math-and-meta

[sand garnet]

they said so on stream lol

[oblique hollow]

i think i did a pretty good job on these

(yes, i know, blender isnt out yet and i kinda cheated with it's connections. but its easier to view this way)

[fierce ruin]

blender has 4 ins (2 belts 2 pipes) 2 out s(1 belt 1 pipe)

[oblique hollow]

i know, i cheated with the blender's inputs.
the way we are looking at it here, the 4 inputs should be visible from the front

but idk if thats great for diagram purposes....

this is what it would actually look like

problem is: you cant see the outputs this way

thats why i chose to cheat and just put them on the side

[flat flower]

I'm a bit of a noob. Whats a good basic factory design to make smart plating or whats a good way to design one for my self?

[vast jungle]

get an idea what your planned "production tree" (from factory input to factory output) will be... then look up the input/output rates for each recipe... or use a calculator tool.

then you have to decide how much you want to produce and this then produces the number of machines you need for each step

if they are all below belt-limit, you could just build a couple of manifold lines... (I would suggest not manifolding stuff with stack-size 500)

[keen patio]

Currently for Space elevator parts I just put 3 assemblers down, fed by 6 storage containers, and then hand feed the specific number of parts needed to make the items.

You don't need them in bulk//mass produced, you just need a specific amount.

[flat flower]

ok, Thanks to both of you @vast jungle & @keen patio. For larger things I will make a tree but for this I will just do what Jeslis said! Thanks again!

[glacial hemlock]

You are creating infograph? How about using a single alphabet, like C, A, M, P, R, B, etc

[oblique hollow]

Usually i do indeed add single letters or thr full name onto a machine icon

[sullen cloud]

maybe it could also be a packager MK II?

[sand garnet]

there's no mk2 building so far beyond miners, would be weird if just a packager gets an upgrade

when you can just.. package more stuff by placing more of them

[wind spade]

any upgrade is weird, unless you get some advantage other than speed

[sand garnet]

mk2 versions make sense for objects that are limited to fixed amounts in the world like miners and oil extractors

not for other buildings where you can just make more

[sullen cloud]

Terminology wise, you‘re right. I was more relying on the function. Combing two items with a fluid inside

[oblique hollow]

mk 2 buildings would only make sense if their cost to reward is only viable with very high item numbers.

[shy mason]

there's space saving if anything. Energy shard overclocking can do that in a pinch if you're stuck adding 1 machine into an established and cramp factory.

[fierce ruin]

Especially with refineries that only take in a few tens of ore at a time for a 10x20 is area 8 walls high

[shy mason]

but with finite (not counting doggo), and no end game besides mining everything, you'll eventually use all shards for miners

[wind spade]

we have practically infinite space but theoretically limited power 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

I like to preserve the landscape cuz it's gorgeous af

[shy mason]

I need to get better with walls and coloring to save the eye ache seeing my factories in the valleys

[wind spade]

so using more machines at the expense of space but using less power is generally better thing (obviously when we are talking about people that want to build as much as possible, if you just play the game to have fun without some giga goals, then whatever floats your boat, overclock everything if you want to)

[errant sable]

dang

[wind spade]

add some alts to it 😉

[errant sable]

i wish i had alts

[wind spade]

get alts then 😛

[errant sable]

tier 4

[wind spade]

you should get alts as soon as possible 🤷‍♂️

[errant sable]

i'm definitely not going around without a vehicle or good weapon

[wind spade]

a lot of them are pretty much free tho

[errant sable]

i'll probably get them once i have an explorer and some inhalers

[wind spade]

and a few others are fine with just "run for it" tactics

[errant sable]

actually no that's a dumb excuse
i'm just lazy

[river night]

i can understand not wanting to go out without the xenobasher, the zapper is just crappy, but everything else .. alts are so powerful, at least those nearby i would do early 😄

[manic oak]

I once made a cross country journey with a basher and a Tractor. I wound up with so many rare resources I wanted to bring back that the Tractor's inventory was full, so I had to drive it all the way back through the north forest. There's still random foundation ramps there to this day

[shy mason]

I'd imagine the new ladders would get more use for the drop pod peak climbing, conveyor poles were easier if a watchtower wasn't enough

[manic oak]

Can confirm, ladders are busted for exploration. Never knew the greatest superpower was making floating ladders appear out of thin air

[river night]

oh right i havent been exploring since ladders were added

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, unlimited space, and but very limited power. underclock everything to 50% and you'll be able to make more than twice as much with your 100,000+ power setup.. right? Yeah! But wait, the amount of real world computing power you have to run your game is the real limited resource here... In that case, you're much better off overclocking hard vs worrying about power usage for a giga build.

because your game will become very laggy and unplayable long before you get close to any of the power limits, oil, nuclear, and possibly even coal

[frosty owl]

I'll let you know how that works out once I get over the 2 thousand machines 😂

[topaz hedge]

I'm already there on my old save, 2800 machines at last look according to scim.. It's painful @frosty owl

[frosty owl]

All OCed?? :O

[topaz hedge]

If you're building something, you have to wait a second. the jetpack will throw you way up into the air or slam you into the ground

this was before I realized that cpu power was the real limiting resource on this game. so very little OC

[versed violet]

Does game become more cpu instensive the more you build?

[topaz hedge]

yes

all belts, trains, machines, everything has a cpu cost.

even foundations, although not near as much as a machine, they have a price when they're rendered

[versed violet]

I would think passive elements shouldn't need cpu

[frosty owl]

Still, it's quite the chunky base 😆
By the way, at the moment I'm making an "all OC" megabase for the same reasoning you explained above, thus my "I'll let you know"
Would you be interested in updates, if any important one comes up @topaz hedge ? ^^

[topaz hedge]

Sure, I'm doing the same thing in my new world ven. my AI limiter factory doesn't have a single machine that's not at least 180% OC 🙂 .I might've cheated a bit to get 2500 powershards lol

[wind spade]

that's not always true

[frosty owl]

We do what we gotta do to not waste the most essential resource of them all ⏲️
Tbf, once you got over 10/15 doggos you pretty much get more shards then you can use unless you build terribly fast
How many machines are you up to in the new save, and how did your planning change? ^^

[topaz hedge]

I'd argue that, greenie. very few people have managed to cross even 1/5th of the total power you can produce with oil, and the ones that do have performance issues.

[sinful vale]

unless you have access to some NASA rig you would be hard pressed to run out of power before the pc takes flight

[wind spade]

well if you put all your machines to one place then sure 🤷‍♂️

[topaz hedge]

even if the machine is on the other side of the world. it still has cpu cost :3

[versed violet]

if you have factory that is fa far away, soes it simulate every single item on belt, or just goes 'yeah, 20 input, 21 output, make one stop 1/20th a minute

[frosty owl]

Luckily, belts are considered only when visible, it seems.
So hiding them with walls and such help with performance too, even when close

[topaz hedge]

I'm up to ~1500 machines currently. and as far as planning, I've spread out major factories across the world, and set up a train network to bring everything to one place where I'll be able to make ~40 supercomputers a miunte (at current recipe- in theory, my HSC factory isn't done yet) with minimal machines

[frosty owl]

Isn't that already more production then your previous base? 🤣

Should be close to it, at least ^^

[topaz hedge]

it's about the same, I guess last save made 20 supercomputers and 20 acu's/min in one factory in the dunes.. this one so far just sinks 1.5 million points in plastic/rubber and ingots xD

this is my current world, using trains

and this is my old one.. with the megafactory in dune desert

[frosty owl]

Is the humongous amount of trains needed when so spread out worth the performance?
Rather then just having the base in one area though not too concentrated (like separated by cliffs and stuff)

[topaz hedge]

(I might have moved the turbofuel powerplant from one to the other... shhh) I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure trains are cheaper than belts, but in theory you shouldn't need a bunch of trains? if each train can move 4800 ingots or stuff a miunte, in theory you'd have less vs the number of belts needed to move the same amount

I guess I'm gonna find out in a couple of months lol

[frosty owl]

Depends on the amount of trains Vs belts, I think. I mean, I'm pretty sure my game gets pretty laggy whenever I boot trains up (I build moslty in creative lately, so it's been a while since I turned them on because performance)

I'm going the opposite route: belts rather then trains (I still use them, just the least possible), base concentrated in "one" area (very spread out, but all a single base, no outposts)...
It'd be interesting to confront the progress and performance every now and then

[topaz hedge]

Yeah for sure, we'll see how this works for the both of us.. may our frames stay above 30 and our temps low lol. everything has a cost, and the major breaking point is when the belts lag like mk3/mk4 belts stop moving 270/480. at that point the save is toast.

[frosty owl]

Just keep a small "check system" running in loop. If you lose efficiency, it means your frames are too low for the game to run properly anymore

[versed violet]

Then
You upgrade your pc.

[frosty owl]

Sure
Me and what money :why_so_snutt:

[topaz hedge]

maybe, but the belt lag effects some systems and not others, your check system could be running fine but another system on the otherside of the world... or right next to it could be lagging

thankfully simply upgrading the belt seems to fix it xD

[versed violet]

Its a sidequest. Go outside, gain $. So you can progress.

[frosty owl]

That's the point of the checking system, it needs to be done accordingly ^^

[frosty owl]

Mk6 wait for us...

[topaz hedge]

Well, most of this chat has been about performance issues, that fingers crossed as the game matures and they optimize, it'll be much less relevant closer to 1.0 than it is now. and as it is now (provided you already have a powerful machine) most people won't have any issues.

[median thunder]

only when rendered

[topaz hedge]

So that's everytime you move your camera (:

Perhaps, I don't know much about how that stuff works.

[frosty owl]

Unless it's behind a wall (not in view)
Which brings the everlasting issue: to cover up or to showcase with glass?!
Which one will my PC allow me to have?

[versed violet]

Does anyone have handy how much space in squares I need to make a loop, when track goes along station like this? Need to connect them up basically

[frosty owl]

6x6, pretty much

It's nearly always the same, regardless of the kind of loop 🤔 (unless you try to make it BIGGER ofc)

[versed violet]

well, 5x5, if you don't mind track sticking off last square a bit. definitely 6x6 if you want walls around it

[mossy needle]

Hopfully someone knows, but this is posted in the Official Satisfactory Wiki, and Im assuming it is old/outdated/incorrect math????

By my math, the Current Recipes allow for 300 Crude Oil to be made into 500 Turbo Fuel, only enough fuel for 111.11 generators, not 148, 16,666MW not 22,222...

Unless im missing somthing...?

Crude -> Heavy Res -> Pack'd Dilut Fuel -> Turbo Fuel.....?

[oblique hollow]

works fine for me @mossy needle

[mossy needle]

300 HOR only makes 600 Fuel, not 800??

[oblique hollow]

Alternate Recipe: Heavy Oil Residue

[mossy needle]

yes, so 300 Crude, makes 400 HOR, which makes 600 Fuel, which makes 500 Turbo Fuel?

