#math-and-meta

1 messages · Page 495 of 1

vast jungle
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Same for me (without the rifle)

vast jungle
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Hmm... would you suggest going with Crystal Computer or stay with the original one?
(I don't have Caterium Computer)

sand garnet
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dont have it yet

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its worth getting, but yeah otherwise going for crystal is good too

vast jungle
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Let me see if I got this... Crystal Oscilators are a major pain to create, right?

sand garnet
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they're not THAT bad but require manufacturers

vast jungle
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looking for a good way to split the production of Computers...

1 Computer needs 1 Foundy (OC 142%), 8 Refineries (1 OC 120%), 18 constructors, 7 Assemblers (1 OC 111%) and 4 Manufacturers

thats a lot of space

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But Crystal Oscilators are not THAT useful currently, not sure if it makes sense to have a dedicated production for them

sand garnet
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it's worth it

cedar mica
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Never really understood the Crystal Computer. It dont really save machines, as it just move the manufactuer one production down. As for resources, it dont really seem to be saving anything

sand garnet
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alts are, well, alternate recipes

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it just creates more diversity in what you can build

old ember
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I do think there are some which are just flat out improvements. Encased Industrial Pipe for example basically just uses less steel than the default.

sand garnet
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definitely true

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heavy encased frame too

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solid steel ingot is also a must have

old ember
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Yep and yep.

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The petrochemical ones (diluted fuel, recycled plastic/rubber etc) are very powerful, but come with the trade off that the machines you need to build to use them are far more complex than the default recipe. So there is a clear trade off there.

cursive garnet
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Imo a super good one to have is steel screws since screw production is so slow otherwise and takes so much

vast jungle
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Oh yeah... In the last factory floor I built I thought (after finishing 80%) "I am screwed"... I had overlooked the constructors for the screws

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"Iron wire" was similar... 10+ constructors just for the wire

cursive garnet
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1 constructor for steel screws with 150% OC only uses like 6 or 7 beams per minute and produces like 300 screws per minute

old ember
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I like the screw ones, but prefer the recipes which just get rid of screws altogether (steel rotor, caterium computer). Iron wire is useful, by you need way more constructors for the same amount of wire.

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I use both, don't get me wrong - I just think they're more alternatives that give you more choices, than just straight upgrades.

vast jungle
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I think I used copper rotor in my last factory

cursive garnet
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I don't mind recipes that need screws since I only have 1 single constructor making screws so it only uses like 5 beams/min and even then, it's not in use a good amount of the time

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Copper rotors are copper sheets and screws @vast jungle

old ember
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That's the nice thing isn't it? There's not a right or wrong answer, just different approaches.

cursive garnet
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But yeah, 7.5 beams/min gets ya 390 screws/min

vast jungle
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I also have steamed copper sheet and the copper-iron alloy

old ember
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Steamed copper sheet pays massively when you start needing to mass produce circuit boards.

vast jungle
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I have plans.... But I am still deciding what intermediate product I want to produce .. crystal computers need crystal oscillators... Which are slow and bulky to produce

cursive garnet
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Imo avoiding crystal oscillators as much as possible is the way to go lmao

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I just don't like dealing with em

vast jungle
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The normal computer recipe is not that nice

cursive garnet
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True

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But the worst part about it imo is the circuit boards

vast jungle
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Aber I don't have cateruim Computers

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I got silicon circuit boards 😋

cursive garnet
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Same but I'm not using it since I already got the normal recipe hooked up and I got plenty of computers

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The power of AFKing lmao

vast jungle
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😉

cursive garnet
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Ngl, I just wish I'd remember awesome sink is a think more often

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When I got my fuel generators set up, I had to deal with the resin and at first I just mass stored everything since I didn't know what to do, then I set up a train station there and use it for rubber/plastic

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But I coulda just used the awesome sink

vast jungle
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I make problem come from it at the moment... But I got some alts for oil now, so I have to check my oil design again

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And I have to look up how this diluted packaged fuel is working

cursive garnet
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I've gotten to T8 and idk what really to do since for the most part, I got everything automated so now I'm looking into mods to gimme something to do

vast jungle
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But we really need am awesome sink for liquids

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T8?

cursive garnet
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T7*

vast jungle
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^^

cursive garnet
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Got everything unlocked don't really have anything else to go after besides just making literally everything super efficient or go after nuclear

vast jungle
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Do you have experience with recycled plastic?

cursive garnet
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The PR that is produced by my foundries making fuel, I have that going into 2 different refineries, 1 for rubber and the other for plastic

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Technically, only 2 of each can't keep up with their peak PR production but since I'm only using a few generators atm, 2 keeps up with it for now

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So I just use them for storage and when I need to dump some I put it into the Awesome shop

upbeat tide
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Im at the point of my build where sheer size is my obstacle

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158 nuclear plants. Sounds not too bad til you start working out the piping. The belt work is the easy part

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But having 158 pipes of water...tat gets fun

muted crypt
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in those instances I'd justify overclocking water extractors just so each pipe is enough for a reactor

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assuming you're not overclocking the reactor, too

upbeat tide
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Yea OC’d water extractors for sure

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Its a 1:1 ratio

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Im not over clocking the reactors, just habit

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And this part is the worst. I have to do it this way thanks to dead ocean pockets fml or I would have gone for a wider pipe platform

📎 image0.png
dusky dust
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Those dead ocean pockets are annoying, for sure. Had to pipe in water for my nuke plants from further away than I'd hoped. :)

frosty owl
upbeat tide
frosty owl
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Sure, but unless you use over 95% of your power capacity, you wouldn't have any issues

upbeat tide
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Eh force of habit I suppose

dusky dust
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I'd give it a maybe 70% chance that the issue with maxing pipes is somehow related to how many pipe junctions you've got, FWIW -- I sort of suspect that with as few as you'd need for nuke plants, you'd probably be fine

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I've been meaning to set up a few more 6x Wet Concrete arrays and let those run for awhile, 'cause my wet concrete seems to be running fine with a maxed mk2

upbeat tide
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🤔

oblique hollow
upbeat tide
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Lund
Tom
Greeny

wind spade
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Me? Lol

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Haven't ever played with pipes

sinful vale
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let's just agree that part of the flow rate just goes to the shadow realm somehow once that it has enough junctions

upbeat tide
wind spade
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theoretical game knowledge 😄

upbeat tide
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Game is math 🙂

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If it was a 2D math simulator... 🙂

upbeat tide
sinful vale
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idk, that is why i said somehow, something goes wack at some point if there are enough junctions who idk how or when

upbeat tide
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I do know its not a new issue tho

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I had to do alot of fixing to get my 1800 plastic/rubber recycled factory working right. Learned the hard way pipes dont like to work well after soo many junctions

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That was pre mk2 too

dusky dust
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Heh, I'd been talking about the pipe flow issue for awhile, though I don't know if I qualify as "trustworthy."

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I still can't quite shake the feeling that I'm just doing something boneheaded somehow. :D

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In the end I got tired of waiting hours for refineries to start mysteriously developing problems, though, and I just ran more fluid into my base so I don't max out the pipes. :)

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Debugging that issue is frustrating, since it often takes 1+ hours for the problem to suddenly manifest

upbeat tide
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Yea my next recycled build will be based on 200m3 pipes of fuel, or 400 to be safe. That way they are not maxed

dense temple
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so i've started another base, was just south of the northeastern desert, till I got steel, now starting a modest scaled up base just in the southern part, trying to run biofuel until I hit nuclear

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at least now I have the space to start running 780 setups (ie, 18 constructors making concrete) and ive scaled them back now i just got mark 2 miners, so that should ease the power usage once I get everything there, and looking forward to liquid biofuel

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but doing the bigger base setup before I finish the space elevator bits

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btw what happens after ficsmas with the ficsmas stuff we have in storages?

dusky dust
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It'll all still be there (you can preview exactly how it'll be by disabling the event from the main menu options, if you want)

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You won't be able to do anything with any of it except snowballs, though

dense temple
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cool

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will trees still make presents?

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nearly filled a container of stars, then the presents should quickly backlog to finish filling up the 7 containers of storage in case they dont

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did everyone get 2 quantum computers, 7 superposition osscillators and 1 fused modular frame?

vast jungle
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This whole discussion of bag pipes and the backlog problem makes me wonder if it's worth the effort to go from coal to fuel power as long as coal is enough... I have your to find a good setup for oil that doesn't kill itself accidently from backlog when using fuel for power

dense temple
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i havn't found a backlog problem, wheres it usually occur?

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to be fair my turbofuel setup is running at nowhere near capacity

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13k consumption, 41k capacity

topaz hedge
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@dense temple if you start using 40k you should start to see the issue manifest.

