails? Should be good with just 8 signals total.

[forest locust]

HMM i was thinking of using that ladder

But i am kinda suspended

it kinda work too to get to the roof very easy @versed violet

ty for the idea

[versed violet]

Np, I tried to do that for my tool shack before U5, because it just fits perfectly. Need to revisit that place and put it in now 🙂

[forest locust]

xD

[versed violet]

Weird: My "excel" saving times start to be as long as my game saving times. And I only have 10 sheets in there 😱

[wintry aurora]

Technically, yea, just your nonstandard non-square configuration.

And mostly I want to test for collisions, or any other issues that crop up.

[frosty owl]

I think any error would show up within ~2 hours, so I would feel safe if everything is fine after ~8 hours ^^

[cinder silo]

don't forget my aluminium plant running for eleven days before it folded 🤣

[frosty owl]

Having very delicate factories doesn't have only downsides

[cinder silo]

It's weird I can have power shards made from my semi-automatic biomass/colour cartridge setup but not inhalers.

[frosty owl]

I'm still mad they automated miners and not inhalers

[cinder silo]

I don't need fully automated, just enough that I can throw all the crap in the same can as my solid biomass and colour cartridge mats would be sufficient.

[frosty owl]

I'm not requesting for a alien-organs-collecting machine either, but still...

[cinder silo]

I do follow, we can automate ammo & filters, why not even semi auto for healing.

[cedar garnet]

hey so im distributing 120 fuel between generators at 200% and i used this math to figure out the math shown to figure out i need 5.867971 generators, so i put down 6 with the first 5 set to 200, but im a bit confused as to what i overclock the 6th to bc the decimal there is off the 200% measurement so i cant just plug that number in as a percent. kinda hard to explain but yeah what do i set the last one to?

[frosty owl]

Trying to set it up that precisely might be pointless if you're not accounting for the fluid load loss bug ^^ (5m of "extra" fluid consumed by each machine anytime you load the game)

But, generally speaking, I would clock the last generator so that it takes a little bit less and manage the overflow or a little bit more and expect it to starve eventually
The formula for generators' clocks is on the wiki (clock speed page)

[cedar garnet]

yeah ill prob just have it be a little over consuming bc im essentially using it to get rid of extra oil in my system in exchange for a little power so it doesnt rly need to be precise i guess

[proven prawn]

In the world of math I was trying to figure if there is a point to go above max uranium power, finding it difficult to find meaningful production path's that would be actually use all of that power, for example https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=JBB97mSfncAvPF0eh4ZB seems to be a reasonable long term production plan but it used only up to 508395.284 MW, which 630,000mw would be able to provide without much issue, specifically going above 966,000mw with a meaningful production plan seems to be difficult to figure out. My other idea doing extreme amount of overclocking to attempt to use all of that power🤔

[wintry aurora]

Anybody know whether putting a path signal right in front of a station helps anything at all? I like putting one in front of a station, but I can't tell if it does anything. Might be more useful in a multi station setup though.

[stuck iron]

You'd usually want to put a block in the entrance and exit of the station.

[wintry aurora]

I do that, yes, just wondering if a path signal has any benefit. Can't tell if there is one though.

[stuck iron]

I can't think of one

[cloud swan]

what`s a loop setup for a rail setwork?

like the size and shape of it

[wintry aurora]

What do you mean a loop setup?

[cloud swan]

I mean this

[wintry aurora]

It can be any size or shape really. A loop is a loop, not much to it. Just means you're switching it back to the other track, or rounding a dead end.

[cloud swan]

yeah but I'm a bit limited on space, so I needed it to be as small as possible

[wintry aurora]

It is possible to get some tight curves up to a point, have to lay the track piece by piece, putting down another piece beforehand and connecting can also help.

If you're asking for dimensions, I'm not sure.

[cloud swan]

now that sucks

[soft scarab]

Minimum radius curvature is 3 foundations

So for a full U you’d need at least 6

[cloud swan]

this was supposed to be 6 but somehow it didn`t work, so I did it with 7

[soft scarab]

That’s because you’re doing more than 180 degrees because your tracks are on the inside

[wintry aurora]

Space doesn't look that limited there.

But yeah, it sucks sometimes. I've deleted a section only to have it not work when I try to rebuild.

[wintry aurora]

Try doing it in small chunks at a time, helps with that.

[edgy fiber]

the calculator isnt working this for me, can someone help me with solid biofuel calc with wood instead of grass

so i can run both

[cloud swan]

4 wood, 120/m on a regular constructor

[edgy fiber]

so the biomass constructor at 100% and the biomass to biofuel at 200?

[cloud swan]

biomass constructor at 100% inputs 60 wood/m outputs 300 biomass/m (got the numbers mixed up

[edgy fiber]

ok i think i might have it

i have the biomass constructor at 100% for the 300/m and the biomass to biofuel at 250%

i prolly have my math wrong but i believe that might be it

[stuck iron]

Can you move 300/m of items?

[edgy fiber]

no lmao, but i mean. i dont need 100% efficiency

not yet anyway

[stuck iron]

Then over clocking 250% is a total waste

[edgy fiber]

true

[native marten]

I just set up two containers, one for wood and one for leaves, and feed them both into the constructors making biomass that merge together into the one making biofuel

[stuck iron]

All you are doing is wasting power

[native marten]

though I suppose I could use a smart splitter to separate them and only have the one container for input

[stuck iron]

With no increase in throughput

[edgy fiber]

so what im doing, is 2 inputs(wood and grass), converting each to the mass then into fuel, then merging conveyors and making it output into a single storage

i have grass at best it can be for the conveyor speed i have rn, but idk wat to do with wood

[stuck iron]

Right but you can't feed the solid biofuel constructor with 300/m so overclocking it is not needed

You are probably capped at mk2 belts

[edgy fiber]

yeah

[stuck iron]

So just run the machine so it consumes 120/m

Else you are wasting power

[edgy fiber]

alright, i think i got it now

[stuck iron]

And generally speaking over clocking production machines is not worth it because of how power consumption scales. 1 constructor at 200% uses more power then 2 constructors at 100%. Do overclock miners and extractors though.

[wind spade]

that's super inefficient

[cloud swan]

What's better?

[wind spade]

allowing the train to exit junction in any direction

[cloud swan]

Can you show an example?

[wind spade]

instead of the top situation, you build the red rail, so the train doesn't have to go somewhere to turn around

[cloud swan]

I already have that

[wind spade]

then why do you need the loop

having a loop like that means that trains waste time going in one direction to turn around and then go back

[cloud swan]

Because the train coming from right must visit that station

Clearer image

[wind spade]

same principle:

[cloud swan]

I did that, too much headache

[wind spade]

it's way better to do this than loops

[cloud swan]

Trains kept stopping in that section

[wind spade]

wrong signalling then

[cloud swan]

And not moving, there was a 3 train jam there

[cloud swan]

I suck at signaling and nothing was working, so I made a loop that takes like 10 seconds to move around, so not that big of an issue

[stuck iron]

Loops also need correct signaling

[wind spade]

then loops won't help you, trains can stop there as well

simple signalling (blue = path, red = block)

or, if you want some extra throughput (but at this point it's just better to do 3D junction, if you don't have enough througput)

[cloud swan]

The signaling on the loops is fine, it's been running for like an hour just fine

[wind spade]

it still generates more traffic, because trains have to go longer distance and block both directions for longer when turning

[stuck iron]

Well the diagram greeny posted is worth understanding, it's a super common setup

[wind spade]

simplest way to signal any junction - place path signals on all entrances, block signals on all exits

[stuck iron]

How do the the extra path signals help with throughput? Can a train reserve only part of it's path?

[wind spade]

no, but train releases it's path when it exits the "block"

[stuck iron]

Ah right

[wind spade]

so another train can pass slightly earlier

[stuck iron]

So the size of it's reserved path shrinks faster

[wind spade]

yeah, but as I said, if you're in need of this much throughput, you should rather build non-crossing 3D junction

[oblique hollow]

No signalling needed if tracks dont ever cross

And since this isnt [2D factory game] you can just shwoop above or below

[wind spade]

well you still need signals so that trains don't catch up to other trains, but yeah, no complex signalling, just block signals 🙂

[stuck iron]

Well the tracks need to converge

But I get your point

[shrewd yacht]

where is the lift from water extractors measured from/to?

is it from the middle of the pipe output or at water level?

[frosty owl]

Yes 👍 (middle of pipe output)

I confirm: turning the prioritized belt into a mark higher (so it's not full, incapable of backing up) makes the merge work as expected.
So in my example (270 with 120 merging back to leave 150/min to come out), it was fine fixing it by making half of the mk2 belt connecting the smart splitter to the merger into a MK3 belt (smart splitter is still limited to 120/min on the main output, but the mk2 belt doesn't back up

Can make a nice video clip of it if needed 😁

Ah, @proven prawn

[thorn bane]

nice

[frosty owl]

Bruh... I feel like plutonium cells are just way too radioactive

2 floors of uranium processing, with drone uranium delivery? Barely any radiation at all.
Plutonium processing active up to cells-making, with waste going around? A bit more radioactive, but one can barely tell from the uranium floor right below.

But then you have to stack 30 plutonium cells in each manifacturer to have them start processing... And that's enough to irradiated from the top of the building (plutonium processing) all the way down to the underfloor below the first uranium processing floor That's disgustingly radioactive for a minimum level of radiation

I might just move the cell-processing outside the bulding....

