ok there is a recipe for that
#math-and-meta
stray moon
infused quckwire was the best misspelling in the game
fresh geyser
*uckwire
boreal cypress
quckwire
like teh reverse with quick wire
@fresh geyser yes^^
so good night people :)
stray moon
when does one get explosives? like. whats the earliest
stray moon
that all i need. dont need anything else. like. could i get it right after i get the research milestone
fresh geyser
thats a good question
hoo i got a nice recipe
look cool
lets cut it with rock dust XD
stray moon
isnt that like the only way to automate silica. cause doesnt the default need mycelium. or am i thinking of something else
fresh geyser
yep the 2 i always skip personally
on the right
there is potentiel but i will probably try it late late game
anything who help the frame speed is a god send early game XD
and reinforce plate
velvet fractal
bolted frames with casted screws sounds good to me 🙂
velvet fractal
I have the casted screws and currently drawing the plan of making only screws from a pure iron ore with mk2 miner
240/min
tough ermine
so i got a question, so when laying out belt lines u can only go 25 sections, how many tiles is that? wanna build tall towers and get stuff off the ground
fresh geyser
here we go time to make a iron and steel base 🙂
velvet fractal
the calculator tells me I need 8 smelter and 19,2 constructors (so 20) which is a 8/7 ratio if I'm correct (8 smelter to 7 splitter)
tough ermine
@fresh geyser wanna come see our steel towers and friend and i did
fresh geyser
sure
velvet fractal
or I could to 8 splitter and have a few on only 2 instead of 3 outputs
wind spade
@velvet fractal merge every 2 smelters and split to 5 constructors (or do a manifold)
velvet fractal
like this?
wind spade
up to you really
velvet fractal
I would go with iron plate but don't mind me 🙂
just hate them and this looks like it makes it easier
abstract copper
Is that for reinforced plates?
velvet fractal
yes
abstract copper
Never hurts to have more options for those
fresh geyser
thats a good point
i will take the plate
its will be usefull if i have a base with a mix of oil and iron
im ready i have the steel rod and the steel screw
i love the fact there is a million option
paper snow
whats the splitter chart?
wind spade
?
paper snow
like isnt there an imagine of like how to split thingsa
things like i want80% and 20% other way
wind spade
there are some images on the internet, but most of the people just use manifolds
--S--S--S--S--S--S
| | | | | |
X X X X X X
if one machine needs 80% and other needs 20%, then you can just put a splitter and it will balance itself
paper snow
ah but im asking if i cant find like an image for it
wind spade
because the slower machine will fill and overflow and it'll balance itself
paper snow
k
sharp thicket
how do 5 way splitters work i know how to make one but i cant figure out why it works
wind spade
if you don't want to deal with it, just make a manifold
--S--S--S--S--S
| | | | |
X X X X X
otherwise do something like this
sharp thicket
that is way better than what i did actually
wind spade
usually it's not needed to deal with this anyway. Manifolds work the same way and are easier to set up 🙂
fierce ruin
i use this technique to split into 5
manifold
subtle snow
greeny, thanks for the work you do for this community. i dont talk on here much, but i read some of it.
catching flak for suggesting manifolds after the work you have put in is just so...2020.
anyways, thank you.
fierce ruin
i suggest manifold to any person that talks about load balancing
subtle snow
well, imho, manifold is the natural choice for people learning the [edit:game], and those who are not ready to do the math to get a balanced system correct.
wind spade
I've met with opposite approach
fierce ruin
well, imho, manifold is the natural choice for literally any situation
wind spade
most of the new people are trying to balance stuff only to realise later that it's not needed
fierce ruin
it works for like 99% of situations, its cheap and fast to make, and it is efficient
wind spade
while you can balance, it's usually easier just to put down manifold and it also works with different machine speeds, can be easily expanded and is less prone to errors as opposed to some crazy balancers
fierce ruin
yeah like greeny said its extremely modular, as you can just add more machines and splitters, while a load balancer has to be completely redone
queen rivet
Even in Factorio where balancers tend to be favored, most "lines" are just manifolds using inserters instead of splitters to feed each factory. The balancer is just to split a belt for each of those lines.
wind spade
this ^ people don't realise this at all. I heard so many times "but you balance in Factorio"
(also the reason why balancers are used in Factorio is mostly because of variable production, mines running out, etc.)
queen rivet
Yep. If you do it right in Satisfactory, it's literally build, power it up, and forget.
fresh geyser
i just spaguetti my whole base to do the elevator to unlock tier 7 and 8
red summit
Trying load balance for everything is self-torture
lament light
Let's do it!
load-balanced self-torture? What tier should the belts have? I mean the transport belts, and self-torture in the sense of planning and thinking all through the night
red summit
You still do a lot of planning in manifolds
weak helm
Isn't it weird that Coke is more energy efficient then Fuel? There is nearly no reason to use Fuel Generators without Turbofuel. Only if you need maximum power per oil and don't have HOR alternate yet. Or if water supply is limited. But all oil patches are located near water. Or am I missing something?
fierce ruin
everyone IRL taking sulfur outta their coal, satisfactory folks know you gotta put more IN
celest vault
Not to start another huge discussion, but I found a situation where having a manifold is really not handy (although there's a solution for it).
I was setting up a rubber-recycle system yesterday, and noticed that having the water bottling > diluted fuel > unpackage fuel system was behaving like ass due to the requirement of the empty canisters needing to move back and forth. Due to the whole "it won't reach the end of the line", it was only running at like 30% efficiency at the start.
I built it manifold and had to put in so ridiculously many more more stacks of empty canisters, which; if it were balanced, would've never been necessary.
This concludes that any system that feeds in on itself can be manifold, but for it to be 100% efficient it requires everything to be preloaded.
fierce ruin
well, to reach 100% efficient /quickly/
celest vault
And even then; depending on the belt lengths, it can dwindle down.
No, it will literally never reach 100%.
Unless everything is preloaded, and thoroughly checked that the manifold isn't working in detriment
wind spade
advantage of diluted fuel loop is that the ratios are 1:1:1, so in that case I'd suggest just repeating 3 reifnery loops. Has the advantage that you can easily just put a few canisters in and you don't have to worry about it breaking
weak helm
Direct in-out connection with precise synchronization is always preferable.
celest vault
That's a good solution, greeny, but would require a heckton of space.
And is also technically balancing, because you're doing it 1:1:1
wind spade
would actually require roughly the same amount of space
weak helm
Such templates might be concidered as one unit that might be manifolded
wind spade
if there's something that I like more than manifolds, it's 1:1 inputs
celest vault
Trudat
wind spade
and I won't say it's balacning 🙂 unless you want to call it 1:1 balancer
celest vault
Also yes the same amount of space, but you're forced to place everything next to each other, meaning you need a large open space, as opposed to several individual smaller spaces that would allow for a more dynamic build.