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if not before then. but somewhere around 90-95%

vast jungle
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my issue is how to decouple plastic/rubber production from fuel production? With Petrolium-Coke I can easily Sink the coke if I don't need that much power, but this doesn't work for Fuel... and if the fuel backlogs into the Refiniery where the Heavy Oil Residue is created as a byproduct of Plastic/Rubber production, the production of these two will also block.

frosty owl
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Can't you just package and sink either the excess fuel or the excess heavy oil residue?
Before packaged fluid you can only manage that by manually emptying the buffers :/

vast jungle
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but this opens the can of worms that I have to produce the containers just to get rid of the fluid... which would also decrease plastic production.

frosty owl
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Containers can be made without plastic if you explore and get Alt recipes :P
Still, I think it's worth the expense. After all, you'll need more plastic as you build more machines... But having more machines requires more power, which burns fuel quicker, which makes you consume less containers for packaging thus less plastic... So you will feel the loss less the closer you get to power capacity where the max is:
Plastic/min = (fuel/min) / 2 at 0% power used

vast jungle
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hmm... just had the idea to create Petroleum Coke from the HOR overflow and then sink this... no plastic necessary.

frosty owl
vast jungle
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no, just brooding over the wiki production tables... but most likely this conversion is a bit inefficient for larger power setups

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as I see it there are two alternatives to split oil into plastic (I ignore rubber, its the same ^^) and fuel...

oil => plastic and HOR, HOR => Fuel
oil => fuel and Pol-R, Pol-R => Plastic

each of this chains can use the "diluted XYZ" Alts to increase the amount of fuel... which of course increase the backlog problem.

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and 15 fuel is 150 MW... which is A LOT...

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hmm... is there something similar to a "Smart (Overflow) Splitter" for liquids?

exotic ledge
# vast jungle hmm... is there something similar to a "Smart (Overflow) Splitter" for liquids?

Not exactly. First off, there isn't really a splitter for liquids either, as the main difference is that liquids are bidirectional.

However, there are semi-complex systems with fluid dynamics on reddit that use a fluid buffer with a ten-meter "bump" in the pipelines, causing it to only flow out of that when the fluid buffer when it fills up to a certain point. If you have a small amount of overflow liquid coming in, you place this system there, and once it the fluid buffer gets to about 90% (depending on how you build it), then it starts flowing past the 10m bump, dropping it below 90%, and thus creating an overflow limiter

frosty owl
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A bit more cumbersome then the most simple version one can do, but the point is the same 😂 :
As long as you rise a pipe (even 1m vertical can be enough, but gotta be VERTICAL to make sure) that pipe segment and the following ones will fill after EVERYTHING BELOW them has.
So yes, overflow splitters for pipes are a thing 😁

exotic ledge
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The fluid buffer would give a little more control (and an actual buffer too, incase power cuts out), but it would take a much longer time for the secondary production (which is waiting on that fluid) to come in, since it needs to fill up first. Plus it takes more space.

frosty owl
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A bit of a messy example, but I hope it's clear

vast jungle
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thank you...

frosty owl
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Oh, red is overflow in picture (going up)

exotic ledge
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I like that image Vecnam. A great example of the overflow system.

frosty owl
vast jungle
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sorry for reiterating stuff everyone has done for months, but I need to get this into my head... and figuring it out helps ^^

so my plan looks like this:

oil => plastic and HOR
HOR overflow => p-coke (sinking)
HOR => Fuel ( or HOR+Water => Pack-Fuel => Fuel)
Fuel => Electricity

frosty owl
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Could've tidied up the place a bit more before snapping it, but... Whatev...

exotic ledge
vast jungle
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??

frosty owl
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I agree with swapping step 2 and 3 (makes plenty sense), but it doesn't really matter WHERE on the pipe you put the overflow split (other then for your own organization). It's all about the height
E.g.: my setup would have worked the same either I splitted after the last refinery using fuel or right after the ones PRODUCING it (that's a fuel->turbofuel setup, excess going into recycled rubber/plastic)

vast jungle
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I can turn HOR+Water into Pack-Fuel... and this into Fuel.

If I turn the HOR into Fuel I cannot dillute it anymore.

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or do you mean the "Overflow Step"?

exotic ledge
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Oh good point Vec, because no matter where it is, the liquids filled every other place.

frosty owl
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I gotta ask... Why "Vec"? I've seen this discrepancy between people shortening it as "ven" (correct) and "Vec" but I just don't understand the latter 😅😂

vast jungle
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sure, the Overflow should be at the end of the HOR pipe... didn't mean to put it before the Fuel generation when building.

frosty owl
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"c" and "n" aren't close after all 🤔

exotic ledge
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_> C and N are close... when spelling your name

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I have dyslexia 😛

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Very minor but it happens often with names. I will literally never notice it's wrong until someone mentions it, and yet I spell normal conversational words correctly

frosty owl
frosty owl
exotic ledge
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Yea, as long as you do the HOR -> Fuel before you do the HOR -> Overflow, then the location doens't matter.

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Not rude at all 🙂

vast jungle
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so 360 Oil => 240 Plastic and 120 HOR
120 HOR and Water => 240 Fuel (with some packaging/unpackaging)
240 Fuel => 2,4 GW of power

in addition to this 120 HOR overflow => 360 P-Coke (and into a sink)

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I cannot do the overflow with the Fuel because I cannot turn Fuel into P-Coke

exotic ledge
vast jungle
exotic ledge
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🤔 Naturally, you'll want to sink overflow HOR if the packager can't consume it fast enough, but if Packager Consumption == HOR Production, you should be fine.

🤔 Yea, the only downside would be that when the Packaged Fuel gets unpackaged, you'd have to split the fuel into a sink which means you have to be producing canisters rather than injecting them.

😅 Yea so I think you're fine with the system you have, since you can let the solid packager line backup when the fuel overproduces

vast jungle
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Why?

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I have a linear chain from HOR to Electric Power...
if it blocks I don't care... it seems I don't need the power at the moment.

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the problem only exists because it might also block the Plastic, which I might need (despite the low power consumtion)

exotic ledge
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😅 Yea, like I said, you're good.

vast jungle
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okay

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the amount of power this thing creates as a "by-product" of plastic (or rubber) production is still insane ^^

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with Rubber its even worse, because it produce double the HOR for each Oil/Rubber

frosty owl
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Here's what I did to try avoiding stalling my system: oil - >plastic
HOR - >Fuel
Fuel - > turbofuel (or generators, same deal
OVERFLOW Fuel - > recycled plastic
That way I didnt have to keep adding more containers other then 30/min (since I split 30/min packaged fuel for storage)

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Ofc, you don't have the recycled one yet... But you seem on a very similar road xD

vast jungle
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hmm... I have Recycled Plastic too... does it make sense only to produce Rubber (more HOR!) and then turn the produced Fuel into Plastic?

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(I don't have recycled Rubber)

frosty owl
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Yes, it'd make sense IMO

exotic ledge
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Yea, that's what I'm doing in my main run.

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Didn't have a lot of rubber production from that factory though, but I think I did it wrong. I didn't do the same process that Ven did, so maybe that's why.

frosty owl
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I made 50/50 between rubber and plastic for convenience (2 sets of refineries, 600 oil IN, 300 HOR out)

frosty owl
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I mean, it worked fine, but many machines weren't at 100% :/

vast jungle
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540 Oil => 360 Rubber and 360 HOR
(overflow the HOR if necessary)
360 HOR => 720 Fuel (by dilluting)
120 Rubber and 120 Fuel => 240 Plastic
600 Fuel => 6 GW Power

frosty owl
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Just remember to accommodate for extra fuel (over the 120 mark) unless you're sure you'll always be consuming those 6GW 🤔

vast jungle
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if I overflow the HOR into P-Coke and Sink this, I should not care how much Fuel I consume...

exotic ledge
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Yea, I got eventually made an individual factory for Plastic and a second one for Rubber where I maximized and immediately sinked the HOR-Coke. Wanted to ensure a minimum guarantee into my factory.

vast jungle
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how much buildings would be the setup above... Hmm...

18 Refineries for creating Rubber and HOR
9 Refineries to turn Overflow HOR into P-Coke
12 Refineries to turn HOR into Packaged Fuel
12 Packager to turn Packaged Fuel into Fuel
4 Refineries to turn Rubber and Fuel into Plastic
40 Fuel Generators to turn Fuel into Electrical Power

OUCH...

frosty owl
frosty owl
vast jungle
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the setup will need 540 Oil and 720 Water

vast jungle
frosty owl
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I'm glad I only BEGUN PLANNING my recycled plastic loop (600 oil to 780 plastic 780 rubber and some fabric) when the teasers about the packager update came out

vast jungle
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600 oil => 780 plastic + 780 rubber ???

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generating HOR directly from Oil, Diluting it into Fuel and then using both Recycling Recipies?

frosty owl
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Yeap

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There's 20/min lacking cause I didn't want to add more conveyors and fit it all on an mk5 belt

vast jungle
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you could have created more Fabric 😉

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but I like the setting (just wrote it up under "More Alts, More Plastic/Rubber"

frosty owl
vast jungle
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to compare it easier to my planned setup

540 Oil => 720 HOR and 360 Polymer Resin
720 HOR => 1440 Fuel
1440 Fuel => 720 Rubber + 720 Plastic
180 Polymer Resin + Water => 60 Plastic
120 Polymer Resin + Water => 60 Rubber
60 Polymer Resin + Water => 3,75 Fabric

frosty owl
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Ugh, I dislike the polymer-rubber conversion at an unreasonable level
It seems so wasteful to me for some reason 🤔 (too little produced from too much, kinda)

vast jungle
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you are right, better to make only Plastic from Polymer Resin and just create more Rubber from Fuel

frosty owl
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But if you can find nice nubers like those, I shall tip my hat. It's the perfect way to make it to good use

vast jungle
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but... no... this would unbalance the recycling loop... Hmm...

