math-and-meta

[mortal timber]

Well then I made a drawing of your idea.

Your welcome

[high wave]

lol

[frosty owl]

At least it's a comprehensive drawing, the first ones... Eh 😅

[high wave]

nah my drawing was the best

[mortal timber]

Its better than the first ones.

NO

[high wave]

i put hours into that artwork

[mortal timber]

I took days on mine. Beat that.

[high wave]

when i said hours i meant 24000 hours

i spent years on that drawing

[mortal timber]

LIES

YOUR TIME ON THAT DRAWING CANNOT DEFEAT MY 200 HOURS IN SATISFACTORY

[high wave]

but as i was saying, i have plans for good locations to decentralize basic production

[mortal timber]

jk

[high wave]

im going to have 4 locations, with the 4th being much smaller

basically dividing the map into thirds and then the 4th area is in the direct center of the map

top left, top right and bottom middle

[mortal timber]

yeah, like I said mine wasnt the actual plan, just a demonstration.

[high wave]

yea

[glacial hemlock]

i am against the idea of putting uranium storage right beside the power plant

[mystic moon]

Do you mean waste storage?

[wind spade]

it's already radioactive there, why not put the storage there as well 🤷

[shy mason]

You can turn off the uranium mine feed or trains, and eventually have it empty of radioactivity. Your waste storage is going to be there forever, so can't use jetpack or hover pack to make adjustments.

[high wave]

yea for waste storage ima just set myself up for 4000 hours and then hope i lose intrest before then

[glacial hemlock]

Maybe u5 will be out before you reach the 4k mark

[high wave]

i doubt u5 will do anything with plutonium

unless thats confirmed and i live under a rock

[frosty owl]

If you balance your fuel rods, you can actually survive ~10/15 minutes without a hazmat suit in a nuclear powerplant ;)
That's quite convenient since it means you can still go around there with jetpac or hoverpack

[wind spade]

that still gives you no reason to go near your powerplant 😛

[frosty owl]

-Need to expand it
-Need to turn something on/off
-Fix your mistakes

Being able to build stuff with hoverpack vs with the hazmat suit changes a lot the convenince

[glacial hemlock]

Balancing the input of fuel rods prevents the 100 hour of starting time, since power plants now always at 100% it is extremely lengthy to let the manifold fills up.

Balancing holds true for nuclear plants even before u4

[wind spade]

that assumes you need all the power from your nuclear plants

which you usually don't, so you can get away with a manifold

[loud heron]

I wish they'd add a master control terminal that lets you toggle on and off the machines from a single point.

Would help to stabilize a new power plant

[wind spade]

isn't that ficsit networks mod?

[magic shadow]

not currently functional but yes

[fierce ruin]

remote factory mod?

[plucky isle]

Hey math geniuses! What's 5+5-5-5

Most of you smart people will say -5. Satisfactory disagrees.

[fierce ruin]

Lmao 😂

[teal wadi]

Trying to get a handle on liquid handling, could use some help confirming my throughput/setup
2x impure oil nodes = 120/m crude
1x 250% normal oil node = 300/m crude
Feeding 14 refineries (420 crude input) on a manifold, 7 per side with pipes down the middle
right now I have the normal node going straight in, and the 2 lesser nodes wrapping around to input on the far side. Its janky but it works.
Main question is if I use a mk 2 pipe, can I just merge it all into one pipe and run that straight through?

[frosty owl]

Yep, just as you planned

[mystic moon]

!wikisearch plastic

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=plastic

[teal wadi]

not near water and dont have the alt recipes yet :^) but yeah i'll move to that setup eventually

[frosty owl]

Note: feeding 300 or 600/min to a manifold can often produce losses!
Eg: If you were to have losses on the first part of them manifold due to the 300 pipe, you could have "fixed" it quickly by having the 300/min line split and merge with the 2 60/min lines. The system would balance itself out and no losses would occur (same goes for 600/min similar examples)

Note 2: losses don't occur just due to througput, it's the splitting in the manifold that produces losses. Splitting a 600/min pipe in 2 300/min buffers to feed the manifold usually is the quickest fix for this kind of issue with mk2

[wind spade]

the calculator calculates from right, not from left

so unfortunately it's not really useful except for simple math

[frosty owl]

I think the calculator iterprets that as: (5+5) - (5-5)
It usually makes additions first, subtractions second (and the latters in a weird order)
Btw... 5+5-5-5 = 0, not -5

[plucky isle]

I thought that too at first, but @wind spade is right. Using the logic of additions first, you would expect 3 + 3 - 3 - 6 to be -3, but it evaluates to 9

[plucky isle]

Because it's evaluating right to left. 3-6 = -3. 3-(-3) = 6. 3 + 6 = 9

[frosty owl]

So what's the result of 5+5-10+10 in your prediction?

[plucky isle]

-10

5 + 5 - 20
5 - 15 (or more accurately 5 + (-15)

[frosty owl]

Same for me... But I still think it does (5+5) - (10+10)
Or, in your example, (3+3) - (3-6)

I've used the calculator quite a while without parenthesis

[plucky isle]

I thought the same thing as you. Then my friend found one equation that caused that theory to fail. One sec and I'll find it.

[wind spade]

it does from right to left

[frosty owl]

Isn't that the opposite of what you said here or am I misunderstanding? o.O

[plucky isle]

You're misunderstanding. It does the right-most equation first.

[frosty owl]

No, my brain is fried, apparently (or did you edit by switching left-right? xD)

[plucky isle]

It does BEDMAS (or PEMDAS or however you learned it) but it does it from right to left, not left to right.

[wind spade]

yeah I mistyped it initially

so I edited it

[frosty owl]

Never heard about BEDMAS... I guess i'ts not related to Ficsmas?

[plucky isle]

Brackets Exponents Division Multiplication Addition Subtraction

Basic 12 year old math.

[frosty owl]

For an english student, that is :P

[frosty owl]

At me when you find it, I'm logging off 👋

[fierce ruin]

📌 DAS

[manic oak]

I would say zero, which is congruent to 10mod(2), so clearly the calculator is just answering in base 2

[high wave]

the problem isnt so much startup time as the fact that there is build-up of rods in all but the last 2 reactors causing a lot of radiation

[plucky isle]

I didn't find it, so I made a convoluted example.

5 + 2 - 4 + 2 + 1 - 3 - 5 + 2 - 6

You can pair things up however you want. But it gets solved from right to left by the game.

2 - 6 = -4
5 + -4 = 1
3 - 1 = 2
1 - 2 = -1
2 + -1 = 1
4 + 1 = 5
2 - 5 = -3
5 + -3 = 2

[wild coyote]

which recipe is better for high speed connectors, and is there a better one?

[glacial hemlock]

If you have quartz, then the 2nd is better

[bleak coral]

Then you can just store waste on site then, since it'll already be irradiated

[high wave]

nah, id rather minimize radiation damage in the area around reactors and production because if i ever want to make changes again i want to be able to

[bleak coral]

It was a joke

[versed violet]

Max filter consumption is one per 12 seconds, so at certain point of irradiation it doesn't matter if you're swimming in nuclear waste

[bleak coral]

I think that sentence is incomplete, cause the conversation earlier was minimizing radiation so you could use hoverpack/jetpack/bladerunners while surviving on healing items

[versed violet]

I don't expect people to make nuclear and do not have hazmat suit yet.
I did my first 2 nukes without hazmat (for lolz), but after starting them, I could only run fast to safe distance and no fixes were possible

[wind spade]

"A lot" is questionable

[versed violet]

Actually, generator full of 50 uranium rods doesn't give so much radiation. You can stand on top and be out of radio range.

[bleak coral]

personally I'm kinda down for doing nucler with hazmat suit only, I've frankly gotten lazy between the jetpack and hoverpack with making sure traversal is possible without those

feels like it's part of the challenge

[versed violet]

space-OSHA regulations require that all parts of factory be servicable on foot, without need for grappling hooks, jetpacks and wall-phasing technology.

[hypertubes help]

Technical: is it possible to increase autosave slot count to say 10? have a lot of disk space.

[wind spade]

yeah that's what I mean. I see no problem in having full reactor of rods

[topaz hedge]

Well, making fuel with heavy oil from plastic and rubber.. I suppose at the end of the day, fuel does net slightly more power, (with no alts) but it definitely seems like residual fuel could use a little bit of a buff. this is the result of 600 crude into 200 plastic/200 rubber and 300 hor into coke for 36 coal gens. It's on it's own separate grid with only the refineries, coke gens, and water extractors.

