#math-and-meta

1 messages · Page 493 of 1

topaz hedge
#

or 1200mw, it really just depends on how efficient you are. Well, if you do that, good luck to ya. I'm probably going to do a biomass factory, but no biomass burners, liquid biofuel and fuel gens (:

shadow kite
#

that's a bit of a cheat :p

exotic ledge
#

I think the trick to a Biomass Burner Challenge Run is to overbuild and underclock the factory buildings. If I have enough resources for 10 machines, build 40 and underclock them all to 25%.

#

Will have to play to find best ratio of machines to clockspeed.

#

x2 to 50% might be the best ratio

topaz hedge
#

it doesn't matter.. underclocking them is pointless.

exotic ledge
topaz hedge
#

underclocking power generation building is pointless.

vast jungle
#

The main issue would be to gather biomass fast enough

exotic ledge
#

Not undercocking the Burner.
Underclocking the factory that the burners are supporting

topaz hedge
#

oh

exotic ledge
#

I'll edit my post to clarify

topaz hedge
#

mybad, no you're good i'm just slow. lol

exotic ledge
vast jungle
#

There will be a maximum amount of power you can handle and it will decrease over time when you have to run longer distances

#

Still, if you have to put in the biomass by hand, there is still a limit

shadow kite
#

a vehicle helps a little though

exotic ledge
#

Yea, exactly. If I have to go to each container and manually feed, then speedrun strats come into play.

topaz hedge
#

i dunno, I think some people have tried liquid biomass and they said it's pointless or not worth it? but liquid biomass has more energy than solid biofuel.. if you make the setup that makes it efficient though, why not?

vast jungle
#

Would be interesting to know how much biomass energy thrre is on the map

shadow kite
#

liquid biofuel is only good for buffer as i see it

#

and vehicles

#

(jetpack too if we could use it there)

vast jungle
#

Liquid biomass, also called moonshine/booze 😉

shadow kite
#

i prefer vodka

vast jungle
#

I hatte biomass brining so much that I spent half an hour to build a water coal storage for my new coal plant

exotic ledge
#

Oh another concept for the Biomass Burner Challenge without a farming mod is that I could just use Tickets to buy it from the Shop.

I'll still have to manually feed the machines but it does mean biofuel is unlimited.

vast jungle
#

Good idea

#

I wonder if the space elevators cable would burn 😉

topaz hedge
#

shop tickets are not unlimited..

#

I mean they are, but.. you're not gonna be able to produce enough power with biomass to make enough tickets to keep it going for long.

exotic ledge
bleak coral
#

Biomass burner only sounds so bad, the only biomass only challenge I'd take on is one that allows for liquid biofuel and/or biocoal/charcoal

topaz hedge
#

Yeah, the real turn off for the biomass burner is the manual loading and no storage.. with liquid biofuel it doesn't sound so bad because you can have tanks filled with it, and it'll run until they run empty.

shadow kite
#

technically burners have a single slot but yeah

topaz hedge
#

i dunno, I've thought about setting up a bullet factory in the swamp or somewhere near there and have it fueled by liquid biofuel. that's about the closest I've come to a biopower challange lol

rich canyon
#

I'm trying to make my factory more efficient with screw production, I got this alt recipe for screw that only needs iron ingots, but it needs such a weird number that I'm having trouble working around, 12.5. Any tips?

sand garnet
#

12.5?

#

Never saw that

rich canyon
#

12.5 iron ingots per min, for 12 alternate: casted screw, 50 parts per min

sand garnet
#

seems pretty good

rich canyon
exotic ledge
#

When you say "Efficient" you mean that you want this to run 100% of the time?

rich canyon
#

yep

exotic ledge
#

Feed it 13 ingots per minute... Or the right answer is to build a manifold.

#

If you Manifold your ingot production into these constructors, they'll consume only the listed value (12.5 per minute) and the rest will overflow through the Manifold.

#

So if you're making 60 ingots per minute
You can run four of these constructors.
60 splits, and 12.5 get consumed while the rest (37.5) continues on.
Then another one takes 12.5 and 25 continues on.
Then the last two take the even split of 12.5 each.

rich canyon
#

That sounds like a lot of smart talk, but i think I know how to do it

exotic ledge
rich canyon
#

I just tried the Manifold idea, wow it really does make things more compact, thanks!

exotic ledge
#

Glad you got it to work!

rich canyon
#

The game is a ton of fun, but it feels like I don't have the brainpower to do well in it.

sullen cloud
#

There are tools which can help, check the pins

exotic ledge
# rich canyon The game is a ton of fun, but it feels like I don't have the brainpower to do we...

Well one of the best things about this game is that you can play it at your own pace. Don't feel pressured to make the best system with the best ratios and don't feel intimidated when people talk about their expansive and big factories.

Just sit back, relax, and build some machines. If you want it to be efficient, grab out a piece of paper and a pencil and just start writing down your thoughts. Could help figure out what you want without thinking too hard.

#

Also I love to listen to Celestial Soda Pop by Ray Lynch while thinking. It's got a nice smooth tune that really helps me focus. I just keep it on a low volume near by and turn off other sounds.

steel wharf
#

Hello, I have 2 assemblers making reinforced plates. It says it needs 30 plates per minute each. So I have 3 constructors making iron plates, one of which is splitting its 10 off to each of the assemblers however Im seeing that I am making to many plates for some reason?

wind spade
#

do you have enough screws?

sinful vale
steel wharf
#

I have plenty of screws

sinful vale
steel wharf
#

Yep

exotic ledge
#

Did you have your Iron Plate constructors running while you were setting up the belts for the RIP Assemblers?

It's possible that the Iron Plates in the constructors stacked up while you were building your factory, and thus your Mk1 Belts are moving 60 Iron Plates per minute because of that burst of 300 Plates (100 plates in a stack for each constructor).

If you clear out the Iron Plates from each constructor and assembler, then the lines should balance out correctly.

sinful vale
#

are both the assemblers and the plates constructors running at 100% effciency?

steel wharf
#

Yea, everything is 100%.

steel wharf
sinful vale
# steel wharf Yea, everything is 100%.

if everything is at 100% including the constructors for the plates then it's likely just that the constructors filled before you set the assemblers up, but that shouldn't impact anything tho

steel wharf
#

Thats what I though. I may have turned off the assemblers and things just backed up more and more from there. Im going to turn off the miners and let everything run through

sinful vale
#

no need tho, it's just a visual thing at this point tbh, they don't affect production in any way

exotic ledge
# sinful vale if everything is at 100% including the constructors for the plates then it's lik...

It'll make it look like he has too many plates, since all 3 constructors are holding 300 plates, trying to output on Mk1 belts but being unable to merge correctly, filling up the Assemblers too fast and since his production and consumption are equal, the conveyor lines (which act as visual storage) are not increasing or decreasing.

The answer is to just go to the Assemblers and seeing if there's a full stack of plates inside of them and manually emptying it, letting the machine refill.

#

If it's a 3:2 ratio like he said then one "flush" of iron plates from the assemblers should clear any visual clogs.

#

And yea, it won't actually impact production. It'll look like there's too many plates but that's because the Constructors themselves are storing some plates too, and that number won't increase or decrease.

steel wharf
#

I know, I just think its annoying seeing backups even though all the numbers are good

exotic ledge
steel wharf
#

I guess I never realized there is no problem having too much stuff

#

It just looks better with everything smoth

fierce ruin
#

Is there actually a problem with overfeeding from a splitter or something? I figured if you split 60 off of 120 to a machine that needs 20, the rest of the line would just end up with 100/m

sinful vale
#

that is also the general foundation of how a manifold works

fierce ruin
#

okay I see people talking like it might be problematic or something was just curious

sinful vale
#

i mean, it does split 60 60, but once that the machine that takes 20 gets filled, it will only be able to take 20 and the other 40 will back flow into the original line

topaz hedge
#

I'm the opposite.. I like to see backups on belts feeding into machines, and some parts in their inventory, as long as it's not full and they're running at 100% I'm happy.. means I'm producing enough.

#

it's a visual indicator to me that I have a problem somewhere if I see empty belts.

glacial hemlock
#

Answers to your questions can be found here

#

Take note the game currently handles numbers with loose precision so expect some rounding errors when the game runs long enough

dusky dust
#

And but so: I finally got around to re-piping my 300oil->900plastic loop to not attempt to utilize 100% pipe flow (by piping in extra fluid) and the thing looks like it's quite happy now -- machines all at 100%, no dips in quite awhile now, outputting a solid 900/min.

#

Is there a clever belt compressor setup which is somehow capable of dealing with the inherently bursty nature of those recycled plastic refineries?

#

I was basically trying to get one solid mk5 (780/min) with the leftovers going to a secondary 120/min belt...

#

er, and I just realized I could get that pretty easily by just, y'know, using a mk2 belt on the overflows that I've been setting up.

#

Rather than just using mk5s for everything

#

Anyway, I was gonna say that the bursts were just occasionally overwhelming the system so that my overflow belt was getting above >120 and the intended-780 belt was having gaps

#

But yeah, I can just slap down a mk2 in there. Doy.

wind spade
#

Or you can just have two belts with 450 each 🤷

sinful vale
vast jungle
# fierce ruin okay I see people talking like it might be problematic or something was just cur...

If you don't like one production line blocking up the previous level you can always use a Smart Splitter between the two levels... just feed the overflow to a sink. This makes sure the next level is always saturated but never clogs up the previous level.

This is also a great way to feed some "leftovers" of a production level to a storage bin if its too little that its difficult to get out of the belt with splitters

glacial hemlock
#

@dusky dust belt compressor is on the wiki, you can use the search functionwhy_so_snutt

shadow kite
#

belt... compressor?

