math-and-meta

[warm sphinx]

its clipping

[quick pawn]

remove and replace but look at the ceiling

instead of looking at the top of the pillar

[warm sphinx]

better?

[quick pawn]

imo it's better than having it flat but it's your world in the end

[oblique hollow]

yes. if you are very OCD you would make:
1 Pillar, one Gap, 2 Pillars, one Gap, 1 Pillar

that makes it symmetrical

[warm sphinx]

ah

well, im not OCD in that, im more trying to make it look pretty

[oblique hollow]

then this will do c:

[warm sphinx]

this looks kinda ugly

[oblique hollow]

you could use just 2 then: the far right and far left pillar

[warm sphinx]

rockets

[quick pawn]

#screenshots message
That depth rule is why I have those parts with pillars dividing the floors, they do literally nothing else, it's just wasted space that takes ages to build but I prefer it to just a flat cylinder all the way up

[drowsy anchor]

Hello everyone, I'm trying to setup fuel generators, and I need to have some consuming 8 fuel instead of 12. But, 66% doesn't match at all that number, the closest one is 59% but it produces 99.99 MW and I'm trying to get rid of that .99 but whatever I'm trying I can't get that exact percentage (for example 246.2289% clockspeed for consuming 24 fuel and producing 300.00 MW of power). Does anyone knows the formula or the percentage ? 😄

[drowsy anchor]

Just found the answer, if you're interested, 59,0312% to use exactly 8 fuel/min and produce exactly 100.00 MW (that was hard to find)

[regal kayak]

@drowsy anchor for future reference: https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Clock_speed#Clock_speed_for_power_generators

that formula gets you the same result though so you are correct

ofc assuming by 66% you mean 66.66 repeating, or 2/3

which you probably do, since you said you need it to consume 8 instead of 12 😀

[fierce ruin]

related but agrees with result #math-and-meta message

[drowsy anchor]

Thanks ! :D

[frosty pawn]

clock speed input field accepts math, so if you need exactly 2/3 clock speed you can type 200/3 instead of 66.66666666666666666666

also if you need like 1/8th you can type 100/8 when your brain is tired. it also helps for more advanced things but i can't think of any right now lol

oh, heavy enchased frame alt makes 2.8125/min but if you want 3 and dont know how much to overclock you can just type this over the orange numbers 100*3/2.8125 (100 because you want a percentage, desired output is 3, normal output is 2.8125)

[versed violet]

Can't you actually type desired MW in the field?

[drowsy anchor]

No for generators it does not work

[versed violet]

awww...

[wicked tinsel]

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/6092b13daa0ba107e325c943

[pallid turtle]

it is worth to use the instant scrap recipe?

[versed violet]

IMO no, its the least power and resource efficient recipe according to my math

[cedar mica]

I will say Instant Scrap, is only worth it, if you have Sulfur not used for other things

[elder folio]

this game is cool

[pallid turtle]

oh, right, thanks guys

[oblique hollow]

pro buffer usage

[frigid wave]

Need some help cuz my brain hurts. I have 4 constructors making 260 screws each, total of 1040, I need to feed those to 17 assemblers. Each assembler takes 60 screws pm. Can I feed them all if I use a manifold connected to all of them at once with a MK4 belt, but after every 4th assembler there is a new line feeding 260 new screws into it. I'm hoping that things overflow somehow and through the back ups that that causes everything with be fed without an issue.

Not ready to test things yet so that's why I'm asking

[rapid nimbus]

I can try

[sullen cloud]

@frigid wave injection method works. However you would need 3 injection manifolds because of the belt limit of 480

[frigid wave]

Yeah, I forgot to mention that each of the screw constructors has its own line. The screws aren't going on 1 line for obv. reasons

Here's a drawing of what I mean

Missed a line above the 4th merger one is supposed to be there

[rapid nimbus]

looking cool

[terse gust]

nice

[frigid wave]

So it should work? Or am I missing something

Thinking that the excess 20 screws from every 4th machine should be the factor that makes this work, since there is an over production that is on purpose

[glacial hemlock]

It won't work. Because the 4th and 8th machine from top will get starved while the bottom 2 feeder belts will get backup

It will work if you use at least 2 smart splitters in this manifold

[onyx dome]

Spreadsheet time.

[wind peak]

late to this but just sink the excess

[void socket]

I am making 300 turbofuel that goes into 66 fuel generators and I calculate I am only consuming 297 turbofuel, but my power production graph is not steady. What's the problem?

[sand epoch]

Guessing.. there is a clog upstream.. either the heavy fuel, or resin..?

[frosty owl]

If you turned on the system recently, it's gonna take a while before all generators produce power stably (they need to fill up first)

[cold rock]

@void socket I'm having a similar problem with a pre-upd4 turbofuel plant producing 320m3 turbofuel to 72 fuel generators that I cannot figure out either.

I expect 10.8GW and I'm getting 10.2GW and all generators are fueled. It's not enough to impact my production, but enough to make me scratch my head.

A thing I couldn't have noticed pre Upd4, but now that I have my grids separated I am kind of just looking at.

[frosty owl]

72 fuel generators consume 324 turbofuel/min

Unless you underclock one generator (or make them 71 to be safe), the system is bound to starve

[cold rock]

You are mathematically right, but that starvation rate is only worth like 75MW

and it's fluid buffered

Let me drive back and take a look real quick

(man, now i'm gonna have to find the one gen at .66)

[frosty owl]

The amount of MW lost isn't much relevant, imo
As long as you have batteries, you can simply ignore the issue in the first place

[cold rock]

This is math and meta, we ignore nothing. Anyway, it looks like there's random variance. I'm watching my production numbers on this isolated circuit bounce from 10.3 to 10.9GW now that I've driven out to it.

Much like the recent changes to Geothermal, it looks like it's just a thing.

[frosty owl]

It's pretty normal, it would be weirder if it was only a single generator starving to be honest, unless you set up your pipes for such a purpose

Sometimes 10 may starve, sometimes they all run for a moment

[cold rock]

That's not right either. But also my grid is wrong, now that I've flipped my kill switch. Some of my capacity is on the other grid. Son of a gun.

The generations were never random before.

[frosty owl]

If you mean before U4, that's to be expected. Power production changed quite drastically

Unless you set up your pipes so that the last of the 72 generators has the lowest priority in the system (making it 1m higher than the rest of them would suffice), you cannot expect a single generator to starve. It will be multiple ones starving

[cold rock]

Valves are a thing, but in my case you're correct. I found both a bad cable route and a shortage based on my piping just now.

4m/3 shortages worth .4GW out of 10.8GW. Alas.

And this, people, is why you should have buffers

fluid buffers make up for your math mistakes (within reasonable margins)

Huh. I put 2 out of 72 on standby and I can still see a cascading shortage across a back corner. Even with 162+162 valved coming out of two separate fluid buffers,

nm it was graphical

That's stable, but that's certainly not any multiplier of 150MW. Do the lines themselves have drain?

Let me go up and down the line again and make sure I don't have anything downcycled.

I did

It's stable. Math wins again. I wasn't running a full 72.

Second by second, there's still some variation in the number on the power pole that I don't think is explainable by fuel shorts, but it's like, less than half a percent and might just be aesthetic.

Actually I guess that's easily falsifiable. Let me cut off like 6 gens.

okay yes

fuel gen generation has zero variance when isolated

[woven glacier]

I just think this is cool. I used satisfactorytools and I'm pretty sure that the power needed for a max thermal propulsion rocket and 21 uranium fuel rods per minute factory + mining and extracting of every resource node (except water resource wells, SAM nodes, and unnecessary water) + water extraction needed for factory can be provided by using 21 uranium fuel rods per minute. I think it would make 103.48365077199499495463 TPR per minute, and 21.000000000000 UFR per minute and use 20.93632794 UFR for power. I just think this is cool. The factory doesn't use all the resources on the map either, so I might be able to make some assembly directory systems and get the extra power from fuel. but still, the first mentioned factory is pretty cool

and the extra .064 or so of UFR might be used for pipeline pumps to further even this out

[glacial hemlock]

How many GW you mean?

[woven glacier]

256,470.02 MW I think. so about 256 GW

[glacial hemlock]

Wow, with only that amount, plutonium is not even needed

[woven glacier]

The factory itself uses 197814.71497 MW. 50,587.19 MW is used for resource extraction, and 48408.69 m^3 water per minute is needed for the factory. (If we assume 100% clocking for everything except extracting of course.) 8,068.12 MW of power would be used for this water extraction, so we get a total of 256,470.02 MW used for the factory and resource extraction. (not including water needed for power plants) Now if we assume Nuclear power plants provide a net of 2450 MW of power instead of 2500 MW because water extraction per power plant is 50 MW, we can ignore adding this water extraction value to the initial equation and looping this over and over again. 256,470.02 / 2450 = 104.6816397 nuclear power plants. 104.6816397 x 0.2 = 20.93632794 uranium fuel rods.

ya

and 256 GW, a good power of 2

[glacial hemlock]

A uranium-based nuclear power plant provides 2.323 nett power, including all of its running cost.