Technically it's a balancer as well as a manifold, lololo
weak helm
1/2/3 : 1/2/3 look nice in all combinations
celest vault
Additionally, I haven't built a 1:1:1 for diluted fuel because in some spaces getting water over is... obnoxious.
wind spade
well I would put the setup together in all cases. It's not like you're gonna change one building out of the 3 to do something else and if you want upgrade it, you want to upgrade it all together
and you also save on the canisters, not needing to put thousands into the system
stark bronze
Is there any downsides to building on the ocean?
celest vault
Sudden death wall if you go too far
fierce ruin
FICSIT Emergency Management Authority won't pay flood damages
eager solar
build high enough so that you can still place water extractors below if needed
celest vault
Possibility to go through the water and die when launching there by hypercannon.
stark bronze
Like how far
Because that seems to be the only hazard and its not even near easy to get there
fierce ruin
pretty far
eager solar
depends on the coast iirc, look at the map to see how far the border is ig
wind spade
for me it doesn't make sense to separate the 3 different buildings of diluted packaged fuel setup. they just work nicely together
fierce ruin
west coast for sure you get an absurd amount of space before the deathwall
wind spade
sure, it may take a bit of planning, but I think you can come up with a nice modular setup that you can repeat and manifold/balance it
celest vault
I'm gonna be entirely honest. I had not yet figured that it was a perfect 1:1:1, and would have likely tried to build it that way if I had noticed it sooner.
wind spade
I noticed it way back, but never actually thought about how to build it until recently, when I thought that it could be a nice 1:1:1 modular setup
I need to play the game finally 😄
so that I can test all my stuff ingame
rather than just suggesting it to people
and hoping it's nice and works
celest vault
Inb4 manifolds were the worst all along. :V
wind spade
lol not that 😄 those were confirmed by a lot of players that they work xD
stark bronze
The only case where manifolds are the worst is when things shouldnt work
unsatisfactory
celest vault
Well, what I pointed out still stands, even if it has a very 1:1:1 elegant solution.
Being forced to preload things while you wouldn't have to is definitely something negative.
weak helm
Diluted Fuel recipe is super weird. I hope it will be deleted in nex update.
wind spade
what? it's the best way to make fuel
celest vault
God I hope not. So many engineers will cry.
celest vault
You know what's weird? The hecking recycling to rubber/plastic.
You're literally turning fuel to either plastic or rubber. It makes so little sense.
stark bronze
Many recipes are weird but not diluted
weak helm
it gives x3 fuel output almost for free
eager solar
@celest vault not worse than the pure recipes alts turning water into a variety of ores
stark bronze
Thats what you get for exploring
wind spade
@celest vault I read through your point and I'm a bit confused on why it wouldn't work, I guess I'd need to test it ingame. Can't really tell if it's a mistake in your setup or some weird logic that broke the manifolds
celest vault
Magically more mass just by adding water.
eager solar
remove impurities and add mass lmao
wind spade
@weak helm the cost is way more power and space used
fierce ruin
I think the idea is we're using the water to get a higher yield from the ore, particularly given refineries are suddenly required instead of smelters. refineries use more power, space, and materials to build. hopefully they get more yield out of ore than a smelter I slapped together out of junk that hadn't even seen an assembler.
weak helm
@wind spade yes, but x3 is crazy. Many "pure" recipes are better to be weakened.
wind spade
@weak helm I think it's nicely balanced now. The alts trade more power, more space and more complex setup for bigger yields
eager solar
@fierce ruin that doesn't work, 'pure' means you're removing impurities from the initial item, menaing you're removing mass. to make more, it would have been more logical to add impurities, which is kinda what the alloy recipes do
weak helm
@wind spade Resin alternate recipe increases output by 1/12, with massive logistics overhead)
fierce ruin
mass-wise there's also non-metal being produced from the ore regardless as slag that I guess we're immediately throwing into a tiny trashcan icon inside the machines
celest vault
@wind spade It would work, if everything is preloaded. If you have like a 200 canisters going back and forth with 8 machines and split everything perfectly, you'd get 25 for each, and they'd constantly be working.
If you manifold it, the first one gets 100, second 50, etc. And the 8th one would only get like one, despite needing 25 a minute. It would never fill up, it would never become fully efficient because there's a limited number. So you're forced to preload them all and then some, while entirely unnecessary with balancers.
eager solar
tbh, better assume that the local water is jsut naturally rich in mineral content and natural oil
like, extremely rich
like, absurdly high density 'water'
wind spade
@celest vault I guess in this case the issue isn't the manifold itself but the limited amount of canisters
celest vault
But that issue isn't there with balancer, so the manifold is the problem, not the limited amount of canisters. You can solve it by adding more canisters. But the problem lies in how the manifold works.
eager solar
if it's for the power plant, I just had the polymer resin turn into plastic then canisters to feed the system, with an overflow sink once it is saturated
celest vault
That's definitely a solution.
But again, one would need so many more canisters with a manifold than with a balancer.
eager solar
that way I don't have to bother with preloading, especially since I don't have a canister line to begin with
celest vault
Trudat
weak helm
x1.5 (1 HOR -> 1 Fuel) would be already a huge boost
celest vault
I started my rubber recycling by throwing in the jetpack fuel I had on me. xD
eager solar
well, you'd need more to fully start the system but after that you're good anyway
weak helm
and yes, Rubber<->Plastic recycling is funny
eager solar
it's just the usual flaw of manifold, since you're saturating the prod lines it takes more time before it is fully ready
celest vault
Funny and ridiculous.
Exactly. Manifolds take time to fully saturate, but if it's a closed system that indefinitely feeds in on itself, it'll never fully saturate.
wind spade
well yeah, but I think about it this way:
- the manifold needs a certain amount of items to work properly (which is indeed bigger than what a balancer would need, but that's the disadvantage)
- you didn't provide the items for it to work properly
- so the issue is not in manifold
I think a good example of similar logic would be:
- you have two watercooled PCs, setup A needs 3 times as much water as setup B
- you put the same amount of water in both A and B, so A doesn't have enough water to function properly
- you blame setup A for not being functional, while the issue lies in the water not provided, A is perfectly functional if all requirements are met
weak helm
@celest vault At least it doesn't skyrocket total output
fierce ruin
you don't fill your car with a coal-sulfur-gasoline slurry and drive it on tires made of plastic mixed with gasoline?
celest vault
And I think about it this way: I add 200 canisters with a balanced system and it works flawlessly. I add 200 canisters with a manifold system and it's not even 30% efficient.
wind spade
as I said, yes, manifold needs more items. But if you give it less items and call it not functional, that's a bit weird
celest vault
Yes, so it takes more work.
eager solar
manifold needs more item to start, but once it started you're good, that's why I used the resin to make canisters as it works, that way I didn't have to add any empty cansisters manually
wind spade
"I'm not gonna give you what you need to function and then blame you for not functioning properly"
celest vault
So I finally found one irrefutable aspect that makes manifolds inferior.
One aspect that isn't fixed by just waiting, mind you.
wind spade
I mean this is kinda specific case, since here we don't manifold items that are produced
but we add fixed amount of items to a setup and the setup reuses that fixed amount of items
eager solar
that's nothing new, in the first place manifolding always assume that you have enough input to saturate the machines
wind spade
but if you don't add the required amount of items, then you can't call it not functional
that's like not plugging a charger and blaming it for not charging properly
celest vault
I'm not sure why you're being so ridiculously insistent on this, what I've said is irrefutable.
I finally found a single aspect, and you're still trying to argue it.
wind spade
because the aspect isn't manifold itself, but changed starting conditions
celest vault
Yes, but that's the exact same stupid argument as saying that balancers take longer to build.
That's also just a one time thing.
Also starting conditions
wind spade
not exactly. What I'm saying is that you deliberately give less items to manifold just to call it not functional
eager solar
you have to be here to make balancers, if you go with a passive injecting you can work on something else and it will balance itself out by itself
celest vault
That's not remotely what I'm getting at?
I'm saying it takes more work because you have to fully stock the system. Period.
eager solar
that just means you're not using the right input
celest vault
And if you don't have said product lying around, that can take a very long time.
It's a closed system, Nova
wind spade
- yes, manifolds need more items to work properly (I've already said that in the big post above)
- no, if you provide less items, it's not the manifold that's broken, it's the input amount of items
celest vault
It takes more work. Why is this so hard to admit?
wind spade
I already said that several times
celest vault
Finally a con to manifolds. Stop trying to win an argument by pulling in points that I never even bothered arguing.
wind spade
but you make it sound like it's the manifold's fault if you don't provide enough items for it
celest vault
It's literally the flaw of the manifold.
