and even then, the original building made fuel and sunk the excess resin upstairs
#math-and-meta
signal sky
and it was converted from 15 refineries making fuel, to 24 making bottled water
So its a very well used building, not built for bottling water
frosty owl
Lucky me, I already discontinued all my packaging refineries when the update came out :P
signal sky
I was in the middle, well still am in the middle of diluted packaged fuel to turbofuel, when the update came out
who knew turning 1500 crude into turbofuel would take so long
frosty owl
I was waiting just for the update. Didn't want to redo it all...
Though in my case was recyled rubber not turbofuel
abstract copper
We started new game for 3.6
ornate ridge
when putting fluid buffers in a chain should I put a pump aiming towards a buffer and a pump going out of a buffer in a chain per buffer?
humble berry
💥
frosty owl
when putting fluid buffers in a chain should I put a pump aiming towards a buffer and a pump going out of a buffer in a chain per buffer?
@ornate ridge Depends on what you want to achieve, but I don't think you'd want/need to do that
Buffers don't block headlift, so there is no need for extra pumps. Keep in mind, though, that the buffers themselves have some height, thus you need some headlift to fill them up properly (the bigger one has about 12.5 meters of height)
E.g. If your fluid has 5m of headlift left and you try to fill up an industrial buffer, you'll only fill less then half of it. You can still get flow from the output (still with 5m of headlift), but the buffer won't fill up completely
oblique hollow
bigg buffer is exactly 12m , small one 8m
frosty owl
What McBigBrain said 👆
oblique hollow
did you give the Flow Rate Interpolator a try yet Ven?
frosty owl
Haven't played today :/
I'll probably do the day after tomorrow (I don't play much out of the weekends)
oblique hollow
alrighty then
vestal skiff
Is it me or is this horibbly wrong? : https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/b5k4o0/how_to_split_one_belt_equally_into_5_your_welcome/
On one side you have 1/3 of half the input on 3 lane and on the other a third of 1/2+1/3 of the input
frosty owl
What are those things.... Can't even tell if they are all splitters or not
And no, I don't think that's the way to do it. You need mergers too
vestal skiff
yellow?
vestal skiff
I do not understand
dull linden
some sides have yellow markings and some sides have green
vestal skiff
hooo ok the first one is a merger
frosty owl
The diagram the first commenter posted works, @vestal skiff
vestal skiff
ok I got it
frosty owl
I think that's way easier to understand ahaha
vestal skiff
I thought the first one was a splitter
dull linden
what i normally do is just split it into 6 and put the 6th output back into the input line
frosty owl
With, if he wanted to show how to split could've at least laid out the belts properly 😅
dull linden
way simpler that whatever the heck this is
funny story
thats exactly what he did
and im real dumb
vestal skiff
It's eactly this
It's great but you cannot split at 100% of the fastest lane you have
vestal skiff
The lane between the merger and the splitter need to have a greater capacity than the input
because of the feedback
frosty owl
Yep. But you can still split in 5 by splitting first the lane in 2, then splitting those in 5 and merging the 2x5 together
frosty owl
and im real dumb
@dull linden It's just a really bad picture. Correct, but bad at explaining the deal ahah
dull linden
are there splitters where you can limit the ratio of splitting?
frosty owl
Imagine your max belt is 100 (for semplicity)
If you try to split in 5, between the merger and the series of splitters you'd need to move MORE the 100 (100+1/6 of 100)
dull linden
like if I had 60 in I could set it to 75/25 to get 15 out on one and 45 out on another
frosty owl
So you split 100 in 2, divide those 2 in 5 and merge the result
frosty owl
If your max belt capacity is 100, you would have a bottleneck
vestal skiff
It's a solution to allow full belt speed
dull linden
ah
frosty owl
The result would be having 1/6 out of each output instead of 1/5
Not so sure if it'd be 1/6 precisely... But surely less then 1/5
dull linden
anyway do splitters exist where you can change the ratio for each of the outputs?
so I could split 60 into 15 and 45 but without having to use 3 splitters
is that a thing?
frosty owl
No
But you can do simething similar dividing high tier belts into lower tier ones
frosty owl
Like 180 split into 120 and 60
would be nice if you could underclock belts
@dull linden There has been so many posts about it in the Q&A ahahah
Overall, I don't think it'll be a thing. The current system still allows enough flexibility
frosty owl
I'm more concerned by some liquids that can't be sinked nor packaged :/
dull linden
can they be burned?
frosty owl
Fuel is the only fluid you can burn, so no :(
dull linden
ok i have question
would this work
all belts are mk 1
and the circles are splitters
frosty owl
It would work only when all first 3 machines and belts fill up with materials
At first it's 30 to the first mahhine, 15 to the second and so on
dull linden
so each machine would fill up slower than the last, but if the input in limited to 15 then it will still work
frosty owl
See "manifold" on the wiki for more ^^
dull linden
i wanted to do this with coal generators
frosty owl
Go for it, those fill up pretty quick usually
dull linden
epic
frosty owl
Games
dull linden
I used a reverse of that to get the inputs of a bunch of smelters
foundation frames are pog
frosty owl
Balancing the outputs of machines don't really have any use after all, I think
I used a reverse of that to get the inputs of a bunch of smelters
dull linden
yea, not to balance, more to get it all on one conveyor nicely
just occurred to me that it might work the other way around too
frosty owl
You know what "balancing" and "manifold" mean in this context?
frosty owl
How you're planning to feed the generators is manifold. If you were to feed them with 3 splitters (dividing 60 into 15 each) it would be balancing
dull linden
ah
so balancing is for even distribution simultaneously while manifolds are like a waterfall
frosty owl
You should always remember that balancing is superior to manifold. No question asked
(I'm meming, there's a bit of a debate over that)
dull linden
i mean manifolds look pretty spicy imo
frosty owl
Erethic. Get out of my sight 😠
Jokes aside, it has advantages and disadvantages over the balancing
frosty owl
Advantages: it's compact and simple to set up and expand
Disadvantages: takes time to reach max efficiency (need to fill up belts/storages), is harder to troubleshoot
dull linden
i mean its not that much harder
frosty owl
it looks so nice and then theres just that one wacky conveyor
Someone was in a rush ^^
dull linden
on the wiki no less
frosty owl
i mean its not that much harder
What is harder then what?
dull linden
troubleshooting a manifold
just make sure input = demand, and that your using the right conveyors
frosty owl
It's easier with balancers as you immediately see which belt gets how much. With manifold you usually need to check all the machines (usually the last ones, but if more then one don't work you need to check more and figure out HOW MUCH you're lacking)
dull linden
I mean both are pretty straightforward as long as you can do basic division
frosty owl
just make sure input = demand, and that your using the right conveyors
That's a good rule of thumb for any system, regardless of manifold or balancing 👍
I mean both are pretty straightforward as long as you can do basic division
Heh, I'll see if you say that again after getting to tier 7 😂
The issue is not quite with balancing ONE line.... It's how you combine all the different lines, which you balance with how many machines, what you do with overflow, if you should merge x instead of Y before balancing etc etc...
By the way, you can balance pipes too, with valves ^^
Just to know, what tier are you at in the game @dull linden
dull linden
dont remember numbers, but I just unlocked oil
frosty owl
The first headaches... Ahahah
That'll be fun ^^
dull linden
yea
my initial plan was to have all raw materials go to one place and just make everything there, but now im gonna do the smarter method and just have multiple factories
mostly cuz i dont want to bring oil all the way up a mountain
im in the dune desert
frosty owl
It IS pretty convenient to have everything in one place, but quite cumbersome to do without trains
dull linden
yea
plus I just dont have the experience with managing something that big and complex
frosty owl
You could set up a temporary oil station and expand it later in base once you get the logistics for it
Works to have some experience first too
dull linden
i went from omega spaghetti to trying to be an organizational god, maybe not the best idea
frosty owl
Hey, we try, we fail, we get better 😁
naive ingot
I feel like a SF factory tour could be a valuable part of a job interview for a lot of us.
dull linden
depends which factory
glacial hemlock
@dull linden i am sorry about that. The cursed image is by me
@vestal skiff there is a page called 'balancer' on wiki and that explains the mechanic. And you are right, your attached image on the 1:5 split is horrible.
frosty owl
Now, this is not about pipes, but...
I actually FOUND an an advantage in balancing the outputs of machines, @hot ginkgo @sand garnet @oblique hollow
Sure, ain't some world-braking news, but it still shows the usual advantages balancing offers
Could you guess what that advantage could be? ^^
(Hint: I noticed in the output of fused quick wire production)
oblique hollow
How dare you ping me in #math-and-meta with a non-pipe question!
sand garnet
lol i dunno, enlighten us
frosty owl
I'll ping you and all your family if I so wish!!
oblique hollow
Dont make me Interpolate your family into a liquid state
sand garnet
I'll have you end up in many folds if you keep up that attitude
oblique hollow
Ill unbalance your spinal column
frosty owl
Quick wire makes a lot of items each production cycle as we know...