That includes rods, water, etc

[woven glacier]

I did not subtract power needed to produce the fuel rods

[glacial hemlock]

Oh, you included it in the factory cost

[woven glacier]

i should of addressed that, i apologize

[glacial hemlock]

The cost of rod is less than 10% so it isn't much

[woven glacier]

also, can I get a confirmation that 103.48365077199499495463 TPR per minute is max output?

up to 20 decimals at least, i didnt care to go further

[frosty owl]

I don't think it makes sense to go over 8 decimals for... Practical reasons 😆

[woven glacier]

ya

i kinda wanted to test the limits of the calculator, but i got too tired of doing so after 20

and google sheets gave 2 decimal numbers, so i might have to go to 8 to get the best precision

*decimal digits

The next step now is to add as many assembly directory systems to the output as well as fuel to power it.

i think

[cold rock]

yeah no, something isn't right about turbofuel burn rate in fuel gens

[sand garnet]

4.5 per min

[wind spade]

wdym?

[cold rock]

Sorry, sorry, I think it's still my setup.

I think I'm still not calc'ing 100% fuel burn correctly.

....yeah I'm just a month late regearing to these changes.

If there's a problem it's in the fluid flow, but the problem is almost certainly just me.

[frosty owl]

Unless you're maxing out pipes, that's most likely the case xD

[cold rock]

Well I was, I just calc'ed them to the old rules.

I have just replaced my split pipes with a single mk2 pipeline.

I guess thhe other way to look at it is the previous partial burn algorithm masked my inefficient piping...

idk

Lesson learned. Efficiency is about whose system is measuring.

But yeah remembering that I have one fuelgen at 11%:

out of 72 so 71.11

when i separate this grid

shit's working

it was just this old simple ocncept:

[glacial hemlock]

turbo heavy fuel won't last very long

[wind spade]

Fuel gen at 11% doesn't consume 11% of fuel tho

[scenic moth]

Hey ! Whats the most efficient way to have the most fuel ? ( sorry if my sentence doesnt make sense i'm french )

[glacial hemlock]

!wikisearch fuel

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=fuel

[glacial hemlock]

Besides the preview, more can be found on the fuel wiki page

[scenic moth]

Ty

[fierce ruin]

Starting on tier 7 still stuck after a while is 15 RCU enough to start out? Or should I beef it up a little?

[warm sphinx]

1 side goes up, the other side goes down

this is useless xD

[oblique hollow]

peak efficiency

[river venture]

Useless MachineTM

[glacial hemlock]

@fierce ruin 15rcu is pretty decent if you haven't unlock all thr tech and alternates.

[vague goblet]

XD its perfect

[warm sphinx]

ikr

[sullen cloud]

!wikisearch turbofuel

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=turbofuel

[trim maple]

how much quickwire can i get out of one pure caterium node if i use the fused quickwire recipe

[oblique hollow]

max overclocked node i assume?

[cold rock]

oh crap, you're right

wait, yes it does, check the burn time here compared to normal

[oblique hollow]

thats not 11% of it tho

[cold rock]

ohhhh

[bronze silo]

I wish to deliver 300 screws to 3 machines and only have mk3 belts ... what solutions do you guys recommend?

[cold rock]

yeah it's 18% consumption for 11% output. interesting

[oblique hollow]

nnnnope

you dont get out less either

[cold rock]

is the wiki page up to date on this?

[oblique hollow]

16,5 MW would be 11% output

yes, it should be

gens use non-linear scaling

18,3 % consumption, 18,3% output for 11% clock speed

Formula is (Clock Speed / 100) ^(1/1.3)

and then you multiply what you get from that with consumption and power production

[cold rock]

oh weird

okay, but the fuel to energy conversion rate is always the same right? the only benefit to over or underclocking is space usage for generators?

[sand garnet]

Yes

[wind spade]

exactly. But you're losing the nice non-decimal numbers, so I usually suggest to not overclock or underclock a gen

[cold rock]

yeah, the original design just tried to use exactly 320m3 of turbofuel and i'm just trying to get as close to that back as I can and keep all the gens stable. I think that last bit of knowledge makes it work. One gen set to 5%, which is very close to 10% consumption, turned a few gens off so the pipes will fill, valved it precisely, and never design a build this way again

haha

[glacial hemlock]

@cold rock not entirely updated to latest. But the community (which you can also contribute :D) is trying their best to catch up with the latest

[glacial hemlock]

If you specifically mean the underclocking, then yes. The info on the wiki is the latest

[viscid shadow]

If you use alt:Heavy oil to make diluted fuel and rubber, then used the fuel and rubber to make recycled plastic, would that be the most efficient way to make plastic?

[manic oak]

I believe so. Side bonus, I actually calculated the best way to set that loop up: Convert all of your oil into heavy oil, and then all of your heavy oil into fuel. Fuel is your limiting resource here, and you need to take 2/3 of it to put into the main recycled recipe you want, and 1/3 of it to make the secondary product. In other words, if you want to make recycled rubber, take 2/3 of your fuel to make recycled rubber and 1/3 to make the recycle plastic to fund it.

[viscid shadow]

Yah i was thinking you could just go back and forth to make infinite plastic/rubber b/c you are just adding fuel.

[manic oak]

The fuel is the limiting resource, so you can't

But you can maximize the amount you get with those ratios

[viscid shadow]

Now I kinda want to make that instead of turbo fuel, LOL

[warm sphinx]

guys, 1 mega base that has all resources in 1 spot, would that be great or not at all?

[grave quail]

seems impossible

[warm sphinx]

why?

[warm sphinx]

guys, is it true there are only 5 types of ingots : iron ingot, copper ingot, steel ingot, caterium ingot and aluminum Ingot?

[wind spade]

Not really, as you also use residual rubber recipe

[manic oak]

Right, you can use the residual recipe to turn the polymer resin into rubber/plastic to fuel part of the recycled process. The rest has to be funded through the final product

[sand garnet]

Yes

[glacial hemlock]

You might need to produce quartz crystal alongside other ingots as they have very similar setup.

[warm sphinx]

ah no, thats alright, i was just thinking of the first few layouts of my megabase

[glacial hemlock]

Same for limestone too. Although they both are not named 'ingot'

[warm sphinx]

oh thx

so i need 4 floors with refineries at the beginning for sure

[wind spade]

it's better to split stuff instead of having one big megabase tho

[warm sphinx]

why?

[strong whale]

prevent lag, expansion is much easier, I'm sure there are other reasons

[warm sphinx]

true, for now, im gonna make a megabase that makes the basic items (reinforced plates and rotters included)

[strong whale]

Is that really a megabase then or just a large factory 🤔

[warm sphinx]

idk

[cursive badge]

we really do live in a society

but yes that is a large factory

[wind spade]

building modular stuff, much easier to expand, less lag, less planning needed, less things can go wrong, easy to rebuild one part, ...

[warm sphinx]

ah ok

[swift robin]

the way resources are spread out the map with little groups of iron and copper close together often it makes it easy to make lots of single-item factories right next to the nodes.

then i have ot figure out where to take them... but if i had one hub base where it all comes to then the logistics work would be still be huge so i don't see much of a downside

[oblique hollow]

heres an interesting suggestion for a possible coke recipe alt from coal: https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/60abd8dc87eb2517089137e7

I think if it was possible to turn coal into coke via alt, it could be a great way to make some recipes simpler (Electrode Circuit Board, a few other alts that use coke)

ech, why did it have to make that box

[high wave]

i feel like a rescipe that turns coal and a tiny bit of HOR into coke would be nice but completely eliminating oil from it is a bit too op

[wind spade]

you can remove it or put link in <>

[oblique hollow]

sounds like another refinery recipe

ofc, the recipe wouldnt turn coal into coke 1-1

more like, one coal = 0.75 coke

[wind spade]

we have tons of oil tho, why add another recipe that removes oil usage?

at this point it's probably coal that is more valuable in the lategame

[high wave]

true

[oblique hollow]

make more recipes use coke but make coal to coke another normal recipe?

obviously adding a recipe that turn coal to coke would require balancing

[high wave]

i just feel like coke kinda has to be rooted in oil for the same reasons plastic does

[oblique hollow]

it doesnt have to, really

plastic from oil makes sense

but coke? its literally as easy as burning coal

realistically, adding coke from coal would require a rebalance of everything that uses coal or coke

more work for Mark xd

[bleak coral]

Mechanically though it's used as the "solid" form of oil to replace coal with in alt recipes

[high wave]

i feel like a cool idea that requires even more rebalancing is a new building that partially burns things to change them

it can either produce or consume power

[bleak coral]

I don't think it makes sense thematically to go back to coal

[high wave]

and can do things like turn coal to coke

[oblique hollow]

the main idea here was to pull the smelter out from its pitifull 4 recipe hole

[high wave]

smelter mk2 with more recipes

like what i was saying

[oblique hollow]

another idea i had was a new machine: Galvanizer

[high wave]

oo big word

[oblique hollow]

has varying power usage like the Particle accelerator, but smaller scale

[high wave]

i feel like more things should have variable usage than just trains and accelerators

[oblique hollow]

you input like 1 or 2 materials and a bit of power and get a coated material out

another idea i had was a pure recipe for iron that uses limestone and ore

since thats one of the other main usages of limestone irl: cleansed iron

could be for the foundry

guess i gotta get into mod development and play around with these ideas ingame

[high wave]

a cool idea could be to remove fused quickwire and wire and use that machine to make a new item similar to compact coal in how its unlocked called caterium alloy or something similar that is used for both fused recipes

[oblique hollow]

it just adds another step

you would have to give that thing more usages

[bleak coral]

Limestone for an all-solid version of the pures would be neat, foundry is underused

[oblique hollow]

smelter too

[high wave]

the smelter is just so limited

1 in 1 out and made to heat things makes thematic sense for nothing

[oblique hollow]

honestly, for the "low tier" ores, foundry pure recipe would be nice

time to make another suggestion i guess

[high wave]

if anything we should have a new building for pure alts

purifier or something

[oblique hollow]

ore washing machine

[high wave]

it would be cool to see a building with an animation involving water jets or something like that

[oblique hollow]

just a giant washing machine

[high wave]

ye

blender but sideways lol

oh wait another fun idea

washing machine takes packaged water and ore, and outputs refined item and empty packages

[glacial hemlock]

vertical rotation doesn't sounds very efficient way to mix things.