You don't give it enough items, it don't work right.
wind spade
if you don't build enough belts, balancer doesn't work right
if you don't build machines, you don't produce stuff
celest vault
And if you don't connect manifolds properly they also don't work, why are you being like this?
It literally requires a fully saturated belt; which can become an exponentially larger task depending on the size, to get a self-feeding system with a manifold to work. This work would not remotely be necessary with a balancer. Period. Irrefutable. I found a situation where you shouldn't use a manifold because it'll take much longer to set up.
Why can't you accept this?
You want math and meta. This is the math and meta.
eager solar
how is that a discovery tho? that's the one flaw that is always mentionned that manifolds take longer to start up
celest vault
They're not the same flaws.
wind spade
it's basically that you said "if you don't build the system properly, it doesn't work"
celest vault
It's about the more work
Why are you still arguing something I didn't?
One is simply something that gets fixed with time. Se it and forget it. With a self feeding system it will not ever fix itself, you need to fix it.
See, like, a discussion like this, where I have an an irrefutable situation and you're still trying to find any and every aspect to point out that it's not that bad. How in the world can anyone take you seriously if you can't even cede a point like this? It means you never would, it means any discussion with you is futile.
weak helm
Well, not exponentially... Linearly. 1 stack for each reciever, plus some amount to saturate belt itself
celest vault
The more machines, the longer the belt, the more it'll increase. Literal definition of exponential.
Even if it's not by much. x)
weak helm
in classic manifold belt length is proportional to machines amount
celest vault
It goes back and forth. Length would increase more than the machine requirements.
Although I suppose that depends on the output.
You'd be right if it's just the input you consider.
wind spade
I basically agree with what you're saying (several times said this, yes, you need more items for that manifold to work). You just presented it as a different issue, what I got out of your messages is "manifold is broken in this setup" and you said it as if it was the manifold's fault, while it's your fault for not providing enough items for it.
celest vault
Could you check my literal first message please, greeny?
I literally said "this doesn't properly work, but it has a solution"
It is the manifold's fault. Because it only happens with a manifold.
wind spade
yeah, which isn't correct. It doesn't work, because you didn't set it up properly
celest vault
Of course you didn't set it up properly.
That's the entire point, why do you keep bringin that up?
If something doesn't work properly, you did it wrong. Fucking duh.
wind spade
having enough items is one of the manifold's requirements to work properly.
celest vault
A requirement not remotely as needy as with a balancer.
wind spade
and I beleive this conversation is continuation of our previous one where I asked you to find a setup where manifold doesn't work even if you build it properly
celest vault
And while in a normal situation it would only cost time, in this situation the entire build would break if you wouldn't put in that extra effort.
So IT TAKES MORE WORK. Done.
Manifold isn't the best solution in every situation. Irrefutable. Done. Discussion over.
wind spade
for like 100th time. I agree with this point. I don't agree with the point "manifold is broken in this situation", because the situation is "I didn't build manifold properly"
celest vault
If you agree with my point, why are you continuously bringing up other bullshit to get your right in a discussion that no one's having?
red summit
Stubborn
stark bronze
break it up guys theres an argument that needs to be won in the main channel
celest vault
When did I ever say it's broken, even?
wind spade
I literally said "this doesn't properly work, but it has a solution"
@celest vault
celest vault
Paraphrasing after the fact.
Doesn't work properly != broken
Doesn't work properly can mean it still partially works.
Next?
wind spade
ffs stop with this attitude
I'm trying to reason with you normally
you're always attacking me
eager solar
bloo, weren't you the guy pissed at ppl using semantics?
celest vault
And?
wind spade
I said "broken" and I mean "doesn't work at 100% of it's possible capacity"
eager solar
you're doing the same thing you were pissed at
celest vault
I've tried reasoning with you, you disrespect my argument and the discussion by continuously throwing in a red herring.
wind spade
sorry for not spelling that everytime
celest vault
Broken means not working at all, lol
How am I doing the same thing, though? I'm literally defining words I've used.
I'm not discussing what a word can mean. And if there's a misunderstand because of the words, I'll definitely consider that.
sand garnet
calm down please
celest vault
The first line of me opening this can of worms:
Not to start another huge discussion, but I found a situation where having a manifold is really not handy (although there's a solution for it).
Note how I say "not handy" instead of "broken".
wind spade
my entire point is that your problem is not caused by manifold directly. It's caused by you not setting up the manifold properly which indeed takes more work than setting up a balancer in this case, but that I agree with. But you came out saying "it's the manifolds fault and it's not working properly", which simply isn't true, because it's not working properly due to wrong setup. Correctly set up manifold would work properly even in this case.
celest vault
But if it takes more work setting up, where does that responsibility lie if not with the manifold? Sure, you have to set it up properly, that's an aspect of the manifold. You can't just say it's not. That makes literally no sense whatsoever.
sand garnet
isn't 'setting it up wrong' also something that will affect a balancer equally?
celest vault
You make 2 exactly similar setups. One with manifold, one with balancer. You throw in the amount you think you require, balancer works, manifold doesn't. Sure, you didn't put in enough, so you didn't properly set up the manifold, but it's working with the balancer, so where does the fault lie?
Did you read the actual problem we're discussing?
sand garnet
not entirely no
wind spade
exactly Tom. That's my entire point. If you set up something wrong, you can't blame it for not being functional
eager solar
not giving enough inputs to a manifold would be like making a balancing mistake with the balancer, both need to be set up properly. Balancer set up requires more math while manifold setup require more mats
wind spade
"I didn't put gas in my car and it isn't starting, what a crap car"
celest vault
"I have to pay 200$ for a full tank" what a shit car.
"I only have to pay 20$ for a full tank" what a great car.
I can make stupid non-fitting analogies as well. Get out.
wind spade
your analogy is true as well, but that I already agreed with several times
yes, you need more mats for manifold in this case
celest vault
"Manifolds can be easier to mess up when creating it.", YES BUT BUILDING A MANIFOLD MEANS YOU BUILD IT RIGHT, SO THAT DOESN'T MATTER
wind spade
but that doesn't change the fact, that you not providing the mats is your fault, not the manifold's
celest vault
And yet the problem doesn't happen when I do the exact same thing with a balancer.
abstract copper
Quit trolling
sand garnet
i dont think there's trolling going on
celest vault
Not sure who you think is trolling. I'm entirely serious.
sand garnet
but there's a clear disagreement lol
wind spade
obviously. If you put diesel into car that doesn't run on diesel, it won't start, but if you put it into diesel car, it will... You can't use the same approach for two different methods
celest vault
greeny just wants to have some kind of win in the argument in return for finally being told that the manifold isn't 100% the best system all the time.
wind spade
I literally never said that manifold is 100% better
celest vault
Another lame non-fitting analogy.
wind spade
idk I think it fits pretty well, but feel free to tell me what's wrong with it
sand garnet
not supplying enough materials means both slow down equally though, dont they ?
celest vault
They both have the same input, one just needs more.
copper fiber
Basically you 2 are both right, you are actually meaning the same thing but just disagree about who's fault it is, the setup or the manifold itself. The manifold is part of the setup so if either isn't good or the material flow is bad, its the setup fault but also a flaw of the manifold. The effect of the bad design using manifold is worse than that of a balancer, imho
celest vault
Hmmm, would it, Tom? If you'd only supply 100 for a system that requires 200, balancer would work half the time. ...and I'm not good enough at math to guesstimate what would happen to a manifold, lol
wind spade
@sand garnet his point in this case is manifolding canisters in diluted packaged fuel loop, where you need to provide fixed amount of canisters to the system. His point is that you don't need as many canisters for balancer system to work properly as opposed to manifold's.
abstract copper
not supplying enough materials means both slow down equally though, dont they ?