So whenever your quick wire belt fills up, it takes ages to unload the storage of all the machines. Which makes the belts FEEDING the assemblers stop too
Now imagine you ||actually finally decided to|| balanced your assembler's input and you're troubleshooting said inputs: when the quick wire fills up, the belts clogs up and you need the machines to ALL start running again to check if everything works
With manifold output it takes AGES for all machines to start again as the last in line will struggle outputting its quick wire. Balancing the outputs would make them all start again at the same time as soon as the quick wire is being used again
Sorry for the text wall xD
sand garnet
if you really wanted to quickly get rid of your items, you can make a storage container teleporter
signal sky
given that the machines that make quickwire also hold a whole stack of it in them waiting to be output, if you are really using more than 500+ quickwire in the few seconds it takes machines to spin up, then its probably not balanced to begin with
sand garnet
yeah kinda seems like this boils back down to a 'consumption < production 'issue
frosty owl
I don't think I understand, @signal sky ...
However much the machine has in storage, as long as they can ALL output the same amount, they can start working tirelessly again even if their storage would empty very slowly
Basically the difference is: instead of emptying one machine at the time, you empty them all together (but slower)
signal sky
you might have to bust out the MSpaint cause I dont really get it
frosty owl
yeah kinda seems like this boils back down to a 'consumption < production 'issue
It can be useful if you're troubleshooting. Manually emptying the machines work too, obviously xD
sand garnet
im assuming you're referring to the belt being overloaded by the output per minute of the machines?
for example, screws having 270 per min output per machine on steel screws?
in cycles of a lot of them?
frosty owl
A very good drawing for @signal sky
Manifold case: when you empty storage, machine 1 will start producing right away, machine 4 will have issues emptying its storage and will start producing sporadically until the belt isn't overwhelmed by the other machines unloading their full storages
Blanced case: when you empty the storage, all machines start running (and will KEEP running) as soon as they output more then they produce in 1 production cycle
im assuming you're referring to the belt being overloaded by the output per minute of the machines?
@sand garnet Yes, but referred to when the machines outputs too much due to having its own storage full
signal sky
this is just the difference between manifold and balancers, but applied to the output rather than the input
frosty owl
You got it! 😁
signal sky
it takes a bit to get going, but after it does its the same
frosty owl
I was just surprised there could actually be ANY advantage at all in balancing the outputs
Not that I would ever do that again 
signal sky
still not worth it lmao
frosty owl
Worth for the meme :D
signal sky
Altho, I still dont think its an issue
if the machines get backed up, and machine 4 cant output efficiently to begin with, that's just cause its feeding more than it should cause of the internal buffer
and that would happen if you used a balancer too
frosty owl
When I had an mk3 cat. ingots belt feeding all quickwire assemblers and doig troubleshooting, having all the unused quickwire in the machine's storage was a pain to clean up :\
That's if you consider backing up only because of other machines not using enough, but whenever you're testing any back up needs to be cleared quickly
E.g.: testing the balancers for 10x8 quickwire assemblers, you don't really want to run around taking 500 stacks of quickwire out of every machine
Yes, of course, just setting up a sink is a workaround... But not my point xD
signal sky
dont need to test things if you build everything perfectly to begin with 
frosty owl
Go tell that to any players making such an array for the first time LMAO
But you're right, and I'd like to stress test if I can build perfectly by making a whole world in creative and turning it all on at once. Will be such a mess ahahah
No, I won't try that... I'll test sections individually first. I'm not that much of a masochist
(Creative=no build costs so no machines running)
signal sky
Testing my diluted packaged fuel system was fun, 80 packagers doing water, 50 refineries making HOR, 68 making diluted fuel, 68 packagers unpacking fuel, the bottle loop
still gotta see if the train can actually move 4000 fuel/m to the turbofuel place, but that comes later
frosty owl
About that... How do you plan on transporting that much, station wise, @signal sky?
Also: that's a lot of damage fuel!
signal sky
I have a train with 8 cars and a lot of fluid buffers to feed it
2x3 small buffers with mk2 pipes to rapid load the station, and then a big bank of larger ones to fill those up as the train moves, while the unpackagers feed those
frosty owl
But isn't that just 500 fuel/min per car? 🤔
You could nearly halve your cars if you go for 800ish or even 1000
primal scaffold
I dont get it
frosty owl
What don't you? ^^
muted crypt
Fluid wagons were buffed with U3.
signal sky
well, the max output of trains is a theoretical of whatever the inputs are
so 2x600 per min
muted crypt
They're 1600 now.
Still not as good as cargo wagons with packaged fluids, but..
Definitely much better than 500.
signal sky
but my things only makes 4000 fuel, divided into 8 cars, so yea, 500/m
all the pipes are very interconnected, so it wont prioritize filling one station and car over another
still need to do testing about the lower level buffers, cause idk if theyll give a true 600/m or not
cold snow
how far are you transporting it?
signal sky
this feeds the trains
from the north oil shore to the cliff plateau that is on the west side of the desert
frosty owl
Mhhh, I'd go for a 5 cars train. Seems like a lot of unnecessary more buffers 🤔
signal sky
eh, 5 cars vs 8, still needs 2 trains to pull it
frosty owl
Right, I always forget about my bias of not wanting to add more stations
I got too used to the narrow norther forest xD
signal sky
and its already built so, rip redoing it
frosty owl
Quite!
old ember
Quick question on trains. I currently have 2 locomotives pulling 12 cars. I've tested it, and it works just fine, but does the number change once the carriages are full?
hot ginkgo
Nope.
Hills impact it though.
If you have a perfectly flat track, 1 car can pull as many cars as you want.
old ember
Hills are for people who lack the will to build enormous sky bridges.
hot ginkgo
I lack the will.
old ember
By the time I've finished this one, I might too 😆
signal sky
its going from here to there, with the red line
still have to build all the refineries and gens to make and use turbofuel
and a few more train lines
peak basalt
@frosty owl did you end up seeing that train switch video the other day
frosty owl
Yes I did, @peak basalt I think you missed a notification xD
#satisfactory message
frosty owl
Ohh, thanks for the link!
pine tangle
For some reason, the behavior described in the report above makes me think about how the Factorio generally handles the railways.
Specifically, segmenting and signals.
Have Developers here ever told how logic behind rails supposed to work?
glacial hemlock
@frosty owl for the fused quickwire, do you know there is an even better alternative to balancer?
sand garnet
is it called... a manifold ? 
glacial hemlock
It is 1:1 dedicated machine. And i do it when the item flow is high and the next machine also demands a high input
90% is usually close enough.
old ember
I only realised yesterday that the diluted packaged fuel setup can be done with 1:1 machines. Makes the whole set up much more straight forward.
chilly wyvern
:dab:
bleak coral
I realized the same thing when I set up my first diluted loop a couple weeks ago, was a pain and a ton canisters to make work in manifold
dull linden
how complex is the super poggers turbofuel making thing?
the one where you can turn 1 node into like 400gw
bleak coral
the most complex part is the loop, which as mentioned right above is easier to do 1:1:1 packer:refinery:unpacker than to manifold
sand garnet
i need to build it too eventually just to be able to say I did it
bleak coral
I still haven't done a "full" build, I just did one that does 600upm turbofuel
good enough though
I've got 35GW total, which is plenty until I do my 100GW nuclear project
bleak coral
you should be able to just check a pole......
dull linden
yes but I havent built my full power plant yet
bleak coral
oh
bleak coral
north forest, the sulfur and coal aren't too far from the oil
dull linden
I was thinking of building it here, it has all the materials fairly close, plus if that open area is reasonably flat that is also great
old ember
Literally just finished building one there. 166 generators.
It's great, you have water, oil, coal and sulphur all nearby.
Downside, you need to built it tall!
Or you could use the nice flat area that I wasn't aware of right next door 🤣
dull linden
I do like flat areas
old ember
I enjoy building tall. Small footprints, tall structures.
dull linden
im really bad at building so I prefer to not be able to see my buildings
old ember
There are benefits to building like that. If I cock up a conveyor somewhere, fault finding is a massive pain.
south zephyr
how much power would a field of nuclear reactors the size of 1/4 of the map theoretically generate?
south zephyr
plus a whole lot of nuclear waste
dull linden
it would make 1181.25 GW
south zephyr
yikes
dull linden
because thats how many you can sustainably supply
south zephyr
imagine maxing out all of that power
hot ginkgo
For a while he aslo had to take 3 or 4 attempts to load his save.
bleak coral
had to get some ini settings from a dev to even get his game to load at some point and keep it from crashing cause it got so big
hot ginkgo
As fas as I know he did the .ini object increase. And some console command.
south zephyr
speaking of are there any commands that you would think are better than others?
bleak coral
r.Fog 0
they need to chill on the fog in some areas lol
it's not... great.... turning it off but sometimes I need to do it to be able to see anything
peak basalt
Sometimes you need to be able to see 4 meters in front of you. Sometimes more.
