math-and-meta

[upper ore]

How do you guys split 240 iron/coal to Foundry for 45 iron/coal?

i know how but they are bit complex was wondering if there was any easy know workaround?

[thorn bane]

manifold and i use 270/min

[fierce ruin]

The easy workaround is to go drive hunting and unlock Solid Steel as that takes in 40/40 and outputs 60 per min.

[upper ore]

thanks i will do that, never did that!

[thorn bane]

this could be you but you dont like balancing 😦 (40 reactors)

[lunar pivot]

Guys i got a question

this is my Reinforced plate farm

But i got another iron thing left

Idk what to do with it

Can anyone give me advice

[short holly]

You don't need to use it yet if you'r enot ready to! you can expand as you like

or, make more plates, rods etc if you want to ramp it up, takes more precious biofuel of course!

[lunar pivot]

thats what im taking

Doing*

[short holly]

great, expansion to build parts more quickly is always good 🙂

[lunar pivot]

Btw

[short holly]

you don't need to store up the ingots though if you want to save space

[jovial zodiac]

[lunar pivot]

There is alot of things here thats gonna fuck up my shit so what should i do?

Build a lift?

[short holly]

challenges! you can build foundations to get above them or build through them

[lunar pivot]

il build a Platform on here

[short holly]

most people build their factories on foundations once they unlock them

[fierce ruin]

Yeah, it's usually just the very first machines that are built on ground.

Although that's an interesting idea. What would an end game factory look like if it was all on the ground.

[lunar pivot]

So they put the miners on ground and then they build lifts to put it on Foundations?

[short holly]

you can put miners on foundations too, but they have to be fairly low to the ground

but yeah, basically

[lunar pivot]

this what im currently doing

[short holly]

seems fine - you can do it however suits you and make it pretty as you unlock the extras 🙂

[lunar pivot]

yup

Im new to the game so im kinda experiementing

[short holly]

yeah have fun with it! the start of the game is fun learning

also don't worry about rebuilding stuff - it's free (resource wise) and easy to do early on

[lunar pivot]

Alright thanks

Done @short holly

[short holly]

nice!

[lunar pivot]

Yessir

[short holly]

also, its worth exploring a little bit and seeing if you find anything useful...

[lunar pivot]

Yup i Just found a pure iron thing

its like a 1000 meters away tho

[short holly]

hah that's a little far

[lunar pivot]

Yes

i heard of hypertubes or sum I just dont have em yet

[short holly]

there is plenty of iron near you to start with anyways.

[lunar pivot]

Yes

[near zenith]

hey greeny, idk if you're around, but ping me back if you see this. I'm curious about how you do the graph display on satisfactory-tools.com, specifically the graphical output and how it auto organizes the nodes visually

[lunar pivot]

@short hollyIm making another 1 For copper

[lunar pivot]

If i want 60 wire

Why is there only 1 smelter

when 1 smelter makes 30 a min

[wind spade]

yeah, and? it's exactly what the graph is showing you

[lunar pivot]

It sais 1 smelter

U need 2 dont u

[wind spade]

no?

[lunar pivot]

The miner gets 60 copper a min'

Smelters do 30 a min

[wind spade]

yes, but you only want 60/min wire

for that one smelter is enough

[lunar pivot]

Yes

owh because it does 2x

[wind spade]

smelter doesn't do x2

[lunar pivot]

No i meant the wires

why dont i just do 120 then

Imma do 120 a min

[magic island]

figure out how much of the wire you wanna turn into cables, too! gotta have cables

[warm sphinx]

from60/m split 30 30, 30 / m towards cable

[lunar pivot]

Everything is going so well

[lunar pivot]

Okay so i make 120 Wire a min

So il split it

60 to Cable 60 to Storage

Done thanks guys @warm sphinx @magic island

[warm sphinx]

np

[lean tinsel]

Can i have drones go to multiple ports? for example can i have it picking up in one place, dropping off in another and then fueling at a third port before going back to the pick up?

[deft lichen]

no, drones go between two ports only

[lean tinsel]

damn

[wintry aurora]

A port can have multiple drones coming TO it though.

[gloomy gyro]

Alright, making 600 quickwire with 10 constructors, into 6 AI limiters assemblers. What's the best way to merge those to make sure the mergers don't back up?

[ashen girder]

Merge.. whats?

[thorn bane]

what mk belts?

[wintry aurora]

Best way is to use a manifold, and as Zyranex asked, which MK belts?

[gloomy gyro]

MK5

[thorn bane]

then just merge the 600 quickwire and manifold to the 6 AI limiters like this

[gloomy gyro]

Ok, I had issues with mergers backing up before but I guess that was when trying to manifold 2 sides so each merger was splitting the output speed by 3

[ashen girder]

Manifolds only back up if their input is greater than their output.

So if you're sending in 600 quickwire but only consuming 550/min, it'll eventually back up.

[willow igloo]

I'll keep that in mind, though I'm talking about utilizing the train buffers for everything from ore up to heavy modular frames and motors and computers

[thorn bane]

#screenshots message
yes been there done that

[magic island]

a drone can only go back and forth between its home port and a target port. but you can do a many-to-one setup where various drones all visit one hub port that provides or receives a certain item

a natural use-case is a battery factory where other drones can pick em up to power the rest of the network

[gloomy gyro]

Running each step of my nuclear build into its own storage as I go and then out to the next step shouldn't cause any unforeseen issues with the belting should it?

[ashen girder]

Just radiation.

[magic island]

i think there's always unforseen issues with nuclear haha

generally, you can never have too many of the non-radioactive parts, and you can very much have too many of the radioactive parts

[gloomy gyro]

Right, I kind of wish I had set up materials for extra non-radioactive parts because I'm terrified of something not being efficient and me winding up running out of parts and losing power. Playing on a consistent world makes that a worry it'll happen while we're not there

[magic island]

one thing to maybe do is overtune the waste processing leg of the factory? you have to mind the fluids to make sure the recycled water doesn't back up, but if something goes wrong and you have a surplus of waste, it might make cleanup easier

[oblique hollow]

Dont store the radioactive parts so they dont built up

[thorn bane]

my recommendation is wet concrete for encased plutonium cells

[oblique hollow]

moist concrete

[thorn bane]

imagine walking by concrete that was made with radioactive water

[magic island]

what i do is make half of each acid from direct water and half from the recycled water

I used to do a closed loop converting back and forth between nitric & water, but it would dry up because Fluids are Like That Sometimes

[ashen girder]

d i l u t e d concrete.

[errant sable]

soggy concrete

[gloomy gyro]

I never got wet concrete unfortunately

[oblique hollow]

@fallow vector

you'll NEVER guess what this is

this is THE ABSOLUTE PEAK META

[high lantern]

KFC Chicken factory

[oblique hollow]

better

[thorn bane]

turbofuel right?

[oblique hollow]

yes but what kind

[thorn bane]

the biomass kind xd

[high lantern]

Kfc turbofuel

[oblique hollow]

this is:
Turbo Heavy Biocoal Fuel

[thorn bane]

why is there no liquid turbo biofuel

[oblique hollow]

dont ask me, blame Mark :(

[fallow vector]

idgi

[oblique hollow]

... my evil mad plan

Turbo Heavy Biocoal Fuel....

[ashen girder]

I think I love you, McGalleon.

[oblique hollow]

Wait till i start my next project: Instant Biocoal Aluminum Scrap

[uncut sigil]

You'll need to change your tag to Lumberjack 😛

[oblique hollow]

oh you think im cutting TREES? HAH

WRONG I'm cutting Aliens! Muahahah

[uncut sigil]

Heh, just make sure you don't accidentally extinct your supply then 🙂

[oblique hollow]

ah ez pz just wait for the spooders to respawn at night

[uncut sigil]

I don't tend to stray too far from civilisation, not much hunting for me. Actually that's what Scim is missing: mob respawn overlay.

[lunar pivot]

Can i directly Connect a splitter to a lift?

[wary tulip]

Yes

[deft lichen]

you can definitely attach a lift to a splitter

I couldn't build a lift between a building I/O and a splitter since update 5, though, it required a short belt for one connection

[lunar pivot]

what about a splitter to a splitter

[wary tulip]

A short belt is needed between splitters

[lunar pivot]

what happend lmao

[gloomy gyro]

its always been kind of sketchy whether your lifts will auto connect to the input/output of a building, in my experience

[deft lichen]

alt scroll, you switched to hotbar 9

[deft lichen]

it was working pretty reliably for me in singleplayer but I did run into bugs in mp

[lunar pivot]

Thanks. Im making Concrete

its working

@wind spade Im making procces u see

[wind spade]

and why are you pinging me?

[lunar pivot]

Because im excited

[wind spade]

that doesn't answer my question... I just got a pointless ping from you

[lunar pivot]

This is my whole thing now

[lunar pivot]

Because if i dont u wont see it

[wind spade]

I don't want to see it though

[lunar pivot]

why

[wind spade]

why would I want to see random factories?

I have #screenshots for that

[lunar pivot]

its not random its mine

Dude why are you never happy

[wind spade]

because I just got a ping

[lunar pivot]

So?

