math-and-meta

[frosty owl]

Smart foundations is handy and not cheaty. I approve of it

[mild wind]

alr ill try

[frosty owl]

Area Actions I suggest only to demolish things fast as it's quite the "cheaty" mod

I found that not having to hop around all the time on belts was worth adding a floor. Doesn't need to be fancy after all, just a hole to dump your spaghetts in ^^

[mild wind]

sorry to clog up math and meta im just tyring to learn the game and it seemed like the most relevant channel

[frosty owl]

No worries. No mod have seen this, so you're cool 😉

[mild wind]

cool cool

wait is the coffeestainer role the mod role

ope no its the mod role makes more sense

[sinful vale]

besides the occasional discussion about fluid dynamics by mcgalleon, this chat is one of the quieter ones, so don't worry

[frosty owl]

@carmine fox I bring in baux, water, coal, silica, a pure copper node (for sheets) , copper ingots and sheets, rotors, supPC, motors...

[mellow nimbus]

somebody said there was a mod or program with spreadsheet for planning factory builds?

[sinful vale]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[frosty owl]

I guess it's easier to say I make the allu solution, scraps, ingots and sheets plus the heat exchangers and radio control units all in place. Also turbomotors, ofc

[carmine fox]

So it's half half I guess... a lot going on in one building but not everything so that is good already

[mellow nimbus]

oh nice

[carmine fox]

Makes it easier to fix later if you don't have everything in one building but seperate it in smaller chunks

[frosty owl]

I don't quite get what you mean 🤔
Sorry if I answer at weird intervals and often not in the right orde to messages, but as I said: lag is brutal in Discord

[mellow nimbus]

Ok so on that information if it says Iron 50x smelter that means you need 50 smelters?

[frosty owl]

Oh yes, that's a good point
But it being a MAXIMIZED design kinda makes it very "fragile" to changes. The smallest "chunk" I have is a set of 24 allu solution refineries or 15 scraps refineries (all the rest other then the turbomotors are made in the same array as the scraps refineries)

[carmine fox]

hmm yes that is a problem... I personally started to build in a very open way and have like one floor for each step of the production line, that makes it a lot easier to fix when changes happen

[frosty owl]

Worst part is that I found a design that ties groups of 5:3:4:4:3 machines for allu scraps, allu ingots, allu sheets, heat stuff, radio control unit respectively.... So all the ratio would be gone, probably 😅

[carmine fox]

yes that would happen indeed ^^ honestly I am not sure what advice I would give you now that I know how you want to build it

it will certainly completely break once the update hits and leave almost no room for fixing it

not building it would be boring and you've already done a lot. building it in another way would probably not be as satisfying for you

so there is no good solution 😛

[frosty owl]

I'd love to hear how easy or not you think it would be to fix in your opinion.
You can find a screenshot of it if you search for it in screenshots... I'd link it, but my lag doesn't let me load pictures properly now 😅😂

[carmine fox]

I'll check it out

[frosty owl]

Dear lord loading messages is so slow....

[carmine fox]

#screenshots message

[frosty owl]

Also yes, planning floors properly can change so much in how easy it is to fix or change stuff...

[carmine fox]

I guess you mean this one? If yes then I think it would be quite well fixable

[frosty owl]

I intended to share another screenshot that showed the array I mentioned earlier better, but yeah that's the entirety of the facility!

[carmine fox]

You have different production steps seperated from each other which means you can remove one part of the production line without breaking the rest

And replace it with something is if needed or just leave it blank or whatever will happen

[frosty owl]

Mhhh, you may have misunderstood a little. The different buildings aren't "production specific" but just a convenient way to split machines up for belts and pipes
All the arrays on the left are for allu solution (which could be replaced partially or piece by piece, on that I agree ) but all the others are made of those "infamous" 5:3:4:4:3 blocks I mentioned

Specifically in rows of 15 refineries

[vast jungle]

I just arrived at Coal-Tech, so I don't get the 5:3:4:4:3 joke(?)

[frosty owl]

It's not a joke xD, it's the ratio between machines I used.
E.g: 5 refineries feed 3 foundries, that feed 4 assemblers, that feed 4 assemblers, that feed 3 manufacturers

[carmine fox]

Hmm as far as I can see those chunks are also quite well seperated in itself. so 5:3:4:4:3 would mean the first 3 (whatever that is) is always at the same place for each chunk so you can still remove that part the same way for each chunk no? if yes then it's still fixable, the only problem would be that you would probably to add other ratios so you would have to connect them all together once update 4 hits. Not the worst but it would look kinda weird to have buildings in chunks with no reason

[vast jungle]

with all the different sizes of buildings, a combination of this doesn't sounds that bad.

[frosty owl]

You pretty much got it
And yes, I guess you're right, but I think I can accommodate only slight changes to ratios without having to redo all the belts/pipes or even the whole building due to space management
Is for example there was need for 1 more assembler I wouldn't know where to fit it 😅🤣
But damn, even just talking about it makes solutions and ideas spring up from everywhere.
I'm glad I had a chance to, thank you very much :3

[frosty owl]

I know, right?!? Lemme share a screen if I can, I think you could appreciate xD

[carmine fox]

No problem 🙂 everything is ficsable 😉

[frosty owl]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553550313533997057/778667310306164796/Screenshot20201114-01151100000.png

@vast jungle

[carmine fox]

I'll go to bed now and continue tomorrow. let's see if I'll be able to add another 400 fuel generators and connect them in one day 🙂 that's tomorrows goal ^^

[frosty owl]

Yeah, but at some point it's more convenient to rebuild ahahah

[frosty owl]

Good luck and thanks again!
Have a good night :)

[carmine fox]

👋

[vast jungle]

3 Manufacturers... that sounds "large" for a small factory block (just looked in the wiki)

[frosty owl]

5 refineries going into 3 constructors is far fetched, though... I think?
Even with standard recipes

Ok, maybe not with standard recipes xD

[vast jungle]

10*20 m and 20 m high? WTF?

[frosty owl]

That's how big the refineries' group is?
What about it?

[vast jungle]

that is how large ONE refinery is... these things are small towers!

[frosty owl]

Oh, right, foundations aren't 4x 🤦‍♂️

Yeah, no kidding, they're pretty massive

[vast jungle]

okay, going offline for today... was nice to talk with you

[frosty owl]

Which makes doubles tacking machines in front of them... Kinda make sense

Have a good night/rest of the day
Good talks are always appreciated :D

[frosty owl]

That's enough spamming
I advise moderation ^^ (no pun intended)

[oblique hollow]

I know i shouldnt but i had to chuckle

[hot ginkgo]

<@&387163995947270144>

[signal nimbus]

<@&387163995947270144> Partially because meme spam. Partially because above.

[hot ginkgo]

Lolbye

[oblique hollow]

Assassinated

[sinful vale]

the force is now at peace

[hot ginkgo]

That right there was a hard ban.

[signal nimbus]

Dang. Never seen one of those in action.

[fierce ruin]

Me neither

[oblique hollow]

Wanna experience it yourself?

[fierce ruin]

no

[frosty owl]

I feel like I missed something... Oh well, will leave the popcorn for another time.

[oblique hollow]

ew, weeks old popcorn

I only eat that at cinemas

[fierce ruin]

lol

[frosty owl]

... No words...
||Just chuckles||

[tender compass]

@oblique hollow
Thinking super simplified. What's ya think?
https://i.imgur.com/1MA19KO.png

[oblique hollow]

I suppos you put an image inside the yellow / green boxes? Or just connect an arrow?

[tender compass]

It'd be an object link, labeled

btw, I wasn't kidding about ClarisWorks...
https://i.imgur.com/NEdXJT3.png

[oblique hollow]

xd

[tender compass]

I've owned this for 22 years, and still find it useful lol

[oblique hollow]

Well, they should work for Belt diagrams. I only chose to make detailed icons for Pipe diagrams since nowhere along the line did i ever include products

[tender compass]

I'm out, going to a winter fest thing.

