make sure to change update 3 to update 4
#math-and-meta
tired raptor
ah, thanks
nuclear power plants still use the same amount of rods and produce the same amount of waste, right?
upbeat tide
Yes and no
tired raptor
more?
upbeat tide
Current max uranium rods in U4 is 31.5 a min
sullen cloud
per min, yes
tired raptor
great, max plutonium factory should not be that hard
still have to build the nuclear rod factory
fierce ruin
did you turn on alts?
tired raptor
wait no
tired raptor
yep, looks way more realistic
fierce ruin
half of 4 nodes
tired raptor
yeah i probably will use the non alts and then sink thee plut rods so i dont have waste. Hope they dont change that you can sink them
should not take too long to build
sullen cloud
I don’t think that removing that possibility would be logical. Because the trade-off between sinking and generating power is quite good balanced
tired raptor
yep. And I will probably not need more than the 400gw produced by the powerplants and i dont have to worry about waste.
upbeat tide
Wait til you start using particle accalerators
They suck up alot of juice
Hwar 2GW per unit in some recipies
sullen cloud
SF tools has all the information
fierce ruin
Thank Greeny
upbeat tide
Im working on alumnium goods prep work
Just need to sort more copper ingots and I have all the materials ready to start it
Had to go find more copper tho. Not close 😦
pliant zephyr
yep, looks way more realistic
thats literally so confusing
use SCIM instead its much easier to look at
fierce ruin
uck SCIM
upbeat tide
Im not a fan of SCIM’s mapping tool
pliant zephyr
how come
upbeat tide
First it tries to load balance
upbeat tide
Yes but I like the raw data
upbeat tide
Like these examples
Where are those fluid charts? Im having a problem involving heavy oil flow
I have 10 refineries making 400m3 HOR and feeding 14 diluted packaged refineries. Its actually two sets of 6.67 each, so the HOR requirement is 400.2 in reality.
But, the fluids is not really reaching the second set of 7 reliably. Flowrate just stops
Thinking of breaking it up even more, so 5 refineries feeds only 7 diluted refineries
sullen cloud
Yeah, a shame that the charts of our god-like @oblique hollow are not pinned here
I can only find them in German atm
However, 7 refineries/ 400 flow should be fine
Ie not affected by those max out problems
What’s your FPS in this area?
Are there any HOR refineries with less than 100% efficiency
frosty owl
Ie not affected by those max out problems
Quite. I suggest just helping the system through some buffering that will also allow you to have it fill up faster
One issue I noticed with fluid outputs is that they tend to "stagnate" a little in the building they get produced by, delaying the time when they reach destination. Thus the buffering to help
Not a bug, just a tendency to accumulate in the end of the manifold collecting fluid
upbeat tide
My issue is the back 5 refineries making HOR back up and dont produce because the HOR isnt reaching all the diluted refineries properly, which in turn causes a cascade failure. Fuel backs up, residual rubber fails, etc
sullen cloud
I have a diluted fuel setup feeding 780 plastic and 780 rubber production. I was able to eliminate all ‚output stuck‘ fluid problems by limiting all succeeding pipes to like 400-500 max fluid throughput
upbeat tide
Well, each HOR pipe is 400m3 by default
sullen cloud
Yeah, but your problem maybe lies in the succeeding production lines
and maybe double check if you have no remaining MK I pipe
upbeat tide
6.67x60 =400.2
So each pipe fuel pipe also has 400m3 in it.
Eeh should be no mk1’s but that will be funnnnnnn
frosty owl
My issue is the back 5 refineries making HOR back up and dont produce because th...
Do you have a screen of how you set the pipes up?
upbeat tide
its a 10 to 14 arrangement
the 14 diluted is broken into two segments, 6.67 each
fuel side
then loops into the recycled plastic and rubber facilities
amber berry
i have kind of the same problem ... I have a full mk2 pipe with oil and using 20 refineries with ne normal plastic recipe (using 30 oil/min). -> so 600/30 = 20 .... but my last two refineries just working sometimes cause the oil did not reach them really ... even if i use only 19 refineries the pipe dont even get full (with an overproduction of 30 Oil/min) ... i tried already pumps or valves but nothing really works ... is there a mistake in my setup? cause i dont know really what to do ...
upbeat tide
Break it in two
Try to avoid a full 600m3 pipe
My setup has only 400m3 pipes soo mine is different
Plus make sure nothing is getting backed up in HOR
sullen cloud
i have kind of the same problem ... I have a full mk2 pipe with oil and using 20...
There’s a known issue that belts/ pipes cannot be maxed out and can lead to a ‚loss‘ of 10-20 percent. Thus, a max of 500/700 should work
amber berry
oh okay 🙂 never heard about it. cause one of my other lines just working fine with a maxed out mk2 pipe (nothing backed up, full pipes) thats why i was wondering why my plastic setup dont, thanks 🙂
upbeat tide
It can be inconsistant is half the issue
oblique hollow
Yeah, a shame that the charts of our god-like <@597386533691064342> are not pinn...
They are. They are pinned in my reddit post
sullen cloud
Then I am lost on the pins in this mobile version (or blind)
oblique hollow
sullen cloud
Thanks, and I was blind re pins 😩
Are you planning to test certain things with u4? Like if the new decimals help with the ‚loss‘ phenomenon
oblique hollow
That reminds me: i need to finish the new icons. I plan on publishing my diagram icons for anyone to use
sullen cloud
Fair play
oblique hollow
Are you planning to test certain things with u4? Like if the new decimals help w...
I doubt it.
The decimals only allow to scale the production more easily
The only thing that would help is a fix attempt from CSS
sullen cloud
Doesn’t seem like the issue is high on their priority list
In a recent Stream they Said that the don’t have enough evidence
And your qa post unfortunately has a low upvote count
oblique hollow
Only 11
sullen cloud
Well, last time it was like 4
bleak coral
Link? I'll upvote it to keep it on the radar
worthy yoke
Fastes Way to get Space elevator Lvl 4: get all Material For lvl 1 and start it With 3 friends At the Same time
sullen cloud
What are friends 
worthy yoke
3 PC and add to the Server
sullen cloud
It has surprisingly many
As you only concentrate on maxed out pipes, do you happen to know a qa post addressing the issue with maxed out belts?
oblique hollow
I did some tests on mk 5
They have a loss rate of about 6 items /min
So 774 instead of 780
fast urchin
do lower belts also have some item loss?
oblique hollow
Negligible. Basically none
tall ridge
item loss?
oblique hollow
Mk 1 to 4 have like no issues
tall ridge
in my time playing ive never had items dissapear from belts
sullen cloud
I have tested with a merged 780 rubber production line. The output belt is connected to succeeding production lines and to a sink with overflow splitter. And the very distant refinery still stucks rubber in the output leading to 83% efficiency on average.
oblique hollow
item loss?
A discrepancy between the stated 780 and the true carry speed.
Basically, they are slower than they are supposed to, due to calculation losses. There is no item being lost, however
We just call it a "loss rate"
tall ridge
ah
fast urchin
well, even if it is negligible, wouldn't it still cause occasional power outages if you are tight on power and have no battery?
tall ridge
just expand the grid, simple
oblique hollow
well, even if it is negligible, wouldn't it still cause occasional power outages...
It is so negligible that it cant even be measured.
You might as well say they are 100% efficient
Only mk 5 have measurable losses
sullen cloud
What was your testing setup for this finding?
sullen cloud
He described all issues here https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/60352c10fedfd12dd739b885
frosty owl
the 14 diluted is broken into two segments, 6.67 each
I think you can fix the issue easily if you leave a buffer between the HOR output and input
frosty owl
oh okay 🙂 never heard about it. cause one of my other lines just working fine w...
The issue showes when you try to split many times a maxed out pipe, you can safely carry 300 or 600/min if you don't split along the way and make use of buffers to aid
upbeat tide
I think you can fix the issue easily if you leave a buffer between the HOR outpu...
that will be fun to cram in there. You seen how tight it is? 😄
frosty owl
Yeap.