[wind spade]

@unkempt depot here are the values of coal gen's consumption at 250% OC

[unkempt depot]

oh thats some lovely numbers

now im questioning why my power production actually works

oh yeah- I remember actually doing the math and it s h o u l d n t

[frosty owl]

True, but you don't usually build/fix stuff from there, rather from the ground/walkways below ^^
To clarify, I'm not saying one shouldn't make their factory traversable on foot/cart, but reducing the radiation in the gens area can allow you to run around it much faster (yeah, I find it a pain to traverse it without blade runners or jetpack, with how huge those areas are xD)

[frosty owl]

You're already bound to need to use the suit in the processing areas, but at least those don't take forever to go through 😆

On another note

There are speculations that it would be possible to finish the game with very few buildings. I'm thinking 3 would suffice, do you think more or less would be needed?
For whatever production, you just need:
-A power source (single building)
-An extraction or production machine: this is a bit trickier, since for nitrogen this means having 2 buildings, the fracker and the satellite pump

All produced/extracted items can be buffered into belts/pipes. No need for pumps if you don't rise your pipes. Everything that produces or consumes either power or resources is a building

Did I miss something, or can we officialize the "3 buildings challenge"?

[topaz hedge]

Uif you separate everything out. Uranium processing isn't that bad.. particle accelerators/nonfissal isn't bad... Encased cells are pretty toasty and it gets damn hot where the mfgs are for plutonium fuel rods

[frosty owl]

Tbf, the worst part in my uranium processing were the uranium belts ahahah (plutonium is painful though)

[topaz hedge]

I dunno. I started a new save.. just a regular playthrough.. I'm gonna try to finish it with nothing but coal gens

Have 32 burning coal, and 36 burning coke. And after hmf/computers factories are built I'll be working on unlocking 7 and 8 lol

Hey, this world saves and loads instantly though! I like it lol

[humble berry]

What's the best overclock for Alternate: Heavy Encased Frame for the cleanest numbers?

[topaz hedge]

Not sure there is one. I've tried multiple times, although I'm not very good with the maths. I couldn't find it

[humble berry]

Alright!

I found the best overclock

128%

It's nice for the encased beams. It will take 12 encased beams per minute

or 249% to make 7 frames per minute

[high wave]

with uranium its not rly a problem but with plutonium it kinda is

[wind spade]

not really. Full Nuclear plant radiates 7 foundations in distance

[naive cradle]

Hey im building a mega base everthing will me made there,im confused about the layout can some one send me site or video explaining the layout?

[frosty owl]

How can someone explain the layout of your base?

Though, a good tip is: don't build everything in one place
Have satellite bases and production

[mystic moon]

Try the calculators linked in #welcome

[oblique hollow]

@sand garnet heres a nice setup for your meme run

[sand garnet]

i dont need cable for anything afaik 😦

[oblique hollow]

compooter

crystal oscillator

[sand garnet]

but im making iron plates

[oblique hollow]

then for after the iron plates

[sand garnet]

oh no after that Im stopping lol

[oblique hollow]

shame

[sand garnet]

back to normal factory after this

[oblique hollow]

guess ill have to continue this then for my Plumbing School Save

[proven prawn]

Hmm idk so far the materials for me are the worst part, belts for uranium processing aren't that bad but getting the materials to get the rod plant running is definitely going to be my personal nightmare.

[frosty owl]

I was referring to what irradiated my nuclear factory the most

[livid meteor]

since this is the meta channel. Any "meta" position for a aluminum production?

I mean in the end I need a lot of water and coal right?

[frosty owl]

I found this area really convenient when I wanted to make a maxed allu plant. Got coal, water and now oil too and it's decently close to the baux area

[livid meteor]

Hmmm, guess I need to kill my coal generators at this spot then

[bleak coral]

The meta is to use the alts sloppy alumina and electrode aluminum scrap, so no coal involved. That's the most buaxite efficient tied with instant. Instant however also uses sulfur so it's generally not prefered, unless you feel like you can spare the sulfur for it's neat setup.

[warm lagoon]

I need a computer/heavy modular frame factory but i have no clue how big I should go and which recipes to use as i dont have trains yet.

[livid meteor]

So... No coal and sulfur needed?

[bleak coral]

HMF factories can get out of hand really quickly, they eat up a lot of resources and space. So if you want a big project do several manufacturers worth, but if you want to keep it small and manageable only do 1 or 2 manufacturers.

[bleak coral]

not with the preferred alts, no
but you do need to go get the alt recipes first if you want to do it that way

[frosty owl]

Mutters about the low footprints of bolted recipes for MFs

[bleak coral]

you also use flexible frame to undo all those gains 😛

[livid meteor]

whut

Just about to drain my first bauxite from mother earth but I need to know where to setup the big production site

My plan is to use a train to pickup all the bauxite and bring it to a big production site

[spare pond]

conveyor master race 😂

[livid meteor]

:O

But I like trains

[spare pond]

I do respect that

And trains gives you the abilty to "tchou-tchou" which is kinda all train fans want I guess 🙂

[frosty owl]

Well, that was to reach endgame fast ahaha (though, they DO gain on footprint!)

Well... I think...

[livid meteor]

I just want have a train grab allll the bauxite

ALL of it >:O and then cry because I can't use that much

[bleak coral]

bolted with steel screws? sure
bolted without steel screws? no
flexible? never, it asks for too many extra resources so the few less manufacturers you have to place doesn't make up for all the other extra stuff you have to place

[frosty owl]

If I remember right, you can do that with less then 6 cars

[livid meteor]

But cars are eeew

[frosty owl]

Train cars...

[livid meteor]

Oooooh

[bleak coral]

that's where the word originally comes from

[frosty owl]

My mind is blown

[livid meteor]

Ok, this task is to overwhelmin, time to make a break and play isaac, lol

[bleak coral]

nevermind I'm wrong, thought it was 😛

[livid meteor]

But thanks for the input tho

[bleak coral]

but same latin origin at least

[frosty owl]

It just worked well since I had tons of rubber anyway due to the (Totally not footprint-friendly, but located in a different area ofc) recycled setups
The flexible was the most convenient to fit in the iron/steel production area ^^

[bleak coral]

yeah I have no measurements for footprint/power consumption if you just have rubber lying around 🤷‍♂️

only for whole systems

I forget people overproduce and just have stuff lying around, since my preferred style is to build whole systems that don't intermingle

like if I make rubber it's for one purpose, rather than a whole rubber factory that feeds multiple other factories

[frosty owl]

Sink goes very well with overproduction, which goes well with "maximized" designs (designs that use up the entirety of a node)
I use the latter ones a lot, even in "speedrun spaghet" worlds ^^

[bleak coral]

I mean would you mind a speed/efficiency buff to flexible though? Cause even if you have the rubber lying around it feels a bit weak IMO

[frosty owl]

Urgh, just thinking about making a recycled setup that strays from the convenience of using certain amounts of oil or HOR to follow specific output needs makes me shudder tbh

[frosty owl]

Dunno, honestly it wasn't bad imo. Lots of frames with little effort on my part. MAYBE a reduction on rubber, but the amount of frames/min they suck in (and HMF they output) is quite insane already

[bleak coral]

I mean encased is only 25% slower, I wouldn't call that insanely fast

I guess you could also fix the situation by making encased slower, maybe

I'm still not sure that makes up for the efficiency difference, and thus less buildings feeding it

[frosty owl]

25% at 100% means 50% at 200%
Heresy go brrrrrr

[bleak coral]

that's not how the math works lol

[bleak coral]

and I know you know that

[glacial hemlock]

I heard someone said flexible frame is good

[bleak coral]

oh hey more maths, to be fair this is a comparison with flexible being made with resource efficient rather than building/space/power efficient recipes

[warm lagoon]

So what recipes should i use for HMF factories

im harddrive huntin lol

besides i think a few a minute are fine

Factory buildin isnt the problem for me, the inputs usually are

like where tf do i get 3000 iron a minute from

[bleak coral]

although now that I think about it, as long as they're using the same stuff it's still a fair comparison, cause they'd both benefit the same power/space wise from using different recipes

[frosty owl]

They're convenient rather
High speed, low steel/iron chain complexity and footprint, simpler belting (lots of 1:1, 1:2 ratios with bolted recipes)
Ofc, at the cost of more resources

[bleak coral]

That may be true for the bolted, but it's not for flexible

Finished the comparison, litterally same recipes chosen for speed/power/space, but switch encased with flexible:
Encased: https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=jAKg3LJ3iCfDsEND3pY0
Flexbile: https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=IRpQ5eJeDRFQfh0V73kq

more power, more space, all the stuff before is basically the same but flexible needs more of it

[frosty owl]

Eh... Hard to say with a quick comparison (what I have time for rn)
Flexible uses about 60% of the pipes, but nearly makes it up in steel consumption with beams for screws (though beams mean half the constructors for the same steel ingots/min)

I made the comparison without bothering to change the bolted recipes though xD

[toxic flax]

Is this correct? Shouldn't it be 150 water extractors?

75*120 = 9,000
9,000 / 600 = 15

[frosty owl]

Water extractors make 120/min

[toxic flax]

Yes, and 250% OC on nuclear reactor requires double the water, no?

[frosty owl]

A bit more, but close

[toxic flax]

It's like 2.00000000953478295647365783429657843658973

But close enough that it's 600 m3/min

[frosty owl]

So why should it be 150 extractors?