Stop being high class

Ur getting mad over a ping

[thorn bane]

#old-questions-and-help pls

[wind spade]

I'm fine with being pinged if the message contains question or something that I have to answer

[thorn bane]

this is a channel for math and meta
both which you obviously dont use

[wind spade]

I'm not fine with being pinged with "check out my factory"

fyi @lunar pivot your messages would fit more in #old-questions-and-help or #satisfactory , this channel is mostly about discussing math and ratios and optimisation, not random talking about your factories

[wind spade]

uh... I'm the one getting pinged here 🤷‍♂️

[lunar pivot]

I HATE YOu

FRAUD

[wind spade]

😕

[lunar pivot]

Sorry

Look i dont want to fight

I just need you to be happy

[wind spade]

then stop pinging me with random screenshots, thanks.

[lunar pivot]

Sorry

[azure gust]

hmm, my 'plan' apparently doesn't use all of the nitrogen - what should I do with the excess?

oh, that probably qualifies the same as the above comment, since it's not about ratios or anything

[ashen girder]

Don't be scared of greeny. 😂

[gloomy gyro]

but it is about efficiency and math!

[azure gust]

I also have extra limestone, and water of course

[thorn bane]

nah this is meta its fine 🙂
Thermal Propulsion rockets eat up most of nitrogen so i guess those
you can also use it for Turbo motors using the Turbo Pressure Motor

[azure gust]

I'm only planning to be building ~19.17 TPR/minute, since that lets me also build ~273.75 Assembly Director Systems/min, which according to my math, gets me the most points/min in the sink 🙂

~166.3M points/min, if you're curious

[thorn bane]

sounds like you should build more TPRs

[azure gust]

more TPR means less ADS, which means less points overall

[thorn bane]

by cutting of 3 ADS/min you gain 20 TPR/min
https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=zXTn7OR1DFE2sOzSKnId
relevant math here:https://www.reddit.com/r/satisfactory/comments/ph878m/i_have_calculated_theoretical_maximum_of_coupon/

[azure gust]

yep, I did something similar, but fully invested into nuclear power, which consumes a portion of the resources that would otherwise be used by TPR/ADS

I realize I'm not fully maxed out

[thorn bane]

yes those are the 50.4 UFR and 12.6 PFR in the planner

[azure gust]

I ended up with 22.4 PFR, possibly from using different recycling recipes

needs more Pressure Conversion Cubes, for example

[thorn bane]

the resource consumption of TPR and ADSs looks like this
so aslong as you have extra bauxite/nitrogen you build more TPRs

[thorn bane]

ah ye 12.6 is if you sink the rods 22.4 is if you use them

[azure gust]

let's see, my pattern is: 2100 uranium -> 1680 EUC -> 50.4 UFR -> 2520 UWaste -> 3360 NFU -> 448 EPC -> 22.4 EFR [sink]

maybe that last step is more resource-consuming than it needs to be if I'm just going to be sinking them anyways

think I originally planned to use all of it, then realized that I didn't need to

[thorn bane]

if you plan to sink the rods you want to use the most uranium waste innefficient recipe
so you use default plutonium rods default encased encased plutonium cells default plutonium pellets and feault non-fissile uranium
this results in the least amount of other resources used to sink the rods
ofcrouse if you want to use them its fine to use other resources to boost the production

its 2520->2520 NFU -> 756 PP -> 378 EPC -> 12.6 PFT (sink)

[azure gust]

I haven't done all the math on power usage, but I figure that 50.4 UFRs will power anything I need

[thorn bane]

according to the reddit post "All uranium is mined and is not enough to produce power (We can't use plutonium because of waste) and LP system thinks that turbofuel is not worth it (resources spent making it could be spent for more points) so the rest of the power is done using fuel (it is less than 10%)"

[thorn bane]

And anyone interested, here is how i deal with high throughput items like Quickwire for stuff like Ai limiters using the magic of belt compressors.
I wrote this in the last hours so expect some misspelled words and stuff
also obligatory @wind spade @frosty owl @fierce ruin ping
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_rXrJ8CWyjNExcayArby3HjRpDUXV5sd8QvFrdNZxBc/edit#

[azure gust]

u5's satisfactorytools/production doesn't calculate power anymore

and double-click also doesn't work to 'hide' nodes

[wind spade]

(not saying it's bad or anything) but I'd just use what's on the belt and won't bother with belt compressors

[wind spade]

both are known "issues" or rather not finished features

[azure gust]

I figured I wasn't the first to notice 🙂

[frosty owl]

Now, you might yell at me for always going down the same lane 😅
But this got me thinking about how would a programmable version work and what could it be useful for (I'm guessing close to nothing )

[raven nest]

I'm a bit confused with a bit of effeciency. I've got a mark one miner on a pure node (120), and it is being split into two constructors with an input of 45/min. How could I make this as efficient as possible?

[fierce ruin]

concrete?

[raven nest]

mhm.

[fierce ruin]

how I hanle it right at the start of the game is by underclocking 3 constructors at 88.88889%, and splitting the 120 limestone between those (they now take 40 each)

[raven nest]

ah.

[thorn bane]

you have 4 options
underclock:
like you said or 100%+100%+66.66% (what most people go for)
dont care:
build 3 at 100% as long as its consuming all the limestone its efficient in my opinion
downclock the miner:
just set the miner to only output 90 limestone/min
find a ratio that fits:
find a second normal node so you have 180 in total that you can split into 4 constructors

[ashen girder]

I just add a third and let it starve. 😂

[wind spade]

5th option: build 3 machines at 88.8889% 😛

[thorn bane]

thats the "like you said" option

[wind spade]

ah nvm I'm blind and it was suggested already

[frosty owl]

5th option: build 3 machines at 88.8888 and sink the overflow

[wind spade]

6th option: build a sink and no machines

[frosty owl]

Both 5 and 6 would have all machines running at 100% forever

[thorn bane]

7th option use wet concrete for 120 limestone ->80 concrete at 100%

[uncut sigil]

8th option: sink the raw limestone and buy the concrete in the Awesome shop.

[frosty owl]

I wonder how staggering the amount of ores needed would be if one wanted to finish the game that way (after unlocking the sink)

It might actually be unfeasible due to how fast the points needed per coupon increase

[uncut sigil]

It'd be insane, that's for sure. I doubt adding foliage and organs would speed things up much either.

[frosty owl]

You could make it "easier", but I imagine a situation like: you sink (numbers just for example) 1000 iron ore to buy 100 iron ingots, then you sink the ingots to buy 50 iron plates and 500 screws. Sink those and you can buy... How many om would it be, a couple RIPs?

If one were to just sink the ores to buy ingots/concrete for processing though...

That'd be feasible

[topaz hedge]

Not sure I'd say "I don't like balancing" it's just not something i do very often

very nice setup tho

[frosty owl]

I just thought of a new alt recipe for empty fluid tanks
1 pressure conversione cube -> 420 empty fluid tanks

[thorn bane]

i know its an amazing idea

i mean it converts gravity
they HAVE to do something with it...

[gloomy gyro]

Probably a better question for here. I want to balance my radioactive materials rather than manifolding, the build calls for 12 blenders into 15 manufacturers. Should I build 16, underclock and split into 16s, or would it be better to build 12 and OC them and just straight feed?

[frosty owl]

Nono, I just mean normal fluid tanks. They just don't have an alt atm 😆

[topaz hedge]

what is purpose of this? x:

[frosty owl]

Straight feed would probably be the most convenient, belt-wise

[topaz hedge]

overclockem

[thorn bane]

a packager but for everything so youre not limited by 780 so much (for example 5000 quickwire)

[gloomy gyro]

12 and overclock it is

[frosty owl]

Are you using the pressure conversion plutonium recipe, @gloomy gyro ?

[thorn bane]

what exact process is this? seems unfamiliar

[gloomy gyro]

creating 6 uranium fuel rods per min

for 30 reactors

[thorn bane]

oooh you dont have infused cells?

[topaz hedge]

ohboy.. i thought so

[gloomy gyro]

no...

[thorn bane]

ok gotcha

[frosty owl]

Ahahah, hearing blenders into manifacturers I immediatly thought of plutonium

[thorn bane]

ye thats why i was confused

[gloomy gyro]

Should I not do this until I have infused cells?

[frosty owl]

Poor standard nuclear recipes, they get so little love

[topaz hedge]

How are you going to handle waste sulfuric acid?

[thorn bane]

nah its fine i just didnt recognize the ratio

[gloomy gyro]

re-feed

[topaz hedge]

D:

[frosty owl]

VIP go brr

[gloomy gyro]

I have output of sulfuric going back into the same blender

is that not going to work?

[topaz hedge]

i unno

[thorn bane]

but ye anyway 12->15 seems pretty hard
honestly the uranium stuff is kinda w/e since its not very radioactive
the plutonium stuff is where it gets spicey
also spoiler but if you use the 2 alt recipes for Urods and cells its 1:1 xD

[thorn bane]

no its fine
just like aluminum

[frosty owl]

Depends on how you set it up. If you don't even know what a VIP is, I fear your produced acid will clog your byproduct acid ^^

[gloomy gyro]

doing this

[topaz hedge]

does the waste acid go above the blender?

no okay it's fed from above.

