math-and-meta

[weak elk]

copy

that method is good for getting stuff from miner to a collection point

[wind spade]

(a lot of streamers unfortunately call them that way and that leads to big confusion)

[weak elk]

yeah

[wind spade]

(if you played factorio, this is how main bus usually looks: https://wiki.factorio.com/File:Main_bus.jpg)

[weak elk]

love the explorer they can climb any wall just expensive but worth it.no need to make roads.those trucks cant climb for stuff

[versed violet]

is this radiation calculator valid for U3? https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/radiation
Trying to find out how much clearance I need for a wagon full of uranium, so it doesn't kill bystanders.

[sand garnet]

yes

radiation hasnt changed

[toxic cipher]

ooof Radiation hurts

[versed violet]

75m to be safe? OUCH

So I would need a train with locmotive, 5 empty wagons and uranium box at end so ride without taking damage?

[tawdry pebble]

if i remember while riding in a loco you do not take radiation damage since your body is not exposed? or visible.

[versed violet]

possibly, but still would like to embark without burning

could use a "lead-lined walls" mod

[fierce ruin]

can someone tell me how I can have 2.4 assemblers

[versed violet]

build 3, downclock last one to 40%

or overclock one to 140 and build only two

or build 3 assemblers clocked to 80% (bes power usage)

possibilities are endless*!

[* we can only set % in 1 unit increment, so they are not, but still we have many]

[sinful vale]

best power usage would be 240 at 1% each

[fierce ruin]

how does 2 at 120 sound

[sinful vale]

not 100% power efficient but close enough, potato seal of approval

[fierce ruin]

I don't care too much about power efficiency because thats just another thing to worry about

I would rather just build more generators

[sinful vale]

there really ain't that big a difference with the logistics between having 2 at 120 or 3 at 240, and you would get more power, only situation in which i would say you can safely dismiss higher clockspeeds is in the endgame with a big enough doggo farm, when you have more power than you really need

[versed violet]

3 at 80 is best power usage while staying with 3 machines required.

I personally remommend to have 2 at 100% and downclock last one to 40. easier to change later than mess with every machine

[icy pumice]

which one should I choose? 🤔

im already making like 10 motors per minute

so ig the motor one isnt that good for me

[vast jungle]

crystal oscilators are awful...

[icy pumice]

Yes, totally

[vast jungle]

and sulfur is one of the rarest resources... so using less for nobelisk is a good thing

[icy pumice]

well than ill do so

thank u 😄

[wintry aurora]

Seismic nobelisk has to be one of the worst recipes, increased complexity for very little actual benefit.

[fierce ruin]

same with iron-oil recipes

[wind spade]

You don't need too much sulfur anyway tho

[fierce ruin]

laughs in turbo fuel

[wind spade]

nuclear ftw

[vast jungle]

xxxError,nuclear-waste-reaction-not-foundxxx

[manic oak]

You might be making 10 Motors/Min, but that's at the cost of 20 rotors and 20 stators per minute. That drops to 10 each per minute and 3.33 crystal oscillators/min with recipe 3. Plus, you don't really need to mass produce nobelisks, you just need to make like 50 when you go out exploring.

[wind spade]

still the recipe is crap, why add oil and quartz products to iron-only production line

most resource efficient production would be this https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=yfJ6774ZvfkBSXYbFBQI

[manic oak]

Because it significantly reduces your iron consumption

[wind spade]

you have 70k iron on the map, I doubt you'll ever reach that limit

[vast jungle]

thats why "Copper Alloy" is great... you never really have "not enough iron"

[bleak coral]

you have to save absolutely massive amounts of iron for relatively little of other resources to make the tradeoff worth it, and even then it may not be worth it because more iron for less complexity is a good tradeoff

for example steel coated plates technically can be more resource efficient with the right recipes, in particular diluted fuel and recycled recipes, but the added complexity is a tall order even to cut the iron usage in half (or something, don't remember the exact numbers)

[iron prairie]

So, for the coated plates, I get the following data:

Coated Iron Plate: 0.67 iron/plate, 0.133 plastic/plate, 12 MJ/plate
Steel Coated Plate: 0.167 iron/plate, 0.167 coal/plate, 0.11 plastic/plate, 20 MJ/plate
Steel Coated Plate (w/ solid steel): 0.11 iron/plate, 0.11 coal/plate, 0.11 plastic/plate, 20 MJ/plate```

For perspective, the map can support a maximum production of 29700 plastic/min (using the HOR->DPF->recycled plastic/rubber alts), versus 130706 iron ingots/min (using pure iron).

Technically, you could squeeze out a bit more iron ingots by using the iron alloy alt, but there are other uses for copper ore.

[bleak coral]

you can also squeeze out more by using pure as well, but that should affect all those setups equally so it doesn't really matter for comparison

but yeah you can see the big savings, and with both recycled recipes + diluted fuel that 0.11 plastic can be made from 0.04 crude

but that's the kicker, you have to set up the complicated recycled double loop to make it worth it because there's just so much more iron

even with a saving of iron of ~90%

it's probably worth it if you're the kind of person who sets up big factories of individual resources then redirects where needed, so you already have some spare plastic ready to go

but I can't see setting it up new when you need some iron plates

[fierce ruin]

what clockspeed to I set a constructor to make screws take 15 iron rods instead of 10

nvmd im big dumb i found it out

[wind spade]

build two and set the second one to 50%

@fierce ruin

[fierce ruin]

I already have 16

and i just overclocked all of them anyways to 150 i dont really care about power consumption

[wind spade]

machines use way more power when overclocked. It's usually better to underclock to save some power (and in turn resources that were used to make the power)

you could also build 24 of them with no overclocking 🤷‍♂️

[silent storm]

Is it better to have machine speed above input or below if you can't get it exact. Blue Lines - Exact | Red Lines - Overcut | Orange Lines | Undercut

[versed violet]

If you can sink the excess, let machine run slower and it will be 100% efficient.

[silent storm]

wont it not be 100% though because there will be time inbetween actions while it waits for the material?

[versed violet]

if you let the input be higher than machine speed, no

[silent storm]

how would i even redirect to a sink

the difference between the red and orange is 1%

[versed violet]

smart splitter on input. whatever machine doesnt eat, will land in sink

with less than 1% difference it will take several minutes before you see first item pushed to sink

[topaz hedge]

how do you cheap silica and silicone circuitboards?

[fierce ruin]

Tested with one miner with an output of 300/min

and three machines with 100,35/min each

after some minutes, one of the constructors only have 99% efficency

two 100%

[topaz hedge]

so you're producing 300 a min and you're using 301.05? Yup looks right to me

[fierce ruin]

yes, a little more production than the input, preceding productions don´t stop

[wind spade]

@fierce ruin imo it's better to have machines clocked slightly higher. So if you need e.g. 73.2% on a machine, you clock it to 74%. It'll stop once every few hours for a few seconds, but you'll get 100% output and you don't have to use any sink

[icy pumice]

how can I build a 1/4 - 3/4 splitter?

[vast jungle]

just split in 2, then in 2 again... and merge 3

[icy pumice]

oh

yea true thanks 😄

[magic shadow]

  /----->
  S--\
  |  |
--S--M---->

[vast jungle]

(you need only 2 splitters... merge 1/2 with 1/4)

[magic shadow]

o right

there we go

[wind spade]

if you split that between two machines, you can also just split it using one splitter and let it balance itself

[versed violet]

Trivia question: How many hard drives are accessible without needing hazmat suit?
Or in reverse, how many HDD are denied by radiation?

[mystic moon]

Depends on how many times you are willing to die

[dull bolt]

at least one.

[versed violet]

My first and only playthrough has no deaths yet.
[it does have several reloads though]

[sand epoch]

reload is death.. lol

[versed violet]

You do not start in hub with only underpants, so I consider it 'not dead'

[jade minnow]

Reincarnation

[versed violet]

I prefer time travel tbh. Cuts down on having to walk back to place so lethal it killed you.

[wind spade]

I'd say all of them should be collectable without hazmat suit

[feral summit]

I think there are two in the middle of uranium

But I think you can just nut through it

[jade minnow]

I never use hazmat suit lol. Approach the hard drive or slug or whatever from a foundation from above, build a ladder beside the item, loot and quickly climb up. You lose like 3 HP bars

You can also do that in poison gas but you will lose hp quicker

[vast jungle]

Poison/Radioactivity and Spitters together are not fun

especially before you get the rifle

[jade minnow]

Nobelisk or rebar gun

[vast jungle]

yes... still, not being able to get close without taking damage makes it a lot harder to deal with these guys

[shy mason]

Going to go round up the swamp and red forest hard drives, I'd imagine a hundred nobelisks and 6 hundred rifle cartridges would be enough.

[uneven onyx]

You want to err on the side of the machine NOT stopping..as there's some delay when it restarts

[bleak coral]

I'm pretty sure that's only when it first powers up, not when it starts again after going into standby

if you go under you're gonna underfeed the next part, or have to turn that one down too. better to just spend the extra power and have the manufacturing capability so you're actually making as much as you intend to

[jade minnow]

If the machine has slightly less input than it can consume there is a delay that will let it pause for a moment. But after some time it will catch up so it will still be 100% efficient, even though the game tells you something else in the UI

[bleak coral]

the efficiency meter on the machines is a measurement of uptime, and it's not wrong that it's not 100% efficient because it will consume more power on average than if it was properly clocked. But you don't have a choice if the ppm you need isn't doable by integer clockspeeds, and realistically it's a very small power inefficiency

[jade minnow]

Yeah that should just happen if you need to underclock a machine to a decimal number, so just round up to the next %

[versed violet]

What are the options for moving player against their will, except applied gravity? Jump pads?

[sand garnet]

interactive map

it depends, is the character from a logged off player? or just afk?

[sinful vale]

the zappy stick has knockback, just leave them rest a few secs after a couple of hits so they heal up

[shy mason]

Could knock them Into a hyper tube entrance. Hitting them with a truck would also work if he's moving.

[versed violet]

I'm planning on a 'fun trap' that launches player from 'complaint management booth' into local nuclear waste storage.

[deep root]

Hyper tubes

I guess they can turn around though

[versed violet]

yes, the option with no escape is preferred.
Jump pad they can just navigate away from next hop I guess?

