#math-and-meta

1 messages · Page 528 of 1

vast jungle
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yes, that sounds nice...

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Pipes on the other side can get out of hands 😉

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e.g. with "Steel Rotor" or "Encased Industrial Pipe"

old ember
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My project plan has 36 assemblers for AI Limiters - I may have gone overboard.

vast jungle
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thank God for the Hoverpack

oblique hollow
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heres a handy Turbofuel chart

unknown.png
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surprisingly, normal and heavy turbo are one of the worst recipes

old ember
vast jungle
oblique hollow
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no diluted

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but it does consider the HOR alt

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not using the HOR alt is suicide

vast jungle
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WT (Wasteful Turbofuel) ?

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ok... I think DT and DTB are both really nice...both my powerplants are D(P)T... but maybe I would have built at least one of them as DTB now

oblique hollow
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i could see what it would look like if we go with Direct Oil to Fuel

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lets see....

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yikes, 180 Oil / min

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thats even worse

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that just proves that the normal fuel recipe is the worst one

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but its also the simplest

vast jungle
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180 Oil/min... compared to 45 and 75... LOL

oblique hollow
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13 machines..... not great either

vast jungle
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I wonder if anyone every built Turbo-Heavy Fuel...

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and did not regret it later

old ember
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I've never built turbo heavy fuel. I always go coal -> diluted fuel -> diluted turbo fuel. I'm not even sure that straight up diluted fuel isn't better the turbo heavy.

oblique hollow
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here, updated

unknown.png
oblique hollow
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its really third place when it comes to oil.
But oof, sulfur and coal...

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the exclusion of coal here is really great

vast jungle
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unless you need insane amounts of rubber/plastic, DTB is a very good choice

oblique hollow
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DTB is new king

oblique hollow
vast jungle
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sure, the rest is just "they exist... in another universe" 😉

oblique hollow
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only 66% more than DT

vast jungle
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hmm... so you table is "per 10/3 GW"...

signal matrix
#

Can anyone direct me to a good picture of a setup for Getting to Phase 3

vast jungle
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Phase 3 HUB?

oblique hollow
signal matrix
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No, Phase 3 elevator

oblique hollow
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haha, good luck, thats no "nice and simple setup"

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its entire factory sites

vast jungle
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I hooked up my "Space Elevator Factory" directly to my central storage area... with 12 belts... (and need another 8 for the Tier 7/8 parts)

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space-elevator parts are a mess in terms of input

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and you don't need them for long (except the Tier 8 ones ^^)

oblique hollow
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they need stuff from everywhere

vast jungle
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I spent more time building the factory than it took to generate the Phase 3 parts

hexed lintel
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thart's true, im in phase 2 and its a pain

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can we suggest to the devs that take a closer look at reducing the elevator requirements per fase?

vast jungle
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I don't think so... its still very easy

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only Phase 4 is really time-consuming

bleak coral
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there's people asking for the opposite lol

hexed lintel
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wait, there are four?

vast jungle
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which means the super-cool spaceelevator is meaningless for most of the game

hexed lintel
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☣️

bleak coral
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personally I'd like a harder phase 1 & 2, but probably not for the first playthrough

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can always hop on the QA site and give your opinion though

shadow prairieBOT
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You can send Questions, Feedback, Suggestions, and Bug Reports at https://questions.satisfactorygame.com

<3 @bleak coral

Satisfactory Q&A

The Satisfactory Questions and Answers website is a place to report bugs, suggest features, and look for fixes to any issues you run into.

hexed lintel
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what if they made it so the difficulty not only depends omn the biome you pick? 👀

vast jungle
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it doesn't depend on your start biome

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because they are all on the same map

hexed lintel
hexed lintel
frosty owl
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Who said there won't be more phases and uses for the space elevator? ;)

vast jungle
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no, but the space elevator difficulty is not really that different... you can just "improvise" an assembly-line for phase 1/2...

bleak coral
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they've talked about adding difficulty modes like adding creative mode, but as a 1.0 or post that thing

vast jungle
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and when you want to finalize phase 3, you should have unlocked options for long-range travel anyways

hexed lintel
oblique hollow
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oooh, with DTB, 300 oil = 400 turbo

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aaaagh, 89 fuel gens tired_jace

vast jungle
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100 Fuel Gens is not that bad... just 10x10...

oblique hollow
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thats the most massive structure id ever set up

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the fuel production is rather small, good enough

vast jungle
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I built a 22.5 GW D(P)T powerplant a few weeks ago... 162 generators

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(3 floors, each with 54 gens)

frosty owl
oblique hollow
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well, i do have another node nearby....

frosty owl
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That's 100 gens and 10 TF blenders, clean numbers (not so clean on the oil side, but whatev)

oblique hollow
old ember
vast jungle
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the pyramid style is a nice idea

old ember
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6 floors, 680 fuel gens, 280 refineries, 140 packagers, 100 assemblers - and a significant portion of may sanity.

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I started it in U3 so no blender diluted fuel.

vast jungle
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I put mine in a grey wall box to limit its effect on frame rates... not sure I was successful

old ember
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I deliberately built this in one corner of the map, away from an other area I plan to build in.

vast jungle
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I built mine in the Lake Swamp... easy accessible oil and nearby coal/sulfur... and a horrible laggy area 😐

old ember
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Gens and refineries don't seem to have that much impact on the frame rate though. Constructors seem to be the one that tank it.

old ember
vast jungle
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I just used half a train car full of nobelisk to clean up the area...

old ember
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This is the correct method.

vast jungle
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I never regretted automating Nobelisk... always having more than an ISC full of it is "relaxing"...

frosty owl
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Okay, here's a very convenient setup I stumbled upon with... Surprisingly nice numbers ^^ (for HMF, using pure iron, coated plates, bolted plates, bolted frames, flexible frames and steel screws ofc) Very easy to divide the production between plates/reinf plates/frames/HMF as, aside from the ingots, each have its own 1:1:1 array
Take 780 iron ore, split in 2. Feed to a row of 11 pure refineries and the 10/min overflow to a smelter
11 pure refineries make 715/min, plus the smelter (one smelter at 10/min splitting the output for the 2 rows) its a nice 720
Feed that to coated plates assemblers OC. Those normally take 50/min and make 75/min, but if you OC at 120, they take a terribly nice to balance 60/min (so 13 asses each refinery row) and make 90/min: just enough to feed a bolted reinforced plates! :D
And guess what! You can feed the reinf plates 1:2 to bolted frames! (I made it 1:1 due to space, frames assemblers at 200%)
And the final piece of magic... If you OC the manifacturers for HMF (flexible recipe) to make 4/min, those can be fed 2:1 or 1:1 by the bolted frames assemblers!
Such clean numbers feel so good... ||Tag people who may like steel screws: @vast jungle @bleak coral @topaz hedge ||

oblique hollow
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why @ me with this i only like pipe stuff simon_smile

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i dont even use the steel screw alt

frosty owl
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Away with you then! jacelul

old ember
oblique hollow
frosty owl
vast jungle
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Steel screw is nice when you just need a couple of hundred screws and need Steel parts in the factory anyways

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I would say its "copper alloy on steroids" if screws were not so... meh

frosty owl
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On the scale mentioned, it's about... 300 ingots/min worth of steel for steel beams ^^
Not too little... But considering how easy it is to make steel compared to making screws, I'm still happy with the tradeoff :D

vast jungle
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now I just want "Steel plate" (to produce Steel based iron plates) ^^

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and never deal with iron ingots again (after turning them into steel ingots)

frosty owl
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Bruhhh, those scale up so nicely!
Feed it 480 steel and you can set up 120 assemblers :jacelul:

wind spade
frosty owl
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I could make more machines to get the same output? I agree to that why_so_snutt
||I tag those I think would enjoy reading such a long-ass text about steel screws setup :P||

wind spade
frosty owl
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But why would I use less steel when I have over 2 mk5 belts worth of coal leftover even AFTER this project? rolljace (and as much if not more iron)

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For context, I'm spaghetting my way to end-game, this 28 HMF/min thing is the biggest thing there is in the save. Saving resources is the LAST of my concerns ^^

wind spade
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because why not do micro optimisations in resource consumption? that's what we do here, right? 😛

frosty owl
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Because why not find a way to reach your goal with the least effort and max FPS possible? rolljace

wind spade
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fps is not a resource 😄

frosty owl
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It's a very precious resource to me tired_jace

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You should totally add that to the tool jacelul

wind spade
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so when you put your factory in, it'll tell you how much ram you have to buy?

