math-and-meta

[wind spade]

but our generalisation covers exactly those cases

[keen flame]

it completely agrees wth our generalizations though

[wind spade]

god is unhappy with power production scaling when OCing gens

[supple mural]

in order to generalize the way overclocking works, it can't make exceptions for one building type

[keen flame]

So am I, but me and greeny are on the same page as to how the actual mechanics of the sytem work

[wind spade]

after a long discussion it turned into "come up with a general statement that covers how power and item production/consumption works"

[keen flame]

my generalization didn't

[versed violet]

Yes, the gens should either scale production to actual percents, or the actual percents should state the actual production, like 133, 166 and 200%

[frosty owl]

That's the laziest jump in a discussion I've seen in a while

[supple mural]

(can you repaste it here, i kinda only remember greeny's)

[wind spade]

Resource usage scales linearly with production output, while power production/consumptions scales exponentially

[keen flame]

waow

[supple mural]

that was fast

[keen flame]

lol, appreciated

[muted crypt]

normally I'd say "tag me in coach, I wanna play"

[wind spade]

I was looking for it to send to @muted crypt

[supple mural]

ah

[wind spade]

so it came in handy 😄

[muted crypt]

so generators will consume the weird exponentially-scaled number of resources as well alongside how much they produce, right? I seem to recall that

[wind spade]

also mine is kinda the same, just differently worded, I agree that Rowan's is better

[frosty owl]

I'm no grammar nerd, but saying that power production scales exponentially in the same sentence as "resource usage scales linearly" does sound a bit misleading to me
Edit: ambiguous, not misleading

[fast urchin]

Well, I just make power gens have a recipe in my calculations and it works ...

[supple mural]

the problem is that while yes, resource input does scale with power output in gens, driving the process in reverse (which is what crafting machines and miners do) doesnt do the same

[wind spade]

it does... output scales linearly with OC, input scales with output, power consumption scales exponentially... it's all there

[supple mural]

with generators, you get the same energy per fuel at every clock speed, while with crafting machines and miners you get different energy per output item depending on cloack pseed

[supple mural]

gen output does not scale linearly with OC

[wind spade]

again, you're using something that's not a "base" variable, but depends on a different variable

[muted crypt]

When producing non-power products (i.e. not using a generator), resources are consumed/produced linearly but power is consumed exponentially to match clock speed. When producing power products (i.e. using a generator), resources are consumed exponentially just as power is produced exponentially, such that the relationship between the resources consumed and the power produced in a generator is proportional... you can think of it how the input and output non-power factors of a machine such as a refinery are linear to each other.

am I correct with this?

[wind spade]

it says power output scales exponentially in there tho

[versed violet]

while power production [...] scales exponentially
It is not saying the truth right now

[frosty owl]

"Resource usage scales linearly with production output, while power production scales exponentially"
While correct, it could be worded better

[supple mural]

yeah

[wind spade]

yeah

[wind spade]

needs the "power consumption" next to "power production"

[supple mural]

you cant say "production is linearly" with the footnote "but only when that production is not energy"

then its not generalized to everything

my opinion

[wind spade]

there's no "production is linear"

Resource usage scales linearly with production output, while power production/consumptions scales exponentially

[keen flame]

That's because "Energy per fuel" is the production output

[supple mural]

ah

got me there didnt ya

[muted crypt]

Could you make a generalization that for all machines, generators and not, that the input and output maintain the same proportions regardless of clock speed, and that power consumed - to make a non-generator run - is exponential?

[frosty owl]

I meant that the sentence applied to power generators (which only produce power) is a bit convoluted

[supple mural]

i keep thinking back to the first generalization you made :/ thats just me being dumb

[versed violet]

Machine production speed scales lineary with clock, but uses exponentially more power. Power generators on other hand [and here the mumbo jumbo explaining the awkwardness of egenrators]

[wind spade]

it's the best I can do to keep it "generic" I guess

[frosty owl]

👆 Convoluted 😅

[versed violet]

Please treate generators as exception and describe them as such? otherwise it gets really confusing

[muted crypt]

Guys, I think the part that's confusing us here is using the word linear when it's honestly more proper to unite the two statements by saying "proportional"

[supple mural]

they changed it because i said that generalized cant have exceptions

[muted crypt]

Input and output is proportional to each other. Power needed to provide the machine the ability to run does not follow that proportion.

[keen flame]

Proportional doesn't mean linear. An exponential proportion is still proportional

[wind spade]

^

[muted crypt]

Exactly my point. #math-and-meta message

^read that again

edited it to fix one misuse of linear 👀

had to still feel my way around until just about six seconds ago

[versed violet]

generators behave differently, so they need to be worded as an exception.

[muted crypt]

now I think I actually understand what's being discussed lmao

[supple mural]

kinda funny how this happened just because i dont liek the fact that gens' output doesnt increase linearly with clockspeed

[frosty owl]

It's a correct sentence, but it might be worth getting rid of the "/production" part of "power consumption/production" and add a paragraph on power generators (like There is a mod for that is pointing out)

[wind spade]

anyway, the point is that there's no value defined like "energy per craft" or "fuel burn time". It's a value calculated from other values, so while they can scale in some way with OC, we don't use them because it's better to use the base variables instead

[wind spade]

again, for some reason we can't have exceptions in a generic statement 🤷‍♂️

[supple mural]

base variables can and will miss the bigger picture

[keen flame]

I think the amusing part is that I've also said "I don't think it makes sense for generators to scale exponentially"

[frosty owl]

My bad, I'm lacking the context the sentence is in 😅

[versed violet]

Then do not mention generators at all 🤣

[wind spade]

we didn't 🤷‍♂️

Resource usage scales linearly with production output, while power production/consumptions scales exponentially

[keen flame]

because from a function of game balance, power shards are there to do one of two thing: Increase output speed of miners, or reduce the space requirements for machines. I think power gens fall under that category of "reducing space requirtements" so I see little reason they need to scale linearly, from a usability standpoint

[wind spade]

well if you introduce a new variable and say "this variable does break your statement", then it's not really fair either 🤷‍♂️

[supple mural]

really, your original statements were correct, @wind spade

as to how the game currently works

i just wanted to say that its inconsistent

and to prove that, whereas you seem to be justifying the inconsistency

[keen flame]

I mean, the game is inconsistent

but in general, it's consistent

[wind spade]

and just to clarify - I'd be all in for a solution that would make gens behave differently when OCed. But since I'm lacking a better idea than what's currently in the game, I'm standing behind lesser evil and saying I like the current system

[keen flame]

and in fact: Whether generators scale exponentially or linearly, either situation would still be consistent with the rest of the game

[frosty owl]

Imagine people coming here to search for layouts and finding such littered discussions

[supple mural]

i dont agree with that way of thinking, but thats fine i guess

[supple mural]

ehhhhhhh

[keen flame]

I can see it

[wind spade]

well technically the current way is the best solution (if we say that there has to be some nerf) 🤷‍♂️ I don't like it, but I don't like the other solutions more 😛

[supple mural]

i dont think it makes sense to have a nerf

then again, opinion alert

personally, i get more joy out of working out effective ways to make my assembly lines and which recipes to choose rather than deciding whether or not i want to power shard my machines

having a nerf on the gens' power shard behavior adds nothing to gameplay imo

[wind spade]

well if there should be no nerf, then the solution is obvious (and also inconsistent with other machines, where shards ARE nerfed 😛 ), so I'm excluding that option

[keen flame]

actually this is a good point. so I'm with greeny now

I think the solution should be to make the math cleaner

but that's easier said than done

[muted crypt]

just have so much power that it doesn't matter anyway

[keen flame]

speaking of which: I finally finished making my full megabase plan... 😛

[muted crypt]

what's a meabase?

[keen flame]

Managed to make the whole thing work with uranium and only a handful of fuel gens

I'm still working out exactly how to separate the buildings out though. Thinking there's a few recipes I can move around to clean up transport lines still

[topaz hedge]

I is workin on da railroad

[muted crypt]

I need to get my turbofuel plant up and running soon...

[topaz hedge]

utoh

[keen flame]

I got fancy: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/731728924513533982/832376631955554334/unknown.png

[muted crypt]

I need to work on a nice looking design for the blenders here

[topaz hedge]

I fail to see what steel has to do with.. oh fused frames lol

[muted crypt]

time for planning the next step 😄 😭

[keen flame]

I've decided to make a flying city

[muted crypt]

need to decide if I'm doing 10 rows of 8, 5 rows of 16, 4 rows of 20...

(those numbers can be inverted of course, but only for the first one... I feel like 20 rows of 4 is just ridiculous)

think imma do 8 rows of 10, the numbers work out well for that

[versed violet]

Consider the belt/pipe limits far manifolds

[muted crypt]

a row of 10 would take

• 150 fuel (I have 3 pipes of 400.. yeesh)
• 300 heavy oil residue (I have 8 pipes of 300, so nice)
• 225 sulfur (I have 3 belts of 600...)
• 225 petroleum coke (I have 3 belts of 600)
  and output
• 450 turbo fuel (can supply for a 2x50 array of generators)

I wonder if I should do all of the splitting/merging and then bring all of my resources to one final point 🤔

[versed violet]

2 rows of 10 in manifold setup will be 20 buldings -> stil within limits I guess?

[topaz hedge]

worse case, you'll have to upgrade your heavy oil residue pipes to mk2. not exactly a deal breaker

[muted crypt]

they're already mk2s

[topaz hedge]

you're good then

1x mk2 pipe for turboful output?