#

that sounds so wrong unless it's pneumatically driven belt

oblique hollow
#

the compressor is basically just an integer divider:
Split the input so that x number of output belts are full, and leave the remainder on another output belt

sullen cloud
#

I got a specific question for you, McGalleon

oblique hollow
#

oh? me?
It better be Pipes

sullen cloud
#

yeah

oblique hollow
#

well, shoot

sullen cloud
#

I have 10 unpackers at 100% feeding 20 referineries at (supposed to be) 100%

oblique hollow
#

oh, now this is a familiar premise.
Keep talking, let see where this goes....

sullen cloud
#

MkII pipe is connecting all 10 packagers and then leads just downwards to the 20 refineries

oblique hollow
#

hah.
Is it a manifold?

sullen cloud
#

Yeah

oblique hollow
#

Then, im afraid, there is nothing i can do

sullen cloud
#

Why

oblique hollow
#

Ive tested this case with @twin jacinth countless times

#

at some point, full mk 2 pipes simply lose flow rate

#

Its an issue with Mk 2 Pipes

twin jacinth
#

here we go again 🙂

oblique hollow
#

And the best way to avoid it is to use as little splits and as little MK 2 Pipes as possible

sullen cloud
#

Last 2-3 refineries are not fed fully while the first 2-3 unpackers do not fully output fuel (canisters are not stuck)

oblique hollow
#

Yeah, its an exact replica of what Gabor had

#

or very close

#

There is no solution. Unless Gabor found something.

sullen cloud
#

and I can replicate it (have several setups like that)

#

Do you know if he did report it to the devs somewhere?

oblique hollow
#

I think there was a post on the QA website that he linked to me. I simply upvoted it. Thats the best we can do.

twin jacinth
#

So what exactly are you doing? splitting fuel to 20 refineries?

sullen cloud
#

Yeah

oblique hollow
#

Oh god, flashback...

twin jacinth
#

ok, this is what I had the best results with:

#

dont merge the fuel output of the 10 packagers. Merge 5-5 into 2 mk1 pipes. This is 1 part of the "solution". Thje other part is that dont split the fuel in a manifold style to the 10 refineries. Instead, load balance it, by 3-4-3.

oblique hollow
#

so the load balancing really was needed after the packagers?

#

huh

#

So.... Manifold for small pipe splitting
and Balancer for Large Pipe Splitting

sullen cloud
#

ok, gonna try that. But do you guys found out if it’s the MK II pipes or rather trying to pump at the limit of 600?

oblique hollow
#

Ye. We had the exact same setup, pretty much. Pipe was at 600

#

last 3 were starving

#

NOTHING helped.

twin jacinth
#

To be honest I got VERY tired mentally; so many scenarios were tested that I dont know if it was tested with mk1-manifold splitting. What I know is that the way I described its working and I dont wanna touch it.

sullen cloud
#

Got it 😆

oblique hollow
twin jacinth
#

BUT since a reddit post also described this issue and the OP tested the manifold, and result was that manifold is not ok.

oblique hollow
#

Alright, so, if possible, i will recommend people to build pipe balancers when a large number of splits is required

sullen cloud
#

What I can share is that (several) pumps do not help with the flow issue regarding this setup

oblique hollow
twin jacinth
#

I strongly believe, manifold is something you should avoid. I already converted the feeding of my refineries with HOR to 3-4-3 balanced

torpid robin
#

Say you had a 600 pipe . Could you split at the start . The manifold the 300 . Then inject the other half of that . Halfway along the line as it’s running out ?

twin jacinth
#

also my water extractor setup.

sullen cloud
#

do you have the Link to your Q+A post, Gabor?

#

I am thinking of messaging Snutt after the holiday break about this issue

twin jacinth
#

I didnt create there a post, there is already one.

#

or mybe even more

oblique hollow
#

hold, on, ill search for the one i upvoted

twin jacinth
#

unfortunately it doesnt have too much upvotes

#

so if CSS rely on upvotes, then it wont get too much attention

sullen cloud
#

yeah, that's why I am thinking of bringing it to their attention by additionally messaging them

oblique hollow
#

Nah, not good. They dont like that

sullen cloud
#

well, it helped and was no issue in the past regarding blocked train station output while docking

oblique hollow
#

They prefer having it be with the QA site only. Ive made a few posts myself there on other issues.
They are busy with Update 4 at the moment. Maybe then they'll look into other issues

twin jacinth
#

jesus, some of my settings ingame got reset, like fow, invert mouse, wtf. anyway.

sullen cloud
#

sure. But I do think that issue is quite important, sounds worth fixing before Update 4 when a lot more people will found out that these setups are broken

oblique hollow
#

The problem with DM'ing snutt or jace is they have to look through all the discord messages they receive to find out what people even wanted.

twin jacinth
#

I asked this twice in Snutt's stream, but no attention to this question.

oblique hollow
#

and then they have to write that issue down somewhere for Dylan or idk who to look into

sullen cloud
#

in Snutt's own stream? Not the Dev one?

oblique hollow
#

Probably the dev Stream.

#

its mostly Snutt doing answers tho xd

twin jacinth
#

I donno, on the one where Galeeon also asked it, so alltogether we asked 3 times

oblique hollow
#

yea that was the CSS Dev stream last tuesday

twin jacinth
empty hemlock
sullen cloud
#

Tbh, there's not a lot of visible activity regarding bugs of the Q+A

#

i.e. feedback from devs' side

#

Lost a lot of momentum after the initial 4-6 weeks of the new site

#

anyways, thanks guys. If you're interested I could share with what working solution I come up in the end

twin jacinth
#

absolutely

sand garnet
#

a lack of visible activity is not the same as a lack of invisible activity

twin jacinth
#

@empty hemlock well, most peaople wont even notice this issue. Im sure everybody has this problem

sullen cloud
#

pretty sure it's a general problem

vast jungle
#

does anyone know how much storage a Splitter has? I see a splitter with both outputs blocked, but it still collects input...

shadow kite
#

i think it's 10

amber oar
#

Gonna get 1000 splitters for a mass storage

sullen cloud
vast jungle
#

thank you... that explains why my new Motor Factory manifold is filling up so slowly

sullen cloud
#

@oblique hollow @twin jacinth I found a solution and I think I know what's the underlying issue

#

I did just split the 10 unpackagers into 2x 5 and each pipeline of the two feeds 10 refineries (all still MK2)

#

I think that the reason for the bug is that the pipeline junction does not allow for a flowrate > 300, which be would needed to fill all 20 refineries

twin jacinth
#

give a lot of time for it, several hours

vast jungle
#

why should a junction allow for more flow-rate than a pipe?

topaz hedge
#

I love how this discussion is completely relevant to why my base just lost power lol

sullen cloud
topaz hedge
#

I'm using all mk1 pipes and my refineries starved..

twin jacinth
#

Im just elling this, because I also believed for a scenario, that omg, this is the one, it finally works. Then a couple of hours later I saw, its starving the same way as it did before. Fluids need a lot of time to settle down, like several hours. In the end of my test I was runing them for like 5 hours, because I knew, I cant trust them if I test them only for shorter time periods

sullen cloud
#

I see. I will keep you updated. Just saying that I have been testing/ bug fixing that shit for several days now

twin jacinth
#

just like we did 🙂

sullen cloud
#

9 months 🤨

twin jacinth
#

yes

#

not all comments are that old, and still seems to be relevant. I also had success with the mentioned 3-4-3 split.

#

I got rid of my mk2 pipes everywhere I could.

topaz hedge
#

well, it looks like my options are hope they fiscit, or rework my tf plant :/

sullen cloud
#

I have a 216 fuel gen setup running at 65% power draw fed by two MKII pipes

#

So far, these haven’t been drained

vast jungle
#

I just blew my powergrid... it seems I disconnected the pumps for half of the water, and it took HOURS until it became relevant 😉

twin jacinth
#

@sullen cloud if you are feeding fuel gens, you less likely will see the problem because the fuel gens are not using that much fuel as they are not runing 100%. So thats not a good way to test it.

sullen cloud
#

I know

#

It was directed at wolfgrim with the refineries issue

twin jacinth
#

ah ok

sullen cloud
#

I am testing/ bug fixing with my 100% 600/min fuel setups for plastic/ rubber production

twin jacinth
#

yupyup

topaz hedge
#

my issue shouldn't be the fuel gens, Its where I'm making tf. it is what it is I guess.

twin jacinth
#

@sullen cloud my setup in that regard is: 600 oil -> 1600 fuel (diluted combo) -> 300+300+200 plastic and rubber (not counting the polymer resin because its not interesting from the problem point of view). The problem happens even at HOR split, and also at water split.

topaz hedge
#

I'll try reworking the manifolds and try your 3,3, 4 split and see if it fixes it

twin jacinth
#

3-4-3 ! based on the reddit post it matters, where the 4 is 🙂

vast jungle
#

OMG... what the hell is a Heavy Modular Frame and why does it require that much stuff? 😉

topaz hedge
#

:p I manifolded the everliving out of my setup though.. so far it's making enough fuel to hold ~90% of it's capacity. It's 80 refineries manifolded with 2 feeds on each end and 1 feed in the center.

📎 unknown.png
vast jungle
#

okay, Wiki error... Heavy Modular Frame cannot be "Tier 4" if it needs a Manufacturer

#

Phh... I can delay this a little bit

#

(I REALLY want Heavy Encased Frame for this)

topaz hedge
#

heavy encased frames, the one's that use pipe are nice.

vast jungle
#

I thought about adding "Heavy Modular Frames" to my new Steel floor... but without this Alt it would need 300+ Iron (and other things) just to run 1 Manufacturer

upbeat tide
#

Anything that uses steel pipes over beams is good

#

Just because your steel ingots goes farther

vast jungle
#

Okay... so no HMF for me at the moment...

is there anything "MUST HAVE" from Steel except Pipes, Beams and Encased Beams?