But that is probably the reason why you have the issue in the first place ;)
(Pipes manifolds like having buffers to stabilize things, thus even just having long pipe segments can mean you won't incur in the issue with the same layout only with longer pipes)
oblique hollow
the best way is to not use single-end fed manifolds
frosty owl
Either that or buffers, whichever fits your space imo
Double-ended manifold is probably the most idiot-proof (hard to get wrong)
oblique hollow
gimme a moment here
upbeat tide
the best way is to not use single-end fed manifolds
ooh so 3:8 method it?
oblique hollow
not exactly
upbeat tide
as in merge the HOR pipe at the other end
oblique hollow
as in merge the HOR pipe at the other end
oh actually
fierce ruin
Keep flow rate down don’t max it out
upbeat tide
flow rate is 400
cant get higher
well, at least with only 10 HOR alt refineries per pipe
oblique hollow
this is in theory the most optimized. just never use the full 600 or 300 flow and it should be 100% safe
tiny sentinel
so i'm on the new update 4 and trying to set up coal power again. seems that the changes to coal generators mean we can't get away with 3:8 ratio of water extractors to coal generators. no matter how I try to lay out the pipes, the 7th and 8th coal generators won't stay active.
oblique hollow
it should work fine....
tiny sentinel
unless someone has a guaranteed layout for getting 45 water to all 8 generators
oblique hollow
i do have coal gens myself.... let me see how i set them up
tiny sentinel
I don't have my water extractors right next to the generators, so I've got a pipe maxed out at 300m^3 and just need to figure out the best way to distribute it.
oblique hollow
while you are at it, mindsending a pic of your setup?
tiny sentinel
uh, i'm at work at the moment.
not at my gaming rig
has the wiki been updated for the changes to experimental?
oblique hollow
then whenever you have time
oblique hollow
has the wiki been updated for the changes to experimental?
still being worked on, but many have been adjusted already
tiny sentinel
I feel like the 3:8 only ever worked because of the generators weren't always going full speed
fierce ruin
Ondar sweats
oblique hollow
I feel like the 3:8 only ever worked because of the generators weren't always go...
nono, 3:8 works because of the exact water ratio.
fierce ruin
It does work
tiny sentinel
then it must be a matter getting the pipes laid out in just the right way to evenly distribute the water
fierce ruin
To not max the pipe flowrate
oblique hollow
oh wait.... yeah
tiny sentinel
3 extractors seem to max out a MK1 pipe
oblique hollow
you might actually have to apply this exact setup to coal gens too
oblique hollow
3 extractors seem to max out a MK1 pipe
thats why you use 2 pipes
tiny sentinel
(I'm stuck with MK1 pipes for the time being
tiny sentinel
I'm not so familiar with manifold setups. what does "manifold" even mean?
oblique hollow
3 to 8 in a nutshell
oblique hollow
I'm not so familiar with manifold setups. what does "manifold" even mean?
a line of junctions / splitters
fierce ruin
It’s a line of them
tiny sentinel
3 to 8 in a nutshell
that's essentially what I've had in the past, but currently my water extractors aren't that close to the coal
tiny sentinel
i'm no noob. i know where stuff is and how to use that site. not incredibly helpful to what i'm working on right now.
I'm at the lake over the hill from the green fields starting area.
4 coal nodes near the lake and I'm using MK2 miners and MK3 belts
fierce ruin
Mk 2 should be fine
tiny sentinel
getting coal to the miners is no issue, just trying to figure out the best way to get the water to them when I don't have my generators built right on the water.
fierce ruin
3 to 8 in a nutshell
This
tiny sentinel
that works best when the extractors are right next to the generators.
neat rose
We have valves to limit throughput now. just push every pipe to its limit and throttle it at the end of each pipe
tiny sentinel
i'm trying to do it with the min number of pipes
fierce ruin
Or you can run 3 pipes and do the same thing
neat rose
less pipe more good, especially when you have too many coal gens around
oblique hollow
i'm trying to do it with the min number of pipes
you need at least 2, no way around it
neat rose
setup like this is very pleasing to look at. tedious when you are the one actually building it. it's inevitable at some point though #screenshots message
tiny sentinel
maybe this would work?
neat rose
you need at least 2, no way around it
he definitely have more than 8 coal gens. my guess would be more like 30~50
regal canopy
maybe this would work?
Yes that works
tiny sentinel
nice
tall stratus
I just realized that 2 normal quartz nodes + 4 aluminum refineries make exactly enough aluminum scrap + silica to cover for 8 foundries making aluminum ingots
This pleases my math
quiet sable
mine works fine
Look at you and your fancy pathways smh
oblique hollow
tiny sentinel
thats basically what i drew lol
not really. you had a pipe from each extractor going into the row of 8 generators at various points. my design has the water fro mthe 3 extractors go into 2 pipes, then each of the 2 pipes goes to a row of 4 generators.
both accomplish the same thing but the design I posted will work better for my situation since I don't have my extractors right next to my generators
quiet sable
not really. you had a pipe from each extractor going into the row of 8 generator...
Based on the implied values, they are identical
Geometrically
tiny sentinel
but my design only uses 2 pipes to get water to the generators, rather than 3 pipes. but yes, the water still gets distributed evenly.
quiet sable
but my design only uses 2 pipes to get water to the generators, rather than 3 pi...
Yes, but the geometry of the pipes is the same, so it doesn't really matter
oblique hollow
not really. you had a pipe from each extractor going into the row of 8 generator...
thats a topological equivalent operation
tiny sentinel
tomatoes, potatoes, right?
tiny sentinel
thats a topological equivalent operation
all I know and care about is my coal power will finally go brrr
digital halo
hi guys quick question - if I have 3 water extractors and would like to distribute it between 8 generators - can i lead all 3 into single pipe and then split that pipe between 8 gens? (I have pure coal node)
i got the answer -
oblique hollow
hi guys quick question - if I have 3 water extractors and would like to distribu...
no
well
it depends
digital halo
nm 🙂 - it seems you can as per above
digital halo
i have slight allevation from water extract to the platform, do I need to add pumps?
oblique hollow
i have slight allevation from water extract to the platform, do I need to add pu...
not really, but it wont hurt to add one
digital halo
ok ty
silk burrow
i got the answer -
is this mk1 pipe?
glacial hemlock
Yes.
The above setup is not even using half of the pipe capacity, it is quite safe
iron prairie
So, if I'm understanding U4-era nuclear correctly: in order of least to most waste and least to most power:
- Uranium reactors only, reprocessing to Pu fuel rods but sending them to the AWESOME sink.
- Default Pu-based recipes, trying to maximize uranium-based power and minimizing Pu-based power.
- Bringing in instant plutonium cells and plutonium fuel units, consuming more valuable secondary resources but improving the waste usage efficiency. More power for the same amount of uranium waste, but more plutonium waste produced.
- Using fertile uranium rather than non-fissile uranium. This cuts into uranium power a bit, but substantially improves overall uranium-to-plutonium efficiency.
iron prairie
Did a bit of math, based on a fixed 500 U waste/min.
Option 4 consumes 1583 U/min, producing 20 U fuel rods and 33.33 Pu fuel rods/min, for 458.33 GW of power. Overall, 289 MW/(U/min)
Option 3 consumes 1333.33 U/min, producing 20 U fuel rods and 11.11 Pu fuel rods/min, for 319.44 GW of power. Overall, 240 MW/(U/min).
So, option 4 (all alts, fertile uranium) is almost certainly the best for generating power, but maximizes creation of non-disposable plutonium waste. That said, with 1800 uranium/min on the map, you still cap out at 37.89 Pu fuel rods/min, or 189.5 Pu waste/min, or 126.67 minutes to fill up a single ISC.
bleak coral
That's still pretty good, but personally I lean towards option 2. Because it reduces waste so much. Still waste is pretty manageable even with option 4.
wind spade
So, if I'm understanding U4-era nuclear correctly: in order of least to most was...
the first option would probably be removed tho
bleak coral
Meh leave it in, you're spending power and resources to get rid of the waste. I think that's fine.
iron prairie
Quite possibly, but I do like how the alts present a sliding scale of ways to improve power output at the cost of greater waste.
wind spade
Meh leave it in, you're spending power and resources to get rid of the waste. I ...
I asked snutt about this and he said that it's most likely a bug and plutonium stuff shouldn't be sinkable
bleak coral
Unfortunate, it's something for the never-waste people
iron prairie
Personally, I'd a bit prefer a more "realistic" waste disposal method like temporary waste storage units, followed by encapsulation and drilling deep into bedrock, but at least the current setup lets you run for a long time on a small number of ISCs stuffed in a distant corner of the map.
bleak coral
I'm afraid that if there isn't something like that in the game eventually they'll just remove waste entirely to have people stop avoiding nuclear
wicked tinsel
I asked snutt about this and he said that it's most likely a bug and plutonium s...
imagine world if we actually had competent community managers
well, if plutonium is not sinkable you can always burn it in factory cart/cyberwagon shredder
wind spade
I'm afraid that if there isn't something like that in the game eventually they'l...
well with new buildings and stuff you most likely need to go nuclear to have enough power and decent production of stuff 🤷♂️
bleak coral
I mean it depends on how big the group actually avoiding nuclear because of waste is. If it's big enough and you need nuclear to progress they'll have to do something with waste if they don't want people to not finish the game.