[muted crypt]

^figured I'd drop this for reference

[deep root]

Using blended fuel right?

[muted crypt]

scroll down a bit

[deep root]

Ugh... Discord didn't update. I see it now

[muted crypt]

classic

[wary parcel]

Does head lift get set to 0 for fluids coming out of a refinery?
Maybe this has always been a thing but I'm now needing to put pumps on the input to my packagers.

[muted crypt]

it's 10m of headlift for any fluid coming out of anything that produces the fluid

so water extractor, oil extractor, refinery, blender, all that

[deep root]

My blended setups are 1 blender to 2 rows of 5 generators, for symmetry

[muted crypt]

right but I have 80 blenders in the plan

[deep root]

Right, so each blender has 10 gens it feeds

[muted crypt]

I mean sure

[wary parcel]

Is there a mod or tool that can inspect headlift? My packagers don't seem to work when directly connected to the refinery output even when built on the same floor tiles.

[muted crypt]

but I dunno if I like how that would be laid out

I think you're supposed to be able to see headlift if you're holding a pump in the build tool?

[versed violet]

slap pump close to outpu, read the gauge. as in build one on pipe and e to inspect.

[deep root]

If I was home I would run to my power setup and take a pic for you

For me it was about symmetry of setup. So I run all my pipes and belts in front of the blenders... Pipes hide under the floor and come up through wall supports clipped into 1m foundations

1 belt on main floor and 1 coming down via lift into machine

It allows me to expand my power on demand when I need to

[muted crypt]

currently in the process of properly splitting up fluids and solids for the blenders lol

[deep root]

I would do 4 rows of 20 to match your refineries

Maybe face 2 rows together to reduce the needed pipes

[versed violet]

Already suggested 😉
#math-and-meta message

[deep root]

Meh

[upbeat tide]

Just finished stage 2 of aluminum ingot prep. Getting my petro coke sorted. Making 4800 a min coke for it. I know its way more than needed, but plan to either burn the left over in coal gens, or make steel with it

Using the 1200 oil from the mid map nodes for this nuttiness

[signal nimbus]

I saw somewhere that there was a flow stabilizer for mk2 pipes. Valve with two buffers, one on either side. Does that actually work?

[upbeat tide]

@oblique hollow ^^

[oblique isle]

So, question: I have no plans with iron at this moment (just getting the ingots at this moment)
With the steamed iron ingot alt, it requires 35 iron per minute and 20 water per minute and produced 65 ingots/min
I have three 480 lines and one 225 line. 35 into 480 doesn't work nicely and I am thinking of underclocking the 480 lines to 455 lines and bringing in a 230 line to merge with the 225 line. Is this worth the struggle?

[deep root]

Manifold everything and it will balance in the end

[oblique isle]

I gave myself a challenge to load balance things

[deep root]

Then it's worth the struggle?

Except you add one refinery and underclock it to meet 480

Clock the refineries to meet the requirement imo

Not the other way around

[supple mural]

that whole does not add up to a number divisible by 35?

480 + 480 + 480 + 225 isnt divisible nicely by 35 either

basically youre gonna have to underclock something somewhere

[fringe crow]

I think my current problem I'm having is, coming from 2D Satisfactory, I can say that I want a Factory that produces "45 Science Per Min" and then from there, I can work out the math behind what I need, do a main bus, and go from there.

However, in Satisfactory, I'm struggling to figure out what I should aim for in terms of "X per Min"

I know that I can say, aim for 60 Iron Plates per min. But aiming for say, 60 Reinforced Plates per min, while possible, would require me to have 6 Pure Iron nodes dedicated to just that... And then when I get further, aiming for 60 per Min of each item, seems like a bit much.

Basically what I'm trying to say is. Are their any good "Guides" on what I should aim for in terms of Items Per Min before going crazy and aiming for 60 per min?

[supple mural]

if you dont want to be travelling too far initially, you can aim for around five-ten of something per minute

this game's scale is vastly smaller

so, making 60/min of everything needed to build a factory will be a fair number of nodes

[fringe crow]

But in terms of something like Steel Beams, where I feel I'd be using a fair bit for belts (at least early on), 10 Per Min is pretty small.

[supple mural]

this game just so happens to have an exploration aspect

[bleak coral]

But also no, this game is very self-driven. Beyond the like 10 - 20 parts per minute of building material items you need it's all arbitrary goals for fun.

[supple mural]

go and do that for an hour or two

[bleak coral]

So there's no agreed upon goals to go after, cause it's all just whatever you feel like doing

[supple mural]

and come back with slugs and hard drives

there area few goals, like max nuclear or max turbomotor/rocket/ADS etc

whatever the best choice for maximum map utilization is

[fringe crow]

Already did that to the point I started a new base in a new location.

But yeah, I get the no agreed upon goal. I'm just trying to figure out my best way forward/setting an achievable goal I suppose.

[supple mural]

a starter factory is fine only making like 10/min or less of stuff

cuz its pretty easy to just afk for an hour and have all the stuff you need

or like, work on something that doesnt need those items

and then boom, you have a full storage container

[icy sun]

will i unlock a thing to let me route power through a ceiling?

[topaz hedge]

in awesomeshop.. the best only shop on the planet

[icy sun]

i just see the double one that goes through a wall. do more recipes unlock later?

[signal nimbus]

You can clip cables through ceilings. If you go from a power pole on top to a ceiling mounted power pole right below it, the cable will be invisible.

@fringe crow Easiest way to set achievable goals is to focus on progressing through the tech tiers, automating everything as you go. Don't worry about getting a lot, just a few per minute is fine. Once everything is unlocked and every material is available, what I'm planning on doing is building outposts for each moderately more complicated item. Heavy Modular Frames, Computers, Crystal Oscilators, and Aluminum are top of the list, and I'm mostly shooting for nice ratios between 60 and 120 items per minute. Of course, those each feed into larger projects for heavy encased frames, supercomputers, and turbo motors, but planning can be done ahead of time. Each on those projects will take a while, so I wouldn't worry about an end goal while you're practicing your skills and methods on intermediate goals.

[oblique isle]

My solution was to combine the 225 line with 230 line to get 455 then reduced the 480 lines to 455 lines

[icy sun]

either I made a mistake or I don't understand power correctly. With the below image (squares being biomass) I should be able to connect anything to the outgoing wire on the bottom and then power any generator right?

[muted crypt]

yes

power doesn't look for a position relative to something else, or how much of something is there... it just checks for a connection

[icy sun]

mkay, i'll go through them again then, ty

(my battery is way bigger than this, but the concept is the same. It's gotta be a wiring error then)

[muted crypt]

power storage can be chained together, i.e. they can each have two connections to themselves

either going between storages in a sequence or to connect to a wire outside of the system to send to the rest of your factory

[supple mural]

lights can also be daisy-chained

realizes that convo was over an hour ago

[glacial tinsel]

im thinking a 40 length manifold is probably a bad idea right?

[supple mural]

fluids? yes

conveyors? probably fine

[glacial tinsel]

the pure copper recipe is dumb

600 raw copper into 40 refineries

water should be fine, i have 2 extractors at each end oversupplying 20

[supple mural]

thats good

a fluid manifold that long needs at least a little oversupply

belt manifolds are much more stable

you can have a belt manifold 100 machines long and it would be fine

[glacial tinsel]

eventually it would be

[supple mural]

heh, eventually

god help you if you have large stack sizes involves

[glacial tinsel]

im never sure what level of belts i should be using for these manifolds

[supple mural]

highest available always works for me

[glacial tinsel]

my current theory is mk5 for inputs, only as much as needed for outputs

[supple mural]

aluminum belts are so much cheaper than any other belt

so might as well use them

[glacial tinsel]

cost is irrelevant to me at this point

my starter base has a industrial chest of each and no matter how much i take they always are full again by the time i come back

[supple mural]

yeah, youre never hurting for belt materials in the late game

[glacial tinsel]

the only thing im hurting for at this point is time and space

[supple mural]

arent we all...

[glacial tinsel]

im actually concerned the entire northern ocean isnt enough space for my base

[supple mural]

just uh... take over the rocky desert

or take "the sky's the limit!" seriously

[glacial tinsel]

i already paved the ocean

lets just make a 2nd floor

issue then becomes access to water

[supple mural]

pipe it from the west sea?

if you need that much

[glacial tinsel]

yea, i just gotta be smart about where im putting the parts that require water

[supple mural]

if you put the things that need water on the outskirts of your base you can just have water extractors around the edge

[glacial tinsel]

using pure recipes for the entire maps worth of resources takes up ALOT of space, the water demand isnt insane, but refineries are massive

[supple mural]

using pure on everything sounds like masochism

[glacial tinsel]

🙃

my goal is 240 assembly directory systems/min

[supple mural]

i wish you luck

[glacial tinsel]

you got a time machine i could borrow?

otherwise i'll see you in 2022

[supple mural]

unfortunately its in for repairs right now

otherwise i would lend it to you

[glacial tinsel]

unfortunate

well, i guess this month is copper

[lament jolt]

So after thinking it over for a bit, I think I'll turn my current home base into a 6 fold factory, making all things copper and iron up to rotors/motors...thinking 8 or 16 smelters per iron/copper node, and matching constructors/assemblers, and a few odd machines...is one mid size factory with either 48 or 96 smelters too much? I will eventually get the mk4 belts once I can unlock fuel gens...but I don't remember where the mk3 miners got moved to...