[deep root]

Could use hyper cannon... A little more difficult to get away from maybe

[sand garnet]

if character is logged off, build hypertube cannon

so that once he logs on, he instantly gets sucked in

[versed violet]

oh, hypercannon would work I guess. Not much time to react

[deep root]

The more entrances there are the less time to react

[versed violet]

and a jump pad right behind door

[deep root]

I've built a few hyper cannons with no space between the entrances, so I can fit more in less space than other models

[versed violet]

Opinion based: Need to divide out exactly 22,5 coal for my nuclear plant train use. Any 'smart' ways of getting that?
Other option: use solid steel recipe, then I have exact 20 units ratio 😅

[jolly silo]

say, if i have one miner mk1, into how many furnaces would i need to lead it to smelt everything as fast as possible?

much obliged

[sand garnet]

it depends on the node purity and your belt capacity

mk1 belt only has 60 items per minute

[jolly silo]

say impute node, mk1 belt because im poor

[sand garnet]

so thats only enough for 2, assuming you have a node that provides it

mk1 on impure = 30 per min I think

check the miner UI, it tells you

[jolly silo]

alright nice thanks for the tip, i have a lot of backlog in my iron to rotor and reinforced plates setup

working on a second floor for steel production

[silent storm]

Im so confused. Im pumping 480 iron and coal into 8 foundries at 60 per foundry. They say they are making 60.3 steel/m. which doesn't make sense but im going to assume they are making 60/m each so a total of 480/m out. 2x26.1/m is going to pipes, 4*106.8/m going to beams. which totals only 479.4/m. But 3 of my 4 beam constructors is running at only 84%

[jolly silo]

hmmm yes

[fierce ruin]

Use two Mk1 Belts (60/min each) one split 1/2 two times and one 1/2 three times.

60/2/2 =15 60/2/2/2= 7,5 15+7,5= 22,5

need full belts of course

[deep root]

Did you check to make sure all of your belts are mk4? Sounds like you have a mk3 somewhere

[silent storm]

i shouldnt need a mk4

i have 4 foundries in 2 groups

the left path needs far less steel than the right so i just overflow the steel to the right

oh wait yea

i think i do need one

thats gonna be a pain

that still didnt fix the problem

it helped alot

but they still arent 100% sadly

[deep root]

Maybe ask modded discord? Link found in #welcome

I notice you have some modded buildings there

[silent storm]

i should be over supplying by 0.3/m but it slowly leaks, ill probably just leave it at 95% and hope its just the wireless item transporters that im using to test everything first before i make it in survival that's causing it

[topaz hedge]

if your math is correct, it's a balancing error, rounding error, or you've got enough shit that your mk4's have slowed down

[true merlin]

if a production machine says 100% efficiency, is it rlly 100% ?

[bleak coral]

It means that it's constantly running with no downtime, so in that sense yes the machine is being used at 100% efficiency. But there's other types of efficiency like power efficiency and resource efficiency that can't be determined just by measuring uptime.

It also doesn't speak to how the rest of the system is doing, just that one machine

[true merlin]

ok

[iron flicker]

is it possible to do a main bus design in satisfactory? I've been trying to think of ways to organize my factory and normally i'd use a main bus but often 1 or 2 buildings takes up an entire belt. What do y'all do to keep the spaghetti away?

[mystic moon]

Put it under the floor

[iron flicker]

oh damn

[mystic moon]

No busses

They get clogged

[iron prairie]

Factorio-style bus designs don't work that great in Satisfactory. Satisfactory has much more issues with belt capacity, and many fewer issues with existing in two dimensions.

[iron flicker]

i see, wb smelting? I generally have a lot of issues tryna plan where to place my smelters

[iron prairie]

Usually I just put down some foundations, put the smelters in a line, and feed them via a manifold setup.

What a (single-sided) input manifold looks like:

        O  O  O  O
        ^  ^  ^  ^
        |  |  |  |
Input-->S->S->S->S

Where S is a splitter, and O is an "output" building using what's coming in from the input belt.```

[bleak coral]

end to end production is generally easier to do in satisfactory, especially since resources are unlimited so you just let stuff keep running forever

like you make stuff specifically for one production line, and that's all it does and then you make more when you create a new production line

you can totally force a BUS if you really want to do it, but it's not that great

[true merlin]

placed my smelters that way for 240 input ( for the first spliter, i use mk1 conveyers )

[hasty nacelle]

Do people typically have discrete lines for each item (1 line for iron rods/plates, 1 area for rotors ect... Both feed into a mall seperately) or share them out (1 line for iron rods, splits into both mall and rotors)?

[nocturne yew]

If anyone could help me, I'd appreciate it highly:

Im doing Oil right now, and my refineries are producing 150m3 of heavy oil residue, which I plan to package and sink, im using 4 Packagers on 125%, and I'm getting confused with how many constructors I need to power those 4, would it be better if I used 5 instead? I chose 4 because its easy to evenly split canisters into.

[frosty owl]

Have you thought about turning the HOR into coke for sinking instead? Sounds simpler then packaging, unless you actually need the packaging for future use too ^^

[nocturne yew]

Well I'm making plastic so uh, im not sure if I can do that

[frosty owl]

Since you need plastic to make canisters, you wouldn't need any plastic for the canisters ^^

[nocturne yew]

What I intended to do was saturate the packaging process with plastic for the canisters, which would run through a smart splitter, sending any overflow, which would be probably most of the plastic I produce, off to storage. That way the constructors making canisters will always have plastic to use, with no overflow

I'm not sure if thats viable, I'm still kind of new to this sorta stuff and it's difficult for me to effectively make a factory that's not garbo

[frosty owl]

It would work 👍

[nocturne yew]

at 200 plastic per minute, I think I'd be okay

I just wanna get it right first time, as most of the factories I build I end up ripping down because I calculated it wrong

[frosty owl]

My suggestion comes as you could use a lower amount of machines, power and plastic if you turned the HOR into COKE instead and sinked that. But to each his own xD

[nocturne yew]

How would I turn it into coke? with more refineries?

I never even thought to do that. when you first said it I thought you meant, through a packager or something

Man I'm dumb sometimes

[frosty owl]

HOR > coke with refineries > sink
Alternative to: HOR + containers > packaged HOR > sink

[nocturne yew]

your way sounds way better

[frosty owl]

If one doesn't need the packaging, the coke is more convenient usually ;)

[nocturne yew]

Lemme try this out

Kinda sucks that you need power and an input to see the effects of over / underclocking

@frosty owl I appreciate the help, it's greatly appreciated 😁

[frosty owl]

Anytime :)

[tardy horizon]

u mean something like this? https://prnt.sc/10c9o9n

😄

[oblique hollow]

Im starting to think alumina solution isnt really alumina, but aluminate

[sand garnet]

it's aluminot

[oblique hollow]

yes, anything but aluminium oxide

[deep root]

AlumiNUM

[oblique hollow]

AlumiNOPE

[vast jungle]

I will AlumiNEVER believe you!

[deep root]

You don't have to! AlumiJACE said it and showed it on stream

[manic oak]

That was a fake video produced by the Aluminati

[vast jungle]

@manic oak okay, you win...

[deep root]

Don't you mean the Aluminaughty?

[deep bison]

math you say?

[deep root]

The spaghetti is killing me!

[true merlin]

I use this for math

[manic oak]

Legit same

[final spoke]

This is how I do it

[wind spade]

there are some nice tools in pinned post btw 😉

but if you're fine with paper and pen, nothing is stopping you 😛

[final spoke]

shameless self-plug

but I digress, the tools are indeed very nice

[lone wasp]

8+8=15 prove me wrong

[wind spade]

maybe prove that in #off-topic-general and don't spam this channel 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

I'm actually quite glad I left place for a BUS. It's being very convenient for planning, much was simplified

[wind spade]

heresy!

[vast jungle]

"bus" = space for multiple belts... not "bus" = mixed belts

[wind spade]

"bus" = belts carrying resources, which are split for machines and resulting products are merged back onto it

[ashen quest]

honestly i love drawing it on paper

but once you add alternative recipes it becomes a lot XD

[frosty owl]

From "where the hell do I belt this to reach there" now it's just a "just hook it to the BUS and it's fine"
If it doesn't fit on the belt bus, there's always the train bus (aka rails)

Behold a 600 to 576 reducer (stackable design)
Happy balancing noises
@smoky patrol @torpid robin @sinful vale

[vast jungle]

1/25 reducer... nod

[frosty owl]

*1/5 😅
I just split the 120 in 1/5 and sent those 24/min away xD

[vast jungle]

ahh ok... so its "belt filtering + splitter-based-reducer"

[frosty owl]

If the 480+120 splitter is called "belt filter", yes :D

[wind spade]

man don't post balancers in #math-and-meta xD

[vast jungle]

but balancing is about math... especially unbalanced balancers 😉

[wind spade]

but balancing is not meta 🤷‍♂️

and I'm mostly just making fun of the classic "balancers are crap" 😛

[wicked tinsel]

balancers are poor man's solution to lack of priority mergers 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

Manifolds are poor man's solution to lack of balancers

[dull bolt]

Does balancing on one leg count?

[frosty owl]

As long as you don't just manifold your steps afterward

[wind spade]

in which case do you need a priority merger?

[frosty owl]

Thinking about it, priority merging would indeed take away some balancing... But just a minor part of it, I think

[wicked tinsel]

i have few parts makers that are usually idle and they totally consume more resources than provided

being able to supply multiple input belts properly would be nice

also for stuff like package/unpackaged fuel it would make packaged fuel factory much easier

essentially removing the fuel in pipe step

they would also make buses feasible 😄

but for some reason bus is a forbidden word in this community

[wind spade]

buses are not feasible because of fixed mine output

[wicked tinsel]

mine output is irrelevant for buses, no idea where the idea that its the key comes from

also its certainly not fixed either

[wind spade]

busses are used in factorio because you don't have fixed input and fixed output

in satisfactory you have fixed input (miners) and fixed output (no mall)

[wicked tinsel]

this doesnt sound true tbh

satisfactory bus would be about same as factorio one i think

just with less input lanes

[wind spade]

it would be the same, but it would make way less sense

(in terms of efficient building style)

[frosty owl]

Not having played factorio, I don't really get this
Nor do I get why one would need priority mergers to make a BUS

I mean, my bus doesn't have 'em, but it's coming along nicely

[wind spade]

I never said you need prioirty mergers for bus 🤔

nor do I think we need priority mergers in satisfactory

[frosty owl]

I was referring to Amelek's comment about the mergers

[wicked tinsel]

normally you would build bus like this in satisfactory

[frosty owl]

What I didn't understand in your message, Greeny, was the part about variable input making the BUS convenient

[wicked tinsel]

the idea here is that say you return from exploring, you want to continue building

so you grab everything there

[wind spade]

yeah I know how bus works 🙂 but the fact that building from nodes directly instead of putting resources on the bus is just simpler and easier

[wicked tinsel]

and now the overall production requirements might be higher than your current input

but this is ok, no problem there

[frosty owl]

That sounds like the result of bad planning, to me

[wicked tinsel]

say plates sink 50% of your iron input, so you starve engine construction for now

priority mergers go like this, ensuring that the lanes you pull resources from are mostly full

[bleak coral]

It's fine in a game where you can automate buildings and you make a limited amount and stop. And those buildings share a lot of resource types.