[high wave]

so 2 conveyor in, 2 conveyor out

and specifically for washing ores

[oblique hollow]

packager but its a washing machine lol

[high wave]

exactly

[glacial hemlock]

washing ores? Angel mods flashback

[high wave]

just a cool idea to not spam refineries

[glacial hemlock]

refineries: always have been. Even after u4

[oblique hollow]

limestone for low tier purified ores

theres way too many water recipes

[sand garnet]

what does it do?

that galvanizer

[oblique hollow]

tbh it kinda does what the foundry does right now: apply coatings. Galvanizing is applying a zinc coating

the only reason i though of a new building is because i doubt that the foundry would get recipes with varying power consumption

like any electrolysis or electrical coating things

[sand garnet]

but what use does galvanizing have in the game

im all for more intermediate steps like rods > screws etc

maybe gears would be nice

[oblique hollow]

i kinda lost the original thought for the galvanizer

[sand garnet]

lol

sorry

[oblique hollow]

it now evolved into: pure recipes that dont use refinery and coke made from coal

for iron, the foundry could do pure by using limestone and iron ore

as for caterium and copper: electrolysis is the way. and carbon anodes could be used for that

so more coke or coal

bascially please no more refineries, the smelter and foundry are starving for work

[sand garnet]

would it replace the existing pure recipes or add extra options like the alloys

IMO adding more recipes like galvanized item would be nice

[oblique hollow]

ideally it would kill the normal pure recipes

just replace them with foundry and limestone / coal

[sand garnet]

hmm yeah I'd be on board with that

[oblique hollow]

im writing the post for that right now

[sand garnet]

I've wanted a purifier machine but it was hard to make it exist for just alts

so foundry having more usages with this is great

replace pure X with galvanized X

[oblique hollow]

the foundry is heavyly underutilized just like the smelter

[sand garnet]

the only outlier would be pure quartz I guess

[oblique hollow]

its still pure recipes, but now it just uses limestone instead of water for iron and coke / coal for copper and caterium

galvanizing would be something else

like..... Galvanized Sheets

[sand garnet]

ah

[oblique hollow]

i guess i could also research quartz purification processes

buuut quartz is pretty high tier, so refinery seems ok there

[sand garnet]

pure alu?

[oblique hollow]

its just that we do not need the high tier refinery for Tier -1000 Iron

[sand garnet]

yeah true

[oblique hollow]

still pretty accurate and fair right now

i dont wanna mess with the alu cycle

[sand garnet]

the only downside I see from this change is that you'd have a split between where to look for recipes

pure X in refinery, pure Y in foundry

[oblique hollow]

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/60abef8487eb25170891380d
here it is

my second post today, next to a possible recipe for coal based coke

[sand garnet]

added my 2 cents

[oblique hollow]

gonna further peak into the madness that is alts and normal recipes

i guess my suggestion is one way to resolve the "pure recipes need their own machine" problem

just move em to the foundry

for quartz: nobody mines this stuff for industrial purposes. its all synthetically grown

which would be pretty cool in satis, actually

it would turn the production route on its head

from silica to crystal, not the other way around

its kinda a mix

you use natural quartz and a seed crystal

[sand garnet]

So refine quartz somehow and then use refined material in foundry?

[oblique hollow]

its called Hydrothermal Synthesis. aaaaand its pretty close to what we have ingame

[frosty owl]

Refine diamonds out of coal and nitrogen

[oblique hollow]

throw in natural quartz and an alkali solvent, cook at a high pressure and temperature and tadah: synthetic quartz

guess thats a trivia for the wiki

Autoclave is the magic machine here

hmmm..... that would actually be cool for satis

it uses heat and pressure for refining things

[frosty owl]

So... pressure conversion cubes in the mix?

[oblique hollow]

pressure conversion cube could be a machine part

[frosty owl]

I'm liking this train of thought...

[oblique hollow]

basically industrial pressure cooker

[frosty owl]

I notice a lack of cubes for the conversion of pressure

[fierce ruin]

McGalleon putting the pressure on our 🧠

[oblique hollow]

turbomotor alt uses them and yet the motor is not square

however.....

there are square autoclaves

tiny

we basically got our washing machine here

just..... less washy and more pressure cooky

guess i could attempt to draw a FICSIT Autoclave

basically mini refinery

it would be one of those machines that constantly need water for everything

[frank leaf]

My planned Nuclear Setup:
24 Nuclear Power Plants = 240/min Waste
12 Manufacturers Uranium Fuel Rod = 4.8/min
3.6 Assembler Encased Industrial Pipe = 14.4/min
5.04 Constructor Steel Pipe = 100.8/min
151.2/min Steel Ingot
7.2 Constructor Concrete = 108/min
324/min Limestone
6 Assembler Electromagnetic Control Rod = 24/min
7.2 Assembler Stator = 36/min
5.4 Constructor Steel Pipe = 108/min
162/min Steel Ingot
9.6 Constructor Wire = 288/min
144/min Copper Ingot
4.8 Assembler AI Limiter = 24/min
8 Constructor Quickwire = 480/min
96/min Caterium Ingot
12 Constructor Copper Sheet = 120/min
240/min Copper Ingot
12 Manufacturers Infused Uranium Cell = 240/min
300/min Uranium
300/min Sulfur
9 Assembler Fused Quickwire = 900/min
67.5/min Caterium Ingot
337.5/min Copper Ingot
4.8 Constructor Silica = 180/min
108/min Quartz

2.4 Blender Non fissile Uranium = 120/min + 36/min Water
90/min Waste
1.6 Constructor Silica = 60/min
1.2 Blender Nitric Acid = 36/min
144/min Nitrogen Gas
36/min Water
12/min Iron Plate
0.72 Refineries Sulfuric Acid = 36/min
36/min Sulfur
36/min Water
1.2 Particle Accelerator Plutonium Pellet = 36/min
120/min Non fissile Uranium
30/min Waste
3.6 Assembler ENcased Plutonium Cell = 18/min
36/min Plutonium Pellet
72/min Concrete
1.8 Assembler Plutonium Fuel Unit = 0.9/min
18/min Encased Plutonium Cell
0.9/min Pressure Conversion Cube

WHY MUST NUCLEAR BE SUCH A PAIN

[oblique hollow]

Nice shopping list

[frank leaf]

yeah, setting this up will take forever

[oblique hollow]

have fun ~

[frank leaf]

and then I have to set this up another 6 times to use all the uranium in the world

[oblique hollow]

welll....... its your fault for wanting to use it all xd

[fierce ruin]

you forgot to add sanity to the list dum dum

[oblique hollow]

input needed per nuclear setup: 65.333333 sanity / min

[oblique hollow]

btw @sand garnet i thought about the crystals and the seed crystals again:
what about the blender for pure crystals: Raw Quartz plus some quartz crystals go in (the seeds) and water, out comes the crystals

the blender already has a recipe where water goes in and out, so quartz crystals going in and out surely works too

[sand garnet]

That would require a lot of blenders which arent small either

Why not foundry and omit the water

[oblique hollow]

just... make the recipe more efficient

the blender is a big boi

im sure it can do like 120 crystals / min output

[sand garnet]

Hm yeah true

Make it eat a lot and output a lot

[oblique hollow]

problem solved 🧠

[sand garnet]

Removes the need for massive manifolds

Post it and link me :p

[oblique hollow]

sure, it adds a bit more complexity since you need to feed part of the output back in

buuut it could then output more, as counterbalance

lets take a look at the current recipe....

there. now..... how to change thiss....

how about.....
In: 150/min raw quartz /min + 82,5 Water /min + 12,875 Quartz Crystal = 112,875 Quartz Crystal Out

welll...... time to make that post xd

[sand garnet]

Insane like 220 in x out

[grave quail]

yall over here solving disease and i cant figure out how to make two 60/min lines into 1 100/min line

[fierce ruin]

overflow

[grave quail]

like just put a storage unit next to it?