I just have to wonder how many hours it will take me to get everything just right...and if my sanity will stay intact

[glacial tinsel]

mk3 miners are super late now

if you are still working through the tiers, you'll be on mk2 for most of it

[topaz hedge]

super late, and super expensive

[oblique hollow]

Sorry for the late reply. Yes, it works well within limits. Be sure to place a pump before and after the Stabilizer Circuit.
It reduces fluctuations quite a bit, which helps with reading the flow

Let me find the schematic....

[signal nimbus]

Okay, cool... does that work with pulling 600 from an extractor as well?

[oblique hollow]

It should.
Left one is the normal Equalizer.
Right is the more advanced one, which is VERY slow, but also super accurate

So you need to give it some time to adjust when you first connect it to your source

Make sure that its all built evenly on flat ground

[signal nimbus]

Awesome, thanks. Spin-up time is a non-issue for me, but right off the top of my head... couldn't you add a valve before and after one of the buffers, turn that line off, spin it up faster, and then worry about the other one?

[oblique hollow]

Oh no, they need to be empty

Thats what makes it work

[signal nimbus]

Oh?

[oblique hollow]

They act as fluid compensators

If you have a steady flow of 600, its a bit tricky since the pipe cant fluctuate that much anyway

[signal nimbus]

Explain it to me like I just got out of fluid dynamics and don't know that exact terminology.

[oblique hollow]

If you have a very slow flow like 120:

Normally it varies between 80 and 140 or so, right?

[signal nimbus]

Right.

[topaz hedge]

hiya pipe senpai

[oblique hollow]

So, when its high, it fills the buffers.
But when its low, the buffers feed back into the pipe!

[signal nimbus]

Ah... okay, gotcha.

[oblique hollow]

So they compensate a sudden drop

And because of some funky pipe and pressure math, the Interpolator cant change very fast

I dont myself know why quite exactly, but my guess is because the flow gets split in 3 and then added back together

I simply know that it behaves like that

[signal nimbus]

Okay, gotcha. Makes sense. Basically tricking the game math, I take it?

[supple mural]

its also likely slow because its draining while filling

[oblique hollow]

Something lile that.

[supple mural]

if you didnt let any liquid through it would fill up faster, right?

[oblique hollow]

Yeah, but thats not the point of this

[supple mural]

its like a flow stabilizer?

[oblique hollow]

Since full buffers would just output 600, but thats not good for low flow rates

[oblique hollow]

Yes, thats their point. Thats what they are designed for

Equalizer for a bit of stabilization, interpolator for very strong stabilization

But the interpolator hates when the Input flow gets cut off

Then its a bit jerky until the buffers have emptied more

But i guess thats the thing with strong filters: instability

Thats why: "It works well within limits"

Equalizer can handle anything

But its not as strong as the Interpolator

[supple mural]

do they work when the output is max of the pipe?

like 300 or 600?

[oblique hollow]

Yeah, but then they basically have nothing to compensate

So they kinda useless there

If you have 300 / 600 in and are worried about flow dropping, you need a backup buffer to the side, not a stabilizer

[supple mural]

what about a valve -> buffer tank -> valve?

would that not achieve the same thing?

[oblique hollow]

You could abuse the Equalizer i guess. If you prefill it, that would work for max flow

[oblique hollow]

Its better to use pumps in that case, since those dont allow head lift feedback, unlike valves

Buut i have doubts about inline buffers

[supple mural]

whys that?

head lift loss?

[oblique hollow]

Well, it could work if you prefill it.

But using inline buffers anywhere else is problematic since they dont allow head lift from pumps to pass through until full

Which is why i always recommend a pump before and after the buffer

[supple mural]

makes sense

thats what i would do as well

whats the advantage of having the buffer in parallel with the pipe? instead of inline

[oblique hollow]

You avoid that issue entirely

[supple mural]

im not sure

[oblique hollow]

.... Actually yeah

Sorry its early in the morning

[supple mural]

unless you have a pump after the equalizer, the tank will still need to fill up before head lift goes through

[oblique hollow]

The real reason is that the flow rate doesnt fluctuate as much that way

[supple mural]

eh, i havent tested it, so youre probably more knowledgeable here

[oblique hollow]

Inline buffers dont do anything for flow stabilization

Second to last graphic

If you have them parallel, you can just add pumps at the input and output

And then the buffers only fill once the output backs up

Unlike inline

[supple mural]

its also early morning for me

so its a bit hard to think hard about it

[oblique hollow]

Fluid Dynamics isnt the best thing to start your day with

[supple mural]

eheh

ive not just gotten out of bed

the other type of morning

[oblique hollow]

Just in general: parallel buffers are easier to deal with

Thats it.

Head Lift issues? Add pumps before and after

[supple mural]

then they'd have an easier time equalizing with eachother?

cuz instead of the fluid hanging around in the first tank its split between them all and the remerged at the other side

[oblique hollow]

That too

Inline buffers are very unpredictable when it comes to balancing each other

[supple mural]

although if the buffers are arranged vertically with the first buffers in the line at the top of the stack, then inline wont really have a problem

because the fluid in the top tank will want to fall

etc to the bottom tank

[oblique hollow]

Just that you nees a lot of head lift to fill that tower

While buffers on the ground all need the same 8 or 12 m jead lift

[supple mural]

eh, all you need is the input pipe to be managed

50m is like four tanks

of the big kind

[oblique hollow]

Then again i see no reason why you would need 50 buffers anyway

[supple mural]

its just a way to concentrate the fluid into the last tank in the line

yeah, buffers arent as useful as they used to be i guess

with train stations thats like it

[oblique hollow]

They still have their usages: train stations, temporary compensation, my funny circuits, etc

They do just what their name says: buffer fluids temporarily

[supple mural]

also testing if fluid at a higher elevation will be prioritized over fluid at a lower elevation

based on a crude test i did fluid at a higher elevation was prioritizes

[oblique hollow]

It should kind of be, but its not easy to say how a full pipe will react

[supple mural]

or i should say fluid source

i have a full ind buffer way above a water extractor, and the ind tank went dry before the extractor started back up

i had no valves or pumps

and i drained it into another ind buffer

[vast jungle]

I am brooding about Tier 7/8 recipes at the moment...

what do you think about the Turbo Electric Motor recipe?

I need to build Radio Control Units... and now I am thinking about making Electromagnetic Control Rods, Turbo Electric Motors and maybe OC Supercomputer within the same factory... they seem to fit together quite nicely

[glacial hemlock]

Head lift can be power free.

[cloud marlin]

im lost. i just started last tier. I got aluminum sheets and casings going. Wanted to start radio control units production but i dont know how much is enough for all recipes in the game and to have some left over for building

[vast jungle]

Just start small and build a second factory as soon as you know more

[cloud marlin]

turbo electric motor seems not worth it

[vast jungle]

I have exactly the same problem

[cloud marlin]

i would go with turbo pressure motor unless you want to min max

[vast jungle]

I like the idea of turbo electric motors

[cloud marlin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/mnwugx/update_4_alternate_recipe_indepth_analysis/ take a look at this

[vast jungle]

I am still not convinced... The point for me it's that the tem would for great into other production processes

Nitrogen is not that nice to transport unless you package it, which is a lot of additional effort

[upbeat tide]

You know your a min maxed when half your most used alts are in F tier 🙂

The pure alts, fused quickwire, cheap silica, etc

[upbeat tide]

? You need no pumps on a nitrogen line. Its not that bad.

[vast jungle]

Okay, this list is not that great... Wet Concrete is f? Are they silly?

[wind spade]

the list is for "casual players", not for resource optimisations

[turbid wigeon]

so if coal plants burn 45m3 of water a minute, and pumps generate 120m3 of water a minute, why is it that my plant keeps failing when i have 15 coal plants and 19 water pumps?

15x45 is 675 water burned a minute

19x120 is 2280

[wind spade]

do you have all of it in one pipe?

[turbid wigeon]

dont tell me that is the issue

gosh darn it

[wind spade]

pipe can only do 300m3 per minute

I recommend doing a 3:8 setup

[turbid wigeon]

so i have to section off my water?

3 pumps to 8 plants?

[wind spade]

  G  G  G  G
E-+--+--+--+
E-+
E-+--+--+--+
  G  G  G  G

like this

E = extractor
G = generator

- and + are pipes and pipe junctions

[turbid wigeon]

would i be able to put water storage in between the gens?

or would that eat up too much water?

[wind spade]

you can put water storages in there, but I'd recommend filling them before turning the gens on

[upbeat tide]

This is another way to show how to do a 3:8 setup

[wind spade]

why is there a bridge? that should be a connection

[upbeat tide]

Hmm just noticed that

Used Visio to make that, gonna have to mess around

[muted crypt]

I plan to go through and do some sort of analysis soon™️ I just need to find the time away from work to do it lol

I realize that convo was a while ago but meh

[serene dust]

i need help getting 2 streams of coal

in a ratio of 160/45

nvm

i need help making a 41 splitter

[quiet sable]

lmao

Can't you just turn the output machine of one to use the exact % and saturate it to get the correct flow?

@serene dust

[serene dust]

imma still try making a 41 splitter

[bleak coral]

A 41 splitter would be fucking huge, I'd look for some alternate solution. What are you trying to do?

[quiet sable]

It wouldn't be that huge

[serene dust]

get 160 for encased beams and 45 for pipes

[sand garnet]

lol why would you want a 41 splitter precisely, when you can just make a manifold and let overflow handle it

[serene dust]

yeah

[bleak coral]

Split at the steel, not the coal. And don't combine the 45 and 160 in the first place.