In satisfactory we stop before that step because we don't automate buildings, and our resources don't often share intermediaries. So there's not much to share in the first place and sharing production for making components rather than buildings is less efficient.

[wicked tinsel]

yeah but the game constantly expands in size

so your meager tier 1 plates factory might be too small for your tier 3 needs

so the input and output constantly changes

unless you want to end up with spaggetthi or rebuilding everything constantly

[bleak coral]

Not really, it's super easy to get enough ppm for building purposes, and just let it stockpile into a couple ISC

Like 5 to 30ppm for anything except concrete

[wind spade]

in factorio, you don't build buildings out of resources like in satisfactory, you craft them in machines and then just place them using the crafted "building item". So e.g. you craft a belt from iron plate and cogs, making two belts, you can then pick the "belt item" and place it anywhere to make a belt.

for that reason, people usually make "malls" which are just storages for most of the buildings, belts, inserters, etc. and since those have variable production (only produce for a while after you pick the items, they don't produce 100% of time), you have variable output/input. For that reason, you build a bus, put some extra resources on it and connect it to the mall.

In Satisfactory, this doesn't happen. Machines usually produce 100% of the time, since even if it goes to storage, we sink the overflow for tickets. For that reason, we can connect the factory directly to nodes, since we know how much the node outputs (and this won't change, in Factorio it can change with productivity or run out) and produce the final item directly.

[wind spade]

that's why you build another factory later 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

I think having a dedicated space for all belts can be convenient, depending on how you build. A good example can be the "city along a road" kind of design, where the bus is under the road, with production buildings in each side taking/giving items from/to the bus.
That way you still have space around the buildings not filled with belts and stuff

[wind spade]

another thing why busses are kinda bad in satisfactory is that we have super slow belts. SF's fastest belt is still slower than Factorio's fastest belt. So we'll need A LOT of belts to make the bus

[bleak coral]

Yeah but that's different than a main BUS, cause a BUS is a whole logistics style not just a dedicated space for a bunch of belts.

[wind spade]

the thing about "fixed input" is that in your example, you know how much resources each factory takes, and so you can hook that to the correct amount of machines producing those resources instead of merging all the resources just because you want to split them again. Essentially all the problems with bus and your need for priority mergers is caused by you doing the bus, which isn't exactly the best option

[wicked tinsel]

how is the input fixed in this game, are we even playing same game? 😐

[wind spade]

(I really need to finish my reddit post about busses so that I don't always repeat myself)

[frosty owl]

I mean... One of the major reasons for me to have a BUS is actually to have an easier time managing belts while keeping ease of expansion in mind :P
E.g.: you increase plates production? Just upgrade the lines connecting it to the bus or add a couple belts (possibly just adding some poles to already existing stacks) and you can call it a day!

[wicked tinsel]

input constantly changes as you unlock better belts, miners, input recipes

[wind spade]

by fixed input I mean that a given factory always takes the same amount of resources, since it never stops producing

and for that reason you can hook it to a different factory/miner that produce that exact amount of items

instead of using a bus method to merge and then split the resources

(also your example with priority mergers can be easily done with priority splitters (which we have)

[wicked tinsel]

also the mall thing does exist in satisfactory, very similar way to factorio in fact

you get the bunch of slowly produced factory building components

[frosty owl]

I don't wanna get into semantics, but isn't a bus a system to manage all your inputs/outputs in a centralized manner, thus a "collection of belts"? (unless one uses trains too)

[wicked tinsel]

you just dont turn them into final building in factories

[wind spade]

it's a bit similar, but not exactly. You produce items to store, but you overflow them into sink if they are full. In Factorio, there's no sink, so resources just stop flowing

[wicked tinsel]

i like how ultimate solution to lack of logistic features is to shred everything 😄

i dont think we will reach an agreement

[wind spade]

simplified definition of a bus

[wind spade]

it's not that, it's the fact that you want to sink stuff you don't need, thus it's not a solution, but a thing that everybody does anyway (although indeed it solves a few issues)

[frosty owl]

The left side is just the right side when nothing is being put on though 🤣
I mean, really, it's just a collection of belts with mergers and splitters on :man_shrugging:

[wicked tinsel]

here is other thing that would benefit from priority mergers

this is how you would do fuel canister factory for trucks currently

and this is how you would do it with priority merger

much simpler

[wind spade]

well yes, but the left one isn't a bus 🤷‍♂️ because the left thing is "get items from A to B", not "allow factories around the bus to share resources between themselves". First is transportation method, second is more than that

[wind spade]

I would use batteries for trucks 🤷‍♂️ also I wouldn't use automated trucks in the first place. I know it's irrelevant, but the fact that trucks suck kinda solves the issue for me, as I would never need this

[wicked tinsel]

how is this even an argument against priority mergers 😄

[wind spade]

it's not, I said it's irrelevant

[wicked tinsel]

when you only have hammer, everything is a nail, sure

doesnt mean stuff cant be improved

[frosty owl]

Sounds like the bus is a "transportation method" with extra steps 😆
But yeah, I get what the BUS is 👍

[wind spade]

bus' primary goal isn't to transport things from A to B, but to provide access to resources and group them

[frosty owl]

It might just be me, but anytime I build any belt I think "I need to move this from A to B". If it moves along other things moving in the same direction, I save space. If they share the belt, I save even more. Thus the difference from a "collection of belts" and a BUS seem really really little in my eyes

After all, any collection of belts can become a BUS and the other way around, with just some splitters/mergers

[wind spade]

can, but shouldn't be called a bus until they are indeed a bus. And no, adding one merger doesn't make it a bus, it's the context in which it's built

anyway, I'm gonna go write that reddit post I guess xD

[frosty owl]

After all, ALL production goes either: in machines, in sink, in storage. If one's sink is close to the storage, that means most final products have the same end point

[frosty owl]

Sounds like you would save much time

[wind spade]

yeah and if you build a lot of belts just to group items to a sink, it's almost definitely not a bus 🙂

[frosty owl]

But if that beltspace is used by unfinished items too (serving for other production) then it's a bus, right?
Also, anytime your production changes and you need to tap onto one of the lines to increase another production: it's a bus again.
What I mean is: if one makes a huge belt area, it sounds more convenient to me to have that serve as a BUS rather then just as a symple "straight belts from A to B" (unless one wants to just showoff)

[wind spade]

there's no "unfinished item" 🙂 everything can be sunk 😛

[frosty owl]

Check the edit

[wind spade]

still not 100%, the point is if you use the space for transportation or for distribution

[frosty owl]

Just realized it's not like edits are highlighted 🤦‍♂️
I meant "stuff that needs processing"

[frosty owl]

My point is: any collection of belts automatically serves as transportation, but can just as easily serve as distribution. Wether one decides to do so, hardly changes the design of it. Even choosing where to place it wouldn't differ in both scenarios xD

[wind spade]

gonna finish this first I guess (may take a few hours) before going into another deep discussion 😄

wondering if I should include it into my (almost) weekly reddit series xD

[frosty owl]

Don't mind me, even if I ping you can answer a few days later and I'll still remember the subject :D

[frosty owl]

With that title, you're lucky I don't do Reddit, or I'd be REEEEEEEing in the comments immediately

[wind spade]

don't worry, I'll try to be objective at least for most of the post 😄

[frosty owl]

As objective as a player with <10h of experience can be...

[wind spade]

I mean this is mostly theory anyway

[wicked tinsel]

do you build dedicated miners for project assembly stuff too? 😄

[wind spade]

I mean why not? you can always just reuse the miners for something else

or you can just take the items needed for parts and put them to dedicated factory that just makes them and puts them into elevator

[wicked tinsel]

i guess ultimately, its same as in factorio, whenever you prefer bus's neatness and cleanness or just spaghetti everything around 🤷‍♂️

the problem is that due to lacks of features, satisfactory just prefers the later way

and the argument is mostly that you shouldnt do it coz we dont support it

[fierce ruin]

i bought this game to dump nuclear waste into rivers, but no i found a college level algebra class

[frosty owl]

It takes time, but spaghetts can be avoided :P

[wicked tinsel]

the connect everything directly to miners way that greeny prefers seem like ultimate spaghetti to me 😄

bunch of random factories everywhere where resource happen to be and random belts between them

[frosty owl]

Stuff usually work well enough even without math, as long as you build enough power generators that is :)

[wicked tinsel]

the math of this game boils down to division

not exactly college level

[fierce ruin]

oh ya i know lol, the sound when the dam biofuel generators just die

[river night]

you can call everything spaghett if you want to just bash it. for me transporting raw resources over half the map to a central factory is the ultimate spaghett

see what i did there

[frosty owl]

Depends a lot on how one builds. Having many small factories can help not having spaghetts if you plan each one nicely.
On the other hand, bringing everything to you, while maing the bigger scope more complex, it allows you to arrange stuff a bit more conveniently... I think it's just preference ^^

[wind spade]

it's easy:

• figure out next final product you need and how much
• find a good set of nodes that match the production you need
• find a good place near those nodes to build a factory to produce the final product
• connect that factory to your centralised storage via train
• repeat

[frosty owl]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558721941410807812/817033742950203402/Screenshot20210304-00532700000.png
I dare you -.-

[river night]

I should keep a pack of spaghetti nearby and rebuild your layout just for fun images 😄

[frosty owl]

REEEEEEEEEE

[fierce ruin]

i need to learn from these gods

[frosty owl]

Just beware of heresy

[wicked tinsel]

i think the problem with discussion is, you see this from finished-the-game perspective, where you have massive supply of everything, can go everywhere and so on

a lot of this stuff discussed here is useful at the earlier stages of game

[wind spade]

the same approach works early as well

[sinful vale]

i haven't had enough coffee today to process how the belts work, but i will take your word, tho i don't approve of the method it at least looks organised

[wicked tinsel]

early game your production ramps up very fast so the side factories need to be expanded constantly

as you upgrade belts, miners, insert slimes

or find stuff like different steel production

[wind spade]

not really, since with the way I'm suggesting, you never use products from one factory to feed into another factory

[frosty owl]

Wow, that is the closest thing to a compliment I ever heard from you about a balancer!!
I'm flattered :harmonious_hannah:

[river night]

thats just your lack of vision for those factories, i just leave them and build a new one, and maybe much later tear down the old one to rebuild it, or build something else

[frosty owl]

Also, good morning 👋

[fierce ruin]

tbh im playing the creative mod to figure out layouts for my factory

as last time i did it without it, my factory became em noodles and my efficiency went to hell

had to rebuild everything

[frosty owl]

I think a good way to do so is to finish the game normally at least once and check out #screenshots often ^^

[frosty owl]

^ my last 6 saves summarized

[river night]

Like i have this motor factory that ships motors, stators and rotors to my central hub in various quantities. Ultimately all it does is fill a storage bin and overflow into a sink, the only thing I might use it for is project parts. Once I get to turbomotors, I won't connect it to that factory, but build an entirely new one somewhere else

[frosty owl]

THAT I really don't share. I love it when factories are connected by belts and pipes to one another, not just walkways

[river night]

I do that inside my satellite factories which are comprised of sub-factories that create that sort of layout 😄

just not miles long stuff

except the one belt/train that brings stuff to the hub

the only exception sometimes being plastic/rubber since oil can be in odd locations and i rather transport plastic/rubber then the oil, so there might be refinieries sprinkled about

[frosty owl]

Yeah, you need to find some spots where you can hide the massive rows of refineries for oil xD
I'm not a huge fan of massive rows of stuff myself. I like there to be a lot of things breaking up the repetition at the very least

[river night]

I'm always torn between efficient builds and interesting looking builds

[fierce ruin]

ya but i rebuild everything

far more nicer XD

i can show you the hell it was before pft

[frosty owl]

Ofc, comparison is needed at this point

[fierce ruin]

want me to show ya?