[toxic flax]

So to operate 30 reactors with uranium fuel rods at 250% OC, it would require 30 * 600 m3/min of water, yes?

Which is 18,000

Ohhhh, wait. I see.

It's Mk. 3 miner OC'd at 250%

Not the reactor itself.

Well shoot, I'd just make 15 reactors then.

Simplifies the inputs.

5x Water Extractor per reactor, dedicated pipe.

[frosty owl]

Tbf, trying to have your generators run in 600/min is kinda asking for troubles
I suggest going for the classic 300/min unless it's a temporary setup

[toxic flax]

Why?

[frosty owl]

You can save as much space by OC the water extractors xD

[toxic flax]

Good point.

So 250% OC water extractors, 2 per reactor?

And then give each reactor an indy fluid buffer to keep it cooled for eternity.

[frosty owl]

Cause pipes at 600/min are a bit iffy. There have been reports about pipes emptying out in big saves too on loading, in that case only having less than 600/min requirement can save your power (the pipes can refill without the Gen sucking all water as soon as it reaches it)

[toxic flax]

So mathematically speaking, it only really makes sense to OC extractors, miners, and power plants, right? All the others, you can just build more buildings without the OC power draw penalties?

So with the indy buffers, I think I should be ok, even if the pipes empty.

[frosty owl]

In a "not waste power" perspective, yes.
But looking at it from the point of convenience, you may not want to OC any generator at all unless you don't care that much about efficiency (they don't reach 200% effective usage precisely)

[frosty owl]

Yeah, I was gonna suggest that xD

[fierce ruin]

they don't hit anything besides 100% precisely

and that's not accounting for frame drops

[sacred pilot]

The only thing that really needs it is miners and extractors. That’s the only way to violate the raw output limits in the game

But there’s a lot to be said for tuning values precisely and saving space so building is easier

[frosty owl]

Though, you have enough power (if you max out uranium and plutonium) to process all resources into end-game materials with all alts (so max power usage possible) and still have enough power to OC everything to 150~200%

So yeah, I too suggest to OC freely on machines :)

[toxic flax]

I still gotta go out and get a bunch of hard drives. I unlocked the last tier in the HUB, and I don't have any hard drives left. 😦

If anyone wants to come to my world and harvest hard drives, I'll give you a cookie. XD

[mystic moon]

#looking-for-group-old

[frosty owl]

It was just to make the point that even if you power all the production possible, you still have THAT MUCH extra power ^^

[toxic flax]

Anyway, so yeah, with default recipes, I can power 30 plants at 100% or 15 plants at 250%.

250% power plant means 250% power output, right?

With 200% (and some incredibly small decimal) resource consumption.

[topaz hedge]

if you don't OC the reactors. 250% OC'd water extractor is 1:1 reactors to water extractors ^^

[wind spade]

no, power output is the same as resource usage

250% OC is 202% resource consumption and 202% power production

[versed violet]

I can confirm that my nuclear plant shuts down every couple hours (249% OC), most likely due to mk2 pipe limit fluctuations.

[frosty owl]

Getting free power in a factory sim?
Naive :laughing:

[topaz hedge]

Yup. even at 300/min with 250% oc on the extractors. when I load my save, my pipes empty and reactors starve for ~5-10 seconds before it stabilizes. tldr, don't OC power generation buildings

[versed violet]

Unless you don't have space to put another one 😕

[topaz hedge]

I would say pick a better location. like over the ocean.. but.. I feel you on that. I've done it and it sucks :/

[versed violet]

It is an 'experimental reactor"

Nvm that it currently provides 90% of my total power

[high wave]

trying to oc water extractors is good for small setups but not big ones

[frosty owl]

Why so?

[high wave]

lots of shards

a maxed setup is 432 reactors

[frosty owl]

Bruh... Shards are renewable

[high wave]

yea but does that rly matter?

[mystic moon]

How so

[high wave]

doggos

[fierce ruin]

doggos

[mystic moon]

Ah

[frosty owl]

Doggos

[high wave]

they take forever tho, especially for 1296 shards

[fierce ruin]

or kirby...

[frosty owl]

It's up to you to know how and where to use your shards :P

[high wave]

how and where is mines and everywhere

[frosty owl]

But I don't think "don't OC 'cause it needs shards" is a valid argument xD
I mean, the more you build, the more shards you have anyway ^^

[high wave]

i mean yes but also no

i have every purple slug on the map, and thats half of the shards that would be needed for this

just for ore nodes on the map you need 962 shards

[frosty owl]

When I had 12 doggos, I got more shards/min than what I used :P
I do build quite slow, but 12 isn't that much too

[fierce ruin]

alz gamer on the other hand reunited to soviet union of doggos

[unkempt depot]

okay the bigger question, why would anyone need 100 steel plates per minuite?

Exscuse me if its obvious I still havnt gotten very far in the game in terms of tech

[fierce ruin]

the numbers get big...

[sand garnet]

yuge, even

Hmf is a massive steel sink

[unkempt depot]

fair

also I finnaly got my game updates

lets do the math for my power production-

I have 18 coal gens

that use 30.35 coal per minuite

[mystic moon]

Overclocked?

[unkempt depot]

tho on the current one I only have 12

[unkempt depot]

yes fully overclocked

[unkempt depot]

the other 6 are elsewhere

then I have 2 Mk II miners overclocked so I get 240 coal per minuite powering these 12 full over clocked coal gens

[fierce ruin]

Net power

it's the last math you do

[unkempt depot]

im not trying to figure out the power

im trying to figure out how much coal this is all using

uses basic google calculator rq

[fierce ruin]

!wikisearch coal generator

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=coal generator

[unkempt depot]

364.2 coal per minuite

I am making a total of 480 coal per minuite with my miners

so I could potentionally fuel another 6 coal gens-

ima do it

[high wave]

always do coal gens in sets of 8

[fierce ruin]

480 = 4 sets of 8

[high wave]

exactly

[unkempt depot]

the thing you forget

im overclocking to 250 percent

[fierce ruin]

3:8 WEs to gens

[unkempt depot]

so 6 coal gens eat 180.7 coal per minuite

[frosty owl]

Always do coal gens in sets of 420

[high wave]

wHY

[fierce ruin]

^^

[unkempt depot]

because yes

[mystic moon]

That's what I do

I have 13 sets

[high wave]

why would you overclock anything other than a mine tho

[unkempt depot]

I must use all the decimals

dont question my insanity

[fierce ruin]

that's my line!

[frosty owl]

It ends up Fing up your math most of the time though :/

[unkempt depot]

yes math is horrid just let me be insane

[high wave]

@unkempt depot did you make a coal plant in the blue crater??

[fierce ruin]

F

[unkempt depot]

yes I believe so

[frosty owl]

Tip: rather, OC your water extractors

[unkempt depot]

hold on let me see the interactive map rq

[unkempt depot]

good idea like actually ima do that

273 water per second

absolute poggers

[unkempt depot]

yes blue craters

[frosty owl]

You're just trying to piss me off with that number

[unkempt depot]

maybe-

IMao

also with the overclocking of the water things

[fierce ruin]

jarate jarage

[frosty owl]

Listen...

[unkempt depot]

it ises about 40 more power and 3 shards more < or I can just use 1 more water extractor

uses*

[frosty owl]

Go ban yourself!

[fierce ruin]

tyler scream

[frosty owl]

That's true for pretty much anything you OC, water aside

[unkempt depot]

okay before I change anything is there a way to snap water extractors to a grid?

[mystic moon]

They will snap to the sides of foundations

[unkempt depot]

poggers that makes my life 10 times easier

[frosty owl]

Tip: water extractors are nearly 2.5 fohndations wide
Meaning you can "box them" with walkways ^^

[high wave]

20x19.5 meters i think

[frosty owl]

Kinda like so
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553550313533997057/785799774443798548/Screenshot20201123-17564900000.png

[unkempt depot]

sweet

alright

[unkempt depot]

okay in the end I just overclocked my water extractors

I can say im happy I did, now time to do the same to the other side

[frosty owl]

Easy enough if you input "900/min rubber" in greeny's tool with all alts on ^^

[high wave]

the whole point of blueprints is to completely avoid building big time

[frank snow]

I might be stupid but how do I split a conveyor into 5 equal paths

[bleak coral]

!wikisearch prime balancer

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=prime balancer

[bleak coral]

wait not that, this: https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Tutorial:Prime_splitter_arrays

[frank snow]

do I ever get a way to split a specific number of items one way and the rest another way

[glacial hemlock]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Balancer

[frosty owl]

Not with a single splitter 😅

[wind spade]

no, but also mostly it's not needed and there's a way to do it differently

[sharp warren]

Hey, I started building a nuclear setup, and naturally, I got lost in the numbers pretty quick. I decided to make an excel sheet because I'm too dumb to keep track of stuff. I thought I share if anyone interested. It's probably not 100% accurate and full of miscalculations, but hey, better than nothing. DM if You want it.