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But we could feed some Plastic from the Pol-Resin into the Recycling Loop... I have to do the numbers later

frosty owl
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Realistically, 360 polymer/min is a pretty manageable number

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About the recycling, how are you planning on sustaining/feeding it?

vast jungle
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as long as you have a 1:1 between plastic and rubber, you don't need to feed it... it will feed itself (after bootstrapping it)

frosty owl
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So autofeed it is

vast jungle
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30 Fuel + 30 Rubber => 60 Plastic
30 Fuel + 30 Plastic => 60 Rubber

so take out 30 Plastic and 30 Rubber and let the rest rotate in the loop

frosty owl
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Yeah, it's what makes most sense to do

vast jungle
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and if you want the loop to create more rubber you can feed the loop plastic made from Resin too

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I will see if I can find a symmetric output solution that only creates Plastic from Resin... this evening or tomorrow

frosty owl
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I can't really recall why mine was feeded ONLY by the plastic/rubber made from oil, but there aren't much reasons to do that 😂

vast jungle
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hmm... 360 Resin is 180 Rubber (would be only 90 Plastic!)

so I need the recycling loop to generate 180 more rubber than Plastic...

1440 Fuel => 480 Rubber + 660 Plastic

End result should be 660 Rubber and 660 Plastic from 540 Oil

frosty owl
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Urgh, me dislike when numbers work out like that
Now I remember why I turned it all into fabric ahahah
Still, it works out!

vast jungle
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now we just need the numbers how much electricity this setup needs to add the necessary Fuel Generators so the setup powers itself... including the Oil Wells and Water Generators...

frosty owl
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Why calculating that?
Do you have plans on your power draw too?

vast jungle
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because then you could built a self-contained AND self-powered factory... 😉

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if you include the power for the Oil and Water Extractors you could have a "no input" Factory that just export its stuff by Train... no belts/power-lines necessary

frosty owl
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Sure enough 👍

vast jungle
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you just have to be careful because of the power fluctiation if you need to sink the plastic/rubber... this could mess up Fuel consumption a bit, so you need SOME emergency HOR sinking when the Awesome-Sinks are not running.

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have to go offline, will crunch numbers later

frosty owl
# vast jungle you just have to be careful because of the power fluctiation if you need to sink...

As long as you don't plant to stay too tight on the power limit you should be fine.
Alternatively, since it would become an isolated system, you could calculate how much your power draw would be and with that exactly how much excess fuel you're making and deal with it accordingly without having to make a system that can accommodate a variable amount and having everything run at 100%
OR you can limit/balance the belts to the sink so they don't sink too fast but rather slowly and without gaps
Anyhow, have a good rest of the day/night 👋

quaint sage
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Does the math work out here?
Stage 1:
90 oil -> 60 plastic + 30 HOR
90 oil -> 60 rubber + 60 HOR
Stage 2:
90 HOR + 180 water -> 180 packaged fuel
Stage 3:
60 plastic + 60 fuel -> 120 rubber
Stage 4:
180 rubber + 180 fuel -> 360 plastic

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Assuming alts diluted packaged fuel, recycled plastic, recycled rubber

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By my calculation that's 420 plastic no byproducts and all refineries at 100%

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Butts, no it doesn't. Under producing fuel

upbeat tide
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Your making 180 fuel but your plan needs 240

topaz hedge
upbeat tide
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time the round trip (without loading/unload) first, then add 50 seconds. If the total time less than 4m06s, then 1 car per belt. If more than 4m6s, use 2 cars per belt or 2 equal trains. If more than 8min12s, use 3 car per belt or 3 similar trains.

belt > ISC > cargo platform > train > pipe > pump > IFB > pump > fluid platform

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This is the train advice I use dunno where that chart is from

topaz hedge
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greeny sent it to me. I suppose if it's round trip I can just use two trains. I just timed my round trip and with load/unloading it's 3m50s :/

upbeat tide
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Ah yea if its from greeny its good stuff

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Anyway I always split my belts into two or more freight cars by habit

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Like if I want to move 600 iron ore ill split it into two freight cars and re-merge the mk5 belt at the recieving end

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Also use industrial storage bins before the input and output of the train station

topaz hedge
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out of curiosity, why are you using ISC on both sides?

upbeat tide
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To counter the train station. Since it stops input/output during the load/unload animation

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Keeps the belt or pipe flowing during the animation

topaz hedge
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ah alright, that makes sense, thankyou. and merry christmas

upbeat tide
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No problem 🙂

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Merry Christmas

oblique isle
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I did some quick math, probably not accurate but its a shot
So I have a m4 belt, going across 7 foundations. It took me 8 seconds to get from point a to point b
In short, it took me 8 seconds to travel 28 meters. That is 3.5 m/s or 7.83 miles/hour
If a human can averagely jog around 4 - 6 mph, this implies that the belts travel 3.83 - 1.83 miles per hour faster.

glacial hemlock
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Would be quite safe if you always use 4m6s for single mk5 belt

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@oblique isle speed of belt is listed on wiki

oblique isle
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Lemme have my fun lmao

glacial hemlock
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😂 👍

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@oblique isle a foundation is 8mx8m

oblique isle
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oh lemme recalc real quick

glacial hemlock
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Double yr result will do

oblique isle
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So 7 m/s or 15.66 mph

glacial hemlock
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Yes, and that's incredibly fast when compared to real life conveyors

oblique isle
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Yea thats true

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mk6 when id have to try out the same test with other belts too

dull bolt
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Converts to km/h because reason

oblique isle
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25.20 km/h

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i hope my numbers are accurate to the wiki

topaz hedge
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these arn't real life conveyors. these are space belts.

oblique isle
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I know...Im just calculating how fast the mk4's are in reference to real life

topaz hedge
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although, we do have some pretty fast conveyors for real. according to google, the fastest one is at a mine and moves at 54 km/h

oblique isle
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So half of what the mk4s run at

oblique isle
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Double*

quaint sage
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Sorry for pestering, round 2 of this calculation. The only real constraint I'm trying to fit into is that the row of 6 for stage 1 looks nice and fits into the space I'm earmarking for it
Stage 1:
90 oil -> 40 plastic + 20 HOR
90 oil -> 80 rubber + 80 HOR
Stage 2:
100 HOR + 200 water -> 200 packaged fuel
Stage 3:
40 plastic + 40 fuel -> 80 rubber
Stage 4:
160 rubber + 160 fuel -> 320 plastic

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But I think to get full utilisation I'd have to triple it

vast jungle
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I also got some new numbers...

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660 Crude Oil gives you 810 Rubber and 810 Plastic... and 360 Fuel to power the whole setup (with ~ 150 MW spare for Awesome Sinks and Extractors)

quaint sage
vast jungle
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The process goes
Oil => HOR + PolyRes
PolyRes + Water => Rubber

Dilute the fuel and subtract the necessary Fuel for Power

and then you have to balance the recycling loop between Rubber and Plastic so that you get equal amounts (but still consume the Rubber made from PolyRes)

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just built an overflow for the HOR and convert it into Petrolium-Coke and sink it completely... these will only run if the rubber-plastic recycling loops blocks... power creation will never block completely because you still need a minimum amount of power

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600 Oil should become 720 Rubber+ 720 Plastic.... and 360 Fuel to power the setup.

not sure how Turbofuel would change this, most likely you will get more because you need less fuel to power the setup, but then you also need coal and sulfur

#

hmm...

1 m^3 of fuel becomes 10/12 m^3 of turbofuel... each of which has 20/6 times the energy of Fuel...

so for each m^3 of consumed fuel, you only need to convert (12/10)*(6/20) = 72/200 = 18/50 = 0.36 m^3 fuel (converted to turbofuel) to generate the same power...

so roughly 1/3 fuel necessary to generate the same power

#

so with turbofuel:

520 Oil/min gives you 720 rubber/min + 720 plastic/min... and enough turbofuel (100/min) to power the setup.

and you will need 80 sulfur and 80 coal...

maybe its off-by-1 Fuel generator because the generation of the compacted coal.

#

but as I said, difficult to balance

#

not sure it would "auto-balance"... would have to try but I lack two Alts for it

#

(off topic: I fu***** hate the combat in Satisfactory)

oblique isle
#

I love it

vast jungle
oblique isle
#

Just get the jetpack

#

Life will be easier

vast jungle
#

Jetpack is level 6 and locked behind stuff I still don't produce...

vast jungle
#

so I am hunting for a few more Alts before deciding what I (re)build next

#

my three goals would be
a) better plastic/rubber facility
b) Heavy Frames
c) Computers

#

10 seconds to first HD 😉

#

hmm... Steeled Frame, Cheap Silica and Highspeed Wiring

#

easy "Steeled Frame"

#

Next HD: Steel Screws... YES!

vast jungle
#

Third one: polymer fabric

frosty owl
vast jungle
#

Have to write down a few more "not that useful Alts" later... but when I got "Caterium Computer" it was time to go home ^^

glacial hemlock
#

Split the oil setup, each producing only 1 final product, so that you don't have to balance them

#

Still use the diluted loop setup

upbeat tide
#

Only thing I dont like about caterium computer is the high use of circuit boards. Combined with silicone circuit hoards tho isnt too horrid.

frosty owl
#

Balancing is Love
Balancing is Life

upbeat tide
#

That said I dont like crystal computers. Feel its a waste to burn ocilators in computers without necesity

quaint sage
#

The productivity of the fused quickwire alt is so good that caterium computer looks like a decent option to me, not that I've unlocked it

#

But yeah circuit boards are a big drag

upbeat tide
#

Yes fused quickwire is almost mandatory when you get to big builds

📎 image0.png
glacial hemlock
#

Just slam all your fused quickwire directly to the next machine to avoid belt messes

#

They have such a low compression

vast jungle
#

sorry, uploaded wrong picture...