[oblique hollow]

400 HOR does NOT make 600 Fuel

300 HOR makes 600 Fuel

[mossy needle]

1 sec, my math must be wrong then... ill brb, lol

ok, sooo... im confused....

the recipe above says 30 HOR + 60 Packd Water = 60 Fuel

So times 10, is 300 and 600... ?

So your saying the recipe on the Wiki is wrong?

[oblique hollow]

no, youre either bad at math or REALLY confused right now xd

(400 / 30) * 60 = ?

[mossy needle]

i was until i realized im jus an idiot too, lol

was so totally doing my math just doubling the HOR, bahaha

[oblique hollow]

[mossy needle]

instead of the water, hahahha

[oblique hollow]

yeh, 400 HOR + 800 Water = 800 Fuel

[mossy needle]

yea lmaoo... my excel file sheet i was using to do my math is just stupid rn, hahaha to many side equations and stuff, lol

thanks though!!

[oblique hollow]

np, dont get tangled in another equation

[frosty owl]

So relatable :)
That's oil and math in a nutshell ahahah

[marble coral]

how many generators can I work if Im making 600 fuel a minute?

[frosty owl]

If my memory of them consuming 15/min isn't incorrect, that's 40

[marble coral]

ok so I was right before, nobody was bothered to answer

[fierce ruin]

The wiki answers

[frosty owl]

Wow, that's rare... Also, I confirm after checking the wiki: 15/min, thus 40 gens

[marble coral]

anyways, thanks vencam

[frosty owl]

Most welcome. You've made enough spaghett to kept me fed for a long while, this is the least I can do

[marble coral]

haha

[frosty owl]

I am so blown away by how you can't get 200 exact water/min, but you CAN get 499.2 (both numbers I need)

[oblique hollow]

wdym, no exact 200.
put Extractor on 200, then, if needed, use a Flow Rate Equalizer or Interpolator

[frosty owl]

As in "you can't get that exact number produced"
You'll have overflow

[oblique hollow]

water extractor doesnt have exact 200 setting?

[frosty owl]

200/120= 1.666...
499.2/120 = 4.16 (clockable)

[oblique hollow]

use a valve?

[frosty owl]

Still, overflow will be left :P
I'm not complaining here. Just surprised. Like you said, one would think "isn't there a 200 setting"? Ahahaha

[oblique hollow]

but there IS a 100 setting, right?

[frosty owl]

Nope. Like all machines, it switched to the closest integer clock, so no

[oblique hollow]

0,833333......

[frosty owl]

You either have 0.6 lacking or 0.8 overflow

[oblique hollow]

tbh valve plus interpolator works quite well for me

[frosty owl]

Which still takes more then 150h to fill a big buffer, so I'm ok with not caring or just storing it xD

[oblique hollow]

also, worst case: water extractor backs up.
so what?

[frosty owl]

Nothing. As I said, I'm not complaining here

[oblique hollow]

youre just jesting

ik

[frosty owl]

I'm just blown away.
I mean really, you have an easier time with 499.2 rather then 200 or 400, it is pretty nonsensical in many ways :jace_smile_2:

[oblique hollow]

thats why they mentioned "yuh, decimals would be nice"

[river night]

Wouldnt be surprised if they snuck that into U4, but we'll see

[fierce ruin]

Happy pi day nerds

[sand prairie]

oh yes today is pie day

[wind spade]

6 years back it was better

3/14/15

[fierce ruin]

oh yes the limitations of representing an irrational number

[river night]

its a shame that you need to use the bad US date format to make that happen at all

[fierce ruin]

hey we're still on imperial

so yea we suck at measuring

[river night]

cant wait for the year 3141 .. pi year!

[fierce ruin]

Crashes multimillion dollar probe into mars

[wind spade]

3/14/1592 was a good day 🙂

[upbeat tide]

Taking a final tour of my world before update 4 reaks havoc on it

[fierce ruin]

My baby blue 🎵

[upbeat tide]

Yea I know that it will be on experimental for a few weeks/maybe month just like when U3 came, but I plan to clean sweep my save

Keep tech progress but raze everything

[frosty owl]

Even foundations?! Why?

[fierce ruin]

more like get loststations

[upbeat tide]

My foundation setup is custom based on the build. I like to remove excess

[fierce ruin]

fair, keep the computer alive

[upbeat tide]

That and asthetics

I will miss thee tho

[fierce ruin]

guess it's just time to nuclear some things out

[upbeat tide]

The factory that makes the rods among other things.

Tbh, as long as fused quickwire and cheap cilica dont get messed with, I may not raze this.

Most of those assemblers in the long rows to the right side are just for quickwire and silica

[fierce ruin]

oof not cardinally oriented so beautiful but so close.

[upbeat tide]

Ingame.

Circuit board tower to the left off screen and nuclear rod house in front

Ok, im revisioning a total raze. Lets see how bad it is first

[errant sable]

does anybody have a good design for a 5:4 balancer?

i can't figure out a working design

[upbeat tide]

This game tends to find manifold areays far easier than balancers. That said what exactly are you balancing?

[vast jungle]

split in three, split one of the output in three again... 1/3 + 1/9 = 4/9, 1/3 + 1/9 + 1/9 = 5/9

so I guess you need 2 splitters and 2 mergers

[wind spade]

as Verios said, it's usually easier to not balance and use what's on the belt 🙂

also is that 5 belts to 4 belts, or one belt split to 4/9 and 5/9?

[errant sable]

5 belts to 4 belts
should have been a bit clearer

[vast jungle]

and all 5 belts have different amounts?

[errant sable]

wait nevermind i just figured it out

and yeah they do have different amounts

[wind spade]

then I'd suggest using what's on each belt rather than balancing.

[upbeat tide]

Remember splitters do not split at the same time to all outputs. If you have all 3 outputs connected, its center > left > right > center > left > right > repeating

[paper yacht]

I rarely post a question here. I've always assumed that when using trains one Freight station is only as good as what you fill it with so you had one belt to 480/m fill it the receiving station should be same 480/m on short track . But I'm guessing if you have a longer Loop play a loop around the entire map however much product can fill in the time that it takes the train to do an entire Loop would be the extra that you should have access to on the output?

Depending of course if the product that you're eating from the receiving station you're not eating all of it before the train gets back makes my head hurt trying to figure this out

[sullen cloud]

The table in ‚train throughput‘ should answer all your questions https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Electric_Locomotive

However, you should notice that a train station‘s storage is not filled or putting items out when the train is docking for approx 30 secs

To achieve ‚full throughput‘ it is therefore recommended to have an ind container between train station and the consuming buildings

@paper yacht

[upbeat tide]

@paper yacht its best to have one input and one output station per train. And have only one item for that train. Mixed trains can get wonky.

Also, you need a buffer before the input and after the output. The stations cease unload/load for 20 seconds during the animation.

You can have a single or double track as the main, but simply create branches for the stations them selves

[sullen cloud]

You can ‚fix‘ wonky mixed trains by using smart splitters to make sure that only the desired items are put through

[feral summit]

I don't know if I fully understand the question to be honest. If you have a 480 belt going in one station and a 480 belt coming out the receiving station, that's the maximum throughput you can get. If you empty the receiving station before it gets refilled, like on a longer loop, then you've got a lower throughput than 480.

[paper yacht]

That was exactly my point I saw some extensive models that were run on YouTube by some popular broadcasters on the subject but I'm not been a huge follower of the trains until recently

[upbeat tide]

You have to consider time too. Here is some advice on time

time the round trip (without loading/unload) first, then add 50 seconds. If the total time less than 4m06s, then 1 car per belt. If more than 4m6s, use 2 cars per belt or 2 equal trains. If more than 8min12s, use 3 car per belt or 3 similar trains.

[paper yacht]

I never thought about adding a buffer though of a storage container before the filling unless you're on an extremely short track for instance I have a short track going from one end of the dunes to the other end just delivering Coal.. oh but wait that's right when the train is docking it just disrupts the belt traffic. Man ever since trains were introduced I'm still learning s***

[upbeat tide]

Yea buffer is only to impede the stoppage of movement on the belt or pipe

[paper yacht]

I see some of these train posters that have these monster loops interchanges you got to wonder what all those fancy interchanges are doing to their overall balancing

[upbeat tide]

And if its a liquid train put a pump after the buffer tank

Most of those are just being fancy

Trains have no colission model with one another (currently)

Its not like Factorio trains

[paper yacht]

Every single time somebody mentions train collisions I think back to the Munsters or Addams Family crashing trains is a family pastime

[wary tulip]

And I bet trains will receive collision in the future.... best to plan for it now, and not get into bad habits. 😉

[paper yacht]

So is that pump after a fluid buffer at the train station something new that's been tested or is that like you said just an eye candy Overkill I would think there'd be plenty of pressure from the tank itself without a pump

I'll stop with the questions I'm getting off track here back to the other room

[upbeat tide]

No the punp for fluid is to reset the flow rate. It used to bug out with buffer tanks and could be 0

[mossy pike]

Are fluid trains worth it? I like using train for regular items, but the 1.6k load seemed a bit low to be worth it to me.

[upbeat tide]

Usually id say no. Exception IMO is the desert oil field as there is no water there.

If your using diluted fuel + recycled alts anyway

Best to refine on site

[sullen cloud]

does this apply to all kinds of fluid buffers?

[upbeat tide]

Yes the headlift has to be higher than the tank

As the top of the tank counts

[frosty owl]

You can tell even by the map, thanks ti the humongous amount of belts they produce

[frosty owl]

If you orient that way, you most likely will lose your chance to really fit in the surroundings ;)

[oblique hollow]

its for both flow rate and head lift

because the buffer's head lift is inconsistent (as most should know by now)
it depends on the fill height of the buffer.
Until the buffer is filled 100%, any pump BEFORE it will not be able to transmit its head lift through the buffer

[frosty owl]

Technically, it should be just for headlift 😅

[oblique hollow]

yeah, but it also acts as a one-way valve, so that prevents backflow and ensure a steady outward stream

[frosty owl]

"Steady"...

[wind spade]

so... I fixed that annoying "maximize doesn't work with input" bug

and it was the most stupid bug I've ever fixed

it's working fine now at least https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=htpzDe6Or7wGTLASuIvp

[sullen cloud]

do you have an updated version of one of your charts for that matter?

[oblique hollow]

as steady as can be with liquids. if its not steady enough for you, build a flow rate equalizer or interpolator into your system

[sullen cloud]

e.g. I have fluid buffers in a row, which are filled by one pipe (merged from several refineries), which is going down from a platform, which is 50m higher than the buffers. is the resulting head lift inconsistent?