[sand garnet]

.mkv?

[sharp warren]

Screen recording of the sheet

[sand garnet]

...but why?

you have the sheet, so why record the sheet?

[sharp warren]

Cam I upload the sheet?

[bleak coral]

it'd be less suspicious than a movie file lol

[sand garnet]

I'd keep it to DMs only, because sharing files isnt really great on a discord of 150k people

[bleak coral]

also that too

[sharp warren]

I did say DM if interested

[wind spade]

also, why not use some of the tools in pins?

[sharp warren]

I was trying to help. No need this why this and why not that. DM if You want it, that's it.

[sand garnet]

yeah but if you're acknowledging that something might be completely broken, how would it be helpful

[wind spade]

I'm just asking, why are you being so aggressive?

[sand garnet]

and using the tools readily available right now for crosschecking means less flaws in your own system as well

[sharp warren]

Bye

[wind spade]

there are tools that can do the math for you, I was just asking why did you chose to not use them? (at least for checking your math)

[sand garnet]

weird

[wind spade]

🤷

[bronze silo]

hey guys, do you guys bother with over clocking and mk2 miners on impure nodes?

[bleak coral]

yeah, why not?

[sand garnet]

yes

[oblique hollow]

Its more ouput

[bronze silo]

I will use mk2's but reserve my sharks on the pure nodes for now ... running low 😛

*shards

can't blame that on auto correct ... on my PC 😄

[thorn pollen]

im running 200% on a pure oil node with a 600 pipe how many refinerys can that run on the alt heavy oil

[wind spade]

yeah I also put my sharks only on pure nodes

but for shards, put them on any miner you need

[thorn pollen]

@wind spade does your calc do my question

[wind spade]

should

[thorn pollen]

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=UMe44vrbaErSsaZXozbJ is this right

[oblique hollow]

Just enter 600 as the oil input

And then select HOR as a product and recipe

[humble berry]

106.(6)% is the best clockspeed for Heavy Encased Frames alternate.

This wai it takes exactly one minute to craft once

[oblique hollow]

or use two machines at 53,333333 %. That way you dont need to use a shard

[frosty owl]

That's for normies

[wind spade]

sure, but why do you need it to craft every minute?

[humble berry]

or any multiple, of curse

but craftic every minute is the closest overclock to 100%

[humble berry]

yes

[normal mason]

Sry guys but anyone have or anywhere I can find how many materials I need to finish the last phase of space elevator cause I "try" to calculate myself and i have a headache lol

[wind spade]

that mostly depends on which recipes you will use

[normal mason]

Well calculate with the default recipes I try to find the number of materials for the "assembly director system" and I end up find that I need 8.000 adaptive control units and that means that for those I need 40 000 circuit boards and 60000 automated wiring. Pfff is that correct?

[humble berry]

By the way, greeny, even if it frafts every minute, it still makes 3 frames per minute

[frosty owl]

I think using "per minute" numbers is much more convenient tbh

But yes, the numbers are right

[rocky cypress]

Hi, I got a bit of a big question:
I am on my way on starting my nuclear project. I've asked around and someone commented with the following numbers:
The number we are talking about is 476 nuclear plants.
Using 22.4 Plutonium Fuel Rods alongside with 50.4 Uranium Fuel Rods.

With these I would supposely get the maximum amount of power out of nuclear power plants.

Now I have these numbers, but I don't know how to transform this into how many buildings I need (water extractors, amount of nodes, how much uranium do I need per minute...)

[drowsy flicker]

What clock speed do I underclock the 7th Fuel Generator to if a pipeline is providing 80m^3 of Fuel? (7 Generators consume 84).

[strong whale]

If your numbers are correct, 6 generators consume 72m^3 of fuel, meaning you want to underclock the last one (which should therefore use 12m^3 of fuel/min at 100%) to 66.6 recurring% (Ideally - is physically impossible in-game) but only If I did the math right - maybe someone else can confirm

[glacial hemlock]

@rocky cypress !wikisearch PFR

[rocky cypress]

I'm not sure what you mean buddy 😛

[strong whale]

here:

!wikisearch PFR

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=PFR

[strong whale]

nevermind - though this actually existed

Ok I'm dumb - he wanted to point you to the article for Plutonium Fuel Rod's but thats not what your question asks

[rocky cypress]

Yeah, I wanted to know if there is some way that I could translate the numbers I shared into the amount of buildings 🙂

[glacial hemlock]

There is an image at the bottom that shows all the buildings.

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Plutonium_Fuel_Rod?file=Uranium-Plutonium_production_plan.png

[rocky cypress]

Aha, now I see it. I will have a look at it. Thanks!

Good god, I don't know where to start xD

[glacial hemlock]

Buy yourself a pack of coffee beans, you will need some time to build it. Start with water extractors, because you can't move them easily.

[rocky cypress]

I don't see how many water extractors I need, or am I not seeing well?

[fierce ruin]

Extractors/miners not shown

[high wave]

does anyone have a formula for the total value of a ticket?

[fierce ruin]

!wikisearch awesome shop

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=awesome shop

[high wave]

not what im looking for

that has the formula for the value of a single ticket

i want the value of a ticket and every ticket before it

[fierce ruin]

erp sink not shop lol

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/AWESOME_Sink#Coupon_cost

[high wave]

yea no thats not what i want

500 * (ceil(n/3)-1)2 + 1000 is the value for a single ticket but i dont rly have a use for that

[fierce ruin]

if you want the cost of each one you can add them up or take the "integral"

you can do that by spreadsheet or code

[high wave]

well im barely in hs so ima go try to figure it out

[fierce ruin]

the idea is that ciel(n/3) makes the coupon cost in groups of 3

[high wave]

yea ik that

[fierce ruin]

oh do you mean the cost based on percentage filled?

[high wave]

no, i want to be able to say the 2000th ticket and then get a number for total points needed to get there

[glacial hemlock]

@fierce ruin well you could divide that by 120 to get the numbers of water extractors. Miners it depends on purity

@high wave you mean a summation from the first to nth ticket?

[high wave]

yes

[fierce ruin]

constructing graph...

rough draft @high wave https://www.desmos.com/calculator/1kw5ufezuk

[fierce ruin]

so old I mixed up integral with summation XD

Important to note* the graph is presented as continuous in regions where it isn't

[wind spade]

lol imagine building this using that image 😄

[high wave]

im still working on the formula but i think im getting close

[fierce ruin]

did you not see my link?

[high wave]

yea i saw that but i want it in excel and i want to figure out something myself lol

ok so

i did it

but

i cant even read what i did

=(250*((2*(CEILING.MATH(H5/3))^3)-(5*(CEILING.MATH(H5/3))^2)+(17*(CEILING.MATH(H5/3)))-6))+(500*(((CEILING.MATH(H5/3))-1)^2)+1000)*(H5-((CEILING.MATH(H5/3))*3-1))

but it does work

and if anyone wants it here it is

[wind spade]

wtf is that formula?

[high wave]

ima be honest i dont rly know but it works

[wind spade]

I mean

what does it do

[high wave]

it gets the value of a ticket and every ticket before it

[wind spade]

I see

I think there will be an easier way tho

[high wave]

yes

[fierce ruin]

goodness

[high wave]

yes there is

[fierce ruin]

there's prolly a summation function in excel you can cheat off me just don't make it obvious

[high wave]

listen if it works, dont fix it

[oblique hollow]

excel literally has a summation function called Sum, yes

[high wave]

shhhhh no my way is better

[fierce ruin]

^

no

[high wave]

my way is the best way

it took me so long to figure that out i forgot what i was trying to do

i was trying to get the total cost of everything + 2 golden nuts

now ima add a small table that says how many of a couple endgame items that is

[fierce ruin]

piece of cake by now

[frosty owl]

||E+11 = V||

[fierce ruin]

are you happy now?

[high wave]

nope but closer

[fierce ruin]

what now?

[high wave]

every item

:D

[fierce ruin]

XD copy paste time

[high wave]

yea

[fierce ruin]

iron ore wil be the hardest tho...

[oblique hollow]

why

[fierce ruin]

it's 1 point

hard maths

[oblique hollow]

yes very hard maths. one plus one is 0 because iron ore worthless

[fierce ruin]

BTW slime I finished the cost calculator based on % complete and remaining cost

V1 https://www.desmos.com/calculator/m901poa9z7

[high wave]

ok so i got distracted by moistcritical's new video but now its time to start making that table

[high wave]

i have done it

almost exactly an hour later lol

there is now a dropdown on the interface tab with every category of item, once you select one it will tell you how many you need to produce to get to the ticket goal you have in the input

[fierce ruin]

nerd

[high wave]

you think i didnt know that already?

[glacial hemlock]

Just feed all the TPR into teh Sink

[high wave]

its better to use ADS'

because you can produce a lot more of them, so its more point overall

[glacial hemlock]

I got first nut only after 160 hours. The 2nd could take much longer

[high wave]

now lets say you wanted 10 nuts

[glacial hemlock]

That converts to how many hours?