#

Funny... I need Rubber, both for the Computer production and for my Heavy Frame plans... but I only have Recycled Plastic 😉

glacial hemlock
#

First hunt all the 72 hard drives you will ever need.

vast jungle
#

and Casted Screws

#

and Heavy Oil Residue... unfortunately no "Recycled Rubber"

#

last HD of this run will be analyzed in 2 minutes

#

got "Heavy Encased Frame"... 🙂

glacial hemlock
#

You gotta be the very best, to catch all the hard drives...

vast jungle
#

^^

#

had to ignore a couple of HDs I found because I had not enough of the correct items anymore

#

but first I need a new plan for my Oil setup... need more Rubber...

#

but I will need a BIG place (for 28 Refineries)

#

nice... just noticed I might need a "heavy modular frame" factory first ^^

gloomy seal
#

1+1=10

quaint sage
#

Quick maffs

sinful vale
#

seems legit

vast jungle
#

Seems binary

fierce ruin
#

advanced maths question here..... why is it that i have a manufacturer that needs 5 radio controlled units per minute... and 2 manufacturer that construct 5 radio controlled units a minute... that the machines never seem to sync up... and its always shutting down and waiting for up to 10 seconds for their radio controlled units...

sinful vale
#

gonna guess that there is a little bit of downtime for them to arrive, i think that could be fixed by filling the manufacturer manually

muted crypt
#

materials aren't in a constant flow to the manufacturers producing RCUs probably

#

down time with them causes the desync

fierce ruin
#

i realize that part of it, and i have worked hard to make sure that there is actulally an overflow of materials going to those manufacturer , even then they are out of sync and even shut down

#

but it just seems to me that there is more maths behind the problem than to meet the eye

sand garnet
#

Could pause it for 1 cycle to let a buffer of 1 set of them build up

#

Then continue as normal

fierce ruin
#

the HOR have output room to spare for the HOR, but the resin + water -> Rubber... shuts down about once every 2 minutes because not enough Resin

muted crypt
#

fix to that would just be underclock a machine to where it matches

fierce ruin
#

i did that for the Radio Control units going to my turbo motor manufactuer... and it slowly over the course of 10 minutes... took my buffer of 50 units down to 40... even though the output was 10/min and the requirement was 10/min I put a buffer of 50 units in the darn thing

quaint sage
#

@fierce ruin what is it that requires exactly 5/minute?

#

I can see how you can make exactly 5 RCU/min

fierce ruin
muted crypt
#

these decimals make me sad

#

such is life

quaint sage
#

Oh a stack of 5

fierce ruin
#

thats running at 100% clock speed.. .no downclodking

muted crypt
#

so you're producing 5 radio control units per minute for this you said?

fierce ruin
muted crypt
#

hmm

#

oh wait

#

yeah okay so the reason it keeps stopping is because it doesn't output two halves

#

so every odd minute you output 4, every even minute you output 6

quaint sage
#

Buffering should just deal with that though

muted crypt
#

Would that possibly be affecting things?

#

^yes

quaint sage
#

In fact that chain should back up

sinful vale
fierce ruin
#

ive been trying to be buff everything up to be about 1% above the required... i just think its crazy that when it needs X per minute... i have to really make X+1.5%

muted crypt
#

I need to remake my save overall at some point into more efficient subfactories scattered throughout the world. Maybe I do that after work today.

sinful vale
muted crypt
#

Well my main factory right now is a lagfest with everything all in one place.

#

It's hell to be in my base.

#

I'd like to actually get smooth FPS, aha

sinful vale
#

i meant more of i will do x after work today

muted crypt
#

oh

#

I mean... I can't exactly leave work

#

to go play a game

sinful vale
#

i meant that why are you here if you still need to work today

muted crypt
#

because desk job op

sinful vale
#

for as fun as it might be i would prioritise being able to eat over the nuclear waste management simulator

muted crypt
#

I don't play Satisfactory on my laptop

sinful vale
#

well, talking about the factory game online

vast jungle
#

@quaint sage I got an interesting idea how to "visualize" the Oil production idea with the "unbalanced" recycling loop we talked about yesterday... a little change in perspective can make it much easier to build/design.

fierce ruin
#

i am struggling balancing that recycled plastic/rubber loop right now... thank goodness for my efficency checker mod...

quaint sage
#

@vast jungle that was the sort of thing I was trying to figure out

#

I did get it to balance out exactly and produce with no byproducts

#

Gen 1, 2:1 rubber to plastic if you have diluted packaged fuel balances exactly

vast jungle
fierce ruin
#

the problem is, you need some plastic to convert to rubber to convert to plastic

vast jungle
#

instead of feeding the rubber into the loop, just convert 1/3 of it with "Recycled Plastic" into Plastic (which will get you the same amount than the Rubber you have left)

then consume part of the fuel for power, feed the rest into a symmetric Recycling loop.

#

if you keep the "recycling loop" symmetric its much easier to design... both sides have the same amount of Refineries, both sides get the same amount of fuel...

quaint sage
#

The consume part of the fuel for power is the tricky part because that isn't totally predictable

vast jungle
#

just build enough Refineries to convert all "overflow HOR" into P-Coke and sink it

#

don't worry about fuel overflow, just let the loop block and deal with at on HOR level

quaint sage
#

At the moment I only want plastic and will deal with fuel power in a separate ecosystem

vast jungle
#

"Only plastic" Hmm...

bleak coral
#

overflowing the HOR doesn't solve the fuel block, it just keeps the HOR flowing while the fuel is blocked

quaint sage
#

I've also, I think, got a formula for using exactly that amount of plastic on stuff that is useful too

#

57.5 circuit boards + 5 computers, vanilla recipes, consumes exactly 320 plastic, 7.5 circuit boards are for 2 lines of high-speed connector and the rest for 2x computer

bleak coral
fierce ruin
bleak coral
#

and if you need symmetrical refineries for looks, just mess with clock speeds rather than mess with the setup

fierce ruin
#

that can get complicated quickly... i.e. you have to have 2 machines at 88, 1 at 87 and 1 at 89 to get just the right amount of decimal places (sometimes)

#

but its more like 2 at 88, 1 at 84 and 1 at 92 that is more typical

bleak coral
#

better than redesigning your whole system into an open loop when it doesn't need to be

fierce ruin
#

and i have a awesome sink overflow set up for the plastic/rubber going to my turbo motor plant...

#

the biggest problem i have, is the amount of rubber needed always seems that when it gets to the last machine in the manifold, it simply just doesnt have enough

bleak coral
#

in the example I linked it'd be 17 recycled plastic at 49% and one at 56% to get the exact number, that's not too bad

fierce ruin
#

yet the plastic... overflows every once in a while

#

turbo motor overflow... have 3 turbomotor Industrial containers.... and the overflow is sinking.... 🙂 over 200 tickets in the last 24 hours (left game running)

📎 unknown.png
quaint sage
#

Jesus that's a lot of coupons

sinful vale
#

not enough to fill the hub with nuts

fierce ruin
#

yea... small potatos compared to what you need if you want even a couple of achievment statues.

📎 unknown.png
bleak coral
#

my guess would be how the last split is happening sometimes causes it to turn off, that last split often starves either the last or 2nd to last machine until one of them fills completely and it's not always stable even afterwards

#

so there's no loss to efficiency? it just turns off sometimes?

fierce ruin
#

i just get frustrated that you cant really match outupts to inputs ... unless you actually "overflow" the inputs... and make an overflow system

sinful vale
#

again, that is why i hate post bauxite stuff, i don't like that many decimals

digital nacelle
#

You can downclock/overclock the machine (not sure how close it'll get to a non-decimal)

fierce ruin
#

yep

digital nacelle
#

I belt the outputs into containers, and so long as they're full by the time I get back to needing something, I'm kinda a "meh, whatever" mindset TBH.

frosty owl
vast jungle
oblique hollow
#

The Perpetual symmetrical Plastic/Rubber Conversion Loop. aka how to turn fuel into plastic/rubber

frosty owl
frosty owl
quaint sage
#

Like I said, I worked out a 0 byproducts, 100% utilisation plastic factory yesterday.

