math-and-meta

[upbeat tide]

I disagree with that

[wind spade]

you could do everything with the same efficiency as now with valves

[upbeat tide]

for me valves are only useful for backflow management. Making sure fluids go the right way

[wind spade]

which could already be done by pumps

[upbeat tide]

exactly, valves are now just non-power using pumps for that use

[wind spade]

I believe you could do non-powered pump that would still prevent backflow

[oblique hollow]

yep

the bonus of valves is that they dont block head lift

and you can limit them, i guess....

[wind spade]

not sure why would you need the limitation, but sure...

[bleak coral]

They're also smaller and less aesthetically disruptive than pumps

[wind spade]

I guess, but from functionality point of view, it's pretty much the same

[oblique hollow]

@wind spade this is where i ended up when i looked into the limitation mechanic

[wind spade]

(just not blocking the headlift)

[oblique hollow]

they are literally like electronic resistors

or rather the inverse: limit-able conductors

since 100% is full flow and 0% is full limitation

do not ask me how i got that formula

[upbeat tide]

we all know that answer anyway... your secretly a CSS employee 😄

[oblique hollow]

wheres my Undercover CoffeeStainer role

gimme

[upbeat tide]

lol

[frosty owl]

wheres my Undercover CoffeeStainer role
@oblique hollow I though you'd ask for the paycheck first 🤣

[oblique hollow]

pfff, coffee stain employees don't get paid

[frosty owl]

you could do everything with the same efficiency as now with valves
@wind spade Under the assumption of allowing all pipes/machines to fill up before starting using liquid, I can agree. Not otherwise as all one can do is split flows in half or thirds

[oblique hollow]

thats not really true. they split in half or thirds at first. but once the pipe is full, its a different story

its all the same with belts

you can split them in half or thirds too to make balancers

or simply manifold

and dont fortget that over- and underclocking machines still exists

[frosty owl]

thats not really true. they split in half or thirds at first. but once the pipe is full, its a different story
@oblique hollow yes, that's the point I was trying to make this whole time: "once the pipe is full"
I'm not clear whether the machine's storage (the one using the fluid) influences it or not, but what I meant to say is that until all pipes of the system are full you don't have control over flow without valves

[bleak coral]

So what? The system will fill up then it won't matter

[frosty owl]

So what? The system will fill up then it won't matter
@bleak coral It affects any scenario in which you consume as much as you produce and is especially important if you are at pipe's capacity (making "filling up" quite hard once machines start taking in fluid). Although that realistically is a temporary and easily avoidable issue, I fear there are some implications that can lead to issues such as the one I explained earlier today. I'll look more into that the next time I log in, but hopefully I'm just concerned over nothing
Now to not be misunderstood: I'm not saying this is a big deal and I think we already wasted more then enough brain energy over the subject, I just couldn't agree without setting the premise of the pipes being full.

[oblique hollow]

Alright. but just remember: If i consume as much as i produce, it works the exact same way as with belt manifolds: at first, most machines will be left dry,then near the end they all get enough fluid, because if the last machine doest get enough, you did your math wrong.

also, with valves, you have to deal with the math i showed you today

the only thing valves change is the time until all machines are running

[frosty owl]

also, with valves, you have to deal with the math i showed you today
@oblique hollow Sure, I'm not refuting any of those points!
Also valve math can be avoided as long as you're sure to provide a full pope's worth, correct?

Pope LMAO... You know what I meant

[oblique hollow]

well.... for that, you need a saturated pipe

[bleak coral]

And a priest to bless the water

[frosty owl]

the only thing valves change is the time until all machines are running
@oblique hollow Which kinda is the difference between load balancing and overflow, isn't it?

[oblique hollow]

you mean load balancing and manifolds

which is kinda the same, yes

[frosty owl]

I'm not very familiar with the manifold therm so I kinda use them both as the same... What's the difference? 🤔

[oblique hollow]

true overflow doesnt fill the next segment until the first machine is full

however, manifold always send part of the input to the next machine, regardless of how full the first one is

[frosty owl]

And a priest to bless the water
@bleak coral Holy Turbo fuel, yielding one holiness of power each prayer

[oblique hollow]

since junctions dont allow one side to completely drain the pipe

so half goes to one machine, half to the next junction

[frosty owl]

Oh, ok. Simple enough

[oblique hollow]

if your first machines consumes exactly half the input, the other machines still get the other half

if it consumes more than half, then it actually starves until the other machines are full

since, once again, junctions try to balance fairly

[bleak coral]

It all balances out in the end, cause a machine can't take more than it consumes once it's filled

[oblique hollow]

exactly. a machine can take in as much as the pipe can supply, but the internal storage is only like 50 m³.
after that, intake is limited to the machine's demand / minute

[steady jolt]

so would using valves to limit the input on all my refineries just make it more overall more efficient?

[signal nimbus]

You'd be limiting it to what they're already taking in, so probably not. All it does, from what I can tell, is prevent water from back-flowing (situationally useful) and allow load-balancing fluids to make them quicker to start up. Also allows you to shut off networks of pipes to redirect the flow somewhere else.

[glacial hemlock]

I don't see a use of valve in this game, at least in my saves

I would be more glad if they introduce priority merger valve or overflow valve instead, although both are also optional.

[signal nimbus]

In mine, I'd put them on to help with the water tower if I use that again or get back to it, maybe also load-balancing to get the oil factories primed faster. Less wait time on giant factories to see if they work is not a bad thing.

[glacial hemlock]

hmm, interesting

[frosty owl]

Oh yeah, balancing oil/refined liquids can be quite handy unless you already have everything full of liquid

[signal nimbus]

Also backup fuel storage. You can pipe the excess to a storage tank, then pipe it back to the input. Set a valve to 0, and then change it to max when you have an outage.

[steady jolt]

really if you set up enough refineries for the oil you have, you shouldnt need valves to load balance

[frosty owl]

really if you set up enough refineries for the oil you have, you shouldnt need valves to load balance
@steady jolt Just like with overflow or manifold in conveyors, that applies only once all the pipes are full of fluid

[steady jolt]

yeah

[signal nimbus]

And the point I made is that it can take forever for a giant factory to warm up to see if everything is working correctly. It's less an efficiency add than a quality of life add.

[wind spade]

not really forever, the most I've seen was like two hours, which is nothing, especially if you let it fill while you build the next part

[bleak coral]

oh this old argument of does warmup time matter or not

always seems to come back up

[oblique hollow]

Using a valve for turning things on and off is the same step as connecting and disconnecting a pipe

So thats not very helpful

Actually sort of wasteful

Using them as one-way gates is completely acceptable, and not reducing head lift is a nicr bonus.

But the Limiting mechanic.... I found cases for Sample Builds i made.

If you use valves in Manifolds, maximum efficiency is ensured when all valves are set to the same Limit.

[bleak coral]

but what's the advantage to using them in manifolds?

out of curiosity though you mention they act like resisters, could you theoretically now make logic boards using valves and fluids?

[fierce ruin]

I'm not really clear on how these valves work but I think you need something like a transistor to make logic circuits. Something that can vary the flow depending on an input.
(Or a (radio) valve or tube, but those have one or more inputs that control the flow of electrons.)

[oblique hollow]

Logic requires "transistors" , yes. 3 inputs, and depending on the input on the "base", it changes the flow it lets through

The thing here is that the valves arent like diodes. They dont magically open once you apply a little pressure. They are always open

Something that seems possible though would be a "Potentiometer"

The best thing i managed to build with valves is a miniature version of my DOLA circuit: you lose 25% of input flow to charge up a buffer, and once input disconnects it empties at half the input rate. So basically a kind of "Capacitor"

Or Inductor, im not quite sure

Hmmm. I do wonder if i might be able to build Logic Gates in some way

Alright im pretty sure buffers are like Capacitors

[fierce ruin]

As I understand it the Satisfactory valves are one way?
So like a diode combined with a resistor.

[oblique hollow]

Yep

And Buffers parallel to a valve are a Low Pass Filter

[fierce ruin]

@oblique hollow Darn! You beat me to it. I was just going to correct the inductor thing.

[oblique hollow]

Which means my Flow Rate Equalizer (the thing which reduces flow fluctuation) is a low pass filter with diode

[fierce ruin]

Low Pass Filter? Isn't that a filter that lets low frequencies through but stops high frequencies?
How would that work?

[oblique hollow]

It turns oscillating flow into more stable flow

Example: Water extractor. It outputs 120, but that fluctuates between 100 and 140

The flow rate equalizer turns that into an almost perfect 120

[fierce ruin]

Ok, that analogy could work.

[oblique hollow]

If you have very slow oscillation, then the output is still fluctuating

But fast fluctuations are blocked, hence Low Pass filter

[signal nimbus]

Trying to design a Heavy Modular Frame factory, but I'm not sure which recipe I should base it around. I know Heavy Encased Frames are cheap because they use more Limestone than other materials, but i found that Heavy Flexible Frames are a bit more resource-efficient.

[sand garnet]

heavy encased frame

theyre the best

[obsidian sluice]

flexible frames require oil products, which usually means you gotta dedicate some oil nodes to it

which can be a pain, since if you manufacture them along with fuel/turbofuel, your plant's output is limited by total fuel consumption

[signal nimbus]

Gotcha... I was going to dedicate the gold coast to rubber/plastic production.

Or alternatively just use the nodes inside my base. (About 450/minute, not counting the spire coast? I think that's the name of the biome.)

But that's a good point, thanks.

Yeah, after running the numbers, Encased uses more limestone and coal, but those are cheap compared to the massive oil refinery I'd have to dedicate to the flexible frame option.

[frosty owl]

which can be a pain, since if you manufacture them along with fuel/turbofuel, your plant's output is limited by total fuel consumption
@obsidian sluice What about using the extra fuel to make even MORE plastic/rubber

[bleak coral]

realistically though turbofuel with diluted packaged fuel is so efficient that there's plenty of leftover oil if you want to do flexible frame

and if you're already introducing oil into, you might look into some of the coated recipes

I know steel coated plates are crazy efficient if you put in the work

[dusty crow]

I have the exact amount of parts for full 100% production for reinforced iron plates, about 30. But for my screws its 80, which is 20 more then the actual value. Any way to reduce the amount of screws by 20 while keeping t good?

like will this work?

yes? no?