@sand garnet one gets starved more than the other
sand garnet
i dont understand how that works greeny
items in are items in. regardless of the type of input
celest vault
It's a shortcoming of the manifold that the balancer system doesn't have. Ergo why the system of the manifold is at fault in my opinon @copper fiber
But yes, practically everything you said is true.
Lemme scroll back up and get my example, Tom
wind spade
@sand garnet if you don't provide enough canisters for the diluted packaged fuel loop, it doesn't fill
abstract copper
Not being able to fly is a shortcoming of cars.
wind spade
so the manifold is less efficient
sand garnet
right
celest vault
fierce ruin
so put enough jugs in
celest vault
Exactly! That's the solution to it.
sand garnet
so I just read the example
fierce ruin
mate I got machines just, all they do is make jugs
celest vault
It's something I ran across because I never realized I could've made the packaged water > diluted fuel > unpackaging in a single situation.
sand garnet
the 100 in the first machine only works until it fills up and then slowly fills up the next
celest vault
There's only a limited amount, and the 100 would get used just as quick as it would get refilled.
sand garnet
my assumption is that with the stuff slowing down, you'd still, over X amount of time, get the same amount of production
celest vault
Definite nope
wind spade
@sand garnet in this case there's just limited amount of canisters and therefore it won't work properly
imagine extreme case, having just 1 canister
celest vault
Well I mean, at that point they'd be equally fuctional, lol
sand garnet
my brain hurts :p
celest vault
Guys, we figured it out. You just make sure to give your system only a single can. That way there's no difference.
sand garnet
just dont use fuel gens at all
celest vault
This is also used for rubber/plastic recycling
wind spade
basically manifold needs [number of buildings] * 100 extra canisters to fill the buildings
this is slightly different than a normal manifold, where number of items is infinite
sand garnet
to fill, but not produce
celest vault
And enough to saturate the belt. If the belt itself holds more than a 100, it might still not get to the back building consistently.
sand garnet
if a machine needs 30, anything over that is excess over time though, isnt it ?
wind spade
And enough to saturate the belt. If the belt itself holds more than a 100, it might still not get to the back building.
@celest vault needs [buildings] * 100 extra
celest vault
Engrish?
wind spade
@sand garnet the point here is that there's fixed amount of canisters
there will never be more than X canisters
because there's nothing that produces them
sand garnet
right but as long as that amount is more than the production requirements of a single machine, it means the other machines will eventually kick in
celest vault
No, because it'll get back the same amount it produces.
sand garnet
so given enough time, doesnt that mean there will be a tie between the production of balancers and manifolds?
celest vault
Nope
wind spade
you're confusing amount with amount/min
sand garnet
i guess so 😛
celest vault
Tom's like: "I never made such inefficient shit in my life anyway, so I don't need to think about this."
wind spade
sure, if there's enougn amount/min, manifold would eventually work the same as the balancer
but there's not enough amount of items to fill the machines so that the manifold works
eager solar
just turn the polymer resin byproducts into empty canisters and be done with this
sand garnet
you overestimate my factory malibloo 😛
celest vault
Very possible, Nova. Then you'd require an overflow and a sink, which would be inefficient as well. ;3
wind spade
@eager solar we already agreed on best solution - make it 1:1:1, that way you only need like 10 canisters per setup
celest vault
Yas, I'm doing that next time, great tip, greeny.
fierce ruin
and then shove 100+ canister in anyway
celest vault
xD
eager solar
overflow is kinda unavoidable with byproducts since you need to get rid of them anyway
one way or another
celest vault
I simply turned mine into more rubber.
eager solar
once my line is saturated with canisters, I will jsut use it to do somehting else
wind spade
well the point here is that you don't need to add/remove canisters 🙂 they are recycled all the time
sand garnet
to be fair, this stuff is why I still follow the principle of 'if my belts are moving, something has gone horribly wrong'
if everything is super slow on belts moving around then I know the machines are getting everything they need and more
celest vault
Closed system, super efficient. Also those are some really sturdy canisters to be reused that often.
wind spade
you're just changing liquids in them xD
celest vault
Actually Tom, there's a seriously rare edge case in this situation where you fill everything up so tightly that some machines won't be able to output anymore because the belt they're trying to ouput on is full. It'll move slowly, but it definitely won't be working efficiently.
I usually keep the idea in mind that if my belt is fully saturated and moving without stuttering, it's working perfectly efficient.
weak helm
@celest vault I'm also thinking about it. Is it possuble to saturate cycle so much that it stucks?
celest vault
Very very possible.
And also something that would happen sooner if you manifold the output. But, still a very very edge case.
Like you have to try stupid hard to make that happen, or just have a merger somewhere that indefinitely adds more canisters.
river night
thats why I like a storage in the empty canister cycle, easy to fill the belt and buffer for incidents
lean bobcat
i hope this is correct place to ask but im completely failing in math rn, trying to figure out how im gonna split 2 conveyer belts where one moves 240 items and the other 120 items into 2 different conveyer belts that would both move 180 items using mk 3 belts, splitters and mergers
barren elm
Assuming your outputs can only accept 180 per sec max, split the 240 into your 180 output, then merge your 120 belt into the other output
There's no need to balance it if your 180 belt lines are filled with items, the game will balance it for you
lean bobcat
so what im actually tryna achieve is getting a pure and normal caterium vein into 10 slightly underclocked smelters that each take 36 ore per minute, if theres easier way to do this feel free to tell me lmao
river night
if you absolutely must balance it, split the 240 in two for 2x 120, split one of those 120 in two again for 2x 60, and merge one of the 60 each onto one of the 120s each, for 2x 180
barren elm
So you have 2 smelter arrays
Each smelter array only accepts 180 per minute due to underclocking
Take your 240 line and split it into your first smelter array (yes that's only 120, but wait)
Then merge your 120 line into the other side of the splitter (yes that makes 240)
Now that probably sounds wrong, but each smelter array can only accept 180 items, right?
So what will happen in practice is that the second smelter array will get backed up with items, and force the items into the first array, so you've got 180 items going to each line
Reason why this is a good idea over other methods is it's scaleable, this method works whether you've got 2 lines of smelters and 2 inputs, or 30 lines of smelters and 30 inputs
eager solar
yeah, basically you either do a manifold injected or a belt balancer, both are viable and worth learning
lean bobcat
hmm yeah i get the general idea, imma try to actually implement it, thanks for the help 😄
eager solar
@lean bobcat the wiki has some pic for both methods
barren elm
It's basically a manifold layout but you're merging additional inputs into it
river night
thats how half my manifolds work due to belt limits
lean bobcat
yeah, i feel like im over complicating the shit out of a simple 30 AI limiters a minute factory but oh well, its my first somewhat large scale one lmao
wind spade
or just make two manifolds
barren elm
Yeah once you wrap your head around manifolds it simplifies factory layouts substantially
The above I just wrote is basically a way of getting around slow belt speeds but still using manifolds
eager solar
yeah, manifold injected is just manifold but with a bypass for belt limit while belt balancer is another type of load balancing
barren elm
I am curious though when you were faced with this problem, why didn't you just make 3 rows of smelters, and have the first input feed the first 2 rows, and the last feed the final row?
inner pond
You can always stick a smart sorter as well and pop the extra into a sink
lean bobcat
googled some of these concepts you guys threw and a 2-2 belt balancer seems to be exactly what im looking for, its so simple yet i never even tought something like that was possible but the math checks out lol
eager solar
it's simple at this point but manifolds tend to be easier to setup and way more braindead and failproof
wind spade
yeah, usually when you're doing balancers, you can have much easier setup with manifold
inner pond
I actually might switch most of my things to the folds instead of a balancer.
lean bobcat
I did find the screenshots of manifolds in wiki but ngl, i really dont get how they are supposed to function
these are what you ment right?