[fierce ruin]

or just put a splitter down split one off merge the other two lines

[grave quail]

that would only be 90 tho

[fierce ruin]

bam 40 + 60

(2/3)*60 + 60

[grave quail]

youre a genius

[fierce ruin]

I wish

[grave quail]

you just blew my mind, i guess is forgot that there is 3 ends to a splitter

[bronze silo]

hey guys, are there any resources that can help me to plan a build such as Crystal Oscillators, where my defining resource is the amount of Quartz I can process?
rather than how my CO's I want to build?

[oblique hollow]

Satisfactory tools. You enter the amounz of raw quartz you got an it spits out a production line

If you go for "maximize" for the COs

[bronze silo]

hmmmm

is that part of Satisfactory Calculator or something else?

[oblique hollow]

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production

[bronze silo]

thank you so much!

[manic oak]

If your only limiting resource is Quartz, you could use the wiki (search: Satisfactory crystal oscillator), select a recipe, and then start planning

[topaz hedge]

quartz is kinda hard to find irl I guess, because it's a rock mixed in with lots of other rocks perhaps, and I think most uses for quartz requires silly high purity, so it's more economical to dig up a beach full of sand and process the sand for the silica.

[bronze silo]

what a convenient start ... it requires 270 iron ore per min, lol

[oblique hollow]

not really

[sand garnet]

isnt quartz also in sand?

[oblique hollow]

yes

thats the main component of sand

silicone dioxide in the form of quartz

[sand garnet]

< big brain

[frosty owl]

@oblique hollow @topaz hedge
I'm getting onto the testing wagon too. If you got any tips on tests to make, I'll gladly add them if they don't take too much time to make ^^

What I have atm:

• 600/min balancer test: 2 Impure nodes merge, feed check container A. Container A feeds a 600/min reducer (mk2+mk4 split-merge) which in turn feeds 20 smelters with two different kinds of balancing (both using smart splitters but in different ways). The smelters feed checking container B which feeds a sink after a 600/min reducer. If everything works as intended the 2 storages should maintain their inventory unchanged (this has been true for 2 whole game sessions)

-780/min mixed merge-split: one pure copper and pure limestone node feed into a ISC each. The ISC splits this into 2 belts, merging into 2 780 mixed belts. The two mixed belts get then smart split (overflow from this smart split is sent to a check container) back into pure copper and limestone and split - merged to simulate going through processing, finally going into sinks. If everything works as intended, the overflow ISC should be empty, pure copper/limestone ISCs should always have the same content ||these 2 need to be a bit full in order for them to feed the "mixed merge" properly by trying to push 480 out of each their output||. The miners should NOT back up. Up to now, the miners were slowly backing up...

-Simple mixed belt setup with no sink connection: 30 limestone + 30 copper mixing, then smart splitting and feeding a constructor and smelter respectively (connected to sinks). The smart splitter has NO sink connection, so if the merge ever fails to provide the 2 resources in a regular manner, one of the 2 should starve/back up. This has worked perfectly up to now (both machines have the minimum amount of items needed for production to continue in inventory)

I realize This could've made less of a text wall with some good screenshots... But oh well 😅

[fierce ruin]

i'm still trying to understand what did you test, and how these thing works based on the text description 🙂

[glacial hemlock]

So what is your conclusion? Also btw, 'reducer' means what?

In industry, reducer usually refers to the part which a bigger part connects to a smaller part

[frosty owl]

The kind of balancer that chokes a big belt onto a smaller one:
Eg: takes 780 in, outputs 600 by splitting it into mk4 and mk2 and merging those

Also, no real conclusion to be made yet, I think the system needs to run some more...
I guess my hypothesis atm is that mk5 belts can't deliver fully into a ISC on this save (which is contrary to what has been found so far AFAIK)

[glacial hemlock]

I see, that kinda make sense. You could make it clearer by mentioning '780 to 600 reducer'

@frosty owl you are late to the party. Mk5 always won't work at their maximum throughput

[frosty owl]

AFAIK they CAN deliver 780/min, the issue should come when trying to split it. So we came to the conclusion that feeding an ISC directly and using that to "split" should maintain the miner empty (tests by Wolfgrim showed a miner not backing up when feeding a sink directly)

[glacial hemlock]

A fully working mk5 belt means the game would have to update 13 times a second, not more, not less. Which sounds funny, right?

The rounding error would then quickly add up over a minute

[frosty owl]

Only screen I took so far is of the mixed belt test

[frosty owl]

Latest I heard, the issue ONLY came when splitting
#math-and-meta message

[fierce ruin]

i think you have a bit too much stuff at the same time to have a conclusive test: problems can occurs at many points, and it's hard to point out what is the limiting factor

[frosty owl]

All the tests setups I mentioned are independent of one another, if that's what you mean

I'm pretty confident they cannot influence one another in any unexpected way

[fierce ruin]

yes, but you have serveral part of split/merge in each one

[frosty owl]

I've yet to make proper screenshots to back this claim up though xD

[glacial hemlock]

You could try only split/merge once and feed the result to a sink or a throughput sensor (mod) to test it.

[frosty owl]

None make for a chokepoint (if they DID, there would be one more issue/bug to add to the list)

[frosty owl]

That is already being tested by Wolfgrim though? (Referring to his 13 splitters with pure node setup)

[fierce ruin]

well, at the very least, it makes things hard to read and understand. I will try some test on my own, because i think it's interesting.

[frosty owl]

The more, the marrier 🥳

I do the splitting to emulate how the resources would move if fed through a similar manifold or balancer. After all a test is good and all, but what I care the most about is: would this particular setup work as intended in my save?

Ie: I don't care A LOT wether a single belt can carry X or Y, I care more wether I can feed the entirety of a miner's output to a certain system

[oblique hollow]

Isnt a reducer just a compressor

Funny enough, even though mk 5 supposedly has limits, i can still feed my refineries that need exactly 780 bauxite

[silver flint]

Question, I'm looking for nuclear power information to max out my 3 uranium mines but I'm getting mixed info.

1 says I can run 252 powerplants, another says 90 powerplants on the wiki

[fierce ruin]

Well, with my first tests i'm not able to reproduce anything about this 780/min limitation yet (on a file where i have high fps, it may matter)

[fierce ruin]

252 is with all the possible uranium iirc (4 nodes at 250%, 2100 total).

and it also depend on the recipies you use

[silver flint]

4 nodes? I only find information on 3 index and found then in game

Is thatv252 plants overclocked or would that be the 90?

On the nuclear powerplant wiki it says 90 operating at peak, which I'm guessing overclocked

[fierce ruin]

90 overcloacked power plant is more or less the same as 180 power plant at 100%

where did you see the 90 calculation ?

it may be for plutonium (and i don't know how much plutonium power plant you can run)... no, plutonium should be higher

[silver flint]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Nuclear_Power_Plant

Says each node can support 30 plants at peak

If you look at uranium rods wiki it says theres enough uranium for 252 normal plants

[fierce ruin]

yes, that's without any alt recipy; you don't want that

90 without alt, 252 with the good alts

[silver flint]

Ah

I got all the alts

Just trying to get some good information so I can lay the foundation of the plants and work backwards.

Are the plants better clocked or no?

[fierce ruin]

with alts, it' should be 72 power plant / normal node (and 3 normal and an impure node)

overclocking a generator just help to limit the number of generator needed, and save space. That's not a lot.

[silver flint]

Oh where node 4? I only ping 3 around the center area

[fierce ruin]

last one is quite far (and high) north west.

[silver flint]

Ok thanks for the help because I was about to build way less

[frosty owl]

@bleak coral You might be interested: I've set up a belt taking 30 limestone and 30 copper, that then gets smart split into a constructor (underclocked) and a smelter. The system has been running at 100% for 3 game sessions already with no items stockpiling into the machines. The smart splitter doesn't have any connection to the sink

[sullen cloud]

Is that with MK I belts?

[frosty owl]

Yes

Is this still working fine?

[sullen cloud]

Btw, I wouldn’t use ISC as splitters as one output is preferred, ie outputs more than the second output

[frosty owl]

That is why I left 50ish items inside each: the 2 mk4 belts going out of the ISCs are both full, so each container is providing 390 to each exactly

[sullen cloud]

Are those miners backing up even if the succeeding two ISC are not 100% full?

[frosty owl]

I still have to test that better, I'll let you know when I check back again 👍

[sullen cloud]

Great

[topaz hedge]

I was referring to rose quartz/ cryatallize quartz found inside of rocks. super abundant, but mixed in with limestone, digging up sand is easier XD and It's all the same stuff; SiO2

[topaz hedge]

up to now, my two tests have just been simple miner -> manifold arrangement, at which point there was some delay/slowdown in the splitters in the manifold that would make the belt back up. if I used a smart splitter with an overflow feeding into an ISC, it slowly filled, but the miner didn't back up, without the overflow, the miner backed up.

In all this reading on various things, steel, quartz. maybe satisfactory needs an electric arc furnace lol

[north wyvern]

Finally!!