#

hmm... I am confused... I need HMFs for a Manufacturer... and I need a Manufacturer to produce HMFs?

sullen cloud
#

Work bench

shadow kite
#

fun fact nobody asked for: there are at least 132 computers to be found at the drop pods. So you can unlock trains and that leaves you with 82 computers to be used for locomotives, freight/fluid platforms and stations.
(This I discovered on a save where I have not yet unlocked the recipe to build computers)

upbeat tide
#

It used to be worse. To make a foundry you needed steel beams... they may adjust the manufacturer build requirement, we will see

dusky dust
#

@glacial hemlock Yeah, I'd tried out the wiki's compressor layout after my own wasn't dealing with the burstiness, but that had the same issue too (until I realized I could just limit either of them with an appropriately-spec'd belt)

#

@wind spade Hah, yeah, I thought multiple times while looking at it that I should just balance 'em to 450 each, but y'know how an idea can just get lodged in your head... :)

#

@oblique hollow @twin jacinth @sullen cloud In my own testing, making use of a full 600 (for mk2) or a full 300 (for mk1) was under some circumstance a recipe for eventual losses in the pipe, regardless of how it was piped

#

Doing a "balancer" style layout into 10 refineries was better than a manifold arrangement, in terms of how long it takes for the problem to become apparent, but after N hours it would start starving refineries, too.

#

Possibly it's just something to do with the number of splits involved, regardless of layout, 'cause my 6x Wet Concrete right next door seems to have no efficiency loss with a full 600

#

But nothing I tried over on my oil loop ever worked, in the end (even though it might take hours to become apparent). I'd recommend just piping a bit more fluid over, and not utilizing the full flow rate that's theoretically in the pipe

#

As I say, I'd seen it with a plain ol' mk1, too, so it's not just the mk2s.

upbeat tide
#

I am not sure how you are doing fuel, but this is the best way

📎 image0.png
#

Best to use mk2 piping, but doable with mk1’s

#

For the diluted packaged fuel step, I like a in-line system.

Packaged water > diluted > unpack

In a straight line with mk1 belts connecting

dusky dust
#

Yeah, for sure -- those HOR refineries in particular are what I'd spent so much time debugging

#

You need to pipe in >300/m oil if you want to be sure that the HOR refineries don't end up starving one (or even two) of them, eventually

sullen cloud
#

tbh, I don't think there's such thing as an intended efficiency loss

#

that's not how the game works

dusky dust
#

You don't need a lot of overhead, but trying to max out a pipe, whether mk1 or mk2, at least with that many splits (as I say, maybe those things are fine with fewer refineries, like, that 6x Wet Concrete I mentioned seems to be 100% solid to me), will always lead to phantom fluid loss

#

Oh, for sure -- my bet is that there's some weird bug. And maybe it's just related to my framerate, or how busy my CPU is. Maybe someone on a different (better) computer wouldn't have the problem?

#

I dunno. I got tired of debugging it though and just upped my fluid delivery, and I'm not maxing out any pipes on the delivery side, anymore. :)

sullen cloud
#

my CPU is utilized at 40%

dusky dust
#

Yeah, my comp never seems over burdened, but who knows what's going on with factory ticks behind the scenes

#

I've got a fairly modest rig, is all, so I wouldn't want to say for sure if performance is at all related or not

sullen cloud
#

I already found out that there isn't a loss

#

it's getting stuck in the preceeding machines' inventory

upbeat tide
#

Because each item is rendered and it adds up

dusky dust
#

marcnesium - Ah, we might be talking about separate issues then; mine is easily (for me) replicated with just an oil extractor going right into ten HOR refineries. No "preceeding machines" to complicate stuff. :)

#

Verios - Yeah, so I've heard. :)

sullen cloud
#

well, an oil extractor is also a preceeding machine

dusky dust
#

Heh, fair enough

#

But the symptoms of the fluid loss that I'm talking about is an absolutely solid reading of (in the most basic instance) 300/min fluid on the pipe from the extractor, prior to the first split(s)

#

Like it does not waver one bit

#

And then, depending on the specific piping layout, all ten HOR refineries function perfectly for anywhere from 40min to a few hours

#

At which point one (or more, depending on the piping layout) suddenly starts dipping in its input

#

Again, with absolutely no change in the input flow rate

shadow kite
#

what is HOR ?

dusky dust
#

So fluid's just getting lost. As I say, the only thing I've found that actually works reliably is piping in more fluid than you actually need, so that you're not attempting to use the theoretical max of the pipe

#

Heavy Oil Residue; the first step in the most-efficient oil->(plastic|rubber|turbofuel) loops

shadow kite
#

all these shortnames. somebody should make a list for them

dusky dust
#

The one fluid delivery variation I admit I didn't try was feeding the refineries from the top. I'd pretty thoroughly gone through just about every combination of feeding from the bottom + from the same level, though.

sullen cloud
#

The example you're referring to, with the HORs. Is that with MKI pipes?

dusky dust
#

On the HOR side, I've tried it with:

  1. A full mk2 which gets split into 2x mk1s right before the HOR step (one half going to a 300->900 plastic loop, the other intending to go to a 300-900 rubber loop)
  2. A full mk2 which splitsinto 2x mk2s, with a valve set to limit flow to 300/min on each split
  3. A full mk1 (no splits involved at all)
#

And I've tried all sorts of variants with extra valves, pumps, and fluid buffers, just in case.

#

I was seeing the exact same problem with a full mk2 going to 10 Packaged Water refineries, as well, but basically all my testing was on the HOR side since that's so much easier to isolate

sullen cloud
#

so just to be sure. Variant 2) with splitting a MK II pipe was also with 300/min crude oil and 10 HOR refineries?

dusky dust
#

Variants 1 and 2 were being supplied by a 600/min mk2 (250% OC'd extractor on a pure node), intending to be the sole oil source for both my rubber + plastic loops

#

They both had that junction which would've sent 300/min to each -- in my original piping I'd just split the mk2 into two mk1s -- one of the first attempts I did, I'd replaced those mk1s with mk2s limited by valves instead

#

(And then finally I'd dropped it to just a single 300/min mk1, just to remove as many variables as possible)

#

In all cases, the input into the 10 HOR refinery always showed a super-solid 300/min; no losses there at all.

#

(and again, it'd take generally nearly an hour for any of the refineries to show even a hint of fluid loss)

sullen cloud
#

well, thanks for the insights. Makes my own testing going forward easier.

dusky dust
#

Yeah, good luck! :)

#

The main frustration there is that it often takes so damned long to see a problem start to develop

#

So it's this endless loop of wait 5 mins, check all the refineries, wait 5 mins, ....

#

Get some good background music on, is my advice. :)

sullen cloud
#

It's not the first time nailing an issue down in SF (after 1.5k hours in total) 😄

dusky dust
#

Doing a "balancer" style pipe input was definitely the best of everything I'd tried

#

Next best was a manifold but slapping a fluid buffer at the "end" (and waiting for that to fill up before letting the refineries process)

sullen cloud
#

but it's one of the most tedious ones tbh

dusky dust
#

Splitting the input to feed from both ends was far worse than any of the other methods

#

Unfortunately I didn't actually write down all the things I'd tried. :D

sullen cloud
#

well, my whole setup is 'working' since several days, thus no long wait until things get filled/ satisfied

oblique hollow
#

still a mess though. all of this

sullen cloud
#

at least the empirical data hints that the issue is not sitting in front of a player's computer. that's something

oblique hollow
#

it definitely is some part inside the whole system of pipes. Maybe its the Equation. Maybe its the Junctions. Maybe its a combined issue.

twin jacinth
#

jesus, I took a nap, woke up, and still this? 🙂

sullen cloud
#

How long have you been dealing with that stuff when you ran into it?

#

I am still in the process of picking up 😉

frosty owl
twin jacinth
oblique hollow
#

This is but a ticking timebomb Vencam

dusky dust
#

I do feel like there's some kind of voodoo which would let you get it working

#

Like just some quirk of exactly how the thing gets built or whatever.

oblique hollow
#

Wanna know some voodoo?
2 Mk 2 pipes on a slope

dusky dust
#

And I feel like whatever this problem is is relatively new, 'cause I can't imagine there wouldn't be mentions of it on the wiki if folks had observed this back when the initial 300->900 loops were being discovered/documented

frosty owl
twin jacinth
#

over 30 mins is nothing.

oblique hollow
dusky dust
#

But yeah, like: all my fluid-manifolded refineries that are working are build north-to-south, whereas the ones I'm having problems with are all west-to-east

#

LIke that would be bizarre if that somehow mattered, but maybe it does?

twin jacinth
#

@frosty owl give us a save, where it is working flawlessly.

oblique hollow
#

... i feel like i heard a similar issue before. A looong time ago

dusky dust
#

Or like maybe my oil manifolds are right on some chunk-or-whatever border, and there happens to be a bit of math weirdness that can accumulate based on that

#

I agree I am absolutely just grasping at straws here, but I do believe folks when they say they've got working methods.

frosty owl
oblique hollow
dusky dust
#

As I say, the folks initially putting together those 300->900 loops must've noticed this, if it had been a problem with Update 3 dropped

#

Anyway, off into the Real World I go for a bit. :)

sullen cloud
#

the 300->900 loop is just math

#

you don't need to play the game for this

twin jacinth
#

@oblique hollow Imagine we get a save where it is working fine 🙂

oblique hollow
#

eugh

sullen cloud
fierce ruin
#

meh, it doesn't work

#

wait, the default headlift is not 0? 🤔

bleak coral
#

pipes and buffers actually behave the same, so you know how buffers give their height + a little bit of headlift, so do pipes

#

and then headlift tapers off instead of being a straight cutoff

#

@oblique hollow didn't you do some bullshit of getting pipes up 2m ramps without pumps? I know you're always messing with fluids in wizardy, dark magic ways

oblique hollow
#

i did more than that. I bullshitted my way 60 m up, without pumps

bleak coral
vast jungle
#

most likely its dark liquid magic... 😉

#

(I am at the moment looking at the numbers for Tier 5 production... Computer creation looks a little bit insane)

fierce ruin
#

ah, the pipe was plugged to the input pipe of the pump instead of the output of the pump

oblique hollow
#

Pipe have a default head lift of about 1.4 m

#

And Buffers have a default of 0m, actually

#

so you need to fill the buffer about 10% before it can output fluid

fierce ruin
#

but I'm at 2m and the fluid buffer fills up completely

#

at 4m nothing happens

#

heck

oblique hollow
#

without a picture im afraid i have no idea what you are trying to do xd

sullen cloud
fierce ruin
#

wait nvm it fills up again, wtf is happening

vast jungle
oblique hollow
vast jungle
#

Without Alts 30 computers per minute looks nice... if you ignore the amount of stuff you are dealing with 😉

fierce ruin
#

oh, it works!