[fierce ruin]

well you can if you want

[high wave]

if you make 200 per min thats ~3470 hours

[fierce ruin]

perfection

[glacial hemlock]

Oh, lol

[high wave]

now lets say you wanted 69 of them

[fierce ruin]

oh lord

[high wave]

accounting for leap years, that is 109.5616 years of continuous playing

or 109 years, 212 days and ~ 5 hours

so maybe you dont want 69 of them

now lets say

hypothetically

you want 69420 of them

[remote rivet]

nice

consider tommy has 69420 apples

[high wave]

it would take 108,311,047,821 years and 227 days

the universe is 13,800,000,000 years old

it would take 7.8x the current age of the universe to get 69420 golden nuts

this is the true vision of the devs when they made this game

[dusty crow]

i have 40 heavy oil per minute, what should be the overclock for fuel?

*residual fuel to be exact

[frosty owl]

The number of the beast

[dusty crow]

666???

66.6%?

[frosty owl]

Yep

[dusty crow]

Satanic fuel O_O

ye but now the question is, packaged fuel i guess

[oblique hollow]

packaged fuel?

[dusty crow]

nvm figured it out

I dont have Fuel Generators

so I gotta then get a PC factory going.. as well as modular frames (the heavy ones)

because I want MORE power

[oblique hollow]

the heavy ones are literally called heavy modular frames

[dusty crow]

im assuming those are gonna be a bitch to make

[oblique hollow]

with good recipes.... not really

modular frames, steel pipes, EIB and concrete is what i use

Heavy Encased Frame

[sacred pilot]

does anyone understand the over/underclocking math for generators such that I can perfectly use up all the fuel and not have things turning on and off?

Like if I have a 400 line of fuel, running 1/3 clock of a generator at the end does not utiliize the system properly

[bleak coral]

we have the math for it, it's not linear and the production/consumption rate does not match the clock speed: https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Clock_speed#Clock_speed_for_power_generators

[sacred pilot]

I figured this was the case, and it is obnoxious

[bleak coral]

agreed

[sacred pilot]

I have set up before to take the extra 8/min and package and sink it, but then I have to be making plastic with the polymer runoff and that's a whole pain in the ass

[bleak coral]

it should at least be linear, I don't really care if they cap it at 200% instead of 250% or not (the effective cap on generators right now with the non-linear formula)

[sacred pilot]

The liquids are just so picky about use rates that if you can't make it perfect it's VERY annoying. In theory a small excess will run for a long time but I think would cause a shutdown of something eventually...

I could not QUITE use all the oil in a pure node to make it work, but again. obnoxious.

[bleak coral]

you can get it mostly close, now that you have the formulas

and just go like .0001% lower or something, so it never shuts off

anyway this my QA post on it that sums up what I thin anyway, if you want to upvote it: https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/606b7372aa0ba107e3256b33

[sacred pilot]

yeah ok at least i CAN do the math now

[wind spade]

ideally you don't want to OC gens and use the nice numbers which they have at 100%

[bleak coral]

it's hard to avoid changing the clockspeed on fuel gens, because the numbers for the fuel setup you're doing rarely are cleanly divisible by 12 or 4.5

[high wave]

wrong

it will be off for 52.5 minutes for every year it is running

and thats just unacceptable

[bleak coral]

I meant so that the fuel generator would never be off, you offset the clockspeed by a little bit so that you're overfeeding just slightly

[sacred pilot]

Looks like if I have 8 fuel/min at the end of a line, I do 60% clock speed

[wind spade]

but you can easily sacrifice a few % of one gen and have slightly more production (that also helps if you have buffers)

[sacred pilot]

actually, 59% to just barely over-feed

[wind spade]

you can have up to 4 decimal places as well btw

[sacred pilot]

some very tiny number. I stopped paying for personal excel so no solver 😛

[bleak coral]

59.03116.......%, so 59% should be "close enough"

[high wave]

thats so inefficient it crashed my router and i had to go restart it

[sacred pilot]

that was my thought. I wanted to finish employee of the planet but I'm capped out on power with 1 machine making everything. which meant i wanted nuclear, but that requires so much production i don't have the power, which means i need more fuel power, which....

damn this game sometimes O_O

next time 'round, i'll probably build nuclear power BEFORE making the final space elevator parts

[high wave]

use batteries to setup nuclear

get enough to keep the nuclear production online for just long enough for it to make a few fuel rods

or turn it on in sections

[swift robin]

yeah the batteries are really nice. only issue is when someone disconnects something they shouldn't have and you dont notice until hours later

[high wave]

related to conversation in #satisfactory

[signal nimbus]

Trying a bottom-up maximization of the world for total potential raw production. So far, iron/coal has a solution for 95,730 Iron Ingots, 44,685 Steel Ingots, 120 Black Powder, and 6 Nobelisks. Yes, had to factor in a bit of weapons production.

Copper/Caterium has a solution for 43,950 Copper Ingots and 63360 Quickwire. I'm trying to work Aluminum in because of Alclad recipes also needing copper, but I can get as far as the ingots before having to go "time for top down again".

[regal kayak]

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production and set everything you want to produce to "maximize"

[bleak coral]

What's the roadblock? I've always felt bottom-up design was a solution in search of problem just on a macro level, but it would be interesting to know what specifically gets in the way on the micro level.

[regal kayak]

except for those nobelisks and whatnot

[bleak coral]

that's a terrible plan, it'll maximize the lowest ppm thing and then set everything else to that ppm

[regal kayak]

yeah you are right, didn't think of it through

there's a per-item slider though to fiddle around with in maximize mode, that can get closer to what @signal nimbus is doing

[signal nimbus]

I'm actually doing it with Google docs and the Microsoft calculator so I can see how the numbers line up for numbers of items. And yeah, it's a solution in search of a problem, but fun to do. The road block is what the four potential end items are used for. Copper sheets? Easy, just three potential destinations. Circuit Boards, Ai Limiters, and Heat Sinks. Alclad Sheets are also easy, Classic Batteries and Heat Sinks. Aluminum Casings aren't bad either, just Radio Control Units, Fused Modular Frames, and Heat Exchangers.

Quickwire, on the other hand...

And as the list grows, the options multiply.

[regal kayak]

I tried spreadsheet-only first because I also didn't want to just look up the answers, but realized around t6-t7 that it just isn't feasible. Problem is, like you said, that increasing production x also requires you to increase/decrease y, and the amount of variables just keeps going up the further you go up the production chain

you could learn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_programming and do it by hand. The tool essentially does that but ofc it's fast as hell with the power of computers

[signal nimbus]

Mhm. So my solution, so far, is to reduce the number of variables.

I could, but... highest I ever got is diff eq, so I'm more comfortable picking things that make my choices easy.

Linear stuff would require more time to learn than I have. I'd be done with the analysis before the computer solved it and gave me non-sensical answers that don't work in the game.

[fierce ruin]

Linear algebra is a worthwhile topic to pick up. The Linear solver in essence reduces the problem beautifully into a series of linear inequalities.

[signal nimbus]

Oh believe me, I'd jump at the opportunity if I was still in college.

[bleak coral]

I know some people characterize the recipe choices of greeny's calc as nonsensical, but they're really not. They're just very narrowly focused. It solves for most things or most weighted efficiency very well. But those two things are not the only considerations, they're just the easiest to quantify objectively. Other considerations like what resources are you already using, what's easier to set up, what do you think would be more fun, power, space might be subjective or add lots of complexity.

[signal nimbus]

Exhibit A: I just selected Radio Connection Unit because it eliminates Aluminum Casings and Crystal Oscilators from the production chain. Most efficient? Maybe not. Simplest? Almost certainly.

[bleak coral]

It's recycled + diluted's fault, they make oil too dang efficient 😛

well maybe not for the RCU choice, but for most of the choices people find questionable

[glacial hemlock]

Like prioritizing steel coated plate over default iron plate

[regal kayak]

it's an interesting problem - how to articulate all these fuzzy thoughts about what is simple and what "makes sense", and whether or not you can use them as criteria for programmatically optimizing your production lines

it's really difficult to say what actually is the "best" thing to do in satisfactory, at least for me, which makes the game all the more interesting

sure you can solve how to get max points from sink, but is that really the "best" thing to do

and ofc the reality is that you might not be able to do that simply because of performance issues

[fierce ruin]

currently Greeny's calc does not account for sink value which makes judging max sink value quite dicey

even then it doesn't compare items to other items so it'd would need 3 linear solvers LOL

[regal kayak]

right, but as an example of what could be "easily" calculated

easy meaning the criteria is clear

[wind spade]

That's why I think it's best to let user configure as much as possible

Instead of being "smart" and trying to show "best" setup

[signal nimbus]

Update on the "max production" bottom-up analysis, some of the maximizing was taken care of by maximizing nuclear/plutonium, which is also the definition of maximizing Uranium. So, this may be one of the worlds that not only has max Nuclear, but requires it.