[oblique hollow]

Have fun

[bleak coral]

@cedar mica if you are going to introduce copper into a process that would normally use iron wire I wonder if it'd be better to just use the copper for iron alloy ingots and use iron wire anyway instead of regular wire

nevermind ran the numbers, it's worse than just using pure recipes are regular wire

[cedar mica]

My main issue with Iron Wire, is that you need a lot more constructors

Iron Wire is 1 ingot to 1.8 wire. Copper Wire is 1 ingot to 2 wire

6 Iron per 5 Copper on input side. And even more, when you take the output side into account

34.6 Iron and 26 Copper, per 780 belt

[balmy spindle]

decimal numbers are yikes for me

[bleak coral]

if you want to do anything decently complex you'll need to use decimals, the numbers just don't line up past stuff more complicated than like steel and maybe basic oil stuff

[dusky dust]

Decimals aren't bad once you've seen the Manifold Light

[balmy spindle]

Welp thank you for that since im only at Tier 4 rn lmao

[dusky dust]

Just have to know how much you've got on the line(s) and how much each "row" is taking up

[balmy spindle]

im just trying to mass produce tier 3 and 4 stuff before i get to tier 5 and 6

[mild wind]

make a ton of encased steel beams im so behind on it

[balmy spindle]

Yeah i have

currently have a setup making I think 65/min

[mild wind]

that and a like 10 mod frame/min

[balmy spindle]

filled up a few bins by just leaving it out

[mild wind]

honeslty im just trying to bs my way thru tier 5+6 until i can get oil power

[balmy spindle]

Im just working on getting 1080 iron ingot/min produced into diff parts for tier 3 and 4

so i can stockpile on everything

[mild wind]

ya i kinda didnt do any sort of math for my factory so i need to re do a ton of it

[sinful vale]

trying to cheese your way past tiers tend to be an easy way to have problems pile up until they all blow up in your face at once

[mild wind]

yeppppppp

[balmy spindle]

I mean all ik so far is that i have 4 270 lines of iron ingot which can be allocated to plates and what not and 3 270 lines of copper ingots for wires and stuff like that

thats as much maths as ice done

[mild wind]

nice

[balmy spindle]

well apart from the amount of constructors imma need

and how much power thats all gonna take up

[mild wind]

ya the big thing i need to redo is my power cuz its super inconsistent cuz i tried to hook up 10 coal gens to 3 water gens

[mellow nimbus]

Ok trick question for ya. If i have 16 fuel gens and 35 coal gens and power demand goes up which type of gen covers the increase in load first to sustain. As in do the coal gens starting eating more coal and water first or does the Fuel gen start eating more first?

[mild wind]

idk about fuel gens but coal gens eat a max of 45 water/min and 15 coal/min not oc'd

they can go down, but never over that

[mellow nimbus]

Yeah that is at max burn I think fuel is max 15m3 let me go look

[sinful vale]

coal is the simplest power source, it's just about repeating a set up of 3 water extractors, 8 coal gens and 120 coal as many times as you can/want

[mellow nimbus]

Yeah well i have fuel pumping out at a pretty good rate with 600m3 flow coming in from 4 wells

[mild wind]

the way power works is that it has a max, it'll never produce more than the max, but if power draw goes down it uses less and doesnt work at the max anymore

[mellow nimbus]

So you never know what its at till its at max..lol

[sinful vale]

fuel gens are sorta tricky considering that depending on whether you feed them normal fuel or turbo fuel you can have drastically different amounts of gens

[mellow nimbus]

normal fuel right now no turbo stufs

[mild wind]

i mean in the build menu each tell you its max

[balmy spindle]

with coal gens i always overload them with coal because realistically im not going to go at max power consumption

[mild wind]

ya coal is pretty easy to find anyways u can kinda set up coal gens anywhere

[balmy spindle]

but i use 3 water extractors / 8 coal gens

[sinful vale]

that set up will never work besides 8 gens, they will start eating more water than what is produced if they pass that

[mellow nimbus]

Just wondering if of the two types one gets put at secondary power when the load starts going up. As per the first question.

[zenith apex]

@sinful vale how

[sinful vale]

how what?

[mellow nimbus]

Well back to building just make more fuel gens

[mild wind]

i let it overflow once and somehow that fixed the problem. i have no clue how but it did

i had to sit there turning the fuse box for like 30 seconds but that fixed it

[sinful vale]

that is more of a placebo than anything else, you just got the water extractors turned on long enough to fill the gens back up, then your power consumption must have dropped 'cause it was inconsisntent

[mild wind]

idk man i had full power draw

maybe its some sort of bug???

[sinful vale]

if you ever surpass the capacity of 8 gens again for long enough, they will shut off again

[sinful vale]

no, look at it this way

[mild wind]

no like ik the math

but im using like 700 mw and im still not going over

[sinful vale]

you have a miner that can feed 8 smelters, but you have 10 smelters that aren't running at 100% so your miner can feed them all

[balmy spindle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/760968527640264704/784947515479818344/unknown.png as i was saying about the iron production, the smelters on the left produce 810 copper ingots/min and the ones on the right produce 1080 iron ingots/min

[mild wind]

ohhh i see what ur saying lanxcapo

[sinful vale]

once that you turn the miners up to a point where they eat more than the miner can produce, they will first start using the ore in the belts and then the ore inside the smelters

[mild wind]

yaaaa i get it

[sinful vale]

it won't turn off until it runs trough that first

[balmy spindle]

idk if there was a better way of doing this but i mean theoretically it should work

however it will take a lot of power

[mild wind]

i think that should work

but ya its gonna take a ton of power

[balmy spindle]

each strip is 9 smelters so

63 smelters in total

eh

[mild wind]

actually thats only like 250 mw

[balmy spindle]

only 252 MW

yeah

[mild wind]

but if u ever try to get those into constructors, assemblers

[balmy spindle]

not too much as i have 1800 MW that i can use in total

[mild wind]

damn nice

[sinful vale]

you meant what i said before^?

[balmy spindle]

but jesus the area i have to build all of this is nice

pretty sure its 51x51 foundations for the mega base or smth

[mild wind]

how much concrete did it take lmfao

[balmy spindle]

Uhh

let me calculate an estimate

[mild wind]

oooof like 15600 concrete

[balmy spindle]

well thats floor 2

• theres decoration on the outside

so maybe 40000 concrete

[mild wind]

ouch

[sinful vale]

not that much tbh

[balmy spindle]

yeah

[mild wind]

lmao i just have 1 mk2 pure node supplying my whole base

[balmy spindle]

the whole base once finished should have a total of maybe 900k or so concrete

[sinful vale]

concrete isn't that big of a deal, unless you have some mass production mod, making the foundations takes long enough for the concrete lines to produce a decent amount

[mild wind]

thats a fair point

[balmy spindle]

I mean i just have like 8 bins filled with concrete

so its not much of an issue

[mild wind]

i have 5 medium storage

i hope in tier 8 we get large storage containers

[balmy spindle]

The only thing im lacking is mod frames as i dont have a production line for them

[sinful vale]

only thing about concrete is to set up all spare limestone nodes into concrete lines until you need them, it's always handy to have a concrete source close by

[balmy spindle]

however i will make one on the same floor producing a lot of mod frames / min

[mild wind]

i have like a 4/min one lmfao

[balmy spindle]

Stators and Encased Beams are fine since i have a production line for those above my steel factory

which is let me check

[mild wind]

what do stators cost again

[balmy spindle]

wire and steel pipes

[mild wind]

oh

wow so all u need is iron and coal with iron wire and u can make one pretty simply

and u make rotors with iron parts

[balmy spindle]

i mean luckily for me

i have a pure copper node next to the steel factory

[mild wind]

wowwww i never realised a motor factory is so easy with iron wire

thats lucky

[balmy spindle]

o wait nvm im making 12 encased beams per min

and 30 stators /min

[sinful vale]

oh, sorry, i just realized, the input on the right will get filled eventually and all the excess (40) will go to the left, so it will just balance itself out

[balmy spindle]

and this is the side view of the mega base @mild wind

from my steel factory

[mild wind]

thats gonna be a thicc boi

[balmy spindle]

Yep

[mild wind]

whats the end goal?

[balmy spindle]

to produce most items in that base

as well as a storage unit and such

[mild wind]

oh ok

i never really thought to make a megafactory i just kinda have a wide base

[balmy spindle]

I mean ive been wanting to make one for a while after looking at other peoples lets plays on the game

ive reset my save slots at least 4 times now

this is the best ive done so far

[mild wind]

ouch

ive just reset once and i dont think i can hold out till coal power again

that was painful

[balmy spindle]

since ofc i learnt that manifolds are just as efficient as load balancing

[mild wind]

I JUST LEARNED THAT TODAY AND EVERYTHING IS SO SIMPLE NOW

[balmy spindle]

Yeah lmao

when i heard about it I was like "finally dont have to make a weird 3/11th split"

[mild wind]

i can save like 100 rows of foundation cuz i now i dont need my like 9/11 split

cant remember what its for but my "math" came out to that

[balmy spindle]

Yeah mainfolds require less maths which is nice

[sinful vale]

i know that you just got introduced into the ways of the church of the manifold, but don't let yourself be too lazy, don't make 20 machine manifolds or a 3 machine manifold

[mild wind]

i mean im still gonna be efficient with them

[balmy spindle]

since if you have too many of 1 item you can just have the manifold overflow into another production line or into a bin

[mild wind]

im not gonna route my entire rotor factory into one line but it makes overflow so much easier to deal with

[balmy spindle]

However im still going to load balance a few things

[mild wind]

load balancing is still super satisfactory doe

[balmy spindle]

Anyways imma head off, had fun talking with you lot o/

[mild wind]

ya u too

[gleaming lagoon]

Which one is the best?

[tender compass]

copper ingots

anything that adds recipes to use screws is... :S

[gleaming lagoon]

Okay👌🏼👌🏼thanks

[zenith apex]

I did this because my coal miner is mining 300coal/min and I have 16 coal generators, they just need 240coal/min 200 coal are being delivered and I made this split thing because I'm planning my steel factory with 60 coal/min.