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and if you have to upgrade your CPU?

frosty owl
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One has to compile a list of hardware specs he has before making a factory plan, then the calculator spits out results based on your hardware, giving you the FPS reduction estimate with your specs LMAO

frosty owl
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(My oil is very close to iron anyway, just as much as coal)

errant wing
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I'm here thinking about how I should set up a modular frame machine with only tier 1 and 2 belts. I have good alternate recipes but I still end up with needing just under 270 ingots per minute

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I'm thinking bolted frames with cast screws

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oh and bolted iron plates

deep fern
fierce ruin
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flow control

deep fern
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can you explain?

fierce ruin
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it helps when you have high saturation of belts to make them each have equal flow

wind spade
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it's pretty much useless as you can just use what you have on the original belts

deep fern
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yeah that what i thought... so what a 3-to-3 belt balancer does?

fierce ruin
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but the picture there is a overflow system not a balencer

deep fern
wind spade
glacial hemlock
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A belt balancer, in the above cases, 3:3 balancer, balances belt from 3A, 3B, 3C to ABC, ABC, ABC, where 3A means the belt#1 and ABC means A+B+C

deep fern
glacial hemlock
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Look for page balancer

fierce ruin
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yes

wind spade
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idk 🤷‍♂️ but manifold is usually straightforward

fierce ruin
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literally

wind spade
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just repeat

--S--S-- ...
  |  |
  X  X
deep fern
glacial hemlock
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Yes, you can mix belt with that

wind spade
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mixed belts are bad tho

deep fern
deep fern
wind spade
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only relatively useful application is if you have a container where you dump items to sort to your storage

fierce ruin
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only really viable in spaghet temporary factories and storage

deep fern
glacial hemlock
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Unless splitter is more predictable, mixed belt is prone to errors. One possible usage of mixed belt is to simplify manufacturers based manifolds

elder shoal
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My main bus is a mixed 2 level belt. If one is overloaded the items are routed to the next line and in the future if needed I can easily add another line. The bus goes into a sorting system with a bunch of smart splitters.

wind spade
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main bus and mixed belts in one sentence? that's like the worst thing lol

elder shoal
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Haven't had any problems so far

fierce ruin
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they're a buss

deep fern
wind spade
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it's not about problems, it's about building something that's unnecessary complicated

deep fern
elder shoal
deep fern
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hmm having a mixed belt could make sense if I try to transport multiple type of few items from storage to factories and smart split them at the factory

quartz mason
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Hawe you a solution for effective coal generators? I have mk 2 miners and mk 3 belts

wind spade
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3 extractors, 8 gens

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120 coal

quartz mason
elder shoal
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I use programmable splitters to split off items that I need then use smart splitters to sort into inputs. Once the machines are full, overflow goes back to the bus

vast jungle
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2 mk1 pipes

wind spade
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extractor = water extractor wtf

quartz mason
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Uu sry

wind spade
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you're talking about a miner

quartz mason
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I misunderstood

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But I need to connect all extractors to one pipe network, yea?

wind spade
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  G  G  G  G
E-+--+--+--+
E-+
E-+--+--+--+
  G  G  G  G
elder shoal
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You can as long as the pipe can handle the flow rate

fierce ruin
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ideally 2 pipes

quartz mason
fierce ruin
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or at least make it so the flow rate < the limit

quartz mason
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I got about 10 generators and 5 exctractors and it is not effective so I was looking for a solition

elder shoal
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If you connected everything to just one Mk.1 pipe then that's the problem. Mk.1 pipe can only handle 300 cubic meters of liquid per minute. And you're producing 600 cubic meters per minute

mystic moon
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@proven sphinx you could probably do it either way

proven sphinx
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but they will eventually stack up ? since im making 4.1 to 20 NPP ?

proper mantle
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Ok so I have 180 coal ready for 12 coal generators. What’s the best way to divide it all?

oblique hollow
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huh, the inbetween numbers arent pretty, but the output is.
First time using greeny's tool for some actual verification

unknown.png
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@wind spade did people ever suggest a "move node along axis" function?

wind spade
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wdym

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like lock node to x/y?

oblique hollow
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moving nodes in straight lines, like, 90°, 0°, 45°

wind spade
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how would you implement that

oblique hollow
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when you grab and move a node, snap it to the nearest full degree

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preferably when you hold a key, like shift

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ms paint can do it with their lines too

wind spade
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hm

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will see if something like that is possible with the lib I use

oblique hollow
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you would have to grab the coordinates of the node when the user first grabs it, use that as a reference point for calculating the angle

wind spade
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well the drag'n'drop is just enabled by a config setting, I haven't written the code

oblique hollow
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ah, ok

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the best thing you could do otherwise is a toggleable grid

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cause that doesnt need this relative angle calculation

oblique blade
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If i make this recipe, which makes 45/min turbofuel, that means i can feed 10 fuel generators? if they burn approximately 5m3 fuel. right?

unknown.png
wind spade
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I kinda want to do big research about other libraries and find a better one if there's any

oblique hollow
loud heron
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So 10 exactly.

wind spade
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there's tons of stuff that can be improved in the visualisation

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I'm not happy with current state

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but there's also ongoing work on pretty much everything else, including a big rewrite

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so can't really focus on small visual things 😦

oblique hollow
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i see

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oooh i adjusted the numbers and now found a much cleaner setup for my purposes

loud heron
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The only thing I don't like about Satisfsctorytools is no way to choose pipe throughput

wind spade
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that's because it wouldn't change anything

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the tool doesn't tell you how many pipes do you need to build

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because that's up to you how you connect stuff

oblique hollow
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just use more pipes

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it doesnt give you belt speed either

loud heron
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I get that's it's just literally a "here's exactly what you need in terms of throughput"
But I get so lost on factory design

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I tried the satisfactory calculator one cause it has a more visualized factory design

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But it's also messy

wind spade
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well the point is that the tool doesn't really force you to any design

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like the calculator does

oblique hollow
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i like the node design of satisfactory toolsgreeny cause even if its messy at first i can easily adjust it to a much nicer to look at setup

wind spade
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there's pretty much infinite amount of possible designs that I could show in the visualisation

loud heron
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True, SC doesn't really like a factory design with more than like...20 machines lol

wind spade
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so I decided it's better to just show none

loud heron
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That's fair

oblique hollow
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the junctions and stuff are really more logistic and less production

loud heron
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The good thing about ST is that you can visualize the graph as a set of compartmentalized factories

oblique hollow
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and its up to us how we use the pipes and belts anyway

wind spade
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I got the "please show the full design" feature request a few times. The problem is that pretty much everybody expects the full design to look differently, so not really viable.

loud heron
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If 500 oil and coal go into a node, just make a factory that exemplifies the node.

oblique hollow
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I can easily work out which type of belt i need where and what pipe i should use

unknown.png
loud heron
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Kinda hard to show on a 2D graph

oblique hollow
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adding the extra junctions and stuff makes the cluttering even worse

loud heron
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And yet we do not have the power to make a 3D example of a perfectly neat and perfectly efficient factory.

wind spade
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perfectly efficient is any design that doesn't struggle with belt or pipe throughput

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(built according to the tools)

loud heron
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SC does its best to show you the perfect efficiency based on your conveyer and miner levels at hand

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Which...usually end up meaning a fuckton more splitters and mergers

wind spade
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but perfect efficiency is already achieved by having stuff calculated 😛

oblique hollow
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besides, whether you use x splitters or mergers or just do overflow really is up to you

loud heron
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In all honestly just thinking about a 1000+ item/m graph really hurts your brain as a midgame first timer

wind spade
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old version of my tool had the max belt setting, which only showed how many belts a certain arrow is, wonder if that would be enough for you

loud heron
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As a guy whos only ever made a factory the size of maybe two trainstations at best

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It's hard to visualize a factory system that is...several tens of times bigger.

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If only we had blueprint systems

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But I'm sure there's a mod for that.

wind spade
loud heron
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The main thing I suck at is "What if I don't have mk5s"

oblique hollow
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SCIM has the option of toggling the splitters and stuff but it doesnt help really

loud heron
#

How do I perfectly split MK4s to meet that ratio

wind spade
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yeah that's why I said there was a max belt setting 😉

oblique hollow
loud heron
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Pretty much i guess.

oblique hollow
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whether the user does balancer or overflow really is their cup of soup

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not greeny or anthor's

loud heron
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Too bad we don't have a ratio splitter

oblique hollow
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we might soon

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well, Soon ™️

loud heron
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I'd like to see the ratio splitter as part of the programmable splitter

wind spade
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pretty much any balancing or ratio splitting is useless in satisfactory

loud heron
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Or even the smart splitter if you wanna be really noob friendly.

oblique hollow
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optional at best

loud heron
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The problem I have with standard single belt with chained splitters is just how long it takes for the last machine to reach peak efficiency

wind spade
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not long

loud heron
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Since smelters and builders have internal stock

wind spade
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it's usually a few minutes

loud heron
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You say that but a single stack of frames is like 50 when I make like 2.5 a minute

wind spade
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and if you build factory by parts, by the time you built another part, the previous one is already filled

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or you can pre-fill the machines or disconnect them and wait for them to be filled

loud heron
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Again it's primarily just cause I've never built such a huge factory in my career in SF

wind spade
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yeah that's fine

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again, you can chose to use balancer and nobody is stopping you, but they are pretty much useless

loud heron
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Hard to imagine a factory that takes in more than a single manufacturers worth of computers

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I dunno what SF really needs in terms of QoL or cutting down spaghetti.

wind spade
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it's just the factory that makes single manufacturer, copied several times over 😛

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modular builds are the best

loud heron
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Which would be nice if it didn't take like 40 minutes to build over and over

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Let alone finding the nodes required to clone said factory.

wind spade
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do you use alt recipes?

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since with alts you usually have more than enough resources

loud heron
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I do if theyre more efficient.

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I try to stay away from the wikis inefficient ones

wind spade
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e.g. plastic/rubber loop, diluted fuel, etc.