[gloomy gyro]

I'm not producing enough for it to clog

I'm producing enough so that the recycled sulfuric is included in the required

[frosty owl]

If you underfeed it you'll be piling up uranium though ^^

[topaz hedge]

it should be okay

[gloomy gyro]

guess we'll see how it works. Worst case I wasted 2 days and we just leave this section of the map to die...

[frosty owl]

To clarify: if you feed it (amount needed) - (byproduct), the machine will take a while to reach 100% efficiency, meaning the uranium will pile up

[gloomy gyro]

If it's already full when it starts, it should go straight to 100% shouldn't it?

[topaz hedge]

if it doesn't work. I will personally visit your world and fix it xd

[gloomy gyro]

hahaha

[frosty owl]

If it also has enough fluid in the pipes to kot starve again before the byproduct reaches the input, ofc

[gloomy gyro]

right

[topaz hedge]

this how i ended up doing mine.. I built the whole thing and turned it on and forgot it even produced waste acid

so I had to puff inhalers and throw this together really quick xd

[thorn bane]

when in doubt: VIP it
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/satisfactory_gamepedia_en/images/3/39/Pipeline_Manual.pdf/revision/latest?cb=20211118185323

[near zenith]

you really wrote input h2so4 rofl

respect

[topaz hedge]

xd

[gloomy gyro]

How does that work exactly?

[topaz hedge]

no idea.. mcgallon made it lol

[frosty owl]

@gloomy gyro Generally speaking, though, I would suggest manifolding both the input acid and the byproduct acid, merging the byproduct to the input via a VIP junction. Its a pretty simple solution and that way one wouldn't need to care about the acid EVER backing up NOR would have the factory start piling up uranium after a few loads of the savefile (fluid load loss means any pipe system that isn't overfed will starve eventually, leading to a piling up of uranium and lack of cells in your system)

[thorn bane]

you connect the bottom pipe to the output sulfuric acid
and the top pipe to the fresh sulfuric acid
the junction will prioritize the output so it never backs up

[topaz hedge]

my solution to the fluid loss is a buffer... and a fill port that I add acid to every month or so x:

[thorn bane]

also you can just chain all of them together and use 1 VIP

also am i stupid?
how do you balance 12 to 15?

[gloomy gyro]

I don't think you do

5s are stupid

[frosty owl]

I opted for a bit more cumbersome but more "efficient" (in my eyes) approach of overproducing everything and Havigg overflow pipes from every single fluid manifold (excluding water)

[frosty owl]

That's where I rely on our lord and savior, Overclock-Sama

[gloomy gyro]

So I probably need to undo the pipe runs I have to make that VIP I suppose.

[topaz hedge]

what are you even talking about, you use infused cells..

[frosty owl]

If you care about not piling up radioactive stuff... XD
The issues I can forsee with the current setup are: pile-up of uranium, lack of cells. The system would still run ^^

[frosty owl]

I'm talking about all fluid processing in the game excluding water
Pretty much a few "global overflow pipes" collecting the overflow from each and every manifold in the world, so no factory starves due to lack of fluid nor gets backed up with fluid

Then I'll either process or package-sink the overflow

[topaz hedge]

or.. you can do something like this

[wintry aurora]

Would doing a double loop like this be overkill? I'm asking because the plan I'm doing https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=dA12ns8xjgAyasOeIi4M has aluminium scraps wastewater partially go to the residual rubber for some reason, so, I'm including that in the loop. The setup isn't fully running yet atm.

[frosty owl]

Funnily enough, said overflow should cut out everytime I load the game, due to the overflow trying to full up all the losses the fluid load bug caused ^^
That'd be fun to see

[gloomy gyro]

So I'll want an extra couple refineries of Sulfuric just in case

although, this game doesn't ever shut off except when there's an update that needs installed, or the daily restart

[thorn bane]

ok had a brainfart for a sec i guess
but ye this is how you balance it

[topaz hedge]

what I posted works because the pipe above the bender will act as a buffer, and the headlift on the input side isn't enough to reach the top and fill those pipes... so there's always empty space in those pipes for waste.

[thorn bane]

wait
dude
i cant math for shit

[wintry aurora]

To me, it'd make more sense for the residual rubber to have it's own water line, but for some reason the wastewater is getting included in there.

[topaz hedge]

I tested it with aluminum water.. it can turn on and off and cycle for days and not have any issues.

[thorn bane]

there
build that 3 times

[wintry aurora]

I guess the non-answer means 'try it out and see how it goes'.

[frosty owl]

If you're referring to the measures against the fluid loss, I just produce 1/min of extra for each machine needing that fluid (the loss is ~5m per machine, so I encur in a "real" loss only if I quit the game before 5 minutes after loading)

[topaz hedge]

if input acid is fed in from the top.. it's gonna fluid lock :/

[wintry aurora]

Since the loop stuff and wastewater is on topic, what about my question? heh.

[thorn bane]

huh? sorry was busy drawing splitters and mergers

[wintry aurora]

@thorn bane

[thorn bane]

nah using waste water in other stuff is great

[wintry aurora]

Would make more sense for the recycled rubber to have it's own water line, so, I don't know what satisfactorytools is doing.

[frosty owl]

You could just manifold all the byproduct water, then add however more you need via a VIP junction and feed that to all the water inputs

[thorn bane]

just make sure you sink the rubber so it doesnt back up
and other way around the alu scrap

[frosty owl]

Satisfactory tools just uses all resources, it doesn't take belting-piping conveniences into account, that's for you to figure out 😉

[wintry aurora]

Is what I did a manifold? and I'm not sure if I literally need to do a loop or a straight tributary would be fine.

[thorn bane]

using the recycled water for other productions is always better than refeeding it
its just that alot of the times you have no production nerby
if you do? great!

[wintry aurora]

Alternatively, I could sink the polymer resin.

[near zenith]

if i'm thinking of doing a full build with all nuclear waste sunk into plutonium rods for the sink, what kind of ratios of uranium inputs to plutonium rod outputs should I be expecting while still maximizing power gain? I'm seeing that you can get 14.4 uranium fuel rods off one mk3 normal ur node, which would produce 720 waste/min if i overclock the nuclear reactors. what's a good strat for figuring out the plutonium needs?

[gloomy gyro]

So if I built a VIP, connected all the recycled sulfuric into the bottom pipe, one input line into the top pipe, and connected the end to the input of the blenders that works?

[thorn bane]

uranium rods = 0.25 plutonium rods
(if you sink)

[topaz hedge]

100 waste to 1 plutonium rod i think.

or is that wrong now..

[thorn bane]

yes

[gloomy gyro]

the build I'm looking at without alts is 30 reactors, creates 300 waste per min which means 3 plutonium rods per min

[thorn bane]

isnt it 200?

[frosty owl]

More like 100:0.5 iirc

[wintry aurora]

Actually, no, wait, probably sinking the rubber would be better due to how the rubber is linked up. Or just disconnect the water.

[near zenith]

satis-tools is telling me i can get 7.5 pl rods/min off 720 waste with full alts and no aditional ur use

[thorn bane]

50.4 urods is 2520 waste = 12.6 Prods

[near zenith]

wait, no, misread, extra 140 ur

gods this graph is complicated 😦

[thorn bane]

if you want to sink the Prods you want to use the LEAST efficient recipe for nuclear waste so you save as many other resources
so no alts for plutonium

[near zenith]

interesting....

i'll think on this a bit and get back to y'all, got life things to take care of

[thorn bane]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=d5litAcfJZtpzi8HY26n
heres a planner

[wintry aurora]

That sounds counterintuitive.

[topaz hedge]

200:1 sounds right

[frosty owl]

200 waste to 1 PFR is the "worse" waste-to-rods ratio you can get afaik

[thorn bane]

i know
i lvoe it xD

[topaz hedge]

think of it like this

no alts = destroy all waste fast

[thorn bane]

but now you match nuclear waste/min
so the Unit has way higher WP

[topaz hedge]

all the alts = I hope you're burning that plutonium...

[wintry aurora]

Use more sinks?

[frosty owl]

Actually, instant cells is the fastest

[thorn bane]

also quote from the wiki:
"Although the Instant Plutonium Cell recipe use more raw resources, it is necessary to max out Uranium-Plutonium production, as it costs less Nuclear Waste per Cell.

If the purpose to produce Plutonium Fuel Rod is to get rid of Uranium Waste, then it is advised to choose the default recipe."

[topaz hedge]

it's wasting resourses.. and power.. and you have a net reduction in points because pressurecubes are worth 257k vs 153k for a plutonium fuel rod..

[frosty owl]

Which is fine, but you're consuming much more resources to consume the same amount of waste
While that makes sense if you want to make more plutonium, if you're only interested in getting rid of the waste, standard recipes need you to invest the least amount of resources (especially "rare" ones)

[topaz hedge]

if you just want nuclear power and no waste.. default recipes.

if you want to max nuclear power and you plan on burning plutonium, use the alts.

[thorn bane]

now that i think about it 12->15 isnt that bad
i did 13.333 -> 40 for my Urods -> nuclear plants which is kinda similar
you just use a 5 splitter they are not magic
https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Balancer?file=Balancer_odd.png

[near zenith]

also, absolutely non math sidenote, i just remembered i have like, only 3gw of power left, so i'm going to live the satisfactory meme dream of making more power to power the machines to make my future power

[frosty owl]

Hot take: If you want the least amount of nuclear power for the least usage of resources, try the fertile uranium route!