#

265/400m3

vast jungle
#

390 Iron Ore, 2610 Crude Oil and 1470 Copper => 30 Computers... all components running at 100%

oblique hollow
#

duh, this should work without any issues

fierce ruin
#

so the default headlift is like 10m or something

oblique hollow
#

of a full buffer, its 8 m

oblique hollow
bleak coral
#

the pump is off, I think the test is supposed to be if an unpowered pump still resets headlift

fierce ruin
#

and of a 66% filled buffer? 😄

oblique hollow
#

66% = (Volume inside / Maximum) * Buffer Height
So for a small buffer, 66% would be 8m * 66%

#

so about 5,3m

fierce ruin
#

wait, if I'm right I should get 200/400 if I rise the buffer 2m more

#

I'm gonna try that, brb

oblique hollow
#

The Pump nullifies Headlift when unpowered, be careful with that

fierce ruin
#

that's exactly what I'm trying out

#

seems like "null" is 10

oblique hollow
#

oh, you dont believe it?
Just Put a Pump (powered) behind an unpowered Pump

#

and then try to have it go over a 2 m rise

fierce ruin
#

why is it full now

#

ok this is black magic

oblique hollow
#

empty the pipe system after each try

fierce ruin
oblique hollow
#

tried using vertical pipes yet

fierce ruin
#

nvm, you were right about emptying the whole system

#

took time to fills up but got stuck

#

the pipe going to the buffer is half full, so about 2m

oblique hollow
#

so between 1 and 2 m
about 1.4, the default

fierce ruin
#

and when at level the buffer is stuck at 255, awesome

oblique hollow
#

the buffer itself will need to have about 50/400 in order to have 1.4m

fierce ruin
#

this gonna be a nice priority system

oblique hollow
#

for priority, just use a valve before a junction

reef ermine
#

anyone got a schematic for a 1:25 balancer?

fierce ruin
#

wait, how well does this work?

#

like if A and B are both completely maxed out (300/mn)

#

will A flow be 0?

bleak coral
#

whut? how does that work lol

#

I feel like I might have been there when you figured this out, and I still don't get it lol

oblique hollow
#

The Valve simply wants to output more than an unregulated pipe

#

lemme see if it works at 300

reef ermine
#

wait never mind, I'm dumb and just figured out I can do 5x1:5 Balancers

bleak coral
#

math rolljace

fierce ruin
oblique hollow
#

lol works at 300 flow

fierce ruin
#

(1/5)²

#

oh nice, I'm gonna look at that then

reef ermine
#

no, a single 1:5 balancer, with each of it's outputs going into a 1:5 balncer

#

that's a 1:25 Balancer I think

oblique hollow
reef ermine
#

simple but there's definitely a cheaper design I think

bleak coral
#

adjust clock speeds and do a 1:26 balancer? how bulky is a 1:5 balancer?

oblique hollow
#

The extractor on the right is completely backed up and wont flow at all

#

so: valve works as priority input

bleak coral
#

interesting, what's the application for that?

fierce ruin
#

the priority? alumina and acid

bleak coral
#

oh wait I thought of one: recycling loops

#

yeah, prioritize the recycled liquid

oblique hollow
bleak coral
#

guess that wouldn't scale up too well if you need >600 water or sulfuric acid, though I guess you could isolate the systems to be 600 or less

oblique hollow
#

It still works with mk 2 pipes

fierce ruin
#

lmao if you put a valve between two half-filled buffers one will empty in the other one XD

#

basically a pump but with no headlift

oblique hollow
#

.... yep.
Freaking fluid update

bleak coral
#

valves do have the property of not resetting the headlift like pumps do

oblique hollow
#

i had a full buffer and an empty one. connected both and had a valve inbetween. Full buffer transferred everything into the empty one

bleak coral
#

physiks

oblique hollow
#

Before the fluid update, everything worked nicely

bleak coral
#

sorry, *fisiks

oblique hollow
#

Now its all in shambles

#

I swear, every day, new issues arise

bleak coral
#

flude fsiks

oblique hollow
#

Fluisiks

bleak coral
#

rounding errors are a bitch, which I'm blaming at least one problem on

oblique hollow
fierce ruin
#

plz ficsit fix fisiks

bleak coral
#

clearly the solution is to use long doubles, or make a long double type themselves 😛

#

fuck our memory, we can buy more sticks and get 5950x for transfer speed

oblique hollow
bleak coral
#

witchcraft

vast jungle
fierce ruin
#

@oblique hollow I had to put another valve with a 50m3 flow limit to make it work but now everything is alright :D

📎 unknown.png
#

thanks

oblique hollow
#

huh, ok

dull sable
#

Anyone know how to make greenys calc maximize everything? I entered what I wanted and all the outputs were 93.xx and resources not maxed

sullen cloud
#

use tabs 'input' and 'recipes' on left side

dull sable
#

That doesnt do anything. All input is at map max and recipes selected. It changes nothing

hot ginkgo
#

@dull sable you have to select maximize next to each part as well.

#

Its under a drop down menu.

bleak coral
#

when you use the maximize function on everything it equalizes their output, and you have to play with the slider to change the ratios of their outputs

#

think about what you're asking it to do, maximize multiple things

#

there's many solutions to the that problem, so you have to give it something more to work with to know what to prioritize first

#

for example with 90 iron ore per minute and vanilla recipes both 40ppm iron plates + 30ppm iron rods and 20ppm iron plates + 60ppm iron rods are solutions to maximizing the use of ore

#

there has to some other input to decide on the solution to choose, so the way it does it is with those sliders and relative ppm

topaz hedge
#

how does the math work for trains as far as transfer rate for platforms?

wind spade
#

transfers whole inventory instantly, but has ~25 seconds animation during which the platform doesn't accept nor output items

topaz hedge
#

so if I need to move 1620 rubber and 900 plastic a min.. I can just go by belts to platform(s)?

#

so 4 cars/platforms for rubber and 2 cars/platforms for plastic?

wind spade
#

that also depends on how long is your travel time 🙂

topaz hedge
#

travel time is null. lets say it's instant for now for simplicity that's about how it works? realistically, probably 1-3 min travel

wind spade
#

instant travel time would mean that the loading animation plays permanently and therefore no items could be transferred 😄

topaz hedge
#

so, if your train line is shorter than 25 seconds travel. it breaks? lol

wind spade
#

well no, because the train also waits the 25 seconds there

#

here's the table, how often does a train need to come to the station to keep up with X belts depending on Y stack size

topaz hedge
#

so that says for 2x mk4 a train has to arrive at station no later than 3m20s?

wind spade
#

yeah, that's for 2 full mk4 belts coming in one platform

topaz hedge
#

alright. ty so much greeny

dusky dust
#

Yeah, for more capacity on the trains, you'd just have to increase your platform/freight-car space

#

I have observed that at least with sending mk5 belts over a train route, there does seem to be some real tiny bit of inefficiency that the train introduces, even if you've correctly built around the loading/unloading time thing. Like my 780/min belts were getting closer to 777 or so

#

Pretty small beans, though

peak basalt
#

you better be careful saying trains are #2 to belts.... that'll get some real heat in chat.

#

lmao

sand garnet
#

yeah they're far superior for long distancrd

#

distances

peak basalt
#

i disagree

#

but i use them anyway just for looks

#

you cant beat belts cuz its a bottleneck into machines.

wind spade
#

it all depends on your definitions, but even if you can't beat belts, you're not worse either

sand garnet
#

the main benefit is simply time spent laying belts across the map

peak basalt
#

assuming you dont have any issues with all the bugs with trains, thats true

wind spade
#

same could be said about belts 🤷‍♂️

sand garnet
#

need to do 2 belts of 5km instead of simply adding 1 freight wagon

#

also, trains are pretty reliable if you know what not to do

peak basalt
#

tom, you have a train that goes the wrong way sometimes and just stops... thats not reliable

torpid robin
#

Oh tell me . What are the things not to do ? Please lol

sand garnet
#

hence I said 'pretty reliable' and not 'perfect'

peak basalt
#

lol alright

sand garnet
#

but even then, I'd know how to have a workaround for it

#

I just dont want to use it

peak basalt
#

whats the work around?

sand garnet
#

having a loop after the wrong turn to guide it back towards the correct track

peak basalt
#

i dont think that would actually work,.. unless its after the station the other train was going towards

sand garnet
#

it does, I've tested it

#

I just loop it back towards the correct track

peak basalt
#

cuz it would just miss that junction due to the same 2nd train

sand garnet
#

that way it wont stop and, even on the wrong track, has a way to get back onto the right track

#

its a failsafe, basically

peak basalt
#

its missed the first switch cuz it was right behind a 2nd train, right? and now its still right behind that same 2nd train, so its going to miss the next switch too.