[signal nimbus]

I actually checked out the coated recipes for this. Doesn't take much rubber and plastic to make the whole thing a lot more iron efficient.

[frosty owl]

I know steel coated plates are crazy efficient if you put in the work
@bleak coral 500 ingots to 750 plates? With a measly 100 plastic per minute? Yeah, sounds like a good deal to me

I have the exact amount of parts for full 100% production for reinforced iron plates, about 30. But for my screws its 80, which is 20 more then the actual value. Any way to reduce the amount of screws by 20 while keeping t good?
@dusty crow Yep, that's usually what I do too. Remember that you need to have both of the 2 "20" screws outputs always feeding something, though! If one stops, all 40 will go to the other side

[dusty crow]

yeah i'm gonna have it leading into a container

[signal nimbus]

Good news: my heavy modular frame/general ironworks factory is mathed out.

Next up: finding 17 pure limestone nodes and 9 pure coal nodes.

Any suggestions?

[naive ingot]

You might be able to get that much limestone from the Rocky Desert... But you're looking at harvesting three or four biomes for that much coal.

[upbeat tide]

Southern rocky desert has a lot of limestone.

I use that limestone for my cheap silica build tho.

[naive ingot]

Are you considering using the Compacted Steel Ingots for this? You might get away with a lot less coal used by subbing in a bit of Sulphur.

[signal nimbus]

I'm already using Solid Steel Ingots.

[upbeat tide]

If you have spare oil nodes, coke steel is better

[naive ingot]

Ah, well nevermind.

Who ever has spare oil though?

[signal nimbus]

I'll look into both, that's why I post here.

[signal nimbus]

slowly raises hand

[upbeat tide]

Now we have access to pure oil nodes

That said I 100% use solid steel ingots

[frosty pawn]

@upbeat tide this is why solid steel ingots is my favourite

35 foundries is just no thanks

[signal nimbus]

Yeah more oil is not a problem, I'm right on the Spire Coast. At the same time, I'm planning on a lot of turbo fuel power plants.

[frosty owl]

The solid one is the one with iron ingots, right?

[frosty pawn]

yes

[upbeat tide]

Yes

[frosty pawn]

uses iron ingots instead of iron ore

[frosty owl]

Oh yah, that rocks. Though, the comp coal one saves a lot on coal if you got sulfur laying around too

[frosty pawn]

so you will need smelters as well as foundries, but the savings are worth it

[upbeat tide]

All others use ore

Sulfur is rare AF

[frosty owl]

Sulfur is rare AF
@upbeat tide But not needed as much as coal once you pass the turbo fuel part ^^

Of course it's all about what's convenient to you, in your location 😂

[signal nimbus]

Ended up going with the iron alloy ingots instead of regular.

[frosty pawn]

i built an iron+steel factory in northern forest in that spot with 4 pure iron and 2 pure copper because theres coal nearby. i OC mk3 miners to 150% for 720. I don't like to max belt capacity.

there is also oil not too far away down the cliff so i can bring plastic and maybe petroleum coke up the cliff

[frosty owl]

i built an iron+steel factory in northern forest in that spot with 4 pure iron and 2 pure copper because theres coal nearby. i OC mk3 miners to 150% for 720. I don't like to max belt capacity.
@frosty pawn
Me basing my megafactory in that exact spot Oh yeah? Tell me more! 😂

That spot is absolutely golden, really

[frosty pawn]

if youre putting your megafactory there, build it above the miners, you wanna put smelters and foundries at the bottom by the miners

i can go get you a screenshot of my building so far, gimme a few mins

[signal nimbus]

...may or may not be building his mega factory there as well...

[frosty owl]

Sure! I always welcome screenshots! Just be sure to post them in the appropriate channel and leave a tag 😁

It's the easiest place to start in the end... No need to build big things early on as everything is close by, you get to late tiers quickly... What more could one want?

if youre putting your megafactory there, build it above the miners, you wanna put smelters and foundries at the bottom by the miners
@frosty pawn Man, I just realized I don't have even a single smelter 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[signal nimbus]

Well... there is relative. It also covers most of the oil nodes in the Spire Coast and touches the crater lakes and Rocky Desert.

[upbeat tide]

My current projects osnt near yours fellas, but feel free to see #screenshots

[frosty pawn]

i just took some screenshots but it's so compact you can barely make sense of what youre seeing lol

that miner out the front isnt being used yet

[upbeat tide]

To discrive mone

1. My silica floor. 8belts of 700/min when done
2. Quickwire floor. Too many 450/min lines
3. Overview of the whole biome

Including alclad, crystal ocilators, encased uranium pellets, a massive train platform, and sooooo many pure ingot alt refineries

[frosty pawn]

if i remove the side wall you can see the smelters are in rows of 8 and the whole thing is in a manifold layout with a smart splitter at the end of each row set to overflow into the next pair of 8+8 rows

[frosty owl]

that miner out the front isnt being used yet
@frosty pawn That's what happens when you got so many pure nodes you don't even know what to do with 🤣
So right now you're making 720x3 irong ingots and those suffice, right?
Also, I DID say to post those in the right channel... Take @upbeat tide as an example: nobody asked him to, yet he posted in the right place! (I'm kidding, love to see from you too :P)

Including alclad, crystal ocilators, encased uranium pellets, a massive train platform, and sooooo many pure ingot alt refineries
@upbeat tide Lemme bet: 400/500 machines? 🤔

[upbeat tide]

More

And thats just one of my zones 🙂

[frosty pawn]

the miners are OC to 150% to give 720 because it's easy for me to do the math that way. 1080 steel/min output

plus some extra iron

[upbeat tide]

That image linked in screenshots is a outdated SCIM but gives the idea

[frosty owl]

@frosty pawn Aerial screenshots are usually the easiest to understand, especially with si much glass
But the shot with the missing wall is nice, gives a good idea (again, a little higher wouldn't hurt 😉)

[frosty pawn]

too much glass lol

multiple floors don't help

[frosty owl]

More
@upbeat tide... 601?
Come on, don't keep me hanging, spit out the hundreds 😂

[upbeat tide]

Remind me in a hour or so

Ill do a updated SCIM list

[frosty owl]

too much glass lol
@frosty pawn Just a tad! But at least it gives a good idea of what is where (to me at least). Could use some normal foundations too, though 😂
To highlight the glass, you know?

[upbeat tide]

@frosty owl even more areas of my bases

[frosty pawn]

i took the roof off for you, but it's meant to be a floor for the iron and steel parts production that i put on top and it helps me to look down to make sure belts dont go dry

[frosty owl]

Well, ain't that quite the grandiose show @upbeat tide ... I sure hope you used area action for all that 😨
Anyway, what's a SCIM list? I'm not good with acronyms 😅

[frosty pawn]

all of this steel and iron isnt going anywhere at the moment, there's a belt just hanging out a wall somewhere

[hybrid star]

this I think is a quick query I just didn't see the answer on gamepedia. If I am producing 21 nuclear fuel rods per minute (normal recipe one node) how many power plants should I build. Everything is ready to go except for the power plants its just a question of turning on the uranium miner

[upbeat tide]

Satisfactory calculator website @frosty owl

[frosty pawn]

theres a little concrete factory on the limestone node over to the left and that other building on the right is temporarily making motors and computers until i delete the top floor to make more copper parts

[frosty owl]

i took the roof off for you, but it's meant to be a floor for the iron and steel parts production that i put on top and it helps me to look down to make sure belts dont go dry
@frosty pawn Eyy, that's too sweet of you 😘
Looks like you crammed those foundries just nice. That valley is so damn narrow! Beltspace is hard to deal with there

[upbeat tide]

And no use of AA

[frosty pawn]

mk5 belts make this even possible 😅

[frosty owl]

this I think is a quick query I just didn't see the answer on gamepedia. If I am producing 21 nuclear fuel rods per minute (normal recipe one node) how many power plants should I build. Everything is ready to go except for the power plants its just a question of turning on the uranium miner
@hybrid star 1 fuel rod/minute is enough for 5 generators

[hybrid star]

its not like a 105 generators then is it?

whoa boy. I thought the crazy part was over

[frosty owl]

And no use of AA
@upbeat tide.... You crazy?
You WANT ca carpal tunnel to hit you hard?!
Dear God, I'm in pain for your mouse at this point 🤣🤣🤣
Must've been at least 1200h...

[hybrid star]

this is 360 hours but second world after I abandoned my doomed spagoo workd

[frosty owl]

whoa boy. I thought the crazy part was over
@hybrid star If you build less it's not an issue. Fuel rods are compact so storing them is easy and convenient 😉

[frosty pawn]

I don't use any mods either 😜

[hybrid star]

I dont either

Its more of a goal to use all the rods, or have the setup there that they could all burn at max efficency. its a dumb goal

but its what im doing

[frosty owl]

I bowed down to the area action after about 20k foundations. I just don't have that much time 😭

[frosty pawn]

i like to build in 8s and 6s because of mk2 and mk3 power poles 😄

[frosty owl]

Its more of a goal to use all the rods, or have the setup there that they could all burn at max efficency. its a dumb goal
@hybrid star Hey, no dumb ideas here. They're called preferences and it's what drives us forward! 😁

[hybrid star]

cheers

so 105 reactors

that should take, a while

I guess I can sink the rods in the meantime

[frosty owl]

I guess I can sink the rods in the meantime
@hybrid star That or storing. Both work

[upbeat tide]

@upbeat tide.... You crazy?
You WANT ca carpal tunnel to hit you hard?!
Dear God, I'm in pain for your mouse at this point 🤣🤣🤣
Must've been at least 1200h...
@frosty owl

That save is as old as Update 3

[hybrid star]

oh they'll back up for miles once the reactors turn on because I am in no way using that much power

[frosty owl]

i like to build in 8s and 6s because of mk2 and mk3 power poles 😄
@frosty pawn Will you convert to the ceiling ones when out? ^^
(Also, goddammit, put the screenshots in #screenshots! 😡)

[signal nimbus]

XD I was wondering who'd say it first!