I just know they're very vocal
oblique hollow
the new 4 decimals are amazing
fierce ruin
^
wind spade
devs seem to not follow the "we want X because we said so" group, but only the "would be nice to have X because Y" group
oblique hollow
seems reasonable
oblique hollow
now you can pretty much get every number you need
bleak coral
The first day where it was one though I was like "bruh" cause I couldn't even do 1/4 lol
oblique hollow
oh also, equations in the OC and part/min window are allowed, which is sick too
bleak coral
Felt like a troll
oblique hollow
so if i want the machine to be set to something specific, i just....
"233.57/(45*2)"
and the machine just sets itself to the solution
iron prairie
I haven't played U4. Does it save the actual formula, or just calculate the result and store it?
oblique hollow
I haven't played U4. Does it save the actual formula, or just calculate the resu...
calculate result and store as production target
bleak coral
That parenthesis is important there, I don't trust their order of operations 
iron prairie
I tend to throw parentheses around everywhere anyways because I CBA to remember order-of-operations.
bleak coral
The in-game calculator does it wrong sometimes anyway, I never figured out what it exactly it does wrong though
Either too strict PEMDAS or reads right to left instead of left to right
oblique hollow
setting a lot of parenthesis is good practice anyway
torpid robin
i just do it one calculation at a time so i dont mess it up from user error 😂
fierce ruin
@oblique hollow ((not)+(sure)+(what))*((you) +(mean))
oblique hollow
syntax error
digital halo
could someone please help me out with the distribution - I have pure coal node, I have 3 water extractors and 6 coal generators, for some reason single coal belt is not able to feed the 6 gens - but wiki says it should be able to feed 8 - where am I going wrong?
oblique hollow
could someone please help me out with the distribution - I have pure coal node, ...
how many water pipes are you using
iron prairie
Are you using a T2 belt out of the miner?
fierce ruin
how much coal/min?
oblique hollow
if its 8 it should be 120/min
bleak coral
Is it mk1 or mk2?
digital halo
mk1
oblique hollow
yea
iron prairie
Then it's only getting 60 coal/min.
oblique hollow
wont work with mk 1
digital halo
pure coal node
fierce ruin
yes your pipes
iron prairie
Yeah, but if you only have a T1 belt, you can only get 60 coal/minute out of the miner.
oblique hollow
doesnt matter, mk 1 belt limit is 60/min
digital halo
whats wrong with pipes?
oblique hollow
nothing
fierce ruin
make it more like this
oblique hollow
make it more like this
not needed
digital halo
right so i need mk2 belt?
oblique hollow
yep
bleak coral
Pipes are right, you could even add two more generators
oblique hollow
their current pipes are topologically equivalent @fierce ruin
bleak coral
Yes, because it wil 120 (pure) * 2 (mk2) = 240
iron prairie
The only invalid pipe setups:
W
\
W --> All 8 generators
/
W
W
\
W -> Generator -+-> 7 generators
/
W
W
\
W -> Generator -+-> 7 generators
/
W```that depends on the output rate. just check the number
bleak coral
The only invalid pipe setups:
```
W
\
W --> All 8 generators
/
W
W
\
W -> Ge...
This sounds like a challenge
iron prairie
Another way to think about it: so long as at least 60 water is consumed (2x generators) before the third extractor is merged in, you're golden.
bleak coral
Half of this game is checking input/output numbers and belt/pipe limits
iron prairie
... I suppose there's a fourth family of invalid setups:
N Generators <-+-> (8-N generators)
/
3 extractors```2 extractors -> 8 generators <---> 8 generators <- 2 extractors
^
|
1 extractor
That's just outright not enough water extractors.
bleak coral
for the "almost there but not quite" and "why do I have two fluctuating" confounding factors 😈
ah but it's almost! the correct amount, and it looks like it if you're tired enough and accidentally assign one to two sides
iron prairie
That said, there is one evil bit of the Grasslands which aggravates the problem. There's this one tiny little lake which might be the first one you find, so small that you have to build the powerplant on the adjacent land rather than just building a platform out on the water. The piping there can get Interesting (TM), such as what happened for my first ever coal plant.
bleak coral
there's also the pond that fits exactly 1 extractor on it
which is right next to some coal
rather than fix my mistake by moving the coal plant though (I did not run the numbers before I started building, only before I started the water) was this:
you should be able to see the pond I'm pumping the water like 100m below from in the back left
iron prairie
Ironically, first playthrough where I got to the point of coal/steel, I built my power plant near the tiny lake, using the nodes better suited for steel production, and my steel plant near that crater lake in the north of the grasslands, which is absolutely beautiful for making a powerplant.
bleak coral
It's not wrong if it works lol
iron prairie
The piping was extra-uggo, though, with a strange injected manifold design based on me figuring out that you can split five water extractors onto two T1 pipes.
These days, I just use the two-pipe loop/manifold designs.
I think I might've also had 10 coal generators per row.
bleak coral
Personally I prefer injection method or 2:1 underclock method
so I can just run the extractors alongside the coal generators out on the water
torpid robin
right someone correct me if im wrong 31.5 uranium fuel rods. powers 157.5 power plants pm
shadow cedar
How can I do 6 water extractors to 16 coal generators?
torpid robin
its 5pm of waster per fuel rod?
torpid robin
How can I do 6 water extractors to 16 coal generators?
break it down into 2 groups. 3 extractors for 8 gens
then there are multiple ways. generallyy i manifold the pipe. connect a pump in at each end. and one in the middle
shadow cedar
okay
torpid robin
if you want all 16 in a line . you can . you still manifold the pipe. just make sure you plug a new extractor in once there is space in the pipes
shadow cedar
okay i take the first option, thanks!
fierce ruin
shadow cedar
oh nice
frosty owl
I don't understand what this new emoji is supposed to mean
fierce ruin
it's a screenshot
torpid robin
so from 31.5 rods it makes 157.5 waste right?
fierce ruin
I used the blank space of discord to draw the 3/8 setup
frosty owl
so from 31.5 rods it makes 157.5 waste right?
Imagines people turning rods into waste rather then into screws
torpid robin
sigh
im just checking the amount of total power you can get. and what it takes. so i know how much to leave of certain stuff for it
and wanted to double check im looking at it right
empty tusk
how many nuclear fuel rod do i need per minute ? for 1 power plant
empty tusk
any specific ratio ?
bleak coral
nuclear plants use 0.2 rods per minute, and make 5 waste per minute
torpid robin
idunno i havnt built them yet in update 4. im just going trough it all myself atm
bleak coral
at 100%
torpid robin
so its 787.5 waste pm
bleak coral
yeah
torpid robin
ok thats the part i didnt think i was getting right
i was thinking it was the 787
but i was just getting my self brain fuddled
empty tusk
am making 0.4 fuel rod per minutes so i can feed 2 power plant
torpid robin
correct
bleak coral
but of course we don't know what's happening with the infused uranium cell recipe yet
empty tusk
waiting for the update to be release on early access
bleak coral
<@&370483737957236737> do you guys know if the alt "Infused Uranium Cell" will be updated for update 4, or just removed from the game?
fierce ruin
uranium pellets were removed that's all I know
bleak coral
half the burn time
frosty owl
Say what?
Didn't it have less MJ?
torpid robin
oh my brain hurts this morning. i need to go back to bed 😂
stayed up too late last night up to early. this dam game
frosty owl
Damn you, I fell for that
torpid robin
so did i for the 30 secs i looked at it then my heart broke
bleak coral
I am surprised that it has less energy, but I guess the primary purpose is to reduce waste and the energy is bonus
frosty owl
Meh. I'm a bit skeptical about that... I still have to try them though
torpid robin
so from all waste turned into plutonium you get 328125 mw from that
393750 from uranium rods
bleak coral
Meh. I'm a bit skeptical about that... I still have to try them though
vanilla recipes reduce the rate of waste to 5% of what it was before
torpid robin
721875 total
so some still decent power numbers. but less waste. but more complicated
frosty owl
vanilla recipes reduce the rate of waste to 5% of what it was before
Waste was not really an issue to begin with...