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wiki has crap sorting of the recipes

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some of the most resource efficient recipes are in the "worst" tier

loud heron
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Realistically I could make computers with just iron, copper, and oil

wind spade
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my tools would show you the most resource efficient path to make any resource

loud heron
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But the wiki says caterium computers are more efficient

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Hence me waiting to find caterium nodes to make computers

wind spade
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well they are 🙂

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but you can use fused quickwire alt to drop down caterium usage

loud heron
oblique hollow
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odd, SC doesnt manage to display the recycled rubber / plastic feedback

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while greeny's does

wind spade
oblique hollow
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even though i selected the recycled recipes

loud heron
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And then I guess I can toggle them off if I can't access the resource it suggests.

oblique hollow
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does it choose based on the limit of all raw resources?

loud heron
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I'm guessing his tool just simply chooses the recipe based on minimum resource input possible

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If it takes 1000 items to make a computer versus 1200, it'll go for the former.

wind spade
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you can then disable resources/recipes you don't want to use

oblique hollow
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so...... do you run math on "oh, sulfur is rather limited, so i choose the most sulfur efficient recipes"?

loud heron
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If only your tool had a button for "select all recipes at Tier 6 and lower" since I don't got blenders.

oblique hollow
#

aka a filter

wind spade
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well there's nothing like recipe tier 🙂

oblique hollow
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should i @ anthor to tell him his tool cant manage the recycled rubber and plastic?

oblique hollow
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"machines unlocked: refinery, packager, etc"

wind spade
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indeed

oblique hollow
#

look: no recycled rubber

unknown.png
loud heron
#

I was told packaging and unpackaging takes some good bit o power.

oblique hollow
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@pulsar stratus your tool seems to have a slight issue with recycled rubber and plastic both being active at once

loud heron
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Not that I glanced at the packager power costs lol

wind spade
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yeah I reported it to him a while back

loud heron
#

So ST can happily suggest a factory for plastic and rubber that uses both the recycled Alts?

oblique hollow
wind spade
loud heron
#

See you say 10MW is nothing

wind spade
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it uses completely different algorithm to calculate

loud heron
#

Then I remember I have like 200 street lamps across the map.

oblique hollow
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200 MW

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xd

bleak coral
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Packaging and transporting is always more power/space than just transporting as a liquid, except maybe nitrogen cause that compresses instead of being 1:1.

loud heron
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I only got 2000MW of power aight xD

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It took a better half of an hour to figure out a coal plant

oblique hollow
#

well then build more!

bleak coral
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So it's not efficient, but if you want to do solids instead of fluids it's there and not prohibitively expensive IMO.

loud heron
#

I'm always super frustrated cause like I see a coal and iron node together and I'm torn between turning the coal into power or steel

oblique hollow
#

lets hope you can managge fuel once you got that

loud heron
#

How do I choose what to make next aaaa

oblique hollow
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Power is a priority

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always

muted crypt
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hence why I've basically halted most production just to make a power plant

loud heron
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I'm guessing once I get this 267 Fuel generator facility up and running for GWs of power, I don't need to use coal gens anymore do I.

oblique hollow
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nnope

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267? thats 3204 fuel / min

loud heron
#

I also just realized I'm sitting on a pure sulfur node that's making only nobelisks and rifle ammo, is this a waste of the pure sulfur node?

bleak coral
#

Coal gens are shit all things considered, but that's fine since their job is just to be the first automated power

oblique hollow
loud heron
#

I mean I got turbofuel

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Just not blenders

oblique hollow
#

well then make turbo

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you dont need blenders

loud heron
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The problem is said pure sulfur node is so far awaaaay

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From the nearest oil node.

oblique hollow
muted crypt
#

I prefer diluted turbo blend

loud heron
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How do I read this spreadsheet P

oblique hollow
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and the list goes downward with recipes

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this is all per 100 turbofuel

loud heron
#

I'm guessing the best and worst mean which recipe is best to conserve X resource?

oblique hollow
#

best for oil is Diluted Fuel + Turbo

loud heron
#

Fair...

oblique hollow
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hence "Diluted Turbo"

loud heron
#

So I've finished all the tech for Tier5-6, should I prepare power first or start making space elevator parts?

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Not sure how much infrastructure I need to use a blender.

oblique hollow
#

you better set up your power so you can even handle the production of the parts

loud heron
#

Gotcha.

oblique hollow
#

always power first

loud heron
#

Just never sure how much power I need.

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...I'm guessing ST will also tell you lol

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Based on your factory specs

muted crypt
#

satisfactorytools is a bit awkward with how it displays power

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it's fine until you introduce clock speed adjustments

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it'll list a total of X machines but it adds up the clock speed decimals

wind spade
#

well you can't change clockspeed for now

muted crypt
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right

wind spade
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and no, it calculates the machines at given clockspeed

muted crypt
#

it lists 9.15343 refineries total

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but if you count up each node it sums up to like 14

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if you prefer to only underclock, anyway

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so like 1.57 refineries making pure copper is 2 refineries, not 1

wind spade
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well yeah, it's not ideal 🤔

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but it's pretty much up to the user how he builds it

muted crypt
#

it counts 0.65 refineries making recycled plastic as only 0.65 refineries, not one at 65% clock... that plus 0.69 making petroleum coke, it sees 1.34 and calculates power accordingly when it will be much different (47.92 for one at 134% vs 31.62 for one at 65% and one at 69%)

muted crypt
wind spade
#

well default calculation is rounded up machines

#

so it's correct

#

technically

muted crypt
#

rounded up as in to the nearest whole number?

wind spade
#

yeah

muted crypt
#

the power list is showing me a decimal count for refineries that is much lower than where it should be, even if you count each node separately and assume clocking up to 250% before moving on to another machine, that's 12 different machines vs the 9.15343 it shows me here

#

I guess that's why I'm confused

wind spade
#

if I sum refineries in your shared production line, I get ~9.15 refineries, which is what is in the power production thingy

muted crypt
loud heron
#

What even is the clock speed to power consumption curve?

#

It's clearly exponential

muted crypt
#

[normal power consumption] * ([clock speed] / 100)^1.6

loud heron
#

Ah 1.6

#

Seems a lil aggressive.

wind spade
#

well again, it's how I calculate it. I'm assuming all buildings are built at 100% OC, average usage is what would be average power consumption (which is correct), max usage is what would be if all of them would run at the same time

loud heron
#

Imagine you overclock your 95W CPU from 4 GHz to 8GHz on LN and your wattage is now 300W something.

wind spade
loud heron
#

Was that just too easy?

wind spade
#

that would give it no disadvantage

#

since building two buildings would be the same as overclocking one to 200%

loud heron
#

I feel like that would be fine if only because making smaller factories means less performance hit

#

That and finding slugs is already an adventure.

wind spade
#

performance of the game can be improved

#

and slugs can be "generated" for free

loud heron
#

By what, letting your lizard dog idle?

wind spade
#

yeah

loud heron
#

Doesn't that take forever.

wind spade
#

not really

loud heron
#

And potentially kill you.

wind spade
#

not really 😄

muted crypt
#

one unit of uranium waste isn't radioactive enough to kill you rapidly, you can safely transport it several meters away without a hazmat suit

bleak coral
wind spade
#

anyway, I think it's fine, it's a tradeoff like everything else, you want less buildings, you need more power 😉

wind spade
#

the build uses (11.32/13)*100 % of power of those 13 machines

#

on average

bleak coral
#

and is the max for 13 machines or 12?

wind spade
#

13

bleak coral
#

oh gotcha

wind spade
#

max is the peak you can get from the setup (all machines running at the same time), the average is what you'll be consuming on average, which are two important variables imo.

bleak coral
#

the misunderstanding was, for me at least, I didn't realize it was calculating that way cause the only number I can see is the summed up number

wind spade
#

yeah 🤷‍♂️

bleak coral
#

maybe list total machines too?

wind spade
#

it's proof of concept power display, will be definitely updated anyway

bleak coral
#

kk

wind spade
#

point is, it depends on user how many machines they build

#

so until I implement overclocking, I'll keep it this way due to lack of better solution

bleak coral
#

yeah it's always going to be a rough estimate until you provide a bunch of option for people to choose. and even then you'll have people like me who add extra machines and mess with clockspeeds in ways to fit logistics which can't be predicted

muted crypt
#

yeah because you're weird /s

bleak coral
#

I was just worried for a minute it wasn't working to the methodology you chose

bleak coral
wind spade
#

I think it works pretty well and is decently accurate

loud heron
#

My main problem with Overclocking is nobody uses it except on miners

#

Or extractors.

bleak coral
#

No one here, I think it's more of a casual thing to do. People who don't plan out 100% efficient setups and just get stuff working.

loud heron
#

It seems like the game is punishing you for wanting to use slugs, rather than providing you with an advantage for going out of your way to explore the map

bleak coral
#

Still a late game way to make it better would be nice, like if you could apply an overclock to a group of machines instead of just one.

#

Like a machine that takes slugs and provides an overclock for some power, but isn't as bad as overclocking those machines individually in either power or slug cost.

oblique isle
#

SO a machine that turns slugs into power?

wind spade
#

I have tons of ideas to make the game slightly more balanced and I want to eventually implement them to a mod

loud heron
muted crypt
loud heron
#

That Coffee could optimize further?

bleak coral
wind spade
# loud heron What does this imply?

that they don't want to balance the game based on current performance, since they can improve performance of the game and therefore break the balance they did

muted crypt
#

tl;dr you put modules in them (specifically speed modules, there are 3 kinds) and they apply an area of effect of the modules put inside them, but at half the strength that the module would have if you put it directly in the machine

loud heron
#

The game already runs pretty well on a 3080, but my concern is just eventually super scaling your factories will multiply render and CPU demand

bleak coral
#

runs pretty well on a 3080
simon_smile

muted crypt
#

when you get to later in the game, people do shit like this with the beacons just to make singular machines run as fast as possible.

dzisuluym5031.png
steady ridge
bleak coral
#

min spec is a GTX 770, sure they could push that up a little bit but they clearly are wanting to make it work on pretty low end cards

steady ridge
bleak coral
#

nah this game will never run well on integrated graphics, if it does it's an accident

steady ridge
#

“There are no accidents” - Oogway

#

I think that they should replace the biomass burners on the hub with something like solar panels because the biomass burners are virtually useless later on