[wind spade]

Radiation stacks from all sources, may not be just the cells, but yeah, they are kinda radioactive

[proven prawn]

yeah tell me about it, the fact that your forced to put so many cells into the machine to have it start without anyway to reduce regardless of clock settings I find unsatisfactory

[frosty owl]

The cells are the biggest source of radiation by far, that's my point :/
Until producing those, one can still use the hoverpack in each floor (plutonium one included) without even feeling radiation (great). When the cells come out the plutonium floor is a bit radioactive (fine). But when they stack to 30 (as needed for the recipe) the radiation extends all the way down 2 floors and a half (reaching the underground floor)
In comparison, having 200 uranium cells inside a manifacturer barely gives off any radiation 😆

[proven prawn]

Dev's want us to suffer with cell radiation

[frosty owl]

... Imma move the production of the rods (using the cells) outside the building, near the powerplant...
The radiation level is way too nice without it

[proven prawn]

yeah if you don't you have basically made all of your efforts to move around the facility without taking radiation damage for naught, though you could always make a empty floor and move it higher

[wicked tinsel]

honestly, the radiation overall isnt very fun game mechanic

[frosty owl]

... Does a manifacturer fit inside the big circle of a particle accelerator?

[oblique hollow]

Imagine if we had proper radiation poisoning

[proven prawn]

Actually it can....hmmm that givings me some interesting design idea's

[abstract ivy]

side of face swells and obstructs screen

[wicked tinsel]

its ok, just glitch into shadow realm using any of displacement bugs and enjoy brand new body in hub

few days ago i discovered that getting driven over with automatic truck may teleport you to 0,0,0

[ashen aurora]

Huh.

[oblique hollow]

Ragdoll fun

[modern geyser]

Has anyone got a spreadsheet or something on how to maximize sink points? Without under clocking.

[wintry aurora]

I've seen a few reddit posts on that.

[modern geyser]

I’ll check

[summer fox]

is overclocking one constructor to 160% the same as build 2 constructor 1 at 100% the other at 60?

[median heath]

From a production standpoint, yes

[cedar ivy]

from an energy consumption standpoint, no.

[wintry aurora]

Hm, uranium waste/m is how many rods/m?

[wind spade]

I think it depends on recipes

[wintry aurora]

Gonna use all default as you need to in order to do plutonium rods properly if sinking them.

[wind spade]

"need"? 🤔

[wintry aurora]

Gonna try a more modest setup, not like 200 or something, to start with.

I'll just try to find it via the waste numbers I guess.

Maybe I should rephrase it, if I have 30 nuclear reactors and am running them at 100%, how many uranium rods/m do I need?

[proven prawn]

consumption 0.2 rods/min so 6/min uranium rods is needed, also can do nuclear plants times 0.2, so 30x0.2 is 6

[wintry aurora]

Ok, thanks.

[edgy fiber]

is it worth overclocking smelters

i wanna make a clean looking factory but i kinda need to overclock to do the same job as the 4 smelters needed

[wind spade]

especially early game it's not worth it

just build more, it has the same effect

but uses way less power

[edgy fiber]

alr

another dumb thing about overclocking

i know that its bad to overclock most of the time(especially early game)

but would it be awful to have 2 constructors at 200% instead of 4 at 100%

[wind spade]

depends, do you want them to use extra 8.2 MW? so 16 -> 24.2 MW

[edgy fiber]

idrc tbh, it seems like a pretty small increase

[wind spade]

it's 50% extra

[edgy fiber]

m

tbh i dont really wanna deal with having to mess around with the 2 constructors and extra splitters.

i mean i could anyway and not be lazy

[wind spade]

it's two constructors (one-time cost) vs more power (permanent cost over time)

[edgy fiber]

i suppose

[versed violet]

What are these trains doing??
I have yellow one waiting in top block for the rail to be free.
Blue loco on right waiting for station to be free
and black train in station, waiting at path sign... for something?? (the rail forward is clear, as these 3 are the only trains in this network.

[stuck iron]

Where is the black trains next stop? Is that track going off to the left bidirectional?

[versed violet]

both tracks are bidirectional. black train goes to left to nearby station

[stuck iron]

And the blue loco needs to dock in the station that the black loco is in?

[versed violet]

no, this one is just passing through to upleft and far away. It is waiting for the black train

[stuck iron]

If the track in the middle is bi directional too that would be the shortest path for the blue train

[versed violet]

station and upper trck are one-way (as arrows specify)

[fierce ruin]

I wanna max my steel pipes (early game) and i only have 120 coal per minute and 120 iron per minute coming in. I have two foundries at 100% what should i have the third one at?

to max it and use all the coal and iron coming in

[soft scarab]

(120-(foundry rate*2))/(foundry rate)

[fierce ruin]

I figured it out but thanks!

[versed violet]

guess what I'd like to do

[sadly does not work]

[stuck iron]

What kind of signaling do you have down the track from the black train? (offscreen)

Its really hard to see exactly whats going on in that image. It almost looks like the center train is poking into the block behind it.

[mossy furnace]

my fuel generators take 12 fuel a min, and my fefineries make 60 fuel a min, i have 5 genertors hooked up. but they keep stopping

@here

i need help

[fierce ruin]

its because the splitters in the pipes give half to one side and the other half to the other output. so then the next fuel generator gets 1/4 and the next gets 1/8 and so on. To fix this I would normally add more refineries to fuel them all.

[mossy furnace]

but once one fills up wouldnt no extra fuel go into it?

[fierce ruin]

thats what i thought but this same problem happened to me

[mossy furnace]

ok thx\

[fierce ruin]

no problem

[frosty owl]

Yes, that's what happens. Fluids'flow balances itself when the pipes are full, though there are factors that can complicate this... @fierce ruin (better just say so, if you're Uncertain of how something work rather than risking spreading wrong assumptions 😉

[frosty owl]

Don't do that
It's rude, it's against the #rules and will more likely get you more dislike then answers

Never use role tags and such without reading the rules in big servers

[wind spade]

not to mention it doesn't work

and I'd change it to "never use here/everyone tags ever"

[frosty owl]

I don't know so many servers to make such assumptions

[wind spade]

pretty much any bigger server has it disabled

bigger = larger than 10 people, unless private community

[frosty owl]

I've seen it used in 30+ people servers...
I guess the world is large ^^

[wind spade]

and also unless you have a really good reason to do it, it's most likely not appropriate

really good reason isn't "please read my message, I need help"

[frosty owl]

Just read the #rules

[wind spade]

I mean as long as it works 🤷‍♂️ but any public server will eventually get a guy that gets in and starts abusing those 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

Assumptions 🤷‍♂️
And how the servers may deal with that is too ^^

[median heath]

Can you put a BEAM on it?

[soft cypress]

if someone is on this server and needs help making turbo motors, and can understand a mess of a chart

i have made this

[median heath]

How many are you making?

[soft cypress]

2/min

its basic

relatively

[median heath]

What recipe are you using?

[soft cypress]

the standard turbo motor recipe

[median heath]

Oof

[soft cypress]

ping me if you want the link, though be mind full, it isnt finalised

[median heath]

I misread, I thought you were looking for help.

My mistake.

[soft cypress]

its ok

[median heath]

Turbo Pressure Motor all day though.

[soft cypress]

ill look into it, and try to make charts player friendly to everyone

[median heath]

I mean, I'm also making 45/min so...

[soft cypress]

dayum, ok

[median heath]

2 per min is fine for like... starting.
😁

[soft cypress]

yeah

[night swallow]

What is the difference between simple and realistic at satisfactory-calculator.com? I use same settings, alt-recipes, input and output, but the number of machines and and the amount of power required is not the same. In the realistic one, there are a lot of machines that run at 19% speed, which seems odd, as they have the same recipes.
Realistic: https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/production-planner/index/index/json/{"Desc_LiquidTurboFuel_C"%3A"2400"%2C"input"%3A{"Desc_LiquidOil_C"%3A"1800"}%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_TurboBlendFuel_C"%2C"Recipe_ResidualPlastic_C"%2C"Recipe_ResidualRubber_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_HeavyOilResidue_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_RecycledRubber_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_DilutedFuel_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Plastic_1_C"]}
Simple: https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/production-planner/index/index/json/{"Desc_LiquidTurboFuel_C"%3A"2400"%2C"input"%3A{"Desc_LiquidOil_C"%3A"1800"}%2C"view"%3A"SIMPLE"%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_TurboBlendFuel_C"%2C"Recipe_ResidualPlastic_C"%2C"Recipe_ResidualRubber_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_HeavyOilResidue_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_RecycledRubber_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_DilutedFuel_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Plastic_1_C"]}

[median heath]

As a proud member of the Church of Tools, I have no idea what you're talking about.

[oblique hollow]

i dont think any calc works right for power production and consumption due to simplisic assumptions regarding overclocking

19% could mean 119% or one at 100% + one at 19%

[ornate shoal]

funny thing about turbo pressure motor, it has negative sink value ratio

[wind spade]

my tool calculates power correctly 🤔

[oblique hollow]

does it now

[wintry aurora]

I havve no idea either, I only used it for the christmas stuff and didn't really notice any differences. It also doesn't display things as clearly as SF Tools does.

Aside from the fact that it doesn't use the more advanced options (SF calculator that is)

[wind spade]

18.6 machines are currently counted as 18x100% machine + 1x60% machine, with proper power calculations

in the future there will be more modes (like all equal underclock)

[wintry aurora]

All equal overclock too? I prefer doing that.