It gets pretty ridiculous
pine tangle
Sometimes it appears what no-fog->fog transition is busted. Some areas used to have zero (literally zero) visibility fog levels - did not checked after 3.5 hit.
bleak coral
they still get that way sometimes, it's not all the time but it lasts long enough I learned the command
pine tangle
...Some starts make you really despise morning fog...
hot ginkgo
I just learned of the FPS limit.
I rather enjoy that one.
Laptop heats up quick and starts to throttle if I let it roll up to the 90fps it wants at first. But setting it around 60 keeps the turbines from fully spooling.
peak basalt
ok, so now im home, and i do have a 9 and 10, but let me turn off some mods and see which one it might be
hot ginkgo
Thats interesting.
peak basalt
oh, guess that convo was in Q&A. but its the Powersuit mod or module for it.
peak basalt
i just went through disabling mod until it didnt show up
hot ginkgo
If you turn it back on, 9 and 10 show up again?
peak basalt
let me do that rq then lol
hot ginkgo
Also, should move this to the modding discord.
peak basalt
its kinda borderline isnt is. trying to figure out if its vanilla or a mod thats makign it show
hot ginkgo
Eh. I'm pretty sure its a mod. A few other people verified they don't have it in EXP.
frosty owl
It is 1:1 dedicated machine. And i do it when the item flow is high and the next machine also demands a high input
@glacial hemlock Right, that is a good point!
I personally got into that only quite recently so all my quickquire experience is based on when I still built without considering that possibility :/
I'll probably do so for most systems, going forward ^^
bleak coral
Looking at my HMF plans I might actually do a 1:2 setup on my steel ingots to steel pipes
it works out nicely with solid steel to pipes, and I'm only making pipes with the steel
and I'm moving almost 4000ppm steel ingots, so that'd save a lot of headaches
bleak coral
pure ingots + solid steel = $$$$
dull linden
i see
bleak coral
I'm putting in 1808.09 iron ore and 2487.5 coal and getting 3731.25 steel
dull linden
jeebus
bleak coral
sorry that's wrong, that includes my other iron stuff give me a second
actually that's 1,340.6 iron
almost a 3:1 iron ore to steel output
muted crypt
yup
random carbon
Hi I was just wondering if it would be more cost efficient if I were to make a power plant with coal in a canyon with water and coal and my base out of the canyon with power lines inning up to my base or have the water run up to my base and have the coal generators up next to my base
muted crypt
more efficient to bring the coal to water than to bring the water to coal
random carbon
Ok
native leaf
@amber marlin thx
fierce ruin
1+1=2
wind spade
why do people think this is funny and why do they spam this channel with this
peak basalt
Maybe thats all the education they received?
silent dock
1+1=2
@fierce ruin theres accutaly a mathamatical equation which proves 0=1 and 1=2 and also wtf dude do real math my guy
glacial hemlock
Ok 1+2+3+4..... = -1/12
dusky dust
For some values of =, anyway. :P
fierce ruin
@glacial hemlock Surely you misremember?
Maybe you mean something like 1/2-3/4+5/6...?
Or am I missing the joke?
cold snow
fierce ruin
Pretty interesting.
Not sure what it means or what use it is.
Personally I think it should use something other than a "="
cold snow
well it would be clear if they wouldnt leave out half the functions when writing it (clear as in you would see it isnt a simple = )
ornate ridge
is there a more efficient way to sink excess items from storage areas? currently I have item type sorted per bin column, then excess items gets overflowed to the top bin then to a merged bus lane into a sink, or I guess this works 😄
hot ginkgo
@ornate ridge https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553550313533997057/779023183780249630/Screenshot20200613-00241100000-1.png
Here's the easy to see version. My current storage is 3 of these side by side.
All items come down the middle. Gets sorted left and right. If it doesn't fit. Just keeps on going until it hits the sink.
charred dawn
EGG YOLKIO
night jay
So yesterday I set up my first oil settup with the update 3.5 stuff in early access, and noticed something a little off. I used valves to help perfectly split a 300 line into two 150s, by making the limit on each of the outgoing lines 150. However, when I checked later after everything had balanced out, 300 oil was going in, but 151 oil was coming out of both sides. I'll take a picture when I get home, but it was very weird.
frosty owl
It may go a little more or less the capacity, but should balance out at 150 overall...
night jay
That's what I thought, so I left it alone. Built an encased beam factory, came back, and it was still 151 on both sides. Could just be a display error cause according to my eyes the refineries were all at maximum efficiency, with no extra moving into them.
frosty owl
Mh. Should be the case. The pipe was MK1?
night jay
Yup. And I had the extractor set to 300, or maybe 300.5, but it doesnt matter cause pipe mk1 limit is still 300.
frosty owl
Quite. I'd trust it to work 👍
night jay
I mean, it works completely fine, it's just the graphics being a little weird.
oblique hollow
they are a little inaccurate
night jay
It's the first time I've used the valve to actually control the amount of a fluid going through a specific pipe, so it kinda caught me off-guard.
frosty owl
Just think of pipes as being a BIT wonky. They work, but may not look like it, sometimes the opposite 😂
fierce ruin
Organization? What's that?
cold snow
you got foundations, you are atleast slightly organized
earnest shoal
I see 4 constructors in a line..thats a good start 🤣
sand garnet
embrace the manifold
ornate ridge
the ramps look most satisfactory 
get yourself some double ramps from the shop soon xD
they are amazing 
haughty swan
pure ingots + solid steel = $$$$
i use the compacted recipe
bleak coral
using compacted coal for steel is like saving on copper costs for wiring by using gold instead
I could make an argument for every one of them except that recipe: vanilla recipe is simplest with no extra machines, petro coke is fastest if you want that, and solid steel is most resource efficient
the only use case is if you've literally run out of all oil and coal
glacial hemlock
You are referring to all alts of steel, got it
bleak coral
yeah
glacial hemlock
If sulfur get buffed in the future then compacted steel is potentially the best recipe.
bleak coral
like if there was just a bunch more of it?
glacial hemlock
Yes. Though it could be even better if it takes iron ingot instead of the ore.
bleak coral
yeah it's the combination of pure iron ingot + solid steel that really pushes it from a good balance of saving both coal & iron to an A++++ recipe
oblique hollow
As fun as this free headlift below z0 is, it ruins my test rigs down there 😔
fierce ruin
What's that free head lift?
cedar mica
As fun as this free headlift below z0 is, it ruins my test rigs down there 😔
So any thing built below z0, dont need pumps with current build?
oblique hollow
yep, ever since i messed with the valves
its not nice though. It messes up all my Head lift sensitive builds, like overflow valves and such
fierce ruin
So, what, you find a place where you can run a pipe down to z=0 and then you can just run it all the way up to z=2000 with no pumps?
oblique hollow
nope, i can run from z = (negative whatever) to z= 0 with no pumps
bleak coral
you can setup the exploit from an z level right?
oblique hollow
ive currently checked and this specific valve bug only happens below z = 0
bleak coral
huh weird
oblique hollow
It ruins them down there
they try to move invisible liquids
the pipe is freaking empty, there is no connection before the valve, yet it shows a flow rate of around 70 m³/min
Its ghost fluids, i tell you
cedar mica
Yet another thing in the line of "we didnt plan for this"
bleak coral
haunting your factory with ghost fluids, just asking for trouble if you ask me haha
oblique hollow
I haven't been trained to deal with spooky fluids
earnest shoal
those damn ghosts.. I heard they make good pottery
oblique hollow
And i dont even have a vacuum to deal with the liquid pipe ghosts
bleak coral
like they're not delivering enough coal?
oh thought they were a constant draw, don't really use them though
I just don't like how unreliable they are, I know they're fine if you're off in the distance but the chance that the pathing gets weird is too high for me
and I don't find laying a belt any harder than pathing out a truck
I'd use 'em for the aesthetic if the pathing was more reliable though
haha that's very bold of you
ivory leaf
i need some adviceso i do some math math and that what i get full potential of map is around (using all recepie mod so it will give you more power shards) : 21 450 Polymer resine 9900 petro coke 52860 limestone 70380 irone ore 25260 copper ore 11040 caterium ore 30900 coal 6840 sulfur 7800 bauxite 10500 crystals 1800 uranium and the question is what i should do firts ? i whant to use bauxite and sulfour most effective but i see a little problem with copper and catterium for wires i whant to do as much point as it possible ( i know turbomotors give most points but what else i should go just do mass heat sink ? )
bleak coral
also why did you separate oil into petro coke and polymer resin?
ivory leaf
i will base on nuclear energy 1800 uranium nag get around 18 nuclear fuel rod
and used not too much
cedar mica
225GW, might not be enough for map wide
ivory leaf
also why did you separate oil into petro coke and polymer resin?