[topaz hedge]

Try the VIP, the ms paint drawing I sent you will work just as well too.

[gloomy gyro]

Yeah I'm trying to put together a VIP, figure I might as well try it

[frosty owl]

Start storing power in power storages to sustain your fuel facilities long enough for your generators to kick in

[fringe pawn]

1200 raw uranium into a max uranium rod setup does create more power than most people would ever need, so there's a solid argument for fertile uranium... sort of. The realistic issue is bring multiple uranium nodes together.

[wintry aurora]

@topaz hedge I see, ok.

[near zenith]

i've got ~16gwh of storage, so hopefully that'll eb enought lol

[thorn bane]

hm interesting

[cedar mica]

The power storage can output more then 100MW per, but will reduce the length it lasts

[thorn bane]

but then again by that same logic you never use all quartz aswell

[ashen girder]

16 GWh will run at 64 GW for 15 minutes, for example.

[frosty owl]

Yep yep!
I dunno what you mean about bringing the uranium together being an issue, but while fertile uranium does indeed cut down on your nuclear power (especially if you're sinking the plutonium), the resource savings can be certanely interesting! ^^

[topaz hedge]

100 Wh = 100 W for 1 hour.. or Capacity/Draw = run time in hours

[thorn bane]

its just the silica right?
wait dont you also make more non-fissile uranium so more stuff for plutonium rods?

[frosty owl]

You're underestimating the savings ahahah

[fringe pawn]

It all comes down to whether you consider the entire map or a corner of the map (or whatever subsection).

[thorn bane]

idk i saw kibitz use fertile uranium i was like whaaaaaaaaat?

[fringe pawn]

Trading uranium for silica isn't that interesting IMO, and it's not even a big use of silica.

[frosty owl]

First you produce less UFR, so that's the first saving right there
Second, you have less waste so you still make less Non-fissile than with a normal nuclear route
Third, you save on a decent amount of nitrogen and Sulphur on the Non-fissile step itself, compared to the standard recipe

[fierce ruin]

default uranium fuel is way too hard on sulfur (okay if you're not going heavy on drones, not okay otherwise)
and for plutonium - indeed, just default recipe if you're sinking it

[thorn bane]

huh its more no?

[topaz hedge]

I'm referring to waste processing side. not uranium fuel rod production. sorry

[thorn bane]

wait wat

that looks horrible

[topaz hedge]

wow.. it matches uranium input with waste

[gloomy gyro]

man I'm bad, looking at that VIP picture and I can't figure out how to get the stackable pipeline thing tall enough to do what the picture shows

[cedar mica]

Maxing out both Fuel Rods, is about 3100 sulfur. You can still make almost 2500 batterys, with whats left

[thorn bane]

ye ok nvm never ever ever do that pls xd

[frosty owl]

Using fertile uranium means you use as much uranium (or little less, depending on instant Vs pellets) as waste to make the non-fissile
Less uranium means less UFRs

[fierce ruin]

well, that's assuming no other need for sulfur aside from nukes and batteries

[thorn bane]

eh thats flawed logic as you also make less power
if the power your making is constant its more Prods

just compare it to not using the uranium

[cedar mica]

There is nothing else that need Sulfur, other then the small amount for your ammo and nobelist. Probably 5-10/m is enough

[thorn bane]

but anyway thats like 3x the non-fissle per waste
wtf was kibitz doing o.O

[thorn bane]

batteries -> super state computer -> ADS (250 of em xd)

[frosty owl]

That's why I said "if you want the least Nuclear power for the least resource usage fertile can be interesting" ^^
It's still around 200 GW of uranium power and ~100 (minimum) of plutonium iirc

[cedar mica]

2500/m batterys, should be plenty for that...

[thorn bane]

oh you mean if you use the plutonium rods?

[frosty owl]

I distinguished wether you use them or not. Should be around 200-100 GW of each

Then again, you can easily get more pluo power than uranium power with fertile, but that's a lot of resources

[thorn bane]

imo fertile uranium -> sink makes no sense is what i meant
you might be right about the plutonium power

[thorn bane]

ye youre right nvm

[fierce ruin]

OC Super is my personal favorite.

[gloomy gyro]

Sorry for the waterfall being in the way, but VIP like this?

[thorn bane]

yup looks good

[gloomy gyro]

nice

I just realized that I didn't factor in crafting plutonium fuel rods to sink them, I thought I just needed the encased cells

[thorn bane]

ye you need da loops 🙂

[gloomy gyro]

welp, not finishing this today I don't think

[frosty owl]

Fertile uranium

[gloomy gyro]

that's almost as much work as I already did

[blissful granite]

Whats the max number of copper smelters i can have on a single drill?

[river night]

that depends on the node and your level of miner

[wind spade]

depends on node purity, miner mk and overclocking

[blissful granite]

Oh yea...fuck there are different nodes.

Trying to future proof my start lol

[wind spade]

(and copper recipe and clock speed of the smelter/foundry)

[gloomy gyro]

best bet is to build however you want early, then blow it all up later

[topaz hedge]

itsa big project :3

[foggy cairn]

start with spaghetti, end with spapretty

[frosty owl]

Oof

[azure gust]

I've reworked my nuclear plan somewhat, should now be able to get up to around 168M points/min with 25 TPR and ~271.98 ADS. This is of course assuming that the power requirements of all of that aren't greater than I'm producing [~630 GW]

[frosty owl]

Shouldn't be. 630 is plenty, even if you OC your machines heavily~

[azure gust]

so far, I've only OC'd resource extractors, not actual construction buildings

that might change with the actual nuke plants, though

[frosty owl]

You'll probably have 30% power aviable or more after finishing the project imo

[azure gust]

that'd be handy

[frosty owl]

Btw, you can easily check out how much a production line can consume on the U4 version of SFtools

Doesn't seem to work on the U5 version yet (the recipes are the same though)

[wind spade]

yeah, work in progress 😦

tho it didn't change between U4 and U5, so you can just check it in U4 tool

[wintry aurora]

Would a storage buffer for a battery supplying drone port be unneccesary or...?

[karmic peak]

I could be wrong but i pretty sure it depends on if there is more than 1 drone using the port and why you are supplying batteries via drone for

[wintry aurora]

To supply other drone ports.

[karmic peak]

Have you done the math for how much is supplied and how much is needed?

But i believe its unneeded but not unneccasary

[wintry aurora]

I'm just starting to set up drone network, need the batteries to even start it up in the first place.

[wintry aurora]

Sort of a 'leave for the future'?

[karmic peak]

yea

[topaz hedge]

It is necessary, actually.

[wintry aurora]

'k then.

[topaz hedge]

well wait

how you have it hooked up isn't.

[topaz hedge]

if the purpose of the drone port is to supply batteries to other drone ports, you need a buffer with a fast belt feeding the input of that port.

since the port itself won't have any drones.. it doesn't need batteries.

[wintry aurora]

The specific setup or just not right this instant?

[wintry aurora]

Of course it doesn't, I'm just starting up the network.

[topaz hedge]

so like if this drone port supplies batteries to other drone stations around the map, you want a storage buffer between the port and your battery factory.

because unless you have a max mk5 belt of battery production, what'll end up happening is once you have multiple drone outposts getting batteries from this port, the moment it's not able to fill a drone with batteries, that drone will fly right back using more batteries

[wintry aurora]

I'm starting off with 120/m since someone else said that was a good baseline.

[topaz hedge]

it is.

[twin parrot]

Long term question.
Should i double the iron going into my steel using refineries, but use more coal, or use the compacted coal?
Is coal more valuable elsewhere?

[vapid gorge]

anyone know what the aprox % of units lost running mk5 belt at max?

[wind spade]

varies with distance and from pc to pc

~740 should be safe

for shorter belts even 760

[cedar mica]

I would just assume its 750. That way you can always downclock the last machine, if some is lost

[vapid gorge]

Ta! And that is a FUCK ton more loss than I expected.

Thoughts on what is the max unit p/m you can run w/o loss?

[cedar mica]

The only time you need the full speed from mk5, is when using mk3 miner on pure nod. Just throw on a splitter right before it and dont lose anything, as the distance it runs at 780, is so short.

Other then that, think of mk5 as 750 or 720. Whatever works easiest with math

[wintry aurora]

Actually, I just realized I set up the buffer wrong.

[vapid gorge]

Ta!

[frosty owl]

It's hard to give an exact value, since it depends heavily on your system and your savefile (the "worse" your game runs, the greater the losses) and the amount of belt-belt connection you chain: one belt segment can carry 780/min (eg: from miner to container/splitter), but any mk5 belt with more than 1 segment will surely back up at full load (the more the segments, the more the "loss", lag makes the loss worse too)

[vapid gorge]

It sounds like you want to split any important pure nodes up at the miner?