I need exacly that amount to be delivered

I can't let my coal generators without fuel

[sinful vale]

copper ingots aren't really useful until midlate game, an alt for reinforced plates is always better than the base, even if it isn't stitched

[zenith apex]

that's why I made it so precise.

But I think I got what you meant, another person already told me to do the same thing

[sinful vale]

then make it the other way around, make it so that the 40 line for your gens fills first and then use the other 60 to do whatever you want

[zenith apex]

just putting mk1 in one site and mk2 in another

[zenith apex]

Probably it will use a little more than 40 because the distance between the miner and the coal generators is huge

[sinful vale]

then the only thing that will happen is that the line for the 60 will take a sec to start running for the line of 40 to set itself up first

[zenith apex]

hmm yeah, I'll note that for future stuff

I already did that so

[sinful vale]

it's just a manifold

[zenith apex]

I kinda just don't like manifolds at all lmao

That's why I did a balancer

But I got what you meant, thank you anyways bro.

[topaz hedge]

so.. I'm using greenies tool for some math and it doesn't seem to want to pick the best recipe?

[sinful vale]

i get that, but there are situations in which a method is better than the other, when 1 asks you to make a crap ton of merging and splitting or 2h to set up, trying to stick with you preferred method just 'cause just ends up making things unnecessarily hard

[topaz hedge]

I'm also trying to figure out the easiest way to get 3000 cable and 1735 wire..

[sinful vale]

how so?

[topaz hedge]

well, it defaults to iron wire and constructors every time, where as rubber cable can save me ~4650 wire/min at the expense of 300 oil

[zenith apex]

Understand.

I was just afraid that the other method wouldn't work

[sinful vale]

it's defaulting to the most resource efficient recipe, you can unselect the iron wire alt and it should pick the rubber cable one

[topaz hedge]

I'm fine with iron wire, but the cable production is going to kill me.. and nothing against his tool, it's wonderful.

yeah, but it brings up the question as to what's more valuable, 300 oil and 400 iron, or 1800 iron ore

[sinful vale]

the oil is more valuable than all the iron in the map

[topaz hedge]

either way I guess megafactories isn't it's intended use, sorta. I'm just going to do it one part at a time.

[sinful vale]

there is WAY more iron than anyone will ever need

it's actually the only resource that you will probably never run out of when doing a run to clear out all nodes

[topaz hedge]

That may be true, but it depends on what you define as valuable, there's more oil than I'll ever need for the way I play, so at that point it becomes how valuable my time is so to speak

I dunno, the tool is correct. but sometimes I want to waste resources. lol

[sinful vale]

then force it by either opting out recipes

[topaz hedge]

I did.

[sand garnet]

greeny's tool uses weighted resource value where the availability on the map determines its value

there's significantly less oil on the map so wherever possible, it will be substituted with iron

[prime grove]

Which is a good thing considering iron is practically infinite

Specially with that pure iron recipe

I wonder if iron is a “limiting” resource in the game. Or would you run out of something else first

[empty hemlock]

i think quartz is the limiter from what people who did the maths said

maybe bauxit? one of those 2

but all the early ones, including oil, there is absolute tons off

[prime grove]

Quartz would have been my main guess because of it lacking alternates where you can do substitution for quartz crystal

[upbeat tide]

I am making 94.5 ocilators off a supply of 1200 raw quartz. And an absurd amount of silica off 3600 raw quartz via the cheap silica alt

Got plenty still on the map for other projects

[frosty owl]

Finally some wise words!

[wind spade]

that entirely depends on what you're making

[prime grove]

Well yeah ofc if I want to make only iron ingots I might run into some issues with iron

[frosty owl]

I never heard of anyone running out of (in order of abundance in the game) iron, copper, limestone or coal. I heard some got close to coal or quick wire, though ^^

*caterium

[prime grove]

But what I mean is that if I wanted to make 100,000,000 iron ingots a minute it’s probably impossible. But 100,000,000 wire per minute is likely possible

Or if I wanted to make heavy mod frames I only need coal, limestone and iron to do that. Which is only a third of the game resources so one of those would be my limiter

[frosty owl]

The best recipe turns 15 copper ore into 37.5 or 30 iron ingots into 60. Just count the nodes and you'd have how much ingots you can make
Though calculators can do it faster, if you like that route

[frosty owl]

It'd be coal. You'd run out of steel way before you run out of iron or copper

[wind spade]

you can make 149258.59 iron ingots/min

[frosty owl]

There you have it ^^

[wind spade]

for wire it's 501000/min

[prime grove]

I know what math is, it was a hypothetical. Not a genuine concern

@wind spade even considering iron wire?

[wind spade]

considering all alts

[prime grove]

There must be way less copper than iron in the map then

[wind spade]

there's 28860 copper and 70380 iron

[prime grove]

Per min in ore?

[wind spade]

yeah

[prime grove]

I’m assuming limestone is in similar quantity to copper

Quartz and caterium are probably close together

[frosty owl]

I'd applaud if you manage to finish limestone and not only to make concrete

[prime grove]

Water is infinite unless you consume all the surface area on the map though your game would definitely break

[frosty owl]

Quartz tend to finish quite faster then Caterium. After all you can still reduce the cat by using copper if you so wish

[prime grove]

You could probably do 100,000 concrete per minute lol

[frosty owl]

I'm not sure about being able to USE them though 😂

Outside of the sink, ofc :P

[prime grove]

Yeah quartz disappears quick because it’s recipes are more expensive than caterium I believe

But I think ore per minute is pretty close on both

[frosty owl]

Also because of the number of nodes. It's really not all that much...
Little over 10k ore I think?

[prime grove]

That would be like 15 nodes

[frosty owl]

I think Cat is about 1.5 times more abundant

[prime grove]

Probably 20. Idk if impure quartz nodes exist

Probably rare

I think all the nodes I found were pure with some normal

[balmy spindle]

No they dont

[topaz hedge]

For my case using oil over something abundant, like iron when it reduces machine count significantly is worth it, considering I only need 2 impure nodes to meet the demand of what would've taken hundreds more machines and several more of the limited, conveniently located nodes in dunes (There's plenty - probably but that's not the point) It sounds like a win to me

[wind spade]

no you can't, concrete is capped at 47574/min

[sinful vale]

more than anyone will ever need unless they cheat by just making it all into concrete

[upbeat tide]

I use more limestone in the cheap silica alt than making concrete

[bleak coral]

Because of alts HMFs can end up using almost any resource you want. In fact max HMFs is a ridiculous 1922ppm and uses basically the entire map except bauxite and uranium. https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=zMkoceUCen0ANYeZP0Z3

[sinful vale]

you will run out of quartz then before limestone

[rustic talon]

120 Iron Ingots/ Copper Ingots a minute.

[sinful vale]

try to overclock your miners to get more minerals, it's the only thing that i would recommend overclocking tho

[rustic talon]

Indeed, I was just making an example of a good smelter setup

@sinful vale

[prime grove]

i am almost certain this is the first setup anyone would make

like from my perspective i invented that setup

[rustic talon]

Well I know some that split the conveyors with one splitter, it was just an example.

And not "anyone" would make it, I showed a few people this method and they said they would not think of it.....

[bleak coral]

At 120ppm I'd probably still just use load-balancing on the inputs, since 120ppm is so slow

and 3 splitters isn't that much room

[fiery fern]

i did mine diffrently aswell. instead of mergers after the smelters they just go straight into the next thing

[rustic talon]

I just do it this way to separate the smelters from constructers and such.

[fiery fern]

true but cause them all merging some belts stop every few seconds right?

[bleak coral]

That method is definitely the much more scalable and modular method, we call it manifolding

[sinful vale]

there is a 50 50 chance that people will start working with manifolds or load balancing, and don't tend to even think that the other exists

[rustic talon]

I had no idea what it was called, tbh

[bleak coral]

no splitters/mergers don't slow down belts

[rustic talon]

I just felt it was a good design.

[bleak coral]

it is a good design

[sinful vale]

they don't slow down, it's just as efficient, it's just that the manifold method has some start up time

[bleak coral]

if your mergers make belts stop, that's cause you're overloading the belts because you're merging to many items/minute

[rustic talon]

I also realized once reaching MRK3 you can Power Shard the miner x2 then have 240 Iron coming to the now 8 smelters

[sinful vale]

if everyone eventually realizes 1 or even the 2 of the methods on their own, there is a reason everyone sees them

they just work

[rustic talon]

I don't know load balancing at all...

[bleak coral]

load-balancing is when you split them all precisely

[sinful vale]

just put merger and splitters so that each machine is fed exactly the right amount

that is load balancing

[rustic talon]

Oh, so the thing I use to do xD

I hate myself xD

[bleak coral]

it's good for something like biofuel where you're hand feeding it so you care about the warmup time penalty of manifolding, or if ppm is really really slow and you don't want to wait for the system to warmup

that's its only advantage over manifolds: warmup time

[fiery fern]

i do load balancing too. tried the mamifolding but then belts got overloaded. or its cause i'm still at MK1 belts

[rustic talon]

I do not mind the startup, yes it takes time, but it works

I'm currently design a coal generator blueprint.