eager solar
manifold just brute force the system by saturating every buildings
barren elm
It's due to a few factors about how satisfactory works
inner pond
I have a sorter prior to the folds that will lead to sink if it overflows
barren elm
Essentially, full belts and calculated inputs balance everything for you
And because resources are both infinite and reliable, there's just no downside
Like say I have a splitter fed with 780 iron, and a manifold of 3 smelters, each smelter is still going to take 30 iron per minute by virtue of them only accepting 30 iron per minute
To scale that all the way up , let's say I have 26 smelters now, a manifold is still going to balance every output to 30, because as stated each smelter will not accept more
inner pond
yes and no
lean bobcat
ohh im finally starting to understand how they function, in that case i have made a manifold for quartz refinery earlier on accidentally lmao, and you dont need any overflow for it to work right? itll just fill itself up over some amount of minutes
eager solar
yup
sincd the first building can't handle the full load of the belt, the excess will go elesewhere (so rest of the line) and reach the 2nd building. rinse and repeat
barren elm
Once you get your head around the idea, they're totally brainless too
inner pond
balancers are a lil more difficult
lean bobcat
feels like im back in the god damn math class to make some pixels move slightly more efficiently, and im loving every second of it lmao
eager solar
and the injected version is a workaround when belt capacity is not enough. you basically put a merger in the middle and have another input line added. Since the merger only have one output the added input will naturally flow the way you want to
inner pond
Hmm the fastest you can move items/min from a container would be 1560 it seems
fierce ruin
hi! im new to this game but, as a math teacher it seems that the most logical point would to do this overflow method, am i wrong? what are your guys imputs? 😄
inner pond
I think their things dont contain an overflow method, pretty much just back up the flow of things xD
eager solar
careful, overflow is not a method so to speak but a term. the belting methods are globally called manifold and load balancer
overflow is when the input is too high for the output, so you have an excess you can use/have to deal with
fierce ruin
I was about to write that yeah, i meant a load balancing method combined with overflow for space.
inner pond
use a smart sorter if youd like the overflow to go into a sink at the beginning
eager solar
the best method most of the time is manifold: it takes more time to fully start but it's almsot brain dead to set up and you won't have math troubles
fierce ruin
What is manifold?
eager solar
laod balancer is quicker to start-up and arguably more aesthetically nice but more prone to mistakes and takes more space than a manifold
fierce ruin
in this sense, i mean
stray moon
is it good that ive gotten 24 hard drives within 12 hours of a save?
eager solar
manifold is what we explained above, basically you make the whole input go to a single line with a split at each building
fierce ruin
ah i see, sorry
eager solar
since every building can only take so much of the input/min, all buildings will be filled eventually
load balancer is when you use an array of splitters/mergers to make it so that each building only get exactly as much as it needs/min
fierce ruin
Yes but you could, logically, have a pure node with mk2 mine fill over 100 smelters
it would just take a while.
eager solar
you would have to take the belt limit into account but that's the idea
fresh geyser
i need to do load balancer shit hit the fan with my copper XD
eager solar
why do you need to do that? manifold is less likely to fail you than a balancer
stray moon
is 24 hard drives in 12 hours of a world being made. good?
eager solar
the wiki has the concepts
fresh geyser
its the reverse i dont produced enough
eager solar
lean bobcat
@stray moon i think this is wrong channel for that? might be wrong idk but i would say 24 within 12hours is pretty average if you already know what you are doing / use map to see where hard drives are
eager solar
then the problem is prolly that you don't have enough buildings and/or enough inputs to start with
stray moon
i mean. it might be meta to get harddrives at the start of a world
fresh geyser
what meta is knowing you will get reck by monster if you go to more far away one
eager solar
@stray moon getting a bunch of hd earlier is nice but you won't be able to get almost all of them at the start because you need specific parts to open the crash site. Also, don't plan for a final factory right from the start it will 99% fail anyway
better be ready to modify/tear down/rebuild/build elsewhere at some point
stray moon
i know.
inner pond
Yeah im rebuilding now xD
stray moon
i dont normally start building a final factory till i get automated power.
eager solar
even then, you won't really be able to make your final facory because belts or miner ,though you could anticipate ig
also, keep in mind that a lot of alts are tier-locked
stray moon
yeah i figured.
eager solar
like you won't get turbofuel alt if you're not oil-tier already
lean bobcat
tough the extra inventory space alt isnt tier locked asfar as i know so rushing ton of hard drives in early tiers would be easy way to get those 5 inventory spaces
wind spade
They are not. They are locked by schematics
eager solar
yeah my bad, milestones locked rather than tier
inner pond
trains are better currently for far distances item moving right?
lean bobcat
atleast fps wise definately
fresh geyser
stray moon
which do i get?
lean bobcat
pure caterium id say
wind spade
@fresh geyser those are schematics
inner pond
I think just not for fps wise as well
fresh geyser
tier 1 on the right
stray moon
so pure caterium?
eager solar
@stray moon I'd say 2 is the best overall for end-game, heard that one can be nice early game depending on your area
fresh geyser
srry i was rude
lean bobcat
yeah i quess so, using refinery to get concrete would be just kinda insane while ive never used alloy ingots
eager solar
dw, I just assume that t1 is the starting tier so not exactly locked
wind spade
Wiki has this data from me. I've told them they are not tier resteicted. I've got the data out of the game files. I know what I'm talking about @fresh geyser
stray moon
i still cant believe that it takes 14 hours just to do all the hard drives in one world
eager solar
just plop down a mam whenever you find one
start the research then deconstruct and go for the next hd
stray moon
did not think of that XD
lean bobcat
ngl, i like stacking up alot of hard drives before starting to build large structures so i can just kinda do em at same time, you can just plop down a M.A.M, enter a hard drive, destroy the M.A.M
oh novadil literally just said what i was about to say lmao
eager solar
gottem
for a while I actually tought about that 'trick' but just forgot to do it
felt kind of dumb lmao
eager solar
yes imo
lean bobcat
yep easily, biocoals a joke and once again i dont see the use for alloy ingots while pures are the most efficient way to turn ore into ingots in lategame
glacial hemlock
@stray moon all 85 hard drives can very easily be collected well-within 10 hours
I would say, 5 mins per hard drive
eager solar
not that you need them all atm, you can only unlock 72 of them
glacial hemlock
yes, to research all of them you need at least 12 hours, but you can do it at the same time when you are collecting them
lean bobcat
and to get hard drives at that fast speed you definately need jetpack imo, which is tier 6 locked, while tier 4 is when i think most people start wanting lots of alternatives
glacial hemlock
at T4 you may aim for the solid steel and EIP and you are good to go. But I don't bother with alts before getting jetpack
lean bobcat
makes sense tbh, tough its still bit of a rng game unless you load a earlier save whenever you dont get what you want (if that works? im not sure)
glacial hemlock
well, the effect of hard drive cascades with the complexity of the recipe (they work together with each other), but at T4 most items are still too simple for the hard drives to make noticeable effects, and you probably going to redo everything when you got Mk5 belts and mk3 miners too!
lean bobcat
Stitched iron plate, casted screw, solid steel, copper rotor, iron wire are probably what you want in early game
glacial hemlock
stitched + iron wire might be very resource efficient, but imo not very friendly at early game. Maybe screws can do it a bit better (they waste iron ores though)
solid steel, yeah, is a must, copper rotor is quite good, if you have steady copper income...definitely a good late game recipe!
velvet fractal
what is considered late game btw? After Tier 7+8? Or after Nuclear Power?