[frosty pawn]

@frosty owl i got a new screenshot for you, will put in that channel, and no i'm already on experimental and these power poles are staying because it's easy for me to adjust production by disconnecting a cable here or there. its difficult to connect the 10th wire to a mk3 wall connector 😦

just realised that coal belt needs adjustment xD

[frosty owl]

Ahaha, fair enough

[frosty pawn]

so there's 9 rows of 8 smelters, 18 foundries

[frosty owl]

See, now THOSE are very nice screenshots @frosty pawn! Me approves 👌

[frosty pawn]

only the miners are overclocked, 1 pure coal, 3 pure iron all of them to 150% (720)

[frosty owl]

So compact, loving it (I like compact buildings xD)

[frosty pawn]

this is deliberate, to keep all the basic parts that i can manufacture in this small space - steel beams, encased steel beams, steel pipes. i will send them off to somewhere else by train

down the cliff by the water i have a little tiny alclad setup with just 1 refinery making aluminium scraps at 100% and turning those into alclad sheets

bauxite delivered manually to a truck station from the swamp whenever i want some more sheets until i can make a proper factory for it

i will probably also make basic iron parts here as well and since there is so much quartz probably oscillators

[frosty owl]

Ahahahah, the lazy manual deliver!!
Would you believe it if I said my nuclear power still runs partly on manual deliveries? 🤣

[frosty pawn]

but there is a big cave directly to the west which i want to make use of, so i can probably put the oscillator production in there. there is also a lot of coal at the entrance to that cave

i can have a train line going from inside that cave all the way to the swamp - there is a lot of oil, copper, iron, coal, quartz to make use of

plus a huge amount of water

[frosty owl]

Are you talking about the "quartz cave"?

[frosty pawn]

Yeah, i cleared out ALL the rocks and mycelia

it's quite spacious when the fog clears xD

quartz in the cave, on the cliff near my iron factory and near the swamp. a lot of quartz. i could share the resources between the cave and the swamp to make a lot of alclad and electronics

so now i need to decide how i'm gonna use 1080 steel/min :\

[signal nimbus]

Not to be cheesy... but well and sparingly, because you may soon find that it's not enough.

[frosty owl]

so now i need to decide how i'm gonna use 1080 steel/min :
@frosty pawn 30% plates, 70% tubes
It's usually a good ratio if you're done with the elevator and got enough alt recipes

[frosty pawn]

but theres 2 pure copper and 1 pure limestone nearby and i realised i probably should dismantle the whole thing and get the copper/iron alloy recipes to enhance production of both

unless my 1 extra pure iron node is enough to satisfy both of the copper nodes

[glacial hemlock]

@frosty pawn you have so much glass, better upgrade your cpu and gpu (when you can buy them)

[frosty pawn]

@glacial hemlock my fps is fine xD

my overclocked 980ti hasn't showed any signs of aging in over 5 years

[frosty owl]

@frosty pawn you have so much glass, better upgrade your cpu and gpu (when you can buy them)
@glacial hemlock He can afford it since he made such a compact building 😍

He/she... I'm not assuming 🙄

[signal nimbus]

CPU more than GPU, I'd say. But if the GPU's only 5 years old, then honestly if it's an i7 or i9 it should be fine.

In that case GPU.

[frosty pawn]

i7 9700K, also overclocked just a little 😉

[signal nimbus]

Oh yeah, you're fine.

980 ti's are still relevant, even.

[frosty owl]

Come on, if I can run 1k machines, anything that doesn't use wodden transistors can run this game 🤣

[signal nimbus]

See... there's "run", and "run well on high graphics settings".

Doom can run on a potato. Upgrading the potato is worth it.

[frosty pawn]

my GPU really doesn't struggle no matter what game i try. I only just realised how old it is when i saw it at the bottom of Jensen's chart in the nvidia 3000 series release presentation and i was like "huh, i guess i'll wait for 4000"

[signal nimbus]

Or go team red.

[frosty pawn]

i had to go and find my invoice to find out how old it is

the new AMD GPUs apparently better than nVidia and can boost a little more with an AMD CPU

so probably in like 5 more years i'll do my next upgrade xD

[signal nimbus]

Competitive, yeah. Way better price to performance. I also wouldn't wait 5 more years, by that time you will have a potato.

[frosty owl]

See... there's "run", and "run well on high graphics settings".
@signal nimbus Hey, if it runs, it funs 😂

[frosty pawn]

not just price to performance, more performance per watt

in 5 years that begins to mean something

[signal nimbus]

Honestly that just translates into better price to performance since you won't need as big a psu.

[bleak coral]

I'm wondering if older cards will keep chugging along for a while longer

like 900 series or abouts

at least for 1080p, cause the new consoles are targeting 4k 60fps

[signal nimbus]

High-end? Well enough. Low-end? Less so.

[bleak coral]

so if you instead target 1080p 60 or 30 fps, you might get away with a weaker card

[signal nimbus]

Depends on the game, I'd guess?

[frosty owl]

#off-topic-tech, lads ^^

[frosty pawn]

my overclocked 980ti is about the same (slightly better) than a stock 1080ti and runs practically anything at ultra settings today

oh oops

[signal nimbus]

...didn't know that channel existed...

[frosty owl]

I'm glad I was of service!

[weak plinth]

Hey guys, does anyone have a suggestion how I can split 23 MK5 Belts into 29? The 29 Belts need 600/min. The incoming Belts provide 18x 780 each, 4x 720 each, and 1x 480

[silver cargo]

you can use 2x mk3 and 1 mk1 belt to get exactly 600 when combined

2x mk3 = 540 + mk1 = 60 = 600

[frosty pawn]

that's actually pretty cool... 1 splitter and 1 merger to limit the throughput to 600 😄

[weak plinth]

I'm not really concerned with limiting to 600/min. It's going into manifold systems anyway. I just need to distribute enough items onto each belt in a compact setup.

I've got most of the design done now,just need to merge a few more items onto 4 of the new belts now.

I simply split the 780 or 720 belts and then merged 4 of the outputs into one.

[frosty pawn]

that's a lot of belts. what's on them?

[weak plinth]

Packaged fuel 🙂

[frosty pawn]

wow 😮

[gaunt lynx]

hi. i am making 67.5 steel beams per minute. i want to make encased beams. using one assembler. how would i split 24 off of 67.5

[frosty pawn]

just use a splitter. 1 assembler will fill up pretty fast and then from that point only take what it needs.

or you can manually fill it with steel beams and it will only take 24/min, the rest will go out the other output of the splitter

[gaunt lynx]

ok. simple enough. i was going to split it off 4/10. then take 8/9ths and input that lol. which i thought there must be a better way

[frosty pawn]

there's really no point load balancing 1 machine. it's usually best to use manifolds so each machine takes what it needs and eventually they will all fill up and even out. when you have many machines, you can make multiple manifolds to feed each group of machines with one of your highest tier belt

IMO load balancing is most useful for train stations so that if at any point a train comes early and stops the platform from loading/unloading, at least you got as much material as you could into or out of it

[gaunt lynx]

good advice. for now it was just going to be one. but of course, i'm going to need more lol

[frosty pawn]

in that case, definitely put splitters at the inputs, then you can just put another assembler next to it and you have a manifold layout already

you can stack splitters and mergers btw. if you stack two, they will be high enough for the shortest lift you can make, if it's 2m (2 steps) away from having the arrows lined up when you put the first splitter down, the top one will be the perfect length for a lift to snap to

[gaunt lynx]

yeah. already using that for the input of coal and iron into the foundary

[frosty pawn]

you can also just make a temporary 1m high foundation to put the splitters for one of your materials on to prevent the belts from clipping through eachother

example: #screenshots message

there are a bunch of wall conveyor mounts all 1m apart behind the camera and an extra splitter before the manifold really close to both the first manifold splitter and the wall, so i raised the entire manifold input

[rancid plaza]

Hey guys a coal Genny does use 15 coal/min ?

[frosty pawn]

yes

[rancid plaza]

So a pure coal mk2 mine can support 16 gennys?

[frosty pawn]

yes, exactly

put 1 pipe for 8 generators, 3 water extractors, then pipe the other one the same and 3 more water extractors

2 separate pipe systems

[rancid plaza]

I'm lazyand cba to split the properly so i do 4 to 8 at 75% lol

[frosty pawn]

3 extractors is 360 water. 360/45 = 8

[rancid plaza]

Thought i might have had to make do with the 3 because of the space I had. lol

[wind spade]

I'm lazyand cba to split the properly so i do 4 to 8 at 75% lol
@rancid plaza you don't need to split properly, it balances itself automatically if you use manifold

[glacial hemlock]

Or you can make it modular and build bunch of 1:2 split

[rancid plaza]

really? so if i put a splitter in front of a middle one and the linked the other two to it?

[wind spade]

stuff like this works

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X

S = splitter or pipe junction
X = any building

[sand garnet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553550566991724545/771775761446600704/unknown.png this is the default 3:8 setup

no overclock/ underclock needed

with belts you can just do the same way the pipes are connect to the machines

[frosty pawn]

i just did this diagram to explain how easy it is to supply water to coal generators (see below for correction)

at no point in the whole thing does the amount of water in a pipe reach 300

in tom's screenshot, think of the middle extractor adding 60 in each direction, so there is 180 going in each direction. again, not reaching the maximum 300

those pumps dont even need to be powered btw, but at least they prevent the middle extractor from filling up and shutting down 🙂

[wind spade]

you have one extra generator in your schema

[sand garnet]

the pumps were purely in the screenshot for indicating the direction

you dont need those pumps at all in the setup

[frosty pawn]

oops, thanks

[weak plinth]

yep, mistake at the 3rd cross

[frosty pawn]

i'm tired 😫

[fierce ruin]

those pumps dont even need to be powered btw, but at least they prevent the middle extractor from filling up and shutting down 🙂
@frosty pawn How would that work?
If the outer pipes fill up without the flow from the center pump then it will fill up the center pipe and shut down anyways, won't it?
And does it matter if the pumps shut down when the full flow isn't needed?
Surely that will happen anytime the full output from the generators isn't being used?