[quiet sable]

Output level for splitters would be 14, so you'd have a total of 22 splitters

Rather than 1

[fringe crow]

So, friend and me are arguing.

Stitched Iron Plates, or, Steel Screws for Reinforced Iron Plates.

[gusty nexus]

if you have iron wire, stitched iron plates is more efficient than the normal recipes

i think you're probably better served saving steel for other things

[bleak coral]

Comparison with no pure recipes or oil:
Stitched:

Regular:

[tribal elk]

Hey, I have a weird problem, I have a fluid production that produces 210 Heavy Oil Residue (from plastic and rubber production) and different systems that are using it (2x cabel production 1x Petroleum Coke [running on 75%] and 3x Diluted Fuel) every thing calculates out 0 + or - but my fulid buffer still gets empty.

Same problem with the Fuel Generators that are using the Fuel they should consume 300 Fule per min (25 Generators) but the buffer also gets empty.....

I have zero ideas why this keeps happening....

[upbeat tide]

Id persobally go with casted screw over steel screw. But thats coming from a madman that used bolted frames in my HMF factory

[bleak coral]

like notsoy said, stitched is way more resource efficient. And you only have slightly less machines with steel screws + regular.

overall power is also very close to eachother

[upbeat tide]

Are all your machines running correctly? If so an empty storage container is a good thing to see. Means you have no left over goods

[tribal elk]

They do, but I let it fill up half full and it emptys idk why

It should stay on the same levels if everything works good

[upbeat tide]

Because the tank is prioritized and empties. It sounds like you really dont even need a buffer tank unless im missing something.

[tribal elk]

hm okay

[tribal elk]

but how can it empty if everything else was full?

[cloud marlin]

would 12 radio control units/min be a safe number to start with?

[upbeat tide]

Honestly, pipes are weird things. I wouldnt stress too much as long as the system works properly even on an empty buffer

[tribal elk]

oof yeah ik

[upbeat tide]

For what goal?

[cloud marlin]

for end game

[tribal elk]

Seems like they pump some of it in to the void xD

[cloud marlin]

whatever, i will adjust % to my needs

[upbeat tide]

They are used for end game buildings so sounds decent for starting

[tribal elk]

I mean I mostly concentrate on having nice factory and not to produce as much as possible so I only produce 5 per minute lol

[upbeat tide]

Im sitting here gathering all the resources needed to produce 9780 a min aluminum ingots...dis getting big and I have not even put one refinery down yet

[icy sun]

how can i early game merge these two concrete belts without building wider than one foundation tile?

and have it look neater than moving the merger left one space and having both belts sorta noodle into it

[shrewd kelp]

I think you've described the only solution

[icy sun]

alrighty, ty!

[upbeat tide]

im liking how this aluminum plant is coming along so far

[icy sun]

oh that's lovely

[upbeat tide]

not even finished yet with one module

then will just repeat it as needed

[idle fiber]

If you move the merger to the right by one, you could use conveyor lifts and only have to noodle the middle conveyor belt

[icy sun]

cool, ima save that image

[thin fiber]

sorry to ask, I havent gone as far but i was wondering what is the maximum level the machines and convoyer belts can be (ex : mk.1, mk.2...)

[idle fiber]

It does mean that your merger output won't be centered but you could just noodle that back to the center of the platform lol

[upbeat tide]

full module. will make me 600 a min alu ingots

[idle fiber]

belts and lifts: mk 5
miners: mk 3
fluid extractors: mk 1
pipelines: mk 2
pipeline pumps: mk 2
power poles/wall outlets: mk 3

[supple mural]

power poles max at mk 3 with ten connections

and no crafting machine has a mk number

[icy sun]

I will be back for questions once I get past chainsawing like a caveman over here

[barren quartz]

You sectioning off bauxite inputs to their own production chain or doing sections for each step? Trying to decide between those, also making that up next

[rare surge]

Math check please

Using the alternate Steal Ingot recipe of 2 iron ingots + 2 coal = 3 steel (PR: 60/minute).

I have 4 mk3 belts of each input, which means I need 27 foundries:

4 * 270 = 1080 iron and 1080 coal supplied/minute

60 / 3 * 2 = 40 iron and 40 coal needed/minute for each foundry

1080 / 40 = 27 foundries needed

[upbeat tide]

Doing it on a node by node basis

Kinda more funky to mix imo.

[barren quartz]

Definitely more fun, also seems like the best way to deal with that amount of items/min for exporting too

[shrewd mortar]

can someone tell me the BEST place to set up a mega base, i thought it would be great in the right side of the desert but i wanna make sure im not missing a better place

[glossy sapphire]

Sky (:

[signal nimbus]

For size? Yeah, that's not a bad area. Over-used, thanks to Kibs, but it's a good spot.

Rocky Desert is a pretty decent area as well, the canyon in the north isn't bad, and technically the swamp is pretty level too.

For logistics, however, the crater lake area wins. Nothing is "on the other side of the map", because you're in the middle of the map. You're pretty close to the Bauxite Belt, if not right on it, and not far from nuclear stuff either. Also, water right there and it's a relatively short distance to the bay with all the oil.

[shrewd mortar]

Thnks ill check it, seems nice

[signal nimbus]

Np. I'll save you some heartache, though, and point out that you're going to have issues with lag if you go with a mega-base. Might consider at least a few outposts to reduce machines, belts, and lag.

[shrewd mortar]

Yeah i think i ll have to be reasonnable otherwise my pc will turn to a firecamp

Though the crater lake is quite far from any iron or basic minerals

[signal nimbus]

Mmm... so, I'll share a bit of my master plan for that. The mega-base doesn't handle every production chain of every item, just the end products. My HMF factory I'm planning will need hundreds of constructors and assemblers, but only 32 manufacturers. Those manufacturers might be in the end base, but the rest will be spread around closer to the source materials.

[shrewd mortar]

Ooooh

[signal nimbus]

Mhm. At a bare minimum, the refining processes.

[shrewd mortar]

Damit u are going To build a city

[signal nimbus]

Nope. Too much lag.

A network would be more accurate.

Also too much work to make a city.

[shrewd mortar]

Yeah if u plan to create a city u dont see the sun anymore

But thanks for ur help

[signal nimbus]

Np

[manic pecan]

Hey I unlocked Stitched & Iron Wire but this is my first time messing with alt recipes. The numbers behind stitched/iron wire seem really messy so idk how to begin to build a decent factory for it. Any tips for dealing w rough numbers

I tried to OC to make things cleaner but is there an easier way to find the ratios other than doing it myself via trial/error

[bleak coral]

You can underclock instead of overclock. So same thing you're doing, just with extra machines and more efficient power.

[supple mural]

just take the number of items you need, and divide it by the production rate of the recipe

[bleak coral]

Some recipes just have purposefully shitty ratios, and you have to go pretty big to get them all right. Plus all the extra headache of even finding a good ratio that doesn't mess up any part of the chain.

[supple mural]

change the production rate in that equation by under or overclocking

[bleak coral]

Just easier to mess with clockspeed.

[supple mural]

you can underclock iron wire to 88.88% and overclock stitched to 106.66% to get a nice 2:1 ratio

or 3:2 if you underclock stitched to 80%

its essentially trial and error

[frank spade]

Quick reminder: What's the base ratio for extractors-coalgenerators? 1-2.5? 1-3?

[topaz hedge]

my aluminoom plant 4200 bauxite into 4200 ingots, divided up with 300:300 4 refinery sections

[topaz hedge]

8:3 coal gens.. 2.666666666666667 gens to 1 extractor

[upbeat tide]

My solution. Still a WIP but modular based on each node of bauxite

600 bauxite > 600 ingots

[topaz hedge]

Your's is prettier. mine's modular too, it's just combined into one big thing

[upbeat tide]

Oh mine will to, gonna get funky with pure nodes

Not so pretty machine ratios

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, man I had done that once with pure nodes.. and I had all kinds of issues and pretty much decided that all nodes are 300 or 600 each

[upbeat tide]

Slightly older screenshot but shows the underbelly beltwork

[topaz hedge]

like we got it to work and do what it's supposed to with the pure nodes.. but.. all the balancers and nasty ratios.. pretty much decided that I can get all the aluminium i need by just tapping more nodes lol

That's very clean ^^ you gonna go for all the aluminum again?

[upbeat tide]

Ceee yup

Got 4800 petro coke delivered here too. I know its too much but whatever isnt used in aluminum will either become more power or steel, maybe even circuit boards. Inconclusive there

[upbeat tide]

And thats why im breaking it down based on each node. Impures get combined as two act as a normal 🙂

[upbeat tide]

what I have currently done, two normal nodes so far

[topaz hedge]

Ah, very nice. any plans for all that al? I see you're using pure aluminum too.. the 1:1 bauxite is too good to pass up for no silica

[upbeat tide]

Indeed. Not too sure on the alclad/casing ratio tho. May just add as I need.

[potent magnet]

what is a good ratio to split iron ingots into plates, rods, and screws? i have stitched iron plate, but not casted screws. producing 360 ingots per min.

[cosmic verge]

Has anyone done the calculations yet for at what distance between two points are drones better than trains? (ie, what would be the minimum distance when drones would be the better option over using a train) Or maybe the better question: are drones ever the better option barring easier set up and cost?

[muted crypt]

Drones have small inventory space and require a solid resource rather than just access to power.

I don't think there are any instances where they are better than trains where both are applicable options.

[cosmic verge]

That was my thinking as well, but wanted to double check. Thanks! 🙂

[sand epoch]

I'll never go back to trains. Pita. Drones everywhere FTW

[round iron]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[muted crypt]

iron plates?