[frosty owl]

Reported for self-promotion

[frosty owl]

I don't get what you mean by "inconsistent headlift" but... The buffers will be all filled up correctly. The fluid can still climb all the way back up the 50m higher platform

[wind spade]

so link in #welcome is good, but in #math-and-meta it's bad? 😛

[frosty owl]

Ofc!
Makes sense, right? :D

[oblique isle]

Vencam being vencam. Tsk tsk

[frosty owl]

[sullen cloud]

'inconsistent head lift' was a term used by McGalleon above

[frosty owl]

How is that relevant with only an array of buffers? 🤔
The point was that if you put a pump BEHIND a buffer, you will have to wait for it to fill up before the fluid start filling up some of the pipes after the buffer

[sullen cloud]

'Until the buffer is filled 100%, any pump BEFORE it will not be able to transmit its head lift through the buffer', that's what he wrote

[frosty owl]

Yeap
Which means all your buffers will fill up together, not one at the time if that's what you're worried about ^^

[versed violet]

is there any performance difference between walls and foundations? I'd like to "encase" my train spiral so you can't see whats outside. Foundations have gaps while walls don't?

[oblique hollow]

before does not mean "in front of it", aka after

before means it is incoming, not outgoing

[oblique hollow]

(yes, though, i see, there are two definitons for "before")

[oblique hollow]

afaik its miniscule

[versed violet]

found one reason against walls: when you forget to load a wagon of plates

[frosty owl]

I don't think any of the systems I touched up to now would benefit from that...
Most issues I fear come down to the gargantuan pure copper manifolds 😅
You know, just 30 splits each 600 water ||lucky me that I overclock, or it'd be 60 splits ||

[topaz hedge]

proof that the rubber cable alt isn't trash (: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=gxBiQdoGigFTJoPZGRSZ

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=lNtatnMVcrDa2lgiXFTa if you only care about machine count 114 machines vs 284

[wind spade]

why's that called Shared: Shared: Shared: Iron Plate Factory lol

[topaz hedge]

Shh.

[dull bolt]

Copy of copy of copy of final copy of final final copy.

[fierce ruin]

Did you mean Recursion?

[iron prairie]

Machine count is not the sole factor in "what is best".

For example, rubber cable consumes well over 50% more energy, requires more complicated piping/belting, uses a decent chunk of oil (which is relatively scarce and concentrated in a few locations), and refineries do take up substantially more floor space than the smelter/constructor spam of regular cable manufacture.

[gray kayak]

Couldn't agree more

[topaz hedge]

well

If that's the way you want to look at it. then sure, it's trash. The way I look at is, machine count is the most limited resource in the world. If you want to maximize production, and minimize lag, reducing machines is the way to go. As far as the complicated piping and belting, Maybe that's you. I'd rather hook up assemblers and refineries than constructors, it's more interesting.

[iron prairie]

Every additional belt, splitter, merger, train line, power production building, etc.... those also contribute to lag.

[topaz hedge]

There's also the issue of you need 3.5 copper nodes with mk3 miners at 200% with the standard vs 1 node.

If you just need a little bit of cable, by all means the standard way is best (: but if you need thousands, rubber cable is best. Although for reducing machines and belts. you could overclock the wire constructors to 200% and 1:1 them with cable constructors, but there goes your power savings (: But yes, you're right everything you build counts against lag.

[torpid robin]

If you wanna minimise lag don’t build so many foundations lol

Get to around 300k and it starts to lag lol

[topaz hedge]

I've never built that many lol. my previous save had almost 3k machines and half of those were inside one factory lol

[torpid robin]

And if you are going for massive builds . Atm rubber is one of the most limited resources . Not space or power . So if you look at max production rubber cable is bad . Where iron is pretty much unlimited

Going into update 4 though . With the new wells . It will make oil alts more of a viable solution

But if you are starting to also max production . You will get sick of building refineries pretty quickly lol

Like I need 560 just for my iron

[topaz hedge]

I keep hearing oil is the most limited resource over and over.. But has anyone preaching this actually run out of usable oil completely? o.O Well, overclock them all to 200% and you only need 280 (:

[latent fern]

In what situation would you want to underclock any miner or machine? Just started playing again and trying to maximize my proficiency still in early game but trying to make my starting factory as proficient as possible when creating motors and reinforced plates early on

[median thunder]

underclocked uses less power per item

[topaz hedge]

Then again, maybe I like rubber cable because I'm the special case and built a 20/min adaptive control unit factory

[median thunder]

plus it uses a constant amount of power. By having everything in your factory run at 100%, you will have much less power fluctuation, and will be able to use more power

[fading valve]

Anyone got a simple way to balance 5 belts in and out? This isn't load balancing so much as making sure the inputs on one side are spread over all 5 belts on the other side and overflowing if one is full. Basically I want all 5 inputs to behave like I'm pulling from one big buffer. Also all 5 belts are at max capacity and are my best belts.

[latent fern]

Ohh i see so you are making exactly how much you are using so there in no fluctuation in power. Thank you

[iron prairie]

You would presumably need to split the 5 maxed belts into more belts, and potentially have smart splitters with overflow. If line X overflows, it sends some onto line X+1, and the final belt's overflow loops around to merge into the first lien.

[fading valve]

@iron prairie so I kind of have this but I'm going to hit a bottleneck if 2 lines get full with my current design. If two belts get full I will be limited by the final belt. Basically I'm dealing with canister recycling but the items are slowly creeping onto different lines then they started on.

[iron prairie]

This is why, for my DPF plant, I color-coded each of my lines and made sure they never crossed.

Otherwise, 1) Don't max out your belts (that means no slack capacity anywhere), and 2) Use smart splitters with overflow enabled to shift canisters from one line to the next.

[torpid robin]

It’s not the most limited . It’s just one of

[iron prairie]

(also, there are a decent number of people who have overclocked most of the nodes in the game: they have no more nodes, no more OCs to take advantage of)

[torpid robin]

Lemme find a screen shot

[torpid robin]

#screenshots message

And the 2 below that one . That’s how I do mine

Plug any amount of resource in on one side. Then pull any amount out on the other side. All I need to do is work out how much goes in and out

It works on over flow splitters on the outgoing side then merge into the one beside it

But I have all the buffers full . And connected to each other so they cycle . So I can put any amount into the system at any point along the line and it all works out

[fading valve]

Oh interesting @torpid robin ... so you first try to fill the container then use the smart splitter to send it down like a normal manifold to fill the rest?

[latent fern]

At 100% efficiency how much coal does a 1 coal gen need to make its power?

[iron prairie]

15/min, with 45 water/min

[latent fern]

Thank you

[torpid robin]

So each belt I have . No matter what is on it goes into the bottom input . Then on the output. It then smart splits to the left (or right . Depends what way you set it up ). Then it merges with the line to the left . Then that line smart splits to the left and merges so on and so forth

You do that right to the end . On the last belt you smart split to the left still but then send it all the way back to the 1st to remerge

So once the 1st line is full or backed up . It all over flows to left . Then the 2nd line will fill up and over flow to left and so on

But what I found is you need to connect all the containers up too. Cause if you plug a heap of belts half way down the line . The 1st ones starve

So if they are all full to begin with . And all connected together so it’s all just cycling through the system . You can plug any amount Into any container and it will all even itself out

[latent fern]

How many pups can be connected to one pipeline ? Says max flow of 300 is there any way to up that or is that cap?

Sorry nvm i see that there is a mk2 version down a few tiers :) Dont think that was a thing when i last played or dont remember it

[torpid robin]

It came last update

[frosty owl]

Bruh, how rude of me. I remembered to make jokes but not the most important part 🤦‍♂️
Thanks for the hard work! 💯

[wind spade]

you don't want to know what the issue was tho

[frosty owl]

I didn't ask :P

[wind spade]

then I won't tell you 😛

[vast jungle]

what was the reason? 😉

[frosty owl]

Drums rolling

[wind spade]

I always assumed it's something deep in the matrixes used to calculate stuff with linear programming methods... Spent a lot of long evenings over the course of last year doing the math, trying to figure out what's the problem, never got to the issue.

Now as I am preparing tools for U4, I'm rewriting some parts of the code, so I decided to look at it again... And after two hours I found the issue.

solution was replacing

$input = [];

with

$input = $productionRequest['input'];

[vast jungle]

oh...

[wind spade]

turns out that for maximize requests, I've been just throwing away the whole Input for no reason

[vast jungle]

welcome to the party... I remember debugging a "slightly" defective dijkstra-algorithm... only to discover I managed to NOT clear all former data before starting the next iteration... 😄

but good that you found the bug

[wind spade]

literally the stupidest mistake I've ever made, almost made me quit programming for good

[vast jungle]

glad that you got over this point without throw up all the tables ^^

[wind spade]

(second most-stupid mistake was when I was sending mass emails for subscribers and forgot to clear email object before sending next email, so it looped and sent email to A, then sent the same email to A and B, then sent the same email to A, B and C, ... Luckily I caught this during testing, otherwise it would be pretty bad GDPR fee 😄 )

[wind spade]

I'm considering breaking my keyboard since I recently ordered a new one 🤔

[vast jungle]

if it helps, why not 😉

[wind spade]

it won't help with my bad code tho

keep this in mind next time you're gonna want to trust the tools

[vast jungle]

I think its a sign of improvement if someone recognize its old code as "not that good"...