[sand garnet]

it wont shut down

[oblique hollow]

In theory the two pumps wouldnt even be needed

[sand garnet]

yup

theyre just there to indicate how the flow moves

because people I originally showed it to didnt seem to understand that flow is omni-directional

[wispy cradle]

i just did this diagram to explain how easy it is to supply water to coal generators (see below for correction)
@frosty pawn Thank you, I couldn't figure it out myself.

[sand garnet]

is this easier to understand than the previous one?

[oblique hollow]

I mean they are all pretty clear if you ask me

[sand garnet]

this one doesnt have pumps

[glacial hemlock]

You don't even need to bend the pipe at the middle

[sand garnet]

no but this was meant to show more clearly how they're divided etc

[rancid plaza]

someone help me with some quick maths please.
3 x 2 pure coal and iron. How many foundrys do I need?

[weak plinth]

That turned into quite a mess... This is the 23-to-29 splitter I described above. Now let's hope I didnt miscalculate anything.. 😅

[sand garnet]

@rancid plaza if you open the miner UI it tells you the output

[frosty pawn]

@rancid plaza what is 3 x 2 pure coal and iron? you have 6 coal and 6 iron?

[rancid plaza]

It's 240 per node isn't it?

sorry 3 of each

[sand garnet]

you can use the ingame calculator for stuff too by the way

just press N and enter whatever you need to calculate

[frosty pawn]

press E on the miner to see the interface, it tells you how much it produces per minute

and then on the foundry

just divide the numbers

so if the miner is giving 240 and the foundry wants 45 then 240/45 = 5.33
you need 6 foundries

[rancid plaza]

Thank you @frosty pawn

[frosty pawn]

@sand garnet your screenshot is pretty easy to understand but my diagram was explaining that you can just connect extractors to any junction without having any extra pipe

[sand garnet]

yeah true

my diagram was more to show why 360 water is not an issue because it divides it to the machines and never surpasses 180 anywhere

[frosty pawn]

yeah you can see the numbers - 120 water comes in from the extractor and 45 is taken away by the generator, so the remaining 75 is added to the 120 from the next extractor but another 45 is removed and so on etc.

i havent done any kind of testing but i expect that when this configuration is running with a low power requirement, the extractors will shut down more frequently but i've never had a problem

[oblique hollow]

Yes, with low power demand, the extractors will run full.

[green crescent]

is there no updated tool for power calculation?

[upbeat tide]

The experimental update just dropped all of a few days ago. Give the community time 🙂

Plus its on experimental. They have time to update stuff since the majority of players dont load into Exp

[frosty pawn]

plus it's likely to change very quickly

[severe bluff]

the expermental solves the backflow issue with check valves which is nice so you can evenly split the middle extractor

[upbeat tide]

You could have done that anyway with a pump. Now backflpw correcting doesnt need power is the only difference

[oblique hollow]

Even unpowered pumps could solve backflow issues. So only the cost changed. From copper sheets and 2 rotors to some steel and some plastic

Besides, the middle extractor would split evenly without backflow limiting.

[jolly holly]

What is the point of load balancing conveyors

Doesnt manifold suffice?

Is it only to avoid maxing out a conveyor?

[frosty pawn]

manifold is fine most of the time

[jolly holly]

Manifold with overflow splitters is a godsent

[frosty pawn]

if you wanna max out a conveyor, it will do that on it's own if you feed it more than its max. load balancing really works well on train station platforms

but honestly, you can very easily load balance platforms by sending all your stuff into a storage container, then splitting from there

[jolly holly]

Yeah thats the only place i really use load balancing

I agree

I just think the logistics for load balancing is overcomplicating things for no reason

And sometimes takes a lot of space

It maybe easy at the start

But as the game advances the ratios become too hard to load balance

So its just better to shove everything on a belt and have it feed the machines in a manifold fashion

[frosty pawn]

yeah, load balancing is cool but we have more important things to build

[jolly holly]

Also i like your profile pic

Are you still playing that game?

[frosty pawn]

I got bored of it tbh, but update coming, so excited!

[south gulch]

fg

[glacial hemlock]

@rancid plaza How to calculate number of buildings:
https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Tutorial:Production_line

[signal nimbus]

Can't wait for my compacted coal plant to be done so I can show off some screenshots... it's getting close, though.

And looking 👌

[frosty owl]

We'll wait... We're patient @signal nimbus 😁
Will it be today?

[jolly holly]

Am I the only one here that values functionality over looks?

And that doesnt spend time making things look good?

[sand garnet]

i like organized chaos

[jolly holly]

Mine isnt that messy

Its just boxes

Each box does something

And a bigger box that is main base

[worthy copper]

i dont even have boxes, i just have a big platform with manifolds packed onto it lol

[jolly holly]

Thats first step for me

[sand garnet]

I like using conveyorlifts throughout my factory

[jolly holly]

I only make it a box when i know i wont need to expand anymore

[sand garnet]

getting everything zig-zagging all over the place

[frosty owl]

Am I the only one here that values functionality over looks?
@jolly holly I did the same in my first 3/4 playthroughs. But then I got ambitious 😂

[jolly holly]

Im on my first playthrough

Must say i can see the difference between when I started and now

My early builds are spaghetti

Now they are just manifolds

With lifts

[frosty owl]

We build, we delete, we improve 👍

[jolly holly]

Only problem is my storage is all over the place

[signal nimbus]

@frosty owl Not likely for the finished product, but... probably for the actual power plants and pipework.

[jolly holly]

And i cant think of a way to make a storage area without starting to make spaghetti again

Programable splitters?

[glacial hemlock]

@jolly holly I heard someone said "functionality over aesthetics"

[jolly holly]

Okay not even foundations

You win

[glacial hemlock]

this is my speedrun base, it allowed me to unlock the 2nd elevator phase.

[frosty owl]

Programable splitters?
@jolly holly Those work GREAT for automatic storages 👍

[worthy copper]

no foundation twitch

[gleaming marten]

foundations are a waste of time speedrunning tbf

[frosty pawn]

@glacial hemlock that actually looks really nice. like a medieval village. much more attractive than the boring pseudo-minecraft mega-towers 😩

[worthy copper]

probably, but my need for compactness overcomes any other desires

and foundations are sorta necessary for that one

[frosty pawn]

using foundations because we have to, even though we don't want to ._.

i like compactness too, but also verticality which pretty much requires putting everything in a giant box

[frosty owl]

Hey, boxes can be cool too
Like with some paint and such... Or if you order them in a certain fashion
...

[fresh elm]

Verticality doesn't mean you have to use boxes. Get creative, particularly since you have vertical space now for routing belts and power

[frosty pawn]

if i want machines above other machines, i need to use foundations. if i want to make the conveyors manageable, conveyor walls are the easiest way. pretty much have a building to put around the machines at that point

[fresh elm]

Or, you can spend a little more time and get creative. Just because you have foundations and walls doesn't mean it needs to be a box

[frosty pawn]

this is about as creative as i get without foundations, and even this uses foundations #screenshots message

[fresh elm]

Just like because you've played factorio everything doesn't have to be a bus

[frosty pawn]

i've never played factorio xD but i get it

[fresh elm]

There's a lot of options for not just making something boxy

Or getting more creative with the tools you have

And even if you want to do stuff on giant open planes you can get creative

[frosty pawn]

😃

[fresh elm]

All taken from the world I made in 3.5

Err 3.0

Sorry, I haven't played much 3.5 yet still getting over burning out 2500 hours into update 3 ;)

[worthy copper]

hmmm.
I may want to copy something similar to that nuclear plant setup and jury-rig it to the compact one i did

where i put the 5 water extractors under the 2 nuclear plants

there is art that can be done with super-compacting...
I just need to find out how

[fresh elm]

do extractors work placed underwater?

I don't think they do

[sand garnet]

they need to be on a water later

there's a few under the map lol

[signal nimbus]

I'll add that even technically just putting everything in a giant box can still look good, if you go for a monolithic style and make some interesting foundation-based shapes.

[wispy cradle]

Im thinking if undercloking is useless in big projects. Because ther power drop of a the last 2 machines in a long manifold is negible. And you need remember to reverse underclok when upgrade the project. What do you think?

[fresh elm]

it's not the power

it's the consistency of output

and the consistent use of input

for me, it doesn't matter as much, I use dedicated stuff for everything I make - but if you're trying to use a bus of any sort it can lead to a lot of weirdness

[bleak coral]

It also contributes to spiky power readings as machines turn off and on cause the last two machines in the manifold are underfed and unstable

[north topaz]

How much coal per minute consumes a coal generator at 100% capacity?

[dusky dust]

15

[fresh elm]

it says right on it

[wispy cradle]

@fresh elm I think the consistency of input and output are obtained with sinks.

I don't use bus anyway.

[bleak coral]

In combination with underclocked machines so machines don't turn on and off

[wispy cradle]

@bleak coral, yeah I know. But if just the last 2 are unstable the spike could be negible

[fresh elm]

even with infinite power, I still underclock machines

[wispy cradle]

imagine a floor with 30 machines

[fresh elm]

"infinite"

[bleak coral]

The last two times however many manifolds you have

[fresh elm]

and 30 machines is not that many

that's a single line of ore

[dusky dust]

Heh, how's your Actual Base coming along, anyway?