It just seems like a lot of work just to have less containers with waste xD
torpid robin
oh man and is it bauxite heavy wowzers
pretty coal heavy too.
but sulfur cost isnt bad tbh
frosty owl
oh man and is it bauxite heavy wowzers
Gotta cut down on them turbomotors :P
bleak coral
I mean there's way more aluminum available now, enough to do over 800 turbomotors a minute
it's a different world now
torpid robin
oh wait hold up. thos numbers arent right cost you need 300 uranium for the plutnium rods. so that means less uranium rods. then less waste then less plutonium
torpid robin
I mean there's way more aluminum available now, enough to do over 800 turbomotor...
until you throw the spelevator poarts in the calc. and then you will see you will only be making like 60 turbo motors max if you want the higher tier stuff
bleak coral
there's obviously a balance to be reach using that recipe, I do believe it's still better
torpid robin
oh i afgree far better to turn waste
bleak coral
@iron prairie you ran the numbers for the variations on plutonium stuff right?
torpid robin
just gotta play with the numbers a bit more
torpid robin
so. you can make 26.55 uranium fuel rods. using 1766.67 uranium, which makes 662.5 waste. you can then use that and 331.25 uranium to make 44.71 uranium fuel rods.
that gives you a total power output of 611312.5mw of power
and 223.55 waste pm
torpid robin
well that was easy 😂
upbeat tide
Been playing with the new aluminum setups.
Sloppy alumnia solution + electrode scrap is a really clean setup
Its a 1:2 ratio
1 solution to every 2 electrode scrap. And 1: for electrode scrap and petro coke too
deft lichen
does sloppy alumina make more aluminum from bauxite?
upbeat tide
It is most efficient for bauxite use yes
deft lichen
the cost is that you need to make more silica because the alt gives none
upbeat tide
But no silica so your locked into pure alu alt
deft lichen
just make it with cheap silica
fierce ruin
Who wouldn't
deft lichen
casings are needed more?
fierce ruin
if you use the cooling system alt with comps
upbeat tide
Whats nice tho is the casing alt is very close to alclad so not horrid to change up the ratio
torpid robin
turbo rigor motor IMO is better
those pressure cubes arent cheap
so rigor you can make 812 turbo motors max
iron prairie
<@!331215761806983181> you ran the numbers for the variations on plutonium stuff...
Not yet.
torpid robin
so rigor you can make 812 turbo motors max
but pressure can only make 144
you get limited on nitrgogen. which you need for late game spelevator
pressure is also faaaaar more cost heavy on bauxite. which isnt good as that is also needed alot late game
so tbh pressure motor is pretty bad
more expensive on oil. quartz and cat cost are close enough
gloomy yew
does anyone have a good idea for large factorio like busses, that can carry all resources?
I wanna have one or two things being assembled on each floor by easily grapping materials from the bus.
Can't really find anything useful on youtube
iron prairie
The good idea is not to use a Factorio-style bus system.
fierce ruin
our busses aren't like factorio
gloomy yew
i have too many hours in factorio so it's hard to get away from lol
torpid robin
go 1 blet. 1 item
gloomy yew
whats the meta then
torpid robin
1 belt per item is lol
iron prairie
With much more consistent rates and much more limiting belt speeds, it's better to have 1 item type per belt, sent from where it's made to where it's needed.
torpid robin
manilfold them
gloomy yew
so it won't be a good idea to make each resource at one place and then distribute them to other places?
torpid robin
you can do that. thats how i do mine
but if i have 5 diffenrent lines that needs iron plates. il send a belt with only iron plates on it to each line that needs it next
iron prairie
There are various styles: some like to move raw resources to a central megafactory, some like to do distributed subfactories shipping materials between them, some like a middle ground of "do some processing on-site, but do the most complicated stuff at a central location".
gloomy yew
alright makes sense
torpid robin
kinda comes down to your preferance
gloomy yew
but how do you distribute items easy between floors and still keep it organised
iron prairie
Either way, with belts costing no power, three dimensions to organize your stuff, trains being relatively cheap for long distances, etc, it tends to be more about preference, efficient resource utilization, ensuring sufficient power, and managing tradeoffs between complexity, resource inputs, floor space, etc.
iron prairie
but how do you distribute items easy between floors and still keep it organised
Color-coded conveyor lifts in a corner of the tower, a small subfloor underneath each main factory floor, and planning.
It's not spaghetti if you hide it behind a foundation/wall.
gloomy yew
loving the subfloor idea
sullen cloud
@gloomy yew there’s a small streamer named Cazanator currently live on Twitch. Ask him, he has several good concepts for SF as a Factorio veteran
gloomy yew
alright thanks
torpid robin
and a big thing i find is having correct factories close to certain ones
cedar mica
Is the drones 5 batterys per trip or 5 batterys + distance?
torpid robin
like cat wire is needed in huge numbers. so why not put anything that needs cat wire beside that. things in small quantities can go enywhere one one belt easily. try moving 10 belts across your base is a pain
sullen cloud
Mine said 5 per round trip, actually it took 10 batteries
cedar mica
So 5 batterys per way?
cedar mica
That changes the math a lot, for how many drone stations you can have. Even 2000/m batterys are pushing it, when you want nuclear
iron prairie
I'm pretty sure you're not meant to spam drones, but rather use them for small-volume high-value cargos like supercomputers, plutonium waste, etc.
cedar mica
2000 batterys are 400 drone platforms, if its 5/m usage. Which means trains go to big volum only
With that amount of drones, you can move all end products to drones, in theory
iron prairie
That uses up a rather distressing fraction of the map's sulfur, crude and bauxite.
sullen cloud
The streamer (Cazineer, actually) I mentioned above has started testing drones to a large extent for all items in the game
torpid robin
sure use all your bauxite and have no casings for anything to use all those drones on
crude and sulfur isnt actually as bad now
crude is in a really good position
cedar mica
That uses up a rather distressing fraction of the map's sulfur, crude and bauxit...
Can easily do 2500/m batterys 30/m uranium fuel rods and 20/m plutonium fuel rods (500GW) 60/m alcad aluminum sheet 10/m turbo motor 10/m radio control unit 10/m cooling system 10/m assembly director system 10/m propulsion rocket 10/m nuclear pasta Still resources left over and have most of the things you want
sullen cloud
I asked him. He says it takes 5 batteries per round trip if only one port is fed. If both ports are fed with batteries it takes 5 per port (!)
fierce ruin
oof
torpid robin
Can easily do ```
2500/m batterys
30/m uranium fuel rods and 20/m plutonium fue...
really depends on how big you wanna go
cause youa still need bauxite to refine the waste as well
3710 pm to be exact
cedar mica
That is including all you need to refine waste
Unless SatisfactoyTools is skipping somethings
torpid robin
there is more plutonium rods than 20 isnt ther
how much waste you getting from the nuclear?
cedar mica
30 uranium, is 750 waste, which is enough for 20 plutionium rods and 10 nuclear pasta
iron prairie
Are you sure? Satisfactory Tools doesn't give me any sort of nuclear waste requirement for nuclear pasta.
torpid robin
you can get 44.17 plutonium rods
cedar mica
Are you sure? Satisfactory Tools doesn't give me any sort of nuclear waste requi...
I just assume it wants plutonium parts, havent checked that deep
torpid robin
to us eall uranium in the map you get 26.55 uranium rods then 44.17 plutonium
for 611312 mw
cedar mica
30 uranium and 25 plutonium, uses 2093.75 uranium, based on current recipes
torpid robin
did you choose the recipies yourself?
cause i maximised and put in the amoutn of waste you get
cedar mica
You cant maximize, as Plutonium wants uranium as well
torpid robin
and it uses 2097.92 uranium
iron prairie
With all defaults, uranium waste is 100:1 with plutonium fuel rods. The next step (instant plutonium cells, plutonium fuel rods) is 45:1 waste:rods.
iron prairie
Working now to figure out the math for use of fertile uranium, which is the last step. You want to use uranium waste "inefficiently", so as to maximize the power vs. plutonium waste produced.
torpid robin
uranium and plutnoium rods using all waste
and uranium
comes with like 223 plutonium waste
iron prairie
Problem with those two Yeti: between them, you're using more uranium than the map has.
iron prairie
Huh: so they did add an impure node, bringing it to 2100 uranium/min.
torpid robin
yes
the uranium should of been adjusted i forgot to after cxhecking it all out. i ended with it using 1766.67 for the uranium rods. then 331.25 for the plutonium
for 26.55 uranium and 44.71 plut
cedar mica
26.55 uranium fuel rods, 663.75 nuclear waste, 44.08 plutonium fuel rods, 2100 uranium used.
torpid robin
the calc is doing funny things for me now lol
i keep getting 2096.63. but it aint changing when i put different things lol
its close enough . pretty much you can still get a bit of power.
oh ffs whyh did i refreash it munted my layout i had ,sigh
wind spade
Unless SatisfactoyTools is skipping somethings
I hope not
torpid robin
it isnt
cedar mica
I hope not
It sort of is, since you need to put in nuclear waste manually, when making plutonium.
wind spade
well yeah, but it isn't skipping anything 😄
cedar mica
With power going at 100%, it should be possible to calculate it now
iron prairie
So, some of the key ratios:
Uranium can be either 50:1 or 100:3 uranium per fuel rod: the 100:3 being the most important one.