best way to get a lot of rubber or plastic and a petro coke for steel
you get more of it that way than going for crude oil into plastic or rubber
bleak coral
best way to get a lot of rubber and plastic is diluted packaged fuel and recycled recipes
you need to get alts and use them for a map-wide, full resource factory
cedar mica
With alts, so do you get 31.5 Nuclear Fuel rods, from 1 uranium miner. Thats 393.75GW
bleak coral
18 fuel rods gets reduced from 1800 uranium to 342.86 uranium with alts
and best steel is solids steel ingots + pure iron ingots, cause you need the sulfur for nuclear
ivory leaf
recycled recipes you need fuel for it and still make a plastic and rubber i didnt calcualte it yet but polymer is more ez to transport
bleak coral
heavy oil residue > diluted packaged fuel > recycled is a closed loop, no byproducts
you use the resin from the first to feed the recycled loop
ivory leaf
ooo
i need to use your calculator xD i looks simple and nice
and thx for help i will need to spend some more time on this
bleak coral
that's greeny's, and yeah it's slick
ivory leaf
but one day i will farm all of them in one time
bleak coral
two quirks to note:
- maximize solves for most items per minute not most resource efficient, so take the max number and switch it back to items/minute with that number to get the most resource efficient solution
- multiple maximize items solves for max items, same ppm; you can move the slider around to change the ratio of the ppm but I find it easier to just maximize one item at a time
it also doesn't do power yet, but he's working on it
glacial hemlock
@ivory leaf 156 turbomotor ftw. And 94.5 nuclear rod is more than enough.
unreal echo
okay, i think i screwed up somewhere in mathing out my turbo fuel prooduction.
2x pure in the cave (600 each w/ shards).
1x impure 1x normal on the beach (60 and 300 w/ shards).
1x pure and 1x normal in the tide pool, 600 and 300 w/ shards.
so that's 600+600+300+300 = 1800 + 60-150 extra.
1 refinery w/ heavy oil residue + polymer resin.
30 crude oil/minute = 40 heavy oil res and 20 polymer resin /minute.
20 refineries eats 600 crude oil/minute; based on my oil reserves, i need 60 refineries.
15 refineries fills a single mk2 pipeline (600/40=15); so that's 4 groups of 15 refineries = 60 which makes 4 mk2 pipes worth of heavy oil residue
2400 heavy oil/minute.
1 water extractor makes 120/miniute, 5 water extractors fills 1 mk2 pipeline.
1 full mk2 pipeline feeds 10 packagers. Each packager also needs 60 canisters/minute; each packager puts out 60 units/minute, so ten packagers makes 600.
a refinery eats 30 oil and 60 packaged water/minute to make 60 diluted packaged fuel (just fuel really).
to eat the 2400 heavy oil/minute, i would need 80 more refineries... and 4800 packaged water/minute?! That can't be right. If it is, I would need 80 packagers too!
hot ginkgo
213 refineries making turbo fuel. No thanks. On the plus side, you'll be able to sustain 133GW.
Thats based off your 1800 dedicated oil supply. You can obviously change to whatever you need. Or however ambitious you're feeling.
unreal echo
i think the website is borked, since it's telling me 'maximized' and asking for 3200 coal/sulfur
ahh, ihad to go in adn cap the coal/sulfur myself
since the point of doing all that math above was to find the bottlenecks
hot ginkgo
What bottleneck are you looking for?
If you want to convert 1800 oil into turbofuel. Youll need that much coal/sulfur for it.
unreal echo
sulfer/coal for starters... checking the map.
hot ginkgo
The numbers that where set kn the calculator where the maxed numbers available on the map.
Besides oil which i limited for this.
Trust me. Greeny knows what he's doing with that calculator. Its all correct.
unreal echo
yeah i noticed that, am adjusting... 6x normal coals, 1x normal sulfur, 1x pure sulfur, so assuming i shard everything to the limit of my mk4 belts, that'd be something like 760 coal and something like 660 sulfur, so no need to go much higher...
it's also not showing me what i'd need for the packaged diluted fuel
hot ginkgo
Speaking of greeny.
wind spade
I wouldn't say I know what I'm doing, but yeah, the math should be correct
unreal echo
ahh okay it's an issue of PEBKAC
wind spade
Yeah the tool is correct, just need to tell it what you want
hot ginkgo
it's also not showing me what i'd need for the packaged diluted fuel
That part is in there too. Even shows the recycling of the empty containers.
unreal echo
well on my end i had to add in more stuff
wind spade
What did you had to add ?
hot ginkgo
I'm not sure why. I included everything.
unreal echo
it just keept looking wrong
but like i said, problem exists between keyboard and chair
wind spade
It was correct based on your initial query. So if you want something else than maxing turbofuel from 1800 oil, then you indeed have to nodify the query
unreal echo
yeahi had to play with it a bit, turning it around i targeted output turbo fuel of 400/m and got:
320 sulfur/coal
480 water
just 180 crude oil, which outputs 240 heavy oil and 120 polymer resin,
which cycles into 480 containers, out of 8 packagers, and a total of around 34 refineries total for that target of turbofuel. whew.
thank you all
hot ginkgo
That is more reasonable.
But only 13GW
The old standard off 300 oil got you 666 turbofuel and 22GW.
13GW wouldn't personally get me into nuclear. YMMV
unreal echo
to be fair i'm trying to get from 3000mw coal to fuel generators
fierce ruin
wow good luck
glacial hemlock
https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Hyper_Tube#Hyper_Tube_cannon
@oblique hollow I have added your discovery in the wiki page.
mortal viper
So I have 6 impure iron nodes I am currently having MK2 miners on that gives me 60 Iron per minute (360 total).
Is it worth using two Power Shards on each of the miners to bump production up 200% to 120 per minute (720 total)?
Have someone done the math on these kind of things? Or is it better to use the Power Shards on normal and rich nodes?
wind spade
so, talking just about power consumption (ignoring stuff like distance and cost), if you need more resources, it's best in this order:
- get a new node (pure > normal > impure)
- upgrade a miner (pure > normal > impure)
- overclock a miner (pure > normal > impure)
so if you have more nodes nearby/can upgrade miner, it's better to do that before overclocking. However if it's far away or you have plenty of power, nothing stops you from overclocking the existing miners. You shouldn't overclock anything else tho, as it's less power efficient
mortal viper
So the increase in power consumption vs resources gains when overclocking is a losing battle so to speak.
Thanks, I will keep this in mind
wind spade
yeah, overclocking anything has drawback
miners and production buildings use more power than if you'd just build more
generators have no drawback other than losing % (overclocking to 250% makes it produce 202% power while using 202% resources)
so for generators it's just saving space
mortal viper
I will keep this in mind 😄
patent bough
One thing i briefly experimented with recently was using the smart splitter overflow feature as part of a manifold - aka setting the middle splitter feed to "overflow" so that it doesnt feed the remaining machines until the ones it's connected to are full. I don't think this increases actual efficiency over time, but it does make the state of the assembly line more easily observable -- you can see without checking every machine how close to saturated your machines are, and if it fails to continue to light up more machines you know you've miscalculated something.
amusingly the very line of concrete constructors i tested this on alerted me to an insufficient supply, which turned out to be a single supply belt i'd accidentally left at a lower tier than required. which would've probably taken a lot longer to spot with a normal manifold.
glacial hemlock
That's great. Oh btw, you can also rely on online calculators
frosty owl
amusingly the very line of concrete constructors i tested this on alerted me to ...
Which is also a characteristic of any balanced system 😉
oblique hollow
https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Hyper_Tube#Hyper_Tube_cannon
<@!5973865336910...
edited the page myself now. Should be good
patent bough
ok who added replies to discord
oblique hollow
Some absolute madlad genius
patent bough
anyhow i mean i use online calculators or i calculate myself (for simple production lines as opposed to complex undertakings) and my math was all correct but i had missed a belt when upgrading. simple human error.
if there's one thing i've learned working as a programmer it's that accounting and correcting for human error is important.
incidentally this is part of the argument against unnecessarily complicated load balancers.
exotic ledge
so question: I did all the math and setup for a factory to make Rotors at 100% (4/min) as well as Stators 100% (5/min) but both if this not enough to set up a Motor assembler at 100% because it wants 10/min each.
What is more valuable:
- Underclock Motors so it expects 5/Min Stators, though this still seems like it would underperform because it's still not getting enough Rotors.
- Underclock Motors so it expects 4/Min Rotors, and underclock Stators so they deliver 4/min Stators, equalizing the Motor output.
- Underclock Motors so it expects 4/Min Rotors, and store excess Stators in a container.
- Same Underclocking as (3) above, except I think I should store some Rotors too, as they're used for some buildings. If I do split the Rotor line into some storage, should I repeat step (3) for Underclocking Motors so it equalizes?
😅 I can suspect some of this comes down to personal preference, but since I haven't built the whole thing yet, I'm curious to learn what the pros and cons of each option is.
frosty owl
@exotic ledge I'd suggest you to either build one more rotors assemblers (as those are needed even in buildings, unlike stators) or to go for 4 (for the same reason) ^^
frosty owl
incidentally this is part of the argument against unnecessarily complicated load...