[frosty owl]

The exact same belt could carry 770/min at one time and end up carrying only 750/min later on after you added more factories (have worse performance in the save)

[frosty owl]

If you want to take the full 780/min out of them, splitting or putting a ISC after a single belt segment is your only choice
Or mods, ofc~

[vapid gorge]

ofc

I wonder if they'll be able to sort that eventually

[frosty owl]

Seems unlikely, but I wish for that too

[cedar hornet]

hi im currentally attempting making a python script to help with coal gens

wish me luck and ill post if it works in the future

[signal nimbus]

...what does it do?

[cedar hornet]

it will work out what the max flow rate is for x amount of extractors and how much power you can get with x amount of shards and x amount of extractors

or something like that im new to python so yeah

[signal nimbus]

I mean... it's already known that extractors get exponentially more power-hungry as you shard them. So for coal gens, the two ratios are either 3 extractors to 8 gens, or 1 extractor at 75% for 2 gens. The second is a bit more power-efficient, and if you want to optimize for power efficiency, 300 extractors at 1% each would do the trick.

[cedar hornet]

yeah stuff like that hurts my brain so im gonna make a script

also its good practice

[signal nimbus]

...so 3:8 and 1:2 are hard to wrap your head around, but not a python script involving exponentials?

[cedar hornet]

yes

ik im dumb

and my brain no work

[signal nimbus]

...let us know how this turns out. :)

[wintry aurora]

3:8 ratio isn’t that hard to remember or do much math on.

[signal nimbus]

If python's how he works out word problems, that's better than the majority of the population who don't bother at all.

[vast jungle]

120 Water production, 45 consumption... 45/120 = (3x3x5) / (2x2x2x3x5) = 3 / (2x2x2) = 3/8

[signal nimbus]

...huh... didn't think about sending a 240 to one side then a 120 to the other. That's way easier than what I've been doing up until now.

[wind spade]

other option is

  G  G  G  G
E-+--+--+--+
E-+
E-+--+--+--+
  G  G  G  G

[vast jungle]

I am still used to connect the "coal generator" end, but its really unnecessary

[wind spade]

you can also expand it like this 🙂

  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G
E-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-E
E-+                    +-E
E-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-E
  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G

[vast jungle]

G  G  G  G  E  E  E  G  G  G  G
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+

[signal nimbus]

XD Nice! I usually bring in 3 lines of 120 from one end, then when one has been mostly used up, inject the next one.

[wind spade]

with 120 lines you can just split them to 8 gens and not even merge it with the next one

so that each line goes to 8 gens only

[signal nimbus]

Right, that's what I mean.

[wind spade]

ah alright. Usually by "inject" I imagine injected manifold kind of thing

[vast jungle]

I try to keep pipe systems as easy as possible... only connect what needs to be connected

[signal nimbus]

It's kind of like that, yeah. Now that I'm thinking about it, it might actually be more for my bigger plants using 3 240 lines for a row of 16, so... manifold might also be accurate.

[vast jungle]

I managed to get out of coal at 3.2 GW... and added a 9 GW (diluted) fuel powerplant

[wind spade]

basically the top one is what I recommend, the bottom one is what I would call "injected manifold" (and that may also not work ideally unless you use smart splitters or have mk3s)

[signal nimbus]

Bottom one's what I was talking about.

[wind spade]

yeah you kinda need mk3 belts or smart splitters for it to work 🙂

[signal nimbus]

Yeah... specific to pipes, I ended up with one of my gens not getting consistent water.

[vast jungle]

I had a similar problem because I did not wait until my whole pipe network was full...

[wind spade]

ah I was talking about belts... For pipes it's different

[signal nimbus]

Yeah, pipes.

[wind spade]

for pipes it's the ASCII art above 😄 #math-and-meta message

[signal nimbus]

Belts I'm some combo of load balancing and manifold. Depends on how lazy/time constrained I am at the time.

Like, the diagram above I'd put a second splitter on each input line so it spools up a bit smoother. Then another layer if there's room.

[vast jungle]

the problem with mixing all kinds of strategies is that its easy to get wrong and get subtile but annoying problems.

[signal nimbus]

That's the thing. I'm not actually mixing anything. Default is manifold. If possible, I load balance it a bit better.

They're not binary options, there's a gradient.

[vast jungle]

I know...

[cedar hornet]

code is going well

[vast jungle]

and mostly belts behave nicely... unless you have a LONG (Quick)wire manifold 😉

[cedar hornet]

hitting a few bumps but its fine

[wind spade]

what you're trying to do? 🤔

[cedar hornet]

make a python script to figure out stuff for coal gens

[wind spade]

what kinds of stuff? 🤔

a lot of ratios and maths has already been done

[cedar hornet]

yeah but im a big dumb dumb

so me write code to figure out

[wind spade]

what about asking someone else or using existing online tools to figure stuff out instead? 🤔

[cedar hornet]

cause i want to help my self learn python

you wanna see so far???

[wind spade]

nah I don't like python

[cedar hornet]

okie

[vast jungle]

^^

Python is nice for hacking things...

[wind spade]

everything is nice for hacking things 🤔

[fringe pawn]

:machete:

I was really hoping that would turn out to be an actual emoji

[vast jungle]

C is not nice for hacking small stuff... too much worry about dynamic allocation, pointers and similar stuff

(I spent most of my time at the job doing stuff in C... but we are trying to transition to Go where its possible)

[wind spade]

just do javascript for quick'n'dirty

[vast jungle]

yes, javascript does work too...

[cedar hornet]

I KNOW A REASON WHY IM WRITING IT IN PYTHON INSTEAD OF JUST DOING THE MATH

IM CRAP AT MATH

[wind spade]

what's the reason for caps lock?

[vast jungle]

I am not sure solving math with python without understanding the problem will work well 😉

[wintry aurora]

Aren’t you literally doing the math in python?

Also, calculator?

[vast jungle]

you CAN solve some complicated problems by doing a more simple "simulation" of the problem... but its easy to get wrong.

luckily verifying a solution is easier than producing one

[strange hedge]

Hello everyone, I have a question about "Balancer".

[oblique hollow]

The math for coal gens is literally just multiplication just pop numbers into a calc and done, no math by hand needed

[strange hedge]

I read that you can balance by taking specific amount of materials from belt for input. In order, to use the balancer, I use both merger and splitter to balance out the input right?

[oblique hollow]

Yes

[strange hedge]

I see.. interesting, thank you

[vast jungle]

there are some corner cases that only need splitters, but the general solutions will need also mergers

[river night]

the "general" solution also has an infinite size 😄

if you need to balance a high prime number of machines, oh boy

[vast jungle]

or you cheat with a smart overflow and a sink 😉

[thorn bane]

honestly prime balancers are not that big
i think the size scales with log n since you always backmerge and then split into 2/3 so it goes down by a factor of 2 or 3 with every step

[fierce ruin]

1 + 1 = 11

[vast jungle]

unary number notations are not fun 😉

[vestal rune]

Wasn't there a website for creating plans of your factory floor layout?

[versed violet]

There was, but can't remember the name or find it. It was something short.

[modest apex]

Would be useful to know

[unreal osprey]

SaLT, satisfactory layout tool

[vestal rune]

Thank you

[frosty owl]

Else there's the (imo) big brain approach of merging machines with specific clocks to prepare a "balanced belt" and not having to do any weird shenanigans

[unreal osprey]

oh no not another sushi boih balancing lecture xd

[frosty owl]

Lecture is over already, unless there's questions...
Nothing?
Class dismissed then

[unreal osprey]

greeny might have a question

[wind spade]

👀

[edgy warren]

hey fellas should i make fuel then plastics with residual, or make the plastics then fuel out of the purple oil

i got recycled rubber alt too which unsure about

[wintry aurora]

You should use the recycled plastic+rubber loop.

[edgy warren]

guess it depends what i want more of

[wind spade]

alt HOR -> diluted fuel/diluted packaged fuel (-> recycled plastic/rubber loop)

that's the most resource efficient way

for fuel, rubber and plastic

[near zenith]

behold your new bible AutoMcD

[wind spade]

(the PR byproduct from alt HOR gets turned into rubber)

[edgy warren]

ok i'm missing a couple of those alts

i can do recycled rubber

[near zenith]

technically diluted fuel in blender can be replaced with packaged diluted as well

[edgy warren]

also to throw a wrench in i got electrode circuit boards to make

[near zenith]

but the alt hor is required

[wind spade]

well... "required"

[near zenith]

"required"

[wind spade]

you can do anything really, it's your game.

[near zenith]

nope

my game now, i bought css

[wind spade]

just this is the most resource efficient way to do stuff

[near zenith]

also, be warned, setting this up for the first time will probably make you go a tinnny bit mad, so... yea

[edgy warren]

the circuits are rubber+coke so gonna have a line of those

to make 90 circuits/min this is going to be a huge amount of stuff.. i might have to just run out another caterium mine instead

[stone bane]

Is this thing good for a early-game reinforced iron plate factory?

Or is it too "advanced"?

[tropic hawk]

you should use manifolds instead of load balancing

but 200 RIP/min is good.

[wintry aurora]

I can’t read that diagram very well, not used to it.

[tropic hawk]

green buildings are production. yellow is splitters

[wintry aurora]

I know, just the diagram is messy.

[hard solstice]

I went with screw alt instead of rods.

[wind spade]

which website is that? I thought satisgraphtory wasn't updated

[hard solstice]

But I was lucky enough to get it super early.