[sinful vale]

a simple load balancer

[bleak coral]

belts often get full on manifolds by design, because they need to fill up each machine. you may also have just done the math wrong and merged too much stuff

[sinful vale]

a simple manifold

[bleak coral]

I do prefer load-balancing and going straight from one machine to the next on simple iron/copper stuff while I'm still on mk1/mk2 belts because of the limited bandwidth

mk3+ belts though, manifold all the way

[sinful vale]

only thing that can go wrong with manifolds is if the input for the whole line is something very low like 15 or so, it will take a lot longer to start up, besides that you may have just tried to feed more than your input belt is able to sustain, but that is user error in general with any method

[fiery fern]

now that i think of it. it can be cause i have two iron nodes. should check in game but with you explenation i think they come together at some point and that makes it getting overloaded

cause now i'm only at 5 smelters

[sinful vale]

5 smelters are a 150 input, if you say you only have belts with 60 capacity, then i guess that is the issue

[fiery fern]

so building 2 manifolds should be better then?

[sinful vale]

3, if you built 2, then you would need 75 belts, still the same problem

[balmy spindle]

My current setup im working on runs on manifolds only

but then again i have up to mk 3 belts unlocked

theres no way im load balancing this setup

[minor cradle]

manifolds when done correctly will load balance themselves given time

[balmy spindle]

yeah ik

which is why i prefer manifolds over load balancers as they load balance with less space needed

however just take longer which isnt an issue

[mild wind]

time is no issue in this game

[balmy spindle]

exactly

[sinful vale]

aren't those sets of 9?

[balmy spindle]

Yes

for the constructors a tthe bottom

[rustic talon]

Are those bottom fed?

[balmy spindle]

im splitting a 270 into 135 for rods

125 / 9 is 15

[sinful vale]

then a load balancing would be splitting the line into 3 and splitting each into 3 again

[balmy spindle]

that would still take up some space

i want to try and compact each segment as much as i can on one floor

for other items i plan on load balancing

but for the basic items manifolds or load balancers work

just that manifolds are a bit easier to make

[minor cradle]

i had to dig up my first playthrough to find my old load balancing disaster its such a mess

the method i use now is much nicer

[balmy spindle]

let me go find my current coal setup

the pipe work on your setup there is much nicer than mine lmao

[sinful vale]

i don't like to look at pipes clipping foundations on angles that aren't 90°

[minor cradle]

yea my first playthrough i thought i was doing good i look back like *face palm!

[balmy spindle]

Now i want to remake my coal gens so that my coal generators to look neat

ok i cba editing that message

this was my first coal gen on this save

[minor cradle]

one of my ealier setups i like to keep in in single line now unless there is no room available

[balmy spindle]

then this is the more recent one

[minor cradle]

very nice

i love the use of frame foundations and everything routed up through floor

[balmy spindle]

Yeah i got the inspiration from imkibitz's steel production which i use

routing lifts through frames seemed like a cool idea for the coal generators and it worked so yeah

[minor cradle]

indeed every techniqe i employ has come from im kibits or totalxclipse or some other youtuber

[balmy spindle]

only problem is those pipes arent exactly 90 degrees

which imma remake my coal gens so its just like that but with 90 degree pipes and a few more coal gens

[minor cradle]

eh cant really tell though i find using the vertical type if i place it say from gen to pipe and it doesnt look right ill go pipe to gen or vice versa seems to work wonders

[balmy spindle]

with the coal around that area ill be able to have 72 coal gens

wait

thats with over clocking

[rustic talon]

I just run the pipes in the water.

I build an underwater network.

[balmy spindle]

I want to do that once i get around oil

[rustic talon]

Yes more work, but it hides the piping.

The blueprint I showed is meant for piping to run underneath.

[minor cradle]

with water turbines in the back

[frosty owl]

When you build pipes in vertical mode, they usually snap at 90 degrees angles, but there are exceptions when the height difference between the 2 parts you're connecting is too little
It also makes a difference whether you build from A to B or viceversa
E.g: A is high, B is low. If you connect A to B the pipe will be straight from A and vertical from B. Viceversa it'd be straight from B and vertical from A

[minor cradle]

that is indeed what i was referring to

[fiery fern]

is it possible to make like some sort of smart storage thing early game? of only when you unlocked the smart splitters

[minor cradle]

can unlock smart splitters fairly early game

[frosty owl]

You need smart splitters, yes

[fiery fern]

okay thanks guys 😄

[frosty owl]

You can make something CLOSE to being "smart" but it requires unholy amounts of mergers and splitters contraptions

[wind spade]

why are you spamming in here with this? remove before mods do

[sand garnet]

he left the server

[frosty owl]

One slammer gone, comes another? 🤣

Slammer.... Imma leave that

[sinful vale]

well, considering you can get smart splitters as early as tier 2, i don't think you have too much to worry about in the early game

[rustic stream]

So im working on building a stupid-big storage facility. I've laid down like 91x85 foundation platform up in the air, and have already placed and almost wired up 30 train station (3 floors, 10 stations per floor). Each station will have 8 cars. Each station will pair with another station at my factories. For example I have an plastics/rubber factory that will have 8 train stations.

My question is, are there any videos or material out there that goes over how to do mass sorting? My plan is to have a whole section worth of storage containers for each material

[frosty owl]

Oh yeah, plenty. You should have a good selection if you search "automatic sorting/storage system satisfactory" on YT

[rustic stream]

googled "satisfactory large scale sorting", this was the first result: https://www.usenix.org/legacy/event/nsdi11/tech/full_papers/Rasmussen.pdf
will be trying this later

[abstract copper]

Uhhh is that even possible to implement in satisfactory? I just took a glance but don't see how it translates to item sorting.

[mild wind]

i mean with smart splitters u can kinda sort anything with enough

have 2 of the 3 ends be smth specific

one of the exits doesnt sort

[frosty owl]

As impressive as that is... I think YouTube has better tutorials for this 😂

[near sorrel]

@frosty owl yes math and meta

[frosty owl]

The input you use there is a manifold, right?

Double one

[near sorrel]

yes double manifold on pretty much everything in my copper line

[rustic stream]

I find the phase one of the TritonSort Architecture rather applicable...im also 8 beers deep so anything is applicable at this point

[near sorrel]

other than the cables going to the manufacturers

but they are kinda out of the line

[frosty owl]

So the machines on the extremities will fill up immediately. The closer you get to the center of the row, the slower the flow of resources

[near sorrel]

right I noticed that

the last four on my wires line 2 on each side... aren't filling up with input as the other ones did

[mild wind]

tf is a double manifold

[rustic talon]

Is this good?

[frosty owl]

Manifold with resources coming from both sides

[rustic talon]

The Blueprint in general xD

[near sorrel]

how did you make that... it is quite nice and very easy to read

[mild wind]

oh the thing with a splitter on top of another one got it

[rustic talon]

I drew it?

[near sorrel]

a double manifold has one input split into two lines that then go into a series of constructors or smelters or what not

and then once they do that they all merge in the center to have a single output

[frosty owl]

Should work 👍
Also, @near sorrel this can be taken as a good example, even if it's not double manifold

[mild wind]

ohh that ok

[near sorrel]

using what program

[rustic talon]

Krita.

[frosty owl]

All the Smelters in the right and the constructors on the left will struggle for a while before reaching 100% efficiency

[rustic talon]

It took me quite sometimes though...

Well it is Manifolded

[near sorrel]

i have never heard of krita so I must check that out

[rustic talon]

Manifolds take time

[near sorrel]

I have an idea for a double inverted manifold... not really sure that it is useful but I think it will look pretty

[frosty owl]

Draw.io is cool too. Still a website

[mild wind]

i wanna see it

[frosty owl]

Like feeding the manifold from the center instead of the sides?

[near sorrel]

well right now it is just a thought... so I have to build it... test it... draw it... and then do some optimizing

[mild wind]

whats the main idea doe

[near sorrel]

it may have a different name

but my idea is to take a single input like you would with a double input... and split it

then once it is split... you send it to two sets of constructors... the same as you would with a double

but once it gets tot hat series of lines, you then split it going both left and right and not just straight down a line

so you then would have 3 outputs

but you could use it to make several different products off one line of inputs

[mild wind]

id have to see that written down or smth that makes no sense to me lmfao

[near sorrel]

well you would have 4 rows of constructors

[mild wind]

mmhm

[near sorrel]

with 2 lines coming in the middle of two of the rows on the left (which means they would have to face away from each other) then on the right you would have the same thing

[rustic talon]

Of how many constructers though? Like 4 rows of what?

[mild wind]

i think its a general thing

just an idea

[rustic talon]

Also that design I posted is yet to be finished.