[wind spade]

I've been calling that code "pretty bad" since I wrote it 😄

[frosty owl]

Insert buffed greeny explaining a guy how he does one push up each time he regrets a programming mistake

[wind spade]

it was a prototype replacement to do the calculations on server instead on client (as most browsers started dying with U3 calculations) and I never got to implement it properly

[wind spade]

I gained like 10kg in last two years 🤷‍♂️ I wish I could lose some 😄

[frosty owl]

Blame simon the quarantine

[wind spade]

yeah, mostly that. But also me being lazy and just doing bed -> pc -> food -> pc -> bed cycles 🤷‍♂️

[vast jungle]

I used my bike a lot to get to work... but that is a bit unnecessary for homeoffice

[wind spade]

I work from home for last 5 years 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

Heh, I thanks my weird DNA mix for allowing me not to get fat despite doing exactly that
I'm just... Fat on the inside

[frosty owl]

Put a cyclette between your bed and your PC, fix it to run the distance you had to make before
Now you can imagine biking to the office again! :why_so_snutt:

[vast jungle]

its just not the same 😦

[topaz hedge]

I'd say make a bike that powers your pc so you have to keep riding it. but unless you have some kind a low powered laptop(chromebook), that's just not possible lol

[frosty owl]

I remembered an ad about human-powered things. Took an Olympic champion to toast a single slice of bread, so I think you right

[topaz hedge]

That's pretty impressive considering a toaster is ~1200W. but it's also a resistive load that doesn't care about low voltage. 1hp is ~750W and as much as I'd like to think so, I'm no where near that strong, and even if you could push a bike turning an alternator to generate that much power, there's no way you'd sustain it at a stable voltage or for very long lol

[frosty owl]

Took him a minute of very hard work

[oblique hollow]

I just noticed.... If priority switches work as i expect, i could build new pipeline control circuits, because then i can control pumps conditionally and divert fluid based on that

[frosty owl]

Man had thighs wider then my chest though

[pliant zephyr]

any ways to solve this?

is it even possible to achieve 100% efficiency when making concrete

[wind spade]

yes, you can underclock the miner or constructors

[torpid robin]

add another constructor and downclock it

[pliant zephyr]

alr one sec

[river night]

the only redeeming fact of limestone is that wet concrete at least has a rate that agrees with miners

[pliant zephyr]

45 per min

is kinda frustrating

i think its solvable but ill leave that to my resource-rich smart future self

i still need to make a caterite farm for smart splitters or mergers, not sure which one it was

[wind spade]

3 constructors, one at 67%, they eat pretty much exactly 120 limestone/min

[pliant zephyr]

You can do it with two constructors tho i think

[wind spade]

sure, one at 100% and one at 167%, but that eats more power 🤷‍♂️

[pliant zephyr]

Im trying to do stuff using my own brain too, ive heard itll come in handy in the future

No like

Hold on

[wind spade]

if you want to consume 120 limestone, then you need a total of 267%, doesn't matter how you split it between any number of constructors, as long as it totals to 267%

other way is to underclock the miner, but that produces less concrete at the end 🤷‍♂️

[pliant zephyr]

oh yeah

damn concrete is annoying

[wind spade]

nah, it's fine

[pliant zephyr]

Why ficsit, why 😩

[vast jungle]

Concrete is nice... WET concrete is great

[pliant zephyr]

i mean you could do it with uh

180 limestone coming in

right?

splits into 90 and 90, then into 45 45 45 45

[wind spade]

or just manifold

--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X

[pliant zephyr]

manifold?

[wind spade]

that ^

[pliant zephyr]

what is that

[wind spade]

how most people split their resources 🤷‍♂️

[pliant zephyr]

im kinda new lol

[wind spade]

S = splitter
X = any machine

it allows you to easily expand later when you upgrade miners and belts

by just adding machines to the row

[vast jungle]

@pliant zephyr the trick with spitters is that if one output blocks, its "share" is redirected to the rest of the outputs

[torpid robin]

the trick is dont listen to @frosty owl and all his lies about balancers

[frosty owl]

Balancing is love, balancing is Shrek life

[vast jungle]

does a (specially) unbalanced merger counts?

[river night]

a smart engineer uses both methods as appropriate 🙂 Clean easy splits with maybe 2 levels of splitters (maybe 3 in rare extreme cases), sure i'll build a balancer (eg. 4/6/9), complicated stuff? Manifold that thing. 🙂

[pliant zephyr]

So i play a bit of satisfactory, and think of myself as an enguneer, then i check in on this discord and just close the game and play something else

Im self conscious of my intellect

[vast jungle]

just don't take this too serious here...

[river night]

so which category does a 2 way split fall into? Does it depend where I place the splitter and which side i put the input if its a balancer or manifold? 😄

[pliant zephyr]

The trick is dont ask questions in here, itll make it worse

Because im very confused

Ill just do the thing with three constructors

[vast jungle]

I think the thing you should try out is how over- and especially underclocking makes things easier

its the way SF allows you to adapt non-fitting rates of machines to your problem

[pliant zephyr]

Sf?

[vast jungle]

SF = Satisfactory

[river night]

underclocking isnt strictly required, especially very early on when you build the first concrete constructor you might not have underclocking yet, but it of course saves you power

[pliant zephyr]

I do have underclocking

And i have the slug batteries too

[frosty owl]

If it is made to provide the right amount from a belt immediately, it's a a balancer imo
Tbf, most of my balancing is just 1 to 3 levels of splits. Then I just balance/manifold those small sets :P

Old times, when a "small set" didn't imply "between 2 and 12 machines" 😆

[frosty owl]

Things generally just work
It's how close you wanna get to 100% efficiency that brings you into the shenanigans :jace_smile_2:

[river night]

i'll often build hybrid systems just because of where my input belt arrives, so i might split it 50/50 and manifold the two sides, etc

[frosty owl]

Whenever I manifold, I want my belt to bring at least double the item/min needed by machines. The waiting time for it is what annoys me the most after all (also looks, but those can be adjusted)

[pliant zephyr]

ooh actually u can do mk2 on a pure node and then sink a part of the liestone into the awesome sink

im gonna do that later

wait can you chuck in nuclear waste into the sink?

[river night]

no

[pliant zephyr]

damn

[frosty owl]

Try and find out

[pliant zephyr]

r u supposed to just put it as far from yourself as you can?

[vast jungle]

yes

[frosty owl]

Unless you like keeping your hazmat suit on ^^

[frosty owl]

Bruh, if you say like this you turn people away from finding Easter eggs 🥺

[pliant zephyr]

o easter eggs?

[frosty owl]

👆

[pliant zephyr]

okie

[topaz hedge]

So I discovered something, if you're running a max belt manifold ie mk4 belt with 480 going in and 480 being used, feeding it from the center avoids the max belt glitch

[frosty owl]

I'm unsure what glitch you're referring to

[topaz hedge]

More of a bug? Max belts losing speed in manifolds due to fps or some other issue

[sand garnet]

you're already having FPS issues at mk4 belts?

[topaz hedge]

It doesn't take me long. Lol. But I think if you max a manifold ex 16 smelters using 30 ea = 480 and if you feed it from one side, it just has issues getting to the last two machines. But if it's fed from the middle it's fine

Most people probably don't max belts.. for some reason I enjoy doing it

[sand garnet]

what hardware do you have and what FPS?

[topaz hedge]

Fps locked at 30. 3600x, 32gb@3600mhz and 2080ti

[sand garnet]

why locked at 30? how big is your save?

[topaz hedge]

Haven't checked the fps in the console yet to see what it's doing. It's about 7mb and 1600 machines

[sand garnet]

why dont you just unlock your FPS?

I feel like you're artificially creating a negative scenario for yourself where there wouldnt be one otherwise

[eternal goblet]

i have a 2060, with a 1K HR save, and don't have an fps issue

[topaz hedge]

Perhaps, there's no harm in letting vsync lock it at 60 for now. Eventually I'll have to lower the graphics settings and turn it back down.

[eternal goblet]

just unlock it completely, let it run as fast as it can

why would you limit it?

[topaz hedge]

My last world had nearly 3k machines and the dune desert was almost unplayable. Fps averaged 10-20

[sand garnet]

I suggest not building everything in 1 spot

especially a spot that has long sightlines

[topaz hedge]

Because I like having vsync on, as I can't stand tearing, I don't like the extra noise caused by my gpu going fullpower, unless there's some sweet rtx happening. And many people have said unlocked fps causes issues

[sand garnet]

unlocked fps causing issues? never heard of that

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, I learned my lesson, dune desert is empty except for a trainline on this save (:

[sand garnet]

the only FPS issues I know of are the 'very low fps' kind

well that, and the high fps causing insane speedboost issue

but that has been fixed

[topaz hedge]

I'll unlock it and let vsync handle it, and leave it that way until I start running into issues because of machine count. Fingers crossed the engine upgrade helps with that

[latent fern]

If i were to overclock a Mk1 miner to 200% on a pure node it would give me a 240 output. But My current conveyor can only push 120. Could I put it on a 1 to 2 Balancer and keep the 240 output from the miner or would I still be bottle necked by the belt to the splitter ?

[frosty owl]

Sounds like it doesn't depend on belts MK then

[frosty owl]

The latter 👍

[sand garnet]

belts and pipes are always the limiting factor in this game

[river night]

being able to connect a splitter to a device without a belt in between would be nifty, but alas, its not possible, so you cant avoid the limitation of your belt speed

[sand garnet]

it would break the whole logistic system and the game design revolving around upgrading your tech

[latent fern]

Thank you

[static rock]

Hi guys, i was wondering if anyone has a second to discuss an idea i had around creating automation wire with powerlines...
Im close to getting it right but i need help with some weird ideas i had

[vast jungle]

"creating automation wire with powerlines"... I think you should explain this sentence...

[static rock]

Ok so... At the moment the outcome is a signal light using the new batteries.
The idea is that you would have a power consuming system for example and unpackager and a packager, fueled by a SMALL amount of fuel on a conveyor belt

Something like fabric, and you would get the output of a factory, and merge it with the fabric, and then smart filter it out later

As the rate of the factory increases its output, there is less coal* (i meant coal <.< >.> ) getting through in the belt, less fuel gets to a reactor, battery turns on

[oblique hollow]

So basically, reduce the amount of coal more and more by producing more items until it activates the power storage....?

[static rock]

correct
And the top of the battery looks pretty like a LED hahahaha
So if you look at the battery, and its on, then the factory is producing items

If you look at the battery and its off, then all the coal is getting into the gen, meaning that its not producing

[oblique hollow]

I think the priority switches would be better for that purpose

Though its not quite clear how exactly they would work

As they havent been (officially) teased

[river night]

or if they even exist 😄

[oblique hollow]

At this point im dead certain. They HAVE to

Else power management is an absolute incomprehensible nightmare

[river night]

its really not changing

everyone keeps throwing that around, but for a fully running factory there is really no major difference

[median thunder]

or else power management is inefficient*

[static rock]

But here is what im thinking in turn...
Is there a way, i could detect this change with conveyor belts and turn it into a not gate...

To explain, what i think would be amazing if i could see the output of the factory is low, and use this to turn on other power generators, in turn turning up the factory

[oblique hollow]

Or else power management is disappointing

[oblique hollow]

Conveyors... No.
Pipes? Absolutely. NOT Gate is a proven concept for pipes

[static rock]

please explain

[oblique hollow]

Gladly

https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/User:McGalleon/Pipeline_logic

Mind you this is very experimental

[topaz hedge]

But is a mosfet a logic gate?

I always thought those were very complicated pairs of fet that created logic

[wicked tinsel]

well, yes

he made the gates from those tho

conveyors logic is possible, but requires priority mergers

that we dont have :<

[topaz hedge]

So from your pipeline logic.

[oblique hollow]

Mosfets can be used to construct logic gates

[topaz hedge]

if I fuck it's been a miunte

[oblique hollow]

Thats a real thing

[topaz hedge]

if I apply voltage, or fluid to the gate does that turn the mosfet on?

[oblique hollow]

Yes.

[topaz hedge]

Mk.

[oblique hollow]

Specifically: you need head lift

Head lift is the voltage here

[topaz hedge]

if I remove the voltage or fluid, does it float the gate and stay on as a real mosfet would without a gate drain?