[frosty owl]

#screenshots might be the best place

[fierce ruin]

very well

[frosty owl]

What's your issue at achieving both?

[river night]

vision, i guess 😄

I really like those actual closed factory builds some people do, with large buildings properly organized, i always try to start building like that, then all goes to hell and i just make big flat rows of things

[frosty owl]

Oh, I used to be in the same spot as you xD

I think what matters the most is to experiment, find inspiration and (last but not least) learn what looks good to you
For reference, I started feeling satisfied with my enclosed buildings after my 6th playthrough, but that would have been easier if I roamed #screenshots more frequently or generally had been in the Discord server sooner (got in after my 7th)

[fierce ruin]

a living hell i said pft

[frosty owl]

Example: I now really like the looks and utility of balanced belt sistems. Before, I always made manifolds, so I had a LOT to learn once I made a cool balancer and decided on my preference. Luckily the community helps a lot with that :)

[oblique hollow]

Curse of the Manifold 2: Electric Boogaloo

[median thunder]

I mean, manifolds work fine for a lot of cases

[oblique hollow]

Except Pipes but thats a different story

[frosty owl]

A new project you're brewing?

[oblique hollow]

Heck no

not until U4 at least

[wind spade]

you spelled all cases incorrectly 😛

[median thunder]

if you have >you max conveyer speeds, or if you have more consumption than production

not that it matters, really. As long as you're consuming as fast as things come in, OR using all factories at 100%, the distribution method doesn't mean anything

[river night]

for the first issue, you dont necessarily need to have everything on one manifold. You can split it if there is a clean split somewhere, or join two lines from the source after a bunch was already consumed, its really the smallest of problems 🙂

people seem to get turned away from long manifolds due to the startup time, which I can understand to a degree, if you just build a factory i like seeing that it actually works at 100% as designed, and with a manifold that just takes a while. But once you get over that, its fiiiine 🙂

[frosty owl]

That sums it up pretty well

[versed violet]

merges

[oblique hollow]

thats why im for the balancer-manifold hybrid, aka balanced injection manifold

[frosty owl]

You almost had it, then you ruined it by ending with manifold

I'm a fan of the manifold of balancers <3

[bleak coral]

I made a manifold go across 3 buildings by going into the ceiling and coming back down

do I win?

[river night]

i'll often have setups where small manifolds feeding 4-6 machines go off from the main manifold line without re-connecting back, thats not technically a pure manifold, but it does the job 😄

[bleak coral]

also it injects from the ceiling too

[frosty owl]

I made a balanced system for alluminium sheets that managed everything except the bauxite on one belt (including the intermediate products like the allu scraps) ||with sushibelts shenanigans|| but people usually horrify at that

[bleak coral]

including the scrap?

[frosty owl]

Of course I didn't even manage to take a screenshot while it was working properly before the base teardown 🙃 , but yes
#math-and-meta message

Just 2 assemblers for copper sheets at 100% efficiency at the end

[versed violet]

is train track turn radius affected by slope? Eg. do they behave like conveyors that going up or down requires more space for turn than flat?

[jade minnow]

Not really. If you don't build on flat surface, the curve will somehow always be a little strange, have to build it anyways and it suddenly looks smoother

And you can't build so steep or the train will roll backwards

[versed violet]

But imagine what speeds it achieves on downhill!

Was more wondering if making track go down makes the corner bigger, or it doesnt matter

[quaint ridge]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter, according to videos I saw, never experimented with that myself

[versed violet]

yes, I got similar impression, that you can turn and slope at same time

[vast jungle]

no, according to my experience (especially with train spirals) turning radius stays the same

[oblique hollow]

Perhaps the minimum turn radius but other than that, its not affected

[vast jungle]

maybe... "3 foundation quarter turn" still works even with slopes

[oblique hollow]

I can fit a semicircle on just 5 foundations at any slope

[vast jungle]

a little bit larger than 5 foundations (5.2?)... but I agree, slope should make no difference even there

[oblique hollow]

I mean yeah, the track is ON the edge but it fits nontheless

[frosty owl]

A balancer for 60 -> 48 (straight) and 12 (right). Someone can find a way to optimize it further?

[wicked tinsel]

if you got faster belt, cant you use the merger approach?

60 split into three, then one of those split in half, one output out, one merged back into the original 60 line

it should work i think

[oblique hollow]

Isnt that just the freaking 1:5 again?

[frosty owl]

Ye, but more orderly. I noticed I couldn't make it smaller, thus the question ^^

[oblique hollow]

Give me an hour, then im home

[frosty owl]

Merger approach?

[oblique hollow]

... Try two mk 2s and a mk 1 out of 1 splitter, with the mk 1 being 1/5th

[frosty owl]

That sounds like it could be made with 1 less merger then what I have now ^^
I'll try it out! 👍 😁

[wicked tinsel]

something like this (green merger, red splitter)

i think it should coverage to 48/12

unless i hadnt messed up something

[frosty owl]

I can just do the same but with 480 and 120 to check wether it works or not 👍

[frosty owl]

The "check" would be having mk1 and mk4 belts full, ofc

[wicked tinsel]

this is 20/40 isnt it

[frosty owl]

Why?
Doesn't it split equally with mk1 as input?

[oblique hollow]

Sorta, but this is a splitter with different belt mks on its output.

60* (60/300)

[wicked tinsel]

does belt class on splitter output matters?

[oblique hollow]

Yep

[wicked tinsel]

wut

[oblique hollow]

This is like a resistor network

[vast jungle]

Only when the belt limits the output rate

[oblique hollow]

No

Always

Ill show you the math in 20 minutes or so

This is the same thing as vakves on a junction

[wicked tinsel]

you input 60 at bottom, it splits into three 20 ?

or does the mk2 somehow gets more than 20

if it does this sounds like bug to me?

[mystic moon]

No, if you are feeding 270 into the splitter and have two mk1 belts, they will both get 60, and the other belt will get 150

[oblique hollow]

Hm....

[wicked tinsel]

well duh, but his image has mk1 at bottom

[oblique hollow]

I think i might have goofed somewhere

[wicked tinsel]

sure if you feeed too much it splits properly overflow but for underflow this shouldnt be the case

[vast jungle]

Like I said, belt maximum should matter... As long as you are below maximum belts should not matter

[oblique hollow]

Well, only one way to verify

[versed violet]

Does Merger have any kind of extra behavior when inputs > output? Does it take 1 item from each input in order, or faster belt gets to put 2 items and the others just one?

[wind spade]

if all inputs are full, then it merges it 1:1:1

[oblique hollow]

if input is less than output, the slowest belt seems to take priority

or rather, the lowest item rate

specifically, depending on if you use 2 or 3 connections:
Priority: If Input <= 50% or 33% of output

[versed violet]

https://giphy.com/gifs/moodman-wat-LRgZHbEpQvHEi8PID6

[oblique hollow]

dont question it, it is like that

its one of the reason backmerge balancers work

[versed violet]

So if you have mk1 input, 2xmk2 input and mk5 output, it will wait for item on mk1 belt, skip a spot, then take one from other two belts?

[jade minnow]

I just tested it, this is not true

It splits 50/50

[versed violet]

I mean, what are the ration when inputs have diff marks, still 1:1:1?

[oblique hollow]

Merger, not Splitter

[jade minnow]

Oh. Gimme an example. I don't quite understand your sentence with "lowest item rate"

[oblique hollow]

You can put less than, say, 60 items per min on a mk 1 belt

[versed violet]

Rephrase: Can you make a single merger merge items in ratio 3:4 by using any combination of input and out belt speeds?

[oblique hollow]

example: merger with a mk 2 or Mk 3 output,
Mk 1 and MK 2 input
Mk 1 belt will not back up

therefore it technically takes priority

this is active usage of this mechanic: bottom input is a mk 4, top too. Bottom belt gets split in 3.
Bottom belt will make top belt back up

this is the inverse of the old overflow splitter build

with a bunch of splitters in series

but now its mergers

[versed violet]

so on image we have priority merger?

[oblique hollow]

technically

[jade minnow]

The merger that is closest to the "end" of the line merges the last two belts. The merger before that is outputting the line that goes into the last merger but also consumes two conveyors. This is just a reverse manifold or whatever you wanna call it

[oblique hollow]

this is the improved version
bottom belt has 100% priority, but output will always be
Priority Input + 1/27th of 2nd (top) input

[jade minnow]

I first realized you could do that when I wanted to transport my storage to another spot. I connected all the storage containters to one mk4 belt and the last container took the longest to get empty 😛

[oblique hollow]

this includes a smart splitter to deal with any finicky backup

[jade minnow]

but isn't it 1/81 that is going through in your picture? You have 3 mergers at the top and one at the bottom

[oblique hollow]

that bottom one is slightly different, it only receives from the top and from the smart splitter at the very back. it doesnt actually reduce anything

since the output belt is mk 5

which is faster than the mk 4s

[jade minnow]

Well yes it makes a difference. The last merger (left) receives items from the kawoomba in the middle and from the first splitter. But I just saw that you don't split that by 3 and only 2. You could even prioritize more items from the bottom belt if you split that by 3

Btw what are the single splitter and merger at the very left doing? Split it and then merge back together?