[near sorrel]

and then on the far left and far right you just have one line coming out... and in the middle you would have two rows of constructors merging

[balmy spindle]

so hang on

[mild wind]

ok i see what ur saying

[rustic talon]

The design is going to finish at reinforced iron plates and rotors, at a high amount

[balmy spindle]

you have 1 input right

[near sorrel]

so you could have say the constructors on the right making iron rods... the ones in the middle making screws (if you have the alt)

[balmy spindle]

and thats just split into 2 which goes into 2 constructors

[near sorrel]

and then the one on the left making iron plates

[near sorrel]

that would depend on the speed of the lines you have for input

[balmy spindle]

fair enough

[near sorrel]

you could also do a really goofy tree type thing that would split two lines into four but merge those down to 3 lines so that it's fed off a higher input rate

[rustic stream]

so i based my main factory's layout on the double manifold idea where i have the output between two machines, and the input on the outside

[balmy spindle]

@rustic stream thats just like my factory

[frosty owl]

Kinda like this?

[near sorrel]

if each block represents the over all input line then yeah I guess

[rustic stream]

what i found was that it's not very scalable since you get bottle necked by the output. i'd highly recommend just staying with the single manifold for anything and then just expanding to the sides

[frosty owl]

Yeah, had to simplify that xD

[near sorrel]

let me go see if I can use that website draw.io you said

[balmy spindle]

@mild wind remember the factory i sent yesterday

I just realised that all of that is going to get replaced after i unlock tier 5 and 6

[frosty owl]

I'd say he could go for a balanced system too, if he has the space ^^

[rustic stream]

again, the problem with the double manifold here are the merger line, it gets maxed out super quick

[balmy spindle]

I mean you could scale a double manifold but it would look ugly

[abstract copper]

Injected manifolds ftw

[rigid knoll]

it doesn't look too bad if you're careful with a vertical lift for the full belt

[rustic stream]

right, when i was building mine, i didn't plan for the output being maxed out, so a mk.4 belt carries 480 resources, meaning that each side of a double manifold can produce up to 240 ppm

[frosty owl]

Either upgrade you belt or go for double manifold or triple...
Or like Franimus said, you just inject whenever

[balmy spindle]

ig but make sure that someone with ocd doesnt see your factory

[rustic stream]

so for like a regular screw production where you make them out of rods, you can have up to 6 constructors on each side

anything beyond that, you have to double up on the output

[balmy spindle]

for my iron rods since i can only use mk 3 convs i need 9 per side

[frosty owl]

You can still just "take out" an output line whenever it's full.
E.g.: You produce 800, you get a 480 line and a 320 one

[rustic stream]

like with a belt lift?

[balmy spindle]

ofc if i split the 270 to 135

[frosty owl]

Or even just a stakable conveyors

[rustic stream]

right right

[frosty owl]

That kind of reason is why I have a floor or 2 below to manage belts ;)

[rustic stream]

i have that for my screws....i guess it all depends on how you wanna lay it all out, i just know with my main factory im running out of room for the earlier stages of the production. and that's a great idea....basically have all the manifolds on one level, and bring the outputs to a level above...ill take that advice when I re-arrange the main factory

[frosty owl]

Verticality opens up a new dimension of possibilities. Pun intended

[rustic stream]

i know there's a huge potential for these, i just use them to "inject" a storage container so i can drop off early production items like coal or ore

[abstract copper]

Btw I had a chicken bacon ranch sub for lunch today, delicious! 😆

[rustic stream]

for sure, i have my first floor smelting and making simple things like plates and wire, then middle floor is for storage, and top floor is for more complicated stuff like encased beams, steel beams, heavy frames

[rustic stream]

https://tenor.com/view/snoop-dogg-yes-yes-yes-oh-fo-sho-for-sure-nods-gif-12018369

[opaque root]

damn you devs for making miner/smelter ratios 1:2 and 1:4 but splitters 1:3!

[near sorrel]

this is idea one

[balmy spindle]

thats why manifolds exist

[frosty owl]

Splitters can be 1:2 too ^^

[balmy spindle]

^^

[opaque root]

sure, but that's a waste

[balmy spindle]

wdym

[opaque root]

waste of splitter volume / space / cost

[balmy spindle]

Manifolds use up less space

[frosty owl]

Very compact design! Will take a bit for the top row to get to 100%, but it saves a lot of space

[near sorrel]

the benefit as i have recently learned outweigh the draw backs by a lot

[opaque root]

sure, but only because the original ratios are annoying

[frosty owl]

Just be mindful of placement of power poles and possibility of walkways to go through

[frosty owl]

But balancing is da way

[balmy spindle]

Manifolds are balanced 💢

[near sorrel]

well then you could also do this with 2 inputs which I am going to illustrate in a moment... that way if you have like mk 4 belts and have 900 output... you can separate it into 2 lines that then run at 450 each

[rustic talon]

This is currently where I am at

[frosty owl]

Pft yeah...
Ya'll are lucky the game aproximates, or those last machines would NEVER get to 100% by themselves

[abstract copper]

You can prolly connect the smelter outputs directly to constructor inputs

[balmy spindle]

i mean still would be 100%

[abstract copper]

If they are producing the same thing

[rustic talon]

This is a reinforced iron plate/ rotor build.

[frosty owl]

Absolutely! Like that you can place "arrays" of machines.
Making them of the right size can help you divide up large productions in manageable chunks

[rustic talon]

Blueprint.

[balmy spindle]

lets say you had a 240 line for iron ingots, the consumption will always be 30 ore / min for 30 ingot / min on normal recipe as long as you have 8 smelters

all the manifold does will overfeed the first smelters then all of them will reach 100% efficiency at some point

[rustic talon]

I am going to have to make a new Page for the assembler section.... because things are going to get difficult

[balmy spindle]

so none of the resources are even wasted

ofc balancers have their advantage over manifolds as well

but manifolds are so much better for compact factory designs

[mild wind]

balancers are even from the start but are bigger(and look way cooler when running)

manifolds take time to break even but are way more compact

[frosty owl]

Exept for time
And the ones stuck inside all the machines except the last one, so in your example about 700 ore ^^

[balmy spindle]

Time means nothing in this game

[frosty owl]

Time means game in this me

[balmy spindle]

and if youre supplying too much then you can either overclock (if you really want) or have it overflow to some other system

if you undersupply then underclock

[frosty owl]

Same as with a balanced one, really...

[balmy spindle]

Yeah

Manifolds are basically balancers once they both are fully operational

[frosty owl]

Exactly
But show their state a bit worse

[balmy spindle]

eh i mean depends how you set them up really

for a basic iron factory you most likely would want to use balancers

same with other bigger and more complex factories

[frosty owl]

You usually end up having to check half the line if you run into issues
With balancing checking one is enough

[near sorrel]

ok

[balmy spindle]

Yeah thats like the downside of manifolds that i hate

[mild wind]

until you try to route it into a heavy mod frame factory.... ive seen the horror of trying to balance that im not going back

[balmy spindle]

Yeah

ive tried it once with pak's util mod

[near sorrel]

@frosty owl That input system works for other stuff too not just my output system

I use that on my iron factory because I have 900 out on the miners but only wanted 2 lines

[frosty owl]

Manifold is really useful with more then 3/4 machines

[balmy spindle]

Yeah thats why i said 240 line

at first i was gonna use 60 line but was like "you can just use 1 splitter"

[near sorrel]

so I can have 2 belts running at 450 instead of 3 belts at 300

[frosty owl]

Until you find alt recipes and figure that 1 screw constructors can feed 1 HMF manifacturer at 100% ;D
Made my day

[mild wind]

WAIT WHAT

[near sorrel]

the daggum casted screw blueprint is amazing

[balmy spindle]

im going hard drive hunting once ive unlocked tier 5 and 6 to get that alt recipe

[near sorrel]

what is it 1 ingot to 54 screws

[mild wind]

I UNLOCKED THAT AT SOME POINT BUT THOUGHT IT WAS USELESS CUZ I WAS JUST GRINDING AWAY AT THEM

[near sorrel]

that was the first alt i got and i didn't even understand it

[mild wind]

OH MY GOD I CAN CUT DOWN ON SO MUCH

[balmy spindle]

guys

[near sorrel]

oh yeah... that alt is amazing

[balmy spindle]

is the alt recipe for rotors using copper sheets good?

[rustic stream]

5 iron ingots to 20 screws

[balmy spindle]

i assume it is

[mild wind]

what r the other 2 options

[near sorrel]

oh ok... I knew it was something

[balmy spindle]

No just saying because i have it unlocked

[mild wind]

oh

[frosty owl]

I guess you could call that... A series of manifolds feeded by a 3:2 balancer

[mild wind]

i mean its just adding more stuff you need to route in

[balmy spindle]

le tme do the maths for how much copper sheets i produce per min

135/min

from 1 270 line

[frosty owl]

Oh yeah!!!
And ||THERE'S AN EVEN BETTER ONE||

[mild wind]

what

tell
pls

[near sorrel]

I have no idea what to call it... but it makes sense for some situations... I came up with that idea after I built my iron factory so I am not too concerned about it right now

[rustic stream]

the copper to rotors recipie i think is "easier" but the math gets all funky cuz you need 22.5 sheets and it gives you 11.25 rotors per min

[frosty owl]

YES

[near sorrel]

thats just when you quadruple it.. then you have an easy output math

[mild wind]

90 sheets/ 4 mins, 45 rotor/ 4 min

[near sorrel]

11.25 X 4 is going to give you a whole number

[mild wind]

or ya quadruple it

[near sorrel]

and with 22.5 X 4 you will also get a whole number

[rustic stream]

tru

[frosty owl]

Oh no, the one cyborg mentioned xD
But it's not called casted screws

[near sorrel]

What other screw alt is there?