#

maybe it will, idk

sand garnet
#

its not right behind it usually

topaz hedge
#

man, I'm trying to get trains to work for me on my save to move some very important resourses.. plz don't tell me about the bugs yet lol

sand garnet
#

because it will lose speed after taking the wrong direction

peak basalt
#

i dont think it will

#

but thats guessing

sand garnet
#

which in turn causes the distance between the 2 trains to increase

sullen cloud
#

When you’re saying ‚tested‘ this means being in rendering distance?

sand garnet
#

yes

#

but i cant tell you if it was a proper enough test

#

just that it hasnt happened to me yet since I made the change

sullen cloud
#

I have copied the turnarounds of Scanvoice

#

So far no issues at all

peak basalt
#

the only workaround i can think of, is to not use switches, and no trains share any station. but that sounds very boring.

wispy cradle
#

The most valuable resource of this game (and life) is the time you spend.

twin jacinth
#

@topaz hedge go ahead with trains 🙂 dont let yourself discouraged 🙂 I set up trains recently and they are amazing, its fun to even look at them go brrrrrrr

peak basalt
#

@topaz hedge trains are 100% worth it just for the fun alone.

dusky dust
#

Yeah, trains are great. :)

twin jacinth
dusky dust
#

There's definitely some caveats if you're putting a train in the middle of a production line, but they're well workable

wispy cradle
twin jacinth
sullen cloud
#

lul

rustic talon
wind spade
#

idk, I don't feel like machine-level planning is ever needed in satisfactory 🤔

topaz hedge
#

I mean, I've always thought they were cool, but the whole multiplayer issue (some of which I've noticed were recently fiscit'd) and I'm looking at another 3 mk4 belts for rubber for the new production line, if trains could simply that by having the stations split and balance the belts going to the new line, and old.. that's worth it

rustic talon
#

@wind spade to me it makes it easier

wind spade
#

how so? it's enough to know that you need to 5 buildings, why would I have to place them all down individually, including mergers and splitters

rustic talon
#

I just prefer to build the system myself rather than have a website do it for me, you have to think of those that would rather do it themselves and see what it would work like for the way they want to buildit

wind spade
#

but you still don't see how it will look. It's just a graph visual, not 3D real representation

#

unless I misunderstood

topaz hedge
#

if my train doesn't move enough because it takes too long between stations, can I just add another train with the same timetable?

wind spade
#

sure

topaz hedge
#

and that'll more or less cut the time between stations in half so I'll be under the 3:20 for 2 mk4 belts?

peak basalt
#

Maybe

#

Trains still have a top speed. But if it's starting out too slow, another engine may help.

#

Or if going up a hill it slows down too much, a 2nd or 3rd engine could help that too.

topaz hedge
#

I'm sorta out of room at my factory station.. there's a bunch of stuff there lol I might be able to squeeze in another platform for a 3rd station

#

2nd* 3rd ain't gonna happen. most of my run is flat.

#

but I have to have that 960/min coming out of each station lol

peak basalt
#

And only 2 freight cars?

topaz hedge
#

6 cars.

#

6 or 7.. I already forgot >.>

peak basalt
#

Oh... I'd run 2 engines minimum if I was you. 1 engine per 4 cars.

#

Is this a loop or terminal system?

wind spade
#

1 per 5 is good for any track, 1 per 20 is good for no hills track

peak basalt
#

If its a loop system, you can toss any extra engines on the rear of the train and not have to change any stations.

exotic ledge
#

And it'd increase the speed?

peak basalt
#

They still have a max speed, but yes it would help the same way as if they were on the front.

#

They still need 1 engine on the front, just the extras can be on the back.

#

Or middle, or w/e.

bleak coral
#

cursed train layout:
<>===>>==<=><

topaz hedge
#

there's a few hills. they're not too bad. but it's 7 cars. i think imma go with it and see how it does. it's a loop system.

bleak coral
#

I mean if you only run 1 engine for 7 cars, you're gonna stall and reverse on a hill of any decent length and probably slow down a bunch even on small hills

#

there's disagreement on the exact ratio, but 7 is definitely too much for 1 engine

upbeat tide
#

My habit is 2 engines for anything more than 4 freight cars. Maybe overkill, but... 🤷‍♂️

fierce ruin
#

cursed train layout be like
++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>+>->>+[<]<-]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+.>++.

upbeat tide
#

Wtf is that?

fierce ruin
#

I bet at least one of the many people reading this will know 😄

upbeat tide
#

Lol I have about 50 active trains (think) 😄

#

All are <_> style

#

Even if its a loop I still add a kabosse engine for...reasons

rustic talon
#

@wind spade What I'm trying to say is that having them little machines and such that I can place on a grid.... especially with Manifolding makes it a whole bunch easier... that website offers that to a certain point... I just wish that they would update the code to include the now updated items of Satisfactory.

#

.Your website from my knowledge will not let me place the mines, machines, mergers, splitters, and storage. I just want to be able to place those things to make it an easier representation for myself

wind spade
#

I'm not sure I understand, especially with manifold, it's just a repetitive schema, why would I have to put the machines in a grid in that tool, when I can do it ingame

upbeat tide
#

If you wish to build yourself physical topologies, I recommend draw.io

#

Or any other diagram program if you have access to a paid one

topaz hedge
#

hm

upbeat tide
#

Greeny’s tool is for the logical topology

topaz hedge
#

does the kaboose engine need an empty platform in a loop system?

upbeat tide
#

No but it helps for planning the spacing

rustic talon
#

Listen I'm not saying his tool is bad, I just want a website capable of the same thing that is Satisgraphory.

#

That is it.

upbeat tide
#

Closest is SCIM but I dislike that production planner

wind spade
#

we know you don't say it. We just ask you what purpose would the schematic placement serve

rustic talon
#

It is just what I want Greeny, it makes it easier for some that rather manifold.

wind spade
#

either you want to actually plan the base and then you need more than satisgraphtory (you need to include machine sizes and belt stuff) or you just want number of buildings

topaz hedge
#

Speaking of greeny's wonderful tool.

wind spade
#

yeah, especially for manifold, it's the same thing all over again, I'd say you can do that without planning

topaz hedge
#

I actually don't have anything to add but.. I did run into an issue with it, would you like me to dm you greeny?

rustic talon
#

You can yes, but it is easier for me to plan on the website with a manifold, which does show resources a minute, miner MK1, MK2, etc...

upbeat tide
#

The only thing you need to plan for a manifold is how the segments will be broken down. Such as my Fused quickwire setups are broken down into groups of 20. Farther broken down into segments 5 each

rustic talon
#

It is much easier for me to plan in advance though, this ABOVE makes it easier.....as I placed the machines and everything myself.

#

The number are incorrect on the example, but it just makes it easier is all

upbeat tide
#

As I said closest is SCIM’s production map tool but I PERSONALLY hate it

rustic talon
#

I will give it a try.

upbeat tide
#

For a physical diagram its convoluted

topaz hedge
#

yeah.. scim is great, but in my opinion it's the wrong tool for production planning

#

it does have the power useage stat, which is kinda cool but that's about it

upbeat tide
#

@rustic talon

This is how I plan stuff.

Going to use quickwire as an example. I need for example 12000 quickwire for a large project. How will I break this down? Instead of starting at the total I start looking at the best way to break it down into managable chunks

In this case that is groups of 1800 quickwire using the fused quickwire alt. This total needs a easier to understand 750 copper ingots and 150 caterium ingots in 20 assemblers

#

Basiclly, look for the balance based on the most efficient way you can produce the intermediate items for that product

#

Based on the above example, this small setup is the cleanest way for a endgame quickwire mass build. Makes it much easier to set it up

#

Trying to explain a way to go from logic to physical

topaz hedge
#

gd 12k quickwire a min

rustic talon
#

Very nice, I will try to set one up like this.

upbeat tide
#

My philosophy is to figure out what you want to make. Maybe its an end goal like 60 super computers a min. If you look at a logical map for that its daunting.

Next I would break it doen into each component to make the process less horrible. I then look at the common material. Quickwire, silica, copper sheets, ingots, steel, rubber, plastic, etc and use those as my next main focus. How do I get all this stuff efficiently? Then I use a tool like Greeny’s or Daniel’s to look into that single product. How much will I gst out of a node of copper in the pure alt? How does that total effect fused quickwire like in the example above? Thats how I get to a managable chunk that is as efficient as possible. In the quickwire case, the output is belts of 450 a min.

#

And just use that strategy throughout the build. Takes forever but the planning really does help make something daunting less so

#

And hope that makes sense. If not can try to explain differently

rustic talon
#

I guess I just do better with a logical map.

#

IT looks daunting to some, but to me it is easier with a logical map.

upbeat tide
#

Yea totals for intermediates in endgame builds is daunting, but if broken down into small chunks it is just alot of repetition

#

And now that mk2 pipes exist, large scale pure alt builds are alot simpler to setup too

#

Less having to deal with that 300m3 pipe limit issue

rustic talon
#

I used the satisgraphotry thing to my current point which is maximizing the efficiency of motors, Automated Wiring, and Versatile Framework all in one build.

upbeat tide
#

I would break that into 3 seperate builds, but keep the total of any shared ingredient

rustic talon
#

Well I want the three to be in the same build.... which is what I have done for quite a few things... all the way to Stators and Industrial Encased Beams

upbeat tide
#

I mean treat it as 3 seperate builds to keep the diagram size managable

rustic talon
#

You would have to see my world to understand.

upbeat tide
#

But keep the shared products as the full total

rustic talon
#

Ah so treat it as separate rather than together, but share the resources between them

upbeat tide
#

Just in terms of the diagram to keep it as simple to follow as possible

#

Basiclly break it down into segments

fierce ruin
#

if i can make a comment

#

what would be helpful for layout design if the person ( like my self ) can see what they want to do before building it in game

#

@torpid robin only thing is you would need to draw up each building through what ever program etc

torpid robin
#

how do you mean draw up each building?

#

like what are you trying to do?

fierce ruin
#

i mean lets say a draw square and label it specfically to what you want

torpid robin
#

this program lets you do that

fierce ruin
#

i figured that

#

its just time consuming. Would be easier for there to be a tool that you just enter the numbers, what recipe what miner overclock or not etc and give you a visual picture than just numbers and words

torpid robin
#

i dont think there is anything that does everything

rustic talon
#

I agree, Satisgraphory is a good program to follow.

torpid robin
#

i use greenys calc to get the basic idea of what goes where. and then manually put it into that program i use. then connect it all up and move things around to suit me

rustic talon
#

It has not been updated recently, but it was useful until I reached Automated Wiring.

fierce ruin
#

the bigger issue isnt so much production line thats more of a learning process. its how it all will look like how tall how many floors

#

my aluminum line is the closest to where it looks nice but thats all cramped together due to limited of space due to geography and evironment

vast jungle
#

sometimes distributing output from one production step to multiple other production steps can also be an issue... I had my Motor factory running amok for some reason, producing lots of Wire but not the Iron Rods so the production stopped and most of the Wire went trough the overflow back into storage, clogging the belt to the storage completely.