[wind spade]

yeah, it's planned 🙂

(technically it's already implemented, just doesn't have UI for it)

[wintry aurora]

Though in the few instances of tiny decimals like .0001, I've just overclocked one machine slightly to 101%

[night swallow]

Click on both link, and then go to Building tab. There are a difference in the amount of buildings and power consumption, but the difference is that one of them is viewed in realistic mode, and the other in simple mode.

[median heath]

As a proud member of the Church of Tools, I will not click links to heretical texts.

[sullen cloud]

There is a discord of the website‘s developer. You could ask there

[night swallow]

@wind spade I love the Maximize option, as that was the way I found out how much I could make with given resources. Everything there is great, especially the UI, but I just wanted so see how it should be set up, so that's why I also use Satisfactory-calculator.

[wind spade]

you can set it up in any way you want. sfcalc just gives you one random way to do so 🤷‍♂️

[cloud swan]

need a bit of help breaking down, what would the input be in order to achieve a 1200/m of turbo fuel?

[wind spade]

1200/45*[original input]

[cloud swan]

so 600 petrolium coke
600 sulfur
800 residue
400 fuel

how much power can 1200 powerfuel/m sustain?

[stuck iron]

266.666667

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Fuel_Generator

[red marten]

hey im trying to make a full efficient factory, but the thing is im not good at math and im confused.

so should I check how much iron im getting from miners and move on from there? or should I check how much iron recipes the manufacturers need in order to know how much iron i need to get?

[stuck iron]

For builds where you know you want X of an item, its easier to work backwards from the machine that makes the item, IMO. If you just want to consume all of a resource you can start from the miner.

[oblique hollow]

start with end products and work back

from product to input is ALWAYS easier

since thats less open-ended

[stuck iron]

Early game I found I was working from miner forward since you are constrained by belts anyway.

[oblique hollow]

it converges to an end point: raw resources

[red marten]

thanks

[wintry aurora]

In DSP, sometimes it’s easier to work backwards, I’m not sure when or where I’d be able to do that here. I usually do things in chunks, so, it’s more like working it laterally.

Maybe it’s just differences in how production lines are set up between the two games.

[signal nimbus]

So... meta question. Is there enough Iron in the world that I can run my entire iron production off of max solid steel, make all my wire from iron wire, and use Copper Alloy Ingots to produce the Copper Plates I'll need?

[wind spade]

I'd say yes

without any calculations 😄

[signal nimbus]

XD 👍 Okay, cool. I knew there was an excess, but assuming it to be an X-factor without checking and then basing everything else on it felt like it might be a bad idea.

[frosty owl]

Unless you want to maximize HMFs or similar, you'll never run out of iron ^^

[signal nimbus]

Nah... big goal this playthrough is getting to max uranium nuclear, but... we'll see. Never even gotten to the tier before.

[frosty owl]

In other words: nearly every combination of maximized productions that is not centered on iron-only products leads to finishing up every other resource before iron (the leftovers are usually iron and limestone)

[signal nimbus]

Good to know.

[frosty owl]

Nuclear can need more caterium than iron

[signal nimbus]

XD Yeah, I saw that.

Just didn't feel like messing around with pure alts. The fewer liquids in the system, the less likely I'd get some kind of weirdness.

is fully aware that an entire water collection facility is required for nuclear

[frosty owl]

True, but at the same time water is the easiest to deal with (at least when it's not byproduct )

[signal nimbus]

That is fair.

[frosty owl]

Pure recipes are kind of a must for efficiency on large progects :/
Much water, much refining

[signal nimbus]

Well... guess I'll see where I end up. Max solid steel I did the calcs for at some point and thankfully I didn't need all the iron that was produced by pure iron recipes.

[frosty owl]

You could get away with iron alloy too, maybe ^^

[signal nimbus]

Maybe... did they add more copper nodes?

[frosty owl]

Nope

[signal nimbus]

Mkay... might shy away from that, then. Besides, I like my smelter setup.

Kinda want to use it for something.

[upbeat tide]

Would a gas train work? Moving nitrogen from a corner of the map to my non-fissle plant?

Or still better to pipeline gasses

[median heath]

Yes is the answer to both questions.

[stuck iron]

Nitrogen packages really well too

[median heath]

If you're going to train fluids of any kind, packaging is always the way to do it.

[upbeat tide]

Well it must be full throughput as this will be a never ending process

So old rules for fluid trains still apply 🙂

[stuck iron]

I'm sad that is the case

[median heath]

They never stopped applying.

[upbeat tide]

Well with update 5 train changes... took a hiatus for a few months

[median heath]

Fluid cars work correctly now, you can just still fit more per-car by packaging.

[upbeat tide]

A long time ago circa 6 ish months ago I decided to just do long distance conveying 😄

[cloud swan]

is it possible for a aluminum production be self suficient?

[pearl zealot]

it... depends what you mean

[cloud swan]

it requires Bauxite, water, alumina solution, aluminium scraps and silica to produce aluminium ingots and apart from bauxite everything else if either a product or byproduct of anotehr item in the aluminium production

so based on the rates can the aluminium production not require any external inputs from other areas of the factory? (apart from bauxite ofc)

[pearl zealot]

you need at least coal or petroleum coke

[cloud swan]

oh, right

[pearl zealot]

you can use an alt to get rid of the need for silica

[cloud swan]

really?

[pearl zealot]

mhm

another alt gets rid of it as a biproduct as well

it should also be noted that, if you are using the traditional recipe, you will either need to supplement the silica biproduct with some an outside source, or sink 2/3 of your produced aluminum scrap

[sullen cloud]

instead of the latter, better sink that silica byproduct

[pearl zealot]

well yeah, there should not be a circumstance where you are sinking scrap

but the point is the byproduct is not sufficient to use later in the process on it's own and reach full productivity (using the original recipe)

[fringe pawn]

Sloppy alumina, electrode scrap, and pure ingot is probably the simplest combination. Instant scrap+pure ingot is a close second.

Local resources would be a factor in simplicity, though.

[upbeat tide]

You can get very close to closed loop aluminum ingots but no solution will get you there perfectly.

[winter ingot]

So I have two constructors making a total of 520 screws/min, and I need these screws going to 3 places
One line of at least 130 screws
One line of at least 180 screws
One line of at least 200 screws

For the life of me I can't figure out how to balance this, plz help

[signal nimbus]

Looks like each constructor is making 260/minute.

Split one in half to get two lines of 130. Done, easy.
The rest can be merged to one line, then split into two lines of 190. Don't look at me like that, when one side fills up it'll go to the other side no problem and you'll get exactly 200 to one and 180 to the other, and until then the efficiency will be pretty decent.

[winter ingot]

Way simpler than what I was trying to do, thx

[signal nimbus]

Np!

I'm no master of this game, but if you ever have a load balancing question I can usually come up with a pretty decent solution. Or an exact solution if you need it.

In this case, the exact version would be a 1:19 splitter setup, merging 9 lines into 1 and the other 10 into the second.

But that's just disgusting.

[halcyon delta]

@signal nimbus Is it smart to send the polymer resin into the sink for tickets?

[upbeat tide]

9/10 scenarios you need to balance just a basic overflow balancer gets the job done with soo much less hastle

[upbeat tide]

Yes if you have nothing to use resin with.

If you have the polymer fabric alt resin befomes kinda useful, or you want to use residual rubber/plastic recipes

You must use it for something as resin is a byproduct

Either sinking I mean

[winter ingot]

I would use an overflow if one of the lines didn't need to travel for a LONG distance

[halcyon delta]

Yeah but I have like seven oil spots so I don't need the byproduct

[upbeat tide]

Than sink 🙂

[halcyon delta]

I've also got an overflow of residual heavy but that I have running into another packager into a refinery to be turned back into fuel and packaged to make fuel for mesa jetpack 🙂

[oblique notch]

dont balance it. Just stick em on a manifold and split. After time the lines will "back up" (fill) and the other lines will catch up.

[signal nimbus]

@halcyon delta "Smart" is a matter of perspective.

If you're trying to simplify a production chain, then yes. That's exactly the right move so you don't have to also process that into Residual Rubber, Residual Plastic, or Polyester Fabric.

If you're going for maximum efficiency, and I'm assuming this is coming from a Fuel plant as part of a power plant setup, I'd grab some Water and go for Plastic to go right into making Empty Canisters, then use a smart splitter to split the overflow into a Polyester Fabric plant for the same reason. Repeat for the sink.

If long-range transportation is feasible with your setup, you can train it out of there and process it in a Recycled Plastic/Rubber setup.

@upbeat tide I don't disagree. I use overflow all the time. But just because I use that method doesn't mean I'm not good at the other one. It's the most useless niche talent to have in the game, but dang it, it's my best one.

If for absolutely no other reason than whenever someone asks about load balancing the answer is "just overflow".

[cloud swan]

if I have 2 oil extractors doing 300/m and a line that requires 600/m do I merge the 2 inputs or leave them independent?

[signal nimbus]

Top of my head? Maybe run them through a flow stabilizer each and then merge them.