Uranium fuel rods are always 25:1 waste:rods.
The default is 20:3 uranium waste:plutonium cells.
Instant plutonium cells brings that up to 9:2 waste:cells.
Default is 15:1 cells:plutonium rods, with nuclear fuel units being 10:1.
Fertile uranium is effectively 19 uranium to 12 non-fissile uranium, with 3/12 coming as raw uranium and 16/12 coming as uranium waste. This does imply 16/19 of your uranium goes to uranium fuel rods.
If using fertile uranium, you wind up with 1:2 waste:non-fissile uranium, and 3:2 waste to the plutonium cell (it is not advisable to use fertile uranium w/ the regular plutonium cells due to increased plutonium waste).```That means that defaults are 100 uranium waste per plutonium fuel rod, and thus you max out at 20:1 waste compression via plutonium processing, albeit producing relatively little plutonium-based power, with a 1:8 ratio of plutonium to uranium power.
Without fertile uranium, but with the other alts, you can bring that to 45 uranium waste per plutonium fuel rod, 9:1 waste compression and 5:18 plutonium/uranium power production.
With all alts, that's 15 waste per plutonium fuel rod, 57:16 waste compression, and 95:96 plutonium/uranium power production.
torpid robin
funny how people go on about not wanting waste. but i think its an wesoem tarde off. you dont get much waste with it. and you almost double your power from it
iron prairie
Granted, one big missing factor in this analysis is that the waste compression is actually a bit better than that, because using plutonium rods means you don't need to burn as many uranium rods.
cedar mica
If you are willing to pay the price, you can sink Plutonium Fuel Rods atm
iron prairie
My understanding is that'll get patched out.
torpid robin
and i think thats fiar. how they have it is pretty balanced IMO
cedar mica
I dont really see the problem with long term storage. Map is huge, so radiating a corner, is not that big of a deal. And its not going to effect the item limit that much. Power poles do more
torpid robin
whast the stack size of plutonium waste?
iron prairie
Part of it is that it can bug you to know there's that one corner of the map you'd need to return to every so often to build more storage.
500 waste/stack, same as uranium waste.
torpid robin
Part of it is that it can bug you to know there's that one corner of the map you...
automated idodine filters 🤷♂️
iron prairie
You can't automate building more ISCs, though.
cedar mica
Maybe once a month, if you spend a few hours building storage...
torpid robin
i mean it takes 5 mins to go slap on another 20 ISC and belt em up
cedar mica
And if you spend a few hours, you are good for the next few hundred...
torpid robin
yea pretty much
cedar mica
Speaking of item limit, are ISC counted as 1 object, regardless of how full it is?
iron prairie
Did more math. At maximum plutonium production, for every 19 uranium mined, you get 2 plutonium waste. That implies 221 waste/min, 108 minutes to fill up an ISC.
cedar mica
Yes, but do items you put into it, change the amount of objects it has? Thats the only issue I can see with long term storage
torpid robin
i have heard that it does. but i cant confrim tbh
cedar mica
Even if it does, most people hit FPS limit, before item limit
torpid robin
they are makiing optimisations as they go anyway
cedar mica
Anyway, long term storage is not really an issue. If it was, CSS would need to find a solution, to make nuclear relevant again
torpid robin
well they have made it relevant
with those accelerators
they like to gobble power
iron prairie
At the opposite end of the spectrum, using only the encased uranium cell alt, it's 160:3 uranium per plutonium waste, so if you used all the map's uranium, that'd be 39.375 plutonium waste/min, filling up an ISC in 609.5 minutes (10 hours).
Do note that it's not actually useful for that analysis to use the default uranium cell alt. That does alter the uranium:plutonium waste ratio, but you're also cutting your power production by the same factor.
bleak coral
I really doubt the number of uobjects change with more or even different items in storage
iron prairie
What I will say is it's not necessarily rational dislike of the waste that bugs people. It's irrational dislike of having waste piling up in a corner.
bleak coral
Cause you could just stick that in an array
cedar mica
The only issue with the sink and the trash bin, is that you need more lore to explain away the "FICSIT dont waste" part. I would be fine with removing trash bin and sending any excess up the elevator...
iron prairie
Simple.
"FICSIT does not let honesty get in the way of a good slogan."
And: "FICSIT does not waste a good slogan".
torpid robin
The only issue with the sink and the trash bin, is that you need more lore to ex...
tbh i feel the trash bin was put in cause people really wanted it lol
bleak coral
It would suck to play with no trash bin
cedar mica
Trash bin, is connected to FICSIT RnD department, so they remove anything you dont want. Which is why nuclear waste is not wanted... It also explain why they can remotely upgrade your inventory
bleak coral
Meh I'm a gameplay first, story/lore second kind of person
Not everything needs a lore reason
oblique hollow
"We do not waste" is an impossible statement to apply to something that is literally named "waste"
ergo they dont have to apply it to the waste
wasteless waste is a myth
vale lily
Has anyone looked at the new Blender recipe for the Alt: Diluted Fuel? I'm getting that 600/m Crude Oil can yield 44,444 MW power. It seems high, and the online calculator requires more Crude Oil, but I've checked my math and it looks right.
iron prairie
And, realistically, you always waste. Waste materials, waste time, waste energy, nothings 100% efficiency.
fierce ruin
it's the same ratio as package diluted fuel so it should work out
iron prairie
Has anyone looked at the new Blender recipe for the Alt: Diluted Fuel? I'm gett...
So far as I can tell, that should be 20 GW, not 44.44 GW.
HOR -> diluted fuel is 3:8 crude:fuel, so you have 1600 fuel/min. Each fuel is worth 750 MJ, so:
1600 fuel/min * 750 MJ/fuel * 1/60 min/sec = 20,000 MJ/sec * 0.001 GJ/MJ, and 1 GW is just 1 GJ/sec.
cedar mica
Was it not 22GW for 600 oil?
iron prairie
Unless you're doing turbofuel, in which case you need to specify turbofuel or turbo blended fuel.
I have an analysis of those recipes here: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/m6gi6d/new_turbofuel_recipe/gr6scqd/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
And, IIRC, you get 22.22 GW of turbofuel per 300 crude with the old recipe, so 44.44 GW per 600 crude seems right to me.
cedar mica
Hard to keep track of all this numbers, after not using them for a while. Just remembered 22GW per pipe, but that was pre mk2 pipe
vale lily
HOR = 30/m Oil = 40/m HOR, so 600/m Oil = 800/m HOR. Alt Diluted Fuel is 50/m HOR = 100/M Fuel, so 800/m HOR = 1,600/m Fuel. Then use the Turbo Fuel recipe at the recipe in the refinery is 22/m fuel = 18.75/m Tubro Fuel, so 1,600 Fuel/m = 1,333.333/m Turbofuel. The Fuel Generator burn Turbofuel as a rate of 4.5/m, so 1,333.333/4.5 = 296.296 Fuel Generators. 150M per Generator = 44,444.444 MW
cedar mica
I wonder why its called Nuclear Pasta, when it dont have any radiactive parts in it?
Mini star, seems like a better name
frosty owl
'cause it's made of atomic thingies
cedar mica
Oh, its borrowed from real world name: "In astrophysics and nuclear physics, nuclear pasta is a theoretical type of degenerate matter that is postulated to exist within the crusts of neutron stars"
iron prairie
Apparently neutrons in neutron stars start forming rods, tubes, thin sheets, and other stuff which reminded researchers of spaghetti, cannelloni and lasagna, and the name stuck.
bleak coral
Neutron stars make matter all weird
fierce ruin
Don't tell em jokes they're pretty dense
upbeat tide
I broke down my aluminum ingot setup into modules like the above
Besides smelters, very clean ratios
signal nimbus
Little behind the curve on the update, but I saw this in the patch notes:
"All conveyor fed Generators now always produce at full capacity instead of regulating their power output to factory consumption."
Does this mean that regardless of power use, say a Coal Generator will always use 15 Coal/minute?
upbeat tide
Yes
signal nimbus
Cool, thanks.
wild forge
Little behind the curve on the update, but I saw this in the patch notes:
"All ...
Yes. And I've run into some issues if coal generators don't have coal and water to spare stored up when you start them up. If they shut down for even one second, and the water extractors and coal miners are connected to the same grid, it's a pain in the butt to get it started again.
signal nimbus
Any issues getting them started the first time?
wild forge
Put them on standby while the reservoirs fill up for a little bit.