[wintry aurora]

I prefer satisfactory tools over that one.

[wind spade]

oh, send a DM with the link

[stone bane]

It is satisgraphtory

[wind spade]

is it? then it doesn't have updated recipes

if it's https://satisgraphtory.com/

[wintry aurora]

Looks like the planner SCIM uses.

[stone bane]

But i think those recipes are correct

[stone bane]

What do you mean with manifolds and load balancing?

[wind spade]

some of them may be, but definitely not all of them

it doesn't have a lot of alts

I think it's U3 recipes

[stone bane]

Ohh okay

[wintry aurora]

I prefer the satisfactorytools method anyway.

[stone bane]

But that isn't updatyed?

[wind spade]

it is 🤔

I should know, I made it 😛

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/

[stone bane]

Yeah, found it

xD

[wintry aurora]

Yep, just a few functions aren’t completely working right now.

Like the doubliclick something to make it transparent.

[wind spade]

on U5 version you don't see power requirements and can't doubleclick nodes. Other than that, it's perfectly functional. If you want those features you can use U4 version (because recipes haven't changed).

[wintry aurora]

Been just moving stuff around to compensate for that though.

[tropic hawk]

all those splitters and mergers are trying to load balance. manifolds are easier to set up and expand

[wintry aurora]

I don’t think power requirements have changed in U5 though?

[stone bane]

ohh satisfactorytools is much better xD

[wind spade]

they didn't, I just said you can't see them 😛

[still trout]

what website is this?

[tropic hawk]

u4.satisfactorytools.com

[wintry aurora]

Yea, I prefer that over the visual noise from the SCIM type diagram.

[hard solstice]

No u4 in mine.

[tropic hawk]

that is the update 5 version then

[still trout]

scim is better as an interactive map imo, the giant tree chart takes like 10min to load even if you don't wanna look at it

[wind spade]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/ - update 5 version
https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/ - update 4 version

[tropic hawk]

which reminds me... @wind spade did you fix the power display yet?

[wintry aurora]

Screenshot a bunch of posts above, Nemo.

[wind spade]

#math-and-meta message not yet really. It's on my to-do list tho and today I may finally get some time to work on the tools

[tropic hawk]

good to know.

[tropic hawk]

?

[wintry aurora]

Green answered anyway.

[near zenith]

is there any way to get some list of raw inputs/machine counts from sattools?

[wintry aurora]

*greeny, silly autocorrect.

As in a list of totals?

[near zenith]

like, you set up a recipe, and then instead of just the graph, it also calcs the total raw inputs and number of distinct machines as a small list

[tropic hawk]

there is two tabs: production and power. the u4 site tab for power lists the machines and their power consumptions on average for clock speeds, and total max draw. they also show machine count

[hard solstice]

That would be handy.

[wintry aurora]

I think the power info normally has machine count, but the raws are in the graph.

[near zenith]

the way the graph creates itself, the raws show up in random places

[hard solstice]

Maybe a "Stats" tab with that info.

[near zenith]

i'm thinking a more concise list for reference

[wintry aurora]

Not that random, usually on the left terminal end.

[tropic hawk]

not random, but yes. just look around for the refining processess and trace them back to the raw, then move them all next to each other

[wintry aurora]

Though sometimes they’ll show up in the middle.

[tropic hawk]

usually, but it can get pretty close to center

[near zenith]

so, in answer, no, but manual manipulation and my own notepad solve my problem

and also the u4 power chart

[hard solstice]

The in-game todo list can help with building count.

[wintry aurora]

I game to-do list helps. Edit. Ninjad lol

*in

[near zenith]

oh, wow, yea, u4 power tab is literally exactly what i wanted for the buildings list

[tropic hawk]

the most reccent post in #satisfactory-memes, does anyone know who said it?

[wintry aurora]

Except that I can’t paste plans into there, have to manually copy the settings.

[wintry aurora]

I don’t think it can be attributed to any one person or time period.

[shy sundial]

Oooh.. I finally find out what is used for those fancy graphs.

[tropic hawk]

an update for experimental is out

[wind spade]

for EA*

[tropic hawk]

nope. my version is experimental and it just had an update pop up

[wind spade]

#patch-notes says it's EA update 🤷‍♂️

[tropic hawk]

I know, I am also confused

[wind spade]

so either it's both or you didn't have latest EX

[tropic hawk]

maybe they havne't posted the experimental

[tropic hawk]

it was fine an hour ago so idk...

[wintry aurora]

Experimental is over.

Technically.

[tropic hawk]

says who?

[hard solstice]

#satisfactory-experimental message

[tropic hawk]

that post just says that the channel will be inactive until EA and EX are not the same anymore

[stone bane]

Is it possible to see how i need to split belts on satisfactorytools?

[hard solstice]

No, but the throughput numbers should tell you.

[wind spade]

the thing is that you can split them in pretty much any way you like

[stone bane]

Yes, but for example here:

[deft lichen]

it will balance out eventually

[wintry aurora]

Just using manifolds will work as long as you’re under belt speed limit.

[hard solstice]

If you really want to balance that perfectly it's a lot of splitters and mergers.

4 splitters, 4 mergers.

[tropic hawk]

depends if it is one belt input or 5 belt input, or whatever

[hard solstice]

Ah, true, I didn't take building count into consideration.

[wind spade]

usually people do manifolds. But you can also just balance it. There's many options, that's why I don't really show it

(also, it would make the visualisation that much bigger)

[stone bane]

Yea

[frosty owl]

After about 4 hours, the screw constructors should overflow
||Assuming: rods split in 2, 3 constructors for screws, the other half of the rods doesn't back up first||

[wintry aurora]

And more complex.

[hard solstice]

5×constructor at 50% 🤪

[tropic hawk]

hiss

[tropic hawk]

do 2 constructors at 100% with a 2 split, and 1 at 50.

[deft lichen]

prefill

[thorn bane]

really?
That sounds long

[wind spade]

well practically it would be running at 89% capacity before it fills, so I think that's fine

even if it was 4 hours which I'm not sure if it is really

[frosty owl]

I would just cut one of the rods' belts so the screws fill up faster. Too lazy to wait for the rods to be produced (or God forbid handcraft them )

[wind spade]

if my math is correct, it's 80 minutes

[thorn bane]

that seems more reasonable

[tropic hawk]

you can always pre-charge the system with a surplus of rods

[thorn bane]

im not complaining ive had systems that are ACTUALLY 4h long to fill and didnt care xD

[tropic hawk]

yeah, same here.

also ftr: If you have a massive fuel plant, set it up so everything is on, but the breaker is tripped. then it fills the reservoirs of the generators quickly because it isn't burning the fuel

[frosty owl]

No, yeah, scratch that, I put the wrong consumption in my equation 🤦‍♂️

[errant sable]

yeah just prefill the machines

[thorn bane]

ye 80min seems right

[wind spade]

80 minutes to fill, but running at 89% till then? I'd call that acceptable

[thorn bane]

sint it 90%? its getting 90 screws

[wind spade]

yeah 90%

used wrong numbers lol

20/22.5 instead of 22.5/25

[thorn bane]

one of those days when im motivated ill write a program to calculate fill time of generic factories

[wind spade]

I have it almost ready 🤔

[thorn bane]

oh nice

[wind spade]

supports different amount of buildings, clock speeds, recipes, etc.

also different speeds of belts

it just doesn't have UI yet

and I'm currently doing tons of other stuff so I can't work on that

[thorn bane]

ye expected as much xD

[wind spade]

but it's basically part of the plan to move manifold tool from old site to tools

[tropic hawk]

you deserve more than you get.

[wind spade]

inserts link to patreon and paypal

[wintry aurora]

Manifold tool? First time I've heard the site having one.

[wind spade]

https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/machine-fill

(click the red button 😛 )

[tropic hawk]

it might be a part of the OLD site, the one that has the radiation counter too. (Still waiting for that to come to U4 or U5...)

[wintry aurora]

Ah, update 2, I wasn't around for that.

[thorn bane]

still waiting for the moment someone figures out pipes and calculates the fill time of pipe manifolds
im definitely not smart enough for that

[wind spade]

yeah, the manifold tool technically still works tho

[wind spade]

oh no. No. NO. NOOO.

[tropic hawk]

it is basically the same as splitters. unless you got elevation change. THEN things get complicated

[thorn bane]

i dont think so
pipes dont have to wait until the machine is full
but they kinda do?
idk pipes are weird

[wintry aurora]

The pipe bug with MK2s would screw up the calculations though.

[wind spade]

yeah as I said, there's plan to move those... just not viable right now

[thorn bane]

i think the mk2 bug is overrated

[wind spade]

100% not true.