[oblique hollow]

a relic of the tests done before.
They are useless here

[versed violet]

If I connect a pipe in loop and add a pump, will the fluid just keep circling inside?
[no machines connected at all]

[jade minnow]

Pumps dont push fluids horizontally

[versed violet]

awwww

[jade minnow]

Only the pressure from where the fluid is coming moves the fluid to the opposite direction

[versed violet]

But if only available direction is through the pump, then it should circulate?

[jade minnow]

I don't think so

The fluids in game don't act 100% like in real life so it's hard to say. Best example is a pipeline junction will always split the fluid even if the junction is pointing down. In real life the bottom pipe would fill first

[oblique hollow]

it kinda does: it will self reduce if added on the backfeed

[oblique hollow]

but they do act as checkvalves

and can force a direction

[zealous tide]

There's no need for a pump in a horizontal loop, no?

[oblique hollow]

no

but one thing i noticed: the game hates feedback loops

[zealous tide]

So how would you use it as a check valve?

[oblique hollow]

pumps dont allow fluids to flow back
ergo: checkvalve

[versed violet]

Uh, guys...
I think I've just built an perpetuum mobile

[oblique hollow]

never

[zealous tide]

Ohhhh I see what you mean. Wouldn't really be any purpose to that though I think, trying to come up with a good use case lol

[versed violet]

Closed loop with pump, the water circles. The pump is unpowered BTW 🤣

[versed violet]

Getting a stable 220m3 flow for last couple of mins

[versed violet]

Of 1st kind, so no useful energy can be extracted (I think)
[attempts to connect constructor to pump to try and extract energy]

[oblique hollow]

unpowered pumps still prevent backflow, but they kill headlift

since pipes are pretty much frictionless: its definitely a bug with the pump

since they always take from the input and hand it over to the output

[versed violet]

valves have the same weirdo behavior it seems

which is perfect, because it means I do not have to power the showpiece!

[unless flow gets reset on save reload]

say, deleting the pipe deletes the fluid?

[cold snow]

some of you are probably using trainstations attached to miners to get ressources to a factory. Are you putting ISCs infront of the trainstation with input and two outputs to buffer the "missed" production due to the loading process?

[versed violet]

Yes, even if prod doesn't exceed station belt input

[jade minnow]

This is a common tactic with every loading process, not only ore

[cold snow]

Yes as you can't have fluids in your inventory

so far i'm only using trains for that 😅

[iron prairie]

What I suspect is going on with that infinipipe: fluids can't flow backwards through the pump/valve. So, if any fluid, for whatever reason, flows through the valve, the section behind the valve is now underfilled. That pulls from the segment before it, which pulls from the segment before it, and you circle around to that bit of fluid that just went through the valve.

A bit like Maxwell's demon, really.

[versed violet]

Of course. What is fun, is adding a valve changes the pipe capacity/deletes some fluid(?) so it is enough to cause disturbance to make fluid circle

Zero friction also adds to it, so fun for making showpieces

[oblique hollow]

its less "pulls from the segment behind it"
and more
"The liquid that went through the valve/pump is pushing the liquid in front of it"

[zealous tide]

Makes sense

Now how can we EXPLOIT it

[versed violet]

Wonder if you can connect it with water tower exploit, to create a vertical showpiece with water flowing without power needed.

[oblique hollow]

vertical..... no, probably not

[jade minnow]

Nope... stops at around 12m

[versed violet]

More pumps!

[jade minnow]

We were talking about a kind of perpetuum mobile trying to keep the water from flowing back and "pushing" more water into the pipe. But without headlift it wont move after that certain point

[versed violet]

do turned off pumps even have headlift?

[jade minnow]

Nope

[oblique hollow]

if they did we wouldnt need to power them

[jade minnow]

But with valves the water went further than with unpowered pumps

[oblique hollow]

because valves dont block headlift

[versed violet]

Pumps do reset headlift

[oblique hollow]

unpowered pumps kill head lift

[jade minnow]

Fascinating

[versed violet]

Ad. Pumps & Perpetuum mobiles:
My fancy train tunnel decoration. Works without power(!)

I also have some good news and bad news for it.
Bad news: Restarting the game resets all the pipe flow, so it stops.
Good news: It automatically starts again (probably due to pipes being filled unevenly)
Bad news (perhaps): If at any point the pipes become filled evenly, it will most likely stop.
Still a fun piece!

[topaz hedge]

This is actually not a bad way to make HMF's... I might build this soon(tm) https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=B1APZ9hOnf6sabejkB5c

[nocturne yew]

Quick question for anybody here: I have 90 steel ingots being produced. If I split them into 3 constructors at 100% clockspeed, that'd be 100% efficient right?

I feel like I'd have to run them at 50

[jade minnow]

Depends what the constructors are making. Steel beams? Steel pipes? Select the recipe in a constructor and look how many parts per minute it needs

[nocturne yew]

It's making beams

It confuses me because it requires more than one ingot to make the product

[river night]

look at the items per minute figures, not the actual per-craft use

a single constructor at 100% uses 60 steel ingots per minute for making beams, if you only produce 90 per minute, then 3 would not be 100%, you only have enough to feed 1.5

[oblique hollow]

The (x/min) is the most important thing for factories. All other things are more... additional help

[lone anvil]

bolted plate + casted screw or stitched plate + iron wire? What do you guys prefer?

[wind spade]

the second one

[topaz hedge]

If you have steel screws, bolted alts are really nice. if not, stitched

[river night]

I often dont end up using steel for RIPs because iron is just extremely abundant, so the stitched setup is fine for me

[lone anvil]

Yes my coal is really stretched with power and steel so I'd rather use Iron for RIPs

[topaz hedge]

I chew through so much copper on my world.. it's silly.

Steel is nice, because the recipes are faster and you use fewer machines, even if it's slightly less resource efficient, fewer machines = better performance

[wind spade]

steel rods + normal screws plz

less steel used

[open meadow]

for the 10.67 foundry idd say its best to use an overflow system? so theyll fill up 1 by 1 and same for the assemblers?

[topaz hedge]

more machines, more belts.

I'll pass, steel screws

[wind spade]

less steel 🤷‍♂️ machines are infinite, resources are not 🤷‍♂️

[manic oak]

Yeah, but someone pointed this out to me earlier. Iron is basically infinite

[topaz hedge]

my computers performance is not infinite, it's the most finite resource in this game. (:

[wind spade]

that's up to you really, but afaik a lot of people here just do manifolds and it works, so 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

steel uses coal, which is way less infinite 🤷‍♂️

[topaz hedge]

and as far as steel, getting several thousand steel/min is not very hard, and only takes a couple of nodes.

[sand garnet]

there's more than 1 level of infinite?

[river night]

actually, yes, but those are probably not relevant in satisfactory

[sand garnet]

my brain hurts 😛

[manic oak]

If you're trying to make your iron consumption efficient, you're wasting something else which is typically rarer than iron. Case in point, I was using the same reasoning to make a steel factory, and came to the conclusion that solid steel ingots were the best way to make steel ingots. While that does technically give you the most steel per iron, it uses coal, which is rather rare. You could instead use petroleum coke (which has the added benefit of giving you rubber and plastic as a byproduct) and not have to worry about bringing in more coal

[river night]

better dont watch a youtube video on the different infinities then

[sand garnet]

I thought infinite is just a binary state. either it is, or it isnt

will look it up, my brain hasnt been fried enough yet and i dont want to go off topic here 😛

[wind spade]

there's countable infinity and non-countable infinity 🙂

[river night]

(and it doesnt end there, maths gets weird at that level)

[topaz hedge]

Gotcha, bolted rips is 5/min faster than stitched and you can 1:1 steel screws/assemblers. my argument is by losing a little resource efficiency, you save time by hooking up fewer machines as well as overall game performance (which isn't an issue unless you already have 2000+ machines)

[river night]

its not math and meta then, its meta math 😄

[topaz hedge]

meta math for days

So, early mid game, I think stitched is better? but late game megafactory building.. bolted alts deserve a look, as well as steel coated plates, that use plastic to make iron plates. overall switching from iron completely over to a steel only production line is worth it, in my opinion

[lone anvil]

but isn't petroleum coke also rare?

[open meadow]

an 0.15 input to low is neglect-able?

[topaz hedge]

depends on how you make your plastic @lone anvil if you're using recycled loops, yes, it's very rare

@open meadow if you're asking if it will run out, yes, yes it will

[lone anvil]

by using petroleum coke you are effectively swapping coal for oil as a raw resource no? So you are still using a rare resource to make steel

[manic oak]

@lone anvil You'd think so, but next to the pink forest there's a pure oil node and two normal oil nodes. If you take the 6 pure iron ore nodes in the North Forest spawn (and the 3 pure that are a little south east of that), you can make about 60 Heavy Modular Frames/min with the right alternate recipes. At least, that's my prediction. I'm still doing the calculations. Since you can triple plastic and rubber production from the oil coastline, giving up a couple oil nodes isn't that big of a deal, especially if you're going to get 6,400 steel ingots out of it.

[open meadow]

@topaz hedge so is that a problem or not? or does the 0,15 a min to low add up over time so it becomes more and more to low over a longer time

[topaz hedge]

if you're inputting .15 a miunte less than what a machine requires, it will run out and stop producing.

if that's what you're asking

Is coke steel more iron efficient than solid steel? I've never really looked at the alt, I just know it's the fastest/machine of all the steel alts

[manic oak]

It is not

But iron isn't a problem, so it's best to look at what resource is most abundant and easy to supply

In my case, coal is too spread out across the map, and you'd have to go and bring all if it into one place to make solid steel ingots worth it. On the other hand, taking 3 oil nodes in the middle of no where, that happen to be in the vicinity of 9 pure iron nodes makes Steel Coke ingots quite worth it

[topaz hedge]

So coke steel is sorta like copper alloy vs pure copper in a way

[open meadow]

guess ill farm hard disk then to get the solid steel ingot

[manic oak]

sort of, it depends on if you have copper nearby

[topaz hedge]

my plain is to build a massive steel factory in the dune desert, at some point, and then train the ingots down to grasslands

[manic oak]

Only in this case, you can get plastic and rubber out of the residual recipes, and you get polymer resin from making petroleum coke, meaning you can use the steel ingots for iron plates recipe quite easily.

[open meadow]

to have an easiyer time merging/splitting

[topaz hedge]

Yeah, and that alt for iron plates is really nice, it irks me when people say it's not worth it because it uses a little plastic

[manic oak]

That's where I was going to build my mega factory, Wolf, but then I realized I didn't give myself enough room and didn't have enough train stations planned to truly supply a mega base. So I'm going to turn it into a super computer factory.

It wouldn't be worth it because of the extra effort you'd have to go to bring in the plastic, but since you can make plastic with Coal Coke byproducts, I find it particularly useful in this case.