[oblique hollow]

And like real mosfets, they need drains to ground to clear their state

[topaz hedge]

hehehe.. that's niftly

[oblique hollow]

:)

Its a monstrosity

But it works

[topaz hedge]

the schematic at the bottom is for the nand gate?

[oblique hollow]

Yes, a bit reduntant, but it works nontheless

I could simplify it, but i was too lazy

[vast jungle]

and then you use the water to fuel a coal-powerplant to turn "water" into electrical power and from there to factory-activitity?

[oblique hollow]

@static rock lost for words? xd

[oblique hollow]

The exact usage is still..... Fuzzy

But the new power system could help there

[topaz hedge]

I dunno if that could be simplified.

[oblique hollow]

The pipe one not, but the electric circuit definitely can be simplified

[topaz hedge]

the last two mosfets are to keep the led from getting backfed and turning on, the first mosfet is the input switch/gate but I've no idea what the one in the middle does

[static rock]

yes, im considering how i can use fuel as the flowrate tracker, and therefore turn flowrate into bool logic

[topaz hedge]

I'm not a EE. the best I can do is read those and find what's broken lol

[oblique hollow]

Very first mosfet at the bottom is basically the AND, the ones and the back are a CMOS Inverter, aka NOT

[static rock]

but then i need to figure out how to reverse it and turn the bool logic back into flowrate to other generators

[oblique hollow]

The only problem with fluid logic gates is the constant need to sink any "drain" flow rate

[median thunder]

which takes plastic

[oblique hollow]

Buuut.... That could be solved with generators!

[topaz hedge]

lol

[fierce ruin]

i like cheese

[oblique hollow]

Just drain the fuel to fuel gens. They will chug it all

After U4

[median thunder]

I wonder if you could use two different liquids for the two binary states

[oblique hollow]

Im afraid not.

Mixing is prohibited

The binary state is the direction of where the fluid flows to

It either flows to Y or NOT(Y)

[topaz hedge]

The only circuit I tried to design, next time I'll come to you. I drew my groundplanes wrong and had signal traces next to power traces and the power trace induced voltage on the signal trace and fried my driver IC

[oblique hollow]

Ouch

[topaz hedge]

SMPS circuits are kinda complicated. lol

They're simple on paper, but by design where those traces/wires go to drive the gates matter at 150kHz lol

[oblique hollow]

Yeah, you usually never want to have power traces. You mostly try to switch a relais with a transistor for anything thats not on the control circuit

I would go the save route and just use cables soldered to the circuit board to deal with the power circuit.
Or use optocouplers

[topaz hedge]

this was supposed to be kinda small and compact. it was low voltage stuff, 12V @ 10A bucked to 5V at 40A

[oblique hollow]

40 A holy heck

In my line of work 1 A is already a lot

[topaz hedge]

not for continuous, just for ~3S at a time

[oblique hollow]

(we might wanna move to #off-topic-general for this)

[topaz hedge]

Maybe xD

[vast jungle]

12V @ 10A ? Output goes to a Motor?

[violet spire]

I'm beginning to get into a larger factory now and have unlocked the casted screw alternate recipe... i haven't really been paying attention to ratios/clocking up until now, but i figure that it's about time.

Can my learning be as simple as matching the output of a node (i'm only on ... normal right now I think) to the input of the smelter that it's going to, and in turn matching that to the constructor/assembler?

When do I need to start factoring in belt speeds, and when do I start upgrading all of my mk.1 belts? So many questions.

[fierce ruin]

"When do I need to start factoring in belt speeds" Always

[violet spire]

I mean in relation to trying to learn ... ratios?

not sure what term i should be using.

[iron prairie]

Buildings conveniently display their input/output per minute.

[violet spire]

I'll boil it down to this: When looking to match speeds of machines, can I blindly match the ore production rate to the smelter numbers?

[iron prairie]

For the most part, yes, assuming that the belt leading out of your miner is fast enough.

The most notable exception is T3 miners on pure nodes, which have a theoretical capacity of 1200 ore/min when overclocked to 250%, but are limited by T5 belts, which max out at 780 items/min.

[violet spire]

I'm really, really far from that, and hoping to understand enough of the basics so that when I get to that point it'll just be second nature 🙂

[iron prairie]

If you're wondering:

T2 belts: 120 items/min (reinforced iron plates)
T3 belts: 270 items/min (steel beams)
T4 belts: 480 items/min (encased industrial beams)
T5 belts: 780 items/min (alclad aluminum sheets)```

[violet spire]

ah. that's all super helpful, and i now see that i have to upgrade my RIP production lines... lmfao ... thank you Silly! I appreciate you taking the time 🙂

[river night]

RIPs are the first chance to build a decent self-contained production line for a product you actually need quite a bunch early on, so I enjoy making those 🙂

[iron prairie]

Reinforced iron plates feature nice, beautiful ratios which work out neatly.

<screams in alclad aluminum sheets w/ electrode aluminum scrap>.

[fierce ruin]

or silica ratios

[sand epoch]

ratios be damned.. that's what Sink's are for

[gilded maple]

Is 10,000 steel/min too much for any real use?

[peak estuary]

depends on what you use it for. if you have every recipe and can use different things with steel, then no.

[gilded maple]

I have a refinery set up that can make 9,600 coke/min which I could cut down to 7500 coke/min and use the rest for diluted fuel. Then use the alt recipe for coke/iron to make 10,000 steel/min

[peak estuary]

ok

ask yourself. why do you need so much steel? just for the kicks or are you really making that much other stuff?

[topaz hedge]

well. steel can make anything that can be made from iron. plates, rods, screws. etc

just faster and more efficient. issue with using coke though, is you tend to need plastic for steel coated plates. but it's not much. 60 plastic a min makes 480 iron plates/min

[gilded maple]

Well I’m trying to plan out a base in my head before I build it, I have the logistics for 4320 iron ore/min set up, so I’ll need to get enough to get me to 10k to still produce iron ingots. I’m kind of leaning more towards 6,000 coke/ore and 8,000 steel so I can still make more easily make iron wire. If I get more ore

I was thinking still using basic iron plates bc plastic may be limited and I need it elsewhere in the computer line

[versed violet]

Sounds like a beginning of bottle cap collector tale. Then you get invited to tv and share stories how you got there 👍

[topaz hedge]

All that steel and no steel coated plates and iron wire </3

[gilded maple]

My initial plan was just to do all coke bc I have so many coal generators and make steel coated plates, but I’m realizing I would have to set up a lot more coal power before I could safely run my factory on all coal/geo

I haven’t gotten T7 yet, I’ve unlocked everything else just been focusing on this base and maxing it out and now I’m kind of like why on earth would I need 10,000 steel

[topaz hedge]

I like ironwire, but I hate it. 22.5 is such a nasty number to try to work with

[versed violet]

Well, youre not on Earth

[gilded maple]

Facts

[topaz hedge]

Well if youre gonna go for all steel, beef up your plastic production with recycled loops for steel coated plates and Beef up your rubber production for caterium computers.

[gilded maple]

That’s with the heavy oil residue alt recipe, is that efficient at all with making plastic/rubber?

[topaz hedge]

Yes. 1 oil becomes 3 plastic/rubber

Hor + diluted fuel+ recycled plastic&rubber

[versed violet]

Diluted fuel sounds like perfect opportunity for a pun.
Cue someone new come in.
Ask:

• How do I make Dilated Fuel?
• You need to get closed to light speed.

[gilded maple]

I’m kind of thinking 6,000 coke for 8,000 steel, then 2400 diluted fuel for 24,000 MW and then honestly straight resin to plastic/rubber then optimizing for plastic/rubber elsewhere and making this one more of a coke/power plant.

[topaz hedge]

Well.. one of the beauties of this game is you're free to do stuff however you please (:

[manic oak]

I'm actually planning my own steel factory right now, with similar inputs (oil for Coal Coke and iron ore). Here are the stats:

I set the goal for Heavy Modular Frames to be 60/min, with the biggest limiting factor being iron plates and reinforced iron plates (due to the limited amount of plastic and rubber without bringing any in via train). Turns out you can get there with 80 leftover polymer resin/min and 3940 steel ingots/min in excess. The amount of plastic and rubber needed is just that small. Even then, there's still plenty of leftover iron ore to just use basic recipes with. Note that this assumes T3 drills, fully overclocked. The numbers will obviously be lower if you don't have T3 drills.

Also, once the frames fill up in storage, you're now making 160 Modular Frames/min, 200 Encased Industrial Pipes/min, and 720 Steel Pipes/min. Then, once the Modular Frames fill up, you're making 960 Steel Rods/min, 240 Reinforced Iron Plates/min, and 720 Iron Plates/min. Or you can just limit the HMF and MF early on by splitting off resources for storage.

[topaz hedge]

Yup, and 720 iron plates a min, probably uses like what, 120-140 plastic to make steel coated plates, they're rather cheap considering how much you get out of it

[manic oak]

Yup, this setup only uses plastic and rubber from the polymer resin produced by making Coal Coke, so those Alts are extremely useful in this case. And I still have about 4000 Steel Ingots leftover

[gilded maple]

I like that, I’m getting almost all my iron from the desert and the oil from crater lake so I’m transporting all the final oil by train to just north of the red forest where my main base is being built

[manic oak]

Slightly NorthEast of the Pink forest is three oil nodes. If you combine that with all of the iron and limestone from the north forest, you can build the factory I'm building now.

https://gyazo.com/754827b92ecf63db20a21f52ac71579c

[topaz hedge]

Too bad I used that pretty pure node for power lol

[manic oak]

There's two normal nodes and two impure nodes nearby that you can use, but that's 300 less oil.

[gilded maple]

I’m basically at 4 pure oil nodes each pushing OC to 600, plus an impure

[gilded maple]

I could honestly probs just use those 3 in my factory to make up for any plastic/rubber shortages

[waxen spear]

i need to understand the water line pumps better

or my math is off, does a Nuclear plant need two water pumps merged into one MK2 line?

[oblique hollow]

Line Pumps or Extractors?

[versed violet]

Five extractors to fill mk2 pipe, can power single OC nuke

[latent fern]

So when adjusting clockspeed some of the % had a decimal value say like .15 does that have much effect on how much it consumes or would it just be the full number rounded...

So i am trying to run 3 Foundries for steel off a 120 belt. I can run 2 full ones and im trying to underclock the 3rd and trying to find the correct % im at 67% right now but it is taking 30.15 coal and iron ore if im running it all off of a 120 belt would there be any issues on resources of the foundry not having enough or would it be fine

[river night]

it would just pause once in a while as it runs out of resources

but without higher precision input thats the best you can aim for

[fierce ruin]

how much does the foundry require

per min

[vast jungle]

45/min with default Steel recipe

[fierce ruin]

grim can to get it to like 65%

[vast jungle]

the problem is that 45 = 3x3x5... and there is no precise percentage for a factor of 3... and a factor of 5 is not that useful in this case. so either go to 67% (a bit more input to make sure it doesn't starve) or build a larger system

[fierce ruin]

well 240/5

[vast jungle]

you can always multiply with the "bad" divider to get a round number

[fierce ruin]

that would be 48

yea

[vast jungle]

360 = 8x45

I don't think you can find a smaller flat number scheme which is a multiple of 120...