[round iron]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[muted crypt]

You can look at the recipe in a constructor and see how much of any given ingredient it requires per minute for a recipe

[round iron]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[cyan hinge]

guys can someone solve this problem for me

[wind spade]

I think it would help if you'd describe the problem

[cyan hinge]

ya ya 😆

[sand garnet]

The answer is 42

[cyan hinge]

the problem is that that the im in the phaze of the steel ingot production and the coal is 856 m far away so should I use trucks to transport it to my main base or should I make the production lines there like 856m away from my base the hyper tubes are unlocked

[wind spade]

or transport via belts 🤷‍♂️

it's really up to you, just a fair warning - trucks are pretty inconsistent and you may run into issues with them

[cyan hinge]

hmm

belts would be kinda tedious

[slender basalt]

856m is up close, trucks I don't like to use, having to spend time configuring and they can bug some times

[wind spade]

it's just 800m of belts 🤷‍♂️

what I'd do is find nearby iron and move the coal there

instead of moving everything to "main base"

[cyan hinge]

ohh

that seems interesting

[slender basalt]

I've done 5 km of belts 😂

[cyan hinge]

omg

[cyan hinge]

which mk

[slender basalt]

Mk4

[cyan hinge]

ok

i have mk 3 so ya 270 or 240 whatever its not that great

[sand garnet]

mk3 is 270

[cyan hinge]

ya

[cyan hinge]

not that gr8

[sand garnet]

its really great for that point in the game

[valid prawn]

i somehow need to take 3/19ths of an output off a belt for overflow and i'm struggling to wrap my head around it (i then have to split the rest of it into a 3/4 and 1/4 output but that's manageable), any ideas?

[wind spade]

manifold

--S--S--S-...
  |  |  |
  X  X  X

as long as your input is sufficient, it'll work

just takes some time to fill (or you can pre-fill it, or turn on the factory after it is filled)

[valid prawn]

ah yeah lmao, didn't think of that, cheers

[glacial hemlock]

Replace any splitter in the manifold with smart splitter, set the overflow output and you are done.

[red plover]

In my opinion, this doesn't create any added benefit once the manifold is full and it's much more costly than regular splitters

It simply helps the manifold fill faster

[glacial hemlock]

I am answering the sol's question right above this msg

[rapid edge]

Any suggestion how to split up 1333.3 turbofuel on 297 fuel generators?

[wicked tinsel]

three 10x10 floors with one generator missing on each floor for cross floor pipelines? :x

[red plover]

29 rows of 10, 1 row of 7

[rapid edge]

ok but how to splitup the fuel in the pipes to have the equal amount of fuel in all of the pipes

[upbeat tide]

Dont bother with equal pipes. Try to keep each pipe at around 400m3 or lower IMO

Such as my own 2400m3 TF power plant uses 8 pipes at 300m3 each

[red plover]

What you can do is feed 1 pipe to 6 rows, and on the 7th row, have the first pipe and the next pipe feed into it, and the second pipe feeds into the 7th row through 14th row, 3rd pipe does 14th through 21st, etc

double up on your rows and insert more TF where needed

[upbeat tide]

I did rows of 34 (33.33) and two rows per pipe

[rapid edge]

ok, ty i'll give it a try

[frosty owl]

I think you're safe to stay at 575 or lower, no need to limit yourself at 400 ^^

[deep root]

Math works out better at 400?

[wind spade]

it's just about pipe throughput

max pipes are broken

[deep root]

Yeah I know that 🙂

[upbeat tide]

For diluted fuel, yes math does work out great at 400, because the recipe makes 100/min at 100%

[deep root]

But keeping mk2 at 400 might make the math work out better...I dunno

[upbeat tide]

Its alsp better for HOR refineries. Seeing as 300m3 oil makes 400m3 HOR in 10 refineries

[cedar mica]

Is it that max pipes are broken or that using 600 from it, is broken? IE, having 600, but using 500-550 of it

[upbeat tide]

Its the same issue with max mk5 belts

[deep root]

Mk2 pipes only hold 575 give or take

[deep root]

I wouldn't say that...The belt issue is tied to fps mainly isn't it?

[cedar mica]

Was a time the sink could not keep up with 780, even on fresh save

[upbeat tide]

Not that I am aware of

Its not a fps issue I mean

[deep root]

I was asking questions about 780 belts and what not to get my trains right, and the consensus was that the belt won't carry 780 when your fps isn't 60

[cedar mica]

Its more a math issue, on the programming side, I think

Same reason we dont have 1200 belts yet

[deep root]

Belting a miner straight into an ISC then using 2 belts out will help maintain a 780 output

So I was told

[cedar mica]

Wonder if a splitter, would do the same thing

[deep root]

Huh, that's not a bad thought

I can say, I just finished setting up a bauxite/aluminum factory that uses 780 bauxite (one belt merged from 2 nodes atm) and spits out 2 belts of 780 scrap. I've not seen it drop below 780

And now as I look back on my facility I realize I miscalculated how many ingots I'm creating so I have WAY too many freight cars for that train LOL

[upbeat tide]

This is a sample of my aluminum plant. This is for a single normal bauxite node. It produces 1200 scrap spmit into two belts.

Slop solution
600 bauxite
180 water

Electrode scrap
720 solution
240 petrocoke
1200 scrap
420 water

Pure aluminum ingot
600 ingots

A pure node can be done in a very similar way, but it will use 312 petrocoke which is just funky. Personally will plan closer to 750 so that number is 300. Sucks to lose a bit, but its just too funky. Also my petrocoke belts ate 600 each

And impures are smaller setups, best combined if possible but not always a option

[muted crypt]

Is it just alts all the way down for making aluminum now?

[upbeat tide]

In mine yes.

Completely cuts out silica. Only downside is that I lose 33% total aluminum ingots possible

From a map max of 13040 to 9780 possible

[deep root]

I prefer all alts as well, worth it not to need the silica

[deep root]

Why is 312 funky? Underclocking is easy...

[upbeat tide]

Funky for full 780 bauxite usage

Underclocking is already in the picture

[deep root]

Right, I don't understand your wanting to use 300 instead of 312...

[upbeat tide]

Because my petro coke belts are all 600. It would be kinda akward I feel is all

[deep root]

Ahhhh, okay. I just made a coke setup at the factory itself, so no need to bring other coke belts in 🙂 gotcha

[upbeat tide]

Mine is trained, but even still 312 is akwaward even at the coke making stage

In hindsight I could just set it up this way and deal with it.

[deep root]

I mean...manifold is manifold so yeah, but I get your point

Your method also alleviates the 780 belt bug too

[upbeat tide]

Setting to 750 tho...soo much cleaner too

Yea gonna lose ingots but 🤷‍♂️

[deep root]

I'm currently not losing any at 780

<@&387163995947270144> 2nd time @zenith crypt has tried pinging everyone....

[oblique perch]

That enough for you?

[deep root]

LOL

[novel silo]

like how he writes (PROOOVES??)

[bleak coral]

It's funny when they think mods can't see deleted/edited messages

[novel silo]

yes xD

[deep root]

Some people just don't understand how discord works shrug

[upbeat tide]

I remember when Discord first added a proper audit log. It wasy glorious

[bleak coral]

Did delete/edit become a thing before the log?

[muted crypt]

You couldn't see anything without a bot's help.

[upbeat tide]

Yea it was always there even before

[deep root]

Honestly, there is no point except to be a troll when you come to a server with thousands of people on it and try to ping everyone

[muted crypt]

What's unfortunate is that audit log is still kinda doodoo, because unless it's been updated recently, it won't note down when (for example) someone deletes their own message - only someone else's

[upper whale]

where can i get that

[deep root]

@upper whale https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/

[fringe crow]

So right now I have one factory producing 20 Reinforced Iron Plates a min.
It also produces 133.33 Wires a min, and 66.67 Iron plates a min.

I'm doing a smart Splitter inline with any overflow of Wire and Plates to go to storage, along with my Reinforced Iron Plates into storage.

My question really is: Should I merge the output of all three of that factory's output to one line, and from there, pump it into storage using smart splitters and any overflow go to a Sink?

Or is there a better way?

[upbeat hinge]

That’s fine as long as your total output doesn’t exceed the belt speed. Or you bring them into storage on separate belts and overflow to a single sink line.

[fringe crow]

I think either way if the combined output exceeds the line, I'm bone right?

[muted crypt]

Correct^^

[fringe crow]

I'll also never get the overflow of Wires and Plates either as they'll always be producing Reinforced... hmm

Alright, thanks.

[nova steppe]

Is it better to overproduce everything and use what you have left to use for other productions, or to make an line for rotors just for motors (for example). Like make 60 rotors/min to use mb 10 of that for motors and other productions, or create 10 rotors/min for storage and make a new 10 rotors/min purely for Motors.

[wind spade]

I usually start from ores for most of my productions, it's easier to scale that way as you aren't dependent on other factories

[hard rune]

how do fuel generators work? at 100% it's using 12m3 a minute but at 50% its 7 instead of 6. there something i'm missing?

[bleak coral]

yeah, they don't scale linearly, maths: https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Clock_speed#Clock_speed_for_power_generators

[hard rune]

to simulate how it is in reality?

[bleak coral]

I mean giant slugs overclocking machines isn't real so...... no?