#

it took a bit of number jiggling

#

sorry, it's not 100% utillisation unless you scale it up

#

My focus right now is maxing out computers and I don't need fuel right this moment, but it depends whether I find enough HDs to unlock the recycled recipes

vast jungle
fierce ruin
#

gota keep the factory cool 🙂

spare ravine
#

NOICE MATE

frosty owl
#

A new balanced player joins the mathing community

fierce ruin
#

where

spare ravine
quaint sage
#

Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

frosty owl
#

Underfloor belting. Wise choice

#

Gotta ask, though: why are your screenshots so low on resolution? 😂

spare ravine
#

cos i have to crop it

#

im running dual moniters

sinful vale
#

just give them time

warm hound
#

yeah honestly spaghetti is fine with me as long as it works good

frosty owl
warm hound
#

like i can make a quick iron or steel spaghetti

sinful vale
frosty owl
spare ravine
#

the outside of my factory looks ok the inside is more meh

sinful vale
#

mostly blind faith

frosty owl
sinful vale
#

the church of the manifold also provides the results to back it up

frosty owl
spare ravine
#

yeah ik

warm hound
#

like actually i just got factory skyline mod so i can copypasta my spaghetti to other areas of my factory (see what i did there with copypasta)

frosty owl
sinful vale
#

mate, the coal gens would back up regardless of the systems simply 'cause of the nature of power gens

#

you can't run them at 100% power consumption at any point

frosty owl
#

I didn't phrase that correctly: point being if you balance, you've taken into account the numbers so your system will likely be error proof even if it's a beginner one. Manifolding brings to: slap it there, fix it if it doesn't work

#

Which isn't bad in itself, just not ideal everywhere, especially for novice players

sinful vale
#

if you are running manifolds as an excuse to forgo the minimal requirements of knowing how much you have and how much you need in total then it isn't a problem of the system, but rather user error which would happen regardless of the system

spare ravine
#

finally finished all my iron lines

vast jungle
#

I am currently building a heavy modular frame factory... Need it to get enough to build lots of manufacturers

sand garnet
#

its a fun production line to build

vast jungle
#

Yes... Looking forward to see if it fits

fierce ruin
vast jungle
#

Yes

fierce ruin
#

good. it makes a huuuuge difference

vast jungle
#

since I am using refineries I had to increase the floor height a little bit 😉

vast jungle
#

but I noticed that you have to be careful when designing factories with Oil-based products... most players put up dedicated Oil setups... but the calculator always tries to optimize the factory PLUS the oil setup... I had to disable all rubber/plastic recipes and add them as input to get a sane factory setup

vast jungle
#

ARG... I hate when you jump from one dependency chain to the next and get nothing really done

#

"Here I need concrete... 135/min... how much do I produce? 75/min... ups... time to upgrade... how much water does the new setup need? 500/min... how much do I pump up to my base? Not enough..."

peak meadow
#

Don’t pump the water to your base , pump your base to the water

vast jungle
vast jungle
#

Why didn't anyone mention that you can UPGRADE existing pipes to MK2 ?

dull bolt
#

Because assumed it would work the same way you'd upgrade conveyors.

frosty owl
#

LOL

dull bolt
#

Buuut

#

we all know the "ass u me"... or "assumptions are the mother of all fuckups"... 😅

vast jungle
dull bolt
#

Cant blame you tho, it should probably be more clear.

#

Some slight tinting on Mk1 pipes to indicate they can be upgraded.

frosty owl
#

Tinting?

dull bolt
#

Change the color slightly when building mk2 pipes to indicate it somehow.

vast jungle
#

keep calm and upgrade... keep calm and upgrade...

frosty owl
#

It does the same effect as conveyors though, changing color when you point at it with a different mk selected

dull bolt
#

Ye, but it can be easily overlooked. I was considering it when you enter build mode for a higher tier belt.

frosty owl
#

Best they could do would be adding it in the item's description, I think
E.g.: "Pipe mk2 has max 600 flow. Can be upgraded from mk1" or something

dull bolt
#

Yup.

vast jungle
#

okay, I am slowly getting back to the original work... water to base upgraded to mk2 and 1200 m^3/min... Concrete upgraded from 5 Constructors to 4 Refineries (Wet Concrete)... now I should have ENOUGH concrete

#

damned... what was I doing?

vast jungle
#

Oh yes... I was blowing up my power grid... -.-

noble sentinel
#

Someone explain to this newbie what the meaning of spaghetti? I see it being thrown around the discord and it seems like a bad thing xD

oblique isle
#

Its when your conveyor belts are not organized at all, no straight lines, no 90 degree turns, none of that. Just pure randomness, like spaghetti.

exotic ledge
sly marten
#

Spaghetti conveyors is like spaghetti code. You didn't plan anything ahead of time so each time you add on it gets uglier and uglier until eventually you have a conveyor that you send on a magical journey around your factory and back again because you can't get the clearance to work, even though its destination is only five feet away.

oblique isle
#

Cthulu's face is another term

sly marten
#

As long as it conveys "giant mess of wiggly bits" I think it's a good term.

remote verge
warm hound
#

spavetti

frosty owl
#

I think the amount of messages explained well the love of the community for italian pasta

warm hound
#

wait

#

if you create a blueprint of spaghetti with the factory skyline mod

#

its copypasta

#

not sponsored by factory skyline mod

tender compass
#

@manic niche @random sedge - sorry for pinging, but... have you abandoned Satisgraphtory? Seems copper sheet hasn't been added. I can't find the project on either of your github, but would like to take a whack at updating it if you two aren't going to.

#

literally found no other way of contacting :S

frosty owl
#

If this is mod related, I suggest moving it to #off-topic-general or the modding server. If it is not, pardon my interruption

tender compass
#

it's a website they made for laying out factorys

manic niche
#

it's in development. These things take time 🙂

frosty owl
#

We know... life takes time away from these things...

tender compass
#

Yeah, I understand that :)
I did a search on here and the last mention from either of you was almost 20 months ago >_<

#

at least in this channel lol

manic niche
#
  • it's the holidays. Aiming to maybe release something with the same major update, biggest roadblock currently is re-implementing the simulation of fluids like the game does it. We have our own discord but It won't be very active until we release the update
tender compass
#

Oh you know what, I think I remember seeing something about your discord on the popup when the site first loads. I didn't think about opening it up in a new tab either until now lol

BTW, Thank you for responding and not tearing my head off about it! <3

marsh gate
#

Now then, I've been hard drive hunting and couldn't find one particular drop pod, and asked in #satisfactory for help. They told me a whole bunch of things that didn't really make sense to me about oil and stuff and said for me to ask in here.
So I'm hoping I could get an answer of "is this plan still legitimate of what I should be aiming for"?

undone lotus
marsh gate
#

I'm already using that.

undone lotus
#

Which drive are you having problems finding? what are the coordinites?

marsh gate
#

I just didn't know how to reach one drive, but I found out how.

#

Then the conversation went about oil and stuff.

#

And to ask in here.

#

I'm not really aiming for peak efficiency, I'm aiming to progress (as I've been Tier 4 for 2-3 weeks and want to keep moving).

undone lotus
#

If you just need progression, just create plastic and convert the heavy residue to something you can shove into an awesome sink. Not effecient, but it works.

marsh gate
#

"to something". Like what?

undone lotus
#

residue to petrolium coke

sinful vale
#

until you are deep into oil your best bet is to have basic set ups as straight forward as you can, if you have to get rid of hor at any point you can either turn it into fuel, pack it and sink it or make it into coke feed it to coal gens and throw the excess into a sink, just be careful in general about byproducts, always set overflows to sinks to make sure the primary line doesn't stop

marsh gate
#

Thankfully I've learned about dealing with overflows from oil from my friend, but he didn't really show how to set this stuff up.

undone lotus
#

This does look complex. If you're looking for some help, im able to jump in!

sinful vale
#

for early oil it's more or less, make oil into x, sink resin, or turn into solid if it's hor

undone lotus
#

exactly

#

hor turned into fuel isnt a bad idea

#

just use some plastic for the cans

bleak coral
#

I'm partial to just turning it into coke, you get more energy and it's much simpler to send the overflow into a sink so it doesn't clog up the other side

dark depot
#

for coal power

robust hazel
#

tf is that

dark depot
#

E=extractor G=Generator

robust hazel
#

uhhh math?

#

that's the answer

#

for coal power

dark depot
#

that is the math

robust hazel
#

ohh, just like turn it off and on again?

dark depot
#

but for some reason i don't seem to be putting in enough coal when it should be 120

robust hazel
#

ok maybe get a merger and make 2 miners on a coal deposit

dark depot
#

i'm using an mk2 build = 120

#

i'm using a coal miner on pure = 120

#

yet it still falls short

sinful vale
#

are the gens starving?

robust hazel
#

uhh power shortage, conveyor inefficiency?

dark depot
#

the coal doesn't seem to hit the back and i run out

sinful vale
robust hazel
#

re-install

dark depot
#

when hitting near peak

sinful vale
dark depot
#

i lose power with 2 of these at around 800w

robust hazel
#

re-install the game?

dark depot
#

and i should have 1200

sinful vale
robust hazel
#

dats why

#

u not using a like power sluggy thing

dark depot
#

nope

sinful vale
#

those 8 gens should only be capable of outputting 600mw

robust hazel
#

yellow or green?

dark depot
#

i have 2x this setup

robust hazel
#

I hope i'm helping

dark depot
#

so 1200

sinful vale
#

are the gens being fed by a manifold?

#

and if so, are the gens at the beggining of the line already full?

dark depot
#

pipes stay at 300 all the way to the end

sinful vale
#

the extractor at the middle is splitting into the 2 sets of gens, right?

dark depot
#

oh shit....