Except there are also fairly simple and useful ones too xD
exotic ledge
😅 Yea I don't think I have the room or power available to duplicate the rotor setup.
frosty owl
Then number 4 it is!
exotic ledge
Thanks for your feedback!
frosty owl
You're always welcome :)
frosty owl
The pump isn't powered on purpose, @oblique hollow?
frosty owl
More then a hint, that's a required information xD
oblique hollow
heh
frosty owl
Mhh, can't tell... If the valve on the right is closed...
A "syphoning" system where you constantly take a certain amount away from a pipe?
oblique hollow
well, what happens to the output when the buffer is full?
and what happens when the buffer is empty?
ruby belfry
Okay. I'm curious. What is it?
oblique hollow
one moment, im timing something rn
frosty owl
Argh, my connection is making me so mad
Ohhh
So you can lower the flow of a pipe for a certain period of time...? 🤔
Shouldn't increase over its "original" value once the buffer is full, though
oblique hollow
if you take the left valve away and replace the middle section with a mk 2 pipe, the whole system is a bistable oscillator
if its all mk 1, its simply a comperator
frosty owl
"comperator" being...?
Please excuse my ignorance 😅
frosty owl
Output is on the right, correct?
oblique hollow
and the oscillator thing basically sets the output to 0 periodically.
Actually, the output is 0 for about 78 seconds (with input being 300 m³/min)
yes, on the right
frosty owl
Is there something I don't know about the effects of a closed valve?
I don't see that working 🤔
oblique hollow
closed valves still transmit head lift
frosty owl
Quite, unlike the unpowered pump
oblique hollow
so if the buffer is full, the vertical pipe receives 8 m of head lift
however, for some reason, mk 2 pipes ignore this?
so the buffer can fully empty until the flow stops if it has mk 2 pipes
if its all mk 1, the output stops as soon as the buffer is just 1 m³ below its limit
which is weird
frosty owl
But if the buffer isn't full, fluid can't go to output, then?
Damn, I really need to get on some testing to keep up, I'm lagging behind 😂
oblique hollow
in both cases, fluid only starts flowing over the output once the buffer is full
frosty owl
But then the buffer has no way of emptying, does it?
frosty owl
I'm very intrigued by the idea...
If we can compare systems to electronics we'd have a whole new attack angle on pipe issues 🤣
oblique hollow
this is the Comparator that Oscillates
aka "Comparator with Hysteresis"..... i guess
frosty owl
Why does it oscillate?
Also, please turn the valves facing upward for the screenshot xD
The valve on the right is closed?
oblique hollow
and this is the normal one
It oscillates with mk 2 pipes because for some reason, the buffer empties itself through the input pipe
frosty owl
Right, forgot 🤦♂️
So how do you "read" the normal one
Is 660*2/min too much for a single solid freight platform?
I'm worried about whether or not I would have enough wiggle room in the timing of the trains. Should it reach 10/15 seconds of wiggle room like that...?
oblique hollow
1320 items per minute inside a single freight platform?
well, why dont you time how long your train takes to get to that station
glacial hemlock
@exotic ledge build more of them so you can produce 90 motor/min
cedar mica
The limit is 1560/m into 1 freight platform, but thats only useful when dealing with Wire and Quickwire, as they stack in 500 and fill every 10 min. With 100 stack items, you fill in 2 min and 1 min for those that stack in 50
exotic ledge
<@223174829736591360> build more of them so you can produce 90 motor/min
Don't have enough room or power 😛
frosty owl
well, why dont you time how long your train takes to get to that station
I hoped I wouldn't have to :/
First I'll try to see if it works without issues, then get into that... Hopefully not 😂
cedar mica
Just watch the train station a few times and check how much is left behind/arrive
fresh elm
Actually the limit is less than that
During load / unload train stations take no input.
And give no output
The second I/O ports are mostly useful for making sure you can keep a single line consistent
So that the station itself can load/unload faster than the belt speed
I personally wouldn't ever try to push more than 780/min over a single train car, in fact depending on the run length I might still split that into multiple cars
worthy copper
prooooobably still casted screw, but if stitched pops up again i'd take it over bolted still
dusty crow
so casted?
worthy copper
its close enough you could go by personal preference but i think casted is goign to save you more machine space until lategame
dusty crow
aight
worthy copper
esp if you dont plan spamming hard drives around the refinery time to hit heavy encased frame early
sand garnet
super early game I'd take casted screw
if you've already unlocked manufacturers, I'd take stitched iron plate
wispy cradle
Stitched improves production, casted makes building easier, you don't need improve production so early.
magic sparrow
Casted is so much nicer
full sorrel
I don't have casted screw or steel screw or any alternates to avoid screws. I am in pain. I guess its time to go out on a hunt for a load of drives?
cosmic compass
i got casted screws on my first hard drive
near sorrel
oh casted screws so you can just skip the steel rod bit... nice
peak basalt
its easier to get if you go hard drive hunt and unlock them early game. fewer options for it to give you.
misty pendant
greeny's site loves coated iron canister, is it really that good of a recipe
dusky dust
Seems nice to me, anyway. Iron's super plentiful, copper's not too bad. Presumably the math works out well enough that it's favored over the steel variant.
And both of those remove the need for oil, so it's a bonus either way
(Though to be fair, it's not often that you're going to have any significant container production in a line in your factory, so it sort of doesn't matter too much what you're using)
misty pendant
the issue is the stuff you're going to be packaging is likely to be in oil production, so that means you'd have to bring copper sheets and iron plates in to your oil place
so it makes logistics more annoying
couple that with the fact that greeny's also optimizes for coated iron plates which requires plastic means you have a double logistics complications
misty pendant
fused quickwire
dusty crow
already got a good quickwire set up
fresh elm
fused quickwire ftw out of that set
worthy copper
Yeah fused quackwire for sure. Granted it’s not going to be really needed until lategame.
fierce ruin
so, I've never set up nuclear power before, and am getting ready to start, with the aid of all the alternate recipes. Doing the math on a 480/min uranium ore line, I'm getting that I'll need 9.6(10) refineries processing uranium pellets (480/min pellets), then 24 manufacturers processing pellets into infused uranium cells (420 cells/min), then 42 manufacturers processing cells into nuclear fuel units (25.2 units per minute).
does that look right? seriously 42 nuclear fuel unit manufacturers?
fresh elm
but they also don't burn very quickly
you know it's goign to be a long week when you are building a new train line past an old train station, only to notice the building is completely unfinished and you just abandoned it once it worked...
oblique hollow
@frosty owl while you're still behind on testing the current new pipe circuits.....
Any ideas on a possible pipe system mechanic you wish there was? Like, not just priority input or something. I'm currently gathering ideas on new circuit designs
frosty owl
Well, some sort of on/off system to cycle extractors between on/off would be cool
Example: I have 3 buffers before the input for machines using fluid. I want the fluid producers to start running (at 100%) once the fluid buffers are empty or only full up to a certain point and keep going until they fill up the buffers again then stop.
frosty owl
Otherwise, something that would start sending fluid in certain pipes only if enough flow is aviable.
Example: each pipe should start pumping when receiving 50. Main pipe gets 150: 3 pipes get filled. Main pipe brings 100: 2 pipes gets filled. Main pipe brings 120: still 2 pipes, but a buffer fills up. Buffer full: all pipes get 50 until buffer is empty
frosty owl
sounds like the comparator from yesterday
I still didn't make sense of it, so I can't say much on that 😅😂
oblique hollow
Otherwise, something that would start sending fluid in certain pipes only if eno...
so that one would be.... a flow divider
im just nicknaming it that rn
frosty owl
Works
oblique hollow
Actually..... I can do that
I can do that right now
Using one of my less useful circuits: The Variable Overflow Junction!
give me 2 minutes and ill give you a theoretical design
frosty owl
Eh, I'll probably be in game, smashing my head against my own pipes...
So I can't say I'll answer quickly for certain 😅
Ping?
oblique hollow
pong
@frosty owl heres my theory. Not verified ingame
this, but imagine it with valves on each end
oblique hollow
yeah, i think this should work
oblique hollow
Otherwise, something that would start sending fluid in certain pipes only if eno...
This one would fill each consecutive pipe only if the previous one is full, but here, 120 would result in
1st Line: 50
2nd Line: 50
3rd Line: 20
Now that i think about is..... this is waaaay more useful than simply a variable overflow
though i cant imagine i would ever have a system where this kind of flow fluctuation occurs......
@frosty owl do you actually have a case where you would need the Flow Divider? (Sorry for the double ping, oops)
sacred forum
is there anywhere i can find plans for minifactories built vertically for space opmization?
queen rivet
Maybe not so much set plans, but there's a thing on YouTube with 5x5 foundation challenge builds that can give you ideas for small vertical builds "Satisfactory 5x5" in a YT search should get a good variety.
left seal
@sacred forum https://www.reddit.com/user/oldshavingfoam/submitted/
He does a lot of optimized vertical builds and does good blueprints for them
https://i.redd.it/fl301phsqjp51.jpg for example
buoyant arch
glacial hemlock
@buoyant arch 1 pipe to 1 coal generator.