glacial hemlock
T7 and beyond is late game
end game is when you unlocked all techs and have a steady income of turbo motors
velvet fractal
ok, thanks 🙂
glacial hemlock
mid game starts when you have the coal generators running😆
velvet fractal
just launched the pod for bauxite 🙂
so I'm in late mid game 😄
or early late game
fresh geyser
i just lauch the last elevator right now 🙂
fresh geyser
i will probably tear my whole abse down
glacial hemlock
I have seen multiplayer able to exploit the elevator bug by both players launching at the same time to unlock T5 at 35mins, but I am curious if 3 players can do the same thing for T7 unlock
fresh geyser
probably if they frame perfect it they have one shot tho they could try in creative
velvet fractal
holy crap - the snapping of walkway ramps is horrible
stray moon
screws?
stray moon
ah ok
slender sparrow
Depends how much steel you got
velvet fractal
would say so
unborn stirrup
snow whale
can someone check me to see if this works? I have Three mark 2 miners on coal, that i will be overclocking to 250% to get max power for mid game. at 300 coal/min, i think i should be able to get 20 coal power plants each for 60 total. I finally figured out how to split the coal from each into 20 evenly through feedback loops. now im struggling with what i need to do for the water
normal nodes btw
glacial hemlock
manifold
stray moon
what recipe?
glacial hemlock
@stray moon there is a alternate recipe analysis in wiki.
it will tell you all 70 recipes which are good and which are bad
stray moon
but it says wet concrete is useful
fierce ruin
wet concrete is useful right?
stray moon
you sure
polar acorn
Wet concrete is very useful at endgame, I'd say.
stray moon
oki
wind spade
I should just copy this and send to everybody who asks which alternate recipe should they pick:
it all depends on what you want to produce, what you're currently producing and what recipes and nodes you have. Some recipes are better, some are worse, but almost all of them can be used in your factory in some way.
mystic hollow
@wind spade is there a way to calculate how many coal generators and water pumps i'd need for a number of coal nodes on the update 3 site?
wind spade
not yet. but 3 extractors + 8 gens + 120 coal
boreal cypress
and every alternate have a cost... more power, more expensive items, slower production rate
mystic hollow
ty!
wind spade
or you can have a look at coal generator in codex https://www.satisfactorytools.com/codex/buildings/coal-generator
warm wren
I hear the guy that makes those tools can't be trusted 
Right greeny?
muted crypt
that's the spirit
fresh geyser
what happen when you overclock a geothermal XD
wind spade
you can't
fresh geyser
ho ok
wind spade
also doesn't make sense from logical point of view
boreal cypress
Geothermals dont have a HUD right?
fresh geyser
i was checking on the website thats why 😛
wind spade
good catch. I'll fix that later
west gale
Worked on this for a while. I worked my alumina solution production into the module. I intend to re-configure this whole thing when I get some better alternate recipes, but for now this works nicely
https://i.imgur.com/llkbuNW.jpg
fresh geyser
how did you get the small background?
west gale
small background?
west gale
I took a screenshot from satisfactory-calculator and filled in colors using Paint 3D
fresh geyser
gotcha
fresh geyser
im building my megabase i need all the help i can XD
boreal cypress
@west gale jeah looks nice ^^ but you should get the coal scrap :) so you dont need oil and have better solution to scrap ratio ^^ (its the only worth alternate alu recipe)
fresh geyser
you start in the upper left?
boreal cypress
thats alot of stuff you dont have :D
west gale
it's true
boreal cypress
ask in #old-questions-and-help when you reasearch a HDD and you dont know what you should choose ^^
west gale
I've got a pretty good sense for it. I've finished my MAM research and all of the tier objectives
just need to get more alt recipes so I can really get down to business on the factory
bitter tapir
the upper left is pritty good
snow whale
i asked this before but didnt get an answer, i need to develop an evenly split water system for 3 stacks of 20 coal generators each right next to eachother, or 60 total if that helps
anyone got tips
wind spade
water will self-balance similar to how coal does it
just connect the gens and it will work
mind the pipe limits tho
wind spade
oh 😄
what about other resources? or only iron?
if only iron, this is the way to go 🙂
loud sequoia
wait, water? huh?
loud sequoia
how you get that?
wind spade
you get alternate recipes by collecting hard drives from crashed drop pods around the map
each hard drive gives you 3 recipes at random and you pick one
if you don't want to deal with alternate recipes now, this is with just normal recipes:
snow whale
thank you! i hope my water ends up working out. the calcs for the coal inputs were so complex
wind spade
there's "items, input" tab, where you can put your limits
and when you change "items / min" to "maximize" in the production tab, it uses all the available resources
if you click the last link, you can see exactly how I made the stuff
and you can play around with it and change numbers and stuff 🙂
loud sequoia
Ah, thank you! this is really useful!
what is this? 🤔
why is there a 40.00/min hidden there?
wind spade
it tries to organize the boxes nicely, but sometimes it fails a bit
you can drag the screw box a bit up to see what's under it
loud sequoia
OH
loud sequoia
@wind spade is there a way to check power usage? :)
wind spade
not yet. It's one of the future features. There's a poll in the tool's discord, where I listed a lot of features and they are voted for. I beleive power is next on the list (though I don't have time for the tools right now)
boreal cypress
@loud sequoia you can calculate it manually :D
wind spade
well you can, but there's definitely plan for that 😛
boreal cypress
how could I split iron rods up 40/50? 🤔
@loud sequoia manifold ^^
loud sequoia
manifold?
wind spade
you have two options:
- balancer (harder, but exact)
- manifold (easier, but has slower startup time)
manifold is this:
--S--S--S--S--S--S
| | | | | |
X X X X X X
oh so basically just wait until everything fills up right
wind spade
yeah
loud sequoia
ah
wind spade
or you can just prefill the machines and they start working immediatelly
or let it fill while you build the rest of the factory
boreal cypress
its up to you what you want, i prefer manifold because its easy
loud sequoia
miner mk1 at 200% costs double the power right?
wind spade
no
wind spade
it costs roughly 3 times as much power
loud sequoia
would it cost less to use 2 miners at 150%?
right now I have 1 at 200% and 1 at 100%
wind spade
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/codex/buildings/miner-mk-1 you can check it here, move the slider and see the power go up 🙂
boreal cypress
power go vroooom
indigo vigil
Power usage is not linear. Having more machines at lower speeds is always more efficient than fewer machines at higher speeds.
loud sequoia
yeah, I have 6 impure nodes ;w;
boreal cypress
grassfield?
loud sequoia
yea
boreal cypress
jeah they are mostly this bad... a lot of nodes but bad
loud sequoia
15 + 5 + 44 + 12 + 30 = 106 MW ._.
boreal cypress
jep
loud sequoia
I dont have coal power yet
boreal cypress
4 biomass burner or 2 coal gens, 1 fuel gen or 1 NPP
loud sequoia
I'll have to do that
wind spade
if you don't have coal, sometimes it's good to underclock machines to 50% and build twice as many or even 33% and 3 times as much
you save a lot of power but still produce the same amount of resources
tall isle
Also not a bad idea to shoot ahead and rush the coal power
wind spade
I assume they're trying to automate stuff for coal power 🙂
tall isle
That way you can stop hand feeding 😅
wind spade
you'll also need rotors for coal gens btw 😛
queen rivet
And extractors too?
wind spade
and for extractors
boreal cypress
and and and xD
queen rivet
heh
hot ginkgo
queen rivet
I'd say work out a good 3 extractor/8 coal gen "blueprint" for yourself, and then you can just keep tiling it as you grow.
snow whale
for coal generators and water pipes, when splitting and such does it need to be evenly distributed and organized the way conveyors do or will they balance out more
snow whale
whats that
wind spade
--S--S--S--S--S--S
| | | | | |
X X X X X X
im sorry i dont understand. is the x the generator and s the pipe
i thought pipes could only pump 300 water
wind spade
X = generator, S = splitter
that's for coal
for water, you can just use something like this:
G G G G
E-+--+--+--+
E-+
E-+--+--+--+
G G G G
E = extractor, G = generator, + = pipe junction
snow whale
even though im trying to go from 24 extractors to 60 coal generators?