[fresh elm]

I haven't worked on my actual base in a while lol. finished the power plant, burned out a little, will come back soon

[dusky dust]

I can't imagine how that project could've burnt you out. :D

[fresh elm]

was stoked to see my world in the update video though 😄

[wispy cradle]

i'm thinking it is negible with 30. Imagine with anything bigger

[fresh elm]

I have thousands of machines running

I still underclock

I also have more power than you do, and I still underclock

[wispy cradle]

@fresh elm , it is not an argument.

[fresh elm]

I just don't like having machines idle

ever

the only machines that idle in my world are water extractors and miners

[wispy cradle]

@bleak coral gave a good argument: It is 2 machines X number of manifolds

[fresh elm]

I don't have to imagine

[wispy cradle]

I'm just thinking if the micro management of underclock worth in manifolds

[fresh elm]

it is, if you want consistency

machines turning on/off also cause more actions per tick

scale up ad nauseum

when I say my world is big, my world is big - and it's worth the underclocking

[wispy cradle]

when I say my world is big, my world is big - and it's worth the underclocking
@fresh elm , again, it is not a valid argument.

[fresh elm]

actions per tick IS an argument.

because I get ridiculously slow fps because of the size of my world.

[wispy cradle]

actions per tick IS an argument.
@fresh elm It is indeed.

[fresh elm]

You just told me it wasn't.

by quoting the last line

[wispy cradle]

this is not: " my world is really big and I still underclock".

[fresh elm]

it's part of the same statement, I just hit enter as I talk.

machines spinning up / turning off have a definite impact on my performance.

which is why my game fluctuates between 5 and 45 fps constantly

[wispy cradle]

Lets summarize: no underclocked machines do more actions that increments the weigth that impact FPS,

[fresh elm]

not exactly - it's more the state change from running/not running. if you don't need to underclock I wouldn't

and because the endgame is full of weird fractions, it becomes difficult to avoid it

[wispy cradle]

I'm talking just about those that need

Even understanding the incremental increase of FPS impact i'm still thinking, could it be negible if you compare it with all the motion involved in a line production?

[bleak coral]

I think it was a mistake to run this diluted fuel loop as a manifold system, it would have taken way less canisters to stabilize it if it was run in serial

[glacial hemlock]

True, i used more canister than i thought at first

[bleak coral]

also I've had this fear I'll clog up the system with too many canisters and stop the flow of fuel

but that's not actually possible right? cause fuel and empty canister are created at the same rate

[cedar mica]

It depends on how much is floating around on belts

Not to mention, stacked into machines

So a manafold, need way more empty cannisters, to fill the machines

[bleak coral]

yeah I've seen my mistake now, it's too late for this system, it's almost done anyway so it'd be more work to tear down and move around machines

but next time I'll plan a serial system

[fresh elm]

all of my packaged diluted system is manifolded

you have to seed it with a bunch of canisters, but that's nbd

[bleak coral]

I think I put too many in though cause the last two/three fuel unpackers started to clog with empty canisters

[quick pawn]

If I want 18 smelters running with an additional smelter at 75% eff, what would be the best way to split the inputs up to make it perfect?

[cedar mica]

So a 1 to 18.75 balancer? Thats going to take some space and brain power

I would just skip the 75% one and do 1 to 18. 1-2-6-18. 3 simple steps

[bleak coral]

the 18 split above, but run them all at 104% clockspeed if you want the closest output to 18.75 with a balancer; 18.75/18 = 1.0416666666667

would require a lot of power shards though

[cedar mica]

Or maybe a smart splitter with overflow, to force the 75% one. But not sure it would run at 100%, as the smart splitter slows it down a little, when it switches outputs

[bleak coral]

close enough, I don't think that smart splitter slowdown is appreciable

but then it's basically a hybrid balancer/manifold system

[cedar mica]

Maybe even better if the 75% smelter, is the overflow

[quick pawn]

actually I think I have it sorted now

but, I need to split 1 into 19...

or 20 would work too tbf

waittt

[bleak coral]

oh duh, yeah split it into twenty then you underclock instead of overclock

I don't know why I went in the opposite direction

[quick pawn]

I need to split them into a smelter which takes 30/m, so could I just have a 480 (mk4) running horizontal, with 30 (mk1) running down to each smelter?

19 smelters*

there will be 2 480's though

[cedar mica]

1-2-5-10-20. Should work, but might need to merge the 6th output of the 2nd split, back in

[quick pawn]

but would my way not work? it's a lot cleaner

[nova orchid]

Is it reasonable to overclock when i need 4,07 x constructors to produce something?

[cedar mica]

480/30 is 16. So you need an mk2 belt, running beside it

[quick pawn]

it's fine I plan on using 2 480's

the horizontal belt doesn't really matter as long as it can fit I guess

[cedar mica]

I would just put down 26 smelters or 780 belt worth. Then just dont hock up the remaining 7, till you have mk5

[wispy cradle]

@quick pawn use injected manifold

[quick pawn]

not sure what that is

[cedar mica]

Manafold, where you merge belts in, as you go. Which is kind of what you where planning

[quick pawn]

Mine is more load balanced than manifold though

since it uses T1 belts to balance it

[bleak coral]

it's a manifold without a warmup

or with a shorter warmup if not all of them need 30ppm

[worthy copper]

i think greeny and i wound up doing the math on it and if you let it reach steady state, what happens is unless its perfectly balanced, it doesnt matter what you do when it comes to metering inputs

cause in the far future youre going to have the same number of 'lost' inputs, represented by the items in the machine buffers
and the only way to keep those from building up is to perfectly balance

[cedar mica]

So method dont matter, just input vs usage

[bleak coral]

it's all a wash in the end, it just matters if you care about warmup time or not

[worthy copper]

like the difference is do you want to run at 60% for 5 minutes or 80% for 10 minutes kinda deal

before hitting 100

[cedar mica]

Warm up time, only matters on power plants, if you are strapped for power. You need the power, the plant gives, to fully power the production

[bleak coral]

only if you didn't start making the plant with enough power to start it up from your grid

and for your first coal plant, just add enough fuel in the jumpstart biomass generators

[cedar mica]

Seeing lots of people trying to solve there power problem, but forget the power needed to kickstart. Which is where warmup time would matter, if you dont start it bit by bit

[winged dagger]

My coal power plant and my big Turbo-fuel facility are wired in stages, with a few of each machine starting up before I turn the whole thing on... I guess I don't mind the warmup time as I just go work on some other details while the water lines fill.

[fierce ruin]

are fully overclocked 3 fuel gens better than 90m^3 feed heavy turbo fuel power gens ?

[bleak coral]

I don't understand the question, what are you trying to compare?

how many generators you can support on the same amount of oil from producing fuel vs using heavy turbo fuel?

[wind spade]

turbo heavy fuel is pretty bad

also depends on recipes

also overclocking generators is pretty useless, just build more, same result, no wasted shards

[fierce ruin]

absolutely @bleak coral

@wind spade i save hell lotta space with overclocking

but i also made 13 fuel gen setup with 300m^3 oil

[wind spade]

but space is pretty much infinite

[bleak coral]

do you have the heavy oil residue alt?

[fierce ruin]

i did my first fuel gen in my main base so it was not that infinite lol

do you have the heavy oil residue alt?
@bleak coral i wish :/

[bleak coral]

so you'd have to do the janky rubber -> heavy oil residue setup

[fierce ruin]

i'll search till i get this recipe

[bleak coral]

which is better than just crude -> fuel

but is one of the lesser setups

[fierce ruin]

i checked interactive map

yea youre right

but the thing im curious is, will it worth the effort ?

[bleak coral]

also turbo fuel doesn't produce more electricity per generator, it burns slower so you can support more generators

4.5m^3/min for turbofuel vs 15m^3/min for fuel

at 100% clockspeed

[fierce ruin]

damn thats pretty good actually

more than 3 times

[bleak coral]

yup

[fierce ruin]

which means 36 fuel gens i think

i run 12 with 300m^3 oil input

i mean fuel gens ofc

i think its worth trying doesnt it ?

[bleak coral]

with only turbo heavy fuel and nothing else you can do 35.5 generators

off of 300m^3/min

the real heavy hitter is diluted fuel, that's what makes oil super efficient

[fierce ruin]

how much is the HOR output with alt recipe btw

[bleak coral]

btw I'm just doing setups on this calculator: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

you could play around with different setups to see what you'd be happy with if you found it in hard drives

[fierce ruin]

youre the best man

[bleak coral]

that calculator lets you set how much resources it'll use, and what recipes it'll use

[fierce ruin]

i really appreciate your help and time

[bleak coral]

you can switch to maximize from items/min on that drop down to get let it solve for most items made from given resources

you'll need to take that number back to items/min though to get the best resource use version, maximize only solves for most items not for resource efficiency

[fierce ruin]

alright m8 thanks again so much

[signal nimbus]

@wind spade Turbo Heavy Fuel is still the second most efficient way to turn oil into power, once you account for the significantly lower energy requirements of the production chain. I wouldn't call it "pretty bad" so much as "not as oil-efficient but way less stress-inducing and time-demanding".

[sand garnet]

if you're going to do turbofuel, might as well go all out

otherwise the extra effort for turbofuel is barely worth the gain

[wind spade]

yeah if you don't care about resource efficiency, just use the normal fuel recipe

[signal nimbus]

Not much effort with turbo heavy fuel.

[sand garnet]

adding whole production lines for compacted coal, making the turbofuel

its all just more effort

effort for relatively little gain

[signal nimbus]

To be fair, the hundreds of refineries you dont need to setup can be argued as being worth the 10-12 GW you gain going from Turbo Heavy Fuel to the diluted packaged fuel setup.

[winged dagger]

Turbo fuel delivers like 10x the power from the same amount of crude oil input, I guess it depends on how you define success criteria

[sand garnet]

320 TF per min compared to 666 per min

that's quite a boost

[signal nimbus]

By my designs:

1350 Crude Oil into a Turbo Heavy Fuel plant produces 45741 MW net.

900 Crude Oil into a Diluted Packaged Fuel power plant produces 55446 MW net, keeping in mind this one siphons off a bit of fuel to normalize the numbers.