[oblique notch]

if you need a full 600m/3 and you are going any amount of distance or have a lot of pipe junctions, dont merge them. keep them apart. it reduces the wonkyness

id recomend not going above 580m/3 on any given line

[frosty owl]

Oh, a cultured pioneer, I see
Lete test your knowledge then and ask you about the risks of backfeed balancing ^^ (when you merge part of the output back with the input, eg: split a full MK1 from a full MK4 and merge it back onto the MK4 to obtain 420/min)

[wind spade]

Another option is to instead build 3 screw constructors and underclock them so that they make the exact needed amount of screws

[frosty owl]

Which is the favorite approach for load-balanced sushi too. Cultured greeny

[wind spade]

For me it's just "1:1 where possible, if not do manifold, if not... then it's some weird issue ans should be solved in a different way so that I can do 1:1 or manifold".

[upbeat tide]

This is my current piece of crazy. Max possible non-filmssle material from what 94.5 uranium rods make in waste

[frosty owl]

Burning through a stockpile of uranium waste? ^^

[upbeat tide]

More like total waste production. From consuming all uranium rods in the world

[frosty owl]

Uranium rods cap at 50.4 though? 🤔

The lowest you can get is 41.666... Uranium ore per Uranium Fuel Rods
Thus 2100 uranium/min makes 50.4 uranium fuel rods/min

[upbeat tide]

Yup

Which is 2520 waste max

[frosty owl]

So where does the 94.5 fit it?

[upbeat tide]

Memory lapse

Old uranium total. Realized after typed

Update 3 before uranium changes

[frosty owl]

Gotcha 👍

[upbeat tide]

And ultimately will make 24.4 ish plutonium rods

[frosty owl]

Ah, made the merging-issue-thingy video, @thorn bane
https://youtu.be/v4j8pw7L5b8

Details in the description

[thorn bane]

👍

[thorn bane]

is there a way to build a sqrt(2) splitter

[wind spade]

don't think so (if we don't assume manifolds)

[balmy valley]

How many power storage buildings for a Normal Geyser / Geothermal Generator?

[oblique hollow]

like.... 2 probably?

[balmy valley]

Oh man I just done 6

It's a noisy boi mind

[oblique hollow]

the normal node does 100 to 300 MW

and they can charge at a rate of 100 each

average is 200 MW.... hocus pocus
maybe 3 is needed, not sure

[cinder silo]

So my 7200 is a couple too many ? 🙂

[median heath]

Total variance of the entire system is only like 400 MW since they desynced them.

So I don't even bother with storages in U5.

[balmy valley]

Oh cool thanks. I think I have spent my time unwisely

[median heath]

Eh. If you had fun then it wasn't wasted time.

[wind spade]

unless you need all the power, you don't really need any power storages

and you should have some extra power anyway

[merry kernel]

Mostly batteries connected to the grid just mean you've built that much more over your capacity before the world cries out in anguish and you have to go build more power capacity.

[oblique hollow]

oooor you have fluctuating power sources and want to use them effectively

[upbeat tide]

Or your like me and puta grid of 20x20 batteries on the roof of a factory for “asthetics”

[versed violet]

As a rule of thumb - look what the dif between low and high power one has, and as many batteries as 100Mw diff it has. Eg normal node 100mw-300mw = two batteries.

[balmy valley]

Cool thanks 😄

[median heath]

I wouldn't even do this though because they are not synced.

@balmy valley them being desynced means some are high while others are low and they cover each other. So your best bet if you want to actually use storage is just to watch your power grid for like 2 mins. Check the highest the total grid gets to vs. the lowest the total grid gets to and build that many.

[versed violet]

It is not guaranteed they are desynced in a same way on every save load I think?
The 'safest' method is to put down as many batteries as the difference between high and low in 100 of MW. This works for setup with single geo gen, two geo gens, up to whole map. Do not assume everyone has tapped all the geo spots on the map.

[median heath]

See second reply as I cover how I would determine battery amount 🙃

[versed violet]

See the first line of my last reply. The phase shift between geo generators may or may not be constant between saves or per game map. The safest and least headache option is to just put down batteries per generator, especially if someone decided to cut them out for separate grid later (like powering section of nuclear for example)

[median heath]

Not sure how watching a power strip for a minute is a headache... but ok.

[wintry aurora]

Pretty sure they tend to sorta average out?

[frosty owl]

I think Tom is saying the difference you're looking at might be less than the max possible due to the synchrony thing, Sev

[median heath]

?
The difference on the power graph will be your max possible, which is less than what the max would be if they were sync'd.
His position is in favor of more Power Storages, mine is in favor of less.

[wintry aurora]

Question on nukes: What is the best way to do a clean nuclear setup? I know Taromani has said that the best way to do it is to use base recipes only, but the other day Greeny was like 'need?', so, I'm wondering what are the opinions here? I'm thinking of doing a small setup of maybe 15 so that if things go wrong, they don't go catastrophically wrong, plus it's still in range of where I can support with current power infrastructure without building new power stuff. Also, I'm planning on having the plutonium rod production be slightly more than the actual waste by 1 or 2 ppm so that it can absorb doggo waste if I ever get to doggo farming (yes, I know what some peoples opinions are). Things are in no way finalized yet, so, I don't have a plan I can give, also, I'm thinking of doing it via outposting with a rail sytemm. Though Taromanis experience with it could mean that I just do drones for the uranium itself, or belts.

(let me know if it needs to be clearer, got kinda rambly, lol)

[fringe pawn]

I would say you'll want more waste reduction capacity in case you have a problem and you have waste back up at some point. If you accidentally let the setup run for hours and hours and several stacks back up, 2ppm is going to take a long time to get rid of that.

[wintry aurora]

Fair then and good point, what about the main question regarding using alts or not?

[signal nimbus]

All right... challenge accepted. If I'm answering the wrong question, lemme know. (I'm also expecting to get this wrong and learn something :) )

If I'm understanding the situation correctly, you're intentionally slowing down the output rate of a belt.

Lowest hanging fruit I can see is that it'll back up the line before it, causing those machines to back up, which could have ripple effects that kinda wreck the purpose of load balancing like this. When load balancers turn into over flows, there's an issue. Granted, if it's coming from a miner, it should be fine.

Slightly more nuanced description from my understanding, and you probably understand this better than me, is that the merger on the 480 will try to take every other item from the 60 belt, as opposed to the 480. It cant, the next item isn't there, so it'll take the 60 at basically full speed (not quite but close enough for Fixit) but then stagger the 480 every 8 items or so.

Never done that, tbh, so... what'd I miss?

[frosty owl]

You nailed the mechanics, though not quite the usecase, so... Test passed 😆

The device I was referring to is in fact one that (ideally) should slow down an input to 420/min exactly. But, as you have pointed out, the MK1 belt could actually back up every so often, meaning such a balancer isn't complete with only this ^^ (video example of the device and how to make it output reliably: https://youtu.be/v4j8pw7L5b8 )

[fringe pawn]

Not a simple question. For producing uranium rods, the alt recipes get you more rods per unit of uranium. If this is the difference between using a single node or using 2 nodes based on how much power you want to produce, that's a big deal.

[signal nimbus]

Interesting... all right, what's the use case?

[wintry aurora]

I also looked and eabling all alts makes it use more than twice, almost three times actually, the amount of power than base radioactives only.

[frosty owl]

I use it to limit the inflow of uranium in my nuclear factory (coming from a drone), to minimize radiation.
I also use similar balancers sometimes around unloading stations

@wintry aurora You're planning on all altrs for uranium processingthough, right?

[wintry aurora]

I'm asking what's better, it's my first nuke setup, so, I don't know what's the best way to go about it.

[signal nimbus]

Looked into that recently. If you go with the simplest chain (10x@240% Infused Uranium Cell > 10@240% Uranium Fuel Rod > 48 Reactors > 4x@240% Fertile Uranium > 4x@240% Plutonium Pellet > 12x@240% Encased Plutonium Cell > 12x@160% Plutonium Fuel Rod), it'll come out to 48 reactors for 840 Uranium total with most of the lines matching up perfectly.

Best? No, but it's got the fewest crazy inputs.

[wintry aurora]

I'm starting it out at a more modest 15 reactors though, at least that's the plan.

[signal nimbus]

I dont know of a good factory design for those numbers... I can cut it to 12 pretty easily, just not 15.

[frosty owl]

I was assuming you were only questioning the plutonium alts
I don't know much about your preferences in this regard, but I would suggest alts for uranium processing steps. For the cells because it gets rid of fluids shenanigans (less failure points), for the rods because then they line up 1:1 with the cells at 100%

[wintry aurora]

I don't have preferences as I don't know what I need or should do. And I'll look into the uranium alts. The plutonium ones might be the ones blowing up the power usage.

[frosty owl]

Assuming using the alt for the uranium rods, you can hook up 3 generators to each rod manufacturer

[signal nimbus]

3 for the alt, 2 for the normal.

[wintry aurora]

Maybe Taromani meant no plutonium alts?

[frosty owl]

Plutonium is actually the easiest for power imo 😆
By the time you need to process waste, you should already be producing a lot of power

[frosty owl]

I'm inclined to think so ^^

[pulsar idol]

I rather sink the plutonium instead of using

[signal nimbus]

Personally I prefer the OG Uranium Fuel Rod recipe, needs less craziness than the units, but Uranium Fuel Unit does produce 50% more.

[wintry aurora]

Yea, I'd rather not need to store the plutonium waste.

[pulsar idol]

But since I just unlock tiers 7 and 8, I need to setup some drone ports and other stuff

[pulsar idol]

I forgot, what's the recipe for it

[wintry aurora]

Alt or base?