[small light]

whats the best recepie for radio control unit when overclocked

dont care about power or resourses to build the machines just witch one give you the a lot for a litle

[fierce ruin]

refer to https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production

[wind spade]

overclocking does not matter for resource efficiency, so it's best to just build everything at 100% OC (or less)

[chilly elm]

I used the one with quartz crystal , heatsink and high speed connector

[small light]

all i need i a recipes which one is the best

[chilly elm]

How many do you need

[chilly elm]

Depends on quantity you need

[small light]

idk like 10 - 25/min

[chilly elm]

This one should work fine

The only difficult part is high speed connector in this but youll need less than 75 of that so should be the best solution

[glacial hemlock]

!wikisearch Radio Control Unit

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=Radio Control Unit

[glacial hemlock]

@small light your answer is here.
https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Radio_Control_Unit#Alternate_recipes_analysis

[glacial hemlock]

that recipes seems to have no strength compared with the other two.

[small light]

im doing the last one

[chilly elm]

its the easiest i think for low quantity of rcu

im making 175 rcu using that🙃

[solar pond]

yes

[mystic moon]

Most drawn-out conversation ever.

[solar pond]

hi speed connectors costs to much gold for me

[sand garnet]

but there is no gold in the game

[solar pond]

caterium

its gold lol

[magic shadow]

caterium is basically gold

[sand garnet]

ADA used to laugh at you for thinking it was gold

also, the redesign of caterium ( before it got reverted again) looked a lot more like Pyrite

[topaz hedge]

the hsc rcu alt uses far less aluminum than the other two. it trades aluminum for caterium... The radio control system alt, (2nd one) second one trades quartz for aluminum.

of the 3.. if you were going to bulk make rcu... the one uses hsc seems to be the best. otherwise you'll find yourself dumping a significant amount of your aluminum into rcu's

[fierce ruin]

the connection one use way less aluminum, but way more quartz (that can be use to get more aluminum) and way more caterium; it's a trade that can be worth it or not, depnding on what you want to build outside of RCU. But just considering weighted points, the connection one isn't the best at all.

[quaint sage]

Does greeny's calc understand recycled recipes? https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=tCjNkWrtLzNa6a175eVE I can't see how it can be scaling up the recycles here given that the first production of rubber all goes to plastic. By my calculations it's 3 residual rubber 4 recycled rubber 10 recycled plastic refineries in 4 iterations.

Making 480 plastic with nothing available for the remaining 60 fuel.

[topaz hedge]

Considering weighted points, they all suck.

if you're just making them for whatever reason, any alt is fine. but if you're doing any kind of max build it's something you'll have to consider.

I used the second one and now I don't have enough aluminum left in my world to do what I wanted to (:

[fierce ruin]

the math from the calculator seems to works well, at first view. If you still get fuel in the end, that mean that you can put more recycled plastic/rubber to get more plastic; as the calculator did.

[topaz hedge]

it looks like it's using resduial rubber, so it's using less fuel to make rubber = more fuel for recycled plastic

[topaz hedge]

without resduial rubber or plastic https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=ETVhVbJPgwJeEOa2mLC2

[fierce ruin]

i think i see what is the problem: so you have 60 rubber from residual. So that goes in 2 recycled plastic, giving you 120/m. that goes into 4 recycled rubber, giving 240/m, that can feel 8 additionnal recycled plastic. giving you 480 plastic you considered, and you stopped here. But you can continue, as you have 60 fuel, you can build another recycled rubber at 66%, using 20 fuel and plastic to get 40 rubber , and 2 other recycled plastic at 66% each to use your last 40 fuel and rubber, giving you 80 more plastic. In the end that make the 540 plastic with the number on the calculator.

[quaint sage]

Aaah yes of course. Somehow it didn't occur to me that I didn't have to pass all the previous iteration forward

Yeah duh, I get it now. Thanks

[cold rock]

This is the basic balanced refinery setup I have in play from update3 that shows off pretty well what you can do with recycling optimization:

[simple mist]

is it common for people to make flow charts of production plans

[sand epoch]

more common for people to use the tools to do it for them 😛

[fierce ruin]

yes, the tools linked just above make a lot of the calculation needed, and give you a nice flowchart. Lot of people rely a lot on that to help them plan.

[cold rock]

I didn't until I'd already gotten to "endgame" (if there is such a thing) and wanted to start an optimized city type project.

And now I flowchart everything prior to building it.

[simple mist]

makes sense

[vague goblet]

this is actually really good and can help someone in case they need to start production on all of those items and are a bit clueless

[icy zinc]

say I needed to produce 20 iron rods a minute, would it be best to have two constructors each underclocked to produce 10 per minute, or should I have one producing 15 and the other 5?

or does it matter?

[glacial hemlock]

Yes it does. The first option uses less power

[bronze silo]

hey guys, how many fuel generators can be fed from a pure overclocked well?

I have mk2 pipes

[boreal cypress]

depends on alternate

and turbo/not turbo

with complete normal recipe you can get 400 fuel / 33.333 Fuel gens out of 600 crude oil

[bronze silo]

wow

thats a lot more than I expected, lol

I will reserve a lil for Packaged Fuel

[boreal cypress]

with alternates you can get 1600 fuel out of 600

[bronze silo]

nice

those alternates really make a diffference 🙂

[boreal cypress]

and with turbofuel (best alternate) you can get almost 300 Fuel gens :)

so 300 Fuelgens are 45GW @bronze silo xD

[bleak coral]

HOR > Diluted fuel is crazy efficient, anything coming from that uses very little oil

[bronze silo]

more than enough, lol

[bleak coral]

It's anything that uses petrocoke that can't be as efficient, cause you can't get it from diluted fuel

[bronze silo]

I've heard various streamers complain about having to stop things that rely on petrocoke

[boreal cypress]

I never used that xD

you dont need coke for anything like screws :P

just get alternates. thats what I did when I stream Satisfactory :D
I rebuild whole Oil factory so I produce 7200 rubber/plastic out of 2700 crude oil ^^

[bronze silo]

and what do you use all the rubber and plastic for @boreal cypress ?

[glacial hemlock]

You are missing 900 rubber or plastic

[wind spade]

Your problem is that you're using maximise, which doesn't optimise for raw resources. Try switching to items/min

[quaint sage]

That was the intention, I wanted to check that what I'd come up with was maximal, the calculator told me it wasn't but I couldn't see how it had improved because I'd missed a possible step and not realised. All good now, thanks

[topaz hedge]

I've got the same issue going on on mine, I more or less built my setup to not pull 300/600 oil though, that little bit of loss adds up pretty quick over 10 nodes or so.

[cold rock]

Thank you! I'd be happy to alter and repost for people trying to maximize based on inputs!

A lot has changed now that we have mk2 pipes and recipe changes and new t7 and t8

[boreal cypress]

oh jeah, forget to count it in from the resin xD

[boreal cypress]

its for endgame stuff. Dont know how much I will need in the end xD

[oblique hollow]

computers use a lot

[boreal cypress]

I will use crystal comps

[glacial hemlock]

Crystal go brrrrrr

[frosty owl]

Imma be honest... I MIGHT try the "non sink sushi belt" idea by Providence for my nuclear factory 😏

Should I "risk" it? 😏

[oblique hollow]

based on what i saw from some recipes in code and a few assumptions...... Satisfactory actually has a flow rate maximum of 600000 L/min

and the Liter is the actual unit here

it just all gets divided by 1000 in recipes and pipelines

thats why machines need "4000" units of fluid or whatever for recipes

[bronze silo]

cool

good to know @oblique hollow

[sullen cloud]

4000 as a minimum requirement? Or what do you mean?

[frosty owl]

Many machines want 3/4 m^3 of fluid before they start a production cycle (=3/4000 liters)

[sullen cloud]

That’s indeed valuable to know

[frosty owl]

It is said so in their interface whenever you select a recipe (eg: need 3 oil to make 2 plastic, where 3 is the min needed in the machine's inventory to start)

[sullen cloud]

Yeah, that’s logical. But I have stopped noticing these lines some 1000 hours ago 😆

[oblique hollow]

a machine that asks for 4 m³ of fluid actually wants 4000 units of fluid

aka 4000 L

and a flow rate of 300 is actually 300000

[tiny sable]

Is there any way to bump down the cost or deal with that extra heavy oil residue that I missed?

[oblique hollow]

yea, bad recipe. polymer resin

why not just use oil to plastic

alternatively you can just turn it into fuel

the best way to make coke and rubber / plastic is still
HOR alt -> fuel -> recycled rubber / plastic

[bleak coral]

are you using maximize? take that number and switch back to items/min

maximize can do some weird stuff, cause it just finds the most items and then stops as soon as it has that

you may have to lower the decimal a bit to get it to work to account for any rounding

[tiny sable]

Nah I set the number manually for 600 aluminium casing/minute and I'll be using the recycled rubber/plastic method

Thanks

[topaz hedge]

Use better alts. Look at or for steamed copper sheets, caterium circuitboard, and caterium computer.