[hard rune]

also my fuel numbers are matching up (generation = consumption) but the generators are still not functioning continuously, how much headroom do i need?

hm, then why

[bleak coral]

it's a balance thing I assume, I also hate it cause it's just confusing

[hard rune]

it isn't even explained anywhere in the game

[upbeat hinge]

Yea, the 2nd point was more of a side thought on the alternative method. But yea, in either case output still needs to be less than belt speed 😛

[bleak coral]

try to disconnect them all from poles and let them and the pipes fill up with fuel. pipes behave better when the system is full, helps with fluctuations

[hard rune]

aight

[supple mural]

id underclock one of your fuel gens slightly so that you have like a half a unit fo fuel per minute extra

so that the system eventually fills up completely

cuz if production is exactly matched to consumption its a real pain in the ass to get it to work right

[bleak coral]

that helps too

[supple mural]

also relevant meme @hard rune #satisfactory-memes message

[nova steppe]

Petition to be able to add splitters to conveyers in a vertical way, would make my overflow system alot cleaner

Top left is what I mean, bottom right is what we currently have to do

[shadow prairie]

You can send Questions, Feedback, Suggestions, and Bug Reports at https://questions.satisfactorygame.com

<3 @bleak coral

[nova steppe]

Oh ye mb

[bleak coral]

I'm pretty sure there's already a post for it, so just find that one and upvote it

[hard rune]

what i ended up doing was just removing one outright so i have more headroom and overclocked one to use 13 instead of 12

[upbeat tide]

so far just one more pure node to setup and I will have 3000 alu ingots/min

[sand garnet]

how many ingots is this setup

[upbeat tide]

3000

Taking in 3060 bauxite from 2x pure, 2x normal, and an impure node

[sand garnet]

damn, im surprised at how small this setup is for 3000

[upbeat tide]

I elected to lower the pure node from 780 to 750 for a few reasons, biggest was petro coke need

Well, the one to the far right needs to be duplicated once more

But not much left indeed

your also not seeing the belt work from up top. Its all down below

[sand garnet]

the coloring is nice for pipes

much easier to understand where everything goes

[upbeat tide]

Yea I color all my pipes based on use.

[oblique hollow]

i color all my pipes based on content

so i instantly know what flows where

same for my machines, they are colored based on the product

[oblique hollow]

@frosty owl @bleak coral I think i finally resolved the "manifold bug"

[bleak coral]

What'd you do?

[oblique hollow]

draw per line: exactly 30

valve shows 30.7, but 30.7 * 10 would equal 307, but none of them drops

so therefore: valves have a display inaccuracy of about 2%

at first i saw reaading of below 300 on the output

and i though "AHA! Bug confirmed!"

buuut..... as soon as the output pipes saturated, things looked...... good

[bleak coral]

if that 2% display bug is accurate then that has some bad implications elsewhere

people love to use those things to control flow, even when they don't need to

[oblique hollow]

its really only a display bug, more or less

its not really 30.7 flow

its precisely 30

[bleak coral]

yeah but if say you put it in front of a generator and set it to 15/m, it won't get the full 15/m

[oblique hollow]

because pressure

[bleak coral]

oh wait, are you saying it's just showing the flowrate wrong, not that the setting you set is 2% off?

[oblique hollow]

its just the display thats wrong. slight inaccuracy, the math is still fine

but what you mean is probably this:

[bleak coral]

ok gotcha, I was worried the setting was wrong

[oblique hollow]

nope, that works fine

but flow through a valve entirely depends on pressure

aka how full the bubble icon is

[bleak coral]

as always: full pipes are happy pipes

[oblique hollow]

yep

[bleak coral]

I've already started to advise people to let power generators fill up with liquids first before connecting them to the grid

[oblique hollow]

also this

this is exactly the issue: until the pipes equalize with volume, no valve will output the correct amount

which is why too many valves is bad

it takes too long for the feed pipe to reach the right pressure

[bleak coral]

it's cause the liquids want to go the path of least resistance right?

[oblique hollow]

aye, its like with electricity

[bleak coral]

I feel like the instinct to use them as output limiters is generally bad, and it's better to use them as input limiters and backflow stops

[oblique hollow]

if you have a 1000 k Ohm resistor one path and a 1 ohm resistor the other, most of the current will take the 1 ohm path

[frosty owl]

Btw, is there a way to easily change generators from fuel to turbofuel?
I flushed the whole pipe system, and yet I had to manually delete the residue fuel in the generators before the turbofuel could get in :disappointed_snutt:

[sacred root]

Can anyone help my small bird brain? I got 4 belts with each 210 screws, I need 8 belts each 140 screws. How would you set up a balancer for that?

[frosty owl]

That doesn't add up...

[sacred root]

Ah

6 belts 140

[oblique hollow]

its a 4 to 6 then

ooooor just manifold xd

[frosty owl]

140 is quite the annoying number to balance...
Unless you have belt speed limitations a 4:6 might be the easiest solution

[bleak coral]

I mean they only hold enough fuel for about 4 minutes of operation, so you could just run them down right? or does that leave a tiny bit left?

[frosty owl]

Yep, the tiny bit was enough to have all 60 gens stuck, needing me to babysit them and clear their inventories

I waited for them to starve themselves then flushed the pipe network, but :/

[sacred root]

Thanks, Speed limited unfortunately otherwise I'd scale it differently

[versed violet]

Geo-power question:
Does all geysers on map cycle in paralel, or each has random period, so they should 'balance' each other?

[dense saffron]

how about the new update where they work no matter the powerdraw?

[dense saffron]

I think that they 'balance' each other (still advised to use power storage

[bleak coral]

they need to be connected to a pole or machine to work, if they're not connected they don't work but still take in materials

to be specific, they need to be connected to absolutely nothing

[dense saffron]

I got my generators toggle able with a fuse (that new power switch), so I thought that they were always on

[bleak coral]

yes that counts, they must not have a wire going to them at all

[dense saffron]

and I disable one at the end so the pipes can fill up

(production for 33.333 gens, only 33 gens active)

[topaz hedge]

Well, I suppose that's accurate about the pipes and electricity.. except electricity takes ALL paths

the pipes on here.. not so much.

[dense saffron]

I have/had pipe problems

480 gen and 400 use on a long pipe

didn't like it

[topaz hedge]

the best way to deal with pipes.. is not to use single pipe feeds... use 2 or 3 pipe feeds for everything

I think that's what they wanted us to do... and that's why 8 coal gens use 360 water

[frosty owl]

Eh, if you stay below 570ish it's fine~~

[topaz hedge]

but having lotsapipes just looks cool ven

[bleak coral]

P̶͂̓I̵̒̆P̸̛̔E̸̅̕

[frosty owl]

I read "ripe" and I agree

[unkempt acorn]

So my next project is automating heavy modular frames. what parts per minute do you guys usually aim for?

[dense saffron]

could you help my problem, I got a water pipe manifold, 480 at the source, and 4 exits at 100 each, last 2 don't have enough fluid/min

[oblique hollow]

fill every pipe and machine inventory before you turn them on

also make sure you properly split and dont just try to force 480 / min into a single mk 1 pipe

[dense saffron]

(they are all mk2)

[dense saffron]

they use it more then that is able to flow

[dense saffron]

how do you make those graphics?

[unkempt acorn]

welp... wish me luck ;-;

[topaz hedge]

so this is really 45 a min, and the UI showing the wrong flowrate is just a bug then... tysm mcgallon

[upbeat tide]

Nope expect some slight fluctuation in pipes. Also valves are not 100% exact sadly

[oblique hollow]

i use draw.io with custom made graphics

[oblique hollow]

its accurate enough for the game

its a slight display error

[upbeat tide]

ty

dunno why SCIM says thumbs down on bauxite, but so far so good

still, a remarkably small build for 1/3 total aluminum possible with pure alu ingot

[oblique isle]

Is this intentional or just how the math works?

[upbeat tide]

Read what @oblique hollow said in response to me. Its a small math coding thing but nothing to really cause issue

[warm lagoon]

can anyone help me with a design that splits 300 into 10 stacks of 30

[sand garnet]

Manifold?

[warm lagoon]

dunno what that means

im a newbie

[oblique hollow]

You just chain splitters

[oblique hollow]

And wait for the machines to back up

[sand garnet]

Ignore the numbers

Just the setup

[warm lagoon]

oh

thats ugly tho

[sand garnet]

Not at all

[oblique hollow]

It works fine after the initial wait

[warm lagoon]

but it doesnt look effiecient

[oblique hollow]

Its the most efficient thing

[oblique hollow]

No overly complex splitting aaaaand its the most space efficient

[warm lagoon]

with the way manifolds work, can you always extend the chain?

[oblique hollow]

As long as you dont use the belt max, yes

[signal nimbus]

Off the top of my head... I'd start with a split to two lines of 150, then it's a 1:5 split. Each of those lines would go to a merger, then a splitter into two lines. One of those lines would split back into the merger, with the remaining outputs being, I believe, 5 lines of 30 after a bit of time.

[oblique hollow]

And of you do use too much, you just insert more down the line

[warm lagoon]

I think ill just get used to manifolds then

what are the do and donts of manifolds?

[signal nimbus]

Don't expect the system to warm up quickly.

[sand garnet]

Do make sure everything is connected properly

Dont overthink it

[signal nimbus]

Do make sure you use the right belts.

...so many slow-downs due to using too slow of belts..

[lone chasm]

Is anyone able to point me towards a simple Mk1 miner blueprint using splitters to optimize smelters? I've been looking for a while, and I'm having trouble using the calculators lol

[topaz hedge]

Let it rain metal @upbeat tide

[upbeat tide]

nice

[topaz hedge]

One could argue for simply only using the best belt one has available.