[pulsar idol]

Base

[signal nimbus]

OG: 20 Encased Uranium Cell + 1.2 Encased Industrial Beam + 2 Electromagnetic Control Rod = 0.4 Uranium Fuel Rod

[wintry aurora]

If using 15 reactors, would assuming a waste production of 200 be enough of a backup, as redmaw recommended?

[pulsar idol]

Wew.....

[frosty owl]

@wintry aurora on the other hand, recipes for plutonium processing... It really comes down to preference 😅
Each route offers advantages, I think you can just choose the one that looks the nicest or most convenient to you, given the scale ^^

[wintry aurora]

Using all alts triples power usage though....

[signal nimbus]

I'd assume 150. That's exactly what you'll be getting.

Ignore power usage.

[frosty owl]

I'd even assume 155 or 160, but I'm also known for not shying away from small margins of error :P

[signal nimbus]

Just build batteries and store charge if needed, the nuclear plants will help a lot.

[wintry aurora]

Yes, but they recommened I have more backup than what I originally planned. #math-and-meta message

[frosty owl]

By the time you're processing waste, all your nuclear power is running already
Would you still not have enough power then?! O.o

[wintry aurora]

I'm considering startup power for the whole thing.

[pulsar idol]

I wonder how long it takes for a full setup is started

[signal nimbus]

Do what you're comfortable with.

[wintry aurora]

Since I want it to start proccessing right away, or ASAP anyhow.

[signal nimbus]

Never a bad thing to have more waste processing than less.

[frosty owl]

You cannot process plutonium with your nuclear reactors offline. The rest of the processing should account for half or less of the power (waste-involving steps all require the most power-hungry machines: manifacturers, blenders and particle accelerators)

I think worrying about power consumption when dealing with nuclear is quite nonsensical, tbh 😅 😆

[wintry aurora]

Well, first time setting it up, ok?

[frosty owl]

Fair. But really, by the time your plutonium facility starts going in full swing, your reactors will be making power from a while already. The factory will most likely be just stalling and waiting for waste in the meanwhile

Even in the best case scenario, it takes >15 minutes to go from uranium ore to the first waste barrel. Meanwhile the whole plutonium facility is just waiting

[wintry aurora]

It's the instant plutonium cell that's really blowing up power usage looks like.

[frosty owl]

That's in PAs, right?

[wintry aurora]

Didn't check, but would make sense.

[frosty owl]

Just check the machines involved in the different production steps and it should be clear how the facility won't require much power before the waste starts coming (and by then, you have power)

[signal nimbus]

Or heck, swap that recipe if you want.

[frosty owl]

All plutonium recipes require PAs, though I dunno which one wants the least PAs for the same waste...

[wintry aurora]

I think Taromanis point was more that you'd really only be using the pltonium alts if you wanted to use it for power and maximize the amount of plutonium rods.

[signal nimbus]

150 waste, eh? One moment...

Are you going Fertile Uranium or Non-fissile Uranium?

[wintry aurora]

Haven't decided on that one.

[signal nimbus]

K... gimme a few, gotta drive home. I'll ping you.

[wintry aurora]

Haven't decided what other alts I'll use yet.

and 'k

Uranium fuel units require beacons? What's up with that?

[frosty owl]

If I knew any of your preferences in building I could do more than just agreeing with his point 😆

Some routes may lead to less machinery than others, some make more rods, other save some resources... Plenty of preferences to fulfill, unless one is fine with just "make the fewest rods possible" ^^

[frosty owl]

Funfact: The ratios are quite nice. Normal beacons at 96% feed 6 fuel unit manifacturers

[wintry aurora]

Normal is handmade, IMO.

[frosty owl]

Do I smell heresyinefficiency?!

But yeah, good chance to finally automate those suckers~

[wintry aurora]

I just mean terminology....

[frosty owl]

It flew over my head 🙃

[pulsar idol]

Btw is there a website to track the amount of items use for say nuclear power plant?

[frosty owl]

You could take the chance to sushi-load-balance a beacons production
That's actually very easy and safe to do if you do them all-iron ^^ (providing a constant feed of iron ingots is quite easy... Right? 😅)

[wintry aurora]

Production chain or the building itself?

[frosty owl]

SFTools is the one you're probably looking for ( )

[wintry aurora]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production is a commonly used one, SCIM has it's own as well.

Anyways, beacons is still a weird thing to add to the rods.

[frosty owl]

Btw, are you planning ore-to-rods or have aviable production to pull from?

[wintry aurora]

Planning ore to rods, though I can pull from the steel smeltery (over 2k steel ingots over there) I already set up, and I have a place to pull nitrogen from if needed, everything else needs to be made since I'm thinking of doing it with outposting with railroads. Though given taromanis experience with radioactive trains, I'll probably just use drones instead, or belt it, not sure.

@frosty owl

[pulsar idol]

Thank u

[versed violet]

is there any trick to make bioburners charge power storage?

[wintry aurora]

Just need at least one idle machine on there, though they'll just throttle low I guess, haven't used them to charge power storage.

[fringe pawn]

Try connecting a single geyser to the same network? Or any other power production building.

[versed violet]

connected an empty coal generator, but bioburner does not want to kick into full power

[wintry aurora]

Try a constructor or something, it just needs a tiny bit to actually activate. Had that issue when I attempted to use biofuel burners to power the hoverpack for a thing.

[versed violet]

Already attached a constructor, it does power hoverpak when I have one on, but does not charge the power store 😕

[wintry aurora]

Probably because it throttles to match power needs.

[fringe pawn]

Bio burners specifically try to not charge power storage.

[versed violet]

seems so.
It would be nice if there was a trick to make them to. Though of making backup battery that recharges itself when not used, but doesn't waste fuel when full.

[cinder silo]

It seems I missed a whole nuclear discussion while I was out haha.

[fierce ruin]

Can someone help me solve this 2/3 (x ^ 2 + 4) ^ (1/2) (x ^ 29) ^ ((2) / 3) x (x ^ 29) ^ (1/3) (x ^ 2 + 4) ( (1) / 2)) / (x ^ 2 + 4)

[wintry aurora]

What is the x value?

[wintry aurora]

Theres something wrong with the equation, one thing I tried said the expression is incomplete, another said I'm missing one or more parenthesises, and one asks me what the value of x is. I'd link it, but it's probably not whitelisted.

[signal nimbus]

@wintry aurora Mkay... 150 waste, minimum particle accelerators. So...

Option 1: Non-fissile Uranium > Plutonium Pellets > Encased Plutonium Cell
Assume a module of 2x Non-fissile Uranium Blenders to 1 Plutonium Pellet Particle Accelerator requiring 100 waste in total. Your ratio is 1 PA : 100 waste, so 150 waste = 1.5 PA.

Option 2: Fertile Uranium > Plutonium Pellets > Encased Plutonium Cell
Assume a module of 1 Fertile Uranium Blender to 1 Plutonium Pellet PA requiring 50 waste in total. Your ratio is 1 PA : 50 waste, so 150 waste = 3 PA.

Option 3: Non-fissile Uranium > Instant Plutonium Cell
Assume a module of 3 Non-fissile Uranium Blenders to 2 Instant Plutonium Cell PAs requiring 112.5 waste in total. Your ratio is 4 PA : 250 waste, so 150 waste = 2.4 PA.

Option 4: Fertile Uranium > Instant Plutonium Cell
Assume a module of 3 Fertile Uranium Blenders to 4 Instant Plutonium Cell PAs requiring 75 waste in total. Your ratio is 4 PA : 75 waste, so 150 waste = 8 PA.

Conclusion: If you want to avoid building a lot of Particle Accelerators, stick with Non-fissile Uranium. The difference between the options after that is negligible, given you can underclock the PAs in Option 3 since you're already building three of them anyway. Might as well run them at 80%. Option 2 isn't bad either.

Mkay... back to factory building.

[upbeat tide]

^^

For the above im doing max possible option 3. Will let you know my sanity after 80+ particle accelerators 😄

[fierce ruin]

400 nuclear plants?

[wintry aurora]

If you underclocked them, sure.

Not sure what the point of that would be though.

[wintry aurora]

I see, thanks. I thought it was the instant plutonium blowing up the power cost, didn’t really look at it in full. I was gonna do 200 for the excess (though MAYBE I could dial that down a little), but the numbers will still be equivalent.

[upbeat tide]

Well maybe once done. Its 252 just for the uranium rods and yea OC’d

[fierce ruin]

A million megawatts?

My factory is at tier 8 and isn’t even at 50k

What are you building? Manhattan?

[signal nimbus]

...I can't speak for Verios44, but...

[upbeat tide]

Well, one of my factories makes max possible aluminum ingots, using sloppy alu + electrode scrap + pure alu ingot

[vapid gorge]

Wouldn't max be using the base recipe for the last step?

[vapid gorge]

But yeah once you start making large hubs 50gw doesn't stretch that far. At least if you're overclocking some key buildings to not have monster structures everywhere

My 150gw power station takes almost 14gw on it's own to maintain XD

[upbeat tide]

Yes but then your using an obsene amount of silica. Soo much its almost 80% of the entire possible silica production for the whole map.

And the difference isnt that great. It from 9780 with pure alu to around 13k with base

Thats my alu factlry. The smelters are on two floors

[upbeat tide]

Soo I just did a rough estimate of the pipelines carrying nitrogen to my non-fissle factory. In total im looking at north of 70km of pipline

I do need to redo the nuclear reactors. They arent stable. 250% OC issues

[pulsar idol]

How many reactors is that

Like damm

And also is that one overclocked water extractor per reactor?