[sand garnet]

lets take 300 crude oil for easy math

regular fuel can make 8000MW out of that

turbo heavy fuel can make 10666MW out of that

[signal nimbus]

Mhm.

[sand garnet]

turbofuel can make 22200MW out of that

you can tell me many things, but not that the 2.6GW you get extra is worth the setup time lol

[signal nimbus]

Never said Turbo Heavy was more efficient, but I'll check your math. 11.534 GW extra.

Setup for Turbo Heavy is all of 13 assemblers and 21 refineries on those numbers, plus 72 generators.

Very quick and dirty, but also functional.

[sand garnet]

for fuel: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=lCHxczEAOjLVocBhTZ7F
for turbofuel: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=X4GDWx15pqN3vGA8AYKv

for turbo heavy fuel: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=3oAWoOvEAOwqeyFLsBM9

[signal nimbus]

Tom... what point are you trying to make? I don't think we're having the same discussion.

[sand garnet]

the point im trying to make is that the extra effort isnt worth the extra power

not for turbo heavy fuel

[signal nimbus]

The extra effort to go to turbo heavy fuel as compared to fuel is not worth the extra power?

[sand garnet]

yes

you get 2.6GW extra for a lot of extra setup

if you're already going the extra mile, willing to put in more effort, then why not go all out?

[signal nimbus]

Okay... so, I was talking about turbo heavy to turbo fuel.

Wasn't even thinking about fuel.

[sand garnet]

right thats what im saying

if you want to get turbofuel, IMO do it right

otherwise, why not just stick to regular fuel

as its easy to set up and gets you only 2.6GW less overall

[signal nimbus]

Fair point, here's why I would and plan to use turbo heavy fuel.

When you set up the compacted coal first.

[sand garnet]

right but you also needthat for the fullblown TF chain

[signal nimbus]

Uh huh.

Not smelling what I'm stepping in yet?

[sand garnet]

no

just be direct lol

[winged dagger]

Seems like Sulfur becomes precious in the late game

[signal nimbus]

Fair. My compacted coal power plant runs off of the same amount of compacted coal as my planned turbo fuel power plant. I set up the coal once, and can use it as a stepping stone plant. Next phase is turbo heavy fuel, which adds a bit of oil to the mix. Finally, Turbo Fuel.

[sand garnet]

ah you're using it as a stepping stone to the full TF chain

[winged dagger]

I skip from coal to fuel to turbo fuel

[sand garnet]

I assumed Turbo heavy fuel was your end

[signal nimbus]

Exactly.

Yeah no, not even close.

[sand garnet]

I dunno, somehow thats how I interpreted it lol

[signal nimbus]

On the other hand, if I unlock nuclear and am just fine on power with turbo heavy... go for the gold and dont bother with turbo? XD Yeah, I can see that. I just see uses for it where most people seem to ignore it or treat it as useless. Speed runs, "tiny" builds, certain art designs, etc.

[jolly holly]

Can anyone tell me why i would ever use a programmable spliter over a smart one?

[wind spade]

sorting systems

[jolly holly]

But wouldnt smart spliters be enough for that

[signal nimbus]

Mixed belts.

[wind spade]

they would, but I guess in some situations it may be benefitial

but yeah, they are not really needed

[jolly holly]

Cuz i just automated supercomputers and i realised they are worthless

Besides the radio alt

Theres no real use

[signal nimbus]

Best way to put it: you can probably accomplish 400 GW of power with turbo fuel power plants. Or a single nuclear node. Same effect, but one is easier.

[bleak coral]

You can use programmable to sort into sections of a warehouse and then smart to sort into bins

[jolly holly]

So your saying i should use those supercomps for rods

[bleak coral]

That's the only use I can think of

And the inputs of the different items would have to be pretty low too

[signal nimbus]

Sink 'em until you can use them for turbo motors, honestly.

[bleak coral]

I'll end up making a super computer factory just to make one, but I won't have much use for them

[signal nimbus]

If we only ever made what we need, who would make mega factories?

[jolly holly]

Well i was excited i finally automated them

Im not anymore

I guess they will come in handy for the radio units

[signal nimbus]

Mhm.

[jolly holly]

Wait why are turbo motors so usefull

Just the mk 3 miner

Thats it?

[sand garnet]

theyre the most complex item to make

[jolly holly]

So what?

Shall i make a trophy out of them?

Like look i beat the game

Everything up so far had a lot of uses

Maybe their uses will expand in the future?

Cuz for now i dont see why i would bother automating turbomotors

Like sure

Mk 3 miners are great

[wind spade]

great sink point value

[jolly holly]

And what do I do with the tickets

[sand garnet]

@jolly holly you beat a sandbox game that has no end?

you buy trophies with them, and unlock more structures etc to build with

[jolly holly]

No i mean

[sand garnet]

the game starts after unlocking all the tech IMO

[jolly holly]

Do you just win the game by having turbomotors automated

[sand garnet]

that's when you get full freedom to set up actual factories

[wind spade]

the game has no end goal now. Players usually make their own goals

[sand garnet]

no more limited by mk4 belts, no more limited by mk2 miners

[wind spade]

either by reaching a certain amount of points/min or automating certain items with a certain speed, etc.

[sand garnet]

no more power limitation due to nuclear power

you finally get to build the factory you've wanted from the start

[jolly holly]

It may be just me getting sad that the game is ending the progress system

[sand garnet]

infinite progression is basically impossible

[jolly holly]

Im through my first plauthrough and I loved every second i played

And now that its getting to an end

[sand garnet]

why not try mods? lots of different tech to work with

the modding discord is linked in #welcome

and their site is https://ficsit.app

[jolly holly]

Would you recommend any mods?

[sand garnet]

check the modding discord, they can help you with that stuff better than I can 🙂

[jolly holly]

I did

I also checked some mods

But i dont really see anything that I would want

And i was wondering what you use

[sand garnet]

I only use pak utility mod for testing purposes

other than that I play vanilla

even though I'm on the dev team for Refined Power and Farming mod

[jolly holly]

Wow

Thats like the biggest mod

The Refined power

[sand garnet]

I help with 3d models for it

[jolly holly]

But i honestly see it as overcomplicating things

I know thats the point

[sand garnet]

its a change of pace

[jolly holly]

But i see power as being hard enough for now

[sand garnet]

Modular power adds entirely different gameplay too

[jolly holly]

With the turbofuel loop setup

[sand garnet]

you'll enjoy the game most if you can see unlocking all the tech as the beginning of the real game, and not the end

as at that point you're finally in a position where you can actually start building what you want without limitation

[jolly holly]

But why would I

I dont see the point

[sand garnet]

because it's fun

[jolly holly]

I would rather start a fresh save

With me having all this knowledge now

[sand garnet]

then go do that

do what you enjoy 🙂

[jolly holly]

My problem with going on with this save is that its getting laggy

And i dont see a point

The only thing i could do is increase rates

Cuz i automated everthing almost

[sand garnet]

get creative with your factory

try new production lines

try different recipes, or try entirely different build styles

[jolly holly]

Some people have the goal of maxing out turbo motors

Some like building beautiful factories even if they dont care about the product

And some like to goof around

I like the math part of the game

Im not the aesthetic guy

Im the guy with the spreadsheets

[sand garnet]

then take a max and go build it

challenge yourself

[upbeat tide]

Im also a math guy. On the asthetics side, I like to build dynamiclly. Instead of building a huge floor, I like to do that, but then cut it down to fit, removing excess foundations

Like this build. There was alot more foundation laid before I decided to cut out the unused and filled in stuff.

[worthy copper]

new contest: 156 turbomotors/min world with the smallest save size

[naive ingot]

You're talking about fully utilizing Bauxite and almost fully utilizing several other resources... If that's not the definition of a megafactory, I'm not sure what is.

[glacial hemlock]

Yeah, 154 turbomotor and 150 supercomputer, plus some other things like 1200 heavy modular frame per min oh yeah

[obsidian sluice]

from satisfactorytools.com/production, it appears you can build 156 turbo motors/min? which'll leave you enough to still fully process all 1800 uranium/min to construct 94.5 NFR/min

1.18TW is a lot, but I'm not sure if you can run all your machines at 250% on that

[silent mortar]

Making the absolute smallest file size would have you start doing crazy things like deleting all the walls and foundations at the end, and using the two sided mk 3 wall mount, then deleting the wall it was on so you can run 18 lines of power off of a single point.

[obsidian sluice]

and you'll have to overclock all your power plants too!

well you'll halve the number of nuclear power plants, which isn't much, but you could use Mk 2 pipes to sustain a smaller number of plants and that helps

I'd also love to see someone implement a megafactory to max out ACU production, because you can produce 860/min ignoring power generation, and 775/min if you set aside resources to produce 94.5 NFR/min

apparently you're capped by quartz, so greeny's calculator actually suggests maxing bauxite production to extract silica from bauxite, and that's freaking wild

[bleak coral]

are you still on maximize?

[frosty pawn]

@silent mortar wait a second. double sided wall mount has double the max connections? is that right? that can't be right...

[bleak coral]

each side has it's own connections

it costs more to make too

[wind spade]

new contest: 156 turbomotors/min world with the smallest save size
@worthy copper easy, just ask all your friends to handcraft them for you

[frosty pawn]

holy crap, youre right! my world has been turned upside down

[worthy copper]

yeah double wall mounts are pretty awesome

[frosty pawn]

so the description in the build menu is wrong

e.g. for mk1 double sided it says maximum 4 connections, it should say on each side

the doublesided cost exactly double the materials except the two sides are automatically connected to eachother so technically better than putting two singlesided... this is very interesting....

[worthy copper]

.... this is true, its basically 6 available connections instead of 4 for the same material cost

[silent mortar]

The slight danger of it is accidentally connecting the two halves together as well, at which point you have to delete the wall to delete the line between them that isn't needed. Also it's kinda funny to delete the wall anyway and just have a floating power point.