...805 250% refineries just making iron ingots...

[glacial hemlock]

You will run out of power slugs first

[wind spade]

laughs in lizard doggo farm

[fresh geyser]

what the new meta for fuel last time i played its was package water meta who was the best with purple juice

[wind spade]

diluted fuel is best now

[fresh geyser]

ok ty

hi again greeny i remember you 🙂

[oblique hollow]

diluted fuel but without the packaged water

now its just purple juice and water into the blender

and then purple juice and orange juice into the blender for red juice

[fresh geyser]

blender ok i will look what is this

so orange coolaid with grape coolaid make cherry coolaid gotcha

[oblique hollow]

yes

plus a bit of yellow spice and coke made from oil

[fresh geyser]

ok

so turbo blend heavy

[violet trout]

How much coal gens can 60/min coal power?

[loud heron]

4

[violet trout]

ok thx

[fresh geyser]

15coal/min and 45 m3 of water/min by generator

[edgy loom]

biomass burner IRL

[fresh geyser]

it should produced a lot of waste?

[simple mist]

have you not seen the smoke coming out of them

[fresh geyser]

no?

i was talking more about ashes

[simple mist]

incineration

[torpid geode]

Has anyone ever calculated what the maximum sink per minute is in the current map? Assuming there are no performance problems and only with conveyors (so it doesn't cost energy).

[fresh geyser]

depend if you want to go a lot of low tier at the same time or some high tier at the same time if someone have calculated that he is a genius because you need to take in count the value of each item the speed you can produced them and make a vector for each item and combination of item

added to that the maximum output of each resource

we will talk more about high score point /minutes then a maximum optimal 🙂

[wind spade]

it's impossible to calculate it unless devs tell us how the entity limit works

and which building uses how much of that limit

and even then it'll be super hard to calculate

[simple mist]

theoretically assuming it is possible to have this much materials at once it can be 571,705,680 a min

this is the highest value item multiplied by the mk5 780 a minute but i doubt it is possible to make 780 Thermal Propulsion Rockets a minute

[wind spade]

that's not really how you would calculate it

and fyi you can only make 103.78 thermal propulstion rockets

[bleak coral]

also there is an upper limit to points per minute, though I'm not sure if it's reachable beyond storing a bunch of high point items and then dumping them all at once

it's 2,147,483,647 iirc - the max of a signed 32-bit integer

[quiet sable]

You can make more than one awesome sink...

[simple mist]

oh

[glacial hemlock]

i am analyzing the weighted point for each of the items now. It may be possible to start with items with highest sink/wp, then work backwords.

now sure if maximum sink points can be calculated this way

[simple mist]

than yeah your gona need ratios for value for each item

[glacial hemlock]

but you have to balance it with U/P nuclear setup so that the nuclear is just enough to power all those factories

[quiet sable]

You'd need to analyse every possible combination of recipes for every combination of items with the available resources on the map, while theoretically possible, it is practically impossible to brute force an answer

[glacial hemlock]

"insert NASA / minecraft meme here"

[bleak coral]

I'll just wait until greeny adds the points solve and let his work/the computer do it 🙂

for now I'll be content with just seeing people do rocket/ACU max solves for points, which is more human doable

[quiet sable]

Yeah, you would need a currently unrealistic amount of computing power to solve it

[quiet sable]

Even that will take a loooooooooooooong time, due to working out possible alt recipes etc because of the long recipe chain

[bleak coral]

I think you're underestimating how good a computer is at solving this stuff

@wind spade you're working on a point solve right?

[quiet sable]

You would come out with a very very long list of possible input ratios and have to match them up to the available recources

[fresh geyser]

true you will need a algoryth

[bleak coral]

how much more complex is it compared to a normal solve?

[quiet sable]

With a computer, the second half is easy enough

Normal solves don't compare all possible combinations of recipes

[bleak coral]

they do though

well all possible combinations of alt recipes

which is the big ballooning part

[fresh geyser]

you need to create all the variable to make it work and that is the harder job

we talk month of work lol

[quiet sable]

That's why all the calculators come up with the same answer every time?

Because they don't.

[bleak coral]

which one are you using? cause satisfactory tools does if you have the same inputs and choose the same solve

[bleak coral]

oh I'm just realizing this was in response to the rockets/ACU, which have been done more less at least moderately accurately

and I think that was actually done in spreadsheets, not even using a calculator

oh little bit of a typo there, I meant ADS or assembly director systems not ACUs

[mystic moon]

Real biomass burner irl

[high wave]

real real biomass burner irl

[wind spade]

I think you're underestimating what's all the stuff that needs to be taken care of before you can calculate max points

stuff like entity limit

[high wave]

entity limit can be increased

[bleak coral]

with mixed results, it's basically not guaranteed to be stable past the limit

and I wasn't thinking of practical limitations, only theoretical ones, but I'm guessing I'm underestimating those too

[high wave]

as far as i know this is the most points per min possible

but idk if there is enough stuff left for power if you make the factory for that

[wind spade]

I'm indeed working on max point optimisation, but you need to take power and miners into consideration

neither of which my tool can do at the moment

even if you ignore entity limit

[high wave]

what do you mean by take miners into consideration?

[wind spade]

power eaten by miners

[high wave]

ah ok

[bleak coral]

right cause the solve is essentially: most stuff weighted for points with minimum power to keep everything on

[high wave]

well this is the power for all of just the mines

[wind spade]

that's useless information to me. We may assume that all miners are running at 100%, but that may not always be the case, so I can't just hardcode a power amount into the solver

[high wave]

well you kinda can because even if you arent using the resources to make an advanced product you can just sink the ingots

no matter what if there are resources not being used then you are not at the max

[bleak coral]

except he's making a solver for variable scenarios, not just the specific max points of the map one we're talking about

[wind spade]

what if user requests "max points with just iron ore" or "max points while power is limited to 400 MW" or something like that?

[high wave]

im talking about just max points

[wind spade]

yeah and I was answering to Lund who asked if I'm adding sink points to my tool 🙂

[bleak coral]

also feel like this a good time to mention I appreciate all the work you put into the tool

[fresh geyser]

greeny i just wanted to know sorry if someone else you that before but is there a way to put 2 different purity of node in a calculation like iron are pure node but the copper are normal node for exemple

maybe i miss something evident but english not my first language

[glacial hemlock]

ore node purity is not calculated in u4 calculator, you can use excel to try it out.

[fresh geyser]

ok

[wind spade]

it just shows you how many ore it needs, it's up to you to figure out how many nodes and which miners you want to use

it would be pretty hard thing to do in the tool tbh

[fresh geyser]

yeah thank you im having a headache trying to figure if going for compacted coal is effecient with normal sulfur node and pure coal node

2 of each

i could probably push it at the maximum of the sulfur i guess

Good old pen and paper lol

[topaz hedge]

Miner purity only changes the rate the miners produce

[real sandal]

If you overclock each coal gen to exactly 246.2%, you can just divide the coal in two. The two coal gens would use 180 m3 of water combined.

[toxic flax]

What's your go-to setup for a pure oil when you want maximum fuel output?

[wind spade]

alt heavy oil residue + diluted fuel

[topaz hedge]

at that point they could OC the miner to 200% and have 120 coal/min for 8 gens.. but 60/min will power 4..

[versed violet]

Having ran my gens at compacted coal for a while, I think its less hassle to just find another coal node than build assemblers for compacted coal. Sulfur is also useful later in more advanced recipes

(also: overclock you cool miners to the roof)

[real sandal]

If you have 120 coal per minute going into 4 coal gens that are overclocked to 246.2%, it saves a lot of space.

[bleak coral]

Compacted coal also actually produces less net power compared to getting just more coal because of the assemblers. e.g. 120 coal + 120 sulfur makes less net power than 240 coal does

[versed violet]

you have to consider that sulfur is padding the coal supply, thus making 120 coal + 120 sulfur instead of 120 coal

[bleak coral]

Generators at ~145.3517% clockspeed could be neat, roughly 33% more production/consumption. So each would need 60 water per minute and 20 coal per minute. Would let you just do 1:2 at 100% clock for water extractors, only take 1 shard each, and 20 is a nice number for the coal too.

[fresh geyser]

compacting coal done 🙂

[high wave]

just use 100x as many assemblers at 1% efficiency

[bleak coral]

but coal is more than 4.5x as common, so that's a bad idea to pad the way more common material's supply with a rare one

there's like one place in grasslands where that makes sense, but I'd rather encourage people to just go find more coal and save the sulfur for other stuff

[real sandal]

So, you're taking 120 coal, and dividing it into 6 coal gens? Interesting.