Cause I do remember if u overclock a water extractor it's enough for just one reactor

[upbeat tide]

63 in that image. Yes with two 250% water pumps each

[pulsar idol]

So two of them

I can see one being used per reactor tho

[pulsar idol]

I can see one in that image

[upbeat tide]

May give a better idea

[pulsar idol]

Ohhh it's two u using correct?

[upbeat tide]

Yup 2:1 ratio

[pulsar idol]

Damm

How do u even store the two water extractors

I mean place

[upbeat tide]

Thats fairly easy, just hold alt while placing and they snap

[pulsar idol]

Huh?

Never done that soo idk

[wintry aurora]

You mean the grid snap? That doesn’t always work though.

[thorn bane]

@frosty owl thoughts about using default encased uranium cells instead of infused to reduce building count?
(also another fun reason to build my VIP design )

[muted storm]

How do I conveyer belt math my way from 60 to 18.

I can go 60 -> 30 -> 15. Then I need 3 more.
Or I can go 60 -> 30 -> 10. Then I need 8 more.

🤔

[oblique hollow]

Easy: dont

[muted storm]

:sadge:

[wind spade]

manifold ftw

[muted storm]

huh?

[thorn bane]

imagine not having a program that does that automatically

[wind spade]

--S--S--S
  |  |  |
  X  X  X

S = splitter
X = machine

[muted storm]

Dang, did you write that?

[oblique hollow]

Overflow takes care of those odd numbers

[thorn bane]

nope
https://github.com/IceMoonMagic/Satisfactory-Splitter-Calculator

[oblique hollow]

Thanks, its a monstrosity

😂

[muted storm]

It's beautiful 😉

[oblique hollow]

Just change the clock number so it doesnt need 18

[wind spade]

and pointless

[muted storm]

omg guys relax

[thorn bane]

you know whats also beautiful?
1 splitter that outputs 18/42 because the 18 belt is full

[oblique hollow]

Aka manifold

[muted storm]

I know about manifolds. Which is suprising, because I only just installed this 1,100 hours ago 😉

[wind spade]

then use them 😛

[oblique hollow]

Great, now try reducing 60 to 8.5714285714285714.....

ZyRa wheres the magic prime balancer

[muted storm]

No. I'm building a part factory that drones exactly the amount needed to each client factory. At certain factories the excess will be sunk, so I don't want to be droning more than needed if possible.

[wind spade]

make set of machines that produce 18 and hook that to the drone

[muted storm]

Sigh. Forget I asked.

[wind spade]

then make a set of machines that produce 42 and hook that elsewhere

[muted storm]

Sorry to bother you.

[wind spade]

? we gave you your solution, we gave you alternative solutions, what's the matter?

[oblique hollow]

I mean...... It would be precise and also work better than the funny balancer

[muted storm]

It definitely would! But I wanted to try this strategy.

[thorn bane]

ez

[muted storm]

You just told me not to do what I asked about.... ZyRaNex answered me.

[muted storm]

haha amazing

[frosty owl]

Verios, what's up with your numbers these days? 😅 😆
Maybe I'm splitting the hair here, but maxing out aluminium production uses less than 50% the total amount of quartz in the world, leaving more than enough to maximize nuclear and still make a decent amount of electronics (no maximized productions there, ofc, but still plenty of production aviable) ^^

[wind spade]

I told you alternate solutions after your main question was answered by zyranex. I see no need to repeat their solution, but I figured I may mention other ways to reach the same goal.

[thorn bane]

meanwhile me making silica from alumina solution because it uses less buildings than default silica

[oblique hollow]

Alumina Superiority

[muted storm]

I appreciate that, it's just a bit aggressive to call ZyRaNex's helpful answer "pointless" 😉

[thorn bane]

i mean i agree its pointless because you should do manifolds xD

[wind spade]

I call balancers pointless because honestly they are. Pretty much only use for them is if the player wants to try balancers 🤷‍♂️

[oblique hollow]

I mean, its nice but im definitely too lazy to ever use that

Manifold wins cause heck nah im too lazy to balance

[muted storm]

Yeah my entire factory is manifold, and overflow from the drones goes to a sink. I hate load balance with a passion :). I just wanted to try this strat here.

"If you can't do it with right angles, it shouldn't exist" 😉

I'm going to trademark that xD

[oblique hollow]

45° is half of a right angle and thats fair to me

[muted storm]

🤣

[frosty owl]

Sure, here it is
||But sure, whatever gets you less machines is better for lag, so why not? ^^||
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments /456117300446232578/840230672713908334/Nuclear_Guru.jpg

[thorn bane]

hahaha

[muted storm]

I'm replacing this factory my friend built because it made me want to delete my entire hard drive after looking at it.

[frosty owl]

I've never considered that, but I doubtthe cuts in alu production that would cause would be worth it in my plan :/

[oblique hollow]

Aluminum Sushi

Or wait.....

Sulfuric Acid?

[thorn bane]

it means i actually dont need any extra silica its insane

[oblique hollow]

Nah wait i see bauxite, thats alu

[frosty owl]

I'm not hoping for mixed pipes anymore, so I just mix packaged fluids

[muted storm]

He made a 20/m battery + who-knows-how-many/m packaged nitric acid thing

[thorn bane]

oh im also planning to do default rubber -> coke steel

[muted storm]

I replaced it with a separate 200/m battery plant and converted this into a packaged nitrogen + packaged nitric acid plant.

[frosty owl]

I think I'll have to yeld and re-route some ores coming in the factory to better manage belts throughput. The good thing is that it's relatively easy to do (cleanly) despite the small space, just add a pogger or even just edit some rules

||Reference to #screenshots message ||

[muted storm]

What's with the spoiler tags?

[frosty owl]

Just adding non-necessary details to my message

While the beltwork area is the one in that video, unfortunately that doesn't show the specific couple of belts I'm referring to

[thorn bane]

i wonder if sushi belts are actually better for fps
its less belts but i feel like its the number of items that matters not belts
also smart splitters might be more fps expensive

[frosty owl]

Ben already confirmed the number of items on belt makes no difference, while it's unknown if smort and poggers are heavier on CPU than normal splitters (and if they do, if the difference is noticeable or not). So my assumption atm is that yes, it helps with FPS if you can reduce beltwork needed with it

[thorn bane]

hm for rendering sure but the items still have to be simulated by the cpu right?

[frosty owl]

The whole belt and items is represented by a shader, so the number of items just means different values on a "texture", the number of them doesn't affect calculations (other than showing imprecision when close to belts limits ofc )

The only point I could think of in favor of lower item/min belts is that they might require less CPU power when splitting or merging due to their low item count (assuming that splitting a "fuller" belt is more CPU-intensive than splitting one with less items)

[thorn bane]

i was kinda thinking about adhered vs bolted plated and was wondering if adhered might actually be better beecause less items

[frosty owl]

I think the best one is just the one that uses less machines (and almost by extension, also less belts), in this perspective

[thorn bane]

god i really wish we had more information on what is actually using cpu power, like this in factorio

[frosty owl]

Keep the F word for #off-topic-general

[oblique hollow]

Factory Math: 100%

Lizard Doggo Power Suppressor: ??? %

[upbeat tide]

If you cut out normal alumnia solution and max aluminum ingots your looking at 9780 quartz usage. The map has a tad over 10k raw quartz. Yes its alot less if you dont use sloppy solution for quartz usage.

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=TymORdDQ7kAWgzuZrGC3

@frosty owl

Swap out sloppy alu your only ising 5705 quartz but than making 10866 max alu ingots. Making all of 1086 more ingots for the cost of 5k quartz just doesnt seem like a good trade imo.

Because pure alu would get you 9780.

[oblique hollow]

Instant Scrap should be instant ingots

So you can use it to dunk on sloppy + electrode users

[frosty owl]

I think the first step in reducing quartz usage would be using cheap silica instead of normal silica 😅
THEN it might be convenient to cut further cut down the usage by making use of pure ingots ^^

[oblique hollow]

Obviously the best usage for silica is fine concrete

Cheap silica + fine concrete for no benefit whatsoever

[frosty owl]

That'd actually be interesting, I don't feel much appeal in that recipe atm othe than offering different production chains for the same result (but still very similar number of machines and same bauxite efficiency iirc)

[oblique hollow]

Same efficiency as sloppy + electrode, yea

[upbeat tide]

Ugh

Cheap silica was supposed to be activated for that 🤦‍♂️

Ok so without normal alumnia its 6985 silica via cheap silica. Still only leaves you appx 3k

[frosty owl]

It IS active, the plan just doesn't use it to... Save in limestone 😆

[frosty owl]

~2/3 of total silica
More than the ~1/2 I recalled but less than the "nearly 80%" you mentioned ^^

[upbeat tide]

Yes. And with normal alu it goes to 4k which isnt too bad. But that still doesnt solve the question is it worth it for the total ingot made difference?

Yea not disputing that 🙂

[frosty owl]

Eh, only if one wants to maximize alu completely, I guess. One has enough leftover for just nuclear and ~60 ADS/min iirc

[upbeat tide]

Yea and that is why I chose the silica-less road

My main silica uses so far

1. Uranium fuel rods via the HSC and encased cell alts
2. Non-fissle uranium

[median heath]

#Solica

My personal main use for it is HSCs.
Over half my Qtz budget is Oscillators.

[upbeat tide]

Yea I use thebalt for oscillators. Its glorious.

[thorn bane]

silicon circuit board uses some 🙂

[upbeat tide]

I use caterium circuit boards. But also silicon boards is good option too.