[thorn bane]

just use 550 throughputand its all fine

[wind spade]

pipes work as in real life pretty much - fluid level is equal in all connected pipes

[tropic hawk]

exactly. but then you have to do math for that, and the valvework too

[thorn bane]

and yet my turbofuel plant always starts from the innermost generator and activates outwards

[tropic hawk]

really? I have had it so each segment was less as if there was a wave of fluid coming down

[wind spade]

well, it's more like "fluid wants to be at equal level"

there's also limit of how much fluid can a pipe move

but it's definitely not "same as belts"

[tropic hawk]

that is how it works. So make sure it is on a tripped circuit so you can prime the tanks

[thorn bane]

again
or you just wait xD

[tropic hawk]

I was talking about the junctions, and the simlarity to splitters

I also said that elevation opens a whole nother can of worms

[wind spade]

well it may seems so, but I think it's more like this:

• every game update, each section of pipe checks how much fluid is in connected sections around
• then it moves fluid to each connected section that has less fluid (I'd assume the bigger the difference, the more fluid gets moved)
• it does all the calculations with keeping headlift and same fluid height in mind

I think there's also viscosity and pressure, but not 100% sure

[tropic hawk]

you sure that you aren't confusing it with real life Fluid dynamics?

[wind spade]

the way fluids behave would support my claim 🤔

and there's viscosity value in game data for each fluid

[thorn bane]

ye the viscosity explains the spread of turbofuel outwards

[frosty owl]

Why not work around that by adding buffers to prefill before activating production?
Can help in smoothing out flow issues and checking fluid levels too~

[thorn bane]

cause i overproduce anyway for the fluid bug

and have a big buffer for that

[tropic hawk]

internal screaming

[thorn bane]

also my turbofuel setups are like the most scuffed setups ever because i plan for nuclear anyway xD

like enough turbofuel for 76.8 gens but i only build 40 because i ddint need more that sort of scuffed

[frosty owl]

You're not alone on the overproduction, unluckily it's the only way to have the majority of your machines on a "flat grid"

[tropic hawk]

really? I produce everything on the nose and use mk.1 pipe for my TFPP, and everything works fine and it is a flat grid

[frosty owl]

Assuming a similar example what I mean is adding buffers along the generators/machines (1 every X) so that you can start making power/production after the local buffers are full and ready to fill up everything

[tropic hawk]

the only spikes were when I forgot to connect my oil nodes to the processing area

[thorn bane]

ye i know what you mean
its just too much effort for me

[frosty owl]

You still build buffers at the producers' site though?

[thorn bane]

hm actually i guess if its just every row its fine

ye 1

[frosty owl]

Yeah, it's not like 1 per machine xDDD
I usually go by 1 big buffer for ~40 machines (2000 fluid for the machines, rest for the pipes themselves)

[versed violet]

Does the game now remember the last used buildable position in the menu, rather than scrolling to the top every time?

[tropic hawk]

wdym?

[frosty owl]

What do you mean by "on the nose" and "TFPP"? 🤔
With "flat grid" I mean a grid flat enough to let you tell if there's an issue and possibly what it could be (by judging the difference between min-max)

[frosty owl]

I think so, yes

[tropic hawk]

exactly, Turbofuel Power Plant.

[versed violet]

I used to curse everytime I used a block from SS because its long list and would reset to very top every time I closed it. It no longer does that

[tropic hawk]

what?

[hard solstice]

I, uh, hotbar and E.

Three foundations? Three ramps? Nah.

4m by default, E for everything else.

[frosty owl]

Well, if you aren't overproducing turbofuel, it's bound to start starving, sooner or later :/
The same goes for production machines so that the power draw is flat too

[tropic hawk]

200 hours in and still working once everything got primed (which took 2 hours)

[frosty owl]

It could run for 10k hours if you had enough buffers and don't quit the game too often 😆

[tropic hawk]

only buffers I have if I have a SHTF scenario and doesn't feed the system unless I turn the valves open

[frosty owl]

If your production is the same as your consumptions, your powerplant will drain ~5*(generators) cubic meters of fluid from your pipes/buffers everytime you load the game. Up to you to calculate how many loads that would take, if you want ^^

[tropic hawk]

10 loads before the last generator drains then. And 3 loads a day... so that should have happened at 5 hours after system saturation.

but I am using mk 1 pipes

[versed violet]

Anyone else annoyed by the fact the new train signals are too tall to fit in half pipe tunnels?

[fierce ruin]

Probably only people who build half pipe tunnels?

[versed violet]

I only know one.
he made an QA post.
https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/619fcc86831c852052361a77

[wintry aurora]

How do I make this work?

[hard solstice]

Looks like you might need a join and split?

[versed violet]

path signals at entry routes, block signals on exits

[wind spade]

why everybody builds roundabouts 😦

they are super inefficient

[hard solstice]

Because no one learned from Factorio.

[versed violet]

Circles are the best shapes.
Balls. Eggs. Tits.

[hard solstice]

If those are round then they're fake.

[wintry aurora]

I'm asking about building it, not the signals.

[wintry aurora]

I'm just messing around here.

I think my roundabout is too tiny anyhow.

[wintry aurora]

Are roundabouts a terrible way to learn the mechancs? Just wondering if.

[oblique hollow]

pressure and head lift are related to a certain degree

[hard solstice]

They lead to deadlocks far more easily than other constructs.

[oblique hollow]

like, below a head lift of 1.5, they roughly equate to the same thing

so head lift could be seen as "any pressure larger than is needed to fill a pipe"

since below 1.5, flow is directly affected by the pressure, which can be seen as headlift

the volume inside a pipe directly regulated this pressure

once a pipe is full, pressure and headlift pretty much disconnect

[versed violet]

Did painted train stations loose their colors??

[vestal rune]

Is building a massive factory of tier 3 or 4 material to burn in to the sink. A feasible stratégie, so you can buy mats off the shop. To move up the tiers without committing to a full range factory, till tier 7-8?

[versed violet]

the shop mats price grows exponentially. Only feasible for speedruns.

[fringe pawn]

I did something like that to instantly unlock a bunch of tiers. I don't regret it.

[magic shadow]

why are roundabouts bad? you can have multiple trains through them at once

ping if reply i will likely forget i asked otherwise

[oblique hollow]

Roundabout bad because circles are a lie

[wind spade]

because they have lower throughput than normal junctions (e.g. the one on the left)

[oblique hollow]

Its Squareabouts

[oblique hollow]

eg the one on the right
The one on the right sure looks like a roundabout

Roundabout = Roundabout confirmed

[wind spade]

I can refer you to this analysis I did before we knew signals are coming. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wHpyQge0Lh2eyeMnvDDyd7o10NVbtHjz-85BfdeFE9c/edit?usp=sharing

the 6 sheets included contain all the info

[thorn bane]

whats the -10 case?

[wind spade]

possibility of deadlock

[thorn bane]

oh rip

[wind spade]

all info is on first sheet

[thorn bane]

ah

[wind spade]

some of the info is incorrect due how path signals work

(I didn't assume they would take next signal into consideration)

but it doesn't really change the fact that roundabouts generally have lower throughput

[oblique hollow]

How would A-D and C-B cause a deadlock

[wind spade]

if the trains are not short enough

[oblique hollow]

Make the roundabout out of path signals lul

[wind spade]

yeah, it only causes deadlock for block signals

[hushed storm]

what about adding bypass lines to the roundabout to increase throughput like https://i.imgur.com/KKDymr5.png

[wind spade]

that makes it better, but still not as good as the normal junction

[gloomy gyro]

So I know that pipes are weird when you try to fill them to capacity, so what's the best way to provide water to nuclear reactors since each needs 300, and extractors make 120?

Does just putting a bunch of extra balancing lines in there take care of it?

[wind spade]

E  E  E  E  E
+--+--+--+--+
   G     G

[gloomy gyro]

Kinda figured 5 to 2 like that would work, I guess since its split up like that you're not relying on 600/min in any section

[stone bane]

Does a coal power plant take 15 coal/minute?

[oblique hollow]

Yes

[stone bane]

👍

[light zodiac]

@magic shadow You go from a 2-channel-bandwidth system, down to a brief single-channel junction which 2>1 (=>-) means bottleneck once you get to higher loads in your system

[wintry aurora]

Interesting. I can see that the low signal one has no deadlocks, but only one train can use the system.

[wind spade]

yeah

[river night]

A turbine junction has all dedicated lines for every direction, naturally that's going to be better, but it's also massively more complex and larger, if it makes a difference depends on traffic

(especially 3d junctions)

(because why wouldn't you go 3d, this ain't Factorio)

[light zodiac]

To maintain Throughput, you have to solve a direct line for any given direction of travel to easily transfer to another leg, with minimal disruption

[river night]

If you combine all of those, and make it 3d so they don't block each other, you get the aforementioned turbine junction :D

[light zodiac]

^^^

hence why i did not overlap them, because 3d space can be used

[river night]

A roundabout has one advantage, it can be used to turn

[light zodiac]

I always make turnarounds a separate feature usually at the depot

[tropic hawk]

unless you add one more path for the left side on each that loops back around.

[river night]

Sure you can add the turning path if you want

[light zodiac]

you could add a bypass that connects to its opposite direction, at any point along the track.

if you want to increase the complexity of your junction, do it!

Trains are fun!

[fierce ruin]

Trains might b fun, but the new signal are a nightmare....

[light zodiac]

Nah, think of it like this

Each "BLOCK" of track is connected by a single color

when that "BLOCK" is occupied by any train, no other trains are allowed to enter

Put a signal at each point that a train can possbly enter the intersection; And one where they exit

Now your system is able to identify when to hold trains to prevent collisions

[topaz hedge]

Yeah.. new signals suck.