[bleak coral]

I think the only time the polymer resin alt makes sense is if you're trying to make fabric for filters, and even then you may be able to get away with just siphoning off some polymer resin from another system that's not being used, like a turbofuel system or something

[topaz hedge]

Insulated crystal osc is nice too, although it's a bit caterium and rubber heavy

[oblique hollow]

polymer is only good if you dont have the HOR alt

cause then you just use recycled with the fuel made from the hor byproduct

it reaches an oil to plastic / rubber efficiency of 1,75 plastic and rubber per m³ of oil

compared to 3 with HOR alt

[bleak coral]

oh sure for plastic/rubber polymer is bad, I was just thinking of fabric which is the only thing that needs to be made out of polymer, but even then you don't need to make that much so you probably don't need to have a dedicated system making its polymer resin you can just mooch off another that has some leftover

[oblique hollow]

fabric is pretty much a byproduct of a large turbofuel setup

since you always have resin coming out somewhere

[topaz hedge]

Resin is garbage. So is fabric. Just cheif inhailers no need for gas mask or rad suit

[oblique hollow]

they could use a buff to their usage

[bleak coral]

what about parachutes

[topaz hedge]

Guess you got me there

[oblique hollow]

tbh, one usage great for resin would be "Adhesive"

skip using rubber, just use the resin itself xd

[bleak coral]

but seriously, another item that needs polymer resin or another use for fabric is probably the only way to make the polymer resin alt useful, cause I think the polymer resin recipes for plastic/rubber are fine as they are (just ways to make use of some byproduct)

and polymer resin alt isn't bad, there just isn't much to do with the resin

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, I was kind of surprised they didn't add anything for resin with u4. I kinda feel like it was ment to be like nuclear waste with it's one fabric alt.

Besides that little extra plastic/ rubber/fabric you get out of it for personal use

[oblique hollow]

aaaaalll these possible usages

who knows, maybe we get carbon fibers

polymer resin is a carbon product anyway

soooo maybe something in the blender

[tardy moth]

what could carbon fibers be used for?

armor maybe?

[bleak coral]

that crab boss does look tough

[oblique hollow]

stronger than steel but lighter than aluminum

tier 9 variant of aluminum?

[tardy moth]

oooohhh

[oblique hollow]

wait what, a patch dropped?

YEAAAAAH

[sand garnet]

oh

[oblique hollow]

PIRATE HERE WE GOOOOO

[bleak coral]

oh the language, I thought you were talking about that suspicious dude who dropped in here just to ask what the latest version was lol

[oblique hollow]

yes the language

i put a lot of effort into it in the last 2 weeks

[plucky isle]

What's the most efficient Fuel Generator Power Plant out there right now? This is what I came up with on my own, but I'm sure there are better ones out there. This is to tap the four oil nodes (2 pure, 2 normal) on the west side of the map

[fierce ruin]

from what i see that's the best setup

(assuming you want just fuel and not turbofuel)

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=gzK33PeF454aB9dylFK7

[wind spade]

assuming those 4 nodes are 1800 oil, it's 60 refineries, 48 blenders and 400 fuel gens

[fierce ruin]

60GW 54.6 net GW

[wind spade]

not sure why you have 160 fuel gens in that page, seems like that's wrong

[fierce ruin]

that should be around 400 iirc

4800/12

12 being the burnrate

[plucky isle]

I overclocked the generators... I thought there was no downside to overclocking generators. Am I wrong?

[wind spade]

well you'll definitely not get only 160 gens

[wind spade]

you'd need 197.675256617 gens if you overclocked them at 250%

[fierce ruin]

pulls out calc

[plucky isle]

Okay. Must be a bug with the tool then.

[fierce ruin]

160*2,5=400 needed; but at 250% OC you are at just around 200% more prod (that's not linear)

[wind spade]

downside to overclocking gens is that you're not getting full 250% increase

[fierce ruin]

so should be somewhere around 200 gen at 250% OC

[plucky isle]

Gotcha. Yes, okay, that makes sense.

[fierce ruin]

and that's a lot to OC, considering it only save some space

[wind spade]

check out https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/codex/buildings/fuel-generator and play with the OC slider to see how it affects stuff

[fierce ruin]

and slight rounding error

[wind spade]

it's not a big disadvantage, you're still getting same amount of power per unit of fuel

but you lose those nice numbers 🤷

for estimations you can use 250% OC = 200% speed increase

but it's slightly more than that (around 202.3%)

[wind spade]

what's the tool btw? I've seen it before and I think I've talked with it's author, so I can report the bug to them

[plucky isle]

I'm on Github too. I can submit it 🙂

[wind spade]

well I meant through Discord 🤷

[plucky isle]

https://zechy.cz/satisfactory/#/manager

[fierce ruin]

well the equation is provided on the wiki

where x = % clocking
g(x) = operating speed

*only applies to power production buildings not including NPPs

for NPP it's the same form; but with another number instead of 1.3

to make the 250% OC really close to 200% prod

[wind spade]

yeah, better version of the equation would be replacing 1.3 with y, where y is the power overclocking exponent of a given building

[subtle elk]

i did some math for turbo motors and i figured out that with the best alternate recipes and making the most of all materials you need 5200 nitrogen 8268 water 3861 copper 3965 iron 1134 caterium 5700 bauxite 4331 limestone 3060 quartz 1827 oil for 100 turbo motors per minute this took me 2 hours to figure out so hopefully my game does not crash by the time i get to 100 turbo motors

[glacial hemlock]

Do you mean this? https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Turbo_Motor#Alternate_recipes_analysis

[subtle elk]

ya but i didnt know it existed so i wasted 2h of my life at least it was in school

wait no i used a different recipe

[gray flower]

Quick question should i make 40 foundrys and one underclock or not

[bleak coral]

as opposed to underclocking them all? depends on how up to you're feeling about copy-pasting to 40 machines, cause all underclock is better than just one underclock power-wise, but it's not a huge difference

[glacial hemlock]

The effect diminishes as the number of building increases

[wind spade]

Here's my take on your issue, saving some quartz and not using nitrogen at all with the cost of using a few more of the other resources (which are arguably less rare). https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=FdTwrbmHQzZmNRGZMKTl

[subtle elk]

thanks ill use that and ill use that website from now on its a good thing i didn't start the production chain i guess

[halcyon coral]

What's that website that everyone uses to get the map pictures?

[fierce ruin]

SCIM

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map

[halcyon coral]

Cheers

[shell torrent]

How many fully clocked coal generators can a fully clocked water extractor power? I can get 3 coal gens to be fully powered but I'm not sure whether I'm building the pipelines properly to get a 4th coal gen because the 4th always has no water.

[fierce ruin]

each coal gen uses 45m^3/min

[sand garnet]

300/45

[shell torrent]

So mine would be 300/91=273
that's 3 coal generators on one water extractor.

[fierce ruin]

clocking gens oof

[shell torrent]

I have to, only on tier 1 elevator

Don't have geothermal gens yet

[sand garnet]

just build more

[fierce ruin]

clocking gens is fickle business they have power curves on logs

[sand garnet]

also, lolwut? geothermal gens are not the next step

[shell torrent]

oh. I'm gonna go research more..

[supple belfry]

I would recommend just using a 3:8 ratio of extractors to coal generators. Keep it simple, and don't necessarily overdo it--you'll have fuel generators soon enough, and coal will quickly feel obsolete.

[frosty owl]

@topaz hedge @oblique hollow Continuing my sporadic testing I noticed this (for a miner extracting 780/min):
ISC A, put directly after the miner (1 mk5 belt segment), is able to empty the miner out.
But ISC A slowly backs up trying to feed ISC B (5/6 belt segments away, about 250m). ISC B is connected to sinks, and slowly emptying out from the initial 100 items I left in there

[oblique hollow]

so ISC is at fault

wouldnt surprise me, snutt said on stream that the 2 outputs cause issues

even if you use just 1 too maybe?

[frosty owl]

I think it's the belt

There's a detail that I should add: other 2 miners I have (both 780/min) are connected by over 150m of belt to ISCs (which are connected to sinks)
The miners back up...

[topaz hedge]

damn

I'm assuming you have a manifold with splitters like on my test?

[frosty owl]

Yeah, 480+120+120+60

• an overflow storage after the 60

Just in case

[topaz hedge]

to fuse my quickwire or to not fuse my quickwire

So, isc's with both outputs didn't give you the full 480 either? :/

err 780*

[frosty owl]

Now, I'm outputting with a single mk5 atm

[frosty owl]

Why not fuse it? Lack copper?

[topaz hedge]

effort lol.

I should have enough copper for my second, new 72 reactor plant regardless if I fuse it or not lol

it really just came down to 30 refineries, or 32 refineries and extra effort.. least amount of effort won lol

it's 12 refineries with OC lol but. that's besides the point lol

[frosty owl]

Meanwhile, I'm thinking I can fit the refining for a whole pure copper node on top of my nuclear factory
... For fused quickwire ofc 😆

Oh no wait, 2 copper nodes!

[topaz hedge]

at 600 a min?

that's alot of refineries. big space lol

you're doing a 14.4 rods/min setup too?