[topaz hedge]

I built a pretty big factory in the dunes and I had framerate issues. If you've already setup the infrastructure to bring plastic, and steel ingots to the same place, it's really easy. It's more of a how smart were you when you setup your train network lol

[iron prairie]

Has anybody run the math on whether steel screws are more coal-efficient than steel rods -> normal screws? I'm thinking that, despite the naive calculation of "13 steel screws per steel ingot, versus 16 screws per ingot for steel rod -> screw", the vast reduction in # of constructors actually favors steel screws if you assume use of coal power plants.

[wicked tinsel]

for all intents and purposes, you will never ran out of power

you can built it anywhere and it will work forever

its not so easy with raw inputs for your actual factory

as belting additional iron source across half of map is actually annoying

[iron prairie]

Assuming Satisfactory Tools is accurate, I do believe so. Per 1000 screws, steel rods -> normal screws saves 9.61 coal (and 9.61 iron), but costs an additional 95.2 MW of power. The 9.61 coal, as burned in a power plant, would generate 51.9 MW of net power*.

*At 100% clock, 10% of coal power is lost to running the water extractor.

[wicked tinsel]

once you unlock the turobofuel loop, power becomes irrelevant

[topaz hedge]

not to mention the extra time you spent building those extra machines. you know, your time. that thing you can't get back

[iron prairie]

Between that, and the massive floor space/complexity reduction of using steel screws versus steel rods -> screws, I'd just do steel screws.

[wicked tinsel]

its not the problem of the rods->screw being inefficient, its the problem of coal powerplants being garbage

[vast jungle]

but coal is needed for turbofuel too

[topaz hedge]

if you're still burning coal generators for primary power, maybe you shouldn't be thinking about advanced steel production lines

[iron prairie]

Given that I'm still going no-nuclear for now (and turbofuel does compete with plastic/rubber lines), I'm not sure all these comments are helpful.

[wicked tinsel]

you get 41.7mw of power per 1 coal with turbofuel loop

[topaz hedge]

I'm not sure how turbofuel competes with plastic and rubber.

[wicked tinsel]

probably less as you need to burn some for the loop itself

but i guess ~37 per 1 coal would be about right

[merry bison]

oil useage

[topaz hedge]

and? use the north coast oil all for plastic and rubber, that and dunes and you'll have enough oil for ~7000 plastic or rubber

[wicked tinsel]

it mostly doesnt, there is so much oil available that you probably wont be able to tap it

[topaz hedge]

and use the oilnodes in the middle of the map next to sulfur for power.

[merry bison]

oh yeah on large scale thats true

[vast jungle]

and we will get more oil with U4 with the pressurizer, right?

[wicked tinsel]

so it would seem

[topaz hedge]

More than likely.

It really depends on where they place them, as most large scale oil setups need water nearby

[wicked tinsel]

blue crater and coast have plenty of water nearby

also iirc, they said that the fracking machine will also have water sources

[topaz hedge]

they do, yeah, and they've more or less told us that there's going to be a nitrogen well (unless they move it) in bluecrator

[iron prairie]

There's one spot with mediocre water access and a handful of oil nodes, and another with poor access to water, but that's it.

[wicked tinsel]

so maybe we will get water near remaining oil fields?

[topaz hedge]

this area probably has all the oil you will likely need for all your plastic/rubber

[manic oak]

@iron prairie To answer your original question of coal efficiency, steel ingots -> steel rods -> screws is 0.0625 steel ingots per screw, whereas steel ingots -> steel beams -> steel screws is about 0.077 steel ingots per screw. So, the first recipe is technically more steel efficient (and thus coal efficient), but not by much.

[topaz hedge]

not enough to justify almost double the machine count in my opinion. also the fact that you can 1:1 steel screw constructors with any machine that needs screws is REALLY nice.

[iron prairie]

It's not double the machine count. It's nearly 9x more machines going the steel rod -> screw route.

Per 1000 screws, it's 20.833 steel rod constructors (each at 12 steel ingot -> 48 rods/min) and 25 screw constructors (each at 10 rods -> 40 screws).

For steel screws, it's 1.282 steel beam constructors (at 60 steel ingots -> 15 beams) and 3.846 steel screw constructors (at 5 steel beams -> 260 screws)

[topaz hedge]

Ah well, more than double. shoot me lol

Well, I think the point is that early game, screws suck. during mid and late game, you'll hurt yourself by keeping that mentally and avoiding recipes that use screws such as bolted plates and bolted frames, by choosing instead to use another alternate such as stitched plates.

or copper rotors.

[manic oak]

Fun fact: if you're combining the steel coated plate, adhered iron plate, and steel rod recipes, then the most steel efficient modular frame is the default recipe.

[jade minnow]

Bolted frame is best

[manic oak]

But if you have steel rods, the bolted frame consumes about 0.6 more steel ingots per frame, and requires you to turn ingots into beams and then beams into screws (or ingots into rods and then rods into screws, but as we saw before, they're basically the same amount of steel)

[glacial hemlock]

Bolted trade power with slightly more resources. But you know, in the end you still end up using those iron ores to make nuclear rods

[vast jungle]

there is so much iron ore on the map, I don't think you CAN use it all for nuclear fuel rods

[torpid robin]

na you will run outta uranium,sulfur,quartz

[copper imp]

Is using copper instead of iron logical? Which one of them is the limiting factor on a huge scale?

like, using copper rotor or the default recipie is the logical one

[wind spade]

there's ~30k copper and ~70k iron, neither is really a limit for big factories

and copper rotor is great

[copper imp]

we use 11k copper for quickwire

and 1k for alclad

these are unescapable:D

[wind spade]

8 copper for 10 rotors

[copper imp]

so what do you think about stitched iron plate

[wind spade]

great recipe

[copper imp]

okey cool:D I understood

so using copper instead of iron is a good idea

[wind spade]

47 iron -> 10 RIPs

or 13 copper and 27 iron, whatever suits your needs

[copper imp]

so if i maximize turbo production, which one is the efficent one

[wind spade]

turbo what

[copper imp]

or i just run out of caterium or something else before iron or copper

turbomotor

[wind spade]

max turbomotors are capped by bauxite

and use 2200 oil, 6500 caterium, 6100 quartz, 4600 limestone, 10.5k copper, 6200 iron, 6800 coal (roughly)

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=0BZycGr6GMBu4wbH3udU

[copper imp]

thanks a lot

[vast jungle]

@copper imp you should also consider "Copper Alloy"

most of the advantages of "Pure Copper" without the insane price (space, power)

[copper imp]

well thanks for the advice but I think there isn't that much of a lack of power and space in this game

but you are right in a sense I suppose, because it seems I won't be using all the iron. So alloy might be the more logical way of doing it. Thanks again:D

and I hope they change the pure recipes from refineries to different machine

[iron prairie]

Hm. Maxing out copper production requires either:
577.2 foundries and 14430 iron ore/min (copper alloy ingots), resulting in 57720 copper ingots/min
1420 refineries and 161 water extractors (pure copper ingots), resulting in 72150 copper ingots/min

Either way, you can effectively reserve 27600 copper ingots/min for maxing out fused quickwire (producing 66240 quickwire/min). If you're planning on world-maximum fused quickwire production, pure copper does result in substantially more copper not spoken for by fused quickwire.

[topaz hedge]

@copper imp It's worth a look at copper alloy, If you don't care about power usage or space, it's still worth a look only because 100/min per machine vs 37.5 per machine

[fierce ruin]

the nice thing about the alloy you can do both iron and copper alloy off the same set of input belts

[shy mason]

I'm assuming it's not worth using quickwire for stators. 900 stators with quickwire vs 600 isn't worth it as the quickwire would be better off being used for ai limiters in same spot. might just use a bit of the excess caterium for fused wire though. I'm assuming electromagnetic control rods and turbo motor alt both require them in update 4 at this point. If not it's going to crystal alt recipe and more motors.

[oblique hollow]

it honestly depends on if you have other alts too

considering that AI limiters dont have any alts right now, i suspect them to receive one in U4

[shy mason]

I guess i lose the amount of steel i gained through the ingot steel recipe but keep all the caterium, either way going to continue this factory that could go straight to motors if anything to drastic changes at this point.

site in question is the rocky desert underneath the waterfall. Going to turn that region into stators / ai limiters / concrete / rotors colonies. Already have a HMF batch on the 4 normal coal there. Looks like it'll still be needed for nuclear.

[topaz hedge]

my if AI limiters get a decent alt for u4.. I'm gonna feel kinda played

[shy mason]

Watch them require either aluminum or nitrogen

[versed violet]

Wouldn't make sense, they are needed for smart splitters

[fierce ruin]

they are talking about alternates to make AI limiters

[magic shadow]

yes pls

[tepid ruin]

Since this is math can someone help with my math homework (lol joke(but seriously I have 2 reviews for test in 1 day 3.5 pages of homework help...))

[sand garnet]

This is not that kind of math channel

[torpid robin]

wait

so you can help me with 2x2?

cant*

[vast jungle]

maybe if you can reformulate your homework in terms of satisfactory machines...

[signal nimbus]

If they can do that, they're probably ready for the test.

[vast jungle]

yes, but thinking about a problem from a different perspective can often help

especially for things like math and physics...

[signal nimbus]

Yeah, that's... pretty much what I just said.

[oblique hollow]

Task 1) Derive a formula that descibes the time it takes a manifold to fill n number of connected machines

[vast jungle]

I think someone has already done this... and it was not pretty

[oblique hollow]

[vast jungle]

easiest way is to activate the manifolds step by step... and even then it sucks when Wire/Quickwire is involved 😉

[drifting pelican]

47 sulfur and 47 charcoal -> 10 blackpowder

[jolly silo]

math? ha! i just add more stuff!

[frosty pawn]

put a storage container in the middle, problem solved.

[wind spade]

Nor accurate

[vast jungle]

@wind spade most likely the "pulsed" input of the machines in satisfactory also plays a role...

[wind spade]

Simulation > formula

[magic shadow]

reloading last autosave?
also that's a question for #old-questions-and-help

[median thunder]

@left granite crouching?

[manic oak]

@tepid ruin What is the subject?

[tepid ruin]

Math and geometric equations

And arithmetic

[manic oak]

You can dm me. Not sure how much help I'll be since my area of expertise is functions and calculus, but I can probably help

[versed violet]

Alternate math question: Does anyone bother with energy efficient recipes, eg, least energy per final product made?

[jade minnow]

You can check the wiki to see the different recipes for each item to craft. It tells you the MJ per item

[green mango]

does industrial containers output objects at full belt speed?

i.e if i add 2 mk.3's do i get an output of 540?