#

not sure I really understand whats going on... I switch priority (by Smart Splitter) from the Wires to the Iron Bars and now I have to wait a few hours to see if things get better

#

best "advice" I have... never let Wire/Quickwire overflow onto a shared "to storage area" belt... it will just block the whole belt if something goes wrong

#

or maybe only connect it with a Mark-1 belt... to set a limit how many items can overflow

wind spade
#

Never mix belts 🙂

vast jungle
# wind spade Never mix belts 🙂

you mean mixed types of belts? I built the whole factory on Lvl-3 belts... and it went crazy.
I think the main issue was to let Wire (hundreds of items per minute) overflow on the central bus without a (mk-1) bottleneck... this fucked up other things

wind spade
#

I mean putting different items on a single belt

sinful vale
#

unless you are making an automated sorting system for your storage, you really should avoid having more than 1 type of item per belt in general

vast jungle
#

I have an automatic sorter in my warehouse... I ran out of space to get belts there and most still is only produced in moderate numbers.... there are a few special belts for "high number" items, but most of the stuff get merged

sinful vale
#

aside from concrete and whatever your current belts need to be made, you realistically don't need more than 2 storages of anything, you really don't need to send your entire wire production to storage, it tends to be better to just send stuff straight into sinks if not used and have small amounts being sent into storage for hand use

sullen cloud
#

I cannot see how mixing Wire and Quickwire on MKIII belts lead to an advantage

#

especially when those belts feed production lines

wispy oxide
fierce ruin
#

ah, I see you're a man of culture as well 😄

wispy oxide
#

Ive made my own esoteric languages xD

fierce ruin
#

I've made my own assembly language for my processor, I guess it counts too XD

#

below is my solution in brainfuck lmao

wispy oxide
#

You're insane haha, nice to meet a fellow codegolfer. But we're drifting off topic here

untold dew
#

If I boost a single nuclear power plant to use 600m³/min water, how many fuel rods /min will be needed for it to run smoothly?

oblique hollow
dusky dust
#

Isn't it closer to 2x, with the weird generator OC scaling?

bleak coral
#

It is almost exactly 2x with nuclear power plants

#

They actually have different scaling than the other power generators, cause why the fuck not haha

sand garnet
#

250% OC on generators is 202% power

#

Except nuclear

#

Where it is a flat 200%

wind spade
bleak coral
#

oh, right, duh

wind spade
oblique hollow
#

oh shoot, yea

#

i forgot again that 250% on generators is 202.5%, or so

#

eh, 2.5^(1/1.3)

#

or 1.3th Root of 2.5

#

oh yea, and also pipe limits

wind spade
#

others are 202.5%

oblique hollow
#

thats why i added the comment with "oh yea, also pipe limits"
Since Nukes also have their own limitations

vast jungle
#

I must (finally) admit it seems I cannot handle pipes... I was trying to build two pipes from my water source to my base... but despite the pumps sometimes only have a few meters headlift to work, some parts of the pipes stay dry

#

is there a good way to measure where to put a pump when the pipes don't go along foundations? I tried to use the blue marks that appear when you place the pump, but sometimes the mark is just not there

dusky dust
#

What's usually recommended is to use up your fluids right at the source, btw, rather than trying to pipe it all back to base. Helps avoid issues like that

#

Maybe post some screenshots of your current pipe setup, though? Someone might be able to spot some problems

#

(I often don't follow that advice re: piping, myself, so no worries if you don't either. :)

vast jungle
#

not sure screenshots will help... the double-pipeline goes for hundreds of meters slowly up a total headlift of at least 80m.

#

I definitely don't get the "current water in pipe" measurement... it goes up and down, even with no consumer at the end of the pipe!

#

shouldn't the pipe become full and STAY full?

#

maybe I should have dropped the whole "use water" idea until I can use packaged water... much less headache

oblique hollow
near gate
#

Hello, I'm new to the server, so I am sorry if this has already been answered. I'm looking for info on load balancing. I don't want blueprints, What I would like to do is learn how to load balance specific amounts. Is there somewhere that talks about the theory behind it, or some sort of formula?

oblique hollow
#

Im afraid that in the most cases, as soon as it is more than 3 or 5 machines, people simply shit on the load balancer and choose to manifold, since it does the same job after a little startup time and doesnt need as much space

#

As for Formula...... im not sure what kind of formula there would be.
The only formula i know of is the output of a splitter with different Belt Mks at the output

#

Load Balancers are neat, dont get me wrong, but the effort required for them increases astronomically fast with more machines

near gate
#

I guess I'm kinda looking for, as an example. I have two sources of 100 items/min. I want to split of 5 from one and join it to the other. How would I do something like that when the halfing or thirding doesn't get even.

#

Or how to split 3 sources into 13.

bleak coral
#

Specific tiny amounts, I don't know

near gate
#

BTW, both of these situation I ran into, and I just gave up.

oblique hollow
#

you want to turn 100 and 100 to 95 and 105?

bleak coral
#

but you can manipulate clock speed and add machines to get a number you can actually load balance

near gate
#

Yeah

oblique hollow
#

Thats why people manifold

#

In that case, you could simply merge the sources and let the machines handle the rest

near gate
#

I did end up overclocking one and underclocking the other, but I was hoping for a different way.

#

I have only have Mk 2 belts currently.

vast jungle
bleak coral
#

@frosty owl you're a big load balancing person right?

vast jungle
#

Split by 2/3 is simple... 4 and 6 is just splitting by 2 and then by 2/3...

#

splitting by 5 is splitting by 6 and merging one of the six lines back into the input...

bleak coral
#

there's also a 5 split system floating around out there, I don't know how to do it though

oblique hollow
#

though that requires higher mk belts

#

or a load balancer between 2 mk 2 belts

near gate
#

Which I would totally do, but my belts can't handle it.

oblique hollow
#

then use 2 mk 2 lines, but make sure both receive input from both sources

#

then it should balance

bleak coral
#

there's also the insertion manifold technique, where you deplete a line until you can merge another into it to add more

near gate
#

Like, I'm all about Manifolding, I think it's more about I ran into these cases and was curious how it would be done. I ended up spending 2 hours sketching out how I would break 3 into 13. And I couldn't figure it out. Then it more because a though experiment.

#

What the insertion Manifold technique?

bleak coral
#

let me get a picture, give me a minute

oblique hollow
#

i think that should do the trick

near gate
#

Yeah, but wouldn't that just balance two lines? I want to do the opposite.

oblique hollow
#

it will balance, but once the machines start backing up, the input shifts

near gate
#

Hence the manifold.

oblique hollow
#

yep

#

its just a balance between 2 manifold lines

#

which will eventually do the same as the manifolds after it

#

Since if, say, the upper line starts backing up because the machines there cant take more than 95/min, the extra 5/min will move over to the lower line

#

The downside, like with all manifolds, is that it takes time

near gate
#

Oh, I see. So it's doing a manifold for two manifold lines. One line will underperform for a bit, but once the smaller line fills, the extra will move over.

oblique hollow
#

yep

#

exactly

near gate
#

Wow, I never even thought about something like that. That's cool.

oblique hollow
#

Theres no formulas needed if one always remembers:
If a splitter cant output on one side, it will try another

near gate
#

I'm fairly new to the game. I played once and steamrolled up to Teir 6 super quick, but wasn't automating anything, and then couldn't keep up with the demand. This is my second game, and i am taking my sweet time.

bleak coral
#

in this example you could even insert it anywhere after the first machine, but the point is you have a second belt you merge into the first belt once enough of the parts on the first belt are used by machines

near gate
#

That makes sense.

oblique hollow
#

this is the ONLY formula for belts that i know of. Theres a similar one for pipes and junctions

📎 unknown.png
bleak coral
#

wouldn't splitting 200ppm onto a mk1 and mk3 just endup at a 60/140 split once the mk1 belt backed up?

#

or I guess wouldn't it be there immediately, cause it can only take 60?

#

ugh I hate mixing belts

oblique hollow
#

nah, it wont

#

The splitter would put more on the mk 3 as the mk 1 takes time to move items away from the output port

#

Thus the mk 3 has more than 3x more time to accept items in then meantime

bleak coral
oblique hollow
#

Its the exact same when you mix pipe mks or when you use valves

#

the valves were the reason i even derived that formula

#

and then i saw that i can apply it to belts too

torpid robin
oblique hollow
#

Actually, rushing to Mk 3 Belts is worth it. Mk 2 Belts are in such a damn odd place

torpid robin
#

Yea lol

oblique hollow
#

reinforced plates? no thank you

torpid robin
#

And I found mk3 is so@much easier to make

#

I just rushed mk5 then built a real whory alclad sheet factory

bleak coral
#

mk1/mk2 is the one place I'll mix belts, cause I'll use mk2 sparsely and split them into two mk1s so I don't need as much reinforced plates

oblique hollow
#

The only place i see for mk 2 belts is in those rare moments when you decide to build some funky Belt Ratio Splitter

bleak coral
#

mk2 use a slowly-made and (relative to other stuff at the time) resource and space intensive process to make their parts

near gate
#

I just unlocked steel, so my next big project is to get a steel factory up and running, then I can unlock the mk3 belts.

bleak coral
#

and at a time when you're still building stuff up so it's hard to make a big factory

#

at least with mk4, which nominally has the same problems mk2 has, you're sufficiently far enough along you have the infrastructure to make a big encased beam factory

oblique hollow
#

Honestly I would be fine if the mk 2s simply used copper sheets + iron plates

bleak coral
#

yeah I'd be good with that

near gate
#

I also want to take my time so I don't hit teir 7 before the big update.

torpid robin
#

Nothing wrong with hitting t7!