#

Maybe I’m alone in this, but I’m not usually making biofuel to supply them

bleak coral
#

they need to be burners for the tutorial

steady ridge
#

My bad I left out the part of my message where I say on higher tier hubs

#

They work at the start but for me they’re useless later on

loud heron
#

Clearly we just make the hub run on a tiny artificial sun

#

That makes free 100MW of power

#

And MAM is like "See this shit, this is waiting for you in tier 10"

quiet sable
supple mural
#

at that point just install a mod that gives you free resources

oblique hollow
#

i wonder if the bobingabout here is the same as the bob that made that mod

supple mural
#

probably is

#

preeeetty sure its the same one

muted crypt
#

sounds right

#

it is, just checked

gusty nexus
#

math check on 540 oil i'm pulling from an extractor node

#

feeding 18 refineries doing heavy oil residue

muted crypt
#

correct

#

540 / 18 = 30

gusty nexus
#

which feeds 15 blenders doing diluted fuel

#

and 9 refineries doing residual rubber, which feed 6 refineries doing recycled plastic

#

(i don't have recycled rubber yet)

#

all of this requires 15 water extractors

#

and generates 1260 fuel after the recycled plastic

#

which amounts to 180 plastic/minute

#

no, that's actually way more plastic than that, hold on - i'm feeding the 180 rubber/minute into recycled plastic, which makes 60/min

#

so if my math is right, the grand total is 540 plastic/minute and 1260 fuel/minute

#

which i am going to try to turn into a turbofuel plant, which is a whole other bunch of math

#

LMAO i need 56 refineries to turn all the fuel into turbo-fuel

#

and it will need 840 compacted coal/minute

#

which is 840 sulfur/minute

muted crypt
#

I prefer turbo blend fuel

#

less sulfur, less water and no coal compared to normal turbofuel

#

it's been working well for me building this :)

unknown-206.png
gusty nexus
#

the green bit is all the generators?

muted crypt
#

yes

#

each "band" is a 2x50 array

#

I need 8 "bands" to support all of the turbofuel (3600/min)

#

there are two "bands" shown in the picture

gusty nexus
#

lmao that requires so much space you have to build the whole thing in the ocean?

muted crypt
#

yes lol

gusty nexus
#

i was just building on a lake between the coal and the oil i'm pulilng from

muted crypt
#

right

#

blend fuel I like only because they added more oil to the map with a few wells

gusty nexus
#

what's the "ratio" as far as blend fuel goes, because i do have that recipe

muted crypt
# 
normal:
- 0.45 crude oil 
- 1.2 water
- 0.8 coal 
- 0.8 sulfur

heavy:
- 0.938 crude oil 
- 1 coal 
- 1 sulfur 

blend:
- 0.75 crude oil 
- 0.333 water 
- 0.5 sulfur
#

Raw breakdown for each unit of turbofuel with each recipe, assuming diluted fuel, HOR alt and compacted coal where necessary

gusty nexus
#

the fraction is the amount required to make one turbofuel?

muted crypt
#

each of these are per 1 unit of turbofuel yes

gusty nexus
#

and blend is the one that requires coke and sulfur, which means eating more HOR on top of the HOR the actual recipe needs AND whatever you're converting into fuel

muted crypt
#

yeah it uses 66% more oil compared to normal turbofuel

gusty nexus
#

but it needs way less water and saves a bit of sulfur

muted crypt
#

correct

#

they added 1800 oil (when taking into account clocking) to the map with U4 with the wells

#

but sulfur remained unchanged

gusty nexus
#

i guess that super oil area on the north side of the map is the best place to set up a rig like that?

muted crypt
#

that's where I am, yes lol

#

need 2700 crude oil, 1800 sulfur and 1200 water for the entire setup shown in my SCIM screenshot lol

#

it produces 1800 resin as well, but currently that's just going into sinks... will make use of it later

gusty nexus
#

resin?

#

do you mean polymer?

muted crypt
#

..polymer resin

#

that's the full item name....

#

1609 results for resin when searched across the whole server, vs 897 for polymer

#

I think resin is a more common name to use for it

#

they just both mean the same thing

gusty nexus
#

ooh, i think i got the math down

#

using the turbo blend

#

540 oil becomes 720 residue via HOR alt

oblique sandal
#

for oil. whats the most efficient way to make plastic/ rubber? is it polymer resin?

versed violet
gusty nexus
#

3 coke refineries eats 120 residue, makes 360/min

#

so polymer resin...indirectly

#

the most efficient way requires the alts for HOR, diluted fuel, recycled rubber, recycled plastic

#

3 blenders making diluted fuel, underclocked each at 80%, eats 120 residue to produce 240 total fuel

#

that leaves 480 residue, which is then funneled into the turbo blend fuel along with the 240 fuel and 360 coke, plus 360 sulfur, to produce turbofuel

#

requiring 16 refineries

#

which results in 720 turbofuel

iron prairie
gusty nexus
#

and 720 turbofuel feeds 160 generators

iron prairie
#

The recycled rubber/plastic loop is simplest to explain when going for a 50/50 mix of plastic and rubber:

Rubber refinery: 30 fuel + 30 plastic -> 60 rubber
Plastic refinery: 30 fuel + 30 rubber -> 60 plastic
Combined: 60 fuel + 30 plastic + 30 rubber -> 60 plastic + 60 rubber
Net Reaction: 60 fuel -> 30 plastic + 30 rubber```
gusty nexus
#

if you only make residual rubber, how do you ratio the split between recycled plastic and RE-recycling to make more rubber?

iron prairie
#

Honestly, it's simplest just to treat the residual rubber as a separate thing, and feed recycled plastic solely from recycled rubber refineries and vice-versa.

gusty nexus
#

yeah, i know you "loop" the recycled rubber into recycled plastic

#

and recycling one gives you triple of the other

iron prairie
#

As to how to bias the output towards plastic/rubber:

Each rubber refinery switched to plastic yields +90 plastic, -90 rubber, and vice-versa.

#

At the endpoints, you can have either 1/3 rubber refineries feeding 2/3 plastic refineries, producing only plastic, or 2/3 rubber + 1/3 plastic, producing only rubber.

#

Those ratios get a bit more complicated if you mix in the residual rubber, which is why I treat that separately.

oblique sandal
#

@iron prairie Thank you

topaz hedge
#

It's even simpler if you don't do 50/50 and just do 100% rubber . 6 refineries making recycled rubber, and 3 refineries making recycled plastic nets you 270 rubber/min

#

If you want plastic just swap recipes

#

But yes, sms is right. Do not use residual rubber or plastic in your recycled setups.. do it separately or just sink the resin all together.

gusty nexus
#

wait, so how do you get the rubber in the first place to start it?

topaz hedge
#

Manually throw rubber or plastic into any refinery

gusty nexus
#

then how do you automate the process

topaz hedge
#

What do you mean? Once you throw rubber or plastic into it, it'll have a bit of warm up but after that it's good

gusty nexus
#

so you break off part of the recycled product to feed the first array of refineries?

#

and create a loop?

topaz hedge
#

Nope. Single row

gusty nexus
#

then how do you keep rubber coming in to keep the whole setup going?

topaz hedge
gusty nexus
#

yeah, that's what i said, feed part of your product back into the system to sustain the loop

#

i wasn't talking loop as in the physical positioning of the machines, but the conceptual positioning of what feeds what

topaz hedge
#

Oh, yeah. I got you.. I just setup the system so it's a closed loop on the backside

#

And doing it this way as well as targeting a belt speed for your output, you can avoid lots of issues with these, like overdrawing dropping the output, or running the loop dry

#

Its actually impossible to drop the output of you build it like in my diagram, even if it's feeding a sink it will continue to produce 270 a min forever

supple mural
#

oh that smart

fierce ruin
#

I fold it on itself like a soft taco

supple mural
#

i typically cordon off areas of recycled rubber that have the sole purpose of feeding all of recycled plastic and vice versa

#

with flow priority to the refineries that feed the other type of recycling

west mist
#

hello everyone, i´m currently building my factory for the assembly director system, but for the amount of item/min is very slow. i need a lot of heavy frames. so i´m using the heavy encased. but for the modular frame, are the alternates worth it or should i stick with the basic? the bolted frame seems tempting but looks like it uses a lot more iron

topaz hedge
#

bolted plates/bolted frames are nice if you use steel screws. I believe bolted alts have roughly the same resource efficency as the standard recipe, they're just faster.

west mist
#

hmm, ok thanks. i´ll check if i have the steel screws

signal nimbus
#

Not really.

#

Bolted alts are significantly less resource-efficient.

topaz hedge
#

if you want to go that route, another way would be screwfree, which uses steel frame (very steel heavy) or standard, and sitched iron plate (no complaints if used with iron wire, other than it's just slow)

#

Have you run the math on it?

signal nimbus
#

Yep.

topaz hedge
#

Mk

topaz hedge
# signal nimbus Yep.

I've only done the math for them to compare on 60 HMF/min and it wasn't a huge difference.

#

non-bolted was like ~3500 steel ingots, and bolted was ~4000 steel ingots.

signal nimbus
#

Normalized to an output of 15 Reinforced Iron Plates per minute:

RIP: 90 Iron Plates, 180 Screws
BIP: 90 Iron Plates, 250 Screws

#

70 Screws is 1.75 Screw constructors, or 17.5 iron ingots. In the beginning, not an issue. When you start mass-producing, that adds up in terms of both complexity (moving that sheer number of screws) and resources.

west mist
#

and for these last deliveries, i´m curious how much you guys with megafactories are producing. its very inefficient to just create, like, one line of 2/min for these items, right? it would need to be something like 15-20/min

signal nimbus
#

I'd recommend shooting for something in that range, yeah. 10-20 seems to be the general consensus.

topaz hedge
#

So a few more screws. like 72% more screws. that's offset quite a bit when using steel screws.

signal nimbus
#

Except you've now introduced coal to the equation.

topaz hedge
#

That depends on how you build your factories (: on my world.. I don't use any iron.. everything is steel.