You mean power trip? Yeah, biomass burners are meant to trip often.
wind spade
He does a lot of optimized vertical builds and does good blueprints for them
I wouldn't call them optimized. He often uses bad recipes and a few times he used belt clipping as well. One can't deny the quality of his work, but if I was to build something, I'd take them merely as an inspiration
oblique hollow
Greeny never complains about inaccuracies in my diagrams or math so i guess im in the clear 👀
wind spade
maybe that's because I never saw your diagrams
twin jacinth
Hey. If there is a miner for example which mines 480/min ore, is it possible to make it produce exactly for example 479/min? Because if I try to change the clock speed, then I cant set exactly 479.Neither with the slider, nor with entering percentages. I can also type in the preferred parts per minute value, and the game allows 479 but after closing and reopening the panel it rather sets the closest percentage value that is not a fraction.
bleak coral
clockspeeds can only be integers so there is a limit to how precise you can make the parts per minute
wind spade
no, you can only clock buildings for integer percetnages
also, I don't know what's your reasoning behind 479, there's really no drawback of overproduction
twin jacinth
479 was just an example
wind spade
even then, you can always just use the nearest larger percentage and it'll work
bleak coral
personally I'd want something like that to reduce power spikiness by reducing machine downtime, but nearest number that is >= my desired parts per minute allowable by integer clockspeeds is good enough for that
wind spade
yeah, that's a spike every 30 or so minutes
well, based on the recipe and stuff, but usually it's pretty long until you get the spike
bleak coral
which is fine, as long as it's fairly close to actual average power usage so you you're not wasting capacity on handling spikes and you can estimate how close you are to needing more power that's all you need
fierce ruin
If you've unlocked smart splitters you can send the overflow to a sink. That should keep the miner from filling up and shutting down.
frosty owl
though i cant imagine i would ever have a system where this kind of flow fluctua...
No problem
The flow divider seem to work finely
Right now I don't have any place I'd use it in, but I WOULD have used one in my turbofuel/rubber-factory setup, where I would have pushed the fuel overflow towards plastic production first and rubber second
oblique hollow
glad to see that it works.
Now i can design pipe circuits without even testing them..
arctic basin
Hey fellas! I hope this is the right place to ask. I started playing the game 20 hours ago and i'm still in it! Is there any tutorial on coal plantations? I'm having weird issue where if the threshold of the usage exceeds half of the capacity it starts to drop and then the coals crash
dusky dust
The usual problem there is water supply
So long as it's piped properly, the "best" ratio tends to be 3 water extractors going into 8 generators
arctic basin
Oh that explains it. I've got 3 overclocked extractors into 24 gens
dusky dust
At 100% usage, each coal gen will consume 45/min of water, and 15/min of coal. They only use as much as they need, which is why they work for awhile and then stop
arctic basin
so I should delete the plant and start over then
dusky dust
The 3:8 ratio is based on not overclocking the water extractors; if you do fully OC them you could get by with 4 extactors for those 24 gens
Nah, it's presumably fixable.
3 water extractors (generating 900/min of water in total) should be able to supply 24 coal gens; you'd just need to make sure that the piping is done properly
Keep in mind that an individual pipe can't flow more than 300/min
(later on, there's mk2 pipes which can do 600, but I assume you're not there yet)
cedar mica
Pipes are not 100% accurate when doing manafold method. Something to do with how they want to keep the pipes full. So I would add a small buffer, like a few m3 extra, to make sure you can run above 90% usage without issue
abstract copper
If you've unlocked smart splitters you can send the overflow to a sink. That sho...
Won't the sink cause power spikes then?
dusky dust
That piping method looks otherwise mostly okay, though as I say, three extractors can produce a total of 900/min max, so you've definitely got four more coal gens than you can support
So you'd want to either add another extractor or unhook four of 'em
arctic basin
That's a good idea, Odd. Will try the buffers when I can the plant is so far away from the base I figured it's better to drag cable across the map than coal and water
yeah apocalyptech I only built so much because it was really far away and I didn't want to travel there anytime soon but oh well
as of now the coals are divided each water pump is feeding 8 coals everything is overclocked including the coal miners, not mk2 yet
dusky dust
Yeah, each water pump (300/min) can only supply 6⅔ gens
cedar mica
I tend to run 300m3 for every 6. Gives 30m3 buffer, to avoid any issues when getting close to 100% usage
arctic basin
I guess I should just rebuild it with math in mind this time. They are too close together for iterations anyway i wanted it to be tidy, didn't we all in the beginning 😄
cedar mica
You dont need to do math, it just makes it easier to keep things efficent
arctic basin
Alright thank you guys. Will go work on it hope nothing kills me on the way there 😄
wispy cradle
@arctic basin try keep things simple. 3->8. Just notice that the pipe limit is 300 and 3 water extractor produce 360
no buffer, no valve,
cedar mica
You can make it more compact then that, if you use height. Costs you an extra pump per pipe, but allows you to put the extactors under the refinery's. Cuts down the space between rows to 1-2 foundations, instead of the shown 6-7
wispy cradle
The tutorial has both designs. https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Tutorial:How_to_play#Coal_Power_3
arctic basin
Now on another hand, I just got tier 5 and 6 and i'm seeing this Fuel generator. Should I go and fix the coals or pursue the fuel gen?
cedar mica
Fix coal, as you need power to get fuel gens running
wispy cradle
if you want o delete it, use map editor to do it.
arctic basin
you could do that? 😮
I've deleted so much stuff that i spent hours building and turned out to be a disaster 😄
wispy cradle
When rebuilding, I prefer delete
naive ingot
Ideally, shouldn't train stations have a short uphill climb before the station so that gravity will assist the braking coming into the station, and if so, has anyone done a look into how much incline you can have before it's wasted?
oblique hollow
you dont need braking assistance with autotrains. they will stop at any speed as soon as they are at the station
fresh elm
Yeah, even rolling downhill they will stop super fast
hot ginkgo
Infact autopilot can actuslly be faster if you have a hill before the station because they just instant stop.
naive ingot
... this sounds... Unintuitive.
signal sky
basically, you always want trains going as fast as they can all the time, cause they can stop instantly
fierce ruin
guys i made my turbo heavy fuel setup and i produce 120 cubic meters of turbo fuel so how many fuel gens it can feed
sorry for interrupting btw
signal sky
120/4.5 at peak
fierce ruin
so it cost about 25 cubic meters per minute for each fuel gen ?
wooden cliff
does anyone have a good spreadsheet they can link me/ or some diagrams for factories?
hot ginkgo
What exactly are you trying to make?@wooden cliff
wooden cliff
just trying to get a better sense of math + layout
hot ginkgo
The pins in this channel include some very good calculators that will lay everything out for you math wise.
wooden cliff
ooh ill check the pins! Thanks
oblique hollow
Draw io is godlike
wooden cliff
drawio is legit, easy to read but harder to use than pen/paper
oblique hollow
i love it
dire dagger
sacred forum
do you guys make mini factories for every single items?
hot ginkgo
I make smaller factories for a group of items with common base resources.
Like iron.
Or steel and concrete.
Oil, copper, quickwire.
wind spade
I always wondered how would people imagine a tool for planning layouts
I mean it's a 3D game, so such a tool would have to be 3D as well
sand garnet
layered 2d building
sacred forum
will you make your factories where all the ressources needed are or you'll make it at a random point and bring everything there
hot ginkgo
I ususly try to build it nearby the common stuff.
Well, the stuff needed for that factory.
sacred forum
do you have a massive storage location or you go all around when you need something?
hot ginkgo
Hell yeah. I love central storage.
A few trains pick up all the finished goods onto mixed cars, then smart splitters sort it out at the warehouse.
If the bin is full, it gets sunk.
wind spade
mixed cars 🤢
hot ginkgo
Hey, its great for shipping 8 different items in low volumes.
wind spade
whatever floats your boat I guess, but I personally rather assign each item a different car
hot ginkgo
Id have 50 different cars going to storage.
wind spade
it's like with bathrooms, you can have mixed, but everybody feels better if they are separated
hot ginkgo
And the belt work for that. No thank you.
sacred forum
wait carsÉ like the truckÉ
hot ginkgo
Trains.
abstract copper
Only cause of the cracks in the stall doors
sacred forum
at what point would you start building the storage area?
hot ginkgo
ASAP.
wind spade
at the start of the game
abstract copper
When you get tired of running everywhere
hot ginkgo
Find caterium and unlock smart splitters in the MAM. Makes storage much easier. And you csn do it in tier 2.
sacred forum
i guess the storage area should be in the middle of the map
hot ginkgo
Meh. I just picked somewhere random for mine.
But I keep my stuff spread out to calm down the turbines in my laptop.