#

Just don’t build stuff

bleak coral
#

mk2 feels like it's a different balance from every other belt, they seem like they're made to be used sparingly where as every other belt speed you can just use them for all your belts it's w/e

oblique hollow
bleak coral
#

well I'd build an alclad sheet factory and store a bunch, so you have material for mk5 belts

#

just keeping in mind it's gonna be torn down and replaced

oblique hollow
#

seems reasonable actually: build a small t7 factory to produce a bit of t7 stuff so you have it easier once the update hits

lean horizon
#

Any of you nerds have an equation for manifold fill time?

wind spade
#

not an equation, but a tool that calculates it

lean horizon
#

on your site?

#

me and tomw were trying to figure out a go, no-go limit of filling speed increases with machines

wind spade
#

on the old site 🙂

lean horizon
#

Because if you have 5 machines that need 10/min, you're supplying 50 items/min which will overflow the first machine(100/stack) in 4 minutes.
If you have 10 machines that need 10/min, you're supplying 50 items/min which will overflow the first machine(100/stack) in 2 minutes.

#

So the question was, at what point does adding machines stop decreasing total fill time

oblique hollow
#

It shouldnt be too hard, but the problem is that varying belt lengths add delays and more fill times

wind spade
#

it's not that simple

lean horizon
#

In a bubble, it is

#

idc about belt time, i'm working with theory

#

things instantly get split and instantly make it to where they're going

oblique hollow
#

You would have to make a lot of assumptions and simplifications for such a fill formula

lean horizon
#

Yeah but a simplified equation is the first step to a general one

wind spade
#

if you have 5 machines needing 10 and supplying 50 in total, first machine is filling up at a rate of 15/min (25 input - 10 consumption), but 2nd machine is already filling at a rate of 2.5 (12.5 input - 10 consumption)

oblique hollow
#

I mean, i could.....
I did make a formula for Hypertube Cannon Travel Distance, Output of a Limited Pipe Junction and Output of a Splitter with mixed Belt Mks....

lean horizon
#

Well lets remove consumption too

#

start simple

wind spade
lean horizon
#

how do you get your numbers magic man

oblique hollow
#

How exactly did you simulate that greeny

bleak coral
#

if you're ignoring consumption, belt speed, and belt length then you can just divide the total storage by the parts per minute

#

because however you're dividing it it's going somewhere

lean horizon
#

but each splitter puts half into the next machine

wind spade
near gate
lean horizon
#

so it's exponential decrease

oblique hollow
#

Then you do have some kind of algorithm

wind spade
lean horizon
#

That's the challenge

wind spade
wind spade
near gate
#

Oh, that's your site? I love that site.

wind spade
lean horizon
#

My goal is to get a simple formula and work up from there to include consumption, then physical speed

#

first step is figuring out what happens in a world where it's instant

oblique hollow
#

I mean i could try to squeeze something out of greenys source js xd

lean horizon
#

then instant + machine consumption

#

then physical distance related to both of those(the hardest part)

wind spade
lean horizon
#

imma go to your GH, i'll be back

wind spade
#

it's not on github

#

it's in the old tool

#

that one isn't opensource

lean horizon
#

Fair enough

wind spade
fierce ruin
wind spade
#

I'm gonna go to #off-topic-tech with the source @lean horizon @oblique hollow

lean horizon
#

kk

oblique hollow
#

alright

lean horizon
#

well @oblique hollow Lets walk this through

oblique hollow
#

It definitely inovles 1/2^x

#

for the manifold splits

#

assuming its a standard manifold

wind spade
#

unless you have lower tiered belts

lean horizon
# 
F = Fill time in minutes(matching belt feeds)
N = Number of Machines
oblique hollow
#