[high wave]

ok so i did the math and this actually takes more power lol

[fresh geyser]

probably slime because of rounding

[bleak coral]

just a random thought I had just now, haven't done it myself

[high wave]

not because rounding

because clockspeed calculation is strange

(energy usage) = (initial energy usage) × (clock speed / 100)^0.6

[fresh geyser]

interresting

[high wave]

meaning this setup actually would take 908.5 mw

[bleak coral]

?

that's not right, it would take less

[fresh geyser]

ouch

[high wave]

my math may be very wrong because i may be bad at typing but idk

[bleak coral]

it is very wrong, I've done a 1% machine test before

[high wave]

=(15)*((1/100)^0.6)

thats the equation i got

because ye

[bleak coral]

it's to the 1.6 not 0.6, that's the energy per item equation not power

[high wave]

breh

alright ig i just cant read

[bleak coral]

960 assemblers at 1% clockspeed would be about 9MW

[high wave]

ok so in theory if you made 9600000 assemblers all at 0.0001% speed

it would be 0.036 mw

[bleak coral]

I mean if you could build that many lol

[topaz hedge]

We can have less than 1% clock now? I don't think

[bleak coral]

yup, we can 4 decimals places so sure

[real sandal]

you're idea for the coal gens would half the cost of shards, but use 50% more space than what I use.

[topaz hedge]

yes we can. lol

[bleak coral]

true, I honestly was just trying to get a 1:2 extractor to coal gen setup with 100% clockspeed extractors

[high wave]

or you could just not use shards in coal gens lol

[topaz hedge]

Compaining about the space coal gens use.. Imma see myself out now. Ya'll have fun XD

[versed violet]

wait till you see nuke plants. those take space

[fresh geyser]

im about to switch to oil i want to max out the coal and sulfur i have because i dont use the sulfur for anything else and the reactor would downclock themself if they dont use max power (if its work like before) so i will have a overstock of sulfur in a countainer

[versed violet]

they do not downclock automatically [sad trombone]

[fresh geyser]

ok because before the coal generator was burning less

if not maxed out

[versed violet]

no longer does that, hail U4

[fresh geyser]

ok ty thats why i put the ()

[bronze silo]

hey guys, I have all my games installed on an external 6tb Sata drive ... if I was to move Satisfactory to my main m.2 drive would it improve the save game lag?

[bleak coral]

It's already saving to the C drive, and you can't change that. Also most of the lag is serializing the data not saving the file. The file is only a few MBs big anyway.

[fresh geyser]

wait me its save on my L drive because steam game are there

[sand garnet]

Savegames arent in game directory

[fresh geyser]

there is a way to have 2 folder of steam

ho ok

[sand garnet]

Theyre in a separate folder in localappdata

#faq has the path

[fresh geyser]

hmmm

because its could be cpu process too the lag during the save

[sand garnet]

Savegame lag is because gamethread needs to pause afaik

Cant save a currently changing gamestate

[fresh geyser]

so i can run with my compacted coal generator setup 33.6 generator on only one line nice 😄

240 compacted coal/minutes

i just need the water to run them now

[bronze silo]

thanks for your input guys ,,, I will leave it where it is 🙂

[toxic flax]

How many hard drives are required for unlocking all alternate recipes?

[knotty yarrow]

89

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Hard_Drive

[stable scarab]

Quick question: what's the minimum size of foundations necessary to place the space elevator on?

[fresh geyser]

so without alt recipe residual rubber and plastic recipe produce more fuel then using the heavy oil residue

for the same rubber and plastic production / min

[thorn pollen]

Dimensions (Area 2916 m2)
Width 54 m
Length 54 m
Height 118 m @stable scarab

[fresh geyser]

should i go hunt for alt recipe before doing some plastic oil rubber production :/

[thorn pollen]

its up to u

[wind spade]

you should always hunt alt recipes before you build anything

[fresh geyser]

because for 720 oil/min the max i can get is 480 fuel/min 72rubber/min 72 plastic/min without alt. oh ok i will take a look at the easy one

[wind spade]

with alts you can make 9 rubber or plastic out of 3 oil

or 8 fuel out of 3 oil

[thorn pollen]

@wind spade question for you with your calc its base or overclocked if you know what i mean

[wind spade]

what do you mean by that?

[thorn pollen]

im confused if that is base on the limits on the map

[fresh geyser]

which alt?

[wind spade]

ah, those are max pipes/belts, overclocked

[wind spade]

alt heavy oil residue, diluted fuel, recycled rubber, recycled plastic

[fresh geyser]

ok ty

ok i will need to skip diluted fuel for now because i dont have blender unlock

[wind spade]

then go for diluted packaged fuel instead, it's the same efficiency, just slightly more complicated

[fresh geyser]

tyvm

ok the old meta 😄

[thorn pollen]

https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=WUWEFImqpGuEPIzxM7PY @wind spade dont judge

is there better alts?

[topaz hedge]

For turbofuel, no, those are the ones you want to use.

[sacred pilot]

UGH, ok I need math help

[fierce ruin]

you know you can post images in here and in #old-questions-and-help if it pertains to a question

[sacred pilot]

Posted my build in #screenshots . I have 2 blenders doubled to pump out 400 fuel/min and am feeding it up into 32 100% fuel generators, with the 2 at the endcaps running at 59% for a total usage that should be about 1.333 what a normal fuel gen needs, to use the even 400. yet a bunch at the end are all flickering

ahhh it was greyed out because of slow mode, my bad

33.3333 fuel gens should run off a 400 line, so 32 and 2 at 59% clock should do it perfectly

yet the flickering

[fierce ruin]

why 59%

[obtuse torrent]

had this problem with my long lines too ...

[sacred pilot]

the math works out such that the burn rate is 8 fuel/min

fuel plants drive me fuckin' nuts. the math never seems to work!

[obtuse torrent]

corrected it ...mostly by adding pumps ...eventhough lines are level (never going up or down) the pumps were providing about 2M of headlift...

a couple on the very end (of a 50 gen line ) never run at 100%

but get close 95-98% run efficiency

[sacred pilot]

My next 4 setups are all going to be a full 25 plants so I want to be sure this works. I have 2 pure 600 lines ready

[wind spade]

do you have the pipes looped? that usually helps with throughput

[sacred pilot]

I do not. Do you mean just at the ends?

[fierce ruin]

#math-and-meta message

[wind spade]

every pipe should be looped so that the fluid can cycle

[fierce ruin]

although it's odd that he's at blenders and using fuel instead of turbofuel

[wind spade]

also for more exact numbers you want the last two to be at 59.0311 and 59.0312% OC

[sacred pilot]

diluted fuel and not wanting to freaking deal with sulfur for this build

[wind spade]

well diluted fuel produces normal fuel 🤷‍♂️

[sacred pilot]

just saying why I didn't want to mess with turbofuel

I'll try looping, will require some thought

[wind spade]

just connect end to the beginning 🤷‍♂️

you can put the pipe slightly above the existing one

[fierce ruin]

I got 58.2649%

[wind spade]

he wants 133.3333% of power production, with formula 100 * [OC/100] ^ (1/1.3), for your number it results in 65.999987% of power production, so roughly 66%, which together adds to 132%, with my numbers you get the missing 1.3333% 😛

[fierce ruin]

he got me in the second half XD

recalculated got the same numbers

[wind spade]

as me? or as your previous calc?

[fierce ruin]

(133.3333333/(2*100))=OC

or pd in this pic

[wind spade]

uhh, that's not how you calculate it tho

you want 133.3333% of efficiency, not 133.3333% of OC

[fierce ruin]

rounds to 59.0312 but may prefer 59.0311 for the buffer

[wind spade]

ah nvm I'm retarded

and blind

[wind spade]

if you done one of each, it's still slightly smaller than the exact number, so you should™️ be fine

[thorn pollen]

@topaz hedge thanks wolf

[sacred pilot]

does not appear to have helped

[fierce ruin]

maybe make shorter manifolds?

check your #'s/production line

[sacred pilot]

why is it this highlighted pipe is moving at 140+ and both pipes after it at nearly 0

fluids make it so hard to check your lines for faults

[fierce ruin]

the pipes would be empty if they were feeding gens w/o being fed fuel

may just be the ui fooling ya

[sacred pilot]

ahem

[fierce ruin]

this is assuming there are no headlift issues and that fuel output = fuel used

[sacred pilot]

I'm an idiot

Checking the production line did it. I was hooking two of my blenders to single water extractors that were overclocked for simplicity, and had forgotten to OC one of them

[fierce ruin]

SCIM can show you the input/output #'s if you mass select stuff

not entirely sure how it works but it's something that may help as a last resort

[viscid shadow]

Given the supply of Iron, Copper, and Caterium. Would it be best to make Fused quickwire, Iron wire, and copper sheets for maximum resources needed?

[fierce ruin]

for minimum resources needed?

yes those are all good recipes

[viscid shadow]

There are 70380 iron, 28860 copper, and 11040 caterium to make stuff out of

[fierce ruin]

greeny's calc already does those optimizations on x/min mode

[viscid shadow]

so picking those 3 recipes would maximize needed materials

[fierce ruin]

depends on what you make

[viscid shadow]

does it?

is there a need to use all that iron as iron?