[versed violet]

Does that count the MJ cost of ingredients, or need to calculate that separately?

[jade minnow]

Yes. If you have a lower input, it wont be 50/50 on each output belt though

So if you input 200 items and you have 2 MK2 belts as output, it won't be 100 on each, it will be more on one belt

[iron prairie]

That is usually the same as resource-efficient recipes (as most of the energy is spent upstream). The one exception I can think of is steel screws, which technically use more steel than the steel rods -> screws path, but saves so much on power/space that I use steel screws.

[green mango]

k tnx, was planning to have higher feed and lower output use it as a combined buffer/spliter

[iron prairie]

Well, that and use of iron alloy/copper alloy and normal iron/copper smelting in preference to pure ingots, because pure iron/copper consumes a lot of power.

[jade minnow]

it only counts the cost for this processing step. So if you look at iron plate recipe, it tells you which is the most energy efficient for this production step. You need Iron ingots for them and then need to look at that wiki page to see the best recipe and so on

[iron prairie]

You can use Satisfactory Tools to try to calculate things out: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[jade minnow]

Yeah just look at the needed MW there and adjust the recipe to see if it takes less energy

[versed violet]

It gets tricky when comparing recipes with different ingredients.

[jade minnow]

Indeed. 🙂

[jade minnow]

You can perfectly do that if you had in mind placing an overflow splitter before the container, I'm doing something like that too in one of my factories

[bleak coral]

Yup, you can even have something that's nominally better for power be actually worse because of its resources used. Take for example heavy flexible frame, which I did an analysis on a couple months ago: https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/600a0376fedfd12dd73994c2

[versed violet]

I tried analyzing the "HOR -> res fuel -> recycled plastic " vs "Rubber > residual fuel -> recycled pastic" and concluded the second takes quarter less space with net loss about 5% of output.

[vast jungle]

the recycled plastic/recycled rubber is normally done together with diluted fuel

[versed violet]

was not unlocked at time of my calculation, and diluted fuel intimidates me a bit

Recycled plastic was still a good update though

[oblique hollow]

energy efficient recipes are kinda pointless when you consider that underclocking a bunch of machines will always be even more energy efficient

[hidden osprey]

im here to help you guys

[versed violet]

yes, but factory footprint also matters

[weak elk]

double checking a explorere can do 780 belt if the loop is under 3mins for a 100 stack item and around 6-7 mins not sure on exact time for the truck?

[versed violet]

Back-of-napkin says 3 minutes times 8 stacks per belt is 24 stacks, which is the slots ex has, so it checks out

[wind spade]

diluted fuel is super easy

[sand garnet]

just solve a rubik's cube, end world hunger and sacrifice your firstborn

im holding out on U4 to set up proper fuel stuff myself, curious if we'll get more alts

[wind spade]

not really 😄 90 oil -> 3 HOR refineries -> 4x 1:1:1 refineries for loop -> 240 fuel (+ 60 resin byproduct)

nice numbers, easily modular

[wicked tinsel]

even if the numbers werent nice that setup is super easy

[sand garnet]

I promise I'll look into it and put on my big boy pants after U4

[wicked tinsel]

and you get insane amount of fuel

[wind spade]

I mean each to their own, not forcing you, but it's relatively easy setup compared to some others

[wicked tinsel]

to be honest, i have no idea where the whole omg complicated thing comes from with diluted fuel setups

[sand garnet]

its because I am a lazy time-efficient player

and I dont like setting up complex stuff

with backfeeding water and canisters etc

[wind spade]

you start with one refinery packaging water, put that to one refinery making packaged fuel, output goes to another refinery that unpacks the fuel, you loop the belt back and have closed 1:1:1 loop, you put 10-20 canisters in it and you're happy. Nothing complex here

and for every 4 of these loops, you build 3 refineries for HOR (and belt out the polymer resin)

[versed violet]

We have packagers now. Take less space than refineries.

[wind spade]

ye ik

too lazy to edit

[versed violet]

Recipe is not complicated, its the space it takes. My oil base is inside a cave

[wind spade]

I'd argue that it takes very little space

since you should count space per unit produced

[versed violet]

But I count space needed per source, and that spot has 2 pure nodes 😉

[wind spade]

I mean sure but that's a pretty weird metric 😛

I'd rather have twice as big setup that produces four times as much

[versed violet]

Practical application. How to process full 240x2 oil in limited space

[wind spade]

pump it out of that small space 😛

[versed violet]

[And I kind of have so much plastic I have no dea what to use for yet]

[wind spade]

coated plates 😉

[iron prairie]

In addition to the footprint arguments against excessive underclocking:

1. Underclocking exacerbates belt/splitter/merger spam, contributing to PC performance loss.
2. It takes time to do that. A 50% underclock means twice as many buildings, twice as many foundations, twice as many input resources, and some time on top of that to click every machine and underclock it.

[weak elk]

Copy how about for items with better stack?if the formula for explorer is 3x8=24slot 3mins for a 100 stack about about 500 stack?

Just times 2?

[iron prairie]

I'm unsure: do truck stations also have a fixed amount of time for loading/unloading their cargo? If so, it's not a strict multiplier, as items with larger stack sizes can spend more time traveling and less time loading/unloading.

[keen patio]

Correct; the load/unload animation is fixed; I believe its 12 seconds minimum (and the guide to trucks recommends you edit your 'wait' waypoint to 15 for automation/lag/teleporty reasons.

[iron prairie]

Roger. I've done plenty of trains, but never trucks.

[wicked tinsel]

since trucks dont physically dock with stations, you can build multiple stations in the catchment zone

they will all work as long as truck clips any of hitboxes

[versed violet]

Trucks stations also don't pause input/output when loading, so it simplifies to truck roundtrip time

[naive ingot]

My wife has encouraged me to play around with trucks in her save. I've found that you can float a truck station over a ramp and have it load trucks as they slowly drive up the ramp from underneath. It allows you to load/unload two trucks on one station side by side without them colliding.

[smoky wolf]

question: how good is the alt motor recipe?

it seems like quite the hassle in terms of balancing. considering I just did the math for balancing the regular motor recipe, I feel like its a bit too much trouble for what it's worth. I've never used the recipe so I don't know how life changing it is

[iron prairie]

I'm a bit ambivalent about it: while it does cut down a lot on iron and possibly copper, it does introduce more limited quartz into the mix.

[wind spade]

unless you're swimming in extra oscillators, it's not really worth it. Most resource efficient path doesn't use it.

also, balancing is not a big deal, we have underclocking 🙂

[smoky wolf]

that is true

[wind spade]

(and manifolds)

[smoky wolf]

((TRUE))

[weak elk]

if the route is 1min long and the cargo is 24 stacks you can have the explorer load at 11secs and then unload plus the 1mins round trop then you can have the explorer stay on the unloading station for like 1mins and 45secs so he wont go back and forth everything just enough to keep the 780 belt feed

you can edit the pause node to like .1 secs to no idea on secs probably 999?

but limit for 100 stack 3mins explorer and around 6 mins truck not sure on the 500 stacj

stack*

[weak elk]

you can edit it to .1-not sure how high sec

[fierce ruin]

..

I did not know that this games community gets this detailed

[magic shadow]

math everywhere!

[fierce ruin]

calculus

[keen condor]

does anyone have a flow chart for an entire iron factory? (all materials made from just iron

[wind spade]

depends how many of each product do you want 🙂

[vast jungle]

and what recipes are used

[manic oak]

@fierce ruin You summoned me, master?

[wind spade]

afaik this is all the iron stuff that can be automated 🙂 https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=glldV1mDFoKWyOgKKki0

[iron prairie]

Hm. For encased uranium cells, I'm thinking the default recipe might be the better option for most people: while infused cells are a bit more sulfur-efficient and way more uranium-efficient, most people can use the quartz and quickwire more than they can use a terawatt of nuclear power.

[versed violet]

You can also allow it to drive back and forth without longer pauses - it will only pick as many items as station managed to move

[versed violet]

Q: When you build the uranium pellet refinery the old (current) style, how do you handle the sulfur acid at output? Can I just loop t to input when using single refinery? Planning very very small uranium refining for start

[jade minnow]

Try to build a second refinery (even if you only needed one) and let the second one get the "waste" sulfuric acid

That's how I'd do it. So each refinery has it's own input and you don't mix the pipes

[versed violet]

where do I put the waste acid from second refinery?

[jade minnow]

into itself

[versed violet]

won't this repeat the issue where firt refinery produces too much and second one gets clogged because it cannot process because it cannot output?

[jade minnow]

So you have one pipe with fresh acid (is it fresh though? lol)

Idk I think that's also how wiki says to handle it as a "best case"

[wind spade]

no, because the second one won't have enough to run at full speed

[jade minnow]

Because you have a fixed output from the two refineries, there won't come more. The pipe with the sulfur + water production will always be full

[versed violet]

Hm, if both pellet refineries get blocked on solid outputs, it won't overfill the secondary, am I right? Whence if I had just one feeding into itself, once it would get blocked on solids, it would fill with acid and deadlock?

[jade minnow]

I wouldn't worry about the solid materials, as long as you keep the fresh and waste fluids separated you're fine

[versed violet]

I expect the solid output get blocked, since trains

It looks like two refineries should work ok. Now I only have to calculate the clock for making a grand total of 40 pellets per minute 😃

[wind spade]

buffers 😉

[jade minnow]

One on 53% and one on 27% 😛

[versed violet]

A finite buffer will not help with me taking infinite time to fix things 🤣 . And since uranium is involved, I'd rather stay far far away and not allow any big piles to accumulate

[wind spade]

I meant buffer to compensate for trains, not human errors 😛

and you can always overflow solids to sink, right? 😛

[versed violet]

Trying to keep uranium base "small-ish". Station has enough bufer already

[versed violet]

I choose to selectively ignore this message and calculate it on my own. Its my fun! (but will check if it matches, ty)

[jade minnow]

Only ppl who are too lazy to calculate put a sink into their factory. One sink in the whole game is the way to go

[versed violet]

I find it hard to calculate the amount of items I am taking items from shopping mall, so I overproduce

[weak elk]

not what im saying ,mate.if the loop is 1min long not counting the loading and unloading and you using explorer 24 stacks and 100 item stack.its gonna take around 11 secs to unload that.and you only do 60 secs loop like from station 1 to station 1.so for explorer as long as its within 3mins loop it can do a 780 belt no problem.you can fine tune it so it dont waste fuel.to do that you do you do 180 secs - 60 secs for the loop - 11 secs for loading on the loading station then 5-10 secs for error that brings to 137-147secs.so put 137-147 secs to the 1st station unloading station and put 11 secs for the loading station

[versed violet]

If you really need to save a bit of fuel, you could., Just make sure nothing else is passing through wherever you park it. they don't like bumping each other.