how do i do that fancy formatting again? xd

lean horizon
#

minutes instead of seconds is what that note is about

oblique hollow
#

x

lean horizon
#

three back ticks

#

not single quotes, back ticks

#

top left near the 1

oblique hollow
#

ech

lean horizon
#

`

oblique hollow
#

ah, those

lean horizon
#

```

oblique hollow
#

aaaaah

lean horizon
#

there ya go

#

So starting from the actual ground

near gate
#

All this maths makes me wish I had my white board set up.

oblique hollow
#

with one machine, its a linear equation:
Fill time = Input - Consumption / Storage Limit

lean horizon
# 
Variables:
F = Fill time(Minutes)
M = Machines
S = Splitters
B = Belt Speed
C = Machine Consumption(Item/Minutes)
Z = Stack Size
I = Items/Minute supplied
#

All the possibly variables i can think of

wind spade
#

I'm just thinking if you want to do this, maybe make a group chat for it? otherwise it's too much spam here

lean horizon
#

I mean this is the channel for it unless people have other questions

oblique hollow
#

If this is spam then my ramblings about Pipe computers would have gonne me banned long ago xd

wind spade
#

well it's still a lot of messages about a topic that 99.9% of people don't need to read

#

and we can send whatever in a group chat

lean horizon
#

I'll set it up then, greeny you want in I assume

wind spade
#

sure, I'd like to at least read how you're trying and failing 😄

near gate
#

If you do a group chat, I would love to be involved. I may not be much help, but I would love to watch the process.

lean horizon
#

added all

torpid robin
frosty owl
bleak coral
#

oh someone earlier was asking about how you'd take two 100ppm lines and make them a 105ppm and a 95ppm line

#

the solution given eventually was just a balancer that would work when one side backed up, but maybe you know a way that wouldn't need to have one side back up first

frosty owl
#

If he has MK3 belts too, I'd merge them both, priority split into 2 mk2 (1 at 120, the other 80), then split 15 off the 120 line and merge that to the 80 line
But depending on where these lines are going, it might be easier (using less splitters/mergers) to balance one of the lines down the line and base the other on the overflow of the first (kind of like manifolding, only reducing the time by balancing the "not-overflow" one)

bleak coral
#

ah there's the rub, it had to be done with just mk1/2 belts, he didn't have mk3 yet

bleak coral
frosty owl
#

Ouff. Then balancing it would be quite the pain

#

Let's see: split 100 4 times: first 100 - > 60/40. Then 40->20/20. Then 20->10/10. Then 10->5/5.
Merge one 5 line with the other 100 line, all the rest merges to make the 95 line. 4 splitters, 3 mergers

bleak coral
#

haha yeah I guess that works @near gate if you still want to load balance it

frosty owl
#

Anything less then 15 is quite cumbersome to balance, imo

#

Of course, if you finally feel like stopping living as a manifolded heretic, just ping me anytime :)

near gate
#

How do you split 4 times? and wouldn't that give you 4 lines of 25? How did you get the 60/40?

nimble ridge
#

you could use a mark 1 belt to limit a line to 60, then cut it 30/30, split one of those lines out to a 15 and then put that into a splitter with 3 outputs, combine two of them back to the original source. what you're left with would be a belt of 5 and you could use that to turn two 100 lines into a 105 95

#

its complicated but you can do any ratio with splitters if you have patience and space to work with

#

i dont know who asked the original question so i cant @ them but to who ever needed help i hope that works

frosty owl
nimble ridge
#

i literally just said

#

omg

#

you would just have to put a splitter on the 100 line with 3 mk1 outputs and combine two of them. thats 60/40

#

again, its possible and easy you just have to know how to use the tools at your disposal

frosty owl
#

I'm pretty sure what you just described would give you 66.66/min and 33.33/min as outputs... 🤔

nimble ridge
#

no

#

splitter with 3 outputs, all on mk1 belts. if you combine two, it will be limited to 60. the remaining belt will be 40.

frosty owl
#

Oh, right, I forgot about using "saturated" mergers (I think of it as a bad habit)
Sure, that works too. Of course, smart splitters are preferable, but it gets the job done

nimble ridge
#

i can think of alot of instances where smart splitters would be markedly less useful, again splitters are great if you know how to use them and have a bit of space to work with

frosty owl
#

I don't think there is any, though
After all smart splitters lack nothing compared to normal splitters, only taking a bit more time to set up of you have to fiddle with the settings

nimble ridge
#

smart splitters only work properly if you can guarantee a certain amount of input in a few scenarios

#

if you want a lesson on how to use splitters thats cool but im not in the mood to argue

jaunty smelt
#

anyone know best setup for alclad sheets with out it back up and stopping the whole factory.

dusky dust
#

I assume you're talking about having the water bit back up?

#

If you want a failsafe, you can send the excess water into a bunch of Packagers to package the water, and send 'em to sinks

nimble ridge
#

that is maybe the worst way to get rid of water

jaunty smelt
#

yeah and silica

dusky dust
#

You can try looping back as much of it as possible and just have that as a safeguard, if you add an upside-down U-bend in front of the packagers

#

As for silica, yeah, you can use a smart splitter on overflow to sink those, as well, if you want

#

It's generally nice to have some overflow safeguards just in case, esp. if you're not totally sure of your numbers

#

What I tend to do is get things Basically Good Enough, where the overflow shouldn't happen often

#

But it's nice to have it there just in case, so you can feel more confident in the setup

jaunty smelt
#

yeah so hard to get perfect number with all the . 1.2.3.4. lmao

nimble ridge
#

take all of your excess water and use it to refine anything like iron, limestone, or caterium. set up whatever you're powering with water to also overflow to a regular recipie that doesnt require water so that both works if either overflows

#

i seriously reccomend you dont take apocalypse's advide

dusky dust
#

Eh, for someone still getting to grips with dealing with that kind of loop, IMO it's a lot simpler to just sink excess if need be

#

If you're combining byproducts from production lines, things become much more difficult to debug

#

Can definitely be a good idea eventually, but someone still getting used to it might want it a bit more straightforward. :)

nimble ridge
#

ok, you're wrong. dont be the guy to confuse new players by giving them bad advice when neither of you know what you're talking about

jaunty smelt
#

yeah i did try using water to reycle it but so so hard to keep it perfect

dusky dust
#

You're just all kinds of salty today, aren't ya? :P

nimble ridge
#

and you're just wrong today, arent ya? ;p

dusky dust
#

Anyway, obvs. play however you like. :) My recommendation is to try to get the numbers as close as possible, and make sure you've got some overflow handling to sink any excess

#

And ideally if you do see excess, you can tune your setup a bit to reduce it

jaunty smelt
#

yeah thanks

dusky dust
#

np, enjoy!

jaunty smelt
#

im not a new player lol

nimble ridge
#

ok and since thats terrible advice, what i reccomend is that lets say you have 100 water/sec, make a second line that would use lets say water and limestone to make concrete that would use 120 water/sec, and also hook the concrete up to constructors if it would be a problem for that line to stop if you run out of water

jaunty smelt
#

just seeing if anyone new a way to make it perfect that was all

nimble ridge
#

using sinks for liquids only works if you dont care about throwing away packages and wasting power

#

that idea would work for any item with a secondary recipe that uses water

#

especially since they're about to change packagers

dusky dust
#

Except that if you're dialing in your resource-recycling efforts within the same production line (as in water+silica for aluminum), your ideal situation is no overflow at all

#

So if you're relying on excess to drive production lines, you're getting Not Very Much at best, and A Variable Amount at worst

rustic talon
#

I'm finally stepping into water I have yet to step in by myself.... which is Oil Refining and such...... OH BOY!

dusky dust
#

Use the excess to dial in your numbers while not having to worry about things actually backing up, I say.

nimble ridge
#

thats not possible, and if you want the most aluminum from your bauxite you would be shooting yourself in the foot to try that.

sinful vale
jaunty smelt
#

think you all ways have to have some excess to a sink as i cant get number perfect

nimble ridge
#

thats not true carlos

rustic talon
#

I laid out a small design for someone before, never reached this stage by myself though.... always with friends.

jaunty smelt
#

will have to use stuff for other lines so it does not stop alclad line

nimble ridge
#

yes, you would be making sure the alclad line runs at 100% by overbuilding any factory which would deal with its output/byprocts

#

so that those factories run slightly slow

sand garnet
#

depends on your goal

#

some people like perfect factory setups

frosty owl
#

Haven't finished my water loop yet, but I think the package-and-sink is usually the best option if you keep in mind troubleshooting and such... Then there is always time to expand and either loop the water back or send it to other productions

nimble ridge
#

its ok to be wrong

sand garnet
#

not sure if your goal is to rile everyone up and cause conflict or if you're just a generally negative person

#

packaging and sinking is a great starter-friendly way to deal with excess water

jaunty smelt
#

lmao tell everyone there wrong or no true but then cant tell the true or right answer lol

frosty owl
#

What I think is less ok is trying to force one's ideas on other by shaping their own as "right" ones versus "wrong" ones. There are plenty of ways to discuss without the need to put it under a conflictual perspective ("right" vs "wrong" or whatever)

sand garnet
#

especially because all the pure recipes are alternate recipes

nimble ridge
#

if you want to talk about something thats "starter friendly" and worse, do it in questions and help.

sand garnet
#

no

nimble ridge
#

this is math and meta, where we discuss the right and best way to do things

sand garnet
#

there is no objectively right way to do things

#

and best is highly subjective to begin with

nimble ridge
#

there is, its called meta. thats the definition of meta

sand garnet
#

in a game without a meta, lol

nimble ridge
#

every game has a meta, and you are in the chat for this game's meta.

sand garnet
#

example: casual players could opt to use steel rotor alt recipe instead of copper rotor alt recipe, to make motor production very easy

frosty owl
nimble ridge
#

yes, but the copper rotor alt recipie would be meta, and better.

sand garnet
#

not better

#

because 'better' depends on playstyle

#

so it entirely depends on how you define 'better'

nimble ridge
#

no, better depends on ratio. easy depends on playstyle

sand garnet
#

resource cost? sure.
ease of production? hell no

nimble ridge
#

the "meta" way isnt the easiest or fastest, its the best.

sand garnet
#

meta depends on playstyle

nimble ridge
#

you're confusing meta play with casual play and speedrunning, and doing it in the meta chat.

sand garnet
#

meta is usually only set in stone in a competitive game, which this is not

frosty owl
#

This is much more of a semantics discussion then what I think belongs here... Surely more then anything I can enjoy, so Imma head out 👋

nimble ridge
#

meta is set in stone in every game, otherwise this chat would be called "the subjective way you think you should do things based off of what is easy and simple enough for you to understand"

jaunty smelt
#

wow only asked if anyone how to make alclad number work perfectly lmao

sand garnet
#

yeah so lets bring that topic back to discussion

frosty owl
#

There be days like this...

sand garnet
#

have you checked greeny's site yet Carlos?

#

it's great for stuff like this

frosty owl
#

Doesn't take water into much consideration, though

jaunty smelt
#

have done it on the planner trying to get work it out as line go everywhere lmao

sinful vale
#

depending on which you are basing youself the answer of meta will change

nimble ridge
#

ok, all of those criteria are wrong.

sand garnet
#

dunno what planner you used, but this link is usually pretty concise

frosty owl
#

Dear lord, more of this. Better head out for real

sand garnet
#

<@&387163995947270144> can you maybe tell LOTJ to chill a bit?

stone orbit
#

yo chill

sand garnet
#

dude is basically causing conflict everywhere

nimble ridge
#

meta doesnt describe " least amount of machines or space or logistics or power consumption" it is the most possible output you can get from every node on the map of the highest tier of item, if you break it down to the very basics. in a more circumstantial sense that would be getting the most alclad sheets from a limited supply of bauxite, for example.

stone orbit
#

meta is subjective the end

sand garnet
#

its a discussion of semantics that ultimately will lead nowhere

nimble ridge
#

ok, thats not true.

sand garnet
#

lets just bring it back to the alclad sheet production ?

#

@jaunty smelt which part are you struggling with ?

stone orbit
#

yea LOTJ this is a place for learning and discussion not for telling people they're wrong or have the wrong idea

nimble ridge
#

meta is the objective best way to do things

jaunty smelt
#

thanks @sand garnet

sinful vale
#

but the problem is that there isn't just one way to get the best results in an open ended game

#

@nimble ridge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO9HPW5uqBg

YouTube
Adam Millard - The Architect of Games
How Satisfactory Makes Work Fun

Here's the itch. io bundle - get it whilst it's hot! https://itch.io/b/520/bundle-for-racial-justice-and-equality

Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Thefearalcarrot

Support the channel on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ArchitectofGames

Work is boring - at least, that's what we've been told. Satisfactory, Factorio, and other logistics...

▶ Play video
nimble ridge
#

yes there is, thats would be called the meta.

sand garnet
#

@jaunty smelt do you have a part of the setup done yet? or still at the planning phase?

nimble ridge
#

just as there is a meta for pokemon black if you want to play it in the most optimized way

#

and thats what this chat is for, the meta. not the open ended way you chose to solve a problem in an easy and inefficient way

sand garnet
#

can you finish this conversation in your head so this chat doesnt turn into a dumpsterfire?

#

lets bring it back to actual math stuff

jaunty smelt
#

just as the planning phase to go big i already have small production going so just trying to work out a good options

sand garnet
#

is your small production working flawlessly ?

#

if so, you could just scale it up

#

unless you want to really use ALL the bauxite perfectly

dark thicket
#

I see where @nimble ridge is coming from

vast jungle
#

Could it be that just after loading the power consumtion peaks as if everything would be working?

frosty owl
#

Ahem like some crazy people. Don't recommend

oblique bloom
#

this server does not have a single channel intended to discuss a single playstyle, you're free to choose your own definition of meta, but regardless, this channel isn't solely for the meta, this channel is to discuss the math behind different setup to come to a solution that works for someone, not solely to crunch the numbers to find a perfect solution

jaunty smelt
#

no as i was just made to i could get some alclad sheet i had to put some large container in so over a few days i backs up and it only out such a small amount

sand garnet
sand garnet
frosty owl
sand garnet
#

to be fair, it's never been a point of discussion before

#

dunno if a pin really matters

jaunty smelt
#

no just looking at it now going to go though it tomorrow and see what i can come up with

#

and yes all baxite will but use lmao

sand garnet
#

in the recipe tab on the left side, you can enable/ disable any alt recipes you have

rustic talon
nimble ridge
#

lmao, what the channel is for is a sidenote. what im saying is that the advice i gave is the meta way, someone else gave a different suggestion which was a worse, inefficient way and said that is better

sand garnet
#

those will greatly affect how you build stuff

nimble ridge
#

when the meta is the objective most efficent way to do things, and to claim its subjective is idiotic

jaunty smelt
#

i use that location for oil rubber plastic

old ember
sand garnet
#

if you dont have alts yet just turn on all the alts to see how the website calculates it so you know which ones to get

old ember
#

@nimble ridge ☝️

nimble ridge
#

im badasbob, i like beating dead memes and joining conversations i wasnt a part of

sand garnet
#

LOTJ please stop..

rustic talon
sand garnet
#

we're trying to actually solve carlos' issue here

frosty owl
sand garnet
#

@rustic talon great spot cloak, if you ever need more oil, have a look at the western ocean

jaunty smelt
#

ok thanks i have a look at it tomorrow and let you know how i get on and see what you think lmao

#

yeah you can message me with it thank you

rustic talon
#

Indeed Tom, thank you.... I now just have to sum up all the resources and items being produced to fully figure out the total area I will need for the base itself.

jaunty smelt
#

thank for you help everyone

dusky dust
#

@jaunty smelt Oh, btw, in case you hadn't seen it: Update 4, coming in Feb/Mar (or later) is gonna rework the aluminum production line

sand garnet
#

assuming you have mk2 pipes, you can overclock pure oil nodes to 250% to get exactly 600m3 ( mk2 pipe filled ) out of them

dusky dust
#

So when that drops, your current lines are going to break in some way