[mild wind]

steel screw?

[near sorrel]

oh yeah the steel screw one

[frosty owl]

Casted screw is with iron ingots

[near sorrel]

yeah I have that one

[sinful vale]

steel screws is the 2nd best screws

only thing better would be no screws

[near sorrel]

don't tease me

[mild wind]

except quadrupling it means u need 780 screw/min

[near sorrel]

so make 780 screws a min...

[balmy spindle]

thats not much

[near sorrel]

or just double it and don't worry about the uneven math

[mild wind]

it isnt oh god

[frosty owl]

What's the big deal?
If you have stell screws ;D

[mild wind]

i dont

[near sorrel]

Systematic... you are me about a week ago

[topaz hedge]

So now that fismas has died down.. I see more questions about coal powerplants.. that makes me happy

[balmy spindle]

i only have the basic screws recipe

[near sorrel]

I had no idea you could build as big as some of these people do...

[mild wind]

i have like 30 hrs in the game and cant even play till friday

[frosty owl]

The pain....

[near sorrel]

the math some of these guys work rival triginometry

[topaz hedge]

Some of us cheat and use a calculator (:

[balmy spindle]

but i make 540 rods per min

so thats what

[mild wind]

the math ive seen some of these guys do is more complicated than my calc work

[near sorrel]

There is a guy Systematic that has 80 hours into just building the infrastructure of his factory...

[balmy spindle]

2k+ screws per min?

[frosty owl]

What do you mean by "infrastructure"?

[near sorrel]

there is a built in calculator in the game too

[topaz hedge]

There's a few of us that have 80 hours just placing machines for our factory >.>

[near sorrel]

uh... like all of his stuff to make stuff

like the way that all the belts run

and where everything is going to sit

[mild wind]

so you mean the factory...?

[near sorrel]

no no... not the actual building stuff stuff

the layout, the belts, the splitters, the mergers

the pipes

[topaz hedge]

I usually do all that stuff after the machines are placed

[near sorrel]

well I am sure you have talked to signpost

[frosty owl]

Geez, after that much, I'm still not even halfway on belting my big bad boy aka, very-motor-factory

[near sorrel]

I have just been building for what I need right now... It's hard for me to plan ahead when I don't even know what I need

[rustic stream]

make a spreadsheet

they've helped me a TON!

[near sorrel]

I tried to use a calculator website

[topaz hedge]

@frosty owl One machine at a time my friend, I probably spent 80 hours building my first megafactory

[near sorrel]

but I just got confused

[topaz hedge]

@near sorrel once you get a little bit more into it, the calculator starts making sense.

[frosty owl]

Well, I mean, sooner or later you run out of brain capacity to lay out a decent plan... so you gotta start strategizing when over a certain scale, I guess

[near sorrel]

yeah probably

[mild wind]

i am always out of brain capacity in this game

[near sorrel]

I just don't do anything thinking ahead... tis why I am no good at chess

[frosty owl]

Dear lord no... how would I know where I end up if I didn't know where ALL the machines are?

[rustic stream]

that's why one giant factory in this game is super hard to accomplish and make efficient

[topaz hedge]

same. don't try to do it all at once, I'll do one section at a time, like I'll build and belt all the machines to make ignots, then I'll build and place all the constructors, and I move down the line until it's at a stopping point, or finished

[rustic stream]

just make a ton of small factories, especially for the smaller stuff, then make specialized factories for things like electronics, advanced stuff etc

[frosty owl]

As long as you don't go on massive scales, you can finish the game in leisure without using one
The in-game calculator can be enough for the needs (there is Discord too after all xD)

[near sorrel]

I tend to just tackle problems as they come up

[topaz hedge]

the biggest thing is if you do something large scale. try to make it "pretty" and "neat" it helps if you do run into issues or have to change something.

[near sorrel]

yeah... thats why I have definitely done an overhaul of my stuff... but now I am just laying stuff down until I have the capacity to build a large scale

[frosty owl]

I prefer placing the machines before belting and piping. It's easier to accomodate for anything if you notice you run out of space anywhere or want to add a new floor... Well, I guess it just makes it easier to design the whole thing

[topaz hedge]

I was able to build a "small" quickwire factory next to my big factory and connect them together to get what I needed.

[near sorrel]

like I just recently got to a point where I can have a decent amount of power output

[topaz hedge]

automated power is nice lol

[frosty owl]

Overhauling is a BIG part of this game ;)

[near sorrel]

also @mild wind also if you haven't been using the foundations (like I wasn't) they make organizing everything 2000x's easier... since you can snap everything on a really fancy grid

[rustic stream]

speaking of overhauling, just found out that the satisfactory-calculator.com can mass delete stuff and drop it ALL into a single crate next to you....extremely useful

[mild wind]

oh i def am

[frosty owl]

Quite. There is a mod to do that in-game too

[near sorrel]

Yeah I had no idea they had a real point in the game... thought it was a waste of time and concrete

[rustic stream]

is that cheating tho? like i cleaned up my map of all of the crates using the online tool

[topaz hedge]

@rustic stream it can, just don't go and delete and entire factory with it and end up with like 8 loot crates lol

[frosty owl]

Lemme tell you a tale...
||You better step up you concrete production and storage soon||

[rustic stream]

do you guys think using mods or the online tool cheating?

[topaz hedge]

nah. I've used the calculator to clone and move an entire building because I didn't like where it was at.

if you build modularly, you can use the tool to scale your factory as well.

[frosty owl]

I'd call it so, yes. But of the most trivial kind

[topaz hedge]

It's sort of cheating, but if you're not cheating you're not trying

[frosty owl]

Some mods are more "cheaty" then others

[near sorrel]

...I mean... mods aren't inherently cheaty in any game

[frosty owl]

Like... Permaday....

[near sorrel]

If you use something to get a hand up on competition... cheaty

[rustic stream]

like i spent probably 3 hours placing over 8000 concrete squares for a storage facility, then to find out there is a mod that can do it in like a minute

[near sorrel]

but if you are using something so you don't have to spend countless hours redoing stuff over and over again... i mean it's just a short cut

cheating would be replicating something without having the proper resources... using the resources differently is not bad in my opinion

[topaz hedge]

So I'm a cheater :p ohwell.

[near sorrel]

that being said... it's ultimately up to you and your conscious

[rustic stream]

right....that site can just add stuff right to your crates

want some turbo engines for no reason? you got it, its just a click away

[near sorrel]

well wolfgrim... if you have "beaten" the game as it stands... do what you want

thats another thing too

[frosty owl]

I'll lay down my exp for you: I played strictly vanilla for the first few playthroughs (exept the third where I went full "new machines" mods), then decided on big projects and went for mods that assist in building to save time. But at that point I already experienced all the vanilla game once

[topaz hedge]

The calculator can just unlock alts for you.. that's probably cheating but since I already went and collected all the hdd's on my first playthrough.. I'm not doing it again lol

[near sorrel]

right

[frosty owl]

Or even thrice in some cases...

[near sorrel]

see that is totally different

if you have gone in and already did everything the "right" way... who cares what you do after.. .that's ultimately up to you

[frosty owl]

Last playthrough I just opened up the consolle and said "unlock it all"
||Then proceeded to activate the no-cost cheat||

[mild wind]

i have 5 industrial storage crates full... is that enough

[topaz hedge]

I don't think you can really "cheat" but it depends on what you're doing I guess. there's a fly mod, never needed it. you could spawn a chest of turbomotors for no reason, but why? if you want points you can just spawn tickets too - now that's cheating

[frosty owl]

Should be, as long as you keep providing at least 15/min just in case

[rustic stream]

what is considered a playthough? (sorry maybe this is getting off topic in this chat)

[near sorrel]

......if it all doesn't cost...... then what is the point? personal curiosity

[topaz hedge]

getting to tier 8 I suppose

[frosty owl]

I call that one "run" of the game
You unlock everything, are satisfied (or not) with the result, and decide to stop or start a new world

[rustic stream]

ahh...

[topaz hedge]

or, after it's all done you could build a megafactory that makes 1 thing. like turbomotors, supercomputers, etc

[rustic stream]

when we got the game like 2 months ago, me and my 2 buddies put at this point like 500 hours into my save

[near sorrel]

How many of you guys play by yourselves?

[frosty owl]

I'm trying to make the biggest possible (and coolest possible) factory I can fit into my laptop's limited RAM
So it's all about placing machines and thinking about how to connect them and order them the best having all the possible choices and not having to delete stuff first to make space for it xD
(For reference, I went this route after the 900ish hours mark)

[near sorrel]

OH ok...