[median heath]

Ct for CBs all day every day.

Mainly because I'm swimming in.

[thorn bane]

well if you do default alumina solution youre swimming in silica 🤷

[median heath]

Sloppy is better-per-baux though isn't it?

[thorn bane]

yes

but since it makes alu and silica you save like 2x the buildings which is quite nice

[upbeat tide]

Yes

[median heath]

Fair.
My bottom-line is usually per-resource.
There are a few things I do based on building simplicity though.

[upbeat tide]

Well for alu its more a game of how much quartz do you want to commit?

[thorn bane]

*or get out of it xD

[upbeat tide]

Yup

[median heath]

Baux is my limiting resource so 🤷‍♂️

[upbeat tide]

I use a mod called micro manage that I can use to get full 1200 ore out of a pure node.

[wintry aurora]

Perhaps, but he has his stance on mods.

[median heath]

Mods 🤢

[upbeat tide]

All good. This one Is as close to what vanilla should be. All I use it for is to create a connection from the miner to a splitter.

[median heath]

"Should be" 🤬

[wind spade]

@ moderator Sevrahn is not happy with you

[magic shadow]

mwoderator owo

[upbeat tide]

Lol

[wintry aurora]

Lol greeny.

[upbeat tide]

I also hate maxing mk5 belts, and having almost all production lines fed with 600 belts is just soo much nicer.

[median heath]

So you mod in a different kind of belt too.
🤢

[upbeat tide]

No

[median heath]

Then what is a 600 belt?

[upbeat tide]

A not full capacity mk5

[wind spade]

belt that has 600m3 on it?

[wintry aurora]

I think they meant 600 individual belts?

Which is probably an exaggeration.

[upbeat tide]

🤦‍♂️I mean a single belt moving 600/min instead of 780

[median heath]

I'm confused as to why you clarified you hate making mk5s then?

[upbeat tide]

Now im confused 🙂

[median heath]

Maxing... not making..
I'm outside so there is glare. My bad.

[upbeat tide]

Ooh

I was trying to say since maxed mk5 belts can be buggy and just behave better at 750 a min or less

[median heath]

Making things move in 600s is nice, but when you mix belts like I do, you will be maxing them out pretty often.

[wintry aurora]

That’s understandable.

[upbeat tide]

Yea I almost never mix belts.

[cinder silo]

I started mixing belts for low throughput applications, simplified some of my more complicated crap by far.

[median heath]

Sushi Manifolds are so nice though.

Save so much space.

[wind spade]

not like space is limited 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Technically it is 😉

Map does have boundaries.

[wind spade]

practically isn't tho

you can't even cover 1/10th of the map with foundations before you reach object limit

[upbeat tide]

Uum sure there are boundaries but the m3 of available area is beyond insane

[wind spade]

even m2 is impossible to fill

even if you'd assume no foundations and builidng on the ground

[median heath]

Ok, but this doesn't mean some people don't care about saving space..

[sly fjord]

There is an object limit?

[wintry aurora]

Yea, and even counting for variations in the 2km sky border vs the ground, you’ve got a kilometer and a half worth of sky height to build in.

[upbeat tide]

Techniclly yes. Engine limit

[short holly]

more compact factory = easier to traverse, make pretty etc

[median heath]

So I'm happy the map is large, but I enjoy mixing belts A) because almost no one else does and B) because it saves space

[cinder silo]

I know, I hit it hard during an aborted emergency power project 😦

[wintry aurora]

To be fair, you already had a ton of stuff.

[upbeat tide]

You CAN increase the limit via .ini files but its into your own risk then

[cinder silo]

Its one reason for my mass demolitions.

[wind spade]

and that also doesn't mean that some people can't argue against saving space 🤷‍♂️

[short holly]

exact reason i used sushi for my mall and base spelevator parts, didn't need to be above mk5 so all good

[thorn bane]

well its not like saving space is a bad thing

[sly fjord]

Is it hard/easy to hit that limit?

[upbeat tide]

I may have breached obj limit 3 times now

[short holly]

but it doesn't mater - that's the great thing about satisfactory! do it your way

[wind spade]

yeah, I'm fine with having a setup smaller, but if that means extra configuration of splitters, I just don't like it 🤷‍♂️

[upbeat tide]

If you are a mad builder

[sly fjord]

So I take that as hard

[thorn bane]

very hard

[wind spade]

pretty hard. With normal playthrough you most likely won't hit it. If you start maxing out resources, you're very likely to hit it late in the game

[upbeat tide]

For ME its very easy and common

[sly fjord]

I have no idea how much I will build at the end of my game

[wintry aurora]

If you build big, yea, I can see that happening.

[cinder silo]

The main reason I hit the limit is due to changing my power, I had a huge turbo fuel power station, then swapped to 100 nukes + infrastructure, the turbo fuel plant has since been taken down.

[thorn bane]

and as someone already said you can just increase it in a config file

[wintry aurora]

Though as taromani found, that can still cause the engine/game to freak out.

[upbeat tide]

That was me. Yes you can but the obj limit is based on the engine. So your taking it into your own hands

[wintry aurora]

So, it’s a ‘at your own risk’ thing.

[upbeat tide]

Yup

I hit it properly once on a train spam game. Back in U3

Havent hit it yet in my U4/5 world

I learned having a ton of stuff hanging out in storage has an impact on obj limit.

[wintry aurora]

Didn’t they up the object count limit at some point between U3 and U5? Thought I heard something about it.

[cinder silo]

I upped the object limit but I'm not going to build too mad, just too crashy.

[upbeat tide]

Because its best to buffer train inputs and outputs.

[upbeat tide]

Think so

[wintry aurora]

There may have also been an UE upgrade somewhere.

[magic shadow]

there were 4 version upgrades between U3 and U5

[upbeat tide]

Yup

[magic shadow]

U3 was on UE 4.22, U5 uses 4.26.1

[median heath]

U6 for UE5? 😉

[magic shadow]

ben would have some sharp words about that

[median heath]

Well he is a smart guy. 🙃

So I suspect the majority of his words are sharp 😉

[upbeat tide]

Tldr?

[magic shadow]

lemme find a SS of the last time it came up

[wintry aurora]

Computationally expensive, okay. Can’t they just not use the nanite part?

[sly fjord]

I would be for games that require SSD but have much better LOD

[upbeat tide]

Ooh raytracing bs

[wintry aurora]

Or I’m not quite understanding.

[sly fjord]

(but Ray Tracing can wait)

[upbeat tide]

SF wont even benefit much from raytracing imo. 🤷‍♀️

[wintry aurora]

They could just improve the current LOD models. Particularily distant ones.

[wintry aurora]

Not that we need god rays and stuff.

[wicked tinsel]

current lod models are absolutely horrendous, its not an engine problem

[median heath]

Don't compute it.
Problem solved.

[wintry aurora]

? No idea what you’re saying, female air?

OHHH

Latin for steam I guess.

[magic shadow]

<@&387163995947270144>

[wintry aurora]

<@&387163995947270144> kick these twi.

Ymc posted and deleted a nsfw gif.

[upbeat tide]

When did this become off topic chat?

[median heath]

God bless moderators 🙏

[wintry aurora]

Yea, went weird for a minute there.

[median heath]

Sorry...
ADA bless moderators 🙏

[upbeat tide]

FICSIT Security has entered chat

[median heath]

Hitting trolls with hammers the way I hit lizards with bashers.

[signal nimbus]

Is there a point where using trains to move fluids is better than pipes? For context, I'm in the dune desert, just got oil. I know I can use that little patch for a while no problem, bring it over with pipes. But when I need more than that, is there a rule of thumb for the distance?

[oblique hollow]

Not really.

Trains always seem terribly inefficient to me when you move fluid

[median heath]

Pipelines are de wae.

[oblique hollow]

Thats also why i prefer processing fluid on site

[wintry aurora]

It’d be more efficient to use packaged if you’re transporting it by train.

May also depend on throughput, dunno.

[oblique hollow]

Aye, two freight cars can handle all the packaged stuff.
Full canisters in one, empty ones in the other

[wintry aurora]

Or two stations in a row.

[median heath]

In terms of trains, yes packaging is better.
But then compare the amount of stuff spend for training, packaging, and unpackaging compared to either A) pipeline or B) process on-site then ship

🤷‍♂️

[wintry aurora]

It depends largely on what you’re doing.

[signal nimbus]

I mean... I'm looking at a trans-continental pipeline or railroad. I'll keep the packaging option in mind, definitely dont use those as often as I'd like.

[thorn bane]

well a fluid train is 600/min a packaged fluid train is 780/min so arent they the same

[wintry aurora]

No?

[median heath]

If you're using a train, always package.

[oblique hollow]

1560 packaged, at best, but usually less than that

[signal nimbus]

Well... every drop of oil eventually needs to be processed into Heavy Oil Residue. So... bring to one place, do it once.

[median heath]

That recipe needs a nerf.

[oblique hollow]

Booo

[thorn bane]

well if you bring back the canisters its half

[oblique hollow]

2 stations

You need 2 freight platforms

[thorn bane]

or 2 oil stations

[oblique hollow]

You cant do it all in one

Load / unload at the same platforn

[thorn bane]

2 fluid trains is 3200m²
1 packaged train is 3200 items

dont really see how they are different

[median heath]

Wait. Do neither.
Truck the whole thing 😉

[signal nimbus]

XD

[wintry aurora]

I see what you’re getting at.