#

steel coated plates, steel rods, steel screws.

signal nimbus
#

Still... Every single Bolted Iron Plate assembler will need a dedicated Mk 3 belt of screws going into it. 52/minute translates to roughly 5 constructors for each Assembler.

#

For RIP, each Assembler will need about 1.5, so two can share 3.

topaz hedge
#

steel screws is 1:1 constructor/assembler :3

signal nimbus
#

...I'm talking about Reinforced Iron Plates, not Modular Frames, gimme a sec to swap pages.

west mist
topaz hedge
#

Some ways are more resource (iron/steel) efficient, but you end up using 2-3x as many machines which can hurt the overall performance of the game, (depending on how fast your pc is; and how big your world is)

west mist
topaz hedge
west mist
west mist
#

before it burns my potato

#

specially because i like the glass foundations and lights haha

topaz hedge
#

that helps, to an extent. really it helps quite a bit, but, lots of machines still has a performance hit, regardless of where they're at in the world :3

west mist
topaz hedge
#

I'm not entirely sure.

signal nimbus
#

Mkay... quick math, normalized to 10 Modular Frames per minute:

MF: 15 Reinforced Iron Plates, 60 Iron Rods
BF: 15 Reinforced Iron Plates, 280 Screws

Going with Steel/Bolted alternatives, that translates to ~55.7693 Steel Ingots and 10 Plastic for Bolted Frames.

Vanilla recipe for Modular Frame and Reinforced Iron Plate, with steel for everything else, that translates to ~43.8462 Steel Ingots and 10 Plastic.

That's a 27% increase in materials used, so in any situation where you may need to mass produce, you will literally get 27% more Modular Frames per input using vanilla than bolted recipes.

topaz hedge
#

honestly, that sounds about right to the numbers I'd see on the calculator.

signal nimbus
#

Mhm. It's actually significant. Also, the production chain for the vanilla HMF was greatly simplified.

topaz hedge
#

the biggest draw to me for the bolted recipes, is the fewer machines needed. I can 1:1 assemblers to constructors, and overclock them both to cut down on adding too many machines to my world.

signal nimbus
#

Okay. Which bolted recipe?

topaz hedge
#

both of them

signal nimbus
#

I'm actually interested in this, btw, currently planning another restart. Mkay, one moment.

topaz hedge
#

I used heavy encased frames with mine though, as it cutdown on the amount of mod frames per hmf

topaz hedge
#

total steel use for 74.67 modular frames with steel coated, steel screws, bolted plates, bolted frames is 416.41 ingots/min.

gusty nexus
#

lmao how the hell am i going to find space for 160 fucking fuel generators

signal nimbus
#

Not bad. I made one for 90 HMF that uses about 5310.

topaz hedge
signal nimbus
loud heron
#

What is Caterium's main meta use?

#

I could technically make computers out of just the basic metals, but Im wondering whats worth using Caterium on

signal nimbus
#

Supercomputer and Crystal Oscilator factories.

loud heron
#

Any ratio bias for those 2?

signal nimbus
#

...highly variable and dependent on recipes chosen/desired quantities of each.

glacial hemlock
#

Caterium substitute and relieve the usage of other resources, mainly copper

glacial hemlock
gusty nexus
#

eh, i did have enough space to do 2 floors of five 2x8 grids of generators

vast jungle
vast jungle
#

hook up some Raw Quartz (or maybe even Limestone you don't need) directly to a sink?

#

you don't need Quartz early... and you often have more Limestone than necessary

dusk frigate
#

just got pure aluminum ingot 😳 but how worth it is it honestly since the ratio becomes 2:1 instead of 3:2?

vast jungle
dusk frigate
#

hmm interesting

#

personally i use only oil for circuit boards, which isnt the best, but its convenient

signal nimbus
#

I like the Pure Aluminum ingots, if for no other reason than they simplify the production chain by an input and have nice numbers and use smelters. I look for reasons to use those.

umbral harbor
#

I like the silica Alts. I really wanna set up a cheap silica factory or section of a factory to see how well it'd work

signal nimbus
#

...also because cutting out quartz means I can make more crystal oscillators and other things with quartz.

dusk frigate
#

true 😳

#

ooo if you take sloppy alumina you can fully cut silica from the equation

#

dont even have to think about it

#

what do you guys think of instant scrap though 😳

signal nimbus
#

Requires Sulfur, that's used heavily in nuclear power plants.

#

Also the only place in the entire production chain where you might have to use it.

topaz hedge
#

sulfur can be used heavily for batteries, and supercomputer production too... instascrap.. not worth it tbh

buoyant furnace
#

Has anyone figured out how much the drones consume battery wise?

signal nimbus
#

4/trip, I think.

topaz hedge
#

Yes, it tells you on the UI. varies depending on distance between ports

buoyant furnace
#

cool, thank you

topaz hedge
#

Yup, anytime. (:

buoyant furnace
#

I still have to set up properly the battery factory (alumina, or rather, baux is slow)

topaz hedge
#

if you plan on having lots of drones, idk what to tell you. I feel like targeting 4/5 batteries/min per drone is probably a safe starting point, but I could be wrong

#

if you wait until you unlock mk3 miners and pressurizers, you can easily turn the impure bauxite in the swamp and it's nearby sulfur node into 90 batteries/min

umbral harbor
#

Copper is a far more limited resources in U4 because of Copper Powder, correct?

topaz hedge
#

among other reasons yes.

vast jungle
#

someone interested about some math for Rubber/Plastic production with Recycling Loops... its a bit long for a single post here, but I could break it up (and/or link my GoogleDrive document)

topaz hedge
#

excluding powder, alcad casings is a new one that can chew through quite a bit, then just the regular U3 offenders for copper usage, as well as needing more RCU's and computers in general.

umbral harbor
#

I imagine you can get a hysterical loop going using Diluted Fuel, huh?

vast jungle
#

its about the HOR -> Diluted Fuel -> Recycling chain

umbral harbor
vast jungle
#

ahh so what, I will just post it here... be careful, wall of text coming... 😉

I did something stupid, thinking about "good" batch-sizes for plastic/rubber production just before going to sleep... which meant lots of thinking and not enough sleep, but I want to share what is mostly already known by a lot people... (to be precise, I am talking about a Diluted Fuel pure Rubber or pure Plastic factory)

#

Ranting
Why seem the number of Refineries in a Recycled Rubber/Plastic loop to be so broken? With other stuff it seems to be much easier to find a good rate...

The reason why producing Rubber is bad, but producing Plastic is even worse is a hidden? gem in the effective ratios between the recipes...

topaz hedge
vast jungle
#

Rubber
I i'll start with Rubber... it's a bit easier.

everything starts with HOR, which turns 30 Crude Oil into 40 HOR and 20 Polymer Resin... which means we would like to start with a multiple of 30 m^3 Crude Oil...
The Polymer Resin is always turned into Rubber (it's more effective than to use Plastic) and its ratio is 2:1... so it's 10 Rubber from 30 Crude Oil.
the HOR is diluted... which (unless you really love Packagers) means we use the Blender to turn 50 HOR into 100 Fuel...

great... This means the perfect input ratio for Crude Oil into Fuel would be 150... because it produces 200 HOR, which is divisible by 50. You could also just OC a HOR refinery to 125% and you get 50 HOR... from 37.5 Oil (ugh... 🙂 ). The other option would be to run the Blender at 80%, which would make it fit perfectly on the 40 HOR output...

in all cases we get a ratio of 30 Crude Oil to 10 Rubber and 80 Fuel... nice... recycling turns fuel into rubber at 1:1, so we finally got 8 parts rubber (through HOR) and 1 part rubber (through Resin) from 3 parts Oil... factor 3, thats nice.

Using Recycled Plastic/Rubber to produce only one output is done by using three Refineries, fueling 2 of the with the output of the first, delivering 1/4 of the output of the pair back to the first one... Both Recycled Rubber and Plastic use an input of 30, so we would like to get Fuel in batches of 90 (or close).

umbral harbor
vast jungle
#

Which is already a problem... producing HOR removes a "prime-factor" of 3 from the crude oil input... Diluted Fuel would like to get an input of 50 (no prime-factor 3) but Recycling would like an input of 90 (two times the prime factor three).

The "easiest" solution I have is an input of 270 Crude Oil, then use 9 Refineries to produce 940=360 HOR and 920=180 Polymer Resin... turn the Polymer Resin with 4.5 Refineries into 180/2=90 Rubber. Then use 8 Blenders (at 90% UC) to turn the HOR into 360/45=720 Fuel... which then fuel 8 Recycling-Loops (each taking 720/8=90 input, nice!) to generate 720 Rubber... which gives us 810 Rubber.

300 Crude Oil would need 10 Refineries to produce 400 HOR and 200 Resin, then 5 Refineries (nice!) to create 100 Rubber from the Resin... 8 Blenders (nice!) turn the HOR into 800 Fuel.
We then need 8 + 1/9 (sigh, maybe OC one of the loops by 11%?) Recycling Loops to turn the fuel into 800 Rubber, giving us a total of 900 Rubber.

#

Plastic
Plastic is worse...

Because Residual Plastic is worse than Residual Rubber, we still need to produce Rubber from the Polymer Resin and then use a set of Recycled Plastic Refineries to turn it into double the plastic.

again, 1/3 of the crude oil number becomes Rubber (through Resin), 8/3 of the oil number becomes fuel... but 1/8 of the fuel is necessary to turn the Resin-Rubber into Plastic, so we only have 7/3 of the oil numbers left for Fuel.