[rustic stream]

i do now, since im so far into the game i need trains which don't work in multiplayer

....they do, but buggy af

[near sorrel]

So there is an obvious goal... I got scared after seeing kibitz build his 400k MW Nuke plant... and it lagged ever so slightly... I was like... I will never make it to that point with my computer

[frosty owl]

True story

[near sorrel]

I have always... and watched very little youtube about it

literally only got interested in the game because of neebs

...this is going general again isn't it

Im good at that4

[frosty owl]

If it can help as reference, I could run 1.1 machines with still 1.2 GB left out of 8GB

[frosty owl]

Don't spoil your first run xD
Experience it fresh!

[near sorrel]

Uh... I have an ROG laptop that I bought specifically for music production... don't know much about it after that

[frosty owl]

It's all about the RAM pretty much

[near sorrel]

I don't remember how much I have

[frosty owl]

I'd say 8 or 16 at least. 32 if it's quite expansive

[topaz hedge]

well ram is used for loading the save and it's cpu power after that. I'm lucky enough to have a pretty powerful rig.

[near sorrel]

I have 16 gigs of ram

i7 processor at 2.6 and 2.59 ghz

atleast that's what it says.. i think'

[frosty owl]

2k machines should run easily

[near sorrel]

what is a 2k machine?

[frosty owl]

"k" as in "thousands of"

[near sorrel]

oh ram wise

gotcha

[frosty owl]

I mean that RAM wise you should be able to handle a world with 2 thousands machines running in it

[near sorrel]

believe it or not but audio production and editing takes almost as much ram and cpu usage as games like satisfactory

ah i see

[frosty owl]

Editing in general sucks RAM and CPU a lot :\

[near sorrel]

yeah... well... if you saw the kind of things I did... you would probably cry slightly

[frosty owl]

With my measily 8GB I managed to run out of RAM using PS... go figure...

[frosty owl]

You make such bad music? xD
Wdym?

[near sorrel]

I have this instrument I been using that is digitally patched... one vst and about 10 lfo's and a few "formula" controllers to make a seemingly random sounding vst

[frosty owl]

Also, #off-topic-general

[topaz hedge]

I probably have almost 2k machines

[rustic stream]

what's your gpu?

[frosty owl]

All running?

[topaz hedge]

2080

[rustic stream]

damn, i got a 2080 super and it's running at 89%....also sorry for perpetuating off topic convo

[topaz hedge]

Most of them, yes. a big chunk of my total machines is in my supercomputer factory, or for power generation

I play with vsync turned on which helps keep my gpu usage down a little.

[frosty owl]

What % of them is decorated too?
Just wondering about the general item count

[topaz hedge]

most of the item count in game are the trees that can be destroyed, or items on belts.

on belts/in machines

[frosty owl]

Not quite. Most trees aren't even considered unless you load that area of the map or one close to it. Almost all items made by the player instead add up to both the render count and the... "calculation count"? The count of items "of which's state the game need to keep track and update"

So while the items on belts are bad on GPU, they don't affect AS MUCH the RAM (it's more about the NUMBER of conveyors segment, then their lenght or how many items are on them)

[topaz hedge]

hm

168km of belts

Here's my map so far with machine/belt counts. this is about 600 hours on my 2nd playthrough

[rustic talon]

This is a Reinforced Iron Plate/ Rotor production line

I will be making more blueprints later.

I hope it is easy to understand.

[mild wind]

thats actually pretty handy

[rustic talon]

Is it easy to understand?

[sinful vale]

easy enough, yeah, good job

[tender compass]

working on some simplified stencils for diagramming.
What do you all think? It's still WIP, and these will be accompanied with rudimentary structure images as well:
https://i.imgur.com/zKrDCsw.png

[tender compass]

ignore the 3 in / 1 out. :S

[mild wind]

I like em they’re easy to understand

[tender compass]

I think I finished the conveyor and pipe port set

[mild wind]

Maybe add like an identifiying letter in the empty spaces

S for smelter, C for constructor etc

[tender compass]

https://i.imgur.com/FhKesEx.png

These are just the ports. The blank space under the green/yellow ports will have the name of the structure

22 unique things, I think.

Going to work on power poles next :D

hmm... I think I'm missing some.

[oblique isle]

Btw, space elevator has 6 inputs

[tender compass]

oh, so it does.

Thank you! :D

[rustic talon]

What other production lines should I do>>

I'm going to do a simple iron and copper line

[dusky dust]

All the production lines!

[tender compass]

make batteries :D

[frosty owl]

All these neat graphs makes me wanna post a pic with my sketches on paper just to ruin the harmony 🤣

[frosty owl]

Looks hard to expand for many machines, but sure seems great to show belt connections in small arrays! 👍
Would love to be pinged when there's more ^^

[tender compass]

lol
Yeah, I'll not remember to do that... brain is fried :P
But I'll keep posting here :)

[frosty owl]

You REALLY dislike trains that much or did you just disable them in this screen? 😂

[frosty owl]

I'll hope to be online at the right moment then ^^

[tender compass]

lol
As far as what these are, they're intended to be used with diagram software, with object links (the proper way to do lines) - and so the colored parts will be object connection points

Power pole connections
https://i.imgur.com/QCly8HW.png

[frosty owl]

Why a "main" line for each? Wouldn't it be best to make them all look the same or have 2 different ones?
(One for power source, the other for the next power pole)

Talking about the green connection points

[tender compass]

visual organization, for power source flow direction

[frosty owl]

Then wouldn't it be best to have 2 bigger ones, for both the "input" and "output"?

[tender compass]

the larger one indicates that it's the source, and so if that line is moved, everything down stream will be unpowered

power connectors are all input/output

[frosty owl]

I guess it depends on how you implement it and fit it together with the other buildings...

[tender compass]

these aren't for buildings

[frosty owl]

Yeah, I meant one for the power source (input) one for the next power pole (output)

[tender compass]

because any of the smaller ones can be used for that

if you need a crap-tonne of machines powered, one mk3 pole can power 9 more mk3 poles. That's 81 machines with a single failure point.

it has no bearing on in-game design, only for human readability and understanding of the power flow direction

omg it's 1am. it was 10:45 the last time I looked >_>

I'm probably going to make these much more directional agnostic, so they can be rotated. Don't know yet, still preliminary designs.

BUT I'm going to bed, will work on it more tomorrow

oh @frosty owl - When I get happy with what I have, I plan to host the images on my github (AeSix on there too) - so you can check there for updates :)

[frosty owl]

I guess I'll have to finally understand how that whole chabang works... 😅

[tender compass]

pretty simple, actually. If you take the time to look at all the things and read. If you can use facebook, you can browse github :)

[rustic talon]

Simple Copper Production Blueprint!

Just making a portfolio for these bad boys, hopefully I can help newbies with these....

[frosty owl]

Yeah, "if you take the time to".... 😅😂

[frosty owl]

There's already some materials on the wiki. Check them out so you don't end up realizing you made duplicates ;)
Nice idea, though!

[rustic talon]

I just feel some of the blueprints out there don't do a good job, so I'm designing a bunch of Blueprints in hopes of helping those that need it.

Same idea for Iron

[vast jungle]

I you have a "4 input to 4 output" you might just skip the manifold in the middle.

unless you can do something useful with the space you get by setting the smelters as tight as possible.

[rustic talon]

Indeed, you could do that, these designs come from one of my bases, there is a smelting platform, then constructing/assembling.

You are very correct though @vast jungle I just want players to see the manifold design through and through as well.

[vast jungle]

Manifolds are great to keep things simple... but in this case they make the design both more complex and larger... it will need some text to explain WHY the design is good, even if its not as good in this example... Screw production might be a nice example, because it would require some more complex balancing for the 15=>10 distribution.

[rustic talon]

I understand that @vast jungle, I'm attempting to help a little bit, I will make variants from these where the manifolds between Smelters and Constructers are taken away.

Thank you for the feedback.

[vast jungle]

I just started with the game a week ago, so the "should I take a manifold" and "why is this damned piece not fitting where it belongs" is a very fresh memory for me 😉

[frosty owl]

Just imagining the smelters being on a different floor from the constructors can be enough to justify the menifold, doesn't it?

[rustic talon]

Well welcome to the game then!

Vencam go to sleep xD

[vast jungle]

maybe you could show a linear desing... where the smelters are with the constructors in one line and the manifold connecting both is just a straight line. This is not possible with load balancing 🙂

[frosty owl]

Load balancing is still bestest

[rustic talon]

To some, yes.

[vast jungle]

depends on the definition of "best"... which changes from usecase to usecase 😉

[rustic talon]

I will attempt this

[frosty owl]

Bestest is universal
Now enough memes, I'm just making a fool of myself

[vast jungle]

"HTTP Error 599: Out of memes"

[rustic talon]

Is this what you meant??

[elfin magnet]

i'm working on a factory that is 100% efficient but i am stuck on trying to make the basic items. They will be useless later on but i want to make it so that i can go ahead and have a line for every item

or should i scratch that idea and make what i use?

[deep compass]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Bynd7eBOU&t=544s

[rustic talon]

I mean for looks, I always create each and every item.

The blueprints I have provided will run at 100%

It will take a small while to get to that 100% mark because of the manifold though.

[elfin magnet]

The odd thing is, I consider myself decent at making high tiered production lines but the low tiered ones bore me XD

[rustic talon]

Indeed, too simple I'm assuming?