#

lol

#

i'm using 1 pipe

#

hmm, it must be buffering and then when i walked away it slowly dropped from 300

sinful vale
#

the 3 extractors produce the 360m3 to feed all 8 gens, if you sent it all into 1 pipe then it capped at 300 and the last 2 gens would be underfed, yeah

dark depot
#

well that explains a lot

sinful vale
#

the pipe work would be along the lines of the extractor in front of each set being connected to their respective set and the one in the middle spitting to the 2 sets

dark depot
#

ya it's the pipes

#

but the coal already struggles too

#

hmm

sinful vale
#

i would be surprised if the coal ran short, at 100% clockspeed running the grid at full capacity they wouldn't be able to eat more than 120, in fact most of the time they would eat less than that

dark depot
#

ulgh, might as well just tear down the whole thing and start over

sinful vale
#

not really, if your set up is like the one in the example from earlier all you have to do is connect 2 pipes

#

connect the extractor in the middle into 2 pipes, each one would meet at the point in which the extractors feed their first gen

shrewd yacht
#

would splitting a belt and merging it with another belt help give it priority?

sinful vale
#

there is no priority in merging

shrewd yacht
#

so you basically split it in 2 then merge those two with another belt

#

are mergers simply an even divide between incoming belts?

sinful vale
shrewd yacht
#

as long as all belts are same speed that is

sinful vale
shrewd yacht
#

key is I want some items produced from byproduct to have prio

sinful vale
#

them being 2/3 of the input is as good as it gets, there is no way currently in the vanilla game to ensure that a belt in a merger will be the one for the system to take items from first

shrewd yacht
#

yeah that sucks... got some poly resin that I could make it to rubber/plastic at the power plant

#

alternatively I just sink it for nothing

#

a pure crude oil node leaves around 400 resin per minute

#

guess I can just overflow the resin to a sink in case the rubber/plastic belt get backed up

sinful vale
#

best advice for early oil is to not use the byproducts or to make sure there is a way to sink them if they overflow, if it's hor either make them into coke or packaged fuel first

#

later on once that you have enough alts you can make circuits that don't produce byproduct in the first place

shrewd yacht
#

for turbo fuel power you HOR alt and make diluted fuel

#

that leaves the resin that can be used to make rubber or plastic

dark depot
#

don't how you manage that

sinful vale
#

i wouldn't recommend using byproducst from power generation in general

dark depot
#

you would have to make sure your produce indefinitely or you have no power

sinful vale
#

due to the nature of power generation and it not having consistent consumption rates

shrewd yacht
#

one pure crude oil node can supply 1333 turbo fuel total

sinful vale
#

either sink it or make it into something that is only meant for hand use, say parachutes

shrewd yacht
#

and the only waste in this setup is 400 poly resin per minute

sinful vale
#

900 oil feeds 445

shrewd yacht
#

crude oil > alt HOR > diluted fuel > turbo fuel

sinful vale
shrewd yacht
#

you have to add about 1070 coal and sulfur for the compacted coal as well

#

1333 turbo fuel is a lot of power

fierce ruin
#

How are y'all doing presents? I find myself questioning how much to produce, should I just redo the production line from end to start instead of start to end?

sinful vale
shrewd yacht
#

afaik the fuel plants use 4.5/minute

sinful vale
shrewd yacht
#

at least thats whats listed on wiki

sinful vale
shrewd yacht
#

thats 296 fuel plants

fierce ruin
#

Because im assuming we keep the stuff after the event, including recipes. I want to be able to stockpile.

sinful vale
#

if you are doing stars, i would say that you think about it from the first step onwards

sinful vale
shrewd yacht
#

which is 44400MW of power minus whats used to produce

sinful vale
#

if you are gonna use them to build decorations, you have to do so before the 18th

sinful vale
shrewd yacht
#

so around 39650MW net gain

#

from one pure oil node

sinful vale
#

idk, i do my set ups in increments of 225 oil at a time to round up at 900, so idk about the specific numbers for 600

#

all i know for a fact is that 900 makes something like 66,6gw

shrewd yacht
#

got fed up with my spaghetti system I've made so far

sinful vale
shrewd yacht
#

keep adding to it and its just a mess

#

was set up before I got all the alt recipes and tech unlocked

#

need to split the power out from the plastic production really

#

problem is the evil circle of byproducts

dark depot
#

welcome to real life 😄

shrewd yacht
#

its not as bad as doing Angels+Bobs in Factorio 😛

dark depot
#

loved that combo

shrewd yacht
#

that thing is evil 🙂

dark depot
#

best ever, i hope someone makes something like that on this

shrewd yacht
#

try that on a death train world 😛

dark depot
#

those 2 and factorissimo

#

my life would be complete

shrewd yacht
#

I was so screwed after a while as the bugs with Bobs are way more lethal

dark depot
#

oh ya back when it first started it really sucked getting super far and then hitting a dead end where it was impossible due to a bug with resources

shrewd yacht
#

I kind of managed for a while due to the infinite resource patches in Angels

#

just a lot of work bringing different fluids to different minerals for extracting those

dark depot
#

talking about it makes me want to go back and see everything they've changed by now. been a very long time since i played

shrewd yacht
#

anyways... we're getting off topic here now 🙂

vast jungle
#

Main issue with turbo fuel send to be to get enough sulfur

dark depot
#

ya but it's an off topic of mods that should be totally in this game 😄

shrewd yacht
#

that is true Henning

vast jungle
#

I am thinking about using turbo fuel for my main base, but I am running on 240 sulfur at the moment I think

shrewd yacht
#

using 1070 sulfur per minute out of the 6840 total is a lot

#

its the lowest supply on the map not counting uranium

dark depot
#

how can i bring my epic game save into Steam?

sinful vale
#

tho if you want to change from epic to steam of viceversa you have to rebuy the game

shrewd yacht
#

considered getting it on Steam as well, but not unless its at 70% off or something

#

not impressed with the Epic launcher as of late

#

not that Steam is getting better either, but its still way better

dark depot
#

epic is soooooo bad

vast jungle
#

Yes, one normal and one impure sulfur... Have to see how much I can boost them with oc

shrewd yacht
#

Got some games on Epic... a bit of competition is good IMO

dark depot
#

if they at least made a good UI like Steam then i'd agree, but if they can't even do that....all hope is lost

shrewd yacht
#

@vast jungle normal mk3 can do 600/minute, impure half that

sinful vale
#

by the time you first get turbo you are still working with mk2 miners

shrewd yacht
#

just plan for mk3 as you build

#

can upgrade belts and miner later

#

just waiting on new AMD CPUs to be in stock so I can actually play this game properly

#

probably another month before I can get all the parts I need

#

goal is to build an efficient factory with lots of underclocking

#

50% or less and just double the amount of machines

#

wonder if we get belts fast enough to fully clock a mk3 miner

sinful vale
#

we will get mk6, sure but that is more of a mater of whenever they fix belts to have them work at 1200upm reliably

shrewd yacht
#

oh well, my PC can't handle that yet anyway

#

got two turbo motor manufacturers going with all the required machines to support them, and I'm at 20-25fps in the main area

#

near the copper building making ingots, wires and sheets its terrible 🙂

vast jungle
shrewd yacht
#

400 sulfur can support 500 turbo fuel

#

thats just over 111 fuel generators

sinful vale
#

yes, 400 coal 400 sulphur and 225 oil, what you can do is set up your turbofuel plant and put an overflow for the compacted coal and make the weaponry with it

shrewd yacht
#

usually make that down in the water hole in SW

#

I tend to start in the SW in the green biome

#

the hole has like 4 coal nodes an and iron and copper node as well

sinful vale
shrewd yacht
#

often set up my coal power there early game

#

yep there is sulphur up top on a cliff next to a limestone node

#

eventually set up the compacted coal factory there and belted that over to the oil area in the west

#

current mess for oil is just a mess of rubber and plastic with HOR byproduct that I then convert to fuel and turbo fuel for power

#

also making coke from that going way over to another area up on the mountain near two quartz nodes where I make aluminium

#

should probably set up a dedicated power line to 10 of the coal plants for reserve power in case

#

if power trips now I have to drive all over the place to expand generation

#

and unless they fixed it, mobs respawn next to unpowered buildings after a while

vast jungle
#

I have a 24-generator coal power plant... not sure I will need it that large in the future, the coal might be better elsewhere... maybe I downscale it to 16 or 8 generators to power my mining operations in this area

sinful vale
shrewd yacht
#

yeh I know... just a massive factory to deal with

sinful vale
#

meh, turbofuel takes more space tbh

shrewd yacht
#

problem is you kind of have to set up one for each

#

I'll probably do something big like that when I got a PC that can deal with more than two manufacturers making turbo motors 😛

#

but tbh the game is way ahead of any processing power out there if you want to go big

#

afaik the crazy guys got pretty beefy computer setups and its lagging like made if its all running

acoustic geyser
#

what is this chat for?

vast jungle
shrewd yacht
#

for figuring out setups and calculations and so on

acoustic geyser
#

oh

sinful vale
acoustic geyser
#

come in handy

shrewd yacht
#

going to be busy in here after next big patch when the recipes changes

acoustic geyser
#

yeah

sinful vale
#

everyone that invested in alum will be

acoustic geyser
#

crafts is more expensive then earlier

shrewd yacht
#

really hope they do not mess with more than the bauxite stuff

sinful vale
acoustic geyser
#

i need tooooo many iron and limestone

shrewd yacht
#

supercomputers!!??

acoustic geyser
#

yeah

shrewd yacht
#

aww man... so I have to redo a lot then

acoustic geyser
#

supercomputers

sinful vale
vast jungle
#

I am happy, I am still Tier 5 progressing to Tier 6 😉

acoustic geyser
#

i have only 4 iron deposits

#

and only 2 is working

shrewd yacht
#

get as many harddrives as you can Henning

#

you really want the nice alternate recipes asap to avoid having to do temporary stuff

acoustic geyser
#

and only 1 limestone deposit with 1 portable drill

shrewd yacht
#

oh that must be early game

acoustic geyser
#

and my hub in a half hill half mountain

acoustic geyser
shrewd yacht
#

what biome did you start in?

acoustic geyser
#

desert

sinful vale
shrewd yacht
#

I think desert has pretty good nodes as well

#

more normals and pure

acoustic geyser
#

im live in mountain

sinful vale
#

depends of which of the 2 deserts it is

acoustic geyser
#

sabd

#

sand

sinful vale
#

dune desert?