I'm currently rebuilding it on a cliff face in the southeast corner of the dunes.
So I can look up at the water fall.
spring ether
ok people. i dont know if this belongs here, but have yall got any numbers on the refined power mods boilers and turbines and stuff? (like input and output, item consumption, etc.)
bleak coral
this is vanilla only math, we don't talk about mod math here
try the modding server, link is in #welcome if you haven't joined
muted crypt
No lay out tools currently exists. Best we have is draw.io.
my expertise
sand garnet
brings out MSPaint
muted crypt
I used to use paint
then I realized draw.io would just be so much better
then again I also occasionally make rudimentary scripts for things I need that the online calculators don't have
sand garnet
heresy
muted crypt
you're just jealous I have a relatively simple power calculator
sand garnet
implying i have a power calculator at all 😄
my calculator is "grid not crashed? doing great!"
hot ginkgo
Tom definitely strikes me as the "this is fine" dog in fire.
sand garnet
100% accurate lol
frosty owl
my calculator is "grid not crashed? doing great!"
Grid is broken: how much do I need to make not "broken" again fix for it to barely start again? 🤔
fresh elm
lol
fresh elm
my entire world is on a single foundation grid
it doesn't have these right angles for nothing
frosty owl
As I was saying, @fresh elm
From the (little) I saw so far I thought you had pretty flatty surfaces overall
Even outposts?
fresh elm
map of my world from earlier today before I started doing performance testing stuff
this is entirely, 100% connected together. miners are not on foundations, nor are the beltage from miners into infrastructure
frosty owl
Dear lord, the sheer size of that powerplant...
fresh elm
you may recognize the front of my grasslands base from the fluid update video
but I sort of have these "natural" rivers of belts outside
frosty owl
Just your average spaghett in the woods xD
fresh elm
no, they're all purposefully hand aligned like that
I wanted it to look more like rivers and tributaries of minerals flowing in
if you look at the map it is more obvious
frosty owl
Oh no, they are very tasteful spaghett. Clean and proper spaghett
frosty owl
I wanted it to look more like rivers and tributaries of minerals flowing in
Although I get what you mean (the idea is very cool!) it's hard to tell from a still image xD
fresh elm
frosty owl
Yeah, from the map it shows properly
Should be gorgeous going over it in jet or hypertube
fresh elm
I've got a lot of vista locations I built into basically everywhere.
much of my world was built to look good as a background or a screenshot. TBH I smoke a joint and pick places in my factory sometimes to just watch
the benefits of being retired 😄
frosty owl
Did total-xclipse do a tour of your base too? 🤔
fresh elm
I don't know, I've actually never talked to him before
frosty owl
I asked because when I thought about it it occured to me: how would he even run it?
fresh elm
I've put my save on kibz server but I don't see him talk there ever so he's prob not there. and I put a more recent one in experimental channel the other day
though I've fixed a few things since then
frosty owl
What do you think the minimum requirements are to run the save as you've made it now?
fresh elm
ummm, prob 32g of ram?
you might want a decentish video card but that's not where my game is gonna die
the engine just sort of struggles right now in my world
I have been thinking about purging prob 40-50k foundations from my world might help
and I have some ideas on what I can do for that where I wouldn't really notice.
frosty owl
Yeah, that item count increase is really forcing the engine to the brim xD
fresh elm
everything is fine except the garbage collector when you're moving around sometimes will just shoot your game in the head for 5-10 seconds
that's the worst
frosty owl
I have been thinking about purging prob 40-50k foundations from my world might h...
What about some belts or pipes fixes to reduce items flowing?
fresh elm
most of the items moving around poof magically into nothing when you get far away
so I'm not worried about that really
frosty owl
So it's all about the stuff on screen?
fresh elm
no, a lot of what I think causes the most problem is the sheer quantity of objects UE is tracking
frosty owl
I thought the issue lied with the sheer number of items in the game overall too
fresh elm
there's no way for the game to load different regions of my stuff at diff times
frosty owl
Rightly so
fresh elm
so that combines with the diff objects in regions of the world
which do load / unload
I mean, I can legit see everything about all my bases from across the map in high detail
frosty owl
So couldn't you reduce both by "fixing" some conveyors?
Eg: making a conveyor 20% shorter is 20% less items to track/show in the world
fresh elm
if I am not close to that conveyor rendering stuff it doesn't render any objects afaik
frosty owl
I mean, I can legit see everything about all my bases from across the map in hig...
And that's so cool 😍
fresh elm
and some objects def don't render from far away
yeah the problem is that amount of detail from across the map is hosing everything
frosty owl
But the game still tracks them, right?
fresh elm
not indivdually I would hope
frosty owl
Still, if it had to track a 20% shorter conveyor, that would be quite load off, wouldn't it?
fresh elm
I doubt it.
frosty owl
Especially on full belts. 600/min and over
fresh elm
but... it's not rendering any of that.
or hopefully doing anything but high level calculations every so often on it
making a segment shorter should have exactly 0 effect on that
having less segments would make some slight improvements, but you'd have to make some rather drastic reductions in segments
but from far away a 20 meter belt and a 2 meter belt should perform the same I would think
regardless of the speed
(in terms of game performance)
frosty owl
Mhh, yeah, that makes sense
To hell with all my ideas about making belts shorter for efficiency
fresh elm
and frankly I just assume experienced game designers are way better at that sort of thing than I am 😄
frosty owl
Well, it still takes less for stuff to travel around, at least....
I finally finished my storage
But while satisfied, I can't help wanting it to be full already ahahah
It seems lonely with all the empty belts #screenshots message
fresh elm
I look forward to evicting ore from mine.
I only have 18 slots left in my storage room
(and haven't made packaged liquid biofuel even yet)
frosty owl
Ahahahah
I have a separate portion for ore and ingots ;)
Have 60ish for all building materials/equipment, sorted by importance (more important closest to the entrance). Sinks show the overflow constantly at the end of each row
Well... would show...
fresh elm
I don't take ingots in here, but I do have ore. mostly because early on there were some research things that needed ore so why not
I also don't make space elevator parts, which I will at some point
frosty owl
I only have 18 slots left in my storage room
Isn't that wayyy too little...?!
I can never work with less then 30ish
fresh elm
I have 18 left
frosty owl
...oh
frosty owl
What are the tubes for?
cold snow
i couldnt be bothered to get all the things together in one place 😄
frosty owl
Very industrial looking 👌
cold snow
manually filled containers or automatically refilled?
fresh elm
which, frankly, I'm sad I don't need to make batteries
manually? who do you think I am lol
even for my manual crafting I have manufacturing facilities to do that
cold snow
so you got a real maze behind all those containers
fresh elm
behind all those bins:
just scroll up and look at my world for a sec
til you see the map
oh wait, wrong channel lol
or no my full world map is up there
frosty owl
cold snow
looks like you really like water and "natural" lines 😄
fresh elm
keep going.
I built a little
I still have to rebuild my superocomputer facility, which I'm doing now. then back to rebuild my permanent bauxite processing facility again
frosty owl
Do you always use alts?
fresh elm
they're usually better
sometimes no.
anything to increase iron consumption and reduce literally anything else
cold snow
what does your world produce turbomotor/supercomputer/other interesting stuff wise?
fresh elm
except water, I guess. cuz I'm doing pure recipes for no good reason for iron
it produces 1.2 TW of power.
also 35 SC, 40 computers, 50 turbomotors, 780 aluminum sheets, and a partridge in a pear tree
oh and 96 HMF
which, incidentally, is my favorite project of the bunch
and those aren't bus speeds, that's shredder speeds
but then again that's why there's like 1400 tickets sitting in this bin because I have nothing to spend them on
frosty owl
Can you ever run out of statues...?
fresh elm
If they're detailed I'm slightly afraid to place them without knowing the LoD will work
cold snow
damn thats a lot. did you run out of a ressource already? (except uranium)
frosty owl
Fair :\
fresh elm
um, I ran out of uranium.
that's why I told you the 1.2 tw power plant, and led with that.
frosty owl
Pffft, not even CLOSE on iron
fresh elm
because that is the biggest and hardest thing I have ever done in thsi game
cold snow
thats why I already excluded it 😛
frosty owl
Quite xD
fresh elm
I'm not out of anything, but close on sulfur and caterium
fierce ruin
so uh, Klepdar, how much of that 1.2 tw are you using, and what % of your map is occupied by nuclear waste?
frosty owl
Makes sense
cold snow
at first i thought i might want to do it too, but then i cancelled the plan because it is way too much work for me
fresh elm
nuclear waste isn't so bad, it's that platform on the top edge of hte map. it won't ever reach the shore.
let's go take a visit (I have done so little productive besides bring doggo 82 home today)
frosty owl
so uh, Klepdar, how much of that 1.2 tw are you using, and what % of your map is...
#math-and-meta message
Chek it out
fierce ruin
Rad suit gives radiation immunity regardless of radioactivity quantity, correct?
fresh elm
yup.