Even if you have enough biomass generators to keep things running, you don't want your coal gens to waste even a fraction of a second waiting for inputs.
upbeat tide
You should always build for 100% power. Over building isnt good
signal nimbus
Gotcha. The save I'm working on to prep for Update 4 when it's stable has stable coal power... but not for every production line, so I'm in the middle of building a quick upgrade as well as planning my starter oil setup. I know I need to dump the byproducts, so if generators are using 100% i can make residual fuel and burn it.
oblique hollow
found a pretty good use for the drone and packaged alumina solution:
Drone brings empty canisters to the red bamboo forest.
there, im producing aluminum and packaged alumina solution.
drone brings it back, and the stuff turns into batteries over here
ancient shuttle
Just to double check, the game determines the alternate recipes chosen whenever you start scanning the hard drive right?
upbeat tide
Yes once the button is pushed the selection is finalized.
Anyway, to alumnium scrap making in U4. Decided to conpare a bunch of different methods using the same output goal of 1920 scrap a min.
Vanilla - https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=HsXGbEQ0w1dxI25LJ72T
Electrode Scrap - https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=BUCRbOZJJdNKsvH3YgS1
Sloppy Alumnia - https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=h3td5DZpxEHWkdwmCg8L
Sloppy + electrode - https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=h3td5DZpxEHWkdwmCg8L
Instant scrap - https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=h3td5DZpxEHWkdwmCg8L
Pretty much only two options are viable and dependent on if you want to use alot of silica in making aluminum, or use the pure alt.
Those are sloppy + electrode or just electrode.
glacial hemlock
Now we already have light, just a few more additions and we can create movies
fierce ruin
lethal shell
Is there any way that Casted screws are not better in every way to the standard recipe?
torpid robin
guess he is getting over the questions lol
torpid robin
Is there any way that Casted screws are not better in every way to the standard ...
casted screws is better
lethal shell
Am too lazy to work it out myself at 1 in the morning lol
torpid robin
steel screws is better again
fierce ruin
^
lethal shell
Is there any aspect of the regular recipe that might be better? More power efficient? Faster?
torpid robin
Is there any aspect of the regular recipe that might be better? More power effic...
nope
casted more resource effecient and 25% faster
torpid robin
correct
fierce ruin
unless you like pain
torpid robin
i like pain
i feel this is my safe space. so many questions in the otehr chats. this is liek the only one you can have a proper conversation in about the game atm lol
fierce ruin
lol
bleak coral
technically the most resource efficient becomes the default again once you get steel rods, and you do steel rods -> regular
but it's slooooow
fierce ruin
why use coal for iron?
bleak coral
it reduces it by a bunch, and there's a ton of coal
and before U4 there wasn't much use for it
now? I don't know
torpid robin
so
on all that lol
coal doesnt look good.
the way i check things on the calc is enter evcerything i want and see what i styartg to run out of. to re work the recepies
bleak coral
I mean you suggested steel screws, which uses coal too lol
torpid robin
and coal runs out at the same time as copper
bleak coral
and more of it
torpid robin
I mean you suggested steel screws, which uses coal too lol
id like to use steel screws for the amount of buildinmgs needed. but im actually going to use casted screws
i think il go so far maybe at very end game to almost start making steel from oil
cause its crazy how efficient it is
fierce ruin
ouch
torpid robin
5.5k oil can do roughly the same amount of steel as 25 k coal
bleak coral
what are you making with screws anyway?
bleak coral
oh, I do regular or steeled for that
torpid robin
28k screws for bolted frame lol
torpid robin
oh, I do regular or steeled for that
i would do steeled. but its uses more coal
frigid cloak
5.5k oil can do roughly the same amount of steel as 25 k coal
which alt are you using for that?
torpid robin
i was trying to save on coal usage
bleak coral
do you really save machines vs vanilla if you have to make screws though?
torpid robin
which alt are you using for that?
coke steel ingot
6266 oil can make 33420 steel ingots
with more oil. now. and the fact that you dont need as much oil for things now. it actually makes some oil alts more viable
lethal shell
Anyone know how many foundation platforms x foundation platforms it takes to hold the space elevator off the top of their head?
If you do, you are a true legend and nerd for this game
lethal shell
Thank youu
torpid robin
about 6.75 by 6.75 foundations
nice ty im about to set up one for myself too lol
save mnne having to look
latent fern
nice ty im about to set up one for myself too lol
No problem have it written down just had to lookup how big the foundations are :)
glacial hemlock
@lethal shell wiki has most of the building's dimensions. In fact, All.
torpid robin
#check the wiki
fierce ruin
who'd make that trend
lethal shell
And miss out on socializing with you awesome people?
glacial hemlock
XD
fierce ruin
no clue
glacial hemlock
that's one of the downside.
minor solar
Anyone got any flowcharts for steal beams / pipe factory? (Please @ me if you reply, thanks :P)
fierce ruin
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/ use this
bleak coral
Even some of the new buildings dimensions are up. Fun fact while I was measuring the size of the well stuff I found out the extractor has no building hitbox. So you can put anything through/on-top-of it.
frigid cloak
The wells are supposed to be infinite
bleak coral
oh no I didn't try to place more than one on a sattelite node, interesting idea
frigid cloak
I think it might
bleak coral
might mark the node as "occupied" though
frigid cloak
I did see a screenshot of someone doing that actually
fierce ruin
"test til our eyes bleed" - a very certain josh
minor solar
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/ use this
thanks
fierce ruin
rotate?
bleak coral
I'd go test it if I weren't in another game, might try it later though and file a bug report
fierce ruin
you're already in the game of life
frigid cloak
You could rotate, but it does greatly limit the number possible
latent fern
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/ use this
so i have a legitimate question for you When using the calculator to make items just to store then because you need them say for like Conveyor belts so you dont need an exactly item/min is there a way to say what item you want and how much resources you have to spend on that construction and it give you the best setup?
fierce ruin
go input edit the amounts-->change u/min to maximize-->select recipes if applicable
latent fern
go input edit the amounts-->change u/min to maximize-->select recipes if applica...
Holy shit, seriously thank you lol. makes things so much easier
fierce ruin
rate desired depends on how much time you have between making it using it
latent fern
the decimal value is just the last machine is underclocked right?
torpid robin
correct
fierce ruin
^
latent fern
Thank you.
icy chasm
This is the math channel right?
fierce ruin
yes
torpid robin
dont bring your noob stuff here
this is our safe haven
this is the only room we dont get bombarded with noob questions and #check the wiki responses
icy chasm
Oh sorry 😦
quick gorge
So crazy people, what's the maximum amount of plutonium waste you can produce?
Wiki says for Uranium
"The current maximum production rate of Nuclear Waste is 2362.5/min."
'current' meaning pre u4... there's another uran node now so that number has changed.
I wanna see how fast you can destroy the planet
torpid robin
223pm
quick gorge
Using all the alts that help with that?
wind spade
So crazy people, what's the maximum amount of plutonium waste you can produce?
W...
if you define "destroy the planet", I can tell you how fast. FYI in U3 "destroying the planet" as in "covering the entire world with radiation" was ~20000 years
fierce ruin
green, uses blue pfp and blue name tag
wind spade
they won't give me green 🤷♂️
quick gorge
It's called an identity crisis, leave him alone
torpid robin
he looks so happy in his PFP though
quick gorge
I wanna see if that ~20000 years with plut waste
wind spade
don't know how much more radioactive plutonium waste is, but I'd bet it would be even longer
you'll definitely hit PC limitations before radiation covers your world
torpid robin
well it builds a hell of alot slower
wind spade
relevant math for U3 #math-and-meta message
quick gorge
hmmm destroying the planet could just mean your PC won't run the game anymore..
🙂
wind spade
you can do that by deleting FactoryGame folder
quick gorge
Taken from the wiki
"This means that storage will last between 20x and 3x as long compared to if the Uranium Waste were unprocessed. The storage area will, however, be more radioactive as Plutonium Waste is more radioactive than Uranium Waste. "
wind spade
yeah that tells us nothing really 😄
quick gorge
More radioactive means it would be faster then just uran
Any progress and good progress....
wind spade
but it builds up slower
until devs put plutonium waste in Docs, I can't give you any exact measurements 😛
quick gorge
Would you rather get poked 100 times or stabbed once?
wind spade
it doesn't work like that
quick gorge
idk, I just want to see the world burn, don't really care how it's done
wind spade
I think I was doing those calculations as well, but can't find them anymore. Basically the idea was to put optimal number of waste to optimally spaced storage containers in a 3D grid
quick gorge
Well we just have to wait for the game to be more stable™️
fierce ruin
soon™️
fierce ruin
bleak coral
we don't even know if plutonium waste is as radioactive as U3 nuclear waste, I've heard some stuff about radioactivity being nerfed in general
all we know is plutonium waste is described as "highly radioactive" in it's description, no numbers yet
quick gorge
Time will tell
upbeat tide
I am in the process of tapping and adding to my train network the remaining two uranium nodes I dont have. Because I will need all 2100 uranium to get my nuclear plant up to speed again
quick gorge
Uranium is just spicy glow rocks.