[weak elk]

???????

You can also allow it to drive back and forth without longer pauses - it will only pick as many items as station managed to move

for a game that is supposed to be efficient you doing it wrong and btw that is basic.for a base with lots of traffic just put another truck station on the exit path or entrance for fueling at loading setting.

[versed violet]

What I mean, that as long as truck route (full loop) is less than time belt needs to empty the station, it doesn't matter how fast or how many times it circles between (may drive half loaded), and the calculation simplifies to how much the belt itself can load/unload.

I don't find it time worthy to calculate exact routes for fuel savings.

[wind spade]

especially since trucks will be replaced by trains anyway 🤷‍♂️

[quaint abyss]

math- 1 constructor + 1 constructor = 2 constroctor

[versed violet]

-1 +1 makes zero?

[weak elk]

well then you are playing differently like i do

[versed violet]

Would be surprised if I did. Unless you try to build realistically supported bridges.

[shrewd ledge]

guys, how much fuel use fuel generator per minute?

idk where i can put Heavy Oil Residue from my plastic factory

[wicked tinsel]

fuel generators only use as much fuel as energy you use, so its hard to tell exact number

try to process HOR into something instead of burning it

[shrewd ledge]

i can make petroleum coke, but idk where i can put it, i have no idea

[vast jungle]

petroleum coke is burned in the same building your can burn normal coke

or just send it to the awesome sink

[shrewd ledge]

i forgot about awesome sink, ty, i will put coke inside it

[keen patio]

@wicked tinsel @shrewd ledge FYI: Fuel generators (All power generators that are NOT Bioburners) will consume 100% rate in update 4, beware.

[wicked tinsel]

yeah

which is at least a month from now 🤷‍♂️

[sand garnet]

Not for experimental

[strong pecan]

does anyone have a vertical design for steel (foundries)? Like oldshavingfoam's style

[static rock]

Hi Guys!
(I know batteries will change some of this behaviour in U4 but atm thats not the question 🙂 )

My fuel production gets around 16kMW
My power use is around 7K

Excess fuel is put into storage containers / fluid buffers
I can then turn on the other half of my fuel gens letting me turn up to 26mKW for around 8hours before it needs to recharge its reserves.

I love the idea of making one factory that can just spew out crazy amounts of a few select recources AFK overnight
What 15kMW factory would you build to stockpile tier 5/6 components in crazy quantities intermittently?

[mystic moon]

I would stockpile computers

However, that's just generally not a good idea

I'd do an overflow from your pipe inputs to the gens and then package and sink it

Build enough gens for your max fuel production, no more.

That is just a bad idea IMAO

@static rock

[static rock]

lol, when the reserves are full they then overflow into the sink hahaha
Im uploading some screenshots to #screenshots atm 😄

[twilit sigil]

9+10?

[mystic moon]

That makes sense at least

Whatever works

I do like your switch method, although I'm a little confused by the point of it?

[static rock]

Switch 0 is 16mKW production.
the other switches adds 2 floors of 9 gens letting you tailor how quick you want to burn through the excess in increments with incremental power trips

Come the U4 batteries it works nicely, as i can kinda underclock the power production by the same principle
Creating 'Fuel' batteries or tuning up to fill acrtual batteries as well

[mystic moon]

Nice

That is a cool idea

[static rock]

If anyone else has ideas for a 15kMW factory id love to hear them too!!!

[fierce ruin]

15k hmm thats a lot of fuel generators

100 fuel generators

5 rows of 20?

in a 4x5

[vast jungle]

I noticed yesterday that I am within 2 GW of my total power production... 11 of 13 GW... and I only have enough existing TF production for another 20 generators...
might be time to think about a place for another powerplant... getting enough sulfur will be challenging

[vast jungle]

just organize them in floors...

4 floors with each 5x5 generators

[iron prairie]

Or 4 floors with each 12x20 generators if you're mad One trick for use with diluted packaged fuel: use conveyor lifts to bring the packaged fuel up to the top of your factory, unpackage there, and let gravity take fuel to generators downstairs.

[vast jungle]

or just put one mk2 pump between each level floor... should be more than enough

[wind spade]

btw there's nothing like kMW, next unit is GW 🙂

[vast jungle]

luckily we work with the metric system... so understanding what kMW is is quite easy... 😉

[wind spade]

it is, but it's also wrong 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

fuel generator

[vast jungle]

why so many pipes?

1 MK2 pipe should be enough to fuel 100 fuel generators with turbofuel

[fierce ruin]

fuel -+-fuel

i mean layout

[vast jungle]

yeah... but still fuel generators only take 15 m^3/min... so a floor of 30 is well below a single MK2 pipe...

5x5 or 5x6 or even 5x7 for a floor could easily handled with a single pipe... keeps the number of "things that can go wrong with pumps" lower 😉

[fierce ruin]

floor of 20 with 5 floors looks nicer

[vast jungle]

yeah

my PP has currently 3 floors with 5x6 Turbofuel generators... and a single floor with 4x5 is still missing

[fierce ruin]

you just need to use pump m2

mk*

[vast jungle]

as soon as you have MK2 pumps/pipes, why would you EVER build a MK1 anymore?

[fierce ruin]

there is a case where it would be good

splitting 600m3 into 2 300m3

[wind spade]

that works with mk2s as well

[vast jungle]

if you need to control the flow, use a valve... much better than trying to do it with different pipe types

[fierce ruin]

ah i guess it does

[static rock]

Holla! sorry was playing 😛
I know there isnt kMW but the games base unit is MW so it was easier in my head to express GW as 1000MW

[vast jungle]

all praise the Metric System that makes this so easy 😉

[fierce ruin]

100kw is 1 mw

[wind spade]

1000*

[fierce ruin]

oh 1000 bah

[static rock]

If you look in #screenshots just up a bit, youll see i made them in clovers.
3 leaves of 3 generators = 9 generators per floor
Then just keep making floors haha

[fierce ruin]

see what i know

[vast jungle]

no... 100kW is 100000000 mW ^^

but 100kW is 0.1 MW

[fierce ruin]

eagles that works

[static rock]

(Sorry for reposting this but there are more buddies around atm)
Hi Guys!
(I know batteries will change some of this behaviour in U4 but atm thats not the question 🙂 )

My fuel production gets around 16kMW
My power use is around 7K

Excess fuel is put into storage containers / fluid buffers
I can then turn on the other half of my fuel gens letting me turn up to 26mKW for around 8hours before it needs to recharge its reserves.

I love the idea of making one factory that can just spew out crazy amounts of a few select recources AFK overnight
What 15kMW factory would you build to stockpile tier 5/6 components in crazy quantities intermittently?

[vast jungle]

@static rock number of floors is just limited by the amount of headache everyone is willing to accept for extending vertically... so find a design that you like and its automatically a good way to replicate 😉

[wind spade]

you know you can just use GW instead of kMW and have it both correct and simpler? 😛

[static rock]

Mine 😄

[fierce ruin]

you could have source pipe at a high height and let gravity do its jib

job

thus no need for pumps

[vast jungle]

then you need pumps for the "source pipe"... not really different

[fierce ruin]

not necesarily

[vast jungle]

unless your source of liquid is that high up

[fierce ruin]

depends on the path you take to get the fuel to the higher height

and how much is flowing

if its on top of a cliff with a smooth path up to it

in that case you just transport the oil then make tf up there

[static rock]

because diluted fuel is already packaged i bought the converyor to the top of the cliffside by conveyor belt.
No pumps needed!!!

It all just falls from the un-packagers

[fierce ruin]

that works

[vast jungle]

but then you need another belt (or train) to bring the containers back...

[static rock]

Yes 😕 I do haha

[vast jungle]

but I agree, trains can be a good alternative to get liquids or solids up

[fierce ruin]

depends

[static rock]

But that didnt bother me too much

[fierce ruin]

if you make the diluted fuel on sight

[vast jungle]

imagine a TF powerplant with a train double-helix AROUND the building to bring up the raw resources to the top

[fierce ruin]

and unpackage on sight

now thats an idea

[vast jungle]

it would definitely look cool

but I would still do the whole fuel dilution process in one place... because I want to keep every loop completely separate

[fierce ruin]

depends on space

could work all at the golden coast

where the iron and cooper is at

[vast jungle]

maybe a 5x5 generator floor with the four corners missing... and then build the trains around it.

or a 3x3 generator floor with corners missing and the center for support (so only 4 generators per floor)...

[fierce ruin]

williing to build that?

[vast jungle]

I just build a Computer/Highspeed-Connector/AI-Limiter factory with a tower (one manufacturer per level) for each of the three...
but currently I am busy connecting a 12-train-station building with an yet to be built storage and sorting system... 96 belts of fun 😉

[fierce ruin]

im not touching my main save until mods are updated

cause of the storage

[vast jungle]

cause of storage?

@twilit sigil wrong channel

[twilit sigil]

Well you guys keep being you

Math Maniacs :D

[vast jungle]

Math is fun... so is Satisfactory 😉

[wind spade]

Diluted packaged fuel has the advantage that you can build it 1:1:1 and with you moving it up by belt you lost that advantage xD

[vast jungle]

I cannot give enough "thumbs up" for this 😉

[wind spade]

yet you gave none 🤔

[vast jungle]

the 1:1:1 thing with diluted fuel makes it so much fun to work with

[golden pulsar]

Lel idk if this is correct

I made this myself with the trailer

But nvm the update live stream is coming 😂

[sand garnet]

I doubt they'll make a machine for 1 recipe

breeder reactor seems weird

[vast jungle]

maybe its a Refinery MK2? Twice as high and long!

[bleak coral]

you missed the concrete for the encased uranium cell
also there was a new machine at that step, it has two solid and one liquid input: https://youtu.be/1WUB7XdTS6Y?t=35

We still don't know how they've changed aluminum, so it might actually be used for that too. Cause I agree it would be unusual to make one machine for just one recipe when they haven't done that before.

Especially since that step doesn't even use the liquid input.

Maybe they'll get rid of the alumina solution? Make the aluminum scrap a one step process: coal/coke + bauxite + water in that new machine.

[wind spade]

we also don't know if the stuff will be the same as in trailer

I'd believe them if they said they made random recipes to confuse players

just for the sake of the trailer

[sand garnet]

they said they wanted to showcase the recipes

so that if people paid attention they could figure it out from the trailer

[wind spade]

did they?

damn, don't ruin my theories

[river night]

yeah the trailer was supposed to roughly show the flow

of course we dont know exactly whats in some pipes etc, but at least some idea is there