wind spade
make groups of 8
snow whale
damn... i made groups of 20
wind spade
those need 7.5 extractors each
so it's a bit weird
it's better to make groups of 8 or multiplies of 8
snow whale
yeah i was gonna use 8 generators to just make sure there was slight overflow
damn. i really dont want to start over. ok, thanks
wind spade
you don't need any overflow 🙂
well then you need to come up with a design that puts 7.5 extractors for each 20 gens 🙂
snow whale
would 8 be bad?
wind spade
you'd just have some extra water
snow whale
like aside from the slight power drain
wind spade
that's fine
snow whale
yeah i dont mind that if it works out. i spent so much time making the groups of 20 workout
queen rivet
Yeah, it never hurts to have any one thing overflow a bit.
snow whale
yea i dont have enough coal to do 64 generators
short perch
for water/pipes - because this game doesn't use actual fluid dynamics, wouldn't a mesh layout be better for balancing/throughput then a single pipe loop?
well, when it's feasible
wind spade
depends on the actual algorithm used 😉
glacial hemlock
groups of 20 is nothing wrong, if you can regroup each of the 40 into 5 groups of 8
vital flower
how many smelters to constructors for iron plates?
indigo tiger
1:1 with no alternates and if using smelters instead of refineries
vital flower
so which part of the ratio do I need to consentrate on? like it says 1 ingot@30/min smelting and then 3ingot@30/min makes a plate. in my head that means 3 smelters to 1 constructor. I dont understand lol
indigo tiger
1 smelter requires 30 in, it produces 30,
and 30 ingots are need for plate to produce 20 out
vital flower
I think i get it now actually...maybe
indigo tiger
vital flower
oooooohhhhh that helped
indigo tiger
sometimes you need to focus on all the values, especially with more complex products, but iron with smelters is 1:1 so its very simple and directly scalable
vital flower
see I thought iron plate in my way of thinking was way too complicated for a beginner product
I'm trying to think more into the ratios vs just throwing a ton of stuff at a ton of machines willy nilly
indigo tiger
nah super simple and friendly with early stages of iron, copper and limestone, just break things down
if a machine needs x input to fulfill its max output, work on that, then follow the line down for the next.
or have a goal in mind, say I want to make 100 iron plates per minute, then work backwards on how much you need
for your starter materials the ratios are pretty simple, when you break it down piece by piece, its east to understand all your needs
vital flower
I appreciate the help! I'll keep this in mind.
sturdy glacier
is it ok to build 2 constructors if it says 1.33x here, or should i specifically overclock single constructor to 133%?
eh, i think i misread the chart 🤠
indigo tiger
Both works, or you can scale up
I set it that way for early start, so if you only have mk1 belts, either overclocking or dealing with downclocking if you have that researched will fulfill that
hidden wigeon
how many pure coal node to feed 8 generators?
indigo tiger
1
muted crypt
(assuming mk1 miner on pure node)
hidden wigeon
so mk2 power 16
muted crypt
yes
indigo tiger
also assuming no overclocking
hidden wigeon
I could have 16 coals burners 😦
muted crypt
but overclocking generators is never worth it, so
hidden wigeon
I have the tiniest little pond
muted crypt
@hidden wigeon are you in the grass fields?
indigo tiger
I meant the miners haha
muted crypt
oh, yes
indigo tiger
F
hidden wigeon
I know its all the same map but different start zones
muted crypt
there's only one map, just four starting zones
can you send a screenshot of just what you see rn
indigo tiger
I assume hes in the forest area
hidden wigeon
muted crypt
ahhh I know where you are
muted crypt
yep, and a limestone behind you
hidden wigeon
ah, yes
muted crypt
it's almost like I know my way through the northern forest, kek
muted crypt
recommendation:
lead the coal north down to the river
plenty of space to build foundations and no excess upward piping
indigo tiger
ive really not explored the northern forest much ,so fairplay on your map knowledge there
muted crypt
@hidden wigeon you know how when you're by the coal node there's a small plateau right next to it
and a little incline leading down a hillside
muted crypt
should be a small one going straight up with a mercer sphere or somersloop on top, forget which
muted crypt
hill this way, follow that power line
hidden wigeon
wow, I thought all that land below the cliff was sand
hidden wigeon
you don't want to see the topsy turns my coal does through my base. This would have been so much simpler
thanks!!
muted crypt
Mhm! Bring the coal down that hill and set up foundations over the river
There's more nodes across that river, btw 😉
normal limestone, normal copper, pure iron, 4x normal coal
good place for processing steel
fierce ruin
yeah and like
a little beyond that, 1 more limestone, 3x normal iron, 4x pure iron and 7x pure limestone
oh and an extra 2x normal coppars
boreal ember
Hey, can someone help me with some math in my area?
wind spade
@boreal ember what is your problem?
boreal ember
@wind spade DM me
boreal ember
its not a question
well it is, i just want to know how to work math out properly and how to know how many smelters and whatever etc ill need to get as much efficiency as i can
wind spade
you have several options:
- ask someone to do it for you
- work out the math yourself (it's not THAT hard, at least the early recipes aren't)
- use some of the online tools to do the math for you
boreal ember
That's what i was kinda doing.. asking someone to do it for me lol.
sand garnet
most recipes require you to be able to divide by 3
boreal ember
yeah, so can someone do it for me plz? lol 😬
sand garnet
you cant divide by 3?
wind spade
I can do it for you, but I'll just put what you asked for into one of the online tools and share the result
so maybe you can try doing that yourself? 🙂
so that you don't have to ask everytime
boreal ember
Of course I can divide by 3... i just dont want to do something wrong with as big as a project as the current one im doing as i have no experience
sand garnet
why dont you just start small?
boreal ember
wdym start small?
sand garnet
instead of thinking 'im going to calculate everything for a nuclear power setup' just start with a simple iron plate setup
to understand ratios etc
take a node and a miner and calculate how many iron plates you can get from it at most
boreal ember
no
i hate math i love building
i have this to deal with
including underground i made
i just want someone to work out with the resources around me how much of what i'll need for everything
sand garnet
if you hate math, then why not just use greeny's tool, for example?
boreal ember
whos greeny
boreal ember
oh
sand garnet
sand garnet
did you read what he said there in that link
boreal ember
idk what tools are
sand garnet
boreal ember
idk how it works
sand garnet
lets do one together
sand garnet
lets use the tool together so you can learn how to use it properly
boreal ember
no..
sand garnet
...
I'm actually baffled
you really expect people to help you with that attitude
'do everything for me, i refuse to do anything'
boreal ember
no.. thats not what i said
sand garnet
but thats what you're implying
boreal ember
no you're misunderstanding
sand garnet
im willing to teach you how to use the tool, but you refuse.