Speaking of Spicy glow rocks...
I'mma go play Factorio and try get to nukes so I can REMOVE the natives
upbeat tide
Uranium is just spicy glow rocks.
Speaking of Spicy glow rocks...
I'mma go play ...
You mean Remove the Natives before they remove you 😄
quick gorge
That's why I have turrets everywhere, anyway!
Enjoy your numbers and stuff
upbeat tide
I am enjoying my Internet Spaceships currently
Taking a slight break from number crunching
wind spade
To answer the goal how much waste is needed to fill the whole world with radiation (assuming U3 values, as I don't have access to U4 plutonium waste values yet):
Let's assume we put containers on a 3D grid. (Hexes would probably work more efficient, but are also hell to calculate, so let's go with normal grid). We also put the same amount of waste into each container.
Some calculations are needed (done by hand bcs I can't be bothered to write math equations in discord):
The final equation can be plotted onto a graph and using a minimisation function, we can find the result:
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=min+w+%3D+14447942592*pi%2F(y*e^(-0.0125*sqrt(3*y^2)))
As we can see, the optimal way to irradiate the whole world is by placing containers every 46.188 meters (every 5.77 foundations). Total amount of waste needed is 2.67129*10^9, which means we need to put ~61.8 waste into each container.
Since max waste production is 2362.5/min, we'd need ~1130705 minutes to produce enough waste (on max power draw). That's equal to 2 years and 55 days.
quick gorge
What the actual fuck.
edited from 314 hours
You could actually run out of time in this game now.
that's legit scary
wind spade
uhh, needs slight correction
fierce ruin
*with nuclear
wind spade
2 years and 55 days
instead of 314 hours
fierce ruin
phew
wind spade
forgot the waste is per minute and not per second
quick gorge
Oh good.
time to add a mod to make it faster 😉
fierce ruin
lol
wind spade
also this assumes the most optimal placement of waste, so pretty much anything you do with waste would result in longer time to irradiate the whole world
quick gorge
Would RTGs reduce the AoE or death?
wind spade
rtg?
quick gorge
Radioisotope thermoelectric generator
shrewd yacht
hmm... Instant Scrap doesn't feel like its worth it
shrewd yacht
would be nice if wiki one day actually shows total raw resources for each recipe on an item
wind spade
would be nice if wiki one day actually shows total raw resources for each recipe...
that was removed because you can't show raw resources for a single item
since you can take multiple paths to create such an item
shrewd yacht
well thats with ratios all over the place
wind spade
ratios are easy with underclocking 🤷♂️
shrewd yacht
the old setup was perfectly balanced on inputs and outputs with no OC/UC
wind spade
doesn't seem so
shrewd yacht
guess it doesn't matter now that we can set the exact values for production
wind spade
the old setup was even worse than the current one lol
shrewd yacht
kind of funny how they "simplified" it but still feels more complicated to me
and we still use a lot of refineries
upbeat tide
hmm... Instant Scrap doesn't feel like its worth it
Sloppy + electrode + pure is a great combo now
shrewd yacht
so I'm wondering @wind spade how do you weigh the recipes used?
oblique hollow
To answer the goal how much waste is needed to fill the whole world with radiati...
LMAO you did some math? xd
shrewd yacht
least amount of raw resources used?
fierce ruin
hello all trying too get back too this great game can anyone help me with the satisfactory-calculator site i cant some get a hang of it anyone can give me a good vid how this works would be greatly thank full
upbeat tide
Vanilla
Sloppy only
Electrode only
Sloppy + electrode
Instant scrap
This is comparing just the alu scrap stage, but same end output goal
wind spade
so I'm wondering <@!242004363730616322> how do you weigh the recipes used?
weighted raw resources
shrewd yacht
hmm, sucks that adding sulfur is not reducing bauxite use
wind spade
basically more rare resources have higher weight
shrewd yacht
ahh
like for me sulfur is not an issue as I'm not using it for nuclear
so I would love to use it for things
guess its going to be needed for batteries now
wind spade
so for example copper is roughly 2.5 times rarer than iron, so if we have a recipe that uses 2.4 iron ore and recipe that uses 1 copper ore, the first will be used, since it uses less total resources (after weighting them)
wind spade
LMAO you did some math? xd
hopefully it's also correct 😄
shy mason
With all the caterium and aluminum recipes , I find myself out of copper out of most ores.
oblique hollow
then use other recipes
wind spade
hello all trying too get back too this great game can anyone help me with the sa...
what do you need help with? also if that site doesn't suit you, you can try other sites (see pinned post)
fierce ruin
@wind spade i treid a few websites somehow i do things wrong neet a crash course how too use a planner:S
wind spade
<@!242004363730616322> i treid a few websites somehow i do things wrong neet a c...
if you tell me what you're trying to do and send me the link of what you tried, I can show you what you need to do 😉
on either tool
(I'll probably be able to help you best on my own tool, but it's up to you which tool you like the most and suits you best)
fierce ruin
ok got oil 2 normal 2 impure with overclock its about 900 a min need fuel because everything screwed up after the update lol
and if its your tool its fine bij me:D
wind spade
any alternate recipes? or only normal?
fierce ruin
all normal
wind spade
then it's simple, just 15 refineries for fuel 🙂 https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=rG781c9lxlfhmR00pgiw
upbeat tide
With all the caterium and aluminum recipes , I find myself out of copper out of ...
Fused quickwire, alclad, copper sheets, and now casings eata slot of copper for sure
Im olanning another copper ingot expansion. 1800 ore into 4500 ingots
fierce ruin
@wind spade aah ok so you only put whas its need too produce?
wind spade
yeah, in my tool, you only choose what you need.
You can choose either items/min and put in the amount you need, or you can choose maximize, which will make as much as possible from the items available. In the link I sent you, you can click Items, Input and check that I set that you have 900 oil, so it maximizes fuel out of that oil
shrewd yacht
how about a reverse one @wind spade ? I have x amount, how much of y can I make?
fierce ruin
good Q gazer
wind spade
how about a reverse one <@!242004363730616322> ? I have x amount, how much of y ...
you put what you have in Items, Input section and select maximze for y item
shy mason
Maximize the amount of a given item you want to make with given Inputs and alt recipes set
shrewd yacht
and then what?
wind spade
then you go to Production, put in Fuel and select maximize
fierce ruin
ok thx so mutch for the help im getting a little gonna learn it see it in action 😄
shrewd yacht
so the new diluted fuel in blender is not better than the old?
upbeat tide
speaking of new recipies, this is soo much simpler now
same result, only 24 blenders too, so much less floor space
shrewd yacht
I was looking at it for the "new" turbo fuel plant
think you might use more energy to produce the fuel with blenders?
so net gain is lower?
sheesh! maximising turbo fuel creates one big mess
set limit to one mk2 pipe and one mk3 on sulfur and its going all over the place with resources
wind spade
well it's trying hard to produce as much as possible 🙂
cold snow
just wait until you see the flowchart for uranium rods and plutonium rods in one diagramm
shrewd yacht
not something I have to worry about 😛
not doing nuclear unless we are forced at some point
feels like they are trying though with the power requirements of the particle accelerator
upbeat tide
just wait until you see the flowchart for uranium rods and plutonium rods in one...
As somebody who has a functional 31.5/min nuclear rod factory in U3...I have no idea whatcha talkin about 😄
And I either need to
- Wait for encased uranium cell alt to get fixed in U4
- Suck it uo and tap all the uranium nodes and rebuild
shrewd yacht
I'll suck up every last bit of crude oil to make power if I have to 😛
upbeat tide
Its unrealistic to do that
shrewd yacht
and with the new vents I have even more oil 😄
upbeat tide
You need alot of rubber/plastic and even some coke too
shy mason
Particle accelerators are going to screw up everyone's flat power grid lines
shy mason
And blender diluted fuel recipe is going to save my fps when I visit those fields
shrewd yacht
even if I finally got a new PC built with a 5600X now which is way better than my old i5 3570K
so with maximised turbo fuel from a single crude oil pip and sulfur node I can support 245 fuel generators
so around 33GW net power
cold snow
so with maximised turbo fuel from a single crude oil pip and sulfur node I can s...