[short holly]

megapipe!

[wintry aurora]

They can’t because engine limitations.

[signal nimbus]

Doable. But... I dont feel like troubleshooting a monster like thay.

[oblique hollow]

F a c t o r y C a r t

[thorn bane]

the only trouble with fluid trains is that you cant balance them so you might get issues with "wait untill full"

[oblique hollow]

Wdym cant balance

[wintry aurora]

Just pipe manifold?

[median heath]

Using "Wait until full" 😂😂😂

[wintry aurora]

The lockup with it was fixed though.

[median heath]

Ok? And?

Why would you use it.

[wintry aurora]

Oh wait, you’re referring to the sloshing?

[thorn bane]

if you have 2 stations outputting 600/min you cant balance that so they both unload at the same speed

[median heath]

Nope

[oblique hollow]

Limit them with a valve lul

[wintry aurora]

Valves? Though I get that you can’t really balance pipes.

[median heath]

Don't you just output them into 2 IFBs?

[wind spade]

do you even need to balance them? why not just connect each platform to set of buildings consuming 600?

[thorn bane]

because if for some reason one of them doesnt consume as much you get a train that has 1 empty wagon and 1 that still has stuff in it

[wintry aurora]

Then connect the two?

[wind spade]

I guess (tho overflow sinks should make it so that nothing ever stops), but even if so... does it matter? the train loads to full anyway

if one setup doesn't consume 600 but less, it means you need less than the train is providing, so there will be overflow somewhere, and imo it doesn't matter where

[signal nimbus]

...got it, package your fluids.

[wind spade]

uh? why?

[wintry aurora]

Less hassle I guess.

[wind spade]

except for packaging fuel for vehicles/jetpack, I don't really see a need for packaged fluids

[wintry aurora]

I may still attempt fluid train.

[frosty owl]

Do you happen to know if trucks fed with rods make any waste?

[wind spade]

I don't think they do

but you need a shitload of them to burn rods effectively

[frosty owl]

... I might abandon my plans for a packaged liquid biofuel factory and just feed them rods instead of sinking them 😅 😆

[frosty owl]

Wdym?

[wind spade]

well I assume you wanted to burn rods instead of sinking them 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

I'd still have to sink excess ofc

[wind spade]

ah I see

[thorn bane]

cause they last ~6h each xD

[wind spade]

I think they do radiate tho

[frosty owl]

BRUUUH?!
FOR REAL?!

Can you get trucks to consume an exact amount of fuel along a route?

[signal nimbus]

So, long distance fluid transport. Trains vs Pipeline. Trains seem like the more practical option, as per above. And between the fluid cars and freight cars filled with packaged goods, the freight cars sound better.

[thorn bane]

id do a pipeline (actually id just process it on site)

[frosty owl]

Eg: make it so you can keep either the stations or the trucks with minimum amounts of fuel

[wind spade]

for fluids it's heavily recommended to not transport them at all

[thorn bane]

and thats coming from me, a megabaser

[frosty owl]

@median heath maybe?

[thorn bane]

hm if you guys do trains supplying multiple stations do you do 2 trains A->B and A->C or 2 trains A->B->C?

[wind spade]

first option

[frosty owl]

I'd do the second

[thorn bane]

with wait until full?

[wind spade]

my rule of thumb is that no train has more than two stations

could also do A->X and then X->A and X->B (transfer station), if that's viable

[frosty owl]

Why?

[wintry aurora]

I’ve done multiple stations for testing purposes.

[wind spade]

what's that for? transfer stations?

[wintry aurora]

Haven’t used them in practice yet.

[frosty owl]

Yeah, why go that far rather than having a train serve more than 2 stations?

[median heath]

I don't get the question?

[frosty owl]

Can you edit a route so that a truck consumes a specific amount of fuel each time it travels it?

[median heath]

No, when you record the route it will tell you the exact amount you need.

[wind spade]

• looks cool
• separate train networks (less traffic)
• more throughput by default (since all trains have shorter routes)

[frosty owl]

Yeah, but how exact is the resulting amount?
I never planned a route with the new UI (or in years, really), I wonder if it's feasable to fine-tune a route so that the fuel consumption is an exact amount

[median heath]

Pretty damn accurate tbh.

[wintry aurora]

I feel like there’s a bit of a fudge factor though.

[median heath]

Like I have short ones taking 10 coal and I can feed them only that much and they still make it.

[wintry aurora]

Mainly just rounding up.

[frosty owl]

How hard do you think it would be to set up a route so that it consumes (for instance) exactly 1 plutonium fuel rod every X laps? ^^

[median heath]

If you did the math on how far that rod can take you and drove a path exactly that long, very possible.

[wintry aurora]

You’d have to time it yourself though.

[frosty owl]

Wouldn't there be a risk of the truck running out of fuel or piling up rods though?

[median heath]

This is one of those "do it and find out" things 🙃

[frosty owl]

The point is that it could take quite long to test for that, thus my questions
For instance, do the trucks you mentioned tend to pile up any coal?

[median heath]

Nope. As they take what they need due to new system.

[frosty owl]

That's exactly the kind of info I'm looking for, so I can be fairly sure my efforts won't end against a wall

Plutonium trucks and rods load-balancers, here we gooooo

Having long flat roads between the stops should make it fairly easy to get some rough consumption numbers to work with, using the data on fuel consumption in the wiki

[median heath]

Sushi Trucks 😉

[thorn bane]

wait does fluid wagon unload "wait until fully unloaded" still just not work at all?

[frosty owl]

I've been eyeing the trucks' throughput for long-range sushi for a while... Having access to such a "renewable" fuel source actually makes it worth to me trying them out, even with the addition of the route fine-tuning (hoping it's not maddening)

[wintry aurora]

More like fill completely rather than just take only what’s needed.

[wintry aurora]

The lockup should be fixed, doesn’t mean other issues can’t happen that make it wait.

[median heath]

Unless they reverted the change when I wasn't looking... no.

[stuck iron]

Does "wait till fully unloaded" mean when the platform is empty?

[median heath]

It means when the car is full. Still not sure why you would use it though.

[stuck iron]

Unloaded*

[thorn bane]

just build a small test setup
seems like they wait until they can unload 1600 so until the station has <800

[thorn bane]

shouldnt this be RTD/(RTD+0.4513)*1560 instead?
@median heath

[median heath]

Explain?

Throughput being "time belts are moving * belt speed"

So time belts are moving = how long the train isn't in the docking animation
Which is "Round trip duration - Docking Animation"

[thorn bane]

throughput is items/time
items is 1560
time is (RTD+0.4513)/RTD

[median heath]

Time is (RTD-Docking)/RTD because you need % of UPTIME.

[thorn bane]

also i just did a test with water

[median heath]

Belts are not moving during docking so you need to take docking out, which is -, not +

[oblique hollow]

docking increases the total time and thus decreases throughput, so its + and goes on the bottom

[median heath]

Round Trip Time includes Docking Time though...
So RTD + Docking would be saying Travel Time + Docking + Docking.

[oblique hollow]

something/(roundtrip+ docking)

[median heath]

You're double-adding it though.

[oblique hollow]

whats that damn 0.45something then

[median heath]

Docking time.

In minutes.

Because 1560 is in minutes, so you have to convert.

[oblique hollow]

use an irl calc to verify

[median heath]

What is the 1600?

[oblique hollow]

i sitll dont trust the ingame one with correct order of operation

but also: the normal formula doesnt come close

the normal formula indeed spits out 793.8

[thorn bane]

thex fixed it
i did
and theres paranthesis 🙂

[oblique hollow]

which is trash and thus the normal formula is too

[median heath]

So what's the 1600?

[thorn bane]

fluid train size

[median heath]

Where in the formula you're questioning do you see "size of train" coming into the equation?

Trip Time
Docking Time
Belt Speed

"size of train" is irrelevant.

[oblique hollow]

throughput is affected by stack size

[median heath]

It really isn't... because it has to be put on a belt.
And belts don't care about stack size.

(Or in this case, pipe)

[thorn bane]

anyway the original point i wanted to make is that this means the throughput gets affected like a 65 stacksize solid
which is pretty bad

[median heath]

Oof

[oblique hollow]

i dont get it

[median heath]

He's saying fluid cars transport as if you packaged them and the packaged stacks only went to 65 per stack if I'm reading correctly.

[thorn bane]

ye cause docking is like 25% of the time for fluids

[oblique hollow]

fluid train bad, who knew

simply put the game consumes too much fluid for its own good

[thorn bane]

well you still get 900/min 🤷

[oblique hollow]

so best case you only ever get like 900/min?

[thorn bane]

per 1 freight platform ye

[oblique hollow]

lul weak

[thorn bane]

packaging it gives 1230/min if you add a empty canister train

but you also need to build a ton of packagers

[oblique hollow]

transport packaged gas and ignore the other fluids

[thorn bane]

wait no hold on

god i hate physics

if 1 station is 900/min 2 is 1800/min
and 1 packaged water is 1230/min cause the other one is empty canisters

you have to build alot more trains but isnt it more throughput per freight platfrom?

[soft scarab]

Not per outgoing freight platform

You could build a separate adjacent station to handle loading the empty canisters presumably

[thorn bane]

but then you could also just build an adjacent second water station

[soft scarab]

I mean yeah infinite resources lol

[thorn bane]

but ye you need 2x the trains on the track

[median heath]

Inb4 the universe crushes you with a gravity vortex for saying this 😬