#

or rocky one?

acoustic geyser
#

dune?

#

what

#

say in Russian

shrewd yacht
#

there are two kind of dry biomes

sinful vale
shrewd yacht
#

one is very open and no vegetation

acoustic geyser
#

Say In Russian

sinful vale
#

idk russian

acoustic geyser
#

idk english

#

im only pre-intermeddiate

sinful vale
#

the fact that you are speaking leads me to believe that you know more english than i russian

#

is the desert full of sand or full of sand and rocks?

shrewd yacht
#

there is the "rocky desert" and "dune desert" when you selected start

acoustic geyser
#

2nd

#

2nd biome

#

ah emm...

#

rocky

shrewd yacht
#

if its second from left in list then its rocky desert

acoustic geyser
#

good translater

sinful vale
#

ok, then it's a good biome to start, you have enough resources to work with without too many issues

acoustic geyser
#

i think it's perfect biome

#

did u all see that mult tutorial on screen?

sinful vale
#

mult tutorial?

acoustic geyser
#

in start of game

#

when u flying to planet

sinful vale
#

the animation while you land in the planet?

acoustic geyser
sinful vale
#

yes, i've seen it

acoustic geyser
#

in Russia that blue men is called fixics

sinful vale
#

the company?

shrewd yacht
#

the "Northern Forest" is probably the best in terms of early resources

acoustic geyser
#

Blue Men

shrewd yacht
#

massive amount of pure iron nodes around

vast jungle
#

damned... I need to get water that is "over this cliff"... and now I have built a tower ~100 meters high to get over it... not sure this is worth the pumping effort.

shrewd yacht
#

go around it?

acoustic geyser
#

In Russia we have mult with name "fixics"

sinful vale
acoustic geyser
#

and in this mult people is same like in start tutorial

shrewd yacht
#

heh

#

only downside of grassy area is the high amount of impure nodes

acoustic geyser
#

in what hub upgrade i can FINALLY get ship?

shrewd yacht
#

need a bit more power to get resources due to that

#

hmm is that the last step?

vast jungle
#

what do you say... either longer pipeline of more elevation to get over?

shrewd yacht
#

Havent done the hub part in ages

sinful vale
acoustic geyser
#

to tiers of hub upgrade

#

NOT space elevator

shrewd yacht
#

he didn't skip the upgrading of the hub

sinful vale
#

after completing the hub upgrade 6 i think

shrewd yacht
#

I think its the final step where you get the ship

acoustic geyser
#

what hub upgrade is number? that's the question

sinful vale
acoustic geyser
#

i understood

#

aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh

#

dune desert

#

it's 4th biome

sinful vale
#

yes

acoustic geyser
#

i'm playing in Russian language

#

i didn't know

sinful vale
#

well, now you do

acoustic geyser
#

did u know that u can connect prime electrical stands with theirself to see general electrical power?

sinful vale
#

no, i didn't

acoustic geyser
#

really?

vast jungle
acoustic geyser
#

it's more comfortoble

sinful vale
acoustic geyser
#

u can see GENERAL electrical graphic and not separately

sinful vale
acoustic geyser
#

if u didn't do so u need to rebuild all electro lines

#

I understood nothin' but it's very interesting

#

do u all having holiday?

shrewd yacht
#

yep, most are off work until the 4th january

acoustic geyser
#

im not

shrewd yacht
#

guess it depends on what you do

acoustic geyser
#

studying

shrewd yacht
#

retail stores will be open during the coming week of course

#

but most offices are closed

acoustic geyser
#

in school

#

im appritance

shrewd yacht
#

being a good student ehh? 🙂

acoustic geyser
#

what

shrewd yacht
#

studying during the holidays that is

#

schools are closed here at least

acoustic geyser
#

i DONT have holiday until 29/30 december

shrewd yacht
#

really?... guess its different over there then

acoustic geyser
#

what different?

shrewd yacht
#

25th and 26th are public holidays here in Norway at least

#

and schools close for around a week or so depending on what day of the week Christmas is on

acoustic geyser
#

now is 27th December

shrewd yacht
#

and its a sunday, so people are off work/school

acoustic geyser
#

in tomorrow i need to study for 2/3 days before holidays!!!

shrewd yacht
#

how long do that holiday last there?

acoustic geyser
#

and this history with damn Italy and recovering age

#

and this text about yor friend

#

it's all pissing me off

#

I'm sick of it

vast jungle
sinful vale
#

meh, if you already have to deal with connecting 111 gens doing it with 1 pipe or 2 pipes is more or less the same to me, i already have to make stuff happen with something that uses that much space

vast jungle
frosty owl
acoustic geyser
#

yeah

#

WWIII

#

wow

#

but pikachu is Japanese

#

then i'll recover Stalin

carmine lion
livid torrent
acoustic geyser
#

am i one don't understand why i need water?

livid torrent
sinful vale
#

coal gens are literally steam engines, so they need water to make the steam

acoustic geyser
#

am i only didnt know that this game have steam engine?

livid torrent
#

it's just how the coal generators work, once you finish space elevator phase 1 and/or tier 3/4 upgrades, then it becomes pretty important

acoustic geyser
#

im tier 0

carmine lion
#

@acoustic geyser can you move this stuff to a more appropriate channel or knock it off.

frosty owl
#

Then you're spoiling yourself quite a bit in this channel...

livid torrent
#

then you don't have to worry about water for a while

#

anyways, I'm still recovering from building a motor factory of 5/min at tier 5

acoustic geyser
#

constructor creating 60 details/minute. Right?

livid torrent
#

how difficult are optimal crystal oscillator and heavy mod frames factories at an optimal level?

livid torrent
acoustic geyser
#

iron bar?

livid torrent
#

15/min

acoustic geyser
#

15???

frosty owl
acoustic geyser
#

4 splitters?

livid torrent
#

if you want 60 bars a minute then you gotta split it into 4 constructors

paper condor
acoustic geyser
#

Details

livid torrent
#

I just did 2 constructors and it works fine though

frosty owl
livid torrent
acoustic geyser
livid torrent
#

then this certainly isn't the channel for you yet

#

at least get to tier 1 before talking about the mathematics of factory builds, because in that case you probably don't have everything you need for a proper factory

paper condor
#

Yeah unlocking basic logistics is absolutely necessary

#

You won't get anywhere without splitters

livid torrent
#

Anyway, I was here to ask, what types of factories do people typically make during tier 5/6 for items such as crystal oscillators and heavy modular frames: space efficiency or trying to make the most from one manufacturer/assembler, e.g. in the case of modular frames actually inputting enough of each item to get the max final product

📎 unknown.png
sinful vale
#

as for oscillators i should set up a lines but i always said next time when thinking about it

livid torrent
#

For example, do people actually get in that needed 10 EIBs or do they just make a little bit and wait for longer periods of time

sinful vale
#

for eib set up longer chains, since they are your belt materials for mk4

livid torrent
#

also in tier 6 a lot of hub upgrades and other buildings use a lot of heavy frames so I assume that I should make some kind of factory for them (and my friend is extremely insistent on progressing quartz, so I need to make an oscillator factory now)

sinful vale
#

same would apply to pretty much anything you may use for belts, it's not hard to underestimate the amount of belts you can make in a single go

livid torrent
#

Yeah I've only just unlocked oil processing and am working towards manufacturers now using the bottom-right area of the map for oil

sinful vale
livid torrent
#

so I only have about 6 EIBs per minute

#

because nothing needs them yet

#

also that's really useful information about the heavy frames, thank you

paper condor
#

I just have one manufacturer making heavy modular frames

#

And already have more than I need, at least for tier 6

sinful vale
livid torrent
#

so should I make a lot more eib then?

sinful vale
#

make as many of them as you think you will need, say steel beams at the moment

#

you will be using them in the same quantities

paper condor
#

Eib is also used in other recipes

livid torrent
#

okay gotcha

paper condor
#

So you'll want a good amount

livid torrent
#

in which case I should probably de-optimize part of my motor factory because it's very over-optimised

#

and yet I don't actually need that much in the end

#

also how good should my plastic and rubber factories be

#

EIB level important, quickwire level important or heavy mod frames level important

sinful vale
#

eib important, tho oil is particular of how massivelly different the efficiency is between early oil and late oil

livid torrent
#

okay gotcha

#

thank you for the info, I'll write it down for when it isn't 1am in Aus time

sinful vale
#

iirc, in early oil a node of 300 can give 200 plastic/rubber where as in late a 300 node can give 900

#

so for the earlier steps don't do more stuff than what you need at the moment

livid torrent
#

okay

#

also for heavy mod frames what's a good amount to make per minute?

sinful vale
#

a manufacturer is enough in all honesty

livid torrent
#

just one with backlog or not backlogged and just let it do its thing

frosty owl
#

Unless you really start spamming trains or industrial fluid buffers...

livid torrent
#

im not going to do that

frosty owl
#

Your CPU will thank you

livid torrent
#

so do I need to backlog that manufacturer or can I just leave it to do its thing without a super-optimal input

sinful vale
#

why would you spam buffers for any reason?

paper condor
#

They look nice :v

sinful vale
livid torrent
#

okay coolio

#

thank you guys very much!