[frosty owl]

Nope the fearsome 780 😱
52 refineries per node, they fit in 2 rows on top of the roof... Though I'll have to make it 2 tiles wider 😅

Ah, it's a 50.4 rods/min setup

[topaz hedge]

damn, I saw some posts about you starting a nuclear setup. I thought it was 14.4 for some reason

[cold rock]

posting this for another channel as a demo

out of context: I'm not endorsing these as efficient plans, just plans you can make cleanly and examples of things one does as they grow in this game

[glacial hemlock]

Be sure to unlock pure ingot if you meet those recipes.

[cold rock]

part of the context from the other channel that caused me to post these here was that I produced all those casted screws for absolutely nothing

wait i can still make C O M P U T E R S

j/k caterium computers are still better

[frosty owl]

How did you get that number? 😆

[dense dune]

Trying to detect if a line is flowing and either turn a light red or green depending. Made this schematic. Before I try to implement it, do you guys think it would work? (Using the train stations as a priority merger)

[oblique hollow]

oh you madlad. belt logic circuits?

you know, it would have been nicer if you didnt share this as a tiny ass file

makes reading hard xd

it seems really excessive for an unknown purpose

[dense dune]

Yeah, sorry about the size, I drew it on paint and that's just how it came out.

[oblique hollow]

ya could have zoomed in and made a screenshot

like this

[dense dune]

Thats a good idea actually

[oblique hollow]

what exactly do you gain from this

because i see no benefit

[dense dune]

Just a little indicator light that tells me if the belt is running, sort of to let me know if somethings wrong. But mostly I just want to see if I can do it.

[oblique hollow]

might aswell do it like this. if the last lamp turns off: coal is there, but not enough for everything.

if first lamp turns off: insufficient coal for everything

underclock the first and last gen to reduce coal usage

[dense dune]

That's not as fun though 😆, and my system (detectes a non-coal resource, like ingots or something.)

Although that probably would be more effective

[oblique hollow]

btw what do you mean "train station as priority merge"

they dont priority merge

[dense dune]

Its an idea of mine as there is no priority merge in the game, you load at station A, then B and then unload at C. If the freight car is full from A then B will be unable to load anything.

[oblique hollow]

thats so over the top and slow LOL.

the best priority merger i found was a merger array

you get like 99% of resource A and only 1 % of resource B

right 2 belts are the input

and left belt is output

[dense dune]

Thanks, I cant really have any from b though, as even 1 would cause the light to flip.

[wind spade]

best priority merger with 100% efficiency is a train

[oblique hollow]

i hate that so much lol

[wind spade]

it's true tho

three stations, load, load, unload

[oblique hollow]

i still hate it, 200 something MW for that

[wind spade]

first station is the priority input, second is secondary input, third is output

[wind spade]

well what do you need priority merger for anyway?

[oblique hollow]

nothing lol

but if, id rather use the small 99% efficient one

[wind spade]

🤷

[dense dune]

Don't get me wrong, using trains is not my ideal method. I wish they would just implement them...

[oblique hollow]

the usage cases for priority mergers are still so little , you dont even need your entire hand to count them all

1. funky logic (which would get replaced by actual logic systems, someday)
2. thats it

[dense dune]

3. Mergeing conveyor belts in a lossless way. Imagine you have two belts A and B. B has a splitter on it. After the splitter you could merge A into B without loosing any of the resources on B. This is more important in big factories, and would be particularly important later if they add a second output on mk 3 miners to avoid the problem with conveyor capacity.

[oblique hollow]

if they dont merge correctly then you are exceeding the output belt capacity

[dense dune]

thats right, wich is why you need a priority merger to avoid that

[oblique hollow]

no, you need to readjust your numbers

this is stuff to make a compressor, right?

[dense dune]

4. you want to drop stuff into an awsome sink or somthing, but want to give priority to higher value items to and dont want to waste power on a sink just for iron ore

[oblique hollow]

to compress belts down to 1, right?

[oblique hollow]

??? i never heard of such a case where you have no way to avoid that

just, dont put the iron in the sink

in that case, your machines will back up. oh well

its not like that will kill anything

priority mergers dont resolve the issue of belt capacity

if you have A and B, and it prefers B, then A will just back up

congrats, that just shifted the issue elsewhere

[dense dune]

I mean like this.

[oblique hollow]

ok, what belt speeds do we have here?

all the same?

i assume the goal here is to get the blue-yellow belt back to max capacity?

[dense dune]

all the same, the purpose is to ensure B always has stuff in it. If you use a normal merger then you risk exceeding the capacity of the belt.

[oblique hollow]

and what do you think the priority merger would do? One of those lines will still back up

[dense dune]

And sure, you could just not sync iron, and use slower belts and spend a few extra hours doing math for a large factory and making a conveyer mess. But the same arguments could be made for against the priority splitter.

[oblique hollow]

is this what you meant? keep B full?

[dense dune]

the point of that output is for the resource to be consumed.

[oblique hollow]

oh, prioritize the top and excess goes out the bottom

??? this can we solved with smart splitters

[dense dune]

that second set of splitters is an accedent

[oblique hollow]

i keep on making assumptions here because i cannot read your mind and intention

i do not know exactly what the goal is for each output

it would be easier if you gave each output belt a number and then explained what each one should do

[dense dune]

So for instance you could do something like this, (the coal gen is just to represnt it been consumed) there may be 10 or so left over as the 780 does not split nicely between them. so the priority merger allows that to move on without been lost.

[oblique hollow]

merge B into A at the end and then lead that back to the machines

not the other way around

B will get prioritized if it has very little left over

[dense dune]

This is just an example, you could have more than just 2 conveyors doing this. It just keeps things neat and simple. There will always be a workaround, but thats not the point. The point of them is to make things simpler.

[oblique hollow]

youre supposed to match the numbers though, not just flood lines and then hope for the best

at no point in the game do you have no clue how much you are producing

[dense dune]

and you still run at a loss doing that anway. The real workaround is to make the part between them a slower conveyor. But then you need to make sure your math is right and when its not you need to try and work out where you went wrong.

[oblique hollow]

A will back up anyway

even with priority merger

its unavoidable

[dense dune]

I dont see how that even possible, A only has outputs. It couldn't back up even if it wanted to

[oblique hollow]

the merger will make it back up

because both sides have equal input priority

if B is slower than(with numbers, not belt speed) A, A will be backing up

its the merger rule

[dense dune]

I assume you mean this bit. So yes that will back up, and thats kind of the point

[oblique hollow]

example: mk 5 belts used
A is full
if B is transporting less than (780/2) items per minute, it gets prioritized.

this is a hidden merger behaviour

i am using my picture here

A: 780 / min
Output of Merger: MK 5 belt
If OF is less than or equal to 390, it gets prioritized and A will back up

this is normal merger behaviour

has to do with the internal rule of "impartial preference"

both inputs have 50% priority, but if you are slower than 50% of the output, you kinda have absolute priority

i tested this a few months back

this is how i then constructed that merger array

and how i got a 99% efficient priority merger

[dense dune]

yes, if you do that you will back up A, But thats the point of the priority merger. It avoids A getting backed up allowing you to meger into a belt where you are faster than 50% of the output.

[oblique hollow]

If you dont want B to back up then A HAS to back up

unless you dont want A to back up instead

one of them has to nontheless

its not avoidable, even with priority mergers

[calm gale]

dumb question (also wrong chat ik) but speaking of mergers if i take 2 coal veins and run them to 1 line will that mess anything up or?

[oblique hollow]

depends, what speed?

[calm gale]

mk3 maybe

[wind spade]

depends on belts used, miner mk, overclocking, node purity

[calm gale]

mk3 belts nodes idk cause reasons miner mk1 possibly

[dense dune]

It depends what purity the ore is.

and how many shards you have in the miners

[calm gale]

assuming both nodes are the same id assume pure nodes

[oblique hollow]

if ( Belt 1 + belt 2) is slower or equal to 270 items / min, then the merger output will not back up

[calm gale]

0 shards

[dense dune]

if the sum of there outputs are less than the belts capacity then go for it

As a rule of thumb I would normally keep pure lines seperate, as they normally occupy and entire belt.

[calm gale]

ok cause im trying to backstuff on coal (i will eventually from 1 node) but idk if it will keep up with 3 coal gens and a foundry

[oblique hollow]

then you better do some math

go and see how much each consumes

and how much the miners output

[calm gale]

the 1 node is 120 per min according to the mk1 miner

[oblique hollow]

well, and the other?

[calm gale]

idk yet i havent placed it cause was wondering if it might break things lol

[oblique hollow]

then go and see how fast it would be lol

[calm gale]

ok

[calm gale]

btw both nodes are pure if that matters

[oblique hollow]

yep, that means the other should too be 120

120 + 120 is less than mk 3 speed, so you should be good to merge them

[subtle elk]

i was looking back on fuel because i realized that i needed power to jumpstart nuclear and i realized how op the diluted fuel recipe i mean i knew it was good but not this good

[oblique hollow]

you double output by just adding water so yeah, pretty strong

[bleak coral]

combined with the HOR alt and recycled recipes and it just breaks oil efficiency in exchange for more complexity

hell the HOR alt doesn't even increase complexity, just is better for diluted fuel

[calm gale]

btw i upped the miner to a Mk2 since both nodes were pure so its now making 240 per minute

[oblique hollow]

one or both?