[fierce ruin]

no

[vast jungle]

or you could take one 120 and on 60 belt and distribute them to 4 foundries...

[fierce ruin]

thats still funny math

[latent fern]

Thanks for the help will just push it to 65% now so i get the most output for my current belt

[fierce ruin]

to get it exaclt 100% requires funny spliter/merger work

[latent fern]

Huh what is this funny spliter/merger?

[fierce ruin]

dont worry about it

dont think itll work in your case

[river night]

there is nothing wrong with setting it to 67 and just having the machine pause occasionally, I would favor that largely over having it be below peak efficiency 😄

[fierce ruin]

if you want it exact 100% belt 3 240 and 5 founderies puts it 48 each

15 extra

could belt 15 extra to the coal generator

but geting it exactly 15 is a little tricky

[latent fern]

So a 1 to 3 240 splitter ? or run 3 separate drills

[fierce ruin]

1 to 5

[river night]

just get solid steel, it makes for nicer factors

[fierce ruin]

^

probably easier math

[vast jungle]

pure Iron, Solid Steel and Copper Alloy! 🙂

[fierce ruin]

soild steel

[latent fern]

Is there a specific hard drive i need to find for those recipes or is it random

[fierce ruin]

can easier do a 120

random

but you can do the save before maming hard drive

then reload if its not there

[river night]

you have to wait the 10 minute research time every time, in that time you could just go collect more harddrives

[fierce ruin]

but you need 120 iron ingots a min

[vast jungle]

yes, you can build a temporary MAM when you find a HD, activate the HD, remove the MAM and continue on your quest...

[river night]

yup thats what I do

[topaz hedge]

the need for pure iron is debatable with solid steel. without pure iron, you can OC 1:1 smelters with foundries very nicely, and you'll need equal amounts of coal and iron. with pure iron, it's a bit more complicated, and you still need the same amount of coal, but less iron

and water...

[river night]

pure iron is never "wrong", you just have to find extra uses for the extra iron 😄

[topaz hedge]

I'd rather not build refineries if I don't have to (:

[vast jungle]

and there are a few really good places on the map... with lots of iron, lots of coal and some copper... and a lake for water

[fierce ruin]

youll need a node thats 120min with a mk1

[river night]

i like a steel factory at crater lake, coal and iron nearby, as well as water

[fierce ruin]

or 2 normal nodes

[topaz hedge]

if equal coal and iron nodes, water or no water I'll opt for smelters. if there's more coal than iron and water, well pure iron is definitly worth it at that point.

[vast jungle]

exactly... get coal from the crater lake, iron and copper and water from the rocky desert just down the ramp... perfect for 2000 Steel, 800 Iron and 1000 copper ingots 😉

more with mk3 miners

[topaz hedge]

crater lake.. if that's the area in the middle of the map with the 1 pure and 2 normal, that area is by coal and sulfur.. nice for power generation too.

[vast jungle]

there are 3 pure coal nodes near the rocky desert in crater lake

[river night]

there is 3 pure coal near 3 pure iron and 1 pure copper

[vast jungle]

and a ramp for getting a nice train line between the upper part (crater lake) and the lower part (rocky desert)

and its right at the end of the tunnel below the red forest too

[topaz hedge]

When pure nodes mean nothing to you.

[river night]

i always had a conveyor there, mostly because i build that very early 😄

[vast jungle]

I have a station called "Coal Hill" up at crater lake and the huge Smelting complex down at the lake in the rocky desert

[topaz hedge]

Pure nodes are nice for midgame though ^^ but once you get mk3. normal is the only pure you need

unless oil.

[latent fern]

Will have to look into this crater yall speak of

[vast jungle]

"Belt not fast enough" problem...

[topaz hedge]

count calc had a nice area pointed out in the middle of the map for steel, now I'm torn between exploting all of the coal in dune desert for steel, or going his route and using coke steel

[vast jungle]

not sure coke steel is really worth the effort...

[topaz hedge]

it is.

if you're willing to invest in it. it's the fastest per machine way to make steel, and it uses the least amount of iron

[river night]

iron is not a very limiting factor though

and speed .. well thats just power

at the expense of oil? that seems far more limited

[vast jungle]

I still prefer Solid Steel over Coke Steel... no oil involved

[topaz hedge]

Sure, but our priorities are all a little different here (: my world has it's own problems. and until I get a nasa supercomputer, I doubt I'll run out of oil, or iron

I like solid steel too. however coke steel is by no means a bad way to do it if you need a bunch. @manic oak

[vast jungle]

similar to me liking Copper Alloy...

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, I mean in this case, there really isn't a wrong way to make steel, coke or solid with coal. I don't remember what count said he was able to pull out of that area though

Hm, it actually doesn't look like the return is that great on coke steel

[fierce ruin]

henning with the more oil nodes

[vast jungle]

solid steel has the best "iron for steel" proportion.when combined with Pure Iron... but all these Pure Iron refineries are "not that great"...

[topaz hedge]

I could've swore coke steel used less iron, well I'm mistaken

[river night]

solid steel always has the best iron for steel ratio

maybe endgame with oil pressurizes will make us re-consider using more oil for things, we dont know exactly how common those will be

or how much oil it generates

[vast jungle]

I already now I will be hunting for more sulfur in the future... for a second TF powerplant

[topaz hedge]

Maybe, It already feels like the whole oil is such a limited resource thing is very much overstressed here already xD

[fierce ruin]

75/min iron orr wolf

[topaz hedge]

even if they double it, I doubt the attitude towards that will change lol.

[river night]

its not like its wrong, what are you going to do with coal later on 😄

[fierce ruin]

theres pently of iron

plus more oil nodes

[topaz hedge]

This is true, the only use for coal on my world IS steel making

[fierce ruin]

ahem

aluminium

post update 4

[topaz hedge]

my issue with the there's plenty of iron argument is; yes there's lots, but I'm not gonna go try to tap every node in the world lol

I go by what's available within a radius to where I decided to build whatever. as I don't enjoy running long belts, or setting up a train line for a handful of nodes.

[vast jungle]

quartz and sulfur (and uranium if you want to go nuclear) are the bottlenecks for lategame... and maybe nitrogen will become one too

I am thinking about setting up a trainline all the way from Northern Forest to the outer edges of the Dune Desert to get these three pure sulfur nodes... most likely making some compacted coal before I even ship them back

[fierce ruin]

uranium wont be so bad

now with update 4

[vast jungle]

I am still unsure how much I will use nuclear... I am very happy with TF at the moment

[river night]

the 3 pure sulfurs in the dunes are definitely worth getting eventually

[fierce ruin]

its still a ?? on what to do with new waste

[river night]

store it like old waste :p

[topaz hedge]

Same, If I can keep up the rate of slug deaths in my world, I should actually be able to use all of the 61200MW I'm generating and I'll have an excuse to build a nuclear setup

[fierce ruin]

which means people will not touch it

[river night]

their loss

[topaz hedge]

Otherwise, this will be another playthrough for me where I won't touch nuclear, but fingers crossed

[fierce ruin]

why

thier losd

[river night]

because its powerful and fun? 🙂

[topaz hedge]

It's a new kinda factory to build. nothing wrong with that.

[fierce ruin]

cause people dont want deal with waste

[river night]

most people that say that likely never even tried

[fierce ruin]

good lord

[topaz hedge]

<--- hasen't tried

[fierce ruin]

people dont want to deal with havimg to build a place to deal with it

[vast jungle]

I have no real reason to go nuclear currently, I am still using ~ 10 GW of power... thats easy to do with TF... even double it would be doable.
But if Tier 8 has lots of power hungry stuff, I might reconsider

[topaz hedge]

kill more slugs (:

[river night]

there is an assumption that the new buildings might use more power

[fierce ruin]

why should we be hamstring into not playing with some stufg cause.we dont want to deal with the waste

[topaz hedge]

I do hope they give the nuclear powerplants a facelift, if anyone's ever looked at one closely... they recycled the ass end from the coal generator on it. and overall i'm kinda disappointed with the way the plants look. the power line connections don't look right even.

The waste however, didn't seem like that big of a deal before. and with the U4 changes, it looks like they produce even less waste, and it should be intresting, recycling spent fuel into new fuel and feeding it back into the system

[fierce ruin]

but there is the new waste though

[topaz hedge]

yes but in the teaser they showed a bunch of regular waste turning into just a little bit of the new waste

[fierce ruin]

that doesnt really adress the issue

[vast jungle]

I think most people believe you will get less waste, but the waste will be even more radioactive

storage space never really was the problem for nuclear waste... because its stack size and ISCs...

[sullen cloud]

You gonna have to balance the number of nuclear plants fed by plutonium and the ones fed by uranium

[topaz hedge]

most people who did nuclear setups before didn't really seem to complain about waste. so idk.

[river night]

i for one am happy that they didnt take the waste out entirely, it makes nuclear require actual considerations, instead of just being the next thing you build without any changes

[fierce ruin]

....

then they still hsvent adresded the issue

[sullen cloud]

the big questions remains, is there anything what one can do with the plutonium waste except just storing it

[river night]

in fact they dont think its an issue

[topaz hedge]

Idk, as far as balancing it with recycled fuel and new fuel. I was kinda of thinking that might be the first use for a sushi belt in the game

[river night]

its you who does that 😄

[fierce ruin]

umm.

good lord...

they bloody know

[river night]

and yet they didnt remove it, they must not agree with you, did that ever occur to you

[fierce ruin]

dude knock it off

[vast jungle]

there might be a trick to get waste-free nuclear tech... but we will have to wait for the details in U4

[fierce ruin]

you act like it doesnt matter what people who wants nothing to do with that waste

think

[sand garnet]

getting riled up based on assumptions doesnt help anyone

[vast jungle]

for the game designers all power techs have tradeoffs... removing the waste completely would be against this principle... so I don't think the waste will EVER go away completely

[river night]

i'm sure there is people that dont want to deal with pipes

[sand garnet]

why not just wait until U4 releases and then talk about it

[river night]

but escalating complexity is what keeps a game fresh

[fierce ruin]

the hell nev

sigh

[sand garnet]

I think we're experiencing what I'd now want to name 'close to home syndrome' lol
it's where with sports, when you've ran or cycled etc a long distance, and you're almost home, you'll exponentially be more aware of the fatigue etc, specifically because you know how close you are to your home

[topaz hedge]

Well it's a good thing they don't lock us all into a room together.