#

wait one more thing

#

are crystal oscillators even important

paper condor
#

They're used in some recipes and the MAM, so yes, but not that important for tier 5-6

livid torrent
#

okay, but I have a quartz crystal factory atm: do I make it into a oscillator factory or not

sinful vale
paper condor
#

If you have the quartz go for it imo

frosty owl
sinful vale
#

before that they are mostly for hand use, like hmf

livid torrent
#

okay gotcha

#

aight thank you guys imma go sleep now

sinful vale
frosty owl
#

I'd think so too. But I have seen otherwise way too often

spare ravine
#

ahh finally finished my coal plant

vast jungle
#

I started on the Turbofuel setup only to discover that I should raise the platform one Foundation (to have space for "under-belts")

sinful vale
vast jungle
sinful vale
#

idk, turbofuel set ups are way more pipe heavy than belt heavy, never had any issues with fitting the belts

vast jungle
vast jungle
#

at the moment it looks like I built a little bit too close together... I cannot find space for power poles 😉

marsh gate
#

Alright, I need math help in figuring out how to calculate this on my own.
So I need 305/min of a specific ore, and I only have access to Mk3 belts (which can only do 270/min). So that would be two Mk2 miners.
To try for 100% efficiency instead of overflooding the system with ore, how would I calculate the clockspeed of the two Mk2 miners (for the two to give me exactly 305/m spread out by the two)?
I tried 305 / 2 and that gives me 152.5, but I don't think that's the number I'm looking for.
Or is it? I dunno. That's why I'm asking. The Satisfactory Tools website sadly doesn't tell me how many miners (and what clockspeed I should be setting them to) based on ore quality.

#

In my case, it would be Normal.

topaz hedge
#

152.5/120= 1.2708 so OC to 128% on both miners.

marsh gate
#

How are you seeing 128%, when it's 1.2708?

#

Wouldn't it need to be 1.2758 to round it up to the next number?

oblique hollow
#

(2 * Default extraction rate of miner mk 2 * x) = 270, assuming you want one full belt
rearrange formula and solve for x:
x = 270 / (2* Default Extr. Rate)

marsh gate
#

My head hurts just looking at that. Ow. lol, sorry.

oblique hollow
#

The OC percentage directly affects output.
How much does one mk 2 miner spit out at 100%?

jade minnow
#

If you round it down you don't get the needed amount from the miner. Better have it mine slightly more than letting your factory get slightly less ore

topaz hedge
#

unless it's a perfectly even number (it rarely is) always round up to the next whole precent

oblique hollow
#

ok, so default rate of a mk 2 miner on a normal node is 120

#

so to get the oc percentage if you wanna fill a mk 3 belt:
270 / (2* 120)
so 270 / 240

#

and thats 1.125, so around 112 or 113%

#

on a sidenote: @lean horizon i never want to look at this formula again. Theres some more rules for when the term in brackets turns negative, but i wont cover that right now. You will get a result with about 20% error

📎 unknown.png
#

Its absolutely horrendous and i dont recommend anyone to ever use this

jade minnow
#

Why did you show it to us then? 🤓

oblique hollow
#

in case anyone is mad enough to try and calculate how long it will take for their manifold to fill. I enable other people's madness, i dont judge it.

lean horizon
#

impressive

oblique hollow
#

Though that doesnt mean i can't give my opinion on this

#

Long story short: just wait for @wind spade to make a new manifold tool and use that

#

Who knows, maybe greeny can actually use this when programming the new tool (though i doubt it, lol)

topaz hedge
#

... Well, that's intense.. I normally just leave the output disconnected and turn them on one at a time cup

oblique hollow
#

yeah, its easier to either

  1. dont give a damn how long it takes or
  2. prefull the belts and machines
#

@marsh gate sorry for sidetracking, please ignore everything about that lol

marsh gate
#

You're fine. 🙂

lean horizon
#

the formula was about seeing if there was an equation instead of just simulating it(looping with new numbers until we get to end)

#

which is what greeny's old calc does, and it works, it started as a curiousityt

oblique hollow
#

im sure you could tear this formula appart and use bits and pieces of it for new calculations. The Denominator, in the end, gives you the actual time for when all the other machines before are full, the Nominator is just "what happens when the other machines are filling as well?"

marsh gate
#

Alright, another question. When needing more than one Mk2 miner (each with one power shard), and needing exactly 270/min (on a Normal node), is it more cost effective (on power, aka less draining) to do this, or to have one Mk2 miner with three power shards?
I think it's cheaper to have two miners with one power shard each, but I'm curious.

oblique hollow
#

more machines is always more power-efficient

#

power usage is not linear with increased OC %

marsh gate
#

Alright, thank you.

oblique hollow
#

I think it was an exponential use of power.
250% OC is about 4.33 x Base Power Consumption, while 150% is about 1.9 x Base Power Consumption

dusky dust
#

That equation is glorious. :P

oblique hollow
dusky dust
#

Same thing

frosty owl
#

Then just go balancers :)

#

Speaking of, after some talks with some expert balancers, I think we can agree that adding valves on each output of a pipe can turn a pipe manifold into a perfectly balanced system, possibly better then one made by splitting the pipes accordingly

oblique hollow
#

Hooray. It only makes sense though, since it is basically a huge x-way splitter that doesnt allow more than its valve's limits on each output

#

i wasnt quite sure of the valve's role when they were added, but over time, especially after seeing the mess that is large pipe manifolds / balancers, im quite sure that they are a vital tool for large manifold-balancer hybrids

frosty owl
#

At the current point, IMO, other then personal preferences there is no reason to split pipes over manufolding them with valves (if one wants to balance them)
Still, even in normal manifold a few valves make the math and organization quite easier

sharp sapphire
#

ok so im reworking my factory right now i have 6 current smelters. 1 of them are going to a splitter down the line to go to 2 constructers then a merger, then a splitter into 3 more constructors to make 30 screws a minute

#

gfive me a few and i can take some pics

#

but im wanting to make a set of plates next

#

oh and the nodes are normal

frosty owl
#

3 constructors making 30 screws/min each? Did you ubderclock them? (They normally make 40/mkn each)

wind spade
sharp sapphire
#

no 30 total

frosty owl
sharp sapphire
#

wait now im a little more confused moment...

frosty owl
#

Quite. The idea itself is not bad: 1 smelter makes 30/min
Each iron rod constructor takes (and makes) 15/min, so 2 is fine

sharp sapphire
frosty owl
#

But those 30/min rods gets divided in 3 screws constructor that at NORMAL rates turn them into 120 screws/min (10 rods - > 40 screws each constructor)

sharp sapphire
#

yeah 120 a minute. thats efficent right?

frosty owl
#

Just enough for 2 assemblers making reinforced plates 👍

sharp sapphire
frosty owl
#

You need to check out either which belts are full/not full enough or the efficiency of the individual machines to find which one is having issues

#

Probably something connected to more machines, seeing how much it spikes, not something at the end of the line

sharp sapphire
#

i just turned off everything else....OH WAIT

#

would the jump pad cause spikes?

frosty owl
#

Don't think so

#

How much power it consumes, anyway?

sharp sapphire
#

not sure its just the one.....but i just noticed that the 2 constructors making the rods are backing up for some reason

#

OH WAIT i know why

#

its cause i had 2 smelters going to it

frosty owl
frosty owl
sharp sapphire
#

you mean the one that was to the right of the power pole? the 3 constructors making screws

frosty owl
#

Although it doesn't look like it's ONLY because of those 2 smelters. The spikes seem excessive for just those 2 machines

sharp sapphire
#

ok so what do i need to make it efficent for making plates out of 1 smelter, also pure since i have 1 pure node going to 2 smelters

frosty owl
#

Normal or reinforced plates?

sharp sapphire
#

normal first reinforced later

frosty owl
frosty owl
#

Beware, pure nodes output 120/min, so you need a belt mk2 to empty it properly and 4 smelters to keep it busy

sharp sapphire
#

right now 2 nodes are being mined, i have another node thats pure set up VERY far away which ill be changing to mk2 belts later

#

oh i know why its spiking, im on top of the miner right now and it keeps producing and stopping repeatedly. that would def cause the spike