[elfin magnet]

Yes, no real challenge there. I mean, i can build the entrire thing in my head and then i'm slowed down by my ability to produce it. Where the higher tiers just make my brain go slower since theres alot more to think about

Now i guess i should go build my factory then...

[opaque kernel]

does anyone have a efficient blueprint for a oil production. Not too complicated since i suck

[rustic talon]

Explain oil production lol, I might can throw you one together.

[opaque kernel]

That's the thing i just started with the pipes back to my base and i have no idea what to do with now

[rustic talon]

I will do some research and throw you one together then, no problem.

[opaque kernel]

thx

[rustic talon]

@opaque kernel You mean a refinery setup correct??

[opaque kernel]

yes

[rustic talon]

Like plastic, rubber, etc... etc....

[opaque kernel]

yup

[rustic talon]

Awesome, will get started with the blueprint very soon!

Just had to clarify that!

[peak basalt]

Are you talking standard recipes? Or end game build with alts?

[opaque kernel]

standard

[peak basalt]

they are going to be different depending on what you make

plastic or rubber or 50/50

[opaque kernel]

is it not possible to make both

[peak basalt]

it is, just the recipes are a bit dif. sounds like your wanting 50/50 though

[opaque kernel]

yeah

[rustic talon]

Here is a simple pipe layout for the build

[peak basalt]

There is no 1 blueprint because you need to handle the byproduct as well. So you can make fuel or petroleum coke as the by product.

If you let the product or byproduct back up, then the other will stop production too

[peak basalt]

heavy oil residue is an alt recipe

[rustic talon]

I was more than certain it was a byproduct of plastic and such?

Is it just Oil Residue then??

[peak basalt]

its a byproduct too. thought that was the incoming.....

[rustic talon]

No the Oil Pumps are incoming

[peak basalt]

its fine then, but you still need to handle it. cant just leave it set.

[rustic talon]

I know, they asked for a simple design, I'm trying my best to give it to them...

[opaque kernel]

Thanks i will try and create it.

[rustic talon]

I'm developing the Conveyor Layout now.

Conveyor Layout.

@opaque kernel

[opaque kernel]

Thanks me and my friend will try to build it shortly

[rustic talon]

Awesome I'll send through DMs as well to be sure you can always access the Blueprint.

[peak basalt]

what are you going to do with the byproduct?

if you let it back up, the whole production line stops

[rustic talon]

That is up to them... they said simple.

[peak basalt]

and if the main line backs up, the byproduct stops

[rustic talon]

I designed something to get them started with Oil Refining.

They could technically run the Heavy Oil residue into another Refinery to make Petroleum Coke, then use that for Coal generators... I suppose, or some kind of aluminum something

Or just sink the byproducts.... that would also work

[peak basalt]

@opaque kernel Thats what i would do

the belts going to the awesome sinks are mk2s. If you upgrade them to mk3's you can get away with 2 awesome sinks

[celest kiln]

Isent there away to use the coke to make circuit boards I think

[peak basalt]

its an alt

[celest kiln]

Yeah I wouldn't put it in the sink though you can make circuit boards, aluminium and steal

Still you do you

[peak basalt]

he asked for the standard recipe

[celest kiln]

Oh

[peak basalt]

so thats what it that is

[celest kiln]

Sorry

[peak basalt]

no worries

[celest kiln]

Lol

[peak basalt]

personally, I'd get all the alts and do 300 oil to 900 plastic or rubber

but theres 3 or 4 alts in that build

[wind spade]

why sink the coke if you can use it for power

[sand garnet]

or steel

[peak basalt]

Steel was an alt recipe, he asked for standard recipes. And iv tried it for power, its not worth the trouble imo.

[hexed forum]

The trouble with power as part of an oil byproduct line is that the power gennys scale to demand

[peak basalt]

If he/she wants to change it, they can, I just gave the a blueprint for what I would do.

[hexed forum]

Which could potentially back up the byproduct

And is also why I want max consumption mode for fuel gens

[sand garnet]

in my save, I shoved part of it into residual coal gens, smart splitter to coke steel ingot machines that are always underfed lol

[peak basalt]

They asked for a standard recipe setup.. I told them early on, there is no 1 blueprint because you need to handle a byproduct. And then I gave the the easiest way to handle it.

Theres are several other ways to handle it, im just leaving that up to them if they choose to do so.

Personally, I do the 300 oil to plastic or rubber

And never touch petroleum coke

[sand garnet]

I still need to do proper plastic and rubber setups

couldnt be arsed to do that so far lol

[night jay]

I've got 300 oil turning to 300 rubber, so I turned the HOR into petroleum coke, then used some of the rubber line for my personal storage to create circuit boards.

[pine tangle]

[Looks at Mase's picture] Is there a web-app for making schemes like this?

[fierce ruin]

I just put all the residue i can't be bothered to math in to a big line of fluid buffers, and every hour or so i just flush them

[wind spade]

why would you do that

[sand garnet]

why not just convert to petroleum coke then and sink it at least

[wind spade]

convert to coke, put into coal gens

[mild wind]

Or use it for packaged diluted fuel

[magic shadow]

https://tenor.com/view/obama-what-seriously-wtf-gif-12341428

[warm trench]

unstonks

[magic shadow]

exactly

[warm trench]

literally just put some fluid buffers along the pipelines

flushing each hour = unstonks
losing oil (or whatever) = unstonks

[warm trench]

whats the website called to do this?

[fierce ruin]

Hahahahahahahah. I did it originally because I didn't have enough parts to make more refineries and then I just haven't changed it. I'm usually about 100m from my oil area anyway, it is not a big deal

i'm in the middle of a complete ground up rebuild on -every-thing

so unless I want to manually make all the parts for the refineries, there's more important things to be doing

[gleaming patio]

Hey whats the ratio of water extractors to coal gens again?

[night jay]

3 water extractors to 8 coal gens

splitt one of the water extractors intto two so then it's two pipes of 180

[gleaming patio]

that's without overclocking?

[night jay]

yes

[gleaming patio]

ohh cool

[night jay]

run the 180 lines to 4 coal gens each, so it splits 45 to every gen

[gleaming patio]

glad I checked, thought it was 1 extractor to 3 gens

[pine tangle]

45x8 and 120x3, to be precise. Be careful, as noted above, with piping.

[hexed forum]

It's pretty reliable if you are able to have your coal gennys by the water to create a manifold pipe between all the gens then each water gen to the 2nd, 4.5 and 7th junctions

[oblique hollow]

@sullen marsh ok so i did some math tests and......
It seems that for any power production building at 250%, the maximum base consumption of any building at 250% can only be 46,66% of the base production of the generator

in order to still be efficient

ok so what does this garbage i wrote mean?
Take any generator at 100 %: Multiply their power production value with 0,46666. The value you get is the maximum base consumption a building can have that this generator can supply if both are at 250%

[topaz hedge]

Nope, no trains. just belts and pipes.

[frosty owl]

@oblique hollow I thought of testing with just buffers, is that any different from refineries?

[oblique hollow]

yeah. Buffers cant starve

refineries give you active feedback with their lights and output

[frosty owl]

But you can still see if they're not getting enough fluid. Just check the valves, any that doesn't touch the red is underfed

Also, does using all sides of a junction (I usually do that) or not in the manifold make any difference?

[oblique hollow]

yea but with valves.... You got feedback pressure from thr buffers

[dusky dust]

I'd been struggling with that for awhile, and going in on both sides did not help me

My most successful setups were basically getting rid of manifolding altogether on the pipe, and doing a balancer. I've heard that even that ends up falling short after N hours, though

[frosty owl]

You think that'd affect things...? 🤔
Then I shall try both

[dusky dust]

Second-best I found was setting up a fluid buffer on the far side; that let stuff run at 100% for quite awhile (letting that fill up before starting up the machines). That'd eventually go below 100% too, though

[oblique hollow]

Yep. Tested that with Gabor

[frosty owl]

What?

[oblique hollow]

Had the same issues. Input was 600. Refineries were starving, even when all were limited with valves and prefilled

[frosty owl]

My arrays of 6 bauxite refineries seem to be fed nicely, though...

[oblique hollow]

6 is nothing lol

this issue is a 10+ split issue

[frosty owl]

It's 600/min

Why not just split to 2x300?

[dusky dust]

See I was having problems with HOR even on 300

[frosty owl]

And feed 5+

[oblique hollow]

apparently that didnt help when Gabor tried that

[frosty owl]

Ouff

[oblique hollow]

maybe it really is an issue with different fluid types???

Like..... Viscosity stuff

[frosty owl]

Wouldn't think so. The game surely doesn't take that into account

[oblique hollow]

Oh but fluids have viscosity values

dont just say no

[frosty owl]

I have an inkling of an idea of how much computing power is needed to simulate even simple viscosity.
It wouldn't make pipes easier to handle then conveyors for the CPU, IMO

[oblique hollow]

in the easiest case, the calculations would simply use Viscosity as a reducing factor for velocity

[frosty owl]

Also, the effects wouldn't be noticeable enough to justify the increase calculation cost