[frosty pawn]

i'm going to have to use them more :D
I've been using wall mounts just to make "powered walls" that connect to poles and connecting poles to machines because it's more clear where all the connections are, but using only wall mounts turns out to be more efficient in my small buildings

i only used double wall mounts to make a single point on the outside of the building that connects to the grid so it's easy to disconnect an entire building and then come back later to reconnect it without having to scratch my head for 20 minutes trying to remember what i need to reconnect

[frosty owl]

.... this is true, its basically 6 available connections instead of 4 for the same material cost
@worthy copper You mean 8 instead of 6? 😂

i'm going to have to use them more :D
I've been using wall mounts just to make "powered walls" that connect to poles and connecting poles to machines because it's more clear where all the connections are, but using only wall mounts turns out to be more efficient in my small buildings
@frosty pawn Gotta say, I kinda saw it coming 😂

[boreal cypress]

its 8 jeah, but 7/6 because you need one for the power connection and maybe one to the next pole :D

[glacial hemlock]

Yeah, 2 for daisy chain, so actually it is 6. And because of this, double sided outlets are pretty useful

[frosty pawn]

mk1 double sided can connect to 4 machines, get power from the floor below and chain sideways to 2 more double sided mk1 and also up to the next floor. amazing 😄

just putting all the machine connections inside and the routing outside

[frosty pawn]

i decided to use the concrete next to my steel factory to make encased beams, so i built some constructors and then added up the numbers... theyre gonna eat ALL of the steel 😫
i'm gonna have to bring in some more coal and turn the rest of the iron ingots into steel too :\

[boreal cypress]

do you use the alt encased beams?

[frosty pawn]

don't have it

how much steel do i save with the encased pipes recipe compared to using steel beams?

[boreal cypress]

you should have it, much less steel for same ammount

how much iron do you have?

[frosty pawn]

4 pure nodes with mk3 miners

[boreal cypress]

and smelter or pure iron?

[frosty pawn]

1 pure concrete, 1 pure coal, there are a bunch of normal coal a little farther down the hill

smelters

[boreal cypress]

and oc miners?

[frosty pawn]

miners OC to 150% for 720 output each

one of the miners not in use, not much space, 3 of them currently producing 2160/min with the smelters, a lot of surplus

[frosty owl]

how much steel do i save with the encased pipes recipe compared to using steel beams?
@frosty pawn A lot. The beams should be used as sparingly as possible. 1 beam = 2.33 pipes

[boreal cypress]

with normal recipe (and 2880 iron ore) you can get 180 encased beam per minute
with alternate you can get 274,29 encased beams

[frosty pawn]

oh that's crazypants

better go hunting 😄

[boreal cypress]

and with pure iron ingot and solid steel ingot you can get 764,08 encased beams out of 2880 iron ore @frosty pawn

[signal nimbus]

...and how much Limestone?

[boreal cypress]

well depends on alternate xD

[signal nimbus]

Yeah... not that it's a rare resource or anything, but my Heavy Modular Frames factory ended up needing way more than I expected. Like... a biome's worth. And I wasn't making nearly that many encased beams.

[frosty owl]

...and how much Limestone?
@signal nimbus If you ever get the limestone-water alternative you'll never run out of concrete ever again

[boreal cypress]

well he need 11461,23 Limestone per minute without alternate for 764,08 encased beams

with wet concrete only 5730,61

[signal nimbus]

@frosty owl You're absolutely right. But if I mess with water extractors, I'd rather the annoyance be for something interesting.

[frosty owl]

What recipe you using for the HMF anyway?I usually use the one that takes less steel, the flexible one

[signal nimbus]

Encased is what I have statted out.

[boreal cypress]

the one without bolts xD

[signal nimbus]

Didn't feel like making a whole rubber refinery for it, but with how little I may end up using oil I may as well.

[frosty owl]

Eh, need to look it up, can't recall the numbers

[boreal cypress]

screw those bolts

[signal nimbus]

The difference in iron usage is negligible and coal is salvageable, but I think it takes around 2700 rubber/plastic per minute using that recipe, so I decided not to do that.

By "around" I mean +/- a few hundred.

[frosty owl]

Oh, right. I think I didn't pick that one as it took way too much steel for my likings

[signal nimbus]

Yeah, the coal's going to be the biggest pain when I get to building that one.

[frosty pawn]

i don't wanna use water because it's a steep cliff and that water is gonna be used for more important stuff. there is plenty of iron in this area already and a couple more decent quality limestone nodes if i ever want more concrete. I am using solid steel recipe though.

[signal nimbus]

looks at dune desert like an all-you-can-eat buffet

[frosty owl]

It's 63 steel pipes (and the rubber) Vs 106 steel pipes. Totally better the rubber one, IMO

Not worth saving on the heavy frames anyway xD

[boreal cypress]

for how much HMF?

[frosty owl]

3

That's not including the steel for the screws, but it's negligeable

[signal nimbus]

Hang on, I have a spreadsheet that lets me swap recipes on this and see how much they both take...

[boreal cypress]

which screws?

[frosty owl]

The ones for the HMF and the normal frames

I assume nobody still makes screws with iron 😂

[boreal cypress]

i dont even make screws

[frosty pawn]

whenever i need screws i put a steel screw constructor there, i dont have time for screw conveyors lol

[frosty owl]

i dont even make screws
@boreal cypress You make frames with rods?

[boreal cypress]

steel frame

[frosty owl]

Eyy, those suck on still quite heavy

*steel

[boreal cypress]

idc about steel alot ^^

[signal nimbus]

Heavy Encased Frame, using Modular Frame, Encased Industrial Pipe, Adhered Iron Plate, Steel Coated Plate, Steel Rod, Steel Beam, Steel Pipe, Concrete, Solid Steel Ingot, and Iron Alloy Ingot recipes requires these inputs:

[frosty owl]

I just try to use it sparingly as you have about 1/4 as much as iron

[signal nimbus]

Heavy Flexible Frame, using the same alternates, uses these inputs:

[boreal cypress]

how much per minute?

[frosty owl]

Sorry, Brandon, what? Is that the needed for 1 HMF?

[signal nimbus]

90 total output.

No, a full 90.

[boreal cypress]

well anyway... when will you need that many HMF?

[signal nimbus]

When I need to fill a large megabase with structures, and this is the most complicated item not remotely involved in the production of turbomotors?

[frosty pawn]

now i'm curious what a small megabase looks like xD

[boreal cypress]

you dont need HMF for Turbomotor

[signal nimbus]

Exactly.

[frosty pawn]

yeah that's what he said lol

[boreal cypress]

well i cant understand english that good xD

[signal nimbus]

Neither can Americans, you're in good company. (^is American, don't get offended)

[boreal cypress]

well Nuclear Fuel Rods arent quiet easy too :D

[frosty owl]

Heavy Flexible Frame, using the same alternates, uses these inputs:
@signal nimbus Ye, makes sense. Use lots more rubber, but save quite some steel. You can save more without the steel rods and even save some Iron/copper with the pure iron but... Water

[signal nimbus]

Yup. Decided to make this a dry build, and those aren't exactly horrible node requirements.

[boreal cypress]

Water isnt a problem with mk2 pipes now

[frosty owl]

Ahahah, "dry build"

[frosty pawn]

transporting water is half the problem it used to be, but still a problem

[frosty owl]

Water isnt a problem with mk2 pipes now
@boreal cypress Except filling a 600 pipe fully is a hassle

[frosty pawn]

5 extractors = 600

[boreal cypress]

jeah kinda xD lot of extractor when you dont use mods

or 2 extractor with 250%

[signal nimbus]

I mean... I build water extractors in 5s anyway. With the 300s I saw it nicely filled 2 pipes.

[frosty owl]

I think I'll limit myself to 540 to save myself the trouble... Too many choke points with 600

[frosty pawn]

how much power do they use at 250%?

[boreal cypress]

86MW

[frosty owl]

I mean... I build water extractors in 5s anyway. With the 300s I saw it nicely filled 2 pipes.
@signal nimbus Same, but when going to 600 it seems to choke sometimes for... Reasons. May be lag

[frosty pawn]

so 72MW extra to save the space of 3 extractors... actually a fair deal

[signal nimbus]

I'm going to guess "reason we didn't put these out sooner".

[frosty owl]

I think it's similar to how sometimes you don't get a full 780 if there's some lag, only worse

[boreal cypress]

so 72MW extra to save the space of 3 extractors... actually a fair deal
@frosty pawn but 6 power shards

[signal nimbus]

I could see it.

[frosty owl]

You need to kinda force the game to acknowledge those 600 ahahah

[frosty pawn]

i have too many shards though, i dont overclock much

i got a couple purple slugs and a few yellow slugs from doggos

[boreal cypress]

once i OC 144 Water Extractors for my 144 Nuclear Power Plants xD

[signal nimbus]

...random question, did you try sending the five in two pipes to a storage container, then piping out from the storage container in 600? I know the extractors seem to oscilate a bit.

[frosty owl]

Oh right, 'cause we can actually OC nuclear power plants now.... 😂

[boreal cypress]

it was before 3.5

[frosty pawn]

you can put a valve right after the fluid buffer to even out the oscillation

[boreal cypress]

it was a pain in the ass to setup 144 pipes

[frosty owl]

...random question, did you try sending the five in two pipes to a storage container, then piping out from the storage container in 600? I know the extractors seem to oscilate a bit.
@signal nimbus Yeeeep... First thing I tried 🙄
I'm pretty sure it works with 2 storages and plugging the extractors 2 in one and 3 in the other then merging but haven't tried yet

And yeah, with the storage it still fluctuated

[signal nimbus]

Storage and valve?

[frosty owl]

Storage and pump. I always pump right after storage

[signal nimbus]

Hmm... well, I'm not doing that setup, else I'd try it myself, but maybe valve instead of pump or before the pump.

[frosty owl]

Shouldn't make a difference, rly, but maybe?