[vast jungle]

locking all SF fans into a room would be worrisome, even without Covid-19

[fierce ruin]

tom that kinds beside the point he badicly saying thst our thoughtd a meaning like who cares..

[sand garnet]

what i mean is that people are getting really passionate in this debate now that U4 is really close

[fierce ruin]

what the devs end up doing is how things will be

but that still doesnt change that there are more or less a lot of players there that want nothing to do with it

the waste

[sand garnet]

sure, but it's not the game of the players

this also applies to factory defense and blueprint systems

as much as players may not like it, in the end the devs decide what they implement

[fierce ruin]

differrnt thing altogethet

[sand garnet]

still the same

[fierce ruin]

not really

[sand garnet]

players dont like feature X or want it to be different

devs have a reason for not implementing what the players want

sure, players may not agree with their reasoning, but it's valid nonetheless

[vast jungle]

Its a different thing for each player... but from a viewpoint far away its very similar...

[sand garnet]

best to just wait until U4 releases to find out what the devs' new stance on this is

[fierce ruin]

waste is also reason they wont do anything with doggos

[vast jungle]

"not enough tools to build big mixed main busses" is another one of these similar "feature X" things

[fierce ruin]

they being us

[sand garnet]

so far, waste has been in the game to prevent nuclear from being even more OP than it already is

[topaz hedge]

Maybe they just gave us too many choices with how we can do things? Tom has his way of factory building and the alts he likes, I have mine and you have yours. If it works who's to say what's right or wrong?

[sand garnet]

so time will tell if they've been able to figure out another way to balance it due to added complexity, or if they figured the waste being a balancing mechanic is good as it is

[fierce ruin]

why punish some players out of content cause of a item

[sand garnet]

how are you being punished

[river night]

players decide to not use it, there is no punishment, a nuclear storage facility isnt really that special of a build

[fierce ruin]

there are ways to desl with the nee waste with out elimiting it

[topaz hedge]

I don't think they feel punished, I feel like they're given a choice, and it's up to the player to decide how they want to play

[fierce ruin]

reprocess pw into new p-rods

[sand garnet]

im a bit confused

how are you being punished in the game

[fierce ruin]

doggos give you nw

[topaz hedge]

I get what you're saying though Sounder, the idea of my waste storage filling up after 1k hours or so bothers me too

[sand garnet]

right, doggos giving waste is a bit meh

[vast jungle]

and doggos give you infinite slugs... there are a lot of slugs in the world you can get without doggos

[sand garnet]

I feel like a good change for that would be to make it so they give you uranium ore or pellets

and then also reduce the amount of slugs you get from them to balance it

[river night]

giving uranium would be a good balance change, still dangerous but you can deal with it

[vast jungle]

you can just remove uranium from your inventory, right? Which would make giving it by doggos pointless

[sand garnet]

it will still scare the player

[fierce ruin]

the idea of an item just sitting there doing nothing

[topaz hedge]

Or kill them lol

[river night]

if you have no protection, even a tiny bit of uranium will do damage fast if you dont pay attention

[sand garnet]

make it a full stack so it does a lot of damage

[topaz hedge]

Damn Tom.. that's a little harsh

[vast jungle]

hmm... can you kill the doggo with the nuclear waste and then re-capture it when it respawns?

[sand garnet]

yes you can

3 ingame days respawn time

so 150 mins

[vast jungle]

so not a real problem if you want both "infinite slugs" and "no waste"

[sand garnet]

yup

[river night]

just have to remember which doggo came from where 😄

[fierce ruin]

all i want is s way to where its a usable item and just not sitting there doing nothing

[sand garnet]

doggos are pretty OP though

without a risk to them, there's no way anyone would go out exploring for slugs anymore

[river night]

i usually just collect slugs while harddrive hunting, those tend to last me a while with only OCing miners and extractors

[fierce ruin]

msybe theres a use with pw

[vast jungle]

I always get distracted when building a new factory... "Oh, a slug I didn't see easlier"

[fierce ruin]

nsybe its in future content to happen later

[vast jungle]

the funniest thing is it happens multiple times when you slowly add floors to a factory... because some slugs are just hidden from vision if you are below them

[fierce ruin]

cleary in teaser they left vague on what to do with it

if it was nothing but store it snd forget it

wouldnt they said as much?

[vast jungle]

not necessarily, because they know "nuclear waste" is a hot topic

[fierce ruin]

<@&370483737957236737> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC1QZ0h4oco

[vast jungle]

@fierce ruin just a little advise... don't ping Community Managers of Coffeestainers unnecessary...

[fierce ruin]

They can probably tell me that without your "help" @vast jungle btw.: it's spelled "advice"

[devout elbow]

My mk 1 turbine says overpressure

Idk what to do

[mental garden]

jeez could yuo imagine the lag if every single item on conveyors had individual calculating physics

[lament heath]

How would you like 0.1fps? 😄

[wooden pond]

ah yes, the game is already so CPU heavy lets make it calculate live physics

[lament heath]

Just throw the physics calculation on the gpu 👀

[wooden pond]

sm0rt

[fierce ruin]

well...the release is still far ahead, maybe the CPU/GPU performance will get accordingly better, so it might be an option some time in the future...

[wooden pond]

what surprises me the most is how many people think there GPU is the issue and then when they lower there quallity only 3 fps comes

[wooden pond]

it will likely never happen or even come to there minds to do it

[lament heath]

I doubt it honestly

[river night]

you really dont want phyiscally correct conveyors in such a game, now items will fall off and pile up in corners? no thank you 😄

[mental garden]

you underestimate how incredibly optimised satisfactory is

[wooden pond]

it's such a bad idea to make every item physics based, it's not as simple as you think

[mental garden]

considering what you can see happening at once

[lament heath]

Tho you could abuse the physics to make fun stuffs happen 😄

[mental garden]

plus mark 5 conveyors would be launching stuff to the moon

[lament heath]

Nuclear waste? Just dump it in the ocean

[fierce ruin]

i never said it's simple, it's just something that COULD be done at some point. and by me posting that video, it will surely cross devs' minds

[mental garden]

wouldn't need the delivery rocket, just point a ramp skywards

[wooden pond]

Im pretty sure they thought about that before spending 4 years working on belts

Game is already so ram and cpu heavy, no amount of optimisations will make PHYSICS on belts better. it's just a stupid idea to make every item physics based

[lament heath]

Physics simulations are too expensive to be ran at this scale to be honest. Even when everything is boxes. 😐

Or even with a simpler shape, spheres

[wooden pond]

just because that demo showed the game at 60fps or whatever, doesn't mean it will be the same when people have 10000s of belts

[river night]

spheres would be even worse, they roll of conveyors! 😄

[fierce ruin]

i realise it's not possible atm, but in the future, when hardware gets better... 10 years ago nobody dared to think about the kind of details games are capable of showing today

[wooden pond]

Sure

[river night]

the real question is, does that improve gameplay if stuff can move and fall off? because i'm not sold on that 🙂

[fierce ruin]

for me it would yes

[river night]

its just a very different game concept then

[wooden pond]

it's not like we are currently hitting a performance limit on cpus and gpus

Moore's law is dead

[lament heath]

What I mean by that is that spheres are the easiest shapes to compute collisions for physics engine (if memory serves me right) 😆 But yeah, that wouldn't be very practical

[mental garden]

brb time to go break into nasa

[wooden pond]

the ram usage tho xD

[lament heath]

Blah, just get more ram 😄

[wind spade]

download more ram

[wooden pond]

https://downloadmoreram.com/

[fierce ruin]

that's a scam. for only 0.01BTC i can email more RAM to you

[wooden pond]

Just because hardware can get better in the future doesn't justify it as an excuse for a game to be laggy. Not everyone is going to upgrade to amazing pcs or whatever

[mental garden]

what you do is you get a potato and shove it in the ram slots on your mobo

it's the activision way

[fierce ruin]

by better hardware i kinda implied there wouldn't be as much lag...just saying...

[wooden pond]

not to mention the amount of computing power to simulate ALL belts with physics would be insane

[wooden pond]

better hardware doesn't mean less lag. at the end of the day it all comes down to the software

[fierce ruin]

and software uses hardware resources...so yeah, it does mean less lag

[wind spade]

#off-topic-tech guys

[wooden pond]

So if i lets say try to simulate earth then i upgrade to a 6000 core cpu but then decide to simulate the entire universe does that mean the software will run better?

[fierce ruin]

with enough hardware resources yes

[wooden pond]

still doesn't justify a game to be ignored for optimisations/add whatever laggy feature the devs want and when people complain about lag the devs response is only "get better hardware"

[fierce ruin]

also should be noted that software adapts to new hardware by updating it, so it can use those resources better

ah..pointless debate i see, have a good day

[tardy horizon]

am i right? 6 fuel rods per minute for 30 nuclear power plants?

[wind spade]

yes

[tardy horizon]

Damn thats crazy

[cedar basin]

yo @wind spade does your calculator always prioritise alternate recipe?

[wind spade]

no

it calculates for most resource-efficient path

[fierce ruin]

it really likes oil

[wind spade]

if you tick the box that you have a certain recipe, you only say "I can use this", but the tool decides by itself whether or not it's actually good

[wind spade]

you can always just disable oil in raw resource list, but technically they are super resource efficient

[cedar basin]

that wasnt clear

[vast jungle]

you can also unselect default recipes to force a specific path

[wind spade]

that as well

[fierce ruin]

I always do thanks for that

[wind spade]

there's a lot of options that user can choose

[cedar basin]

but it just seems like it always takes alternates

[wind spade]

well most of the alternate recipes are way better than normal recipes

(again, regarding resource efficiency)

[cedar basin]

have you considered adding other graph sorting methods?

[wind spade]

wdym graph sorting?

[fierce ruin]

make it 3d lol

[wind spade]

no thx xD

[cedar basin]

*graph layout

[wind spade]

yeah, what about that?

[cedar basin]

an organic layout is neat and all

but orthogonal is just easier to look at

[river night]

you can drag stuff around and re-sort it if you need to for clarity, just in case that wasnt clear 🙂

[cedar basin]

i know

[fierce ruin]

how does one sort it then

[wind spade]

Also all arows go through each other and you have to move it anyway

[cedar basin]

it just isnt the focus of a calculator to have a full graphing app built in

[wind spade]

yeah. Current implementation tries to place them to minimize crossing arrows

[frosty owl]

What happened, did someone not read the pins again?

[fierce ruin]

it's an inside joke

[wind spade]

a lot of people added update release time to their nick

since there's a "is it out?" message every 5 minutes

so I just wanted to be different 😄

(it's pinned in #satisfactory )

[frosty owl]

Ah, I thought it was related to the tool since it's you 😅

[daring sonnet]

did anyone ever build a turbo plant with more than 1 oil node? do you have reasons to or not to do it?

maybe overkill?