Also, a lot of that radiation will go away as soon as there's not massive freaking uranium stockpiling everywhere now that the plant is actually turned on
you can see the trains on the map and the train stations where the uranium is
frosty owl
Rad suit gives radiation immunity regardless of radioactivity quantity, correct?
But you do consume filters faster
fresh elm
up to a point
I can have 1 ISC of stuff or 10,000, consumes same rate
BTW - in practice - I find the waste produced 100% manageable:
it could be 4 mostly full belts but they don't really produce THAT much waste
(Obv I belted enough to handle all of it)
some day I need to do something out here to make alcatraz more presentable
I had big plans but by the time I was here actually building it I just wanted to be freaking done
frosty owl
Alkatraz should stay bare
fresh elm
I have no idea how many ISC this is tbh
after 3 months of building my brain was 200% fried by this point
frosty owl
Massive and intimidating. No need for decor ahahah
No wonder...
Did you use to draw things out too?
fresh elm
well, it has one serious problem. when I come out to inspect the waste I tend to accidentally fall
I had no idea this project would take 3 months.
I figured 3 weeks
fierce ruin
I had no idea this project would take 3 months.
at how many hours per day? 😮
fresh elm
um, I'd say 10?
maybe 6 days a week?
I've not played that much since I finished it. it has only made 22 ISC of waste so far
and see how you can't really see any waste on any of the belts way off in the distance and then not even the belts?
it would surprise me if it did any calc for back there
that's gotta be basically free
they definitely turn into poopy yellow hats back there
and then into nothing
frosty owl
Surely having more storages bring more checks/frame for items on belts and in storages, though, right?
frosty owl
As long as it hasn't reached the end, the waste is passing through all the storages
fresh elm
sure, but what is it really doing?
frosty owl
All the time, those storages are updating their inventories for that, I believe 🤔
fresh elm
it's moving through more segments, which sure adds some calculation
but statistically that is fairly small I'd think
frosty owl
Quite, especially with this little items
fresh elm
especially since I'd think that it's not traversing the entire object tree to find them
it's that btree that hurts
and I just love glass buildings in this game:
frosty owl
Even in the best scenario it still has to update each belt segmet's inventory and the same for each storage
Ideally, a 20m conveyor is less expensive (in performace) then 20 1m ones, right?
fresh elm
Yes.
frosty owl
and I just love glass buildings in this game:
That is nice! :D
I like how these pipes turned out
Sometimes not completely straight is ok too xD
abstract copper
Is uranium/waste radioactive while it's on the belt itself? Or only once it reaches the container?
dusky dust
Yes, it's always radioactive
A single item's radioactivity hardly goes far at all, though -- you can be practically right next to it and not really feel anything
It only starts spreding out more in places that it accumulates
abstract copper
Ah, so an infinite belt loop won't get around it XD
dusky dust
Well, okay, I suppose a single uranium might require a bit more distance; that red zone's definitely in the "practically right next to it zone" -- that's my aerial uranium delivery belt going over some foundations there
But even then, you're looking at just a foundation's worth or so
heh. I do still want to see someone create a nuclear waste "containment" system which is just an effectively-neverending loop of conveyors spiralling up right up against the damage/death barriers
I just want that person to not be me. :)
abstract copper
lol it'd be a nice extra way to ensure you don't accidentally cross it
dusky dust
For reference, some individual waste barrels on their way to storage: (waste is less radioactive on a per-item basis than the raw uranium, I think -- it just ends up being slightly more of a problem since it piles up in your storage areas)
exotic ledge
I have two Assemblers producing the same item
Is there a difference between:
• Running one of them at 80% and the other at 100%
• Or running them both at 90%?
(no other option exists, don't suggest it, I'm just asking the pros and cons between these two options)
bleak coral
They'd produce and consume the same amount, and the second option would actually be more power efficient
obsidian sluice
I've got this dumb idea to build waste storage in the void? where you have a stack of ISCs going from the bottom death barrier to the top death barrier, and conveyor lifts connecting them vertically
the wiki tells me this'll let me stack 280 ISCs, which gives me 13,440 stacks of nuclear waste goodness per column
silent mortar
Its not dumb. Its a good place for it. 😛 Some people keep going east until the water stops behaving like water, and place it on the sea bed.
obsidian sluice
well, it's dumb because I plan to do it without area actions
I have area actions and utility mods, but I never quite figured out how to use them efficiently
it's way more fun to press shift-W and left click furiously
I haven't actually been playing much or hopping online as much because I'm in the middle of finals right now 😛
so all I've been doing is Satisfactory-related math instead of Satisfactory
bleak coral
columns without flying or area actions sounds like a pain
if you do rows at least you can stand still and click click click
obsidian sluice
I'll post the math if anybody's interested, but I think signal beacon might consume less power per beacon than the base beacon recipe, partially because it uses a lot less iron and copper
(assuming we use pure alts and insulated crystal oscillators to get more mileage out of our quartz)
the best you can do for base beacons is fused wire, steel coated plate, and insulated cable, for a total of 1060 MJ/beacon, but signal beacon takes 679 MJ/beacon
fierce ruin
does anyone ever do mass 50% speed factories? since 50% means 33% power usage or 1.5 items produced for the same power
bleak coral
the main issue with signal beacon is its added complexity compared to the vanilla recipe
and there's two places that's it's automated, for nuclear and for bullets
you don't need to automate that many for bullets, and if you're making nuclear you're gonna have plenty of power
obsidian sluice
the main issue with signal beacon is its added complexity compared to the vanill...
yeah, I'm automating it partially because I'm planning to go nuclear
obsidian sluice
A power analysis of beacons vs. signal beacons:
bleak coral
that fused wire with the original is a clever trick
obsidian sluice
I use fused wire and fused quickwire whenever I can! it's a pretty good way to save power and get more out of your copper and caterium ingots
frosty owl
does anyone ever do mass 50% speed factories? since 50% means 33% power usage or...
I prefer to overclock to save on space and item counts
frosty owl
I'll post the math if anybody's interested, but I think signal beacon might cons...
Why would you want to use more crystals to save on iron/coal though? 🤔
fresh elm
Iron and coal are very abundant and quartz is not
Coal is the third most abundant resource on the map, iron is the first
silent dock
c2 + the second beta^ to the third of b2 = 15051738
obsidian sluice
Why would you want to use more crystals to save on iron/coal though? 🤔
oh my bad, you use less copper, not coal!
I'm currently using most of my copper for copper sheets and quickwire, so it makes more sense for me to use quartz as a substitute
and like Lund mentioned, signal beacons make sense for nuclear, because crystal oscillators are also used to construct nuclear fuel units
carmine aspen
what is it best to utilize oil islands for?
generally just all oil products or?
fuel
old ember
I used the nodes in the middle of the map, in the mountain lakes, for fuel. Coal and sulphur both nearby for turbo fuel.
dusky dust
Most folks recommend processing oil on-site
So really just whatever oil products you feel like producing, stick those near the oil deposits
(I still don't regret piping 'em all back to a main base, personally, but the general recommendation is to process onsite)
old ember
But my current build is along the coast by those islands, the plan for me is to turn them into plastic and rubber.
old ember
At the moment I;m just using one of them, plus a coal and a sulphur. Gives me more than enough power for my next stage of factory.
carmine aspen
how much powah?
old ember
25GW, plus another 13 from previous power facilities.
carmine aspen
12 gw from just turbofuell??
old ember
25GW just from Turbofuel 😁
old ember
old ember
(for those doing the maths, no that's not a very efficient use of the oil, but I have more oil than I need at the moment, and the limit was the sulphur and coal, so it's built for 600/m of those, and 350m3/m crude from a slightly overclocked pure node)
old ember
A normal will give you 300m3/m max, and a pure will give you 600. I'm only using 350 of the pure, which means I could in theory get more out of it. I just don't have anything useful to do with it at the moment.
old ember
Precisely.
And I like Oil Digger. Gonna steal that.
oblique hollow
its wacky, its wonky, it abuses pipe head lift.....
Its an AND gate
fresh elm
I abused head lift for overflow a bunch
how does your and gate work?
How would I use this to trigger an unrelated machine to turn on?
oblique hollow
You need to imagine the pipe at the back being 2 seperate ones
fresh elm
and I'm guessing the pump is there to keep it from backflowing
oblique hollow
the pumps kill the head lift
maybe i should turn this into a draw io diagram
for clarity
fresh elm
I see what you're doing, but it doesn't allow you to actually do what an and gate is useful for
that's why I'm asking
oblique hollow
it does do and
fresh elm
I can't trigger anythign that is unrelated to the oil.
oblique hollow
...yes
sand garnet
why the unpowered pump? isnt a valve identical in how it affects flow
fresh elm
there's no transistor
oblique hollow
unfortunately
oblique hollow
why the unpowered pump? isnt a valve identical in how it affects flow
pumps kill head lift, valves dont.
Valves can allow 0 m³/min but still transmit head lift