[tropic hawk]

honestly, trains are easy. the hard part is figuring out how often trains should be going by

[topaz hedge]

I'm still maintaining acceptable throughput on most of my routes. others needed another train. which is counter productive because that makes congestion worse.

[fierce ruin]

Think I'll have to revisit Snutt - Jacye's train signal U5 video again

[light zodiac]

With multi-stop depots, and proper 2-direction of travel intersections, congestion only happens for a brief moment

[topaz hedge]

I have alot of trains.

[light zodiac]

Fair.

[fierce ruin]

U have my sympathy m8

[light zodiac]

like 7 lane depots on a 2 lane travel system?

[topaz hedge]

something like that.

[light zodiac]

LOL

someone is going to have to build a 2 lane-each way system

[topaz hedge]

2 lane mainline. and something around ~50 stations

[light zodiac]

nuts

[fierce ruin]

ouchhhh

[topaz hedge]

overall it's working. I only had to rebuild the tracks at the main depot in grasslands. nothing else really needed to be touched. just dropped signals and restarted the trains

[light zodiac]

The good thing is, if you did your depot right, most of the downtime is spent loading, and out of the way of traffic

[fierce ruin]

my biggest problem was fitting the signals between the tracks - had to move 1 of the tracks sideways where I put signals

[topaz hedge]

just some of my routes were somewhat long, and high throughput. The added 30 seconds or so of travel time actually broke it. adding another train fixed it. but slowed other routes down lol

[light zodiac]

If you have that much traffic at your intersections, and thats where you are bottlenecking, time to add more connections lol

[topaz hedge]

I thought about it. unless they optimize the game a bit so it runs better my world is about done for anyway

[ashen girder]

Is that still the one you sent me?

Because.. yeah. 😂

[stone bane]

Is 4 water extractors on 150% not enough for 16 coal power plants?

It should be 720 water / 16 plants = 45 per coal plant

But somehow the last power plants are not getting enough water

Now it works....... This is weird

[ashen girder]

Is your piping good?

[stone bane]

I don't know xD

First time doing it

[ashen girder]

Well, pipes can only carry 300 or 600.

So you need at least 2 Mk2 pipes or 3 Mk1 pipes.

[stone bane]

That i know

[ashen girder]

Well, if you find yourself having brownouts again, check to make sure you aren't trying to pull more than the limit through the pipes.

[stone bane]

Yeah, that won't be the problem. The problem is that the last few meters of pipe are not having enough flow rate

[ashen girder]

Well, that's always candidate number 1 for the problem. 😂 Especially if the pipe's horizontal.

[stone bane]

Now it is working but i have no idea what fixed it

[topaz hedge]

you need to standby your generators after you build them to allow the system to fill with coal or fuel, and water.

[stone bane]

Yeah i think that was the problem

[topaz hedge]

you'll have to do it for fuel generators when you get those too.

[stone bane]

Yeah

Ahh finally i wont have to go and get biomass all the time

[fierce ruin]

Alright guys, here's a math problem. I have 18 metal rod constructors and I need to make enough bolts and rods to make steel rotors. How many metal rod constructors do I have to turn into bolts?

[ashen girder]

You have 18 lemons. You want enough lemons and oranges to make lemon-and-orange-pie. How many lemon trees do you have to turn into orange trees?

[ashen girder]

Trick question. Steel rotors use pipes and wire. 🤔

[fierce ruin]

This takes 20 rods and 100 bolts per min

[ashen girder]

😂 Not if you use the steel rotor recipe.

[fierce ruin]

Oh

[fierce ruin]

My bad

The regular rotor

[ashen girder]

So you want to know.. given your 864 rods per minute, how many you should take off and consume for screws?

[fierce ruin]

18 rod constructors give you 270 rods/min

Yes

[ashen girder]

Oh. I was looking at steel rods. 😂

[fierce ruin]

Lol

[ashen girder]

So you need 5 times as many screws as rods.

And 1 rod turns into 4 screws.

Sounds like a set of equations.

[stuck iron]

I get less smoke escaping out my ears if I start from the desired end product and work backwards

[fierce ruin]

How many rotor constructors can I make out of 18 metal rod constructors

[ashen girder]

I mean, I was about to tell you, but now I kinda don't want to. 😂

[fierce ruin]

My brain hurts, I did the math wrong and spent 1.5 hours building a skyscraper which wasn't even made properly

[ashen girder]

Fine. Say please next time though. 😂 24.

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=gRTKCwCDEUkdyvpID3jv

of Rods * 4 / 45

[fierce ruin]

This is genius, thank you

[topaz hedge]

Doesn't even look like a real rotor.

[ashen girder]

You don't look like a real rotor.

[topaz hedge]

sure i do

[ashen girder]

Pics or GTFO.

[topaz hedge]

this is pretty much the irl stator inside your pc's case fans

ig the satisfactory rotor is sorta similar

[ashen girder]

Neither of those is you tho.

[oblique hollow]

The satis rotor is some weird hybrid of brake pads glued to some miniature rotors

[fringe pawn]

I've always thought it looked more like a pool filter 😛

[magic island]

every ingot in satisfactory is actually a little pile of 12 ingots 🤯

[young loom]

Why does the calculator make things so difficult sometimes?
It would be easier to merge the two rods and split an even three ways >>

[wind spade]

that's why I prefer using simple view (or different calculator) and make belting myself 😉

[young loom]

Even the smart splitters are not so smart

So much cleaner

Anyway, I have been looking for a way to simplify making frames

Forgive my art skills, but this is what I came up with. Not 100% material efficient, but the precision math is a pain

Fits nicely in a 3x5 footprint

Any way to improve on this, or do you just eat the buffer costs?

Prior to this, I just tried making a factory section for each part and merging them later. That was a headache

The only real downside to this design is the output ends up distributed

[vast jungle]

just put an additional small floor below your factory for long-range/cross belts... so you can easily transport stuff across without disturbing the nice factory layout

[young loom]

Except it isn't quite like that as everything outputs to external.

[hard solstice]

Cast Screws would help.

[young loom]

Yes and No as then I would have a glut on screws

Here is roughly the full design

[hard solstice]

Underclock the constructor.

[young loom]

Oh everything is underclocked, besides the frame assembler

In any case, thats two mods to a side, so it outputs on both ends of the building

[hard solstice]

I'd think using multiple floors would help.

That way you could fold it along the vertical.

[topaz hedge]

or just having a little more space on your single floor maybe

[young loom]

Oh I have multiple floors of this specific design

Well, the alt would be change the footprint and stretch the furnaces a little

But, that doesn't look quite as neat, and takes away that the current layout can accept input on any side of the building

In all, this design outputs 8 frames a minute. The math tells me it has enough resource for 10 a minute

I just gather the output outside the factory floor

I'm not too familiar with folding factories. I did try it once and it was a mess

This monster also outputs the same as the new design, but takes up a lot more space and looks like a mess

[thorn bane]

guys satisfactory is 3d
If you want throughput build this
if you dont care about throughput (its only a few trains) then roundabouts are fine
actually i guess the normal function is faster to build but w/e at that point it doesnt matter
also am i the only one that only has T junctions and never 4 ways?

[hard solstice]

I dislike 4-ways.

But I'm not into trains in Satisfactory yet.

[thorn bane]

i think im gonna build those for my high throughput lanes

[river night]

4 ways are uncommon to need, at least in that dimension, at least in my setup. I'm planning to build one in the center of the map just because i think that design is great 😄

[hard solstice]

You have three dimensions, may as well build cloverleafs.

[thorn bane]

isnt a 4way just 2 T junctions

[hard solstice]

No, it's 4 T junctions.

[river night]

its more like one and a half T junction, you take 3 ends and add a 4th, assuming your T is double-laned already

[wind spade]

ofc. I was just talking about simple 2D junctions. If you are already commited to building a 2D junction and don't want to waste space, still don't build roundabout but a normal crossing junction

[nova steppe]

idk if this is math or meta but I want to have my storage system split up into three parts moving from simple products(iron plates, concrete etc.) to advanced products(motors, rotors, A.I Limiters) to complex products(Computers, Heavy Modular Frames)

I just need 3 colours to differentiate them, any tips on that?

[wind spade]

I'd use the customizer to color them 🤔

[nova steppe]

I am, but just asking about colour pallete

that's why im not sure, cuz idk if colour palleting is a math/meta question

[wind spade]

that's very subjective question also

pick colors that you like lol

[nova steppe]

okis, I'll just look up colour pallets

[uncut sigil]

Colour coordinating scheme might be slightly meta, but colour choice isn't all that much. Pick something you can remember 🙂

[oblique hollow]

Color choice is #opinion-and-styling

[uncut sigil]

My colour schemes are haphazard at best. I usually just break up large halls of constructors with colours. Like, screws blue, rods black, plates white. etc.

[oblique hollow]

I color everything by product color and thats not the best choice for cohesiveness

Since a single factory becomes a multicolor mess

Buuuuut when it works out it works out nice

[nova steppe]

Yeah I just make my factories mostly black with colourful detials

[oblique hollow]

If thats what you like then yea

[vapid gorge]

I've never heard of a 'folding factory' and nothing comes up in google, what do you mean?