you aren't limited by oil at that moment tho, that would be 296 fuel gens
shrewd yacht
thats using 600 crude
upbeat tide
596 fuel gens
wind spade
Gazer said from one sulfur node tho 🙂
cold snow
ohhh overread the sulfur
shrewd yacht
its also limited by a single sulfur node
thats going to be the limiting factor on turbo fuel total on map anyway
cold snow
i'm still thinking about how to get all the bauxite from the map to the eastern ocean
can't decide if i want to use trains or just do a huge belt thing
shrewd yacht
if you value performance trains are probably best
cold snow
that would be a huge amount of trains tho
upbeat tide
Mine
shrewd yacht
to many belts will kill the PC
upbeat tide
Its GPU more than CPU horsepower u need for this game
cedar mica
This game starts out more GPU heavy, but changes to CPU heavy, as you build more things that needs calculation
cold snow
^
cedar mica
Unless they have switched to GPU caluclation, with the new update?
cold snow
i dont think so.
going to travel to my iron ingot factory and power it up, then i can tell you in 5 minutes how it looks 😅
upbeat tide
Im happy to get 30 fps in my core base tho, medium settings
shrewd yacht
guess that depends on GPU and FPS limits
my 2060 maxes out easily and did around 60-70fps in my old base
upbeat tide
5700xt and 3700x here
shrewd yacht
new map I see around 90-100 so far
upbeat tide
With 32 gb of 3200 cl14 RAM
cold snow
prior to the update i saw up to 220fps, now it is 100 max
upbeat tide
Check your fps cap setting
cold snow
unlimited
shrewd yacht
old i5 3570K only managed to get like 25fps in some of my areas with lots of constructors
what hardware?
cold snow
Set it to 60 and see if FPS goes down?
why do i want to lower my FPS tho? 🤔
shrewd yacht
oh and I got a new monitor so went from 1920x1200 to 2560x1440p as well
cedar mica
why do i want to lower my FPS tho? 🤔
Just to see if the setting is broken
cold snow
what hardware?
5900x, rx6800xt and 32gb 3600mhz cl16 ram while playing at 1080p
shrewd yacht
fps limiting is working pretty good now
cold snow
Just to see if the setting is broken
capped at 60 then, so it works
shrewd yacht
think i've got my video settings to high as well now with far visibility
cedar mica
capped at 60 then, so it works
Guess something dont want to go beyond 100, with the new engine then
shrewd yacht
what you mean?
cold snow
prior to powering on the iron facotry
shrewd yacht
oh the comment about fps dopping a lot in new update
heh, native language OS...
I just cringe so bad if I set it to Norwegian here
thats an interesting spread of load on the cores
cold snow
ok trains are starting to get ressources, lets wait for them to arrive
shrewd yacht
maybe I have more room on my 5600X as well then
my total load in old factory was like 20-30%
cold snow
but as you can also see on the screen, the GPU just chills
shrewd yacht
yeah, you're CPU limited for some reason
unless there is something messed up with the rendering code
have you tried to disable the virtual cores?
basically running it as a 12 core 12 thread
shrewd yacht
heh
can you get the GPU load up if you're away from any buildings?
doesn't make sense for FPS to go up like that
I would assume rendering is its own thread as well
hmm do you have something else going on in the background?
20GB RAM used is a lot for just this game running no?
or maybe its normal if you've got a massive factory
cold snow
it was only a 10fps increase btw
now i'm in the middle of the dune desert where i didnt build anything and i get 96fps
same cpu load, sligthly lower GPU load
and otherwise nothing CPU heavy is running, after satisfactory discord uses the most CPU 😅 and firefox some RAM. satisfactory is using 6.8GB of ram tho
set everything to lowest possible graphics settings for the lulz, same fps^^ so yeah, CPU is the problem
shrewd yacht
sounds like there is some optimisation to be done tbh
did your CPU clock go up if you're in the middle of nowhere?
now sure how the 5900X behaves
cold snow
which brings me back to the original question, have like 20 trains or so running or just 12 belts making up for ~30-40km of belt?
traintracks would be 9km in total too
shrewd yacht
my 5600X seem to keep 4650 up to 3 core load then it drops 100-200
cold snow
well how large is your save?
shrewd yacht
my old was pretty small compared to many
I had 3-4 manufacturers making turbo motors
my old i5 3570K couldn't really handle a whole lot more as I was down to 20fps or so in some areas
cold snow
i have my small starterbase which sucks, my turbofuel powerplant for 44GW, a ~6000 steel ingot plant and a ~29k iron ingot plant
shrewd yacht
with the new 5600X I was still not limited for my 2060 as it was at 98-99% load as well
getting a new GPU is probably not going to happen this year
cold snow
if you want my save to be cpu limited i could send it 😛
shrewd yacht
haha
tbh I think the 2060 would be the bottleneck for fps in the main factory areas
cold snow
nah those get also CPU bottlenecked
shrewd yacht
the 5600X and 5900X should be pretty equal in this game
cold snow
just uploaded my save to SCIM, seems like i have 26km traintracks already but also 77km of belts
shrewd yacht
heh
checking my old game
12.5km pipes, 83.5km belts
106 extractors and 981 production buildings
22101 foundations
frosty owl
which brings me back to the original question, have like 20 trains or so running...
I think belts would be more performance efficient in this case. 12 belts for 20 trains doesn't seem worth the hassle ^^
cold snow
well it's 20 trains on just one doubletrack
frosty owl
Doesn't sound different
cold snow
ok^^
shrewd yacht
unless it has changed belts are more CPU intensive than trains
frosty owl
You can hide belts under cover to gain some performance, but that doesn't work as well for trains
cold snow
You can hide belts under cover to gain some performance, but that doesn't work a...
does that lower cpu or gpu load?
shrewd yacht
hiding only helps if your GPU limited
the calculations for moving items on the belts still has to be done
the limiting factor is the main thread really
frosty owl
does that lower cpu or gpu load?
Probably more on GPU side, but minorly on CPU too I think
Enough to get a few frames back if you have enough of them
shrewd yacht
once the CPU reaches its limit on that one performance drops
frosty owl
the calculations for moving items on the belts still has to be done
I think it allows for some more optimization, as long as the object is not visible
cold snow
ah well we will see, but now i need to go grocery shopping 😐
frosty owl
unless it has changed belts are more CPU intensive than trains
Train stations are a pain on performance, afaik :/
shrewd yacht
hopefully we'll get some "official" details on this after full release
would be helpful for those that want to build these mega factories and need to squeeze out every last bit of performance
frosty owl
I think they'll just have to "officialize" some fan made content about it ahahahah
But yeah, sure would be helpful :)
cold snow
Train stations are a pain on performance, afaik :/
Well that's bad 😅I thought belts are worse
shrewd yacht
don't really like trains in its current system
frosty owl
They can be. But not of you need more trains then belts, I think :P
1 train beats 2 km of conveyor..... I think?
shrewd yacht
if trains get out of sync and end up entering a loading station at same time one leaves with full and one is empty
frosty owl
don't really like trains in its current system
Trains will get some more love.... Soon™️
™️
shrewd yacht
they should redo the loading so that the materials are fed into the wagons at belt speed
and then an option to say wait for x% load before leaving
frosty owl
I think the loading is fine. But I'd like to have more info about wether stations like: receiving station B can't unload enough from A, items are piling up in both... So you don't have to run around half map to check if you have enough trains to transport what you want and so on
cold snow
They can be. But not of you need more trains then belts, I think :P
1 train beat...
For 780 lines?
frosty owl
For 780 lines?
You can easily transport up to 1k/min per freight (about 1.4/1.5 your max belt speed), so 1 full belt (whichever is your current MK) seems the minimum to me to make them advantageous performance-wise
cold snow
wow then my assumption that i need roughly 20 trains seems to be correct 😄
frosty owl
... For 12 belts? O.o
cold snow
well the plan is to carry all the bauxite from mk3 overclocked miners to the eastern ocean
thats a bit over 4km for the longest single way traindistance
frosty owl
You can have less then 1 freight per node for that. Just merge the impure ones (2 per freight)
Btw, you can TECHNICALLY load 2 normal nodes on 1 freight (1200/min) but that leaves you only less then 10 seconds of wiggle room in your trains timing, thus my suggestion of 1.4 max belt limit to have a decent wiggle room (below 1k/min)
cold snow
🤦 i'm dumb. had something complelty wrong about my train thingy. all my other copper/iron projects have like 3-6 nodes close and use only one train. i somehow thought that i used 1 train per node and need to use that on bauxite too, hence the mistake
seems like 3 pickups and 6 trains now, just to be save and not need to worry about the perfect timing
we really need a trainschedule for such things 😄
upbeat tide
still a WIP, but this is my aluminum scrap plant build
will make 8000 total scrap
sloppy + electrode
frosty owl
I see you left longer pipe segments this time.
That is good :jace_smile_2:
upbeat tide
nah im razing that recycled rubber build totally
made it too tight, very hard to change it up as is
an idea of the underbelly
frosty owl
You know, I started reevaluating the usefulness of underfloors for REFINERIES 🤔