[wind spade]

all depends on what's the amount of power you need 🤷‍♂️

there's a lot of bases that have use way more power than what you can get out of one node

[fierce ruin]

it's not overkill in the endgame

but rn I'm 7k out of 44k off one node

But I don't make anything

Since I've been doing infrastructure in prep

[daring sonnet]

how do you make 44k from one node? I thought 22K~ was the most a node could generate

[wind spade]

yeah

[fierce ruin]

IDK

[vast jungle]

pure oil node at 250% should be more than 22k

right?

[fierce ruin]

it might be fake capacity

it's been so long

[vast jungle]

225 oil is 16.5 GW

[daring sonnet]

I asked because TheRSO said he did 44K from one node

[vast jungle]

so 600 oil 44GW sounds okay

[fierce ruin]

that or I sure wasted a lot of time

[daring sonnet]

can we already get 600 from one node? with mk2 stuff?

[vast jungle]

most likely 22GW was with MK1 pipes

240 m^2 pure oil at 100%... should be 600 at 250%

[daring sonnet]

oh, neat

I'll probably go for it then, thanks for the inputs

[vast jungle]

nearly 300 generators? WOW...

[fierce ruin]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=IUhDq4bUCpsfwMVokM7v

296 and some odd

[vast jungle]

1070 sulfur is not easy to get

[fierce ruin]

no it is not

[daring sonnet]

I thought it was about 90 generators actually

[vast jungle]

150 MW per generator

45 GW would be 300 generators

[fierce ruin]

4.5 TF/min

[vast jungle]

450 Turbofuel looks like a nice number to produce... easy to scale up too

and everything below belt/pipe limit

[fierce ruin]

not really packed water takes alot

jeez so messy

[vast jungle]

9 packager/unpackager for 450 Turbofuel... that not much

[fierce ruin]

yeah I made this at 480 belts

[vast jungle]

you don't need to merge the package/unpackage belts anyways

[fierce ruin]

I'll just have to make a new one since I built this a awhile ago in a cruddy spot

[frosty owl]

Do any of you feed packaging loops with actual canisters PRODUCTION? ^^

[vast jungle]

why should you?

just drop in 100 per loop and forget about them

[fierce ruin]

I did cuz I'm dumb

and it jammed lol

[frosty owl]

Then manifolding the canister belt can be pretty convenient :P

[vast jungle]

I have to build a second (TF powerplant) one soon... West Coast, I am coming for you... except that I need import compacted coal from the Dune Desert

[vast jungle]

no, this easily imbalance the loops

[frosty owl]

Just add in a storage, fill it with how much you need and don't worry about putting stuff into tens of machines :P

[vast jungle]

each loop can store more than 600 canisters (3x 100 input buffer + 3x 100 output buffer + belts)

[frosty owl]

You just need to stay over 300 to be sure it works fine ^^

[vast jungle]

not sure about this... I fear the manifold would make trouble in this case

[frosty owl]

Worked fine to me 😁

[wind spade]

only acceptable way of building diluted packaged fuel is in 1:1:1 modules with canisters looping only in that module 😄

[frosty owl]

Why have tens of modules rather then one?

[vast jungle]

less belts, less splitters, less mergers, less containers... same performance

[frosty owl]

More loading time as far as I'm concerned too :P

Also, less belts?
That's debatable :hehe:

Eg: depending on how you set the loop, one belt connecting the water to the fuel packagers can be less then many connecting them

Example: fill 1 storage Vs fill tens of machines. Storage please! (Storage below the pipe, CENTRE of the picture)
Also a good way to evaluate the efficiency of the whole setup by looking at the merged belts ;)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553550313533997057/813849817696305162/Screenshot20210223-00222800000.png

[wind spade]

fill 1 storage with 2k+ canisters vs fill 10 machines with 20 canisters each 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

If you have an ISC full of canisters, transferring that to another ISC is WAY quicker then: taking stacks, dividing them 5 times, put them in each machine....
You'd know if you try (splitting stacks is quite inconvenient, IMO, unless you di by halves)

[wind spade]

well you can also just put stack into each

or whatever

[frosty owl]

Still takes more then transferring stuff to a single container

[wind spade]

but the point is that with dedicated lines per module, you don't risk stuff failing because you didn't put enough canisters in the system

[frosty owl]

Also easy to feed if you ever say: I wanna actually feed it with production. How I used to do once (part of the packaged fuel went away to storage for use, thus needing to refill the containers)

[vast jungle]

the problem with feeding it from production is that I worry about clogging the loops with empty containers

unless you Sink the containers at the end of the loop 😉

[fierce ruin]

😓

[frosty owl]

Just feed in as much as you take out ;)
Though, I ended up having a double storage since I took out quite random amounts for... Reasons 😅😂

[vast jungle]

you could maybe do a priority balancer between the rotating containers and the new ones

[frosty owl]

Oh no, now I remember what I did!
Since I had a smart storage connected to sinks, I just sent the overflow from canisters WITH the packaged fuel to storage :rolljace:

[oblique hollow]

oh look, that seems familiar

[frosty owl]

Building in creative, not many of my setups are running 😅 (performance 🤷‍♂️ )

[manic oak]

@vast jungle I used to prefer the solid steel recipe as well, but then someone pointed out that there's just too much iron on the map to care about using it efficiently. Instead, I found it better to compare how much of the other resource you'll have to bring in. The ratios for both recipes are:

• Pure Iron Ingot -> Solid Steel Ingot: 1.857 Coal:Iron Ore
• Heavy Oil Residue -> Petroleum Coke -> Coke Steel Ingot: 0.25 Oil:Iron Ore
  As you can see, you need significantly less oil for each iron ore, so if you're worried about using up too much oil, don't be. A couple of normal nodes and a pure node lying on the ground can get you up to 6000 steel ingots/min. You also have the benefit of having plastic and rubber right at your doorstep to make iron plates and reinforced iron plates after using the Polymer Resin to make plastic and rubber

[iron prairie]

Solid steel isn't so much about efficient use of iron. It's about efficient use of coal... and there's other priorities for your crude oil.

Each petrocoke spent on steel this way is worth 2/3 of a unit of plastic, rubber, or fuel. Coal, meanwhile, is still fairly common, and its only large-scale uses are steel or power.

Also, on a very belated note for the turbofuel production, my experience from building a 4000 turbofuel/min plant was:

First floor at sea level was sufficient to contain all the water extraction, packaging, and residual rubber.
Second floor handled the HOR and DPF steps.
Floors 3-6 handled fairly densely packed fuel generators.
Floor 7 handled unpackaging of fuel and the turbofuel refineries.

Everything except floors 3-6 had plenty of empty space.

[iron prairie]

I finished doing the math. I checked two ways to use 45 iron ore, 40 coal, and 15 heavy oil residue.

Using regular iron smelters, solid steel and the DPF -> fuel generator path, you get 60 steel, 5 leftover iron ore, and +14920 MJ of power (30 fuel, minus processing losses).

Using coke steel and burning the coal for power, you get the same 60 steel and +9429 MJ of power.

One can use up to ~3000 coal/min on bauxite refinement, a token amount on gas filters + black powder, 3200* on turbofuel, and then you're left with well over 20000 coal/min for either power or steel.

The above math demonstrates that it's more efficient to spend coal on steel and oil on power than the other way around.

*Making more than 3200 compacted coal/min starts to infringe on sulfur needed for max nuclear power

[manic oak]

I agree that, mathematically, you'll get more out of using coal on steel. However, I also don't feel like building enough train lines to gather enough coal into one spot to make a large amount of steel, as rarely (if ever) is there enough coal in one spot to make full use of all the nearby iron nodes. There's plenty of oil on the map, so you aren't giving up that much by sacrificing a couple of nodes for steel production, while simultaneously eliminating the need to have import train lines running to your steel factory to supply plastic/rubber/coal.

It's fine if you're only making a small amount of steel and only want to use up your nearby coal. However, if you're planning to make a large amount of steel to supply late game factories, it's easier (though slightly less resource efficient) to use a couple of pure oil nodes as it reduces complexity

[iron prairie]

I have no idea why this is better.

You can either import oil or coal to the megafactory: either way, you're importing stuff. Sure, coal's a little more spread out, but... here's the thing. Iron is also pretty spread out.

You could solve the iron problem by having octabajillion train lines... but most coal nodes outside the Red Forest have a decent amount of iron nearby anyways. You can just turn the iron+coal into solid steel at subsites, and send the solid steel ingots to your megafactory using the same octabajillion train lines that you'd use for iron anyways.

[manic oak]

Actually, there's a nice spot just East of the Pink Forest that has some random oil nodes lying around. Combine that with Iron Ore and Limestone from the North Forest Spawn, which is nearby, and close enough to just use conveyor belt instead of trains

[iron prairie]

And ~700 meters east of that, there's a spot with 3x pure + 1x normal coal, plus 3x pure iron nodes. Enough for 4410 solid steel/min: I should know, because I built a foundry there (using pure iron ingot, which I regret, and shall never make the mistake of using again).

EDITS: 1) Corrected the solid steel output, and deleted a needlessly confrontational bit of the message.

[oblique hollow]

@sand garnet no priority switch :c

[sand garnet]

yeah what's up with that

[iron prairie]

For the deleted bit (which I assume you saw Count): I apologize.

[manic oak]

@iron prairie My point is that using two pure oil nodes and the 6 pure iron ore from the north forest, you can make 6,400 solid steel ingots/min, while gaining enough plastic and rubber as a byproduct to make about 60 Heavy Modular Frames/min. Now, I haven't played much in the late game yet, so I don't really know what a good target of HMF/min is, but if you wanted to hit that target with your foundry you'd have to bring in more coal. Ultimately, if you're looking to use up every resource node on the map as efficiently as possible, I would agree the best bet is to bring all the coal together and use it for solid steel (with some set aside for Bauxite). However, if you're just looking for a good steel factory that requires minimal inputs, you're not giving up that much by using two pure oil nodes and a bunch of iron ore, and you wind up making a good amount of a late game item, which means you might not even need to expand your steel production further.

I did see it, thank you for removing it xD

[iron prairie]

I sort of see the point about imports complexity, but I'd argue there's enough spots with good coal+iron to make that mostly moot... and I'm not as afraid to build train lines.

[manic oak]

I'm not afraid to build train lines either, but I'm trying to make all my factories look nice, and having to make lots of room for train stations is really annoying xD

[naive ingot]

Can anyone tell me the new default Supercomputer recipe?

I keep seeing alt SC recipes in screenshots, but no word on the default.

[naive ingot]

Thanks!

Wait, so the default hasn't changed, they just added alts?

[wind spade]

indeed

[naive ingot]

So my SC factory is safe, but holy crap those alts are juicy.

[bleak coral]

oh you've already updated? cool

[wind spade]

it's not live