Im willing to teach you basic math to do this stuff, but you refuse.
you just say 'calculate it for me and tell me what to do'
boreal ember
what i said is i lack knowledge, greeny said hed offer to help me so im accepting help from him i dont wanna learn how to do it bcuz i wont need it.
sand garnet
yeah exactly, you lack knowledge
knowledge which I am willing to help you gain so you dont have to rely on others
sand garnet
he said he'd just use his tool and send you the result
and im telling you 'hey, you can learn how to use the tool he will use as well, so you dont have to rely on others'
boreal ember
but ig he knows what hes doing and stuff like ion wanna confuse anything
sand garnet
he made the tool, but, while I suck at math, even I understand the tool
which means that if I understand it, being the idiot that I am, I'm sure you can understand it too
it's very intuitive
boreal cypress
The tool is very easy to unterstand ^^
boreal ember
do u want to call and screenshare?
sand garnet
theres no need for that, you can just do it by explanation via text
boreal ember
it dm anymore i found someone that i used to play with to hrelp
wind spade
don't throw it on me. I would have done the same as Tom
boreal ember
help
wind spade
show you my tools and teach you how to use them
inner pond
what the fuck
boreal ember
sounds weird
wind spade
I won't do math for you
boreal ember
no...
outer rivet
Pretty much what was said/implied...
boreal ember
ok
wind spade
ok, so once more - you want to help with math, but you don't want to learn how to use the tool that will help you with math?
boreal ember
youll get annoyed with me cuz im slow at picking up things
i only need it done once
boreal cypress
what do you want to have?
muted crypt
Tom offered to help you with using @wind spade's online calculator tool, and you turned it down because you didn't want to, even though it will do exactly what you want as an end result, and then some.
sand garnet
you dont need it done once, it's something you'll repeatedly do for every item you want to create
wind spade
you will need to do the math again and again. In this game, there's never "do it once and be done with it"
muted crypt
The person bought the game for aesthetics
Not for the actual factory building or planning or anything
just "oh it looks pretty"
fierce ruin
Then just build nothing. Game's pretty enough. 😂
boreal ember
:/
muted crypt
The problem is, to get to that end point where you can build solely on aesthetics, you need a functional factory.
Noxii, people are trying to help you, and you're resisting the help that's being offered.
muted crypt
That's the "No take, only throw" dog meme
fierce ruin
Then don't do the things you don't understand until you have sufficient game knowledge to do said things.
boreal cypress
@boreal ember so what endproduct do you want to have calculated? and with which alternate recipe?
boreal ember
what?
muted crypt
i just dont wanna get myself into things i dont know or dont understand
@boreal ember I do recall seeing Tom offering to help walk you through a simpler process to help you understand how to use the tool.
boreal cypress
everything what is new is something you dont know or understand
muted crypt
Nobody - I promise you, NOBODY - is going to give you answers that you could make use of any of the several calculators to find the same answer for. If you don't know how to use them? Sure, we'll help you on that! But you have to be willing to listen and learn. Otherwise, nobody's gonna give a shit if you need help because it's just going to be "spoon feed me answers pls ty" all the time.
boreal ember
i dont know i just wanna know how to make the most out of stuff
ok
well ill go and do it myself.. ty for the help...
sand garnet
good luck
boreal cypress
have fun
muted crypt
point ->
[noxii]
wind spade
well my tool will give you the answers you're looking for @boreal ember
boreal ember
stop pinging me
sand garnet
muted crypt
AND TOM OFFERED TO HELP YOU
wind spade
5 people offered to help
sand garnet
show some respect for people who want to help you Noxii
muted crypt
I got woken up by a DM from Noxii asking for help with math, but when I asked for numbers she said "what numbers?"
like bruh
sand garnet
you're upset because people arent willing to spoonfeed you something over and over ( because this will be a repeated issue in the future )
boreal cypress
Somehow the whole direction of Noxii goes into the trolling
sand garnet
we're trying to teach you how to fish, instead of feeding you fish, so that you dont have to rely on others all the time
boreal cypress
I got woken up by a DM from Noxii asking for help with math, but when I asked for numbers she said "what numbers?"
@muted crypt what are numbers? i only calculate with letters
muted crypt
algebra 2 and up be like
sand garnet
the moment I see letters between my numbers, it's either l33tsp34k and Im in, or its actual math and I'm out, as far out as I can be lol
boreal cypress
The Devil said: "Math is to easy, put letters in it"
muted crypt
I like math, that's why I often chill in this channel
boreal cypress
the math in SF is without any unknown numbers ^^
fierce ruin
Let's just leave them be.
boreal cypress
she?
wind spade
"hey what's 2+2?"
"here's calculator, I can teach you how to use it"
"don't care, need just answer"
boreal ember
stop it plz
muted crypt
@boreal cypress I swear to fucking god if you bring the sexism comments in again I'm calling in a moderator
I already have you blocked for a reason
several of us do
fierce ruin
Yeah just drop it. Keep it to math/meta.
boreal cypress
wtf o.0 i just didnt know that noxii is a she, thats all o.0
muted crypt
30-100 probably more accurate
sand garnet
speed limit here is a solid 40 😛
boreal cypress
kmh or mph?
boreal ember
whats the deal if im a she?
sand garnet
tph/ tilts per hour
boreal cypress
nothing noxii
boreal ember
k
boreal cypress
maroon said you are a she and i didnt know it, thats all :D
wind spade
no big deal
we're just wondering what is it that you actually want. We offered you answers, we offered to teach you how to get them as well, but your attitude was very negative for both offers
boreal ember
im just gonna try do it on my own
boreal cypress
good luck with it :)
boreal ember
iron is like, something you need alot of right?
wind spade
you kinda need a lot of everything 😄
boreal cypress
jeah ^^ but in my setup you need 16x more copper than iron :D
muted crypt
A = your current tab, to list off what it is you want to make
B = where you would put all of your resources you have incoming (otherwise the calculator just uses the entire map by default, I believe)
C = where to add your alternate recipes to be taken into consideration when developing a path for production
D = a selected item
E = set "items/min" for cheapest production or "maximize" for making as many as you can with your incoming resources
F = if "items/min" is chosen, set how many per minute you want
G = an empty spot to add a new item to be produced
H = add a new product
@boreal ember
There's the tutorial you refused to accept from @sand garnet, enjoy
boreal cypress
good job maroon :) could be helpful ^^
muted crypt
Your result appears below this box as you adjust things in your list, in the form of a webbed flow chart.
Example:
boreal ember
thats not what i wanna know
sand garnet
thats what you should know.
wind spade
nice 🙂 I guess I need to make some tutorial for the tools 🙂
sand garnet
im so done lmao
boreal ember
whats the link to that website
muted crypt
@sand garnet wanna take turns beating each other with a 2x4
https://satisfactorytools.com/ @boreal ember
muted crypt
it's only been given four times
boreal ember
i know i forgot it
muted crypt
but you're welcome
glacial hemlock
@wind spade much like:
"Hey looks like you are the first time using this tool, do you want a tutorial: Yes / No
step 1: click here
step 2: click there, ... and so on
wind spade
"click donate to proceed to next step"
glacial hemlock
and an option to restart tutorial anytime
wind spade
jk
glacial hemlock
i know😆
wind spade
but yeah, some interactive tutorial was planned even for the old tools
boreal cypress
"click donate to proceed to next step"
@wind spade you should work for EA xD
wind spade
@boreal cypress unlock visualization for just $4.99 monthly
muted crypt
"Please pay $9.99 USD to unlock the tutorial."
glacial hemlock
gg, in that case will just look for youtube instead
muted crypt
"I sue anyone who makes a youtube tutorial of my guide."
boreal cypress
@wind spade "unlock textfield for just 10€"
wind spade
will you sue me if I make interactive tutorial of your guide
boreal cypress
each time you want to use it
muted crypt
will you sue me if I make interactive tutorial of your guide
@wind spade no lmao
boreal cypress
is that the uranium cave left ?
muted crypt
yes
boreal cypress
ahh, well if this is the easiest way ^^ maybe you can let it look better :D
tiny sentinel
the quarts is way up top.
yeah, I'll probably make it look nice once I get the jetpack unlocked. I'm still working on steel so I haven't even made any versatile frameworks
wind spade
@muted crypt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckcJUBMifSg
glacial hemlock
@tiny sentinel you don't need walls to pull the conveyor lift down, just let them floats
boreal cypress
@wind spade that was fast xD
muted crypt
@wind spade no voiceoverpete narration, disappointing
tiny sentinel
but the walls make it look like they have supports, and I used them to run power up to the miners with the wall outlets