[fierce ruin]

you wouldn't use quickwire for wire (because you can't)

[viscid shadow]

what?

[fierce ruin]

it all depends on your end goal

[viscid shadow]

maximizing resources

[fierce ruin]

there are two things to consider when weighting resources how much is there and how much do you use

"max resources" is too general of a term

are you going for a certain x/min of an item

it becomes easier to decide what is worth more when you have that in mind

normally you wouldn't use copper for iron (as it's almost never worth it) but if you were going for max iron ingots then the use of copper is only for iron alloy IN THAT ONE CASE

in that scenario iron would be used more and the use (wieght) of other resources would plummet

greeny's calc weights based on how much resource there is not how much is used

[viscid shadow]

it's too easy to say I want to make as many of xxx item as I can. So I'm talking about resources in general. Obviously any time you add free water that is a plus. But I doubt the calculator is ready for the, I want an even amount of all items, tell me the formula

[fierce ruin]

speaking based on how greeny's calc works it weights each resource and then multiplies by amount used

[viscid shadow]

i mean i can do that in excel

[fierce ruin]

[all resources amount]/[resource amount] = wieght

weight * amount used = cost

add for each resource used

[viscid shadow]

I'll just go with my assumption then

if I end up running out of iron, ill be very supprised

[fierce ruin]

for example

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/File:Iron_Ingot_alts.png

[viscid shadow]

yes I already said that water was the best method

[fierce ruin]

you can find the cost of each recipe by using the method I described above

[fierce ruin]

didn't you ask to know why?

[viscid shadow]

no i asked if my assumption on using those 3 recipes is correct, that you don't need copper wire in such quantities that you can't just use iron

[fierce ruin]

generally yes that is a good idea

[viscid shadow]

k ty

[fierce ruin]

but hopefully now you can see why (iron has a low cost weight)

but you knew that 😉

me being 🤏 🧠 there

[oblique hollow]

late reply, but if you have pipe networks that have a loop, some pipe sections simply cant handle the math and show 0, but its not really 0

if the pipe has some liquid inside but shows 0 flow, check another pipe segment

the other connected pipes almost always have flow

buuut i guess that wasnt the real issue

soooo i guess this is now a general FYI for anyone interested who sometimes sees 0 m³/min flow

[topaz hedge]

^ This is definitely a thing. as long as your machines are good and the pipes are full. it's just a visual bug. The pipe flow meter is laughably inaccurate in general and shouldn't be trusted (unless you build a "flow stabilizer")

[oblique hollow]

Equalizer or Interpolator, ye c:

[frosty owl]

Coughs in using the buffer split rather than looping

[warm lagoon]

most effienct way to turn crude oil into fuel? without blenders

[oblique hollow]

HOR alt recipe

and then residual fuel

or, if you have it, diluted packaged fuel

[warm lagoon]

oh ok

so basically

this

[oblique hollow]

yea

[wind spade]

Even better is to get recycled plastic and rubber

[oblique hollow]

that uses the fuel itself though to make rubber and plastic

so if the desire is JUST fuel output, do residual plastic and rubber

[wind spade]

But is much more efficient

[warm lagoon]

i want powerrrr

[oblique hollow]

uses more fuel. what if i dont want rubber and plastic

[warm lagoon]

160 rubber and or plastic would be enough for me

[wind spade]

Well I was assuming the plastic and rubber are also required

[oblique hollow]

i guess its just dealing with the resin

[topaz hedge]

Yup that's the way sky. If you could hold off.. the blender diluted fuel alt is more power efficient..

[oblique hollow]

probably not

just go for diluted packaged fuel

[warm lagoon]

im at a very big need for power atm lol

[wind spade]

Isn't it the same efficiency?

[warm lagoon]

cant make any new things without it

[topaz hedge]

And turbofuel blend... Yum. Otherwise.. packaged diluted is fuel

And it's what we did before u4 lol

[warm lagoon]

i got the one for packaged turbofuel

[topaz hedge]

Greeny, it's the same recipe, but blenders are more power efficient because fewer machines.. tbh it's not a huge difference between the two

[oblique hollow]

packaged turbo? i dont think so

unless you mean just the packager recipe

[warm lagoon]

also got one of these

dunno which one out of the top of my head

[oblique hollow]

blenders arent more power efficient...... only if you underclock them

[oblique hollow]

it better not be the middle one

[warm lagoon]

i think i got the normal turbofuel one

[topaz hedge]

Are you sure? I ran the numbers on greenies calc and it was a couple hundred MW less :3

Might've been using turboblend vs normal turbo.. I dunno

[oblique hollow]

i did run them manually once.... i came to a slight lead for refineries. just a few MW

but once you onderclock blenders they lead again

[topaz hedge]

So we can say it's more or less the same

[oblique hollow]

they are about equal

its just blended is easier to deal with

[swift robin]

and blenders look cool

[oblique hollow]

yes

[topaz hedge]

Normal turbofuel is what you want sky.. compacted coal + fuel = turbofuel

It will turn 300 oil into 21.6GW

And you can put doggos in them blenders too

[swift robin]

i like how they make it easy to produce rubber and plastic while making enough power from residual fuel to make the whole operation cost nothing on ur power grid

so u dont have to make a new power plant if u dont want to for ur oil

[indigo scroll]

Hi

I am new

Ummmm

[topaz hedge]

You can do the same with coke and coal gens too. My setup uses 600 oil into 400 plastic/rubber +900 coke for 36 coal gens... Produces about 50% more power than. It uses

[swift robin]

nice

[topaz hedge]

Welcome

Its nothing majorly impressive, but producing extra power is a pretty nice midgame bonus

[swift robin]

yeah you sacrifice some rubber and plastic output but it's totally worth it if you dont want to make another power station right then

[topaz hedge]

Yup, your losing quite a bit of oil on it tbh. But recycled loops consume loads of power, and they don't produce any

[reef belfry]

It baffles me how efficient steel ingots become with pure iron ingot and solid steel ingot , it goes from 1 iron ore -> 1 steel ingot, to about 1 iron ore -> 2.77 steel ingot plus 33% less coal usage

[quick pawn]

That, is baffling, I am baffled.

[fierce ruin]

Have you seen the bubbly chocolate?
Something like that must be happening, the water evaporates in the processing and produces bubbles.

But how do you get 12 times as many screws from steel as from iron?
They must be hollow.

[wind spade]

less material waste from processing 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

Anyone using this setup? I cant think on how to put down and belt this properly xD

[wind spade]

manifolds ftw
what exactly are you struggling with?

[fierce ruin]

The looping part where you loop stuff back to produce more

[wind spade]

yeah, just loop the belts back

merge the rubber from residual rubber and recycled rubber together, prioritise output to recycled plastic setup, overflow rest to storage

[fierce ruin]

Thankss also I am trying it to make it clean as possible xD

[glacial hemlock]

no, the turbo blend is really much more power efficient.

saving up to 18% energy.

[frosty pawn]

also turbo blend makes an amount that is easily divisible by 4.5 which is how much each fuel generator will burn

[frosty pawn]

do the fuel first, make sure its all good. then turn polymer resin into rubber (recycled rubber uses less polymer than recycled plastic) then use some fuel to turn all that rubber into plastic, then turn it back into rubber and back into plastic etc etc until you have no more fuel

each time you use one of the recycled alts, you double the amount of rubber or plastic. you can split the output of a refinery so that half goes forward into the next row of refineries and half goes off to the side, all the side outputs can add up like a manifold to go into another row of refineries

[fierce ruin]

Thanks for the tip!!

[chilly elm]

how should i recombine 8 belts of 550 items into 6 belts/full mk 5 belts??
Bining method or normal merger using overflow

[oblique hollow]

sounds like a compressor....

god i hate those

[frosty pawn]

personally, i would do overflow. i would make the 2nd belt merge into 1st belt and overflow forward, 3rd belt merge into 2nd belt and overflow forward etc etc

but i generally avoid these situations to begin with

[bleak coral]

agreed on all counts to that^
what are you doing with them?

[chilly elm]

quickwires🥲

[frosty pawn]

oh quickwire lol

[bleak coral]

I mean why does it need to be 6 belts instead of 8? Full mk5 are a bit unstable if you don't have god-like stable FPS anyway

[frosty pawn]

i have quickwire go into a train station and overflow into sink. i had to make like 6 sinks for 1 pure caterium node

[chilly elm]

caterium ingot + copper ingot 250% clocked

[bronze silo]

6 sinks, lol

[oblique hollow]

you dont need to combine the belts tho

[chilly elm]

i have 6 rows of manufatrers which need exactly needs780 item pm

[bleak coral]

split the last two belts into 3 belts each and do an insertion manifold

[frosty pawn]

its generally better not to rely on a completely full a belt so that you dont get timing issues. it's not a problem on mk1 belts but as the belt gets faster and if your fps drops you might have inconsistent belt throughput

[chilly elm]

😂 😂