[signal nimbus]

shrug Weirder things have worked?

[frosty owl]

Not really... Dunno, my base's getting unplayable due to too little ram so I'm honestly losing interest in fixing the issue/playing more 😅🙄

[signal nimbus]

XD How big's the base, and how much ram?

[frosty owl]

Best I could get was 600 for about 80/90% of the time

[boreal cypress]

well i had 30s save with my old megabase savegame xD

[frosty owl]

XD How big's the base, and how much ram?
@signal nimbus 8GB. Started having issues over the 1k operating machines, despite having little storage and small conveyors (so as little items lying around as possible)

[signal nimbus]

Got a stopgap for ya, if you're interested I'll DM it to you.

[frosty owl]

Go for it

[devout flax]

Quick math question, 36 coal gens should be 24 water extractors?

[signal nimbus]

36/8=4.5, 4.5*3=13.5 water extractors

[devout flax]

Copy so I've over built my current power plant water feature

[signal nimbus]

Yeah. The other ideal setup is with 75% underclocked extractors, each leading to 2 coal gens.

But that would be 18 extractors.

[frosty pawn]

building generators in multiples of 8 and water extractors in matching multiples of 3 is usually easier to manage

[devout flax]

Had a pure coal node that I slightly overclocked to maximize belt usage at 270/min. Coal split between 18 coal gens

[frosty pawn]

you will never hit 270 usage unless your power grid is about to collapse under load

generators reduce resource consumption to create only enough power to match demand

[jolly holly]

Shouldnt you be able to power 100% even though its unlikely to hit 100%

?

Thats at least how I plan my power

So i know the number im looking at is my actual potential power

[wind spade]

Yeah

[jolly holly]

What is generally better to do

Build a big coal plant to power you up until turbofuel

Or use normal fuel as a middle ground

[frosty owl]

The latter would let you skip some building

[jolly holly]

But the former skips the inefficient use of oil

[frosty owl]

But if you plan well, expanding from fuel to turbo fuel can be seemless, making the whole process quite convenient over trying to run many things on only coal

But the former skips the inefficient use of oil
@jolly holly A bit true, but see above

[jolly holly]

Well i used fuel as a midpoint

But it was a headache to deal with excess fuel

Cuz at that point i didnt have trains and my starting point was half a map away from oil

[wind spade]

Why do you have to deal with excess fuel?

[jolly holly]

So i ran my plastic/rubber production alongside fuel

[frosty owl]

Excess fuel can be dealt with easily if you ||use it for extra rubber/plastic production with alt recipes||

[wind spade]

You should always have plastic+rubber separated from fuel

[frosty owl]

Oh, why so? (See spoiler above for my doubts)

You should always have plastic+rubber separated from fuel
@wind spade

[jolly holly]

Well now that i had the infrastructure and alts for turbofuel it easy to separate them

[wind spade]

If either of them stops, the other one is unaffected

[obsidian sluice]

combining plastic/rubber production with fuel means your plastic/rubber production is limited to your total power consumption

[jolly holly]

By the time i had the alts to even do that i had turbofuel

Im reffering to transitioning

[wind spade]

You can do it without alts as well

Ah ok

[jolly holly]

From coal to turbofuel

Cuz those are staples

Coal so i dont have to go lose 15 min every other 15 min with biomass

And turbofuel cuz its broken

With certain alts

[wind spade]

Nuclear better

[jolly holly]

Yeah

Ofc

But going straight to nuclear is way too difficult

[frosty owl]

combining plastic/rubber production with fuel means your plastic/rubber production is limited to your total power consumption
@obsidian sluice Nah, look:
For my power/rubber I made plastic/rubber with normal recipes. The byprod turned into packaged fuel then got unpackaged. Excess unpackaged fuel went back to the rubber/plastic part and fed it to make even MORE. So the more power I drew, the less plastic/rubber I made but still had a minimum produced anytime

[jolly holly]

Using at least 300->666 turbofuel or whatever to power everything up until that point is kinda necessary

Or at least thats how it looks from my pov

[frosty owl]

But going straight to nuclear is way too difficult
@jolly holly Using some coupons on materials and parts can help 😉
If you've got some to waste, that is...

[jolly holly]

Ahhhh

I will 100% do that in my next playthrough

[wind spade]

@obsidian sluice Nah, look:
For my power/rubber I made plastic/rubber with normal recipes. The byprod turned into packaged fuel then got unpackaged. Excess unpackaged fuel went back to the rubber/plastic part and fed it to make even MORE. So the more power I drew, the less plastic/rubber I made but still had a minimum produced anytime
@frosty owl yeah and that's not good because you have variable output from the factory and you don't know how much you can reliably use

[jolly holly]

Trying to rush nuclear seems interesting

[obsidian sluice]

I made but still had a minimum produced anytime
I'd personally construct two separate factories drawing from the same oil node, but I wouldn't mix the two?

but also that's kinda moot, because I've managed to isolate my fuel production to the NW oil islands

[wind spade]

I'd separate them completely. Less risk of one thing breaking the other

[frosty owl]

@frosty owl yeah and that's not good because you have variable output from the factory and you don't know how much you can reliably use
@wind spade Yes, I know I can RELIABLY use the minimum mentioned (the amount not made from fuel)
Anything else is extra. But being that such a set up makes about 10/15 GW of power it's not easy to draw enough to change your production drastically. And when you get to that point, you'll probably want to just make a separate oil setup anyway ^^
At least it worked great for me. Never run out of rubber/plastic, always had excess

Trying to rush nuclear seems interesting
@jolly holly Mine is still running on some storages after 260+ hours 🤣
It's shameful, but not that risky as fuel rods are easy to store unlike other fuels

[obsidian sluice]

speaking of which, what should I do with these oil nodes? I'm gonna produce my plastic and rubber using the coastal oil nodes, so these 3 nodes are kinda just... doing nothing

[wind spade]

Yeah but the extra is pointless because you can't rely on it so you can't build a production out of it. Much better way would be to just sink the excess or even just ignore the excess since it is in isolated system and doesn't hurt anything if it stalls

[obsidian sluice]

they used to feed a 140 turbofuel fuel gen setup but now it's sitting pretty doing nothing

[frosty owl]

Yeah but the extra is pointless because you can't rely on it so you can't build a production out of it. Much better way would be to just sink the excess or even just ignore the excess since it is in isolated system and doesn't hurt anything if it stalls
@wind spade In my case having extra was convenient as I tended to use less rubber/plastic the further I played (through alts)
I'm not saying this is better then isolated systems, but isolating them forces you to usually use more oil and make more buildings. My whole setup fitted nicely in a couple buildings (one for plastic/rubber, one for fuel) and was still stall-proof

And used the only 2 nodes aviable in the area without having to search for more

[jolly holly]

Is it worth using all the alts for nuclear?

Cuz i see a specific one that makes my life a little more difficult

Like this

[fierce ruin]

Whats a comfortable amount of plastic/rubber per min

[jolly holly]

You more than double use of uranium

By picking the simple one

But do you actually need to be that efficient with nuclear

It gives you ungodly amounts of power anyway

Whats a comfortable amount of plastic/rubber per min
@fierce ruin highly depends on what you want to do with it

Do some research on what you do with it

You probably want to automate some computers

[fierce ruin]

yeah building upto that

[jolly holly]

Decide how many you want

And then be reasonable to start with

[fierce ruin]

ripped down my initial factory now I'm pretty much making a mega factory now

[jolly holly]

Cuz without later infrastructure i would say its pointless to go for too much

[wind spade]

I'd say like 30-60/min would be enough, don't think it's used too much as a building material

[jolly holly]

You need alts to make everything efficient

[frosty owl]

Is it worth using all the alts for nuclear?
@jolly holly If you're short on uranium, yes. But they are a bit more complicated in other regards

I'd say like 30-60/min would be enough, don't think it's used too much as a building material
@wind spade With the new update it is, especially plastic for fluid storage and pipes

[jolly holly]

For me around 150 plastic was what i needed

And like 60 rubber

[frosty owl]

Rubber's needed for the un packagers instead

[fierce ruin]

I'd say like 30-60/min would be enough, don't think it's used too much as a building material
@wind spade got 211.2 rubber per min, 240 plastic per min

probably gonna settle around 1000 of each per minute

already got almost all the oil in the map ready to go

[jolly holly]

Oh wait you are not early on

I thought you were early on into the game

[frosty owl]

Whats a comfortable amount of plastic/rubber per min
@fierce ruin If it is ONLY FOR YOUR NEEDS (building) I think you can settle on 30 rubber, 60 plastic. You can use less plastic if you don't make giant MK2 pipe systems

[jolly holly]

And you just unlocked oil

Well then you need to determine what you want to do first

[wind spade]

I doubt you're gonna use more than 120/min @fierce ruin

[fierce ruin]

I'm honestly just trying to future proof

[jolly holly]

And then decide what would suffice all of it

Make efficient loops then

Thered one on the wiki i think

[fierce ruin]

oh neat

I'll have a look into that

[wind spade]

It's only used for manufacturer, packager and pipes mk2

[fierce ruin]

nice to have a surplus I guess

gonna be using most of me oil for power honestly, not keen on going nuclear

[frosty owl]

I doubt you're gonna use more than 120/min @fierce ruin
@wind spade I doubt he'll need more then 1 industrial storage worth every 10 mins 🤣 (that's how much it takes to fill up with 120/min,right?)

[jolly holly]

This should more than suffice

[fierce ruin]

im guessing circles are mergers and squarers are splitters yeah?

or is it the other way round my brains fried lol

its like 2am here

[jolly holly]

I think you can figure it out urself

Dont bother now

I know that you lile planjing ajead so that when ur into the game you havw ur mind set

But on this one you need a little time to understand the process

[frosty owl]

This should more than suffice
@jolly holly I suggest using the polymer to make fabric, though. It's more convenient to have another setup for plastic/rubber

[jolly holly]

I just sent the efficient loop

He can decide for himself