My bauxite use has a thumbs down too, no idea why

[signal nimbus]

I would not argue against it, assuming you produce that material at a sufficient rate.

[topaz hedge]

My fuel and water use is also a thumbs down too. So I don't get it.

[signal nimbus]

Well... I could argue against using top tier belts as the direct inputs, but not as the main manifold line.

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, for direct inputs/outputs it's a waste as most machines don't produce over a mk1 belt

[signal nimbus]

Mhm. Also faster to spin up, I think.

[unborn ermine]

Oh one thing people forget to mention, you can fill machines along a manifold before you start if you have some product ready for the buildings.
REALLY cuts down on start up time if you are making a new factory.

[upbeat tide]

Even more so with high stack items...looks at you aluminum scrap

[signal nimbus]

...even concrete these days, for an HMF factory.

[upbeat tide]

Tbh crete stacked to 500 is soo good tho.

[signal nimbus]

I did not say I was complaining.

I will happily take 500 stacks so I can build longer without interruption as a tradeoff for a longer spin up time on concrete factories.

[upbeat tide]

Kinda wish iron plates got a stack increase too.

I tend to go a bit nutty on walls

[fierce ruin]

how do i place a miner

[upbeat tide]

Wrong channel for those kind of questions, but you need to find resource nodes on the map. The tutorial should guide you through this.

[fierce ruin]

tf

[upbeat tide]

Just remember to hand mine the big rock in the middle of a resource node

[fierce ruin]

Wrong channel

wheres that

[upbeat tide]

#old-questions-and-help

[fierce ruin]

that is not on the help screen

[bleak coral]

They did, they were 100 stack in U3

I wonder if anyone wrote down what all's stacks changed and how

[upbeat tide]

Ah guess just over looked

[fathom hare]

How much coal does a coal generator use?

Isn't it 11 or 10?

[upbeat tide]

15 coal a min

[fathom hare]

Cool ry

Ty

[upbeat tide]

Right click your comment, edit.

Discord life saver tip of the day

[fathom hare]

I know lol

[granite flume]

anyone good with pipes and stuff?

[feral valve]

depends, what's the problem?

[topaz hedge]

1 pasta says it's a problem with their coal power.

[feral valve]

well, maybe, but need the person to actually talk about it to be sure. @granite flume ?

[topaz hedge]

Either way, we'll try to help best we can ^^

[granite flume]

i need to clean up my oil situation. need to figure out how to min max my fuel

[feral valve]

so which tech do you have access to? t1 pipes? t2?

[granite flume]

t2

i can show you if u wanna hop in a vc?

[feral valve]

i'm up for it

[granite flume]

okay sweet, ill invite you to a server right now

[gilded maple]

Is instant aluminum scrap the most efficient recipie?

[vast jungle]

it depends on what you want to optimize for...

(less) complexity? Power? Max resource output?

as an example, I "optimized" my first Aluminium setting to reduce the complexity of the Aluminia Solution as much as possible... because this is often something that leads to problems

[wind spade]

is there anything else to optimise for than raw resources? 😛

[vast jungle]

yes... 😉 (e.g. making sure you don't have to mix fresh and recycled water in Aluminium production)

[wind spade]

that's not optimisation, that's just how you connect pipes 😛

[vast jungle]

I am not sure there is a good way to do it without a lot of trickery or REALLY large setups... (as long as you want to reuse the water)
if you know an "easy" way to do it I am willing to listen

[wind spade]

well my initial question was about recipe optimisation

[vast jungle]

depending on the recipes, its easier or more difficult to do ^^

[wind spade]

and for reusing the water - now that we have fixed power consumption, it's easy to put that water into diluted fuel setup

or any pure recipe

[vast jungle]

would have been an interesting option if "Pure Alumimium" would have been a Refinery recipe with water

[wind spade]

players: please less refineries
hennig: let's add more refinery recipes

[vast jungle]

LOL

no

believe me, I was happy to see that I don't need a Refinery (and tons of water extractors) for this one ^^

still, while my solution for the Aluminium seems to "work", there were a few unexpected issues I had to fix... so I am still thinking if there is a better way to build an "easy" self-contained setup...

(without introducing plastic to sink the water)

[supple mural]

one way to do it is to have all the scrap refineries output their water to a subset of the alumina refineries, and have the rest of the alumina refineries be fed by extractors

so you dont need to worry about precise clocks on the extractors

so using all default recipes, youd end up feeding water from the scrap refineries into 1/3rd of your alumina solution refineries

[vast jungle]

@supple mural thats exactly what I did...

[supple mural]

nice

[vast jungle]

3 refineries to produce aluminia solution (with sloppy aluminia), 4 refineries to create scrap (with Electrode Aluminium Scrap)

[supple mural]

id also do something to prioritize the scrap produced by the refineries that get teh recycled water

[vast jungle]

I underclocked one SA refinery to 90% and overclocked another one to 110%... so the 90% one can run with fresh water...

[supple mural]

so it never clogs

[vast jungle]

I think the most reasonable solution is to have a balancer... either for the scrap or for the ingots... this way whichever Refinery can still work will supply everything until the rest can run again

[gilded maple]

I thought aluminum was going to be massive set ups until I realized almost nothing uses less than 100/min of resources

[vast jungle]

my "minimal" Aluminium setup takes 600 Bauxit and transform it into 600 Aluminium Ingots (and then into Sheets and Cases)
I plan to double it, but I want to get it running "well" first

so its a high number of items , but not a large amount of buildings

2 refineries to produce HOR, 2 refineries to produce Coke, 3 Refineries to produce Aluminia Solution, 4 Refineries to produce Aluminia Scrap and 20 Smelters to produce Aluminia Ingots
600 input, 600 output

[hoary wasp]

Hey guys somebody know how much turbofuel a Generator needs to run per min?

[glossy sapphire]

4.5 m3 per minute

[unborn ermine]

☝️ from the wiki, always a great place to spend an hour to read.

(I say an hour because you cant just read up on one thing and leave)

[glossy sapphire]

me that now has been in a rabbit hole, I started with turbofuel and now I am in Mycelia

dont ask me how

[unborn ermine]

I read everything in the discord when I am active, you dont have to tell 🙂

good ole deep reading and factory prep though.

The other day I had nothing going on, and I spent 4 hours of time prepping a factory from like 6 different angles.

🙂

[hoary wasp]

Wow thanks for the help guys 😊

[glacial hemlock]

I never see recycled water to be an issue. It has a simple solution to that

[vast jungle]

its often a problem when the output is blocked for some time... no "recycled" water is produced, but the "fresh" water still fills up buffers... sometimes to the point where there is not enough "space" left in the pipes for the next batch of recycled water

[glacial hemlock]

@vast jungle https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/satisfactory_gamepedia_en/images/f/fc/Uranium_Pellet_production.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20200515105628

Just an example. If the output manifold (the 4 mergers at the bottom) are flipped left and right, it is even better.

I guess you combined the fresh and recycled water and that's the cause of becoming stuck

[vast jungle]

I managed to keep fresh and recycled water separate to prevent any mixing issues for my 1st Aluminium setup...

[glacial hemlock]

That's great.

If you arrange the machine such that the output of 'recycle' machines has removal priority over the fresh machine, the system should never get stuck

[vast jungle]

I installed a balancer between the scrap production and the Ingot usage... so every possible way to produce stuff should be able to go in every possible "consumer"

I want to cleanup my setup a bit when I build the 2nd half of my Bauxit setup (I have 2 pure nodes available closby, but only use 600 Bauxit/Min. at the moment)

[oblique hollow]

if you simply keep the system at 100 % efficiency and make sure the numbers are right, it works too

the problem with feedback is it can never be allowed to stall

[vast jungle]

You mean with mixed feedback, right?

[oblique hollow]

yea

[vast jungle]

I am trying to do an easy design without mixing that can block and unblock

[pearl storm]

Is it possible to make a rotor, reinforced iron plate and smart plating factory at 100% efficiency ? Is it useful or not at all ?

[oblique hollow]

yes you can, everything can be 100% efficient

[vast jungle]

Everything is possible with 100% efficiency, you will "just"need large setups or under- or overclock

[pearl storm]

Is it useful for the late game or it's a waste of time ?

[oblique hollow]

definitely useful

its a waste of time if you DONT automate things

[pearl storm]

The problem is the lack of ore vein

[oblique hollow]

not really

just go explore more

iron ore is the most abundant one on the map

[vast jungle]

There are tons of resources on the map

[pearl storm]

I dont know how to make that factory at 100% effiency

[oblique hollow]

100% efficient is any setup, no matter what size

got a constructor making iron rods at 15/min at 100% efficiency? thats 100% efficient (duh)

its all about making sure the numbers match

if you have a machine that needs 15 rods / min, well then you need to actually make 15 rods / min

otherwise you wont be efficient

[pearl storm]

Is this website is good to help? https://satisfactory-calculator.com/fr/production-planner

[oblique hollow]

yea

[vast jungle]

that or https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[oblique hollow]

i hope you are able to underclock machines yet

[vast jungle]

both work well, its more a matter of prefernece

[pearl storm]

I am

Thanks ^^

[oblique hollow]

well then adjusting production ratios shouldnt be hard

[pearl storm]

I need to go

[oblique hollow]

you can even enter the number you want in the overclocking window

[pearl storm]

Goodbye :3

[oblique hollow]

alright, cya

[proven sphinx]

i need some math help, cause my head is hurting xD
i have 200 waste per min, i am going to use the "non-fissile Uranium" recipe thats 5.3333 blenders, does that mean that the output of non fissile uranium is going to be 50x5.333 ?