And 7 is an awful prime-factor, even for OC/UC factors (and unexpected when looking at the machines input/output ratios)... I have yet to find some elegant numbers without going for something insane like 1890=7*270 Crude Oil.

300 Crude Oil would again need 10+5 Refineries and 8 Blenders to produce 100 Rubber and 800 Fuel... we take 3.33 Refineries to make the 100 Rubber into 200 Plastic, using up 100 Fuel... leaving 700 Fuel, which gives us 7.77 recycling loops to turn the 700 Fuel into 700 Plastic, giving us 900 Plastic.

Stupid factor 7…

#

Combined Rubber/Plastic
Finally, there are factories producing both Plastic and Rubber at the same time in various ratios. A symmetric recycling loop is made from a pair of Refineries, each taking 30 Fuel and giving half of its output (60/2=30 Rubber/Plastic) back into the other one.

300 Crude Oil would again use the 10+5 Refinery and 8 Blender setup to produce 800 Fuel… which can be turned (by 26.66 Refineries?) into 400 Rubber and 400 Plastic… and producing another 100 Rubber from the Polymer Resin.

If you want total symmetry, you need to take 1/16 of the produced Fuel (which is 1/6 of the original oil number) and use it to turn half of the Polymer Resins Rubber into Plastic… and then take the other 15/6 of the original oil number symmetrically into Rubber and Plastic.

300 Crude Oil would again use the 10+5 Refinery and 8 Blender setup to produce 800 Fuel and 100 Rubber… then you need 33 Fuel to turn 33 of this Rubber into 66 Plastic with 1.1 Refineries (one at 110%?). The remainder of 766 Fuel can fuel 12.76 Rubber/Plastic Recycling Loops to produce 383 Plastic and 383 Rubber… with a total of 450 Rubber and 450 Plastic.

umbral harbor
#

Beeg beeg oil products

topaz hedge
#

oh mai.

umbral harbor
#

So one pure node would produce, what 900 of each?

topaz hedge
#

well, unless you're looking to maximize every drop of oil.. you lose a bit of oil with recycled loops, but you gain overall.

umbral harbor
#

Seems to make oil alts for parts way more viable.

#

Also, jesus, big ass overclocked refinery lines sounds intense.

vast jungle
umbral harbor
#

Big gains

vast jungle
#

but the numbers are not as nice as we would expect

topaz hedge
#

most of my large setup loses a bit of oil, per well.

#

something like 1080 out of 1200 oil gets used for the recycled loop

signal nimbus
#

Well... 600 in produces 900 of each out.

vast jungle
#

if you find a mistake, feel free to point it out or put a "comment" on the Google Drive document...

#

I am planning a "larger" (for my playstyle) plastic/rubber plant and want both keep separate... this way I don't need to worry about blocking belts and I don't need to add a Sink either...

signal nimbus
#

Just checked my design, then saw that it had been said previously.

vast jungle
#

lots of math that kept me awake last night 😉

topaz hedge
#

I'll look through it, as for my setup.. I'm not really worried about the oil that I've lost as I haven't really found a way to use the 6000 rubber and 5000 plastic it's already producing D:

umbral harbor
#

Jesus

topaz hedge
#

yeah.. I knew I was making quite a bit but.. damn

unknown.png
vast jungle
#

I think the 5 rubber to 4 plastic split is promising when you want to produce both...

#

because it keeps the fuel-recycling-loop symmetric

umbral harbor
#

Non-silica aluminum production good? I found the bauxite node near the oil on the west coast and I actually have enough oil available not being used to make coke for it.

topaz hedge
#

it is 1:1 bauxite to alumium ingot with the right alts

umbral harbor
#

That's a good ratio

#

I also have a Hanging Factory design I wanna do, which works great where that node is.

vast jungle
#

yeah, even if you don't want to deal with "belt limits" you could easily 1500 Aluminium Ingots with these two nodes

umbral harbor
#

Two nodes? I only saw one up there

topaz hedge
#

there's two.

vast jungle
#

there is a second one on the other side... also pure

topaz hedge
#

3 actually all pretty close by i think

umbral harbor
#

Well God damn, ain't that nice

#

That whole area has a ridiculous amount of good nodes

topaz hedge
#

Most of the bauxite is up in the redforest... I ran a trainline up there to gather it all :3

#

besides bauxite.. redforest is rather crap lol

vast jungle
#

I built two huge "item elevators" to get all of the Bauxit down to the West coast

umbral harbor
#

South of the oil is a bunch of pure copper/iron/limestone, south of that is pure caterium, and north of it too. Then the oil has a pure and two normalsz and then bauxite. All right next to the fucking ocean for water

vast jungle
#

and use 600 of it at the moment 😉

umbral harbor
#

This might be my favorite place to build right now

#

Red Forest is hell. I will burn it down

vast jungle
umbral harbor
#

Didn't even know, I'm not at tier 7/8 yet

#

What a bizarrely great spot to work on

#

You can even build out over the water so nothing gets in the way.

#

Don't have to worry about piping water anywhere, it's always below you haha

topaz hedge
#

you talking about the gold coast yeah? it's nice :3

umbral harbor
#

Seems phenomenal, I never knew it was so rich...

#

"Gold Coast"

"Rich"

Well I'll be fucked

topaz hedge
#

xD

vast jungle
#

in terms of oil, its tame compared to the North Coast...

#

but its still very good

topaz hedge
#

it really makes a nice starter area for a main base, kinda it used to be my favorite spoit

umbral harbor
#

Yeah, but it certainly seems balanced

#

I never knew. The coast was the only starter location I haven't used

#

I moved over there because I kept finding stuff

topaz hedge
#

it's lacking in coal and quartz, and sulfur, and those aren't too terribly far away

#

It's not a starter location XD

umbral harbor
#

Yeah, I'm training in coal and compacted coal for steel and turbo

#

Well the coast starter location is only like 500m north of there

vast jungle
#

the lack of coal would be a problem for a starter location

#

better start in the Rocky Desert and then move South

topaz hedge
#

but during my first couple of playthroughs when i started in grasslands, I moved to that coast to build my base pretty quickly

umbral harbor
#

Yeah Rocky Desert, that's what I meant

topaz hedge
#

unless you end up with your base in the top northwest corner of rocky.. then you kinda screwed lol

umbral harbor
#

This playthrough started at the northern forest. Then I moved to the grasslands, and now I'm settling on the Gold Coast

vast jungle
#

so anyone found something missing or bad in my "plastic/rubber" ranting? 😉

topaz hedge
#

Not yet, well, you included resin in the ratios, which I always feel like it's best to leave that out of the math for recycled loops and deal with it separately :3

umbral harbor
#

Is there an advantage to using fractions when deciding clock speed over percentages?

#

Or does it just come out to the same numbers, basically?

vast jungle
vast jungle
umbral harbor
#

I know my current recycled line is based on residual rubber as a junpstart

topaz hedge
umbral harbor
#

It's super modest compared to what y'all are on, though

vast jungle
#

@topaz hedge the new numbers for the Blender "Diluted Fuel" also shuffled a few things around in terms of "good fractions"

umbral harbor
umbral harbor
vast jungle
#

I think most people start with a Residual Plastic/Rubber plant

topaz hedge
vast jungle
#

yeah, these strange numbers (because non-fitting prime factors) what made me write up this stuff this morning

topaz hedge
#

using blenders will even out to 8 blenders, but your recycled rubber to plastic refinery ratio is still screwed

#

so it's either a) sacrifice a little bit of oil per well and have nice clean ratios or b) get all the oil and have nasty ratios :/

vast jungle
#

exactly

#

because every "plastic/rubber generation loop" needs 90 input for a 100% variant

#

and 800/90 is not a nice fraction 😉

#

and if you want to use the Polymer-Resin for Plastic too, it gets even worse... 700/90

topaz hedge
#

granted, as long as you're not trying to get x amount of rubber AND x plastic out of the loop, and you build it the wolf way of only producing one :p it's possible to get the setup to run just fine by just overproducing the opposite (if you're making rubber-overproduce plastic slightly to feed the loop)

umbral harbor
#

So dedicate one node to one, and another to the other?

topaz hedge
#

not necessarly a whole node

umbral harbor
#

Or, rather, separate loops

topaz hedge
#

just that loop

vast jungle
#

@umbral harbor that would be one option... but one node is up to 600 oil... do you need 1800 Rubber and 1800 Plastic? 😉

#

keeping the loops separate make them more robust for blocking

topaz hedge
#

pretty much you build this #math-and-meta message and you build it twice, once for plastic, once for rubber and you'll use ~220 oil, then take the remaining oil and turn it into jetpack fuel xD

umbral harbor
topaz hedge
#

separate loops that target beltspeeds as their outputs can also feed a sink for days with no drop in output :3

umbral harbor
#

I just wanna make all the space elevator parts. Not even a lot of them, just enough to "win"

#

Then, I dunno, guess I'll stare out the window for a while

topaz hedge
topaz hedge
umbral harbor
#

Once the game stops giving me goals to work towards, I'll probably just stop.

#

It's why I never cared for Minecraft or 7 Days to Die. No endgoals

#

Or, y'know, I'll just play it again, but differently somehow

#

I'll make Combine Towers like I initially planned

topaz hedge
#

Making x amount of really expensive parts a min to feed into a sink is a valid endgoal.. you can kinda make up your own goals with this game in that way

umbral harbor
#

That's the unfortunate problem for me, I don't really find motivation in setting custom goals. I like goals that are predetermined in games.