[calm gale]

1

since 2 mk1s would of done the same

[oblique hollow]

then you now have more than one mk 3 can handle

wait, did you remove one miner?

cuz if so then forget what i said

[frosty owl]

Legend: Green circle = No backing up
Red circle = Items are stacking in that machine/container

Miners are all pure outputting 780/min.
The 2 miners merging are clocked at 300 and 480. The one at 480 is slowly backing up (uses a mk5 to unload, not mk4)

[oblique hollow]

ah, the fabled Vencam Belt Lab ™️ test results

[topaz hedge]

Looks consistent with what I had seen in my tests

I do see a miner feeding into an isc with double outputs and the miners backing up.. that's no good

[topaz hedge]

@gleaming belfry steel coated plates are tasty

vs

and I think this is the most iron/coal efficient way to make hmf

[fierce ruin]

if you want to push for iron/coal efficiency; pure iron ingot would be better (or iron alloy ingot). The rest are less weighted point intensive recipies, as far as i know.

[gleaming belfry]

Thanks @topaz hedge I’m not aiming for efficient. Compact/fast/clean

[topaz hedge]

pure iron does nothing for coal lol

[gleaming belfry]

But sometimes I reverse out and go large and efficient

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, the one I posted with bolted is my favorite

[fierce ruin]

you said iron/coal, pure iron does something for iron, so it matters, no ?

[topaz hedge]

iron&coal. since the only input is steel, iron=coal my mistake.

[gleaming belfry]

Bolted is goood. Iron screw is a lifesaver

Or steel screw I mean

Realized yesterday that none of my iron bat machines were on, guess I am at endgame without making iron bar anywhere?

[topaz hedge]

and only using ~1000 more steel for 60 hmf vs adhered and standard mod frames... it's worth in my opinion

[gleaming belfry]

What steel recipe you using?

[topaz hedge]

actually not even 1000...

[gleaming belfry]

I’m on coke steel I think

[topaz hedge]

I use solid steel. iron ingots and coal

screwless hmf uses 400 less steel for 60 hmf vs bolted, and no rubbers needed. I think that's a win.

coke steel is okay, it's good if you don't have any coal nearby.

[calm gale]

i only had 1 to begin with

[orchid lark]

can anyone explain me. 60 ore per minute halved 2 times give 15 to each generator.i checked the wiki and 15 coal is required then how i am generating excess coal

coal is getting capped at the generators and eventually at the miners

[oblique hollow]

send a picture of your splitters

actually

[orchid lark]

its a spaghetti

[oblique hollow]

send a picture of the entire setup

[orchid lark]

but the genrators work

[oblique hollow]

i dont care if its spaghetti

[orchid lark]

ok wait

red dots signify the splitter spliting 60 node coal to 30

black and white signify 15 15 split to the generator

[fierce ruin]

if you don't have another pipe feeding them water, they will have 300water/min max, and need 360 to work all the time. Without enough water they stop and coal stack up.

[orchid lark]

water isnt a problem

all generators are filled with water

and the generators are not stopping even for a sec

my consumption stays at 8.5 and frequently jumps to 28.4

btw 2 water pumps are also connected to the system and i am not underclocking or overclocking anything

[sand garnet]

you need 3 water extractors

[orchid lark]

i have 3 water extractors

[sand garnet]

you just said 2

[orchid lark]

i followed a tutorial

water pumps

2 water pumps 3 extractors

[sand garnet]

just pumps

not water pumps lol

[orchid lark]

pipeline pumps mk1

[sand garnet]

yeah alright

[orchid lark]

my bad i am a biggner

lol

[sand garnet]

can you show your extractors

how they connect to the pipes

[orchid lark]

yup wait a sec

[sand garnet]

for reference:

#old-questions-and-help message

here you go, build any of these setups and just hook up 120 coal to the whole thing per setup in any way you want and you're good to go.
these setups provide 600MW each, do not use any power shards and are easy to set up

[orchid lark]

2 water pumps connected to a single pipe with a help of a pump mk1 goes the whole length of all the generators and then another pump joins the train at the third last generator

my setup also provides 600 mw

[sand garnet]

specifically, look at the piping and how the extractors are connected to pipes

[orchid lark]

i might be wrong but i dont think water is an issue as my generators are constantly supplying 600 mw for 2 ingame days straight. i think the prob is with coal

[oblique hollow]

its still a WIP but i think this page gets pipe flow across quite nicely

[sand garnet]

water might still be an issue if your piping sucks

[orchid lark]

this is really good thanks

[orchid lark]

but 2 ingame days and my power production didnt flick so i think my water is alright

[sand garnet]

ah you dont have power issues?

[oblique hollow]

its coal issues

the coal is too much

theres 60 going in but it backs up

according to ayush

[orchid lark]

yup

[sand garnet]

can you show the power pole UI

[orchid lark]

sure

[sand garnet]

if capacity fluctuates you're not feeding stuff
if capacity is stable but less than you expect, a machine is not hooked up

[sand garnet]

looks fine to me

[orchid lark]

the capacity is not fluctuating

[sand garnet]

could just mean that your miner started producing before the gens were on, so the internal buffer of the miner was shoving stuff out before the gens were asking for it causing it to eventually clog

[orchid lark]

i dont have any problems with the system but if i could know where is the exrtra coal is coming so that i could use that in other stuff

[orchid lark]

i removed the clog. i mean i have taken stacks of coal from all generators

but eventually it clogs up

even the water clogs up

[fierce ruin]

from the picture you send, you seem to have a coal backup only on one side (the 4 closest gen seem fine), right ?

[orchid lark]

i checked the extractor and it is full

[orchid lark]

i have 2 miners and the coal is coming from 2 sides

[fierce ruin]

yes, but just one side seems problematic

[orchid lark]

1 covering the right 4 and the other covering the left 4 gen

[orchid lark]

which one

black or the white

[fierce ruin]

for white side, your conveyor to gens aren't full, so it shouldn't be a problem

for the black side, i can't really see a lot

[orchid lark]

i think its enough work. it is working well which matters the most and looks like i can come back here to get some coal if i need instead of thinking of automation

[stiff horizon]

Are there any other pictures like this? If yes could you dm them to me? I'm still learning stuff

[oblique hollow]

there are buuut im still working on them c:

buuut check the pins of this channel!

theres a link to a reddit post by me

with similar pictures

[subtle elk]

how many canisters should i use to jump start my system of 60 packagers (p.s im not load balancing)

[oblique hollow]

for what?

transporting fluid somewhere?

fill it with enough so the machines never stay idle

[subtle elk]

ok it is for power so everything is central

nvm it was a dumb question

[oblique hollow]

just fill it with an entire container load of canisters

[subtle elk]

k

[oblique hollow]

and if too many come back, remove them

[stiff horizon]

Thank you!

[signal nimbus]

On a meta level, does it make sense to turn all the oil in the world into heavy oil residue, then all of that into fuel? I feel like that starts every recipe.

Well... it's the input to the efficient plastic/rubber recipes, and can be used for power until nuclear happens.

[fierce ruin]

petroleum coke can also be used in some alts, so it might be worth saving a bit oil for that. But oil->HOR->fuel works well for almost everything

[subtle elk]

i guess in my opinion it depends if they change oil later it would be really bad and you wouldn't have any oil to use for new recipes. but if you're fine with haveing to update your oil then its ok i guess also i agree with muetdhiver.

[oblique hollow]

its simply the way the meta rolls. anything is better than oil to fuel

its sooooo inefficient

[signal nimbus]

Gotcha... so is there any notably good alt recipe that might be worth making petroleum coke for?

Not coke steel.

[fierce ruin]

electrode aluminum scrap, or turbofuel can use petroleum coke

[signal nimbus]

now looking at electrode aluminum scrap

[oblique hollow]

turbo blend .....be good

else......

not that many recipes

[subtle elk]

why is your name piping expert?

[oblique hollow]

guess lol

[signal nimbus]

He... really is.

[oblique hollow]

some call me Pipe Magician

[subtle elk]

i was just wondering if it was like a oh im a piping expert lol. or a
REALLY GOOD AT THIS kind of thing

[oblique hollow]

some consider me the single most extensive resource on piping. ever

because nobody else seems to understand them as well as i do

[subtle elk]

lol they call me hey ur efficient but ur base sucks

[oblique hollow]

i wrote the more detailed info on the wiki and i made those Pipe infographs

im also currently writing a Piping Manual

[subtle elk]

oh cool ill check that out

[oblique hollow]

its in the pins, the infograph

[subtle elk]

ok

im not that good at pipes i mainly played in update 2 but got back into satisfactory at the end of update 3. so i guess im nuclear man

i have update my name

[signal nimbus]

...how are you good at nuclear, but not pipes?

[subtle elk]

update 2

there was no pipes

[signal nimbus]

So... did you hear that nuclear today requires 300 water per gen?

[subtle elk]

yes

i also know about plutonium

[signal nimbus]

K. Did you... make a recent nuclear setup?

[subtle elk]

ya

[signal nimbus]

Okay. Just checking creds.

[subtle elk]

im making a fuel plant to jumpstart it right now