[vast jungle]

5.333 Blender would be (as an example) 5 Blenders at 100% and 1 Blender at 33%

or two at 200% and one at 133%

[proven sphinx]

my "problem" is what step im gonna do from here, cause the plutonium pellets also need the waste xD

[vast jungle]

yes... when you consider them together, the numbers become a lot nicer

[proven sphinx]

they do? xD

[vast jungle]

yes...

100 Waste...

put 75 Waste into 2 Blenders (Non-fissible Uranium) and they produce 100 of it...

put the 100 of it +25 other Waste into 1 Particle Accelerator (Plutonium Pellet) and you get 30 Plutonium Pellets

so its 100 Waste => 30 Plutonium Pellets... with the help of 2 Blenders and 1 Particle Accelerator

(just grabbed the numbers from a diagram of "satisfactory tools")

[proven sphinx]

so i would need 4 blenders, that would give me 200 of the non fissible uranium, then put those into 2x particle accelerators and so on .. .

but how do i "keep" 50 waste for the particle accelerators?

the splitters always splits equally to each output ?

[vast jungle]

just manifold both the Blenders and the Particle Accelerators... at first the accelerator will get "too much" Waste, but after a time it will be full and all the "non-used" Waste will go to the Blenders
As an alternative, you can build a balancer for it

splitters split equal, but only as much as the belt will take... blocking belts will get nothing, the non-blocked belts will get the rest

[proven sphinx]

i mean

if i split 1 mk1 belt, then split the half mk1 belt one more time, i will get 15 per min, that can be merged with a full mk1 belt and give 75 right ?

[vast jungle]

let me give you an easy example...

lets disregard belt-speed for a moment, lets use the "always fast enough" belts 😉

lets say you have 1 blender (which uses 75 waste) and 1 particle accelerator (which uses 25 waste)... and you just put a splitter between them.

at first both will get 50 waste... but after a while the particle accelerators input buffer will be full and the incoming belt from the splitter will block...

[proven sphinx]

yea i do understand that

[vast jungle]

which means suddenly the splitter can only output 25/min to the particle accelerator... which means at this point the Blender will get 75

okay...

what I mean is the easiest solution to build is just use a single splitter that connects the waste to the two blenders and the particle accelerator... and it will work as soon as the PA is full

a more "scalable" solution would be a line of splitters, one for each machine... you can make that line as long as you want, as long as you have enough total input... in the end all outputs of the line (to all machines) will be exactly right

if you don't want to do this, you can build a balancer that produce 25, 37.5 and 37.5 output from a single 100 source

[proven sphinx]

ah .. yea i get what you say now ..

2 blenders to 1 particle accelerator , just split the waste into 3 and it will fix itself over time right `?

[wind spade]

yeah

[vast jungle]

exactly

[proven sphinx]

aait, i'll do that

and 4 blenders and 2 particle accelerators will use all my (200/min) waste

[vast jungle]

the alternative is the balancer...

split the 100 waste in 2, then one of the 50 into another 2... you will have 50, 25 & 25...

merge the 50 and 25, then split those again... you will have 37.5, 37.5 & 25

but manifolds (splitter lines/trees that exploit blocking input belts of full machines) are normally easier to handle

[proven sphinx]

i'll just split my waste into 2, then put 2 blenders and a particle accelerator on each belt.. that sounded much easier, and now i can go eat 😂

[vast jungle]

You don't even need to consider them two groups

[proven sphinx]

i need to make it look good aswell xD

[vast jungle]

Just think of them as 6 machines and use a bunch of splitters to connect them

[proven sphinx]

i made this and wanted to double it , but the water is scuffed so i cant do it 😢

[vast jungle]

yeah... the good (bad) old "my pattern cannot extend" problem... I feel with you, I have this currently everywhere (I recently got MK5 belts ^^)

so suddenly I have more resources everywhere... and have to decide what I do about them

[proven sphinx]

it's more like "water isnt water" so some where in the water , i cant place stuff

[vast jungle]

there is shallow and deep water, yes

I once wanted to build a "pure iron" facility close to a lake... and all of the damned thing was "shallow" (non-minable)

[frosty owl]

Place water extractor in a normal position wherever possible, move it to the place you need with SCIM

[proven sphinx]

what? is that posible? O_O

[frosty owl]

... A tad too troublesome just for design purposes IMO though xD

[frosty owl]

They keep on pumping water, yes (could even have them in the sky if you wanted, this way)

[proven sphinx]

well im done with my 20 allready so im just gonna keep it .. but i wish i knew ...

[vast jungle]

its similar to the thing that happens if you move factory buildings in a savegame-file... the belts stay "connected", even if they are not anymore...

[proven sphinx]

and i wish they fixed it ! xD cause i was so hyped

[vast jungle]

and if you remove them, you could never re-attach them 😉

[vestal wharf]

Does anyone has a good way to automate modular frame without alternate recipes?

I couldn't do a plan because of weird item splitting in satisfactory calculator website

[vast jungle]

forget about "item splitting" and just think about ratios of machines...

this is a good first step to get what you need and totally independent from factory layout and beltworks

[vestal wharf]

I am caring about item splitting because I want it to be %100 efficent

[vast jungle]

doesn't matter at this stage... start with bare numbers... you can work forward or backward to get 100% anyways

so you typically can "choose" one value in your factory (one item/min count), and all other numbers will depend on it

if you say "I want 10 MF/min" and say "standard recipes", you have just set the numbers of ALL involved products...
(but you can also say "I want to turn 500 iron into MFs" and start from there)

but starting at the "finished product" is easiest, because every calculation goes into the same direction...

1. you look up how much machines (and fractions of machines) you need to produce the item...
2. you calculate how much input of which type they need
3. you start at 1) for each of the inputs...

done

[vestal wharf]

o.O

[vast jungle]

afterwards you will have a percentage how much of each machine you need

e.g. "I need 2.5 (or 250%) Assemblers to produce X, 25 (or 2500%) Constructors to produce Y, ..."

this step is completely independent from belting and splitting/merging... it just gives you the idea how much production capacity will you need.

Afterwards you can split this capacity into machines... (which might vary because you have over/underclocking)

and then you decide how to belt it.

[vestal wharf]

Aight, thanks

[vast jungle]

not focusing on everything at once is a big help... break the problem apart to make it easier

in the end, you can produce any number of final items with 100% efficiency (unless its too large so you lack input ^^)

[frosty owl]

@marble coral Having clear end-game objectives is quite important to structure your factory
It's ok if you wanna keep it "flexible" and ready to implement new additions too, but that doesn't seem the case for you, is it?

So before even planning anything you should probably jot down some numbers for how much end-game items you wanna make per min.
You'd probably want to go for all space elevator parts, nuclear and building materials (add to that stuff for sink value, if it's not included already). Anything else would be extra, so you need to center your production around the end-game goal

This also helps prioritizing certain resources or recipes over others according to your needs

[marble coral]

if it's my first time going for this, couldnt I just grab all the iron in the game, smelt it down, and be done. Repeat with copper and such?

[frosty owl]

For some ores and materials, that can work (eg: doesn't doesn't work with quartz really well ofc :P)
But then you encounter logistic issues, as most ores (if you use pure or alloy recipes) are more "compressed" than their ingot forms, so you'd be multiplying the number of belts needed if you smelt them far away from where the ingots are used

In that regard, I prefer the approach of "Smelt the whole node whenever I get one", so I combine the ingots locally with nodes closeby and have a factory going there

[marble coral]

jeez this is more coomplicated then I thought

[frosty owl]

In the end: move the most compressed forms of resources possible (transport steel beams instead of screws, copper and cat ingots instead of quickwire and so on)

[marble coral]

Im starting to think maybe I can't prove you wrong

[frosty owl]

I think you're getting too demoralized too soon xD
Just don't start too big, have objectives in sizes that your brain can handle (wether that's making one factory in one go or a single balanced array of machines)
Experience will then come in your aid as you progress :)

Going big is attractive, but even small/medium scale productions are quite challenging with end-game products

[muted crypt]

what complicated stuff are we discussing today

[marble coral]

it just seems like having these sprawling train lines would be fun and all

[frosty owl]

They are :3
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/817392303542894614/817392692220788756/Screenshot20210305-14355900000.png

[muted crypt]

That train spiral makes me happy.

[frosty owl]

Let us help Let Us make a big factory without losing his mind
I thing Let Us' biggest issue is with setting a clear end-game objective and taking the proper steps (and appropretly sized ones too) to achieve it ^^

[marble coral]

also it seems like I dont know where to start or even have a general idea for my prove you wrong factory layout

[muted crypt]

Let us.. can I call you LUGOPA, or

or lettuce maybe

[marble coral]

yes, thats intended

[muted crypt]

lugopa it is

[frosty owl]

||I totally wasn't just trying to say "let us" as many time as possible in a single sentence||

[marble coral]

lettuce help let us

[muted crypt]

at least you didn't say "among us"

"Someone among us needs help building an endgame factory"

I'm sad I've never actually build an endgame factory... I've just planned for one.

But not even for my current save.

[frosty owl]

What stops ya?

[muted crypt]

I'm taking my time, making things look good atm.

I've always tried to make "stepping stone" factories. idc how they look, I want them to function.. give me building parts.

Then I just.. stop, I guess? Other stuff gets in the way and I never get around to continuing onward

[frosty owl]

Well, I never "finished a game with a non-spaghet factory" yet... 😅

[muted crypt]

But I'm determined to make shit different this time.