#

But hey, 750 hours and I've never seen tier 7/8. I think I'll be playing for a while anyways

topaz hedge
#

Like I did a 20/min nuclear pasta factory.. completely useless part aside from spaceelevator. Just to do it and unlock that second golden nut statue.

umbral harbor
#

I probably won't even be done with this playthrough by the time U5 comes out haha

topaz hedge
#

Some people do max builds of a certain part.. like when you run out of things to do.. it's pretty easy to start on something new lol

umbral harbor
#

True

errant wing
#

hey are there any 3 to 8 splitter systems out there?

wind spade
#

usually people just do manifolds

# 
--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X
errant wing
#

eh, issue is that each of the 3 inputs is already at max belt capacity for my tech tier

wind spade
#

build 9 machines instead, divide to sets of 3, underclock last machine in each set to 66.6667%

#

that way you don't need to do any shenanigans

errant wing
#

guess so, just have to craft 30 frames but that's not too bad

wind spade
#

most of the times when people start thinking about balancers, there's another way to do it without them 🙂

#

just out of curiosity, what are you doing that you need 3:8?

errant wing
#

steel

#

3 pure nodes, 8 forges

#

foundries, my bad

wind spade
#

I'd suggest getting solid steel ingot alternate recipe

#

to have more steel out of same amount of iron

errant wing
#

just have to find the alternate recipe is all, lol

vast jungle
#

you would need 3x(1+2+4)=21 splitters and 8 mergers

errant wing
#

doesn't seem the most efficient way to go about it

#

I think I'll just go do some hard drive hunting to see how that alt recipe works out

vast jungle
wind spade
#

even without the alt, it's probably easiest to do what I suggested, build 9 buildings instead of 8

vast jungle
wind spade
#

88.8889%*

errant wing
#

well, I just got the alt

wind spade
#

it adds one step, but allows you to make more steel out of same amount of iron

errant wing
#

yeah, certainly looks like it

wind spade
#

in the future you can also get pure iron ingot recipe, which adds water to make even more ingots

errant wing
#

I already have that recipe actually, just no refineries

#

because, lol, tier 4

wind spade
#

yeah it's kinda weird that you can get it before refineries 😄

errant wing
#

honestly the refinery itself seems a bit ah... overengineered for what is essentially just ore washing

vast jungle
#

its the only thing we had with a solid and a liquid input at that time ^^ (and outputs)

errant wing
#

well, maybe there'll be a dedicated ore-washer someday

vast jungle
#

most likely CSS thinks (at the moment) that "Pure XYZ" recipes should be expensive in space and power

errant wing
#

yeah, balancing I guess

#

though you could counterbalance it with having to somehow deal with contaminated water after the washing

#

anyway not for this place

vast jungle
#

balancing numbers (how much cost vs. how much effect) are good here I think

#

we had a lengthy discussion how effective (and how expensive) the Copper Alloy vs. the Pure Copper path was in the past

errant wing
#

I see

pseudo lance
#

I used the Pure Copper recipe for my Steamed Copper Sheet factory. Since I needed water for the copper sheets, I figured I might as well use it to make pure copper too.

#

But I prefer to use the Copper Alloy recipe for most of my copper.

loud heron
#

Prioritizing sheer throughput at the cost of one cheap resource seems worth it to me.

iron prairie
#

For me, copper alloy vs. pure copper is a matter of local convenience: is there excess iron or water around? Mechanically, I suspect copper alloy is usually better, with pure copper taking over if you need more copper or more iron, but the reduced power consumption of copper alloy ingots relative to pure ingots is not to be underestimated.

#

As to iron, my preferred recipe is just the default smelter one, falling back to pure iron if I somehow manage to run out of iron ore.

signal nimbus
#

Eh... pure is better by the metric of more ingots per ore.

iron prairie
#

Problem is, alloy is far better by the metric of more ingots per MJ. Pure copper winds up indirectly costing you a decent whonk of coal, oil, or nuclear fuel rods.

signal nimbus
#

Mmm... don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the alloy recipes. But if you're running nuclear, and are that tight for energy, you have other issues.

#

Also with the new update, you're losing those resources anyway.

supple mural
#

just plug a power cord into the sun, so you dont have any more problems

ancient marten
#

I need the brainy people to help me with a satisfactory math problem

iron prairie
#

Default copper ingots: 8 MJ per ingot
Copper alloy ingots: 9.6 MJ per ingot
Pure copper ingots: 48 MJ per ingot

Pure copper winds up costing you an extra 0.021 crude oil per ingot relative to copper alloy, assuming 672.5 MJ per fuel (after subtracting production costs) and the full HOR->diluted fuel chain.

signal nimbus
#

...MJ? I'm not convinced.

iron prairie
#

As to the "running nuclear and that tight for energy" argument, that's a non-argument. Nuclear fuel rods, especially if you're doing plutonium reprocessing, aren't cheap in terms of other resources spent. Every drop of resources spent on energy isn't spent on making things.

signal nimbus
#

...no, it's an argument that you aren't addressing.

iron prairie
#

You could reduce your nuclear power and free up resources for other purposes.

#

"Eh, nuclear gives you plenty of power" is a blithe failure to account for opportunity costs.

light solar
#

The question becomes what is the production cost of that nuclear fuel in relation to how much energy increase is needed to process the pure if I'm understanding correctly.

iron prairie
#

And the math isn't hard:

Copper alloy: 16 MW * 12 sec/cycle / 20 ingots -> 9.6 MJ/ingot
Pure copper: 30 MW * 24 sec/cycle / 15 ingots -> 48 MJ/ingot (not including water extraction costs)```
light solar
#

So the cost of producing an additional 38.4 MJ or 40MJ depending on recipe

signal nimbus
#

...you know you don't produce MJ, right?

#

You produce MW.

iron prairie
iron prairie
ancient marten
#

im trying to get the perfect percentage for my constructor and its consuming 40.0001 limestone a minute and i only want it to consume 40 😂

iron prairie
#

A megawatt is a unit of power, energy over time, while the megajoule is a unit of energy.

Energy = power * time

errant wing
signal nimbus
#

I'm aware, I have an AS in Physics, but that's still not what you produce.

iron prairie
ancient marten
#

i will do crazy percentages to get my 40

#

88.888% was the special number

iron prairie
iron prairie
signal nimbus
#

Cut the insults. Using unuseful metrics and getting called out is on you.

iron prairie
#

It's absolutely equivalent, and I have no further business discussing anything with you. Either you're arguing in bad faith... or you're stupid. Either way, goodbye.

sacred fractal
#

^

iron prairie
#

Seriously, it's easier to say "X energy per item" than "X power per item per minute".

sacred fractal
#

Drop it

light solar
#

So going back to the MJ as I'd rather deal in integers personally when possible. I don't think there's a question it is an additional cost so much as just what is that cost and is it worth it. One you can quantify but other is harder without calculating all the nodes and what the ultimate use case is for that additional copper

mint musk
#

You also can consider space. Pure cooper requires less room

iron prairie
#

Incorrect. Pure copper requires tons of room due to its slow throughput and use of large refineries. Copper alloy is far more compact.

light solar
#

Space considerations are harder to quantify as what is the cost of space? Concrete for foundations/walls, copper for power cables and so on but that number is pretty low value I would think

iron prairie
#

It's mostly a consideration for time spent building all that space and running around the factory floor getting things set up.

#

(it's also more of a concern for pure copper, since that means water, and if possible, you don't want to pump water upstairs. Copper alloy, however, is a purely dry process, so stacking additional floors is as simple as conveyor lifts: it doesn't need to be near water, and you don't have to pay for any fluid pumps)

light solar
#

So between building considerations, energy cost it seems like copper alloy would come out 'cheaper' for the ratio but how does it compare to default for the extra costs given the lower energy needs

mint musk
#

Ah so i was just comparing pure copper to copper ingot

#

I got the recipes mixed up lol

iron prairie
#

Default copper ingot is probably roughly comparable to copper alloy for space considerations. Less throughput, but less bulky of a building and simpler to manifold.

As to alloy vs. default: while alloy is technically a bit more power-hungry (and iron-hungry), the 2x more copper ingots I feel is worth it in almost all cases. By the late game, there's a lot of uses for copper ingots.

Pure copper, I'd reserve for either "I have water but no iron here, and I CBA to belt in iron from a kilometer away" or "I have managed to completely run out of copper, so I really do need to squeeze out those last few ingots".

#

Copper alloy is also amusing when combined with fused quickwire. Quickwire is supposed to be "pure caterium", but with those two alts, it's a mixture of iron, copper and caterium in a 5:10:8 ratio (going by ore).

Substandard, adulterated product ho!

signal nimbus
#

Since you're resorting to playground insults, which are never called for and cause me to question your maturity, I did the math by my own metrics. In terms of items/hour per MWh, your conclusion is correct.

However. When you use a unit, regardless of how technically correct it might be, and the use of that unit is confusing, and then someone questions you based on using a unit that does not appear in game and does not translate well to calculations based on which kind of power plant you want to use (standard practice is always to use the easiest units for this, not ones requiring additional calculations), then it's not arguing in bad faith. Its arguing for more clarity in the reporting units.

Finally, you don't address the question of nuclear having enough power, or the fact that regardless of usage, the materials are being spent anyway with the new update. Now on a tight power budget, it's a trade off of about two Foundries to one Refinery. For someone looking to max their production with a budget in the upper GW to TW, spending about 75 (rough math in my head) MW to max copper production, plus the electricity for the water extractor, when it can get hard to get in the late game as it keeps getting used, is a no-brainer.

supple mural
#

what happened here

frosty owl
#

What's the point, saving power by not using pure copper? thinking_helmet
Looks at pure copper setups made just to avoid bringing in a new copper node

lament jolt
#

Looks like some people get crazy serious about math and power numbers here...over a game. I feel that there are areas of the game as is that the developers purposely set things up to no be 100% efficiency...

light solar
#

Think the final point is pure copper's cost to operate is greater than than it is worth in most instances so it isn't optimal. There use cases for it but the tradeoff is cost to operate

frosty owl
#

I think 100% efficiency isn't impossible to get... As long as you stay clear of belt/pipes limits, that is ^^

frosty owl
supple mural
#

just have every machine's output connected to every other machines input

light solar
#

specifically the cost is power generation used vs ingots generated.

frosty owl
supple mural
#

i think if i made several thousand of each building it would work

#

within a few hundreths of a percent

#

but i wonder where i would get the RAM

frosty owl
lament jolt
#

So for example...in a short while, my revamped site will have 22 smelters for Iron Ingots, 14 for Copper, and all off of 4 pure iron and 2 pure copper using Mk 2 miners and belts are mostly Mk4, except the connection from each machine to the mergers. And using ISCs to create two 480 lines for iron...is it efficient? I don't know yet

supple mural
#

one U fuel rod using pure is 12500 copper

bleak coral
#

Maybe not the smartest thing to stick my nose in here, but here's my two cents: power efficiency only matters if you're early in the game or you're maxing out the map and your current max points plan doesn't leave enough resources for power.

supple mural
#

so you get 12.5k copper for every fuel rod you burn (this is including a guesstimate for water useage)

bleak coral
#

Otherwise we have an excess of power in this game

supple mural
#

"power is cheap"

lament jolt
#

well power supply is not an end of the world thing...just build more

light solar
#

How many copper alloy do you get per fuel rod? I don't have lot of the numbers in front of me.

supple mural
#

basically 80k

#

almost the same as regular smelting

light solar
#

So that's the core difference per fuel rod. Cost of producing that pure is significantly higher when you account for making that fuel rod as well.

lament jolt
#

I also think that the power storage buildings are thr greatest thing since sliced bread. I have 50 and my current max power generation is 2250 MW. All my machines on it may only take 1300 MW, but that gives me room to grow and expand my generators

supple mural
#

batteries are fairly op

#

but you need a lot more as you progress further

lament jolt
#

To each their own

supple mural
#

i love em

#

but wouldnt blame anyone who wanted to nerf them

lament jolt
#

True. I know once I finish all my f tier 6... I will have to plan for a slightly Kibz power plant

bleak coral
#

I don't have much use for them. I was already overbuilding power and not turning stuff off so I don't have much fluctuations.

#

Power storages are fine. They don't hold much energy anyway.

supple mural
#

they're better at holding energy than a fluid buffer of fuel

iron prairie
#

AIUI, they store 100 MWh (360 GJ), which is a pretty substantial amount, in fairly convenient form.

bleak coral
vast jungle
#

Building a large "pure copper" array is not fun... as long as I have more copper AND more iron than I will need, I will happily use Copper Alloy 😉

lament jolt
#

Well...the fluid buffer is also about how many you place, and if you want to have several hours worth of fuel stored off site with a valve in case the main supply has issues

supple mural
#

but, you need fuel gens along with those buffers, which take up substantially more space

#

which makes batteries far more compact

vast jungle
#

Using fluid buffers as energy storage makes only sense if you have the (Turbo)Fuel Powerplant anyways

iron prairie
#

IRL, fuel would be vastly more energy-dense than power storages, but it's a game.

hidden hedge
#

The batteries are bigger on the inside. XD

lament jolt
#

In one of my saves I have 20k fuel gens on the ocean. It is on hold until mods work better, but the fuel storage portion would keep that plant running for 2 days

supple mural
#

power storages are inertia based power systems

vast jungle
#

then, adding some fluid-buffers is a nice way to store power... but it only works if your resources malfunction

supple mural
#

power storages arent actually batteries

#

in the chemical sense

vast jungle
#

power storage can give you more energy than your powerplants produce for some time, so they have a different purpose

iron prairie
supple mural
#

so, power storages arent limited by the power density of chemical storage media, but the structural integrity of their flywheel

supple mural
#

they use stators in their recipe, make a sound while operating, and show spinning when discharging

bleak coral
#

Considering the amount of power we use I think it's perfectly reasonable for them to be that energy dense. Part of their job afterall is give time to fix your factory. I'd rather that be measured in hours rather than minutes.

iron prairie
#

It makes no sense with IRL physics, but that can be said of many things in-game. I'm mostly OK with them.

errant wing
#

and the game engine is limited in doing big things like a battery lake

supple mural
#

im gonna build a battery lake just you watch me

errant wing
#

you can't just pump up water into a big lake to store in case your other power sources die and you need the hydro

supple mural
#

oh

iron prairie
#

That's usually called "pumped hydro".

supple mural
#

i thought you meant covering a lake with power storages :P

errant wing
#

the UK uses a system like that for load balancing

bleak coral
#

I mean you want to talk about things that don't make sense: fluid buffers are crazy dense.

errant wing
lament jolt
#

IRL physics...really? Stack of 500 pieces of concrete...fits in your pocket...as many stacks as you've unlocked possibly...sure. Physics legit

supple mural
#

thats the pocket dimension

#

duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

errant wing
iron prairie
#

That is Handwavium.

errant wing
#

that coast with the bunch of oil wells, near the dune desert?

#

you can get more oil there per minute than the total annual oil production of the USA

supple mural
#

also

bleak coral
#

lol so basically yeah don't look too close at the numbers compared to irl

lament jolt
#

Yeah, I did the math on a single train car of fluid. 1600 cubic meters of any fluid would not fit in the train car as depicted

errant wing
#

yeah lmao

#

alright I found my numbers again, misremembered on the oil output but it's still rediculous

supple mural
#

there is no nitrogen gas in the atmosphere, but there is nitrogen gas in wells, but we're supposed to believe that these vast stores of subterranean gas have not drained into the atmosphere over the millennia that massage a-bb has existed?

errant wing
#

6 oil extractors can produce something like 970 cubic metres of oil per minute

#

of various purities

bleak coral
#

When all else fails: it's alien bullshit

lament jolt
#

There is nitrogen in the atmosphere. Earth is not pure oxygen

errant wing
#

each mark 1 pipe takes 300 cubic metres of oil per minute

#

for comparison, the US national oil production in 2017 was 1100 cubic metres per minute

iron prairie
#

Water extractors are also silly inefficient, at less than 2% power efficiency.
And that's ignoring the fact that "cubic meter" seems weirdly big for the amount of material we're handling.

errant wing
#

the average tryhard here will outproduce the USA in terms of oil

supple mural
#

instead of wells as if nitrogen were oil?

errant wing
lament jolt
#

422,675.3 gallons is the US equivalent to 1600 m^3

errant wing
#

I can get better production out of an archimedes screw powered by a campfire

bleak coral
#

To be fair we don't know if the planet has nitrogen in the atmosphere, or even if it's breathable for us.

errant wing
supple mural
#

also, the MASSIVE pump on the water extractor can't push water up a pipe further than something a 50th its size

bleak coral
#

The engineer doesn't take off her helmet.

errant wing
#

just use a nitrogen generator

lament jolt
#

Atmosphere collection of gases would mean they could be placed anywhere. Having it as a resource well is better for game engine

supple mural
errant wing
#

those things that collect the nitrogen with an electric arc

#

no no, they're real industrial machines

#

there's various ways they can work, like with membranes or adsorbtion

lament jolt
#

Yeah...the water pump having only 10 meters headlift is strange

supple mural
#

but atmospheric condensers are easier for my smol brane to understand

errant wing
#

right, the arc thing is the Haber process, which doesn't produce straight nitrogen but fixates it into ammonia

iron prairie
errant wing
#

honestly I wouldn't be surprised if 'gold-like element' is just to keep the engineers from hoarding it

supple mural
#

we have a really slow terminal velocity as well

errant wing
#

'no no it's not gold it just is LIKE gold'

supple mural
#

so the atmosphere is certainly dense

lament jolt
#

Lol

iron prairie
#

(like, maybe there is a "gold-like element" in the island of superheavy stability, but there sure won't be minable quantities of it on a planet)

lament jolt
#

32ft per second per second doesn't work in Satisfactory

supple mural
#

eh, id say its possible

errant wing
#

yeah it's definitely not going to be a superheavy stable element

supple mural
#

nuetron star explosions could make it

errant wing
#

if there's any candidate for that it's going to be SAM

supple mural
#

SAM is probablu just alien poo with special properties

lament jolt
#

Is it still where they only give so much per game session and run out?

iron prairie
#

Though, a Watsonian explanation on caterium is "it's just a flat-out lie so that Ficsit doesn't have to pay you for the gold discovery".

errant wing
#

like, this icon exists of caterium. Fairly cubic but..

256.png
#

kinda looks like this

7-6-b-gold-crystals-cubic-or-dodecahedron.png
#

which is an actual real life chunk of gold

#

with fairly cubic structure

lament jolt
#

Maybe someone on the dev team had an ancestor who was a gold rush pioneer...

errant wing
#

well, the FICSIT CEO is called Caterina Parks

#

Caterina. Caterium.

#

I wouldn't be surprised that the plot on release mentions she used her political power to literally just rename gold to herself out of vanity or something

#

like how some dictators name cities after themselves.

oblique hollow
#

thats the thing, caterium is named after her

#

though the ingame one doesnt look like that afaik

errant wing
#

it's an unused menu icon

sand garnet
errant wing
#

yeah, that's the thing, gold can be cubic too

#

which is why pyrite is so confounding

sand garnet
#

from what i remember, the game had ADA make a reference that this wasnt actually gold

#

basically making fun of you as the player

iron prairie
#

Thing is, pyrite is just iron sulfide. Smelting it would get you iron, and that's not exactly a good material for electronics.

Meanwhile, if we assume that ADA is just flat-out lying to you, and the "gold-like element" is just gold, it makes sense.